1 00:00:01,762 --> 00:00:03,766 Nate Shutes: Hello and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to 2 00:00:03,806 --> 00:00:06,432 Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it 3 00:00:06,451 --> 00:00:08,134 the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 4 00:00:08,134 --> 00:00:11,067 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and 5 00:00:11,106 --> 00:00:12,570 inspiring others to take the leap. 6 00:00:13,699 --> 00:00:15,666 Jim Bramlett: It's a roller coaster ride that you might 7 00:00:15,766 --> 00:00:16,510 ultimately fail. 8 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:19,068 Nate Shutes: That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 9 00:00:19,782 --> 00:00:20,646 Jim Bramlett: It was very hard. 10 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,047 Nate Shutes: It truly is building a legacy. 11 00:00:23,047 --> 00:00:27,280 The more life you live, the more wisdom you have, because we 12 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:28,565 are where we're supposed to be. 13 00:00:28,565 --> 00:00:30,251 Kind of answering the call. 14 00:00:30,251 --> 00:00:33,209 Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 15 00:00:33,209 --> 00:00:35,134 I'm your host, nate Shoots. 16 00:00:35,134 --> 00:00:38,180 Let's build something together from the ground up. 17 00:00:38,180 --> 00:00:43,424 Hello everybody, and welcome back to the show. 18 00:00:44,024 --> 00:00:48,167 We are in season three, doing what we have been doing for a 19 00:00:48,228 --> 00:00:52,191 couple of years now going deep into people's personal stories 20 00:00:52,231 --> 00:00:55,633 and backgrounds on why they chose to start companies in the 21 00:00:55,673 --> 00:00:59,174 supply chain industry and what keeps them going, what are the 22 00:00:59,234 --> 00:01:02,637 lessons they've learned along the way, and how can we tap into 23 00:01:02,637 --> 00:01:06,099 all of that collective knowledge and not only educate 24 00:01:06,180 --> 00:01:09,248 and inform, but a big part of what we try to do here is also 25 00:01:09,287 --> 00:01:09,909 to inspire. 26 00:01:09,909 --> 00:01:12,823 For entrepreneurs that are deep into their journey or just 27 00:01:12,884 --> 00:01:16,682 beginning, it is a roller coaster ride like no other, and 28 00:01:16,781 --> 00:01:20,274 so hearing the stories of others that are going through that 29 00:01:20,334 --> 00:01:23,162 same experience often offers them a lot of encouragement. 30 00:01:23,162 --> 00:01:27,292 And then I also get outreach pretty regularly from somebody 31 00:01:27,331 --> 00:01:33,191 who says I'm working a job or I have an idea and I'm trying to 32 00:01:33,311 --> 00:01:35,662 come up with a way that I can launch this business, and I've 33 00:01:35,703 --> 00:01:36,766 got a bunch of questions. 34 00:01:36,766 --> 00:01:42,503 And well, entrepreneurship is about asking questions endlessly 35 00:01:42,503 --> 00:01:44,629 and trying to find a good answer to it. 36 00:01:44,629 --> 00:01:48,325 So I often tell them I don't have great answers for you, but 37 00:01:49,227 --> 00:01:53,081 I do have a library of content of folks that have tried it. 38 00:01:53,081 --> 00:01:56,109 Not everybody has succeeded, but they've all said it was 39 00:01:56,189 --> 00:01:58,483 worth it, and so that's what this whole thing is about. 40 00:01:58,563 --> 00:02:01,950 So I hope to offer some encouragement and some 41 00:02:01,990 --> 00:02:05,620 inspiration today by unpacking the story of Jim Bramlett, who 42 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,805 is the CEO of Five String Solutions. 43 00:02:07,805 --> 00:02:12,033 He has a storied career in the logistics industry. 44 00:02:12,033 --> 00:02:15,546 I'm going to have him unpack a little bit of that for us. 45 00:02:15,546 --> 00:02:18,643 But there are times in your life where you meet somebody and 46 00:02:18,643 --> 00:02:23,580 you say, oh my goodness, we have mirror image experiences in 47 00:02:23,580 --> 00:02:26,590 a lot of different places, but also just deep interests in a 48 00:02:26,650 --> 00:02:27,542 lot of the same places. 49 00:02:27,542 --> 00:02:29,948 So we might be talking for two and a half hours today. 50 00:02:29,948 --> 00:02:30,669 We'll see. 51 00:02:30,669 --> 00:02:35,687 But first, jim, thank you so much for coming on the show, and 52 00:02:35,687 --> 00:02:40,383 would you mind just doing a brief introduction of what your 53 00:02:40,443 --> 00:02:41,586 career has looked like so far? 54 00:02:42,308 --> 00:02:43,993 Jim Bramlett: Sure, hey, thanks for having me. 55 00:02:43,993 --> 00:02:45,518 It's fun. 56 00:02:45,518 --> 00:02:49,745 I do consider you a brother from another mother and you and 57 00:02:49,806 --> 00:02:51,427 I have so much in common. 58 00:02:51,427 --> 00:02:56,842 So I'm an old you can see the gray hair if you're watching 59 00:02:56,882 --> 00:03:02,528 this but my logistics transportation career spans a 60 00:03:02,568 --> 00:03:04,751 little over 42 years. 61 00:03:04,751 --> 00:03:08,756 It wasn't exactly the first job I got out of school. 62 00:03:08,756 --> 00:03:15,931 I took a sales job for a consumer goods company, but 63 00:03:16,972 --> 00:03:21,403 after a year it just wasn't my thing and I ended up getting 64 00:03:21,443 --> 00:03:24,971 hired as a management trainee for Roadway Express at a break 65 00:03:25,031 --> 00:03:27,061 bulk in Springfield, missouri. 66 00:03:28,081 --> 00:03:29,084 That's where I went to school. 67 00:03:29,084 --> 00:03:34,393 And, god, I found it so fascinating. 68 00:03:34,393 --> 00:03:35,875 And here's what got me. 69 00:03:35,875 --> 00:03:39,949 I mean, very early on I'd see a pallet of freight and I'd say, 70 00:03:40,150 --> 00:03:44,687 oh wait, a minute, two days ago that was in Atlanta, and two, 71 00:03:44,747 --> 00:03:47,342 you know, two days from now that's going to be in LA. 72 00:03:47,342 --> 00:03:52,391 God, look at all the things that have to happen to make that 73 00:03:52,391 --> 00:03:53,774 transpire. 74 00:03:53,774 --> 00:03:58,588 And that just fascinated me to no end. 75 00:03:59,270 --> 00:04:02,943 And so I began my journey and I've been in it ever since in 76 00:04:03,324 --> 00:04:04,325 many different aspects. 77 00:04:04,325 --> 00:04:08,401 I've studied LTL, and I mean studied. 78 00:04:08,401 --> 00:04:11,287 I've gone through the rules, tariffs, I've gone through lots. 79 00:04:11,287 --> 00:04:18,487 So I kind of always kind of centered myself around LTL and 80 00:04:18,788 --> 00:04:22,761 I've started in my career seven different companies four for 81 00:04:22,821 --> 00:04:24,144 myself, three for others. 82 00:04:24,144 --> 00:04:25,709 I've started a division. 83 00:04:25,709 --> 00:04:30,853 I'm proud to say that I was the first guy to start a 84 00:04:31,536 --> 00:04:44,716 time-definite service in the LTL industry for yellow back in the 85 00:04:44,716 --> 00:04:47,889 day, and until that time it was a one trick pony. 86 00:04:47,889 --> 00:04:50,687 We are only doing oh, you want to get Chicago to Atlanta? 87 00:04:50,687 --> 00:04:51,951 It's three days, that's all you get. 88 00:04:51,951 --> 00:04:57,144 So an expedited time definite service and then the others in 89 00:04:57,163 --> 00:04:58,769 the industry kind of copied that . 90 00:04:58,769 --> 00:05:00,086 So I had a lot of fun doing that. 91 00:05:01,281 --> 00:05:03,987 But I've always been a little bit creative, starting new 92 00:05:04,567 --> 00:05:07,074 companies, new offerings, new divisions. 93 00:05:07,074 --> 00:05:09,702 I just always so. 94 00:05:09,702 --> 00:05:12,170 Don't put me in a factory, in a production line, that's just 95 00:05:12,209 --> 00:05:12,812 not my gig. 96 00:05:12,812 --> 00:05:20,088 But I've had a lot of fun doing that and I'm still a 97 00:05:20,127 --> 00:05:22,413 shareholder in my last company I founded. 98 00:05:22,413 --> 00:05:24,112 I'm no longer active in the day-to-day. 99 00:05:24,112 --> 00:05:28,968 I let the others do that because I'm doing executive 100 00:05:29,007 --> 00:05:32,053 coaching now, running a peer group, and I love that. 101 00:05:32,053 --> 00:05:33,322 I'm a business nerd. 102 00:05:33,322 --> 00:05:37,132 I love learning how businesses work, the challenges they face, 103 00:05:38,139 --> 00:05:43,151 the wins they experience and all of that. 104 00:05:43,151 --> 00:05:45,836 I've a couple books, kind of, about that. 105 00:05:45,836 --> 00:05:50,206 I have a really strong theory about organic business growth 106 00:05:50,709 --> 00:05:52,514 and I'm out promoting that all the time. 107 00:05:52,514 --> 00:05:57,603 I love the journeys of any entrepreneur that's brave enough 108 00:05:57,603 --> 00:05:58,124 to take. 109 00:05:58,124 --> 00:06:02,509 You know, take that step and, uh, cause it's scary. 110 00:06:02,509 --> 00:06:05,814 It was scary for me a lot of times. 111 00:06:05,814 --> 00:06:09,966 Um, so that's a real quick synopsis and I'm going to more 112 00:06:10,007 --> 00:06:10,769 detail if you'd like. 113 00:06:11,451 --> 00:06:13,437 Nate Shutes: Well, I want to unpack it. 114 00:06:13,437 --> 00:06:17,668 In a career that spans four decades, the industry has 115 00:06:17,829 --> 00:06:23,180 undergone massive transformation deregulation in the early 116 00:06:23,281 --> 00:06:26,884 eighties, the rise of the internet and technology in the 117 00:06:26,964 --> 00:06:28,766 early 2000s and late 90s. 118 00:06:28,766 --> 00:06:33,091 Now we're into an AI environment or an artificial 119 00:06:33,132 --> 00:06:34,353 intelligence age. 120 00:06:34,353 --> 00:06:37,716 So I guess I'm curious what hasn't changed? 121 00:06:45,079 --> 00:06:47,771 Jim Bramlett: I'll tell you what hasn't changed, and especially 122 00:06:47,791 --> 00:06:49,098 in the LTL industry, is the complexity. 123 00:06:49,098 --> 00:06:54,245 You know they're making headway , but I argue that they are 124 00:06:54,264 --> 00:06:55,790 still using many parts of the Kamae classification system that 125 00:06:55,790 --> 00:06:58,279 was born from the railroad industry back in 1935. 126 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,699 And I believe in simplicity. 127 00:07:01,699 --> 00:07:03,266 That is not simple. 128 00:07:03,266 --> 00:07:04,824 The tariffs are not simple. 129 00:07:04,824 --> 00:07:07,100 The tariffs are not simple. 130 00:07:07,100 --> 00:07:09,949 The rules are not simple. 131 00:07:09,949 --> 00:07:15,629 The industry makes it pretty complex and there's been very 132 00:07:15,728 --> 00:07:18,374 little change from that. 133 00:07:18,374 --> 00:07:25,434 However you talk about the progression the industry's found 134 00:07:25,434 --> 00:07:25,434 . 135 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:32,029 One reason for 3PL's existence is to make the lives of shippers 136 00:07:32,029 --> 00:07:36,721 simpler easier, save them time and effort, because it's not 137 00:07:36,940 --> 00:07:41,144 easy dealing with an LTL carrier and figuring out what the net 138 00:07:41,324 --> 00:07:44,367 charge is going to be for any particular shipment. 139 00:07:44,709 --> 00:07:51,194 It's not easy finding the right truck to haul your truck load 140 00:07:51,214 --> 00:07:54,036 because of the fragmentation in the industry. 141 00:07:54,036 --> 00:07:58,389 So I believe the third-party logistics industry is predicated 142 00:07:58,389 --> 00:08:00,432 on exactly what I preach. 143 00:08:00,432 --> 00:08:03,569 We're going to make your shippers' lives simpler easier. 144 00:08:03,569 --> 00:08:04,363 We're going to save you time and effort. 145 00:08:04,363 --> 00:08:05,194 We're going to make your shippers lives simpler easier. 146 00:08:05,194 --> 00:08:05,276 We're going to save you time and effort. 147 00:08:05,276 --> 00:08:08,245 We're going to give you a better user experience. 148 00:08:08,245 --> 00:08:13,045 We might even be able to save you money and you can trust us, 149 00:08:13,086 --> 00:08:15,410 and that's all the things I preach all the time. 150 00:08:15,410 --> 00:08:18,540 So I love that kind of progression. 151 00:08:18,540 --> 00:08:24,564 The technology that you mentioned, and now AI is and I'm 152 00:08:24,564 --> 00:08:27,504 not kept up with it all, but I've got to imagine AI is 153 00:08:27,946 --> 00:08:32,327 absolutely impacting how logistics and transportation 154 00:08:32,368 --> 00:08:41,293 companies function and how they can be more efficient Legacy LTL 155 00:08:41,293 --> 00:08:47,556 pricing and classification methodology is probably going to 156 00:08:47,556 --> 00:08:49,937 be around for a while longer, although there have been a 157 00:08:49,998 --> 00:08:51,217 number of attempts at reform. 158 00:08:58,419 --> 00:08:59,441 Nate Shutes: But the beneficiaries of that system are 159 00:08:59,441 --> 00:09:01,523 the LTL carriers themselves, and so it works for them quite 160 00:09:01,562 --> 00:09:01,722 well. 161 00:09:01,722 --> 00:09:05,306 So along that journey, you discovered something that led 162 00:09:05,365 --> 00:09:06,847 you to create FiveString. 163 00:09:06,847 --> 00:09:09,409 So a couple of questions. 164 00:09:09,409 --> 00:09:12,773 What was the moment or the catalyst of this? 165 00:09:12,773 --> 00:09:15,635 Is the idea that I want to pursue, for however long it 166 00:09:15,676 --> 00:09:16,736 takes to find the answer. 167 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:22,600 Jim Bramlett: And why the name FiveString? 168 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,081 All right, great, good question . 169 00:09:26,081 --> 00:09:29,962 So Genesis 5-String started when I started my 170 00:09:30,102 --> 00:09:34,865 internet-centric 3PL it was called FreightProcom back in 171 00:09:34,884 --> 00:09:36,504 1999. 172 00:09:36,504 --> 00:09:40,986 And we got involved, not because of me but somebody who 173 00:09:41,006 --> 00:09:41,506 worked for me. 174 00:09:41,506 --> 00:09:45,628 We got involved in a lot of pool distribution and those kind 175 00:09:45,628 --> 00:09:51,769 of solutions and we were using what is termed as couriers to do 176 00:09:51,769 --> 00:09:54,150 the final mile delivery. 177 00:09:54,750 --> 00:09:57,611 Well, this is a whole part of the industry I was not familiar 178 00:09:57,631 --> 00:10:01,732 with, but one of my people were and I got to learning about it 179 00:10:01,753 --> 00:10:06,193 and I was fascinated by it that these people even existed, 180 00:10:06,214 --> 00:10:09,075 because I grew up in the LTL space with big brands you see 181 00:10:09,115 --> 00:10:11,916 rolling down the highway everywhere across the cities. 182 00:10:11,916 --> 00:10:13,517 You recognize these brands. 183 00:10:13,517 --> 00:10:19,158 Well, that courier industry is very fragmented. 184 00:10:19,158 --> 00:10:20,619 There's thousands of players. 185 00:10:20,619 --> 00:10:23,563 They don't all do the same thing. 186 00:10:23,563 --> 00:10:26,543 I joke that it's an industry a little bit like Baskin Robbins 187 00:10:26,623 --> 00:10:31,899 it's ice cream but there's 31 flavors but it's an industry. 188 00:10:31,899 --> 00:10:35,969 The courier industry is largely comprised of companies who are 189 00:10:36,048 --> 00:10:37,352 using independent contractors. 190 00:10:37,352 --> 00:10:42,885 An independent contractor model has a 30% cost advantage over a 191 00:10:42,885 --> 00:10:48,693 W-2 provider and they're so flexible. 192 00:10:48,693 --> 00:10:49,794 What do you need? 193 00:10:49,794 --> 00:10:50,460 We'll do that. 194 00:10:50,460 --> 00:10:57,993 And so, matter of fact, we were doing distribution to homes for 195 00:10:57,993 --> 00:11:01,345 a home party plan company and the drivers actually had the 196 00:11:01,365 --> 00:11:03,448 garage door codes for certain customers. 197 00:11:03,448 --> 00:11:04,971 They would, you know, deliver every week. 198 00:11:04,971 --> 00:11:06,494 Yeah, and they. 199 00:11:06,494 --> 00:11:07,596 It was amazing. 200 00:11:07,596 --> 00:11:11,663 So anyway, I got, I got really fascinated with that and and 201 00:11:11,763 --> 00:11:16,812 after that journey, you know, we started getting into e-commerce 202 00:11:16,812 --> 00:11:20,403 and of course it doesn't take long to say that's going to be 203 00:11:20,443 --> 00:11:21,827 pretty popular, right, and? 204 00:11:21,827 --> 00:11:26,166 And so I saw the writing on the wall that this e-commerce thing 205 00:11:26,166 --> 00:11:28,591 is going to pick up, and not necessarily small packets, 206 00:11:28,611 --> 00:11:32,028 because there's UPS, fedex and the post office, but on the 207 00:11:32,068 --> 00:11:35,440 large and bulky there wasn't anything equivalent to UPS or 208 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:35,961 FedEx. 209 00:11:35,961 --> 00:11:40,409 And so I said, well, that's going to explode and there's 210 00:11:40,429 --> 00:11:46,187 going to be more need for that final model delivery, not only 211 00:11:46,226 --> 00:11:49,013 the homes but, you know, in case of pool distribution, et cetera 212 00:11:49,013 --> 00:11:49,013 . 213 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:55,123 And I ran into a company called Grand Junction I think, nate, 214 00:11:55,163 --> 00:11:56,427 you've heard of those guys. 215 00:11:56,427 --> 00:12:00,844 They were very successful putting the data connectors in, 216 00:12:00,864 --> 00:12:04,467 data connectors in, so you connect shippers with the final 217 00:12:04,508 --> 00:12:08,393 mile and exchange information, you know, passing orders, 218 00:12:08,732 --> 00:12:19,360 pulling back shipment statuses, pods and the like, and they were 219 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:19,701 doing quite well. 220 00:12:19,701 --> 00:12:20,844 But they got acquired by your neighbor, target, and Target 221 00:12:20,864 --> 00:12:22,947 decided we're not going to make you available to the public. 222 00:12:22,947 --> 00:12:25,974 We only want you for our internal use. 223 00:12:25,974 --> 00:12:29,749 So tell all your customers that they need to find another home. 224 00:12:29,749 --> 00:12:30,672 We'll give them a year. 225 00:12:31,820 --> 00:12:36,188 And so I said, hmm, wonder who else is in that line of work. 226 00:12:36,188 --> 00:12:42,346 And I found out who it was and I talked to them and I thought 227 00:12:42,365 --> 00:12:46,452 there was something they weren't going to be doing that I 228 00:12:46,493 --> 00:12:47,514 thought was important. 229 00:12:47,514 --> 00:12:49,663 And so I said you know what? 230 00:12:49,663 --> 00:12:52,772 I think there's not a lot of competition and there's a need. 231 00:12:52,772 --> 00:13:00,727 So I'm going to try and duplicate what Grand Junction 232 00:13:00,748 --> 00:13:07,115 was doing, In other words, create a data hub that shippers 233 00:13:07,176 --> 00:13:09,682 and carriers, especially fundamental couriers, can 234 00:13:09,743 --> 00:13:15,600 connect to, because that all-important status for the end 235 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,285 consumer is important. 236 00:13:17,285 --> 00:13:19,293 And I tell people now. 237 00:13:19,373 --> 00:13:22,140 I said you know, everybody's pretty accustomed to the 238 00:13:22,221 --> 00:13:26,692 information you get when Amazon makes a delivery, but not 239 00:13:26,740 --> 00:13:28,644 everybody has their own blue trucks running around. 240 00:13:28,644 --> 00:13:35,445 And so in the large and bulky side of the business, unless you 241 00:13:35,445 --> 00:13:40,721 use a 3PL like a JBN or an XPO or something of that nature, if 242 00:13:40,780 --> 00:13:44,649 you want to assemble your own network, it's going to take 243 00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:46,133 multiple carriers, okay. 244 00:13:46,133 --> 00:13:49,188 So how do you get this delivery information? 245 00:13:49,188 --> 00:13:50,605 How do you push orders to them? 246 00:13:50,605 --> 00:13:53,143 How do you get quotes back, whatever you need to do. 247 00:13:53,143 --> 00:13:58,129 From a data standpoint, that's a pretty hard problem to solve. 248 00:13:58,129 --> 00:14:01,288 And so I set about solving that . 249 00:14:01,780 --> 00:14:02,846 But I didn't want to be a broker . 250 00:14:02,846 --> 00:14:08,942 I'd been there and done that and I thought being a Grand 251 00:14:08,962 --> 00:14:12,551 Junction being a SaaS provider with the technology connectors. 252 00:14:12,551 --> 00:14:15,605 But I want to build a referral network because people don't 253 00:14:15,745 --> 00:14:17,811 know who's in the final mile. 254 00:14:17,811 --> 00:14:20,001 They don't know that flavor of ice cream. 255 00:14:20,001 --> 00:14:23,927 Oh, I want to deliver fitness equipment what kind of carriers 256 00:14:23,969 --> 00:14:24,448 do I need? 257 00:14:24,448 --> 00:14:29,350 Or I want to deliver meal kits what do I need for that? 258 00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:35,207 And so we built a referral network so that when we engaged 259 00:14:35,328 --> 00:14:38,352 a shipper, I could introduce them. 260 00:14:38,352 --> 00:14:40,216 But they cut the deal themselves. 261 00:14:40,216 --> 00:14:42,908 We were just a technology enabler. 262 00:14:42,908 --> 00:14:50,431 So that's what we set out to do and we're still doing it. 263 00:14:50,431 --> 00:14:53,568 Only I'm not doing it on a day-to-day basis. 264 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,205 Nate Shutes: What's interesting to me about that is when you 265 00:14:57,245 --> 00:15:01,370 have deep domain expertise and you understand all of the 266 00:15:01,792 --> 00:15:04,155 perspectives and roles in the market. 267 00:15:04,561 --> 00:15:06,649 You've got carriers in the middle mile. 268 00:15:06,860 --> 00:15:10,703 You have carriers in the final mile of a whole bunch of 269 00:15:10,724 --> 00:15:13,639 different varieties, from couriers on up to box trucks 270 00:15:14,683 --> 00:15:17,004 doing white glove delivery, and then you have truckload 271 00:15:17,044 --> 00:15:20,549 providers, you have final mile nodes. 272 00:15:20,549 --> 00:15:24,168 And then you have the shipper side of things, where, from 273 00:15:24,269 --> 00:15:27,384 enterprise on down to small business, they're not in the 274 00:15:27,443 --> 00:15:30,971 logistics business, they are in the product business, and this 275 00:15:31,272 --> 00:15:36,095 is a necessary evil in some ways , and they can either let that 276 00:15:36,134 --> 00:15:38,441 be a liability or they can turn it into some kind of a 277 00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:39,461 competitive advantage. 278 00:15:39,461 --> 00:15:43,624 And so, after the decades of experience that you had at that 279 00:15:43,684 --> 00:15:48,607 point to be able to articulate a narrow gap that wasn't being 280 00:15:48,668 --> 00:15:52,711 served in the industry, that kind of intuition and deep 281 00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:57,835 insight that says, hey, I know somebody's building this product 282 00:15:57,835 --> 00:16:02,745 , but I think they're missing another layer, that level of 283 00:16:02,784 --> 00:16:06,014 strategic identification of a market need. 284 00:16:06,014 --> 00:16:09,022 Where did that come from for you? 285 00:16:09,022 --> 00:16:10,605 Is that something that are you? 286 00:16:10,605 --> 00:16:15,203 Constantly your back brain is thinking about ltl and you can't 287 00:16:15,203 --> 00:16:15,784 turn it off. 288 00:16:15,784 --> 00:16:16,967 Or did you read a book? 289 00:16:16,967 --> 00:16:19,919 Or like, where does that curiosity to keep looking for 290 00:16:19,980 --> 00:16:20,259 that. 291 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,642 Jim Bramlett: Um slice of an insight come from well, one, one 292 00:16:24,642 --> 00:16:30,144 of the things and like I said in my intro, I have studied. 293 00:16:30,144 --> 00:16:32,712 I just wasn't in LTL. 294 00:16:32,712 --> 00:16:38,471 I studied it deeply and you know, the thing that amazed me 295 00:16:39,113 --> 00:16:45,255 was and it still does LTL carriers do not like anything 296 00:16:45,296 --> 00:16:48,345 that's not industrial shipments, meaning dock-to-dock. 297 00:16:48,345 --> 00:16:51,273 They love that, they price that , that's what they want. 298 00:16:51,533 --> 00:16:52,416 Nate Shutes: Palletized yep. 299 00:16:52,947 --> 00:16:55,535 Jim Bramlett: But if it's a shipment to a residence, if it's 300 00:16:55,535 --> 00:16:59,508 a shipment to a self-storage unit, a golf course, you know a 301 00:17:00,028 --> 00:17:03,797 construction site, or requires an appointment, they don't like 302 00:17:03,836 --> 00:17:03,876 it. 303 00:17:03,876 --> 00:17:05,185 So what do they do? 304 00:17:05,185 --> 00:17:07,530 They have these assessorial charges, and I saw the 305 00:17:07,611 --> 00:17:11,705 assessorial charges getting more and more punitive. 306 00:17:11,705 --> 00:17:17,175 Okay, well, you don't like it, but there is a factor segment of 307 00:17:17,175 --> 00:17:19,119 the transportation industry does like it. 308 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:24,433 You know, I used to joke when I started meeting these final 309 00:17:24,453 --> 00:17:27,931 mile carriers, the couriers hey, do you know about limited 310 00:17:28,050 --> 00:17:28,393 access? 311 00:17:28,393 --> 00:17:31,335 And they go what are you talking about? 312 00:17:31,335 --> 00:17:35,194 Well, do you charge extra to deliver to the self-storage unit 313 00:17:35,194 --> 00:17:35,194 ? 314 00:17:35,194 --> 00:17:36,925 Do you charge extra to deliver to a house? 315 00:17:36,925 --> 00:17:40,387 Do you charge extra for the lift gate that's on your box 316 00:17:40,407 --> 00:17:40,667 truck? 317 00:17:40,667 --> 00:17:44,330 No, no, no To them. 318 00:17:44,330 --> 00:17:56,218 It's a delivery which I think it's another opportunity for 319 00:17:56,258 --> 00:18:02,862 customers to use a different kind of service that may be a 320 00:18:02,902 --> 00:18:04,042 little bit better on the delivery. 321 00:18:04,806 --> 00:18:06,652 But you just hit the nail on the head. 322 00:18:06,652 --> 00:18:07,634 What about the middle mile? 323 00:18:07,634 --> 00:18:08,750 See, they're just final mile. 324 00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:14,114 And so how you integrate that middle mile to the final mile? 325 00:18:14,114 --> 00:18:16,859 Probably best served by a 3PL. 326 00:18:16,859 --> 00:18:22,375 That's what they do, and I've said this all along. 327 00:18:22,375 --> 00:18:27,671 If all you do is resell another service, you're just a pure 328 00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:31,796 transactional broker and you're just offering LTL resell 329 00:18:31,856 --> 00:18:32,416 services. 330 00:18:32,416 --> 00:18:35,000 How much value is there really there? 331 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,285 Tl resell services how much value is there really there? 332 00:18:38,285 --> 00:18:41,953 But when you can do something like pool distribution, you're 333 00:18:41,973 --> 00:18:43,182 managing the middle mile and you're putting it coordinating 334 00:18:43,201 --> 00:18:43,605 with the final mile. 335 00:18:43,605 --> 00:18:46,471 Oh, by the way, I've got a network of people who can do 336 00:18:46,511 --> 00:18:48,597 your assembly of your fitness equipment. 337 00:18:48,597 --> 00:18:52,535 That's where real value comes to play. 338 00:18:52,535 --> 00:18:57,398 And so, yeah, I'm always thinking what is it that makes 339 00:18:57,519 --> 00:19:01,789 sense, that adds more value to the equation or takes costs out 340 00:19:01,930 --> 00:19:05,699 of the equation, because that's got to be popular? 341 00:19:06,825 --> 00:19:10,532 Nate Shutes: And again, that is a different way of coming at a 342 00:19:10,593 --> 00:19:14,829 problem, and I think that's part of why our conversations that 343 00:19:14,971 --> 00:19:17,267 usually go well beyond their scheduled time. 344 00:19:17,267 --> 00:19:21,135 If we put 30 minutes on the calendar, we're talking for an 345 00:19:21,236 --> 00:19:21,396 hour. 346 00:19:21,396 --> 00:19:23,029 We put an hour, we talk for three. 347 00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:25,720 It's just the way of things, because I, because we're both 348 00:19:25,779 --> 00:19:30,329 drawn to the similar parts of the market and, um, I, I agree, 349 00:19:30,349 --> 00:19:34,035 we are, you are a brother from another mother, for me as well. 350 00:19:34,434 --> 00:19:38,681 So you have this professional career portion of you. 351 00:19:38,681 --> 00:19:42,252 You're an executive, you learn the ropes and then you're 352 00:19:42,313 --> 00:19:43,174 responsible for things. 353 00:19:43,174 --> 00:19:46,090 Then you have a couple of other chapters where you're starting 354 00:19:46,151 --> 00:19:50,846 businesses, you're exiting businesses and after all that 355 00:19:50,905 --> 00:19:54,073 time now you still are an owner, but you have somebody else 356 00:19:54,433 --> 00:19:55,776 running five string. 357 00:19:55,776 --> 00:19:57,807 What is that process? 358 00:19:57,807 --> 00:19:59,993 What has it been like for you? 359 00:19:59,993 --> 00:20:03,545 Not not technically or not financially, and reviewing 360 00:20:03,644 --> 00:20:07,414 dashboards remotely and all that , but what has it meant for you 361 00:20:07,535 --> 00:20:12,788 to have to let go of the vision that you maybe started it with? 362 00:20:12,788 --> 00:20:15,895 And the next generation is coming in and they share a lot 363 00:20:15,916 --> 00:20:19,593 of it, I'm sure, but they're also passionate and they see a 364 00:20:19,633 --> 00:20:20,936 couple of things that maybe you don't. 365 00:20:20,936 --> 00:20:25,295 So how do you transition from active and in the business to 366 00:20:25,596 --> 00:20:26,397 more of a chairman role. 367 00:20:28,125 --> 00:20:28,872 Jim Bramlett: Yeah, great question. 368 00:20:28,872 --> 00:20:33,372 I think you know, I think every entrepreneur faces this, 369 00:20:33,772 --> 00:20:36,157 because I believe every entrepreneur has their vision. 370 00:20:36,157 --> 00:20:39,109 This is how it should be, this is how it should work. 371 00:20:39,109 --> 00:20:45,214 But as you grow you have to cede authority to some other 372 00:20:45,255 --> 00:20:49,729 folks who might think slightly differently, and that becomes 373 00:20:49,869 --> 00:20:50,251 hard. 374 00:20:50,251 --> 00:20:55,998 And so I joke that I like being married. 375 00:20:56,664 --> 00:21:02,958 And the story is my wife retired about a year after I started 376 00:21:03,018 --> 00:21:07,836 FiveStream and when she retired she started poking at me. 377 00:21:07,836 --> 00:21:11,134 Remember all those things we're going to go do in our golden 378 00:21:11,173 --> 00:21:11,535 years? 379 00:21:11,535 --> 00:21:15,452 You know, and, like I said, I've been married almost 48 380 00:21:15,472 --> 00:21:16,395 years now, so I like it. 381 00:21:16,395 --> 00:21:21,335 And to appease her, because I'm in the grind man, you know, you 382 00:21:21,335 --> 00:21:25,352 know how it is, and everybody who's out there today probably 383 00:21:25,392 --> 00:21:27,924 knows how it is in the logistics transportation space, you're 384 00:21:27,945 --> 00:21:30,074 working, working, working, working. 385 00:21:30,074 --> 00:21:38,019 And I finally decided that yeah , I want to take a different 386 00:21:38,058 --> 00:21:38,398 course. 387 00:21:38,398 --> 00:21:43,076 And so I found people to take it over and yet have me become 388 00:21:43,115 --> 00:21:44,198 more of an advisor. 389 00:21:44,198 --> 00:21:48,115 So I wasn't totally out of it, but I had the seed to control. 390 00:21:48,115 --> 00:21:51,992 They make the decisions now, and that was hard because I was 391 00:21:52,012 --> 00:21:56,089 the one making all the decisions until that time, and that's a 392 00:21:56,431 --> 00:22:01,094 different position to be in but I've transitioned. 393 00:22:01,424 --> 00:22:07,397 But you know what's funny, nate, is when I gave that up and I 394 00:22:07,458 --> 00:22:09,673 say, well, I kind of tried retirement but I flunked. 395 00:22:09,673 --> 00:22:14,988 I was three months away from the day-to-day and I'm playing 396 00:22:15,490 --> 00:22:20,190 some golf and tennis and maybe a little pickleball and maybe a 397 00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:23,236 little banjo, but there's no purpose in that. 398 00:22:23,236 --> 00:22:26,047 And so I'm a guy who's got to have some purpose. 399 00:22:26,047 --> 00:22:30,198 And so I got contacted by Vistage, which is the world's 400 00:22:31,501 --> 00:22:35,990 leading, largest business leader peer group organization, and 401 00:22:36,010 --> 00:22:38,836 they wanted to have another group formed in Kansas City and 402 00:22:38,855 --> 00:22:40,618 thought I'd be a good candidate to lead that. 403 00:22:40,618 --> 00:22:42,632 I saw a purpose there. 404 00:22:42,632 --> 00:22:47,529 And now that's what I'm doing and I love it because I'm still 405 00:22:47,951 --> 00:22:51,958 involved in the business world, not necessarily totally 406 00:22:51,998 --> 00:22:53,180 transportation, logistics. 407 00:22:53,180 --> 00:22:56,730 I'm getting to learn so much from all other types of leaders 408 00:22:57,571 --> 00:23:01,258 and what they face and challenge all the time, so I really, 409 00:23:01,278 --> 00:23:02,160 really enjoy that. 410 00:23:23,625 --> 00:23:25,027 Is business business at the end of the day? 411 00:23:25,027 --> 00:23:25,827 Does it not matter? 412 00:23:25,827 --> 00:23:28,569 Or is having unique industry insight an advantage? 413 00:23:28,569 --> 00:23:31,313 How do you think about what's universal and what's not? 414 00:23:31,313 --> 00:23:33,756 I had a five-star general. 415 00:23:33,756 --> 00:23:37,900 Come talk to my leadership group and I said, okay, tell me 416 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,281 the difference between leading in the military versus leading 417 00:23:40,362 --> 00:23:45,631 in public or private company, and he says leadership of people 418 00:23:45,631 --> 00:23:47,916 is all the same and that's what we're really doing. 419 00:23:47,916 --> 00:23:51,428 We're leading people and they handle the processes and they 420 00:23:51,709 --> 00:23:52,970 handle the processes. 421 00:23:52,970 --> 00:23:57,775 But when you can inspire people and get them all in the same 422 00:23:58,154 --> 00:24:02,640 line to do the same thing for a common purpose, that's what 423 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,101 really leadership is all about. 424 00:24:04,101 --> 00:24:10,336 Yeah, and as I coach these leaders, I say look, I got an 425 00:24:10,375 --> 00:24:12,058 aerospace manufacturing leader. 426 00:24:12,058 --> 00:24:16,169 I don't know anything about aerospace manufacturing, I don't 427 00:24:16,169 --> 00:24:21,236 need to, but he faces some of the same challenges, be it 428 00:24:21,395 --> 00:24:23,739 marketing, be it gosh. 429 00:24:23,739 --> 00:24:24,599 How do I think about AI? 430 00:24:43,428 --> 00:24:44,230 Nate Shutes: How do I think about culture? 431 00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:44,990 How do I inspire my team? 432 00:24:44,990 --> 00:24:45,491 All of that? 433 00:24:45,491 --> 00:24:46,233 How do I retain my key employees? 434 00:24:46,233 --> 00:24:48,597 It's so much of that that is very common for any leader. 435 00:24:48,597 --> 00:24:50,201 When you look back on your own career. 436 00:24:50,201 --> 00:24:51,503 Do you wish you had a group like that yourself? 437 00:24:51,503 --> 00:24:51,884 Oh my God. 438 00:24:55,984 --> 00:24:56,808 Jim Bramlett: Did you have mentors that were there and 439 00:24:56,828 --> 00:24:57,813 advisors that were on the sidelines to help you? 440 00:24:57,813 --> 00:24:58,536 No, I didn't, and I regret that . 441 00:24:58,536 --> 00:25:03,031 When I started FreightProcom in 1999, I joke that my leadership 442 00:25:03,031 --> 00:25:07,232 experience to that date was I was a senior class president in 443 00:25:07,272 --> 00:25:09,853 my high school it had 12 students in it. 444 00:25:09,853 --> 00:25:11,931 That's not leadership. 445 00:25:11,931 --> 00:25:17,449 So I come into this and I'm the visionary and I now have a 446 00:25:17,489 --> 00:25:19,194 board of directors because we raised some capital. 447 00:25:19,194 --> 00:25:23,396 The capital sources were the board. 448 00:25:23,396 --> 00:25:24,830 Now I got to report to them. 449 00:25:24,830 --> 00:25:29,893 I've never done that before and I've got 30 people. 450 00:25:29,893 --> 00:25:34,719 Never led that before and I made a ton of mistakes. 451 00:25:34,719 --> 00:25:38,539 Never led that before and I made a ton of mistakes. 452 00:25:43,145 --> 00:25:44,451 Nate Shutes: You know I learned very quickly that you don't take 453 00:25:44,451 --> 00:25:45,978 all your challenges and issues to the board because they'll 454 00:25:45,998 --> 00:25:47,061 just say we don't have the right guy in the chair. 455 00:25:47,082 --> 00:25:47,605 Jim Bramlett: You're there to solve them. 456 00:25:47,605 --> 00:25:49,109 They're there to listen and ask good questions. 457 00:25:49,109 --> 00:25:55,965 It became very lonely and I made a ton of mistakes and I 458 00:25:56,027 --> 00:26:00,477 look back today and go man, I wish I had peers to lean on. 459 00:26:00,477 --> 00:26:04,070 You know, and you know, the last person who wanted to hear 460 00:26:04,111 --> 00:26:06,958 about my struggles and trials was my wife. 461 00:26:06,958 --> 00:26:11,448 She doesn't want to hear that, and there are things you can't 462 00:26:11,508 --> 00:26:12,770 share with your team. 463 00:26:12,770 --> 00:26:17,378 You know, even though you might call them family and team, 464 00:26:18,506 --> 00:26:25,097 they've got their agenda and I've got mine, and so, yeah, I 465 00:26:25,117 --> 00:26:25,940 reflect back and go. 466 00:26:27,166 --> 00:26:30,535 It's always better, and that's why I encourage any leader to be 467 00:26:30,535 --> 00:26:32,527 part of another group, something bigger. 468 00:26:32,527 --> 00:26:36,576 You got to vent and you've got to constantly be learning. 469 00:26:36,576 --> 00:26:40,795 I believe leaders are lifetime learners and they're curious. 470 00:26:40,795 --> 00:26:45,848 And well, you're going to learn a lot from other people, and 471 00:26:45,929 --> 00:26:49,439 especially if they're in a similar role not industry, but 472 00:26:50,101 --> 00:26:53,088 industry too but if they're in another role, you're going to 473 00:26:53,148 --> 00:26:53,750 learn a lot. 474 00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:58,449 So attach yourself to others, be it mentors, be it coaches, be 475 00:26:58,449 --> 00:27:04,538 it peer groups, mastermind group, I don't care what you 476 00:27:04,598 --> 00:27:07,031 call it but when you're attached to other people, it's going to 477 00:27:07,071 --> 00:27:09,008 make you a better person going to make you a better leader. 478 00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:11,986 Nate Shutes: So eventually you probably could have written a 479 00:27:12,026 --> 00:27:15,596 book on all the things what not to do Be too big. 480 00:27:15,596 --> 00:27:19,011 And then one day you decided that you did want to write a 481 00:27:19,053 --> 00:27:19,232 book. 482 00:27:19,232 --> 00:27:21,929 I know you're the author of the book called Stop the Hassle and 483 00:27:21,929 --> 00:27:23,653 I think you're working on another book now. 484 00:27:23,653 --> 00:27:27,731 What is behind that, is it? 485 00:27:27,731 --> 00:27:32,789 I want to pass on the knowledge that I've gleaned as part of 486 00:27:32,869 --> 00:27:36,258 the next chapter of finding that purpose that you mentioned. 487 00:27:36,904 --> 00:27:37,666 Jim Bramlett: Yeah. 488 00:27:37,666 --> 00:27:42,548 So one thing I tell all my leaders in my peer group if 489 00:27:42,567 --> 00:27:44,612 you're going to learn, you got to be vulnerable. 490 00:27:44,612 --> 00:27:49,509 So I'm going to be vulnerable with you and your audience, and 491 00:27:49,548 --> 00:27:50,830 I profess this in my book. 492 00:27:50,830 --> 00:28:02,246 My very first company I started I was a senior in college and I 493 00:28:02,246 --> 00:28:04,852 went to college in Springfield, missouri, and they had this. 494 00:28:04,852 --> 00:28:06,817 They have this restaurant that sold cashew chicken. 495 00:28:06,817 --> 00:28:09,704 I'd say it's a Chinese dish, but it really isn't. 496 00:28:09,704 --> 00:28:13,721 It's just little fried chicken nuggets with an oyster gravy and 497 00:28:13,721 --> 00:28:16,232 some cashews and onions on it and over rice. 498 00:28:16,232 --> 00:28:18,388 But very popular. 499 00:28:18,388 --> 00:28:19,712 I mean very popular. 500 00:28:19,712 --> 00:28:21,136 It was probably one every mile you went. 501 00:28:21,136 --> 00:28:24,492 Well, I grew up 100 miles down the road in a little town called 502 00:28:24,492 --> 00:28:24,854 Rolla. 503 00:28:24,854 --> 00:28:25,925 We didn't have that there. 504 00:28:25,925 --> 00:28:29,815 So my roommate and I decided well, we're going to start this 505 00:28:29,875 --> 00:28:33,328 restaurant in Rolla, we'll just hire a manager and we'll just 506 00:28:33,368 --> 00:28:34,170 collect the checks. 507 00:28:34,170 --> 00:28:38,498 And you can imagine how it ended. 508 00:28:38,498 --> 00:28:39,579 And it did end that way. 509 00:28:39,579 --> 00:28:46,457 And then five years later I say , hey, I'm in the trucking 510 00:28:46,517 --> 00:28:48,890 industry, I know trucking, I'm going to start a trucking 511 00:28:48,930 --> 00:28:51,711 company and that didn't end well . 512 00:28:51,711 --> 00:28:57,153 And so I tell people today just because you like to cook 513 00:28:59,278 --> 00:29:02,428 doesn't mean you should start a restaurant Just because you like 514 00:29:02,428 --> 00:29:06,778 working with grass and flowers, don't start a landscaping 515 00:29:06,817 --> 00:29:07,178 company. 516 00:29:07,178 --> 00:29:11,292 So what happened was later in my career, after I learned these 517 00:29:11,292 --> 00:29:15,390 really hard and expensive lessons, I got asked to speak at 518 00:29:15,390 --> 00:29:17,016 a logistics conference. 519 00:29:17,016 --> 00:29:19,009 I said what would you like me to talk on? 520 00:29:19,009 --> 00:29:20,773 Don't care. 521 00:29:20,773 --> 00:29:26,028 And so I thought, okay, I want to reflect and do something 522 00:29:26,067 --> 00:29:26,709 creative. 523 00:29:26,709 --> 00:29:31,738 And so I started reflecting on my career and what's happening 524 00:29:32,845 --> 00:29:35,468 in the industry, with 3PLs coming out and all this. 525 00:29:35,468 --> 00:29:42,336 And that was the genesis of me discovering the real secret to 526 00:29:44,739 --> 00:29:45,941 organic growth. 527 00:29:45,941 --> 00:29:51,346 And what I did? 528 00:29:51,346 --> 00:29:52,849 I studied Amazon and Netflix and Uber and I came up with the 529 00:29:52,890 --> 00:29:57,566 common formula that they use, and my first book was called the 530 00:29:57,566 --> 00:30:00,846 Unconventional Thinking of Dominant Companies, and it's 531 00:30:00,885 --> 00:30:06,066 100% about those monsters that shot to the top, beat their 532 00:30:06,125 --> 00:30:10,039 competition very quickly became unicorns and a few local Kansas 533 00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:13,128 City companies that I think do the same thing, and they all use 534 00:30:13,128 --> 00:30:13,751 this formula. 535 00:30:13,751 --> 00:30:14,509 They don't talk about it. 536 00:30:14,509 --> 00:30:15,532 I don't even know if they're really aware of it, but the same 537 00:30:15,532 --> 00:30:16,063 thing, and they all use this formula. 538 00:30:16,063 --> 00:30:16,342 They don't talk about it. 539 00:30:16,342 --> 00:30:17,892 I don't even know if they're really aware of it, but they do 540 00:30:17,952 --> 00:30:18,153 this. 541 00:30:18,153 --> 00:30:23,067 And so in the second book Stop the Hassle I decided to write 542 00:30:23,087 --> 00:30:27,556 that book about what every company should be doing, both 543 00:30:27,635 --> 00:30:32,651 from a what I call product point of view and a cultural point of 544 00:30:32,651 --> 00:30:34,534 view, and real quickly. 545 00:30:34,534 --> 00:30:35,055 It's this. 546 00:30:35,596 --> 00:30:39,730 I believe you and I, and everybody listening to this, are 547 00:30:39,730 --> 00:30:40,270 buyers. 548 00:30:40,270 --> 00:30:43,846 Now, we may not be professional buyers, but we buy things every 549 00:30:43,846 --> 00:30:44,145 day. 550 00:30:44,145 --> 00:30:49,055 We make a buying decision and I believe there's a formula, a 551 00:30:49,096 --> 00:30:52,885 psychology that we use, and it involves we're looking for 552 00:30:52,965 --> 00:30:57,529 convenience, we want to save time, effort, we want it simple 553 00:30:57,569 --> 00:30:58,029 and easy. 554 00:30:58,029 --> 00:31:03,233 When I pull off the interstate for gas, it's always 319.9 at 555 00:31:03,294 --> 00:31:05,576 every station at that interchange. 556 00:31:05,576 --> 00:31:09,798 Well, am I going to go left across the interchange through a 557 00:31:09,798 --> 00:31:12,220 couple lights to the gas station on the left or am I 558 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,102 going to stay on the right-hand side so I can get back? 559 00:31:14,102 --> 00:31:16,442 I'm going to do that because it saves me time and effort. 560 00:31:16,442 --> 00:31:21,550 That's a natural thing tendency we have. 561 00:31:21,550 --> 00:31:25,218 I want simple, I want easy, I don't want a more complex life. 562 00:31:25,218 --> 00:31:30,071 So when we're out looking, we want that convenience. 563 00:31:30,071 --> 00:31:32,616 We want a competitive price. 564 00:31:32,616 --> 00:31:35,348 We don't necessarily want lowest price all the time, but 565 00:31:35,388 --> 00:31:36,211 we're trying to save money. 566 00:31:36,211 --> 00:31:40,730 But what we really want is transparency, and this goes back 567 00:31:40,730 --> 00:31:41,311 to LTL. 568 00:31:41,311 --> 00:31:45,448 I want to know what it's going to cost before I make that 569 00:31:45,488 --> 00:31:46,450 purchase decision. 570 00:31:46,450 --> 00:31:49,936 That's why I like TMSs now, because I can tell exactly what 571 00:31:50,038 --> 00:31:50,665 my cost should be. 572 00:31:50,665 --> 00:31:52,130 But we like that transparency. 573 00:31:52,130 --> 00:31:54,476 That's why we don't like working with lawyers. 574 00:31:54,476 --> 00:31:58,807 We know it's $300 an hour but we never know how many hours the 575 00:31:58,807 --> 00:32:01,630 airlines oh what $200 charge. 576 00:32:01,630 --> 00:32:02,290 I didn't know. 577 00:32:02,290 --> 00:32:03,511 Oh, it's in the fine print. 578 00:32:03,511 --> 00:32:12,097 I was in Vegas last weekend and my $125 room a night had a $49 579 00:32:16,401 --> 00:32:17,041 resort fee. 580 00:32:17,041 --> 00:32:18,242 What's that? 581 00:32:18,242 --> 00:32:20,186 Oh, you didn't. 582 00:32:20,186 --> 00:32:21,512 You know, that's in the fine print. 583 00:32:21,512 --> 00:32:23,050 I don't like fine print. 584 00:32:23,050 --> 00:32:24,464 Okay, so that transparency. 585 00:32:24,665 --> 00:32:28,779 Third, we like a great user experience, both in the buying 586 00:32:28,819 --> 00:32:30,305 process and the product itself. 587 00:32:30,305 --> 00:32:33,575 I want to be treated like I'm their only customer. 588 00:32:33,575 --> 00:32:35,942 If I have questions, I want them answered. 589 00:32:35,942 --> 00:32:38,028 I really don't want to talk to a bot. 590 00:32:38,028 --> 00:32:40,674 I want to talk to a human, because who knows where my 591 00:32:40,734 --> 00:32:43,765 questions are going to go and I've had too much frustration 592 00:32:43,884 --> 00:32:45,489 with bots taking me time and effort. 593 00:32:45,489 --> 00:32:50,719 But the product if it's a merchandise, I want durability, 594 00:32:50,805 --> 00:32:52,769 I want style, I want efficiency. 595 00:32:52,769 --> 00:32:57,759 If I'm dealing with a professional, you know, I want 596 00:33:00,288 --> 00:33:01,991 courteousness, professionalism. 597 00:33:01,991 --> 00:33:04,596 I want, you know, I like uniforms. 598 00:33:04,596 --> 00:33:07,467 If I'm going into a retail store, I like bright lights, 599 00:33:07,547 --> 00:33:09,171 clean, organized. 600 00:33:09,171 --> 00:33:11,675 That all creates great user experience. 601 00:33:11,715 --> 00:33:12,798 And then fourth is trust. 602 00:33:12,798 --> 00:33:17,834 When we make a buying decision, we buyers have in our mind what 603 00:33:17,834 --> 00:33:19,178 it is we're going to get. 604 00:33:19,178 --> 00:33:21,612 That's our experience, especially true if there's a 605 00:33:21,672 --> 00:33:26,371 brand promise, like when it absolutely positively has to be 606 00:33:26,411 --> 00:33:27,011 there overnight. 607 00:33:27,011 --> 00:33:28,234 Well, guess what? 608 00:33:28,234 --> 00:33:30,446 I expect it to be there overnight. 609 00:33:30,446 --> 00:33:33,836 That's your brand promise, but we have this expectation and we 610 00:33:33,875 --> 00:33:34,636 don't get it. 611 00:33:34,636 --> 00:33:37,048 Now I can't trust them ever again. 612 00:33:37,048 --> 00:33:41,377 Okay, and I'm sure, in logistics, when somebody's late 613 00:33:41,417 --> 00:33:44,671 with a shipment or damages a shipment, how do I trust them 614 00:33:44,730 --> 00:33:45,192 going forward? 615 00:33:45,192 --> 00:33:46,073 Do they have a guarantee? 616 00:33:46,073 --> 00:33:46,994 What kind of guarantee? 617 00:33:46,994 --> 00:33:48,278 Are there warranties? 618 00:33:48,278 --> 00:33:49,359 Are there free returns? 619 00:33:49,359 --> 00:33:52,932 Are there testimonials where my peers are telling me, yeah, I 620 00:33:52,972 --> 00:33:54,477 had a great experience, bad experience? 621 00:33:54,477 --> 00:33:58,329 So bottom line is, when you can do all four of those 622 00:33:58,849 --> 00:34:04,538 convenience, transparent, competitive pricing, great 623 00:34:04,698 --> 00:34:08,507 buying and user experience and trust I as a buyer don't have 624 00:34:08,547 --> 00:34:10,594 any excuses not to buy from you. 625 00:34:11,306 --> 00:34:15,112 But the problem is most companies have some sort of 626 00:34:15,172 --> 00:34:19,827 trade-off, a conscious trade-off , and I use Walmart Walmart, you 627 00:34:19,827 --> 00:34:23,628 know, everyday low prices, rollback America, but I hope you 628 00:34:23,628 --> 00:34:24,632 like checking yourself out. 629 00:34:24,632 --> 00:34:27,152 I don't find that a particularly appealing 630 00:34:27,313 --> 00:34:27,875 experience. 631 00:34:27,875 --> 00:34:33,775 They're not maybe as well lit, not as well organized as, say, a 632 00:34:33,775 --> 00:34:37,353 Target, right, I think there's just a little different user 633 00:34:37,434 --> 00:34:37,855 experience. 634 00:34:37,855 --> 00:34:42,407 Dollar stores pretty cheap stuff, but oh my God, there 635 00:34:42,628 --> 00:34:45,432 might be one person working there and they don't have 636 00:34:45,492 --> 00:34:46,094 storerooms. 637 00:34:46,094 --> 00:34:48,940 It's all cluttery, it's a nightmare. 638 00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:49,887 Jiffy Lube. 639 00:34:49,887 --> 00:34:53,655 Their tradeoff is we're going to change our oil in 20 minutes, 640 00:34:53,655 --> 00:34:54,838 but it's going to come at a price. 641 00:34:54,838 --> 00:34:58,664 I can do it at Walmart for half the price twice the time, and 642 00:34:58,724 --> 00:35:02,010 so I believe they have these conscious tradeoffs. 643 00:35:02,030 --> 00:35:06,695 When you do that, you now have to appeal to somebody whose 644 00:35:06,835 --> 00:35:09,920 personal value system matches what you offer. 645 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,813 Okay, now I can't tell you what yours is, nate, but my personal 646 00:35:14,813 --> 00:35:16,717 value system is time. 647 00:35:16,717 --> 00:35:21,797 I will pay a premium if you save me time. 648 00:35:21,797 --> 00:35:25,193 I believe time is our most precious commodity, not money. 649 00:35:25,193 --> 00:35:28,650 I can go to my financial planner and my banking accounts, 650 00:35:28,650 --> 00:35:29,713 tell you how much money I have. 651 00:35:29,713 --> 00:35:35,378 I can't tell you how much time I've got, so I believe time is 652 00:35:35,458 --> 00:35:36,141 our most precious. 653 00:35:36,141 --> 00:35:37,565 So that's how I make my decision. 654 00:35:38,788 --> 00:35:42,135 I've got a relative lives in a small town, about 15,000. 655 00:35:42,135 --> 00:35:43,778 There's two grocery stores and a Walmart. 656 00:35:43,778 --> 00:35:48,155 She clips coupons every week and goes to all three to buy the 657 00:35:48,155 --> 00:35:52,934 sales and I'm going to guess she might save $20, $25 a week, 658 00:35:53,056 --> 00:35:54,860 but it takes her two, two and a half hours. 659 00:35:54,860 --> 00:35:56,085 I'm not doing that. 660 00:35:56,085 --> 00:36:01,454 My time is more valuable, but that's her personal value system 661 00:36:01,454 --> 00:36:01,835 is money. 662 00:36:01,835 --> 00:36:04,132 I've got a friend who will only fly first class. 663 00:36:04,132 --> 00:36:09,987 They like that experience, okay , so we all have our personal 664 00:36:10,027 --> 00:36:16,577 value systems, but I claim that Amazon, uber, netflix they've 665 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,364 used this formula to where hey, I don't have a excuse not to buy 666 00:36:20,364 --> 00:36:20,684 from them. 667 00:36:20,684 --> 00:36:24,135 So that's what I preach in my book. 668 00:36:24,135 --> 00:36:30,150 And the cultural side of that is this we all have competitors. 669 00:36:30,530 --> 00:36:33,597 Or said another way, a buyer has alternatives. 670 00:36:33,597 --> 00:36:38,416 Do I wash my own car or do I go to the car wash? 671 00:36:38,416 --> 00:36:42,253 Now, do I go to the car wash where I'm spraying it myself, or 672 00:36:42,253 --> 00:36:43,916 do I go through the drive-thru? 673 00:36:43,916 --> 00:36:50,135 Okay, so you know which one of those do I do? 674 00:36:50,135 --> 00:36:56,887 And so those alternatives, those competitors, need to know 675 00:36:57,027 --> 00:36:57,851 about each other. 676 00:36:57,851 --> 00:37:00,474 And I joke about this. 677 00:37:00,474 --> 00:37:02,731 I'm a big Kansas City Chiefs fan. 678 00:37:02,731 --> 00:37:06,150 I go listen, andy Reid doesn't show up on a Sunday morning and 679 00:37:06,170 --> 00:37:07,735 go, let's see who we play in this week. 680 00:37:07,735 --> 00:37:09,873 And what do they like to do? 681 00:37:09,873 --> 00:37:11,038 Do they run the ball? 682 00:37:11,038 --> 00:37:11,822 Do they pass the ball? 683 00:37:11,822 --> 00:37:12,505 What about defense? 684 00:37:12,505 --> 00:37:13,367 Are they playing zone? 685 00:37:13,367 --> 00:37:16,034 No, they study their competition. 686 00:37:16,034 --> 00:37:19,972 So I claim that every company should have an R&D function. 687 00:37:19,972 --> 00:37:20,876 Now that sounds funny. 688 00:37:20,876 --> 00:37:24,405 Not a pharmaceutical or scientific company, but R&D. 689 00:37:24,487 --> 00:37:28,554 I need you to be researching the alternative that a buyer has. 690 00:37:28,554 --> 00:37:32,990 How do you stack up from a convenience standpoint, how much 691 00:37:32,990 --> 00:37:34,394 time, effort, simple, easy. 692 00:37:34,394 --> 00:37:38,068 From a price standpoint, from a transparency, from a user 693 00:37:38,108 --> 00:37:41,934 experience, from a guarantee or trust? 694 00:37:41,934 --> 00:37:46,487 And if you don't stack up, be working on that because that's 695 00:37:46,527 --> 00:37:47,932 the excuse your buyers are using . 696 00:37:47,932 --> 00:37:50,351 Well, I don't go there because it's just not a good experience. 697 00:37:50,351 --> 00:37:51,293 I don't get waited on. 698 00:37:51,293 --> 00:37:54,971 It takes too much time and too much effort or they're just 699 00:37:55,030 --> 00:37:55,532 priced high. 700 00:37:55,532 --> 00:37:57,552 You get these buyer issues. 701 00:37:57,552 --> 00:38:00,652 So study your competition and constantly be working on that, 702 00:38:01,186 --> 00:38:04,166 because if you don't, that's where startups come to play. 703 00:38:05,146 --> 00:38:09,574 3pls came to play because it was too hard to figure out these 704 00:38:09,735 --> 00:38:13,039 LTL prices and rules. 705 00:38:13,039 --> 00:38:16,092 It's too hard, too much time. 706 00:38:16,092 --> 00:38:17,980 3pls said oh, we'll make it easier. 707 00:38:17,980 --> 00:38:20,867 You want access to a TMS where you can rate, shop and create 708 00:38:20,887 --> 00:38:23,693 your own bills of lading and you just tell us what you need and 709 00:38:23,713 --> 00:38:25,936 we'll send a dry van or a flatbed or a free. 710 00:38:25,936 --> 00:38:28,481 Okay, make it easy. 711 00:38:28,481 --> 00:38:31,045 That's how that 3PL industry. 712 00:38:31,045 --> 00:38:35,516 So if you don't pay attention to what your buyers are looking 713 00:38:35,596 --> 00:38:35,777 for. 714 00:38:35,777 --> 00:38:38,369 You don't pay attention to what your competitors are doing. 715 00:38:38,369 --> 00:38:41,025 You're going to be the blockbuster and they're going to 716 00:38:41,025 --> 00:38:45,067 be the Netflix, or a Netflix is going to show up and say we 717 00:38:45,106 --> 00:38:46,992 found your weakness and we're going to exploit that. 718 00:38:46,992 --> 00:38:50,934 Well, that's a masterclass right there you just. 719 00:38:52,668 --> 00:38:56,266 Nate Shutes: I'm sure for those that are listening, sometimes 720 00:38:56,286 --> 00:38:59,155 it's really easy to get wrapped up in the day to day or just 721 00:38:59,175 --> 00:39:03,527 what the P&L shows in the last month end and or your latest big 722 00:39:03,527 --> 00:39:08,909 customer issue or or contract problem, you name it, and that's 723 00:39:08,909 --> 00:39:11,195 a part of running and owning a business, for sure. 724 00:39:11,195 --> 00:39:13,849 But there is also an opportunity to get on the 725 00:39:13,869 --> 00:39:18,318 balcony and instead of just asking, like, how should we be 726 00:39:18,358 --> 00:39:19,159 playing this game? 727 00:39:19,159 --> 00:39:21,693 It's, is this even the right game to be playing in the first 728 00:39:21,713 --> 00:39:21,934 place? 729 00:39:23,110 --> 00:39:23,351 Jim Bramlett: this game. 730 00:39:23,351 --> 00:39:25,563 Is this even the right game to be playing in the first place? 731 00:39:25,563 --> 00:39:30,751 Nate, I've been at this for over 40 years and for the 732 00:39:30,771 --> 00:39:31,956 companies I worked for, never once did I walk into a meeting 733 00:39:31,976 --> 00:39:33,202 and say, okay, we're going to talk about how many customers we 734 00:39:33,202 --> 00:39:35,869 gained last month and why, and then we're going to talk about 735 00:39:35,889 --> 00:39:37,454 how many customers we lost and why. 736 00:39:37,454 --> 00:39:39,606 Never, it was always. 737 00:39:39,606 --> 00:39:41,233 Well, here's our revenue. 738 00:39:41,233 --> 00:39:41,956 What was the budget? 739 00:39:41,956 --> 00:39:43,141 Oh, we're beating budget. 740 00:39:43,141 --> 00:39:43,744 We're losing budget. 741 00:39:43,744 --> 00:39:46,811 Okay, now here's our expenses oh, we're over in labor. 742 00:39:46,811 --> 00:39:47,856 We're going to have to do something about that. 743 00:39:47,856 --> 00:39:49,190 Now let's talk about our IT project. 744 00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:50,951 Me, me, me, we, we, we. 745 00:39:53,106 --> 00:39:59,592 One of my biggest heroes is Jeff Bezos, and, if anybody's 746 00:39:59,612 --> 00:40:04,532 looking for a really good book, the Everything Store is an 747 00:40:04,552 --> 00:40:05,364 awesome book and it's the Amazon story. 748 00:40:05,364 --> 00:40:10,255 When I started FreightProcom in 1999, Jeff had already started 749 00:40:10,336 --> 00:40:14,114 Amazon and he was a villain. 750 00:40:14,114 --> 00:40:18,125 He was a bumbling fool. 751 00:40:18,125 --> 00:40:21,715 I think he even made Time Magazine because he was such an 752 00:40:21,815 --> 00:40:26,114 idiot, Burning cash left and right, refusing to change his 753 00:40:26,235 --> 00:40:32,273 business model, and Wall Street was just castigizing him, saying 754 00:40:32,273 --> 00:40:34,478 what's he doing? 755 00:40:34,478 --> 00:40:38,657 Well, Jeff believes in putting the customer at the center of 756 00:40:38,697 --> 00:40:40,565 his universe and working everything backward. 757 00:40:40,565 --> 00:40:43,909 Matter of fact, their number one leadership principles are 758 00:40:43,969 --> 00:40:50,117 leaders need to obsess about the customers, not just care obsess 759 00:40:50,117 --> 00:40:50,117 . 760 00:40:50,117 --> 00:40:56,454 Jeff's whole theory was if we satisfy the customer, take care 761 00:40:56,494 --> 00:40:59,525 of the customer, everything else will fall in place. 762 00:40:59,525 --> 00:41:01,851 Okay, and I believe that. 763 00:41:02,431 --> 00:41:07,027 I believe that I used to watch the show the Profit with Marcus 764 00:41:07,108 --> 00:41:10,956 Limonis and he would go in and research a company and it was 765 00:41:11,016 --> 00:41:13,708 always people, process and product. 766 00:41:13,708 --> 00:41:15,653 I also believe purpose is another P. 767 00:41:15,653 --> 00:41:19,367 That's important, but that's how he would evaluate and I tell 768 00:41:19,367 --> 00:41:22,791 people look, if the product isn't right meaning 769 00:41:23,010 --> 00:41:26,775 customer-centric, with all the four criteria if the product 770 00:41:27,295 --> 00:41:31,340 isn't right, I'm not sure it matters about your people and 771 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:32,061 your process. 772 00:41:32,061 --> 00:41:38,173 So if the product is right and it's meeting the needs of the 773 00:41:38,333 --> 00:41:41,840 buyer, then it's probably going to work. 774 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,751 Then go work on your people and your process, but focus on what 775 00:41:46,751 --> 00:41:48,135 the buyer is looking for. 776 00:41:48,135 --> 00:41:51,355 Don't start that restaurant because you like to cook. 777 00:41:51,355 --> 00:41:54,856 If you're thinking about starting a company, start here. 778 00:41:54,856 --> 00:41:59,353 Go find a business or an industry in your neighborhood, I 779 00:41:59,353 --> 00:41:59,934 don't care. 780 00:41:59,934 --> 00:42:01,358 That has a weakness. 781 00:42:01,358 --> 00:42:03,411 They're not very convenient. 782 00:42:03,411 --> 00:42:06,231 They don't give a good user experience, they're priced too 783 00:42:06,291 --> 00:42:06,512 high. 784 00:42:06,512 --> 00:42:07,916 I can't trust them. 785 00:42:07,916 --> 00:42:09,387 They don't have guarantees. 786 00:42:09,387 --> 00:42:12,492 That's a weakness you can leverage. 787 00:42:12,492 --> 00:42:17,179 That's what I preach now. 788 00:42:18,507 --> 00:42:23,858 Nate Shutes: Well, on that note, we can't record for two hours. 789 00:42:23,858 --> 00:42:27,773 I would like to, because I think this is really valuable 790 00:42:27,853 --> 00:42:31,059 content and people need to be reminded of it. 791 00:42:31,059 --> 00:42:38,949 So how will you know when you're done, when you have met 792 00:42:38,989 --> 00:42:41,135 the purpose that you're seeking? 793 00:42:48,085 --> 00:42:48,885 Jim Bramlett: I don't know if I'll ever be done. 794 00:42:48,885 --> 00:42:51,050 You know, what I enjoy today more than anything is helping 795 00:42:51,070 --> 00:42:51,231 others. 796 00:42:51,231 --> 00:42:53,375 I went, you know I went through . 797 00:42:53,375 --> 00:42:58,969 A mentor once told me, before you can succeed, you must fail, 798 00:42:59,831 --> 00:43:03,318 and his point was you won't know what success is if you don't 799 00:43:03,358 --> 00:43:05,947 know what failure is not fail right. 800 00:43:05,947 --> 00:43:09,855 Those first two companies I failed, and I've failed more 801 00:43:09,894 --> 00:43:16,373 than that, and so my goal in life now is do anything I can to 802 00:43:16,373 --> 00:43:19,217 help anybody else from failing. 803 00:43:19,217 --> 00:43:23,572 You know, call it servant leadership or whatever, but I 804 00:43:23,612 --> 00:43:25,547 don't think I'll ever be done at that. 805 00:43:25,547 --> 00:43:28,875 I'm not the kind of guy to sit on the porch and watch the world 806 00:43:28,875 --> 00:43:29,335 go by. 807 00:43:29,335 --> 00:43:31,469 I got to be involved in something, and the more I can 808 00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:33,675 help anybody else, the better I feel about it. 809 00:43:34,585 --> 00:43:36,369 Nate Shutes: Well, I think you're in the right place, then. 810 00:43:36,369 --> 00:43:40,612 You're where you're meant to be helping support other 811 00:43:41,215 --> 00:43:43,804 entrepreneurs on their journey, because you're further down the 812 00:43:43,864 --> 00:43:48,132 road than they are, and this has been helpful for me as well. 813 00:43:48,132 --> 00:43:52,889 Jim, I've learned a new framework for the four Ps. 814 00:43:52,889 --> 00:43:53,871 I like that a lot. 815 00:43:53,871 --> 00:43:55,954 I'm going to dig into that some more. 816 00:43:55,954 --> 00:43:59,815 Where can people reach out to you or where can they find out 817 00:43:59,875 --> 00:44:02,224 more about what you're doing and what you're writing? 818 00:44:03,431 --> 00:44:04,494 Jim Bramlett: to you or where can they find out more about 819 00:44:04,516 --> 00:44:06,465 what you're doing and what you're writing? 820 00:44:06,465 --> 00:44:11,427 Yeah, my website is jimbramlettcom. 821 00:44:11,427 --> 00:44:13,391 I will be launching a new website in the near future 822 00:44:13,411 --> 00:44:13,931 called Strategies to Grow. 823 00:44:13,931 --> 00:44:14,532 I'm on LinkedIn. 824 00:44:14,532 --> 00:44:17,699 I'm an active LinkedIn, so hit me up there. 825 00:44:17,699 --> 00:44:21,168 I put quite a bit of content out there and then I'm working 826 00:44:21,228 --> 00:44:21,829 on a course. 827 00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:25,894 I'm working on an online course so that people can learn this 828 00:44:26,016 --> 00:44:29,681 formula and how it applies to them. 829 00:44:29,681 --> 00:44:32,452 So that's how they can find me and I'm happy to help anybody I 830 00:44:32,512 --> 00:44:32,813 can. 831 00:44:33,775 --> 00:44:34,324 Nate Shutes: Right on Well. 832 00:44:34,324 --> 00:44:36,532 Again, jim, thank you for sharing your story, for 833 00:44:36,632 --> 00:44:39,630 unpacking it and for the help that you're definitely going to 834 00:44:39,650 --> 00:44:42,757 be offering to others as they listen to your journey. 835 00:44:42,757 --> 00:44:44,369 We are all rooting for you, my friend. 836 00:44:45,090 --> 00:44:47,135 Jim Bramlett: Nate, thanks for having me buddy Take care 837 00:44:47,155 --> 00:44:47,317 Brother. 838 00:44:51,326 --> 00:44:53,271 Nate Shutes: Thanks for listening to another episode of 839 00:44:53,291 --> 00:44:56,206 the Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics, and a special thank 840 00:44:56,226 --> 00:44:59,014 you to our sponsors and the team behind the scenes who make it 841 00:44:59,054 --> 00:44:59,637 all possible. 842 00:44:59,637 --> 00:45:03,114 Be sure to like, follow or subscribe to the podcast to get 843 00:45:03,134 --> 00:45:03,936 the latest updates. 844 00:45:03,936 --> 00:45:06,969 To learn more about the show and connect with the growing 845 00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:10,090 community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounderscom. 846 00:45:10,090 --> 00:45:14,230 And, of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to 847 00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:14,972 share their stories.