1 00:00:01,766 --> 00:00:03,773 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to 2 00:00:03,813 --> 00:00:06,421 Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it 3 00:00:06,442 --> 00:00:08,150 the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 4 00:00:08,150 --> 00:00:11,063 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and 5 00:00:11,122 --> 00:00:12,569 inspiring others to take the leap. 6 00:00:12,569 --> 00:00:16,510 It's a roller coaster ride that you might ultimately fail. 7 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:19,068 Speaker 2: That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 8 00:00:19,782 --> 00:00:20,646 Speaker 1: It was very hard. 9 00:00:20,646 --> 00:00:23,047 It truly is building a legacy. 10 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,268 Speaker 2: The more life you live, the more wisdom you have. 11 00:00:26,839 --> 00:00:29,106 Speaker 1: Because we are where we're supposed to be, kind of 12 00:00:29,248 --> 00:00:30,271 answering the call. 13 00:00:30,271 --> 00:00:33,209 Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 14 00:00:33,209 --> 00:00:35,134 I'm your host, Nate Schutz. 15 00:00:35,134 --> 00:00:38,204 Let's build something together from the ground up. 16 00:00:38,204 --> 00:00:43,399 Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Bootstrapper's Guide 17 00:00:43,399 --> 00:00:44,121 to Logistics. 18 00:00:44,121 --> 00:00:47,588 We are still doing what we've always done sharing founder 19 00:00:47,609 --> 00:00:50,134 stories, hoping to educate and inspire others. 20 00:00:50,134 --> 00:00:53,968 Some folks are on the fence about whether or not they should 21 00:00:53,968 --> 00:00:57,804 jump into their first business, and then there are others, like 22 00:00:57,804 --> 00:01:01,290 our guest today, Tyson Lawrence , who's the founder and CEO of 23 00:01:01,350 --> 00:01:05,698 Diablo Freight Ventures that are on their third venture, and so 24 00:01:05,778 --> 00:01:09,128 today we're going to unpack parts of his journey, understand 25 00:01:09,128 --> 00:01:12,343 what makes him tick and why he's so bullish about the future 26 00:01:12,343 --> 00:01:15,352 in his third rodeo. 27 00:01:15,352 --> 00:01:17,518 So with that, Tyson, good morning. 28 00:01:17,518 --> 00:01:19,221 It's so good to see you, my friend. 29 00:01:19,221 --> 00:01:20,887 I can't wait to unpack your journey. 30 00:01:20,887 --> 00:01:22,370 How are we finding you today? 31 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:25,728 Speaker 2: Great Nate, appreciate you having me on. 32 00:01:25,728 --> 00:01:28,346 I've been a fan of the show for a while, so it's kind of a real 33 00:01:28,346 --> 00:01:31,890 honor to be here, and you know I'm a big fan of yours and I 34 00:01:31,930 --> 00:01:34,680 enjoy having conversations with you, so I'm looking forward to 35 00:01:34,742 --> 00:01:34,802 it. 36 00:01:35,283 --> 00:01:35,765 Speaker 1: Same. 37 00:01:35,765 --> 00:01:38,614 I enjoy our conversations because they're wide range and 38 00:01:38,635 --> 00:01:41,828 we talk about everything from family to business, to values 39 00:01:43,031 --> 00:01:44,054 and everything in between. 40 00:01:44,054 --> 00:01:46,319 I think you have a pretty compelling story, because I 41 00:01:46,379 --> 00:01:50,588 already know most of it, but other folks don't, so why don't 42 00:01:50,608 --> 00:01:51,170 we start? 43 00:01:51,170 --> 00:01:53,902 I obviously mentioned this is your third venture. 44 00:01:53,902 --> 00:01:58,212 Why don't you take us first on an overview of what Diablo is, 45 00:01:58,531 --> 00:02:00,602 and then what have you done previously? 46 00:02:01,665 --> 00:02:01,885 Speaker 2: Sure. 47 00:02:01,885 --> 00:02:05,332 So Diablo for me is kind of a culmination of my career to this 48 00:02:05,332 --> 00:02:05,593 point. 49 00:02:05,593 --> 00:02:09,891 I've been in the industry about 25 years and ups and downs, and 50 00:02:09,891 --> 00:02:14,043 I started Diablo to kind of encompass everything that I have 51 00:02:14,043 --> 00:02:16,669 , all the interests that I have in the industry, from some 52 00:02:16,710 --> 00:02:21,526 investments that I have and some industry startups, things like 53 00:02:21,567 --> 00:02:21,787 that. 54 00:02:21,787 --> 00:02:26,194 I do coaching and consulting, you know, m&a to freight 55 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,493 brokerages, to um, and then I have a unishippers franchise 56 00:02:30,693 --> 00:02:31,437 also that. 57 00:02:31,437 --> 00:02:34,425 So it's kind of three separate things all under one umbrella, 58 00:02:35,086 --> 00:02:37,733 um, kind of for me in a given day I'm kind of working on one 59 00:02:37,759 --> 00:02:41,573 of those three things, um, but it keeps me in the kind of in 60 00:02:41,592 --> 00:02:42,695 the ball game a little bit. 61 00:02:42,695 --> 00:02:46,990 And you know that's what I'm doing right now with Diablo 62 00:02:47,069 --> 00:02:47,311 Freight. 63 00:02:47,539 --> 00:02:50,406 But you know, like I said, I got started in the industry 25 64 00:02:50,466 --> 00:02:53,893 years ago, kind of blindly, kind of like a lot of people in 65 00:02:54,052 --> 00:02:54,633 logistics. 66 00:02:54,633 --> 00:02:57,568 You know we find our way to this great industry and then we 67 00:02:57,609 --> 00:03:00,302 can't get out, but nor do I want out out. 68 00:03:00,302 --> 00:03:05,391 But, um, I got hired by ch robinson in 2000, 2001, right 69 00:03:05,412 --> 00:03:09,346 around there, and then kind of got my education, you know, with 70 00:03:09,346 --> 00:03:11,491 them for about two, two and a half years and then realized I 71 00:03:11,550 --> 00:03:15,094 wasn't a real corporate guy, um, and I kind of wanted to get out 72 00:03:15,094 --> 00:03:18,847 and see what some of the smaller options were out there 73 00:03:19,146 --> 00:03:20,009 in the industry. 74 00:03:20,009 --> 00:03:24,240 So worked at drage and then um did some produce for a for a 75 00:03:24,259 --> 00:03:28,330 while out in monterey on the you Coast here and then started my 76 00:03:28,409 --> 00:03:30,052 first freight brokerage in 2006. 77 00:03:30,052 --> 00:03:33,983 So that was my first foyer into it and we were pretty much 78 00:03:34,082 --> 00:03:38,001 niched into refrigerated transportation, so anything you 79 00:03:38,020 --> 00:03:42,407 know produce eggs, some pharmaceuticals, floral, 80 00:03:42,447 --> 00:03:46,391 anything highly perishable we wanted to get involved with. 81 00:03:46,391 --> 00:03:50,481 So, um, that was my first four year and you know I've learned a 82 00:03:50,481 --> 00:03:50,703 lot. 83 00:03:51,866 --> 00:03:54,191 Speaker 1: I wonder if we were at the same new employee seminar 84 00:03:54,191 --> 00:03:57,045 back in the day, because I joined Robinson in very uh, 85 00:03:57,287 --> 00:03:59,473 early 2002. 86 00:03:59,473 --> 00:04:00,474 And we we may have. 87 00:04:00,474 --> 00:04:03,304 I was on the global forwarding side back then, but we may have 88 00:04:03,343 --> 00:04:04,925 crossed paths and didn't know it . 89 00:04:04,925 --> 00:04:09,153 But that's part of the Robinson tree is that it just continues 90 00:04:09,213 --> 00:04:09,794 to expand. 91 00:04:09,794 --> 00:04:14,790 And for others it was XPO or Coyote or somewhere else, was 92 00:04:14,830 --> 00:04:17,966 the beginning of their tree, but I didn't realize that we were 93 00:04:18,288 --> 00:04:20,053 within a year of each other at the same place. 94 00:04:20,757 --> 00:04:22,846 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're pretty close and that's the thing about 95 00:04:22,846 --> 00:04:26,862 it, and I was very fortunate that Global Trans or CH Robinson 96 00:04:26,862 --> 00:04:27,322 hired me. 97 00:04:27,322 --> 00:04:31,745 I had no clue who they were and what their level of importance 98 00:04:31,826 --> 00:04:35,108 in the industry really, so I mean I walked blindly into it 99 00:04:35,910 --> 00:04:39,372 and at the time there wasn't any really big dogs on the block 100 00:04:39,492 --> 00:04:41,514 right, like Coyote wasn't around . 101 00:04:41,514 --> 00:04:44,696 A lot of these other trees you mentioned that have come about 102 00:04:44,755 --> 00:04:47,057 since they weren't really around . 103 00:04:47,057 --> 00:04:49,665 And CH was an interesting point . 104 00:04:49,665 --> 00:04:52,928 They bought up their competition American Backhaulers 105 00:04:52,928 --> 00:04:52,928 . 106 00:04:52,928 --> 00:04:55,836 At that point I got to see a little bit of that which is 107 00:04:55,896 --> 00:05:00,447 legendary and that kind of sparked a little bit of my 108 00:05:00,889 --> 00:05:03,473 vision of what I wanted to eventually build. 109 00:05:05,367 --> 00:05:08,201 And, yeah, I'm just incredibly grateful that I got an 110 00:05:08,242 --> 00:05:10,208 opportunity to work for CH Robson and I poo pooed him 111 00:05:10,247 --> 00:05:12,744 forever, like I was like whatever you know, like who are 112 00:05:12,764 --> 00:05:15,632 these guys and you know, to their credit, they kept after me 113 00:05:15,632 --> 00:05:18,747 and you know I was applying that was thecom boom kind of 114 00:05:18,788 --> 00:05:20,391 when I came out, or bust really. 115 00:05:20,391 --> 00:05:24,173 But there were a lot of opportunities around that were 116 00:05:24,213 --> 00:05:28,103 more sexy, right, sure, prestigious right, and so, uh, 117 00:05:28,766 --> 00:05:31,190 anyway, all they had to say is they were, they were going to 118 00:05:31,230 --> 00:05:36,333 move me to california and I was in and you're still there to 119 00:05:36,353 --> 00:05:36,774 this day. 120 00:05:36,853 --> 00:05:37,214 Speaker 1: So what? 121 00:05:37,214 --> 00:05:39,141 What ended up happening with your first venture then? 122 00:05:39,141 --> 00:05:39,761 What was it? 123 00:05:39,761 --> 00:05:43,084 Um beyond, so you, you, you mentioned it's refrigerated. 124 00:05:43,084 --> 00:05:46,249 You're doing a lot of perishables, straight brokerage, 125 00:05:46,249 --> 00:05:48,211 and then what happened? 126 00:05:49,072 --> 00:05:49,333 Speaker 2: Yeah. 127 00:05:49,333 --> 00:05:52,740 So you know I kind of taken my experience to that point and I 128 00:05:52,781 --> 00:05:56,389 was at that time I'd worked with large enterprise accounts. 129 00:05:56,389 --> 00:05:58,394 I was very like at CH. 130 00:05:58,394 --> 00:06:02,113 I got an opportunity at a very young age to be in some big 131 00:06:02,173 --> 00:06:05,103 boardrooms you know like Unilever best foods and listen 132 00:06:05,124 --> 00:06:07,369 to some of these conversations right, and kind of break that 133 00:06:07,488 --> 00:06:12,788 veil of you know like scariness of seeing like you know this 134 00:06:12,887 --> 00:06:14,612 isn't too bad, these people are just like you. 135 00:06:14,612 --> 00:06:16,187 It's just they got more experience than you. 136 00:06:16,187 --> 00:06:19,663 And so I kind of walked, worked in that enterprise account area 137 00:06:19,663 --> 00:06:24,997 for a long time and so when I went to a smaller brokerage they 138 00:06:24,997 --> 00:06:27,365 had a big enterprise account that they put me on and allowed 139 00:06:27,386 --> 00:06:30,120 me to kind of start building there and when I left I was able 140 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,788 to kind of take some of that business with me. 141 00:06:31,908 --> 00:06:34,901 So my first business really was around an enterprise account. 142 00:06:34,901 --> 00:06:38,189 It was a large retail grocery chain I'm Safeway it's been so 143 00:06:38,230 --> 00:06:42,362 long now at this point and we worked with their produce on the 144 00:06:42,362 --> 00:06:42,922 I-5. 145 00:06:42,922 --> 00:06:47,026 And out here on the West Coast, california goes off during the 146 00:06:47,065 --> 00:06:49,548 summertime, like most people know, and then in the wintertime 147 00:06:49,548 --> 00:06:54,011 it picks up in Washington. 148 00:06:54,011 --> 00:06:57,855 So there's a kind of a constant cycle that I worked in of 149 00:06:57,975 --> 00:07:00,497 contract freight and enterprise accounts going up and down the 150 00:07:00,516 --> 00:07:00,956 I-5. 151 00:07:00,956 --> 00:07:08,141 So that's where I built the first business off of. 152 00:07:08,163 --> 00:07:09,305 Was um just really focused on um produce. 153 00:07:09,305 --> 00:07:11,470 I mean, like I said, we supplemented it with, you know, 154 00:07:11,509 --> 00:07:13,862 other types of refrigerated stuff, but we really were in the 155 00:07:13,862 --> 00:07:19,413 produce game and I was doing retail uh or like uh, contract 156 00:07:19,452 --> 00:07:23,788 freights or contract rates, which was really, you know it's 157 00:07:23,827 --> 00:07:28,283 really nerve wracking, you know, in the produce game doing that 158 00:07:28,324 --> 00:07:32,418 because there's such swings, you know, and we had that 159 00:07:32,439 --> 00:07:35,968 relationship for a long time, you know, about 10 years if not 160 00:07:36,028 --> 00:07:37,732 longer if I count my previous year. 161 00:07:37,732 --> 00:07:40,365 And so as I was building that company, I started realizing 162 00:07:40,386 --> 00:07:44,024 that I was really in bed with Safeway, like I had 85% of my 163 00:07:44,065 --> 00:07:44,827 business with them. 164 00:07:45,500 --> 00:07:46,009 Speaker 1: Heavy concentration sure. 165 00:07:46,009 --> 00:07:46,540 Heavy concentration Sure. 166 00:07:46,740 --> 00:07:48,913 Speaker 2: Heavy concentration and it was easy to do, right, 167 00:07:48,954 --> 00:07:51,466 when you're building a business and you're trying to bring 168 00:07:51,526 --> 00:07:54,259 things on and you get a good customer and a big customer and 169 00:07:54,279 --> 00:07:56,266 they've got a lot of opportunities inside of their 170 00:07:56,307 --> 00:07:56,788 business. 171 00:07:56,788 --> 00:07:59,223 You know, you kind of think you're diversifying yourself, 172 00:07:59,605 --> 00:08:02,689 you know, but you're really still under one umbrella and I 173 00:08:02,750 --> 00:08:06,041 started to realize that and it got me kind of nervous, you know 174 00:08:06,041 --> 00:08:10,812 , and I was a new business owner , I was 20 at this age, I was 28 175 00:08:10,812 --> 00:08:11,454 , 29. 176 00:08:11,454 --> 00:08:15,668 And you know, kind of in a silo , right, like back then, there 177 00:08:15,708 --> 00:08:17,540 wasn't a lot of information out there. 178 00:08:17,540 --> 00:08:18,543 There was Google, right. 179 00:08:18,543 --> 00:08:21,850 I mean there wasn't social media, youtube. 180 00:08:22,271 --> 00:08:23,923 You know a lot of people, especially out here in 181 00:08:23,944 --> 00:08:24,586 California. 182 00:08:24,586 --> 00:08:26,233 You know I would tell people I did. 183 00:08:26,233 --> 00:08:27,639 You know a lot of people, especially out here in 184 00:08:27,678 --> 00:08:28,000 California. 185 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:29,355 You know I would tell people I did. 186 00:08:29,355 --> 00:08:30,387 You know I was a freight broker and they'd look at me like I 187 00:08:30,362 --> 00:08:30,653 had a third head. 188 00:08:30,653 --> 00:08:32,010 You know they were just like they didn't know what that meant 189 00:08:32,010 --> 00:08:32,010 . 190 00:08:32,010 --> 00:08:33,990 You know, out in the Midwest it's a little different, right. 191 00:08:33,990 --> 00:08:36,441 You know people, there's a lot more concentration of our 192 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:37,041 industry there. 193 00:08:37,041 --> 00:08:41,184 So it was just kind of, you know, trying to learn how to run 194 00:08:41,184 --> 00:08:43,546 a business, and that was one of the biggest things that popped 195 00:08:43,605 --> 00:08:44,006 up in my head. 196 00:08:44,006 --> 00:08:46,008 I was bootstrapping it. 197 00:08:46,008 --> 00:08:48,690 I didn't have any money. 198 00:08:48,690 --> 00:08:52,312 Really, what got me off the ground was the fact that I was 199 00:08:52,373 --> 00:08:55,375 able to get paid in 15 days for my customer, and then I was able 200 00:08:55,375 --> 00:08:56,856 to pay my trucks in 30. 201 00:08:58,440 --> 00:08:59,163 Speaker 1: And that kind of allowed me. 202 00:08:59,163 --> 00:09:01,509 So you were cash flow positive as a small brokerage. 203 00:09:01,509 --> 00:09:02,604 Do you know how rare that is? 204 00:09:03,225 --> 00:09:07,282 Speaker 2: Very rare At the as a small brokerage. 205 00:09:07,282 --> 00:09:07,703 Do you know how rare? 206 00:09:07,703 --> 00:09:08,267 That is Very rare, you know. 207 00:09:08,267 --> 00:09:08,687 At the time I didn't. 208 00:09:08,687 --> 00:09:09,894 You know, at the time I thought , you know, this is just like I 209 00:09:09,913 --> 00:09:09,974 got. 210 00:09:09,974 --> 00:09:10,596 You know, all right, let's rock . 211 00:09:10,596 --> 00:09:10,777 You know. 212 00:09:10,777 --> 00:09:13,125 Like you know, I can start a business, you know, cause I 213 00:09:13,164 --> 00:09:15,631 didn't come from money, I didn't have money, I didn't have a lot 214 00:09:15,631 --> 00:09:18,464 of, you know, and this is capital intensive business, 215 00:09:18,524 --> 00:09:23,491 right, and especially if you're an independent broker and so, 216 00:09:23,552 --> 00:09:27,484 anyway, that really was a big lift, you know, to get us going. 217 00:09:27,484 --> 00:09:30,090 You know that changed over time and I had to learn how to 218 00:09:30,130 --> 00:09:32,629 adjust with that because you know they changed their terms. 219 00:09:32,629 --> 00:09:36,703 That made a big difference with me with 85%, you know sometimes 220 00:09:36,703 --> 00:09:39,291 they, you know if they wanted to get paid faster, I became 221 00:09:39,331 --> 00:09:42,525 reliant on that money you know, coming in early. 222 00:09:42,586 --> 00:09:45,130 So, anyway, I was just learning a lot of this stuff about 223 00:09:45,192 --> 00:09:48,248 running a freight brokerage and my biggest concern was, towards 224 00:09:48,288 --> 00:09:53,932 the end, trying to get diversified, and I just couldn't 225 00:09:53,932 --> 00:09:54,393 get there. 226 00:09:54,393 --> 00:09:56,802 And then, sure enough, what happened I was worried about 227 00:09:56,842 --> 00:09:59,581 happening was we got into a dispute with Safeway, which 228 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:00,706 happens in the produce game. 229 00:10:00,706 --> 00:10:05,037 There's a lot of claims and stuff like that and so, um, you 230 00:10:05,057 --> 00:10:08,047 know, one thing led to another and, um, really, the best route 231 00:10:08,086 --> 00:10:12,200 for me to do is to uh, take the company into bankruptcy. 232 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,176 So you know, that was a really hard decision and that's all. 233 00:10:16,176 --> 00:10:17,038 There was a whole nother. 234 00:10:17,038 --> 00:10:18,322 You know, that's all wrapped around it. 235 00:10:18,322 --> 00:10:21,831 But my first kind of for you, after 10 years we were about 10, 236 00:10:21,831 --> 00:10:25,446 11 years old thought I had gotten over the hump, um, we 237 00:10:25,466 --> 00:10:26,087 were taken out. 238 00:10:26,087 --> 00:10:28,933 So that was a lot of learning. 239 00:10:29,620 --> 00:10:32,586 Speaker 1: How did you handle that, just as a human being? 240 00:10:32,586 --> 00:10:34,610 Forget the business side of it. 241 00:10:34,610 --> 00:10:37,405 I imagine that stirred up a whole bunch of questions about 242 00:10:38,369 --> 00:10:38,509 you. 243 00:10:39,399 --> 00:10:41,121 Speaker 2: Oh sure, absolutely yeah. 244 00:10:41,121 --> 00:10:43,342 I mean it was a really there's. 245 00:10:43,342 --> 00:10:46,645 It was a really pivotal, pivotal time in my life. 246 00:10:46,645 --> 00:10:49,048 You know I was late 20s, early 30s. 247 00:10:49,048 --> 00:10:49,688 I was 30. 248 00:10:49,688 --> 00:10:55,234 We had just early 30s, we just had our second daughter and you 249 00:10:55,254 --> 00:10:57,676 know you're as a father, you're thinking about all that stuff, 250 00:10:57,735 --> 00:10:58,076 you know. 251 00:10:58,076 --> 00:11:06,403 So that was weighing in there, um regret, like man, I wish I 252 00:11:06,423 --> 00:11:07,668 could start over again, like there's so many things that I 253 00:11:07,688 --> 00:11:09,014 would have done differently that were just inherent in our 254 00:11:09,034 --> 00:11:10,841 business and the foundation of how I built it that I just 255 00:11:10,902 --> 00:11:13,307 couldn't turn um around. 256 00:11:13,307 --> 00:11:16,091 So, yeah, there was a lot of conflict there. 257 00:11:16,091 --> 00:11:19,868 There was, you know, feeling like I'd squandered my chance to 258 00:11:19,868 --> 00:11:20,769 be an entrepreneur. 259 00:11:20,769 --> 00:11:22,683 You know it was soul sucking to like have to start looking at 260 00:11:22,705 --> 00:11:23,347 jobs again in corporate America. 261 00:11:23,347 --> 00:11:24,495 And you know it was soul-sucking to like have to 262 00:11:24,514 --> 00:11:26,863 start looking at jobs again in corporate america and you know 263 00:11:26,883 --> 00:11:28,486 thinking that's the route I wanted to go. 264 00:11:28,486 --> 00:11:29,970 So, yeah, it was. 265 00:11:29,970 --> 00:11:33,947 It was very um challenging, but you know there was. 266 00:11:34,147 --> 00:11:36,131 You know, when you go through these moments in life and then 267 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,788 you know I've been through a few of them you know where just, 268 00:11:38,948 --> 00:11:42,140 you get the wind kicked out of your, you know, knocked out of 269 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,168 you, where you have moments clarity, and it's in those 270 00:11:45,227 --> 00:11:47,111 moments of clarity where you have to kind of make the 271 00:11:47,172 --> 00:11:51,929 decisions of how you want to respond and how you want to 272 00:11:51,970 --> 00:11:52,893 handle the situation. 273 00:11:52,893 --> 00:11:55,548 I lost my dad when I was 17 years old, right after high 274 00:11:55,589 --> 00:11:57,447 school, and that was my first one right. 275 00:11:57,447 --> 00:12:04,033 And so within 10 years, from that moment to 26, I went to 276 00:12:04,072 --> 00:12:07,542 college, I graduated with California, started my own 277 00:12:07,923 --> 00:12:08,384 business. 278 00:12:08,384 --> 00:12:11,412 So I was looking at that, going , look, if I can overcome that, 279 00:12:11,539 --> 00:12:12,745 I can definitely overcome this. 280 00:12:12,745 --> 00:12:14,996 I just got to kind of figure out how that is. 281 00:12:14,996 --> 00:12:19,030 I need to adjust my mindset and , you know, try to take another 282 00:12:19,071 --> 00:12:19,812 bite at the apple. 283 00:12:20,455 --> 00:12:22,642 Speaker 1: So would you say, resilience, then, is one of your 284 00:12:22,642 --> 00:12:23,264 biggest strengths. 285 00:12:24,126 --> 00:12:25,650 Speaker 2: Oh, 100%, 100%. 286 00:12:25,650 --> 00:12:28,450 And resilience is like it's a muscle man. 287 00:12:28,450 --> 00:12:30,566 It's really like anybody can have it. 288 00:12:30,566 --> 00:12:31,850 It's a matter of work. 289 00:12:31,850 --> 00:12:35,510 Most people focus on working on their physical muscle and the 290 00:12:35,571 --> 00:12:37,938 brain, and resilience is the same way. 291 00:12:37,938 --> 00:12:40,666 Right, you've got to break it down and rebuild it and then 292 00:12:40,725 --> 00:12:43,633 develop processes in which to handle it. 293 00:12:43,692 --> 00:12:47,322 And I come to I realized, you know, there was a moment during 294 00:12:47,341 --> 00:12:49,970 that clarity when I was thinking like I had a little bit of what 295 00:12:49,970 --> 00:12:52,706 was me, which I'm not, you know , one of those people. 296 00:12:52,706 --> 00:12:53,769 I'm not you know victim. 297 00:12:53,769 --> 00:12:55,982 But I started thinking god dang , am I ever going to be able to 298 00:12:56,003 --> 00:12:59,873 just like cruise, kick my feet up and have everything work 299 00:12:59,940 --> 00:13:00,279 right? 300 00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:03,224 And then it hit me like a thunderbolt where I was like 301 00:13:03,725 --> 00:13:04,346 that's not life. 302 00:13:04,346 --> 00:13:08,070 It's never going to be that way and, especially if you want to 303 00:13:08,090 --> 00:13:09,972 be an entrepreneur and especially if you want to be in 304 00:13:10,013 --> 00:13:12,095 this business, you're never going to be able to put your 305 00:13:12,115 --> 00:13:12,395 feet up. 306 00:13:12,395 --> 00:13:21,380 You're never going to reach that point where you know you 307 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:22,701 can just like kick back and relax if you're in the game and 308 00:13:22,721 --> 00:13:24,763 if you're pushing and you're wanting to do things. 309 00:13:24,763 --> 00:13:26,464 So I've got to learn how to adjust to this. 310 00:13:26,464 --> 00:13:27,705 I got to learn how to deal with this. 311 00:13:27,705 --> 00:13:29,645 I got to be able to, you know, get my mind around a way to 312 00:13:29,725 --> 00:13:31,506 handle these challenges. 313 00:13:31,726 --> 00:13:33,847 And then I started looking back at how I handled the biggest 314 00:13:33,868 --> 00:13:36,070 challenge of my life and I just started breaking it down. 315 00:13:36,070 --> 00:13:38,431 And it wasn't overnight, you know. 316 00:13:38,431 --> 00:13:43,073 I had a lot of you know moments of you know self-doubt and you 317 00:13:43,114 --> 00:13:44,554 know those quiet moments at night. 318 00:13:44,554 --> 00:13:48,677 Those were hard Because basically I had to take it down 319 00:13:48,697 --> 00:13:57,360 and then I also kind of saw a pathway out and we can talk 320 00:13:57,380 --> 00:13:57,721 about that next. 321 00:13:57,721 --> 00:13:58,823 But it was really kind of trying to not give up on 322 00:13:58,844 --> 00:14:00,729 yourself and really have a good mental narrative in your head 323 00:14:00,769 --> 00:14:03,221 and find the positive stuff and be grateful for what you do have 324 00:14:03,221 --> 00:14:06,169 and then just start from there, because you're really started 325 00:14:06,210 --> 00:14:06,912 from the ground up. 326 00:14:07,539 --> 00:14:08,884 Speaker 1: Well, and that's where I'm curious on how you 327 00:14:08,924 --> 00:14:15,373 took all of that and then went into your next thing, not just 328 00:14:15,452 --> 00:14:18,179 the intellectual part of it, which is okay. 329 00:14:18,179 --> 00:14:22,297 I'm going to do this specific business and business type next 330 00:14:22,356 --> 00:14:24,462 and I'm going to structure it maybe a little bit differently, 331 00:14:25,043 --> 00:14:28,971 but the willingness to get back into it again after a defeat. 332 00:14:28,971 --> 00:14:31,523 So how did you, what did you decide to do? 333 00:14:31,523 --> 00:14:34,912 And then how did you go about activating? 334 00:14:34,971 --> 00:14:35,131 Speaker 2: on it. 335 00:14:35,131 --> 00:14:39,467 Well, first of all, I had to come to terms with who I was as 336 00:14:39,508 --> 00:14:41,072 a person, who I was as a leader. 337 00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:44,206 You know, and at this point you know I was. 338 00:14:44,206 --> 00:14:47,664 I wasn't a young chicken, but I wasn't old either. 339 00:14:47,664 --> 00:14:50,339 You know, I was kind of like in the middle and I I think it was 340 00:14:50,339 --> 00:14:55,029 a real pivotal time to be like you know who am I and what am I 341 00:14:55,070 --> 00:14:58,621 and what do I want to stand for, and you know how do I go 342 00:14:58,721 --> 00:15:01,225 forward the next time I'm building a business and culture 343 00:15:01,285 --> 00:15:02,648 and thoughts and things like that. 344 00:15:02,648 --> 00:15:07,955 And at that time I saw one of my biggest strengths as one of 345 00:15:07,975 --> 00:15:11,667 my biggest weaknesses, and it took me a minute to really look 346 00:15:11,767 --> 00:15:12,730 at it and that's empathy. 347 00:15:12,730 --> 00:15:17,921 So when I, about that time, I was really hard on myself, like 348 00:15:17,961 --> 00:15:20,304 maybe I didn't lead right, maybe I wasn't hard enough on my 349 00:15:20,365 --> 00:15:23,360 people, maybe I wasn't pushing them hard enough, maybe I wasn't 350 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:23,360 . 351 00:15:23,802 --> 00:15:27,547 Uh, I live out in, you know, san francisco bay area and during 352 00:15:27,567 --> 00:15:30,720 that time, steve jobs passed away and so he was being 353 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,708 lionized in the media and you know about what a great god. 354 00:15:34,708 --> 00:15:38,984 But also, you know he was kind of a, you know, and I I didn't 355 00:15:39,826 --> 00:15:42,572 ever connect with that, you know , and I've never connected with 356 00:15:42,672 --> 00:15:47,447 the, the um being an app or being a jerk to my employees 357 00:15:47,647 --> 00:15:48,249 Right, like I. 358 00:15:48,249 --> 00:15:51,256 Just that's not the way I led, but I always felt like that was 359 00:15:51,299 --> 00:15:54,774 a weakness, like I needed to do it, and so when I realized that 360 00:15:54,813 --> 00:15:58,243 my greatest strength was my empathy and I just needed to, 361 00:15:58,384 --> 00:16:01,609 you know, lean into that and lead by that and be, you know, 362 00:16:01,649 --> 00:16:05,014 like that's who I am and that's how I'm going to build my 363 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,673 businesses, is just being empathetic with my customers, 364 00:16:07,714 --> 00:16:08,740 being empathetic with my employees. 365 00:16:08,740 --> 00:16:12,255 You know, being empathetic to just about any situation. 366 00:16:12,255 --> 00:16:17,126 You get it, understanding where people are coming from and not 367 00:16:17,227 --> 00:16:20,553 running away from it and not seeing it as a like, kindness, 368 00:16:20,614 --> 00:16:21,942 as a weakness, right you? 369 00:16:21,981 --> 00:16:23,845 Speaker 1: know, I think there's a temptation to look at 370 00:16:23,904 --> 00:16:29,094 somebody who's been successful and try to emulate them and how 371 00:16:29,173 --> 00:16:33,269 they lead, and obviously there are significant benefits to 372 00:16:33,309 --> 00:16:33,770 doing that. 373 00:16:33,770 --> 00:16:41,971 But when it's not true to who you are in an area like that, it 374 00:16:41,971 --> 00:16:47,505 can create all sorts of doubt and you're not actually being 375 00:16:47,525 --> 00:16:48,248 true to yourself. 376 00:16:48,489 --> 00:16:51,562 And then you show up kind of weird to others, maybe because 377 00:16:51,581 --> 00:16:54,215 they're like no, you're actually a pretty empathetic person and 378 00:16:54,235 --> 00:16:58,250 you're trying to be really firm and aggressive and it doesn't 379 00:16:58,292 --> 00:17:01,561 feel right somehow, and then it impacts other people, and then 380 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:02,985 that impacts the business. 381 00:17:02,985 --> 00:17:03,947 So what did you do? 382 00:17:05,234 --> 00:17:07,938 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that it's interesting because during 383 00:17:07,958 --> 00:17:09,940 that I keep talking about this moment of clarity, it was just a 384 00:17:09,940 --> 00:17:12,923 lot of thoughts going through my head of like where I've 385 00:17:12,962 --> 00:17:15,045 gotten, where I'm at and where I came from. 386 00:17:15,045 --> 00:17:18,509 I grew up in Eastern Washington in an area and the worst thing 387 00:17:18,548 --> 00:17:20,411 you could be where you're from was a poser. 388 00:17:20,411 --> 00:17:23,694 You know, like it was just very authentic place, like everybody 389 00:17:23,694 --> 00:17:23,954 was very-. 390 00:17:23,994 --> 00:17:26,563 Speaker 1: That's classic late 80s language that doesn't get 391 00:17:26,702 --> 00:17:30,558 used enough anymore classic late 80s language that doesn't get 392 00:17:30,578 --> 00:17:30,980 used enough anymore. 393 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:31,986 Speaker 2: No, no, I mean, really it was what it was like. 394 00:17:31,986 --> 00:17:33,171 I grew up in the 90s in washington state, the pacific 395 00:17:33,211 --> 00:17:33,593 northwest, you know. 396 00:17:33,593 --> 00:17:35,638 It was all about flannels and boots and you know, being 397 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,557 authentic, who you're, who you are right, it wasn't about hair 398 00:17:39,637 --> 00:17:43,730 and makeup, like we were past that you know, and so I had to 399 00:17:43,769 --> 00:17:46,237 get back and adapt to who that you know. 400 00:17:46,237 --> 00:17:48,663 Not adapt, but just remember who I was right. 401 00:17:48,824 --> 00:17:52,318 You know and you know and being authentic is really at the core 402 00:17:52,339 --> 00:17:56,387 of just how people perceive you or understand you is. 403 00:17:56,387 --> 00:17:57,378 They know what they're going to get. 404 00:17:57,378 --> 00:17:59,247 They know you know that you're. 405 00:17:59,247 --> 00:18:01,174 You're just not a poser, right? 406 00:18:01,174 --> 00:18:06,125 And I just felt like that wasn't me of being a jerk, you 407 00:18:06,164 --> 00:18:09,221 know, and pounding on people, and it was more about uplifting, 408 00:18:09,221 --> 00:18:12,859 teaching, understanding, meeting people where they're at, 409 00:18:12,859 --> 00:18:16,318 trying to understand that we all have our challenges outside 410 00:18:16,358 --> 00:18:19,207 of business, and then we're in a very stressful industry, 411 00:18:19,655 --> 00:18:23,704 especially freight brokerage, and your mental health doesn't 412 00:18:23,744 --> 00:18:26,356 just turn on and turn off when you leave the office. 413 00:18:26,356 --> 00:18:27,798 It's a through line. 414 00:18:27,798 --> 00:18:32,025 So I just wanted to be more empathetic amongst all that and 415 00:18:32,404 --> 00:18:35,950 try to do this the second time around. 416 00:18:36,131 --> 00:18:38,678 Speaker 1: A lot different, right so how did it turn out? 417 00:18:38,678 --> 00:18:40,561 How did the second venture go? 418 00:18:41,144 --> 00:18:43,608 Speaker 2: so, again, this was taking a lot of stuff. 419 00:18:43,608 --> 00:18:44,295 I didn't know. 420 00:18:44,295 --> 00:18:45,997 You know, I wish I knew previously and we started 421 00:18:46,017 --> 00:18:47,638 working as. 422 00:18:47,638 --> 00:18:49,221 So we came back as an agent. 423 00:18:49,862 --> 00:18:52,184 So at this time I had met Global Trans. 424 00:18:52,184 --> 00:19:03,175 I'd met Mike and I'm just keeping my name but Andrew Mike 425 00:19:03,195 --> 00:19:03,980 and Andrew led over Global Trans . 426 00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:05,085 They had just started Global Trans, they were trying to 427 00:19:05,105 --> 00:19:06,432 figure out how to scale it and what they were doing, and I was 428 00:19:06,451 --> 00:19:08,377 looking for an LTL platform because my next iteration. 429 00:19:08,377 --> 00:19:10,962 I wanted to make sure I was very diversified, what I offered 430 00:19:10,962 --> 00:19:14,236 my customers and modes in terms of modes, so then I could 431 00:19:14,296 --> 00:19:16,482 develop a more diversified customer base. 432 00:19:16,482 --> 00:19:20,875 So we started, um, you know, getting ltl customers, you know 433 00:19:20,895 --> 00:19:23,162 bring it in and you know turning it into ltl and whatnot. 434 00:19:23,162 --> 00:19:26,676 But, um, you know, getting a chance to kind of come back as 435 00:19:26,717 --> 00:19:30,203 an agent took a lot of the pressure off financially, not 436 00:19:30,243 --> 00:19:32,635 having to do a lot of the stuff around it, and it kind of opened 437 00:19:32,635 --> 00:19:35,846 my eyes like, wow, this is kind of a better way of doing it. 438 00:19:35,846 --> 00:19:38,353 It allows you to focus on selling and brokering. 439 00:19:39,459 --> 00:19:40,261 Speaker 1: Can you unpack that? 440 00:19:40,261 --> 00:19:51,115 Some more understand not through any fault of their own, 441 00:19:51,135 --> 00:19:52,097 it's not a knock that the freight agent model is 442 00:19:52,117 --> 00:19:56,503 fundamentally different than a full standalone entity that 443 00:19:59,048 --> 00:20:02,597 doesn't have the support of what an agent program does. 444 00:20:02,597 --> 00:20:06,486 One's more of a franchise, one's more of a standalone 445 00:20:06,567 --> 00:20:06,928 entity. 446 00:20:06,928 --> 00:20:11,223 Can you just, in 60 seconds or less, explain what the agent 447 00:20:11,263 --> 00:20:14,079 model is and why it's super helpful for some folks. 448 00:20:15,102 --> 00:20:15,963 Speaker 2: It's very simple. 449 00:20:15,963 --> 00:20:16,846 It takes a lot. 450 00:20:16,846 --> 00:20:19,480 So, as a freight broker or building a freight brokerage, 451 00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:23,398 you have a lot of different hats right and you've got to wear a 452 00:20:23,439 --> 00:20:25,404 lot of different ones in a lot of areas in which you're not 453 00:20:25,444 --> 00:20:26,415 familiar with finance. 454 00:20:26,415 --> 00:20:27,803 I don't know a lot of stuff, but basically the agency model 455 00:20:27,823 --> 00:20:29,369 takes a lot of areas in which you're not familiar with, uh, 456 00:20:29,390 --> 00:20:29,590 finance. 457 00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:30,875 You know, I don't know a lot of stuff because mine but 458 00:20:30,915 --> 00:20:34,505 basically the agency model takes a lot of that stuff off your 459 00:20:34,766 --> 00:20:38,404 plate and allows you to focus just more on customers selling 460 00:20:38,926 --> 00:20:39,710 that type of stuff. 461 00:20:39,710 --> 00:20:40,934 So you don't have to worry about billing. 462 00:20:40,934 --> 00:20:42,598 You don't have to worry about claims. 463 00:20:42,598 --> 00:20:45,125 You don't not that claims don't come up but you're not having 464 00:20:45,145 --> 00:20:47,244 to build out a claims you have help with it? 465 00:20:47,265 --> 00:20:50,156 yeah, you know, and that's what I found Like I was having to 466 00:20:50,196 --> 00:20:54,156 build out all these non-revenue producing you know positions 467 00:20:54,217 --> 00:20:57,144 that were needed within a freight brokerage, but we're, 468 00:20:57,605 --> 00:21:00,924 you know, not producing profits, right, like so that you know 469 00:21:00,944 --> 00:21:04,721 what I mean Like they're not salespeople, they're not just 470 00:21:04,921 --> 00:21:07,965 profit, and even back then I'd hire people just for paperwork, 471 00:21:08,487 --> 00:21:12,359 right, and that type of stuff weighs you down when you're 472 00:21:12,380 --> 00:21:16,873 independent and you've got to have a lot of money to pay out. 473 00:21:16,873 --> 00:21:17,535 Get started. 474 00:21:18,115 --> 00:21:21,864 Get started to pay out on carriers and collect from 475 00:21:21,903 --> 00:21:24,616 customers, because not all shippers pay in 30 days but all 476 00:21:24,676 --> 00:21:28,627 carriers need to be paid in 30 days, and so that can create a 477 00:21:28,647 --> 00:21:31,696 big schism that you've got to be able to kind of navigate while 478 00:21:31,717 --> 00:21:33,063 you're doing all these different things. 479 00:21:33,063 --> 00:21:34,480 So it's very intensive. 480 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,183 Now on the agent side, you take a lot of that off your plate. 481 00:21:37,183 --> 00:21:38,730 You don't need to worry about claims, you don't need to worry 482 00:21:38,750 --> 00:21:43,701 about AR, you don't hire any of those people you know in some 483 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:44,561 great agencies. 484 00:21:44,561 --> 00:21:48,708 You get some camaraderie and ability to get out of your silo 485 00:21:48,728 --> 00:21:50,990 and talk to other agents and see what they're doing. 486 00:21:50,990 --> 00:21:55,518 You're kind of on the same team in some respects. 487 00:21:55,518 --> 00:21:58,321 So yeah, there's really two fundamental different ways to do 488 00:21:58,321 --> 00:22:02,587 it, and I think it's getting harder and harder to do it as an 489 00:22:02,587 --> 00:22:03,409 independent agent. 490 00:22:03,449 --> 00:22:04,549 Speaker 1: Truly independent sure. 491 00:22:06,056 --> 00:22:06,557 Speaker 2: Yeah, truly independent. 492 00:22:06,557 --> 00:22:08,263 I started in 2006. 493 00:22:08,263 --> 00:22:10,122 I literally started by Googling . 494 00:22:10,122 --> 00:22:13,342 I mean, I had worked in freight brokerages but I didn't know 495 00:22:13,363 --> 00:22:17,325 how they worked, so I was really having to Google a lot of stuff 496 00:22:17,325 --> 00:22:17,325 . 497 00:22:17,325 --> 00:22:20,317 Now you got a lot more information and there's a lot 498 00:22:20,357 --> 00:22:25,964 more opportunities to get in the business, a lot with less risk. 499 00:22:26,384 --> 00:22:28,027 Speaker 1: you know more upside, but you also are able to tap 500 00:22:28,127 --> 00:22:32,776 into your own strengths If they're relationship building, 501 00:22:32,976 --> 00:22:39,583 if it's growing sales and that your strengths aren't accounting 502 00:22:39,583 --> 00:22:39,583 . 503 00:22:39,583 --> 00:22:44,768 You know the agent model is a great way to go about it. 504 00:22:44,768 --> 00:22:50,732 If you feel really good at administrative work and you can 505 00:22:50,772 --> 00:22:53,699 do sales and business development on your own, then 506 00:22:53,759 --> 00:22:57,791 doing something independent is going to be maybe more 507 00:22:57,832 --> 00:22:59,436 successful or not more successful, just going to be. 508 00:22:59,436 --> 00:23:02,306 You'll be more successful than folks who don't have those 509 00:23:02,355 --> 00:23:02,717 skillsets. 510 00:23:02,717 --> 00:23:05,189 So it's kind of back to what you were saying about knowing 511 00:23:05,269 --> 00:23:08,679 who you really are and being true to what makes you you. 512 00:23:08,679 --> 00:23:13,546 So you ended up having a far different kind of success under 513 00:23:13,566 --> 00:23:14,207 the agent model. 514 00:23:14,207 --> 00:23:14,969 How did that one end? 515 00:23:15,869 --> 00:23:16,130 Speaker 2: Yeah. 516 00:23:16,130 --> 00:23:19,202 So again, like kind of in that it allowed us to focus on what 517 00:23:19,223 --> 00:23:22,660 we were good at, you know, and allowed me to focus money and 518 00:23:22,941 --> 00:23:26,015 you know stuff towards things that were going to grow the 519 00:23:26,056 --> 00:23:28,825 business and not, you know, be non-revenue producing. 520 00:23:28,825 --> 00:23:30,260 So we scaled faster. 521 00:23:30,260 --> 00:23:33,163 We were much more aware of who we were as a company too. 522 00:23:33,163 --> 00:23:35,703 We focused on small to medium-sized businesses. 523 00:23:35,703 --> 00:23:37,541 I was no longer in the enterprise world. 524 00:23:37,541 --> 00:23:39,201 I didn't like the enterprise world anymore. 525 00:23:39,201 --> 00:23:42,830 It's just we could get into private equity and all that kind 526 00:23:42,830 --> 00:23:43,153 of stuff. 527 00:23:43,153 --> 00:23:44,894 But it's really the same type of mentality. 528 00:23:44,894 --> 00:23:48,305 There's not a lot of relationships that withstand it. 529 00:23:48,305 --> 00:23:51,538 But in the small to medium size you become more of a coach, 530 00:23:51,558 --> 00:23:53,965 consultant, you know, with these new businesses that don't 531 00:23:53,994 --> 00:23:56,201 necessarily know how to ship their products efficiently, 532 00:23:56,362 --> 00:23:59,179 right, and I mean it's the last thing they think about really 533 00:23:59,219 --> 00:24:01,164 when they, when they're starting a business, you know they're, 534 00:24:01,494 --> 00:24:04,458 they're excited about producing what their widgets, you know, 535 00:24:04,498 --> 00:24:05,799 whatever it is, it's not like. 536 00:24:05,799 --> 00:24:08,702 Well then, how do I get it from point A to point B? 537 00:24:08,702 --> 00:24:13,769 So we enjoyed kind of getting in and growing with companies, 538 00:24:13,869 --> 00:24:18,816 and so we had a lot of success with that One of them in 539 00:24:18,836 --> 00:24:19,057 particular. 540 00:24:19,076 --> 00:24:20,840 We got the beverage industry and it had a couple of success 541 00:24:20,861 --> 00:24:26,318 stories there with, like Lagunita Spear we were one of 542 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,164 their first carriers and a company called Hint Water. 543 00:24:28,164 --> 00:24:33,017 Basically they were just doing one or two pallets. 544 00:24:33,017 --> 00:24:35,142 You know, a week we taught them how to. 545 00:24:35,142 --> 00:24:39,279 You know how ltl worked, and then they grew over time and we 546 00:24:39,319 --> 00:24:42,406 were doing you know 20 truckloads a day when I left and 547 00:24:42,406 --> 00:24:45,540 we kind of took them on that, that journey, you know, and 548 00:24:45,641 --> 00:24:48,046 helped them along that way and it strengthened our 549 00:24:48,066 --> 00:24:49,107 relationships right. 550 00:24:49,107 --> 00:24:54,305 So you know, when Uber and CH and all these people discovered 551 00:24:54,404 --> 00:24:56,978 Hint got big enough and they all discovered Hint, you know we 552 00:24:57,019 --> 00:25:00,634 were already three, four, five years knee deep with them, you 553 00:25:00,674 --> 00:25:04,045 know, in a relationship that's taken them from you know small 554 00:25:04,164 --> 00:25:04,787 aspects to here. 555 00:25:04,787 --> 00:25:06,780 So they weren't willing to part with us. 556 00:25:06,780 --> 00:25:10,057 So it made us a little bit more sticky, yeah, and we. 557 00:25:10,196 --> 00:25:12,061 So those were the type of relationships we were building 558 00:25:12,102 --> 00:25:15,857 in that, in that um and at tactic, at that agency, um, and 559 00:25:15,978 --> 00:25:17,019 so it was. 560 00:25:17,019 --> 00:25:19,886 So the company's name was tactic logistics group and 561 00:25:19,946 --> 00:25:20,347 tactic. 562 00:25:20,347 --> 00:25:23,662 I have a little bit of german ancestry and so, uh, it's the 563 00:25:23,721 --> 00:25:27,498 german word for strategy, what's like, oh, cool, yeah, and I, 564 00:25:27,518 --> 00:25:29,702 because I was trying to strategize at the time. 565 00:25:29,702 --> 00:25:33,240 I was going down with the ship, starting a new company and 566 00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:36,990 trying to keep my ass out of jail. 567 00:25:36,990 --> 00:25:40,098 I didn't want to do anything illegal at that point because I 568 00:25:40,138 --> 00:25:43,967 was mixing a lot of relationships and pulling them 569 00:25:44,007 --> 00:25:45,396 over here and whatnot. 570 00:25:45,396 --> 00:25:48,365 So as we built Tactic, we just built it under those 571 00:25:48,384 --> 00:25:51,179 relationships, you know, and we were able to scale it in the 572 00:25:51,278 --> 00:25:55,998 agent model a lot quicker with that direct, intentional, you 573 00:25:56,018 --> 00:25:57,442 know prospect. 574 00:25:57,442 --> 00:25:59,386 You know just the way we were doing it Focus yeah. 575 00:25:59,674 --> 00:26:00,396 Focus right. 576 00:26:00,396 --> 00:26:02,083 Yeah, we're way much more focused. 577 00:26:02,083 --> 00:26:04,876 You know, that's kind of it's different than being, you know, 578 00:26:04,936 --> 00:26:06,219 all in bed with one customer. 579 00:26:06,219 --> 00:26:08,782 It's just being focused on what your strategy is and then, you 580 00:26:08,803 --> 00:26:09,663 know, sticking to it. 581 00:26:09,663 --> 00:26:14,029 And so we became very diverse and a lot more efficient, and so 582 00:26:14,029 --> 00:26:17,782 I grew to that business at about 25 million in five, six 583 00:26:17,843 --> 00:26:18,124 years. 584 00:26:18,124 --> 00:26:22,678 And so, yeah, I mean it was it was hard to sell it. 585 00:26:23,118 --> 00:26:25,826 Yeah, and then I sold it to Global Trans in 2021. 586 00:26:25,826 --> 00:26:29,132 So, you know, because it was a good business right, Like when I 587 00:26:29,132 --> 00:26:31,440 was running around trying to sell my other business, when I 588 00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:35,195 was, you know, going down, I realized how it was a bad 589 00:26:35,276 --> 00:26:38,704 business, fundamentally because I couldn't find anybody to buy 590 00:26:38,765 --> 00:26:38,884 me. 591 00:26:38,884 --> 00:26:42,142 You know, when I got in trouble and so I second time around, I 592 00:26:42,162 --> 00:26:44,276 was like I want to build a good business because when I exit, 593 00:26:44,355 --> 00:26:45,599 it's going to make it that much easier. 594 00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:50,357 So, and that's exactly what happened, you know it was it's 595 00:26:50,377 --> 00:26:52,487 going to make it that much easier, and that's exactly what 596 00:26:52,507 --> 00:26:52,748 happened. 597 00:26:52,828 --> 00:26:54,295 Speaker 1: It was just a good fundamental business. 598 00:26:54,295 --> 00:26:55,655 So how does that then, when you go into Diablo? 599 00:26:55,655 --> 00:26:59,861 Now and you have had a successful exit and you don't 600 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,906 have the pressure and the stress of if this doesn't all go well, 601 00:27:04,906 --> 00:27:06,228 I can't feed my family. 602 00:27:06,228 --> 00:27:09,471 Now you've got a different kind of financial security that 603 00:27:09,515 --> 00:27:10,316 you're starting from. 604 00:27:10,316 --> 00:27:17,448 Do you find yourself showing up um from a position of 605 00:27:17,528 --> 00:27:22,261 confidence or stability, somehow different, that, like your 606 00:27:22,301 --> 00:27:26,496 personal finances, are taken care of so you can make 607 00:27:26,536 --> 00:27:29,097 different kinds of decisions in the third go-round? 608 00:27:29,818 --> 00:27:31,799 Speaker 2: You bet Absolutely Especially for someone who's 609 00:27:31,859 --> 00:27:35,443 bootstrapped everyone in my companies right Like. 610 00:27:35,443 --> 00:27:40,087 This was what I'm playing with house money you know, at this 611 00:27:40,107 --> 00:27:41,068 point right. 612 00:27:41,689 --> 00:27:44,932 And so you know and that was the thing with starting the second 613 00:27:44,971 --> 00:27:57,720 business I had 15 grand left and my wife and I had to have these 614 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,444 conversations where, like, do we take this 15 grand and move 615 00:27:59,464 --> 00:28:01,430 closer to family, get out of the Bay Area, go get a corporate 616 00:28:01,450 --> 00:28:02,573 job, or do we roll it back in and just go for it again? 617 00:28:02,573 --> 00:28:03,896 And she got behind me and said let's do it. 618 00:28:03,896 --> 00:28:06,729 I got faith in you and we literally went week to week, 619 00:28:07,290 --> 00:28:07,953 month to month. 620 00:28:07,953 --> 00:28:09,557 I mean, we were the last to get paid. 621 00:28:09,557 --> 00:28:12,707 I brought my top three guys over, never did cut their 622 00:28:12,747 --> 00:28:16,178 salaries, kept them on everything same bonus programs, 623 00:28:16,198 --> 00:28:18,576 all that type of stuff, but we were the last to get paid. 624 00:28:18,576 --> 00:28:22,099 So it sucked going down and it sucked going up, right. 625 00:28:22,099 --> 00:28:24,917 And so we got to a certain point where we crossed the 626 00:28:24,958 --> 00:28:25,439 threshold. 627 00:28:25,439 --> 00:28:26,101 We were clear. 628 00:28:26,101 --> 00:28:29,044 Plus, we were living personally under the thumb of a trustee, 629 00:28:29,085 --> 00:28:31,364 because we went personally bankrupt too during that time. 630 00:28:31,606 --> 00:28:33,510 Speaker 1: Got it, the company went down, took us down. 631 00:28:34,211 --> 00:28:37,472 Speaker 2: So what I'm getting at was when we finally, when I 632 00:28:37,532 --> 00:28:41,714 sold the business, we had an exit of bankruptcy, our deck was 633 00:28:41,714 --> 00:28:46,698 cleared and I had cash Right and I promised I would never go 634 00:28:46,738 --> 00:28:48,999 back to the way I did business before, where I was chasing 635 00:28:49,019 --> 00:28:52,820 other people's money Right, trying to build my business, and 636 00:28:52,820 --> 00:28:55,923 there is a distinct difference between using your money and 637 00:28:56,042 --> 00:28:57,103 somebody else's money. 638 00:28:57,103 --> 00:28:59,144 When you're building the business, I think you're more 639 00:28:59,183 --> 00:29:06,407 thoughtful about the moves you make and you're just kind of. 640 00:29:06,407 --> 00:29:12,713 There's just a different feeling about it. 641 00:29:12,713 --> 00:29:13,376 But it's a freedom, right. 642 00:29:13,376 --> 00:29:15,003 And so this is where I wanted to be in a position to be able 643 00:29:15,023 --> 00:29:16,288 to make bets and do things, based on my information that 644 00:29:16,308 --> 00:29:20,030 I've gathered over 10 or 15 years and being in the industry 645 00:29:20,132 --> 00:29:22,358 well, 25 years at this point, but at that point it was 20 646 00:29:22,378 --> 00:29:26,220 something years and so it's a different mindset, a lot more 647 00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:26,480 fun. 648 00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:31,759 Speaker 1: Winning is generally more fun than losing. 649 00:29:32,130 --> 00:29:32,932 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, right. 650 00:29:32,932 --> 00:29:37,009 So but it's you know I also relate, you know, I understand, 651 00:29:37,028 --> 00:29:39,571 you know when you're building a business and that struggle, 652 00:29:39,612 --> 00:29:42,453 especially when you don't have money or you don't come from 653 00:29:42,473 --> 00:29:44,895 money you know it's trying to cross that Rubicon of being able 654 00:29:44,895 --> 00:29:46,396 to be like gosh. 655 00:29:46,477 --> 00:29:48,118 Speaker 1: okay, I got money, now that I can now invest in 656 00:29:48,159 --> 00:29:58,586 myself and move forward uh, cinderella story, where what 657 00:29:58,626 --> 00:30:01,569 people do, storytelling one-on-one for just a quick 658 00:30:01,609 --> 00:30:04,075 second, the the Cinderella story ? 659 00:30:04,075 --> 00:30:05,746 Everybody thinks that it's. 660 00:30:05,746 --> 00:30:08,237 You know, she had a terrible life and then it ended with 661 00:30:08,278 --> 00:30:08,920 Prince charming. 662 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,696 That's not the Cinderella story . 663 00:30:10,696 --> 00:30:16,439 The Cinderella story was um, she had a great life and then 664 00:30:16,499 --> 00:30:19,698 they don't explain why, but her mom died or left or something. 665 00:30:19,698 --> 00:30:20,451 You know the. 666 00:30:20,451 --> 00:30:25,680 Her dad was alone and then got remarried and the stepmother was 667 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,884 wicked and that was the decline . 668 00:30:28,632 --> 00:30:32,104 Right before that, things were pretty good yeah so that that 669 00:30:32,163 --> 00:30:34,971 storytelling you know structure is like there was a rise and 670 00:30:34,991 --> 00:30:37,537 then there was a fall, and that's where the story starts 671 00:30:37,998 --> 00:30:41,003 and then it ends with a rise back to they lived happily ever 672 00:30:41,104 --> 00:30:41,324 after. 673 00:30:41,324 --> 00:30:46,054 What I have found in the hundreds and hundreds of people 674 00:30:46,134 --> 00:30:50,778 that I've interviewed and talked to about their stories, the 675 00:30:50,919 --> 00:30:54,083 ones who understand or who have experienced that pattern like 676 00:30:54,143 --> 00:30:57,625 you you had the rise with business number one and then it 677 00:30:57,685 --> 00:31:02,599 crashed, and then you, in your second business, had the happily 678 00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:03,201 ever after. 679 00:31:03,201 --> 00:31:07,115 You appreciate things differently than somebody who's 680 00:31:07,195 --> 00:31:11,542 never had failure or somebody who's never who's only ever had 681 00:31:11,702 --> 00:31:16,596 up and to the right, and they develop hubris, overconfidence, 682 00:31:16,736 --> 00:31:21,001 and then their fall is coming, not always, but sometimes you 683 00:31:21,122 --> 00:31:22,525 bet, it's usually always. 684 00:31:30,250 --> 00:31:31,894 It's usually just around the corner, and so I think we're so 685 00:31:31,914 --> 00:31:34,903 drawn to stories that remind us of those things, and yours is 686 00:31:34,923 --> 00:31:35,325 one of those. 687 00:31:35,325 --> 00:31:37,852 But you also shared with me before we started recording that 688 00:31:37,852 --> 00:31:40,661 sometimes you still have this imposter syndrome that creeps up 689 00:31:40,661 --> 00:31:44,367 , and is that maybe a fear that you might lose it all again 690 00:31:44,448 --> 00:31:48,338 someday, or that it might've been a your success? 691 00:31:48,338 --> 00:31:50,695 The second time might've been a fluke, like, how do you? 692 00:31:50,695 --> 00:31:53,933 Because from the outside I would hear what you've been 693 00:31:53,973 --> 00:31:58,354 through and think you should have tons of confidence, but a 694 00:31:58,413 --> 00:32:01,414 healthy confidence that you can survive anything, you know, come 695 00:32:01,414 --> 00:32:04,561 what may, because you already have once. 696 00:32:04,561 --> 00:32:06,416 So unpack that for me. 697 00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:08,354 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of some of both. 698 00:32:08,354 --> 00:32:12,556 Really, to be honest with you, I tell anybody now that sells 699 00:32:12,596 --> 00:32:14,461 their business to get a therapist as well. 700 00:32:15,573 --> 00:32:19,522 I mean you need an attorney, you need you know an accountant, 701 00:32:19,809 --> 00:32:22,277 you know tax people, and then you need a therapist, because 702 00:32:22,718 --> 00:32:25,436 there is a lot of mind messing around going on when that 703 00:32:25,477 --> 00:32:26,420 happens. 704 00:32:26,420 --> 00:32:29,250 And I've talked to a lot of other people that have done it 705 00:32:29,270 --> 00:32:31,135 too and they feel the same way. 706 00:32:31,135 --> 00:32:32,199 And it doesn't matter how big. 707 00:32:32,199 --> 00:32:34,592 It is right, it could be a billion dollar company, it could 708 00:32:34,592 --> 00:32:35,173 be a small. 709 00:32:35,173 --> 00:32:38,359 It's something that you know, you kind of tie yourself to, and 710 00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:42,428 then you have to kind of it's a journey, you're on Right and 711 00:32:42,548 --> 00:32:44,596 and then you kind of get to the end of it and you look back on 712 00:32:44,636 --> 00:32:47,329 you're like, wow, I dodged this, I dodged that, I did that. 713 00:32:47,711 --> 00:32:51,253 But yeah, I mean, it was very conflicting for me because you 714 00:32:51,295 --> 00:32:53,596 would think that right, like you would be in this position where 715 00:32:53,596 --> 00:32:55,880 I should have the most supreme confidence in myself at that 716 00:32:55,940 --> 00:32:56,180 point. 717 00:32:56,180 --> 00:32:59,042 And not that I didn't, you know , I do have, you know, a lot of 718 00:32:59,083 --> 00:33:01,506 confidence in myself because I do know that I can handle 719 00:33:01,546 --> 00:33:03,853 anything that's thrown at me and I have the strength of 720 00:33:03,913 --> 00:33:07,319 resilience, this, this muscle I've built up over time. 721 00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:12,253 Um, but it's sitting in that moments of like you know, how 722 00:33:12,273 --> 00:33:16,419 did it happen for me, you know, and it didn't happen for x, y, z 723 00:33:16,419 --> 00:33:21,484 or you know, just kind of like did I get lucky? 724 00:33:21,484 --> 00:33:22,566 It was this. 725 00:33:22,891 --> 00:33:26,398 you know all these things and some of that is true, right like 726 00:33:26,398 --> 00:33:30,015 it plays a role, for sure it plays timing, you know I mean, 727 00:33:30,035 --> 00:33:33,021 but I believe you create your own luck and you know, you take 728 00:33:33,061 --> 00:33:36,115 advantage of your opportunities, and I think that was the 729 00:33:36,174 --> 00:33:41,451 biggest thing for me is and even now, I don't squander, I don't 730 00:33:41,511 --> 00:33:42,737 take opportunities lightly. 731 00:33:42,737 --> 00:33:46,380 You know, I try to identify them and then make the most of 732 00:33:46,420 --> 00:33:51,077 them, and whether they're ones that have fallen in my lap or 733 00:33:51,259 --> 00:33:54,284 ones that I've created for myself, it doesn't matter. 734 00:33:54,730 --> 00:33:58,121 Speaker 1: They're all treated the same, and so I just kind of 735 00:33:58,650 --> 00:34:01,038 who are you now dangerous question? 736 00:34:01,570 --> 00:34:04,778 Speaker 2: yeah, no, it's kind of, you know, I'm very confident 737 00:34:04,778 --> 00:34:07,002 , obviously, but I'm also humble , right, like you know. 738 00:34:07,002 --> 00:34:09,376 Getting back to the fact that, like it can happen to anybody, 739 00:34:09,436 --> 00:34:13,893 right, business is an imperfect science, it's a sport, it's, 740 00:34:14,034 --> 00:34:16,519 it's a way you know the ball, you know the ball can bounce 741 00:34:16,559 --> 00:34:20,157 different ways and you've got to be able to you, you know, kind 742 00:34:20,197 --> 00:34:22,635 of go with it Right and and be able to learn. 743 00:34:22,635 --> 00:34:25,637 And so I'm doing all that stuff , you know, and I'm still kind 744 00:34:25,677 --> 00:34:26,880 of figuring that out. 745 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,534 But you know, I was in a. 746 00:34:29,014 --> 00:34:31,621 I got interviewed by entrepreneur magazine shortly 747 00:34:31,780 --> 00:34:35,192 after I was kind of coming back and you know I was telling him 748 00:34:35,211 --> 00:34:37,012 about that, my first business. 749 00:34:37,012 --> 00:34:38,014 I had a success. 750 00:34:38,014 --> 00:34:41,795 Especially, it was going through 2008, 2009, when every 751 00:34:41,896 --> 00:34:43,556 other business around you was crumbling. 752 00:34:43,556 --> 00:34:45,137 I was having success. 753 00:34:45,137 --> 00:34:47,539 Everything I touched turned to gold. 754 00:34:47,539 --> 00:34:51,161 I was like, wow, this is easy. 755 00:34:51,161 --> 00:34:55,023 This whole entrepreneur thing. 756 00:34:55,023 --> 00:34:57,266 Like there is another side, there's. 757 00:34:57,266 --> 00:34:58,867 You know you're going to get hit. 758 00:34:59,507 --> 00:35:02,371 If you kind of stay in that mindset and that's kind of what 759 00:35:02,391 --> 00:35:05,157 happened is I just, you know, even though I saw it, kind of 760 00:35:05,177 --> 00:35:09,164 saw it coming, it knocks you off your feet in how you respond to 761 00:35:09,164 --> 00:35:10,112 it and a lot of times. 762 00:35:10,112 --> 00:35:11,498 People have never had that before. 763 00:35:11,498 --> 00:35:14,217 They've never been through a time where they've had to be 764 00:35:14,257 --> 00:35:15,621 resilient and they crumble. 765 00:35:15,621 --> 00:35:20,574 I was fortunate that I kind of had built some coping mechanisms 766 00:35:20,574 --> 00:35:21,237 to be resilient and they crumble. 767 00:35:21,237 --> 00:35:22,581 I was fortunate that I kind of had built some coping mechanisms 768 00:35:22,581 --> 00:35:23,244 to be able to bounce back. 769 00:35:23,264 --> 00:35:25,251 But it's important to understand that you can't get too full 770 00:35:25,291 --> 00:35:25,731 yourself. 771 00:35:25,731 --> 00:35:28,840 No matter how much success you've had, you've always got to 772 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:29,461 stay learning. 773 00:35:29,461 --> 00:35:33,217 You've always got to stay, you know, continue to be 774 00:35:33,358 --> 00:35:33,900 uncomfortable. 775 00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:35,242 Comfortable being uncomfortable . 776 00:35:35,242 --> 00:35:37,235 You know I talked to my daughters a lot about this right 777 00:35:37,235 --> 00:35:38,679 now, where it's like, you know, I got kind of a real 778 00:35:38,699 --> 00:35:39,039 comfortable life. 779 00:35:39,039 --> 00:35:40,260 You know I talk to my daughters a lot about this right now, 780 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,163 where it's like, you know, I got kind of a real comfortable life 781 00:35:42,163 --> 00:35:42,382 , you know. 782 00:35:42,382 --> 00:35:43,844 So we have to, you know, find some places where they're 783 00:35:43,884 --> 00:35:47,067 uncomfortable sometimes, so we learn some things right and 784 00:35:47,086 --> 00:35:48,512 that's good, you know. 785 00:35:48,572 --> 00:35:50,478 Speaker 1: It's because comfort, comfort and growth don't go 786 00:35:50,518 --> 00:35:50,998 hand in hand. 787 00:35:50,998 --> 00:35:52,451 Very often they don't don't? 788 00:35:52,532 --> 00:35:54,358 Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's another challenge, right? 789 00:35:54,358 --> 00:35:57,893 You know, when you do have some comfort now, then how do you 790 00:35:57,913 --> 00:35:59,297 keep that fire burning? 791 00:35:59,297 --> 00:36:03,684 And, um, how do you, you know, keep it going and not just kick 792 00:36:03,704 --> 00:36:05,269 your feet up, like I was talking about earlier? 793 00:36:05,269 --> 00:36:08,161 Um, because I just I'm, I'm a firm believer. 794 00:36:08,161 --> 00:36:09,304 You got to be on your toes. 795 00:36:09,304 --> 00:36:11,431 I mean, I've been playing sports, I'm always in the balls 796 00:36:11,472 --> 00:36:14,018 of my feet, you're moving forward, being ready to react to 797 00:36:14,018 --> 00:36:15,311 what comes your way. 798 00:36:15,311 --> 00:36:17,135 Um, and then get back up. 799 00:36:17,135 --> 00:36:19,061 You know, you, you get knocked down, you're going to get 800 00:36:19,331 --> 00:36:19,952 blindsided. 801 00:36:19,952 --> 00:36:22,918 But yeah, it's just one of those deals where you just have 802 00:36:22,938 --> 00:36:26,134 to be real with yourself and understand that you don't know 803 00:36:26,153 --> 00:36:28,079 it all and you always got to keep learning. 804 00:36:28,079 --> 00:36:32,277 And the more you learn and the more you get up from challenges, 805 00:36:32,277 --> 00:36:35,771 that creates a resiliency that does give you confidence that 806 00:36:36,431 --> 00:36:37,773 there's virtually not much that could. 807 00:36:37,773 --> 00:36:41,000 I can't think of much that could probably come my way that 808 00:36:41,039 --> 00:36:43,182 I couldn't handle, because now I have the structures in place to 809 00:36:43,182 --> 00:36:44,105 be able to process it. 810 00:36:45,391 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: Well, your story is one that I love sharing. 811 00:36:49,541 --> 00:36:50,302 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that. 812 00:36:51,652 --> 00:36:54,797 Speaker 1: I hope somebody else is listening to this who is in 813 00:36:54,817 --> 00:36:58,623 the middle of their storm, whatever it is, and recognizes 814 00:36:58,663 --> 00:36:59,784 that this too shall pass. 815 00:36:59,784 --> 00:37:02,695 Now you can't just hope that it's going to pass. 816 00:37:02,695 --> 00:37:03,458 You got to act. 817 00:37:03,458 --> 00:37:05,931 You have to make good choices, you have to do all the things. 818 00:37:05,931 --> 00:37:09,940 If it doesn't turn out and things fail, there's hope after 819 00:37:09,981 --> 00:37:10,702 that also. 820 00:37:11,289 --> 00:37:13,197 Speaker 2: You bet there's actually bigger hope. 821 00:37:13,197 --> 00:37:14,322 You know what I mean. 822 00:37:14,322 --> 00:37:16,811 I feel like some people get spoiled by less. 823 00:37:16,811 --> 00:37:19,958 They don't have any failure right, so they they kind of 824 00:37:20,179 --> 00:37:21,262 plateau the. 825 00:37:21,262 --> 00:37:24,891 The only way to get through greatness is only established 826 00:37:24,911 --> 00:37:25,632 through adversity. 827 00:37:25,632 --> 00:37:31,284 You know, and I've never met a successful person that has not 828 00:37:31,409 --> 00:37:35,398 experienced some sort of adversity and in order to be 829 00:37:35,458 --> 00:37:38,213 successful, it's just something you have to go through well, 830 00:37:38,233 --> 00:37:38,594 well said. 831 00:37:38,614 --> 00:37:40,099 Yeah, it'll come your way. 832 00:37:40,099 --> 00:37:46,570 But you know, at the same time you stick through it, it does 833 00:37:46,590 --> 00:37:47,371 get better on the other side. 834 00:37:47,371 --> 00:37:48,612 You know, I was just thinking about this the other day. 835 00:37:48,612 --> 00:37:52,155 Sometimes I put myself in those moments of where I was the most 836 00:37:52,155 --> 00:37:52,534 stressed. 837 00:37:52,534 --> 00:37:56,297 You know, and you know, I was laying on the floor of my office 838 00:37:56,297 --> 00:38:00,521 like can't breathe and thinking like I'm here now and I would 839 00:38:00,561 --> 00:38:02,942 never have seen myself here now in that moment. 840 00:38:02,942 --> 00:38:05,724 So you just got to get up and you just got to keep fighting. 841 00:38:06,403 --> 00:38:09,246 Speaker 1: I wonder if this is the entrepreneurial version of 842 00:38:09,987 --> 00:38:10,067 you. 843 00:38:10,067 --> 00:38:13,251 Know what your grandparents would say you think you've got 844 00:38:13,271 --> 00:38:15,255 it rough, like we had to walk uphill to school both ways, you 845 00:38:15,275 --> 00:38:17,701 know through the snow with my brother on my back. 846 00:38:17,701 --> 00:38:22,512 Backward, yeah, to school both ways, you know through the snow, 847 00:38:22,512 --> 00:38:23,134 with my brother on my back. 848 00:38:23,134 --> 00:38:26,940 But there is some universal guidance in all of that, and so 849 00:38:26,981 --> 00:38:29,510 thanks for the vulnerability of just like opening up and saying, 850 00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:33,259 hey, here's the good, the bad and the ugly of what I've been 851 00:38:33,298 --> 00:38:33,579 through. 852 00:38:33,579 --> 00:38:37,117 Regardless of what those circumstances are, you can find 853 00:38:37,179 --> 00:38:39,429 success professionally. 854 00:38:39,429 --> 00:38:42,739 It can help develop and grow you individually. 855 00:38:42,778 --> 00:38:43,641 You mentioned your daughters. 856 00:38:43,641 --> 00:38:46,695 I know how big of a role they play in your life and how you 857 00:38:46,735 --> 00:38:50,681 want to model certain things for them and the values that you 858 00:38:50,721 --> 00:38:53,844 show up with in your work life and then in your home life too, 859 00:38:53,969 --> 00:38:58,112 because entrepreneurship isn't just a day job, it's just not 860 00:38:58,313 --> 00:38:59,798 something that happens eight hours a day. 861 00:38:59,798 --> 00:39:02,311 It's a whole family, it's all. 862 00:39:02,311 --> 00:39:07,376 Yeah, it's an encompassing experience and whatever happens 863 00:39:07,536 --> 00:39:11,335 next in your experience, tyson, thank you for well one. 864 00:39:11,335 --> 00:39:12,478 We wish you very, very well. 865 00:39:12,478 --> 00:39:15,831 I want to keep our conversation going for a long time because I 866 00:39:15,831 --> 00:39:18,414 learn something new every time we talk and as I share every 867 00:39:18,434 --> 00:39:20,898 time we talk, and as I share every time we're all rooting for 868 00:39:20,898 --> 00:39:21,039 you. 869 00:39:21,780 --> 00:39:23,822 Speaker 2: I appreciate that, nate, and likewise I appreciate 870 00:39:23,842 --> 00:39:30,471 you creating this platform, you know, for people to learn from 871 00:39:30,490 --> 00:39:31,552 and and be on and, you know, share their stories. 872 00:39:31,552 --> 00:39:32,213 So I think it's really important. 873 00:39:32,213 --> 00:39:33,436 You know, when I was going through those difficult times, I 874 00:39:33,436 --> 00:39:34,637 was reaching out to find similar stories. 875 00:39:34,637 --> 00:39:38,043 You know, just to kind of be like okay, like if he can get 876 00:39:38,083 --> 00:39:39,224 through it, I can get through it . 877 00:39:39,224 --> 00:39:42,128 So if I can be that for somebody and you can be that 878 00:39:42,168 --> 00:39:45,036 platform, you know, that's great and I just appreciate it and 879 00:39:45,056 --> 00:39:46,179 thank you again for having me on . 880 00:39:46,789 --> 00:39:48,474 Speaker 1: Of course, if somebody wants to reach out to 881 00:39:48,536 --> 00:39:49,860 you, where's the best place to find you? 882 00:39:50,849 --> 00:39:51,771 Speaker 2: LinkedIn's the best place. 883 00:39:51,771 --> 00:39:55,494 So just look at Tyson Lawrence and LinkedIn. 884 00:39:55,494 --> 00:39:58,657 Or, you know, shoot me an email , t Lawrence at Diablo 885 00:39:58,697 --> 00:39:59,639 freightcom. 886 00:39:59,639 --> 00:40:02,121 You can go to our website, diablo freightcom. 887 00:40:02,121 --> 00:40:05,605 My marketing people put me all over it so you'll see. 888 00:40:06,806 --> 00:40:11,891 Speaker 1: Right on so if they can't, if somebody can't find 889 00:40:11,911 --> 00:40:13,552 you, then you got to have a tough conversation with somebody 890 00:40:13,552 --> 00:40:14,152 in marketing Right on. 891 00:40:14,152 --> 00:40:15,373 Okay, thank you, tyson, take care. 892 00:40:15,373 --> 00:40:16,253 Thanks, nate. 893 00:40:16,253 --> 00:40:21,496 Thanks for listening to another episode of the Bootstrapper's 894 00:40:21,536 --> 00:40:24,119 Guide to Logistics, and a special thank you to our 895 00:40:24,157 --> 00:40:27,139 sponsors and the team behind the scenes who make it all possible 896 00:40:27,139 --> 00:40:27,139 . 897 00:40:27,139 --> 00:40:30,623 Be sure to like, follow or subscribe to the podcast to get 898 00:40:30,643 --> 00:40:31,422 the latest updates. 899 00:40:31,422 --> 00:40:34,485 To learn more about the show and connect with the growing 900 00:40:34,545 --> 00:40:37,907 community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounderscom. 901 00:40:37,907 --> 00:40:44,784 And, of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to 902 00:40:44,784 --> 00:40:46,132 share their stories.