1 00:00:01,439 --> 00:00:03,919 SPEAKER_00: Hello, and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to 2 00:00:03,919 --> 00:00:06,480 Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,400 the way that doesn't get a lot of attention. 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,119 We're here to change that by sharing their stories and 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,119 inspiring others to take the lead. 6 00:00:13,519 --> 00:00:15,679 SPEAKER_03: It's a roller coaster ride that you might 7 00:00:15,679 --> 00:00:16,719 ultimately fail. 8 00:00:17,039 --> 00:00:19,199 That's when I kind of knew I was on to something. 9 00:00:19,679 --> 00:00:20,719 SPEAKER_02: It was very hard. 10 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,120 SPEAKER_03: It truly is building a legacy. 11 00:00:23,679 --> 00:00:26,480 The more life you live, the more wisdom you have. 12 00:00:26,719 --> 00:00:29,199 Because we are where we're supposed to be, kind of 13 00:00:29,199 --> 00:00:30,399 answering the call. 14 00:00:30,719 --> 00:00:33,439 SPEAKER_00: Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own. 15 00:00:33,679 --> 00:00:35,280 I'm your host, Nate Shoots. 16 00:00:35,679 --> 00:00:38,479 Let's build something together from the ground up. 17 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:41,520 Hello, everybody. 18 00:00:41,679 --> 00:00:42,880 Welcome back to the show. 19 00:00:43,039 --> 00:00:46,479 We are on episode 110. 20 00:00:46,719 --> 00:00:50,000 That's an absolutely crazy number for me to think about. 21 00:00:50,079 --> 00:00:55,200 That's 110 founders, 110 entrepreneurs with their own 22 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,600 families, their own companies, their own stories. 23 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:03,359 And um, what a ride I'm sharing here, you know, maybe for one of 24 00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:05,920 the first times publicly, that the Bootstrapper's guide to 25 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,359 logistics isn't going to continue for another 20 years or 26 00:01:09,359 --> 00:01:10,079 anything like that. 27 00:01:10,239 --> 00:01:15,280 But we are in the home stretch, and we can unpack that more some 28 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:15,920 other time. 29 00:01:16,239 --> 00:01:21,599 But um I'm especially delighted to have Brandon Joyce be number 30 00:01:21,599 --> 00:01:22,400 110. 31 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,480 Brandon Joyce is the CTO and co-founder of Bitfreighter, a 32 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:31,439 company that I personally have come to know and love for many 33 00:01:31,439 --> 00:01:33,840 years for a bunch of different reasons. 34 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,439 And so when I say Brandon, it is good to see you, you know I mean 35 00:01:37,439 --> 00:01:37,599 it. 36 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,079 Um It's good to see you, Nate. 37 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,280 We got two, you can't see this, folks, but we got two guys that 38 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,959 have bald heads, glasses, and beards that love to golf and 39 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,079 love the logistics industry and entrepreneurship. 40 00:01:50,239 --> 00:01:53,680 And so we've got, I'm just looking at a mirror today. 41 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:58,239 And extremely good-looking people going on here. 42 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,439 Uh well, we could go lots of different directions with our 43 00:02:03,439 --> 00:02:04,719 conversation today, Brandon. 44 00:02:04,879 --> 00:02:08,319 Why don't we start with a little bit of your background? 45 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,879 You're the chief technology officer, which means you do a 46 00:02:10,879 --> 00:02:14,479 lot of the software development and coding and all the technical 47 00:02:14,479 --> 00:02:16,960 work that makes Bitfreighter work. 48 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,840 So our listeners are very familiar with what Bitfreighter 49 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,120 is, but can you tell us, give us an overview of how did you even 50 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,319 get into uh being a technologist in the first place? 51 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,199 SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, have you ever heard of the game Doom? 52 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:31,840 SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm. 53 00:02:32,479 --> 00:02:37,199 SPEAKER_02: I, as a kid, I don't remember what age I was, that I 54 00:02:37,199 --> 00:02:43,199 experienced seeing that game for the first time and just wanted 55 00:02:43,199 --> 00:02:44,560 to play it so bad. 56 00:02:44,879 --> 00:02:49,680 And realizing that it was like my friend's dad that had a 57 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,360 computer that could play it. 58 00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:55,360 And like there was no way to play that game unless you like 59 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:56,639 had a computer. 60 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,879 So I just set out like my whole goal in life was like, I'm gonna 61 00:03:00,879 --> 00:03:02,080 play that game somehow. 62 00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:05,439 I don't know what to like, we don't have a computer at home, I 63 00:03:05,439 --> 00:03:06,719 don't know what to do, right? 64 00:03:07,199 --> 00:03:10,879 So, really that sparked an interest in just computers in 65 00:03:10,879 --> 00:03:19,199 general, and uh I I remember actually finding a wagon and 66 00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:24,240 going door to door through my neighborhood and asking people 67 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,039 for their extra aluminum cans. 68 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:32,240 And I started a route through my neighborhood and the surrounding 69 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,560 streets and would come pick up aluminum cans every Sunday for a 70 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,000 summer and take them to the recycling center until I could 71 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,199 buy a computer. 72 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,719 And as soon as I bought the computer, I completely stopped 73 00:03:46,719 --> 00:03:50,319 doing that recycling route, and all my neighbors had all these 74 00:03:50,319 --> 00:03:52,400 aluminum cans stacked up. 75 00:03:52,719 --> 00:03:54,800 SPEAKER_03: They would ask me, like, hey, are you coming around 76 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:54,960 again? 77 00:03:55,039 --> 00:03:55,840 We've got a ton of these. 78 00:03:58,800 --> 00:03:59,120 Exactly. 79 00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:00,879 Yeah, I was like, no, I'm a kid. 80 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,280 SPEAKER_00: Do you remember what you would get for a like a bag 81 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,240 full or wagon load of aluminum cans? 82 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,639 I feel like because I remember doing something similar when I 83 00:04:12,639 --> 00:04:16,319 was a kid, like taking a giant bag full down to the recycling 84 00:04:16,319 --> 00:04:20,079 place on my bike and thinking I'm gonna get like$50. 85 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,199 And they handed me like six dollars and twenty cents. 86 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,240 And I remember being like, this is right, yeah. 87 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:27,519 SPEAKER_02: Not what I hoped for. 88 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:28,639 It was a lot. 89 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,800 I mean, it got to a point where I would have huge trash bags 90 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:37,519 full, it filling up our garage, and my parents had to help cart 91 00:04:37,519 --> 00:04:38,480 them over there and everything. 92 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:39,839 It became a big thing. 93 00:04:40,079 --> 00:04:43,279 So, you know, I was a way to be resourceful. 94 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:44,720 Yeah, yeah. 95 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,759 But then, you know, after that, of course, like having the 96 00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:51,680 computer and just wanting to learn how to, you know, even 97 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,879 setting up games back then, making them work, there was 98 00:04:54,879 --> 00:04:59,279 always some complexity to to make that happen, and you start 99 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,879 digging into it, you you start, you know, getting into the 90s, 100 00:05:02,959 --> 00:05:08,079 and there's online, and then you would figure out that like there 101 00:05:08,079 --> 00:05:14,240 was this career called programming, and I had um I had 102 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,000 some good influences in my life. 103 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:21,439 Um, like I had this uh grandfather who um seemed to 104 00:05:21,439 --> 00:05:25,759 just take a interest in me, like he saw something in me that 105 00:05:25,759 --> 00:05:30,079 maybe I didn't, you know, and he started giving me programming 106 00:05:30,079 --> 00:05:30,720 books. 107 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,759 And it was a weird time in history, I feel like, too, 108 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,000 because like most careers you would choose have just been 109 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:38,879 around for ages. 110 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,879 Like if you're gonna be a lawyer or something like that's well 111 00:05:42,959 --> 00:05:43,839 established. 112 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,920 But programming was pretty new still, like very few people 113 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:48,879 would do that. 114 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:54,399 Um, but there were rumors of it, and I was like just I just 115 00:05:54,399 --> 00:05:58,079 thought the idea of sitting on a computer, you know, doing things 116 00:05:58,079 --> 00:06:01,839 I loved, solving problems really appealed to me, and to get paid 117 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,920 for that would be awesome. 118 00:06:04,319 --> 00:06:09,680 And so I just slowly figured out that I could do it, and you 119 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,519 know, by the time I got to high school, I was just really lucky 120 00:06:13,759 --> 00:06:17,439 my high school actually had programming classes in the 90s, 121 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,720 which even today to have programming classes in your high 122 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,680 school is like I think very rare. 123 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:29,759 And so we were legitimately programming in Pascal and C and 124 00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:30,560 stuff like that. 125 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,439 Um, and those were those were tools that really got me going. 126 00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:39,120 And I pretty much knew from like eighth grade on, I was like, uh 127 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:40,800 this is what I want to do. 128 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,319 So um, yeah, I just got into it that way. 129 00:06:44,399 --> 00:06:48,639 And I got my first job right out of basic training uh with my 130 00:06:48,639 --> 00:06:53,920 buddy's mom who had this startup and she paid me like nothing, it 131 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:55,839 was like barely minimum wage. 132 00:06:56,079 --> 00:07:00,240 But the fact that I was like 18 or 19 years old and I had an 133 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,399 office job, I thought I was so cool. 134 00:07:02,639 --> 00:07:04,800 Like so grown up, yeah. 135 00:07:04,879 --> 00:07:06,240 I was so grown up. 136 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,839 Like, for example, when I would sleep there overnight with my 137 00:07:09,839 --> 00:07:12,399 shirt off and then wake up on the couch when people were 138 00:07:12,399 --> 00:07:12,959 walking in. 139 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,360 SPEAKER_03: I'm sure that was like so grown up of me. 140 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,759 It's like I was working all night and I fell asleep here. 141 00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:22,800 I ate all the hot pockets, we're gonna need more. 142 00:07:25,439 --> 00:07:28,959 SPEAKER_00: So you went right into basic training out of high 143 00:07:28,959 --> 00:07:29,600 school then. 144 00:07:30,079 --> 00:07:32,160 Uh first of all, thank you for your service. 145 00:07:32,399 --> 00:07:33,439 Second, thank you. 146 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,680 What did the military teach you and how did you how do you apply 147 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,879 that um to the field that you're in? 148 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:48,000 SPEAKER_02: Um I think the main thing I got out of the military 149 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,839 was a sense of accomplishment, maybe some confidence. 150 00:07:52,079 --> 00:07:55,199 I was pretty shy, I would say. 151 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,720 I'm one of these people that's like naturally shy, but then 152 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,879 when you put me in a situation, I I tend to like almost just be 153 00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:07,600 exuberantly outgoing to combat my my fear or something. 154 00:08:07,839 --> 00:08:11,279 And so uh I think the army taught me that a little bit. 155 00:08:11,519 --> 00:08:13,839 And I joined the army. 156 00:08:14,399 --> 00:08:18,800 It was in the National Guard, you get to like choose where 157 00:08:18,879 --> 00:08:20,240 you'll be stationed and stuff. 158 00:08:20,319 --> 00:08:23,120 So I joined with like five high school buddies. 159 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:28,000 We all joined the artillery unit that was in our town, and so we 160 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,240 got to like go through that process together, and it was to 161 00:08:32,399 --> 00:08:35,279 it was the main motivation was to pay for college. 162 00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:39,120 So I think that was probably the one thing that you know we were 163 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:44,320 all there for was that was worth the bag, and we would uh we all 164 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:45,759 at least tried to go to college. 165 00:08:45,919 --> 00:08:52,000 SPEAKER_00: I actually dropped out later, but but you said you 166 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:58,879 were an introvert um as well, and I'm just connecting a couple 167 00:08:58,879 --> 00:09:00,320 of of thoughts here. 168 00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:05,519 Plus computers, plus programming, you're a very 169 00:09:05,519 --> 00:09:09,519 logical thinker, is what's what stands out to me. 170 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,000 And I obviously know you um as well. 171 00:09:12,399 --> 00:09:16,799 What I like about software engineering is anytime that 172 00:09:16,799 --> 00:09:20,399 there's a flaw in your logic, it shows up in the product. 173 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:21,440 SPEAKER_02: Yes. 174 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,080 SPEAKER_00: Whereas when you're just talking, having a let's say 175 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,559 you're having a debate with somebody about any random topic, 176 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,519 we all have these blind spots in our thinking or these biases or 177 00:09:33,519 --> 00:09:37,039 contradictions in our own thinking that unless you're 178 00:09:37,039 --> 00:09:41,200 engaging with somebody who's skilled at pointing out those uh 179 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,559 logic gaps, you can kind of steamroll somebody with 180 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,919 personality or force or something like that. 181 00:09:48,159 --> 00:09:51,919 But when it comes to computer programming, if you get it 182 00:09:51,919 --> 00:09:55,759 wrong, everybody knows, and everybody knows exactly what you 183 00:09:55,759 --> 00:09:56,480 got wrong. 184 00:09:56,799 --> 00:10:02,639 And so you have to sometimes, or as a writer of software, you 185 00:10:02,639 --> 00:10:07,039 have to have a high degree of humility to be able to know that 186 00:10:07,039 --> 00:10:09,440 everything you create is going to be imperfect. 187 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:10,320 SPEAKER_02: Yes. 188 00:10:10,639 --> 00:10:16,159 I think the best engineers have a lot of humility and um you 189 00:10:16,159 --> 00:10:19,679 know just the process of even getting code into production on 190 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,840 most teams, you're gonna have the other engineers reviewing 191 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,039 your code, for example, and critiquing it and telling you 192 00:10:27,039 --> 00:10:31,360 how to make it better, and and you have to be okay with that, 193 00:10:31,519 --> 00:10:34,399 and that that's just a natural part of the process. 194 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,559 I think if you take you could easily take your code as like 195 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:43,360 too personally as your you know your art form and you know, and 196 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:49,679 the and take offense to things, but uh, you know, and and I have 197 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,159 the people we work with at Bitfreighter, there's honestly 198 00:10:52,159 --> 00:10:53,679 varying degrees of that skill. 199 00:10:53,759 --> 00:10:57,039 You know, sometimes you gotta, you know, you gotta know how to 200 00:10:57,039 --> 00:10:58,000 give that feedback. 201 00:10:58,159 --> 00:11:02,879 You have to like, you know, hey, the you don't just say your code 202 00:11:02,879 --> 00:11:04,159 sucks, you know. 203 00:11:04,639 --> 00:11:08,240 Like, but like me, hey, did you consider this and stuff? 204 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,480 You know, there's uh there's a lot in programming, I would say, 205 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:18,080 especially nowadays, that's not just uh you know, a nerd in a 206 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,159 dark corner that nobody talks to. 207 00:11:23,919 --> 00:11:27,039 SPEAKER_00: Well, on on that note then, I know that you have 208 00:11:27,039 --> 00:11:30,559 done your own consulting for years as well, and so you have 209 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,480 your own business that you formed to be to do that, and I 210 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:35,360 love the name of it. 211 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,279 So nerdy LLC. 212 00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:38,080 That's right. 213 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,120 That's just like right out front, like, hey, here's who I 214 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:41,279 am. 215 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:42,480 This is so nerdy. 216 00:11:42,639 --> 00:11:45,279 How did you how did you decide to actually file the paperwork 217 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,039 and like this is what I want to be? 218 00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:48,240 SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know. 219 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,720 I it was an available domain name. 220 00:11:51,039 --> 00:11:54,720 Um, there was just something about it that appealed to me. 221 00:11:55,039 --> 00:12:01,200 You know, I like to label myself a nerd, but in a like, I'm 222 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,840 acting like I'm trying to be cool kind of way. 223 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,159 Um, so like I can relate. 224 00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:08,559 Have you seen adventures in babysitting? 225 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,320 Yes, where like the guy had that, I think his license plate 226 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,399 was like too cool or something. 227 00:12:14,639 --> 00:12:18,960 I was just like, go the go with that attitude, but the reverse 228 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:19,120 way. 229 00:12:19,279 --> 00:12:22,159 And so I got the so nerdy license plate and stuff, got 230 00:12:22,159 --> 00:12:23,679 lots of compliments on that, you know. 231 00:12:23,759 --> 00:12:27,360 It's just just embrace it and kind of like be a confident 232 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:28,399 nerd, I guess. 233 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,159 SPEAKER_00: And that is totally possible. 234 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,559 I think the world is if if you go back 30 or 40 years, it was 235 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,320 uh an insult, right? 236 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:37,919 It's not an insult anymore. 237 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:44,799 Now it is uh my favorite one was somebody told me this. 238 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,600 They said when I was in high school, they used to call me 239 00:12:47,759 --> 00:12:48,159 nerd. 240 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:49,840 You know what they call me now? 241 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:50,879 Boss. 242 00:12:51,519 --> 00:12:52,159 Yeah. 243 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:54,320 unknown: Yeah. 244 00:12:54,879 --> 00:12:57,039 SPEAKER_00: So I I always loved that one. 245 00:12:57,279 --> 00:13:01,840 Uh so what do you actually do at Bitfreighter now then? 246 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:03,759 SPEAKER_02: Still write some code. 247 00:13:03,919 --> 00:13:08,159 I I mean the first few years it was just like an extreme amount 248 00:13:08,159 --> 00:13:12,480 of working on the code and getting that working and 249 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,240 starting to grow the team. 250 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:20,639 Um I was, I feel like luckily lucky to have started a startup 251 00:13:20,879 --> 00:13:21,600 at my age. 252 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:28,240 I'm 43 now, where I have a history of work where I can look 253 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,840 back and I have like a really good network of awesome people. 254 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,519 That's helped up helped me a lot. 255 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,159 So hiring has been a big part of it. 256 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:43,039 And there's it's an amazing feeling of gratitude and 257 00:13:43,039 --> 00:13:47,679 pressure, really, when you bring somebody from your past into 258 00:13:47,919 --> 00:13:52,480 this ride, you know, of this thing that's kind of yours, that 259 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,840 uh it feels weird. 260 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,799 I don't know how to explain it exactly, but it's it's obviously 261 00:13:58,799 --> 00:14:01,919 a lot of gratitude, and then you bring these amazing people in 262 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,720 and they just make this thing so much better. 263 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,440 Um so that's a big part of my day, I guess, is uh making you 264 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,879 know, building the team, but working with those people. 265 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,000 SPEAKER_00: Um what do you mean by the pressure part of it? 266 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,240 Is that you're now responsible uh for them and their families, 267 00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:22,960 or is it you don't want to screw up the culture? 268 00:14:23,039 --> 00:14:25,039 Or like what is what do you mean by pressure? 269 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:26,240 SPEAKER_02: Oh, keep going. 270 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:27,600 Those are good examples. 271 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,759 Yeah, it's it's that stuff. 272 00:14:29,919 --> 00:14:35,200 I mean, when there's all kinds of things that could go wrong, 273 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,960 or there's or there's goals that we have where you want to reward 274 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,039 people and you don't know if you can do it. 275 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:46,240 Like, you know, this year we've done really well, so we enhanced 276 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:51,840 our healthcare package, and man, that felt good because you know, 277 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,320 like startup offering a premium healthcare package is tough. 278 00:14:56,559 --> 00:15:01,200 So, like, there was like this feeling of like, you know, this 279 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,879 is just like not good enough for them, you know, they're doing 280 00:15:04,879 --> 00:15:07,600 such amazing work, they deserve something better. 281 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,159 Obviously, we can only do what we can do, but and you know you 282 00:15:12,159 --> 00:15:15,919 want to get there, and so I just feel that pressure while you're 283 00:15:15,919 --> 00:15:18,960 building the company to offer to offer them more, I guess. 284 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:19,519 Yeah. 285 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,279 SPEAKER_00: And plus, as a bootstrapped company, day one, 286 00:15:23,679 --> 00:15:24,000 right? 287 00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:29,279 You have to make a bunch of trade-offs of yes, we are going 288 00:15:29,279 --> 00:15:32,159 to control our own destiny, but that means we're also going to 289 00:15:32,159 --> 00:15:33,759 have limited resources. 290 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:40,399 And the spirit of bootstrapping is at its core a long-term 291 00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:41,039 mindset. 292 00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:44,399 It has to be, because nobody would choose to make the 293 00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:47,440 sacrifices that bootstrappers have to make if they were only 294 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:48,879 in it for three or four years. 295 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:49,679 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. 296 00:15:49,919 --> 00:15:55,759 I think what took me some time to understand that made me feel 297 00:15:55,759 --> 00:15:59,039 better, and actually just getting feedback directly from 298 00:15:59,039 --> 00:16:01,840 the team about this, because I'm pretty open and would share this 299 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:08,159 feeling with the team, is that um, you know, they took the job 300 00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:12,639 for the pay and benefits and everything that came with it. 301 00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:19,279 And they probably had some other place they worked that maybe had 302 00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:19,840 it better. 303 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,799 Like I was at those jobs with them where it's like, you know, 304 00:16:22,879 --> 00:16:25,840 we're at some established company where, you know, the the 305 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:27,519 rewards are great or something. 306 00:16:27,679 --> 00:16:30,000 But they came here not just for that. 307 00:16:30,159 --> 00:16:33,120 They they made that decision because they knew working here 308 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,360 would be fun, that we would work on hard problems, that they 309 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,639 would feel like they're having a big impact, that it would get 310 00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:45,519 there eventually, that they trusted me, that the leadership 311 00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:50,639 here is good, and there's so much benefit that's built into 312 00:16:51,279 --> 00:16:55,120 working at Bitfritter and having fully remote, just our culture, 313 00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:58,399 everything, equals a lot of reward. 314 00:16:58,639 --> 00:17:03,840 And I didn't like value that as much as I probably should have 315 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,240 because I was just thinking numbers so much. 316 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:10,880 SPEAKER_00: And having spent enough time, I mean, I've spent 317 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,799 a lot of time with Bitfreighter now. 318 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:17,680 Yeah, we've shared I've shared meals with your team three 319 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,880 times, three years in a row, we've done the Karen Cameron 320 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,160 golf tournament. 321 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,559 So I've spent as I think about this now, I've spent more time 322 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:31,200 with Bitfreighter than any other company in the last three years. 323 00:17:31,839 --> 00:17:37,200 And and the people, and you do have something that is a little 324 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,519 bit difficult to articulate, to be honest. 325 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:47,680 It is a vibe that this is the word that just came to my mind 326 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:48,559 was kindness. 327 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,640 Everybody in the company is kind to one another, and you don't 328 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,920 always, I mean, I'm sure it's not always that way, people are 329 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:01,920 gonna have conflict, but there is a genuine sense of uh people 330 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:08,000 like each other and they want to be around each other, and um, 331 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:14,240 everybody from Dave to Brad, um Hannah, like everybody is there 332 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,279 because they want to be there, they don't have to be. 333 00:18:17,759 --> 00:18:20,079 And you also don't take yourselves too seriously. 334 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,319 There's an element uh you said fun. 335 00:18:23,519 --> 00:18:26,160 I don't think I've ever laughed as much as I've laughed around 336 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:27,359 the Bitfreighter team. 337 00:18:27,599 --> 00:18:30,240 You guys have a wonderful sense of humor. 338 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:32,079 SPEAKER_02: Oh, I appreciate that. 339 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,200 I had a good ab workout from laughing. 340 00:18:35,279 --> 00:18:40,799 We just had our company on site in Orlando, and man, we yeah, we 341 00:18:40,799 --> 00:18:42,880 had a good time, it was amazing. 342 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,640 SPEAKER_00: I I saw some of the pictures, so you have a you're 343 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,240 you're a fully remote business, so your get togethers have to be 344 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,680 somewhere, and you chose Universal Studios Orlando, like 345 00:18:53,839 --> 00:18:55,839 yep, novel choice. 346 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,200 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, to be honest, we were looking at like 347 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:06,319 a few options flying a remote company to a destination when 348 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,240 everybody's pretty spread out. 349 00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:12,480 It turns out flying to Orlando is actually pretty cheap, so and 350 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,440 there's a lot of venues there, so cost-wise, I don't think it 351 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,000 was like it was actually a good choice. 352 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,079 Um, and obviously it's Orlando, so we got to go to Universal, 353 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,319 and but it was a great time. 354 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:31,119 Brad gave a really good talk to like open it up first day, and 355 00:19:31,279 --> 00:19:33,200 you you've interviewed, you know, Brad. 356 00:19:33,279 --> 00:19:35,519 I mean, Brad's the heart and soul of the company. 357 00:19:35,839 --> 00:19:41,599 He, when I think about entrepreneurs, is really like he 358 00:19:41,599 --> 00:19:43,920 fits that label better than me, to be honest. 359 00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:48,799 Like he's interesting, more, he's more the visionary, he's 360 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:53,599 kind of got that feeling of um there's always more to be had, 361 00:19:53,839 --> 00:20:00,079 like we can always do more, and I'm sort of more like the yeah, 362 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,680 well, you know, there's holes to poke, like all the time. 363 00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:06,799 Like, I'm just like that's gonna be hard, that's gonna be risky, 364 00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:09,839 and so I I guess I'm a good devil on his shoulder. 365 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:16,640 Uh we make a great team, but um and I I'm sure I exhibit some 366 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:22,000 you know attributes that fit that that that what did you call 367 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,720 it, entrepreneur, founder vision. 368 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:29,119 Like I check some of those boxes, but Brad more than makes 369 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,799 up for my misgivings of well, it sounds like I'll I'll use 370 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:34,000 language that I'm familiar with. 371 00:20:34,079 --> 00:20:38,079 SPEAKER_00: The the visionary is uh uh fairly self-explanatory. 372 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,680 But the other role that doesn't get as much PR um is the 373 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,200 integrator, and that's part of the the EOS system for those who 374 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,759 are familiar, the entrepreneurial operating system 375 00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:53,440 uh book series that's uh traction is the name of it, and 376 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,680 the author's Geno Wickman, where the visionary is the one who 377 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,640 casts the vision and and brings the resources together, but the 378 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,920 integrator is the one who executes and keeps the trains 379 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,039 running on time and sees that everything is connected to 380 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:10,240 everything, and you have to make trade-offs and sequence work and 381 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,519 define the processes and do all of the things that keep the 382 00:21:13,519 --> 00:21:14,640 engine running. 383 00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:21,599 And mathematically, uh integrators are more scarce than 384 00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:22,319 visionaries. 385 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:29,839 There are it's something like one in um twenty in the general 386 00:21:29,839 --> 00:21:33,680 population in business could be considered uh uh a visionary, 387 00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:37,440 but it's something like one in fifty or one in fifty-five is an 388 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,240 integrator, and so the two are essential for each other. 389 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,599 The integrator needs the visionary to push them and set 390 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,319 seemingly unrealistic targets. 391 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,680 SPEAKER_02: Uh oh man, you yeah, this this sounds exactly like me 392 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:54,400 and Brad. 393 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,519 SPEAKER_00: And without the integrator, the vision goes 394 00:21:57,519 --> 00:22:01,920 unfulfilled, and so that is where I get a special joy. 395 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,559 I'm I'm personally an integrator myself, that's why I gotta give 396 00:22:04,559 --> 00:22:05,759 integrators a shout out. 397 00:22:05,839 --> 00:22:11,440 Um somebody's gotta give them a shout out that um they keep the 398 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,240 lights on, and when you find that right pairing of visionary 399 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,599 and integrator that are complementary skill sets, but 400 00:22:19,599 --> 00:22:25,279 they're aligned around the same values, then like friction just 401 00:22:25,279 --> 00:22:26,079 disappears. 402 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,559 And it's just you have your area, I have mine, and you get 403 00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:34,079 to see the best of what each has to offer. 404 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,839 And like Michael Jordan wouldn't have been Michael Jordan without 405 00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:38,720 Scottie Pippen. 406 00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:44,960 I mean, I'm gonna get a lot of flack for saying that, but um, 407 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,640 but he Michael Jordan would still be Michael Jordan, but we 408 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,720 he wouldn't have been able to achieve the last couple of 409 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,000 percent of greatness without Scottie Pippen. 410 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,039 And um, that's why I when we were talking about I wanted to 411 00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:04,640 have you on the show, this is why um I should do like a 412 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,920 co-founder series where we get to hear from both the visionary 413 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,400 and the integrator because you bring different things to the 414 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,720 table, and uh the visionaries are usually out front. 415 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,240 And the integrators are usually comfortable not being the lead 416 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:19,119 singer in the band. 417 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,079 They're yes, they're happy being the rhythm guitar player or the 418 00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:25,759 rhythm section, and yeah, that's where you're at your best, it 419 00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:26,559 sounds like. 420 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,599 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and I appreciate when you know Brad 421 00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:30,880 gives me credit, you know. 422 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,359 I I definitely appreciate that a lot of the times he's out there, 423 00:23:35,519 --> 00:23:38,480 and and I'm yeah, he's the that's a great way to say it. 424 00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:41,599 He's the lead singer, and I'm an awesome guitarist or whatever, 425 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,119 you know, and I'm okay with that. 426 00:23:43,279 --> 00:23:49,519 Um you know it's funny because I don't think Brad has a big ego. 427 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:54,400 I think that's a good thing in in any in most all situations, 428 00:23:54,559 --> 00:23:58,960 really, but you know, he does it very reluctantly, and I think 429 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,200 that that's he knows he has to. 430 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:02,640 Like we've talked about it. 431 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,000 I'm like, you know, you're you're the guy, you know, and 432 00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:07,920 you're a good guy to be the guy. 433 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,480 Like you're a genuine person. 434 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:16,000 And you know, if if you had seen the talk he gave to the company, 435 00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:18,720 it's very heartfelt, very touching. 436 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,240 He's just a good dude. 437 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:25,599 So anyone would be anybody that gets to know him knows he's he's 438 00:24:25,599 --> 00:24:27,519 a great guy to work for and work with. 439 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:28,160 Yeah. 440 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,880 SPEAKER_00: And I think his approach is more powerful 441 00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:34,480 because of that. 442 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,680 I would rather have somebody um who doesn't want the spotlight 443 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,039 have it because you know they're gonna they're gonna do it the 444 00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:46,720 right way, versus the person who's got a silver tongue and 445 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,000 they're super charismatic and they know how to hit all the 446 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,119 right notes, but there's no depth underneath it. 447 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,960 And those are I I watch out for those people actually because 448 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,920 they're they're not always who they say they are. 449 00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:03,440 Whereas someone like a Brad, he's like, Man, I could do so 450 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,039 much better if I did this or did that. 451 00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:07,839 Like, no, you keep doing it exactly the way that you're 452 00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:11,759 doing it because it's it's 10x more impactful. 453 00:25:11,839 --> 00:25:15,599 Um because everybody in the room can tell you'd rather not do it. 454 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:16,480 Yeah. 455 00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:21,119 That's what makes me love him. 456 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,200 SPEAKER_02: Well, it's funny too, because when he had first 457 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,440 approached me about this idea to build a business, I don't know 458 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:30,720 if I trusted him yet. 459 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,359 You know, I I had only worked with him, like I was doing my so 460 00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:40,160 nerdy consulting stuff for him, like I was writing some software 461 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,400 for him uh on some things, and you know, I liked working with 462 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,720 him and stuff, but I didn't know him that well. 463 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:54,559 And so when he proposed this idea, you know, I like to say 464 00:25:54,559 --> 00:25:56,240 ideas are just worthless, really. 465 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,720 Like, like kind of to your point, like actually doing it is 466 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,680 the biggest thing that matters. 467 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,519 Probably all the biggest most successful companies started 468 00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:11,519 with a really dumb idea, like let's sell stuff online, and 469 00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:13,200 then you get Amazon out of that. 470 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,559 There's no good idea there, it's just we're gonna do it better, 471 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:17,839 is all it is. 472 00:26:18,319 --> 00:26:23,279 And so when I hear like, hey, we should start a business, it's 473 00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:25,359 like tons of skepticism. 474 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:31,440 Sure, you know, and so you know, I basically I did see something 475 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,799 different in him in that he had a business already, he seemed 476 00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:38,079 like a guy that would put in the effort and that kind of thing. 477 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,039 And so I said, Well, sure, we'll do it, and if you can sell it, 478 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:44,319 I'll keep doing it. 479 00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:49,759 And boy, did he like yeah, and and I was like, All right, I 480 00:26:49,759 --> 00:26:51,119 guess we'll just keep doing this. 481 00:26:51,279 --> 00:26:54,720 So, you know, and then I obviously built tons of trust in 482 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,599 him over time, and uh, and here we are. 483 00:26:57,759 --> 00:27:00,240 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what what have you learned the most about 484 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,279 yourself in these last three or four years that you didn't 485 00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:03,920 expect? 486 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:06,000 SPEAKER_02: Hmm. 487 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,200 Um what have I learned? 488 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:18,319 I think I've learned I guess this is a skill, but it's still 489 00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:22,160 uncomfortable, but I'm learning it, is to let go more. 490 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:23,759 And I've had to. 491 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,200 It's a part of scaling. 492 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:30,559 There's just things that I was a bottleneck on, like being the 493 00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:34,240 only person that understands X, Y, or Z about our system. 494 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:35,839 I've had to let a lot of that go. 495 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,000 I and I think I'm at a point where you know, there's very few 496 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,559 times where there's something that's like we need Brandon for 497 00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:44,880 that. 498 00:27:45,839 --> 00:27:48,319 And I can feel comfortable in that. 499 00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:52,079 Whereas when I was at a, you know, maybe another company as 500 00:27:52,079 --> 00:27:57,359 an employee, like the goal would be to be the guy that people go 501 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,160 to in a way, to a degree at least. 502 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,400 But now I am almost trying to always replace myself. 503 00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:08,240 I know that's a saying, and that rings true for me. 504 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,640 It's like if there's something that's I'm needed for, that's a 505 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,240 scaling problem now. 506 00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:18,400 And there's always something new, and I could list off new 507 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,680 things I'm working on or whatever, but the plan is that 508 00:28:21,759 --> 00:28:24,640 those will be at some point, those will be a team. 509 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,640 And that's a different way of thinking. 510 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,400 I've never thought that way before. 511 00:28:28,559 --> 00:28:32,559 I've always been the guy that like wanted to build the own 512 00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:36,880 deck, build the deck on my house myself, or whatever, like cut my 513 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:43,039 own grass and like not think of it as there needs to be like a 514 00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:45,920 longer-term plan here where I'm not doing that. 515 00:28:46,319 --> 00:28:48,240 And Brad has helped me with that. 516 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,359 You know, he was much more comfortable with hiring people. 517 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,160 Um, as a consultant, I never had to really do that unless by 518 00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,880 force and or in a really low-risk way where like I had a 519 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,839 big project and I could get like a you know, I could consult out 520 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,559 hourly somebody, and it was like very, very direct and easy. 521 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,960 Like, you put in these hours, you'll get this pay. 522 00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:15,839 It's very different when you hire people and it's like a risk 523 00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:18,559 that you're gonna pay their salary no matter what they're 524 00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:19,039 working on. 525 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,839 And there's this whole feeling that goes with that of like 526 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,480 offloading what you do to these people, that I've gotten a lot 527 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:27,599 more comfortable with that. 528 00:29:27,759 --> 00:29:31,440 And I obviously it works, that's how companies work, but uh, I've 529 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:32,400 learned a lot about it. 530 00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:33,759 SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic. 531 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,960 Last question, then this was the first time I've ever asked a 532 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,000 question like this. 533 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,119 But I'll I'll preface it with oftentimes I ask entrepreneurs 534 00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:47,519 what their advice is for other entrepreneurs that are 535 00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:51,039 considering it, like they've got an idea, and sometimes they just 536 00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:54,880 need the courage to go and try it, and that is the barrier. 537 00:29:55,039 --> 00:29:59,519 And so get a lot of advice on just go for it, um, you'll never 538 00:29:59,519 --> 00:29:59,839 regret. 539 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,240 It you might fail, but you'll learn a ton. 540 00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:05,200 I'm gonna ask a different question this time. 541 00:30:05,519 --> 00:30:09,920 There are a lot of folks out there that are where you were, 542 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:15,440 where you're not the visionary, but you have others in your 543 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,960 circle that can be the CEO and you know and founder of a 544 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:26,319 business and they're weighing the should I do do I trust this 545 00:30:26,319 --> 00:30:26,480 person? 546 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,960 Do I trust that do I believe in their vision? 547 00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:32,720 So, what advice would you give to somebody who's considering 548 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:39,440 being the co-founder to that person based on your experience? 549 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:47,279 SPEAKER_02: That's tough because to be honest, you know, no 550 00:30:47,279 --> 00:30:50,799 matter what, you probably just have to try to find out. 551 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:57,759 And so I think I'd get used to trying things as experiments and 552 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:04,960 and putting some kind of limit on how I'm gonna value quitting 553 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:12,720 because I think that if you can put some kind of uh goal in mind 554 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,599 that if you can't do it, that it's okay, and maybe there's a 555 00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:18,240 better way. 556 00:31:18,559 --> 00:31:22,559 And so I do hear a lot of like entrepreneurs talk about never 557 00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:23,119 quitting. 558 00:31:23,519 --> 00:31:25,039 I think that can be dangerous. 559 00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:28,960 I think you should actually be ready to quit. 560 00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:34,640 Look at your situations with a bit of science, and like 561 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,480 sometimes there's products that just don't have a fit, and you 562 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:39,839 can go out and try a new thing. 563 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,039 And if you're good at trying, you don't have to quit as your 564 00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:43,599 life. 565 00:31:43,839 --> 00:31:44,400 Yeah, yeah. 566 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,279 You can quit an idea and find the right one. 567 00:31:47,359 --> 00:31:49,839 And I've had to do that uh uh quite a few times, actually. 568 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,799 So uh this was just the one that stuck basically. 569 00:31:53,119 --> 00:31:56,000 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like under these conditions, it will work 570 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,240 for me, and you've got some guardrails on either side 571 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,039 because I and you use the word experiment. 572 00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:08,559 So often I am including myself, can look at a major decision as 573 00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:12,079 being permanent, and this is going to be the rest of your 574 00:32:12,079 --> 00:32:14,319 life, and it's kind of all or nothing thinking. 575 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,759 Where when you think of it as a an experiment, that experiment 576 00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:20,480 might run for one year or four years. 577 00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:23,759 It may deliver what you thought it was going to, or you might 578 00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:29,039 get experience and value in other ways, but with few 579 00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:32,960 exceptions, those kinds of decisions are rarely, rarely 580 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:33,519 permanent. 581 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,519 And so that is good. 582 00:32:35,599 --> 00:32:38,160 Uh that's good contextual advice. 583 00:32:38,559 --> 00:32:42,079 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think experiments can be failures, but 584 00:32:42,079 --> 00:32:43,920 uh you aren't. 585 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:45,279 Ooh. 586 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,200 SPEAKER_00: That's a mic drop moment, if ever I've heard one. 587 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,160 SPEAKER_02: I need a rapper name now. 588 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,119 SPEAKER_00: Okay, no, I mean for real, like the experiment can 589 00:32:57,119 --> 00:32:58,720 fail, but it doesn't mean that you're a failure. 590 00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:01,519 That is, those are powerful words, especially for somebody 591 00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:03,759 that I know is generally more risk averse. 592 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,519 So uh it sounds like you have had your own transformative 593 00:33:07,519 --> 00:33:07,839 experience. 594 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,240 And of course, I've gotten to know you over the last couple of 595 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,319 years and um have always appreciated the the connection 596 00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:21,119 that we have as uh a fellow nerd and operator and integrator. 597 00:33:21,359 --> 00:33:25,599 So thank you so much for unpacking your your journey with 598 00:33:25,599 --> 00:33:26,160 us today. 599 00:33:26,319 --> 00:33:29,519 I can't wait to see you next summer at the golf tournament. 600 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:30,960 SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be amazing. 601 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,240 SPEAKER_00: It will be four years in a row is is not a small 602 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,119 accomplishment. 603 00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:37,680 And of course, Bitfreighter has been a sponsor to the 604 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,279 Bootstrappers Guide to Logistics. 605 00:33:39,359 --> 00:33:41,839 Brad is one of the people that reached out to me years ago and 606 00:33:41,839 --> 00:33:44,000 he's like, I believe in what you're doing and I want to 607 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:44,640 support you. 608 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:50,400 And man, like the confidence boost that I got from that was 609 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:51,839 totally unexpected. 610 00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:56,400 And then this whole community of people in the logistics industry 611 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,079 that I've gotten to become friends with, and my annual trip 612 00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:05,119 to Nashville every August has Bitfrater has literally become a 613 00:34:05,119 --> 00:34:06,160 part of my life. 614 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,400 And I did not expect that. 615 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:12,400 And so it's not just a sponsorship, it is it's 616 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,000 relationships and it is doing good business together. 617 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,760 And I'm grateful to you and to the entire Bitfreader team for 618 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,679 all the support I've personally received uh for the last several 619 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:23,920 years. 620 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,639 And I can't, even though the podcast isn't going to continue 621 00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:28,639 forever, I hope the relationships do. 622 00:34:29,039 --> 00:34:29,920 SPEAKER_02: That's amazing. 623 00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:31,360 All of that back at you. 624 00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:32,639 So thank you. 625 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,079 SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Brandon. 626 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,800 Um, we're all rooting for you. 627 00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:39,280 Oh man, appreciate it. 628 00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:39,920 Thank you. 629 00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:41,039 Take care, my friend. 630 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:42,239 You too. 631 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,119 Thanks for listening to another episode of the Bootstrapper's 632 00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:48,159 Guide to Logistics. 633 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,280 And a special thank you to our sponsors and the team behind the 634 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:52,800 scenes who make it all possible. 635 00:34:53,039 --> 00:34:56,079 Be sure to like, follow, or subscribe to the podcast to get 636 00:34:56,079 --> 00:34:57,199 the latest updates. 637 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,079 To learn more about the show and connect with the growing 638 00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:03,599 community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounders.com. 639 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,199 And of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to 640 00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:08,480 share their stories.