1 00:00:33,020 --> 00:00:35,340 SPEAKER_01: Hello, and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to 2 00:00:35,340 --> 00:00:37,980 Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it 3 00:00:37,980 --> 00:00:39,820 the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 4 00:00:40,060 --> 00:00:42,619 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and 5 00:00:42,619 --> 00:00:44,539 inspiring others to take the lead. 6 00:00:44,939 --> 00:00:48,060 It's a roller coaster ride that you might ultimately build. 7 00:00:48,460 --> 00:00:50,460 That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 8 00:00:51,260 --> 00:00:52,219 It works very hard. 9 00:00:52,539 --> 00:00:54,939 It truly is building a legacy of the state. 10 00:00:55,260 --> 00:00:57,820 SPEAKER_02: The more life you live, the more wisdom you have. 11 00:00:58,299 --> 00:01:01,500 Because we are where we're supposed to be and answering the 12 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:01,659 call. 13 00:01:02,219 --> 00:01:04,939 SPEAKER_01: Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 14 00:01:05,180 --> 00:01:06,620 I'm your host, H2. 15 00:01:07,180 --> 00:01:09,900 Let's build something together from the ground up. 16 00:01:12,620 --> 00:01:16,060 Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Bootstrapper's Guide 17 00:01:16,060 --> 00:01:16,859 to Logistics. 18 00:01:16,939 --> 00:01:19,579 Um, like I've been saying recently, we're still doing 19 00:01:19,740 --> 00:01:22,700 right now what we've been doing for years now. 20 00:01:23,020 --> 00:01:26,299 Shocking to say that it's been years, but we are telling 21 00:01:26,299 --> 00:01:30,539 straightforward, simple stories about not so simple things that 22 00:01:30,539 --> 00:01:34,140 freight founders and supply chain entrepreneurs uh have to 23 00:01:34,140 --> 00:01:39,180 go through to take their ideas from conception to reality. 24 00:01:39,579 --> 00:01:43,340 And then once you're in the reality, all the highs and lows 25 00:01:43,340 --> 00:01:44,620 that go along with that. 26 00:01:44,859 --> 00:01:48,459 And there's nothing flashy about that, it is just actual people 27 00:01:48,459 --> 00:01:49,659 doing good work. 28 00:01:50,140 --> 00:01:55,099 And it has been for me one of the great joys of my 29 00:01:55,099 --> 00:01:58,700 professional life to just get to feature people that otherwise 30 00:01:58,700 --> 00:02:01,900 don't get a ton of attention because they're too busy working 31 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:05,340 to um go out and market their businesses and and do things 32 00:02:05,340 --> 00:02:05,739 like that. 33 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:08,780 And so if you've been listening for all of that time, I want to 34 00:02:08,780 --> 00:02:09,420 say thank you. 35 00:02:09,579 --> 00:02:12,300 And if this is the first time you're hearing the show, I'm 36 00:02:12,300 --> 00:02:12,699 sorry. 37 00:02:12,860 --> 00:02:16,219 Um you've missed about 110 great stories. 38 00:02:16,300 --> 00:02:20,459 So you've got a library of um inspiration and education you 39 00:02:20,459 --> 00:02:24,060 can uh go back to if you are so inclined and if you're on the 40 00:02:24,060 --> 00:02:25,740 fence about maybe taking the leap. 41 00:02:25,980 --> 00:02:28,780 I'm excited today that you're gonna get to hear from somebody 42 00:02:28,780 --> 00:02:33,340 who is early in their journey and is maybe gonna be able to 43 00:02:33,340 --> 00:02:36,699 give you some insights on what the early stages of starting a 44 00:02:36,699 --> 00:02:38,139 company is actually like. 45 00:02:38,300 --> 00:02:41,259 So that's a long intro, longer than usual. 46 00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:44,379 I've had too much coffee this morning, but I would like to 47 00:02:44,379 --> 00:02:47,740 welcome our guest today, Ben Shurgey, who is the founder of 48 00:02:47,740 --> 00:02:51,500 Science of Sales and the co-founder of Bachaulers. 49 00:02:51,580 --> 00:02:52,139 Ben, good morning. 50 00:02:52,219 --> 00:02:52,939 How are you today? 51 00:02:53,340 --> 00:02:54,060 SPEAKER_02: Good morning. 52 00:02:54,219 --> 00:02:55,180 I am doing well. 53 00:02:55,259 --> 00:02:56,699 Thanks for having me on, Nate. 54 00:02:56,780 --> 00:02:59,020 I'm really uh really excited to chat with you. 55 00:02:59,419 --> 00:03:01,740 SPEAKER_01: Well, you and I first met, I think at a 56 00:03:01,740 --> 00:03:06,539 conference, I'm gonna guess three years ago, and kind of 57 00:03:06,539 --> 00:03:07,900 instantly hit it off. 58 00:03:08,060 --> 00:03:13,819 Um, this was kind of in the middle of the COVID um freight 59 00:03:13,819 --> 00:03:20,139 boom and also uh a major rise in social media activity, in 60 00:03:20,139 --> 00:03:21,659 logistics in particular. 61 00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:23,900 And you stand out in my mind. 62 00:03:24,060 --> 00:03:26,539 I'm sure you get asked these kinds of questions all the time, 63 00:03:26,699 --> 00:03:31,500 but you stand out to me as one of the key people that seized 64 00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:35,819 the moment between those two events happening um and carved 65 00:03:35,819 --> 00:03:39,340 out a space for you in a big industry that you're now one of 66 00:03:39,340 --> 00:03:42,620 the most, in my opinion, memorable and recognizable 67 00:03:42,620 --> 00:03:48,300 people that has done a lot of fun stuff. 68 00:03:48,539 --> 00:03:52,219 Um so can for those who aren't aware, can you explain what that 69 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:53,819 what I what I just what I just said? 70 00:03:53,900 --> 00:03:55,020 What did that all mean? 71 00:03:55,259 --> 00:03:56,060 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it. 72 00:03:56,139 --> 00:03:57,979 No, it's it's really funny you put it that way. 73 00:03:58,060 --> 00:04:03,020 I and you know, like prior to doing any content or like doing 74 00:04:03,020 --> 00:04:06,139 anything on social media, LinkedIn or Twitter or anything, 75 00:04:06,219 --> 00:04:10,219 or it was it was Twitter back then, um, you know, like I would 76 00:04:10,219 --> 00:04:13,020 log on to LinkedIn every once in a while, and there were people 77 00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:17,019 that I would kind of follow, and I was like definitely a LinkedIn 78 00:04:17,180 --> 00:04:20,379 lurker and like Charlie at CS recruiting, like was always 79 00:04:20,460 --> 00:04:24,220 like, wow, like and she's doing some awesome content, and it was 80 00:04:24,220 --> 00:04:27,259 like, you know, it seems like she's killing it, but like there 81 00:04:27,259 --> 00:04:31,100 just wasn't like maybe like pre-2020, it seems like there 82 00:04:31,100 --> 00:04:33,419 really wasn't content out there, right? 83 00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:38,060 Especially in logistics, like LinkedIn, it just wasn't really 84 00:04:38,060 --> 00:04:38,699 a thing. 85 00:04:38,939 --> 00:04:43,980 Um, and then you know, I started to like Steam Logistics started 86 00:04:43,980 --> 00:04:47,419 to do a lot of posting, and it was like kind of caught my 87 00:04:47,419 --> 00:04:47,980 attention too. 88 00:04:48,139 --> 00:04:51,579 That was maybe like I'm thinking early 2020 is when I remember 89 00:04:51,579 --> 00:04:54,540 seeing Steam Logistics stuff all the time. 90 00:04:54,779 --> 00:04:59,019 Um and uh I was kind of like, you know, I really want to. 91 00:04:59,100 --> 00:05:03,259 It's social, I didn't know anything about social media, and 92 00:05:03,259 --> 00:05:06,220 I was never really good at it or put much energy into it. 93 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:09,100 And I was like, I'm gonna give it a shot and just start doing 94 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:10,139 crazy stuff. 95 00:05:10,379 --> 00:05:13,500 And I started posting first, it was just text, and then it 96 00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:16,699 became eventually somehow snowballed into freight music 97 00:05:16,699 --> 00:05:17,579 video parodies. 98 00:05:17,660 --> 00:05:22,860 I don't know how, but yeah, like partially it was like, you know, 99 00:05:23,100 --> 00:05:25,899 it was such a wild time era in freight. 100 00:05:26,220 --> 00:05:29,339 Uh everything there were there were good vibes all around. 101 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:32,699 It was like, hey, why not do a freight music video parody? 102 00:05:32,779 --> 00:05:35,980 And also my bosses at the time didn't care because we were 103 00:05:35,980 --> 00:05:37,100 doing so well as a company. 104 00:05:37,180 --> 00:05:40,620 It was like, okay, Ben's over here doing some weird stuff, but 105 00:05:40,699 --> 00:05:42,620 like we're doing great, so who cares? 106 00:05:42,779 --> 00:05:43,420 You know. 107 00:05:44,060 --> 00:05:47,740 SPEAKER_01: Um, what uh maybe it doesn't get recognized by 108 00:05:47,740 --> 00:05:50,060 others, but I'm but does get recognized by me. 109 00:05:50,139 --> 00:05:51,819 I'm a musician myself. 110 00:05:53,019 --> 00:05:56,540 What you were doing is very fun and irreverent. 111 00:05:56,939 --> 00:06:01,180 Um, and it was kind of a laughter, uh created a lot of 112 00:06:01,180 --> 00:06:04,139 laughter and and positivity in kind of some challenging times. 113 00:06:04,220 --> 00:06:06,779 So that was kind of like the first layer of oh, this is 114 00:06:06,779 --> 00:06:07,259 interesting. 115 00:06:07,579 --> 00:06:10,779 Logistics has kind of been boring as an industry for a very 116 00:06:10,779 --> 00:06:13,100 long time, and now there's some liveliness to it. 117 00:06:13,339 --> 00:06:17,980 But behind that, there is genuine talent. 118 00:06:18,620 --> 00:06:23,500 You are actually a gifted musician, and the way that you 119 00:06:23,500 --> 00:06:28,300 went about um writing this, a lot of these parody songs, is 120 00:06:28,300 --> 00:06:29,660 very intelligent. 121 00:06:29,980 --> 00:06:34,300 And I what I love, my one of my favorite comedians is Conan 122 00:06:34,459 --> 00:06:37,980 O'Brien, and he goes, My goal is to be at the intersection of 123 00:06:37,980 --> 00:06:39,899 really smart and really dumb. 124 00:06:40,379 --> 00:06:43,019 Um he straddles that line perfectly. 125 00:06:43,180 --> 00:06:47,339 And you straddle this line between really intelligent and 126 00:06:47,339 --> 00:06:51,740 really approachable at the same time in the content that you 127 00:06:51,740 --> 00:06:52,220 created. 128 00:06:52,459 --> 00:06:55,339 And so if you haven't heard that before, I just want to pour that 129 00:06:55,339 --> 00:06:57,980 into you that it was it's not just silly goofy stuff. 130 00:06:58,139 --> 00:07:03,660 There is some genuine um talent and craft behind it. 131 00:07:04,060 --> 00:07:05,579 SPEAKER_02: Oh, that that means a lot. 132 00:07:05,660 --> 00:07:06,459 Thanks, Nate. 133 00:07:06,540 --> 00:07:10,459 Yeah, I I I put a lot of energy into it for a period of time 134 00:07:10,620 --> 00:07:13,819 where I I don't know, it was like just an awesome creative 135 00:07:13,819 --> 00:07:16,939 outlet where I was like, wow, I get to do something and then 136 00:07:16,939 --> 00:07:20,540 share this with people who get all the inside jokes of 137 00:07:20,540 --> 00:07:21,180 logistics. 138 00:07:21,339 --> 00:07:24,699 And it's like, you know, this super fun thing, as opposed to 139 00:07:24,779 --> 00:07:27,660 like before, you know, just like creating music or different. 140 00:07:27,980 --> 00:07:30,779 I do like different short film competitions with my wife. 141 00:07:30,860 --> 00:07:33,500 My wife's a filmmaker, so we do lots of creative projects 142 00:07:33,500 --> 00:07:33,899 together. 143 00:07:34,060 --> 00:07:36,379 And usually, you know, you do something, you go to a film 144 00:07:36,379 --> 00:07:38,620 festival, and there's like five or ten other people sitting 145 00:07:38,620 --> 00:07:41,019 around, and it's like, yay, you're all patting each other on 146 00:07:41,019 --> 00:07:41,899 the back, and it's great. 147 00:07:42,060 --> 00:07:46,220 But doing something, you know, that there's at least, you know, 148 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:49,180 at the time, and there still isn't enough logistics content 149 00:07:49,180 --> 00:07:49,500 out there. 150 00:07:49,579 --> 00:07:52,699 I mean, a lot of there's a lot of podcasts out there, but a lot 151 00:07:52,699 --> 00:07:54,139 is kind of a relative term. 152 00:07:54,300 --> 00:08:00,139 Like, I mean, there's still not enough for you know the how much 153 00:08:00,459 --> 00:08:04,779 um how much business is out there, how much logistics news 154 00:08:04,779 --> 00:08:05,579 is out there. 155 00:08:05,819 --> 00:08:08,779 Um, but I don't know, a long way to say. 156 00:08:08,939 --> 00:08:09,500 I don't know. 157 00:08:10,379 --> 00:08:13,339 It was really just there was something about that time period 158 00:08:13,339 --> 00:08:17,259 of like 2020 to 2023 of just like needing some sort of weird 159 00:08:17,259 --> 00:08:21,019 creative outlet with everything going on, and and it was it was 160 00:08:21,019 --> 00:08:21,180 fun. 161 00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:23,420 SPEAKER_01: I've also not heard anybody describe it quite that 162 00:08:23,420 --> 00:08:23,579 way. 163 00:08:23,740 --> 00:08:24,459 It was an era. 164 00:08:24,699 --> 00:08:27,740 I mean, this podcast itself came out of that same era. 165 00:08:27,899 --> 00:08:31,819 Maybe if this industry ever got big enough and mattered um in 166 00:08:31,819 --> 00:08:34,779 the same way that they do music documentaries of the 60s or 70s, 167 00:08:34,940 --> 00:08:37,019 and then like, and then the mood in the country changed, and 168 00:08:37,019 --> 00:08:39,980 suddenly the the music shifted in this direction, and all of a 169 00:08:39,980 --> 00:08:43,100 sudden there's drums and you know electronics, and it 170 00:08:43,100 --> 00:08:44,779 signaled the end of the folk era. 171 00:08:45,259 --> 00:08:46,779 I think you're onto something there. 172 00:08:46,860 --> 00:08:50,460 There it was such a potent period of time in the world, 173 00:08:50,779 --> 00:08:55,740 people stuck at home and hobbies skyrocketed, and obviously the 174 00:08:55,740 --> 00:08:59,660 the transportation industry was booming during that period, and 175 00:09:00,139 --> 00:09:02,940 that air that era does seem to have changed. 176 00:09:03,500 --> 00:09:06,379 Um there is still tons of room for more content creators. 177 00:09:06,539 --> 00:09:09,980 If I go to LinkedIn, I'm genuine generally seeing the same 20 178 00:09:09,980 --> 00:09:11,019 people every day, and that's right. 179 00:09:11,419 --> 00:09:15,179 Uh because I I think I read a stat that said 99% of people on 180 00:09:15,179 --> 00:09:18,460 LinkedIn never create any content of any kind. 181 00:09:18,539 --> 00:09:23,100 Yeah, like they might post once a year, but they consume the 1% 182 00:09:24,299 --> 00:09:28,620 content that is created, and obviously AI has changed and 183 00:09:28,620 --> 00:09:29,820 kind of muddied the waters. 184 00:09:29,899 --> 00:09:35,500 A lot of the content is is not as authentic or um original as 185 00:09:35,500 --> 00:09:36,460 it used to be. 186 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:39,580 And I think that that has also heralded some of the end of that 187 00:09:39,580 --> 00:09:39,659 era. 188 00:09:39,899 --> 00:09:40,620 Would you agree? 189 00:09:41,019 --> 00:09:42,860 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it feels different now for sure. 190 00:09:42,940 --> 00:09:46,860 And and algorithm changes, like there was a time there where it 191 00:09:46,860 --> 00:09:51,419 was just really exploding, and and like it just felt like wow, 192 00:09:51,659 --> 00:09:53,019 I'm discovering all these people. 193 00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:54,940 Like, I discovered you, uh your podcast. 194 00:09:55,019 --> 00:09:55,820 I was like, wow. 195 00:09:55,980 --> 00:09:59,419 And learning about all of these other, it's like, wow, I didn't 196 00:09:59,419 --> 00:10:02,860 realize how many people go out and start their own logistics 197 00:10:02,860 --> 00:10:03,419 companies. 198 00:10:03,659 --> 00:10:07,419 Even like the rise of, I think of some of the like agent 199 00:10:07,419 --> 00:10:10,940 influencers and like learning about the agency model. 200 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:15,820 Whereas like when I was a W-2 rep, like for the first, I don't 201 00:10:15,820 --> 00:10:18,860 know, like five years, I didn't really know what an agency was 202 00:10:19,019 --> 00:10:20,700 or that that model existed. 203 00:10:20,940 --> 00:10:24,700 And I think a lot of W-2 brokerages try to like keep that 204 00:10:24,700 --> 00:10:25,500 under wraps, right? 205 00:10:25,740 --> 00:10:28,059 Like, don't don't know too, don't don't learn about that 206 00:10:28,059 --> 00:10:28,299 stuff. 207 00:10:28,379 --> 00:10:31,740 And it's like, you know, there was that explosion that's I 208 00:10:31,740 --> 00:10:34,860 think still out there of like, yeah, like these agency 209 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:38,539 recruiter influencers too, which is which is fun. 210 00:10:38,940 --> 00:10:44,860 SPEAKER_01: I also think that period opened up the possibility 211 00:10:44,860 --> 00:10:48,139 to actually be yourself and be professional at the same time. 212 00:10:48,379 --> 00:10:52,940 Before that, LinkedIn was very curated and it was more about um 213 00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:57,580 just job seeking, basically, and trying to present in such a way 214 00:10:57,580 --> 00:11:00,299 as to be attractive to recruiters or uh a potential 215 00:11:00,299 --> 00:11:00,940 employer. 216 00:11:01,259 --> 00:11:04,860 And those lines didn't get blurred, they totally broke open 217 00:11:04,940 --> 00:11:07,899 where it was no, we actually hire people, we don't hire 218 00:11:08,220 --> 00:11:09,100 positions. 219 00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:12,299 And there there became it became less formal. 220 00:11:12,539 --> 00:11:15,659 And maybe it's gone too far sometimes. 221 00:11:15,740 --> 00:11:18,460 You know, I mean now I'm seeing content that I'm like, that is 222 00:11:18,620 --> 00:11:22,620 that is not this is not the right medium for the content 223 00:11:22,620 --> 00:11:23,740 that I just saw. 224 00:11:23,980 --> 00:11:28,940 Um but again, that's part of the I think that era has has maybe 225 00:11:28,940 --> 00:11:29,179 ended. 226 00:11:29,259 --> 00:11:32,059 I mean, as I I hadn't really had some of these thoughts as 227 00:11:32,059 --> 00:11:35,820 conscious thoughts until this conversation, but I think you 228 00:11:35,820 --> 00:11:38,539 are you're definitely on to something. 229 00:11:38,779 --> 00:11:42,460 Um and then mirroring that to your own journey, you still are 230 00:11:42,460 --> 00:11:45,340 creating content and you're still doing all of those um 231 00:11:45,659 --> 00:11:51,500 creative outlets, but now you've added your own layer of the 232 00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:54,379 business side to it, um, not as a W-2. 233 00:11:54,860 --> 00:12:01,259 And so you have now started two companies um early in both. 234 00:12:01,419 --> 00:12:04,460 Can you I don't know how many minutes we're 10 minutes in now? 235 00:12:04,539 --> 00:12:06,460 SPEAKER_02: Can you tell people what you do? 236 00:12:07,179 --> 00:12:10,940 Yeah, I mean, but honestly, that that is a fun deep dive. 237 00:12:11,019 --> 00:12:14,220 I've I mean, content LinkedIn, especially LinkedIn logistics, 238 00:12:14,299 --> 00:12:15,659 deep dive is is awesome. 239 00:12:15,820 --> 00:12:17,100 Um, yeah, what do I do? 240 00:12:17,259 --> 00:12:18,139 That's a great question. 241 00:12:18,220 --> 00:12:23,179 I so I uh I go by the uh the mad sales scientists. 242 00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:26,379 I love, I've always loved, for whatever reason, I don't know 243 00:12:26,379 --> 00:12:29,259 why, I love cold outreach sales. 244 00:12:29,419 --> 00:12:32,700 Like outbound sales for me is just there's something about 245 00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:32,940 that. 246 00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:37,980 I find the same way I find doing freight music video parodies 247 00:12:37,980 --> 00:12:38,299 fun. 248 00:12:38,460 --> 00:12:40,620 I find cold outreach so fun. 249 00:12:40,779 --> 00:12:45,179 And it's like this creative, like uh this uh sort of like 250 00:12:45,179 --> 00:12:46,220 creative outlet. 251 00:12:46,379 --> 00:12:51,340 Um, and and it and actually, even recently, there's been an 252 00:12:51,340 --> 00:12:55,340 explosion of and sort of a new era of cold outreach. 253 00:12:55,419 --> 00:12:58,539 Um, so so yeah, again, back to your question, what do I do? 254 00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:03,019 I I help companies with cold outreach and get get companies 255 00:13:03,179 --> 00:13:05,500 leads, um, warm qualified leads. 256 00:13:05,740 --> 00:13:10,299 And it we're in this really interesting era and time where, 257 00:13:10,779 --> 00:13:16,059 like with AI and technology, similar to content creation, you 258 00:13:16,059 --> 00:13:21,580 can achieve outreach at scale, personalized outreach that looks 259 00:13:21,580 --> 00:13:25,500 really thoughtful, intentional, and really it's just an AI bot 260 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:29,740 that's sending you an email or LinkedIn connection request, or 261 00:13:30,059 --> 00:13:33,899 uh, you know, or you're being called by somebody on a parallel 262 00:13:33,899 --> 00:13:37,019 or power dialer who's calling eight numbers at the same time. 263 00:13:37,100 --> 00:13:42,220 And it's it's it's such an interesting era of like, what do 264 00:13:42,220 --> 00:13:46,059 we do with this technology to go back to like to me, what I love 265 00:13:46,059 --> 00:14:19,620 about cold outreach and helping companies with cold outreach is 266 00:14:19,620 --> 00:14:24,260 focusing on the human connection aspect and how we build start 267 00:14:24,420 --> 00:14:26,340 that meaningful relationship. 268 00:14:26,660 --> 00:14:32,660 Yes, leveraging technology, but like also using that in a way 269 00:14:32,660 --> 00:14:36,980 that's behind the scenes, and that prospect doesn't feel that 270 00:14:36,980 --> 00:14:40,100 automation and that that they're just a number. 271 00:14:40,260 --> 00:14:43,940 Um, so that's sort of what I do in a nutshell is help people get 272 00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:47,380 qualified leads and do it in what I think are smart, but 273 00:14:47,380 --> 00:14:50,020 sometimes also a bit silly ways. 274 00:14:50,420 --> 00:14:52,660 SPEAKER_01: So that's the science of sales side. 275 00:14:52,740 --> 00:14:55,220 And then you also have a new freight brokerage. 276 00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:56,020 Tell us about that. 277 00:14:56,420 --> 00:14:57,060 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. 278 00:14:57,220 --> 00:15:02,580 Uh so uh so at the I also started a a freight brokerage 279 00:15:02,580 --> 00:15:03,860 called Backhaulers. 280 00:15:04,020 --> 00:15:10,340 Um, and the idea behind that is really, you know, similarly, 281 00:15:10,660 --> 00:15:14,820 we're also entering a new era in logistics with AI and technology 282 00:15:14,980 --> 00:15:20,900 where, you know, there's things like Happy Robot or um all these 283 00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:25,060 different this different technology that can let you do 284 00:15:25,060 --> 00:15:26,260 more with less, right? 285 00:15:26,420 --> 00:15:31,140 And that's always the idea of I think logistics is how do we 286 00:15:31,140 --> 00:15:37,060 achieve scale um and with the lowest head count we possibly 287 00:15:37,060 --> 00:15:37,380 can. 288 00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:41,300 Um and I think a lot of brokerages for a while, it was 289 00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:44,260 like, okay, we're gonna hire reps right out of college, get 290 00:15:44,260 --> 00:15:46,660 them some basic training and throw them in there. 291 00:15:46,820 --> 00:15:48,420 Um, and you can scale that. 292 00:15:48,580 --> 00:15:51,620 And then it sort of shifted in my mind, at least, to like, 293 00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:56,180 okay, we're gonna do this without sourcing and hire labor 294 00:15:56,180 --> 00:16:00,340 overseas and help achieve that scale mostly on the operation 295 00:16:00,340 --> 00:16:00,580 side. 296 00:16:00,660 --> 00:16:03,780 So, okay, you can run pretty skinny on the operation side. 297 00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:06,980 And now we're sort of entering this era of like, oh, you can do 298 00:16:06,980 --> 00:16:10,820 that now with technology and you can really have a low head count 299 00:16:10,820 --> 00:16:11,620 with technology. 300 00:16:11,780 --> 00:16:14,740 But what I think is really cool, I think a lot of companies are 301 00:16:14,740 --> 00:16:20,180 kind of pairing the college rep model or the outsource model 302 00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:21,700 with technology. 303 00:16:21,860 --> 00:16:26,020 And what I think is really a cool opportunity is okay, what 304 00:16:26,020 --> 00:16:29,940 if we got uh, and and this is how we founded Bachaulers, like 305 00:16:30,020 --> 00:16:34,420 what if the four of us um who all have experience in freight 306 00:16:34,420 --> 00:16:38,500 brokerage and have been doing logistics for a long time were 307 00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:39,940 equipped with this technology? 308 00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:44,500 Like, how many shippers could we serve with the AI bot army 309 00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:45,540 helping us out? 310 00:16:45,780 --> 00:16:49,060 And what's been really cool to see over the last six months is 311 00:16:49,140 --> 00:16:52,580 like we can really, really service customers and shippers 312 00:16:52,580 --> 00:16:55,620 way better than somebody who's right out of college or somebody 313 00:16:55,620 --> 00:16:59,140 overseas, you know, with that technology behind us. 314 00:16:59,220 --> 00:17:03,300 And so that's that's sort of the idea behind it is is how far can 315 00:17:03,300 --> 00:17:03,700 we go? 316 00:17:03,860 --> 00:17:08,900 How how much can can we scale with that technology and and the 317 00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:10,019 experience that we have? 318 00:17:10,420 --> 00:17:14,019 SPEAKER_01: Well, it's a cool juxtaposition juxtaposition of 319 00:17:14,019 --> 00:17:17,220 the name back callers referencing the early days of 320 00:17:17,220 --> 00:17:20,980 freight brokerage and deregulation and now this ultra 321 00:17:21,140 --> 00:17:22,740 modern tech stack. 322 00:17:24,740 --> 00:17:31,539 Um the advantages that you have now not having legacy 323 00:17:31,539 --> 00:17:32,339 technology. 324 00:17:33,380 --> 00:17:36,980 Somebody who started a freight brokerage 10 years ago maybe had 325 00:17:36,980 --> 00:17:39,780 to make a decision of do I want to do this on the cloud or is 326 00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:42,099 this an on-prem uh tech stack? 327 00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:46,980 On-prem is gone completely. 328 00:17:47,140 --> 00:17:49,539 People most people don't even know what that means anymore. 329 00:17:49,780 --> 00:17:56,820 And now you have the ability to uh multiply people um across all 330 00:17:56,820 --> 00:18:00,900 of the endless tasks and workflows that happen in 331 00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:01,780 transportation. 332 00:18:02,340 --> 00:18:07,299 Um but how do you the the the downside risks are some of that 333 00:18:07,299 --> 00:18:11,220 tech is still so new that we don't know how durable it is or 334 00:18:11,220 --> 00:18:13,539 how resilient it will be when something breaks. 335 00:18:13,620 --> 00:18:18,259 And so how do you as an innovator also still build 336 00:18:18,259 --> 00:18:23,299 something that you know is gonna stand up to um some shocks when 337 00:18:23,940 --> 00:18:25,539 something goes bump in the night? 338 00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:27,779 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a that's a great question. 339 00:18:27,940 --> 00:18:32,580 I mean, and and I think um, you know, some of it is talking to 340 00:18:32,580 --> 00:18:35,620 people in the industry, testing on a small scale, seeing what 341 00:18:35,620 --> 00:18:35,940 works. 342 00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:39,380 And there's there's things like highway that it's like, okay, we 343 00:18:39,380 --> 00:18:40,019 know this works. 344 00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:42,259 This is this is a great process. 345 00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:45,299 Um, you know, and there's there's things like, okay, you 346 00:18:45,299 --> 00:18:45,620 know what? 347 00:18:45,779 --> 00:18:48,900 This one's gonna be a bit of a we're we're we're testing this 348 00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:51,620 one out, you know, we're we might be a bit of a guinea pig 349 00:18:51,620 --> 00:18:52,100 for them. 350 00:18:52,340 --> 00:18:55,539 And you know, we understand that we're gonna try it out for a 351 00:18:55,539 --> 00:18:56,820 little bit, see how it goes. 352 00:18:57,059 --> 00:19:01,059 Sometimes some of those for us, at least on the first uh six 353 00:19:01,059 --> 00:19:03,539 months or so, have worked out, some haven't. 354 00:19:03,620 --> 00:19:07,700 Um, but usually our approach is test on a really small scale, 355 00:19:07,940 --> 00:19:09,140 see how it goes. 356 00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:13,700 What works, great, multiply, amplify that, do more of that. 357 00:19:13,860 --> 00:19:15,220 What doesn't work, okay. 358 00:19:15,380 --> 00:19:19,059 Uh, you know, uh we stop doing, but you part of that, it like 359 00:19:19,220 --> 00:19:20,500 sounds great in theory, right? 360 00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:24,259 But like, okay, but like you really have to give it your best 361 00:19:24,259 --> 00:19:24,500 shot. 362 00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:28,019 You really and what does that test, true test, look like to 363 00:19:28,019 --> 00:19:30,740 make sure that you're really testing the waters? 364 00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:35,539 Because sometimes, you know, you try something, and if you don't 365 00:19:35,539 --> 00:19:38,820 really give it your best shot, or you don't really try to 366 00:19:38,820 --> 00:19:42,900 implement it the right way, it might not work, and you're kind 367 00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:45,620 of, you know, you're not really giving it a fair chance. 368 00:19:45,940 --> 00:19:48,500 SPEAKER_01: So now that you're you're under a year in on both 369 00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:53,140 businesses, what has surprised you so far about the journey? 370 00:19:53,860 --> 00:19:54,500 Whew. 371 00:19:55,860 --> 00:19:57,380 SPEAKER_02: Harder than I thought it would be. 372 00:19:57,460 --> 00:19:57,620 SPEAKER_01: Okay. 373 00:19:57,860 --> 00:20:00,259 SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's the short answer, right? 374 00:20:00,420 --> 00:20:06,980 Like, I I think uh, you know, maybe going into it, maybe I had 375 00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:11,380 a bit of an ego that I was like, I'm gonna conquer the world. 376 00:20:11,539 --> 00:20:14,900 Like, I'm so smart, you know, I have I've got all this 377 00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:16,019 knowledge, I'm so good. 378 00:20:16,259 --> 00:20:19,860 And what I've found like on the science of sales side, I've 379 00:20:19,860 --> 00:20:22,740 totally reworked the process. 380 00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:27,140 And I've started from scratch several times and like thrown 381 00:20:27,140 --> 00:20:30,500 out what I've done in the past, what I thought I believed was 382 00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:34,259 the best way, and and rebuilt like several times. 383 00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:38,580 The cool thing about bootstrapping and doing this a 384 00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:41,059 hundred percent myself and owning a hundred percent of 385 00:20:41,059 --> 00:20:43,220 science of sales is I can do that. 386 00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:47,140 And I don't have to answer to an investor saying, Hey, like I 387 00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:50,019 know what I sold you on a month ago, but like let me tell you, 388 00:20:50,259 --> 00:20:52,740 half of what I told you a month ago is just wrong. 389 00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:56,340 And I I'm pivoting into this other direction. 390 00:20:56,660 --> 00:21:03,460 And uh that's what I really like is is is just experimenting, uh, 391 00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:07,140 seeing what works, what doesn't, and then iterating from there. 392 00:21:07,299 --> 00:21:11,220 And so yeah, what's what's been surprising is how hard it is. 393 00:21:11,380 --> 00:21:16,259 Um and how how much how much harder it's it's been, how how 394 00:21:16,259 --> 00:21:17,940 fierce the competition is out there. 395 00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:23,220 I mean, it's so easy to for companies to spin up a business 396 00:21:23,220 --> 00:21:23,779 nowadays. 397 00:21:23,940 --> 00:21:27,059 I mean, creating websites, you can do a web, a pretty good 398 00:21:27,059 --> 00:21:28,420 website in like two minutes. 399 00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:33,220 Uh, you can lots of things, you can plug and play different SaaS 400 00:21:33,380 --> 00:21:34,580 uh vendors. 401 00:21:34,740 --> 00:21:38,660 Um, like I, you know, I do a lot of cold email and cold email 402 00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:39,700 five years ago. 403 00:21:39,860 --> 00:21:43,539 If you were great at setting up mailboxes and domains, like wow, 404 00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:44,660 you could do anything. 405 00:21:44,740 --> 00:21:46,820 And and if you could hit the inbox, great. 406 00:21:46,980 --> 00:21:51,299 Now there's 20 different vendors that can give you a billion 407 00:21:51,299 --> 00:21:56,740 Microsoft, Google, or third-party SMTP mailboxes uh in 408 00:21:56,740 --> 00:21:57,539 overnight. 409 00:21:57,700 --> 00:22:02,019 So it's you know, it's just changed the game of how you have 410 00:22:02,019 --> 00:22:02,980 to approach things. 411 00:22:03,220 --> 00:22:05,140 Um, so yeah, it's harder. 412 00:22:05,299 --> 00:22:10,259 And and with back haulers, I think I what I've what I've been 413 00:22:10,259 --> 00:22:15,940 surprised by is like doing my own bootstrapping thing while 414 00:22:15,940 --> 00:22:19,059 it's been really fun, it's really lonely a lot of the time. 415 00:22:19,220 --> 00:22:22,660 You know, I have nobody to share in those wins or or losses with 416 00:22:22,660 --> 00:22:22,820 me. 417 00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:26,420 It's just me against against the world, and that's fun, but it's 418 00:22:26,420 --> 00:22:27,620 also really lonely. 419 00:22:27,860 --> 00:22:31,779 Uh, the back hauler side has been way more fun than I thought 420 00:22:31,779 --> 00:22:32,180 it would be. 421 00:22:32,259 --> 00:22:35,059 I kind of went into it going, I've been doing logistics and 422 00:22:35,059 --> 00:22:35,860 brokerage a while. 423 00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:39,220 I kind of want to get out, but I find myself more and more being 424 00:22:39,220 --> 00:22:40,660 like, I really love logistics. 425 00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:44,259 There's something about this industry that's just so, so 426 00:22:44,259 --> 00:22:45,299 freaking fun. 427 00:22:45,779 --> 00:22:47,860 SPEAKER_00: How did you choose your co-founders? 428 00:22:48,259 --> 00:22:49,940 SPEAKER_02: So we all are friends. 429 00:22:50,019 --> 00:22:53,779 We've been friends and known each other um from Cowan days 430 00:22:53,779 --> 00:22:54,580 back in the day. 431 00:22:54,820 --> 00:23:00,740 Uh and you know, we uh luckily, luckily we all get along super 432 00:23:00,740 --> 00:23:02,980 well, know each other's strengths and weaknesses. 433 00:23:03,220 --> 00:23:05,779 We, you know, get into disagreements all the time on 434 00:23:05,779 --> 00:23:08,500 different directions or different, you know, ways we 435 00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:12,019 should go, but we all have a mutual respect for each other, 436 00:23:12,259 --> 00:23:14,180 and that's been really cool. 437 00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:16,340 And yeah, it's just been a lot of fun. 438 00:23:16,420 --> 00:23:20,100 And and and going backwards in time, like if I hadn't known how 439 00:23:20,100 --> 00:23:23,460 bad the freight market would be this year, I would have been 440 00:23:23,460 --> 00:23:25,700 like, you don't know what you're getting into. 441 00:23:25,860 --> 00:23:27,539 This is gonna be way harder than you think. 442 00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:32,019 I know you think you're gonna dominate, but but it's been so 443 00:23:32,580 --> 00:23:35,700 that's made our success this year with Bachaulers been so 444 00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:40,100 much sweeter because of how hard the freight market is. 445 00:23:40,180 --> 00:23:43,620 And we know like we're gonna we're gonna just knock it out of 446 00:23:43,620 --> 00:23:47,700 the park once the once the market rebounds in, you know, 447 00:23:47,860 --> 00:23:51,299 2030 or 2035, whenever, whenever that is, you know. 448 00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:54,420 SPEAKER_01: So when I think about co-founding teams, uh and 449 00:23:54,420 --> 00:23:57,700 you kind of hinted at this complementary skills and 450 00:23:57,700 --> 00:24:00,180 strengths, that's the fun part of it. 451 00:24:00,259 --> 00:24:02,580 Like, hey, I'm good at sales, you're good at ops, and you're 452 00:24:02,580 --> 00:24:03,140 good at finance. 453 00:24:03,220 --> 00:24:04,900 Cool, we've got this all figured out. 454 00:24:05,220 --> 00:24:09,860 Um then the other part you hinted at, though, is conflict 455 00:24:09,940 --> 00:24:12,100 because they're you're gonna disagree about strategy at 456 00:24:12,100 --> 00:24:14,900 times, or somebody's gonna feel like I'm doing more than the 457 00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:18,340 other person, I'm putting more time in, and my effort is worth 458 00:24:18,340 --> 00:24:18,660 more. 459 00:24:19,059 --> 00:24:24,740 And the the downside of having co-founders is your vision might 460 00:24:24,740 --> 00:24:27,700 not always align, or sometimes it can impact the relationship. 461 00:24:27,779 --> 00:24:30,580 You can start as friends, and after working together for 10 462 00:24:30,580 --> 00:24:32,340 years, you're like, you know what, we're not friends anymore. 463 00:24:32,420 --> 00:24:34,660 Now we're just business partners, and that's okay. 464 00:24:34,820 --> 00:24:37,140 Uh and in the worst of situations, they there's a 465 00:24:37,140 --> 00:24:38,019 falling out. 466 00:24:38,180 --> 00:24:42,900 Um, did you all talk about the risks of working with friends? 467 00:24:43,779 --> 00:24:47,940 SPEAKER_02: You know, I think we were too dumb and naive when we 468 00:24:47,940 --> 00:24:50,019 started not to really think about it. 469 00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:51,940 We were just like, yeah, let's go. 470 00:24:52,180 --> 00:24:53,140 Let's go. 471 00:24:54,259 --> 00:24:57,380 Um yeah, that's I mean, that's a great point. 472 00:24:57,460 --> 00:24:58,100 It changes. 473 00:24:58,180 --> 00:25:01,460 The relationship does change and it's it's different. 474 00:25:01,620 --> 00:25:06,660 I mean, it's helpful because we've I guess we've known each 475 00:25:06,660 --> 00:25:07,860 other in a work setting. 476 00:25:08,019 --> 00:25:11,779 So we know it's not like we're going into it just as friends, 477 00:25:11,940 --> 00:25:12,259 yeah. 478 00:25:12,580 --> 00:25:15,700 You know, in that sense, but but it also does change when you're 479 00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:16,740 co-founders together. 480 00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:19,059 You know, that dynamic is different because it's like, 481 00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:21,539 okay, this person's not my boss or my coworker. 482 00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:23,860 No, they're my they're in it with me. 483 00:25:24,019 --> 00:25:26,660 And there's always that, you know, in the back of your mind, 484 00:25:26,740 --> 00:25:28,820 it's like, am I working harder than other people? 485 00:25:28,980 --> 00:25:30,740 Am I working not as hard as other people? 486 00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:33,140 Am I adding more value or less value? 487 00:25:33,460 --> 00:25:34,900 And I don't know. 488 00:25:35,059 --> 00:25:39,860 I try to just constantly recheck my ego and also recheck like my 489 00:25:39,860 --> 00:25:44,740 own, like, it's it's all about the business and being a team 490 00:25:44,740 --> 00:25:45,140 player. 491 00:25:45,299 --> 00:25:50,259 And just it's not the and the cool thing is kind of when I 492 00:25:50,580 --> 00:25:54,100 feel like okay, ah, I would do things a little bit differently 493 00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:54,900 with backhaulers. 494 00:25:55,220 --> 00:25:56,259 I would go in this direction. 495 00:25:56,420 --> 00:25:59,539 I can kind of put that energy into science of sales and be 496 00:25:59,539 --> 00:26:03,860 like, yeah, well, science of sales is is all 100% my vision. 497 00:26:03,940 --> 00:26:08,180 It's sort of like my, you know, solo project versus my my uh 498 00:26:08,340 --> 00:26:10,019 albums with the band, you know. 499 00:26:10,340 --> 00:26:11,059 I like that. 500 00:26:11,299 --> 00:26:12,500 Yeah, yeah, totally. 501 00:26:12,660 --> 00:26:15,860 Uh, but the albums with the band are usually the best albums, you 502 00:26:15,860 --> 00:26:18,660 know, and it's like every because you see those other the 503 00:26:18,660 --> 00:26:21,460 strengths are more highlighted and the weaknesses are are kind 504 00:26:21,460 --> 00:26:22,500 of hid, right? 505 00:26:22,660 --> 00:26:25,380 And and that's what's been fun about batholors, I think. 506 00:26:25,779 --> 00:26:27,860 SPEAKER_01: What is your typical day like then? 507 00:26:29,140 --> 00:26:36,259 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so my day is I my my only rule really for my 508 00:26:36,259 --> 00:26:40,420 business has been I don't set an alarm anymore. 509 00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:43,940 And I just sort of start my day when I start it. 510 00:26:44,019 --> 00:26:48,740 So I don't start any, I don't have any morning meetings um uh 511 00:26:48,980 --> 00:26:52,420 and everything sort of starts for me, like starts for me in 512 00:26:52,420 --> 00:26:58,580 the afternoon, but I sort of get into the day and just go where I 513 00:26:58,580 --> 00:26:59,140 need to go. 514 00:26:59,220 --> 00:27:04,500 And I sort of prioritize things and then I don't know, the days 515 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:05,539 sort of blend together. 516 00:27:05,620 --> 00:27:09,860 I just I don't necessarily have you know that like nine to five 517 00:27:09,860 --> 00:27:13,700 Monday through Friday week anymore, but every day is fun, 518 00:27:13,860 --> 00:27:17,299 every day is different, and I just try to stay fo hyper 519 00:27:17,380 --> 00:27:21,860 focused on a specific task, and then I move to the next task and 520 00:27:21,860 --> 00:27:23,460 hyper focus on that test. 521 00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:28,420 So it, you know, some days it's like 99% backhaulers work, some 522 00:27:28,580 --> 00:27:34,100 days it's you know, it's more balanced, but it's uh it's I I 523 00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:38,660 don't have a great answer for that, other than every day's a 524 00:27:38,660 --> 00:27:40,580 blur and I'm I'm figuring it out. 525 00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:42,180 SPEAKER_01: I think that is a great answer. 526 00:27:42,420 --> 00:27:45,700 I mean, for this, again, the stage that you're in, it could 527 00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:48,180 look fundamentally different in six months. 528 00:27:48,420 --> 00:27:51,779 That's why I think the the period that you're in is so 529 00:27:51,779 --> 00:27:56,660 fascinating to me, because you you start with an idea and a ton 530 00:27:56,900 --> 00:28:00,420 of desire and then the world pushes back. 531 00:28:00,660 --> 00:28:01,860 And then it's like not so fast. 532 00:28:03,140 --> 00:28:06,100 Uh here's a problem, here's an obstacle, here's a competitor, 533 00:28:06,420 --> 00:28:11,460 and you have to keep overcoming that year after year after year 534 00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:15,860 to build something valuable and something that's meaningful. 535 00:28:16,180 --> 00:28:19,460 So when you think about uh and you're also kind of crafting a 536 00:28:19,460 --> 00:28:25,700 life, a lifestyle that is less nine to five and commute and 537 00:28:26,259 --> 00:28:29,220 prescribe what you do is prescribed for you, and you have 538 00:28:29,220 --> 00:28:30,900 a lot more autonomy and independence. 539 00:28:31,299 --> 00:28:34,180 That can come with a lack of discipline for some folks, but 540 00:28:34,180 --> 00:28:38,580 it sounds like you've managed to find a way to um time block and 541 00:28:38,580 --> 00:28:42,420 do other things to make that uh to still be productive in that 542 00:28:42,420 --> 00:28:42,820 setting. 543 00:28:43,059 --> 00:28:46,980 But when you start to think about uh more than just making a 544 00:28:46,980 --> 00:28:50,420 paycheck and um you know providing for your needs and 545 00:28:50,420 --> 00:28:55,860 such, is there any other bigger why behind some of what you do 546 00:28:55,940 --> 00:28:59,620 that as you quietly dream what is this gonna look like in five, 547 00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:01,860 ten, fifteen years that keeps you going? 548 00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:02,900 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 549 00:29:03,140 --> 00:29:07,779 I mean, for me, I you know, I was always dreaming about being 550 00:29:07,779 --> 00:29:11,220 an entrepreneur when I didn't know any better and when I was 551 00:29:11,220 --> 00:29:12,340 just in brokerage. 552 00:29:12,420 --> 00:29:18,660 I would listen to the Mixergy uh podcast, uh, you know, the the I 553 00:29:18,660 --> 00:29:19,940 forget what that one's even called. 554 00:29:20,019 --> 00:29:22,740 It's like the startup guide or something like that. 555 00:29:22,980 --> 00:29:23,299 SPEAKER_00: Okay. 556 00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:28,100 SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh I would always be like, oh man, I could 557 00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:30,019 totally do this, I could totally do this. 558 00:29:30,259 --> 00:29:32,420 But it's I I never had that confidence. 559 00:29:32,580 --> 00:29:37,620 I think for me, what it took for me to go like, okay, I need to 560 00:29:37,620 --> 00:29:41,539 just go out and do this and and stop thinking about it and stop 561 00:29:41,539 --> 00:29:45,140 dreaming about it and just do it was, you know, sort of around 562 00:29:45,140 --> 00:29:45,620 the times. 563 00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:49,779 I I talk about the freight music video parody stuff as like in a 564 00:29:49,779 --> 00:29:51,220 very positive light a lot. 565 00:29:51,299 --> 00:29:54,259 I think of like, yeah, it was this awesome creative outlet. 566 00:29:54,420 --> 00:29:58,660 But also for me, you know, I really struggled with the 567 00:29:58,660 --> 00:30:03,220 corporate politics and corporate structure of working at a 568 00:30:03,220 --> 00:30:03,700 company. 569 00:30:03,860 --> 00:30:08,740 And I found it just really like weighing on me and really it 570 00:30:08,740 --> 00:30:10,100 wasn't good for my soul. 571 00:30:10,259 --> 00:30:12,580 Like I knew that and I could feel that in my bones. 572 00:30:12,660 --> 00:30:16,820 And my body started to really like like was telling me some, 573 00:30:17,059 --> 00:30:18,340 hey, something's not right here. 574 00:30:18,420 --> 00:30:20,740 Like, you need to do something different. 575 00:30:20,980 --> 00:30:26,660 And so for me, I think as hard as this year has been, like, way 576 00:30:26,660 --> 00:30:29,460 harder than I thought it was gonna be, way more work than I 577 00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:30,660 thought it was gonna be. 578 00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:36,340 It's been so much fun and feels so much more fulfilling. 579 00:30:37,299 --> 00:30:41,620 And there's something about taking on problems or helping 580 00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:46,019 people and genuinely just figuring it out and building 581 00:30:46,019 --> 00:30:50,019 that airplane while it's you know in the air, that's just 582 00:30:50,340 --> 00:30:52,340 way, way too exciting not to do. 583 00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:57,940 And so I think I just I'm now kind of focused on building and 584 00:30:57,940 --> 00:31:01,779 creating and doing so that I can like sustain. 585 00:31:02,259 --> 00:31:06,180 This lifestyle of like just being an entrepreneur because I 586 00:31:06,180 --> 00:31:07,059 don't want to go. 587 00:31:07,220 --> 00:31:08,580 I don't want to go back. 588 00:31:09,779 --> 00:31:13,460 SPEAKER_01: We're a non-video podcast, so listener, you can't 589 00:31:13,460 --> 00:31:16,500 see this, but Ben's eyes and face have been lighting up for 590 00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:21,860 the last 90 seconds as he's described this new environment 591 00:31:21,860 --> 00:31:22,660 that he is in. 592 00:31:22,820 --> 00:31:31,059 That's awesome to have found a climate almost that is better 593 00:31:31,059 --> 00:31:32,340 suited to you. 594 00:31:34,019 --> 00:31:36,580 Nobody can outwork you in that climate. 595 00:31:37,059 --> 00:31:38,820 Because you're not you're not competing with anybody else. 596 00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:39,620 There are no rules. 597 00:31:39,700 --> 00:31:41,140 It's whatever you get to set. 598 00:31:41,299 --> 00:31:45,299 And when you find the kind of work that is challenging and 599 00:31:45,299 --> 00:31:48,740 stimulating, but that you've got competency in, and you get to do 600 00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:51,860 it in a way that's true to who you are as a human being and 601 00:31:51,860 --> 00:31:53,539 with your own values. 602 00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:57,620 You say you don't work a ton in the morning, but I bet you work 603 00:31:57,620 --> 00:32:01,700 pretty late into the evening and you sometimes don't even know 604 00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:04,100 what time it is because you're so in it. 605 00:32:04,420 --> 00:32:04,980 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah. 606 00:32:05,140 --> 00:32:08,820 I I so I don't set an alarm, but sometimes, you know, sometimes 607 00:32:08,820 --> 00:32:11,140 I'll wake up like I woke up the other day at 2 a.m. 608 00:32:11,299 --> 00:32:13,460 and I was like, oh, I've I've got an idea. 609 00:32:13,539 --> 00:32:14,340 I got to start working. 610 00:32:14,420 --> 00:32:14,500 Yeah. 611 00:32:14,740 --> 00:32:17,220 And it's like you just get up and you start going. 612 00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:22,820 And, you know, yeah, it's it's just this idea of I think maybe 613 00:32:23,140 --> 00:32:25,299 a lot of what used to weigh on me, I think, in the past in the 614 00:32:25,299 --> 00:32:28,500 in a corporate role was like this idea of like somebody is 615 00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:30,660 always watching you and looking over your shoulder. 616 00:32:30,740 --> 00:32:32,180 And it's like, are you on task? 617 00:32:32,259 --> 00:32:33,940 Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing? 618 00:32:34,180 --> 00:32:38,500 Are you at your computer when I want you to be at your computer? 619 00:32:38,660 --> 00:32:41,860 And it's, you know, when you have investors, you have 620 00:32:41,860 --> 00:32:46,500 clients, there is an element of that, but it is different. 621 00:32:46,820 --> 00:32:50,420 And I'm trying to structure science of sales and it's even 622 00:32:50,420 --> 00:32:55,460 my pricing models with clients in a way where I really take 623 00:32:55,460 --> 00:32:59,220 that pressure and put it all back on me and science of sales 624 00:32:59,220 --> 00:33:00,100 to perform. 625 00:33:00,420 --> 00:33:05,779 And I love betting on myself and taking chances with clients and 626 00:33:05,779 --> 00:33:09,940 doing free work or doing, hey, I'm gonna do pay per for 627 00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:13,779 performance because I'd rather that kind of pressure than the 628 00:33:13,779 --> 00:33:18,019 pressure of, hey, here's you're you're paying me this fee, and 629 00:33:18,100 --> 00:33:20,340 you know, I promise that I'm gonna perform for you. 630 00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:24,340 So it's been experimenting with a bit of of pricing models too, 631 00:33:24,420 --> 00:33:29,220 to figure out like how I can get that kind of kind of uh workflow 632 00:33:29,220 --> 00:33:29,860 and energy. 633 00:33:30,259 --> 00:33:32,740 SPEAKER_01: But congratulations on taking the leap. 634 00:33:32,980 --> 00:33:35,620 That is usually the hardest part. 635 00:33:35,779 --> 00:33:38,259 A whole bunch of hard comes after you've taken the leap and 636 00:33:38,259 --> 00:33:40,180 you're finding all that stuff out now, too. 637 00:33:40,340 --> 00:33:44,100 But the the conviction and courage to leave the relative or 638 00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:47,380 perceived safety of the corporate nest and go off and 639 00:33:47,380 --> 00:33:47,940 build something. 640 00:33:48,019 --> 00:33:54,100 I mean, that is the most kind of American dream slash um you know 641 00:33:54,259 --> 00:33:58,500 rugged individualism and self-reliance, pull yourself up 642 00:33:58,500 --> 00:34:03,299 by your own bootstraps kind of mentality that has driven 643 00:34:03,539 --> 00:34:06,500 progress here for centuries. 644 00:34:06,740 --> 00:34:10,900 I mean, it is that's why these to me, these stories are still 645 00:34:11,059 --> 00:34:13,139 your story, is still inspiring to me. 646 00:34:13,299 --> 00:34:16,579 It's not so much about logistics, although I love 647 00:34:16,820 --> 00:34:18,659 supply chain, I love the industry. 648 00:34:19,779 --> 00:34:25,619 The stories and the uh of people risking everything and betting 649 00:34:25,619 --> 00:34:29,699 on themselves, um, in some cases against all logic. 650 00:34:30,019 --> 00:34:34,179 Um, it doesn't make any sense on paper, and yet you still do it. 651 00:34:34,259 --> 00:34:37,860 I mean, how can you not root for somebody going through that? 652 00:34:37,940 --> 00:34:39,299 It is so cool to me. 653 00:34:39,780 --> 00:34:44,740 So, my question to you then is I I'm inspired by your story, I'm 654 00:34:44,740 --> 00:34:45,780 inspired by all these stories. 655 00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:46,980 Who inspires you? 656 00:34:47,380 --> 00:34:48,259 Last question. 657 00:34:49,219 --> 00:34:50,580 SPEAKER_02: That's a good one. 658 00:34:51,380 --> 00:34:55,380 You know, I think that's a great question. 659 00:34:55,620 --> 00:34:56,820 You stumped me. 660 00:34:56,980 --> 00:35:03,620 Um you know, I I'm inspired by people who genuinely do good in 661 00:35:03,620 --> 00:35:07,620 the world and help others, I think, and who are like very 662 00:35:07,620 --> 00:35:08,900 mission-driven. 663 00:35:09,139 --> 00:35:13,940 Um and when I talk to those kind of people, that really gets me 664 00:35:13,940 --> 00:35:17,940 excited because it's I think it's very easy to especially, 665 00:35:18,019 --> 00:35:22,980 you know, I do cold outreach for for different companies and and 666 00:35:23,139 --> 00:35:23,780 different people. 667 00:35:23,860 --> 00:35:26,900 And there's there's some companies that are are more fun 668 00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:29,300 to sell for uh that than others. 669 00:35:29,539 --> 00:35:34,579 And there's and and there's there's something about aligning 670 00:35:34,820 --> 00:35:39,220 with companies that you really believe in that is really, 671 00:35:39,380 --> 00:35:43,460 really fun, and leaders and people that you really believe 672 00:35:43,460 --> 00:35:43,700 in. 673 00:35:43,860 --> 00:35:46,820 Um, but yeah, what who who really inspires me? 674 00:35:46,980 --> 00:35:49,940 Yeah, people that that do good, I think people that are really 675 00:35:49,940 --> 00:35:50,420 honest. 676 00:35:50,659 --> 00:35:54,340 I think that was what struck me when we first had our first 677 00:35:54,340 --> 00:36:00,900 conversation, you know, in uh wherever it was at a conference 678 00:36:00,900 --> 00:36:05,300 a couple years ago, was like, wow, I can tell Nate's got this 679 00:36:05,300 --> 00:36:08,820 level of honesty that's really interesting. 680 00:36:08,980 --> 00:36:12,900 And I always like connecting with people that, yeah, you 681 00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:16,019 know, there's this level of transparency, and you kind of 682 00:36:16,019 --> 00:36:21,380 get beneath the BS that's that's uh that you can kind of have 683 00:36:21,380 --> 00:36:24,420 real conversations with, and that's that's really cool. 684 00:36:24,820 --> 00:36:25,860 SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much. 685 00:36:26,820 --> 00:36:27,700 I felt the same way. 686 00:36:27,780 --> 00:36:31,619 That that's that's part of why um we've stayed in touch all 687 00:36:31,619 --> 00:36:34,500 these years, is we had one small interaction, I think it was in 688 00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:36,820 Tennessee, in like 2021. 689 00:36:37,059 --> 00:36:40,019 And four years later, here we are, and I'm getting to share 690 00:36:40,019 --> 00:36:40,980 your story. 691 00:36:41,300 --> 00:36:43,380 Um because I feel the same way. 692 00:36:43,460 --> 00:36:47,460 I I too am inspired by people that um are trying to do 693 00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:48,980 something bigger than just make a buck. 694 00:36:49,059 --> 00:36:50,019 You have to make a buck. 695 00:36:50,179 --> 00:36:54,659 A business cannot sustain itself unless it operates at a high 696 00:36:54,659 --> 00:36:58,659 level of financial efficiency and adds value to its customers. 697 00:36:58,980 --> 00:37:02,500 But if that's all that it's about, then it's just soulless 698 00:37:02,740 --> 00:37:04,260 um chasing of money. 699 00:37:04,420 --> 00:37:06,019 And that is not appealing. 700 00:37:06,179 --> 00:37:08,820 Um, it's because when the money dries up, so will your 701 00:37:08,820 --> 00:37:09,300 motivation. 702 00:37:09,460 --> 00:37:11,539 And if you're gonna be in this for the long haul, you gotta 703 00:37:11,539 --> 00:37:14,099 love it whether you make money or not, because there are going 704 00:37:14,099 --> 00:37:15,539 to be periods where you don't. 705 00:37:15,860 --> 00:37:19,380 And to be able to do that in a way that's true to your values 706 00:37:19,380 --> 00:37:24,340 and and good for other people at the same time is a higher 707 00:37:24,340 --> 00:37:24,820 calling. 708 00:37:25,059 --> 00:37:29,139 And so I'm I'm glad to hear you unpack some of that. 709 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:35,300 Um it explains part of who I knew you already were, um, but 710 00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:36,740 more clearly. 711 00:37:37,940 --> 00:37:41,059 SPEAKER_02: There's so many interesting paradoxes of owning 712 00:37:41,059 --> 00:37:45,139 your own business and being an entrepreneur, like it's harder 713 00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:48,579 and both easier or more fun at the same time, you know? 714 00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:52,659 And it's more lonely, but also less lonely at the same time. 715 00:37:52,820 --> 00:37:55,780 And you know, all of these things that are both true and 716 00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:56,420 false. 717 00:37:56,740 --> 00:37:59,780 SPEAKER_01: And that is going to end up being somehow the title 718 00:37:59,780 --> 00:38:00,980 of this episode. 719 00:38:01,139 --> 00:38:05,139 Um because, like I said, it's it's irreverent and it's 720 00:38:05,139 --> 00:38:05,860 intelligent. 721 00:38:06,099 --> 00:38:10,980 You've got ultra modern on one hand and uh a throwback name of 722 00:38:10,980 --> 00:38:16,659 backhaulers on the other, and massive technology wave that 723 00:38:16,659 --> 00:38:19,539 we're in, and you're choosing to focus on one-on-one 724 00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:22,980 relationships and you're you're finding your way. 725 00:38:23,220 --> 00:38:26,740 There's no chance that we're not going to keep rooting for you. 726 00:38:26,980 --> 00:38:30,340 Um, I'm so thrilled for where you are at on your journey. 727 00:38:30,420 --> 00:38:34,260 I can't wait to find out a year from now if it if the vision is 728 00:38:34,260 --> 00:38:36,820 still the same or if it if there's been 14 pivots in 729 00:38:36,820 --> 00:38:37,539 between. 730 00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:40,019 Um, I hope you get some more sleep. 731 00:38:40,179 --> 00:38:44,659 Um I wish you tons of success, and thanks for sharing your 732 00:38:44,659 --> 00:38:45,059 story. 733 00:38:45,380 --> 00:38:46,420 Thanks, Dave. 734 00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:51,539 Thanks for listening to another episode of the Bootstrapper's 735 00:38:51,539 --> 00:38:52,579 Guide to Logistics. 736 00:38:52,740 --> 00:38:55,700 And a special thank you to our sponsors and the team behind the 737 00:38:55,700 --> 00:38:57,220 scenes who make it all possible. 738 00:38:57,460 --> 00:39:00,500 Be sure to like, follow, or subscribe to the podcast to get 739 00:39:00,500 --> 00:39:01,619 the latest updates. 740 00:39:01,860 --> 00:39:04,500 To learn more about the show and connect with the growing 741 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:08,019 community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounders.com. 742 00:39:08,260 --> 00:39:11,700 And of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to 743 00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:12,900 share their stories.