WEBVTT 00:00:01.762 --> 00:00:08.134 Hello and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 00:00:08.134 --> 00:00:12.570 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and inspiring others to take the leap. 00:00:13.699 --> 00:00:16.510 It's a roller coaster ride that you might ultimately fail. 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:19.068 That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 00:00:19.782 --> 00:00:20.646 It was very hard. 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:23.047 It truly is building a legacy. 00:00:23.047 --> 00:00:28.565 The more life you live, the more wisdom you have, because we are where we're supposed to be. 00:00:28.565 --> 00:00:30.251 Kind of answering the call. 00:00:30.251 --> 00:00:33.209 Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 00:00:33.209 --> 00:00:35.134 I'm your host, nate Shoots. 00:00:35.134 --> 00:00:38.180 Let's build something together from the ground up. 00:00:38.180 --> 00:00:43.424 Hello everybody, and welcome back to the show. 00:00:44.024 --> 00:01:09.909 We are in season three, doing what we have been doing for a couple of years now going deep into people's personal stories and backgrounds on why they chose to start companies in the supply chain industry and what keeps them going, what are the lessons they've learned along the way, and how can we tap into all of that collective knowledge and not only educate and inform, but a big part of what we try to do here is also to inspire. 00:01:09.909 --> 00:01:23.162 For entrepreneurs that are deep into their journey or just beginning, it is a roller coaster ride like no other, and so hearing the stories of others that are going through that same experience often offers them a lot of encouragement. 00:01:23.162 --> 00:01:36.766 And then I also get outreach pretty regularly from somebody who says I'm working a job or I have an idea and I'm trying to come up with a way that I can launch this business, and I've got a bunch of questions. 00:01:36.766 --> 00:01:44.629 And well, entrepreneurship is about asking questions endlessly and trying to find a good answer to it. 00:01:44.629 --> 00:01:53.081 So I often tell them I don't have great answers for you, but I do have a library of content of folks that have tried it. 00:01:53.081 --> 00:01:58.483 Not everybody has succeeded, but they've all said it was worth it, and so that's what this whole thing is about. 00:01:58.563 --> 00:02:07.805 So I hope to offer some encouragement and some inspiration today by unpacking the story of Jim Bramlett, who is the CEO of Five String Solutions. 00:02:07.805 --> 00:02:12.033 He has a storied career in the logistics industry. 00:02:12.033 --> 00:02:15.546 I'm going to have him unpack a little bit of that for us. 00:02:15.546 --> 00:02:27.542 But there are times in your life where you meet somebody and you say, oh my goodness, we have mirror image experiences in a lot of different places, but also just deep interests in a lot of the same places. 00:02:27.542 --> 00:02:29.948 So we might be talking for two and a half hours today. 00:02:29.948 --> 00:02:30.669 We'll see. 00:02:30.669 --> 00:02:41.586 But first, jim, thank you so much for coming on the show, and would you mind just doing a brief introduction of what your career has looked like so far? 00:02:42.308 --> 00:02:43.993 Sure, hey, thanks for having me. 00:02:43.993 --> 00:02:45.518 It's fun. 00:02:45.518 --> 00:02:51.427 I do consider you a brother from another mother and you and I have so much in common. 00:02:51.427 --> 00:03:04.751 So I'm an old you can see the gray hair if you're watching this but my logistics transportation career spans a little over 42 years. 00:03:04.751 --> 00:03:08.756 It wasn't exactly the first job I got out of school. 00:03:08.756 --> 00:03:27.061 I took a sales job for a consumer goods company, but after a year it just wasn't my thing and I ended up getting hired as a management trainee for Roadway Express at a break bulk in Springfield, missouri. 00:03:28.081 --> 00:03:29.084 That's where I went to school. 00:03:29.084 --> 00:03:34.393 And, god, I found it so fascinating. 00:03:34.393 --> 00:03:35.875 And here's what got me. 00:03:35.875 --> 00:03:47.342 I mean, very early on I'd see a pallet of freight and I'd say, oh wait, a minute, two days ago that was in Atlanta, and two, you know, two days from now that's going to be in LA. 00:03:47.342 --> 00:03:53.774 God, look at all the things that have to happen to make that transpire. 00:03:53.774 --> 00:03:58.588 And that just fascinated me to no end. 00:03:59.270 --> 00:04:04.325 And so I began my journey and I've been in it ever since in many different aspects. 00:04:04.325 --> 00:04:08.401 I've studied LTL, and I mean studied. 00:04:08.401 --> 00:04:11.287 I've gone through the rules, tariffs, I've gone through lots. 00:04:11.287 --> 00:04:24.144 So I kind of always kind of centered myself around LTL and I've started in my career seven different companies four for myself, three for others. 00:04:24.144 --> 00:04:25.709 I've started a division. 00:04:25.709 --> 00:04:47.889 I'm proud to say that I was the first guy to start a time-definite service in the LTL industry for yellow back in the day, and until that time it was a one trick pony. 00:04:47.889 --> 00:04:50.687 We are only doing oh, you want to get Chicago to Atlanta? 00:04:50.687 --> 00:04:51.951 It's three days, that's all you get. 00:04:51.951 --> 00:04:58.769 So an expedited time definite service and then the others in the industry kind of copied that. 00:04:58.769 --> 00:05:00.086 So I had a lot of fun doing that. 00:05:01.281 --> 00:05:07.074 But I've always been a little bit creative, starting new companies, new offerings, new divisions. 00:05:07.074 --> 00:05:09.702 I just always so. 00:05:09.702 --> 00:05:12.812 Don't put me in a factory, in a production line, that's just not my gig. 00:05:12.812 --> 00:05:22.413 But I've had a lot of fun doing that and I'm still a shareholder in my last company I founded. 00:05:22.413 --> 00:05:24.112 I'm no longer active in the day-to-day. 00:05:24.112 --> 00:05:32.053 I let the others do that because I'm doing executive coaching now, running a peer group, and I love that. 00:05:32.053 --> 00:05:33.322 I'm a business nerd. 00:05:33.322 --> 00:05:43.151 I love learning how businesses work, the challenges they face, the wins they experience and all of that. 00:05:43.151 --> 00:05:45.836 I've a couple books, kind of, about that. 00:05:45.836 --> 00:05:52.514 I have a really strong theory about organic business growth and I'm out promoting that all the time. 00:05:52.514 --> 00:05:58.124 I love the journeys of any entrepreneur that's brave enough to take. 00:05:58.124 --> 00:06:02.509 You know, take that step and, uh, cause it's scary. 00:06:02.509 --> 00:06:05.814 It was scary for me a lot of times. 00:06:05.814 --> 00:06:10.769 Um, so that's a real quick synopsis and I'm going to more detail if you'd like. 00:06:11.451 --> 00:06:13.437 Well, I want to unpack it. 00:06:13.437 --> 00:06:28.766 In a career that spans four decades, the industry has undergone massive transformation deregulation in the early eighties, the rise of the internet and technology in the early 2000s and late 90s. 00:06:28.766 --> 00:06:34.353 Now we're into an AI environment or an artificial intelligence age. 00:06:34.353 --> 00:06:37.716 So I guess I'm curious what hasn't changed? 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:49.098 I'll tell you what hasn't changed, and especially in the LTL industry, is the complexity. 00:06:49.098 --> 00:06:58.279 You know they're making headway, but I argue that they are still using many parts of the Kamae classification system that was born from the railroad industry back in 1935. 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:01.699 And I believe in simplicity. 00:07:01.699 --> 00:07:03.266 That is not simple. 00:07:03.266 --> 00:07:04.824 The tariffs are not simple. 00:07:04.824 --> 00:07:07.100 The tariffs are not simple. 00:07:07.100 --> 00:07:09.949 The rules are not simple. 00:07:09.949 --> 00:07:18.374 The industry makes it pretty complex and there's been very little change from that. 00:07:18.374 --> 00:07:25.434 However you talk about the progression the industry's found. 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:44.367 One reason for 3PL's existence is to make the lives of shippers simpler easier, save them time and effort, because it's not easy dealing with an LTL carrier and figuring out what the net charge is going to be for any particular shipment. 00:07:44.709 --> 00:07:54.036 It's not easy finding the right truck to haul your truck load because of the fragmentation in the industry. 00:07:54.036 --> 00:08:00.432 So I believe the third-party logistics industry is predicated on exactly what I preach. 00:08:00.432 --> 00:08:03.569 We're going to make your shippers' lives simpler easier. 00:08:03.569 --> 00:08:04.363 We're going to save you time and effort. 00:08:04.363 --> 00:08:05.194 We're going to make your shippers lives simpler easier. 00:08:05.194 --> 00:08:05.276 We're going to save you time and effort. 00:08:05.276 --> 00:08:08.245 We're going to give you a better user experience. 00:08:08.245 --> 00:08:15.410 We might even be able to save you money and you can trust us, and that's all the things I preach all the time. 00:08:15.410 --> 00:08:18.540 So I love that kind of progression. 00:08:18.540 --> 00:08:51.217 The technology that you mentioned, and now AI is and I'm not kept up with it all, but I've got to imagine AI is absolutely impacting how logistics and transportation companies function and how they can be more efficient Legacy LTL pricing and classification methodology is probably going to be around for a while longer, although there have been a number of attempts at reform. 00:08:58.419 --> 00:09:01.722 But the beneficiaries of that system are the LTL carriers themselves, and so it works for them quite well. 00:09:01.722 --> 00:09:06.847 So along that journey, you discovered something that led you to create FiveString. 00:09:06.847 --> 00:09:09.409 So a couple of questions. 00:09:09.409 --> 00:09:12.773 What was the moment or the catalyst of this? 00:09:12.773 --> 00:09:16.736 Is the idea that I want to pursue, for however long it takes to find the answer. 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:22.600 And why the name FiveString? 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:26.081 All right, great, good question. 00:09:26.081 --> 00:09:36.504 So Genesis 5-String started when I started my internet-centric 3PL it was called FreightProcom back in 1999. 00:09:36.504 --> 00:09:41.506 And we got involved, not because of me but somebody who worked for me. 00:09:41.506 --> 00:09:54.150 We got involved in a lot of pool distribution and those kind of solutions and we were using what is termed as couriers to do the final mile delivery. 00:09:54.750 --> 00:10:11.916 Well, this is a whole part of the industry I was not familiar with, but one of my people were and I got to learning about it and I was fascinated by it that these people even existed, because I grew up in the LTL space with big brands you see rolling down the highway everywhere across the cities. 00:10:11.916 --> 00:10:13.517 You recognize these brands. 00:10:13.517 --> 00:10:19.158 Well, that courier industry is very fragmented. 00:10:19.158 --> 00:10:20.619 There's thousands of players. 00:10:20.619 --> 00:10:23.563 They don't all do the same thing. 00:10:23.563 --> 00:10:31.899 I joke that it's an industry a little bit like Baskin Robbins it's ice cream but there's 31 flavors but it's an industry. 00:10:31.899 --> 00:10:37.352 The courier industry is largely comprised of companies who are using independent contractors. 00:10:37.352 --> 00:10:48.693 An independent contractor model has a 30% cost advantage over a W-2 provider and they're so flexible. 00:10:48.693 --> 00:10:49.794 What do you need? 00:10:49.794 --> 00:10:50.460 We'll do that. 00:10:50.460 --> 00:11:03.448 And so, matter of fact, we were doing distribution to homes for a home party plan company and the drivers actually had the garage door codes for certain customers. 00:11:03.448 --> 00:11:04.971 They would, you know, deliver every week. 00:11:04.971 --> 00:11:06.494 Yeah, and they. 00:11:06.494 --> 00:11:07.596 It was amazing. 00:11:07.596 --> 00:11:21.827 So anyway, I got, I got really fascinated with that and and after that journey, you know, we started getting into e-commerce and of course it doesn't take long to say that's going to be pretty popular, right, and? 00:11:21.827 --> 00:11:35.961 And so I saw the writing on the wall that this e-commerce thing is going to pick up, and not necessarily small packets, because there's UPS, fedex and the post office, but on the large and bulky there wasn't anything equivalent to UPS or FedEx. 00:11:35.961 --> 00:11:49.013 And so I said, well, that's going to explode and there's going to be more need for that final model delivery, not only the homes but, you know, in case of pool distribution, et cetera. 00:11:50.160 --> 00:11:56.427 And I ran into a company called Grand Junction I think, nate, you've heard of those guys. 00:11:56.427 --> 00:12:19.701 They were very successful putting the data connectors in, data connectors in, so you connect shippers with the final mile and exchange information, you know, passing orders, pulling back shipment statuses, pods and the like, and they were doing quite well. 00:12:19.701 --> 00:12:22.947 But they got acquired by your neighbor, target, and Target decided we're not going to make you available to the public. 00:12:22.947 --> 00:12:25.974 We only want you for our internal use. 00:12:25.974 --> 00:12:29.749 So tell all your customers that they need to find another home. 00:12:29.749 --> 00:12:30.672 We'll give them a year. 00:12:31.820 --> 00:12:36.188 And so I said, hmm, wonder who else is in that line of work. 00:12:36.188 --> 00:12:47.514 And I found out who it was and I talked to them and I thought there was something they weren't going to be doing that I thought was important. 00:12:47.514 --> 00:12:49.663 And so I said you know what? 00:12:49.663 --> 00:12:52.772 I think there's not a lot of competition and there's a need. 00:12:52.772 --> 00:13:17.285 So I'm going to try and duplicate what Grand Junction was doing, In other words, create a data hub that shippers and carriers, especially fundamental couriers, can connect to, because that all-important status for the end consumer is important. 00:13:17.285 --> 00:13:19.293 And I tell people now. 00:13:19.373 --> 00:13:28.644 I said you know, everybody's pretty accustomed to the information you get when Amazon makes a delivery, but not everybody has their own blue trucks running around. 00:13:28.644 --> 00:13:46.133 And so in the large and bulky side of the business, unless you use a 3PL like a JBN or an XPO or something of that nature, if you want to assemble your own network, it's going to take multiple carriers, okay. 00:13:46.133 --> 00:13:49.188 So how do you get this delivery information? 00:13:49.188 --> 00:13:50.605 How do you push orders to them? 00:13:50.605 --> 00:13:53.143 How do you get quotes back, whatever you need to do. 00:13:53.143 --> 00:13:58.129 From a data standpoint, that's a pretty hard problem to solve. 00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:01.288 And so I set about solving that. 00:14:01.780 --> 00:14:02.846 But I didn't want to be a broker. 00:14:02.846 --> 00:14:12.551 I'd been there and done that and I thought being a Grand Junction being a SaaS provider with the technology connectors. 00:14:12.551 --> 00:14:17.811 But I want to build a referral network because people don't know who's in the final mile. 00:14:17.811 --> 00:14:20.001 They don't know that flavor of ice cream. 00:14:20.001 --> 00:14:24.448 Oh, I want to deliver fitness equipment what kind of carriers do I need? 00:14:24.448 --> 00:14:29.350 Or I want to deliver meal kits what do I need for that? 00:14:29.350 --> 00:14:38.352 And so we built a referral network so that when we engaged a shipper, I could introduce them. 00:14:38.352 --> 00:14:40.216 But they cut the deal themselves. 00:14:40.216 --> 00:14:42.908 We were just a technology enabler. 00:14:42.908 --> 00:14:50.431 So that's what we set out to do and we're still doing it. 00:14:50.431 --> 00:14:53.568 Only I'm not doing it on a day-to-day basis. 00:14:54.080 --> 00:15:04.155 What's interesting to me about that is when you have deep domain expertise and you understand all of the perspectives and roles in the market. 00:15:04.561 --> 00:15:06.649 You've got carriers in the middle mile. 00:15:06.860 --> 00:15:20.549 You have carriers in the final mile of a whole bunch of different varieties, from couriers on up to box trucks doing white glove delivery, and then you have truckload providers, you have final mile nodes. 00:15:20.549 --> 00:15:39.461 And then you have the shipper side of things, where, from enterprise on down to small business, they're not in the logistics business, they are in the product business, and this is a necessary evil in some ways, and they can either let that be a liability or they can turn it into some kind of a competitive advantage. 00:15:39.461 --> 00:16:06.014 And so, after the decades of experience that you had at that point to be able to articulate a narrow gap that wasn't being served in the industry, that kind of intuition and deep insight that says, hey, I know somebody's building this product, but I think they're missing another layer, that level of strategic identification of a market need. 00:16:06.014 --> 00:16:09.022 Where did that come from for you? 00:16:09.022 --> 00:16:10.605 Is that something that are you? 00:16:10.605 --> 00:16:15.784 Constantly your back brain is thinking about ltl and you can't turn it off. 00:16:15.784 --> 00:16:16.967 Or did you read a book? 00:16:16.967 --> 00:16:20.259 Or like, where does that curiosity to keep looking for that. 00:16:21.160 --> 00:16:30.144 Um slice of an insight come from well, one, one of the things and like I said in my intro, I have studied. 00:16:30.144 --> 00:16:32.712 I just wasn't in LTL. 00:16:32.712 --> 00:16:48.345 I studied it deeply and you know, the thing that amazed me was and it still does LTL carriers do not like anything that's not industrial shipments, meaning dock-to-dock. 00:16:48.345 --> 00:16:51.273 They love that, they price that, that's what they want. 00:16:51.533 --> 00:16:52.416 Palletized yep. 00:16:52.947 --> 00:17:03.876 But if it's a shipment to a residence, if it's a shipment to a self-storage unit, a golf course, you know a construction site, or requires an appointment, they don't like it. 00:17:03.876 --> 00:17:05.185 So what do they do? 00:17:05.185 --> 00:17:11.705 They have these assessorial charges, and I saw the assessorial charges getting more and more punitive. 00:17:11.705 --> 00:17:19.119 Okay, well, you don't like it, but there is a factor segment of the transportation industry does like it. 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:28.393 You know, I used to joke when I started meeting these final mile carriers, the couriers hey, do you know about limited access? 00:17:28.393 --> 00:17:31.335 And they go what are you talking about? 00:17:31.335 --> 00:17:35.194 Well, do you charge extra to deliver to the self-storage unit? 00:17:35.194 --> 00:17:36.925 Do you charge extra to deliver to a house? 00:17:36.925 --> 00:17:40.667 Do you charge extra for the lift gate that's on your box truck? 00:17:40.667 --> 00:17:44.330 No, no, no To them. 00:17:44.330 --> 00:18:04.042 It's a delivery which I think it's another opportunity for customers to use a different kind of service that may be a little bit better on the delivery. 00:18:04.806 --> 00:18:06.652 But you just hit the nail on the head. 00:18:06.652 --> 00:18:07.634 What about the middle mile? 00:18:07.634 --> 00:18:08.750 See, they're just final mile. 00:18:08.750 --> 00:18:14.114 And so how you integrate that middle mile to the final mile? 00:18:14.114 --> 00:18:16.859 Probably best served by a 3PL. 00:18:16.859 --> 00:18:22.375 That's what they do, and I've said this all along. 00:18:22.375 --> 00:18:32.416 If all you do is resell another service, you're just a pure transactional broker and you're just offering LTL resell services. 00:18:32.416 --> 00:18:35.000 How much value is there really there? 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:38.285 Tl resell services how much value is there really there? 00:18:38.285 --> 00:18:43.605 But when you can do something like pool distribution, you're managing the middle mile and you're putting it coordinating with the final mile. 00:18:43.605 --> 00:18:48.597 Oh, by the way, I've got a network of people who can do your assembly of your fitness equipment. 00:18:48.597 --> 00:18:52.535 That's where real value comes to play. 00:18:52.535 --> 00:19:05.699 And so, yeah, I'm always thinking what is it that makes sense, that adds more value to the equation or takes costs out of the equation, because that's got to be popular? 00:19:06.825 --> 00:19:17.267 And again, that is a different way of coming at a problem, and I think that's part of why our conversations that usually go well beyond their scheduled time. 00:19:17.267 --> 00:19:21.396 If we put 30 minutes on the calendar, we're talking for an hour. 00:19:21.396 --> 00:19:23.029 We put an hour, we talk for three. 00:19:23.029 --> 00:19:34.035 It's just the way of things, because I, because we're both drawn to the similar parts of the market and, um, I, I agree, we are, you are a brother from another mother, for me as well. 00:19:34.434 --> 00:19:38.681 So you have this professional career portion of you. 00:19:38.681 --> 00:19:43.174 You're an executive, you learn the ropes and then you're responsible for things. 00:19:43.174 --> 00:19:55.776 Then you have a couple of other chapters where you're starting businesses, you're exiting businesses and after all that time now you still are an owner, but you have somebody else running five string. 00:19:55.776 --> 00:19:57.807 What is that process? 00:19:57.807 --> 00:19:59.993 What has it been like for you? 00:19:59.993 --> 00:20:12.788 Not not technically or not financially, and reviewing dashboards remotely and all that, but what has it meant for you to have to let go of the vision that you maybe started it with? 00:20:12.788 --> 00:20:20.936 And the next generation is coming in and they share a lot of it, I'm sure, but they're also passionate and they see a couple of things that maybe you don't. 00:20:20.936 --> 00:20:26.397 So how do you transition from active and in the business to more of a chairman role. 00:20:28.125 --> 00:20:28.872 Yeah, great question. 00:20:28.872 --> 00:20:36.157 I think you know, I think every entrepreneur faces this, because I believe every entrepreneur has their vision. 00:20:36.157 --> 00:20:39.109 This is how it should be, this is how it should work. 00:20:39.109 --> 00:20:50.251 But as you grow you have to cede authority to some other folks who might think slightly differently, and that becomes hard. 00:20:50.251 --> 00:20:55.998 And so I joke that I like being married. 00:20:56.664 --> 00:21:07.836 And the story is my wife retired about a year after I started FiveStream and when she retired she started poking at me. 00:21:07.836 --> 00:21:11.535 Remember all those things we're going to go do in our golden years? 00:21:11.535 --> 00:21:16.395 You know, and, like I said, I've been married almost 48 years now, so I like it. 00:21:16.395 --> 00:21:30.074 And to appease her, because I'm in the grind man, you know, you know how it is, and everybody who's out there today probably knows how it is in the logistics transportation space, you're working, working, working, working. 00:21:30.074 --> 00:21:38.398 And I finally decided that yeah, I want to take a different course. 00:21:38.398 --> 00:21:44.198 And so I found people to take it over and yet have me become more of an advisor. 00:21:44.198 --> 00:21:48.115 So I wasn't totally out of it, but I had the seed to control. 00:21:48.115 --> 00:22:01.094 They make the decisions now, and that was hard because I was the one making all the decisions until that time, and that's a different position to be in but I've transitioned. 00:22:01.424 --> 00:22:09.673 But you know what's funny, nate, is when I gave that up and I say, well, I kind of tried retirement but I flunked. 00:22:09.673 --> 00:22:23.236 I was three months away from the day-to-day and I'm playing some golf and tennis and maybe a little pickleball and maybe a little banjo, but there's no purpose in that. 00:22:23.236 --> 00:22:26.047 And so I'm a guy who's got to have some purpose. 00:22:26.047 --> 00:22:40.618 And so I got contacted by Vistage, which is the world's leading, largest business leader peer group organization, and they wanted to have another group formed in Kansas City and thought I'd be a good candidate to lead that. 00:22:40.618 --> 00:22:42.632 I saw a purpose there. 00:22:42.632 --> 00:22:53.180 And now that's what I'm doing and I love it because I'm still involved in the business world, not necessarily totally transportation, logistics. 00:22:53.180 --> 00:23:02.160 I'm getting to learn so much from all other types of leaders and what they face and challenge all the time, so I really, really enjoy that. 00:23:23.625 --> 00:23:25.027 Is business business at the end of the day? 00:23:25.027 --> 00:23:25.827 Does it not matter? 00:23:25.827 --> 00:23:28.569 Or is having unique industry insight an advantage? 00:23:28.569 --> 00:23:31.313 How do you think about what's universal and what's not? 00:23:31.313 --> 00:23:33.756 I had a five-star general. 00:23:33.756 --> 00:23:47.916 Come talk to my leadership group and I said, okay, tell me the difference between leading in the military versus leading in public or private company, and he says leadership of people is all the same and that's what we're really doing. 00:23:47.916 --> 00:23:52.970 We're leading people and they handle the processes and they handle the processes. 00:23:52.970 --> 00:24:04.101 But when you can inspire people and get them all in the same line to do the same thing for a common purpose, that's what really leadership is all about. 00:24:04.101 --> 00:24:12.058 Yeah, and as I coach these leaders, I say look, I got an aerospace manufacturing leader. 00:24:12.058 --> 00:24:23.739 I don't know anything about aerospace manufacturing, I don't need to, but he faces some of the same challenges, be it marketing, be it gosh. 00:24:23.739 --> 00:24:24.599 How do I think about AI? 00:24:43.428 --> 00:24:44.230 How do I think about culture? 00:24:44.230 --> 00:24:44.990 How do I inspire my team? 00:24:44.990 --> 00:24:45.491 All of that? 00:24:45.491 --> 00:24:46.233 How do I retain my key employees? 00:24:46.233 --> 00:24:48.597 It's so much of that that is very common for any leader. 00:24:48.597 --> 00:24:50.201 When you look back on your own career. 00:24:50.201 --> 00:24:51.503 Do you wish you had a group like that yourself? 00:24:51.503 --> 00:24:51.884 Oh my God. 00:24:55.984 --> 00:24:57.813 Did you have mentors that were there and advisors that were on the sidelines to help you? 00:24:57.813 --> 00:24:58.536 No, I didn't, and I regret that. 00:24:58.536 --> 00:25:09.853 When I started FreightProcom in 1999, I joke that my leadership experience to that date was I was a senior class president in my high school it had 12 students in it. 00:25:09.853 --> 00:25:11.931 That's not leadership. 00:25:11.931 --> 00:25:19.194 So I come into this and I'm the visionary and I now have a board of directors because we raised some capital. 00:25:19.194 --> 00:25:23.396 The capital sources were the board. 00:25:23.396 --> 00:25:24.830 Now I got to report to them. 00:25:24.830 --> 00:25:29.893 I've never done that before and I've got 30 people. 00:25:29.893 --> 00:25:34.719 Never led that before and I made a ton of mistakes. 00:25:34.719 --> 00:25:38.539 Never led that before and I made a ton of mistakes. 00:25:43.145 --> 00:25:47.061 You know I learned very quickly that you don't take all your challenges and issues to the board because they'll just say we don't have the right guy in the chair. 00:25:47.082 --> 00:25:47.605 You're there to solve them. 00:25:47.605 --> 00:25:49.109 They're there to listen and ask good questions. 00:25:49.109 --> 00:26:00.477 It became very lonely and I made a ton of mistakes and I look back today and go man, I wish I had peers to lean on. 00:26:00.477 --> 00:26:06.958 You know, and you know, the last person who wanted to hear about my struggles and trials was my wife. 00:26:06.958 --> 00:26:12.770 She doesn't want to hear that, and there are things you can't share with your team. 00:26:12.770 --> 00:26:25.940 You know, even though you might call them family and team, they've got their agenda and I've got mine, and so, yeah, I reflect back and go. 00:26:27.166 --> 00:26:32.527 It's always better, and that's why I encourage any leader to be part of another group, something bigger. 00:26:32.527 --> 00:26:36.576 You got to vent and you've got to constantly be learning. 00:26:36.576 --> 00:26:40.795 I believe leaders are lifetime learners and they're curious. 00:26:40.795 --> 00:26:53.750 And well, you're going to learn a lot from other people, and especially if they're in a similar role not industry, but industry too but if they're in another role, you're going to learn a lot. 00:26:53.750 --> 00:27:09.008 So attach yourself to others, be it mentors, be it coaches, be it peer groups, mastermind group, I don't care what you call it but when you're attached to other people, it's going to make you a better person going to make you a better leader. 00:27:10.070 --> 00:27:15.596 So eventually you probably could have written a book on all the things what not to do Be too big. 00:27:15.596 --> 00:27:19.232 And then one day you decided that you did want to write a book. 00:27:19.232 --> 00:27:23.653 I know you're the author of the book called Stop the Hassle and I think you're working on another book now. 00:27:23.653 --> 00:27:27.731 What is behind that, is it? 00:27:27.731 --> 00:27:36.258 I want to pass on the knowledge that I've gleaned as part of the next chapter of finding that purpose that you mentioned. 00:27:36.904 --> 00:27:37.666 Yeah. 00:27:37.666 --> 00:27:44.612 So one thing I tell all my leaders in my peer group if you're going to learn, you got to be vulnerable. 00:27:44.612 --> 00:27:50.830 So I'm going to be vulnerable with you and your audience, and I profess this in my book. 00:27:50.830 --> 00:28:04.852 My very first company I started I was a senior in college and I went to college in Springfield, missouri, and they had this. 00:28:04.852 --> 00:28:06.817 They have this restaurant that sold cashew chicken. 00:28:06.817 --> 00:28:09.704 I'd say it's a Chinese dish, but it really isn't. 00:28:09.704 --> 00:28:16.232 It's just little fried chicken nuggets with an oyster gravy and some cashews and onions on it and over rice. 00:28:16.232 --> 00:28:18.388 But very popular. 00:28:18.388 --> 00:28:19.712 I mean very popular. 00:28:19.712 --> 00:28:21.136 It was probably one every mile you went. 00:28:21.136 --> 00:28:24.854 Well, I grew up 100 miles down the road in a little town called Rolla. 00:28:24.854 --> 00:28:25.925 We didn't have that there. 00:28:25.925 --> 00:28:34.170 So my roommate and I decided well, we're going to start this restaurant in Rolla, we'll just hire a manager and we'll just collect the checks. 00:28:34.170 --> 00:28:38.498 And you can imagine how it ended. 00:28:38.498 --> 00:28:39.579 And it did end that way. 00:28:39.579 --> 00:28:51.711 And then five years later I say, hey, I'm in the trucking industry, I know trucking, I'm going to start a trucking company and that didn't end well. 00:28:51.711 --> 00:29:07.178 And so I tell people today just because you like to cook doesn't mean you should start a restaurant Just because you like working with grass and flowers, don't start a landscaping company. 00:29:07.178 --> 00:29:17.016 So what happened was later in my career, after I learned these really hard and expensive lessons, I got asked to speak at a logistics conference. 00:29:17.016 --> 00:29:19.009 I said what would you like me to talk on? 00:29:19.009 --> 00:29:20.773 Don't care. 00:29:20.773 --> 00:29:26.709 And so I thought, okay, I want to reflect and do something creative. 00:29:26.709 --> 00:29:35.468 And so I started reflecting on my career and what's happening in the industry, with 3PLs coming out and all this. 00:29:35.468 --> 00:29:45.941 And that was the genesis of me discovering the real secret to organic growth. 00:29:45.941 --> 00:29:51.346 And what I did? 00:29:51.346 --> 00:30:13.751 I studied Amazon and Netflix and Uber and I came up with the common formula that they use, and my first book was called the Unconventional Thinking of Dominant Companies, and it's 100% about those monsters that shot to the top, beat their competition very quickly became unicorns and a few local Kansas City companies that I think do the same thing, and they all use this formula. 00:30:13.751 --> 00:30:14.509 They don't talk about it. 00:30:14.509 --> 00:30:16.063 I don't even know if they're really aware of it, but the same thing, and they all use this formula. 00:30:16.063 --> 00:30:16.342 They don't talk about it. 00:30:16.342 --> 00:30:18.153 I don't even know if they're really aware of it, but they do this. 00:30:18.153 --> 00:30:34.534 And so in the second book Stop the Hassle I decided to write that book about what every company should be doing, both from a what I call product point of view and a cultural point of view, and real quickly. 00:30:34.534 --> 00:30:35.055 It's this. 00:30:35.596 --> 00:30:40.270 I believe you and I, and everybody listening to this, are buyers. 00:30:40.270 --> 00:30:44.145 Now, we may not be professional buyers, but we buy things every day. 00:30:44.145 --> 00:30:58.029 We make a buying decision and I believe there's a formula, a psychology that we use, and it involves we're looking for convenience, we want to save time, effort, we want it simple and easy. 00:30:58.029 --> 00:31:05.576 When I pull off the interstate for gas, it's always 319.9 at every station at that interchange. 00:31:05.576 --> 00:31:14.102 Well, am I going to go left across the interchange through a couple lights to the gas station on the left or am I going to stay on the right-hand side so I can get back? 00:31:14.102 --> 00:31:16.442 I'm going to do that because it saves me time and effort. 00:31:16.442 --> 00:31:21.550 That's a natural thing tendency we have. 00:31:21.550 --> 00:31:25.218 I want simple, I want easy, I don't want a more complex life. 00:31:25.218 --> 00:31:30.071 So when we're out looking, we want that convenience. 00:31:30.071 --> 00:31:32.616 We want a competitive price. 00:31:32.616 --> 00:31:36.211 We don't necessarily want lowest price all the time, but we're trying to save money. 00:31:36.211 --> 00:31:41.311 But what we really want is transparency, and this goes back to LTL. 00:31:41.311 --> 00:31:46.450 I want to know what it's going to cost before I make that purchase decision. 00:31:46.450 --> 00:31:50.665 That's why I like TMSs now, because I can tell exactly what my cost should be. 00:31:50.665 --> 00:31:52.130 But we like that transparency. 00:31:52.130 --> 00:31:54.476 That's why we don't like working with lawyers. 00:31:54.476 --> 00:32:01.630 We know it's $300 an hour but we never know how many hours the airlines oh what $200 charge. 00:32:01.630 --> 00:32:02.290 I didn't know. 00:32:02.290 --> 00:32:03.511 Oh, it's in the fine print. 00:32:03.511 --> 00:32:17.041 I was in Vegas last weekend and my $125 room a night had a $49 resort fee. 00:32:17.041 --> 00:32:18.242 What's that? 00:32:18.242 --> 00:32:20.186 Oh, you didn't. 00:32:20.186 --> 00:32:21.512 You know, that's in the fine print. 00:32:21.512 --> 00:32:23.050 I don't like fine print. 00:32:23.050 --> 00:32:24.464 Okay, so that transparency. 00:32:24.665 --> 00:32:30.305 Third, we like a great user experience, both in the buying process and the product itself. 00:32:30.305 --> 00:32:33.575 I want to be treated like I'm their only customer. 00:32:33.575 --> 00:32:35.942 If I have questions, I want them answered. 00:32:35.942 --> 00:32:38.028 I really don't want to talk to a bot. 00:32:38.028 --> 00:32:45.489 I want to talk to a human, because who knows where my questions are going to go and I've had too much frustration with bots taking me time and effort. 00:32:45.489 --> 00:32:52.769 But the product if it's a merchandise, I want durability, I want style, I want efficiency. 00:32:52.769 --> 00:33:01.991 If I'm dealing with a professional, you know, I want courteousness, professionalism. 00:33:01.991 --> 00:33:04.596 I want, you know, I like uniforms. 00:33:04.596 --> 00:33:09.171 If I'm going into a retail store, I like bright lights, clean, organized. 00:33:09.171 --> 00:33:11.675 That all creates great user experience. 00:33:11.715 --> 00:33:12.798 And then fourth is trust. 00:33:12.798 --> 00:33:19.178 When we make a buying decision, we buyers have in our mind what it is we're going to get. 00:33:19.178 --> 00:33:27.011 That's our experience, especially true if there's a brand promise, like when it absolutely positively has to be there overnight. 00:33:27.011 --> 00:33:28.234 Well, guess what? 00:33:28.234 --> 00:33:30.446 I expect it to be there overnight. 00:33:30.446 --> 00:33:34.636 That's your brand promise, but we have this expectation and we don't get it. 00:33:34.636 --> 00:33:37.048 Now I can't trust them ever again. 00:33:37.048 --> 00:33:45.192 Okay, and I'm sure, in logistics, when somebody's late with a shipment or damages a shipment, how do I trust them going forward? 00:33:45.192 --> 00:33:46.073 Do they have a guarantee? 00:33:46.073 --> 00:33:46.994 What kind of guarantee? 00:33:46.994 --> 00:33:48.278 Are there warranties? 00:33:48.278 --> 00:33:49.359 Are there free returns? 00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:54.477 Are there testimonials where my peers are telling me, yeah, I had a great experience, bad experience? 00:33:54.477 --> 00:34:10.594 So bottom line is, when you can do all four of those convenience, transparent, competitive pricing, great buying and user experience and trust I as a buyer don't have any excuses not to buy from you. 00:34:11.306 --> 00:34:24.632 But the problem is most companies have some sort of trade-off, a conscious trade-off, and I use Walmart Walmart, you know, everyday low prices, rollback America, but I hope you like checking yourself out. 00:34:24.632 --> 00:34:27.875 I don't find that a particularly appealing experience. 00:34:27.875 --> 00:34:37.855 They're not maybe as well lit, not as well organized as, say, a Target, right, I think there's just a little different user experience. 00:34:37.855 --> 00:34:46.094 Dollar stores pretty cheap stuff, but oh my God, there might be one person working there and they don't have storerooms. 00:34:46.094 --> 00:34:48.940 It's all cluttery, it's a nightmare. 00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:49.887 Jiffy Lube. 00:34:49.887 --> 00:34:54.838 Their tradeoff is we're going to change our oil in 20 minutes, but it's going to come at a price. 00:34:54.838 --> 00:35:02.010 I can do it at Walmart for half the price twice the time, and so I believe they have these conscious tradeoffs. 00:35:02.030 --> 00:35:09.920 When you do that, you now have to appeal to somebody whose personal value system matches what you offer. 00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:16.717 Okay, now I can't tell you what yours is, nate, but my personal value system is time. 00:35:16.717 --> 00:35:21.797 I will pay a premium if you save me time. 00:35:21.797 --> 00:35:25.193 I believe time is our most precious commodity, not money. 00:35:25.193 --> 00:35:29.713 I can go to my financial planner and my banking accounts, tell you how much money I have. 00:35:29.713 --> 00:35:36.141 I can't tell you how much time I've got, so I believe time is our most precious. 00:35:36.141 --> 00:35:37.565 So that's how I make my decision. 00:35:38.788 --> 00:35:42.135 I've got a relative lives in a small town, about 15,000. 00:35:42.135 --> 00:35:43.778 There's two grocery stores and a Walmart. 00:35:43.778 --> 00:35:54.860 She clips coupons every week and goes to all three to buy the sales and I'm going to guess she might save $20, $25 a week, but it takes her two, two and a half hours. 00:35:54.860 --> 00:35:56.085 I'm not doing that. 00:35:56.085 --> 00:36:01.835 My time is more valuable, but that's her personal value system is money. 00:36:01.835 --> 00:36:04.132 I've got a friend who will only fly first class. 00:36:04.132 --> 00:36:20.684 They like that experience, okay, so we all have our personal value systems, but I claim that Amazon, uber, netflix they've used this formula to where hey, I don't have a excuse not to buy from them. 00:36:20.684 --> 00:36:24.135 So that's what I preach in my book. 00:36:24.135 --> 00:36:30.150 And the cultural side of that is this we all have competitors. 00:36:30.530 --> 00:36:33.597 Or said another way, a buyer has alternatives. 00:36:33.597 --> 00:36:38.416 Do I wash my own car or do I go to the car wash? 00:36:38.416 --> 00:36:43.916 Now, do I go to the car wash where I'm spraying it myself, or do I go through the drive-thru? 00:36:43.916 --> 00:36:50.135 Okay, so you know which one of those do I do? 00:36:50.135 --> 00:36:57.851 And so those alternatives, those competitors, need to know about each other. 00:36:57.851 --> 00:37:00.474 And I joke about this. 00:37:00.474 --> 00:37:02.731 I'm a big Kansas City Chiefs fan. 00:37:02.731 --> 00:37:07.735 I go listen, andy Reid doesn't show up on a Sunday morning and go, let's see who we play in this week. 00:37:07.735 --> 00:37:09.873 And what do they like to do? 00:37:09.873 --> 00:37:11.038 Do they run the ball? 00:37:11.038 --> 00:37:11.822 Do they pass the ball? 00:37:11.822 --> 00:37:12.505 What about defense? 00:37:12.505 --> 00:37:13.367 Are they playing zone? 00:37:13.367 --> 00:37:16.034 No, they study their competition. 00:37:16.034 --> 00:37:19.972 So I claim that every company should have an R&D function. 00:37:19.972 --> 00:37:20.876 Now that sounds funny. 00:37:20.876 --> 00:37:24.405 Not a pharmaceutical or scientific company, but R&D. 00:37:24.487 --> 00:37:28.554 I need you to be researching the alternative that a buyer has. 00:37:28.554 --> 00:37:34.394 How do you stack up from a convenience standpoint, how much time, effort, simple, easy. 00:37:34.394 --> 00:37:41.934 From a price standpoint, from a transparency, from a user experience, from a guarantee or trust? 00:37:41.934 --> 00:37:47.932 And if you don't stack up, be working on that because that's the excuse your buyers are using. 00:37:47.932 --> 00:37:50.351 Well, I don't go there because it's just not a good experience. 00:37:50.351 --> 00:37:51.293 I don't get waited on. 00:37:51.293 --> 00:37:55.532 It takes too much time and too much effort or they're just priced high. 00:37:55.532 --> 00:37:57.552 You get these buyer issues. 00:37:57.552 --> 00:38:04.166 So study your competition and constantly be working on that, because if you don't, that's where startups come to play. 00:38:05.146 --> 00:38:13.039 3pls came to play because it was too hard to figure out these LTL prices and rules. 00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:16.092 It's too hard, too much time. 00:38:16.092 --> 00:38:17.980 3pls said oh, we'll make it easier. 00:38:17.980 --> 00:38:25.936 You want access to a TMS where you can rate, shop and create your own bills of lading and you just tell us what you need and we'll send a dry van or a flatbed or a free. 00:38:25.936 --> 00:38:28.481 Okay, make it easy. 00:38:28.481 --> 00:38:31.045 That's how that 3PL industry. 00:38:31.045 --> 00:38:35.777 So if you don't pay attention to what your buyers are looking for. 00:38:35.777 --> 00:38:38.369 You don't pay attention to what your competitors are doing. 00:38:38.369 --> 00:38:46.992 You're going to be the blockbuster and they're going to be the Netflix, or a Netflix is going to show up and say we found your weakness and we're going to exploit that. 00:38:46.992 --> 00:38:50.934 Well, that's a masterclass right there you just. 00:38:52.668 --> 00:39:11.195 I'm sure for those that are listening, sometimes it's really easy to get wrapped up in the day to day or just what the P&L shows in the last month end and or your latest big customer issue or or contract problem, you name it, and that's a part of running and owning a business, for sure. 00:39:11.195 --> 00:39:19.159