1 00:00:01,762 --> 00:00:03,766 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to 2 00:00:03,806 --> 00:00:06,432 Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it 3 00:00:06,451 --> 00:00:08,134 the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 4 00:00:08,134 --> 00:00:11,067 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and 5 00:00:11,106 --> 00:00:12,570 inspiring others to take the leap. 6 00:00:13,699 --> 00:00:16,228 Speaker 2: It's a roller coaster ride that you might ultimately 7 00:00:16,248 --> 00:00:16,489 fail. 8 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:19,068 Speaker 1: That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 9 00:00:19,782 --> 00:00:20,646 Speaker 2: It was very hard. 10 00:00:20,646 --> 00:00:23,068 It truly is building a legacy. 11 00:00:23,068 --> 00:00:26,289 The more life you live, the more wisdom you have. 12 00:00:26,839 --> 00:00:29,106 Speaker 1: Because we are where we're supposed to be kind of 13 00:00:29,248 --> 00:00:30,251 answering the call. 14 00:00:30,780 --> 00:00:33,209 Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 15 00:00:33,209 --> 00:00:35,134 I'm your host, nate Schutz. 16 00:00:35,134 --> 00:00:38,201 Let's build something together from the ground up. 17 00:00:38,201 --> 00:00:42,826 Hello everybody, and welcome back to the show. 18 00:00:42,826 --> 00:00:45,548 We are deep into summer 2025. 19 00:00:45,548 --> 00:00:50,712 We have shared, I think, close to 20 founder stories so far 20 00:00:50,752 --> 00:00:55,216 this year well over 100 now since the beginning of the show, 21 00:00:55,216 --> 00:01:01,566 which still blows my mind when I stop finding interesting 22 00:01:01,606 --> 00:01:04,650 people to talk to and people that have interesting stories, 23 00:01:04,751 --> 00:01:07,194 and I don't think we're going to run out of those anytime soon. 24 00:01:07,661 --> 00:01:10,989 This week we've got Matt Hertz, who's the CEO and founder of 25 00:01:11,109 --> 00:01:11,811 Third Person. 26 00:01:11,811 --> 00:01:15,087 Matt has a how can I say? 27 00:01:15,087 --> 00:01:18,938 Maybe one of the most diverse backgrounds of somebody in 28 00:01:18,978 --> 00:01:19,359 logistics. 29 00:01:19,359 --> 00:01:25,128 He has worked in cable TV, he's worked on hedge fund stuff. 30 00:01:25,128 --> 00:01:29,662 Per his resume, he has been on the brand side multiple times, 31 00:01:29,701 --> 00:01:34,131 he's an advisor to startups and he also has his own startup. 32 00:01:34,131 --> 00:01:38,631 So with that somewhat lengthy intro, matt, there's parts of 33 00:01:38,671 --> 00:01:41,721 your story I definitely want to dig into more than others. 34 00:01:41,721 --> 00:01:46,837 But my first question right off the bat is how did, how have 35 00:01:46,897 --> 00:01:52,727 you managed to spread such a wide net in your career of 36 00:01:52,867 --> 00:01:53,289 interests? 37 00:01:54,631 --> 00:01:56,713 Speaker 2: Yeah, they, nate. 38 00:01:56,713 --> 00:02:00,287 I you know when you said that I had experience in cable TV, I 39 00:02:00,307 --> 00:02:01,971 was like really, is that right? 40 00:02:01,971 --> 00:02:03,052 Where do you see that? 41 00:02:03,052 --> 00:02:05,542 And then you know I had to jog my memory and I did have an 42 00:02:05,602 --> 00:02:12,447 internship at CNBC in gosh, maybe 2007, 2008, maybe 0 know, 43 00:02:12,587 --> 00:02:14,348 I was never good at school. 44 00:02:14,348 --> 00:02:30,580 I became good at school when I had to, but you know I wasn't 45 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,203 the class clown but school was just really not for me, despite 46 00:02:32,223 --> 00:02:32,925 graduating from a good college. 47 00:02:32,925 --> 00:02:38,432 But the point is I sort of had to pursue opportunities that you 48 00:02:38,432 --> 00:02:42,826 know came to me right or that were directly of interest to me. 49 00:02:42,826 --> 00:02:45,132 And you know I joined CNBC. 50 00:02:45,211 --> 00:02:48,485 As I mentioned, I actually interned for Jim Cramer for 51 00:02:48,526 --> 00:02:52,683 those who are familiar with his show Mad Money because I was 52 00:02:52,704 --> 00:02:55,711 interested in the markets and finance and writing. 53 00:02:55,711 --> 00:02:58,610 I was the editor of our business school newspaper. 54 00:02:58,610 --> 00:03:04,425 So yeah, it's been a fun journey and hedge funds taught 55 00:03:04,444 --> 00:03:06,688 me a lot about that. 56 00:03:06,688 --> 00:03:11,265 Good things can go to zero real fast and there's applications 57 00:03:11,326 --> 00:03:14,560 of that to modern day business and startups and e-commerce. 58 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,550 So it's been a fun journey and excited to dig into some of it 59 00:03:18,590 --> 00:03:19,352 with you today, nate. 60 00:03:21,745 --> 00:03:23,368 Speaker 1: Matt, I want to go right to your statement about 61 00:03:23,468 --> 00:03:24,532 not being good in school. 62 00:03:24,532 --> 00:03:26,082 Matt, I want to go right to your question then about not 63 00:03:26,122 --> 00:03:27,806 being, or your statement about not being good in school. 64 00:03:27,806 --> 00:03:29,871 You strike me as somebody who has intentional interests and a 65 00:03:29,890 --> 00:03:32,536 somewhat contrarian take on things. 66 00:03:32,536 --> 00:03:36,841 Was school not interesting to you, like you could do it, but 67 00:03:36,881 --> 00:03:40,668 you just didn't, it didn't capture your interest, or was it 68 00:03:40,668 --> 00:03:44,555 you were just rebellious or what? 69 00:03:44,555 --> 00:03:47,520 Because you're clearly successful, you've got a bunch 70 00:03:47,540 --> 00:03:51,429 of things working in your favor, but maybe the school structure 71 00:03:51,468 --> 00:03:52,570 and system wasn't for you. 72 00:03:52,931 --> 00:03:54,662 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it was that I was certainly not 73 00:03:54,701 --> 00:03:58,608 rebellious, at least I was good at hiding any rebellion from my 74 00:03:58,647 --> 00:03:59,050 parents. 75 00:03:59,050 --> 00:04:06,284 But no, my teachers always loved me, right. 76 00:04:06,284 --> 00:04:09,266 I was, like you know, the the kid that the teachers love, but 77 00:04:09,287 --> 00:04:11,848 couldn't understand why I wasn't studious, right, like you know, 78 00:04:11,848 --> 00:04:14,590 when I went home I just wasn't doing my homework and didn't 79 00:04:14,610 --> 00:04:15,471 care to do my homework. 80 00:04:15,471 --> 00:04:18,692 But it was really good at math, you know I'm, you know I'm 81 00:04:18,713 --> 00:04:20,814 really good at mental math to you know, to this day. 82 00:04:20,814 --> 00:04:25,257 So, you know, I was always you know what's that expression Like 83 00:04:25,257 --> 00:04:27,365 , you know, very, very street smart, not book smart. 84 00:04:27,625 --> 00:04:30,442 And you know, as a result of that, I sort of had this 85 00:04:30,502 --> 00:04:33,269 epiphany, you know, I guess, sometime during high school and 86 00:04:33,290 --> 00:04:38,406 I said, like you know, I'm not going to be that 4.0 GPA, you 87 00:04:38,425 --> 00:04:40,468 know, get the scholarships and all that. 88 00:04:40,468 --> 00:04:42,552 So I sort of have to figure out my own journey. 89 00:04:42,552 --> 00:04:43,874 Like I knew where I wanted to be. 90 00:04:43,874 --> 00:04:46,937 I knew I wanted to get that good job out of college and be 91 00:04:46,997 --> 00:04:50,970 successful in my career, but I knew it wouldn't be. 92 00:04:50,970 --> 00:04:53,418 I didn't believe it would happen through, you know, 93 00:04:53,478 --> 00:04:54,401 academic achievement. 94 00:04:54,401 --> 00:04:57,973 It would have to be through, like, figuring out how to get 95 00:04:58,014 --> 00:05:02,747 there on a somewhat non-linear path or a non sort of structured 96 00:05:02,747 --> 00:05:03,148 path. 97 00:05:03,187 --> 00:05:05,620 So throughout the different internships that I had during 98 00:05:05,661 --> 00:05:08,668 college and, frankly, even in high school when I started my 99 00:05:08,889 --> 00:05:12,805 internship for a New York, you know everything sort of built on 100 00:05:12,805 --> 00:05:13,226 itself. 101 00:05:13,226 --> 00:05:15,422 And you know I've always been really good at networking and 102 00:05:15,461 --> 00:05:18,408 connecting with folks like yourself and that's always been 103 00:05:18,449 --> 00:05:19,432 a superpower for me. 104 00:05:19,432 --> 00:05:21,584 So it's been, you know I've been, I've been, I've been 105 00:05:21,603 --> 00:05:22,324 fortunate in the journey that I've. 106 00:05:22,324 --> 00:05:23,908 You know I've been fortunate in the journey that I've. 107 00:05:23,908 --> 00:05:26,274 You know that I see myself on today. 108 00:05:27,482 --> 00:05:30,144 Speaker 1: I also know when you were in high school that you had 109 00:05:30,144 --> 00:05:35,392 a business in the early days of the Internet and you were 110 00:05:35,593 --> 00:05:37,415 buying and selling baseball cards. 111 00:05:37,415 --> 00:05:44,882 Unpack that for me because I remember I'm about five or six 112 00:05:44,923 --> 00:05:47,805 years older than you, so I remember those really early days 113 00:05:47,805 --> 00:05:51,487 of the internet and when people were terrified to buy something 114 00:05:51,487 --> 00:05:53,250 on the internet because they thought their credit card was 115 00:05:53,269 --> 00:05:55,812 going to get ripped off. 116 00:05:55,812 --> 00:06:00,995 And yet you at age 14 or 15 were you already had a six 117 00:06:01,055 --> 00:06:02,036 figure business going. 118 00:06:02,557 --> 00:06:04,678 Speaker 2: You already had a six-figure business going. 119 00:06:04,678 --> 00:06:04,918 I did. 120 00:06:04,918 --> 00:06:11,310 Yeah, you know it's funny, nate , and I appreciate you pointing 121 00:06:11,350 --> 00:06:11,934 that out on my LinkedIn. 122 00:06:11,934 --> 00:06:22,463 I believe you know I haven't put together a resume in many 123 00:06:22,483 --> 00:06:22,725 years, gladly. 124 00:06:22,725 --> 00:06:23,790 But you know, when I was applying for jobs, you know, a 125 00:06:23,810 --> 00:06:24,894 little while back before starting my own business, the 126 00:06:24,915 --> 00:06:27,101 line on my resume that always provoked the most questions or 127 00:06:27,141 --> 00:06:31,230 intrigue was this you know, very small line at the bottom that 128 00:06:31,911 --> 00:06:37,447 referenced my 1999 to 2004 sports card and card with a D, 129 00:06:37,468 --> 00:06:41,415 not car, but sports card and collectible business. 130 00:06:41,415 --> 00:06:44,124 And I think I say on LinkedIn that I survived the first 131 00:06:44,163 --> 00:06:48,250 dot-com crash, which is sort of tug of cheek, but it's true. 132 00:06:48,250 --> 00:06:51,882 And to your point, nate, yeah, I started in Canada, where I was 133 00:06:51,882 --> 00:06:52,545 born and raised. 134 00:06:53,346 --> 00:06:55,992 Ebay wasn't even in Canada back in 99. 135 00:06:55,992 --> 00:06:59,870 Or if it was, it was like no one knew it because I wasn't 136 00:06:59,910 --> 00:07:01,355 selling on eBay. 137 00:07:01,355 --> 00:07:04,564 I was actually selling on Yahoo , had an auction site, yahoo 138 00:07:04,646 --> 00:07:05,588 Auctions in Canada. 139 00:07:05,588 --> 00:07:10,509 This was also before online payments like PayPal or Venmo or 140 00:07:10,509 --> 00:07:13,742 Zeller, you know, cash app, you know none of those were around, 141 00:07:13,742 --> 00:07:14,244 right. 142 00:07:14,244 --> 00:07:17,552 So you know I was buying and selling on Yahoo Auctions, 143 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,874 literally paying, you know, sending cash in the mail or 144 00:07:21,973 --> 00:07:25,009 money orders, you know, Western Union money orders, personal 145 00:07:25,029 --> 00:07:27,242 checks, cash Union money orders, personal checks, cashier, like 146 00:07:27,382 --> 00:07:30,673 all that stuff, right, literally meeting people in person at you 147 00:07:30,673 --> 00:07:35,348 know the mall to like transact and yeah, it was fairly scrappy 148 00:07:35,389 --> 00:07:40,985 but I mean gosh, it taught me a lot about e-commerce and you 149 00:07:41,026 --> 00:07:45,334 know sort of you know buying and selling and transacting, right 150 00:07:45,374 --> 00:07:46,074 Like making money. 151 00:07:46,199 --> 00:07:49,814 And yes, I, you know, when I went home a few years ago, I 152 00:07:49,875 --> 00:07:53,728 still have these like carbon paper stacks of every 153 00:07:53,788 --> 00:07:56,425 transaction I made, you know I would keep a copy and then send 154 00:07:56,446 --> 00:08:00,862 the, you know, send a copy in the bubble mailer with the card 155 00:08:00,963 --> 00:08:01,567 that I sold. 156 00:08:01,567 --> 00:08:05,410 And you know, I started adding up you know a few of the stacks 157 00:08:05,439 --> 00:08:09,009 because I was bored one afternoon and, yeah, it was, it 158 00:08:09,048 --> 00:08:11,903 was, it was a healthy six figure business, you know, 25 years 159 00:08:11,942 --> 00:08:16,093 ago, as a, you know, teenager, a 13 or 14 year old. 160 00:08:16,093 --> 00:08:19,422 So, yeah, you know, I'm sure there were lessons back then 161 00:08:19,461 --> 00:08:23,569 that I still, you know, can, can still apply to you know running 162 00:08:23,569 --> 00:08:25,374 a business today, 25 years later. 163 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,187 Speaker 1: Was there a baseball card or a piece of memorabilia 164 00:08:29,226 --> 00:08:30,932 that got away that you still remember? 165 00:08:32,019 --> 00:08:35,606 Speaker 2: You know, the worst part about being a millennial, 166 00:08:35,988 --> 00:08:41,826 being a kid of the 80s in the sports card industry is that it 167 00:08:41,846 --> 00:08:48,364 was known as the junk wax era of cards, and what that means was 168 00:08:48,404 --> 00:08:49,649 that it was just. 169 00:08:49,649 --> 00:08:52,528 There was so much overproduction in sports cards 170 00:08:52,568 --> 00:08:55,662 back then, so none of them are worth anything, or there's very 171 00:08:55,741 --> 00:08:57,107 few that are actually worth something. 172 00:08:57,107 --> 00:09:01,022 Obviously, the Michael Jordan rookie card, you know the Wayne 173 00:09:01,042 --> 00:09:03,065 Gretzky rookie card kind of the best of the best. 174 00:09:03,065 --> 00:09:06,630 But, man, I wish I was born in the fifties and was collecting 175 00:09:06,691 --> 00:09:08,537 Mickey Mantle cards, and it was. 176 00:09:08,537 --> 00:09:11,284 I still have literally tens of thousands of cards back in my 177 00:09:11,325 --> 00:09:14,200 childhood home which my parents every day are trying to get me 178 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,124 to get out of their house, pick it up and ship it. 179 00:09:18,163 --> 00:09:22,888 So, um man, I wish it was, you know, mantles and and, uh, uh 180 00:09:23,168 --> 00:09:24,509 and actually valuable stuff. 181 00:09:24,509 --> 00:09:28,013 But yeah, no, it was just a ton of fun and you know, as I said, 182 00:09:28,013 --> 00:09:30,534 it taught me a lot about buying and selling, kind of the early 183 00:09:30,575 --> 00:09:32,517 days of e-commerce. 184 00:09:37,019 --> 00:09:37,822 Speaker 1: And it was also something that you had a 185 00:09:37,841 --> 00:09:38,263 personal interest in. 186 00:09:38,263 --> 00:09:38,563 It sounds like. 187 00:09:38,563 --> 00:09:40,269 I mean, I remember we had a baseball card shop four or five 188 00:09:40,308 --> 00:09:44,948 blocks from my house and they had the cards behind glass and 189 00:09:44,970 --> 00:09:47,083 then you had all the packs that you could buy and there was a 190 00:09:47,183 --> 00:09:51,041 wade boggs card that I didn't really like wade boggs, but for 191 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,350 some reason this card just spoke to me every time I walked in 192 00:09:55,293 --> 00:10:00,046 and I never quite was able to have the self-control to save up 193 00:10:00,046 --> 00:10:01,528 and buy the card. 194 00:10:01,528 --> 00:10:03,931 I would always get 75 cents and I would go, you know, buy a 195 00:10:03,894 --> 00:10:05,662 pack and then the next week I'd spend, get 75 cents and I would 196 00:10:05,625 --> 00:10:07,500 go buy a pack and then the next week I'd spend another 75 cents, 197 00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:10,570 and so I never saved the I think it was $12, if memory 198 00:10:10,610 --> 00:10:13,682 serves and so the Wade Boggs card got away. 199 00:10:16,967 --> 00:10:21,554 But there's a nostalgic part of that and a personal interest 200 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:25,850 that also, I'm sure, fueled some of the business interest part 201 00:10:25,890 --> 00:10:26,030 of it. 202 00:10:26,030 --> 00:10:29,489 And just figuring out, can I actually make money hustling and 203 00:10:29,489 --> 00:10:31,634 , you know, being scrappy with this? 204 00:10:31,634 --> 00:10:38,313 That is the fertile ground for an entrepreneur later in life, 205 00:10:38,333 --> 00:10:40,259 like a full-blown entrepreneur later in life. 206 00:10:40,259 --> 00:10:41,980 But you didn't go that route. 207 00:10:41,980 --> 00:10:47,881 You went career-wise for quite a while and you had experiences 208 00:10:48,182 --> 00:10:52,606 on the brand side, on the advisory side, before ever 209 00:10:52,687 --> 00:10:54,129 deciding to do your own thing. 210 00:10:54,129 --> 00:10:59,193 All in thing, all in, can we unpack a little bit of the e-com 211 00:10:59,193 --> 00:11:01,836 and the brand side of your background too? 212 00:11:01,836 --> 00:11:09,342 Because I think there's a connection for a lot of our 213 00:11:09,363 --> 00:11:10,666 founder listeners in today's world of how to leverage your 214 00:11:10,686 --> 00:11:13,331 insights being on the brand side and working on the brand side? 215 00:11:13,331 --> 00:11:17,123 That could really help some of our listeners. 216 00:11:17,802 --> 00:11:20,365 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely Nate . 217 00:11:20,365 --> 00:11:23,687 So, if we fast forward a little bit, I know I sort of alluded 218 00:11:23,707 --> 00:11:27,490 to this earlier, but I went to college in Montreal in Canada, 219 00:11:28,571 --> 00:11:30,653 moved to New York after college, spent a couple of years at a 220 00:11:30,692 --> 00:11:35,035 hedge fund and then, in 2009, I joined what became the first 221 00:11:35,076 --> 00:11:35,416 startup. 222 00:11:35,416 --> 00:11:39,484 I was a part of a company that many of your listeners are 223 00:11:39,524 --> 00:11:42,990 probably familiar with, rent the Runway, a women's dress rental 224 00:11:43,010 --> 00:11:43,331 business. 225 00:11:43,331 --> 00:11:48,489 It's now a public company and, yeah, joined them two weeks into 226 00:11:48,489 --> 00:11:49,049 that business. 227 00:11:49,049 --> 00:11:53,450 So I was employee I believe five, you know, five or six, you 228 00:11:53,450 --> 00:11:56,466 know an early employee, their first ops hire. 229 00:11:56,466 --> 00:12:01,380 I had, no, I mean, besides my sports car business doing some 230 00:12:01,421 --> 00:12:04,808 fulfillment, I never had any like professional at scale 231 00:12:05,370 --> 00:12:06,613 operations experience. 232 00:12:06,613 --> 00:12:09,686 I think I got a C in my operations management course in 233 00:12:09,725 --> 00:12:10,147 college. 234 00:12:11,028 --> 00:12:16,229 Um, uh, don't tell anyone that Um, but uh, uh, yeah. 235 00:12:16,229 --> 00:12:19,158 So I, you know, joined Rent the Runway, um, running their 236 00:12:19,198 --> 00:12:20,264 warehouse operations. 237 00:12:20,264 --> 00:12:23,159 Um, you know, couldn't even spell FedEx at the time, right 238 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:23,681 Like it was. 239 00:12:23,681 --> 00:12:27,591 It was all very new to me, but, um, you know, I, I, I was able 240 00:12:27,610 --> 00:12:30,546 to sort of figure it out and you know, uh, being fungible was, 241 00:12:31,268 --> 00:12:38,283 continues to be, a skillset that I, you know really pride myself 242 00:12:38,283 --> 00:12:42,126 in Um and brand experience, and then you know parlaying that 243 00:12:42,187 --> 00:12:42,648 into. 244 00:12:42,648 --> 00:12:48,351 You know the experiences that I have today or the. 245 00:12:48,351 --> 00:12:51,794 You know whether it's my own business or you know some of the 246 00:12:51,794 --> 00:13:01,200 advisory work I do, some of the investing that I do in in, you 247 00:13:01,220 --> 00:13:01,480 know, startups. 248 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:02,663 It's all been made better because I've been able to bring 249 00:13:02,683 --> 00:13:04,587 these different cohorts together with the experiences that I've 250 00:13:04,628 --> 00:13:04,847 had. 251 00:13:04,948 --> 00:13:08,724 So I spent a couple of years at Rent the Runway and then joined 252 00:13:08,744 --> 00:13:13,432 Birchbox, also on the brand side as their first full-time 253 00:13:13,472 --> 00:13:16,625 employee, naturally, their first ops hire as well. 254 00:13:16,625 --> 00:13:19,793 We were a little bit older when I joined. 255 00:13:19,793 --> 00:13:22,849 We were two months into the business, not two weeks into the 256 00:13:22,849 --> 00:13:23,190 business. 257 00:13:23,190 --> 00:13:25,044 Way less risky that way. 258 00:13:25,044 --> 00:13:27,905 Oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah, I was able to curtail much of the 259 00:13:27,966 --> 00:13:28,427 risks there. 260 00:13:28,427 --> 00:13:32,562 Um, we're laughing, Um, but uh, yeah, we were. 261 00:13:32,562 --> 00:13:36,809 We were, uh, shipping about 500 monthly orders uh when I, when 262 00:13:36,830 --> 00:13:41,221 I joined the business so still very, very small and when I left 263 00:13:41,221 --> 00:13:46,552 four years later, in 2014, we were shipping about a million 264 00:13:46,591 --> 00:13:49,993 orders a month and we were operating in five countries 265 00:13:50,898 --> 00:13:51,159 globally. 266 00:13:51,159 --> 00:13:55,077 So it became a really large supply chain, a really large 267 00:13:55,158 --> 00:13:56,972 operation, and I was fortunate to have responsibilities in 268 00:13:56,919 --> 00:13:58,059 managing that global supply chain a really large operation 269 00:13:58,006 --> 00:13:58,806 and I was fortunate to have responsibilities of managing 270 00:13:58,753 --> 00:14:00,195 that global supply chain. 271 00:14:02,296 --> 00:14:05,697 Speaker 1: So then you go through the experience of ops 272 00:14:06,437 --> 00:14:10,562 being a brand, and then let's now fast forward to what you're 273 00:14:10,602 --> 00:14:14,773 actually building today, which is a service for those brands, 274 00:14:14,873 --> 00:14:18,149 but you're the service provider now, so tell us about third 275 00:14:18,188 --> 00:14:18,470 person. 276 00:14:25,559 --> 00:14:25,921 Speaker 2: Sure, yeah. 277 00:14:25,921 --> 00:14:27,283 So you know kind of some of the origin there Nate is. 278 00:14:27,283 --> 00:14:28,626 You know, after spending a few years in San Francisco at a 279 00:14:28,667 --> 00:14:31,860 logistics startup called Ship, in 2017, I started a consulting 280 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:35,548 business called Second Marathon, which was effectively a 281 00:14:36,028 --> 00:14:39,524 fractional supply chain or operations consultancy. 282 00:14:39,524 --> 00:14:42,885 So helping you know emerging and high growth brands you know, 283 00:14:42,885 --> 00:14:46,581 mostly e-commerce brands really solve or avoid a lot of the 284 00:14:46,621 --> 00:14:49,409 same pitfalls that I faced when I was in-house as an operator. 285 00:14:49,409 --> 00:14:52,509 So that was anything from helping brands negotiate their 286 00:14:52,548 --> 00:14:56,301 shipping rates, helping them find a new fulfillment partner, 287 00:14:56,341 --> 00:15:00,712 a 3PL, helping them refine their own warehouse, packaging, 288 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:02,105 procurement, all that good stuff . 289 00:15:02,105 --> 00:15:09,029 And then in 2020-ish, when COVID came around, our business 290 00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:12,123 was fortunately well-positioned, kind of being at the crossroads 291 00:15:12,123 --> 00:15:18,206 of e-commerce and logistics two good kind of markets there and 292 00:15:18,467 --> 00:15:20,741 what we saw was that the number one service the brands were 293 00:15:20,802 --> 00:15:23,869 coming to us seeking support with was helping them find a new 294 00:15:23,869 --> 00:15:24,471 3PL. 295 00:15:24,471 --> 00:15:28,109 So you know, long story short, we decided to kind of sunset a 296 00:15:28,129 --> 00:15:32,409 lot of the fractional work that we were doing you know, 297 00:15:33,211 --> 00:15:36,221 fractional operations work and really kind of dialing in into 298 00:15:36,260 --> 00:15:40,249 this one service in particular, essentially leading 3PL RFPs or 299 00:15:40,269 --> 00:15:40,730 searches. 300 00:15:40,730 --> 00:15:44,878 So, uh, did that um successfully for a few years and 301 00:15:44,878 --> 00:15:49,150 then again had this epiphany and said, well, this is just 302 00:15:49,211 --> 00:15:52,360 kind of a boring old consulting business, right, not very 303 00:15:52,421 --> 00:15:52,981 scalable. 304 00:15:52,981 --> 00:15:53,504 Fun. 305 00:15:53,504 --> 00:15:56,912 It can be, you know, financially lucrative Um, you 306 00:15:56,932 --> 00:15:57,961 get what you put into it. 307 00:15:57,961 --> 00:16:02,620 But, um, I want to to like help many more brands, right, like 308 00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:05,342 the challenge of consulting businesses for those of us on, 309 00:16:05,702 --> 00:16:08,585 you know, listening to this, who are doing that today or have 310 00:16:08,625 --> 00:16:12,089 done that, you know, you know that you know you sort of cap 311 00:16:12,188 --> 00:16:15,250 out on the number of brands or clients you can take on in a 312 00:16:15,291 --> 00:16:16,172 given month or year. 313 00:16:16,172 --> 00:16:22,621 So, in March of 2024, a little over a year ago, about a year 314 00:16:22,642 --> 00:16:27,057 and a half ago launched this new business, third Person, which 315 00:16:27,118 --> 00:16:30,164 is effectively a platform, an AI-powered platform that helps 316 00:16:30,947 --> 00:16:33,231 brands discover and connect with 3PLs. 317 00:16:33,832 --> 00:16:36,504 So the way I kind of explain it, I know all our listeners, all 318 00:16:36,544 --> 00:16:39,772 our listeners are are, uh, you know, know what a 3PL is? 319 00:16:39,772 --> 00:16:42,297 Uh, after all, it is called the bootstrapper, the 320 00:16:42,317 --> 00:16:43,500 bootstrapper's guide to logistics. 321 00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:46,548 But you know the way I sort of, you know, explain it to my 322 00:16:46,628 --> 00:16:48,740 mother, who doesn't know so much about logistics. 323 00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:51,364 And 3PL is, I, you know, I say it's kind of like a dating app 324 00:16:51,865 --> 00:16:54,628 for brands looking to find a fulfillment partner, um, which 325 00:16:54,648 --> 00:16:56,990 still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to my mother, but, um, 326 00:16:57,171 --> 00:16:58,873 you all. 327 00:16:58,873 --> 00:17:02,744 So, uh, you know it's kind of like a tinder or bumble for 328 00:17:02,783 --> 00:17:04,990 brands come, you know, completely free for brands to 329 00:17:05,130 --> 00:17:07,405 use, doesn't cost them a nickel, no credit card, none of that 330 00:17:07,826 --> 00:17:10,403 takes a few minutes to share a little bit of information on 331 00:17:10,442 --> 00:17:10,964 your brand. 332 00:17:10,964 --> 00:17:15,538 You know a number of orders a month and skew count and sales 333 00:17:15,979 --> 00:17:18,536 channels and integrations need, kind of all that kind of you 334 00:17:18,556 --> 00:17:21,208 know baseline information that you would need to start to 335 00:17:21,269 --> 00:17:23,237 understand a brand's profile. 336 00:17:23,659 --> 00:17:26,265 And then what we've built is this algorithm that essentially 337 00:17:26,346 --> 00:17:30,963 scores you know Nate's hot sauce company against each of the 338 00:17:31,003 --> 00:17:34,852 three PLs on our platform and we've got about 300 different 339 00:17:34,872 --> 00:17:38,307 three PLs who have each opted in , who've shared information 340 00:17:38,367 --> 00:17:41,144 about themselves, essentially their ICPs, you know their ideal 341 00:17:41,144 --> 00:17:42,047 client profiles. 342 00:17:42,047 --> 00:17:45,843 Our algorithm takes a few seconds to run and then we 343 00:17:45,883 --> 00:17:48,189 present the top 10 matches ranked by score. 344 00:17:48,189 --> 00:17:53,266 So it'll say you know Matt's 3PL in Nashville is a 97% match, 345 00:17:53,266 --> 00:17:57,720 you know Sally's 3PL in Minneapolis is a 93% match, and 346 00:17:57,659 --> 00:17:58,095 so on down the list. 347 00:17:58,095 --> 00:17:58,519 And then the brand, and only the brand, can see the 3PLs 3PL 348 00:17:58,458 --> 00:17:58,840 in Minneapolis is a 93% match and so on down the list. 349 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,871 And then the brand, and only the brand, can see the 3PLs. 350 00:18:02,871 --> 00:18:06,027 3pls can't see you, but you can see the 3PLs because we want 351 00:18:06,146 --> 00:18:08,913 some level of confidentiality there or anonymity. 352 00:18:09,721 --> 00:18:12,105 And then Nate's Candle Company, or I think I said Hot Sauce 353 00:18:12,145 --> 00:18:15,973 Company, can then connect directly with any of those 3PLs. 354 00:18:15,973 --> 00:18:17,085 You can reach out to all 10. 355 00:18:17,085 --> 00:18:18,425 You can reach out to none of them. 356 00:18:18,425 --> 00:18:21,410 You can reach out to all 10. 357 00:18:21,410 --> 00:18:22,516 You can reach out to none of them. 358 00:18:22,516 --> 00:18:23,240 You can reach out to four of them. 359 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:24,829 You send them a message directly on the platform, like 360 00:18:24,849 --> 00:18:27,884 you would message an Airbnb host or an eBay seller, and then the 361 00:18:27,884 --> 00:18:30,575 two of you, the brand and the 3PL kind of go about your sales 362 00:18:30,615 --> 00:18:30,940 process. 363 00:18:30,940 --> 00:18:34,089 So really focused on discovery and connection. 364 00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:39,508 Speaker 1: What is it about finding a fulfillment 3PL that 365 00:18:39,627 --> 00:18:44,402 is so hard for brands versus, you know, truckload services or 366 00:18:44,542 --> 00:18:49,452 LTL or air freight or some other more I'm leading the witness 367 00:18:49,492 --> 00:18:54,150 here more standardized services, but why do brands struggle so 368 00:18:54,190 --> 00:18:55,653 hard to find the right one? 369 00:18:56,039 --> 00:18:58,488 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that's you know, know, you did, 370 00:18:58,488 --> 00:19:00,875 uh, you know, lead the witness, but it's, but it's the truth, 371 00:19:00,935 --> 00:19:03,904 right, like and uh, you know I don't want this to come across 372 00:19:04,205 --> 00:19:08,480 um, uh, uh, you know, as a, as a pejorative or like dismissive, 373 00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:12,864 but like, the trucking market is much more commoditized, right, 374 00:19:13,584 --> 00:19:16,185 I mean it is, it is, it is transactional and you know, I 375 00:19:16,226 --> 00:19:18,928 probably have freight broker friends who would, you know, 376 00:19:18,989 --> 00:19:19,909 kill me for saying that. 377 00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:24,252 But like it mostly is, it mostly is right, I need someone 378 00:19:24,272 --> 00:19:29,596 to bring this freight from, you know, long Beach to Reno, nevada 379 00:19:29,596 --> 00:19:33,080 , right, and like, I'm just looking for low cost, right, 380 00:19:33,101 --> 00:19:37,746 whereas, you know, certainly I'm biased, but I think there's a 381 00:19:37,786 --> 00:19:39,508 lot of truth to my bias. 382 00:19:39,508 --> 00:19:42,151 The relationship between a brand and a 3PL is like a 383 00:19:42,211 --> 00:19:42,570 marriage. 384 00:19:42,570 --> 00:19:51,560 It is such an important relationship and the market is 385 00:19:51,580 --> 00:19:52,865 incredibly fragmented, similar to the trucking market, where 386 00:19:52,885 --> 00:19:54,952 there's literally thousands, thousands and thousands. 387 00:19:54,952 --> 00:20:00,258 Conservatively, there's over 10,000 fulfillment 3PLs in the 388 00:20:00,317 --> 00:20:01,300 United States alone. 389 00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:04,046 Right, and most are highly undiscoverable. 390 00:20:04,046 --> 00:20:08,582 Right, you know most you cannot discover on Google because 391 00:20:08,602 --> 00:20:12,191 they're small, kind of single facility, mom and pop, you know, 392 00:20:12,191 --> 00:20:16,285 husband wife businesses, really good businesses, but small. 393 00:20:16,285 --> 00:20:19,028 They don't have the marketing coffers that some of the larger, 394 00:20:19,028 --> 00:20:21,932 you know, venture backed and private equity backed players do 395 00:20:21,932 --> 00:20:26,926 have and it's such an important decision because of the amount 396 00:20:26,946 --> 00:20:30,060 of community, the daily communication that's required 397 00:20:30,121 --> 00:20:33,710 that fortunately for me and my business, but unfortunately for 398 00:20:33,730 --> 00:20:38,346 the market brands are really poor at discovering the right 399 00:20:38,366 --> 00:20:39,128 3PL right. 400 00:20:39,169 --> 00:20:42,604 The most common way is, you know , by Googling or, you know, I 401 00:20:42,624 --> 00:20:46,771 guess, increasingly on GPT and other AI tools. 402 00:20:46,771 --> 00:20:50,586 But you know, the most common question a brand would ask is 403 00:20:50,625 --> 00:20:54,946 like hey, nate, I saw that Nate's hot sauce companies are, 404 00:20:54,967 --> 00:20:56,069 you know, working with a 3PL. 405 00:20:56,069 --> 00:20:56,672 Who is it? 406 00:20:56,672 --> 00:20:59,519 And you tell me, oh, it's Matt's 3PL in Nashville. 407 00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:01,507 And I say, great, I'm going to work with Matt's 3PL in 408 00:21:01,548 --> 00:21:01,909 Nashville. 409 00:21:01,909 --> 00:21:07,288 Meanwhile, nate's got a 20 SKU hot sauce company and Matt's got 410 00:21:07,288 --> 00:21:11,079 a 5,000 SKU apparel company with high returns, right Like 411 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,987 very and you know I'm doing 10,000 orders a month and Nate's 412 00:21:13,987 --> 00:21:18,248 doing 500 orders a month right Like very different profiles. 413 00:21:18,248 --> 00:21:22,351 Nate's doing 500 orders a month , right Like very different 414 00:21:22,391 --> 00:21:22,813 profiles. 415 00:21:22,813 --> 00:21:28,863 And unfortunately, 3pls often say yes to new business, yes, 416 00:21:28,903 --> 00:21:30,327 yes, yes, and don't really vet the opportunities correctly. 417 00:21:30,327 --> 00:21:31,772 So that's what we're trying to do with third person is really 418 00:21:31,853 --> 00:21:36,007 help qualify brands in 3PL such that the moment you connect with 419 00:21:36,007 --> 00:21:39,903 a 3PL because the score is very high you have a high level of 420 00:21:39,983 --> 00:21:41,710 confidence that it's going to be a good fit. 421 00:21:42,901 --> 00:21:43,842 Speaker 1: This is also a. 422 00:21:44,884 --> 00:21:50,313 I love the topic of brand identities and how five 423 00:21:50,373 --> 00:21:54,362 companies can make a fairly similar product at the end of 424 00:21:54,382 --> 00:21:59,805 the day, but the brand and the story behind those products in 425 00:21:59,845 --> 00:22:03,307 today's world and the narrative that gets built around it is 426 00:22:03,907 --> 00:22:06,630 often the differentiator consumers and you've built some 427 00:22:06,769 --> 00:22:11,132 kind of community or shared identity with your customers. 428 00:22:11,132 --> 00:22:24,990 There's a stickiness to that, and that is really the product 429 00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:30,165 and the revenue side, and you see a lot of brands invest very 430 00:22:30,326 --> 00:22:35,275 heavily in that and creating this perception, and yet when 431 00:22:35,295 --> 00:22:38,182 they go out and build their operation side of the business, 432 00:22:38,884 --> 00:22:42,588 they struggle sometimes because they may be stronger at the 433 00:22:42,628 --> 00:22:45,853 creative side and the product development side or marketing 434 00:22:46,252 --> 00:22:48,796 than they are at physical ops. 435 00:22:48,796 --> 00:22:53,204 And when they partner with the wrong 3PL, there can be a 436 00:22:53,724 --> 00:22:56,868 misalignment of the brand versus the execution. 437 00:22:56,868 --> 00:23:03,060 And so I guess I'm curious as you build out your product 438 00:23:03,161 --> 00:23:10,175 further and further, do you seek out certain types of brands 439 00:23:10,256 --> 00:23:14,362 that value that alignment between their brand and the ops, 440 00:23:14,362 --> 00:23:17,805 or is that not something that you think about at all as being 441 00:23:17,904 --> 00:23:18,365 necessary? 442 00:23:18,425 --> 00:23:23,230 Speaker 2: yet yeah, it's not something I focus too much on 443 00:23:23,289 --> 00:23:23,990 just yet, nate. 444 00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:26,313 I mean again, like I said earlier, we're still a young 445 00:23:26,373 --> 00:23:34,982 business, so still trying to understand what our ICP is right 446 00:23:34,982 --> 00:23:37,653 Like who gets the most value, both on the 3PL side and the 447 00:23:37,673 --> 00:23:37,955 brand side. 448 00:23:37,955 --> 00:23:41,424 I think I mentioned this earlier, but one of the reasons 449 00:23:41,444 --> 00:23:42,611 why we wanted to launch this business and make it free for 450 00:23:42,631 --> 00:23:45,461 brands is so that we can support many more brands that, unlike 451 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:46,603 our consulting business. 452 00:23:46,603 --> 00:23:51,413 You know we were charging brands fees, right, and you know 453 00:23:51,413 --> 00:23:51,901 I thought they. 454 00:23:51,901 --> 00:23:55,130 You know I think they're very fair fees, but you know it's a 455 00:23:55,170 --> 00:23:59,169 lot of money and that smaller brand cannot afford to pay 10K 456 00:23:59,250 --> 00:24:03,646 or 25K for an engagement, even if it's great value that I was 457 00:24:03,707 --> 00:24:04,228 providing. 458 00:24:04,308 --> 00:24:08,924 So, by nature of free, it's somewhat self-selective in that 459 00:24:08,964 --> 00:24:12,582 we tend to get smaller brands come into third person than who 460 00:24:12,642 --> 00:24:15,128 came seeking our consulting support. 461 00:24:15,128 --> 00:24:18,878 But we've definitely seen, you know, brands shipping in excess 462 00:24:18,939 --> 00:24:20,664 of hundreds of thousands of orders a month. 463 00:24:20,664 --> 00:24:25,200 So we really have across the gamut, because it doesn't matter 464 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:25,903 whether you're that. 465 00:24:25,903 --> 00:24:30,038 You know I have friends who are , you know, operations leaders 466 00:24:30,098 --> 00:24:33,688 at billion dollar businesses and friends who are just starting a 467 00:24:33,688 --> 00:24:35,901 new business, you know, who are pre-launch, and everyone has 468 00:24:35,941 --> 00:24:38,869 the same problems of like who is the best 3pl? 469 00:24:38,869 --> 00:24:39,873 For me it's just. 470 00:24:39,893 --> 00:24:41,897 Speaker 1: The scale of that problem is obviously different 471 00:24:41,917 --> 00:24:45,486 depending on where you are what's your favorite part right 472 00:24:45,605 --> 00:24:49,273 now about building a company at this particular stage? 473 00:24:51,243 --> 00:24:52,748 Speaker 2: uh, yeah, it's um. 474 00:24:52,748 --> 00:24:57,217 So this is the first company that I've been a part of that is 475 00:24:57,217 --> 00:25:01,813 , you know, truly a software business, and sorry, when I say 476 00:25:01,833 --> 00:25:04,560 a part of that, you know I'm leading, or, you know, employed 477 00:25:04,601 --> 00:25:04,981 by right. 478 00:25:04,981 --> 00:25:08,518 You know I've invested in a couple personally, but you know 479 00:25:08,617 --> 00:25:10,971 advise a couple that are more software plays, but this is the 480 00:25:11,010 --> 00:25:15,734 first that I have significant interest in and it's been fun to 481 00:25:15,734 --> 00:25:16,798 build a product right. 482 00:25:16,798 --> 00:25:50,191 It's hard, no-transcript, I mean. 483 00:25:50,191 --> 00:25:53,558 You know we're only, at this moment in time, about 16 months 484 00:25:53,759 --> 00:25:57,015 old or 16 months young, and we've supported about 1000 485 00:25:57,055 --> 00:25:59,852 brands on their journey of finding a 3PL. 486 00:26:00,555 --> 00:26:03,025 In the last seven years of my consulting business, I think I 487 00:26:03,065 --> 00:26:07,195 probably worked with 150 brands, right, so it's not perfectly 488 00:26:07,257 --> 00:26:10,550 apples to apples, right, but you know the point is, is that, 489 00:26:10,590 --> 00:26:14,519 like building software, you know , that lives on the internet, 490 00:26:15,442 --> 00:26:19,680 right, where you know I woke up this morning and overnight, you 491 00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:22,255 know, I had a couple of brands sign up, you know, while I was 492 00:26:22,295 --> 00:26:22,797 sleeping. 493 00:26:22,797 --> 00:26:26,733 And like doing things right, like clicking on our you know 494 00:26:26,814 --> 00:26:30,522 respective call to actions right , to do this or to do that, like 495 00:26:30,522 --> 00:26:34,506 that's pretty cool, right, and like Matt didn't have to get on 496 00:26:34,546 --> 00:26:35,169 a call with them. 497 00:26:35,169 --> 00:26:37,217 I didn't have to talk to them or send them an email, right. 498 00:26:37,217 --> 00:26:40,209 It's like it's a software product doing its software thing 499 00:26:40,209 --> 00:26:40,349 Right. 500 00:26:40,349 --> 00:26:43,395 Just like you can, you know, book a fare on an airline. 501 00:26:43,395 --> 00:26:46,563 Or you know, book a hotel room on Expedia at any moment in the 502 00:26:46,603 --> 00:26:48,476 day, right, and you don't have to talk to anyone, right. 503 00:26:48,476 --> 00:26:50,512 So that's been really thrilling to see. 504 00:26:50,633 --> 00:26:52,134 And you know we are a lean team. 505 00:26:52,134 --> 00:27:02,958 You know you are you were talking to our only true FTE. 506 00:27:02,958 --> 00:27:04,403 You know full time employee here. 507 00:27:04,403 --> 00:27:08,054 You know I've got a really great team of you know support 508 00:27:08,094 --> 00:27:08,575 around me. 509 00:27:08,575 --> 00:27:13,291 But you know, yeah, we are, we are, we are lean and you know I 510 00:27:13,311 --> 00:27:16,538 have this vision of you know where I want to be and you know, 511 00:27:16,538 --> 00:27:19,530 every day it's sort of a struggle that we can't get there 512 00:27:19,530 --> 00:27:21,174 tomorrow, right? 513 00:27:21,174 --> 00:27:24,442 So you know whether that's just you know my mantra of kind of 514 00:27:24,490 --> 00:27:27,076 staying focused and, like you know, building out a really 515 00:27:27,136 --> 00:27:30,192 great first product and not letting others in the market who 516 00:27:30,192 --> 00:27:34,422 are doing certain things, you know, conflate where we need to 517 00:27:34,461 --> 00:27:34,663 be. 518 00:27:34,663 --> 00:27:38,275 But yeah, it's been a lot of fun and excited to see where we 519 00:27:38,335 --> 00:27:39,497 are in another 16 months. 520 00:27:40,397 --> 00:27:42,201 Speaker 1: Who do you talk to when you get stuck? 521 00:27:43,702 --> 00:27:44,585 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have that. 522 00:27:44,585 --> 00:27:45,852 Um, that's a great question. 523 00:27:45,852 --> 00:27:49,121 Um, I've got, uh, you know I've been fortunate where I have a 524 00:27:49,161 --> 00:27:49,849 lot of um. 525 00:27:49,849 --> 00:27:54,298 You know friends, peers, mentors, um, who are also 526 00:27:54,357 --> 00:27:58,805 running um, I'll say loosely similar kind of at this stage. 527 00:27:58,805 --> 00:28:01,354 You know early stage kind of bootstrappy. 528 00:28:01,354 --> 00:28:06,932 You know businesses, also in logistics, you know supply chain 529 00:28:06,932 --> 00:28:10,567 , so you know there's a lot of kind of empathy for each other 530 00:28:10,587 --> 00:28:11,530 and kind of what we're doing. 531 00:28:11,530 --> 00:28:14,556 So you know I've got a couple friends there. 532 00:28:15,217 --> 00:28:16,679 I'm also part of a founders group, couple friends there. 533 00:28:16,679 --> 00:28:19,644 I'm also part of a founders group you know, similar to the 534 00:28:19,703 --> 00:28:31,053 one that you run, nate, called Hampton and tends to be more 535 00:28:31,073 --> 00:28:32,217 focused on tech founders than supply chain founders and 536 00:28:32,237 --> 00:28:34,224 there's only maybe half a dozen supply chain founders in the 537 00:28:34,244 --> 00:28:34,506 group. 538 00:28:34,506 --> 00:28:37,492 But you know, every month we have a call with, you know, my 539 00:28:37,554 --> 00:28:40,779 core group, which is about seven or eight of us and you know 540 00:28:40,819 --> 00:28:41,862 just kind of sharing. 541 00:28:41,862 --> 00:28:45,335 You know wins and losses and you know opportunities and it's 542 00:28:45,394 --> 00:28:49,170 been helpful to realize that when you think you're the only 543 00:28:49,290 --> 00:28:52,878 one kind of experiencing a particular problem, whether it's 544 00:28:52,878 --> 00:28:53,619 personnel. 545 00:28:53,619 --> 00:28:56,674 You know financial or cash. 546 00:28:56,674 --> 00:28:58,702 You know product there are, you know everyone else. 547 00:28:58,702 --> 00:28:59,424 Or you know product there are. 548 00:28:59,424 --> 00:29:01,211 You know everyone else or you know there's always someone 549 00:29:01,231 --> 00:29:03,498 who's been there, done that right and you know where you can 550 00:29:03,498 --> 00:29:04,160 learn something. 551 00:29:04,181 --> 00:29:06,335 Speaker 1: So I think just being vulnerable and asking questions 552 00:29:06,335 --> 00:29:13,157 and listening is really helpful the phrase that I like to share 553 00:29:13,157 --> 00:29:16,003 with founders in particular is either you're going into a storm 554 00:29:16,003 --> 00:29:20,333 you're deep in the storm already, or you're coming out of 555 00:29:20,333 --> 00:29:24,821 one, and if you don't like where you are, just wait five 556 00:29:24,882 --> 00:29:25,463 minutes even. 557 00:29:25,829 --> 00:29:28,259 Because you can experience all three of those in the same day, 558 00:29:29,002 --> 00:29:32,672 and the journey of an entrepreneur is unlike anything 559 00:29:32,833 --> 00:29:33,032 else. 560 00:29:33,032 --> 00:29:40,002 There is more variety and volatility, but also more 561 00:29:40,143 --> 00:29:44,733 fulfillment like no pun intended actually of getting to see 562 00:29:44,794 --> 00:29:47,179 something that you imagined come to life. 563 00:29:47,179 --> 00:29:52,511 It's almost like a child that you've created and a different 564 00:29:52,551 --> 00:29:53,894 kind of ownership. 565 00:29:53,894 --> 00:29:57,376 You can still have ownership of results in a career, but it's 566 00:29:57,457 --> 00:30:01,740 somehow different when it's your fingerprints and your name 567 00:30:03,182 --> 00:30:05,683 that's standing behind it, because there ends up being a 568 00:30:05,723 --> 00:30:09,007 sense of personal, healthy personal pride. 569 00:30:09,007 --> 00:30:14,480 So I guess my last question for you is how do you think about 570 00:30:14,519 --> 00:30:15,923 your own identity now? 571 00:30:15,923 --> 00:30:18,295 Do you describe yourself? 572 00:30:18,295 --> 00:30:19,932 I'm an entrepreneur or I'm a founder? 573 00:30:19,932 --> 00:30:20,855 Or are you? 574 00:30:20,855 --> 00:30:23,301 No, I'm, I'm a builder or an ops guy like? 575 00:30:23,301 --> 00:30:27,997 How do you think about yourself today differently than you 576 00:30:28,037 --> 00:30:29,000 might have 10 years ago? 577 00:30:31,992 --> 00:30:35,037 Speaker 2: uh, I think, I think it depends who I'm talking to, 578 00:30:35,096 --> 00:30:36,357 right In, like different circles . 579 00:30:36,357 --> 00:30:39,442 I don't mean that to sound overly kind of tongue in cheek, 580 00:30:39,541 --> 00:30:43,346 but you know, I think there's truth there. 581 00:30:43,346 --> 00:30:49,315 But yeah, I think you know generally, you know, certainly 582 00:30:49,454 --> 00:30:53,579 in, you know, within the cohort of folks that I typically talk 583 00:30:53,599 --> 00:30:58,164 to, which is, you know, logistics founders, you know 584 00:30:58,224 --> 00:31:01,232 logistics leaders, you know maybe even e-commerce leaders, 585 00:31:02,095 --> 00:31:06,768 um is, uh, you know, I don't, I don't label myself as a tech 586 00:31:06,868 --> 00:31:10,556 founder, right, if I'm at a tech dinner here in Nashville, maybe 587 00:31:10,556 --> 00:31:16,851 I do, um, but, yeah, I, I, I, I really consider what we're 588 00:31:16,911 --> 00:31:19,913 building here at third person, uh, to be a connector. 589 00:31:19,913 --> 00:31:25,395 Right, you know, I want to connect people with you know who 590 00:31:25,395 --> 00:31:26,336 are like-minded. 591 00:31:26,336 --> 00:31:29,378 Or, you know buyers with sellers. 592 00:31:29,378 --> 00:31:33,340 You know I'm always trying to bring together the cohorts that 593 00:31:33,461 --> 00:31:36,983 I play deep in, which is, you know, the 3PL market, the 594 00:31:37,064 --> 00:31:39,825 e-commerce market and the logistics tech market. 595 00:31:40,766 --> 00:31:44,347 And you know if I had a nickel, for every time I got a. 596 00:31:44,347 --> 00:31:48,440 You know a DM on whatever social media or Slack message or 597 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,571 a text or an email saying, hey, matt, you know, do you know 598 00:31:51,613 --> 00:31:52,032 this guy? 599 00:31:52,032 --> 00:31:57,220 Or, hey, matt, I'm in the market for an ERP, a 3PL, an OMS 600 00:31:57,220 --> 00:32:01,224 , a shipping carrier, like who's the best one or who should I 601 00:32:01,265 --> 00:32:01,625 talk to? 602 00:32:01,625 --> 00:32:04,998 Right, like what I'm trying to do with third person is not only 603 00:32:04,998 --> 00:32:08,634 helping brands discover the best 3PL, right, I didn't call 604 00:32:08,674 --> 00:32:08,835 this. 605 00:32:08,835 --> 00:32:10,338 Find a warehousecom. 606 00:32:10,338 --> 00:32:12,403 Maybe I should have for SEO. 607 00:32:12,403 --> 00:32:15,530 I'm not a marketing guy either. 608 00:32:15,530 --> 00:32:19,834 I don't know what I am right, but you know I gave it that 609 00:32:19,894 --> 00:32:23,215 fungible name because you know my and vendors, suppliers, can 610 00:32:23,236 --> 00:32:41,891 sort of connect amongst themselves. 611 00:32:41,891 --> 00:32:46,000 Pairing interests and desires is really what I'm trying to do. 612 00:32:46,521 --> 00:32:48,679 Speaker 1: And then and is that the origin of the name, then are 613 00:32:48,679 --> 00:32:51,310 you the third person and you're connecting the first and second 614 00:32:51,310 --> 00:32:51,731 , or how? 615 00:32:53,255 --> 00:32:55,118 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, you know it was sort of a play on 616 00:32:55,159 --> 00:32:58,915 words because you know, my consulting business was second 617 00:32:58,955 --> 00:33:02,667 marathon, kind of like the second journey in my career, the 618 00:33:02,667 --> 00:33:05,126 first being kind of, you know, being employed and working for 619 00:33:05,228 --> 00:33:05,830 others and then. 620 00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:09,060 So I sort of like the second to third, uh component. 621 00:33:09,060 --> 00:33:12,480 I also liked, you know, third person, kind of like 3PL, third 622 00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:16,633 party, Um and then, but then also uh, you know what, what, 623 00:33:16,653 --> 00:33:16,752 what? 624 00:33:16,752 --> 00:33:19,056 What you're sort of suggesting, Nate, is that sort of third 625 00:33:19,096 --> 00:33:21,617 person perspective, right, Like everyone's trying to like ask a 626 00:33:21,657 --> 00:33:24,101 friend, like who is the best, who should I talk to? 627 00:33:24,101 --> 00:33:28,285 Right, and I want, I want to build a platform that helps you 628 00:33:28,685 --> 00:33:29,906 make that smart decision. 629 00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:33,354 Speaker 1: Well, let's go right to your ICP, then. 630 00:33:33,354 --> 00:33:37,083 Who should reach out to you if they need help, and where can 631 00:33:37,103 --> 00:33:37,624 they find you? 632 00:33:38,125 --> 00:33:38,325 Speaker 2: Sure. 633 00:33:38,325 --> 00:33:42,317 So, as I said earlier, we've got about 300 3PLs on the 634 00:33:42,338 --> 00:33:43,945 platform, always looking to bring on more. 635 00:33:43,945 --> 00:33:47,895 We've got single facility 10,000 square foot 3PLs and 636 00:33:47,935 --> 00:33:52,223 we've got the largest global you know, billion dollar 3PLs. 637 00:33:52,223 --> 00:33:55,435 If you're a 3PL, we'd love to have you on our platform. 638 00:33:55,435 --> 00:33:59,963 On the brand side, you know you can be pre-launch, pre-revenue 639 00:34:00,190 --> 00:34:03,037 you know looking at launching your olive oil company in the 640 00:34:03,096 --> 00:34:07,075 fall, or you can be, you know, a billion dollar business, or you 641 00:34:07,075 --> 00:34:09,059 know, doing tens of millions on Shopify. 642 00:34:09,059 --> 00:34:11,699 We'd love for you to take a look at our platform and, given 643 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,170 that we have three PLs that kind of span the gamut whether 644 00:34:14,190 --> 00:34:18,800 you're shipping CBD or alcohol or fresh food or apparel, we've 645 00:34:18,820 --> 00:34:19,702 got someone for you. 646 00:34:19,782 --> 00:34:23,358 So I hate to sound overly cliche , but currently our ICP is 647 00:34:23,398 --> 00:34:27,132 basically anyone looking for a 3PL at any 3PL, looking for new 648 00:34:27,172 --> 00:34:32,302 leads, um, you can find me on on on LinkedIn, um, so you know, 649 00:34:32,583 --> 00:34:34,873 type in my name there Matt Hertz , or maybe it's Matthew. 650 00:34:34,873 --> 00:34:38,460 We're a little bit more formal on LinkedIn, um, but I, I, uh 651 00:34:38,481 --> 00:34:39,923 LinkedIn, but I'm always posting a lot. 652 00:34:39,923 --> 00:34:44,849 I have a newsletter that goes out every week or so, free 653 00:34:45,371 --> 00:34:45,913 newsletter. 654 00:34:45,913 --> 00:34:47,155 So, yeah, find me there. 655 00:34:47,155 --> 00:34:49,019 Go to thirdpersonco, not com. 656 00:34:49,019 --> 00:34:54,737 We were too cheap to buy the M Thirdpersonco. 657 00:34:54,737 --> 00:35:01,992 And yeah, I'd love to connect with anyone, um, you know, to 658 00:35:02,012 --> 00:35:02,893 talk you know logistics and fulfillment. 659 00:35:02,914 --> 00:35:04,235 Speaker 1: Matt, I've enjoyed our conversation. 660 00:35:04,235 --> 00:35:09,951 I could talk and nerd out on operations with you for days. 661 00:35:09,951 --> 00:35:13,940 I'm certain, um, and I just I like your straight down the 662 00:35:14,019 --> 00:35:16,050 middle sort of dry sense of humor. 663 00:35:16,050 --> 00:35:21,431 Um, it speaks to me and, like I always say to every guest, that 664 00:35:21,431 --> 00:35:24,019 we have and I genuinely mean it we are all rooting for you, 665 00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:24,179 matt. 666 00:35:24,829 --> 00:35:25,393 Speaker 2: I appreciate it. 667 00:35:25,393 --> 00:35:26,396 Nate, this has been a lot of fun. 668 00:35:27,150 --> 00:35:31,452 Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing your story, thanks for listening 669 00:35:31,452 --> 00:35:33,800 to another episode of the Bootstrapper's Guide to 670 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,273 Logistics, and a special thank you to our sponsors and the team 671 00:35:37,273 --> 00:35:39,056 behind the scenes who make it all possible. 672 00:35:39,056 --> 00:35:42,563 Be sure to like, follow or subscribe to the podcast to get 673 00:35:42,583 --> 00:35:43,364 the latest updates. 674 00:35:43,364 --> 00:35:46,416 To learn more about the show and connect with the growing 675 00:35:46,458 --> 00:35:49,813 community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounderscom. 676 00:35:49,813 --> 00:35:53,661 And, of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to 677 00:35:53,661 --> 00:35:54,423 share their stories.