1 00:00:33,265 --> 00:00:35,273 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to 2 00:00:35,313 --> 00:00:37,921 Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it 3 00:00:37,942 --> 00:00:39,649 the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 4 00:00:39,649 --> 00:00:42,563 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and 5 00:00:42,622 --> 00:00:44,069 inspiring others to take the leap. 6 00:00:44,069 --> 00:00:48,010 It's a roller coaster ride that you might ultimately fail. 7 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,567 Speaker 2: That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 8 00:00:51,281 --> 00:00:52,146 Speaker 1: It was very hard. 9 00:00:52,146 --> 00:00:54,548 It truly is building a legacy. 10 00:00:55,260 --> 00:00:57,768 Speaker 2: The more life you live, the more wisdom you have. 11 00:00:58,340 --> 00:01:00,606 Speaker 1: Because we are where we're supposed to be, kind of 12 00:01:00,748 --> 00:01:01,771 answering the call. 13 00:01:01,771 --> 00:01:04,709 Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 14 00:01:04,709 --> 00:01:06,634 I'm your host, Nate Schutz. 15 00:01:06,634 --> 00:01:09,704 Let's build something together from the ground up. 16 00:01:09,704 --> 00:01:14,900 Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Bootstrapper's Guide 17 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:15,621 to Logistics. 18 00:01:15,621 --> 00:01:19,088 We are still doing what we've always done sharing founder 19 00:01:19,109 --> 00:01:21,634 stories, hoping to educate and inspire others. 20 00:01:21,634 --> 00:01:25,468 Some folks are on the fence about whether or not they should 21 00:01:25,468 --> 00:01:29,304 jump into their first business, and then there are others, like 22 00:01:29,304 --> 00:01:32,790 our guest today, Tyson Lawrence , who's the founder and CEO of 23 00:01:32,850 --> 00:01:37,198 Diablo Freight Ventures that are on their third venture, and so 24 00:01:37,278 --> 00:01:40,628 today we're going to unpack parts of his journey, understand 25 00:01:40,628 --> 00:01:43,843 what makes him tick and why he's so bullish about the future 26 00:01:43,843 --> 00:01:46,852 in his third rodeo. 27 00:01:46,852 --> 00:01:49,018 So with that, Tyson, good morning. 28 00:01:49,018 --> 00:01:50,721 It's so good to see you, my friend. 29 00:01:50,721 --> 00:01:52,387 I can't wait to unpack your journey. 30 00:01:52,387 --> 00:01:53,870 How are we finding you today? 31 00:01:55,180 --> 00:01:57,228 Speaker 2: Great Nate, appreciate you having me on. 32 00:01:57,228 --> 00:01:59,846 I've been a fan of the show for a while, so it's kind of a real 33 00:01:59,846 --> 00:02:03,390 honor to be here, and you know I'm a big fan of yours and I 34 00:02:03,430 --> 00:02:06,180 enjoy having conversations with you, so I'm looking forward to 35 00:02:06,242 --> 00:02:06,302 it. 36 00:02:06,783 --> 00:02:07,265 Speaker 1: Same. 37 00:02:07,265 --> 00:02:10,115 I enjoy our conversations because they're wide range and 38 00:02:10,134 --> 00:02:13,328 we talk about everything from family to business, to values 39 00:02:14,531 --> 00:02:15,554 and everything in between. 40 00:02:15,554 --> 00:02:17,819 I think you have a pretty compelling story, because I 41 00:02:17,879 --> 00:02:22,088 already know most of it, but other folks don't, so why don't 42 00:02:22,108 --> 00:02:22,670 we start? 43 00:02:22,670 --> 00:02:25,401 I obviously mentioned this is your third venture. 44 00:02:25,401 --> 00:02:29,711 Why don't you take us first on an overview of what Diablo is, 45 00:02:30,031 --> 00:02:32,103 and then what have you done previously? 46 00:02:33,165 --> 00:02:33,385 Speaker 2: Sure. 47 00:02:33,385 --> 00:02:36,832 So Diablo for me is kind of a culmination of my career to this 48 00:02:36,832 --> 00:02:37,093 point. 49 00:02:37,093 --> 00:02:41,391 I've been in the industry about 25 years and ups and downs, and 50 00:02:41,391 --> 00:02:45,543 I started Diablo to kind of encompass everything that I have 51 00:02:45,543 --> 00:02:48,169 , all the interests that I have in the industry, from some 52 00:02:48,210 --> 00:02:53,026 investments that I have and some industry startups, things like 53 00:02:53,067 --> 00:02:53,287 that. 54 00:02:53,287 --> 00:02:57,694 I do coaching and consulting, you know, m&a to freight 55 00:02:57,740 --> 00:03:01,993 brokerages, to um, and then I have a unishippers franchise 56 00:03:02,193 --> 00:03:02,937 also that. 57 00:03:02,937 --> 00:03:05,925 So it's kind of three separate things all under one umbrella, 58 00:03:06,586 --> 00:03:09,233 um, kind of for me in a given day I'm kind of working on one 59 00:03:09,259 --> 00:03:13,073 of those three things, um, but it keeps me in the kind of in 60 00:03:13,092 --> 00:03:14,195 the ball game a little bit. 61 00:03:14,195 --> 00:03:18,490 And you know that's what I'm doing right now with Diablo 62 00:03:18,569 --> 00:03:18,811 Freight. 63 00:03:19,039 --> 00:03:21,906 But you know, like I said, I got started in the industry 25 64 00:03:21,966 --> 00:03:25,393 years ago, kind of blindly, kind of like a lot of people in 65 00:03:25,552 --> 00:03:26,133 logistics. 66 00:03:26,133 --> 00:03:29,068 You know we find our way to this great industry and then we 67 00:03:29,109 --> 00:03:31,802 can't get out, but nor do I want out out. 68 00:03:31,802 --> 00:03:36,891 But, um, I got hired by ch robinson in 2000, 2001, right 69 00:03:36,912 --> 00:03:40,846 around there, and then kind of got my education, you know, with 70 00:03:40,846 --> 00:03:42,991 them for about two, two and a half years and then realized I 71 00:03:43,050 --> 00:03:46,594 wasn't a real corporate guy, um, and I kind of wanted to get out 72 00:03:46,594 --> 00:03:50,347 and see what some of the smaller options were out there 73 00:03:50,646 --> 00:03:51,509 in the industry. 74 00:03:51,509 --> 00:03:55,740 So worked at drage and then um did some produce for a for a 75 00:03:55,759 --> 00:03:59,830 while out in monterey on the you Coast here and then started my 76 00:03:59,909 --> 00:04:01,552 first freight brokerage in 2006. 77 00:04:01,552 --> 00:04:05,483 So that was my first foyer into it and we were pretty much 78 00:04:05,582 --> 00:04:09,501 niched into refrigerated transportation, so anything you 79 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,907 know produce eggs, some pharmaceuticals, floral, 80 00:04:13,947 --> 00:04:17,891 anything highly perishable we wanted to get involved with. 81 00:04:17,891 --> 00:04:21,981 So, um, that was my first four year and you know I've learned a 82 00:04:21,981 --> 00:04:22,202 lot. 83 00:04:23,365 --> 00:04:25,691 Speaker 1: I wonder if we were at the same new employee seminar 84 00:04:25,691 --> 00:04:28,545 back in the day, because I joined Robinson in very uh, 85 00:04:28,787 --> 00:04:30,973 early 2002. 86 00:04:30,973 --> 00:04:31,975 And we we may have. 87 00:04:31,975 --> 00:04:34,803 I was on the global forwarding side back then, but we may have 88 00:04:34,843 --> 00:04:36,425 crossed paths and didn't know it . 89 00:04:36,425 --> 00:04:40,653 But that's part of the Robinson tree is that it just continues 90 00:04:40,713 --> 00:04:41,294 to expand. 91 00:04:41,294 --> 00:04:46,290 And for others it was XPO or Coyote or somewhere else, was 92 00:04:46,331 --> 00:04:49,466 the beginning of their tree, but I didn't realize that we were 93 00:04:49,788 --> 00:04:51,553 within a year of each other at the same place. 94 00:04:52,257 --> 00:04:54,346 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're pretty close and that's the thing about 95 00:04:54,346 --> 00:04:58,362 it, and I was very fortunate that Global Trans or CH Robinson 96 00:04:58,362 --> 00:04:58,822 hired me. 97 00:04:58,822 --> 00:05:03,245 I had no clue who they were and what their level of importance 98 00:05:03,326 --> 00:05:06,608 in the industry really, so I mean I walked blindly into it 99 00:05:07,410 --> 00:05:10,872 and at the time there wasn't any really big dogs on the block 100 00:05:10,992 --> 00:05:13,014 right, like Coyote wasn't around . 101 00:05:13,014 --> 00:05:16,196 A lot of these other trees you mentioned that have come about 102 00:05:16,255 --> 00:05:18,557 since they weren't really around . 103 00:05:18,557 --> 00:05:21,165 And CH was an interesting point . 104 00:05:21,165 --> 00:05:24,428 They bought up their competition American Backhaulers 105 00:05:24,428 --> 00:05:24,428 . 106 00:05:24,428 --> 00:05:27,336 At that point I got to see a little bit of that which is 107 00:05:27,396 --> 00:05:31,947 legendary and that kind of sparked a little bit of my 108 00:05:32,389 --> 00:05:34,973 vision of what I wanted to eventually build. 109 00:05:36,867 --> 00:05:39,701 And, yeah, I'm just incredibly grateful that I got an 110 00:05:39,742 --> 00:05:41,708 opportunity to work for CH Robson and I poo pooed him 111 00:05:41,747 --> 00:05:44,244 forever, like I was like whatever you know, like who are 112 00:05:44,264 --> 00:05:47,132 these guys and you know, to their credit, they kept after me 113 00:05:47,132 --> 00:05:50,247 and you know I was applying that was thecom boom kind of 114 00:05:50,288 --> 00:05:51,891 when I came out, or bust really. 115 00:05:51,891 --> 00:05:55,673 But there were a lot of opportunities around that were 116 00:05:55,713 --> 00:05:59,603 more sexy, right, sure, prestigious right, and so, uh, 117 00:06:00,266 --> 00:06:02,690 anyway, all they had to say is they were, they were going to 118 00:06:02,730 --> 00:06:07,833 move me to california and I was in and you're still there to 119 00:06:07,853 --> 00:06:08,274 this day. 120 00:06:08,353 --> 00:06:08,714 Speaker 1: So what? 121 00:06:08,714 --> 00:06:10,641 What ended up happening with your first venture then? 122 00:06:10,641 --> 00:06:11,261 What was it? 123 00:06:11,261 --> 00:06:14,584 Um beyond, so you, you, you mentioned it's refrigerated. 124 00:06:14,584 --> 00:06:17,749 You're doing a lot of perishables, straight brokerage, 125 00:06:17,749 --> 00:06:19,711 and then what happened? 126 00:06:20,572 --> 00:06:20,833 Speaker 2: Yeah. 127 00:06:20,833 --> 00:06:24,240 So you know I kind of taken my experience to that point and I 128 00:06:24,281 --> 00:06:27,889 was at that time I'd worked with large enterprise accounts. 129 00:06:27,889 --> 00:06:29,894 I was very like at CH. 130 00:06:29,894 --> 00:06:33,613 I got an opportunity at a very young age to be in some big 131 00:06:33,673 --> 00:06:36,603 boardrooms you know like Unilever best foods and listen 132 00:06:36,624 --> 00:06:38,869 to some of these conversations right, and kind of break that 133 00:06:38,988 --> 00:06:44,288 veil of you know like scariness of seeing like you know this 134 00:06:44,387 --> 00:06:46,112 isn't too bad, these people are just like you. 135 00:06:46,112 --> 00:06:47,687 It's just they got more experience than you. 136 00:06:47,687 --> 00:06:51,163 And so I kind of walked, worked in that enterprise account area 137 00:06:51,163 --> 00:06:56,497 for a long time and so when I went to a smaller brokerage they 138 00:06:56,497 --> 00:06:58,865 had a big enterprise account that they put me on and allowed 139 00:06:58,886 --> 00:07:01,620 me to kind of start building there and when I left I was able 140 00:07:01,620 --> 00:07:03,288 to kind of take some of that business with me. 141 00:07:03,408 --> 00:07:06,401 So my first business really was around an enterprise account. 142 00:07:06,401 --> 00:07:09,689 It was a large retail grocery chain I'm Safeway it's been so 143 00:07:09,730 --> 00:07:13,862 long now at this point and we worked with their produce on the 144 00:07:13,862 --> 00:07:14,422 I-5. 145 00:07:14,422 --> 00:07:18,526 And out here on the West Coast, california goes off during the 146 00:07:18,565 --> 00:07:21,048 summertime, like most people know, and then in the wintertime 147 00:07:21,048 --> 00:07:25,511 it picks up in Washington. 148 00:07:25,511 --> 00:07:29,355 So there's a kind of a constant cycle that I worked in of 149 00:07:29,475 --> 00:07:31,997 contract freight and enterprise accounts going up and down the 150 00:07:32,016 --> 00:07:32,456 I-5. 151 00:07:32,456 --> 00:07:39,641 So that's where I built the first business off of. 152 00:07:39,663 --> 00:07:40,805 Was um just really focused on um produce. 153 00:07:40,805 --> 00:07:42,970 I mean, like I said, we supplemented it with, you know, 154 00:07:43,009 --> 00:07:45,362 other types of refrigerated stuff, but we really were in the 155 00:07:45,362 --> 00:07:50,913 produce game and I was doing retail uh or like uh, contract 156 00:07:50,952 --> 00:07:55,288 freights or contract rates, which was really, you know it's 157 00:07:55,327 --> 00:07:59,783 really nerve wracking, you know, in the produce game doing that 158 00:07:59,824 --> 00:08:03,918 because there's such swings, you know, and we had that 159 00:08:03,939 --> 00:08:07,468 relationship for a long time, you know, about 10 years if not 160 00:08:07,528 --> 00:08:09,232 longer if I count my previous year. 161 00:08:09,232 --> 00:08:11,865 And so as I was building that company, I started realizing 162 00:08:11,886 --> 00:08:15,524 that I was really in bed with Safeway, like I had 85% of my 163 00:08:15,565 --> 00:08:16,327 business with them. 164 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:17,509 Speaker 1: Heavy concentration sure. 165 00:08:17,509 --> 00:08:18,040 Heavy concentration Sure. 166 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,413 Speaker 2: Heavy concentration and it was easy to do, right, 167 00:08:20,454 --> 00:08:22,966 when you're building a business and you're trying to bring 168 00:08:23,026 --> 00:08:25,759 things on and you get a good customer and a big customer and 169 00:08:25,779 --> 00:08:27,766 they've got a lot of opportunities inside of their 170 00:08:27,807 --> 00:08:28,288 business. 171 00:08:28,288 --> 00:08:30,723 You know, you kind of think you're diversifying yourself, 172 00:08:31,105 --> 00:08:34,190 you know, but you're really still under one umbrella and I 173 00:08:34,250 --> 00:08:37,541 started to realize that and it got me kind of nervous, you know 174 00:08:37,541 --> 00:08:42,312 , and I was a new business owner , I was 20 at this age, I was 28 175 00:08:42,312 --> 00:08:42,953 , 29. 176 00:08:42,953 --> 00:08:47,168 And you know, kind of in a silo , right, like back then, there 177 00:08:47,208 --> 00:08:49,039 wasn't a lot of information out there. 178 00:08:49,039 --> 00:08:50,043 There was Google, right. 179 00:08:50,043 --> 00:08:53,350 I mean there wasn't social media, youtube. 180 00:08:53,770 --> 00:08:55,423 You know a lot of people, especially out here in 181 00:08:55,443 --> 00:08:56,086 California. 182 00:08:56,086 --> 00:08:57,732 You know I would tell people I did. 183 00:08:57,732 --> 00:08:59,139 You know a lot of people, especially out here in 184 00:08:59,178 --> 00:08:59,500 California. 185 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:00,855 You know I would tell people I did. 186 00:09:00,855 --> 00:09:01,886 You know I was a freight broker and they'd look at me like I 187 00:09:01,863 --> 00:09:02,153 had a third head. 188 00:09:02,153 --> 00:09:03,510 You know they were just like they didn't know what that meant 189 00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:03,510 . 190 00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:05,490 You know, out in the Midwest it's a little different, right. 191 00:09:05,490 --> 00:09:07,941 You know people, there's a lot more concentration of our 192 00:09:07,980 --> 00:09:08,541 industry there. 193 00:09:08,541 --> 00:09:12,684 So it was just kind of, you know, trying to learn how to run 194 00:09:12,684 --> 00:09:15,046 a business, and that was one of the biggest things that popped 195 00:09:15,105 --> 00:09:15,506 up in my head. 196 00:09:15,506 --> 00:09:17,508 I was bootstrapping it. 197 00:09:17,508 --> 00:09:20,190 I didn't have any money. 198 00:09:20,190 --> 00:09:23,812 Really, what got me off the ground was the fact that I was 199 00:09:23,873 --> 00:09:26,875 able to get paid in 15 days for my customer, and then I was able 200 00:09:26,875 --> 00:09:28,356 to pay my trucks in 30. 201 00:09:29,940 --> 00:09:30,663 Speaker 1: And that kind of allowed me. 202 00:09:30,663 --> 00:09:33,009 So you were cash flow positive as a small brokerage. 203 00:09:33,009 --> 00:09:34,104 Do you know how rare that is? 204 00:09:34,725 --> 00:09:38,782 Speaker 2: Very rare At the as a small brokerage. 205 00:09:38,782 --> 00:09:39,203 Do you know how rare? 206 00:09:39,203 --> 00:09:39,767 That is Very rare, you know. 207 00:09:39,767 --> 00:09:40,187 At the time I didn't. 208 00:09:40,187 --> 00:09:41,394 You know, at the time I thought , you know, this is just like I 209 00:09:41,413 --> 00:09:41,474 got. 210 00:09:41,474 --> 00:09:42,096 You know, all right, let's rock . 211 00:09:42,096 --> 00:09:42,277 You know. 212 00:09:42,277 --> 00:09:44,625 Like you know, I can start a business, you know, cause I 213 00:09:44,664 --> 00:09:47,131 didn't come from money, I didn't have money, I didn't have a lot 214 00:09:47,131 --> 00:09:49,964 of, you know, and this is capital intensive business, 215 00:09:50,024 --> 00:09:54,991 right, and especially if you're an independent broker and so, 216 00:09:55,052 --> 00:09:58,984 anyway, that really was a big lift, you know, to get us going. 217 00:09:58,984 --> 00:10:01,590 You know that changed over time and I had to learn how to 218 00:10:01,630 --> 00:10:04,129 adjust with that because you know they changed their terms. 219 00:10:04,129 --> 00:10:08,203 That made a big difference with me with 85%, you know sometimes 220 00:10:08,203 --> 00:10:10,791 they, you know if they wanted to get paid faster, I became 221 00:10:10,831 --> 00:10:14,025 reliant on that money you know, coming in early. 222 00:10:14,086 --> 00:10:16,630 So, anyway, I was just learning a lot of this stuff about 223 00:10:16,692 --> 00:10:19,748 running a freight brokerage and my biggest concern was, towards 224 00:10:19,788 --> 00:10:25,432 the end, trying to get diversified, and I just couldn't 225 00:10:25,432 --> 00:10:25,893 get there. 226 00:10:25,893 --> 00:10:28,302 And then, sure enough, what happened I was worried about 227 00:10:28,342 --> 00:10:31,081 happening was we got into a dispute with Safeway, which 228 00:10:31,140 --> 00:10:32,206 happens in the produce game. 229 00:10:32,206 --> 00:10:36,537 There's a lot of claims and stuff like that and so, um, you 230 00:10:36,557 --> 00:10:39,547 know, one thing led to another and, um, really, the best route 231 00:10:39,586 --> 00:10:43,700 for me to do is to uh, take the company into bankruptcy. 232 00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:47,676 So you know, that was a really hard decision and that's all. 233 00:10:47,676 --> 00:10:48,538 There was a whole nother. 234 00:10:48,538 --> 00:10:49,822 You know, that's all wrapped around it. 235 00:10:49,822 --> 00:10:53,331 But my first kind of for you, after 10 years we were about 10, 236 00:10:53,331 --> 00:10:56,946 11 years old thought I had gotten over the hump, um, we 237 00:10:56,966 --> 00:10:57,587 were taken out. 238 00:10:57,587 --> 00:11:00,433 So that was a lot of learning. 239 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,086 Speaker 1: How did you handle that, just as a human being? 240 00:11:04,086 --> 00:11:06,110 Forget the business side of it. 241 00:11:06,110 --> 00:11:08,905 I imagine that stirred up a whole bunch of questions about 242 00:11:09,869 --> 00:11:10,009 you. 243 00:11:10,899 --> 00:11:12,621 Speaker 2: Oh sure, absolutely yeah. 244 00:11:12,621 --> 00:11:14,842 I mean it was a really there's. 245 00:11:14,842 --> 00:11:18,145 It was a really pivotal, pivotal time in my life. 246 00:11:18,145 --> 00:11:20,548 You know I was late 20s, early 30s. 247 00:11:20,548 --> 00:11:21,188 I was 30. 248 00:11:21,188 --> 00:11:26,734 We had just early 30s, we just had our second daughter and you 249 00:11:26,754 --> 00:11:29,176 know you're as a father, you're thinking about all that stuff, 250 00:11:29,235 --> 00:11:29,576 you know. 251 00:11:29,576 --> 00:11:37,903 So that was weighing in there, um regret, like man, I wish I 252 00:11:37,923 --> 00:11:39,168 could start over again, like there's so many things that I 253 00:11:39,188 --> 00:11:40,514 would have done differently that were just inherent in our 254 00:11:40,534 --> 00:11:42,341 business and the foundation of how I built it that I just 255 00:11:42,402 --> 00:11:44,807 couldn't turn um around. 256 00:11:44,807 --> 00:11:47,591 So, yeah, there was a lot of conflict there. 257 00:11:47,591 --> 00:11:51,368 There was, you know, feeling like I'd squandered my chance to 258 00:11:51,368 --> 00:11:52,269 be an entrepreneur. 259 00:11:52,269 --> 00:11:54,183 You know it was soul sucking to like have to start looking at 260 00:11:54,205 --> 00:11:54,847 jobs again in corporate America. 261 00:11:54,847 --> 00:11:55,995 And you know it was soul-sucking to like have to 262 00:11:56,014 --> 00:11:58,363 start looking at jobs again in corporate america and you know 263 00:11:58,383 --> 00:11:59,986 thinking that's the route I wanted to go. 264 00:11:59,986 --> 00:12:01,470 So, yeah, it was. 265 00:12:01,470 --> 00:12:05,447 It was very um challenging, but you know there was. 266 00:12:05,647 --> 00:12:07,631 You know, when you go through these moments in life and then 267 00:12:07,820 --> 00:12:10,288 you know I've been through a few of them you know where just, 268 00:12:10,448 --> 00:12:13,640 you get the wind kicked out of your, you know, knocked out of 269 00:12:13,660 --> 00:12:16,668 you, where you have moments clarity, and it's in those 270 00:12:16,727 --> 00:12:18,611 moments of clarity where you have to kind of make the 271 00:12:18,672 --> 00:12:23,429 decisions of how you want to respond and how you want to 272 00:12:23,470 --> 00:12:24,393 handle the situation. 273 00:12:24,393 --> 00:12:27,048 I lost my dad when I was 17 years old, right after high 274 00:12:27,089 --> 00:12:28,947 school, and that was my first one right. 275 00:12:28,947 --> 00:12:35,533 And so within 10 years, from that moment to 26, I went to 276 00:12:35,572 --> 00:12:39,042 college, I graduated with California, started my own 277 00:12:39,423 --> 00:12:39,884 business. 278 00:12:39,884 --> 00:12:42,912 So I was looking at that, going , look, if I can overcome that, 279 00:12:43,039 --> 00:12:44,245 I can definitely overcome this. 280 00:12:44,245 --> 00:12:46,496 I just got to kind of figure out how that is. 281 00:12:46,496 --> 00:12:50,530 I need to adjust my mindset and , you know, try to take another 282 00:12:50,571 --> 00:12:51,312 bite at the apple. 283 00:12:51,955 --> 00:12:54,142 Speaker 1: So would you say, resilience, then, is one of your 284 00:12:54,142 --> 00:12:54,764 biggest strengths. 285 00:12:55,626 --> 00:12:57,150 Speaker 2: Oh, 100%, 100%. 286 00:12:57,150 --> 00:12:59,950 And resilience is like it's a muscle man. 287 00:12:59,950 --> 00:13:02,066 It's really like anybody can have it. 288 00:13:02,066 --> 00:13:03,350 It's a matter of work. 289 00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:07,010 Most people focus on working on their physical muscle and the 290 00:13:07,071 --> 00:13:09,438 brain, and resilience is the same way. 291 00:13:09,438 --> 00:13:12,166 Right, you've got to break it down and rebuild it and then 292 00:13:12,225 --> 00:13:15,133 develop processes in which to handle it. 293 00:13:15,192 --> 00:13:18,822 And I come to I realized, you know, there was a moment during 294 00:13:18,841 --> 00:13:21,470 that clarity when I was thinking like I had a little bit of what 295 00:13:21,470 --> 00:13:24,206 was me, which I'm not, you know , one of those people. 296 00:13:24,206 --> 00:13:25,269 I'm not you know victim. 297 00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:27,482 But I started thinking god dang , am I ever going to be able to 298 00:13:27,503 --> 00:13:31,373 just like cruise, kick my feet up and have everything work 299 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:31,779 right? 300 00:13:31,779 --> 00:13:34,724 And then it hit me like a thunderbolt where I was like 301 00:13:35,225 --> 00:13:35,846 that's not life. 302 00:13:35,846 --> 00:13:39,570 It's never going to be that way and, especially if you want to 303 00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:41,472 be an entrepreneur and especially if you want to be in 304 00:13:41,513 --> 00:13:43,595 this business, you're never going to be able to put your 305 00:13:43,615 --> 00:13:43,895 feet up. 306 00:13:43,895 --> 00:13:52,880 You're never going to reach that point where you know you 307 00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:54,201 can just like kick back and relax if you're in the game and 308 00:13:54,221 --> 00:13:56,263 if you're pushing and you're wanting to do things. 309 00:13:56,263 --> 00:13:57,964 So I've got to learn how to adjust to this. 310 00:13:57,964 --> 00:13:59,205 I got to learn how to deal with this. 311 00:13:59,205 --> 00:14:01,145 I got to be able to, you know, get my mind around a way to 312 00:14:01,225 --> 00:14:03,006 handle these challenges. 313 00:14:03,226 --> 00:14:05,347 And then I started looking back at how I handled the biggest 314 00:14:05,368 --> 00:14:07,570 challenge of my life and I just started breaking it down. 315 00:14:07,570 --> 00:14:09,931 And it wasn't overnight, you know. 316 00:14:09,931 --> 00:14:14,573 I had a lot of you know moments of you know self-doubt and you 317 00:14:14,614 --> 00:14:16,054 know those quiet moments at night. 318 00:14:16,054 --> 00:14:20,177 Those were hard Because basically I had to take it down 319 00:14:20,197 --> 00:14:28,860 and then I also kind of saw a pathway out and we can talk 320 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:29,221 about that next. 321 00:14:29,221 --> 00:14:30,323 But it was really kind of trying to not give up on 322 00:14:30,344 --> 00:14:32,229 yourself and really have a good mental narrative in your head 323 00:14:32,269 --> 00:14:34,721 and find the positive stuff and be grateful for what you do have 324 00:14:34,721 --> 00:14:37,669 and then just start from there, because you're really started 325 00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:38,412 from the ground up. 326 00:14:39,039 --> 00:14:40,384 Speaker 1: Well, and that's where I'm curious on how you 327 00:14:40,424 --> 00:14:46,873 took all of that and then went into your next thing, not just 328 00:14:46,952 --> 00:14:49,679 the intellectual part of it, which is okay. 329 00:14:49,679 --> 00:14:53,797 I'm going to do this specific business and business type next 330 00:14:53,856 --> 00:14:55,962 and I'm going to structure it maybe a little bit differently, 331 00:14:56,543 --> 00:15:00,471 but the willingness to get back into it again after a defeat. 332 00:15:00,471 --> 00:15:03,023 So how did you, what did you decide to do? 333 00:15:03,023 --> 00:15:06,412 And then how did you go about activating? 334 00:15:06,471 --> 00:15:06,631 Speaker 2: on it. 335 00:15:06,631 --> 00:15:10,967 Well, first of all, I had to come to terms with who I was as 336 00:15:11,008 --> 00:15:12,572 a person, who I was as a leader. 337 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,706 You know, and at this point you know I was. 338 00:15:15,706 --> 00:15:19,164 I wasn't a young chicken, but I wasn't old either. 339 00:15:19,164 --> 00:15:21,839 You know, I was kind of like in the middle and I I think it was 340 00:15:21,839 --> 00:15:26,529 a real pivotal time to be like you know who am I and what am I 341 00:15:26,570 --> 00:15:30,121 and what do I want to stand for, and you know how do I go 342 00:15:30,221 --> 00:15:32,725 forward the next time I'm building a business and culture 343 00:15:32,785 --> 00:15:34,148 and thoughts and things like that. 344 00:15:34,148 --> 00:15:39,455 And at that time I saw one of my biggest strengths as one of 345 00:15:39,475 --> 00:15:43,167 my biggest weaknesses, and it took me a minute to really look 346 00:15:43,267 --> 00:15:44,230 at it and that's empathy. 347 00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:49,421 So when I, about that time, I was really hard on myself, like 348 00:15:49,461 --> 00:15:51,804 maybe I didn't lead right, maybe I wasn't hard enough on my 349 00:15:51,865 --> 00:15:54,860 people, maybe I wasn't pushing them hard enough, maybe I wasn't 350 00:15:54,860 --> 00:15:54,860 . 351 00:15:55,302 --> 00:15:59,047 Uh, I live out in, you know, san francisco bay area and during 352 00:15:59,067 --> 00:16:02,220 that time, steve jobs passed away and so he was being 353 00:16:02,340 --> 00:16:06,208 lionized in the media and you know about what a great god. 354 00:16:06,208 --> 00:16:10,484 But also, you know he was kind of a, you know, and I I didn't 355 00:16:11,326 --> 00:16:14,072 ever connect with that, you know , and I've never connected with 356 00:16:14,172 --> 00:16:18,947 the, the um being an app or being a jerk to my employees 357 00:16:19,147 --> 00:16:19,749 Right, like I. 358 00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:22,756 Just that's not the way I led, but I always felt like that was 359 00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:26,274 a weakness, like I needed to do it, and so when I realized that 360 00:16:26,313 --> 00:16:29,743 my greatest strength was my empathy and I just needed to, 361 00:16:29,884 --> 00:16:33,109 you know, lean into that and lead by that and be, you know, 362 00:16:33,149 --> 00:16:36,514 like that's who I am and that's how I'm going to build my 363 00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:39,173 businesses, is just being empathetic with my customers, 364 00:16:39,214 --> 00:16:40,240 being empathetic with my employees. 365 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,755 You know, being empathetic to just about any situation. 366 00:16:43,755 --> 00:16:48,626 You get it, understanding where people are coming from and not 367 00:16:48,727 --> 00:16:52,053 running away from it and not seeing it as a like, kindness, 368 00:16:52,114 --> 00:16:53,442 as a weakness, right you? 369 00:16:53,481 --> 00:16:55,345 Speaker 1: know, I think there's a temptation to look at 370 00:16:55,404 --> 00:17:00,594 somebody who's been successful and try to emulate them and how 371 00:17:00,673 --> 00:17:35,210 they lead, and obviously there are significant benefits to 372 00:17:35,250 --> 00:17:35,711 doing that. 373 00:17:35,711 --> 00:17:43,911 But when it's not true to who you are in an area like that, it 374 00:17:43,911 --> 00:17:49,445 can create all sorts of doubt and you're not actually being 375 00:17:49,465 --> 00:17:50,188 true to yourself. 376 00:17:50,429 --> 00:17:53,501 And then you show up kind of weird to others, maybe because 377 00:17:53,521 --> 00:17:56,155 they're like no, you're actually a pretty empathetic person and 378 00:17:56,175 --> 00:18:00,191 you're trying to be really firm and aggressive and it doesn't 379 00:18:00,231 --> 00:18:03,501 feel right somehow, and then it impacts other people, and then 380 00:18:03,541 --> 00:18:04,925 that impacts the business. 381 00:18:04,925 --> 00:18:05,887 So what did you do? 382 00:18:07,174 --> 00:18:09,878 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that it's interesting because during 383 00:18:09,898 --> 00:18:11,880 that I keep talking about this moment of clarity, it was just a 384 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,863 lot of thoughts going through my head of like where I've 385 00:18:14,903 --> 00:18:16,985 gotten, where I'm at and where I came from. 386 00:18:16,985 --> 00:18:20,449 I grew up in Eastern Washington in an area and the worst thing 387 00:18:20,489 --> 00:18:22,351 you could be where you're from was a poser. 388 00:18:22,351 --> 00:18:25,634 You know, like it was just very authentic place, like everybody 389 00:18:25,634 --> 00:18:25,894 was very-. 390 00:18:25,934 --> 00:18:28,503 Speaker 1: That's classic late 80s language that doesn't get 391 00:18:28,643 --> 00:18:32,499 used enough anymore classic late 80s language that doesn't get 392 00:18:32,519 --> 00:18:32,921 used enough anymore. 393 00:18:32,941 --> 00:18:33,926 Speaker 2: No, no, I mean, really it was what it was like. 394 00:18:33,926 --> 00:18:35,111 I grew up in the 90s in washington state, the pacific 395 00:18:35,151 --> 00:18:35,533 northwest, you know. 396 00:18:35,533 --> 00:18:37,578 It was all about flannels and boots and you know, being 397 00:18:37,860 --> 00:18:41,497 authentic, who you're, who you are right, it wasn't about hair 398 00:18:41,577 --> 00:18:45,670 and makeup, like we were past that you know, and so I had to 399 00:18:45,710 --> 00:18:48,177 get back and adapt to who that you know. 400 00:18:48,177 --> 00:18:50,603 Not adapt, but just remember who I was right. 401 00:18:50,764 --> 00:18:54,259 You know and you know and being authentic is really at the core 402 00:18:54,279 --> 00:18:58,327 of just how people perceive you or understand you is. 403 00:18:58,327 --> 00:18:59,318 They know what they're going to get. 404 00:18:59,318 --> 00:19:01,187 They know you know that you're. 405 00:19:01,187 --> 00:19:03,115 You're just not a poser, right? 406 00:19:03,115 --> 00:19:08,065 And I just felt like that wasn't me of being a jerk, you 407 00:19:08,105 --> 00:19:11,161 know, and pounding on people, and it was more about uplifting, 408 00:19:11,161 --> 00:19:14,799 teaching, understanding, meeting people where they're at, 409 00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:18,259 trying to understand that we all have our challenges outside 410 00:19:18,298 --> 00:19:21,147 of business, and then we're in a very stressful industry, 411 00:19:21,596 --> 00:19:25,644 especially freight brokerage, and your mental health doesn't 412 00:19:25,684 --> 00:19:28,297 just turn on and turn off when you leave the office. 413 00:19:28,297 --> 00:19:29,739 It's a through line. 414 00:19:29,739 --> 00:19:33,965 So I just wanted to be more empathetic amongst all that and 415 00:19:34,345 --> 00:19:37,890 try to do this the second time around. 416 00:19:38,071 --> 00:19:40,618 Speaker 1: A lot different, right so how did it turn out? 417 00:19:40,618 --> 00:19:42,501 How did the second venture go? 418 00:19:43,084 --> 00:19:45,548 Speaker 2: so, again, this was taking a lot of stuff. 419 00:19:45,548 --> 00:19:46,235 I didn't know. 420 00:19:46,235 --> 00:19:47,937 You know, I wish I knew previously and we started 421 00:19:47,957 --> 00:19:49,578 working as. 422 00:19:49,578 --> 00:19:51,161 So we came back as an agent. 423 00:19:51,802 --> 00:19:54,125 So at this time I had met Global Trans. 424 00:19:54,125 --> 00:20:05,115 I'd met Mike and I'm just keeping my name but Andrew Mike 425 00:20:05,135 --> 00:20:05,920 and Andrew led over Global Trans . 426 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,025 They had just started Global Trans, they were trying to 427 00:20:07,045 --> 00:20:08,372 figure out how to scale it and what they were doing, and I was 428 00:20:08,392 --> 00:20:10,317 looking for an LTL platform because my next iteration. 429 00:20:10,317 --> 00:20:12,903 I wanted to make sure I was very diversified, what I offered 430 00:20:12,903 --> 00:20:16,176 my customers and modes in terms of modes, so then I could 431 00:20:16,236 --> 00:20:18,423 develop a more diversified customer base. 432 00:20:18,423 --> 00:20:22,816 So we started, um, you know, getting ltl customers, you know 433 00:20:22,836 --> 00:20:25,102 bring it in and you know turning it into ltl and whatnot. 434 00:20:25,102 --> 00:20:28,616 But, um, you know, getting a chance to kind of come back as 435 00:20:28,657 --> 00:20:32,144 an agent took a lot of the pressure off financially, not 436 00:20:32,183 --> 00:20:34,576 having to do a lot of the stuff around it, and it kind of opened 437 00:20:34,576 --> 00:20:37,786 my eyes like, wow, this is kind of a better way of doing it. 438 00:20:37,786 --> 00:20:40,293 It allows you to focus on selling and brokering. 439 00:20:41,399 --> 00:20:42,201 Speaker 1: Can you unpack that? 440 00:20:42,201 --> 00:20:53,056 Some more understand not through any fault of their own, 441 00:20:53,076 --> 00:20:54,038 it's not a knock that the freight agent model is 442 00:20:54,057 --> 00:20:58,443 fundamentally different than a full standalone entity that 443 00:21:00,988 --> 00:21:04,538 doesn't have the support of what an agent program does. 444 00:21:04,538 --> 00:21:08,426 One's more of a franchise, one's more of a standalone 445 00:21:08,507 --> 00:21:08,868 entity. 446 00:21:08,868 --> 00:21:13,163 Can you just, in 60 seconds or less, explain what the agent 447 00:21:13,203 --> 00:21:16,019 model is and why it's super helpful for some folks. 448 00:21:17,042 --> 00:21:17,903 Speaker 2: It's very simple. 449 00:21:17,903 --> 00:21:18,786 It takes a lot. 450 00:21:18,786 --> 00:21:21,420 So, as a freight broker or building a freight brokerage, 451 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,338 you have a lot of different hats right and you've got to wear a 452 00:21:25,379 --> 00:21:27,345 lot of different ones in a lot of areas in which you're not 453 00:21:27,384 --> 00:21:28,355 familiar with finance. 454 00:21:28,355 --> 00:21:29,743 I don't know a lot of stuff, but basically the agency model 455 00:21:29,763 --> 00:21:31,309 takes a lot of areas in which you're not familiar with, uh, 456 00:21:31,330 --> 00:21:31,530 finance. 457 00:21:31,530 --> 00:21:32,816 You know, I don't know a lot of stuff because mine but 458 00:21:32,855 --> 00:21:36,445 basically the agency model takes a lot of that stuff off your 459 00:21:36,706 --> 00:21:40,345 plate and allows you to focus just more on customers selling 460 00:21:40,866 --> 00:21:41,650 that type of stuff. 461 00:21:41,650 --> 00:21:42,875 So you don't have to worry about billing. 462 00:21:42,875 --> 00:21:44,538 You don't have to worry about claims. 463 00:21:44,538 --> 00:21:47,066 You don't not that claims don't come up but you're not having 464 00:21:47,086 --> 00:21:49,184 to build out a claims you have help with it? 465 00:21:49,205 --> 00:21:52,096 yeah, you know, and that's what I found Like I was having to 466 00:21:52,136 --> 00:21:56,096 build out all these non-revenue producing you know positions 467 00:21:56,157 --> 00:21:59,085 that were needed within a freight brokerage, but we're, 468 00:21:59,546 --> 00:22:02,865 you know, not producing profits, right, like so that you know 469 00:22:02,884 --> 00:22:06,661 what I mean Like they're not salespeople, they're not just 470 00:22:06,861 --> 00:22:09,905 profit, and even back then I'd hire people just for paperwork, 471 00:22:10,427 --> 00:22:14,299 right, and that type of stuff weighs you down when you're 472 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,813 independent and you've got to have a lot of money to pay out. 473 00:22:18,813 --> 00:22:19,475 Get started. 474 00:22:20,056 --> 00:22:23,804 Get started to pay out on carriers and collect from 475 00:22:23,844 --> 00:22:26,557 customers, because not all shippers pay in 30 days but all 476 00:22:26,616 --> 00:22:30,567 carriers need to be paid in 30 days, and so that can create a 477 00:22:30,587 --> 00:22:33,636 big schism that you've got to be able to kind of navigate while 478 00:22:33,657 --> 00:22:35,003 you're doing all these different things. 479 00:22:35,003 --> 00:22:36,421 So it's very intensive. 480 00:22:36,421 --> 00:22:39,124 Now on the agent side, you take a lot of that off your plate. 481 00:22:39,124 --> 00:22:40,670 You don't need to worry about claims, you don't need to worry 482 00:22:40,691 --> 00:22:45,641 about AR, you don't hire any of those people you know in some 483 00:22:45,701 --> 00:22:46,501 great agencies. 484 00:22:46,501 --> 00:22:50,648 You get some camaraderie and ability to get out of your silo 485 00:22:50,668 --> 00:22:52,931 and talk to other agents and see what they're doing. 486 00:22:52,931 --> 00:22:57,458 You're kind of on the same team in some respects. 487 00:22:57,458 --> 00:23:00,261 So yeah, there's really two fundamental different ways to do 488 00:23:00,261 --> 00:23:04,528 it, and I think it's getting harder and harder to do it as an 489 00:23:04,528 --> 00:23:05,349 independent agent. 490 00:23:05,389 --> 00:23:06,490 Speaker 1: Truly independent sure. 491 00:23:07,996 --> 00:23:08,498 Speaker 2: Yeah, truly independent. 492 00:23:08,498 --> 00:23:10,203 I started in 2006. 493 00:23:10,203 --> 00:23:12,062 I literally started by Googling . 494 00:23:12,062 --> 00:23:15,282 I mean, I had worked in freight brokerages but I didn't know 495 00:23:15,303 --> 00:23:19,265 how they worked, so I was really having to Google a lot of stuff 496 00:23:19,265 --> 00:23:19,265 . 497 00:23:19,265 --> 00:23:22,258 Now you got a lot more information and there's a lot 498 00:23:22,298 --> 00:23:27,904 more opportunities to get in the business, a lot with less risk. 499 00:23:28,325 --> 00:23:29,967 Speaker 1: you know more upside, but you also are able to tap 500 00:23:30,067 --> 00:23:34,716 into your own strengths If they're relationship building, 501 00:23:34,916 --> 00:23:41,523 if it's growing sales and that your strengths aren't accounting 502 00:23:41,523 --> 00:23:41,523 . 503 00:23:41,523 --> 00:23:46,708 You know the agent model is a great way to go about it. 504 00:23:46,708 --> 00:23:52,673 If you feel really good at administrative work and you can 505 00:23:52,712 --> 00:23:55,639 do sales and business development on your own, then 506 00:23:55,699 --> 00:23:59,731 doing something independent is going to be maybe more 507 00:23:59,772 --> 00:24:01,376 successful or not more successful, just going to be. 508 00:24:01,376 --> 00:24:04,246 You'll be more successful than folks who don't have those 509 00:24:04,295 --> 00:24:04,657 skillsets. 510 00:24:04,657 --> 00:24:07,129 So it's kind of back to what you were saying about knowing 511 00:24:07,210 --> 00:24:10,619 who you really are and being true to what makes you you. 512 00:24:10,619 --> 00:24:15,486 So you ended up having a far different kind of success under 513 00:24:15,506 --> 00:24:16,147 the agent model. 514 00:24:16,147 --> 00:24:16,909 How did that one end? 515 00:24:17,809 --> 00:24:18,070 Speaker 2: Yeah. 516 00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:21,143 So again, like kind of in that it allowed us to focus on what 517 00:24:21,163 --> 00:24:24,600 we were good at, you know, and allowed me to focus money and 518 00:24:24,881 --> 00:24:27,955 you know stuff towards things that were going to grow the 519 00:24:27,996 --> 00:24:30,765 business and not, you know, be non-revenue producing. 520 00:24:30,765 --> 00:24:32,201 So we scaled faster. 521 00:24:32,201 --> 00:24:35,104 We were much more aware of who we were as a company too. 522 00:24:35,104 --> 00:24:37,644 We focused on small to medium-sized businesses. 523 00:24:37,644 --> 00:24:39,481 I was no longer in the enterprise world. 524 00:24:39,481 --> 00:24:41,142 I didn't like the enterprise world anymore. 525 00:24:41,142 --> 00:24:44,770 It's just we could get into private equity and all that kind 526 00:24:44,770 --> 00:24:45,093 of stuff. 527 00:24:45,093 --> 00:24:46,835 But it's really the same type of mentality. 528 00:24:46,835 --> 00:24:50,245 There's not a lot of relationships that withstand it. 529 00:24:50,245 --> 00:24:53,479 But in the small to medium size you become more of a coach, 530 00:24:53,499 --> 00:24:55,905 consultant, you know, with these new businesses that don't 531 00:24:55,934 --> 00:24:58,141 necessarily know how to ship their products efficiently, 532 00:24:58,302 --> 00:25:01,119 right, and I mean it's the last thing they think about really 533 00:25:01,159 --> 00:25:03,105 when they, when they're starting a business, you know they're, 534 00:25:03,434 --> 00:25:06,398 they're excited about producing what their widgets, you know, 535 00:25:06,438 --> 00:25:07,740 whatever it is, it's not like. 536 00:25:07,740 --> 00:25:10,643 Well then, how do I get it from point A to point B? 537 00:25:10,643 --> 00:25:15,709 So we enjoyed kind of getting in and growing with companies, 538 00:25:15,809 --> 00:25:20,756 and so we had a lot of success with that One of them in 539 00:25:20,776 --> 00:25:20,997 particular. 540 00:25:21,017 --> 00:25:22,780 We got the beverage industry and it had a couple of success 541 00:25:22,801 --> 00:25:28,259 stories there with, like Lagunita Spear we were one of 542 00:25:28,299 --> 00:25:30,105 their first carriers and a company called Hint Water. 543 00:25:30,105 --> 00:25:34,957 Basically they were just doing one or two pallets. 544 00:25:34,957 --> 00:25:37,082 You know, a week we taught them how to. 545 00:25:37,082 --> 00:25:41,220 You know how ltl worked, and then they grew over time and we 546 00:25:41,259 --> 00:25:44,346 were doing you know 20 truckloads a day when I left and 547 00:25:44,346 --> 00:25:47,480 we kind of took them on that, that journey, you know, and 548 00:25:47,581 --> 00:25:49,986 helped them along that way and it strengthened our 549 00:25:50,006 --> 00:25:51,048 relationships right. 550 00:25:51,048 --> 00:25:56,245 So you know, when Uber and CH and all these people discovered 551 00:25:56,345 --> 00:25:58,918 Hint got big enough and they all discovered Hint, you know we 552 00:25:58,959 --> 00:26:02,575 were already three, four, five years knee deep with them, you 553 00:26:02,615 --> 00:26:05,985 know, in a relationship that's taken them from you know small 554 00:26:06,105 --> 00:26:06,727 aspects to here. 555 00:26:06,727 --> 00:26:08,721 So they weren't willing to part with us. 556 00:26:08,721 --> 00:26:11,997 So it made us a little bit more sticky, yeah, and we. 557 00:26:12,136 --> 00:26:14,001 So those were the type of relationships we were building 558 00:26:14,042 --> 00:26:17,798 in that, in that um and at tactic, at that agency, um, and 559 00:26:17,918 --> 00:26:18,960 so it was. 560 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,826 So the company's name was tactic logistics group and 561 00:26:21,886 --> 00:26:22,288 tactic. 562 00:26:22,288 --> 00:26:25,602 I have a little bit of german ancestry and so, uh, it's the 563 00:26:25,662 --> 00:26:29,438 german word for strategy, what's like, oh, cool, yeah, and I, 564 00:26:29,458 --> 00:26:31,643 because I was trying to strategize at the time. 565 00:26:31,643 --> 00:26:35,180 I was going down with the ship, starting a new company and 566 00:26:35,220 --> 00:26:38,931 trying to keep my ass out of jail. 567 00:26:38,931 --> 00:26:42,038 I didn't want to do anything illegal at that point because I 568 00:26:42,078 --> 00:26:45,907 was mixing a lot of relationships and pulling them 569 00:26:45,947 --> 00:26:47,336 over here and whatnot. 570 00:26:47,336 --> 00:26:50,305 So as we built Tactic, we just built it under those 571 00:26:50,325 --> 00:26:53,119 relationships, you know, and we were able to scale it in the 572 00:26:53,219 --> 00:26:57,938 agent model a lot quicker with that direct, intentional, you 573 00:26:57,958 --> 00:26:59,382 know prospect. 574 00:26:59,382 --> 00:27:01,326 You know just the way we were doing it Focus yeah. 575 00:27:01,615 --> 00:27:02,336 Focus right. 576 00:27:02,336 --> 00:27:04,023 Yeah, we're way much more focused. 577 00:27:04,023 --> 00:27:06,817 You know, that's kind of it's different than being, you know, 578 00:27:06,876 --> 00:27:08,159 all in bed with one customer. 579 00:27:08,159 --> 00:27:10,722 It's just being focused on what your strategy is and then, you 580 00:27:10,743 --> 00:27:11,604 know, sticking to it. 581 00:27:11,604 --> 00:27:15,970 And so we became very diverse and a lot more efficient, and so 582 00:27:15,970 --> 00:27:19,722 I grew to that business at about 25 million in five, six 583 00:27:19,783 --> 00:27:20,064 years. 584 00:27:20,064 --> 00:27:24,618 And so, yeah, I mean it was it was hard to sell it. 585 00:27:25,058 --> 00:27:27,766 Yeah, and then I sold it to Global Trans in 2021. 586 00:27:27,766 --> 00:27:31,072 So, you know, because it was a good business right, Like when I 587 00:27:31,072 --> 00:27:33,380 was running around trying to sell my other business, when I 588 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,135 was, you know, going down, I realized how it was a bad 589 00:27:37,216 --> 00:27:40,644 business, fundamentally because I couldn't find anybody to buy 590 00:27:40,705 --> 00:27:40,825 me. 591 00:27:40,825 --> 00:27:44,082 You know, when I got in trouble and so I second time around, I 592 00:27:44,102 --> 00:27:46,216 was like I want to build a good business because when I exit, 593 00:27:46,296 --> 00:27:47,539 it's going to make it that much easier. 594 00:27:47,539 --> 00:27:52,298 So, and that's exactly what happened, you know it was it's 595 00:27:52,317 --> 00:27:54,427 going to make it that much easier, and that's exactly what 596 00:27:54,447 --> 00:27:54,688 happened. 597 00:27:54,769 --> 00:27:56,235 Speaker 1: It was just a good fundamental business. 598 00:27:56,235 --> 00:27:57,596 So how does that then, when you go into Diablo? 599 00:27:57,596 --> 00:28:01,801 Now and you have had a successful exit and you don't 600 00:28:01,941 --> 00:28:06,846 have the pressure and the stress of if this doesn't all go well, 601 00:28:06,846 --> 00:28:08,168 I can't feed my family. 602 00:28:08,168 --> 00:28:11,412 Now you've got a different kind of financial security that 603 00:28:11,455 --> 00:28:12,256 you're starting from. 604 00:28:12,256 --> 00:28:19,388 Do you find yourself showing up um from a position of 605 00:28:19,468 --> 00:28:24,201 confidence or stability, somehow different, that, like your 606 00:28:24,241 --> 00:28:28,436 personal finances, are taken care of so you can make 607 00:28:28,476 --> 00:28:31,038 different kinds of decisions in the third go-round? 608 00:28:31,759 --> 00:28:33,740 Speaker 2: You bet Absolutely Especially for someone who's 609 00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:37,384 bootstrapped everyone in my companies right Like. 610 00:28:37,384 --> 00:28:42,028 This was what I'm playing with house money you know, at this 611 00:28:42,048 --> 00:28:43,009 point right. 612 00:28:43,629 --> 00:28:46,872 And so you know and that was the thing with starting the second 613 00:28:46,912 --> 00:28:59,660 business I had 15 grand left and my wife and I had to have these 614 00:28:59,660 --> 00:29:01,384 conversations where, like, do we take this 15 grand and move 615 00:29:01,404 --> 00:29:03,370 closer to family, get out of the Bay Area, go get a corporate 616 00:29:03,390 --> 00:29:04,513 job, or do we roll it back in and just go for it again? 617 00:29:04,513 --> 00:29:05,836 And she got behind me and said let's do it. 618 00:29:05,836 --> 00:29:08,669 I got faith in you and we literally went week to week, 619 00:29:09,230 --> 00:29:09,894 month to month. 620 00:29:09,894 --> 00:29:11,498 I mean, we were the last to get paid. 621 00:29:11,498 --> 00:29:14,647 I brought my top three guys over, never did cut their 622 00:29:14,687 --> 00:29:18,118 salaries, kept them on everything same bonus programs, 623 00:29:18,138 --> 00:29:20,516 all that type of stuff, but we were the last to get paid. 624 00:29:20,516 --> 00:29:24,039 So it sucked going down and it sucked going up, right. 625 00:29:24,039 --> 00:29:26,857 And so we got to a certain point where we crossed the 626 00:29:26,898 --> 00:29:27,379 threshold. 627 00:29:27,379 --> 00:29:28,041 We were clear. 628 00:29:28,041 --> 00:29:30,984 Plus, we were living personally under the thumb of a trustee, 629 00:29:31,025 --> 00:29:33,304 because we went personally bankrupt too during that time. 630 00:29:33,547 --> 00:29:35,451 Speaker 1: Got it, the company went down, took us down. 631 00:29:36,151 --> 00:29:39,413 Speaker 2: So what I'm getting at was when we finally, when I 632 00:29:39,472 --> 00:29:43,654 sold the business, we had an exit of bankruptcy, our deck was 633 00:29:43,654 --> 00:29:48,638 cleared and I had cash Right and I promised I would never go 634 00:29:48,678 --> 00:29:50,939 back to the way I did business before, where I was chasing 635 00:29:50,959 --> 00:29:54,760 other people's money Right, trying to build my business, and 636 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,863 there is a distinct difference between using your money and 637 00:29:57,982 --> 00:29:59,043 somebody else's money. 638 00:29:59,043 --> 00:30:01,084 When you're building the business, I think you're more 639 00:30:01,124 --> 00:30:08,347 thoughtful about the moves you make and you're just kind of. 640 00:30:08,347 --> 00:30:14,653 There's just a different feeling about it. 641 00:30:14,653 --> 00:30:15,317 But it's a freedom, right. 642 00:30:15,317 --> 00:30:16,943 And so this is where I wanted to be in a position to be able 643 00:30:16,963 --> 00:30:18,229 to make bets and do things, based on my information that 644 00:30:18,249 --> 00:30:21,971 I've gathered over 10 or 15 years and being in the industry 645 00:30:22,072 --> 00:30:24,298 well, 25 years at this point, but at that point it was 20 646 00:30:24,318 --> 00:30:28,160 something years and so it's a different mindset, a lot more 647 00:30:28,220 --> 00:30:28,421 fun. 648 00:30:31,370 --> 00:30:33,699 Speaker 1: Winning is generally more fun than losing. 649 00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:34,873 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, right. 650 00:30:34,873 --> 00:30:38,949 So but it's you know I also relate, you know, I understand, 651 00:30:38,969 --> 00:30:41,511 you know when you're building a business and that struggle, 652 00:30:41,552 --> 00:30:44,394 especially when you don't have money or you don't come from 653 00:30:44,413 --> 00:30:46,836 money you know it's trying to cross that Rubicon of being able 654 00:30:46,836 --> 00:30:48,336 to be like gosh. 655 00:30:48,417 --> 00:30:50,058 Speaker 1: okay, I got money, now that I can now invest in 656 00:30:50,099 --> 00:31:00,527 myself and move forward uh, cinderella story, where what 657 00:31:00,567 --> 00:31:03,509 people do, storytelling one-on-one for just a quick 658 00:31:03,549 --> 00:31:06,015 second, the the Cinderella story ? 659 00:31:06,015 --> 00:31:07,686 Everybody thinks that it's. 660 00:31:07,686 --> 00:31:10,177 You know, she had a terrible life and then it ended with 661 00:31:10,218 --> 00:31:10,860 Prince charming. 662 00:31:10,860 --> 00:31:12,636 That's not the Cinderella story . 663 00:31:12,636 --> 00:31:18,379 The Cinderella story was um, she had a great life and then 664 00:31:18,439 --> 00:31:21,638 they don't explain why, but her mom died or left or something. 665 00:31:21,638 --> 00:31:22,391 You know the. 666 00:31:22,391 --> 00:31:27,620 Her dad was alone and then got remarried and the stepmother was 667 00:31:27,620 --> 00:31:29,824 wicked and that was the decline . 668 00:31:30,572 --> 00:31:34,044 Right before that, things were pretty good yeah so that that 669 00:31:34,104 --> 00:31:36,912 storytelling you know structure is like there was a rise and 670 00:31:36,932 --> 00:31:39,477 then there was a fall, and that's where the story starts 671 00:31:39,938 --> 00:31:42,943 and then it ends with a rise back to they lived happily ever 672 00:31:43,044 --> 00:31:43,264 after. 673 00:31:43,264 --> 00:31:47,994 What I have found in the hundreds and hundreds of people 674 00:31:48,075 --> 00:31:52,719 that I've interviewed and talked to about their stories, the 675 00:31:52,859 --> 00:31:56,023 ones who understand or who have experienced that pattern like 676 00:31:56,083 --> 00:31:59,566 you you had the rise with business number one and then it 677 00:31:59,625 --> 00:32:04,539 crashed, and then you, in your second business, had the happily 678 00:32:04,539 --> 00:32:05,142 ever after. 679 00:32:05,142 --> 00:32:09,055 You appreciate things differently than somebody who's 680 00:32:09,135 --> 00:32:13,482 never had failure or somebody who's never who's only ever had 681 00:32:13,643 --> 00:32:18,536 up and to the right, and they develop hubris, overconfidence, 682 00:32:18,676 --> 00:32:22,942 and then their fall is coming, not always, but sometimes you 683 00:32:23,062 --> 00:32:24,465 bet, it's usually always. 684 00:32:32,190 --> 00:32:33,835 It's usually just around the corner, and so I think we're so 685 00:32:33,855 --> 00:32:36,843 drawn to stories that remind us of those things, and yours is 686 00:32:36,864 --> 00:32:37,265 one of those. 687 00:32:37,265 --> 00:32:39,792 But you also shared with me before we started recording that 688 00:32:39,792 --> 00:32:42,601 sometimes you still have this imposter syndrome that creeps up 689 00:32:42,601 --> 00:32:46,307 , and is that maybe a fear that you might lose it all again 690 00:32:46,388 --> 00:32:50,278 someday, or that it might've been a your success? 691 00:32:50,278 --> 00:32:52,635 The second time might've been a fluke, like, how do you? 692 00:32:52,635 --> 00:32:55,874 Because from the outside I would hear what you've been 693 00:32:55,913 --> 00:33:00,294 through and think you should have tons of confidence, but a 694 00:33:00,354 --> 00:33:03,355 healthy confidence that you can survive anything, you know, come 695 00:33:03,355 --> 00:33:06,501 what may, because you already have once. 696 00:33:06,501 --> 00:33:08,356 So unpack that for me. 697 00:33:09,130 --> 00:33:10,294 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of some of both. 698 00:33:10,294 --> 00:33:14,496 Really, to be honest with you, I tell anybody now that sells 699 00:33:14,536 --> 00:33:16,401 their business to get a therapist as well. 700 00:33:17,513 --> 00:33:21,462 I mean you need an attorney, you need you know an accountant, 701 00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:24,217 you know tax people, and then you need a therapist, because 702 00:33:24,658 --> 00:33:27,376 there is a lot of mind messing around going on when that 703 00:33:27,417 --> 00:33:28,360 happens. 704 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,191 And I've talked to a lot of other people that have done it 705 00:33:31,211 --> 00:33:33,076 too and they feel the same way. 706 00:33:33,076 --> 00:33:34,139 And it doesn't matter how big. 707 00:33:34,139 --> 00:33:36,532 It is right, it could be a billion dollar company, it could 708 00:33:36,532 --> 00:33:37,113 be a small. 709 00:33:37,113 --> 00:33:40,299 It's something that you know, you kind of tie yourself to, and 710 00:33:40,299 --> 00:33:44,368 then you have to kind of it's a journey, you're on Right and 711 00:33:44,488 --> 00:33:46,537 and then you kind of get to the end of it and you look back on 712 00:33:46,576 --> 00:33:49,269 you're like, wow, I dodged this, I dodged that, I did that. 713 00:33:49,651 --> 00:33:53,193 But yeah, I mean, it was very conflicting for me because you 714 00:33:53,235 --> 00:33:55,537 would think that right, like you would be in this position where 715 00:33:55,537 --> 00:33:57,820 I should have the most supreme confidence in myself at that 716 00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:58,120 point. 717 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,982 And not that I didn't, you know , I do have, you know, a lot of 718 00:34:01,023 --> 00:34:03,446 confidence in myself because I do know that I can handle 719 00:34:03,486 --> 00:34:05,793 anything that's thrown at me and I have the strength of 720 00:34:05,853 --> 00:34:09,259 resilience, this, this muscle I've built up over time. 721 00:34:09,259 --> 00:34:14,193 Um, but it's sitting in that moments of like you know, how 722 00:34:14,213 --> 00:34:18,358 did it happen for me, you know, and it didn't happen for x, y, z 723 00:34:18,358 --> 00:34:23,424 or you know, just kind of like did I get lucky? 724 00:34:23,424 --> 00:34:24,505 It was this. 725 00:34:24,831 --> 00:34:28,338 you know all these things and some of that is true, right like 726 00:34:28,338 --> 00:34:31,954 it plays a role, for sure it plays timing, you know I mean, 727 00:34:31,974 --> 00:34:34,961 but I believe you create your own luck and you know, you take 728 00:34:35,001 --> 00:34:38,054 advantage of your opportunities, and I think that was the 729 00:34:38,114 --> 00:34:43,392 biggest thing for me is and even now, I don't squander, I don't 730 00:34:43,451 --> 00:34:44,677 take opportunities lightly. 731 00:34:44,677 --> 00:34:48,320 You know, I try to identify them and then make the most of 732 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:53,018 them, and whether they're ones that have fallen in my lap or 733 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,224 ones that I've created for myself, it doesn't matter. 734 00:34:56,670 --> 00:35:00,061 Speaker 1: They're all treated the same, and so I just kind of 735 00:35:00,590 --> 00:35:02,978 who are you now dangerous question? 736 00:35:03,510 --> 00:35:06,718 Speaker 2: yeah, no, it's kind of, you know, I'm very confident 737 00:35:06,718 --> 00:35:08,942 , obviously, but I'm also humble , right, like you know. 738 00:35:08,942 --> 00:35:11,316 Getting back to the fact that, like it can happen to anybody, 739 00:35:11,376 --> 00:35:15,833 right, business is an imperfect science, it's a sport, it's, 740 00:35:15,974 --> 00:35:18,460 it's a way you know the ball, you know the ball can bounce 741 00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:22,097 different ways and you've got to be able to you, you know, kind 742 00:35:22,137 --> 00:35:24,576 of go with it Right and and be able to learn. 743 00:35:24,576 --> 00:35:27,577 And so I'm doing all that stuff , you know, and I'm still kind 744 00:35:27,617 --> 00:35:28,820 of figuring that out. 745 00:35:28,820 --> 00:35:30,474 But you know, I was in a. 746 00:35:30,954 --> 00:35:33,561 I got interviewed by entrepreneur magazine shortly 747 00:35:33,721 --> 00:35:37,132 after I was kind of coming back and you know I was telling him 748 00:35:37,152 --> 00:35:38,952 about that, my first business. 749 00:35:38,952 --> 00:35:39,954 I had a success. 750 00:35:39,954 --> 00:35:43,735 Especially, it was going through 2008, 2009, when every 751 00:35:43,836 --> 00:35:45,496 other business around you was crumbling. 752 00:35:45,496 --> 00:35:47,077 I was having success. 753 00:35:47,077 --> 00:35:49,480 Everything I touched turned to gold. 754 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,101 I was like, wow, this is easy. 755 00:35:53,101 --> 00:35:56,963 This whole entrepreneur thing. 756 00:35:56,963 --> 00:35:59,206 Like there is another side, there's. 757 00:35:59,206 --> 00:36:00,807 You know you're going to get hit. 758 00:36:01,447 --> 00:36:04,311 If you kind of stay in that mindset and that's kind of what 759 00:36:04,331 --> 00:36:07,097 happened is I just, you know, even though I saw it, kind of 760 00:36:07,117 --> 00:36:11,104 saw it coming, it knocks you off your feet in how you respond to 761 00:36:11,104 --> 00:36:12,052 it and a lot of times. 762 00:36:12,052 --> 00:36:13,438 People have never had that before. 763 00:36:13,438 --> 00:36:16,157 They've never been through a time where they've had to be 764 00:36:16,197 --> 00:36:17,561 resilient and they crumble. 765 00:36:17,561 --> 00:36:22,514 I was fortunate that I kind of had built some coping mechanisms 766 00:36:22,514 --> 00:36:23,177 to be resilient and they crumble. 767 00:36:23,177 --> 00:36:24,521 I was fortunate that I kind of had built some coping mechanisms 768 00:36:24,521 --> 00:36:25,184 to be able to bounce back. 769 00:36:25,204 --> 00:36:27,191 But it's important to understand that you can't get too full 770 00:36:27,231 --> 00:36:27,672 yourself. 771 00:36:27,672 --> 00:36:30,780 No matter how much success you've had, you've always got to 772 00:36:30,780 --> 00:36:31,402 stay learning. 773 00:36:31,402 --> 00:36:35,157 You've always got to stay, you know, continue to be 774 00:36:35,298 --> 00:36:35,840 uncomfortable. 775 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,182 Comfortable being uncomfortable . 776 00:36:37,182 --> 00:36:39,175 You know I talked to my daughters a lot about this right 777 00:36:39,175 --> 00:36:40,619 now, where it's like, you know, I got kind of a real 778 00:36:40,639 --> 00:36:40,980 comfortable life. 779 00:36:40,980 --> 00:36:42,201 You know I talk to my daughters a lot about this right now, 780 00:36:42,221 --> 00:36:44,103 where it's like, you know, I got kind of a real comfortable life 781 00:36:44,103 --> 00:36:44,322 , you know. 782 00:36:44,322 --> 00:36:45,784 So we have to, you know, find some places where they're 783 00:36:45,824 --> 00:36:49,007 uncomfortable sometimes, so we learn some things right and 784 00:36:49,027 --> 00:36:50,452 that's good, you know. 785 00:36:50,512 --> 00:36:52,418 Speaker 1: It's because comfort, comfort and growth don't go 786 00:36:52,458 --> 00:36:52,938 hand in hand. 787 00:36:52,938 --> 00:36:54,391 Very often they don't don't? 788 00:36:54,472 --> 00:36:56,298 Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's another challenge, right? 789 00:36:56,298 --> 00:36:59,833 You know, when you do have some comfort now, then how do you 790 00:36:59,853 --> 00:37:01,237 keep that fire burning? 791 00:37:01,237 --> 00:37:05,625 And, um, how do you, you know, keep it going and not just kick 792 00:37:05,644 --> 00:37:07,210 your feet up, like I was talking about earlier? 793 00:37:07,210 --> 00:37:10,101 Um, because I just I'm, I'm a firm believer. 794 00:37:10,101 --> 00:37:11,244 You got to be on your toes. 795 00:37:11,244 --> 00:37:13,371 I mean, I've been playing sports, I'm always in the balls 796 00:37:13,413 --> 00:37:15,958 of my feet, you're moving forward, being ready to react to 797 00:37:15,958 --> 00:37:17,251 what comes your way. 798 00:37:17,251 --> 00:37:19,076 Um, and then get back up. 799 00:37:19,076 --> 00:37:21,001 You know, you, you get knocked down, you're going to get 800 00:37:21,271 --> 00:37:21,892 blindsided. 801 00:37:21,892 --> 00:37:24,858 But yeah, it's just one of those deals where you just have 802 00:37:24,878 --> 00:37:28,074 to be real with yourself and understand that you don't know 803 00:37:28,094 --> 00:37:30,019 it all and you always got to keep learning. 804 00:37:30,019 --> 00:37:34,217 And the more you learn and the more you get up from challenges, 805 00:37:34,217 --> 00:37:37,711 that creates a resiliency that does give you confidence that 806 00:37:38,371 --> 00:37:39,713 there's virtually not much that could. 807 00:37:39,713 --> 00:37:42,940 I can't think of much that could probably come my way that 808 00:37:42,980 --> 00:37:45,123 I couldn't handle, because now I have the structures in place to 809 00:37:45,123 --> 00:37:46,045 be able to process it. 810 00:37:47,331 --> 00:37:50,780 Speaker 1: Well, your story is one that I love sharing. 811 00:37:51,481 --> 00:37:52,242 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that. 812 00:37:53,592 --> 00:37:56,737 Speaker 1: I hope somebody else is listening to this who is in 813 00:37:56,757 --> 00:38:00,563 the middle of their storm, whatever it is, and recognizes 814 00:38:00,603 --> 00:38:01,724 that this too shall pass. 815 00:38:01,724 --> 00:38:04,635 Now you can't just hope that it's going to pass. 816 00:38:04,635 --> 00:38:05,398 You got to act. 817 00:38:05,398 --> 00:38:07,871 You have to make good choices, you have to do all the things. 818 00:38:07,871 --> 00:38:11,880 If it doesn't turn out and things fail, there's hope after 819 00:38:11,921 --> 00:38:12,643 that also. 820 00:38:13,230 --> 00:38:15,137 Speaker 2: You bet there's actually bigger hope. 821 00:38:15,137 --> 00:38:16,262 You know what I mean. 822 00:38:16,262 --> 00:38:18,751 I feel like some people get spoiled by less. 823 00:38:18,751 --> 00:38:21,898 They don't have any failure right, so they they kind of 824 00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:23,202 plateau the. 825 00:38:23,202 --> 00:38:26,831 The only way to get through greatness is only established 826 00:38:26,851 --> 00:38:27,572 through adversity. 827 00:38:27,572 --> 00:38:33,224 You know, and I've never met a successful person that has not 828 00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:37,338 experienced some sort of adversity and in order to be 829 00:38:37,398 --> 00:38:40,153 successful, it's just something you have to go through well, 830 00:38:40,173 --> 00:38:40,534 well said. 831 00:38:40,554 --> 00:38:42,039 Yeah, it'll come your way. 832 00:38:42,039 --> 00:38:48,510 But you know, at the same time you stick through it, it does 833 00:38:48,530 --> 00:38:49,311 get better on the other side. 834 00:38:49,311 --> 00:38:50,552 You know, I was just thinking about this the other day. 835 00:38:50,552 --> 00:38:54,095 Sometimes I put myself in those moments of where I was the most 836 00:38:54,095 --> 00:38:54,474 stressed. 837 00:38:54,474 --> 00:38:58,237 You know, and you know, I was laying on the floor of my office 838 00:38:58,237 --> 00:39:02,461 like can't breathe and thinking like I'm here now and I would 839 00:39:02,501 --> 00:39:04,882 never have seen myself here now in that moment. 840 00:39:04,882 --> 00:39:07,664 So you just got to get up and you just got to keep fighting. 841 00:39:08,344 --> 00:39:11,186 Speaker 1: I wonder if this is the entrepreneurial version of 842 00:39:11,927 --> 00:39:12,007 you. 843 00:39:12,007 --> 00:39:15,191 Know what your grandparents would say you think you've got 844 00:39:15,211 --> 00:39:17,195 it rough, like we had to walk uphill to school both ways, you 845 00:39:17,215 --> 00:39:19,641 know through the snow with my brother on my back. 846 00:39:19,641 --> 00:39:24,452 Backward, yeah, to school both ways, you know through the snow, 847 00:39:24,452 --> 00:39:25,074 with my brother on my back. 848 00:39:25,074 --> 00:39:28,880 But there is some universal guidance in all of that, and so 849 00:39:28,921 --> 00:39:31,450 thanks for the vulnerability of just like opening up and saying, 850 00:39:31,450 --> 00:39:35,199 hey, here's the good, the bad and the ugly of what I've been 851 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:35,519 through. 852 00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:39,057 Regardless of what those circumstances are, you can find 853 00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:41,369 success professionally. 854 00:39:41,369 --> 00:39:44,679 It can help develop and grow you individually. 855 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:45,581 You mentioned your daughters. 856 00:39:45,581 --> 00:39:48,635 I know how big of a role they play in your life and how you 857 00:39:48,675 --> 00:39:52,621 want to model certain things for them and the values that you 858 00:39:52,661 --> 00:39:55,784 show up with in your work life and then in your home life too, 859 00:39:55,909 --> 00:40:00,052 because entrepreneurship isn't just a day job, it's just not 860 00:40:00,253 --> 00:40:01,739 something that happens eight hours a day. 861 00:40:01,739 --> 00:40:04,251 It's a whole family, it's all. 862 00:40:04,251 --> 00:40:09,316 Yeah, it's an encompassing experience and whatever happens 863 00:40:09,476 --> 00:40:13,275 next in your experience, tyson, thank you for well one. 864 00:40:13,275 --> 00:40:14,418 We wish you very, very well. 865 00:40:14,418 --> 00:40:17,771 I want to keep our conversation going for a long time because I 866 00:40:17,771 --> 00:40:20,355 learn something new every time we talk and as I share every 867 00:40:20,375 --> 00:40:22,838 time we talk, and as I share every time we're all rooting for 868 00:40:22,838 --> 00:40:22,979 you. 869 00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:25,762 Speaker 2: I appreciate that, nate, and likewise I appreciate 870 00:40:25,782 --> 00:40:32,411 you creating this platform, you know, for people to learn from 871 00:40:32,431 --> 00:40:33,492 and and be on and, you know, share their stories. 872 00:40:33,492 --> 00:40:34,153 So I think it's really important. 873 00:40:34,153 --> 00:40:35,376 You know, when I was going through those difficult times, I 874 00:40:35,376 --> 00:40:36,577 was reaching out to find similar stories. 875 00:40:36,577 --> 00:40:39,983 You know, just to kind of be like okay, like if he can get 876 00:40:40,023 --> 00:40:41,164 through it, I can get through it . 877 00:40:41,164 --> 00:40:44,068 So if I can be that for somebody and you can be that 878 00:40:44,108 --> 00:40:46,976 platform, you know, that's great and I just appreciate it and 879 00:40:46,996 --> 00:40:48,119 thank you again for having me on . 880 00:40:48,730 --> 00:40:50,414 Speaker 1: Of course, if somebody wants to reach out to 881 00:40:50,476 --> 00:40:51,800 you, where's the best place to find you? 882 00:40:52,789 --> 00:40:53,711 Speaker 2: LinkedIn's the best place. 883 00:40:53,711 --> 00:40:57,434 So just look at Tyson Lawrence and LinkedIn. 884 00:40:57,434 --> 00:41:00,597 Or, you know, shoot me an email , t Lawrence at Diablo 885 00:41:00,637 --> 00:41:01,579 freightcom. 886 00:41:01,579 --> 00:41:04,061 You can go to our website, diablo freightcom. 887 00:41:04,061 --> 00:41:07,545 My marketing people put me all over it so you'll see. 888 00:41:08,746 --> 00:41:13,831 Speaker 1: Right on so if they can't, if somebody can't find 889 00:41:13,851 --> 00:41:15,492 you, then you got to have a tough conversation with somebody 890 00:41:15,492 --> 00:41:16,092 in marketing Right on. 891 00:41:16,092 --> 00:41:17,313 Okay, thank you, tyson, take care. 892 00:41:17,313 --> 00:41:18,193 Thanks, nate. 893 00:41:18,193 --> 00:41:23,436 Thanks for listening to another episode of the Bootstrapper's 894 00:41:23,476 --> 00:41:26,059 Guide to Logistics, and a special thank you to our 895 00:41:26,097 --> 00:41:29,079 sponsors and the team behind the scenes who make it all possible 896 00:41:29,079 --> 00:41:29,079 . 897 00:41:29,079 --> 00:41:32,563 Be sure to like, follow or subscribe to the podcast to get 898 00:41:32,583 --> 00:41:33,362 the latest updates. 899 00:41:33,362 --> 00:41:36,425 To learn more about the show and connect with the growing 900 00:41:36,485 --> 00:41:39,847 community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounderscom. 901 00:41:39,847 --> 00:41:46,724 And, of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to 902 00:41:46,724 --> 00:41:48,072 share their stories.