1 00:00:33,262 --> 00:00:35,267 Nate Shutes: Hello and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to 2 00:00:35,307 --> 00:00:37,932 Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it 3 00:00:37,951 --> 00:00:39,634 the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 4 00:00:39,634 --> 00:00:42,567 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and 5 00:00:42,606 --> 00:00:44,070 inspiring others to take the leap. 6 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,167 Jim Bramlett: It's a roller coaster ride that you might 7 00:00:47,266 --> 00:00:48,010 ultimately fail. 8 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,567 Nate Shutes: That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 9 00:00:51,281 --> 00:00:52,146 Jim Bramlett: It was very hard. 10 00:00:52,620 --> 00:00:54,548 Nate Shutes: It truly is building a legacy. 11 00:00:54,548 --> 00:00:58,780 The more life you live, the more wisdom you have, because we 12 00:00:58,780 --> 00:01:00,064 are where we're supposed to be. 13 00:01:00,064 --> 00:01:01,751 Kind of answering the call. 14 00:01:01,751 --> 00:01:04,709 Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 15 00:01:04,709 --> 00:01:06,634 I'm your host, nate Shoots. 16 00:01:06,634 --> 00:01:09,680 Let's build something together from the ground up. 17 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:14,924 Hello everybody, and welcome back to the show. 18 00:01:15,525 --> 00:01:19,668 We are in season three, doing what we have been doing for a 19 00:01:19,728 --> 00:01:23,691 couple of years now going deep into people's personal stories 20 00:01:23,730 --> 00:01:27,133 and backgrounds on why they chose to start companies in the 21 00:01:27,173 --> 00:01:30,674 supply chain industry and what keeps them going, what are the 22 00:01:30,734 --> 00:01:34,138 lessons they've learned along the way, and how can we tap into 23 00:01:34,138 --> 00:01:37,599 all of that collective knowledge and not only educate 24 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,748 and inform, but a big part of what we try to do here is also 25 00:01:40,787 --> 00:01:41,409 to inspire. 26 00:01:41,409 --> 00:01:44,323 For entrepreneurs that are deep into their journey or just 27 00:01:44,384 --> 00:01:48,182 beginning, it is a roller coaster ride like no other, and 28 00:01:48,281 --> 00:01:51,774 so hearing the stories of others that are going through that 29 00:01:51,834 --> 00:01:54,662 same experience often offers them a lot of encouragement. 30 00:01:54,662 --> 00:01:58,792 And then I also get outreach pretty regularly from somebody 31 00:01:58,831 --> 00:02:04,691 who says I'm working a job or I have an idea and I'm trying to 32 00:02:04,811 --> 00:02:07,162 come up with a way that I can launch this business, and I've 33 00:02:07,203 --> 00:02:08,266 got a bunch of questions. 34 00:02:08,266 --> 00:02:14,002 And well, entrepreneurship is about asking questions endlessly 35 00:02:14,002 --> 00:02:16,129 and trying to find a good answer to it. 36 00:02:16,129 --> 00:02:19,824 So I often tell them I don't have great answers for you, but 37 00:02:20,727 --> 00:02:24,581 I do have a library of content of folks that have tried it. 38 00:02:24,581 --> 00:02:27,610 Not everybody has succeeded, but they've all said it was 39 00:02:27,689 --> 00:02:29,983 worth it, and so that's what this whole thing is about. 40 00:02:30,062 --> 00:02:33,450 So I hope to offer some encouragement and some 41 00:02:33,490 --> 00:02:37,120 inspiration today by unpacking the story of Jim Bramlett, who 42 00:02:37,180 --> 00:02:39,305 is the CEO of Five String Solutions. 43 00:02:39,305 --> 00:02:43,533 He has a storied career in the logistics industry. 44 00:02:43,533 --> 00:02:47,046 I'm going to have him unpack a little bit of that for us. 45 00:02:47,046 --> 00:02:50,143 But there are times in your life where you meet somebody and 46 00:02:50,143 --> 00:02:55,080 you say, oh my goodness, we have mirror image experiences in 47 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,090 a lot of different places, but also just deep interests in a 48 00:02:58,150 --> 00:02:59,042 lot of the same places. 49 00:02:59,042 --> 00:03:01,448 So we might be talking for two and a half hours today. 50 00:03:01,448 --> 00:03:02,169 We'll see. 51 00:03:02,169 --> 00:03:07,187 But first, jim, thank you so much for coming on the show, and 52 00:03:07,187 --> 00:03:11,883 would you mind just doing a brief introduction of what your 53 00:03:11,943 --> 00:03:13,086 career has looked like so far? 54 00:03:13,808 --> 00:03:15,493 Jim Bramlett: Sure, hey, thanks for having me. 55 00:03:15,493 --> 00:03:17,018 It's fun. 56 00:03:17,018 --> 00:03:21,245 I do consider you a brother from another mother and you and 57 00:03:21,306 --> 00:03:22,927 I have so much in common. 58 00:03:22,927 --> 00:03:28,342 So I'm an old you can see the gray hair if you're watching 59 00:03:28,382 --> 00:03:34,028 this but my logistics transportation career spans a 60 00:03:34,068 --> 00:03:36,251 little over 42 years. 61 00:03:36,251 --> 00:03:40,256 It wasn't exactly the first job I got out of school. 62 00:03:40,256 --> 00:03:47,431 I took a sales job for a consumer goods company, but 63 00:03:48,472 --> 00:03:52,903 after a year it just wasn't my thing and I ended up getting 64 00:03:52,943 --> 00:03:56,471 hired as a management trainee for Roadway Express at a break 65 00:03:56,531 --> 00:03:58,561 bulk in Springfield, missouri. 66 00:03:59,581 --> 00:04:00,584 That's where I went to school. 67 00:04:00,584 --> 00:04:05,893 And, god, I found it so fascinating. 68 00:04:05,893 --> 00:04:07,375 And here's what got me. 69 00:04:07,375 --> 00:04:11,449 I mean, very early on I'd see a pallet of freight and I'd say, 70 00:04:11,650 --> 00:04:16,187 oh wait, a minute, two days ago that was in Atlanta, and two, 71 00:04:16,247 --> 00:04:18,842 you know, two days from now that's going to be in LA. 72 00:04:18,842 --> 00:04:23,891 God, look at all the things that have to happen to make that 73 00:04:23,891 --> 00:04:25,274 transpire. 74 00:04:25,274 --> 00:04:30,088 And that just fascinated me to no end. 75 00:04:30,769 --> 00:04:34,443 And so I began my journey and I've been in it ever since in 76 00:04:34,824 --> 00:04:35,826 many different aspects. 77 00:04:35,826 --> 00:04:39,901 I've studied LTL, and I mean studied. 78 00:04:39,901 --> 00:04:42,787 I've gone through the rules, tariffs, I've gone through lots. 79 00:04:42,787 --> 00:04:49,987 So I kind of always kind of centered myself around LTL and 80 00:04:50,288 --> 00:04:54,261 I've started in my career seven different companies four for 81 00:04:54,321 --> 00:04:55,644 myself, three for others. 82 00:04:55,644 --> 00:04:57,209 I've started a division. 83 00:04:57,209 --> 00:05:02,353 I'm proud to say that I was the first guy to start a 84 00:05:03,036 --> 00:05:16,216 time-definite service in the LTL industry for yellow back in the 85 00:05:16,216 --> 00:05:19,389 day, and until that time it was a one trick pony. 86 00:05:19,389 --> 00:05:22,187 We are only doing oh, you want to get Chicago to Atlanta? 87 00:05:22,187 --> 00:05:23,451 It's three days, that's all you get. 88 00:05:23,451 --> 00:05:28,644 So an expedited time definite service and then the others in 89 00:05:28,663 --> 00:05:30,269 the industry kind of copied that . 90 00:05:30,269 --> 00:05:31,586 So I had a lot of fun doing that. 91 00:05:32,781 --> 00:05:35,487 But I've always been a little bit creative, starting new 92 00:05:36,067 --> 00:05:38,574 companies, new offerings, new divisions. 93 00:05:38,574 --> 00:05:41,202 I just always so. 94 00:05:41,202 --> 00:05:43,670 Don't put me in a factory, in a production line, that's just 95 00:05:43,709 --> 00:05:44,312 not my gig. 96 00:05:44,312 --> 00:05:51,588 But I've had a lot of fun doing that and I'm still a 97 00:05:51,627 --> 00:05:53,913 shareholder in my last company I founded. 98 00:05:53,913 --> 00:05:55,612 I'm no longer active in the day-to-day. 99 00:05:55,612 --> 00:06:00,468 I let the others do that because I'm doing executive 100 00:06:00,507 --> 00:06:03,553 coaching now, running a peer group, and I love that. 101 00:06:03,553 --> 00:06:04,822 I'm a business nerd. 102 00:06:04,822 --> 00:06:08,632 I love learning how businesses work, the challenges they face, 103 00:06:09,639 --> 00:06:14,651 the wins they experience and all of that. 104 00:06:14,651 --> 00:06:17,336 I've a couple books, kind of, about that. 105 00:06:17,336 --> 00:06:21,706 I have a really strong theory about organic business growth 106 00:06:22,209 --> 00:06:24,014 and I'm out promoting that all the time. 107 00:06:24,014 --> 00:06:29,103 I love the journeys of any entrepreneur that's brave enough 108 00:06:29,103 --> 00:06:29,624 to take. 109 00:06:29,624 --> 00:06:34,009 You know, take that step and, uh, cause it's scary. 110 00:06:34,009 --> 00:06:37,314 It was scary for me a lot of times. 111 00:06:37,314 --> 00:06:41,466 Um, so that's a real quick synopsis and I'm going to more 112 00:06:41,507 --> 00:06:42,269 detail if you'd like. 113 00:06:42,951 --> 00:06:44,937 Nate Shutes: Well, I want to unpack it. 114 00:06:44,937 --> 00:06:49,168 In a career that spans four decades, the industry has 115 00:06:49,329 --> 00:06:54,680 undergone massive transformation deregulation in the early 116 00:06:54,781 --> 00:06:58,384 eighties, the rise of the internet and technology in the 117 00:06:58,464 --> 00:07:00,266 early 2000s and late 90s. 118 00:07:00,266 --> 00:07:04,591 Now we're into an AI environment or an artificial 119 00:07:04,632 --> 00:07:05,853 intelligence age. 120 00:07:05,853 --> 00:07:09,216 So I guess I'm curious what hasn't changed? 121 00:07:16,579 --> 00:07:19,271 Jim Bramlett: I'll tell you what hasn't changed, and especially 122 00:07:19,291 --> 00:07:20,598 in the LTL industry, is the complexity. 123 00:07:20,598 --> 00:07:25,745 You know they're making headway , but I argue that they are 124 00:07:25,764 --> 00:07:27,290 still using many parts of the Kamae classification system that 125 00:07:27,290 --> 00:07:29,779 was born from the railroad industry back in 1935. 126 00:07:29,779 --> 00:07:33,199 And I believe in simplicity. 127 00:07:33,199 --> 00:07:34,766 That is not simple. 128 00:07:34,766 --> 00:07:36,324 The tariffs are not simple. 129 00:07:36,324 --> 00:07:38,600 The tariffs are not simple. 130 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,449 The rules are not simple. 131 00:07:41,449 --> 00:07:47,129 The industry makes it pretty complex and there's been very 132 00:07:47,228 --> 00:07:49,874 little change from that. 133 00:07:49,874 --> 00:07:56,934 However you talk about the progression the industry's found 134 00:07:56,934 --> 00:07:56,934 . 135 00:07:57,540 --> 00:08:03,529 One reason for 3PL's existence is to make the lives of shippers 136 00:08:03,529 --> 00:08:08,221 simpler easier, save them time and effort, because it's not 137 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,644 easy dealing with an LTL carrier and figuring out what the net 138 00:08:12,824 --> 00:08:15,867 charge is going to be for any particular shipment. 139 00:08:16,209 --> 00:08:22,694 It's not easy finding the right truck to haul your truck load 140 00:08:22,714 --> 00:08:25,536 because of the fragmentation in the industry. 141 00:08:25,536 --> 00:08:29,889 So I believe the third-party logistics industry is predicated 142 00:08:29,889 --> 00:08:31,932 on exactly what I preach. 143 00:08:31,932 --> 00:08:35,069 We're going to make your shippers' lives simpler easier. 144 00:08:35,069 --> 00:08:35,864 We're going to save you time and effort. 145 00:08:35,864 --> 00:08:36,693 We're going to make your shippers lives simpler easier. 146 00:08:36,693 --> 00:08:36,777 We're going to save you time and effort. 147 00:08:36,777 --> 00:09:10,186 We're going to give you a better user experience. 148 00:09:10,186 --> 00:09:14,985 We might even be able to save you money and you can trust us, 149 00:09:15,026 --> 00:09:17,350 and that's all the things I preach all the time. 150 00:09:17,350 --> 00:09:20,480 So I love that kind of progression. 151 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:26,504 The technology that you mentioned, and now AI is and I'm 152 00:09:26,504 --> 00:09:29,445 not kept up with it all, but I've got to imagine AI is 153 00:09:29,886 --> 00:09:34,268 absolutely impacting how logistics and transportation 154 00:09:34,308 --> 00:09:43,233 companies function and how they can be more efficient Legacy LTL 155 00:09:43,233 --> 00:09:49,496 pricing and classification methodology is probably going to 156 00:09:49,496 --> 00:09:51,877 be around for a while longer, although there have been a 157 00:09:51,938 --> 00:09:53,158 number of attempts at reform. 158 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,381 Nate Shutes: But the beneficiaries of that system are 159 00:10:01,381 --> 00:10:03,463 the LTL carriers themselves, and so it works for them quite 160 00:10:03,503 --> 00:10:03,663 well. 161 00:10:03,663 --> 00:10:07,246 So along that journey, you discovered something that led 162 00:10:07,306 --> 00:10:08,788 you to create FiveString. 163 00:10:08,788 --> 00:10:11,350 So a couple of questions. 164 00:10:11,350 --> 00:10:14,713 What was the moment or the catalyst of this? 165 00:10:14,713 --> 00:10:17,576 Is the idea that I want to pursue, for however long it 166 00:10:17,616 --> 00:10:18,677 takes to find the answer. 167 00:10:23,301 --> 00:10:24,541 Jim Bramlett: And why the name FiveString? 168 00:10:24,541 --> 00:10:28,022 All right, great, good question . 169 00:10:28,022 --> 00:10:31,903 So Genesis 5-String started when I started my 170 00:10:32,043 --> 00:10:36,805 internet-centric 3PL it was called FreightProcom back in 171 00:10:36,825 --> 00:10:38,445 1999. 172 00:10:38,445 --> 00:10:42,927 And we got involved, not because of me but somebody who 173 00:10:42,947 --> 00:10:43,447 worked for me. 174 00:10:43,447 --> 00:10:47,568 We got involved in a lot of pool distribution and those kind 175 00:10:47,568 --> 00:10:53,710 of solutions and we were using what is termed as couriers to do 176 00:10:53,710 --> 00:10:56,091 the final mile delivery. 177 00:10:56,691 --> 00:10:59,552 Well, this is a whole part of the industry I was not familiar 178 00:10:59,572 --> 00:11:03,673 with, but one of my people were and I got to learning about it 179 00:11:03,693 --> 00:11:08,134 and I was fascinated by it that these people even existed, 180 00:11:08,154 --> 00:11:11,015 because I grew up in the LTL space with big brands you see 181 00:11:11,055 --> 00:11:13,856 rolling down the highway everywhere across the cities. 182 00:11:13,856 --> 00:11:15,457 You recognize these brands. 183 00:11:15,457 --> 00:11:21,098 Well, that courier industry is very fragmented. 184 00:11:21,098 --> 00:11:22,559 There's thousands of players. 185 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,504 They don't all do the same thing. 186 00:11:25,504 --> 00:11:28,483 I joke that it's an industry a little bit like Baskin Robbins 187 00:11:28,563 --> 00:11:33,839 it's ice cream but there's 31 flavors but it's an industry. 188 00:11:33,839 --> 00:11:37,909 The courier industry is largely comprised of companies who are 189 00:11:37,989 --> 00:11:39,293 using independent contractors. 190 00:11:39,293 --> 00:11:44,826 An independent contractor model has a 30% cost advantage over a 191 00:11:44,826 --> 00:11:50,634 W-2 provider and they're so flexible. 192 00:11:50,634 --> 00:11:51,735 What do you need? 193 00:11:51,735 --> 00:11:52,400 We'll do that. 194 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:59,933 And so, matter of fact, we were doing distribution to homes for 195 00:11:59,933 --> 00:12:03,285 a home party plan company and the drivers actually had the 196 00:12:03,305 --> 00:12:05,389 garage door codes for certain customers. 197 00:12:05,389 --> 00:12:06,911 They would, you know, deliver every week. 198 00:12:06,911 --> 00:12:08,434 Yeah, and they. 199 00:12:08,434 --> 00:12:09,536 It was amazing. 200 00:12:09,536 --> 00:12:13,603 So anyway, I got, I got really fascinated with that and and 201 00:12:13,703 --> 00:12:18,752 after that journey, you know, we started getting into e-commerce 202 00:12:18,752 --> 00:12:22,344 and of course it doesn't take long to say that's going to be 203 00:12:22,384 --> 00:12:23,768 pretty popular, right, and? 204 00:12:23,768 --> 00:12:28,106 And so I saw the writing on the wall that this e-commerce thing 205 00:12:28,106 --> 00:12:30,532 is going to pick up, and not necessarily small packets, 206 00:12:30,552 --> 00:12:33,969 because there's UPS, fedex and the post office, but on the 207 00:12:34,009 --> 00:12:37,380 large and bulky there wasn't anything equivalent to UPS or 208 00:12:37,420 --> 00:12:37,901 FedEx. 209 00:12:37,901 --> 00:12:42,350 And so I said, well, that's going to explode and there's 210 00:12:42,370 --> 00:12:48,127 going to be more need for that final model delivery, not only 211 00:12:48,167 --> 00:12:50,953 the homes but, you know, in case of pool distribution, et cetera 212 00:12:50,953 --> 00:12:50,953 . 213 00:12:52,100 --> 00:12:57,063 And I ran into a company called Grand Junction I think, nate, 214 00:12:57,103 --> 00:12:58,368 you've heard of those guys. 215 00:12:58,368 --> 00:13:02,784 They were very successful putting the data connectors in, 216 00:13:02,804 --> 00:13:06,408 data connectors in, so you connect shippers with the final 217 00:13:06,448 --> 00:13:10,333 mile and exchange information, you know, passing orders, 218 00:13:10,673 --> 00:13:21,301 pulling back shipment statuses, pods and the like, and they were 219 00:13:21,301 --> 00:13:21,641 doing quite well. 220 00:13:21,641 --> 00:13:22,784 But they got acquired by your neighbor, target, and Target 221 00:13:22,804 --> 00:13:24,888 decided we're not going to make you available to the public. 222 00:13:24,888 --> 00:13:27,914 We only want you for our internal use. 223 00:13:27,914 --> 00:13:31,689 So tell all your customers that they need to find another home. 224 00:13:31,689 --> 00:13:32,612 We'll give them a year. 225 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:38,129 And so I said, hmm, wonder who else is in that line of work. 226 00:13:38,129 --> 00:13:44,286 And I found out who it was and I talked to them and I thought 227 00:13:44,306 --> 00:13:48,393 there was something they weren't going to be doing that I 228 00:13:48,433 --> 00:13:49,455 thought was important. 229 00:13:49,455 --> 00:13:51,603 And so I said you know what? 230 00:13:51,603 --> 00:13:54,712 I think there's not a lot of competition and there's a need. 231 00:13:54,712 --> 00:14:02,668 So I'm going to try and duplicate what Grand Junction 232 00:14:02,688 --> 00:14:09,056 was doing, In other words, create a data hub that shippers 233 00:14:09,116 --> 00:14:11,623 and carriers, especially fundamental couriers, can 234 00:14:11,683 --> 00:14:17,541 connect to, because that all-important status for the end 235 00:14:17,541 --> 00:14:19,225 consumer is important. 236 00:14:19,225 --> 00:14:21,233 And I tell people now. 237 00:14:21,313 --> 00:14:24,081 I said you know, everybody's pretty accustomed to the 238 00:14:24,161 --> 00:14:28,632 information you get when Amazon makes a delivery, but not 239 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,584 everybody has their own blue trucks running around. 240 00:14:30,584 --> 00:14:37,385 And so in the large and bulky side of the business, unless you 241 00:14:37,385 --> 00:14:42,661 use a 3PL like a JBN or an XPO or something of that nature, if 242 00:14:42,721 --> 00:14:46,590 you want to assemble your own network, it's going to take 243 00:14:46,650 --> 00:14:48,073 multiple carriers, okay. 244 00:14:48,073 --> 00:14:51,129 So how do you get this delivery information? 245 00:14:51,129 --> 00:14:52,546 How do you push orders to them? 246 00:14:52,546 --> 00:14:55,083 How do you get quotes back, whatever you need to do. 247 00:14:55,083 --> 00:15:00,069 From a data standpoint, that's a pretty hard problem to solve. 248 00:15:00,069 --> 00:15:03,229 And so I set about solving that . 249 00:15:03,721 --> 00:15:04,786 But I didn't want to be a broker . 250 00:15:04,786 --> 00:15:10,883 I'd been there and done that and I thought being a Grand 251 00:15:10,903 --> 00:15:14,491 Junction being a SaaS provider with the technology connectors. 252 00:15:14,491 --> 00:15:17,545 But I want to build a referral network because people don't 253 00:15:17,685 --> 00:15:19,751 know who's in the final mile. 254 00:15:19,751 --> 00:15:21,942 They don't know that flavor of ice cream. 255 00:15:21,942 --> 00:15:25,868 Oh, I want to deliver fitness equipment what kind of carriers 256 00:15:25,909 --> 00:15:26,389 do I need? 257 00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:31,290 Or I want to deliver meal kits what do I need for that? 258 00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:37,148 And so we built a referral network so that when we engaged 259 00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:40,293 a shipper, I could introduce them. 260 00:15:40,293 --> 00:15:42,156 But they cut the deal themselves. 261 00:15:42,156 --> 00:15:44,849 We were just a technology enabler. 262 00:15:44,849 --> 00:15:52,371 So that's what we set out to do and we're still doing it. 263 00:15:52,371 --> 00:15:55,509 Only I'm not doing it on a day-to-day basis. 264 00:15:56,020 --> 00:15:59,145 Nate Shutes: What's interesting to me about that is when you 265 00:15:59,185 --> 00:16:03,311 have deep domain expertise and you understand all of the 266 00:16:03,732 --> 00:16:06,096 perspectives and roles in the market. 267 00:16:06,501 --> 00:16:08,589 You've got carriers in the middle mile. 268 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,644 You have carriers in the final mile of a whole bunch of 269 00:16:12,664 --> 00:16:15,580 different varieties, from couriers on up to box trucks 270 00:16:16,624 --> 00:16:18,944 doing white glove delivery, and then you have truckload 271 00:16:18,985 --> 00:16:22,490 providers, you have final mile nodes. 272 00:16:22,490 --> 00:16:26,108 And then you have the shipper side of things, where, from 273 00:16:26,209 --> 00:16:29,324 enterprise on down to small business, they're not in the 274 00:16:29,384 --> 00:16:32,912 logistics business, they are in the product business, and this 275 00:16:33,212 --> 00:16:38,035 is a necessary evil in some ways , and they can either let that 276 00:16:38,075 --> 00:16:40,381 be a liability or they can turn it into some kind of a 277 00:16:40,441 --> 00:16:41,401 competitive advantage. 278 00:16:41,401 --> 00:16:45,564 And so, after the decades of experience that you had at that 279 00:16:45,625 --> 00:16:50,548 point to be able to articulate a narrow gap that wasn't being 280 00:16:50,608 --> 00:16:54,651 served in the industry, that kind of intuition and deep 281 00:16:54,811 --> 00:16:59,775 insight that says, hey, I know somebody's building this product 282 00:16:59,775 --> 00:17:04,684 , but I think they're missing another layer, that level of 283 00:17:04,724 --> 00:17:07,953 strategic identification of a market need. 284 00:17:07,953 --> 00:17:10,961 Where did that come from for you? 285 00:17:10,961 --> 00:17:12,546 Is that something that are you? 286 00:17:12,546 --> 00:17:17,144 Constantly your back brain is thinking about ltl and you can't 287 00:17:17,144 --> 00:17:17,724 turn it off. 288 00:17:17,724 --> 00:17:18,907 Or did you read a book? 289 00:17:18,907 --> 00:17:21,859 Or like, where does that curiosity to keep looking for 290 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:22,200 that. 291 00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:26,582 Jim Bramlett: Um slice of an insight come from well, one, one 292 00:17:26,582 --> 00:17:32,085 of the things and like I said in my intro, I have studied. 293 00:17:32,085 --> 00:17:34,653 I just wasn't in LTL. 294 00:17:34,653 --> 00:17:40,412 I studied it deeply and you know, the thing that amazed me 295 00:17:41,053 --> 00:17:47,195 was and it still does LTL carriers do not like anything 296 00:17:47,236 --> 00:17:50,285 that's not industrial shipments, meaning dock-to-dock. 297 00:17:50,285 --> 00:17:53,213 They love that, they price that , that's what they want. 298 00:17:53,474 --> 00:17:54,356 Nate Shutes: Palletized yep. 299 00:17:54,887 --> 00:17:57,476 Jim Bramlett: But if it's a shipment to a residence, if it's 300 00:17:57,476 --> 00:18:01,448 a shipment to a self-storage unit, a golf course, you know a 301 00:18:01,969 --> 00:18:05,737 construction site, or requires an appointment, they don't like 302 00:18:05,777 --> 00:18:05,817 it. 303 00:18:05,817 --> 00:18:07,125 So what do they do? 304 00:18:07,125 --> 00:18:09,471 They have these assessorial charges, and I saw the 305 00:18:09,551 --> 00:18:13,645 assessorial charges getting more and more punitive. 306 00:18:13,645 --> 00:18:19,115 Okay, well, you don't like it, but there is a factor segment of 307 00:18:19,115 --> 00:18:21,059 the transportation industry does like it. 308 00:18:21,059 --> 00:18:26,374 You know, I used to joke when I started meeting these final 309 00:18:26,394 --> 00:18:29,871 mile carriers, the couriers hey, do you know about limited 310 00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:30,333 access? 311 00:18:30,333 --> 00:18:33,275 And they go what are you talking about? 312 00:18:33,275 --> 00:18:37,134 Well, do you charge extra to deliver to the self-storage unit 313 00:18:37,134 --> 00:18:37,134 ? 314 00:18:37,134 --> 00:18:38,865 Do you charge extra to deliver to a house? 315 00:18:38,865 --> 00:18:42,327 Do you charge extra for the lift gate that's on your box 316 00:18:42,347 --> 00:18:42,607 truck? 317 00:18:42,607 --> 00:18:46,270 No, no, no To them. 318 00:18:46,270 --> 00:18:58,158 It's a delivery which I think it's another opportunity for 319 00:18:58,198 --> 00:19:04,802 customers to use a different kind of service that may be a 320 00:19:04,842 --> 00:19:05,982 little bit better on the delivery. 321 00:19:06,746 --> 00:19:08,592 But you just hit the nail on the head. 322 00:19:08,592 --> 00:19:09,575 What about the middle mile? 323 00:19:09,575 --> 00:19:10,690 See, they're just final mile. 324 00:19:10,690 --> 00:19:16,054 And so how you integrate that middle mile to the final mile? 325 00:19:16,054 --> 00:19:18,799 Probably best served by a 3PL. 326 00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:24,316 That's what they do, and I've said this all along. 327 00:19:24,316 --> 00:19:29,611 If all you do is resell another service, you're just a pure 328 00:19:29,691 --> 00:19:33,736 transactional broker and you're just offering LTL resell 329 00:19:33,797 --> 00:19:34,356 services. 330 00:19:34,356 --> 00:19:36,940 How much value is there really there? 331 00:19:36,940 --> 00:19:40,225 Tl resell services how much value is there really there? 332 00:19:40,225 --> 00:19:43,894 But when you can do something like pool distribution, you're 333 00:19:43,913 --> 00:19:45,122 managing the middle mile and you're putting it coordinating 334 00:19:45,142 --> 00:19:45,545 with the final mile. 335 00:19:45,545 --> 00:19:48,412 Oh, by the way, I've got a network of people who can do 336 00:19:48,451 --> 00:19:50,538 your assembly of your fitness equipment. 337 00:19:50,538 --> 00:19:54,475 That's where real value comes to play. 338 00:19:54,475 --> 00:19:59,338 And so, yeah, I'm always thinking what is it that makes 339 00:19:59,460 --> 00:20:03,730 sense, that adds more value to the equation or takes costs out 340 00:20:03,870 --> 00:20:07,639 of the equation, because that's got to be popular? 341 00:20:08,765 --> 00:20:12,472 Nate Shutes: And again, that is a different way of coming at a 342 00:20:12,533 --> 00:20:16,769 problem, and I think that's part of why our conversations that 343 00:20:16,911 --> 00:20:19,207 usually go well beyond their scheduled time. 344 00:20:19,207 --> 00:20:23,076 If we put 30 minutes on the calendar, we're talking for an 345 00:20:23,176 --> 00:20:23,336 hour. 346 00:20:23,336 --> 00:20:24,970 We put an hour, we talk for three. 347 00:20:24,970 --> 00:20:27,660 It's just the way of things, because I, because we're both 348 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:32,269 drawn to the similar parts of the market and, um, I, I agree, 349 00:20:32,289 --> 00:20:35,975 we are, you are a brother from another mother, for me as well. 350 00:20:36,375 --> 00:20:40,621 So you have this professional career portion of you. 351 00:20:40,621 --> 00:20:44,192 You're an executive, you learn the ropes and then you're 352 00:20:44,253 --> 00:20:45,115 responsible for things. 353 00:20:45,115 --> 00:20:48,030 Then you have a couple of other chapters where you're starting 354 00:20:48,091 --> 00:20:52,786 businesses, you're exiting businesses and after all that 355 00:20:52,846 --> 00:20:56,013 time now you still are an owner, but you have somebody else 356 00:20:56,374 --> 00:20:57,716 running five string. 357 00:20:57,716 --> 00:20:59,747 What is that process? 358 00:20:59,747 --> 00:21:01,933 What has it been like for you? 359 00:21:01,933 --> 00:21:05,485 Not not technically or not financially, and reviewing 360 00:21:05,585 --> 00:21:09,355 dashboards remotely and all that , but what has it meant for you 361 00:21:09,475 --> 00:21:14,729 to have to let go of the vision that you maybe started it with? 362 00:21:14,729 --> 00:21:17,836 And the next generation is coming in and they share a lot 363 00:21:17,856 --> 00:21:21,533 of it, I'm sure, but they're also passionate and they see a 364 00:21:21,573 --> 00:21:22,876 couple of things that maybe you don't. 365 00:21:22,876 --> 00:21:27,235 So how do you transition from active and in the business to 366 00:21:27,536 --> 00:21:28,337 more of a chairman role. 367 00:21:30,065 --> 00:21:30,812 Jim Bramlett: Yeah, great question. 368 00:21:30,812 --> 00:21:35,312 I think you know, I think every entrepreneur faces this, 369 00:21:35,712 --> 00:21:38,097 because I believe every entrepreneur has their vision. 370 00:21:38,097 --> 00:21:41,049 This is how it should be, this is how it should work. 371 00:21:41,049 --> 00:21:47,154 But as you grow you have to cede authority to some other 372 00:21:47,195 --> 00:21:51,669 folks who might think slightly differently, and that becomes 373 00:21:51,809 --> 00:21:52,192 hard. 374 00:21:52,192 --> 00:21:57,938 And so I joke that I like being married. 375 00:21:58,605 --> 00:22:04,898 And the story is my wife retired about a year after I started 376 00:22:04,958 --> 00:22:09,776 FiveStream and when she retired she started poking at me. 377 00:22:09,776 --> 00:22:13,074 Remember all those things we're going to go do in our golden 378 00:22:13,114 --> 00:22:13,475 years? 379 00:22:13,475 --> 00:22:17,393 You know, and, like I said, I've been married almost 48 380 00:22:17,413 --> 00:22:18,336 years now, so I like it. 381 00:22:18,336 --> 00:22:23,275 And to appease her, because I'm in the grind man, you know, you 382 00:22:23,275 --> 00:22:27,292 know how it is, and everybody who's out there today probably 383 00:22:27,332 --> 00:22:29,865 knows how it is in the logistics transportation space, you're 384 00:22:29,885 --> 00:22:32,014 working, working, working, working. 385 00:22:32,014 --> 00:22:39,959 And I finally decided that yeah , I want to take a different 386 00:22:39,999 --> 00:22:40,338 course. 387 00:22:40,338 --> 00:22:45,016 And so I found people to take it over and yet have me become 388 00:22:45,056 --> 00:22:46,138 more of an advisor. 389 00:22:46,138 --> 00:22:50,056 So I wasn't totally out of it, but I had the seed to control. 390 00:22:50,056 --> 00:22:53,932 They make the decisions now, and that was hard because I was 391 00:22:53,952 --> 00:22:58,029 the one making all the decisions until that time, and that's a 392 00:22:58,371 --> 00:23:03,034 different position to be in but I've transitioned. 393 00:23:03,365 --> 00:23:09,337 But you know what's funny, nate, is when I gave that up and I 394 00:23:09,398 --> 00:23:11,613 say, well, I kind of tried retirement but I flunked. 395 00:23:11,613 --> 00:23:16,928 I was three months away from the day-to-day and I'm playing 396 00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:22,130 some golf and tennis and maybe a little pickleball and maybe a 397 00:23:22,170 --> 00:23:25,176 little banjo, but there's no purpose in that. 398 00:23:25,176 --> 00:23:27,987 And so I'm a guy who's got to have some purpose. 399 00:23:27,987 --> 00:23:32,138 And so I got contacted by Vistage, which is the world's 400 00:23:33,442 --> 00:23:37,931 leading, largest business leader peer group organization, and 401 00:23:37,951 --> 00:23:40,776 they wanted to have another group formed in Kansas City and 402 00:23:40,796 --> 00:23:42,558 thought I'd be a good candidate to lead that. 403 00:23:42,558 --> 00:23:44,572 I saw a purpose there. 404 00:23:44,572 --> 00:23:49,470 And now that's what I'm doing and I love it because I'm still 405 00:23:49,891 --> 00:23:53,898 involved in the business world, not necessarily totally 406 00:23:53,938 --> 00:23:55,120 transportation, logistics. 407 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,670 I'm getting to learn so much from all other types of leaders 408 00:23:59,511 --> 00:24:03,198 and what they face and challenge all the time, so I really, 409 00:24:03,218 --> 00:24:04,100 really enjoy that. 410 00:24:25,566 --> 00:24:26,967 Is business business at the end of the day? 411 00:24:26,967 --> 00:24:27,768 Does it not matter? 412 00:24:27,768 --> 00:24:30,509 Or is having unique industry insight an advantage? 413 00:24:30,509 --> 00:24:33,253 How do you think about what's universal and what's not? 414 00:24:33,253 --> 00:24:35,696 I had a five-star general. 415 00:24:35,696 --> 00:24:39,840 Come talk to my leadership group and I said, okay, tell me 416 00:24:39,860 --> 00:24:42,221 the difference between leading in the military versus leading 417 00:24:42,302 --> 00:24:47,571 in public or private company, and he says leadership of people 418 00:24:47,571 --> 00:24:49,856 is all the same and that's what we're really doing. 419 00:24:49,856 --> 00:24:53,368 We're leading people and they handle the processes and they 420 00:24:53,649 --> 00:24:54,910 handle the processes. 421 00:24:54,910 --> 00:24:59,715 But when you can inspire people and get them all in the same 422 00:25:00,095 --> 00:25:04,580 line to do the same thing for a common purpose, that's what 423 00:25:04,620 --> 00:25:06,041 really leadership is all about. 424 00:25:06,041 --> 00:25:12,276 Yeah, and as I coach these leaders, I say look, I got an 425 00:25:12,316 --> 00:25:13,999 aerospace manufacturing leader. 426 00:25:13,999 --> 00:25:18,109 I don't know anything about aerospace manufacturing, I don't 427 00:25:18,109 --> 00:25:23,176 need to, but he faces some of the same challenges, be it 428 00:25:23,336 --> 00:25:25,679 marketing, be it gosh. 429 00:25:25,679 --> 00:25:26,539 How do I think about AI? 430 00:25:45,368 --> 00:25:46,170 Nate Shutes: How do I think about culture? 431 00:25:46,170 --> 00:25:46,931 How do I inspire my team? 432 00:25:46,931 --> 00:25:47,432 All of that? 433 00:25:47,432 --> 00:25:48,173 How do I retain my key employees? 434 00:25:48,173 --> 00:25:50,538 It's so much of that that is very common for any leader. 435 00:25:50,538 --> 00:25:52,141 When you look back on your own career. 436 00:25:52,141 --> 00:25:53,443 Do you wish you had a group like that yourself? 437 00:25:53,443 --> 00:25:53,825 Oh my God. 438 00:25:57,924 --> 00:25:58,749 Jim Bramlett: Did you have mentors that were there and 439 00:25:58,769 --> 00:25:59,753 advisors that were on the sidelines to help you? 440 00:25:59,753 --> 00:26:00,476 No, I didn't, and I regret that . 441 00:26:00,476 --> 00:26:04,971 When I started FreightProcom in 1999, I joke that my leadership 442 00:26:04,971 --> 00:26:09,173 experience to that date was I was a senior class president in 443 00:26:09,212 --> 00:26:11,793 my high school it had 12 students in it. 444 00:26:11,793 --> 00:26:13,871 That's not leadership. 445 00:26:13,871 --> 00:26:19,389 So I come into this and I'm the visionary and I now have a 446 00:26:19,429 --> 00:26:21,134 board of directors because we raised some capital. 447 00:26:21,134 --> 00:26:25,336 The capital sources were the board. 448 00:26:25,336 --> 00:26:26,770 Now I got to report to them. 449 00:26:26,770 --> 00:26:31,833 I've never done that before and I've got 30 people. 450 00:26:31,833 --> 00:26:36,659 Never led that before and I made a ton of mistakes. 451 00:26:36,659 --> 00:26:40,480 Never led that before and I made a ton of mistakes. 452 00:26:45,086 --> 00:26:46,391 Nate Shutes: You know I learned very quickly that you don't take 453 00:26:46,391 --> 00:26:47,918 all your challenges and issues to the board because they'll 454 00:26:47,938 --> 00:26:49,001 just say we don't have the right guy in the chair. 455 00:26:49,022 --> 00:26:49,545 Jim Bramlett: You're there to solve them. 456 00:26:49,545 --> 00:26:51,049 They're there to listen and ask good questions. 457 00:26:51,049 --> 00:26:57,905 It became very lonely and I made a ton of mistakes and I 458 00:26:57,967 --> 00:27:02,417 look back today and go man, I wish I had peers to lean on. 459 00:27:02,417 --> 00:27:06,010 You know, and you know, the last person who wanted to hear 460 00:27:06,051 --> 00:27:08,898 about my struggles and trials was my wife. 461 00:27:08,898 --> 00:27:13,388 She doesn't want to hear that, and there are things you can't 462 00:27:13,448 --> 00:27:14,711 share with your team. 463 00:27:14,711 --> 00:27:19,318 You know, even though you might call them family and team, 464 00:27:20,446 --> 00:27:27,038 they've got their agenda and I've got mine, and so, yeah, I 465 00:27:27,057 --> 00:27:27,880 reflect back and go. 466 00:27:29,106 --> 00:27:32,475 It's always better, and that's why I encourage any leader to be 467 00:27:32,475 --> 00:27:34,467 part of another group, something bigger. 468 00:27:34,467 --> 00:27:38,517 You got to vent and you've got to constantly be learning. 469 00:27:38,517 --> 00:27:42,735 I believe leaders are lifetime learners and they're curious. 470 00:27:42,735 --> 00:27:47,788 And well, you're going to learn a lot from other people, and 471 00:27:47,869 --> 00:27:51,379 especially if they're in a similar role not industry, but 472 00:27:52,041 --> 00:27:55,028 industry too but if they're in another role, you're going to 473 00:27:55,088 --> 00:27:55,690 learn a lot. 474 00:27:55,690 --> 00:28:00,389 So attach yourself to others, be it mentors, be it coaches, be 475 00:28:00,389 --> 00:28:06,479 it peer groups, mastermind group, I don't care what you 476 00:28:06,538 --> 00:28:08,971 call it but when you're attached to other people, it's going to 477 00:28:09,011 --> 00:28:10,948 make you a better person going to make you a better leader. 478 00:28:12,010 --> 00:28:13,926 Nate Shutes: So eventually you probably could have written a 479 00:28:13,966 --> 00:28:17,536 book on all the things what not to do Be too big. 480 00:28:17,536 --> 00:28:20,951 And then one day you decided that you did want to write a 481 00:28:20,993 --> 00:28:21,173 book. 482 00:28:21,173 --> 00:28:23,869 I know you're the author of the book called Stop the Hassle and 483 00:28:23,869 --> 00:28:25,594 I think you're working on another book now. 484 00:28:25,594 --> 00:28:29,672 What is behind that, is it? 485 00:28:29,672 --> 00:28:34,730 I want to pass on the knowledge that I've gleaned as part of 486 00:28:34,809 --> 00:28:38,198 the next chapter of finding that purpose that you mentioned. 487 00:28:38,845 --> 00:28:39,606 Jim Bramlett: Yeah. 488 00:28:39,606 --> 00:28:44,488 So one thing I tell all my leaders in my peer group if 489 00:28:44,508 --> 00:28:46,552 you're going to learn, you got to be vulnerable. 490 00:28:46,552 --> 00:28:51,449 So I'm going to be vulnerable with you and your audience, and 491 00:28:51,489 --> 00:28:52,770 I profess this in my book. 492 00:28:52,770 --> 00:29:04,186 My very first company I started I was a senior in college and I 493 00:29:04,186 --> 00:29:06,792 went to college in Springfield, missouri, and they had this. 494 00:29:06,792 --> 00:29:08,757 They have this restaurant that sold cashew chicken. 495 00:29:08,757 --> 00:29:11,644 I'd say it's a Chinese dish, but it really isn't. 496 00:29:11,644 --> 00:29:15,662 It's just little fried chicken nuggets with an oyster gravy and 497 00:29:15,662 --> 00:29:18,173 some cashews and onions on it and over rice. 498 00:29:18,173 --> 00:29:20,328 But very popular. 499 00:29:20,328 --> 00:29:21,653 I mean very popular. 500 00:29:21,653 --> 00:29:23,076 It was probably one every mile you went. 501 00:29:23,076 --> 00:29:26,432 Well, I grew up 100 miles down the road in a little town called 502 00:29:26,432 --> 00:29:26,794 Rolla. 503 00:29:26,794 --> 00:29:27,865 We didn't have that there. 504 00:29:27,865 --> 00:29:31,755 So my roommate and I decided well, we're going to start this 505 00:29:31,815 --> 00:29:35,269 restaurant in Rolla, we'll just hire a manager and we'll just 506 00:29:35,308 --> 00:29:36,110 collect the checks. 507 00:29:36,110 --> 00:29:40,438 And you can imagine how it ended. 508 00:29:40,438 --> 00:29:41,519 And it did end that way. 509 00:29:41,519 --> 00:29:48,397 And then five years later I say , hey, I'm in the trucking 510 00:29:48,457 --> 00:29:50,830 industry, I know trucking, I'm going to start a trucking 511 00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:53,651 company and that didn't end well . 512 00:29:53,651 --> 00:29:59,094 And so I tell people today just because you like to cook 513 00:30:01,218 --> 00:30:04,368 doesn't mean you should start a restaurant Just because you like 514 00:30:04,368 --> 00:30:08,718 working with grass and flowers, don't start a landscaping 515 00:30:08,758 --> 00:30:09,118 company. 516 00:30:09,118 --> 00:30:13,232 So what happened was later in my career, after I learned these 517 00:30:13,232 --> 00:30:17,330 really hard and expensive lessons, I got asked to speak at 518 00:30:17,330 --> 00:30:18,956 a logistics conference. 519 00:30:18,956 --> 00:30:20,949 I said what would you like me to talk on? 520 00:30:20,949 --> 00:30:22,713 Don't care. 521 00:30:22,713 --> 00:30:27,968 And so I thought, okay, I want to reflect and do something 522 00:30:28,008 --> 00:30:28,649 creative. 523 00:30:28,649 --> 00:30:33,678 And so I started reflecting on my career and what's happening 524 00:30:34,785 --> 00:30:37,408 in the industry, with 3PLs coming out and all this. 525 00:30:37,408 --> 00:30:44,276 And that was the genesis of me discovering the real secret to 526 00:30:46,679 --> 00:30:47,881 organic growth. 527 00:30:47,881 --> 00:30:53,286 And what I did? 528 00:30:53,286 --> 00:30:54,789 I studied Amazon and Netflix and Uber and I came up with the 529 00:30:54,830 --> 00:30:59,506 common formula that they use, and my first book was called the 530 00:30:59,506 --> 00:31:02,786 Unconventional Thinking of Dominant Companies, and it's 531 00:31:02,826 --> 00:31:08,006 100% about those monsters that shot to the top, beat their 532 00:31:08,066 --> 00:31:11,980 competition very quickly became unicorns and a few local Kansas 533 00:31:12,019 --> 00:31:15,068 City companies that I think do the same thing, and they all use 534 00:31:15,068 --> 00:31:15,692 this formula. 535 00:31:15,692 --> 00:31:16,450 They don't talk about it. 536 00:31:16,450 --> 00:31:17,472 I don't even know if they're really aware of it, but the same 537 00:31:17,472 --> 00:31:18,003 thing, and they all use this formula. 538 00:31:18,003 --> 00:31:18,282 They don't talk about it. 539 00:31:18,282 --> 00:31:19,832 I don't even know if they're really aware of it, but they do 540 00:31:19,893 --> 00:31:20,093 this. 541 00:31:20,093 --> 00:31:25,008 And so in the second book Stop the Hassle I decided to write 542 00:31:25,028 --> 00:31:29,496 that book about what every company should be doing, both 543 00:31:29,576 --> 00:31:34,591 from a what I call product point of view and a cultural point of 544 00:31:34,591 --> 00:31:36,474 view, and real quickly. 545 00:31:36,474 --> 00:31:36,995 It's this. 546 00:31:37,536 --> 00:31:41,670 I believe you and I, and everybody listening to this, are 547 00:31:41,670 --> 00:31:42,211 buyers. 548 00:31:42,211 --> 00:31:45,786 Now, we may not be professional buyers, but we buy things every 549 00:31:45,786 --> 00:31:46,086 day. 550 00:31:46,086 --> 00:31:50,995 We make a buying decision and I believe there's a formula, a 551 00:31:51,036 --> 00:31:54,826 psychology that we use, and it involves we're looking for 552 00:31:54,905 --> 00:31:59,470 convenience, we want to save time, effort, we want it simple 553 00:31:59,509 --> 00:31:59,970 and easy. 554 00:31:59,970 --> 00:32:05,173 When I pull off the interstate for gas, it's always 319.9 at 555 00:32:05,234 --> 00:32:07,516 every station at that interchange. 556 00:32:07,516 --> 00:32:11,739 Well, am I going to go left across the interchange through a 557 00:32:11,739 --> 00:32:14,160 couple lights to the gas station on the left or am I 558 00:32:14,180 --> 00:32:16,042 going to stay on the right-hand side so I can get back? 559 00:32:16,042 --> 00:32:18,383 I'm going to do that because it saves me time and effort. 560 00:32:18,383 --> 00:32:23,490 That's a natural thing tendency we have. 561 00:32:23,490 --> 00:32:27,158 I want simple, I want easy, I don't want a more complex life. 562 00:32:27,158 --> 00:32:32,011 So when we're out looking, we want that convenience. 563 00:32:32,011 --> 00:32:34,557 We want a competitive price. 564 00:32:34,557 --> 00:32:37,288 We don't necessarily want lowest price all the time, but 565 00:32:37,328 --> 00:32:38,151 we're trying to save money. 566 00:32:38,151 --> 00:32:42,670 But what we really want is transparency, and this goes back 567 00:32:42,670 --> 00:32:43,251 to LTL. 568 00:32:43,251 --> 00:32:47,388 I want to know what it's going to cost before I make that 569 00:32:47,428 --> 00:32:48,390 purchase decision. 570 00:32:48,390 --> 00:32:51,876 That's why I like TMSs now, because I can tell exactly what 571 00:32:51,978 --> 00:32:52,605 my cost should be. 572 00:32:52,605 --> 00:32:54,070 But we like that transparency. 573 00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:56,416 That's why we don't like working with lawyers. 574 00:32:56,416 --> 00:33:00,748 We know it's $300 an hour but we never know how many hours the 575 00:33:00,748 --> 00:33:03,570 airlines oh what $200 charge. 576 00:33:03,570 --> 00:33:04,230 I didn't know. 577 00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:05,451 Oh, it's in the fine print. 578 00:33:05,451 --> 00:33:14,038 I was in Vegas last weekend and my $125 room a night had a $49 579 00:33:18,341 --> 00:33:18,981 resort fee. 580 00:33:18,981 --> 00:33:20,182 What's that? 581 00:33:20,182 --> 00:33:22,126 Oh, you didn't. 582 00:33:22,126 --> 00:33:23,452 You know, that's in the fine print. 583 00:33:23,452 --> 00:33:24,990 I don't like fine print. 584 00:33:24,990 --> 00:33:26,404 Okay, so that transparency. 585 00:33:26,605 --> 00:33:30,720 Third, we like a great user experience, both in the buying 586 00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:32,245 process and the product itself. 587 00:33:32,245 --> 00:33:35,515 I want to be treated like I'm their only customer. 588 00:33:35,515 --> 00:33:37,882 If I have questions, I want them answered. 589 00:33:37,882 --> 00:33:39,968 I really don't want to talk to a bot. 590 00:33:39,968 --> 00:33:42,615 I want to talk to a human, because who knows where my 591 00:33:42,674 --> 00:33:45,705 questions are going to go and I've had too much frustration 592 00:33:45,825 --> 00:33:47,429 with bots taking me time and effort. 593 00:33:47,429 --> 00:33:52,659 But the product if it's a merchandise, I want durability, 594 00:33:52,745 --> 00:33:54,709 I want style, I want efficiency. 595 00:33:54,709 --> 00:33:59,699 If I'm dealing with a professional, you know, I want 596 00:34:02,229 --> 00:34:03,932 courteousness, professionalism. 597 00:34:03,932 --> 00:34:06,537 I want, you know, I like uniforms. 598 00:34:06,537 --> 00:34:09,407 If I'm going into a retail store, I like bright lights, 599 00:34:09,487 --> 00:34:11,110 clean, organized. 600 00:34:11,110 --> 00:34:13,615 That all creates great user experience. 601 00:34:13,655 --> 00:34:14,739 And then fourth is trust. 602 00:34:14,739 --> 00:34:19,773 When we make a buying decision, we buyers have in our mind what 603 00:34:19,773 --> 00:34:21,117 it is we're going to get. 604 00:34:21,117 --> 00:34:23,552 That's our experience, especially true if there's a 605 00:34:23,612 --> 00:34:28,311 brand promise, like when it absolutely positively has to be 606 00:34:28,351 --> 00:34:28,951 there overnight. 607 00:34:28,951 --> 00:34:30,174 Well, guess what? 608 00:34:30,174 --> 00:34:32,386 I expect it to be there overnight. 609 00:34:32,386 --> 00:34:35,775 That's your brand promise, but we have this expectation and we 610 00:34:35,815 --> 00:34:36,576 don't get it. 611 00:34:36,576 --> 00:34:38,989 Now I can't trust them ever again. 612 00:34:38,989 --> 00:34:43,317 Okay, and I'm sure, in logistics, when somebody's late 613 00:34:43,357 --> 00:34:46,611 with a shipment or damages a shipment, how do I trust them 614 00:34:46,670 --> 00:34:47,132 going forward? 615 00:34:47,132 --> 00:34:48,013 Do they have a guarantee? 616 00:34:48,013 --> 00:34:48,934 What kind of guarantee? 617 00:34:48,934 --> 00:34:50,218 Are there warranties? 618 00:34:50,218 --> 00:34:51,299 Are there free returns? 619 00:34:51,299 --> 00:34:54,873 Are there testimonials where my peers are telling me, yeah, I 620 00:34:54,913 --> 00:34:56,416 had a great experience, bad experience? 621 00:34:56,416 --> 00:35:00,269 So bottom line is, when you can do all four of those 622 00:35:00,789 --> 00:35:06,478 convenience, transparent, competitive pricing, great 623 00:35:06,638 --> 00:35:10,447 buying and user experience and trust I as a buyer don't have 624 00:35:10,487 --> 00:35:12,534 any excuses not to buy from you. 625 00:35:13,246 --> 00:35:17,052 But the problem is most companies have some sort of 626 00:35:17,112 --> 00:35:21,768 trade-off, a conscious trade-off , and I use Walmart Walmart, you 627 00:35:21,768 --> 00:35:25,568 know, everyday low prices, rollback America, but I hope you 628 00:35:25,568 --> 00:35:26,572 like checking yourself out. 629 00:35:26,572 --> 00:35:29,092 I don't find that a particularly appealing 630 00:35:29,253 --> 00:35:29,815 experience. 631 00:35:29,815 --> 00:35:35,715 They're not maybe as well lit, not as well organized as, say, a 632 00:35:35,715 --> 00:35:39,293 Target, right, I think there's just a little different user 633 00:35:39,374 --> 00:35:39,795 experience. 634 00:35:39,795 --> 00:35:44,347 Dollar stores pretty cheap stuff, but oh my God, there 635 00:35:44,568 --> 00:35:47,373 might be one person working there and they don't have 636 00:35:47,432 --> 00:35:48,034 storerooms. 637 00:35:48,034 --> 00:35:50,880 It's all cluttery, it's a nightmare. 638 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:51,827 Jiffy Lube. 639 00:35:51,827 --> 00:35:55,595 Their tradeoff is we're going to change our oil in 20 minutes, 640 00:35:55,595 --> 00:35:56,778 but it's going to come at a price. 641 00:35:56,778 --> 00:36:00,605 I can do it at Walmart for half the price twice the time, and 642 00:36:00,664 --> 00:36:03,950 so I believe they have these conscious tradeoffs. 643 00:36:03,970 --> 00:36:08,635 When you do that, you now have to appeal to somebody whose 644 00:36:08,775 --> 00:36:11,860 personal value system matches what you offer. 645 00:36:11,860 --> 00:36:16,753 Okay, now I can't tell you what yours is, nate, but my personal 646 00:36:16,753 --> 00:36:18,657 value system is time. 647 00:36:18,657 --> 00:36:23,737 I will pay a premium if you save me time. 648 00:36:23,737 --> 00:36:27,134 I believe time is our most precious commodity, not money. 649 00:36:27,134 --> 00:36:30,590 I can go to my financial planner and my banking accounts, 650 00:36:30,590 --> 00:36:31,653 tell you how much money I have. 651 00:36:31,653 --> 00:36:37,318 I can't tell you how much time I've got, so I believe time is 652 00:36:37,398 --> 00:36:38,081 our most precious. 653 00:36:38,081 --> 00:36:39,505 So that's how I make my decision. 654 00:36:40,728 --> 00:36:44,075 I've got a relative lives in a small town, about 15,000. 655 00:36:44,075 --> 00:36:45,719 There's two grocery stores and a Walmart. 656 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,095 She clips coupons every week and goes to all three to buy the 657 00:36:50,095 --> 00:36:54,875 sales and I'm going to guess she might save $20, $25 a week, 658 00:36:54,996 --> 00:36:56,800 but it takes her two, two and a half hours. 659 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,025 I'm not doing that. 660 00:36:58,025 --> 00:37:03,394 My time is more valuable, but that's her personal value system 661 00:37:03,394 --> 00:37:03,775 is money. 662 00:37:03,775 --> 00:37:06,072 I've got a friend who will only fly first class. 663 00:37:06,072 --> 00:37:11,927 They like that experience, okay , so we all have our personal 664 00:37:11,967 --> 00:37:18,518 value systems, but I claim that Amazon, uber, netflix they've 665 00:37:18,659 --> 00:37:22,304 used this formula to where hey, I don't have a excuse not to buy 666 00:37:22,304 --> 00:37:22,625 from them. 667 00:37:22,625 --> 00:37:26,075 So that's what I preach in my book. 668 00:37:26,075 --> 00:37:32,090 And the cultural side of that is this we all have competitors. 669 00:37:32,471 --> 00:37:35,538 Or said another way, a buyer has alternatives. 670 00:37:35,538 --> 00:37:40,356 Do I wash my own car or do I go to the car wash? 671 00:37:40,356 --> 00:37:44,193 Now, do I go to the car wash where I'm spraying it myself, or 672 00:37:44,193 --> 00:37:45,856 do I go through the drive-thru? 673 00:37:45,856 --> 00:37:52,075 Okay, so you know which one of those do I do? 674 00:37:52,075 --> 00:37:58,827 And so those alternatives, those competitors, need to know 675 00:37:58,967 --> 00:37:59,791 about each other. 676 00:37:59,791 --> 00:38:02,414 And I joke about this. 677 00:38:02,414 --> 00:38:04,672 I'm a big Kansas City Chiefs fan. 678 00:38:04,672 --> 00:38:08,090 I go listen, andy Reid doesn't show up on a Sunday morning and 679 00:38:08,110 --> 00:38:09,675 go, let's see who we play in this week. 680 00:38:09,675 --> 00:38:11,813 And what do they like to do? 681 00:38:11,813 --> 00:38:12,978 Do they run the ball? 682 00:38:12,978 --> 00:38:13,762 Do they pass the ball? 683 00:38:13,762 --> 00:38:14,445 What about defense? 684 00:38:14,445 --> 00:38:15,307 Are they playing zone? 685 00:38:15,307 --> 00:38:17,974 No, they study their competition. 686 00:38:17,974 --> 00:38:21,913 So I claim that every company should have an R&D function. 687 00:38:21,913 --> 00:38:22,816 Now that sounds funny. 688 00:38:22,816 --> 00:38:26,346 Not a pharmaceutical or scientific company, but R&D. 689 00:38:26,427 --> 00:38:30,494 I need you to be researching the alternative that a buyer has. 690 00:38:30,494 --> 00:38:34,931 How do you stack up from a convenience standpoint, how much 691 00:38:34,931 --> 00:38:36,335 time, effort, simple, easy. 692 00:38:36,335 --> 00:38:40,008 From a price standpoint, from a transparency, from a user 693 00:38:40,048 --> 00:38:43,874 experience, from a guarantee or trust? 694 00:38:43,874 --> 00:38:48,427 And if you don't stack up, be working on that because that's 695 00:38:48,467 --> 00:38:49,873 the excuse your buyers are using . 696 00:38:49,873 --> 00:38:52,291 Well, I don't go there because it's just not a good experience. 697 00:38:52,291 --> 00:38:53,233 I don't get waited on. 698 00:38:53,233 --> 00:38:56,911 It takes too much time and too much effort or they're just 699 00:38:56,971 --> 00:38:57,472 priced high. 700 00:38:57,472 --> 00:38:59,492 You get these buyer issues. 701 00:38:59,492 --> 00:39:02,592 So study your competition and constantly be working on that, 702 00:39:03,126 --> 00:39:06,106 because if you don't, that's where startups come to play. 703 00:39:07,086 --> 00:39:11,514 3pls came to play because it was too hard to figure out these 704 00:39:11,675 --> 00:39:14,980 LTL prices and rules. 705 00:39:14,980 --> 00:39:18,032 It's too hard, too much time. 706 00:39:18,032 --> 00:39:19,920 3pls said oh, we'll make it easier. 707 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,807 You want access to a TMS where you can rate, shop and create 708 00:39:22,827 --> 00:39:25,633 your own bills of lading and you just tell us what you need and 709 00:39:25,653 --> 00:39:27,876 we'll send a dry van or a flatbed or a free. 710 00:39:27,876 --> 00:39:30,421 Okay, make it easy. 711 00:39:30,421 --> 00:39:32,985 That's how that 3PL industry. 712 00:39:32,985 --> 00:39:37,456 So if you don't pay attention to what your buyers are looking 713 00:39:37,536 --> 00:39:37,717 for. 714 00:39:37,717 --> 00:39:40,309 You don't pay attention to what your competitors are doing. 715 00:39:40,309 --> 00:39:42,965 You're going to be the blockbuster and they're going to 716 00:39:42,965 --> 00:39:47,007 be the Netflix, or a Netflix is going to show up and say we 717 00:39:47,047 --> 00:39:48,932 found your weakness and we're going to exploit that. 718 00:39:48,932 --> 00:39:52,874 Well, that's a masterclass right there you just. 719 00:39:54,608 --> 00:39:58,206 Nate Shutes: I'm sure for those that are listening, sometimes 720 00:39:58,226 --> 00:40:01,096 it's really easy to get wrapped up in the day to day or just 721 00:40:01,115 --> 00:40:05,467 what the P&L shows in the last month end and or your latest big 722 00:40:05,467 --> 00:40:10,849 customer issue or or contract problem, you name it, and that's 723 00:40:10,849 --> 00:40:13,135 a part of running and owning a business, for sure. 724 00:40:13,135 --> 00:40:15,789 But there is also an opportunity to get on the 725 00:40:15,809 --> 00:40:20,258 balcony and instead of just asking, like, how should we be 726 00:40:20,298 --> 00:40:21,099 playing this game? 727 00:40:21,099 --> 00:40:23,633 It's, is this even the right game to be playing in the first 728 00:40:23,653 --> 00:40:23,874 place? 729 00:40:25,050 --> 00:40:25,291 Jim Bramlett: this game. 730 00:40:25,291 --> 00:40:27,503 Is this even the right game to be playing in the first place? 731 00:40:27,503 --> 00:40:32,691 Nate, I've been at this for over 40 years and for the 732 00:40:32,711 --> 00:40:33,896 companies I worked for, never once did I walk into a meeting 733 00:40:33,916 --> 00:40:35,143 and say, okay, we're going to talk about how many customers we 734 00:40:35,143 --> 00:40:37,809 gained last month and why, and then we're going to talk about 735 00:40:37,829 --> 00:40:39,394 how many customers we lost and why. 736 00:40:39,394 --> 00:40:41,547 Never, it was always. 737 00:40:41,547 --> 00:40:43,173 Well, here's our revenue. 738 00:40:43,173 --> 00:40:43,896 What was the budget? 739 00:40:43,896 --> 00:40:45,081 Oh, we're beating budget. 740 00:40:45,081 --> 00:40:45,684 We're losing budget. 741 00:40:45,684 --> 00:40:48,751 Okay, now here's our expenses oh, we're over in labor. 742 00:40:48,751 --> 00:40:49,797 We're going to have to do something about that. 743 00:40:49,797 --> 00:40:51,130 Now let's talk about our IT project. 744 00:40:51,130 --> 00:40:52,891 Me, me, me, we, we, we. 745 00:40:55,046 --> 00:41:01,532 One of my biggest heroes is Jeff Bezos, and, if anybody's 746 00:41:01,552 --> 00:41:06,472 looking for a really good book, the Everything Store is an 747 00:41:06,492 --> 00:41:07,304 awesome book and it's the Amazon story. 748 00:41:07,304 --> 00:41:12,195 When I started FreightProcom in 1999, Jeff had already started 749 00:41:12,277 --> 00:41:16,054 Amazon and he was a villain. 750 00:41:16,054 --> 00:41:20,065 He was a bumbling fool. 751 00:41:20,065 --> 00:41:23,655 I think he even made Time Magazine because he was such an 752 00:41:23,755 --> 00:41:28,054 idiot, Burning cash left and right, refusing to change his 753 00:41:28,175 --> 00:41:34,213 business model, and Wall Street was just castigizing him, saying 754 00:41:34,213 --> 00:41:36,418 what's he doing? 755 00:41:36,418 --> 00:41:40,597 Well, Jeff believes in putting the customer at the center of 756 00:41:40,637 --> 00:41:42,505 his universe and working everything backward. 757 00:41:42,505 --> 00:41:45,849 Matter of fact, their number one leadership principles are 758 00:41:45,909 --> 00:41:52,057 leaders need to obsess about the customers, not just care obsess 759 00:41:52,057 --> 00:41:52,057 . 760 00:41:52,057 --> 00:41:58,394 Jeff's whole theory was if we satisfy the customer, take care 761 00:41:58,434 --> 00:42:01,465 of the customer, everything else will fall in place. 762 00:42:01,465 --> 00:42:03,791 Okay, and I believe that. 763 00:42:04,371 --> 00:42:08,967 I believe that I used to watch the show the Profit with Marcus 764 00:42:09,048 --> 00:42:12,896 Limonis and he would go in and research a company and it was 765 00:42:12,956 --> 00:42:15,648 always people, process and product. 766 00:42:15,648 --> 00:42:17,594 I also believe purpose is another P. 767 00:42:17,594 --> 00:42:21,307 That's important, but that's how he would evaluate and I tell 768 00:42:21,307 --> 00:42:24,731 people look, if the product isn't right meaning 769 00:42:24,951 --> 00:42:28,715 customer-centric, with all the four criteria if the product 770 00:42:29,235 --> 00:42:33,280 isn't right, I'm not sure it matters about your people and 771 00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:34,001 your process. 772 00:42:34,001 --> 00:42:40,114 So if the product is right and it's meeting the needs of the 773 00:42:40,273 --> 00:42:43,780 buyer, then it's probably going to work. 774 00:42:43,780 --> 00:42:48,691 Then go work on your people and your process, but focus on what 775 00:42:48,691 --> 00:42:50,076 the buyer is looking for. 776 00:42:50,076 --> 00:42:53,295 Don't start that restaurant because you like to cook. 777 00:42:53,295 --> 00:42:56,796 If you're thinking about starting a company, start here. 778 00:42:56,796 --> 00:43:01,293 Go find a business or an industry in your neighborhood, I 779 00:43:01,293 --> 00:43:01,875 don't care. 780 00:43:01,875 --> 00:43:03,298 That has a weakness. 781 00:43:03,298 --> 00:43:05,351 They're not very convenient. 782 00:43:05,351 --> 00:43:08,171 They don't give a good user experience, they're priced too 783 00:43:08,231 --> 00:43:08,452 high. 784 00:43:08,452 --> 00:43:09,856 I can't trust them. 785 00:43:09,856 --> 00:43:11,327 They don't have guarantees. 786 00:43:11,327 --> 00:43:14,432 That's a weakness you can leverage. 787 00:43:14,432 --> 00:43:19,119 That's what I preach now. 788 00:43:20,447 --> 00:43:25,798 Nate Shutes: Well, on that note, we can't record for two hours. 789 00:43:25,798 --> 00:43:29,713 I would like to, because I think this is really valuable 790 00:43:29,793 --> 00:43:32,999 content and people need to be reminded of it. 791 00:43:32,999 --> 00:43:40,889 So how will you know when you're done, when you have met 792 00:43:40,929 --> 00:43:43,076 the purpose that you're seeking? 793 00:43:50,025 --> 00:43:50,826 Jim Bramlett: I don't know if I'll ever be done. 794 00:43:50,826 --> 00:43:52,990 You know, what I enjoy today more than anything is helping 795 00:43:53,010 --> 00:43:53,171 others. 796 00:43:53,171 --> 00:43:55,315 I went, you know I went through . 797 00:43:55,315 --> 00:44:00,909 A mentor once told me, before you can succeed, you must fail, 798 00:44:01,771 --> 00:44:05,258 and his point was you won't know what success is if you don't 799 00:44:05,298 --> 00:44:07,887 know what failure is not fail right. 800 00:44:07,887 --> 00:44:11,795 Those first two companies I failed, and I've failed more 801 00:44:11,835 --> 00:44:18,313 than that, and so my goal in life now is do anything I can to 802 00:44:18,313 --> 00:44:21,157 help anybody else from failing. 803 00:44:21,157 --> 00:44:25,512 You know, call it servant leadership or whatever, but I 804 00:44:25,552 --> 00:44:27,487 don't think I'll ever be done at that. 805 00:44:27,487 --> 00:44:30,815 I'm not the kind of guy to sit on the porch and watch the world 806 00:44:30,815 --> 00:44:31,275 go by. 807 00:44:31,275 --> 00:44:33,409 I got to be involved in something, and the more I can 808 00:44:33,450 --> 00:44:35,615 help anybody else, the better I feel about it. 809 00:44:36,525 --> 00:44:38,309 Nate Shutes: Well, I think you're in the right place, then. 810 00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:42,552 You're where you're meant to be helping support other 811 00:44:43,155 --> 00:44:45,744 entrepreneurs on their journey, because you're further down the 812 00:44:45,804 --> 00:44:50,072 road than they are, and this has been helpful for me as well. 813 00:44:50,072 --> 00:44:54,829 Jim, I've learned a new framework for the four Ps. 814 00:44:54,829 --> 00:44:55,811 I like that a lot. 815 00:44:55,811 --> 00:44:57,894 I'm going to dig into that some more. 816 00:44:57,894 --> 00:45:01,755 Where can people reach out to you or where can they find out 817 00:45:01,815 --> 00:45:04,164 more about what you're doing and what you're writing? 818 00:45:05,371 --> 00:45:06,434 Jim Bramlett: to you or where can they find out more about 819 00:45:06,456 --> 00:45:08,405 what you're doing and what you're writing? 820 00:45:08,405 --> 00:45:13,367 Yeah, my website is jimbramlettcom. 821 00:45:13,367 --> 00:45:15,331 I will be launching a new website in the near future 822 00:45:15,351 --> 00:45:15,871 called Strategies to Grow. 823 00:45:15,871 --> 00:45:16,472 I'm on LinkedIn. 824 00:45:16,472 --> 00:45:19,639 I'm an active LinkedIn, so hit me up there. 825 00:45:19,639 --> 00:45:23,108 I put quite a bit of content out there and then I'm working 826 00:45:23,168 --> 00:45:23,769 on a course. 827 00:45:23,769 --> 00:45:27,835 I'm working on an online course so that people can learn this 828 00:45:27,956 --> 00:45:31,621 formula and how it applies to them. 829 00:45:31,621 --> 00:45:34,392 So that's how they can find me and I'm happy to help anybody I 830 00:45:34,452 --> 00:45:34,753 can. 831 00:45:35,715 --> 00:45:36,264 Nate Shutes: Right on Well. 832 00:45:36,264 --> 00:45:38,472 Again, jim, thank you for sharing your story, for 833 00:45:38,572 --> 00:45:41,570 unpacking it and for the help that you're definitely going to 834 00:45:41,590 --> 00:45:44,697 be offering to others as they listen to your journey. 835 00:45:44,697 --> 00:45:46,309 We are all rooting for you, my friend. 836 00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:49,076 Jim Bramlett: Nate, thanks for having me buddy Take care 837 00:45:49,096 --> 00:45:49,257 Brother. 838 00:45:53,266 --> 00:45:55,211 Nate Shutes: Thanks for listening to another episode of 839 00:45:55,231 --> 00:45:58,146 the Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics, and a special thank 840 00:45:58,166 --> 00:46:00,954 you to our sponsors and the team behind the scenes who make it 841 00:46:00,994 --> 00:46:01,577 all possible. 842 00:46:01,577 --> 00:46:05,054 Be sure to like, follow or subscribe to the podcast to get 843 00:46:05,074 --> 00:46:05,876 the latest updates. 844 00:46:05,876 --> 00:46:08,909 To learn more about the show and connect with the growing 845 00:46:08,970 --> 00:46:12,030 community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounderscom. 846 00:46:12,030 --> 00:46:16,170 And, of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to 847 00:46:16,170 --> 00:46:16,913 share their stories.