1 00:00:33,262 --> 00:00:35,267 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to 2 00:00:35,307 --> 00:00:37,932 Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it 3 00:00:37,951 --> 00:00:39,634 the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 4 00:00:39,634 --> 00:00:42,567 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and 5 00:00:42,606 --> 00:00:44,070 inspiring others to take the leap. 6 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,728 Speaker 2: It's a roller coaster ride that you might ultimately 7 00:00:47,748 --> 00:00:47,989 fail. 8 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,567 Speaker 1: That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 9 00:00:51,281 --> 00:00:52,146 Speaker 2: It was very hard. 10 00:00:52,146 --> 00:00:54,567 It truly is building a legacy. 11 00:00:54,567 --> 00:00:57,789 The more life you live, the more wisdom you have. 12 00:00:58,340 --> 00:01:00,606 Speaker 1: Because we are where we're supposed to be kind of 13 00:01:00,748 --> 00:01:01,751 answering the call. 14 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,709 Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 15 00:01:04,709 --> 00:01:06,634 I'm your host, nate Schutz. 16 00:01:06,634 --> 00:01:09,700 Let's build something together from the ground up. 17 00:01:09,700 --> 00:01:14,325 Hello everybody, and welcome back to the show. 18 00:01:14,325 --> 00:01:17,048 We are deep into summer 2025. 19 00:01:17,048 --> 00:01:22,212 We have shared, I think, close to 20 founder stories so far 20 00:01:22,252 --> 00:01:26,716 this year well over 100 now since the beginning of the show, 21 00:01:26,716 --> 00:01:33,066 which still blows my mind when I stop finding interesting 22 00:01:33,105 --> 00:01:36,150 people to talk to and people that have interesting stories, 23 00:01:36,251 --> 00:01:38,694 and I don't think we're going to run out of those anytime soon. 24 00:01:39,161 --> 00:01:42,489 This week we've got Matt Hertz, who's the CEO and founder of 25 00:01:42,609 --> 00:01:43,311 Third Person. 26 00:01:43,311 --> 00:01:46,587 Matt has a how can I say? 27 00:01:46,587 --> 00:01:50,438 Maybe one of the most diverse backgrounds of somebody in 28 00:01:50,478 --> 00:01:50,859 logistics. 29 00:01:50,859 --> 00:01:56,628 He has worked in cable TV, he's worked on hedge fund stuff. 30 00:01:56,628 --> 00:02:01,162 Per his resume, he has been on the brand side multiple times, 31 00:02:01,201 --> 00:02:05,631 he's an advisor to startups and he also has his own startup. 32 00:02:05,631 --> 00:02:10,131 So with that somewhat lengthy intro, matt, there's parts of 33 00:02:10,171 --> 00:02:13,221 your story I definitely want to dig into more than others. 34 00:02:13,221 --> 00:02:18,337 But my first question right off the bat is how did, how have 35 00:02:18,397 --> 00:02:24,228 you managed to spread such a wide net in your career of 36 00:02:24,367 --> 00:02:24,788 interests? 37 00:02:26,131 --> 00:02:28,213 Speaker 2: Yeah, they, nate. 38 00:02:28,213 --> 00:02:31,787 I you know when you said that I had experience in cable TV, I 39 00:02:31,807 --> 00:02:33,471 was like really, is that right? 40 00:02:33,471 --> 00:02:34,552 Where do you see that? 41 00:02:34,552 --> 00:02:37,042 And then you know I had to jog my memory and I did have an 42 00:02:37,102 --> 00:02:43,947 internship at CNBC in gosh, maybe 2007, 2008, maybe 0 know, 43 00:02:44,087 --> 00:02:45,848 I was never good at school. 44 00:02:45,848 --> 00:03:02,080 I became good at school when I had to, but you know I wasn't 45 00:03:02,100 --> 00:03:03,703 the class clown but school was just really not for me, despite 46 00:03:03,723 --> 00:03:04,425 graduating from a good college. 47 00:03:04,425 --> 00:03:09,932 But the point is I sort of had to pursue opportunities that you 48 00:03:09,932 --> 00:03:14,326 know came to me right or that were directly of interest to me. 49 00:03:14,326 --> 00:03:16,632 And you know I joined CNBC. 50 00:03:16,711 --> 00:03:19,985 As I mentioned, I actually interned for Jim Cramer for 51 00:03:20,026 --> 00:03:24,183 those who are familiar with his show Mad Money because I was 52 00:03:24,204 --> 00:03:27,211 interested in the markets and finance and writing. 53 00:03:27,211 --> 00:03:30,110 I was the editor of our business school newspaper. 54 00:03:30,110 --> 00:03:35,925 So yeah, it's been a fun journey and hedge funds taught 55 00:03:35,944 --> 00:03:38,188 me a lot about that. 56 00:03:38,188 --> 00:03:42,765 Good things can go to zero real fast and there's applications 57 00:03:42,826 --> 00:03:46,060 of that to modern day business and startups and e-commerce. 58 00:03:46,060 --> 00:03:50,050 So it's been a fun journey and excited to dig into some of it 59 00:03:50,090 --> 00:03:50,852 with you today, nate. 60 00:03:53,245 --> 00:03:54,868 Speaker 1: Matt, I want to go right to your statement about 61 00:03:54,968 --> 00:03:56,032 not being good in school. 62 00:03:56,032 --> 00:03:57,582 Matt, I want to go right to your question then about not 63 00:03:57,622 --> 00:03:59,306 being, or your statement about not being good in school. 64 00:03:59,306 --> 00:04:01,371 You strike me as somebody who has intentional interests and a 65 00:04:01,390 --> 00:04:04,036 somewhat contrarian take on things. 66 00:04:04,036 --> 00:04:08,341 Was school not interesting to you, like you could do it, but 67 00:04:08,381 --> 00:04:12,168 you just didn't, it didn't capture your interest, or was it 68 00:04:12,168 --> 00:04:16,055 you were just rebellious or what? 69 00:04:16,055 --> 00:04:19,020 Because you're clearly successful, you've got a bunch 70 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,928 of things working in your favor, but maybe the school structure 71 00:04:22,968 --> 00:04:24,071 and system wasn't for you. 72 00:04:24,432 --> 00:04:26,162 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it was that I was certainly not 73 00:04:26,201 --> 00:04:30,108 rebellious, at least I was good at hiding any rebellion from my 74 00:04:30,148 --> 00:04:30,550 parents. 75 00:04:30,550 --> 00:04:37,784 But no, my teachers always loved me, right. 76 00:04:37,784 --> 00:04:40,766 I was, like you know, the the kid that the teachers love, but 77 00:04:40,787 --> 00:04:43,348 couldn't understand why I wasn't studious, right, like you know, 78 00:04:43,348 --> 00:04:46,090 when I went home I just wasn't doing my homework and didn't 79 00:04:46,110 --> 00:04:46,971 care to do my homework. 80 00:04:46,971 --> 00:04:50,192 But it was really good at math, you know I'm, you know I'm 81 00:04:50,213 --> 00:04:52,314 really good at mental math to you know, to this day. 82 00:04:52,314 --> 00:04:56,757 So, you know, I was always you know what's that expression Like 83 00:04:56,757 --> 00:04:58,865 , you know, very, very street smart, not book smart. 84 00:04:59,125 --> 00:05:01,942 And you know, as a result of that, I sort of had this 85 00:05:02,002 --> 00:05:04,769 epiphany, you know, I guess, sometime during high school and 86 00:05:04,790 --> 00:05:09,906 I said, like you know, I'm not going to be that 4.0 GPA, you 87 00:05:09,925 --> 00:05:11,968 know, get the scholarships and all that. 88 00:05:11,968 --> 00:05:14,052 So I sort of have to figure out my own journey. 89 00:05:14,052 --> 00:05:15,374 Like I knew where I wanted to be. 90 00:05:15,374 --> 00:05:18,437 I knew I wanted to get that good job out of college and be 91 00:05:18,497 --> 00:05:22,470 successful in my career, but I knew it wouldn't be. 92 00:05:22,470 --> 00:05:24,918 I didn't believe it would happen through, you know, 93 00:05:24,978 --> 00:05:25,901 academic achievement. 94 00:05:25,901 --> 00:05:29,473 It would have to be through, like, figuring out how to get 95 00:05:29,514 --> 00:05:34,247 there on a somewhat non-linear path or a non sort of structured 96 00:05:34,247 --> 00:05:34,648 path. 97 00:05:34,687 --> 00:05:37,120 So throughout the different internships that I had during 98 00:05:37,161 --> 00:05:40,168 college and, frankly, even in high school when I started my 99 00:05:40,389 --> 00:05:44,305 internship for a New York, you know everything sort of built on 100 00:05:44,305 --> 00:05:44,726 itself. 101 00:05:44,726 --> 00:05:46,922 And you know I've always been really good at networking and 102 00:05:46,961 --> 00:05:49,908 connecting with folks like yourself and that's always been 103 00:05:49,949 --> 00:05:50,932 a superpower for me. 104 00:05:50,932 --> 00:05:53,084 So it's been, you know I've been, I've been, I've been 105 00:05:53,103 --> 00:05:53,824 fortunate in the journey that I've. 106 00:05:53,824 --> 00:05:55,408 You know I've been fortunate in the journey that I've. 107 00:05:55,408 --> 00:05:57,774 You know that I see myself on today. 108 00:05:58,982 --> 00:06:01,644 Speaker 1: I also know when you were in high school that you had 109 00:06:01,644 --> 00:06:06,892 a business in the early days of the Internet and you were 110 00:06:07,093 --> 00:06:08,915 buying and selling baseball cards. 111 00:06:08,915 --> 00:06:16,382 Unpack that for me because I remember I'm about five or six 112 00:06:16,423 --> 00:06:19,305 years older than you, so I remember those really early days 113 00:06:19,305 --> 00:06:22,987 of the internet and when people were terrified to buy something 114 00:06:22,987 --> 00:06:24,750 on the internet because they thought their credit card was 115 00:06:24,769 --> 00:06:27,312 going to get ripped off. 116 00:06:27,312 --> 00:06:32,495 And yet you at age 14 or 15 were you already had a six 117 00:06:32,555 --> 00:06:33,536 figure business going. 118 00:06:34,057 --> 00:06:36,178 Speaker 2: You already had a six-figure business going. 119 00:06:36,178 --> 00:06:36,418 I did. 120 00:06:36,418 --> 00:06:42,810 Yeah, you know it's funny, nate , and I appreciate you pointing 121 00:06:42,850 --> 00:06:43,434 that out on my LinkedIn. 122 00:06:43,434 --> 00:06:53,963 I believe you know I haven't put together a resume in many 123 00:06:53,983 --> 00:06:54,225 years, gladly. 124 00:06:54,225 --> 00:06:55,290 But you know, when I was applying for jobs, you know, a 125 00:06:55,310 --> 00:06:56,394 little while back before starting my own business, the 126 00:06:56,415 --> 00:06:58,601 line on my resume that always provoked the most questions or 127 00:06:58,641 --> 00:07:02,730 intrigue was this you know, very small line at the bottom that 128 00:07:03,411 --> 00:07:08,947 referenced my 1999 to 2004 sports card and card with a D, 129 00:07:08,968 --> 00:07:12,915 not car, but sports card and collectible business. 130 00:07:12,915 --> 00:07:15,624 And I think I say on LinkedIn that I survived the first 131 00:07:15,663 --> 00:07:19,750 dot-com crash, which is sort of tug of cheek, but it's true. 132 00:07:19,750 --> 00:07:23,382 And to your point, nate, yeah, I started in Canada, where I was 133 00:07:23,382 --> 00:07:24,045 born and raised. 134 00:07:24,846 --> 00:07:27,492 Ebay wasn't even in Canada back in 99. 135 00:07:27,492 --> 00:07:31,370 Or if it was, it was like no one knew it because I wasn't 136 00:07:31,410 --> 00:07:32,855 selling on eBay. 137 00:07:32,855 --> 00:07:36,064 I was actually selling on Yahoo , had an auction site, yahoo 138 00:07:36,146 --> 00:07:37,088 Auctions in Canada. 139 00:07:37,088 --> 00:07:42,009 This was also before online payments like PayPal or Venmo or 140 00:07:42,009 --> 00:07:45,242 Zeller, you know, cash app, you know none of those were around, 141 00:07:45,242 --> 00:07:45,744 right. 142 00:07:45,744 --> 00:07:49,052 So you know I was buying and selling on Yahoo Auctions, 143 00:07:49,940 --> 00:07:53,374 literally paying, you know, sending cash in the mail or 144 00:07:53,473 --> 00:07:56,509 money orders, you know, Western Union money orders, personal 145 00:07:56,529 --> 00:07:58,742 checks, cash Union money orders, personal checks, cashier, like 146 00:07:58,882 --> 00:08:02,173 all that stuff, right, literally meeting people in person at you 147 00:08:02,173 --> 00:08:06,848 know the mall to like transact and yeah, it was fairly scrappy 148 00:08:06,889 --> 00:08:12,485 but I mean gosh, it taught me a lot about e-commerce and you 149 00:08:12,526 --> 00:08:16,834 know sort of you know buying and selling and transacting, right 150 00:08:16,874 --> 00:08:17,574 Like making money. 151 00:08:17,699 --> 00:08:21,314 And yes, I, you know, when I went home a few years ago, I 152 00:08:21,375 --> 00:08:25,228 still have these like carbon paper stacks of every 153 00:08:25,288 --> 00:08:27,925 transaction I made, you know I would keep a copy and then send 154 00:08:27,946 --> 00:08:32,363 the, you know, send a copy in the bubble mailer with the card 155 00:08:32,463 --> 00:08:33,067 that I sold. 156 00:08:33,067 --> 00:08:36,910 And you know, I started adding up you know a few of the stacks 157 00:08:36,940 --> 00:08:40,509 because I was bored one afternoon and, yeah, it was, it 158 00:08:40,548 --> 00:08:43,403 was, it was a healthy six figure business, you know, 25 years 159 00:08:43,442 --> 00:08:47,594 ago, as a, you know, teenager, a 13 or 14 year old. 160 00:08:47,594 --> 00:08:50,922 So, yeah, you know, I'm sure there were lessons back then 161 00:08:50,961 --> 00:08:55,069 that I still, you know, can, can still apply to you know running 162 00:08:55,069 --> 00:08:56,874 a business today, 25 years later. 163 00:08:58,100 --> 00:09:00,687 Speaker 1: Was there a baseball card or a piece of memorabilia 164 00:09:00,726 --> 00:09:02,432 that got away that you still remember? 165 00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:07,106 Speaker 2: You know, the worst part about being a millennial, 166 00:09:07,488 --> 00:09:13,326 being a kid of the 80s in the sports card industry is that it 167 00:09:13,346 --> 00:09:19,864 was known as the junk wax era of cards, and what that means was 168 00:09:19,904 --> 00:09:21,149 that it was just. 169 00:09:21,149 --> 00:09:24,028 There was so much overproduction in sports cards 170 00:09:24,068 --> 00:09:27,162 back then, so none of them are worth anything, or there's very 171 00:09:27,241 --> 00:09:28,607 few that are actually worth something. 172 00:09:28,607 --> 00:09:32,522 Obviously, the Michael Jordan rookie card, you know the Wayne 173 00:09:32,542 --> 00:09:34,565 Gretzky rookie card kind of the best of the best. 174 00:09:34,565 --> 00:09:38,130 But, man, I wish I was born in the fifties and was collecting 175 00:09:38,191 --> 00:09:40,037 Mickey Mantle cards, and it was. 176 00:09:40,037 --> 00:09:42,784 I still have literally tens of thousands of cards back in my 177 00:09:42,825 --> 00:09:45,700 childhood home which my parents every day are trying to get me 178 00:09:45,740 --> 00:09:49,624 to get out of their house, pick it up and ship it. 179 00:09:49,663 --> 00:09:54,388 So, um man, I wish it was, you know, mantles and and, uh, uh 180 00:09:54,668 --> 00:09:56,009 and actually valuable stuff. 181 00:09:56,009 --> 00:09:59,513 But yeah, no, it was just a ton of fun and you know, as I said, 182 00:09:59,513 --> 00:10:02,034 it taught me a lot about buying and selling, kind of the early 183 00:10:02,075 --> 00:10:04,017 days of e-commerce. 184 00:10:08,519 --> 00:10:09,322 Speaker 1: And it was also something that you had a 185 00:10:09,341 --> 00:10:09,763 personal interest in. 186 00:10:09,763 --> 00:10:10,063 It sounds like. 187 00:10:10,063 --> 00:10:11,769 I mean, I remember we had a baseball card shop four or five 188 00:10:11,808 --> 00:10:16,448 blocks from my house and they had the cards behind glass and 189 00:10:16,470 --> 00:10:18,583 then you had all the packs that you could buy and there was a 190 00:10:18,683 --> 00:10:22,541 wade boggs card that I didn't really like wade boggs, but for 191 00:10:22,660 --> 00:10:25,850 some reason this card just spoke to me every time I walked in 192 00:10:26,793 --> 00:10:31,546 and I never quite was able to have the self-control to save up 193 00:10:31,546 --> 00:10:33,028 and buy the card. 194 00:10:33,028 --> 00:10:35,431 I would always get 75 cents and I would go, you know, buy a 195 00:10:35,394 --> 00:10:37,162 pack and then the next week I'd spend, get 75 cents and I would 196 00:10:37,125 --> 00:10:39,000 go buy a pack and then the next week I'd spend another 75 cents, 197 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,070 and so I never saved the I think it was $12, if memory 198 00:10:42,110 --> 00:10:45,182 serves and so the Wade Boggs card got away. 199 00:10:48,467 --> 00:10:53,054 But there's a nostalgic part of that and a personal interest 200 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,350 that also, I'm sure, fueled some of the business interest part 201 00:10:57,390 --> 00:10:57,530 of it. 202 00:10:57,530 --> 00:11:00,989 And just figuring out, can I actually make money hustling and 203 00:11:00,989 --> 00:11:03,134 , you know, being scrappy with this? 204 00:11:03,134 --> 00:11:09,813 That is the fertile ground for an entrepreneur later in life, 205 00:11:09,833 --> 00:11:11,759 like a full-blown entrepreneur later in life. 206 00:11:11,759 --> 00:11:13,480 But you didn't go that route. 207 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:19,381 You went career-wise for quite a while and you had experiences 208 00:11:19,682 --> 00:11:24,106 on the brand side, on the advisory side, before ever 209 00:11:24,187 --> 00:11:25,629 deciding to do your own thing. 210 00:11:25,629 --> 00:11:30,693 All in thing, all in, can we unpack a little bit of the e-com 211 00:11:30,693 --> 00:11:33,336 and the brand side of your background too? 212 00:11:33,336 --> 00:11:40,842 Because I think there's a connection for a lot of our 213 00:11:40,863 --> 00:11:42,166 founder listeners in today's world of how to leverage your 214 00:11:42,186 --> 00:11:44,831 insights being on the brand side and working on the brand side? 215 00:11:44,831 --> 00:11:48,623 That could really help some of our listeners. 216 00:11:49,302 --> 00:11:51,865 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely Nate . 217 00:11:51,865 --> 00:11:55,187 So, if we fast forward a little bit, I know I sort of alluded 218 00:11:55,207 --> 00:11:58,990 to this earlier, but I went to college in Montreal in Canada, 219 00:12:00,071 --> 00:12:02,153 moved to New York after college, spent a couple of years at a 220 00:12:02,192 --> 00:12:06,535 hedge fund and then, in 2009, I joined what became the first 221 00:12:06,576 --> 00:12:06,916 startup. 222 00:12:06,916 --> 00:12:10,984 I was a part of a company that many of your listeners are 223 00:12:11,024 --> 00:12:14,490 probably familiar with, rent the Runway, a women's dress rental 224 00:12:14,510 --> 00:12:14,831 business. 225 00:12:14,831 --> 00:12:19,989 It's now a public company and, yeah, joined them two weeks into 226 00:12:19,989 --> 00:12:20,549 that business. 227 00:12:20,549 --> 00:12:24,950 So I was employee I believe five, you know, five or six, you 228 00:12:24,950 --> 00:12:27,966 know an early employee, their first ops hire. 229 00:12:27,966 --> 00:12:32,880 I had, no, I mean, besides my sports car business doing some 230 00:12:32,921 --> 00:12:36,308 fulfillment, I never had any like professional at scale 231 00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:38,113 operations experience. 232 00:12:38,113 --> 00:12:41,186 I think I got a C in my operations management course in 233 00:12:41,225 --> 00:12:41,647 college. 234 00:12:42,528 --> 00:12:47,729 Um, uh, don't tell anyone that Um, but uh, uh, yeah. 235 00:12:47,729 --> 00:12:50,658 So I, you know, joined Rent the Runway, um, running their 236 00:12:50,698 --> 00:12:51,764 warehouse operations. 237 00:12:51,764 --> 00:12:54,659 Um, you know, couldn't even spell FedEx at the time, right 238 00:12:54,740 --> 00:12:55,181 Like it was. 239 00:12:55,181 --> 00:12:59,091 It was all very new to me, but, um, you know, I, I, I was able 240 00:12:59,110 --> 00:13:02,046 to sort of figure it out and you know, uh, being fungible was, 241 00:13:02,768 --> 00:13:09,783 continues to be, a skillset that I, you know really pride myself 242 00:13:09,783 --> 00:13:13,626 in Um and brand experience, and then you know parlaying that 243 00:13:13,687 --> 00:13:14,148 into. 244 00:13:14,148 --> 00:13:19,851 You know the experiences that I have today or the. 245 00:13:19,851 --> 00:13:23,294 You know whether it's my own business or you know some of the 246 00:13:23,294 --> 00:13:32,700 advisory work I do, some of the investing that I do in in, you 247 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:32,980 know, startups. 248 00:13:32,980 --> 00:13:34,163 It's all been made better because I've been able to bring 249 00:13:34,183 --> 00:13:36,087 these different cohorts together with the experiences that I've 250 00:13:36,128 --> 00:13:36,347 had. 251 00:13:36,448 --> 00:13:40,224 So I spent a couple of years at Rent the Runway and then joined 252 00:13:40,244 --> 00:13:44,932 Birchbox, also on the brand side as their first full-time 253 00:13:44,972 --> 00:13:48,125 employee, naturally, their first ops hire as well. 254 00:13:48,125 --> 00:13:51,293 We were a little bit older when I joined. 255 00:13:51,293 --> 00:13:54,349 We were two months into the business, not two weeks into the 256 00:13:54,349 --> 00:13:54,690 business. 257 00:13:54,690 --> 00:13:56,544 Way less risky that way. 258 00:13:56,544 --> 00:13:59,405 Oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah, I was able to curtail much of the 259 00:13:59,466 --> 00:13:59,927 risks there. 260 00:13:59,927 --> 00:14:04,062 Um, we're laughing, Um, but uh, yeah, we were. 261 00:14:04,062 --> 00:14:08,309 We were, uh, shipping about 500 monthly orders uh when I, when 262 00:14:08,330 --> 00:14:12,721 I joined the business so still very, very small and when I left 263 00:14:12,721 --> 00:14:18,052 four years later, in 2014, we were shipping about a million 264 00:14:18,091 --> 00:14:21,493 orders a month and we were operating in five countries 265 00:14:22,398 --> 00:14:22,659 globally. 266 00:14:22,659 --> 00:14:26,577 So it became a really large supply chain, a really large 267 00:14:26,658 --> 00:14:28,472 operation, and I was fortunate to have responsibilities in 268 00:14:28,419 --> 00:14:29,559 managing that global supply chain a really large operation 269 00:14:29,506 --> 00:14:30,306 and I was fortunate to have responsibilities of managing 270 00:14:30,253 --> 00:14:31,695 that global supply chain. 271 00:14:33,796 --> 00:14:37,197 Speaker 1: So then you go through the experience of ops 272 00:14:37,937 --> 00:14:42,062 being a brand, and then let's now fast forward to what you're 273 00:14:42,102 --> 00:14:46,273 actually building today, which is a service for those brands, 274 00:14:46,373 --> 00:14:49,649 but you're the service provider now, so tell us about third 275 00:14:49,688 --> 00:14:49,970 person. 276 00:14:57,059 --> 00:14:57,421 Speaker 2: Sure, yeah. 277 00:14:57,421 --> 00:14:58,783 So you know kind of some of the origin there Nate is. 278 00:14:58,783 --> 00:15:00,126 You know, after spending a few years in San Francisco at a 279 00:15:00,167 --> 00:15:03,360 logistics startup called Ship, in 2017, I started a consulting 280 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,048 business called Second Marathon, which was effectively a 281 00:15:07,528 --> 00:15:11,024 fractional supply chain or operations consultancy. 282 00:15:11,024 --> 00:15:14,385 So helping you know emerging and high growth brands you know, 283 00:15:14,385 --> 00:15:18,081 mostly e-commerce brands really solve or avoid a lot of the 284 00:15:18,121 --> 00:15:20,909 same pitfalls that I faced when I was in-house as an operator. 285 00:15:20,909 --> 00:15:24,009 So that was anything from helping brands negotiate their 286 00:15:24,048 --> 00:15:27,801 shipping rates, helping them find a new fulfillment partner, 287 00:15:27,841 --> 00:15:32,212 a 3PL, helping them refine their own warehouse, packaging, 288 00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:33,605 procurement, all that good stuff . 289 00:15:33,605 --> 00:15:40,529 And then in 2020-ish, when COVID came around, our business 290 00:15:40,610 --> 00:15:43,623 was fortunately well-positioned, kind of being at the crossroads 291 00:15:43,623 --> 00:15:49,706 of e-commerce and logistics two good kind of markets there and 292 00:15:49,967 --> 00:15:52,241 what we saw was that the number one service the brands were 293 00:15:52,302 --> 00:15:55,369 coming to us seeking support with was helping them find a new 294 00:15:55,369 --> 00:15:55,971 3PL. 295 00:15:55,971 --> 00:15:59,609 So you know, long story short, we decided to kind of sunset a 296 00:15:59,629 --> 00:16:03,909 lot of the fractional work that we were doing you know, 297 00:16:04,711 --> 00:16:07,721 fractional operations work and really kind of dialing in into 298 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,749 this one service in particular, essentially leading 3PL RFPs or 299 00:16:11,769 --> 00:16:12,230 searches. 300 00:16:12,230 --> 00:16:16,378 So, uh, did that um successfully for a few years and 301 00:16:16,378 --> 00:16:20,650 then again had this epiphany and said, well, this is just 302 00:16:20,711 --> 00:16:23,860 kind of a boring old consulting business, right, not very 303 00:16:23,921 --> 00:16:24,481 scalable. 304 00:16:24,481 --> 00:16:25,004 Fun. 305 00:16:25,004 --> 00:16:28,412 It can be, you know, financially lucrative Um, you 306 00:16:28,432 --> 00:16:29,461 get what you put into it. 307 00:16:29,461 --> 00:16:34,120 But, um, I want to to like help many more brands, right, like 308 00:16:34,139 --> 00:16:36,842 the challenge of consulting businesses for those of us on, 309 00:16:37,202 --> 00:16:40,085 you know, listening to this, who are doing that today or have 310 00:16:40,125 --> 00:16:43,589 done that, you know, you know that you know you sort of cap 311 00:16:43,688 --> 00:16:46,750 out on the number of brands or clients you can take on in a 312 00:16:46,791 --> 00:16:47,672 given month or year. 313 00:16:47,672 --> 00:16:54,121 So, in March of 2024, a little over a year ago, about a year 314 00:16:54,142 --> 00:16:58,557 and a half ago launched this new business, third Person, which 315 00:16:58,618 --> 00:17:01,664 is effectively a platform, an AI-powered platform that helps 316 00:17:02,447 --> 00:17:04,731 brands discover and connect with 3PLs. 317 00:17:05,333 --> 00:17:08,005 So the way I kind of explain it, I know all our listeners, all 318 00:17:08,045 --> 00:17:11,271 our listeners are are, uh, you know, know what a 3PL is? 319 00:17:11,271 --> 00:17:13,797 Uh, after all, it is called the bootstrapper, the 320 00:17:13,817 --> 00:17:15,000 bootstrapper's guide to logistics. 321 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,048 But you know the way I sort of, you know, explain it to my 322 00:17:18,128 --> 00:17:20,240 mother, who doesn't know so much about logistics. 323 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,864 And 3PL is, I, you know, I say it's kind of like a dating app 324 00:17:23,365 --> 00:17:26,128 for brands looking to find a fulfillment partner, um, which 325 00:17:26,148 --> 00:17:28,490 still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to my mother, but, um, 326 00:17:28,671 --> 00:17:30,373 you all. 327 00:17:30,373 --> 00:17:34,244 So, uh, you know it's kind of like a tinder or bumble for 328 00:17:34,284 --> 00:17:36,490 brands come, you know, completely free for brands to 329 00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:38,905 use, doesn't cost them a nickel, no credit card, none of that 330 00:17:39,326 --> 00:17:41,903 takes a few minutes to share a little bit of information on 331 00:17:41,942 --> 00:17:42,464 your brand. 332 00:17:42,464 --> 00:17:47,038 You know a number of orders a month and skew count and sales 333 00:17:47,479 --> 00:17:50,036 channels and integrations need, kind of all that kind of you 334 00:17:50,056 --> 00:17:52,708 know baseline information that you would need to start to 335 00:17:52,769 --> 00:17:54,737 understand a brand's profile. 336 00:17:55,159 --> 00:17:57,765 And then what we've built is this algorithm that essentially 337 00:17:57,846 --> 00:18:02,463 scores you know Nate's hot sauce company against each of the 338 00:18:02,503 --> 00:18:06,352 three PLs on our platform and we've got about 300 different 339 00:18:06,372 --> 00:18:09,807 three PLs who have each opted in , who've shared information 340 00:18:09,867 --> 00:18:12,644 about themselves, essentially their ICPs, you know their ideal 341 00:18:12,644 --> 00:18:13,547 client profiles. 342 00:18:13,547 --> 00:18:17,343 Our algorithm takes a few seconds to run and then we 343 00:18:17,383 --> 00:18:19,689 present the top 10 matches ranked by score. 344 00:18:19,689 --> 00:18:24,766 So it'll say you know Matt's 3PL in Nashville is a 97% match, 345 00:18:24,766 --> 00:18:29,220 you know Sally's 3PL in Minneapolis is a 93% match, and 346 00:18:29,159 --> 00:18:29,595 so on down the list. 347 00:18:29,595 --> 00:18:30,019 And then the brand, and only the brand, can see the 3PLs 3PL 348 00:18:29,958 --> 00:18:30,340 in Minneapolis is a 93% match and so on down the list. 349 00:18:30,340 --> 00:18:34,371 And then the brand, and only the brand, can see the 3PLs. 350 00:18:34,371 --> 00:18:37,527 3pls can't see you, but you can see the 3PLs because we want 351 00:18:37,646 --> 00:18:40,413 some level of confidentiality there or anonymity. 352 00:18:41,221 --> 00:18:43,605 And then Nate's Candle Company, or I think I said Hot Sauce 353 00:18:43,645 --> 00:18:47,473 Company, can then connect directly with any of those 3PLs. 354 00:18:47,473 --> 00:18:48,585 You can reach out to all 10. 355 00:18:48,585 --> 00:18:49,925 You can reach out to none of them. 356 00:18:49,925 --> 00:18:52,910 You can reach out to all 10. 357 00:18:52,910 --> 00:18:54,016 You can reach out to none of them. 358 00:18:54,016 --> 00:18:54,740 You can reach out to four of them. 359 00:18:54,740 --> 00:18:56,329 You send them a message directly on the platform, like 360 00:18:56,349 --> 00:18:59,384 you would message an Airbnb host or an eBay seller, and then the 361 00:18:59,384 --> 00:19:02,075 two of you, the brand and the 3PL kind of go about your sales 362 00:19:02,115 --> 00:19:02,440 process. 363 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,589 So really focused on discovery and connection. 364 00:19:06,819 --> 00:19:11,008 Speaker 1: What is it about finding a fulfillment 3PL that 365 00:19:11,127 --> 00:19:15,902 is so hard for brands versus, you know, truckload services or 366 00:19:16,042 --> 00:19:20,952 LTL or air freight or some other more I'm leading the witness 367 00:19:20,992 --> 00:19:25,650 here more standardized services, but why do brands struggle so 368 00:19:25,690 --> 00:19:27,153 hard to find the right one? 369 00:19:27,539 --> 00:19:29,988 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that's you know, know, you did, 370 00:19:29,988 --> 00:19:32,375 uh, you know, lead the witness, but it's, but it's the truth, 371 00:19:32,435 --> 00:19:35,404 right, like and uh, you know I don't want this to come across 372 00:19:35,705 --> 00:19:39,980 um, uh, uh, you know, as a, as a pejorative or like dismissive, 373 00:19:40,059 --> 00:19:44,364 but like, the trucking market is much more commoditized, right, 374 00:19:45,084 --> 00:19:47,685 I mean it is, it is, it is transactional and you know, I 375 00:19:47,726 --> 00:19:50,428 probably have freight broker friends who would, you know, 376 00:19:50,489 --> 00:19:51,409 kill me for saying that. 377 00:19:51,409 --> 00:19:55,752 But like it mostly is, it mostly is right, I need someone 378 00:19:55,772 --> 00:20:01,096 to bring this freight from, you know, long Beach to Reno, nevada 379 00:20:01,096 --> 00:20:04,580 , right, and like, I'm just looking for low cost, right, 380 00:20:04,601 --> 00:20:09,246 whereas, you know, certainly I'm biased, but I think there's a 381 00:20:09,286 --> 00:20:11,008 lot of truth to my bias. 382 00:20:11,008 --> 00:20:13,651 The relationship between a brand and a 3PL is like a 383 00:20:13,711 --> 00:20:14,070 marriage. 384 00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:23,060 It is such an important relationship and the market is 385 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,365 incredibly fragmented, similar to the trucking market, where 386 00:20:24,385 --> 00:20:26,452 there's literally thousands, thousands and thousands. 387 00:20:26,452 --> 00:20:31,758 Conservatively, there's over 10,000 fulfillment 3PLs in the 388 00:20:31,817 --> 00:20:32,800 United States alone. 389 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,546 Right, and most are highly undiscoverable. 390 00:20:35,546 --> 00:20:40,082 Right, you know most you cannot discover on Google because 391 00:20:40,102 --> 00:20:43,691 they're small, kind of single facility, mom and pop, you know, 392 00:20:43,691 --> 00:20:47,785 husband wife businesses, really good businesses, but small. 393 00:20:47,785 --> 00:20:50,528 They don't have the marketing coffers that some of the larger, 394 00:20:50,528 --> 00:20:53,432 you know, venture backed and private equity backed players do 395 00:20:53,432 --> 00:20:58,426 have and it's such an important decision because of the amount 396 00:20:58,446 --> 00:21:01,560 of community, the daily communication that's required 397 00:21:01,621 --> 00:21:05,210 that fortunately for me and my business, but unfortunately for 398 00:21:05,230 --> 00:21:09,846 the market brands are really poor at discovering the right 399 00:21:09,866 --> 00:21:10,628 3PL right. 400 00:21:10,669 --> 00:21:14,104 The most common way is, you know , by Googling or, you know, I 401 00:21:14,124 --> 00:21:18,271 guess, increasingly on GPT and other AI tools. 402 00:21:18,271 --> 00:21:22,086 But you know, the most common question a brand would ask is 403 00:21:22,125 --> 00:21:26,446 like hey, nate, I saw that Nate's hot sauce companies are, 404 00:21:26,467 --> 00:21:27,569 you know, working with a 3PL. 405 00:21:27,569 --> 00:21:28,172 Who is it? 406 00:21:28,172 --> 00:21:31,019 And you tell me, oh, it's Matt's 3PL in Nashville. 407 00:21:31,019 --> 00:21:33,007 And I say, great, I'm going to work with Matt's 3PL in 408 00:21:33,048 --> 00:21:33,409 Nashville. 409 00:21:33,409 --> 00:21:38,788 Meanwhile, nate's got a 20 SKU hot sauce company and Matt's got 410 00:21:38,788 --> 00:21:42,579 a 5,000 SKU apparel company with high returns, right Like 411 00:21:43,060 --> 00:21:45,487 very and you know I'm doing 10,000 orders a month and Nate's 412 00:21:45,487 --> 00:21:49,748 doing 500 orders a month right Like very different profiles. 413 00:21:49,748 --> 00:21:53,851 Nate's doing 500 orders a month , right Like very different 414 00:21:53,891 --> 00:21:54,313 profiles. 415 00:21:54,313 --> 00:22:00,363 And unfortunately, 3pls often say yes to new business, yes, 416 00:22:00,403 --> 00:22:01,827 yes, yes, and don't really vet the opportunities correctly. 417 00:22:01,827 --> 00:22:03,272 So that's what we're trying to do with third person is really 418 00:22:03,353 --> 00:22:07,507 help qualify brands in 3PL such that the moment you connect with 419 00:22:07,507 --> 00:22:11,403 a 3PL because the score is very high you have a high level of 420 00:22:11,483 --> 00:22:13,210 confidence that it's going to be a good fit. 421 00:22:14,401 --> 00:22:15,342 Speaker 1: This is also a. 422 00:22:16,384 --> 00:22:21,813 I love the topic of brand identities and how five 423 00:22:21,873 --> 00:22:25,862 companies can make a fairly similar product at the end of 424 00:22:25,882 --> 00:22:31,305 the day, but the brand and the story behind those products in 425 00:22:31,345 --> 00:22:34,807 today's world and the narrative that gets built around it is 426 00:22:35,407 --> 00:22:38,130 often the differentiator consumers and you've built some 427 00:22:38,269 --> 00:22:42,632 kind of community or shared identity with your customers. 428 00:22:42,632 --> 00:22:56,490 There's a stickiness to that, and that is really the product 429 00:22:56,570 --> 00:23:01,665 and the revenue side, and you see a lot of brands invest very 430 00:23:01,826 --> 00:23:06,775 heavily in that and creating this perception, and yet when 431 00:23:06,795 --> 00:23:09,682 they go out and build their operation side of the business, 432 00:23:10,384 --> 00:23:14,088 they struggle sometimes because they may be stronger at the 433 00:23:14,128 --> 00:23:17,353 creative side and the product development side or marketing 434 00:23:17,752 --> 00:23:20,296 than they are at physical ops. 435 00:23:20,296 --> 00:23:24,704 And when they partner with the wrong 3PL, there can be a 436 00:23:25,224 --> 00:23:28,368 misalignment of the brand versus the execution. 437 00:23:28,368 --> 00:23:34,560 And so I guess I'm curious as you build out your product 438 00:23:34,661 --> 00:23:41,675 further and further, do you seek out certain types of brands 439 00:23:41,756 --> 00:23:45,862 that value that alignment between their brand and the ops, 440 00:23:45,862 --> 00:23:49,305 or is that not something that you think about at all as being 441 00:23:49,404 --> 00:23:49,865 necessary? 442 00:23:49,925 --> 00:23:54,730 Speaker 2: yet yeah, it's not something I focus too much on 443 00:23:54,789 --> 00:23:55,490 just yet, nate. 444 00:23:55,490 --> 00:23:57,813 I mean again, like I said earlier, we're still a young 445 00:23:57,873 --> 00:24:06,482 business, so still trying to understand what our ICP is right 446 00:24:06,482 --> 00:24:09,153 Like who gets the most value, both on the 3PL side and the 447 00:24:09,173 --> 00:24:09,455 brand side. 448 00:24:09,455 --> 00:24:12,924 I think I mentioned this earlier, but one of the reasons 449 00:24:12,944 --> 00:24:14,111 why we wanted to launch this business and make it free for 450 00:24:14,131 --> 00:24:16,961 brands is so that we can support many more brands that, unlike 451 00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:18,103 our consulting business. 452 00:24:18,103 --> 00:24:22,913 You know we were charging brands fees, right, and you know 453 00:24:22,913 --> 00:24:23,401 I thought they. 454 00:24:23,401 --> 00:24:26,630 You know I think they're very fair fees, but you know it's a 455 00:24:26,670 --> 00:24:30,669 lot of money and that smaller brand cannot afford to pay 10K 456 00:24:30,750 --> 00:24:35,146 or 25K for an engagement, even if it's great value that I was 457 00:24:35,207 --> 00:24:35,728 providing. 458 00:24:35,808 --> 00:24:40,424 So, by nature of free, it's somewhat self-selective in that 459 00:24:40,464 --> 00:24:44,082 we tend to get smaller brands come into third person than who 460 00:24:44,142 --> 00:24:46,628 came seeking our consulting support. 461 00:24:46,628 --> 00:25:20,818 But we've definitely seen, you know, brands shipping in excess 462 00:25:20,879 --> 00:25:22,605 of hundreds of thousands of orders a month. 463 00:25:22,605 --> 00:25:27,140 So we really have across the gamut, because it doesn't matter 464 00:25:27,140 --> 00:25:27,843 whether you're that. 465 00:25:27,843 --> 00:25:31,978 You know I have friends who are , you know, operations leaders 466 00:25:32,038 --> 00:25:35,628 at billion dollar businesses and friends who are just starting a 467 00:25:35,628 --> 00:25:37,841 new business, you know, who are pre-launch, and everyone has 468 00:25:37,881 --> 00:25:40,809 the same problems of like who is the best 3pl? 469 00:25:40,809 --> 00:25:41,813 For me it's just. 470 00:25:41,833 --> 00:25:43,837 Speaker 1: The scale of that problem is obviously different 471 00:25:43,857 --> 00:25:47,426 depending on where you are what's your favorite part right 472 00:25:47,546 --> 00:25:51,213 now about building a company at this particular stage? 473 00:25:53,183 --> 00:25:54,688 Speaker 2: uh, yeah, it's um. 474 00:25:54,688 --> 00:25:59,157 So this is the first company that I've been a part of that is 475 00:25:59,157 --> 00:26:03,753 , you know, truly a software business, and sorry, when I say 476 00:26:03,773 --> 00:26:06,500 a part of that, you know I'm leading, or, you know, employed 477 00:26:06,541 --> 00:26:06,922 by right. 478 00:26:06,922 --> 00:26:10,458 You know I've invested in a couple personally, but you know 479 00:26:10,557 --> 00:26:12,911 advise a couple that are more software plays, but this is the 480 00:26:12,951 --> 00:26:17,674 first that I have significant interest in and it's been fun to 481 00:26:17,674 --> 00:26:18,739 build a product right. 482 00:26:18,739 --> 00:26:52,131 It's hard, no-transcript, I mean. 483 00:26:52,131 --> 00:26:55,499 You know we're only, at this moment in time, about 16 months 484 00:26:55,699 --> 00:26:58,955 old or 16 months young, and we've supported about 1000 485 00:26:58,995 --> 00:27:01,792 brands on their journey of finding a 3PL. 486 00:27:02,495 --> 00:27:04,965 In the last seven years of my consulting business, I think I 487 00:27:05,005 --> 00:27:09,135 probably worked with 150 brands, right, so it's not perfectly 488 00:27:09,197 --> 00:27:12,490 apples to apples, right, but you know the point is, is that, 489 00:27:12,530 --> 00:27:16,460 like building software, you know , that lives on the internet, 490 00:27:17,382 --> 00:27:21,620 right, where you know I woke up this morning and overnight, you 491 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,195 know, I had a couple of brands sign up, you know, while I was 492 00:27:24,235 --> 00:27:24,737 sleeping. 493 00:27:24,737 --> 00:27:28,673 And like doing things right, like clicking on our you know 494 00:27:28,754 --> 00:27:32,462 respective call to actions right , to do this or to do that, like 495 00:27:32,462 --> 00:27:36,446 that's pretty cool, right, and like Matt didn't have to get on 496 00:27:36,486 --> 00:27:37,109 a call with them. 497 00:27:37,109 --> 00:27:39,157 I didn't have to talk to them or send them an email, right. 498 00:27:39,157 --> 00:27:42,149 It's like it's a software product doing its software thing 499 00:27:42,149 --> 00:27:42,289 Right. 500 00:27:42,289 --> 00:27:45,336 Just like you can, you know, book a fare on an airline. 501 00:27:45,336 --> 00:27:48,503 Or you know, book a hotel room on Expedia at any moment in the 502 00:27:48,543 --> 00:27:50,416 day, right, and you don't have to talk to anyone, right. 503 00:27:50,416 --> 00:27:52,452 So that's been really thrilling to see. 504 00:27:52,573 --> 00:27:54,075 And you know we are a lean team. 505 00:27:54,075 --> 00:28:04,898 You know you are you were talking to our only true FTE. 506 00:28:04,898 --> 00:28:06,343 You know full time employee here. 507 00:28:06,343 --> 00:28:09,994 You know I've got a really great team of you know support 508 00:28:10,034 --> 00:28:10,515 around me. 509 00:28:10,515 --> 00:28:15,231 But you know, yeah, we are, we are, we are lean and you know I 510 00:28:15,251 --> 00:28:18,479 have this vision of you know where I want to be and you know, 511 00:28:18,479 --> 00:28:21,471 every day it's sort of a struggle that we can't get there 512 00:28:21,471 --> 00:28:23,115 tomorrow, right? 513 00:28:23,115 --> 00:28:26,383 So you know whether that's just you know my mantra of kind of 514 00:28:26,430 --> 00:28:29,017 staying focused and, like you know, building out a really 515 00:28:29,076 --> 00:28:32,133 great first product and not letting others in the market who 516 00:28:32,133 --> 00:28:36,362 are doing certain things, you know, conflate where we need to 517 00:28:36,402 --> 00:28:36,603 be. 518 00:28:36,603 --> 00:28:40,215 But yeah, it's been a lot of fun and excited to see where we 519 00:28:40,275 --> 00:28:41,437 are in another 16 months. 520 00:28:42,337 --> 00:28:44,141 Speaker 1: Who do you talk to when you get stuck? 521 00:28:45,643 --> 00:28:46,525 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have that. 522 00:28:46,525 --> 00:28:47,792 Um, that's a great question. 523 00:28:47,792 --> 00:28:51,061 Um, I've got, uh, you know I've been fortunate where I have a 524 00:28:51,101 --> 00:28:51,789 lot of um. 525 00:28:51,789 --> 00:28:56,238 You know friends, peers, mentors, um, who are also 526 00:28:56,298 --> 00:29:00,745 running um, I'll say loosely similar kind of at this stage. 527 00:29:00,745 --> 00:29:03,294 You know early stage kind of bootstrappy. 528 00:29:03,294 --> 00:29:08,873 You know businesses, also in logistics, you know supply chain 529 00:29:08,873 --> 00:29:12,508 , so you know there's a lot of kind of empathy for each other 530 00:29:12,528 --> 00:29:13,471 and kind of what we're doing. 531 00:29:13,471 --> 00:29:16,496 So you know I've got a couple friends there. 532 00:29:17,157 --> 00:29:18,619 I'm also part of a founders group, couple friends there. 533 00:29:18,619 --> 00:29:21,584 I'm also part of a founders group you know, similar to the 534 00:29:21,644 --> 00:29:32,993 one that you run, nate, called Hampton and tends to be more 535 00:29:33,013 --> 00:29:34,157 focused on tech founders than supply chain founders and 536 00:29:34,177 --> 00:29:36,164 there's only maybe half a dozen supply chain founders in the 537 00:29:36,184 --> 00:29:36,446 group. 538 00:29:36,446 --> 00:29:39,432 But you know, every month we have a call with, you know, my 539 00:29:39,494 --> 00:29:42,720 core group, which is about seven or eight of us and you know 540 00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:43,802 just kind of sharing. 541 00:29:43,802 --> 00:29:47,275 You know wins and losses and you know opportunities and it's 542 00:29:47,335 --> 00:29:51,110 been helpful to realize that when you think you're the only 543 00:29:51,230 --> 00:29:54,818 one kind of experiencing a particular problem, whether it's 544 00:29:54,818 --> 00:29:55,559 personnel. 545 00:29:55,559 --> 00:29:58,615 You know financial or cash. 546 00:29:58,615 --> 00:30:00,643 You know product there are, you know everyone else. 547 00:30:00,643 --> 00:30:01,365 Or you know product there are. 548 00:30:01,365 --> 00:30:03,152 You know everyone else or you know there's always someone 549 00:30:03,172 --> 00:30:05,438 who's been there, done that right and you know where you can 550 00:30:05,438 --> 00:30:06,100 learn something. 551 00:30:06,121 --> 00:30:08,275 Speaker 1: So I think just being vulnerable and asking questions 552 00:30:08,275 --> 00:30:15,097 and listening is really helpful the phrase that I like to share 553 00:30:15,097 --> 00:30:17,943 with founders in particular is either you're going into a storm 554 00:30:17,943 --> 00:30:22,273 you're deep in the storm already, or you're coming out of 555 00:30:22,273 --> 00:30:26,761 one, and if you don't like where you are, just wait five 556 00:30:26,822 --> 00:30:27,403 minutes even. 557 00:30:27,769 --> 00:30:30,200 Because you can experience all three of those in the same day, 558 00:30:30,942 --> 00:30:34,612 and the journey of an entrepreneur is unlike anything 559 00:30:34,773 --> 00:30:34,972 else. 560 00:30:34,972 --> 00:30:41,942 There is more variety and volatility, but also more 561 00:30:42,083 --> 00:30:46,673 fulfillment like no pun intended actually of getting to see 562 00:30:46,734 --> 00:30:49,119 something that you imagined come to life. 563 00:30:49,119 --> 00:30:54,451 It's almost like a child that you've created and a different 564 00:30:54,491 --> 00:30:55,834 kind of ownership. 565 00:30:55,834 --> 00:30:59,317 You can still have ownership of results in a career, but it's 566 00:30:59,397 --> 00:31:03,681 somehow different when it's your fingerprints and your name 567 00:31:05,122 --> 00:31:07,624 that's standing behind it, because there ends up being a 568 00:31:07,663 --> 00:31:10,947 sense of personal, healthy personal pride. 569 00:31:10,947 --> 00:31:16,420 So I guess my last question for you is how do you think about 570 00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:17,863 your own identity now? 571 00:31:17,863 --> 00:31:20,235 Do you describe yourself? 572 00:31:20,235 --> 00:31:21,872 I'm an entrepreneur or I'm a founder? 573 00:31:21,872 --> 00:31:22,795 Or are you? 574 00:31:22,795 --> 00:31:25,241 No, I'm, I'm a builder or an ops guy like? 575 00:31:25,241 --> 00:31:29,937 How do you think about yourself today differently than you 576 00:31:29,977 --> 00:31:30,940 might have 10 years ago? 577 00:31:33,932 --> 00:31:36,977 Speaker 2: uh, I think, I think it depends who I'm talking to, 578 00:31:37,037 --> 00:31:38,298 right In, like different circles . 579 00:31:38,298 --> 00:31:41,382 I don't mean that to sound overly kind of tongue in cheek, 580 00:31:41,481 --> 00:31:45,286 but you know, I think there's truth there. 581 00:31:45,286 --> 00:31:51,255 But yeah, I think you know generally, you know, certainly 582 00:31:51,394 --> 00:31:55,519 in, you know, within the cohort of folks that I typically talk 583 00:31:55,539 --> 00:32:00,105 to, which is, you know, logistics founders, you know 584 00:32:00,164 --> 00:32:03,173 logistics leaders, you know maybe even e-commerce leaders, 585 00:32:04,035 --> 00:32:08,708 um is, uh, you know, I don't, I don't label myself as a tech 586 00:32:08,808 --> 00:32:12,496 founder, right, if I'm at a tech dinner here in Nashville, maybe 587 00:32:12,496 --> 00:32:18,791 I do, um, but, yeah, I, I, I, I really consider what we're 588 00:32:18,851 --> 00:32:21,853 building here at third person, uh, to be a connector. 589 00:32:21,853 --> 00:32:27,336 Right, you know, I want to connect people with you know who 590 00:32:27,336 --> 00:32:28,277 are like-minded. 591 00:32:28,277 --> 00:32:31,318 Or, you know buyers with sellers. 592 00:32:31,318 --> 00:32:35,280 You know I'm always trying to bring together the cohorts that 593 00:32:35,401 --> 00:32:38,923 I play deep in, which is, you know, the 3PL market, the 594 00:32:39,004 --> 00:32:41,765 e-commerce market and the logistics tech market. 595 00:32:42,706 --> 00:32:46,288 And you know if I had a nickel, for every time I got a. 596 00:32:46,288 --> 00:32:50,380 You know a DM on whatever social media or Slack message or 597 00:32:50,380 --> 00:32:53,511 a text or an email saying, hey, matt, you know, do you know 598 00:32:53,553 --> 00:32:53,972 this guy? 599 00:32:53,972 --> 00:32:59,160 Or, hey, matt, I'm in the market for an ERP, a 3PL, an OMS 600 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,164 , a shipping carrier, like who's the best one or who should I 601 00:33:03,205 --> 00:33:03,566 talk to? 602 00:33:03,566 --> 00:33:06,938 Right, like what I'm trying to do with third person is not only 603 00:33:06,938 --> 00:33:10,575 helping brands discover the best 3PL, right, I didn't call 604 00:33:10,615 --> 00:33:10,775 this. 605 00:33:10,775 --> 00:33:12,278 Find a warehousecom. 606 00:33:12,278 --> 00:33:14,343 Maybe I should have for SEO. 607 00:33:14,343 --> 00:33:17,471 I'm not a marketing guy either. 608 00:33:17,471 --> 00:33:21,774 I don't know what I am right, but you know I gave it that 609 00:33:21,834 --> 00:33:25,155 fungible name because you know my and vendors, suppliers, can 610 00:33:25,176 --> 00:33:43,831 sort of connect amongst themselves. 611 00:33:43,831 --> 00:33:47,941 Pairing interests and desires is really what I'm trying to do. 612 00:33:48,461 --> 00:33:50,619 Speaker 1: And then and is that the origin of the name, then are 613 00:33:50,619 --> 00:33:53,250 you the third person and you're connecting the first and second 614 00:33:53,250 --> 00:33:53,672 , or how? 615 00:33:55,195 --> 00:33:57,058 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, you know it was sort of a play on 616 00:33:57,099 --> 00:34:00,855 words because you know, my consulting business was second 617 00:34:00,895 --> 00:34:04,607 marathon, kind of like the second journey in my career, the 618 00:34:04,607 --> 00:34:07,067 first being kind of, you know, being employed and working for 619 00:34:07,168 --> 00:34:07,770 others and then. 620 00:34:07,770 --> 00:34:11,000 So I sort of like the second to third, uh component. 621 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,420 I also liked, you know, third person, kind of like 3PL, third 622 00:34:14,460 --> 00:34:18,572 party, Um and then, but then also uh, you know what, what, 623 00:34:18,592 --> 00:34:18,692 what? 624 00:34:18,692 --> 00:34:20,996 What you're sort of suggesting, Nate, is that sort of third 625 00:34:21,036 --> 00:34:23,557 person perspective, right, Like everyone's trying to like ask a 626 00:34:23,597 --> 00:34:26,041 friend, like who is the best, who should I talk to? 627 00:34:26,041 --> 00:34:30,224 Right, and I want, I want to build a platform that helps you 628 00:34:30,625 --> 00:34:31,846 make that smart decision. 629 00:34:33,210 --> 00:34:35,293 Speaker 1: Well, let's go right to your ICP, then. 630 00:34:35,293 --> 00:34:39,023 Who should reach out to you if they need help, and where can 631 00:34:39,043 --> 00:34:39,563 they find you? 632 00:34:40,065 --> 00:34:40,264 Speaker 2: Sure. 633 00:34:40,264 --> 00:34:44,258 So, as I said earlier, we've got about 300 3PLs on the 634 00:34:44,278 --> 00:34:45,885 platform, always looking to bring on more. 635 00:34:45,885 --> 00:34:49,835 We've got single facility 10,000 square foot 3PLs and 636 00:34:49,875 --> 00:34:54,164 we've got the largest global you know, billion dollar 3PLs. 637 00:34:54,164 --> 00:34:57,375 If you're a 3PL, we'd love to have you on our platform. 638 00:34:57,375 --> 00:35:01,903 On the brand side, you know you can be pre-launch, pre-revenue 639 00:35:02,130 --> 00:35:04,977 you know looking at launching your olive oil company in the 640 00:35:05,036 --> 00:35:09,014 fall, or you can be, you know, a billion dollar business, or you 641 00:35:09,014 --> 00:35:11,000 know, doing tens of millions on Shopify. 642 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,639 We'd love for you to take a look at our platform and, given 643 00:35:13,659 --> 00:35:16,110 that we have three PLs that kind of span the gamut whether 644 00:35:16,130 --> 00:35:20,740 you're shipping CBD or alcohol or fresh food or apparel, we've 645 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:21,643 got someone for you. 646 00:35:21,722 --> 00:35:25,298 So I hate to sound overly cliche , but currently our ICP is 647 00:35:25,338 --> 00:35:29,072 basically anyone looking for a 3PL at any 3PL, looking for new 648 00:35:29,112 --> 00:35:34,242 leads, um, you can find me on on on LinkedIn, um, so you know, 649 00:35:34,523 --> 00:35:36,813 type in my name there Matt Hertz , or maybe it's Matthew. 650 00:35:36,813 --> 00:35:40,400 We're a little bit more formal on LinkedIn, um, but I, I, uh 651 00:35:40,421 --> 00:35:41,864 LinkedIn, but I'm always posting a lot. 652 00:35:41,864 --> 00:35:46,789 I have a newsletter that goes out every week or so, free 653 00:35:47,311 --> 00:35:47,853 newsletter. 654 00:35:47,853 --> 00:35:49,096 So, yeah, find me there. 655 00:35:49,096 --> 00:35:50,960 Go to thirdpersonco, not com. 656 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:56,677 We were too cheap to buy the M Thirdpersonco. 657 00:35:56,677 --> 00:36:03,932 And yeah, I'd love to connect with anyone, um, you know, to 658 00:36:03,952 --> 00:36:04,833 talk you know logistics and fulfillment. 659 00:36:04,854 --> 00:36:06,175 Speaker 1: Matt, I've enjoyed our conversation. 660 00:36:06,175 --> 00:36:11,891 I could talk and nerd out on operations with you for days. 661 00:36:11,891 --> 00:36:15,880 I'm certain, um, and I just I like your straight down the 662 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,990 middle sort of dry sense of humor. 663 00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:23,371 Um, it speaks to me and, like I always say to every guest, that 664 00:36:23,371 --> 00:36:25,960 we have and I genuinely mean it we are all rooting for you, 665 00:36:25,980 --> 00:36:26,119 matt. 666 00:36:26,769 --> 00:36:27,333 Speaker 2: I appreciate it. 667 00:36:27,333 --> 00:36:28,336 Nate, this has been a lot of fun. 668 00:36:29,090 --> 00:36:33,393 Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing your story, thanks for listening 669 00:36:33,393 --> 00:36:35,740 to another episode of the Bootstrapper's Guide to 670 00:36:35,780 --> 00:36:39,213 Logistics, and a special thank you to our sponsors and the team 671 00:36:39,213 --> 00:36:40,996 behind the scenes who make it all possible. 672 00:36:40,996 --> 00:36:44,503 Be sure to like, follow or subscribe to the podcast to get 673 00:36:44,523 --> 00:36:45,304 the latest updates. 674 00:36:45,304 --> 00:36:48,356 To learn more about the show and connect with the growing 675 00:36:48,398 --> 00:36:51,753 community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounderscom. 676 00:36:51,753 --> 00:36:55,601 And, of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to 677 00:36:55,601 --> 00:36:56,364 share their stories.