1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:03,839 SPEAKER_01: Hello, and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to 2 00:00:03,839 --> 00:00:06,480 Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,320 the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,119 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,039 inspiring others to take the lead. 6 00:00:13,439 --> 00:00:16,559 It's a roller coaster ride that you might ultimately build. 7 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:18,960 That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 8 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:20,719 It works very hard. 9 00:00:21,039 --> 00:00:23,440 It truly is building a legacy of the state. 10 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,320 SPEAKER_02: The more life you live, the more wisdom you have. 11 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,000 Because we are where we're supposed to be and answering the 12 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:30,160 call. 13 00:00:30,719 --> 00:00:33,439 SPEAKER_01: Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 14 00:00:33,679 --> 00:00:35,119 I'm your host, H2. 15 00:00:35,679 --> 00:00:38,399 Let's build something together from the ground up. 16 00:00:41,119 --> 00:00:44,560 Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Bootstrapper's Guide 17 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:45,359 to Logistics. 18 00:00:45,439 --> 00:00:48,079 Um, like I've been saying recently, we're still doing 19 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,200 right now what we've been doing for years now. 20 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,799 Shocking to say that it's been years, but we are telling 21 00:00:54,799 --> 00:00:59,039 straightforward, simple stories about not so simple things that 22 00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:02,640 freight founders and supply chain entrepreneurs uh have to 23 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,680 go through to take their ideas from conception to reality. 24 00:01:08,079 --> 00:01:11,840 And then once you're in the reality, all the highs and lows 25 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:13,120 that go along with that. 26 00:01:13,359 --> 00:01:16,959 And there's nothing flashy about that, it is just actual people 27 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:18,159 doing good work. 28 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:23,599 And it has been for me one of the great joys of my 29 00:01:23,599 --> 00:01:27,200 professional life to just get to feature people that otherwise 30 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,400 don't get a ton of attention because they're too busy working 31 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,840 to um go out and market their businesses and and do things 32 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:34,239 like that. 33 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,280 And so if you've been listening for all of that time, I want to 34 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:37,920 say thank you. 35 00:01:38,079 --> 00:01:40,799 And if this is the first time you're hearing the show, I'm 36 00:01:40,799 --> 00:01:41,200 sorry. 37 00:01:41,359 --> 00:01:44,719 Um you've missed about 110 great stories. 38 00:01:44,799 --> 00:01:48,959 So you've got a library of um inspiration and education you 39 00:01:48,959 --> 00:01:52,560 can uh go back to if you are so inclined and if you're on the 40 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,239 fence about maybe taking the leap. 41 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,280 I'm excited today that you're gonna get to hear from somebody 42 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,840 who is early in their journey and is maybe gonna be able to 43 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,200 give you some insights on what the early stages of starting a 44 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:06,640 company is actually like. 45 00:02:06,799 --> 00:02:09,759 So that's a long intro, longer than usual. 46 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,879 I've had too much coffee this morning, but I would like to 47 00:02:12,879 --> 00:02:16,240 welcome our guest today, Ben Shurgey, who is the founder of 48 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,000 Science of Sales and the co-founder of Bachaulers. 49 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:20,639 Ben, good morning. 50 00:02:20,719 --> 00:02:21,439 How are you today? 51 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:22,560 SPEAKER_02: Good morning. 52 00:02:22,719 --> 00:02:23,680 I am doing well. 53 00:02:23,759 --> 00:02:25,199 Thanks for having me on, Nate. 54 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,520 I'm really uh really excited to chat with you. 55 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,240 SPEAKER_01: Well, you and I first met, I think at a 56 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,039 conference, I'm gonna guess three years ago, and kind of 57 00:02:35,039 --> 00:02:36,400 instantly hit it off. 58 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:42,319 Um, this was kind of in the middle of the COVID um freight 59 00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:48,639 boom and also uh a major rise in social media activity, in 60 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,159 logistics in particular. 61 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,400 And you stand out in my mind. 62 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,039 I'm sure you get asked these kinds of questions all the time, 63 00:02:55,199 --> 00:03:00,000 but you stand out to me as one of the key people that seized 64 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,319 the moment between those two events happening um and carved 65 00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:07,840 out a space for you in a big industry that you're now one of 66 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,120 the most, in my opinion, memorable and recognizable 67 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:16,800 people that has done a lot of fun stuff. 68 00:03:17,039 --> 00:03:20,719 Um so can for those who aren't aware, can you explain what that 69 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,319 what I what I just what I just said? 70 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:23,520 What did that all mean? 71 00:03:23,759 --> 00:03:24,560 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it. 72 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:26,479 No, it's it's really funny you put it that way. 73 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:31,520 I and you know, like prior to doing any content or like doing 74 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,639 anything on social media, LinkedIn or Twitter or anything, 75 00:03:34,719 --> 00:03:38,719 or it was it was Twitter back then, um, you know, like I would 76 00:03:38,719 --> 00:03:41,520 log on to LinkedIn every once in a while, and there were people 77 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,520 that I would kind of follow, and I was like definitely a LinkedIn 78 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,879 lurker and like Charlie at CS recruiting, like was always 79 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,719 like, wow, like and she's doing some awesome content, and it was 80 00:03:52,719 --> 00:03:55,759 like, you know, it seems like she's killing it, but like there 81 00:03:55,759 --> 00:03:59,599 just wasn't like maybe like pre-2020, it seems like there 82 00:03:59,599 --> 00:04:01,919 really wasn't content out there, right? 83 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,560 Especially in logistics, like LinkedIn, it just wasn't really 84 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:07,199 a thing. 85 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:12,479 Um, and then you know, I started to like Steam Logistics started 86 00:04:12,479 --> 00:04:15,919 to do a lot of posting, and it was like kind of caught my 87 00:04:15,919 --> 00:04:16,480 attention too. 88 00:04:16,639 --> 00:04:20,079 That was maybe like I'm thinking early 2020 is when I remember 89 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:23,040 seeing Steam Logistics stuff all the time. 90 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,519 Um and uh I was kind of like, you know, I really want to. 91 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,759 It's social, I didn't know anything about social media, and 92 00:04:31,759 --> 00:04:34,720 I was never really good at it or put much energy into it. 93 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,600 And I was like, I'm gonna give it a shot and just start doing 94 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:38,639 crazy stuff. 95 00:04:38,879 --> 00:04:42,000 And I started posting first, it was just text, and then it 96 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,199 became eventually somehow snowballed into freight music 97 00:04:45,199 --> 00:04:46,079 video parodies. 98 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:51,360 I don't know how, but yeah, like partially it was like, you know, 99 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,399 it was such a wild time era in freight. 100 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,839 Uh everything there were there were good vibes all around. 101 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,199 It was like, hey, why not do a freight music video parody? 102 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,480 And also my bosses at the time didn't care because we were 103 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:05,600 doing so well as a company. 104 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,120 It was like, okay, Ben's over here doing some weird stuff, but 105 00:05:09,199 --> 00:05:11,120 like we're doing great, so who cares? 106 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:11,920 You know. 107 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,240 SPEAKER_01: Um, what uh maybe it doesn't get recognized by 108 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,560 others, but I'm but does get recognized by me. 109 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:20,319 I'm a musician myself. 110 00:05:21,519 --> 00:05:25,040 What you were doing is very fun and irreverent. 111 00:05:25,439 --> 00:05:29,680 Um, and it was kind of a laughter, uh created a lot of 112 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,639 laughter and and positivity in kind of some challenging times. 113 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,279 So that was kind of like the first layer of oh, this is 114 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:35,759 interesting. 115 00:05:36,079 --> 00:05:39,279 Logistics has kind of been boring as an industry for a very 116 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,600 long time, and now there's some liveliness to it. 117 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:46,480 But behind that, there is genuine talent. 118 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:52,000 You are actually a gifted musician, and the way that you 119 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,800 went about um writing this, a lot of these parody songs, is 120 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:58,160 very intelligent. 121 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,800 And I what I love, my one of my favorite comedians is Conan 122 00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:06,480 O'Brien, and he goes, My goal is to be at the intersection of 123 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,399 really smart and really dumb. 124 00:06:08,879 --> 00:06:11,519 Um he straddles that line perfectly. 125 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,839 And you straddle this line between really intelligent and 126 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,240 really approachable at the same time in the content that you 127 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:20,720 created. 128 00:06:20,959 --> 00:06:23,839 And so if you haven't heard that before, I just want to pour that 129 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,480 into you that it was it's not just silly goofy stuff. 130 00:06:26,639 --> 00:06:32,160 There is some genuine um talent and craft behind it. 131 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,079 SPEAKER_02: Oh, that that means a lot. 132 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:34,959 Thanks, Nate. 133 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,959 Yeah, I I I put a lot of energy into it for a period of time 134 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,319 where I I don't know, it was like just an awesome creative 135 00:06:42,319 --> 00:06:45,439 outlet where I was like, wow, I get to do something and then 136 00:06:45,439 --> 00:06:49,040 share this with people who get all the inside jokes of 137 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:49,680 logistics. 138 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,199 And it's like, you know, this super fun thing, as opposed to 139 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,160 like before, you know, just like creating music or different. 140 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,279 I do like different short film competitions with my wife. 141 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,000 My wife's a filmmaker, so we do lots of creative projects 142 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:02,399 together. 143 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,879 And usually, you know, you do something, you go to a film 144 00:07:04,879 --> 00:07:07,120 festival, and there's like five or ten other people sitting 145 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,519 around, and it's like, yay, you're all patting each other on 146 00:07:09,519 --> 00:07:10,399 the back, and it's great. 147 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,720 But doing something, you know, that there's at least, you know, 148 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,680 at the time, and there still isn't enough logistics content 149 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:18,000 out there. 150 00:07:18,079 --> 00:07:21,199 I mean, a lot of there's a lot of podcasts out there, but a lot 151 00:07:21,199 --> 00:07:22,639 is kind of a relative term. 152 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:28,639 Like, I mean, there's still not enough for you know the how much 153 00:07:28,959 --> 00:07:33,279 um how much business is out there, how much logistics news 154 00:07:33,279 --> 00:07:34,079 is out there. 155 00:07:34,319 --> 00:07:37,279 Um, but I don't know, a long way to say. 156 00:07:37,439 --> 00:07:38,000 I don't know. 157 00:07:38,879 --> 00:07:41,839 It was really just there was something about that time period 158 00:07:41,839 --> 00:07:45,759 of like 2020 to 2023 of just like needing some sort of weird 159 00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:49,519 creative outlet with everything going on, and and it was it was 160 00:07:49,519 --> 00:07:49,680 fun. 161 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,920 SPEAKER_01: I've also not heard anybody describe it quite that 162 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:52,079 way. 163 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:52,959 It was an era. 164 00:07:53,199 --> 00:07:56,240 I mean, this podcast itself came out of that same era. 165 00:07:56,399 --> 00:08:00,319 Maybe if this industry ever got big enough and mattered um in 166 00:08:00,319 --> 00:08:03,279 the same way that they do music documentaries of the 60s or 70s, 167 00:08:03,439 --> 00:08:05,519 and then like, and then the mood in the country changed, and 168 00:08:05,519 --> 00:08:08,480 suddenly the the music shifted in this direction, and all of a 169 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,600 sudden there's drums and you know electronics, and it 170 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,279 signaled the end of the folk era. 171 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:15,279 I think you're onto something there. 172 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,959 There it was such a potent period of time in the world, 173 00:08:19,279 --> 00:08:24,240 people stuck at home and hobbies skyrocketed, and obviously the 174 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,160 the transportation industry was booming during that period, and 175 00:08:28,639 --> 00:08:31,439 that air that era does seem to have changed. 176 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,879 Um there is still tons of room for more content creators. 177 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:38,480 If I go to LinkedIn, I'm genuine generally seeing the same 20 178 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:39,519 people every day, and that's right. 179 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:43,679 Uh because I I think I read a stat that said 99% of people on 180 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,960 LinkedIn never create any content of any kind. 181 00:08:47,039 --> 00:08:51,600 Yeah, like they might post once a year, but they consume the 1% 182 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:57,120 content that is created, and obviously AI has changed and 183 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,320 kind of muddied the waters. 184 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:04,000 A lot of the content is is not as authentic or um original as 185 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:04,960 it used to be. 186 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,080 And I think that that has also heralded some of the end of that 187 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:08,159 era. 188 00:09:08,399 --> 00:09:09,120 Would you agree? 189 00:09:09,519 --> 00:09:11,360 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it feels different now for sure. 190 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,360 And and algorithm changes, like there was a time there where it 191 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,919 was just really exploding, and and like it just felt like wow, 192 00:09:20,159 --> 00:09:21,519 I'm discovering all these people. 193 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,440 Like, I discovered you, uh your podcast. 194 00:09:23,519 --> 00:09:24,320 I was like, wow. 195 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,919 And learning about all of these other, it's like, wow, I didn't 196 00:09:27,919 --> 00:09:31,360 realize how many people go out and start their own logistics 197 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:31,919 companies. 198 00:09:32,159 --> 00:09:35,919 Even like the rise of, I think of some of the like agent 199 00:09:35,919 --> 00:09:39,440 influencers and like learning about the agency model. 200 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:44,320 Whereas like when I was a W-2 rep, like for the first, I don't 201 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,360 know, like five years, I didn't really know what an agency was 202 00:09:47,519 --> 00:09:49,200 or that that model existed. 203 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,200 And I think a lot of W-2 brokerages try to like keep that 204 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:54,000 under wraps, right? 205 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,559 Like, don't don't know too, don't don't learn about that 206 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:56,799 stuff. 207 00:09:56,879 --> 00:10:00,240 And it's like, you know, there was that explosion that's I 208 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,360 think still out there of like, yeah, like these agency 209 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,039 recruiter influencers too, which is which is fun. 210 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:13,360 SPEAKER_01: I also think that period opened up the possibility 211 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,639 to actually be yourself and be professional at the same time. 212 00:10:16,879 --> 00:10:21,440 Before that, LinkedIn was very curated and it was more about um 213 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,080 just job seeking, basically, and trying to present in such a way 214 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,799 as to be attractive to recruiters or uh a potential 215 00:10:28,799 --> 00:10:29,440 employer. 216 00:10:29,759 --> 00:10:33,360 And those lines didn't get blurred, they totally broke open 217 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,399 where it was no, we actually hire people, we don't hire 218 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:37,600 positions. 219 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,799 And there there became it became less formal. 220 00:10:41,039 --> 00:10:44,159 And maybe it's gone too far sometimes. 221 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,960 You know, I mean now I'm seeing content that I'm like, that is 222 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,120 that is not this is not the right medium for the content 223 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:52,240 that I just saw. 224 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,440 Um but again, that's part of the I think that era has has maybe 225 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:57,679 ended. 226 00:10:57,759 --> 00:11:00,559 I mean, as I I hadn't really had some of these thoughts as 227 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,320 conscious thoughts until this conversation, but I think you 228 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,039 are you're definitely on to something. 229 00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:10,960 Um and then mirroring that to your own journey, you still are 230 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,840 creating content and you're still doing all of those um 231 00:11:14,159 --> 00:11:20,000 creative outlets, but now you've added your own layer of the 232 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,879 business side to it, um, not as a W-2. 233 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:29,759 And so you have now started two companies um early in both. 234 00:11:29,919 --> 00:11:32,960 Can you I don't know how many minutes we're 10 minutes in now? 235 00:11:33,039 --> 00:11:34,960 SPEAKER_02: Can you tell people what you do? 236 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,440 Yeah, I mean, but honestly, that that is a fun deep dive. 237 00:11:39,519 --> 00:11:42,720 I've I mean, content LinkedIn, especially LinkedIn logistics, 238 00:11:42,799 --> 00:11:44,159 deep dive is is awesome. 239 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:45,600 Um, yeah, what do I do? 240 00:11:45,759 --> 00:11:46,639 That's a great question. 241 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,679 I so I uh I go by the uh the mad sales scientists. 242 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,879 I love, I've always loved, for whatever reason, I don't know 243 00:11:54,879 --> 00:11:57,759 why, I love cold outreach sales. 244 00:11:57,919 --> 00:12:01,200 Like outbound sales for me is just there's something about 245 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:01,440 that. 246 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,480 I find the same way I find doing freight music video parodies 247 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:06,799 fun. 248 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,120 I find cold outreach so fun. 249 00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:13,679 And it's like this creative, like uh this uh sort of like 250 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:14,720 creative outlet. 251 00:12:14,879 --> 00:12:19,840 Um, and and it and actually, even recently, there's been an 252 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,840 explosion of and sort of a new era of cold outreach. 253 00:12:23,919 --> 00:12:27,039 Um, so so yeah, again, back to your question, what do I do? 254 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,519 I I help companies with cold outreach and get get companies 255 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,000 leads, um, warm qualified leads. 256 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,799 And it we're in this really interesting era and time where, 257 00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:44,559 like with AI and technology, similar to content creation, you 258 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:50,080 can achieve outreach at scale, personalized outreach that looks 259 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:54,000 really thoughtful, intentional, and really it's just an AI bot 260 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,240 that's sending you an email or LinkedIn connection request, or 261 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,399 uh, you know, or you're being called by somebody on a parallel 262 00:13:02,399 --> 00:13:05,519 or power dialer who's calling eight numbers at the same time. 263 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:10,720 And it's it's it's such an interesting era of like, what do 264 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,559 we do with this technology to go back to like to me, what I love 265 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,679 about cold outreach and helping companies with cold outreach is 266 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:22,320 focusing on the human connection aspect and how we build start 267 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,399 that meaningful relationship. 268 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:30,720 Yes, leveraging technology, but like also using that in a way 269 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,039 that's behind the scenes, and that prospect doesn't feel that 270 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:38,159 automation and that that they're just a number. 271 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,000 Um, so that's sort of what I do in a nutshell is help people get 272 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,440 qualified leads and do it in what I think are smart, but 273 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,080 sometimes also a bit silly ways. 274 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,720 SPEAKER_01: So that's the science of sales side. 275 00:13:50,799 --> 00:13:53,279 And then you also have a new freight brokerage. 276 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:54,080 Tell us about that. 277 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,120 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. 278 00:13:55,279 --> 00:14:00,639 Uh so uh so at the I also started a a freight brokerage 279 00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:01,919 called Backhaulers. 280 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:08,399 Um, and the idea behind that is really, you know, similarly, 281 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,879 we're also entering a new era in logistics with AI and technology 282 00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:18,960 where, you know, there's things like Happy Robot or um all these 283 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:23,120 different this different technology that can let you do 284 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:24,320 more with less, right? 285 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:29,200 And that's always the idea of I think logistics is how do we 286 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:35,120 achieve scale um and with the lowest head count we possibly 287 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:35,440 can. 288 00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:39,360 Um and I think a lot of brokerages for a while, it was 289 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,320 like, okay, we're gonna hire reps right out of college, get 290 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,720 them some basic training and throw them in there. 291 00:14:44,879 --> 00:14:46,480 Um, and you can scale that. 292 00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:49,679 And then it sort of shifted in my mind, at least, to like, 293 00:14:49,759 --> 00:14:54,240 okay, we're gonna do this without sourcing and hire labor 294 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,399 overseas and help achieve that scale mostly on the operation 295 00:14:58,399 --> 00:14:58,639 side. 296 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,840 So, okay, you can run pretty skinny on the operation side. 297 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,039 And now we're sort of entering this era of like, oh, you can do 298 00:15:05,039 --> 00:15:08,879 that now with technology and you can really have a low head count 299 00:15:08,879 --> 00:15:09,679 with technology. 300 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,799 But what I think is really cool, I think a lot of companies are 301 00:15:12,799 --> 00:15:18,240 kind of pairing the college rep model or the outsource model 302 00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:19,759 with technology. 303 00:15:19,919 --> 00:15:24,080 And what I think is really a cool opportunity is okay, what 304 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,000 if we got uh, and and this is how we founded Bachaulers, like 305 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:32,480 what if the four of us um who all have experience in freight 306 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,559 brokerage and have been doing logistics for a long time were 307 00:15:36,559 --> 00:15:38,000 equipped with this technology? 308 00:15:38,159 --> 00:15:42,559 Like, how many shippers could we serve with the AI bot army 309 00:15:42,559 --> 00:15:43,600 helping us out? 310 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,120 And what's been really cool to see over the last six months is 311 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,639 like we can really, really service customers and shippers 312 00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:53,679 way better than somebody who's right out of college or somebody 313 00:15:53,679 --> 00:15:57,200 overseas, you know, with that technology behind us. 314 00:15:57,279 --> 00:16:01,360 And so that's that's sort of the idea behind it is is how far can 315 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:01,759 we go? 316 00:16:01,919 --> 00:16:06,960 How how much can can we scale with that technology and and the 317 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,080 experience that we have? 318 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,080 SPEAKER_01: Well, it's a cool juxtaposition juxtaposition of 319 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,279 the name back callers referencing the early days of 320 00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:19,039 freight brokerage and deregulation and now this ultra 321 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,799 modern tech stack. 322 00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:29,600 Um the advantages that you have now not having legacy 323 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:30,399 technology. 324 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,039 Somebody who started a freight brokerage 10 years ago maybe had 325 00:16:35,039 --> 00:16:37,840 to make a decision of do I want to do this on the cloud or is 326 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,159 this an on-prem uh tech stack? 327 00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:45,039 On-prem is gone completely. 328 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,600 People most people don't even know what that means anymore. 329 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:54,879 And now you have the ability to uh multiply people um across all 330 00:16:54,879 --> 00:16:58,960 of the endless tasks and workflows that happen in 331 00:16:58,960 --> 00:16:59,840 transportation. 332 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:05,359 Um but how do you the the the downside risks are some of that 333 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,279 tech is still so new that we don't know how durable it is or 334 00:17:09,279 --> 00:17:11,599 how resilient it will be when something breaks. 335 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:16,319 And so how do you as an innovator also still build 336 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:21,359 something that you know is gonna stand up to um some shocks when 337 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,599 something goes bump in the night? 338 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,839 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a that's a great question. 339 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,640 I mean, and and I think um, you know, some of it is talking to 340 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,680 people in the industry, testing on a small scale, seeing what 341 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:34,000 works. 342 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,440 And there's there's things like highway that it's like, okay, we 343 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:38,079 know this works. 344 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,319 This is this is a great process. 345 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,359 Um, you know, and there's there's things like, okay, you 346 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:43,680 know what? 347 00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:46,960 This one's gonna be a bit of a we're we're we're testing this 348 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,680 one out, you know, we're we might be a bit of a guinea pig 349 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:50,160 for them. 350 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,599 And you know, we understand that we're gonna try it out for a 351 00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:54,880 little bit, see how it goes. 352 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,119 Sometimes some of those for us, at least on the first uh six 353 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,599 months or so, have worked out, some haven't. 354 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,759 Um, but usually our approach is test on a really small scale, 355 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,200 see how it goes. 356 00:18:07,519 --> 00:18:11,759 What works, great, multiply, amplify that, do more of that. 357 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,279 What doesn't work, okay. 358 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,119 Uh, you know, uh we stop doing, but you part of that, it like 359 00:18:17,279 --> 00:18:18,559 sounds great in theory, right? 360 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,319 But like, okay, but like you really have to give it your best 361 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:22,559 shot. 362 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,079 You really and what does that test, true test, look like to 363 00:18:26,079 --> 00:18:28,799 make sure that you're really testing the waters? 364 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,599 Because sometimes, you know, you try something, and if you don't 365 00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:36,880 really give it your best shot, or you don't really try to 366 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,960 implement it the right way, it might not work, and you're kind 367 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,680 of, you know, you're not really giving it a fair chance. 368 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,559 SPEAKER_01: So now that you're you're under a year in on both 369 00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:51,200 businesses, what has surprised you so far about the journey? 370 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:52,559 Whew. 371 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,440 SPEAKER_02: Harder than I thought it would be. 372 00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:55,680 SPEAKER_01: Okay. 373 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,319 SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's the short answer, right? 374 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:05,039 Like, I I think uh, you know, maybe going into it, maybe I had 375 00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:09,440 a bit of an ego that I was like, I'm gonna conquer the world. 376 00:19:09,599 --> 00:19:12,960 Like, I'm so smart, you know, I have I've got all this 377 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,079 knowledge, I'm so good. 378 00:19:14,319 --> 00:19:17,920 And what I've found like on the science of sales side, I've 379 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,799 totally reworked the process. 380 00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:25,200 And I've started from scratch several times and like thrown 381 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,559 out what I've done in the past, what I thought I believed was 382 00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:32,319 the best way, and and rebuilt like several times. 383 00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:36,640 The cool thing about bootstrapping and doing this a 384 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,119 hundred percent myself and owning a hundred percent of 385 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,279 science of sales is I can do that. 386 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,200 And I don't have to answer to an investor saying, Hey, like I 387 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,079 know what I sold you on a month ago, but like let me tell you, 388 00:19:48,319 --> 00:19:50,799 half of what I told you a month ago is just wrong. 389 00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:54,400 And I I'm pivoting into this other direction. 390 00:19:54,720 --> 00:20:01,519 And uh that's what I really like is is is just experimenting, uh, 391 00:20:01,759 --> 00:20:05,200 seeing what works, what doesn't, and then iterating from there. 392 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,279 And so yeah, what's what's been surprising is how hard it is. 393 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:14,319 Um and how how much how much harder it's it's been, how how 394 00:20:14,319 --> 00:20:16,000 fierce the competition is out there. 395 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:21,279 I mean, it's so easy to for companies to spin up a business 396 00:20:21,279 --> 00:20:21,839 nowadays. 397 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,119 I mean, creating websites, you can do a web, a pretty good 398 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:26,480 website in like two minutes. 399 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,279 Uh, you can lots of things, you can plug and play different SaaS 400 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:32,640 uh vendors. 401 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:36,720 Um, like I, you know, I do a lot of cold email and cold email 402 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:37,759 five years ago. 403 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,599 If you were great at setting up mailboxes and domains, like wow, 404 00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:42,720 you could do anything. 405 00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:44,880 And and if you could hit the inbox, great. 406 00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:49,359 Now there's 20 different vendors that can give you a billion 407 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:54,799 Microsoft, Google, or third-party SMTP mailboxes uh in 408 00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:55,599 overnight. 409 00:20:55,759 --> 00:21:00,079 So it's you know, it's just changed the game of how you have 410 00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:01,039 to approach things. 411 00:21:01,279 --> 00:21:03,200 Um, so yeah, it's harder. 412 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:08,319 And and with back haulers, I think I what I've what I've been 413 00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:14,000 surprised by is like doing my own bootstrapping thing while 414 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,119 it's been really fun, it's really lonely a lot of the time. 415 00:21:17,279 --> 00:21:20,720 You know, I have nobody to share in those wins or or losses with 416 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:20,880 me. 417 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,480 It's just me against against the world, and that's fun, but it's 418 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:25,680 also really lonely. 419 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,839 Uh, the back hauler side has been way more fun than I thought 420 00:21:29,839 --> 00:21:30,240 it would be. 421 00:21:30,319 --> 00:21:33,119 I kind of went into it going, I've been doing logistics and 422 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:33,920 brokerage a while. 423 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,279 I kind of want to get out, but I find myself more and more being 424 00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:38,720 like, I really love logistics. 425 00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:42,319 There's something about this industry that's just so, so 426 00:21:42,319 --> 00:21:43,359 freaking fun. 427 00:21:43,839 --> 00:21:45,920 SPEAKER_00: How did you choose your co-founders? 428 00:21:46,319 --> 00:21:48,000 SPEAKER_02: So we all are friends. 429 00:21:48,079 --> 00:21:51,839 We've been friends and known each other um from Cowan days 430 00:21:51,839 --> 00:21:52,640 back in the day. 431 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:58,799 Uh and you know, we uh luckily, luckily we all get along super 432 00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:01,039 well, know each other's strengths and weaknesses. 433 00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:03,839 We, you know, get into disagreements all the time on 434 00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:06,559 different directions or different, you know, ways we 435 00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:10,079 should go, but we all have a mutual respect for each other, 436 00:22:10,319 --> 00:22:12,240 and that's been really cool. 437 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,400 And yeah, it's just been a lot of fun. 438 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,160 And and and going backwards in time, like if I hadn't known how 439 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,519 bad the freight market would be this year, I would have been 440 00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:23,759 like, you don't know what you're getting into. 441 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,599 This is gonna be way harder than you think. 442 00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:30,079 I know you think you're gonna dominate, but but it's been so 443 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,759 that's made our success this year with Bachaulers been so 444 00:22:33,759 --> 00:22:38,160 much sweeter because of how hard the freight market is. 445 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,680 And we know like we're gonna we're gonna just knock it out of 446 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,759 the park once the once the market rebounds in, you know, 447 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,359 2030 or 2035, whenever, whenever that is, you know. 448 00:22:49,759 --> 00:22:52,480 SPEAKER_01: So when I think about co-founding teams, uh and 449 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,759 you kind of hinted at this complementary skills and 450 00:22:55,759 --> 00:22:58,240 strengths, that's the fun part of it. 451 00:22:58,319 --> 00:23:00,640 Like, hey, I'm good at sales, you're good at ops, and you're 452 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:01,200 good at finance. 453 00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:02,960 Cool, we've got this all figured out. 454 00:23:03,279 --> 00:23:07,920 Um then the other part you hinted at, though, is conflict 455 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,160 because they're you're gonna disagree about strategy at 456 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,960 times, or somebody's gonna feel like I'm doing more than the 457 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,400 other person, I'm putting more time in, and my effort is worth 458 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:16,720 more. 459 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:22,799 And the the downside of having co-founders is your vision might 460 00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:25,759 not always align, or sometimes it can impact the relationship. 461 00:23:25,839 --> 00:23:28,640 You can start as friends, and after working together for 10 462 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,400 years, you're like, you know what, we're not friends anymore. 463 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,720 Now we're just business partners, and that's okay. 464 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,200 Uh and in the worst of situations, they there's a 465 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,079 falling out. 466 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,960 Um, did you all talk about the risks of working with friends? 467 00:23:41,839 --> 00:23:46,000 SPEAKER_02: You know, I think we were too dumb and naive when we 468 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,079 started not to really think about it. 469 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,000 We were just like, yeah, let's go. 470 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:51,200 Let's go. 471 00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:55,440 Um yeah, that's I mean, that's a great point. 472 00:23:55,519 --> 00:23:56,160 It changes. 473 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,519 The relationship does change and it's it's different. 474 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,720 I mean, it's helpful because we've I guess we've known each 475 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:05,920 other in a work setting. 476 00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:09,839 So we know it's not like we're going into it just as friends, 477 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:10,319 yeah. 478 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,759 You know, in that sense, but but it also does change when you're 479 00:24:13,759 --> 00:24:14,799 co-founders together. 480 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,119 You know, that dynamic is different because it's like, 481 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,599 okay, this person's not my boss or my coworker. 482 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,920 No, they're my they're in it with me. 483 00:24:22,079 --> 00:24:24,720 And there's always that, you know, in the back of your mind, 484 00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:26,880 it's like, am I working harder than other people? 485 00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:28,799 Am I working not as hard as other people? 486 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,200 Am I adding more value or less value? 487 00:24:31,519 --> 00:24:32,960 And I don't know. 488 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,920 I try to just constantly recheck my ego and also recheck like my 489 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,799 own, like, it's it's all about the business and being a team 490 00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:43,200 player. 491 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:48,319 And just it's not the and the cool thing is kind of when I 492 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,160 feel like okay, ah, I would do things a little bit differently 493 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:52,960 with backhaulers. 494 00:24:53,279 --> 00:24:54,319 I would go in this direction. 495 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,599 I can kind of put that energy into science of sales and be 496 00:24:57,599 --> 00:25:01,920 like, yeah, well, science of sales is is all 100% my vision. 497 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,240 It's sort of like my, you know, solo project versus my my uh 498 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,079 albums with the band, you know. 499 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:09,119 I like that. 500 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:10,559 Yeah, yeah, totally. 501 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,920 Uh, but the albums with the band are usually the best albums, you 502 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,720 know, and it's like every because you see those other the 503 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,519 strengths are more highlighted and the weaknesses are are kind 504 00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:20,559 of hid, right? 505 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,440 And and that's what's been fun about batholors, I think. 506 00:25:23,839 --> 00:25:25,920 SPEAKER_01: What is your typical day like then? 507 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:34,319 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so my day is I my my only rule really for my 508 00:25:34,319 --> 00:25:38,480 business has been I don't set an alarm anymore. 509 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,000 And I just sort of start my day when I start it. 510 00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:46,799 So I don't start any, I don't have any morning meetings um uh 511 00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:50,480 and everything sort of starts for me, like starts for me in 512 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:56,640 the afternoon, but I sort of get into the day and just go where I 513 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,200 need to go. 514 00:25:57,279 --> 00:26:02,559 And I sort of prioritize things and then I don't know, the days 515 00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:03,599 sort of blend together. 516 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,920 I just I don't necessarily have you know that like nine to five 517 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,759 Monday through Friday week anymore, but every day is fun, 518 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,359 every day is different, and I just try to stay fo hyper 519 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,920 focused on a specific task, and then I move to the next task and 520 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,519 hyper focus on that test. 521 00:26:21,759 --> 00:26:26,480 So it, you know, some days it's like 99% backhaulers work, some 522 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:32,160 days it's you know, it's more balanced, but it's uh it's I I 523 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,720 don't have a great answer for that, other than every day's a 524 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,640 blur and I'm I'm figuring it out. 525 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,240 SPEAKER_01: I think that is a great answer. 526 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,759 I mean, for this, again, the stage that you're in, it could 527 00:26:43,759 --> 00:26:46,240 look fundamentally different in six months. 528 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,839 That's why I think the the period that you're in is so 529 00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:54,720 fascinating to me, because you you start with an idea and a ton 530 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,480 of desire and then the world pushes back. 531 00:26:58,720 --> 00:26:59,920 And then it's like not so fast. 532 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,160 Uh here's a problem, here's an obstacle, here's a competitor, 533 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,519 and you have to keep overcoming that year after year after year 534 00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:13,920 to build something valuable and something that's meaningful. 535 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,519 So when you think about uh and you're also kind of crafting a 536 00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:23,759 life, a lifestyle that is less nine to five and commute and 537 00:27:24,319 --> 00:27:27,279 prescribe what you do is prescribed for you, and you have 538 00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:28,960 a lot more autonomy and independence. 539 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,240 That can come with a lack of discipline for some folks, but 540 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,640 it sounds like you've managed to find a way to um time block and 541 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,480 do other things to make that uh to still be productive in that 542 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:40,880 setting. 543 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,039 But when you start to think about uh more than just making a 544 00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:48,480 paycheck and um you know providing for your needs and 545 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,920 such, is there any other bigger why behind some of what you do 546 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,680 that as you quietly dream what is this gonna look like in five, 547 00:27:57,759 --> 00:27:59,920 ten, fifteen years that keeps you going? 548 00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:00,960 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 549 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,839 I mean, for me, I you know, I was always dreaming about being 550 00:28:05,839 --> 00:28:09,279 an entrepreneur when I didn't know any better and when I was 551 00:28:09,279 --> 00:28:10,400 just in brokerage. 552 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:16,720 I would listen to the Mixergy uh podcast, uh, you know, the the I 553 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,000 forget what that one's even called. 554 00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:20,799 It's like the startup guide or something like that. 555 00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:21,359 SPEAKER_00: Okay. 556 00:28:21,759 --> 00:28:26,160 SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh I would always be like, oh man, I could 557 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,079 totally do this, I could totally do this. 558 00:28:28,319 --> 00:28:30,480 But it's I I never had that confidence. 559 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,680 I think for me, what it took for me to go like, okay, I need to 560 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,599 just go out and do this and and stop thinking about it and stop 561 00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:43,200 dreaming about it and just do it was, you know, sort of around 562 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:43,680 the times. 563 00:28:43,759 --> 00:28:47,839 I I talk about the freight music video parody stuff as like in a 564 00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:49,279 very positive light a lot. 565 00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:52,319 I think of like, yeah, it was this awesome creative outlet. 566 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,720 But also for me, you know, I really struggled with the 567 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,279 corporate politics and corporate structure of working at a 568 00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:01,759 company. 569 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,799 And I found it just really like weighing on me and really it 570 00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:08,160 wasn't good for my soul. 571 00:29:08,319 --> 00:29:10,640 Like I knew that and I could feel that in my bones. 572 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,880 And my body started to really like like was telling me some, 573 00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:16,400 hey, something's not right here. 574 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,799 Like, you need to do something different. 575 00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:24,720 And so for me, I think as hard as this year has been, like, way 576 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,519 harder than I thought it was gonna be, way more work than I 577 00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:28,720 thought it was gonna be. 578 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:34,400 It's been so much fun and feels so much more fulfilling. 579 00:29:35,359 --> 00:29:39,680 And there's something about taking on problems or helping 580 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,079 people and genuinely just figuring it out and building 581 00:29:44,079 --> 00:29:48,079 that airplane while it's you know in the air, that's just 582 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,400 way, way too exciting not to do. 583 00:29:50,559 --> 00:29:56,000 And so I think I just I'm now kind of focused on building and 584 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,839 creating and doing so that I can like sustain. 585 00:30:00,319 --> 00:30:04,240 This lifestyle of like just being an entrepreneur because I 586 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:05,119 don't want to go. 587 00:30:05,279 --> 00:30:06,640 I don't want to go back. 588 00:30:07,839 --> 00:30:11,519 SPEAKER_01: We're a non-video podcast, so listener, you can't 589 00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:14,559 see this, but Ben's eyes and face have been lighting up for 590 00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:19,920 the last 90 seconds as he's described this new environment 591 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:20,720 that he is in. 592 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:29,119 That's awesome to have found a climate almost that is better 593 00:30:29,119 --> 00:30:30,400 suited to you. 594 00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:34,640 Nobody can outwork you in that climate. 595 00:30:35,119 --> 00:30:36,880 Because you're not you're not competing with anybody else. 596 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:37,680 There are no rules. 597 00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:39,200 It's whatever you get to set. 598 00:30:39,359 --> 00:30:43,359 And when you find the kind of work that is challenging and 599 00:30:43,359 --> 00:30:46,799 stimulating, but that you've got competency in, and you get to do 600 00:30:46,799 --> 00:30:49,920 it in a way that's true to who you are as a human being and 601 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,599 with your own values. 602 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,680 You say you don't work a ton in the morning, but I bet you work 603 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,759 pretty late into the evening and you sometimes don't even know 604 00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:02,160 what time it is because you're so in it. 605 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:03,039 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. 606 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,880 I I so I don't set an alarm, but sometimes, you know, sometimes 607 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,200 I'll wake up like I woke up the other day at 2 a.m. 608 00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:11,519 and I was like, oh, I've I've got an idea. 609 00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:12,400 I got to start working. 610 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:12,559 Yeah. 611 00:31:12,799 --> 00:31:15,279 And it's like you just get up and you start going. 612 00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:20,880 And, you know, yeah, it's it's just this idea of I think maybe 613 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,359 a lot of what used to weigh on me, I think, in the past in the 614 00:31:23,359 --> 00:31:26,559 in a corporate role was like this idea of like somebody is 615 00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:28,720 always watching you and looking over your shoulder. 616 00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:30,240 And it's like, are you on task? 617 00:31:30,319 --> 00:31:32,000 Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing? 618 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,559 Are you at your computer when I want you to be at your computer? 619 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,920 And it's, you know, when you have investors, you have 620 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,559 clients, there is an element of that, but it is different. 621 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,480 And I'm trying to structure science of sales and it's even 622 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,519 my pricing models with clients in a way where I really take 623 00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:57,279 that pressure and put it all back on me and science of sales 624 00:31:57,279 --> 00:31:58,160 to perform. 625 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:03,839 And I love betting on myself and taking chances with clients and 626 00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:08,000 doing free work or doing, hey, I'm gonna do pay per for 627 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,839 performance because I'd rather that kind of pressure than the 628 00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:16,079 pressure of, hey, here's you're you're paying me this fee, and 629 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,400 you know, I promise that I'm gonna perform for you. 630 00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:22,400 So it's been experimenting with a bit of of pricing models too, 631 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,279 to figure out like how I can get that kind of kind of uh workflow 632 00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:27,920 and energy. 633 00:32:28,319 --> 00:32:30,799 SPEAKER_01: But congratulations on taking the leap. 634 00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:33,680 That is usually the hardest part. 635 00:32:33,839 --> 00:32:36,319 A whole bunch of hard comes after you've taken the leap and 636 00:32:36,319 --> 00:32:38,240 you're finding all that stuff out now, too. 637 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,160 But the the conviction and courage to leave the relative or 638 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,440 perceived safety of the corporate nest and go off and 639 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:46,000 build something. 640 00:32:46,079 --> 00:32:52,160 I mean, that is the most kind of American dream slash um you know 641 00:32:52,319 --> 00:32:56,559 rugged individualism and self-reliance, pull yourself up 642 00:32:56,559 --> 00:33:01,359 by your own bootstraps kind of mentality that has driven 643 00:33:01,599 --> 00:33:04,559 progress here for centuries. 644 00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:08,960 I mean, it is that's why these to me, these stories are still 645 00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:11,200 your story, is still inspiring to me. 646 00:33:11,359 --> 00:33:14,640 It's not so much about logistics, although I love 647 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,720 supply chain, I love the industry. 648 00:33:17,839 --> 00:33:23,680 The stories and the uh of people risking everything and betting 649 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,759 on themselves, um, in some cases against all logic. 650 00:33:28,079 --> 00:33:32,240 Um, it doesn't make any sense on paper, and yet you still do it. 651 00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:35,920 I mean, how can you not root for somebody going through that? 652 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,359 It is so cool to me. 653 00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:42,799 So, my question to you then is I I'm inspired by your story, I'm 654 00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:43,839 inspired by all these stories. 655 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,039 Who inspires you? 656 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:46,319 Last question. 657 00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:48,640 SPEAKER_02: That's a good one. 658 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,440 You know, I think that's a great question. 659 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:54,880 You stumped me. 660 00:33:55,039 --> 00:34:01,680 Um you know, I I'm inspired by people who genuinely do good in 661 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,680 the world and help others, I think, and who are like very 662 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:06,960 mission-driven. 663 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,000 Um and when I talk to those kind of people, that really gets me 664 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,000 excited because it's I think it's very easy to especially, 665 00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:21,039 you know, I do cold outreach for for different companies and and 666 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:21,840 different people. 667 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,960 And there's there's some companies that are are more fun 668 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,360 to sell for uh that than others. 669 00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:32,639 And there's and and there's there's something about aligning 670 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,280 with companies that you really believe in that is really, 671 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,519 really fun, and leaders and people that you really believe 672 00:34:41,519 --> 00:34:41,760 in. 673 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,880 Um, but yeah, what who who really inspires me? 674 00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:48,000 Yeah, people that that do good, I think people that are really 675 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:48,480 honest. 676 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,400 I think that was what struck me when we first had our first 677 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:58,960 conversation, you know, in uh wherever it was at a conference 678 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,360 a couple years ago, was like, wow, I can tell Nate's got this 679 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,880 level of honesty that's really interesting. 680 00:35:07,039 --> 00:35:10,960 And I always like connecting with people that, yeah, you 681 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,079 know, there's this level of transparency, and you kind of 682 00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:19,440 get beneath the BS that's that's uh that you can kind of have 683 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,480 real conversations with, and that's that's really cool. 684 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:23,920 SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much. 685 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:25,760 I felt the same way. 686 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,679 That that's that's part of why um we've stayed in touch all 687 00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:32,559 these years, is we had one small interaction, I think it was in 688 00:35:32,559 --> 00:35:34,880 Tennessee, in like 2021. 689 00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:38,079 And four years later, here we are, and I'm getting to share 690 00:35:38,079 --> 00:35:39,039 your story. 691 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,440 Um because I feel the same way. 692 00:35:41,519 --> 00:35:45,519 I I too am inspired by people that um are trying to do 693 00:35:45,519 --> 00:35:47,039 something bigger than just make a buck. 694 00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:48,079 You have to make a buck. 695 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,719 A business cannot sustain itself unless it operates at a high 696 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,719 level of financial efficiency and adds value to its customers. 697 00:35:57,039 --> 00:36:00,559 But if that's all that it's about, then it's just soulless 698 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,320 um chasing of money. 699 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,079 And that is not appealing. 700 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,880 Um, it's because when the money dries up, so will your 701 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:07,360 motivation. 702 00:36:07,519 --> 00:36:09,599 And if you're gonna be in this for the long haul, you gotta 703 00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:12,159 love it whether you make money or not, because there are going 704 00:36:12,159 --> 00:36:13,599 to be periods where you don't. 705 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,440 And to be able to do that in a way that's true to your values 706 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,400 and and good for other people at the same time is a higher 707 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:22,880 calling. 708 00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:27,199 And so I'm I'm glad to hear you unpack some of that. 709 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:33,360 Um it explains part of who I knew you already were, um, but 710 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:34,800 more clearly. 711 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,119 SPEAKER_02: There's so many interesting paradoxes of owning 712 00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:43,199 your own business and being an entrepreneur, like it's harder 713 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,639 and both easier or more fun at the same time, you know? 714 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,719 And it's more lonely, but also less lonely at the same time. 715 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,840 And you know, all of these things that are both true and 716 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:54,480 false. 717 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,840 SPEAKER_01: And that is going to end up being somehow the title 718 00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,039 of this episode. 719 00:36:59,199 --> 00:37:03,199 Um because, like I said, it's it's irreverent and it's 720 00:37:03,199 --> 00:37:03,920 intelligent. 721 00:37:04,159 --> 00:37:09,039 You've got ultra modern on one hand and uh a throwback name of 722 00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:14,719 backhaulers on the other, and massive technology wave that 723 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,599 we're in, and you're choosing to focus on one-on-one 724 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,039 relationships and you're you're finding your way. 725 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,800 There's no chance that we're not going to keep rooting for you. 726 00:37:25,039 --> 00:37:28,400 Um, I'm so thrilled for where you are at on your journey. 727 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,320 I can't wait to find out a year from now if it if the vision is 728 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,880 still the same or if it if there's been 14 pivots in 729 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:35,599 between. 730 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,079 Um, I hope you get some more sleep. 731 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,719 Um I wish you tons of success, and thanks for sharing your 732 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:43,119 story. 733 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:44,480 Thanks, Dave. 734 00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:49,599 Thanks for listening to another episode of the Bootstrapper's 735 00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:50,639 Guide to Logistics. 736 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,760 And a special thank you to our sponsors and the team behind the 737 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,280 scenes who make it all possible. 738 00:37:55,519 --> 00:37:58,559 Be sure to like, follow, or subscribe to the podcast to get 739 00:37:58,559 --> 00:37:59,679 the latest updates. 740 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,559 To learn more about the show and connect with the growing 741 00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:06,079 community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounders.com. 742 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,760 And of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to 743 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:10,960 share their stories.