WEBVTT 00:00:01.766 --> 00:00:08.150 Hello and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 00:00:08.150 --> 00:00:12.569 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and inspiring others to take the leap. 00:00:12.569 --> 00:00:16.510 It's a roller coaster ride that you might ultimately fail. 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:19.068 That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 00:00:19.782 --> 00:00:20.646 It was very hard. 00:00:20.646 --> 00:00:23.047 It truly is building a legacy. 00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:26.268 The more life you live, the more wisdom you have. 00:00:26.839 --> 00:00:30.271 Because we are where we're supposed to be, kind of answering the call. 00:00:30.271 --> 00:00:33.209 Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 00:00:33.209 --> 00:00:35.134 I'm your host, Nate Schutz. 00:00:35.134 --> 00:00:38.204 Let's build something together from the ground up. 00:00:38.204 --> 00:00:44.121 Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics. 00:00:44.121 --> 00:00:50.134 We are still doing what we've always done sharing founder stories, hoping to educate and inspire others. 00:00:50.134 --> 00:01:15.352 Some folks are on the fence about whether or not they should jump into their first business, and then there are others, like our guest today, Tyson Lawrence, who's the founder and CEO of Diablo Freight Ventures that are on their third venture, and so today we're going to unpack parts of his journey, understand what makes him tick and why he's so bullish about the future in his third rodeo. 00:01:15.352 --> 00:01:17.518 So with that, Tyson, good morning. 00:01:17.518 --> 00:01:19.221 It's so good to see you, my friend. 00:01:19.221 --> 00:01:20.887 I can't wait to unpack your journey. 00:01:20.887 --> 00:01:22.370 How are we finding you today? 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:25.728 Great Nate, appreciate you having me on. 00:01:25.728 --> 00:01:34.802 I've been a fan of the show for a while, so it's kind of a real honor to be here, and you know I'm a big fan of yours and I enjoy having conversations with you, so I'm looking forward to it. 00:01:35.283 --> 00:01:35.765 Same. 00:01:35.765 --> 00:01:44.054 I enjoy our conversations because they're wide range and we talk about everything from family to business, to values and everything in between. 00:01:44.054 --> 00:01:51.170 I think you have a pretty compelling story, because I already know most of it, but other folks don't, so why don't we start? 00:01:51.170 --> 00:01:53.902 I obviously mentioned this is your third venture. 00:01:53.902 --> 00:02:00.602 Why don't you take us first on an overview of what Diablo is, and then what have you done previously? 00:02:01.665 --> 00:02:01.885 Sure. 00:02:01.885 --> 00:02:05.593 So Diablo for me is kind of a culmination of my career to this point. 00:02:05.593 --> 00:02:21.787 I've been in the industry about 25 years and ups and downs, and I started Diablo to kind of encompass everything that I have, all the interests that I have in the industry, from some investments that I have and some industry startups, things like that. 00:02:21.787 --> 00:02:31.437 I do coaching and consulting, you know, m&a to freight brokerages, to um, and then I have a unishippers franchise also that. 00:02:31.437 --> 00:02:42.695 So it's kind of three separate things all under one umbrella, um, kind of for me in a given day I'm kind of working on one of those three things, um, but it keeps me in the kind of in the ball game a little bit. 00:02:42.695 --> 00:02:47.311 And you know that's what I'm doing right now with Diablo Freight. 00:02:47.539 --> 00:02:54.633 But you know, like I said, I got started in the industry 25 years ago, kind of blindly, kind of like a lot of people in logistics. 00:02:54.633 --> 00:03:00.302 You know we find our way to this great industry and then we can't get out, but nor do I want out out. 00:03:00.302 --> 00:03:20.009 But, um, I got hired by ch robinson in 2000, 2001, right around there, and then kind of got my education, you know, with them for about two, two and a half years and then realized I wasn't a real corporate guy, um, and I kind of wanted to get out and see what some of the smaller options were out there in the industry. 00:03:20.009 --> 00:03:30.052 So worked at drage and then um did some produce for a for a while out in monterey on the you Coast here and then started my first freight brokerage in 2006. 00:03:30.052 --> 00:03:46.391 So that was my first foyer into it and we were pretty much niched into refrigerated transportation, so anything you know produce eggs, some pharmaceuticals, floral, anything highly perishable we wanted to get involved with. 00:03:46.391 --> 00:03:50.703 So, um, that was my first four year and you know I've learned a lot. 00:03:51.866 --> 00:03:59.473 I wonder if we were at the same new employee seminar back in the day, because I joined Robinson in very uh, early 2002. 00:03:59.473 --> 00:04:00.474 And we we may have. 00:04:00.474 --> 00:04:04.925 I was on the global forwarding side back then, but we may have crossed paths and didn't know it. 00:04:04.925 --> 00:04:09.794 But that's part of the Robinson tree is that it just continues to expand. 00:04:09.794 --> 00:04:20.053 And for others it was XPO or Coyote or somewhere else, was the beginning of their tree, but I didn't realize that we were within a year of each other at the same place. 00:04:20.757 --> 00:04:27.322 Yeah, we're pretty close and that's the thing about it, and I was very fortunate that Global Trans or CH Robinson hired me. 00:04:27.322 --> 00:04:41.514 I had no clue who they were and what their level of importance in the industry really, so I mean I walked blindly into it and at the time there wasn't any really big dogs on the block right, like Coyote wasn't around. 00:04:41.514 --> 00:04:47.057 A lot of these other trees you mentioned that have come about since they weren't really around. 00:04:47.057 --> 00:04:49.665 And CH was an interesting point. 00:04:49.665 --> 00:04:52.928 They bought up their competition American Backhaulers. 00:04:52.928 --> 00:05:03.473 At that point I got to see a little bit of that which is legendary and that kind of sparked a little bit of my vision of what I wanted to eventually build. 00:05:05.367 --> 00:05:20.391 And, yeah, I'm just incredibly grateful that I got an opportunity to work for CH Robson and I poo pooed him forever, like I was like whatever you know, like who are these guys and you know, to their credit, they kept after me and you know I was applying that was thecom boom kind of when I came out, or bust really. 00:05:20.391 --> 00:05:36.774 But there were a lot of opportunities around that were more sexy, right, sure, prestigious right, and so, uh, anyway, all they had to say is they were, they were going to move me to california and I was in and you're still there to this day. 00:05:36.853 --> 00:05:37.214 So what? 00:05:37.214 --> 00:05:39.141 What ended up happening with your first venture then? 00:05:39.141 --> 00:05:39.761 What was it? 00:05:39.761 --> 00:05:43.084 Um beyond, so you, you, you mentioned it's refrigerated. 00:05:43.084 --> 00:05:48.211 You're doing a lot of perishables, straight brokerage, and then what happened? 00:05:49.072 --> 00:05:49.333 Yeah. 00:05:49.333 --> 00:05:56.389 So you know I kind of taken my experience to that point and I was at that time I'd worked with large enterprise accounts. 00:05:56.389 --> 00:05:58.394 I was very like at CH. 00:05:58.394 --> 00:06:14.612 I got an opportunity at a very young age to be in some big boardrooms you know like Unilever best foods and listen to some of these conversations right, and kind of break that veil of you know like scariness of seeing like you know this isn't too bad, these people are just like you. 00:06:14.612 --> 00:06:16.187 It's just they got more experience than you. 00:06:16.187 --> 00:06:31.788 And so I kind of walked, worked in that enterprise account area for a long time and so when I went to a smaller brokerage they had a big enterprise account that they put me on and allowed me to kind of start building there and when I left I was able to kind of take some of that business with me. 00:06:31.908 --> 00:06:34.901 So my first business really was around an enterprise account. 00:06:34.901 --> 00:06:42.922 It was a large retail grocery chain I'm Safeway it's been so long now at this point and we worked with their produce on the I-5. 00:06:42.922 --> 00:06:54.011 And out here on the West Coast, california goes off during the summertime, like most people know, and then in the wintertime it picks up in Washington. 00:06:54.011 --> 00:07:00.956 So there's a kind of a constant cycle that I worked in of contract freight and enterprise accounts going up and down the I-5. 00:07:00.956 --> 00:07:08.141 So that's where I built the first business off of. 00:07:08.163 --> 00:07:09.305 Was um just really focused on um produce. 00:07:09.305 --> 00:07:37.732 I mean, like I said, we supplemented it with, you know, other types of refrigerated stuff, but we really were in the produce game and I was doing retail uh or like uh, contract freights or contract rates, which was really, you know it's really nerve wracking, you know, in the produce game doing that because there's such swings, you know, and we had that relationship for a long time, you know, about 10 years if not longer if I count my previous year. 00:07:37.732 --> 00:07:44.827 And so as I was building that company, I started realizing that I was really in bed with Safeway, like I had 85% of my business with them. 00:07:45.500 --> 00:07:46.009 Heavy concentration sure. 00:07:46.009 --> 00:07:46.540 Heavy concentration Sure. 00:07:46.740 --> 00:07:56.788 Heavy concentration and it was easy to do, right, when you're building a business and you're trying to bring things on and you get a good customer and a big customer and they've got a lot of opportunities inside of their business. 00:07:56.788 --> 00:08:11.454 You know, you kind of think you're diversifying yourself, you know, but you're really still under one umbrella and I started to realize that and it got me kind of nervous, you know, and I was a new business owner, I was 20 at this age, I was 28, 29. 00:08:11.454 --> 00:08:17.540 And you know, kind of in a silo, right, like back then, there wasn't a lot of information out there. 00:08:17.540 --> 00:08:18.543 There was Google, right. 00:08:18.543 --> 00:08:21.850 I mean there wasn't social media, youtube. 00:08:22.271 --> 00:08:24.586 You know a lot of people, especially out here in California. 00:08:24.586 --> 00:08:26.233 You know I would tell people I did. 00:08:26.233 --> 00:08:28.000 You know a lot of people, especially out here in California. 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:29.355 You know I would tell people I did. 00:08:29.355 --> 00:08:30.653 You know I was a freight broker and they'd look at me like I had a third head. 00:08:30.653 --> 00:08:32.010 You know they were just like they didn't know what that meant. 00:08:32.010 --> 00:08:33.990 You know, out in the Midwest it's a little different, right. 00:08:33.990 --> 00:08:37.041 You know people, there's a lot more concentration of our industry there. 00:08:37.041 --> 00:08:44.006 So it was just kind of, you know, trying to learn how to run a business, and that was one of the biggest things that popped up in my head. 00:08:44.006 --> 00:08:46.008 I was bootstrapping it. 00:08:46.008 --> 00:08:48.690 I didn't have any money. 00:08:48.690 --> 00:08:56.856 Really, what got me off the ground was the fact that I was able to get paid in 15 days for my customer, and then I was able to pay my trucks in 30. 00:08:58.440 --> 00:08:59.163 And that kind of allowed me. 00:08:59.163 --> 00:09:01.509 So you were cash flow positive as a small brokerage. 00:09:01.509 --> 00:09:02.604 Do you know how rare that is? 00:09:03.225 --> 00:09:07.282 Very rare At the as a small brokerage. 00:09:07.282 --> 00:09:07.703 Do you know how rare? 00:09:07.703 --> 00:09:08.267 That is Very rare, you know. 00:09:08.267 --> 00:09:08.687 At the time I didn't. 00:09:08.687 --> 00:09:09.974 You know, at the time I thought, you know, this is just like I got. 00:09:09.974 --> 00:09:10.596 You know, all right, let's rock. 00:09:10.596 --> 00:09:10.777 You know. 00:09:10.777 --> 00:09:27.484 Like you know, I can start a business, you know, cause I didn't come from money, I didn't have money, I didn't have a lot of, you know, and this is capital intensive business, right, and especially if you're an independent broker and so, anyway, that really was a big lift, you know, to get us going. 00:09:27.484 --> 00:09:32.629 You know that changed over time and I had to learn how to adjust with that because you know they changed their terms. 00:09:32.629 --> 00:09:42.525 That made a big difference with me with 85%, you know sometimes they, you know if they wanted to get paid faster, I became reliant on that money you know, coming in early. 00:09:42.586 --> 00:09:54.393 So, anyway, I was just learning a lot of this stuff about running a freight brokerage and my biggest concern was, towards the end, trying to get diversified, and I just couldn't get there. 00:09:54.393 --> 00:10:00.706 And then, sure enough, what happened I was worried about happening was we got into a dispute with Safeway, which happens in the produce game. 00:10:00.706 --> 00:10:12.200 There's a lot of claims and stuff like that and so, um, you know, one thing led to another and, um, really, the best route for me to do is to uh, take the company into bankruptcy. 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:16.176 So you know, that was a really hard decision and that's all. 00:10:16.176 --> 00:10:17.038 There was a whole nother. 00:10:17.038 --> 00:10:18.322 You know, that's all wrapped around it. 00:10:18.322 --> 00:10:26.087 But my first kind of for you, after 10 years we were about 10, 11 years old thought I had gotten over the hump, um, we were taken out. 00:10:26.087 --> 00:10:28.933 So that was a lot of learning. 00:10:29.620 --> 00:10:32.586 How did you handle that, just as a human being? 00:10:32.586 --> 00:10:34.610 Forget the business side of it. 00:10:34.610 --> 00:10:38.509 I imagine that stirred up a whole bunch of questions about you. 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:41.121 Oh sure, absolutely yeah. 00:10:41.121 --> 00:10:43.342 I mean it was a really there's. 00:10:43.342 --> 00:10:46.645 It was a really pivotal, pivotal time in my life. 00:10:46.645 --> 00:10:49.048 You know I was late 20s, early 30s. 00:10:49.048 --> 00:10:49.688 I was 30. 00:10:49.688 --> 00:10:58.076 We had just early 30s, we just had our second daughter and you know you're as a father, you're thinking about all that stuff, you know. 00:10:58.076 --> 00:11:13.307 So that was weighing in there, um regret, like man, I wish I could start over again, like there's so many things that I would have done differently that were just inherent in our business and the foundation of how I built it that I just couldn't turn um around. 00:11:13.307 --> 00:11:16.091 So, yeah, there was a lot of conflict there. 00:11:16.091 --> 00:11:20.769 There was, you know, feeling like I'd squandered my chance to be an entrepreneur. 00:11:20.769 --> 00:11:23.347 You know it was soul sucking to like have to start looking at jobs again in corporate America. 00:11:23.347 --> 00:11:28.486 And you know it was soul-sucking to like have to start looking at jobs again in corporate america and you know thinking that's the route I wanted to go. 00:11:28.486 --> 00:11:29.970 So, yeah, it was. 00:11:29.970 --> 00:11:33.947 It was very um challenging, but you know there was. 00:11:34.147 --> 00:11:52.893 You know, when you go through these moments in life and then you know I've been through a few of them you know where just, you get the wind kicked out of your, you know, knocked out of you, where you have moments clarity, and it's in those moments of clarity where you have to kind of make the decisions of how you want to respond and how you want to handle the situation. 00:11:52.893 --> 00:11:57.447 I lost my dad when I was 17 years old, right after high school, and that was my first one right. 00:11:57.447 --> 00:12:08.384 And so within 10 years, from that moment to 26, I went to college, I graduated with California, started my own business. 00:12:08.384 --> 00:12:12.745 So I was looking at that, going, look, if I can overcome that, I can definitely overcome this. 00:12:12.745 --> 00:12:14.996 I just got to kind of figure out how that is. 00:12:14.996 --> 00:12:19.812 I need to adjust my mindset and, you know, try to take another bite at the apple. 00:12:20.455 --> 00:12:23.264 So would you say, resilience, then, is one of your biggest strengths. 00:12:24.126 --> 00:12:25.650 Oh, 100%, 100%. 00:12:25.650 --> 00:12:28.450 And resilience is like it's a muscle man. 00:12:28.450 --> 00:12:30.566 It's really like anybody can have it. 00:12:30.566 --> 00:12:31.850 It's a matter of work. 00:12:31.850 --> 00:12:37.938 Most people focus on working on their physical muscle and the brain, and resilience is the same way. 00:12:37.938 --> 00:12:43.633 Right, you've got to break it down and rebuild it and then develop processes in which to handle it. 00:12:43.692 --> 00:12:52.706 And I come to I realized, you know, there was a moment during that clarity when I was thinking like I had a little bit of what was me, which I'm not, you know, one of those people. 00:12:52.706 --> 00:12:53.769 I'm not you know victim. 00:12:53.769 --> 00:13:00.279 But I started thinking god dang, am I ever going to be able to just like cruise, kick my feet up and have everything work right? 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:04.346 And then it hit me like a thunderbolt where I was like that's not life. 00:13:04.346 --> 00:13:12.395 It's never going to be that way and, especially if you want to be an entrepreneur and especially if you want to be in this business, you're never going to be able to put your feet up. 00:13:12.395 --> 00:13:24.763 You're never going to reach that point where you know you can just like kick back and relax if you're in the game and if you're pushing and you're wanting to do things. 00:13:24.763 --> 00:13:26.464 So I've got to learn how to adjust to this. 00:13:26.464 --> 00:13:27.705 I got to learn how to deal with this. 00:13:27.705 --> 00:13:31.506 I got to be able to, you know, get my mind around a way to handle these challenges. 00:13:31.726 --> 00:13:36.070 And then I started looking back at how I handled the biggest challenge of my life and I just started breaking it down. 00:13:36.070 --> 00:13:38.431 And it wasn't overnight, you know. 00:13:38.431 --> 00:13:44.554 I had a lot of you know moments of you know self-doubt and you know those quiet moments at night. 00:13:44.554 --> 00:13:57.721 Those were hard Because basically I had to take it down and then I also kind of saw a pathway out and we can talk about that next. 00:13:57.721 --> 00:14:06.912 But it was really kind of trying to not give up on yourself and really have a good mental narrative in your head and find the positive stuff and be grateful for what you do have and then just start from there, because you're really started from the ground up. 00:14:07.539 --> 00:14:18.179 Well, and that's where I'm curious on how you took all of that and then went into your next thing, not just the intellectual part of it, which is okay. 00:14:18.179 --> 00:14:28.971 I'm going to do this specific business and business type next and I'm going to structure it maybe a little bit differently, but the willingness to get back into it again after a defeat. 00:14:28.971 --> 00:14:31.523 So how did you, what did you decide to do? 00:14:31.523 --> 00:14:34.912 And then how did you go about activating? 00:14:34.971 --> 00:14:35.131 on it. 00:14:35.131 --> 00:14:41.072 Well, first of all, I had to come to terms with who I was as a person, who I was as a leader. 00:14:41.980 --> 00:14:44.206 You know, and at this point you know I was. 00:14:44.206 --> 00:14:47.664 I wasn't a young chicken, but I wasn't old either. 00:14:47.664 --> 00:15:02.648 You know, I was kind of like in the middle and I I think it was a real pivotal time to be like you know who am I and what am I and what do I want to stand for, and you know how do I go forward the next time I'm building a business and culture and thoughts and things like that. 00:15:02.648 --> 00:15:12.730 And at that time I saw one of my biggest strengths as one of my biggest weaknesses, and it took me a minute to really look at it and that's empathy. 00:15:12.730 --> 00:15:23.360 So when I, about that time, I was really hard on myself, like maybe I didn't lead right, maybe I wasn't hard enough on my people, maybe I wasn't pushing them hard enough, maybe I wasn't. 00:15:23.802 --> 00:15:34.708 Uh, I live out in, you know, san francisco bay area and during that time, steve jobs passed away and so he was being lionized in the media and you know about what a great god. 00:15:34.708 --> 00:15:48.249 But also, you know he was kind of a, you know, and I I didn't ever connect with that, you know, and I've never connected with the, the um being an app or being a jerk to my employees Right, like I. 00:15:48.249 --> 00:16:08.740 Just that's not the way I led, but I always felt like that was a weakness, like I needed to do it, and so when I realized that my greatest strength was my empathy and I just needed to, you know, lean into that and lead by that and be, you know, like that's who I am and that's how I'm going to build my businesses, is just being empathetic with my customers, being empathetic with my employees. 00:16:08.740 --> 00:16:12.255 You know, being empathetic to just about any situation. 00:16:12.255 --> 00:16:21.942 You get it, understanding where people are coming from and not running away from it and not seeing it as a like, kindness, as a weakness, right you? 00:16:21.981 --> 00:16:33.770 know, I think there's a temptation to look at somebody who's been successful and try to emulate them and how they lead, and obviously there are significant benefits to doing that. 00:16:33.770 --> 00:16:48.248 But when it's not true to who you are in an area like that, it can create all sorts of doubt and you're not actually being true to yourself. 00:16:48.489 --> 00:17:02.985 And then you show up kind of weird to others, maybe because they're like no, you're actually a pretty empathetic person and you're trying to be really firm and aggressive and it doesn't feel right somehow, and then it impacts other people, and then that impacts the business. 00:17:02.985 --> 00:17:03.947 So what did you do? 00:17:05.234 --> 00:17:15.045 Yeah, I mean that it's interesting because during that I keep talking about this moment of clarity, it was just a lot of thoughts going through my head of like where I've gotten, where I'm at and where I came from. 00:17:15.045 --> 00:17:20.411 I grew up in Eastern Washington in an area and the worst thing you could be where you're from was a poser. 00:17:20.411 --> 00:17:23.954 You know, like it was just very authentic place, like everybody was very-. 00:17:23.994 --> 00:17:30.980 That's classic late 80s language that doesn't get used enough anymore classic late 80s language that doesn't get used enough anymore. 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:31.986 No, no, I mean, really it was what it was like. 00:17:31.986 --> 00:17:33.593 I grew up in the 90s in washington state, the pacific northwest, you know. 00:17:33.593 --> 00:17:46.237 It was all about flannels and boots and you know, being authentic, who you're, who you are right, it wasn't about hair and makeup, like we were past that you know, and so I had to get back and adapt to who that you know. 00:17:46.237 --> 00:17:48.663 Not adapt, but just remember who I was right. 00:17:48.824 --> 00:17:56.387 You know and you know and being authentic is really at the core of just how people perceive you or understand you is. 00:17:56.387 --> 00:17:57.378 They know what they're going to get. 00:17:57.378 --> 00:17:59.247 They know you know that you're. 00:17:59.247 --> 00:18:01.174 You're just not a poser, right? 00:18:01.174 --> 00:18:26.356 And I just felt like that wasn't me of being a jerk, you know, and pounding on people, and it was more about uplifting, teaching, understanding, meeting people where they're at, trying to understand that we all have our challenges outside of business, and then we're in a very stressful industry, especially freight brokerage, and your mental health doesn't just turn on and turn off when you leave the office. 00:18:26.356 --> 00:18:27.798 It's a through line. 00:18:27.798 --> 00:18:35.950 So I just wanted to be more empathetic amongst all that and try to do this the second time around. 00:18:36.131 --> 00:18:38.678 A lot different, right so how did it turn out? 00:18:38.678 --> 00:18:40.561 How did the second venture go? 00:18:41.144 --> 00:18:43.608 so, again, this was taking a lot of stuff. 00:18:43.608 --> 00:18:44.295 I didn't know. 00:18:44.295 --> 00:18:47.638 You know, I wish I knew previously and we started working as. 00:18:47.638 --> 00:18:49.221 So we came back as an agent. 00:18:49.862 --> 00:18:52.184 So at this time I had met Global Trans. 00:18:52.184 --> 00:19:03.980 I'd met Mike and I'm just keeping my name but Andrew Mike and Andrew led over Global Trans. 00:19:03.980 --> 00:19:08.377 They had just started Global Trans, they were trying to figure out how to scale it and what they were doing, and I was looking for an LTL platform because my next iteration. 00:19:08.377 --> 00:19:16.482 I wanted to make sure I was very diversified, what I offered my customers and modes in terms of modes, so then I could develop a more diversified customer base. 00:19:16.482 --> 00:19:23.162 So we started, um, you know, getting ltl customers, you know bring it in and you know turning it into ltl and whatnot. 00:19:23.162 --> 00:19:35.846 But, um, you know, getting a chance to kind of come back as an agent took a lot of the pressure off financially, not having to do a lot of the stuff around it, and it kind of opened my eyes like, wow, this is kind of a better way of doing it. 00:19:35.846 --> 00:19:38.353 It allows you to focus on selling and brokering. 00:19:39.459 --> 00:19:40.261 Can you unpack that? 00:19:40.261 --> 00:20:02.597 Some more understand not through any fault of their own, it's not a knock that the freight agent model is fundamentally different than a full standalone entity that doesn't have the support of what an agent program does. 00:20:02.597 --> 00:20:06.928 One's more of a franchise, one's more of a standalone entity. 00:20:06.928 --> 00:20:14.079 Can you just, in 60 seconds or less, explain what the agent model is and why it's super helpful for some folks. 00:20:15.102 --> 00:20:15.963 It's very simple. 00:20:15.963 --> 00:20:16.846 It takes a lot. 00:20:16.846 --> 00:20:26.415 So, as a freight broker or building a freight brokerage, you have a lot of different hats right and you've got to wear a lot of different ones in a lot of areas in which you're not familiar with finance. 00:20:26.415 --> 00:20:29.590 I don't know a lot of stuff, but basically the agency model takes a lot of areas in which you're not familiar with, uh, finance. 00:20:29.590 --> 00:20:39.710 You know, I don't know a lot of stuff because mine but basically the agency model takes a lot of that stuff off your plate and allows you to focus just more on customers selling that type of stuff. 00:20:39.710 --> 00:20:40.934 So you don't have to worry about billing. 00:20:40.934 --> 00:20:42.598 You don't have to worry about claims. 00:20:42.598 --> 00:20:47.244 You don't not that claims don't come up but you're not having to build out a claims you have help with it? 00:20:47.265 --> 00:21:16.873 yeah, you know, and that's what I found Like I was having to build out all these non-revenue producing you know positions that were needed within a freight brokerage, but we're, you know, not producing profits, right, like so that you know what I mean Like they're not salespeople, they're not just profit, and even back then I'd hire people just for paperwork, right, and that type of stuff weighs you down when you're independent and you've got to have a lot of money to pay out. 00:21:16.873 --> 00:21:17.535 Get started. 00:21:18.115 --> 00:21:33.063 Get started to pay out on carriers and collect from customers, because not all shippers pay in 30 days but all carriers need to be paid in 30 days, and so that can create a big schism that you've got to be able to kind of navigate while you're doing all these different things. 00:21:33.063 --> 00:21:34.480 So it's very intensive. 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.183 Now on the agent side, you take a lot of that off your plate. 00:21:37.183 --> 00:21:44.561 You don't need to worry about claims, you don't need to worry about AR, you don't hire any of those people you know in some great agencies. 00:21:44.561 --> 00:21:50.990 You get some camaraderie and ability to get out of your silo and talk to other agents and see what they're doing. 00:21:50.990 --> 00:21:55.518 You're kind of on the same team in some respects. 00:21:55.518 --> 00:22:03.409 So yeah, there's really two fundamental different ways to do it, and I think it's getting harder and harder to do it as an independent agent. 00:22:03.449 --> 00:22:04.549 Truly independent sure. 00:22:06.056 --> 00:22:06.557 Yeah, truly independent. 00:22:06.557 --> 00:22:08.263 I started in 2006. 00:22:08.263 --> 00:22:10.122 I literally started by Googling. 00:22:10.122 --> 00:22:17.325 I mean, I had worked in freight brokerages but I didn't know how they worked, so I was really having to Google a lot of stuff. 00:22:17.325 --> 00:22:25.964 Now you got a lot more information and there's a lot more opportunities to get in the business, a lot with less risk. 00:22:26.384 --> 00:22:39.583 you know more upside, but you also are able to tap into your own strengths If they're relationship building, if it's growing sales and that your strengths aren't accounting. 00:22:39.583 --> 00:22:44.768 You know the agent model is a great way to go about it. 00:22:44.768 --> 00:22:59.436 If you feel really good at administrative work and you can do sales and business development on your own, then doing something independent is going to be maybe more successful or not more successful, just going to be. 00:22:59.436 --> 00:23:02.717 You'll be more successful than folks who don't have those skillsets. 00:23:02.717 --> 00:23:08.679 So it's kind of back to what you were saying about knowing who you really are and being true to what makes you you. 00:23:08.679 --> 00:23:14.207 So you ended up having a far different kind of success under the agent model. 00:23:14.207 --> 00:23:14.969 How did that one end? 00:23:15.869 --> 00:23:16.130 Yeah. 00:23:16.130 --> 00:23:28.825 So again, like kind of in that it allowed us to focus on what we were good at, you know, and allowed me to focus money and you know stuff towards things that were going to grow the business and not, you know, be non-revenue producing. 00:23:28.825 --> 00:23:30.260 So we scaled faster. 00:23:30.260 --> 00:23:33.163 We were much more aware of who we were as a company too. 00:23:33.163 --> 00:23:35.703 We focused on small to medium-sized businesses. 00:23:35.703 --> 00:23:37.541 I was no longer in the enterprise world. 00:23:37.541 --> 00:23:39.201 I didn't like the enterprise world anymore. 00:23:39.201 --> 00:23:43.153 It's just we could get into private equity and all that kind of stuff. 00:23:43.153 --> 00:23:44.894 But it's really the same type of mentality. 00:23:44.894 --> 00:23:48.305 There's not a lot of relationships that withstand it. 00:23:48.305 --> 00:24:05.799 But in the small to medium size you become more of a coach, consultant, you know, with these new businesses that don't necessarily know how to ship their products efficiently, right, and I mean it's the last thing they think about really when they, when they're starting a business, you know they're, they're excited about producing what their widgets, you know, whatever it is, it's not like. 00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:08.702 Well then, how do I get it from point A to point B? 00:24:08.702 --> 00:24:19.057 So we enjoyed kind of getting in and growing with companies, and so we had a lot of success with that One of them in particular. 00:24:19.076 --> 00:24:28.164 We got the beverage industry and it had a couple of success stories there with, like Lagunita Spear we were one of their first carriers and a company called Hint Water. 00:24:28.164 --> 00:24:33.017 Basically they were just doing one or two pallets. 00:24:33.017 --> 00:24:35.142 You know, a week we taught them how to. 00:24:35.142 --> 00:24:49.107 You know how ltl worked, and then they grew over time and we were doing you know 20 truckloads a day when I left and we kind of took them on that, that journey, you know, and helped them along that way and it strengthened our relationships right. 00:24:49.107 --> 00:25:04.787 So you know, when Uber and CH and all these people discovered Hint got big enough and they all discovered Hint, you know we were already three, four, five years knee deep with them, you know, in a relationship that's taken them from you know small aspects to here. 00:25:04.787 --> 00:25:06.780 So they weren't willing to part with us. 00:25:06.780 --> 00:25:10.057 So it made us a little bit more sticky, yeah, and we. 00:25:10.196 --> 00:25:17.019 So those were the type of relationships we were building in that, in that um and at tactic, at that agency, um, and so it was. 00:25:17.019 --> 00:25:20.347 So the company's name was tactic logistics group and tactic. 00:25:20.347 --> 00:25:29.702 I have a little bit of german ancestry and so, uh, it's the german word for strategy, what's like, oh, cool, yeah, and I, because I was trying to strategize at the time. 00:25:29.702 --> 00:25:36.990 I was going down with the ship, starting a new company and trying to keep my ass out of jail. 00:25:36.990 --> 00:25:45.396 I didn't want to do anything illegal at that point because I was mixing a lot of relationships and pulling them over here and whatnot. 00:25:45.396 --> 00:25:57.442 So as we built Tactic, we just built it under those relationships, you know, and we were able to scale it in the agent model a lot quicker with that direct, intentional, you know prospect. 00:25:57.442 --> 00:25:59.386 You know just the way we were doing it Focus yeah. 00:25:59.674 --> 00:26:00.396 Focus right. 00:26:00.396 --> 00:26:02.083 Yeah, we're way much more focused. 00:26:02.083 --> 00:26:06.219 You know, that's kind of it's different than being, you know, all in bed with one customer. 00:26:06.219 --> 00:26:09.663 It's just being focused on what your strategy is and then, you know, sticking to it. 00:26:09.663 --> 00:26:18.124 And so we became very diverse and a lot more efficient, and so I grew to that business at about 25 million in five, six years. 00:26:18.124 --> 00:26:22.678 And so, yeah, I mean it was it was hard to sell it. 00:26:23.118 --> 00:26:25.826 Yeah, and then I sold it to Global Trans in 2021. 00:26:25.826 --> 00:26:38.884 So, you know, because it was a good business right, Like when I was running around trying to sell my other business, when I was, you know, going down, I realized how it was a bad business, fundamentally because I couldn't find anybody to buy me. 00:26:38.884 --> 00:26:45.599 You know, when I got in trouble and so I second time around, I was like I want to build a good business because when I exit, it's going to make it that much easier. 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:52.748 So, and that's exactly what happened, you know it was it's going to make it that much easier, and that's exactly what happened. 00:26:52.828 --> 00:26:54.295 It was just a good fundamental business. 00:26:54.295 --> 00:26:55.655 So how does that then, when you go into Diablo? 00:26:55.655 --> 00:27:06.228 Now and you have had a successful exit and you don't have the pressure and the stress of if this doesn't all go well, I can't feed my family. 00:27:06.228 --> 00:27:10.316 Now you've got a different kind of financial security that you're starting from. 00:27:10.316 --> 00:27:29.097 Do you find yourself showing up um from a position of confidence or stability, somehow different, that, like your personal finances, are taken care of so you can make different kinds of decisions in the third go-round? 00:27:29.818 --> 00:27:35.443 You bet Absolutely Especially for someone who's bootstrapped everyone in my companies right Like. 00:27:35.443 --> 00:27:41.068 This was what I'm playing with house money you know, at this point right. 00:27:41.689 --> 00:28:02.573 And so you know and that was the thing with starting the second business I had 15 grand left and my wife and I had to have these conversations where, like, do we take this 15 grand and move closer to family, get out of the Bay Area, go get a corporate job, or do we roll it back in and just go for it again? 00:28:02.573 --> 00:28:03.896 And she got behind me and said let's do it. 00:28:03.896 --> 00:28:07.953 I got faith in you and we literally went week to week, month to month. 00:28:07.953 --> 00:28:09.557 I mean, we were the last to get paid. 00:28:09.557 --> 00:28:18.576 I brought my top three guys over, never did cut their salaries, kept them on everything same bonus programs, all that type of stuff, but we were the last to get paid. 00:28:18.576 --> 00:28:22.099 So it sucked going down and it sucked going up, right. 00:28:22.099 --> 00:28:25.439 And so we got to a certain point where we crossed the threshold. 00:28:25.439 --> 00:28:26.101 We were clear. 00:28:26.101 --> 00:28:31.364 Plus, we were living personally under the thumb of a trustee, because we went personally bankrupt too during that time. 00:28:31.606 --> 00:28:33.510 Got it, the company went down, took us down. 00:28:34.211 --> 00:28:57.103 So what I'm getting at was when we finally, when I sold the business, we had an exit of bankruptcy, our deck was cleared and I had cash Right and I promised I would never go back to the way I did business before, where I was chasing other people's money Right, trying to build my business, and there is a distinct difference between using your money and somebody else's money. 00:28:57.103 --> 00:29:06.407 When you're building the business, I think you're more thoughtful about the moves you make and you're just kind of. 00:29:06.407 --> 00:29:12.713 There's just a different feeling about it. 00:29:12.713 --> 00:29:13.376 But it's a freedom, right. 00:29:13.376 --> 00:29:26.480 And so this is where I wanted to be in a position to be able to make bets and do things, based on my information that I've gathered over 10 or 15 years and being in the industry well, 25 years at this point, but at that point it was 20 something years and so it's a different mindset, a lot more fun. 00:29:29.430 --> 00:29:31.759 Winning is generally more fun than losing. 00:29:32.130 --> 00:29:32.932 Yeah, right, right. 00:29:32.932 --> 00:29:46.396 So but it's you know I also relate, you know, I understand, you know when you're building a business and that struggle, especially when you don't have money or you don't come from money you know it's trying to cross that Rubicon of being able to be like gosh. 00:29:46.477 --> 00:30:04.075 okay, I got money, now that I can now invest in myself and move forward uh, cinderella story, where what people do, storytelling one-on-one for just a quick second, the the Cinderella story? 00:30:04.075 --> 00:30:05.746 Everybody thinks that it's. 00:30:05.746 --> 00:30:08.920 You know, she had a terrible life and then it ended with Prince charming. 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:10.696 That's not the Cinderella story. 00:30:10.696 --> 00:30:19.698 The Cinderella story was um, she had a great life and then they don't explain why, but her mom died or left or something. 00:30:19.698 --> 00:30:20.451 You know the. 00:30:20.451 --> 00:30:27.884 Her dad was alone and then got remarried and the stepmother was wicked and that was the decline. 00:30:28.632 --> 00:30:41.324 Right before that, things were pretty good yeah so that that storytelling you know structure is like there was a rise and then there was a fall, and that's where the story starts and then it ends with a rise back to they lived happily ever after. 00:30:41.324 --> 00:31:03.201 What I have found in the hundreds and hundreds of people that I've interviewed and talked to about their stories, the ones who understand or who have experienced that pattern like you you had the rise with business number one and then it crashed, and then you, in your second business, had the happily ever after. 00:31:03.201 --> 00:31:22.525 You appreciate things differently than somebody who's never had failure or somebody who's never who's only ever had up and to the right, and they develop hubris, overconfidence, and then their fall is coming, not always, but sometimes you bet, it's usually always. 00:31:30.250 --> 00:31:35.325 It's usually just around the corner, and so I think we're so drawn to stories that remind us of those things, and yours is one of those. 00:31:35.325 --> 00:31:48.338 But you also shared with me before we started recording that sometimes you still have this imposter syndrome that creeps up, and is that maybe a fear that you might lose it all again someday, or that it might've been a your success? 00:31:48.338 --> 00:31:50.695 The second time might've been a fluke, like, how do you? 00:31:50.695 --> 00:32:04.561 Because from the outside I would hear what you've been through and think you should have tons of confidence, but a healthy confidence that you can survive anything, you know, come what may, because you already have once. 00:32:04.561 --> 00:32:06.416 So unpack that for me. 00:32:07.190 --> 00:32:08.354 Yeah, it's kind of some of both. 00:32:08.354 --> 00:32:14.461 Really, to be honest with you, I tell anybody now that sells their business to get a therapist as well. 00:32:15.573 --> 00:32:26.420 I mean you need an attorney, you need you know an accountant, you know tax people, and then you need a therapist, because there is a lot of mind messing around going on when that happens. 00:32:26.420 --> 00:32:31.135 And I've talked to a lot of other people that have done it too and they feel the same way. 00:32:31.135 --> 00:32:32.199 And it doesn't matter how big. 00:32:32.199 --> 00:32:35.173 It is right, it could be a billion dollar company, it could be a small. 00:32:35.173 --> 00:32:47.329 It's something that you know, you kind of tie yourself to, and then you have to kind of it's a journey, you're on Right and and then you kind of get to the end of it and you look back on you're like, wow, I dodged this, I dodged that, I did that. 00:32:47.711 --> 00:32:56.180 But yeah, I mean, it was very conflicting for me because you would think that right, like you would be in this position where I should have the most supreme confidence in myself at that point. 00:32:56.180 --> 00:33:07.319 And not that I didn't, you know, I do have, you know, a lot of confidence in myself because I do know that I can handle anything that's thrown at me and I have the strength of resilience, this, this muscle I've built up over time. 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:21.484 Um, but it's sitting in that moments of like you know, how did it happen for me, you know, and it didn't happen for x, y, z or you know, just kind of like did I get lucky? 00:33:21.484 --> 00:33:22.566 It was this. 00:33:22.891 --> 00:33:42.737 you know all these things and some of that is true, right like it plays a role, for sure it plays timing, you know I mean, but I believe you create your own luck and you know, you take advantage of your opportunities, and I think that was the biggest thing for me is and even now, I don't squander, I don't take opportunities lightly. 00:33:42.737 --> 00:33:54.284 You know, I try to identify them and then make the most of them, and whether they're ones that have fallen in my lap or ones that I've created for myself, it doesn't matter. 00:33:54.730 --> 00:34:01.038 They're all treated the same, and so I just kind of who are you now dangerous question? 00:34:01.570 --> 00:34:07.002 yeah, no, it's kind of, you know, I'm very confident, obviously, but I'm also humble, right, like you know. 00:34:07.002 --> 00:34:22.635 Getting back to the fact that, like it can happen to anybody, right, business is an imperfect science, it's a sport, it's, it's a way you know the ball, you know the ball can bounce different ways and you've got to be able to you, you know, kind of go with it Right and and be able to learn. 00:34:22.635 --> 00:34:26.880 And so I'm doing all that stuff, you know, and I'm still kind of figuring that out. 00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:28.534 But you know, I was in a. 00:34:29.014 --> 00:34:37.012 I got interviewed by entrepreneur magazine shortly after I was kind of coming back and you know I was telling him about that, my first business. 00:34:37.012 --> 00:34:38.014 I had a success. 00:34:38.014 --> 00:34:43.556 Especially, it was going through 2008, 2009, when every other business around you was crumbling. 00:34:43.556 --> 00:34:45.137 I was having success. 00:34:45.137 --> 00:34:47.539 Everything I touched turned to gold. 00:34:47.539 --> 00:34:51.161 I was like, wow, this is easy. 00:34:51.161 --> 00:34:55.023 This whole entrepreneur thing. 00:34:55.023 --> 00:34:57.266 Like there is another side, there's. 00:34:57.266 --> 00:34:58.867 You know you're going to get hit. 00:34:59.507 --> 00:35:10.112 If you kind of stay in that mindset and that's kind of what happened is I just, you know, even though I saw it, kind of saw it coming, it knocks you off your feet in how you respond to it and a lot of times. 00:35:10.112 --> 00:35:11.498 People have never had that before. 00:35:11.498 --> 00:35:15.621 They've never been through a time where they've had to be resilient and they crumble. 00:35:15.621 --> 00:35:21.237 I was fortunate that I kind of had built some coping mechanisms to be resilient and they crumble. 00:35:21.237 --> 00:35:23.244 I was fortunate that I kind of had built some coping mechanisms to be able to bounce back. 00:35:23.264 --> 00:35:25.731 But it's important to understand that you can't get too full yourself. 00:35:25.731 --> 00:35:29.461 No matter how much success you've had, you've always got to stay learning. 00:35:29.461 --> 00:35:33.900 You've always got to stay, you know, continue to be uncomfortable. 00:35:33.900 --> 00:35:35.242 Comfortable being uncomfortable. 00:35:35.242 --> 00:35:39.039 You know I talked to my daughters a lot about this right now, where it's like, you know, I got kind of a real comfortable life. 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:42.382 You know I talk to my daughters a lot about this right now, where it's like, you know, I got kind of a real comfortable life, you know. 00:35:42.382 --> 00:35:48.512 So we have to, you know, find some places where they're uncomfortable sometimes, so we learn some things right and that's good, you know. 00:35:48.572 --> 00:35:50.998 It's because comfort, comfort and growth don't go hand in hand. 00:35:50.998 --> 00:35:52.451 Very often they don't don't? 00:35:52.532 --> 00:35:54.358 I mean, that's that's another challenge, right? 00:35:54.358 --> 00:35:59.297 You know, when you do have some comfort now, then how do you keep that fire burning? 00:35:59.297 --> 00:36:05.269 And, um, how do you, you know, keep it going and not just kick your feet up, like I was talking about earlier? 00:36:05.269 --> 00:36:08.161 Um, because I just I'm, I'm a firm believer. 00:36:08.161 --> 00:36:09.304 You got to be on your toes. 00:36:09.304 --> 00:36:15.311 I mean, I've been playing sports, I'm always in the balls of my feet, you're moving forward, being ready to react to what comes your way. 00:36:15.311 --> 00:36:17.135 Um, and then get back up. 00:36:17.135 --> 00:36:19.952 You know, you, you get knocked down, you're going to get blindsided. 00:36:19.952 --> 00:36:28.079 But yeah, it's just one of those deals where you just have to be real with yourself and understand that you don't know it all and you always got to keep learning. 00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:37.773 And the more you learn and the more you get up from challenges, that creates a resiliency that does give you confidence that there's virtually not much that could. 00:36:37.773 --> 00:36:44.105 I can't think of much that could probably come my way that I couldn't handle, because now I have the structures in place to be able to process it. 00:36:45.391 --> 00:36:48.840 Well, your story is one that I love sharing. 00:36:49.541 --> 00:36:50.302 Well, I appreciate that. 00:36:51.652 --> 00:36:59.784 I hope somebody else is listening to this who is in the middle of their storm, whatever it is, and recognizes that this too shall pass. 00:36:59.784 --> 00:37:02.695 Now you can't just hope that it's going to pass. 00:37:02.695 --> 00:37:03.458 You got to act. 00:37:03.458 --> 00:37:05.931 You have to make good choices, you have to do all the things. 00:37:05.931 --> 00:37:10.702 If it doesn't turn out and things fail, there's hope after that also. 00:37:11.289 --> 00:37:13.197 You bet there's actually bigger hope. 00:37:13.197 --> 00:37:14.322 You know what I mean. 00:37:14.322 --> 00:37:16.811 I feel like some people get spoiled by less. 00:37:16.811 --> 00:37:21.262 They don't have any failure right, so they they kind of plateau the. 00:37:21.262 --> 00:37:25.632 The only way to get through greatness is only established through adversity. 00:37:25.632 --> 00:37:38.594 You know, and I've never met a successful person that has not experienced some sort of adversity and in order to be successful, it's just something you have to go through well, well said. 00:37:38.614 --> 00:37:40.099 Yeah, it'll come your way. 00:37:40.099 --> 00:37:47.371 But you know, at the same time you stick through it, it does get better on the other side. 00:37:47.371 --> 00:37:48.612 You know, I was just thinking about this the other day. 00:37:48.612 --> 00:37:52.534 Sometimes I put myself in those moments of where I was the most stressed. 00:37:52.534 --> 00:38:02.942 You know, and you know, I was laying on the floor of my office like can't breathe and thinking like I'm here now and I would never have seen myself here now in that moment. 00:38:02.942 --> 00:38:05.724 So you just got to get up and you just got to keep fighting. 00:38:06.403 --> 00:38:10.067 I wonder if this is the entrepreneurial version of you. 00:38:10.067 --> 00:38:17.701 Know what your grandparents would say you think you've got it rough, like we had to walk uphill to school both ways, you know through the snow with my brother on my back. 00:38:17.701 --> 00:38:23.134 Backward, yeah, to school both ways, you know through the snow, with my brother on my back. 00:38:23.134 --> 00:38:33.579 But there is some universal guidance in all of that, and so thanks for the vulnerability of just like opening up and saying, hey, here's the good, the bad and the ugly of what I've been through. 00:38:33.579 --> 00:38:39.429 Regardless of what those circumstances are, you can find success professionally. 00:38:39.429 --> 00:38:42.739 It can help develop and grow you individually. 00:38:42.778 --> 00:38:43.641 You mentioned your daughters. 00:38:43.641 --> 00:38:59.798 I know how big of a role they play in your life and how you want to model certain things for them and the values that you show up with in your work life and then in your home life too, because entrepreneurship isn't just a day job, it's just not something that happens eight hours a day. 00:38:59.798 --> 00:39:02.311 It's a whole family, it's all. 00:39:02.311 --> 00:39:11.335 Yeah, it's an encompassing experience and whatever happens next in your experience, tyson, thank you for well one. 00:39:11.335 --> 00:39:12.478 We wish you very, very well. 00:39:12.478 --> 00:39:21.039 I want to keep our conversation going for a long time because I learn something new every time we talk and as I share every time we talk, and as I share every time we're all rooting for you. 00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:31.552 I appreciate that, nate, and likewise I appreciate you creating this platform, you know, for people to learn from and and be on and, you know, share their stories. 00:39:31.552 --> 00:39:32.213 So I think it's really important. 00:39:32.213 --> 00:39:34.637 You know, when I was going through those difficult times, I was reaching out to find similar stories. 00:39:34.637 --> 00:39:39.224 You know, just to kind of be like okay, like if he can get through it, I can get through it. 00:39:39.224 --> 00:39:46.179 So if I can be that for somebody and you can be that platform, you know, that's great and I just appreciate it and thank you again for having me on. 00:39:46.789 --> 00:39:49.860 Of course, if somebody wants to reach out to you, where's the best place to find you? 00:39:50.849 --> 00:39:51.771 LinkedIn's the best place. 00:39:51.771 --> 00:39:55.494 So just look at Tyson Lawrence and LinkedIn. 00:39:55.494 --> 00:39:59.639 Or, you know, shoot me an email, t Lawrence at Diablo freightcom. 00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:02.121 You can go to our website, diablo freightcom. 00:40:02.121 --> 00:40:05.605 My marketing people put me all over it so you'll see. 00:40:06.806 --> 00:40:14.152 Right on so if they can't, if somebody can't find you, then you got to have a tough conversation with somebody in marketing Right on. 00:40:14.152 --> 00:40:15.373 Okay, thank you, tyson, take care. 00:40:15.373 --> 00:40:16.253 Thanks, nate. 00:40:16.253 --> 00:40:27.139 Thanks for listening to another episode of the Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics, and a special thank you to our sponsors and the team behind the scenes who make it all possible. 00:40:27.139 --> 00:40:31.422 Be sure to like, follow or subscribe to the podcast to get the latest updates. 00:40:31.422 --> 00:40:37.907 To learn more about the show and connect with the growing community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounderscom. 00:40:37.907 --> 00:40:46.132 And, of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to share their stories.