WEBVTT 00:00:01.762 --> 00:00:08.134 Hello and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 00:00:08.134 --> 00:00:12.570 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and inspiring others to take the leap. 00:00:13.699 --> 00:00:16.510 It's a roller coaster ride that you might ultimately fail. 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:19.068 That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 00:00:19.068 --> 00:00:20.646 It was very hard. 00:00:20.646 --> 00:00:23.047 It truly is building a legacy. 00:00:23.740 --> 00:00:30.251 The more life you live, the more wisdom you have, because we are where we're supposed to be, kind of answering the call. 00:00:30.780 --> 00:00:33.189 Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 00:00:33.189 --> 00:00:35.125 I'm your host, Nate Shoots. 00:00:35.125 --> 00:00:38.168 Let's build something together from the ground up. 00:00:38.168 --> 00:00:45.929 Hi everybody, and welcome back to the show. 00:00:45.929 --> 00:00:50.631 Big thanks again to Jim Bramlett for sharing his story with everybody last week. 00:00:50.631 --> 00:01:14.953 He has a wealth of knowledge behind him in his career in supply chain and as an entrepreneur, and I hope you all found some value from that and maybe got a little bit more curious about Final Mile, an area that I'm deeply passionate about and could talk about for hours, but that's a different podcast that I'll have to start, maybe one day, dedicated just to that. 00:01:15.615 --> 00:01:23.902 But today we're going to go a completely different direction and spend some time with Josh Klebanoff, who's the co-founder and COO of Yolk Transport. 00:01:23.902 --> 00:01:49.974 Josh does event logistics and transportation everything from concerts to races to drone shows and everything that you can imagine in between and this is going to be a neat one for me because and I think, for a lot of our listeners because we get to experience these events as consumers, but we oftentimes don't know what it takes to actually make all of that happen. 00:01:49.974 --> 00:01:53.006 So we're going to cover a lot of territory today. 00:01:53.006 --> 00:01:59.409 But, Josh, first of all, thank you for being here and for opening up and be willing to let us all behind the curtain. 00:01:59.409 --> 00:02:04.311 Why don't you do a quick introduction of your background and a little bit more about Yolk? 00:02:04.852 --> 00:02:07.840 a quick introduction of your background and a little bit more about Yolk. 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:11.941 Yeah for sure. 00:02:11.941 --> 00:02:13.402 Thanks, nate, and appreciate you welcoming me on the show. 00:02:13.402 --> 00:02:14.145 So my name is Josh Klebanoff. 00:02:14.145 --> 00:02:15.486 I'm the founder and COO of Yolk Transport. 00:02:16.489 --> 00:02:42.855 We started back in 2016, but I actually landed in the logistics space, like most, in a very strange fashion, graduated from college in 2011 and also, like most, had no idea what to do next, so followed some family footsteps and tried to get into the real estate, banking, finance world, where I was completely miserable for about 18 months. 00:02:42.855 --> 00:02:49.022 One day said screw it, I don't know what I'm going to do next, but it's not going to be this. 00:02:49.022 --> 00:02:52.009 And I quit From there. 00:02:52.009 --> 00:02:54.401 Everyone around me said what are you doing? 00:02:54.401 --> 00:02:55.063 What are you doing? 00:02:55.063 --> 00:02:58.140 And I said I don't know, but this is not what I want to be doing. 00:02:58.140 --> 00:03:11.427 So I started actually temping at a company called Tough Mudder at the time and if the listeners aren't familiar with that, it's an extreme mud run obstacle race. 00:03:11.427 --> 00:03:20.853 So it was like a 12 mile, 13 mile run that we would put on and they would do somewhere between like 30 and 60 events throughout the year. 00:03:20.853 --> 00:03:32.671 So I started temping there, truly just as an assistant in the operations department had no idea about anything and it was super nitty gritty. 00:03:32.671 --> 00:03:35.342 Get your hands dirty, figuratively and literally right. 00:03:35.342 --> 00:03:56.544 So I was in the office till 9pm just ordering supplies for the events for the first couple of months and then after that started hitting the road like a traveling gypsy to offload trucks and set up barricade and hang signs and open folding tables and all of those things. 00:03:56.544 --> 00:04:05.006 So I was there for about five years and in that time I was maybe like employee 15 or 16. 00:04:05.006 --> 00:04:09.993 And within that five-year time the company grew to around 100 or so employees. 00:04:10.554 --> 00:04:22.163 I went from temp to head of supply chain and really got my feet wet in the whole industry of both events and logistics and said to myself I was like I kind of like this. 00:04:22.182 --> 00:04:24.365 Said to myself it was like kind of like this. 00:04:24.365 --> 00:04:30.632 So that's really how I kind of got my start both in the logistics world and in the events world. 00:04:30.632 --> 00:04:42.483 I was there for about five years and then we found out and I met my business partner there as well. 00:04:42.483 --> 00:04:59.720 He actually worked for me at the time and we were just like there's got to be a better way to deal with trucking in the event world, because every single person that works in events and orders or needs trucking, they've got the creme de la creme or they've got bottom of the barrel. 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:06.213 There was no one at all in the middle and there was no one that got and understood events. 00:05:06.213 --> 00:05:24.721 And for us, the tipping point on how we decided to jump ship from there and start this was I think it was with I'm going to say CH Robinson or TQL or something like that, and Nate, if you feel like you need to cut that out, no, totally good, Keep going that, and. 00:05:25.202 --> 00:05:29.040 Nate, if you feel like you need to cut that out, no, totally good, keep going. 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:44.367 But we were in Fairburn, georgia, like three hours outside of Atlanta, and the gates opened at 6am on Saturday and there was a merch load that had to be delivered Friday morning so we can offload all the t-shirts, get it in the merch tent and set up sales. 00:05:44.367 --> 00:05:52.541 Trucks, missing, trucks, missing, trucks, missing. 00:05:52.541 --> 00:06:01.151 My now business partner and I are standing in the field with our phones plugged into a golf cart so that they're not dying, and calling the 800 number for CH and saying where's the truck? 00:06:01.151 --> 00:06:01.812 Where's the truck? 00:06:01.812 --> 00:06:04.141 I think it was double brokered or I don't know. 00:06:04.141 --> 00:06:04.942 Something happened. 00:06:05.564 --> 00:06:15.319 The load finally shows up at three o'clock in the morning on Saturday and we slept on site in a mobile mini and the truck shows up and we opened the doors. 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:16.562 We're like all right, we got to hustle. 00:06:16.562 --> 00:06:20.151 Doors are at 6am, let's load in the t-shirts, get the tent ready. 00:06:20.151 --> 00:06:27.583 Rory, my now partner, opens the doors and what's in the truck? 00:06:27.583 --> 00:06:28.303 It's a truckload of olive oil. 00:06:28.303 --> 00:06:28.725 It's not our t-shirts. 00:06:28.725 --> 00:06:32.892 And we look at each other and we say, well, we're in deep. 00:06:32.892 --> 00:06:34.865 You know what for this event? 00:06:34.865 --> 00:06:36.209 Like no merch sales. 00:06:36.670 --> 00:06:39.057 So C-level folks are not going to be happy. 00:06:39.057 --> 00:06:44.088 One and two, we have to do something to better this industry. 00:06:44.088 --> 00:06:45.992 We have so many friends within this space. 00:06:45.992 --> 00:06:48.286 They need better service. 00:06:48.286 --> 00:06:51.389 So you know, have to prioritize. 00:06:51.389 --> 00:06:56.519 Obviously, the first thing first is like deal with what's going on on the ground, right? 00:06:56.519 --> 00:07:01.029 So send the truckload of olive oil back, figure out the warehouse where it actually is. 00:07:01.029 --> 00:07:02.273 Neither of us have slept. 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:12.000 We drove two hours or three hours to Atlanta and just started doing runs back and forth in a suburban once we found the boxes of t-shirts to get to site. 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:21.552 So we ended up selling some stuff not nearly as much as we should have, and then, once that event ended, we were like we need to leave this company and start something. 00:07:21.552 --> 00:07:34.803 So that's how I got my start and I would say the first five years, really the first two, three years I had no idea what I was doing working at Tough Mudder, absolutely no clue. 00:07:34.803 --> 00:07:45.274 But it was very much like the fake, until you make it kind of thing and I learned on the fly and made things happen Right. 00:07:45.274 --> 00:07:51.399 And I think both of those components in the logistics and the events world are imperative. 00:07:51.399 --> 00:08:13.884 You have to be able to learn from your mistakes and you have to be able to grow and pick things up quickly, um, and you have to make it happen right Cause logistics is not that job where you can just send a bunch of PowerPoints around and be a consultant type thing. 00:08:14.386 --> 00:08:29.514 You, you, at the end of the day, you have to make it happen, and that's where I learned how to do that and everything was super slow paced and there wasn't a whole lot of creativity happening and there was maybe not a lot of adrenaline, except for maybe, when a big deal would close or something like that. 00:08:29.514 --> 00:08:45.245 But logistics is this unique intersection of yeah, you got to do all the math, you have to have a good tech stack to be able to do it well, but you also have to go out and unload the truck and you got to be up at 3 o'clock in the morning and doing the suburban runs. 00:08:45.245 --> 00:08:57.376 And it's also such a physical, in-person um, oftentimes manual thing experience and so that you, you get both parts of the. 00:08:57.376 --> 00:09:05.553 Your head is challenged and it's intellectually demanding, but it's also just so real world and tangible and hard work. 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:15.643 Yeah, absolutely A million percent, and I think that's what helps me kind of get up every morning and get into this. 00:09:15.643 --> 00:09:21.423 Not only, like you said, it is hard work, right and, like now, running this company for almost 10 years. 00:09:21.423 --> 00:09:38.381 Unfortunately, I'm sitting at a keyboard and a desk all day, pounding like a little monkey, but there's so much that happens on the ground and I think also like that for us, proves success and helps our clients buy in a little bit too, because we're not just desk monkeys. 00:09:38.381 --> 00:09:46.524 Every single person that works at our company has been on the ground offloading trucks and knows what it's like to get a forklift stuck in the mud and how much it sucks. 00:09:47.226 --> 00:09:48.711 Oh cause you're doing a lot of stuff outdoors. 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:50.485 Everything is outside. 00:09:50.544 --> 00:09:51.006 Yeah. 00:09:51.268 --> 00:09:52.251 I mean, tell this all the time. 00:09:52.251 --> 00:09:54.924 You're not just bumping docks and you're not moving widgets from A to B. 00:09:54.924 --> 00:09:58.700 Everything's outside, Um, and the show must go on Right. 00:09:58.700 --> 00:10:07.231 So like if the forklift stuck in the mud, you still have to load or offload the truck because it's got to get to the next place or it's got to get offloaded and get set up. 00:10:07.231 --> 00:10:14.490 So get in your phone and figure out who nearby is going to sell you four tons of mulch to put on the ground and make it happen. 00:10:14.490 --> 00:10:16.740 So that's the adrenaline. 00:10:16.740 --> 00:10:18.244 That is exciting. 00:10:18.244 --> 00:10:22.552 But, to your point, that happens every single day. 00:10:22.552 --> 00:10:27.932 And that's not just closing one deal in real estate where you got to wait six weeks and sell a house or whatever it might be. 00:10:27.932 --> 00:10:32.480 Every single day you got to buy the mulch right. 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:39.250 So there's always something that happens and it's fun to think outside the box and make all that stuff happen. 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:41.004 Well, let's go deeper on this, then. 00:10:41.004 --> 00:11:07.260 Let's go deeper on this then. 00:11:07.260 --> 00:11:15.426 I love the idea of, following a concert tour, for example, that the circus has to start at seven o'clock and you've got 30 000 people waiting for the main act to come on stage and the show must go on. 00:11:15.426 --> 00:11:30.307 So how do you like think through that sequence of tear down, pack up, drive, unpack, set up, perform, repeat, and it's all happening Like, help the novice who doesn't know anything about that? 00:11:30.307 --> 00:11:32.211 Like, what does it actually look like? 00:11:33.561 --> 00:11:35.182 Very little sleep to start. 00:11:35.182 --> 00:11:41.033 No, so I mean, it's all in the planning elements. 00:11:41.033 --> 00:11:53.769 The execution is obviously incredibly important, but the planning components are, I would say, more important, because if you don't go through the planning pieces of making this all happen, your execution is going to fall to complete crap. 00:11:53.769 --> 00:12:02.868 Um, so, like you said, there's load offload, drive, show, load offload, drive, drive, rinse and repeat. 00:12:02.868 --> 00:12:04.710 Um, show, load offload, drive, drive, rinse and repeat. 00:12:04.710 --> 00:12:06.513 It's not. 00:12:06.513 --> 00:12:13.840 It sounds easy but it's not right. 00:12:13.860 --> 00:12:15.446 So there's inventory that needs to be tracked. 00:12:15.446 --> 00:12:17.051 You need to make sure the mileage makes sense. 00:12:17.051 --> 00:12:18.495 There's so many different components that go into this. 00:12:18.495 --> 00:12:32.863 And then you're acting not only as a transportation provider but also as a consultant to your clients or the tour or the band, whatever it might be, because they don't know or they don't think about it, like I'm sure you see this all the time. 00:12:32.903 --> 00:12:39.985 Logistics is one of the highest cost centers for any company, but also oftentimes the very last thing that's ever thought about. 00:12:40.506 --> 00:13:03.673 So if you have Shakira that comes in as a client and says I want to perform in Miami, and then a client and says I want to perform in Miami and then three days later I want to perform in LA, you're going to tell her either a that's not possible, or you're going to spend six million dollars moving your show from Miami to LA, or, if you want a nine day gap, that six million dollars is going to drop down to I don don't know 600,000, right? 00:13:03.673 --> 00:13:10.230 Because you're moving 30 truckloads instead of eight dedicated 747s, right? 00:13:10.230 --> 00:13:18.115 So there's so many different things in the planning component that have to be looked at and thought through to make sure everything works. 00:13:18.115 --> 00:13:27.831 Sometimes money doesn't matter, and people will tell you that until they're blue in the face, but when they get the invoice, that narrative changes a lot. 00:13:27.831 --> 00:13:28.812 So money does matter. 00:13:28.812 --> 00:13:40.591 So we always want to be forward thinking, both in terms of efficiencies, cost and how to make it as easy as possible for everyone. 00:13:40.591 --> 00:13:41.211 How do you break? 00:13:41.201 --> 00:13:43.510 into the let's just stick on the music theme, because I think most people would find a lot of interest in that. 00:13:43.510 --> 00:13:43.971 So you mentioned Shakira. 00:13:43.971 --> 00:13:45.671 How do you break into the let's just stick on the music theme, cause I think most people would be. 00:13:45.671 --> 00:13:47.114 We'll find a lot of interest in that. 00:13:47.114 --> 00:13:47.995 So you mentioned Shakira. 00:13:47.995 --> 00:13:57.123 How do you even get into the professional touring logistics space to to get a job or to get not a job to get a customer? 00:13:58.245 --> 00:14:00.392 I told you that I'd have to kill you Cause I'm creating my own. 00:14:00.392 --> 00:14:04.121 It's a tough break. 00:14:04.121 --> 00:14:04.482 It's. 00:14:04.482 --> 00:14:09.322 It's pretty hard, hard so, for we've been doing this for about 10 years over the time. 00:14:09.322 --> 00:14:20.460 Um, when we first got our start, the company that rory and I worked at, they became our first client, um, and then all of the vendors that serviced that race, that event also became clients. 00:14:20.620 --> 00:14:24.469 So we we started in a very different place than we're at now. 00:14:24.469 --> 00:14:35.928 We started more so like with tenting and things that happen at small town races, and over time we really learned the production world and we knew the production world because we came from it. 00:14:35.928 --> 00:14:38.663 Um, and we both have a passion for music. 00:14:38.663 --> 00:14:43.860 So that's where we knew we wanted to be and that's where we knew the larger jobs were. 00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:53.008 So we started going to all of these different conferences where these people were and you just need one shot, right. 00:14:53.008 --> 00:14:54.349 So like you get it. 00:14:54.349 --> 00:14:56.210 You get on well with somebody. 00:14:56.210 --> 00:15:11.063 They give you one shot and then they give you two shots and then they give you three shots and then you kind of scale from there and then, once you're in with that person, that person knows somebody who's like oh hey, I was working with these guys Like they did a good job. 00:15:11.125 --> 00:15:24.727 They they did what they said that they were going to do, which is unfortunately really uncommon, um, and when they gave us a bill, the bill was what they said it was going to be again, which is unfortunately really uncommon. 00:15:31.299 --> 00:15:32.341 So we just kind of snowballed from there. 00:15:32.341 --> 00:15:37.734 We got a couple, we got a handful of one shots and they really grew and our business also grew alongside with a lot of our clients. 00:15:37.734 --> 00:16:00.461 So we scaled as they scaled, but persistence, like anything, persistence is key, likeability is key and I think for us, a huge selling point is that we've we've been there and we get it and we know, um, we're not calling on companies like your regular freight shop who just wants to move a load. 00:16:00.461 --> 00:16:23.865 For me to be like we can assimilate with these people because we've been there, like like the story with the olive oil, everyone maybe not olive oil, but like everyone's been in that crappy situation, um, and we can speak to it from being on the other side on the in the client shoes, versus some guy in an office in Chicago who's screaming at a carrier on the phone and it's like why is it olive oil Right? 00:16:23.885 --> 00:16:24.894 So it's like I know what it a carrier on the phone. 00:16:24.894 --> 00:16:25.418 It's like olive oil, right. 00:16:25.418 --> 00:16:27.684 It's like I know what it's like on the other side. 00:16:27.684 --> 00:16:34.791 Um, and I can lead with empathy in that, and I'm not, I'm going to sit here and be a straight shooter Like things are going to happen. 00:16:34.791 --> 00:16:35.921 This is logistics. 00:16:35.921 --> 00:16:38.044 This is not perfection. 00:16:38.044 --> 00:16:43.493 Like we can do, we can cross our T's and dot our I's as much as we possibly can. 00:16:43.493 --> 00:16:48.955 Something's going to happen, yeah, and you communicate that right, like you can't communicate. 00:16:48.955 --> 00:16:53.847 Nobody's perfect, whether it's logistics, it's finance, it's technology. 00:16:54.389 --> 00:17:01.596 It's a podcast, although Nate you're pretty perfect, but something's going to happen always, right. 00:17:01.596 --> 00:17:08.550 So as long as we communicate that on the front end it sucks while it's happening, but people will understand. 00:17:08.550 --> 00:17:21.260 And then when you do the recap at the end of the year and you're saying, you know, hey, our failure rate was one and a half percent or whatever it is, um, they're like cool, that's pretty good, but it sure as hell sucked in the moment. 00:17:21.601 --> 00:17:29.523 Yeah, I'm sure when people hear what you do for a living, they immediately go, oh, that's so cool and they get stars in their eyes about. 00:17:29.523 --> 00:17:38.702 You must brush shoulders with famous people occasionally and get to be backstage and see all sorts of cool things, but I like how you shared. 00:17:38.702 --> 00:17:52.171 99% of what you do is the 3 am incident or, you know, a forklift in the mud, and yet I've got to be honest, I'm still super curious about the cool parts. 00:17:52.371 --> 00:17:55.484 So you said, yeah, the cool parts are great, right, like, it's definitely. 00:17:55.484 --> 00:17:56.728 It's sexy. 00:17:56.728 --> 00:18:13.525 Right Like if you work for or work at a different logistics company and I don't know say the Gap is your biggest client you're picking up a container of sweaters at the port and you're rushing to get them delivered to a DC so they don't give you a charge back. 00:18:13.525 --> 00:18:36.122 Our people are so excited and motivated by what they do every day because we are delivering happiness and joy to hundreds of thousands of people every single day, directly or indirectly, right, and that's what is sexy and cool and exciting and keeps us going. 00:18:36.122 --> 00:18:45.690 And that's why we want to go find four tons of mulch to put under the forklift so that we can deliver the joy to those people. 00:18:47.019 --> 00:18:49.086 And it's not just us, it's not just people in the office. 00:18:49.086 --> 00:18:55.592 We have people on the road that are traveling and making sure stuff's going okay with our drivers, and it's also the drivers, right? 00:18:55.592 --> 00:18:58.224 So we are asset-based in brokerage. 00:18:58.224 --> 00:19:13.212 Our asset-based guys know and get it, and then on the broker side, these guys know and get it, and then on the broker side, um, we really drive in the buy-in from drivers and carriers, whether we're using them once or they're a common carrier for us. 00:19:13.212 --> 00:19:22.308 Right, like these poor guys are so used to just bumping docks and delivering, you know, a truckload of pasta or whatever it might be. 00:19:22.308 --> 00:19:23.571 It's not exciting. 00:19:24.894 --> 00:19:32.192 We kind of pride ourselves on paying our carriers and our drivers really well and letting them know what they're doing. 00:19:32.192 --> 00:19:35.868 Like, hey man, you're delivering a part of the stage for Luke Combs. 00:19:35.868 --> 00:19:41.471 And then it's like, oh my God, I love Luke Combs, that's cool, this is great. 00:19:41.471 --> 00:19:42.714 And they're excited. 00:19:42.714 --> 00:19:50.352 And if something happens and they got to sit on site for five hours, you're not dealing with, I need detention, blah, blah. 00:19:50.352 --> 00:20:01.483 It's like they're excited because they're delivering for luke combs and and that's their guy, they love that song they're gonna go down the road 1100 miles and they're gonna blare luke combs the whole way and then they're gonna tell their kids about it. 00:20:01.884 --> 00:20:04.148 A hundred percent and that and like. 00:20:04.148 --> 00:20:06.333 For us that brings joy. 00:20:06.333 --> 00:20:11.586 Yeah, cause you're making a difference in in so many people's lives. 00:20:12.320 --> 00:20:14.344 Have you been starstruck? 00:20:14.364 --> 00:20:44.681 Yeah, any times like yes, I mean I, I don't go to every single show, yeah, or even tons right, because the, the phones and the computer need to be working yeah yeah, but I will say like, when stuff comes through and and we win quotes or we or we work on tour quotes, or whatever it is, in the beginning it's like, oh my God, this is insane. 00:20:44.681 --> 00:20:51.911 We just moved something for Beyonce or Dave Matthews Band or Phish or whatever it might be. 00:20:51.911 --> 00:20:56.751 Now you become a little jaded. 00:20:57.875 --> 00:21:06.153 Sure, sure but there is times where you'll set back and be like I just sent a massive quote to Post Malone, Like this is incredible. 00:21:06.153 --> 00:21:19.996 Um or a couple of years ago, Swedish house mafia was headlining at Coachella and we did a ton of trucking for them, and when we won the job, this is I don two years ago, three years ago. 00:21:19.996 --> 00:21:21.246 So we've been doing this for a long time. 00:21:21.246 --> 00:21:27.929 At that point I think I played the same song on repeat on my desk for like eight hours because I was so excited. 00:21:27.929 --> 00:21:31.018 So there's still things that that happen. 00:21:31.318 --> 00:21:35.288 There's absolutely well, and there's also, you said, jaded. 00:21:35.288 --> 00:21:39.439 The entertainment industry by itself is complicated. 00:21:39.439 --> 00:21:55.338 It's a business and there are also creators and artists and folks that are bringing wonderful things into existence and sharing it with the world, and that all has to interact economically in order for it to work. 00:21:55.338 --> 00:21:57.946 And then you also get. 00:21:57.946 --> 00:22:02.851 I mean, I've been fortunate to spend some time around professional athletes in my career. 00:22:02.851 --> 00:22:12.778 I was able to ship a fire truck to South America for Johan Santana, who at the time was the number one pitcher in all of Major League Baseball. 00:22:12.778 --> 00:22:21.384 He'd won two Cy Youngs two years in a row and he had a charity in Venezuela and I was working at CH Robinson at the time. 00:22:21.384 --> 00:22:23.628 We shipped that fire truck down to Venezuela. 00:22:23.628 --> 00:22:25.595 I got to go down and spend a week at his house. 00:22:25.595 --> 00:22:31.540 I met his family, his kids, his extended family and they had a festival in town. 00:22:31.540 --> 00:22:40.356 And then the year later I went back and we did it again with supplies for a hospital, and so I got to spend a bunch of time around famous people. 00:22:41.198 --> 00:22:47.516 And at first you're like, oh my goodness, they're heroes, they're flawless, they're perfect. 00:22:47.516 --> 00:23:01.679 And then you realize over time, no, they're human beings and at a certain point they get tired of the spotlight and they just want to be left alone and enjoy their time with their families and live semi-normal lives. 00:23:01.679 --> 00:23:19.078 And shifting from being a fan of a person to being I wouldn't go as far as to say friends, but friendly and to develop a short-term relationship anyways, was eye-opening for me because I thought it was something different. 00:23:19.078 --> 00:23:27.646 And then you get up close and that was just a couple of experiences that I had and then you realize even Beyonce, she's working. 00:23:27.646 --> 00:23:38.391 When she's doing a concert, she's at her job and so sure, her job is cool, but it's also a ton of work. 00:23:38.391 --> 00:23:45.208 And you got 20 or 30,000 people that have been saving money for a couple of months. 00:23:45.208 --> 00:23:47.955 Maybe it's their first concert and they're 15 years old. 00:23:48.465 --> 00:23:50.906 Usually 70,000, but yeah 70,000. 00:23:50.967 --> 00:23:56.538 Okay, I'm in Minneapolis, our biggest stadium, maybe, I think it's 55. 00:23:57.425 --> 00:23:58.067 Bank's pretty big. 00:23:58.067 --> 00:23:59.313 How big is US Bank? 00:24:02.846 --> 00:24:04.108 Yeah, you're right, us Bank is probably, probably. 00:24:04.148 --> 00:24:06.074 I mean, I should know the answer is probably 70 000. 00:24:06.074 --> 00:24:12.115 Yeah, like excel, we actually have a whole job loading into us bank on saturday um so free tickets. 00:24:12.154 --> 00:24:13.116 Do I get a hookup? 00:24:13.116 --> 00:24:13.698 How does that work? 00:24:13.904 --> 00:24:19.076 I would love to say I'm just kidding, but you know doing this for so long. 00:24:19.076 --> 00:24:22.935 That is the number one question that we get asked oh really every day. 00:24:22.935 --> 00:24:23.699 Hey, can we get tickets? 00:24:23.699 --> 00:24:24.281 Can we get tickets? 00:24:24.281 --> 00:24:24.904 Can we get tickets? 00:24:24.904 --> 00:24:26.671 And it's like first off. 00:24:26.671 --> 00:24:27.875 No, like we're. 00:24:27.875 --> 00:24:38.546 We're too far removed to get the free tickets ourselves all the time and we never want to ask that question to yeah, they're your customer they're a customer. 00:24:38.566 --> 00:24:44.375 they're paying us a lot of money like I, if, if I wanted to get the ticket, like I'll get the ticket. 00:24:44.375 --> 00:25:02.830 Um, we, part of our company, and our culture too, is like, we make sure everyone goes on site at least minimum once a year during a build or during a loadout, so that they can, like, get their hands dirty and be on and and learn and see what happens. 00:25:02.830 --> 00:25:05.912 Um, cause it just makes doing your job that much better. 00:25:05.912 --> 00:25:09.609 Yeah, um, that's one side of the token. 00:25:09.609 --> 00:25:17.874 The other side is, um, as, like a work perk, we give everybody to free, free tickets to whatever show they want to go to throughout the year. 00:25:17.874 --> 00:25:22.409 Um, and when I say free, they just say, hey, I want to go to the show, and like, if we have a relationship. 00:25:22.429 --> 00:25:24.929 we'll ask, and if we don't, then we buy it. 00:25:26.705 --> 00:25:27.288 But I do. 00:25:27.288 --> 00:25:42.954 I do have to ask, though what's your favorite memory from maybe the early days when it when you were maybe a bit more idealistic or you got to listen to a band that meant a lot to you or something? 00:25:42.954 --> 00:25:46.394 Is there a moment that sticks out where it felt maybe pure or simpler? 00:25:47.115 --> 00:26:03.769 Yeah, so one of our original biggest clients used to do a music festival in Dover, delaware, and within the first year we were on had, like these, all access VIP tickets Myself and my partner at the time. 00:26:03.769 --> 00:26:13.194 It was a little, the company was literally just the two of us and it was very much like, like I said before, fake it till you make it, and we sounded a lot bigger than we were, but it was truly just the two of us. 00:26:13.194 --> 00:26:16.432 We had an amazing time on site. 00:26:16.432 --> 00:26:22.788 I saw Chance the Rapper and it was like the coolest thing ever because it was like I was involved with this. 00:26:22.788 --> 00:26:28.386 Then drove back home at the time, the company was based in New York city. 00:26:28.386 --> 00:26:29.189 We're not anymore. 00:26:29.189 --> 00:26:41.617 We drove back home to New York and then two days later, during load out, get this email and it was like hey, chance needs to move his motorcycle from chicago to la. 00:26:41.617 --> 00:26:43.405 Um, can you guys do this? 00:26:43.405 --> 00:26:46.451 It was like absolutely like I am. 00:26:46.833 --> 00:27:10.614 I'm so high right now, um on life like this is the coolest thing ever, um, and things like that happen all the time, but like this was in the early days, I feel like it was one of the first like really cool things that we did and it was coming off of like being at this festival that we really helped put on Um and that like all. 00:27:10.614 --> 00:27:14.689 There's a lot of moments like that, but I feel like that's one that I'll I'll probably always remember. 00:27:15.590 --> 00:27:17.115 So how do you hold on to? 00:27:17.115 --> 00:27:19.685 Now you're 10 years into your entrepreneurial journey. 00:27:19.685 --> 00:27:22.347 You have You've learned a lot of operational lessons. 00:27:22.347 --> 00:27:26.050 You've learned, I'm sure, accounting and finance differently than you did in the beginning. 00:27:26.050 --> 00:27:40.362 You've learned people, management and at times it can, for some, start to feel like a different kind of hamster wheel, almost Like some people complain about their job and their career and stuff. 00:27:40.362 --> 00:27:43.874 Well, for entrepreneurs, it can reach that same point. 00:27:43.874 --> 00:27:52.510 They just can't talk about it because that's their, and you can't just like, hey, I'm going to change jobs and go do something different. 00:27:52.510 --> 00:27:59.213 No, you are married to this, and so that's why I'm leaning in a little bit more on your 10 years in. 00:27:59.213 --> 00:28:14.520 How do you stay disciplined, how do you stay connected to your purpose of finding the impact that you have on people, going to a concert and being able to say, hey, I played a small part in that. 00:28:14.520 --> 00:28:24.531 How do you not stay cynical or anything like that, as just as an entrepreneur, it's really it's a good question. 00:28:24.744 --> 00:28:30.458 It's really really hard because you can get jaded really easily. 00:28:30.458 --> 00:28:32.190 It's really tough. 00:28:32.190 --> 00:28:38.559 So, and there's so many days I'll wake up and sit down at my desk and be like well, another day of going to battle. 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:41.906 Right, got 300 emails to deal with. 00:28:41.906 --> 00:28:44.732 I've got this P&L explosion. 00:28:44.732 --> 00:28:47.398 My accountant's screaming at me for this. 00:28:47.398 --> 00:28:49.426 This load got lost. 00:28:49.426 --> 00:28:52.750 We owe $15,000 for whatever mistake. 00:28:52.750 --> 00:28:55.813 This customer hasn't paid their bill in 90 days. 00:28:55.813 --> 00:28:58.135 There's a trillion things. 00:28:58.717 --> 00:29:13.756 It sounds goofy, but getting up and walking and getting exercise for me is so important and so helpful in keeping a fresh mind. 00:29:13.756 --> 00:29:18.189 My business partner and I have an incredible relationship. 00:29:18.189 --> 00:29:34.944 We talk all day, every day, and hardly ever disagree on things or fight, which is super refreshing, and we are truly each other's therapists to kind of get through the day, the week, the month, which is incredible. 00:29:34.944 --> 00:29:37.493 We're both really fortunate to have each other. 00:29:37.493 --> 00:30:03.796 I don't think that I can do this completely on my own, and the other thing is go to site every now and then we're loading in for F1 right now in Miami, and on Tuesday of this week I went up, shook a couple hands, said hi, got a little tour of what we brought in and what they're building and you leave and you're excited and you remember why you did it. 00:30:03.796 --> 00:30:06.909 It's very hard to remember. 00:30:06.909 --> 00:30:23.574 While you're head down in a spreadsheet or on the phone all day or leading a team meeting or, like you said, an accounting problem, an HR problem, you know this person on your team doesn't get along with this person on your team and you got to deal with that. 00:30:23.574 --> 00:30:27.449 So, listen, those are things about running a business that just are inevitable. 00:30:27.449 --> 00:30:28.372 They have to happen. 00:30:28.372 --> 00:30:39.769 But to have the ability to both have a business partner who you can trust and respect and talk to all the time candidly incredibly helpful. 00:30:39.769 --> 00:30:48.724 And to force yourself to get away and to get on job sites every now and then and meet with clients also super helpful. 00:30:48.724 --> 00:30:53.096 And it gives you that reminder of why you do what you do. 00:30:55.467 --> 00:31:05.900 We also now have two warehouses, so to get into our shops and to see everything that's there, it's like it makes you feel so much more involved. 00:31:05.900 --> 00:31:18.614 Like for the last year we had a massive Lollapalooza sign in our warehouse in Nashville and every time I'd get up and pace in between meetings throughout the warehouse. 00:31:18.614 --> 00:31:23.609 It's like you just kind of take a step back and you think, like this is really cool. 00:31:23.609 --> 00:31:26.275 Like, what we're doing is really cool. 00:31:26.976 --> 00:31:48.708 Um, like there's there's massive Lollapalooza sign on a rack and then, right next to that, I've got 25 road cases with red hot chili pepper stickers on them, because for the red hot chili peppers, um, and it allows you to take a breath, and you're like I just I can't believe, like I have the chills, like I I can't believe that this is what's happened. 00:31:48.708 --> 00:31:51.113 Um, it's my career. 00:31:51.113 --> 00:31:51.973 It's really cool. 00:31:51.973 --> 00:32:11.835 Um, but to your point, like taking a step back and getting away from, like the accounting and the HR and the whatever mumbo jumbo administrative thing is going on, and to remember the, that kind of stuff, um is, is is cool and exciting, and that's that's what keeps me going. 00:32:12.326 --> 00:32:24.385 I think that's what keeps me going to it in sharing stories is you're talking about exercise and walking and, physically, how you take care of yourself. 00:32:24.385 --> 00:32:32.772 You've got a co-founder and somebody that you can talk with to deal with some of the emotional and psychological challenges of entrepreneurship. 00:32:32.772 --> 00:32:39.351 You're not doing it alone, and then you're also connecting that back to something bigger than yourself. 00:32:39.351 --> 00:32:58.380 You've got a version of purpose that works for you, that can be your kind of reserve fuel tank when the primary one drains 100%, and so that is a combination, for I don't want to say like success, but it's a combination for longevity. 00:32:58.380 --> 00:33:01.394 10 years is a long time to do anything. 00:33:02.184 --> 00:33:02.965 Longevity is important. 00:33:02.965 --> 00:33:17.967 Um, and burnout is 100% a real thing and the two of us, um, my partner and I have totally gotten to like those points of physical and mental exhaustion more times that I can count. 00:33:17.967 --> 00:33:26.028 But we also hold ourselves accountable and check each other and when those things happen, force each other to take a trip, go on vacation, take days off, whatever it is. 00:33:26.028 --> 00:33:35.873 But that said, we're both such insane workaholics that we never really put down the phone or put down your email or whatever it might be like. 00:33:35.873 --> 00:33:47.657 So we really do try to force ourselves, now that we're fortunate enough to have a big enough team, that that the shop can run, not fully without us, but without us a little bit. 00:33:47.657 --> 00:34:02.281 Um is is immensely helpful so we can try to like reconnect in our personal relationships, in our personal lives, and not be fucked in 24-7, 365. 00:34:02.281 --> 00:34:07.317 But as a founder you are, because the buck does stop with you. 00:34:08.244 --> 00:34:10.293 I think it's helpful for others to hear that too. 00:34:10.293 --> 00:34:16.418 We're talking a little bit about celebrity and the appeal of being close to that. 00:34:16.418 --> 00:34:24.932 Entrepreneurs get some of that too, and I'm admittedly guilty at times of putting entrepreneurs on a pedestal, but they're just people too. 00:34:24.932 --> 00:34:28.309 I'm inspired and motivated by entrepreneurs myself. 00:34:28.309 --> 00:34:35.769 Maybe that's why I get starstruck sometimes hearing people's stories, because I find it so compelling. 00:34:35.769 --> 00:34:46.076 But for others to of just the realities, of what it takes and the sacrifices that it requires in order for you to get to this point. 00:34:46.076 --> 00:34:59.539 I often talk about inspiring other people to take that leap, and yet that's an unfair representation sometimes of what it's really going to be, because the stars are in their eyes early on. 00:34:59.539 --> 00:35:10.235 But the truth is it's going to be four times harder, it's going to take five times longer and it's not going to go the way you planned it to never ever, ever go the way that you planned it. 00:35:10.295 --> 00:35:13.528 I can say that with complete and utter confidence. 00:35:14.030 --> 00:35:25.693 Um, both for the good and the bad yeah um, I had never thought that we'd have almost 20 people working with us, a warehouse in Vegas, a warehouse in Nashville and all of these things in a million years. 00:35:25.693 --> 00:35:28.469 I wouldn't have thought that Our revenues where they are. 00:35:28.469 --> 00:35:30.516 None of these things I would have expected. 00:35:30.516 --> 00:35:48.077 On the flip side of the token, I wouldn't have expected a global pandemic to come through in 2020 and overnight slash our revenue 70% and somehow still managed to hold on. 00:35:48.077 --> 00:35:56.798 So I mean again, like as an entrepreneur, as a founder, the buck does start with you, right. 00:35:56.798 --> 00:36:11.061 So it's like to maintain through something like COVID and then also be able to successfully scale, because so many companies, as they're growing, just can't manage the growth and explode. 00:36:11.885 --> 00:36:31.836 So we've, over the last 10 years, experienced complete both sides of the card and it adds a lot of gray hairs to your head you do have quite a few gray hairs for someone your age, I'm not gonna lie, I did notice, um, but I also don't have any hair, and I work in logistics too, so I think we're a good pair. 00:36:31.836 --> 00:36:46.336 Um last kind of personal question about all of this given where you started 10 years ago and where you are now, when do you feel like you're at your best nowadays? 00:36:46.356 --> 00:36:54.128 Yeah, like personally, professionally or Yep, all of it. 00:36:54.168 --> 00:36:55.030 Like where, where? 00:36:55.030 --> 00:36:56.795 Where are you at your best? 00:36:56.795 --> 00:36:58.077 Maybe like what, what? 00:36:58.077 --> 00:37:14.458 What does a day look like when you are optimizing yourself and you feel like you're in the pocket and you're dialed in and you're having fun while doing something at a really high skill level? 00:37:14.458 --> 00:37:15.018 What is that? 00:37:15.018 --> 00:37:16.806 Maybe it's mastery. 00:37:16.806 --> 00:37:22.539 Like where do you feel like you are the most effective and enjoying it? 00:37:23.025 --> 00:37:50.329 Yeah, I think for me, so much of logistics is kind of being a puppet master right, like you're controlling so many different things in so many different parts of either the world or the continent, whatever it is, um, and ultimately like that a puppet master is, is my job right, like I have to control all of these elements, and a lot of those elements are things that are kind of out of your control. 00:37:50.329 --> 00:37:54.108 But you can get them to be like 75% the way they're, 80%, the way they're in. 00:37:54.108 --> 00:37:56.695 The rest is like well, we'll see what happens. 00:37:56.695 --> 00:38:19.130 Um, for me, success is driven by being able to be that puppet master, um, and have my entire team, every driver, every warehouse, every load in, every load out, every client, run without me. 00:38:19.471 --> 00:38:37.947 So build systems and processes and have everyone understand what their role is, what they need to do to continue to deliver the way the company wants to operate, without having to call me every six minutes. 00:38:37.947 --> 00:39:17.708 If I can get everyone to that level and I'm not the type of person who would just go, hang out and go away but if I can manage everyone from afar and make sure everyone knows their purpose, knows what they're doing and knows how to execute, that, for me is how I can create success and have the place run in a way that it should be running, it's efficient, it's communicative, it's profitable all of those key pillars. 00:39:17.708 --> 00:39:28.715 If I can lead that and make sure all of the pieces of the puzzle are attaching together the right way, that's I guess you could call it like. 00:39:28.715 --> 00:39:29.637 That's my happy place. 00:39:30.804 --> 00:39:31.726 And that's logistics. 00:39:31.726 --> 00:39:32.666 You just nailed it. 00:39:32.666 --> 00:39:44.782 I mean getting all of those pieces in place and functioning properly and working together in concert, no pun intended, is that's part of what makes this so interesting. 00:39:44.782 --> 00:39:50.248 I also know you've got some big news You've just opened a new facility in Vegas. 00:39:50.248 --> 00:39:58.766 So you've got kind of the two entertainment capitals two of the three maybe, or I guess I don't know how many there are if you throw in Nashville, new York and Vegas. 00:39:58.766 --> 00:40:04.407 But what have you been doing in Vegas lately and what excites you about the future of Yolk? 00:40:05.088 --> 00:40:05.389 Yeah. 00:40:05.469 --> 00:40:09.818 So I think I'll start with Vegas and then go to the future. 00:40:09.818 --> 00:40:12.956 So in Vegas, we just closed on a building. 00:40:12.956 --> 00:40:17.172 It's 15 minutes south of the strip, so we're in an awesome location. 00:40:17.172 --> 00:40:26.719 It's 10 acres, we have 150 trailer parking spots, all paved, gated, secured, and almost 40,000 square feet of warehouse. 00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:38.692 So, as we talked about right before this, like the puppet master skills, got to a place where, like people were, people knew what they were doing within our four walls. 00:40:38.692 --> 00:40:43.735 So Rory and I my partner we're just like, okay, what, what's next? 00:40:43.735 --> 00:40:44.076 Right? 00:40:44.076 --> 00:40:46.018 Like how can we keep this going? 00:40:46.018 --> 00:40:52.882 Because our day to day needs are not as high as they used to be to run the transport side of things. 00:41:00.664 --> 00:41:02.048 So we invested in this building and the sole purpose is to. 00:41:02.048 --> 00:41:03.172 It's called show services and storage. 00:41:03.172 --> 00:41:07.983 The sole purpose is to provide services to shows within the storage space, right? 00:41:07.983 --> 00:41:16.344 So for so long, we found a void on the West coast for trailer parking and short-term storage. 00:41:16.344 --> 00:41:27.673 And and if a band is in the in between a tour and they ignore to stash their gear, they would send it all the way back to the East coast, to where they know, and then all the way back to the West coast and spending all this money on trucking. 00:41:27.673 --> 00:41:37.260 So there's a ton of opportunity there um to define what the future of entertainment logistics looks like. 00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:44.938 We did the same thing in Nashville, on a much, much, much smaller scale, and found success in that, and our building is full. 00:41:44.938 --> 00:42:01.213 Not only does it help artists and customers with a direct need in terms of storage, but it builds a much stickier relationship between us and them in terms of long-term transport. 00:42:01.534 --> 00:42:04.005 So that's what's going on in Vegas. 00:42:04.005 --> 00:42:11.476 We'll also have plans to have a small like onsite mechanic shop. 00:42:11.476 --> 00:42:26.556 Any tour or any really anyone that operates in logistics knows that equipment goes bad and equipment needs help, whether it's the tractor, it's the trailer, it's a pallet that fell apart, whatever it is. 00:42:26.556 --> 00:42:35.335 So we're working to outsource an onsite mobile mechanic so he can service everyone in the yard. 00:42:35.335 --> 00:42:39.028 So it's a completely vertically integrated location. 00:42:39.028 --> 00:43:03.427 So when there's a trailer in the yard and a driver comes to hook it up, to bring it to a stadium in LA and says, oh no, there's a tire that's blown on this trailer because the last driver just didn't want to deal with it and dropped it and didn't tell anybody, we can get it fixed on site instead of having to call around, wait five hours for somebody to show up and then all of a sudden that trailer's late. 00:43:03.427 --> 00:43:05.530 So that's what's going on in Vegas. 00:43:07.092 --> 00:43:15.036 As far as the future of Yoke Transport goes, for a long time we've been on a brokerage only model. 00:43:15.036 --> 00:43:21.318 In the last 18 months we've started investing into assets, both on tractors and in trailers. 00:43:21.318 --> 00:43:29.768 We have more trailers right now than we have tractors, but the idea around that is to build our brand and to do more tours. 00:43:29.768 --> 00:43:34.516 We're really successful in what we call the spot freight market. 00:43:34.516 --> 00:43:39.173 Uh, so we do a ton for heavy infrastructure, for events. 00:43:39.173 --> 00:43:40.416 That's kind of our sweet spot. 00:43:40.416 --> 00:43:54.177 Um, we've done a lot of touring, but with our own assets and with our own trailers will really help us break more and more and more into the touring market, um, to win more of those bids. 00:43:54.177 --> 00:44:01.398 So that's that's sort of where we're going next with with our growth plans on the transportation side. 00:44:02.166 --> 00:44:03.750 That is all very exciting stuff. 00:44:03.750 --> 00:44:11.277 I mean, you, you're on your own rise to fame in this, in this industry and in this journey, is it's just you know? 00:44:11.824 --> 00:44:17.677 I don't know about that, but we're certainly trying to make a name for ourselves, um, and, and we've done that, we've totally done that. 00:44:18.585 --> 00:44:19.327 What does yoke mean? 00:44:19.327 --> 00:44:19.768 By the way? 00:44:20.670 --> 00:44:22.733 So yoke is um. 00:44:22.733 --> 00:44:25.806 It's like a wooden plank between two ox that's carrying. 00:44:25.826 --> 00:44:26.547 Yeah. 00:44:26.788 --> 00:44:47.356 So we in our office in Nashville we have we have a giant yoke above the door and when we started the company in 16, we're like spitballing a million names and a million logos, and this is where we landed and we liked it because the two ox are connected and they're carrying something right. 00:44:47.356 --> 00:44:49.626 So, like yoke, what do we do? 00:44:49.626 --> 00:44:56.030 We connect people, we connect shippers with carriers, we connect tours with warehouse space. 00:44:56.030 --> 00:45:00.889 So I mean, all we're doing all day is connecting people and we're hauling stuff. 00:45:00.889 --> 00:45:04.655 So we thought that the word yoke was a really good fit. 00:45:05.416 --> 00:45:07.139 And brings it all together Exactly. 00:45:07.139 --> 00:45:10.534 It's also a pretty heavy burden that you have to carry too. 00:45:12.284 --> 00:45:15.092 Thanks for that you're welcome. 00:45:15.893 --> 00:45:19.373 Um, I'd love the chance to meet your co-founder at some point. 00:45:19.373 --> 00:45:25.514 Uh, the the other half of the, the two horsepower yeah, a lot of people call us burton, ernie. 00:45:26.115 --> 00:45:31.150 Um, okay, tbd, which one's burton, which one's ernie, but um, we get, we get that a lot. 00:45:31.150 --> 00:45:51.831 So rory is kind of like we're both very personal outgoing bubbly people but rory's the one who like very much, holds a lot of like the strong customer relationships and really focuses on revenue driving stuff um, and I'm the one that kind of keeps the shop together and moving in the right direction. 00:45:52.030 --> 00:46:00.096 So hiring numbers forecasts administration, all the fun, all the non fun stuff for most people. 00:46:00.244 --> 00:46:04.092 Yeah, all the boring stuff, but in a weird way I like it. 00:46:04.092 --> 00:46:12.498 Maybe that's like the original push to like try to force myself into a finance box, but now I got a little bit of the best of both worlds. 00:46:12.498 --> 00:46:16.630 Finance box, but now I got a little bit of the best of both worlds. 00:46:16.630 --> 00:46:24.072 So I definitely wear a lot of different hats but as we continue to scale and grow and passing the wand of those hats to others which is really hard to do, but I'm getting better. 00:46:24.974 --> 00:46:25.717 Well, this has been. 00:46:25.717 --> 00:46:31.436 I knew it was going to be interesting just based on the subject matter of what you do. 00:46:31.436 --> 00:46:35.731 Going to be interesting just based on the subject matter of what you do. 00:46:35.731 --> 00:46:37.054 But you are also very interesting, josh. 00:46:37.054 --> 00:46:40.963 You have a neat way of articulating um kind of how you see the world. 00:46:40.963 --> 00:46:48.461 In my opinion, and you recognize, I mean logistics is a support function in any or. 00:46:48.461 --> 00:46:57.237 It's not the main thing, unless it's a freight brokerage or a trucking company than it is, but other than that, it is there to to be the plate upon which the entree is served. 00:46:57.237 --> 00:47:10.534 And so, on behalf of the concert attending public, I'd like to say thank you, and on behalf of our listeners and the other founders that I know um aspiring and active and former um. 00:47:10.534 --> 00:47:12.606