WEBVTT 00:00:01.762 --> 00:00:08.134 Hello and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 00:00:08.134 --> 00:00:12.570 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and inspiring others to take the leap. 00:00:13.699 --> 00:00:16.489 It's a roller coaster ride that you might ultimately fail. 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:19.068 That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 00:00:19.068 --> 00:00:20.646 It was very hard. 00:00:20.646 --> 00:00:28.565 It truly is building a legacy the more life you live, the more wisdom you have, Because we are where we're supposed to be. 00:00:28.565 --> 00:00:30.251 Kind of answering the call. 00:00:30.780 --> 00:00:33.207 Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 00:00:33.207 --> 00:00:35.112 I'm your host, Nate Shoots. 00:00:35.112 --> 00:00:38.168 Let's build something together from the ground up. 00:00:38.168 --> 00:00:43.185 Hello everybody, and welcome back to the show. 00:00:43.185 --> 00:00:46.694 For those that can't tell by my accent, I am from the Midwest. 00:00:46.694 --> 00:00:49.526 If you've been listening for any length of time, you figured out. 00:00:49.526 --> 00:00:52.412 It's distinctly Minnesotan and nearly Canadian. 00:00:52.412 --> 00:01:01.673 So I'm really happy this week to get to talk to one of my neighbors to the south, Chris Brewer, who is the CEO of River City Logistics, based in Iowa. 00:01:01.673 --> 00:01:02.956 Chris, do I have an accent? 00:01:05.402 --> 00:01:09.203 I am not from the Midwest and I can pinpoint the Midwest accents. 00:01:09.203 --> 00:01:14.746 I think Minnesotans have a distinct accents and I think folks in Wisconsin have a distinct accent. 00:01:14.847 --> 00:01:17.260 Oh yeah, wisconsin, for sure, that's right, I forget. 00:01:17.260 --> 00:01:18.364 You're from California. 00:01:18.364 --> 00:01:22.742 You moved to the Midwest at some point and now you've got offices around the country a couple of different places. 00:01:23.525 --> 00:01:23.805 Yeah. 00:01:23.805 --> 00:01:27.635 So I moved here to go to college, played baseball. 00:01:27.635 --> 00:01:33.510 I met my wife like the first weekend we were in school and 16 years later, three kids. 00:01:33.510 --> 00:01:34.251 Here we are. 00:01:35.260 --> 00:01:37.367 First week of freshman year of college. 00:01:38.007 --> 00:01:38.228 Yes. 00:01:38.650 --> 00:01:39.090 Tell me more. 00:01:40.599 --> 00:01:41.700 Oh man. 00:01:41.700 --> 00:01:44.864 Well, there's a lot to that story. 00:01:44.864 --> 00:02:09.091 I'll try to keep the specific details out, but I got invited to this house party, mind you, I flew to Iowa, having never visited the campus or the state in California, and coach, uh, coach of a coach, friend of a friend, set my tape to a couple different schools. 00:02:09.091 --> 00:02:14.151 Um, I get a call, they fly out, they watched me throw and they offered a full ride education, and it's pretty hard to say no to that. 00:02:14.151 --> 00:02:18.627 So, uh, say goodbye to all my family, packed up, uh, flew to Iowa. 00:02:18.627 --> 00:02:19.813 Uh, this is a true story. 00:02:19.854 --> 00:02:26.712 When I was flying into Dubuque regional airport, um, I legitimately thought the plane was crashing because I could see nothing but corn. 00:02:26.712 --> 00:02:33.264 I tell that story all the time as a proud Iowan. 00:02:33.264 --> 00:02:34.769 Now I love this place. 00:02:34.769 --> 00:02:42.280 It is the best place for me to be, it fits my character, my culture, it's the best place to raise a family. 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:48.913 But to go back to the original topic, I just had to share that story because when I do share it with people they generally do laugh. 00:02:48.913 --> 00:02:57.173 But a city kid flying into the middle of corn and cornfields everywhere, you could kind of feel my sentiment there. 00:02:57.173 --> 00:02:57.753 Like it was a little. 00:02:57.753 --> 00:02:59.506 I thought we were going down. 00:02:59.506 --> 00:03:02.907 But no, I met my wife the first weekend. 00:03:02.907 --> 00:03:06.401 We didn't date until the following year, we were just friends she. 00:03:06.401 --> 00:03:08.127 She played on the softball team. 00:03:08.127 --> 00:03:16.507 So we we kind of intermingled with friends and stuff for a long time and um kind of gave it a go the next year and we've been together ever since. 00:03:17.381 --> 00:03:18.722 Well, congratulations it's. 00:03:18.722 --> 00:03:21.180 We got a bunch to unpack there already. 00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:23.147 First, glad you made it to the Midwest. 00:03:23.147 --> 00:03:26.941 It's God's country. 00:03:26.941 --> 00:03:27.862 We love it here. 00:03:27.862 --> 00:03:35.500 To be a scholarship athlete requires a whole lot of not only skill but sacrifice and effort. 00:03:35.500 --> 00:03:41.162 That I'm 100% sure is connected to how you run your company and why you chose to start it in the first place. 00:03:41.162 --> 00:03:43.329 So we can certainly unpack that. 00:03:43.329 --> 00:03:53.271 But we can also unpack the family impact of entrepreneurship is not a individual pursuit, it's a whole family endeavor. 00:03:53.271 --> 00:03:57.854 So my first question is how would your kids describe what you do? 00:03:57.854 --> 00:03:59.379 What would they say to other people? 00:03:59.500 --> 00:04:07.765 your job is so my son tells people that I'm a truck driver, which I think is awesome. 00:04:07.765 --> 00:04:21.456 My daughter, she's seven she just says that daddy is the boss of River City and she knows that we have warehousing, asset based operations and brokerage. 00:04:21.456 --> 00:04:28.221 So she at least has the concept down in brokerage. 00:04:28.221 --> 00:04:28.961 So she at least has the concept down. 00:04:28.961 --> 00:04:29.584 The funny thing I travel a lot. 00:04:29.584 --> 00:04:30.786 I'm still very involved in the business development side. 00:04:30.786 --> 00:04:36.567 I travel on average about 120 to 150 days a year, sometimes less, sometimes right at that number. 00:04:36.567 --> 00:04:43.567 But anytime my kids see an airplane in the sky and I'm not home, they tell mom that dad's on the airplane. 00:04:43.567 --> 00:04:46.464 Um, but they're little, they don't know any different, right? 00:04:46.464 --> 00:04:48.392 So I just think that that's really cute. 00:04:48.392 --> 00:04:53.810 Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm a truck driver and then I'm just the boss of river city. 00:04:53.810 --> 00:04:54.812 That's what the kids say. 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:57.627 If you had a seven-year-old who knows the phrase asset based. 00:04:57.627 --> 00:04:58.951 I mean, we're making progress here. 00:05:10.819 --> 00:05:11.100 You got it. 00:05:11.100 --> 00:05:14.569 You got a future head of sales in your house or you know she's going to be running the financials or something one day. 00:05:14.569 --> 00:05:15.310 Yeah, she's super type A. 00:05:15.310 --> 00:05:18.458 Um, she, she's definitely got like the CPA in her, maybe, maybe some form of dentistry or maybe medicine. 00:05:18.458 --> 00:05:21.603 Um, my son, um, he's very much a little bit different than her, a little bit of a rule follower. 00:05:21.603 --> 00:05:23.749 The youngest one is the one you got to look out for. 00:05:23.749 --> 00:05:30.302 So my youngest Sophia she's two She'll tell you exactly what she wants, when she wants it and how she wants it. 00:05:30.302 --> 00:05:35.901 So if I had to pick one of the three to be the future CEO, if and when I step away, it's probably her. 00:05:36.502 --> 00:05:42.233 That's good insights on birth order as future predictor of jobs too. 00:05:42.233 --> 00:05:44.702 I mean, I'm tracking with everything that you're saying there. 00:05:44.702 --> 00:05:47.867 So you've got a freight brokerage. 00:05:47.867 --> 00:05:50.932 Now you do warehousing services. 00:05:50.932 --> 00:05:53.156 You've got around 100 employees or so I believe. 00:05:53.779 --> 00:06:00.927 Yes, Yep 100, give or take between all three entities something like that. 00:06:01.206 --> 00:06:02.288 You didn't start with 100. 00:06:02.288 --> 00:06:21.442 You probably started with far humbler origins, and conventional wisdom financially is get a job, save for retirement, do all of the things, follow the prescribed path for your life as dictated by the powers that be. 00:06:21.442 --> 00:06:26.007 And yet you shared with me that you cashed out part of your 401k just to even get started, which goes against all conventional wisdom. 00:06:26.007 --> 00:06:29.213 Help me unpack for me. 00:06:29.213 --> 00:06:31.055 What was that conversation like? 00:06:31.055 --> 00:06:37.401 And do you remember depositing the check and being like all right, I'm literally risking my future for something that I believe in. 00:06:38.161 --> 00:06:43.267 I remember the 30 to 60 days that kind of preceded that decision. 00:06:43.267 --> 00:06:52.687 I started my career in the space and I worked for two really good organizations, took some time away. 00:06:52.687 --> 00:06:54.353 I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur. 00:06:54.353 --> 00:06:57.107 I didn't know how much time I was going to take away from it. 00:06:57.107 --> 00:06:59.680 It took a little over two, two and a half years. 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:27.600 I was selling packaging materials for, at the time, one of my clients and it was, it was fine, it did well, um, and I came home from work one day and I told my wife at the time, um, my daughter was three months old and I said I quit my job and I cashed into my 401k and I'm going all in and you could have heard a pin drop in that kitchen. 00:07:28.980 --> 00:07:31.543 And I don't say this lightly but like. 00:07:31.543 --> 00:07:39.391 I am incredibly blessed to have married somebody that loves me unconditionally, that supports my dreams and aspirations. 00:07:39.391 --> 00:07:40.151 Who knows that? 00:07:40.151 --> 00:07:45.336 I'm a bit psychotic when it comes to building and specifically building a business? 00:07:45.336 --> 00:07:48.509 But my wife has been my biggest supporter since day one. 00:07:48.509 --> 00:08:05.668 I've shared this a couple of other times, but when I started the business, I knew that I was going to bootstrap it and I knew that I wanted to bootstrap it the whole way through and I drove Lyft and Uber for 15 months before I took a penny out of the business. 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:12.170 So I drove between like 5 and 8 am in the morning and then I worked my freight gig between like 8 and 4. 00:08:12.170 --> 00:08:28.175 And then I drove between like 4 and 8, sometimes 9 or 10 pm and I drove all night on the weekends, sometimes taking operations calls while I've got a couple of drunk college kids in the back of my Honda operations calls while I've got a couple of drunk college kids in the back of my Honda. 00:08:28.175 --> 00:08:34.989 So I did that for 15 months and it really afforded me the ability to be able to hire people a lot quicker and I didn't take a lot of money out. 00:08:34.989 --> 00:08:37.234 I didn't pay myself anything the first year. 00:08:37.234 --> 00:08:46.230 I didn't pay myself very well the first, probably three or four years, but that allowed me to reinvest all the capital back into the business and then start to build out the team. 00:08:47.234 --> 00:08:52.385 So that ability to delay gratification is also another huge predictor of success. 00:08:52.385 --> 00:09:02.905 If you can put the work in for no short-term gain, knowing that there is a long-term payoff, potentially if things go well, is rare. 00:09:02.905 --> 00:09:07.727 I mean, it sounds like a simple phenomenon, but if it were simple, we wouldn't have credit cards. 00:09:07.727 --> 00:09:08.591 They wouldn't exist. 00:09:08.591 --> 00:09:12.745 As a basic example, people would only be able to pay for things with the money that they had. 00:09:12.745 --> 00:09:19.951 Um, have you always been financially responsible that way, or were you taught that? 00:09:21.280 --> 00:09:24.567 I would say I have always been financially responsible. 00:09:24.567 --> 00:09:27.714 So my dad was also an entrepreneur. 00:09:27.714 --> 00:09:29.663 He was in the jewelry business. 00:09:29.663 --> 00:09:48.280 He forced me I say forced because early on it was forced as I got into high school I actually really enjoyed going to the jewelry shop and so I worked around his clients and his clientele cleaning jewelry, doing simple stuff, running repairs around town. 00:09:48.280 --> 00:10:07.429 But he taught me how to be financially responsible and he taught me the ability to really look way beyond today, tomorrow, the next week, the next month, and I think that all those lessons when I was a lot younger completely translated to my entrepreneurial journey. 00:10:08.272 --> 00:10:23.360 And I remember when I hired the first major executive hire we made outside of myself and my partner and one of his questions was like, hey, I need to make sure you're financially sound, and at this time we only had about 18 employees. 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:31.253 We were doing roughly $40 million a year in annual revenue and we this time we only had about 18 employees, we were doing roughly $40 million a year in annual revenue and we sat down and went over the finances and he goes. 00:10:31.253 --> 00:10:42.946 That's kind of impressive and I'd never forget that because at this point in time we were kind of in a bit of a dungeon for an office, getting ready to move into what is now our really nice space in beautiful downtown Dubuque. 00:10:42.946 --> 00:10:48.327 But I say this jokingly like I'm surprised, he even took the interview when I brought him into our office. 00:10:48.327 --> 00:10:58.971 He was an insurance director, a recruiting director for a large insurance firm in Chicago, had a really nice office, did really well there and I was able to bring him to small town Iowa. 00:10:58.971 --> 00:11:07.133 But yeah, that kind of takes me back to one of our core memories was like I'll never forget him. 00:11:07.133 --> 00:11:09.085 Looking at me he's like okay, yeah, you're definitely. 00:11:09.085 --> 00:11:10.308 You know what you're doing with your money. 00:11:10.308 --> 00:11:11.424 All this makes sense now. 00:11:12.961 --> 00:11:19.573 Well, and that's a testament to your father and also to your own values as well. 00:11:19.573 --> 00:11:27.634 I mean, there's a lot of easier ways to make money than freight brokerage and easier ways to do it than bootstrapping it. 00:11:27.634 --> 00:11:35.633 But I'm also just picturing the jewelry store too, getting to watch your dad and other grownups interact with clients. 00:11:35.633 --> 00:11:43.293 Yes, and the customer service element and how you have to listen because you're selling a high-end piece of jewelry to a specific clientele. 00:11:43.293 --> 00:11:43.674 Did that shape? 00:11:43.674 --> 00:11:45.678 I know you're selling a high-end piece of jewelry to a specific clientele. 00:11:45.678 --> 00:11:46.259 Did that shape? 00:11:46.259 --> 00:11:49.470 I know you're very effective at sales. 00:11:49.470 --> 00:11:52.491 Is that embedded in there somewhere too? 00:11:53.296 --> 00:11:53.960 100%. 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:58.030 I remember my first real memory of being in the shop. 00:11:58.030 --> 00:12:03.893 Obviously, christmas season is the fourth quarter is always busy in the jewelry business right? 00:12:03.893 --> 00:12:22.125 You go and get your wife a pair of earrings or a nice tennis bracelet or a necklace or whatever the case might be, and so my dad taught me from about eight or nine how to shake somebody's hand the right way, how to look them in the eye, how to say their name once out loud and three times in your head, and you'll never forget it. 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:38.687 That's something that, like I will never forget where I was when he taught me some of those things, and that is absolutely translated into how I carry myself, not only as a leader but as somebody who I would consider myself a very effective salesperson. 00:12:38.687 --> 00:12:41.389 But it's authentic, it's genuine. 00:12:41.389 --> 00:12:43.287 There's nothing fake about it. 00:12:43.287 --> 00:12:45.004 That's just kind of my style. 00:12:45.004 --> 00:12:47.546 Who you see today is who you get tomorrow. 00:12:47.546 --> 00:12:52.384 I've had the pleasure of meeting on several different occasions and I think I've been the same person every time. 00:12:52.384 --> 00:12:58.970 I think that's what makes me unique to myself, maybe not unique to everyone else, but at least unique to me. 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:01.462 You are a sincere person, chris. 00:13:01.462 --> 00:13:03.404 That's one of the things that I appreciate about you. 00:13:03.404 --> 00:13:10.875 I mean, when we met a couple of years ago at the Bitfreighter golf event, we had an hour-long conversation. 00:13:10.875 --> 00:13:21.025 At the end of the event it was probably 10 or 11 o'clock at night just sitting out on a patio having a beer, and I walked away and I thought, man, I could have kept talking to him for two more hours, because what you see is what you get. 00:13:21.046 --> 00:13:42.682 There isn't any fake polish or you were also interested in me and what I had to say, and so to be able to have a dialogue and not just somebody talking at you for ever is engaging, and getting to see you again just a few months ago at the event again this year was great. 00:13:43.082 --> 00:13:45.368 I also know you're the title sponsor. 00:13:45.368 --> 00:13:49.640 Now, of course, there's a commercial element to being a title sponsor of any kind of event. 00:13:49.640 --> 00:13:52.144 You get reward and benefit from that. 00:13:52.144 --> 00:13:57.664 But this is also a charity event and nobody listening knows this. 00:13:57.664 --> 00:14:07.957 But I am also aware that you won the tournament in terms of golf and then you donated the prize that you won from the golf tournament back to the ALS society. 00:14:07.957 --> 00:14:11.841 So, aside from just being sincere and I'm not just trying to flatter you, chris. 00:14:11.841 --> 00:14:35.691 Having spent time with you, I'm acknowledging part of what I believe makes you special and effective as an entrepreneur, and those aren't skills, they're characteristics, they're traits of a person, and to be effective over the long term in business, you have to build a reputation that is real. 00:14:35.691 --> 00:14:39.566 Otherwise we're pretty good at sniffing out BS. 00:14:41.177 --> 00:14:53.559 I would say so, part of my reason for being is it's not self self gratification, it's how do I bring as many good people along this journey with me? 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:55.845 Like, that is my. 00:14:55.845 --> 00:14:57.288 Somebody asked me what my purpose was. 00:14:57.288 --> 00:15:02.933 Matter of fact, this was yesterday and I was interviewing an executive coach. 00:15:02.933 --> 00:15:14.341 Right, I'm, I'm constantly looking to try and improve myself professionally, looking to try and improve myself professionally myself in my personal life and then as well in my faith journey. 00:15:14.341 --> 00:15:15.523 Right, and he said what's your purpose? 00:15:15.523 --> 00:15:30.976 And I said my purpose in business is to bring as many good people along this, what I believe is an awesome, incredible journey as many good people with me as I can and to take them as far as I possibly can. 00:15:30.976 --> 00:15:34.669 And I I've done a pretty good job of doing that thus far. 00:15:34.669 --> 00:15:42.534 But but the conversation I had yesterday just reinvigorated me and I'm like how do I, how do I take all 100 people with me? 00:15:42.534 --> 00:15:44.158 Like, how do we keep getting better? 00:15:45.880 --> 00:15:47.903 So these are some of the highlights. 00:15:47.903 --> 00:15:51.515 I mean, these are are the the best parts of being able to do what you do. 00:15:51.515 --> 00:15:59.621 When you find your purpose or your calling and your talents, you're able to leverage that into a vocation that helps others and and helps yourself and your family. 00:15:59.621 --> 00:16:03.456 But that's not the full story either. 00:16:03.456 --> 00:16:10.850 There's also, um, really, really hard parts that don't get talked about a lot about being an entrepreneur. 00:16:10.850 --> 00:16:12.562 What are some of those things for you? 00:16:17.019 --> 00:16:23.570 Well, to say that building a business is easy, I would say that that person has never done it. 00:16:26.475 --> 00:16:39.326 Every once in a while you run into the oh it must be nice people and, uh, sometimes they're your closest friends and sometimes they're your biggest enemy, and and that that phrase gets brought up and I just want to clear the air. 00:16:39.326 --> 00:16:44.888 There is nothing, nothing easy about being an entrepreneur, and I mean nothing. 00:16:44.888 --> 00:17:36.969 Um, some of the hardest things that I've had to endure is parting ways with some of my best friends, parting ways with family members who were going against the grain and cutting corners when it comes to our culture and our processes and our procedures, and I think the hardest decision I ever had to make as a leader was letting go my most productive carrier operations person who ended up being a childhood friend of mine, for the greater good of the organization, because it just started to that negativity just kind of started to spill out amongst the rest of the group, and that was a very difficult personal decision, but it was the hardest yet wisest decision I had ever made to this point as an entrepreneur and a founder. 00:17:37.595 --> 00:17:40.582 What was it like a month later in the room with the team? 00:17:40.582 --> 00:17:44.739 Just like tension is down, communication is up. 00:17:44.739 --> 00:17:46.545 What was the vibe like afterwards? 00:17:47.055 --> 00:17:48.622 I would say, the next week it was different. 00:17:49.035 --> 00:17:49.296 Really. 00:17:50.138 --> 00:17:51.963 Yeah, it was almost instantaneously. 00:17:51.963 --> 00:17:58.925 It was, it was, and it just then it reassured myself that that was the right decision. 00:17:58.925 --> 00:18:04.019 Right, and it gave me a good amount of reassurance because, I've got to be honest, I lost a lot of sleep. 00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:09.509 Um, I had to hear it from family members on the West Coast like, hey, what the heck's going on? 00:18:09.509 --> 00:18:22.105 We're here and so-and-so, and um, I think the one part of this journey that most people don't talk about is, uh, it can change you, right, it can change you. 00:18:22.105 --> 00:18:26.218 If you do it well, your life changes monetarily. 00:18:26.218 --> 00:18:27.662 That's pretty evident, right? 00:18:28.763 --> 00:18:33.521 But I'm not the same person or leader today that I was seven years ago. 00:18:33.521 --> 00:18:37.469 I am far more calm, far more. 00:18:37.469 --> 00:18:47.601 I'm quicker to make decisions, but I'm a lot more thoughtful with them, whereas three or four or five years ago, there would have been a lot more raw emotion attached to it. 00:18:47.601 --> 00:18:50.527 Now it's a little bit more okay. 00:18:50.527 --> 00:18:57.663 Detach myself from this situation, potentially go seek counsel from my executive team or my partners. 00:18:57.663 --> 00:19:05.941 In most cases, I do that every time now, and it's okay to change and evolve in those instances. 00:19:05.941 --> 00:19:08.526 But I'm not a different person. 00:19:08.526 --> 00:19:10.169 I'm still the same, chris Brewer. 00:19:10.169 --> 00:19:20.748 I have just evolved as a leader and I feel like this version of me today is a lot more effective than the version that I was three or four or five years ago. 00:19:21.476 --> 00:19:26.028 So you mentioned that getting too emotional was maybe part of what you had to overcome. 00:19:26.028 --> 00:19:29.079 Was there anything else that you had to specifically work on? 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:36.998 For some people, if they've been in charge for a long time, they're very unaware of how their emotions impact other people. 00:19:36.998 --> 00:19:51.676 So you can be frustrated with a business outcome and that's the word that you would use but somebody in the room might see it as anger, and then you're angry at them, and then that can create a culture of fear, or just. 00:19:51.676 --> 00:19:53.259 I'm giving an example here. 00:19:53.259 --> 00:19:58.919 I'm not saying that it applies to you, but do you remember, like what one of your coaches may be saying? 00:19:58.919 --> 00:20:10.540 You might have this tendency that you're unaware of and we need to work on it yes, I actually yes, I would say the answer to that is yes. 00:20:12.241 --> 00:20:15.923 Relinquishing control, I think, is the right word. 00:20:15.923 --> 00:20:34.821 Right, because for so long it was me, the salesperson Chris, the leader Chris, the boss person, chris, the leader, chris, the boss Chris was at one time the leading carrier operations person. 00:20:34.821 --> 00:20:38.316 Chris at one time led all of claims and then also handled all of the commissions and finances. 00:20:38.316 --> 00:20:51.798 That was difficult to really put myself out there and go out and find the right talent and bring them in and then give them autonomy over those departments. 00:20:51.798 --> 00:20:53.760 That's difficult to do. 00:20:53.760 --> 00:21:03.001 But the second I gave full control up is the second that this thing went to the moon. 00:21:03.182 --> 00:21:10.536 I mean that's yeah, it's not Chris Brewer logistics, it's River City logistics, so you've got to Exactly, got a yeah, and it took me a lot to get there. 00:21:10.997 --> 00:21:12.180 I would say I'm all the way there. 00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:26.221 Now I've got two great partners uh, three partners that they each have control over their respective um divisions within all three organizations and I don't really make any of those decisions anymore. 00:21:26.221 --> 00:21:33.863 I'm now solely responsible for the brand, the strategic vision and M&A. 00:21:33.863 --> 00:21:37.375 Those are the three things that I'm really focused on at the present moment. 00:21:37.917 --> 00:21:47.686 Well, tell me about your partners and what they uniquely bring to the table that maybe is their God-given gift, and then also, how have you seen them change on this journey? 00:21:48.588 --> 00:21:51.193 And also, how have you seen them change on this journey? 00:21:51.193 --> 00:21:54.319 Yes, that's good, because they have changed as well. 00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:58.867 So my first partner that came with me his name is Josh Greenbaum. 00:21:58.867 --> 00:22:04.798 He oversees pretty much the entire brokerage operation. 00:22:04.798 --> 00:22:07.446 He's a really smart guy, really good at business development. 00:22:07.446 --> 00:22:19.025 He oversees all the account management team and then he also oversees the carrier operations manager and then carrier operations manager is responsible for his team. 00:22:19.025 --> 00:22:24.060 So, from a brokerage perspective, josh handles the brokerage entirely and I want to give him his flowers. 00:22:24.060 --> 00:22:30.041 In the worst freight market that I've ever seen, we're going to double in revenue from 24 to 25. 00:22:30.482 --> 00:22:31.324 Oh, congratulations. 00:22:31.805 --> 00:22:40.518 Yeah, and I don't say that lightly because, um, I know that people are out there struggling, but I I gotta, I gotta give my team the respect and the credit that they deserve. 00:22:40.518 --> 00:22:49.125 And I got to stop being afraid of um, pronouncing the fact that we are successful, cause I kind of get a little, a little gun shy about that. 00:22:49.125 --> 00:22:51.321 It's like, oh, I don't want people to know we're doing well. 00:22:51.321 --> 00:23:02.935 But I'm at the point now where we have built something really good and our processes are good, the way we treat our customers and our carriers are really good, the way we treat each other is really good, and so I got to give Josh his credit. 00:23:03.036 --> 00:23:06.262 My other partner, jake Shireman, was an outside guy. 00:23:06.262 --> 00:23:15.227 We brought him in from the insurance world and I say this too we were good at what we did, which was customer acquisition and covering freight. 00:23:15.227 --> 00:23:16.916 We weren't a business until I hired Jake. 00:23:16.916 --> 00:23:18.220 I like it. 00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:24.917 So he's the business guy, he's the finance guy, he is the hey, we can make this work guy. 00:23:24.917 --> 00:23:26.661 He is the risk assessment guy. 00:23:26.661 --> 00:23:30.888 Jake oversees everything and then rolls up to me. 00:23:30.888 --> 00:23:34.806 I don't think we are anywhere near where we are today without Jake. 00:23:35.695 --> 00:23:36.337 That's great to hear. 00:23:36.337 --> 00:23:42.240 And again, what have you seen, both, of how they evolved, even just in the last couple of years? 00:23:43.782 --> 00:23:49.621 I think, compassion and true servant leadership. 00:23:49.621 --> 00:23:51.105 I've seen a lot out of those two. 00:23:51.105 --> 00:24:14.424 I've seen them lift people up that they were managing and then move them, and then move those people up in the middle level management roles, and so that's something that I'm big on, right I want to continue promoting from within this organization, and I've seen both of them get as much as they humanly possibly can out of the people that they lead. 00:24:14.424 --> 00:24:32.136 And then, and then more, and then some Um, and I think that's what makes this place special is the fact that that we have good leaders who are able to get the most out of their people, and then, and then a few of those folks, they're able to rise to the occasion, and then now we're looking at a whole new level of leadership that we fostered from good culture. 00:24:32.136 --> 00:24:34.519 Now we're looking at a whole new level of leadership that we fostered from good culture. 00:24:35.381 --> 00:24:39.546 And then it multiplies over people and over time and it starts to compound. 00:24:39.546 --> 00:24:43.009 I mean, what a blast, are you having fun? 00:24:43.589 --> 00:24:44.750 I'm having so much fun. 00:24:48.644 --> 00:24:50.214 I tell people all the time I have the best job in the world. 00:24:50.214 --> 00:24:53.607 How do you stay? 00:24:53.607 --> 00:24:54.519 Let me think of how. 00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:55.184 Do I want to ask this one? 00:24:55.184 --> 00:24:57.538 I imagine when you first started you're like you know what success is. 00:24:57.538 --> 00:25:09.738 Success is a $10 million brokerage with eight people and fill in the blank, and then one day you're like you know what Success is 50 million and it's a new office or whatever that thing is. 00:25:09.738 --> 00:25:24.132 How do you not constantly chase just the next level but maintain some degree of contentedness while still redefining what success looks like for the next chapter? 00:25:26.096 --> 00:25:29.864 Sorry that was a long question, that's a good, that's a really good question. 00:25:29.994 --> 00:25:31.119 I'm going to break it into two parts. 00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:39.237 I'm going to break it into two parts. 00:25:39.237 --> 00:25:41.182 Any good founder that I've come in contact with in the last three years. 00:25:41.182 --> 00:25:48.622 They have all had goals, and they're personal goals and then they're generally business goals, that which are measured in revenue, right. 00:25:48.622 --> 00:25:54.684 That's kind of the way that I've encountered some of the more successful people that I've met in the last three years. 00:25:54.684 --> 00:26:05.269 When I first started this in December of 2018, my only goal and I kid you not was I want to make enough money to go on vacation once a year and buy a house. 00:26:05.730 --> 00:26:05.851 Yep. 00:26:06.556 --> 00:26:07.580 That was my goal, right? 00:26:07.580 --> 00:26:13.247 Well, a year came and went by and I was like, oh, this is too much work. 00:26:13.247 --> 00:26:23.689 Now we're going to start to hire and so for the first time in 2022, I believe when we hired Jake, we had no goals. 00:26:23.689 --> 00:26:24.670 We had none. 00:26:24.670 --> 00:26:35.535 So one of his first challenges to me, he said I want a three, a five, a seven and a 10-year plan. 00:26:35.535 --> 00:26:41.681 And I gave him that plan and we're in in year three now and we're pacing at year seven Just by having goals, even. 00:26:42.241 --> 00:26:43.643 Right. 00:26:43.643 --> 00:26:49.796 The answer, the long form answer, is it's not what can we buy? 00:26:49.796 --> 00:27:05.922 How can we buy it's, how can I make, and how can I encourage my group to make, the largest impact on the industry that we serve Part of the reason why I thoroughly enjoy going out to DC every year at the TIA Policy Forum with Chris Burrows and his team. 00:27:05.922 --> 00:27:08.867 There is real impact being made. 00:27:08.867 --> 00:27:10.778 Last year we spoke about freight fraud. 00:27:10.778 --> 00:27:13.707 Well, come to find out when I showed up there on Monday. 00:27:13.707 --> 00:27:17.075 Spoke about freight fraud Well, come to find out when I showed up there on Monday. 00:27:17.075 --> 00:27:30.248 We've got a bill on the House and Senate floor that's going to be kind of looped into the surface transportation policy that's going to be voted on next month and I think it's going to pass and like that's cool, Like that's the type of stuff that I get out of bed for. 00:27:31.295 --> 00:27:33.923 So what will the policy change be, if it goes the way you would hope? 00:27:35.134 --> 00:27:35.336 of bed for. 00:27:35.336 --> 00:27:36.960 So what will the policy change be if it goes the way you would hope? 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:39.907 So there's going to be civil punishment, punitive damages for freight fraud and theft. 00:27:39.907 --> 00:27:42.976 So people are going to go to jail. 00:27:43.616 --> 00:27:46.762 Yeah, whereas today there's really no consequences. 00:27:48.566 --> 00:27:50.210 There's no consequences whatsoever. 00:27:50.210 --> 00:27:51.196 You should go to jail. 00:27:51.196 --> 00:27:53.242 You're causing a lot of harm to the American people. 00:27:53.242 --> 00:28:01.217 I told lawmakers in Washington DC this week. 00:28:01.217 --> 00:28:03.402 I said it is inhibiting the ability for somebody who wants to buy a truck. 00:28:03.402 --> 00:28:06.387 It inhibits their ability to live out their American dream. 00:28:06.387 --> 00:28:10.541 One truckload gets stolen, they're bankrupt, they're done. 00:28:10.541 --> 00:28:13.817 Their policy is not getting renewed next year. 00:28:13.838 --> 00:28:23.114 And if it does, it's going to be at such a premium that they can't even afford to pay. 00:28:23.114 --> 00:28:27.800 So now you're thinking beyond, still, the business realm, but of course you're thinking bigger than that industry level impact. 00:28:27.800 --> 00:28:29.324 How do you stay grounded then too? 00:28:29.324 --> 00:28:36.705 I mean the opposite side of the question, Somebody in your shoes with the financial success and the business success. 00:28:36.705 --> 00:28:38.608 Hey, sometimes it's tempting. 00:28:38.608 --> 00:28:42.180 I'm pretty cool stuff, I'm kind of a big deal. 00:28:42.180 --> 00:28:46.746 How does that, or does that not ever for you become an issue? 00:28:46.746 --> 00:28:49.019 I would imagine for me it would. 00:28:50.364 --> 00:28:54.506 Oh no, I mean to say that it's not an issue, is not true. 00:28:54.506 --> 00:28:57.278 I mean to say that it's not an issue, is not true. 00:28:57.278 --> 00:28:57.778 I mean that's false. 00:28:57.778 --> 00:29:07.567 Anytime you start to accumulate some level of success, there's cars that you want or there's trips that you want to take. 00:29:07.567 --> 00:29:09.950 I'm not going to sit here and lie to you. 00:29:09.950 --> 00:29:17.516 We've been on some really cool trips there's. 00:29:17.516 --> 00:29:18.479 We've been on some really cool trips. 00:29:18.499 --> 00:29:20.005 Um, I gotta go back to my rock, my, my, my anchor, and that's my wife, my wife. 00:29:20.005 --> 00:29:21.509 Um, this would give you everything you need to know about her. 00:29:21.509 --> 00:29:25.299 She is your typical midwestern catholic. 00:29:25.299 --> 00:29:28.285 Uh, grew up in a farming family. 00:29:28.285 --> 00:29:32.336 Um, gal like that's who she is to her core. 00:29:32.336 --> 00:29:42.048 She goes to the grocery store and she buys non-main brand salad dressings and she doesn't buy Heinz ketchup, she buys the off-brand. 00:29:42.048 --> 00:29:43.215 We've now remedied that. 00:29:43.215 --> 00:29:51.617 I got to have my Heinz, but that's who my wife is to her core and she keeps me very grounded in that regard. 00:29:52.019 --> 00:30:03.909 And for the first time ever, we went, uh met with our attorney and our financial planner and we said hey, we need to have a real plan for what success looks like today and what it looks like 10, 15, 25 years in the future. 00:30:04.510 --> 00:30:05.434 Um and albeit. 00:30:05.434 --> 00:30:16.039 You know, putting together a death plan is is scary, but when, when her and I have, you know, had the been blessed, right I? 00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:18.826 I said that we've been blessed by many different avenues. 00:30:18.826 --> 00:30:22.005 We've been blessed by people around us, we've been blessed by God. 00:30:22.005 --> 00:30:26.226 We've been blessed by the customers who believe in what we're building monetarily. 00:30:26.226 --> 00:30:36.299 We wanted to just kind of safeguard that and make sure that, if anything were to happen to us, our children are set up, they can go to college, they can start a business of their own if they want. 00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:38.954 But those were difficult conversations to have. 00:30:38.954 --> 00:30:49.009 But nobody prepares you for that unless you grew up around somebody who went down that path. 00:30:49.009 --> 00:31:07.065 My dad was an entrepreneur but he never went down the path of planning for us kids because he was still in the day-to-day, even in his late 50s and 60s right, and so having to learn all that that's one of those learning curves as a leader that nobody tells you is coming. 00:31:08.426 --> 00:31:16.964 We walked out of that meeting with our attorney and we were just kind of scratching our heads like, all right, so if we die we're good, right, and we're laughing about it. 00:31:16.964 --> 00:31:25.906 But the name of the game is how do you put your children and the people around you that are closest to you in a better position when you're not here any longer? 00:31:25.906 --> 00:31:30.462 And that's the largest part of my purpose is my family. 00:31:31.424 --> 00:31:35.412 I love to hear that, because you also have to have a plan for the what ifs. 00:31:35.412 --> 00:31:44.019 That aren't all good my wife and I did a similar exercise three or four years ago and just the questions that it prompts. 00:31:44.019 --> 00:31:48.308 It forces you to prioritize what matters. 00:31:48.308 --> 00:32:03.249 You have to put people's names down as beneficiaries, and now you've got relationship impact plus financial impact, and I think the public service announcement from all this for our listeners is don't wait. 00:32:03.249 --> 00:32:17.509 The biggest challenges for those kinds of things are for the people that don't plan, and the impact is actually felt by the people that are left behind when there isn't a plan and then there becomes conflict or any number of different things. 00:32:17.509 --> 00:32:25.199 And so you've got a three, a five, a seven and a 10 year plan, but now you've also got an end of life plan and that is a. 00:32:25.199 --> 00:32:30.169 It's a different framework for approaching life. 00:32:30.536 --> 00:32:36.448 One of my favorite definitions of the word wisdom is simply living skillfully. 00:32:36.448 --> 00:32:53.667 When you are wise, you avoid downside, you maximize the upside, you learn who you can and can't trust, you avoid unnecessary conflict, you stay in your zone of expertise and you don't get out in front of your skis and all of those things. 00:32:53.667 --> 00:33:00.445 To me's that is skillful living, and I don't think that gets the idea of wisdom gets enough airtime. 00:33:00.445 --> 00:33:03.919 We're too focused on flashy, shiny things. 00:33:03.919 --> 00:33:25.384 But having the foresight and maturity to make decisions like that for your family as a result of the way that you've done and thought about that, for your career first, and then your business second Um, I could hang out and chat with you for days, chris, because I like the way you communicate and the way that you describe things. 00:33:25.384 --> 00:33:28.259 Um, you've also got good style. 00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:29.986 I'll just say that you got good style. 00:33:29.986 --> 00:33:33.259 You're just you're a lot of fun to be around. 00:33:34.061 --> 00:33:35.767 Well, I need to get up there and come fishing with you. 00:33:35.767 --> 00:33:41.788 I want to touch on one thing real quick, because you talk about planning. 00:33:41.788 --> 00:33:54.801 Right, I've been getting I'm talking probably a dozen solicitations weekly on what's your exit strategy. 00:33:54.801 --> 00:33:56.306 Would you like to sell your business? 00:33:56.306 --> 00:34:06.203 I've got a group of investors here and River City fits our ICP and we've got X, Y and Z technology and we can add you to our group and take your business to the next level. 00:34:06.203 --> 00:34:09.237 The answer is this I'm not selling my business ever. 00:34:09.237 --> 00:34:22.903 I want my children, I want Sophia, I want the two-year-old here in 2025 to one day be the CEO or whichever one of my kids, if they want it, if they're skillful enough. 00:34:22.903 --> 00:34:24.686 They're not going to be gifted anything right. 00:34:24.746 --> 00:34:39.760 Sure, they got to earn it, they're going to have to work hard for it, but leaving a legacy and then being remembered as somebody who was charitable and good and honest, and giving that's who I believe. 00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:43.648 I am to my core, and I want to go out like that. 00:34:44.735 --> 00:34:46.239 You're very easy to root for. 00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:50.286 Proud of you also. 00:34:50.286 --> 00:34:52.096 Thank you Genuinely. 00:34:52.096 --> 00:34:55.244 I don't have any remaining questions. 00:34:55.244 --> 00:35:00.967 I'm like fresh out, like that hardly ever happens, but like you just hit every one of the right notes. 00:35:00.967 --> 00:35:10.898 So I'm just going to instead give you the opportunity, if you would like to reflect for just a moment on who would you like to express gratitude for in this moment. 00:35:12.641 --> 00:35:14.945 Well, first and foremost, my wife. 00:35:14.945 --> 00:35:17.009 My wife is Liz. 00:35:17.009 --> 00:35:17.989 She's my best friend. 00:35:17.989 --> 00:35:21.862 She's the best partner in life you could ask for. 00:35:21.862 --> 00:35:23.405 She's the best mom. 00:35:23.405 --> 00:35:24.856 I mean she's such a good mother. 00:35:24.856 --> 00:35:27.701 I am so lucky in so many different ways. 00:35:27.701 --> 00:35:35.123 My immediate family I've got a brother of mine who now works in the business and I'm so proud of him. 00:35:35.123 --> 00:35:38.599 I was watching him mature in this business. 00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:45.041 He moved out here from the West Coast to join our team and I made him start at the very bottom. 00:35:45.041 --> 00:35:58.257 I made him work night shift for a year and now he is one of our most productive account managers, working some of our most important accounts at a really high level. 00:35:58.257 --> 00:35:59.119 I'm really proud of him. 00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:01.664 I love his guidance and his support. 00:36:02.025 --> 00:36:04.898 My partners I want to thank all of them as well. 00:36:04.898 --> 00:36:07.143 Obviously, my parents. 00:36:07.143 --> 00:36:11.217 I oftentimes say I had the best of both worlds. 00:36:11.217 --> 00:36:12.940 My parents got divorced really young. 00:36:12.940 --> 00:36:14.322 My dad was really successful. 00:36:14.322 --> 00:36:33.365 My mom worked three jobs to keep the lights on, so I understood what it looked like to struggle and so having an understanding of what a struggling lifestyle looked like versus what a very well put together lifestyle looked like, that was good for me to see at a young age. 00:36:33.365 --> 00:36:34.387 So I love my parents. 00:36:41.394 --> 00:36:48.476 There are so many people that I can thank A lot of good mentors throughout the way right, and I could name drop probably a dozen plus people that I've taken great advice from and still remain in contact with. 00:36:48.476 --> 00:36:52.018 But I'm just blessed, man. 00:36:52.018 --> 00:37:05.492 I'm blessed that I get to wake up every morning and I get to, you know, come to either the brokerage office or the terminal and the warehouse, and I get to interact with people who genuinely enjoy being at their job. 00:37:05.492 --> 00:37:17.297 Logistics as a whole, among all three verticals. 00:37:17.297 --> 00:37:25.443 We are in the business of building transportation professionals, not just offering employment, and I think that there's a big difference in the marketplace and I use that as a sales and recruiting tool. 00:37:25.603 --> 00:37:29.978 I just hired a guy out of Chicago. 00:37:29.978 --> 00:37:35.458 He's been with us for about two and a half months and he told me on the phone the other day he goes. 00:37:35.458 --> 00:37:44.327 You know I was talking to my wife and you know we were talking about the honeymoon phase and like I'm starting to believe that this isn't like a honeymoon. 00:37:44.327 --> 00:37:47.534 I'm starting to believe that, like maybe this is the way you guys just do business. 00:37:47.534 --> 00:38:00.922 And I said I told you this is how we do things and, um, it just warmed my heart that, you know he was comfortable enough to know like, hey, this is a pretty good place for me to be in my career and I want everybody to feel that way here. 00:38:01.856 --> 00:38:11.806 Well, I have no doubt, if you keep doing what you're going, what you are doing, that will continue, and I hope to see you next August back in Nashville with the Bitfreighter team. 00:38:11.806 --> 00:38:14.682 I hope my team beats your team in golf. 00:38:14.682 --> 00:38:18.463 Maybe I'd love to go fishing with you up here in Minnesota. 00:38:18.463 --> 00:38:24.780 We can get some musky in October perhaps, and it'd be good to just spend some time together, break some bread and keep chatting. 00:38:24.780 --> 00:38:28.581 But, chris, of course we're all rooting for you and we wish you nothing but the best. 00:38:29.335 --> 00:38:30.501 I appreciate you having me on. 00:38:30.501 --> 00:38:35.536 I'm going to definitely take you up on the fishing and the golf next year too Should be fun. 00:38:36.278 --> 00:38:36.559 Right on. 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:37.262