1 00:00:32,939 --> 00:00:35,420 SPEAKER_00: Hello, and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to 2 00:00:35,420 --> 00:00:37,980 Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it 3 00:00:37,980 --> 00:00:39,899 the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 4 00:00:40,060 --> 00:00:42,619 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and 5 00:00:42,619 --> 00:00:44,619 inspiring others to take the lead. 6 00:00:45,019 --> 00:00:47,179 SPEAKER_03: It's a roller coaster ride that you might 7 00:00:47,179 --> 00:00:48,219 ultimately fail. 8 00:00:48,539 --> 00:00:50,700 That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 9 00:00:51,179 --> 00:00:52,219 SPEAKER_02: It was very hard. 10 00:00:52,460 --> 00:00:54,620 SPEAKER_03: It truly is building a legacy. 11 00:00:55,179 --> 00:00:57,980 The more life you live, the more wisdom you have. 12 00:00:58,219 --> 00:01:00,700 Because we are where we're supposed to be, kind of 13 00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:01,899 answering the call. 14 00:01:02,219 --> 00:01:04,939 SPEAKER_00: Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 15 00:01:05,180 --> 00:01:06,780 I'm your host, Nate Shoots. 16 00:01:07,180 --> 00:01:09,979 Let's build something together from the ground up. 17 00:01:12,060 --> 00:01:13,020 Hello, everybody. 18 00:01:13,180 --> 00:01:14,379 Welcome back to the show. 19 00:01:14,539 --> 00:01:17,979 We are on episode 110. 20 00:01:18,219 --> 00:01:21,500 That's an absolutely crazy number for me to think about. 21 00:01:21,579 --> 00:01:26,700 That's 110 founders, 110 entrepreneurs with their own 22 00:01:26,700 --> 00:01:29,099 families, their own companies, their own stories. 23 00:01:29,420 --> 00:01:34,859 And um, what a ride I'm sharing here, you know, maybe for one of 24 00:01:34,859 --> 00:01:37,420 the first times publicly, that the Bootstrapper's guide to 25 00:01:37,420 --> 00:01:40,859 logistics isn't going to continue for another 20 years or 26 00:01:40,859 --> 00:01:41,579 anything like that. 27 00:01:41,739 --> 00:01:46,780 But we are in the home stretch, and we can unpack that more some 28 00:01:46,780 --> 00:01:47,420 other time. 29 00:01:47,739 --> 00:01:53,099 But um I'm especially delighted to have Brandon Joyce be number 30 00:01:53,099 --> 00:01:53,900 110. 31 00:01:54,060 --> 00:01:57,980 Brandon Joyce is the CTO and co-founder of Bitfreighter, a 32 00:01:57,980 --> 00:02:02,939 company that I personally have come to know and love for many 33 00:02:02,939 --> 00:02:05,340 years for a bunch of different reasons. 34 00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:08,939 And so when I say Brandon, it is good to see you, you know I mean 35 00:02:08,939 --> 00:02:09,099 it. 36 00:02:09,340 --> 00:02:11,579 Um It's good to see you, Nate. 37 00:02:11,819 --> 00:02:14,780 We got two, you can't see this, folks, but we got two guys that 38 00:02:14,780 --> 00:02:18,459 have bald heads, glasses, and beards that love to golf and 39 00:02:18,459 --> 00:02:21,579 love the logistics industry and entrepreneurship. 40 00:02:21,740 --> 00:02:25,180 And so we've got, I'm just looking at a mirror today. 41 00:02:25,420 --> 00:02:29,740 And extremely good-looking people going on here. 42 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:34,939 Uh well, we could go lots of different directions with our 43 00:02:34,939 --> 00:02:36,219 conversation today, Brandon. 44 00:02:36,379 --> 00:02:39,819 Why don't we start with a little bit of your background? 45 00:02:39,900 --> 00:02:42,379 You're the chief technology officer, which means you do a 46 00:02:42,379 --> 00:02:45,979 lot of the software development and coding and all the technical 47 00:02:45,979 --> 00:02:48,460 work that makes Bitfreighter work. 48 00:02:48,860 --> 00:02:51,340 So our listeners are very familiar with what Bitfreighter 49 00:02:51,419 --> 00:02:54,620 is, but can you tell us, give us an overview of how did you even 50 00:02:54,620 --> 00:02:57,819 get into uh being a technologist in the first place? 51 00:02:58,860 --> 00:03:02,699 SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, have you ever heard of the game Doom? 52 00:03:02,860 --> 00:03:03,340 SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm. 53 00:03:03,979 --> 00:03:08,699 SPEAKER_02: I, as a kid, I don't remember what age I was, that I 54 00:03:08,699 --> 00:03:14,699 experienced seeing that game for the first time and just wanted 55 00:03:14,699 --> 00:03:16,060 to play it so bad. 56 00:03:16,379 --> 00:03:21,180 And realizing that it was like my friend's dad that had a 57 00:03:21,180 --> 00:03:22,860 computer that could play it. 58 00:03:23,099 --> 00:03:26,860 And like there was no way to play that game unless you like 59 00:03:27,020 --> 00:03:28,139 had a computer. 60 00:03:28,620 --> 00:03:32,379 So I just set out like my whole goal in life was like, I'm gonna 61 00:03:32,379 --> 00:03:33,580 play that game somehow. 62 00:03:33,819 --> 00:03:36,939 I don't know what to like, we don't have a computer at home, I 63 00:03:36,939 --> 00:03:38,219 don't know what to do, right? 64 00:03:38,699 --> 00:03:42,379 So, really that sparked an interest in just computers in 65 00:03:42,379 --> 00:03:50,699 general, and uh I I remember actually finding a wagon and 66 00:03:50,699 --> 00:03:55,740 going door to door through my neighborhood and asking people 67 00:03:55,740 --> 00:03:58,539 for their extra aluminum cans. 68 00:03:58,780 --> 00:04:03,740 And I started a route through my neighborhood and the surrounding 69 00:04:03,740 --> 00:04:08,060 streets and would come pick up aluminum cans every Sunday for a 70 00:04:08,060 --> 00:04:11,500 summer and take them to the recycling center until I could 71 00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:12,699 buy a computer. 72 00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:18,220 And as soon as I bought the computer, I completely stopped 73 00:04:18,220 --> 00:04:21,819 doing that recycling route, and all my neighbors had all these 74 00:04:21,819 --> 00:04:23,899 aluminum cans stacked up. 75 00:04:24,220 --> 00:04:26,300 SPEAKER_03: They would ask me, like, hey, are you coming around 76 00:04:26,300 --> 00:04:26,460 again? 77 00:04:26,539 --> 00:04:27,340 We've got a ton of these. 78 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:30,620 Exactly. 79 00:04:30,699 --> 00:04:32,379 Yeah, I was like, no, I'm a kid. 80 00:04:33,340 --> 00:04:36,779 SPEAKER_00: Do you remember what you would get for a like a bag 81 00:04:36,779 --> 00:04:39,740 full or wagon load of aluminum cans? 82 00:04:40,060 --> 00:04:44,139 I feel like because I remember doing something similar when I 83 00:04:44,139 --> 00:04:47,819 was a kid, like taking a giant bag full down to the recycling 84 00:04:47,819 --> 00:04:51,579 place on my bike and thinking I'm gonna get like$50. 85 00:04:52,220 --> 00:04:54,699 And they handed me like six dollars and twenty cents. 86 00:04:54,779 --> 00:04:57,740 And I remember being like, this is right, yeah. 87 00:04:57,980 --> 00:04:59,019 SPEAKER_02: Not what I hoped for. 88 00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:00,139 It was a lot. 89 00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:04,300 I mean, it got to a point where I would have huge trash bags 90 00:05:04,300 --> 00:05:09,019 full, it filling up our garage, and my parents had to help cart 91 00:05:09,019 --> 00:05:09,980 them over there and everything. 92 00:05:10,060 --> 00:05:11,339 It became a big thing. 93 00:05:11,579 --> 00:05:14,779 So, you know, I was a way to be resourceful. 94 00:05:15,100 --> 00:05:16,220 Yeah, yeah. 95 00:05:16,540 --> 00:05:19,259 But then, you know, after that, of course, like having the 96 00:05:19,259 --> 00:05:23,180 computer and just wanting to learn how to, you know, even 97 00:05:23,180 --> 00:05:26,379 setting up games back then, making them work, there was 98 00:05:26,379 --> 00:05:30,779 always some complexity to to make that happen, and you start 99 00:05:30,779 --> 00:05:34,379 digging into it, you you start, you know, getting into the 90s, 100 00:05:34,459 --> 00:05:39,579 and there's online, and then you would figure out that like there 101 00:05:39,579 --> 00:05:45,740 was this career called programming, and I had um I had 102 00:05:45,740 --> 00:05:47,500 some good influences in my life. 103 00:05:47,660 --> 00:05:52,939 Um, like I had this uh grandfather who um seemed to 104 00:05:52,939 --> 00:05:57,259 just take a interest in me, like he saw something in me that 105 00:05:57,259 --> 00:06:01,579 maybe I didn't, you know, and he started giving me programming 106 00:06:01,579 --> 00:06:02,220 books. 107 00:06:02,540 --> 00:06:05,259 And it was a weird time in history, I feel like, too, 108 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:09,500 because like most careers you would choose have just been 109 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:10,379 around for ages. 110 00:06:10,540 --> 00:06:14,379 Like if you're gonna be a lawyer or something like that's well 111 00:06:14,459 --> 00:06:15,339 established. 112 00:06:15,660 --> 00:06:19,420 But programming was pretty new still, like very few people 113 00:06:19,420 --> 00:06:20,379 would do that. 114 00:06:20,540 --> 00:06:25,899 Um, but there were rumors of it, and I was like just I just 115 00:06:25,899 --> 00:06:29,579 thought the idea of sitting on a computer, you know, doing things 116 00:06:29,579 --> 00:06:33,339 I loved, solving problems really appealed to me, and to get paid 117 00:06:33,339 --> 00:06:35,420 for that would be awesome. 118 00:06:35,819 --> 00:06:41,180 And so I just slowly figured out that I could do it, and you 119 00:06:41,180 --> 00:06:45,019 know, by the time I got to high school, I was just really lucky 120 00:06:45,259 --> 00:06:48,939 my high school actually had programming classes in the 90s, 121 00:06:49,100 --> 00:06:52,220 which even today to have programming classes in your high 122 00:06:52,220 --> 00:06:55,180 school is like I think very rare. 123 00:06:55,740 --> 00:07:01,259 And so we were legitimately programming in Pascal and C and 124 00:07:01,259 --> 00:07:02,060 stuff like that. 125 00:07:02,300 --> 00:07:06,939 Um, and those were those were tools that really got me going. 126 00:07:07,259 --> 00:07:10,620 And I pretty much knew from like eighth grade on, I was like, uh 127 00:07:10,860 --> 00:07:12,300 this is what I want to do. 128 00:07:12,620 --> 00:07:15,819 So um, yeah, I just got into it that way. 129 00:07:15,899 --> 00:07:20,139 And I got my first job right out of basic training uh with my 130 00:07:20,139 --> 00:07:25,420 buddy's mom who had this startup and she paid me like nothing, it 131 00:07:25,420 --> 00:07:27,339 was like barely minimum wage. 132 00:07:27,579 --> 00:07:31,740 But the fact that I was like 18 or 19 years old and I had an 133 00:07:31,740 --> 00:07:33,899 office job, I thought I was so cool. 134 00:07:34,139 --> 00:07:36,300 Like so grown up, yeah. 135 00:07:36,379 --> 00:07:37,740 I was so grown up. 136 00:07:37,980 --> 00:07:41,339 Like, for example, when I would sleep there overnight with my 137 00:07:41,339 --> 00:07:43,899 shirt off and then wake up on the couch when people were 138 00:07:43,899 --> 00:07:44,459 walking in. 139 00:07:44,540 --> 00:07:46,860 SPEAKER_03: I'm sure that was like so grown up of me. 140 00:07:47,980 --> 00:07:51,259 It's like I was working all night and I fell asleep here. 141 00:07:51,579 --> 00:07:54,300 I ate all the hot pockets, we're gonna need more. 142 00:07:56,939 --> 00:08:00,459 SPEAKER_00: So you went right into basic training out of high 143 00:08:00,459 --> 00:08:01,100 school then. 144 00:08:01,579 --> 00:08:03,660 Uh first of all, thank you for your service. 145 00:08:03,899 --> 00:08:04,939 Second, thank you. 146 00:08:05,420 --> 00:08:09,180 What did the military teach you and how did you how do you apply 147 00:08:09,180 --> 00:08:12,379 that um to the field that you're in? 148 00:08:13,180 --> 00:08:19,500 SPEAKER_02: Um I think the main thing I got out of the military 149 00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:23,339 was a sense of accomplishment, maybe some confidence. 150 00:08:23,579 --> 00:08:26,699 I was pretty shy, I would say. 151 00:08:26,860 --> 00:08:30,220 I'm one of these people that's like naturally shy, but then 152 00:08:30,220 --> 00:08:34,379 when you put me in a situation, I I tend to like almost just be 153 00:08:34,379 --> 00:08:39,100 exuberantly outgoing to combat my my fear or something. 154 00:08:39,339 --> 00:08:42,779 And so uh I think the army taught me that a little bit. 155 00:08:43,019 --> 00:08:45,339 And I joined the army. 156 00:08:45,899 --> 00:08:50,299 It was in the National Guard, you get to like choose where 157 00:08:50,379 --> 00:08:51,740 you'll be stationed and stuff. 158 00:08:51,819 --> 00:08:54,620 So I joined with like five high school buddies. 159 00:08:54,860 --> 00:08:59,500 We all joined the artillery unit that was in our town, and so we 160 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:03,740 got to like go through that process together, and it was to 161 00:09:03,899 --> 00:09:06,779 it was the main motivation was to pay for college. 162 00:09:07,019 --> 00:09:10,620 So I think that was probably the one thing that you know we were 163 00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:15,820 all there for was that was worth the bag, and we would uh we all 164 00:09:15,820 --> 00:09:17,259 at least tried to go to college. 165 00:09:17,419 --> 00:09:23,500 SPEAKER_00: I actually dropped out later, but but you said you 166 00:09:23,500 --> 00:09:30,379 were an introvert um as well, and I'm just connecting a couple 167 00:09:30,379 --> 00:09:31,820 of of thoughts here. 168 00:09:33,419 --> 00:09:37,019 Plus computers, plus programming, you're a very 169 00:09:37,019 --> 00:09:41,019 logical thinker, is what's what stands out to me. 170 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:43,500 And I obviously know you um as well. 171 00:09:43,899 --> 00:09:48,299 What I like about software engineering is anytime that 172 00:09:48,299 --> 00:09:51,899 there's a flaw in your logic, it shows up in the product. 173 00:09:52,460 --> 00:09:52,940 SPEAKER_02: Yes. 174 00:09:53,179 --> 00:09:55,580 SPEAKER_00: Whereas when you're just talking, having a let's say 175 00:09:55,580 --> 00:10:00,059 you're having a debate with somebody about any random topic, 176 00:10:00,620 --> 00:10:05,019 we all have these blind spots in our thinking or these biases or 177 00:10:05,019 --> 00:10:08,539 contradictions in our own thinking that unless you're 178 00:10:08,539 --> 00:10:12,700 engaging with somebody who's skilled at pointing out those uh 179 00:10:12,700 --> 00:10:16,059 logic gaps, you can kind of steamroll somebody with 180 00:10:16,059 --> 00:10:19,419 personality or force or something like that. 181 00:10:19,659 --> 00:10:23,419 But when it comes to computer programming, if you get it 182 00:10:23,419 --> 00:10:27,259 wrong, everybody knows, and everybody knows exactly what you 183 00:10:27,259 --> 00:10:27,980 got wrong. 184 00:10:28,299 --> 00:10:34,139 And so you have to sometimes, or as a writer of software, you 185 00:10:34,139 --> 00:10:38,539 have to have a high degree of humility to be able to know that 186 00:10:38,539 --> 00:10:40,940 everything you create is going to be imperfect. 187 00:10:41,340 --> 00:10:41,820 SPEAKER_02: Yes. 188 00:10:42,139 --> 00:10:47,659 I think the best engineers have a lot of humility and um you 189 00:10:47,659 --> 00:10:51,179 know just the process of even getting code into production on 190 00:10:51,179 --> 00:10:55,340 most teams, you're gonna have the other engineers reviewing 191 00:10:55,340 --> 00:10:58,539 your code, for example, and critiquing it and telling you 192 00:10:58,539 --> 00:11:02,860 how to make it better, and and you have to be okay with that, 193 00:11:03,019 --> 00:11:05,899 and that that's just a natural part of the process. 194 00:11:06,059 --> 00:11:10,059 I think if you take you could easily take your code as like 195 00:11:10,059 --> 00:11:14,860 too personally as your you know your art form and you know, and 196 00:11:15,100 --> 00:11:21,179 the and take offense to things, but uh, you know, and and I have 197 00:11:21,340 --> 00:11:23,659 the people we work with at Bitfreighter, there's honestly 198 00:11:23,659 --> 00:11:25,179 varying degrees of that skill. 199 00:11:25,259 --> 00:11:28,539 You know, sometimes you gotta, you know, you gotta know how to 200 00:11:28,539 --> 00:11:29,500 give that feedback. 201 00:11:29,659 --> 00:11:34,379 You have to like, you know, hey, the you don't just say your code 202 00:11:34,379 --> 00:11:35,659 sucks, you know. 203 00:11:36,139 --> 00:11:39,740 Like, but like me, hey, did you consider this and stuff? 204 00:11:39,820 --> 00:11:43,980 You know, there's uh there's a lot in programming, I would say, 205 00:11:44,059 --> 00:11:49,580 especially nowadays, that's not just uh you know, a nerd in a 206 00:11:49,580 --> 00:11:51,659 dark corner that nobody talks to. 207 00:11:55,419 --> 00:11:58,539 SPEAKER_00: Well, on on that note then, I know that you have 208 00:11:58,539 --> 00:12:02,059 done your own consulting for years as well, and so you have 209 00:12:02,059 --> 00:12:05,980 your own business that you formed to be to do that, and I 210 00:12:05,980 --> 00:12:06,860 love the name of it. 211 00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:08,779 So nerdy LLC. 212 00:12:09,019 --> 00:12:09,580 That's right. 213 00:12:09,820 --> 00:12:12,620 That's just like right out front, like, hey, here's who I 214 00:12:12,620 --> 00:12:12,779 am. 215 00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:13,980 This is so nerdy. 216 00:12:14,139 --> 00:12:16,779 How did you how did you decide to actually file the paperwork 217 00:12:16,860 --> 00:12:18,539 and like this is what I want to be? 218 00:12:18,779 --> 00:12:19,740 SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know. 219 00:12:19,820 --> 00:12:22,220 I it was an available domain name. 220 00:12:22,539 --> 00:12:26,220 Um, there was just something about it that appealed to me. 221 00:12:26,539 --> 00:12:32,700 You know, I like to label myself a nerd, but in a like, I'm 222 00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:35,340 acting like I'm trying to be cool kind of way. 223 00:12:35,580 --> 00:12:37,659 Um, so like I can relate. 224 00:12:37,899 --> 00:12:40,059 Have you seen adventures in babysitting? 225 00:12:40,220 --> 00:12:43,820 Yes, where like the guy had that, I think his license plate 226 00:12:43,820 --> 00:12:45,899 was like too cool or something. 227 00:12:46,139 --> 00:12:50,460 I was just like, go the go with that attitude, but the reverse 228 00:12:50,460 --> 00:12:50,620 way. 229 00:12:50,779 --> 00:12:53,659 And so I got the so nerdy license plate and stuff, got 230 00:12:53,659 --> 00:12:55,179 lots of compliments on that, you know. 231 00:12:55,259 --> 00:12:58,860 It's just just embrace it and kind of like be a confident 232 00:12:58,860 --> 00:12:59,899 nerd, I guess. 233 00:13:00,220 --> 00:13:01,659 SPEAKER_00: And that is totally possible. 234 00:13:01,820 --> 00:13:06,059 I think the world is if if you go back 30 or 40 years, it was 235 00:13:06,059 --> 00:13:07,820 uh an insult, right? 236 00:13:07,980 --> 00:13:09,419 It's not an insult anymore. 237 00:13:09,580 --> 00:13:16,299 Now it is uh my favorite one was somebody told me this. 238 00:13:16,460 --> 00:13:19,100 They said when I was in high school, they used to call me 239 00:13:19,259 --> 00:13:19,659 nerd. 240 00:13:19,820 --> 00:13:21,340 You know what they call me now? 241 00:13:21,740 --> 00:13:22,379 Boss. 242 00:13:23,019 --> 00:13:23,659 Yeah. 243 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:25,820 unknown: Yeah. 244 00:13:26,379 --> 00:13:28,539 SPEAKER_00: So I I always loved that one. 245 00:13:28,779 --> 00:13:33,340 Uh so what do you actually do at Bitfreighter now then? 246 00:13:33,980 --> 00:13:35,259 SPEAKER_02: Still write some code. 247 00:13:35,419 --> 00:13:39,659 I I mean the first few years it was just like an extreme amount 248 00:13:39,659 --> 00:13:43,980 of working on the code and getting that working and 249 00:13:43,980 --> 00:13:45,740 starting to grow the team. 250 00:13:46,059 --> 00:13:52,139 Um I was, I feel like luckily lucky to have started a startup 251 00:13:52,379 --> 00:13:53,100 at my age. 252 00:13:53,179 --> 00:13:59,740 I'm 43 now, where I have a history of work where I can look 253 00:13:59,740 --> 00:14:03,340 back and I have like a really good network of awesome people. 254 00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:05,019 That's helped up helped me a lot. 255 00:14:05,179 --> 00:14:07,659 So hiring has been a big part of it. 256 00:14:08,059 --> 00:14:14,539 And there's it's an amazing feeling of gratitude and 257 00:14:14,539 --> 00:14:19,179 pressure, really, when you bring somebody from your past into 258 00:14:19,419 --> 00:14:23,980 this ride, you know, of this thing that's kind of yours, that 259 00:14:24,700 --> 00:14:27,340 uh it feels weird. 260 00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:30,299 I don't know how to explain it exactly, but it's it's obviously 261 00:14:30,299 --> 00:14:33,419 a lot of gratitude, and then you bring these amazing people in 262 00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:36,220 and they just make this thing so much better. 263 00:14:36,460 --> 00:14:40,940 Um so that's a big part of my day, I guess, is uh making you 264 00:14:40,940 --> 00:14:44,379 know, building the team, but working with those people. 265 00:14:44,620 --> 00:14:47,500 SPEAKER_00: Um what do you mean by the pressure part of it? 266 00:14:47,580 --> 00:14:51,740 Is that you're now responsible uh for them and their families, 267 00:14:51,899 --> 00:14:54,460 or is it you don't want to screw up the culture? 268 00:14:54,539 --> 00:14:56,539 Or like what is what do you mean by pressure? 269 00:14:56,860 --> 00:14:57,740 SPEAKER_02: Oh, keep going. 270 00:14:57,820 --> 00:14:59,100 Those are good examples. 271 00:14:59,340 --> 00:15:01,259 Yeah, it's it's that stuff. 272 00:15:01,419 --> 00:15:06,700 I mean, when there's all kinds of things that could go wrong, 273 00:15:06,860 --> 00:15:10,460 or there's or there's goals that we have where you want to reward 274 00:15:10,460 --> 00:15:12,539 people and you don't know if you can do it. 275 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:17,740 Like, you know, this year we've done really well, so we enhanced 276 00:15:17,740 --> 00:15:23,340 our healthcare package, and man, that felt good because you know, 277 00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:27,820 like startup offering a premium healthcare package is tough. 278 00:15:28,059 --> 00:15:32,700 So, like, there was like this feeling of like, you know, this 279 00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:36,379 is just like not good enough for them, you know, they're doing 280 00:15:36,379 --> 00:15:39,100 such amazing work, they deserve something better. 281 00:15:39,340 --> 00:15:43,659 Obviously, we can only do what we can do, but and you know you 282 00:15:43,659 --> 00:15:47,419 want to get there, and so I just feel that pressure while you're 283 00:15:47,419 --> 00:15:50,460 building the company to offer to offer them more, I guess. 284 00:15:50,620 --> 00:15:51,019 Yeah. 285 00:15:51,340 --> 00:15:54,779 SPEAKER_00: And plus, as a bootstrapped company, day one, 286 00:15:55,179 --> 00:15:55,500 right? 287 00:15:56,379 --> 00:16:00,779 You have to make a bunch of trade-offs of yes, we are going 288 00:16:00,779 --> 00:16:03,659 to control our own destiny, but that means we're also going to 289 00:16:03,659 --> 00:16:05,259 have limited resources. 290 00:16:05,580 --> 00:16:11,899 And the spirit of bootstrapping is at its core a long-term 291 00:16:11,899 --> 00:16:12,539 mindset. 292 00:16:12,779 --> 00:16:15,899 It has to be, because nobody would choose to make the 293 00:16:15,899 --> 00:16:18,940 sacrifices that bootstrappers have to make if they were only 294 00:16:18,940 --> 00:16:20,379 in it for three or four years. 295 00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:21,179 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 296 00:16:21,419 --> 00:16:27,259 I think what took me some time to understand that made me feel 297 00:16:27,259 --> 00:16:30,539 better, and actually just getting feedback directly from 298 00:16:30,539 --> 00:16:33,340 the team about this, because I'm pretty open and would share this 299 00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:39,659 feeling with the team, is that um, you know, they took the job 300 00:16:39,659 --> 00:16:44,139 for the pay and benefits and everything that came with it. 301 00:16:45,019 --> 00:16:50,779 And they probably had some other place they worked that maybe had 302 00:16:50,779 --> 00:16:51,340 it better. 303 00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:54,299 Like I was at those jobs with them where it's like, you know, 304 00:16:54,379 --> 00:16:57,340 we're at some established company where, you know, the the 305 00:16:57,340 --> 00:16:59,019 rewards are great or something. 306 00:16:59,179 --> 00:17:01,500 But they came here not just for that. 307 00:17:01,659 --> 00:17:04,619 They they made that decision because they knew working here 308 00:17:04,619 --> 00:17:08,860 would be fun, that we would work on hard problems, that they 309 00:17:08,860 --> 00:17:12,139 would feel like they're having a big impact, that it would get 310 00:17:12,139 --> 00:17:17,019 there eventually, that they trusted me, that the leadership 311 00:17:17,019 --> 00:17:22,139 here is good, and there's so much benefit that's built into 312 00:17:22,779 --> 00:17:26,619 working at Bitfritter and having fully remote, just our culture, 313 00:17:26,779 --> 00:17:29,900 everything, equals a lot of reward. 314 00:17:30,139 --> 00:17:35,340 And I didn't like value that as much as I probably should have 315 00:17:35,660 --> 00:17:37,740 because I was just thinking numbers so much. 316 00:17:39,339 --> 00:17:42,380 SPEAKER_00: And having spent enough time, I mean, I've spent 317 00:17:42,380 --> 00:17:44,299 a lot of time with Bitfreighter now. 318 00:17:44,619 --> 00:17:49,180 Yeah, we've shared I've shared meals with your team three 319 00:17:49,180 --> 00:17:52,380 times, three years in a row, we've done the Karen Cameron 320 00:17:52,619 --> 00:17:53,660 golf tournament. 321 00:17:53,900 --> 00:17:58,059 So I've spent as I think about this now, I've spent more time 322 00:17:58,059 --> 00:18:02,700 with Bitfreighter than any other company in the last three years. 323 00:18:03,339 --> 00:18:08,700 And and the people, and you do have something that is a little 324 00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:11,019 bit difficult to articulate, to be honest. 325 00:18:11,180 --> 00:18:19,180 It is a vibe that this is the word that just came to my mind 326 00:18:19,180 --> 00:18:20,059 was kindness. 327 00:18:21,180 --> 00:18:24,140 Everybody in the company is kind to one another, and you don't 328 00:18:24,140 --> 00:18:27,420 always, I mean, I'm sure it's not always that way, people are 329 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:33,420 gonna have conflict, but there is a genuine sense of uh people 330 00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:39,500 like each other and they want to be around each other, and um, 331 00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:45,740 everybody from Dave to Brad, um Hannah, like everybody is there 332 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:48,779 because they want to be there, they don't have to be. 333 00:18:49,259 --> 00:18:51,579 And you also don't take yourselves too seriously. 334 00:18:51,660 --> 00:18:53,819 There's an element uh you said fun. 335 00:18:55,019 --> 00:18:57,660 I don't think I've ever laughed as much as I've laughed around 336 00:18:57,660 --> 00:18:58,859 the Bitfreighter team. 337 00:18:59,099 --> 00:19:01,740 You guys have a wonderful sense of humor. 338 00:19:02,059 --> 00:19:03,579 SPEAKER_02: Oh, I appreciate that. 339 00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:06,700 I had a good ab workout from laughing. 340 00:19:06,779 --> 00:19:12,299 We just had our company on site in Orlando, and man, we yeah, we 341 00:19:12,299 --> 00:19:14,380 had a good time, it was amazing. 342 00:19:16,140 --> 00:19:18,140 SPEAKER_00: I I saw some of the pictures, so you have a you're 343 00:19:18,220 --> 00:19:21,740 you're a fully remote business, so your get togethers have to be 344 00:19:21,740 --> 00:19:25,180 somewhere, and you chose Universal Studios Orlando, like 345 00:19:25,339 --> 00:19:27,339 yep, novel choice. 346 00:19:27,660 --> 00:19:30,700 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, to be honest, we were looking at like 347 00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:37,819 a few options flying a remote company to a destination when 348 00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:39,740 everybody's pretty spread out. 349 00:19:40,059 --> 00:19:43,980 It turns out flying to Orlando is actually pretty cheap, so and 350 00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:48,940 there's a lot of venues there, so cost-wise, I don't think it 351 00:19:48,940 --> 00:19:51,500 was like it was actually a good choice. 352 00:19:51,660 --> 00:19:55,579 Um, and obviously it's Orlando, so we got to go to Universal, 353 00:19:55,660 --> 00:19:57,819 and but it was a great time. 354 00:19:57,980 --> 00:20:02,619 Brad gave a really good talk to like open it up first day, and 355 00:20:02,779 --> 00:20:04,700 you you've interviewed, you know, Brad. 356 00:20:04,779 --> 00:20:07,019 I mean, Brad's the heart and soul of the company. 357 00:20:07,339 --> 00:20:13,099 He, when I think about entrepreneurs, is really like he 358 00:20:13,099 --> 00:20:15,420 fits that label better than me, to be honest. 359 00:20:15,579 --> 00:20:20,299 Like he's interesting, more, he's more the visionary, he's 360 00:20:20,299 --> 00:20:25,099 kind of got that feeling of um there's always more to be had, 361 00:20:25,339 --> 00:20:31,579 like we can always do more, and I'm sort of more like the yeah, 362 00:20:31,740 --> 00:20:35,180 well, you know, there's holes to poke, like all the time. 363 00:20:35,339 --> 00:20:38,299 Like, I'm just like that's gonna be hard, that's gonna be risky, 364 00:20:38,539 --> 00:20:41,339 and so I I guess I'm a good devil on his shoulder. 365 00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:48,140 Uh we make a great team, but um and I I'm sure I exhibit some 366 00:20:48,940 --> 00:20:53,500 you know attributes that fit that that that what did you call 367 00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:56,220 it, entrepreneur, founder vision. 368 00:20:56,380 --> 00:21:00,619 Like I check some of those boxes, but Brad more than makes 369 00:21:00,619 --> 00:21:04,299 up for my misgivings of well, it sounds like I'll I'll use 370 00:21:04,299 --> 00:21:05,500 language that I'm familiar with. 371 00:21:05,579 --> 00:21:09,579 SPEAKER_00: The the visionary is uh uh fairly self-explanatory. 372 00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:15,180 But the other role that doesn't get as much PR um is the 373 00:21:15,180 --> 00:21:18,700 integrator, and that's part of the the EOS system for those who 374 00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:21,259 are familiar, the entrepreneurial operating system 375 00:21:21,579 --> 00:21:24,940 uh book series that's uh traction is the name of it, and 376 00:21:24,940 --> 00:21:29,180 the author's Geno Wickman, where the visionary is the one who 377 00:21:29,180 --> 00:21:32,140 casts the vision and and brings the resources together, but the 378 00:21:32,140 --> 00:21:35,420 integrator is the one who executes and keeps the trains 379 00:21:35,420 --> 00:21:38,539 running on time and sees that everything is connected to 380 00:21:38,539 --> 00:21:41,740 everything, and you have to make trade-offs and sequence work and 381 00:21:41,740 --> 00:21:45,019 define the processes and do all of the things that keep the 382 00:21:45,019 --> 00:21:46,140 engine running. 383 00:21:46,539 --> 00:21:53,099 And mathematically, uh integrators are more scarce than 384 00:21:53,099 --> 00:21:53,819 visionaries. 385 00:21:55,420 --> 00:22:01,339 There are it's something like one in um twenty in the general 386 00:22:01,339 --> 00:22:05,180 population in business could be considered uh uh a visionary, 387 00:22:05,339 --> 00:22:08,940 but it's something like one in fifty or one in fifty-five is an 388 00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:13,740 integrator, and so the two are essential for each other. 389 00:22:14,140 --> 00:22:19,099 The integrator needs the visionary to push them and set 390 00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:21,819 seemingly unrealistic targets. 391 00:22:21,980 --> 00:22:25,180 SPEAKER_02: Uh oh man, you yeah, this this sounds exactly like me 392 00:22:25,180 --> 00:22:25,900 and Brad. 393 00:22:26,619 --> 00:22:29,019 SPEAKER_00: And without the integrator, the vision goes 394 00:22:29,019 --> 00:22:33,420 unfulfilled, and so that is where I get a special joy. 395 00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:36,059 I'm I'm personally an integrator myself, that's why I gotta give 396 00:22:36,059 --> 00:22:37,259 integrators a shout out. 397 00:22:37,339 --> 00:22:42,940 Um somebody's gotta give them a shout out that um they keep the 398 00:22:42,940 --> 00:22:47,740 lights on, and when you find that right pairing of visionary 399 00:22:47,740 --> 00:22:51,099 and integrator that are complementary skill sets, but 400 00:22:51,099 --> 00:22:56,779 they're aligned around the same values, then like friction just 401 00:22:56,779 --> 00:22:57,579 disappears. 402 00:22:57,900 --> 00:23:02,059 And it's just you have your area, I have mine, and you get 403 00:23:02,059 --> 00:23:05,579 to see the best of what each has to offer. 404 00:23:06,220 --> 00:23:09,339 And like Michael Jordan wouldn't have been Michael Jordan without 405 00:23:09,339 --> 00:23:10,220 Scottie Pippen. 406 00:23:12,779 --> 00:23:16,460 I mean, I'm gonna get a lot of flack for saying that, but um, 407 00:23:17,180 --> 00:23:20,140 but he Michael Jordan would still be Michael Jordan, but we 408 00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:24,220 he wouldn't have been able to achieve the last couple of 409 00:23:24,220 --> 00:23:27,500 percent of greatness without Scottie Pippen. 410 00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:32,539 And um, that's why I when we were talking about I wanted to 411 00:23:32,539 --> 00:23:36,140 have you on the show, this is why um I should do like a 412 00:23:36,140 --> 00:23:39,420 co-founder series where we get to hear from both the visionary 413 00:23:39,420 --> 00:23:41,900 and the integrator because you bring different things to the 414 00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:46,220 table, and uh the visionaries are usually out front. 415 00:23:46,940 --> 00:23:49,740 And the integrators are usually comfortable not being the lead 416 00:23:49,740 --> 00:23:50,619 singer in the band. 417 00:23:50,859 --> 00:23:53,579 They're yes, they're happy being the rhythm guitar player or the 418 00:23:53,579 --> 00:23:57,259 rhythm section, and yeah, that's where you're at your best, it 419 00:23:57,259 --> 00:23:58,059 sounds like. 420 00:23:58,380 --> 00:24:01,099 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and I appreciate when you know Brad 421 00:24:01,099 --> 00:24:02,380 gives me credit, you know. 422 00:24:02,460 --> 00:24:06,859 I I definitely appreciate that a lot of the times he's out there, 423 00:24:07,019 --> 00:24:09,980 and and I'm yeah, he's the that's a great way to say it. 424 00:24:10,059 --> 00:24:13,099 He's the lead singer, and I'm an awesome guitarist or whatever, 425 00:24:13,180 --> 00:24:14,619 you know, and I'm okay with that. 426 00:24:14,779 --> 00:24:21,019 Um you know it's funny because I don't think Brad has a big ego. 427 00:24:21,180 --> 00:24:25,900 I think that's a good thing in in any in most all situations, 428 00:24:26,059 --> 00:24:30,460 really, but you know, he does it very reluctantly, and I think 429 00:24:30,460 --> 00:24:32,700 that that's he knows he has to. 430 00:24:32,940 --> 00:24:34,140 Like we've talked about it. 431 00:24:34,220 --> 00:24:37,500 I'm like, you know, you're you're the guy, you know, and 432 00:24:37,579 --> 00:24:39,420 you're a good guy to be the guy. 433 00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:41,980 Like you're a genuine person. 434 00:24:42,619 --> 00:24:47,500 And you know, if if you had seen the talk he gave to the company, 435 00:24:47,579 --> 00:24:50,220 it's very heartfelt, very touching. 436 00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:51,740 He's just a good dude. 437 00:24:51,980 --> 00:24:57,099 So anyone would be anybody that gets to know him knows he's he's 438 00:24:57,099 --> 00:24:59,019 a great guy to work for and work with. 439 00:24:59,180 --> 00:24:59,660 Yeah. 440 00:24:59,980 --> 00:25:04,380 SPEAKER_00: And I think his approach is more powerful 441 00:25:05,019 --> 00:25:05,980 because of that. 442 00:25:06,140 --> 00:25:11,180 I would rather have somebody um who doesn't want the spotlight 443 00:25:11,740 --> 00:25:14,539 have it because you know they're gonna they're gonna do it the 444 00:25:14,539 --> 00:25:18,220 right way, versus the person who's got a silver tongue and 445 00:25:18,220 --> 00:25:21,500 they're super charismatic and they know how to hit all the 446 00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:24,619 right notes, but there's no depth underneath it. 447 00:25:24,940 --> 00:25:28,460 And those are I I watch out for those people actually because 448 00:25:28,460 --> 00:25:31,420 they're they're not always who they say they are. 449 00:25:31,579 --> 00:25:34,940 Whereas someone like a Brad, he's like, Man, I could do so 450 00:25:34,940 --> 00:25:36,539 much better if I did this or did that. 451 00:25:36,779 --> 00:25:39,339 Like, no, you keep doing it exactly the way that you're 452 00:25:39,339 --> 00:25:43,259 doing it because it's it's 10x more impactful. 453 00:25:43,339 --> 00:25:47,099 Um because everybody in the room can tell you'd rather not do it. 454 00:25:47,339 --> 00:25:47,980 Yeah. 455 00:25:50,779 --> 00:25:52,619 That's what makes me love him. 456 00:25:52,940 --> 00:25:56,700 SPEAKER_02: Well, it's funny too, because when he had first 457 00:25:56,700 --> 00:26:00,940 approached me about this idea to build a business, I don't know 458 00:26:00,940 --> 00:26:02,220 if I trusted him yet. 459 00:26:02,380 --> 00:26:06,859 You know, I I had only worked with him, like I was doing my so 460 00:26:07,099 --> 00:26:11,660 nerdy consulting stuff for him, like I was writing some software 461 00:26:11,660 --> 00:26:15,900 for him uh on some things, and you know, I liked working with 462 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:18,220 him and stuff, but I didn't know him that well. 463 00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:26,059 And so when he proposed this idea, you know, I like to say 464 00:26:26,059 --> 00:26:27,740 ideas are just worthless, really. 465 00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:32,220 Like, like kind of to your point, like actually doing it is 466 00:26:32,380 --> 00:26:35,180 the biggest thing that matters. 467 00:26:35,660 --> 00:26:39,019 Probably all the biggest most successful companies started 468 00:26:39,019 --> 00:26:43,019 with a really dumb idea, like let's sell stuff online, and 469 00:26:43,019 --> 00:26:44,700 then you get Amazon out of that. 470 00:26:44,859 --> 00:26:48,059 There's no good idea there, it's just we're gonna do it better, 471 00:26:48,220 --> 00:26:49,339 is all it is. 472 00:26:49,819 --> 00:26:54,779 And so when I hear like, hey, we should start a business, it's 473 00:26:54,779 --> 00:26:56,859 like tons of skepticism. 474 00:26:57,180 --> 00:27:02,940 Sure, you know, and so you know, I basically I did see something 475 00:27:02,940 --> 00:27:36,740 different in him in that he had a business already, he seemed 476 00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:40,019 like a guy that would put in the effort and that kind of thing. 477 00:27:40,180 --> 00:27:44,980 And so I said, Well, sure, we'll do it, and if you can sell it, 478 00:27:45,059 --> 00:27:46,259 I'll keep doing it. 479 00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:51,700 And boy, did he like yeah, and and I was like, All right, I 480 00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:53,059 guess we'll just keep doing this. 481 00:27:53,220 --> 00:27:56,660 So, you know, and then I obviously built tons of trust in 482 00:27:56,660 --> 00:27:59,539 him over time, and uh, and here we are. 483 00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:02,180 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what what have you learned the most about 484 00:28:02,180 --> 00:28:05,220 yourself in these last three or four years that you didn't 485 00:28:05,220 --> 00:28:05,860 expect? 486 00:28:07,299 --> 00:28:07,940 SPEAKER_02: Hmm. 487 00:28:10,420 --> 00:28:13,140 Um what have I learned? 488 00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:20,259 I think I've learned I guess this is a skill, but it's still 489 00:28:20,259 --> 00:28:24,100 uncomfortable, but I'm learning it, is to let go more. 490 00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:25,700 And I've had to. 491 00:28:25,860 --> 00:28:27,140 It's a part of scaling. 492 00:28:27,299 --> 00:28:32,500 There's just things that I was a bottleneck on, like being the 493 00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:36,180 only person that understands X, Y, or Z about our system. 494 00:28:36,420 --> 00:28:37,779 I've had to let a lot of that go. 495 00:28:37,860 --> 00:28:41,940 I and I think I'm at a point where you know, there's very few 496 00:28:41,940 --> 00:28:46,500 times where there's something that's like we need Brandon for 497 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:46,820 that. 498 00:28:47,779 --> 00:28:50,259 And I can feel comfortable in that. 499 00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:54,019 Whereas when I was at a, you know, maybe another company as 500 00:28:54,019 --> 00:28:59,299 an employee, like the goal would be to be the guy that people go 501 00:28:59,299 --> 00:29:02,100 to in a way, to a degree at least. 502 00:29:02,420 --> 00:29:06,340 But now I am almost trying to always replace myself. 503 00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:10,180 I know that's a saying, and that rings true for me. 504 00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:14,580 It's like if there's something that's I'm needed for, that's a 505 00:29:14,580 --> 00:29:16,180 scaling problem now. 506 00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:20,340 And there's always something new, and I could list off new 507 00:29:20,340 --> 00:29:23,620 things I'm working on or whatever, but the plan is that 508 00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:26,580 those will be at some point, those will be a team. 509 00:29:26,820 --> 00:29:28,580 And that's a different way of thinking. 510 00:29:28,660 --> 00:29:30,340 I've never thought that way before. 511 00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:34,500 I've always been the guy that like wanted to build the own 512 00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:38,820 deck, build the deck on my house myself, or whatever, like cut my 513 00:29:38,820 --> 00:29:44,980 own grass and like not think of it as there needs to be like a 514 00:29:44,980 --> 00:29:47,860 longer-term plan here where I'm not doing that. 515 00:29:48,259 --> 00:29:50,180 And Brad has helped me with that. 516 00:29:50,340 --> 00:29:53,299 You know, he was much more comfortable with hiring people. 517 00:29:53,860 --> 00:29:58,100 Um, as a consultant, I never had to really do that unless by 518 00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:02,820 force and or in a really low-risk way where like I had a 519 00:30:02,820 --> 00:30:07,779 big project and I could get like a you know, I could consult out 520 00:30:07,940 --> 00:30:12,500 hourly somebody, and it was like very, very direct and easy. 521 00:30:12,580 --> 00:30:14,900 Like, you put in these hours, you'll get this pay. 522 00:30:15,059 --> 00:30:17,779 It's very different when you hire people and it's like a risk 523 00:30:17,779 --> 00:30:20,500 that you're gonna pay their salary no matter what they're 524 00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:20,980 working on. 525 00:30:21,140 --> 00:30:23,779 And there's this whole feeling that goes with that of like 526 00:30:23,940 --> 00:30:28,420 offloading what you do to these people, that I've gotten a lot 527 00:30:28,420 --> 00:30:29,539 more comfortable with that. 528 00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:33,380 And I obviously it works, that's how companies work, but uh, I've 529 00:30:33,380 --> 00:30:34,340 learned a lot about it. 530 00:30:34,740 --> 00:30:35,700 SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic. 531 00:30:35,940 --> 00:30:38,900 Last question, then this was the first time I've ever asked a 532 00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:39,940 question like this. 533 00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:47,059 But I'll I'll preface it with oftentimes I ask entrepreneurs 534 00:30:47,059 --> 00:30:49,460 what their advice is for other entrepreneurs that are 535 00:30:49,460 --> 00:30:52,980 considering it, like they've got an idea, and sometimes they just 536 00:30:52,980 --> 00:30:56,820 need the courage to go and try it, and that is the barrier. 537 00:30:56,980 --> 00:31:01,460 And so get a lot of advice on just go for it, um, you'll never 538 00:31:01,460 --> 00:31:01,779 regret. 539 00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:04,180 It you might fail, but you'll learn a ton. 540 00:31:04,740 --> 00:31:07,140 I'm gonna ask a different question this time. 541 00:31:07,460 --> 00:31:11,860 There are a lot of folks out there that are where you were, 542 00:31:12,340 --> 00:31:17,380 where you're not the visionary, but you have others in your 543 00:31:17,380 --> 00:31:22,900 circle that can be the CEO and you know and founder of a 544 00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:28,259 business and they're weighing the should I do do I trust this 545 00:31:28,259 --> 00:31:28,420 person? 546 00:31:28,580 --> 00:31:30,900 Do I trust that do I believe in their vision? 547 00:31:31,220 --> 00:31:34,660 So, what advice would you give to somebody who's considering 548 00:31:34,660 --> 00:31:41,380 being the co-founder to that person based on your experience? 549 00:31:43,940 --> 00:31:49,220 SPEAKER_02: That's tough because to be honest, you know, no 550 00:31:49,220 --> 00:31:52,740 matter what, you probably just have to try to find out. 551 00:31:53,140 --> 00:31:59,700 And so I think I'd get used to trying things as experiments and 552 00:31:59,860 --> 00:32:06,900 and putting some kind of limit on how I'm gonna value quitting 553 00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:14,660 because I think that if you can put some kind of uh goal in mind 554 00:32:14,820 --> 00:32:19,539 that if you can't do it, that it's okay, and maybe there's a 555 00:32:19,539 --> 00:32:20,180 better way. 556 00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:24,500 And so I do hear a lot of like entrepreneurs talk about never 557 00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:25,059 quitting. 558 00:32:25,460 --> 00:32:26,980 I think that can be dangerous. 559 00:32:27,220 --> 00:32:30,900 I think you should actually be ready to quit. 560 00:32:31,299 --> 00:32:36,580 Look at your situations with a bit of science, and like 561 00:32:37,140 --> 00:32:40,420 sometimes there's products that just don't have a fit, and you 562 00:32:40,420 --> 00:32:41,779 can go out and try a new thing. 563 00:32:41,860 --> 00:32:44,980 And if you're good at trying, you don't have to quit as your 564 00:32:44,980 --> 00:32:45,539 life. 565 00:32:45,779 --> 00:32:46,340 Yeah, yeah. 566 00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:49,220 You can quit an idea and find the right one. 567 00:32:49,299 --> 00:32:51,779 And I've had to do that uh uh quite a few times, actually. 568 00:32:51,940 --> 00:32:54,740 So uh this was just the one that stuck basically. 569 00:32:55,059 --> 00:32:57,940 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like under these conditions, it will work 570 00:32:57,940 --> 00:33:02,180 for me, and you've got some guardrails on either side 571 00:33:02,580 --> 00:33:04,980 because I and you use the word experiment. 572 00:33:05,539 --> 00:33:10,500 So often I am including myself, can look at a major decision as 573 00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:14,019 being permanent, and this is going to be the rest of your 574 00:33:14,019 --> 00:33:16,259 life, and it's kind of all or nothing thinking. 575 00:33:16,420 --> 00:33:19,700 Where when you think of it as a an experiment, that experiment 576 00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:22,420 might run for one year or four years. 577 00:33:22,740 --> 00:33:25,700 It may deliver what you thought it was going to, or you might 578 00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:30,980 get experience and value in other ways, but with few 579 00:33:30,980 --> 00:33:34,900 exceptions, those kinds of decisions are rarely, rarely 580 00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:35,460 permanent. 581 00:33:35,620 --> 00:33:37,460 And so that is good. 582 00:33:37,539 --> 00:33:40,100 Uh that's good contextual advice. 583 00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:44,019 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think experiments can be failures, but 584 00:33:44,019 --> 00:33:45,860 uh you aren't. 585 00:33:46,660 --> 00:33:47,220 Ooh. 586 00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:53,140 SPEAKER_00: That's a mic drop moment, if ever I've heard one. 587 00:33:54,420 --> 00:33:56,100 SPEAKER_02: I need a rapper name now. 588 00:33:56,340 --> 00:33:59,059 SPEAKER_00: Okay, no, I mean for real, like the experiment can 589 00:33:59,059 --> 00:34:00,660 fail, but it doesn't mean that you're a failure. 590 00:34:00,740 --> 00:34:03,460 That is, those are powerful words, especially for somebody 591 00:34:03,460 --> 00:34:05,700 that I know is generally more risk averse. 592 00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:09,460 So uh it sounds like you have had your own transformative 593 00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:09,779 experience. 594 00:34:09,860 --> 00:34:12,179 And of course, I've gotten to know you over the last couple of 595 00:34:12,179 --> 00:34:16,259 years and um have always appreciated the the connection 596 00:34:16,259 --> 00:34:23,059 that we have as uh a fellow nerd and operator and integrator. 597 00:34:23,299 --> 00:34:27,539 So thank you so much for unpacking your your journey with 598 00:34:27,539 --> 00:34:28,099 us today. 599 00:34:28,259 --> 00:34:31,460 I can't wait to see you next summer at the golf tournament. 600 00:34:31,940 --> 00:34:32,900 SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be amazing. 601 00:34:33,139 --> 00:34:36,179 SPEAKER_00: It will be four years in a row is is not a small 602 00:34:36,179 --> 00:34:37,059 accomplishment. 603 00:34:37,219 --> 00:34:39,620 And of course, Bitfreighter has been a sponsor to the 604 00:34:39,620 --> 00:34:41,219 Bootstrappers Guide to Logistics. 605 00:34:41,299 --> 00:34:43,780 Brad is one of the people that reached out to me years ago and 606 00:34:43,780 --> 00:34:45,940 he's like, I believe in what you're doing and I want to 607 00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:46,580 support you. 608 00:34:46,820 --> 00:34:52,340 And man, like the confidence boost that I got from that was 609 00:34:52,340 --> 00:34:53,780 totally unexpected. 610 00:34:54,019 --> 00:34:58,340 And then this whole community of people in the logistics industry 611 00:34:58,340 --> 00:35:02,019 that I've gotten to become friends with, and my annual trip 612 00:35:02,019 --> 00:35:07,059 to Nashville every August has Bitfrater has literally become a 613 00:35:07,059 --> 00:35:08,099 part of my life. 614 00:35:08,340 --> 00:35:10,340 And I did not expect that. 615 00:35:10,579 --> 00:35:14,340 And so it's not just a sponsorship, it is it's 616 00:35:14,340 --> 00:35:17,940 relationships and it is doing good business together. 617 00:35:18,179 --> 00:35:21,700 And I'm grateful to you and to the entire Bitfreader team for 618 00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:25,619 all the support I've personally received uh for the last several 619 00:35:25,619 --> 00:35:25,860 years. 620 00:35:25,940 --> 00:35:28,579 And I can't, even though the podcast isn't going to continue 621 00:35:28,579 --> 00:35:30,579 forever, I hope the relationships do. 622 00:35:30,980 --> 00:35:31,860 SPEAKER_02: That's amazing. 623 00:35:32,019 --> 00:35:33,300 All of that back at you. 624 00:35:33,460 --> 00:35:34,579 So thank you. 625 00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:36,019 SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Brandon. 626 00:35:36,260 --> 00:35:38,740 Um, we're all rooting for you. 627 00:35:39,059 --> 00:35:41,220 Oh man, appreciate it. 628 00:35:41,460 --> 00:35:41,860 Thank you. 629 00:35:42,019 --> 00:35:42,980 Take care, my friend. 630 00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:44,179 You too. 631 00:35:45,940 --> 00:35:49,059 Thanks for listening to another episode of the Bootstrapper's 632 00:35:49,059 --> 00:35:50,099 Guide to Logistics. 633 00:35:50,260 --> 00:35:53,220 And a special thank you to our sponsors and the team behind the 634 00:35:53,220 --> 00:35:54,740 scenes who make it all possible. 635 00:35:54,980 --> 00:35:58,019 Be sure to like, follow, or subscribe to the podcast to get 636 00:35:58,019 --> 00:35:59,139 the latest updates. 637 00:35:59,300 --> 00:36:02,019 To learn more about the show and connect with the growing 638 00:36:02,019 --> 00:36:05,539 community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounders.com. 639 00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:09,139 And of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to 640 00:36:09,139 --> 00:36:10,420 share their stories.