SPEAKER_00: Hello, and welcome to the Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics, the podcast highlighting founders doing it the way that doesn't get a lot of attention.
SPEAKER_00: We're here to change that by sharing their stories and inspiring others to take the lead.
SPEAKER_03: It's a roller coaster ride that you might ultimately fail.
SPEAKER_03: That's when I kind of knew I was on to something.
SPEAKER_02: It was very hard.
SPEAKER_03: It truly is building a legacy.
SPEAKER_03: The more life you live, the more wisdom you have.
SPEAKER_03: Because we are where we're supposed to be, kind of answering the call.
SPEAKER_00: Don't shoulder entrepreneurship on your own.
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Nate Shoots.
SPEAKER_00: Let's build something together from the ground up.
SPEAKER_00: Hello, everybody.
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the show.
SPEAKER_00: We are on episode 110.
SPEAKER_00: That's an absolutely crazy number for me to think about.
SPEAKER_00: That's 110 founders, 110 entrepreneurs with their own families, their own companies, their own stories.
SPEAKER_00: And um, what a ride I'm sharing here, you know, maybe for one of the first times publicly, that the Bootstrapper's guide to logistics isn't going to continue for another 20 years or anything like that.
SPEAKER_00: But we are in the home stretch, and we can unpack that more some other time.
SPEAKER_00: But um I'm especially delighted to have Brandon Joyce be number 110.
SPEAKER_00: Brandon Joyce is the CTO and co-founder of Bitfreighter, a company that I personally have come to know and love for many years for a bunch of different reasons.
SPEAKER_00: And so when I say Brandon, it is good to see you, you know I mean it.
SPEAKER_00: Um It's good to see you, Nate.
SPEAKER_00: We got two, you can't see this, folks, but we got two guys that have bald heads, glasses, and beards that love to golf and love the logistics industry and entrepreneurship.
SPEAKER_00: And so we've got, I'm just looking at a mirror today.
SPEAKER_00: And extremely good-looking people going on here.
SPEAKER_00: Uh well, we could go lots of different directions with our conversation today, Brandon.
SPEAKER_00: Why don't we start with a little bit of your background?
SPEAKER_00: You're the chief technology officer, which means you do a lot of the software development and coding and all the technical work that makes Bitfreighter work.
SPEAKER_00: So our listeners are very familiar with what Bitfreighter is, but can you tell us, give us an overview of how did you even get into uh being a technologist in the first place?
SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, have you ever heard of the game Doom?
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02: I, as a kid, I don't remember what age I was, that I experienced seeing that game for the first time and just wanted to play it so bad.
SPEAKER_02: And realizing that it was like my friend's dad that had a computer that could play it.
SPEAKER_02: And like there was no way to play that game unless you like had a computer.
SPEAKER_02: So I just set out like my whole goal in life was like, I'm gonna play that game somehow.
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what to like, we don't have a computer at home, I don't know what to do, right?
SPEAKER_02: So, really that sparked an interest in just computers in general, and uh I I remember actually finding a wagon and going door to door through my neighborhood and asking people for their extra aluminum cans.
SPEAKER_02: And I started a route through my neighborhood and the surrounding streets and would come pick up aluminum cans every Sunday for a summer and take them to the recycling center until I could buy a computer.
SPEAKER_02: And as soon as I bought the computer, I completely stopped doing that recycling route, and all my neighbors had all these aluminum cans stacked up.
SPEAKER_03: They would ask me, like, hey, are you coming around again?
SPEAKER_03: We've got a ton of these.
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was like, no, I'm a kid.
SPEAKER_00: Do you remember what you would get for a like a bag full or wagon load of aluminum cans?
SPEAKER_00: I feel like because I remember doing something similar when I was a kid, like taking a giant bag full down to the recycling place on my bike and thinking I'm gonna get like$50.
SPEAKER_00: And they handed me like six dollars and twenty cents.
SPEAKER_00: And I remember being like, this is right, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: Not what I hoped for.
SPEAKER_02: It was a lot.
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it got to a point where I would have huge trash bags full, it filling up our garage, and my parents had to help cart them over there and everything.
SPEAKER_02: It became a big thing.
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I was a way to be resourceful.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: But then, you know, after that, of course, like having the computer and just wanting to learn how to, you know, even setting up games back then, making them work, there was always some complexity to to make that happen, and you start digging into it, you you start, you know, getting into the 90s, and there's online, and then you would figure out that like there was this career called programming, and I had um I had some good influences in my life.
SPEAKER_02: Um, like I had this uh grandfather who um seemed to just take a interest in me, like he saw something in me that maybe I didn't, you know, and he started giving me programming books.
SPEAKER_02: And it was a weird time in history, I feel like, too, because like most careers you would choose have just been around for ages.
SPEAKER_02: Like if you're gonna be a lawyer or something like that's well established.
SPEAKER_02: But programming was pretty new still, like very few people would do that.
SPEAKER_02: Um, but there were rumors of it, and I was like just I just thought the idea of sitting on a computer, you know, doing things I loved, solving problems really appealed to me, and to get paid for that would be awesome.
SPEAKER_02: And so I just slowly figured out that I could do it, and you know, by the time I got to high school, I was just really lucky my high school actually had programming classes in the 90s, which even today to have programming classes in your high school is like I think very rare.
SPEAKER_02: And so we were legitimately programming in Pascal and C and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02: Um, and those were those were tools that really got me going.
SPEAKER_02: And I pretty much knew from like eighth grade on, I was like, uh this is what I want to do.
SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, I just got into it that way.
SPEAKER_02: And I got my first job right out of basic training uh with my buddy's mom who had this startup and she paid me like nothing, it was like barely minimum wage.
SPEAKER_02: But the fact that I was like 18 or 19 years old and I had an office job, I thought I was so cool.
SPEAKER_02: Like so grown up, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: I was so grown up.
SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, when I would sleep there overnight with my shirt off and then wake up on the couch when people were walking in.
SPEAKER_03: I'm sure that was like so grown up of me.
SPEAKER_03: It's like I was working all night and I fell asleep here.
SPEAKER_03: I ate all the hot pockets, we're gonna need more.
SPEAKER_00: So you went right into basic training out of high school then.
SPEAKER_00: Uh first of all, thank you for your service.
SPEAKER_00: Second, thank you.
SPEAKER_00: What did the military teach you and how did you how do you apply that um to the field that you're in?
SPEAKER_02: Um I think the main thing I got out of the military was a sense of accomplishment, maybe some confidence.
SPEAKER_02: I was pretty shy, I would say.
SPEAKER_02: I'm one of these people that's like naturally shy, but then when you put me in a situation, I I tend to like almost just be exuberantly outgoing to combat my my fear or something.
SPEAKER_02: And so uh I think the army taught me that a little bit.
SPEAKER_02: And I joined the army.
SPEAKER_02: It was in the National Guard, you get to like choose where you'll be stationed and stuff.
SPEAKER_02: So I joined with like five high school buddies.
SPEAKER_02: We all joined the artillery unit that was in our town, and so we got to like go through that process together, and it was to it was the main motivation was to pay for college.
SPEAKER_02: So I think that was probably the one thing that you know we were all there for was that was worth the bag, and we would uh we all at least tried to go to college.
SPEAKER_00: I actually dropped out later, but but you said you were an introvert um as well, and I'm just connecting a couple of of thoughts here.
SPEAKER_00: Plus computers, plus programming, you're a very logical thinker, is what's what stands out to me.
SPEAKER_00: And I obviously know you um as well.
SPEAKER_00: What I like about software engineering is anytime that there's a flaw in your logic, it shows up in the product.
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: Whereas when you're just talking, having a let's say you're having a debate with somebody about any random topic, we all have these blind spots in our thinking or these biases or contradictions in our own thinking that unless you're engaging with somebody who's skilled at pointing out those uh logic gaps, you can kind of steamroll somebody with personality or force or something like that.
SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to computer programming, if you get it wrong, everybody knows, and everybody knows exactly what you got wrong.
SPEAKER_00: And so you have to sometimes, or as a writer of software, you have to have a high degree of humility to be able to know that everything you create is going to be imperfect.
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
SPEAKER_02: I think the best engineers have a lot of humility and um you know just the process of even getting code into production on most teams, you're gonna have the other engineers reviewing your code, for example, and critiquing it and telling you how to make it better, and and you have to be okay with that, and that that's just a natural part of the process.
SPEAKER_02: I think if you take you could easily take your code as like too personally as your you know your art form and you know, and the and take offense to things, but uh, you know, and and I have the people we work with at Bitfreighter, there's honestly varying degrees of that skill.
SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes you gotta, you know, you gotta know how to give that feedback.
SPEAKER_02: You have to like, you know, hey, the you don't just say your code sucks, you know.
SPEAKER_02: Like, but like me, hey, did you consider this and stuff?
SPEAKER_02: You know, there's uh there's a lot in programming, I would say, especially nowadays, that's not just uh you know, a nerd in a dark corner that nobody talks to.
SPEAKER_00: Well, on on that note then, I know that you have done your own consulting for years as well, and so you have your own business that you formed to be to do that, and I love the name of it.
SPEAKER_00: So nerdy LLC.
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
SPEAKER_00: That's just like right out front, like, hey, here's who I am.
SPEAKER_00: This is so nerdy.
SPEAKER_00: How did you how did you decide to actually file the paperwork and like this is what I want to be?
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02: I it was an available domain name.
SPEAKER_02: Um, there was just something about it that appealed to me.
SPEAKER_02: You know, I like to label myself a nerd, but in a like, I'm acting like I'm trying to be cool kind of way.
SPEAKER_02: Um, so like I can relate.
SPEAKER_02: Have you seen adventures in babysitting?
SPEAKER_02: Yes, where like the guy had that, I think his license plate was like too cool or something.
SPEAKER_02: I was just like, go the go with that attitude, but the reverse way.
SPEAKER_02: And so I got the so nerdy license plate and stuff, got lots of compliments on that, you know.
SPEAKER_02: It's just just embrace it and kind of like be a confident nerd, I guess.
SPEAKER_00: And that is totally possible.
SPEAKER_00: I think the world is if if you go back 30 or 40 years, it was uh an insult, right?
SPEAKER_00: It's not an insult anymore.
SPEAKER_00: Now it is uh my favorite one was somebody told me this.
SPEAKER_00: They said when I was in high school, they used to call me nerd.
SPEAKER_00: You know what they call me now?
SPEAKER_00: Boss.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
unknown: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So I I always loved that one.
SPEAKER_00: Uh so what do you actually do at Bitfreighter now then?
SPEAKER_02: Still write some code.
SPEAKER_02: I I mean the first few years it was just like an extreme amount of working on the code and getting that working and starting to grow the team.
SPEAKER_02: Um I was, I feel like luckily lucky to have started a startup at my age.
SPEAKER_02: I'm 43 now, where I have a history of work where I can look back and I have like a really good network of awesome people.
SPEAKER_02: That's helped up helped me a lot.
SPEAKER_02: So hiring has been a big part of it.
SPEAKER_02: And there's it's an amazing feeling of gratitude and pressure, really, when you bring somebody from your past into this ride, you know, of this thing that's kind of yours, that uh it feels weird.
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how to explain it exactly, but it's it's obviously a lot of gratitude, and then you bring these amazing people in and they just make this thing so much better.
SPEAKER_02: Um so that's a big part of my day, I guess, is uh making you know, building the team, but working with those people.
SPEAKER_00: Um what do you mean by the pressure part of it?
SPEAKER_00: Is that you're now responsible uh for them and their families, or is it you don't want to screw up the culture?
SPEAKER_00: Or like what is what do you mean by pressure?
SPEAKER_02: Oh, keep going.
SPEAKER_02: Those are good examples.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's that stuff.
SPEAKER_02: I mean, when there's all kinds of things that could go wrong, or there's or there's goals that we have where you want to reward people and you don't know if you can do it.
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, this year we've done really well, so we enhanced our healthcare package, and man, that felt good because you know, like startup offering a premium healthcare package is tough.
SPEAKER_02: So, like, there was like this feeling of like, you know, this is just like not good enough for them, you know, they're doing such amazing work, they deserve something better.
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we can only do what we can do, but and you know you want to get there, and so I just feel that pressure while you're building the company to offer to offer them more, I guess.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And plus, as a bootstrapped company, day one, right?
SPEAKER_00: You have to make a bunch of trade-offs of yes, we are going to control our own destiny, but that means we're also going to have limited resources.
SPEAKER_00: And the spirit of bootstrapping is at its core a long-term mindset.
SPEAKER_00: It has to be, because nobody would choose to make the sacrifices that bootstrappers have to make if they were only in it for three or four years.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: I think what took me some time to understand that made me feel better, and actually just getting feedback directly from the team about this, because I'm pretty open and would share this feeling with the team, is that um, you know, they took the job for the pay and benefits and everything that came with it.
SPEAKER_02: And they probably had some other place they worked that maybe had it better.
SPEAKER_02: Like I was at those jobs with them where it's like, you know, we're at some established company where, you know, the the rewards are great or something.
SPEAKER_02: But they came here not just for that.
SPEAKER_02: They they made that decision because they knew working here would be fun, that we would work on hard problems, that they would feel like they're having a big impact, that it would get there eventually, that they trusted me, that the leadership here is good, and there's so much benefit that's built into working at Bitfritter and having fully remote, just our culture, everything, equals a lot of reward.
SPEAKER_02: And I didn't like value that as much as I probably should have because I was just thinking numbers so much.
SPEAKER_00: And having spent enough time, I mean, I've spent a lot of time with Bitfreighter now.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've shared I've shared meals with your team three times, three years in a row, we've done the Karen Cameron golf tournament.
SPEAKER_00: So I've spent as I think about this now, I've spent more time with Bitfreighter than any other company in the last three years.
SPEAKER_00: And and the people, and you do have something that is a little bit difficult to articulate, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00: It is a vibe that this is the word that just came to my mind was kindness.
SPEAKER_00: Everybody in the company is kind to one another, and you don't always, I mean, I'm sure it's not always that way, people are gonna have conflict, but there is a genuine sense of uh people like each other and they want to be around each other, and um, everybody from Dave to Brad, um Hannah, like everybody is there because they want to be there, they don't have to be.
SPEAKER_00: And you also don't take yourselves too seriously.
SPEAKER_00: There's an element uh you said fun.
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've ever laughed as much as I've laughed around the Bitfreighter team.
SPEAKER_00: You guys have a wonderful sense of humor.
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02: I had a good ab workout from laughing.
SPEAKER_02: We just had our company on site in Orlando, and man, we yeah, we had a good time, it was amazing.
SPEAKER_00: I I saw some of the pictures, so you have a you're you're a fully remote business, so your get togethers have to be somewhere, and you chose Universal Studios Orlando, like yep, novel choice.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, to be honest, we were looking at like a few options flying a remote company to a destination when everybody's pretty spread out.
SPEAKER_02: It turns out flying to Orlando is actually pretty cheap, so and there's a lot of venues there, so cost-wise, I don't think it was like it was actually a good choice.
SPEAKER_02: Um, and obviously it's Orlando, so we got to go to Universal, and but it was a great time.
SPEAKER_02: Brad gave a really good talk to like open it up first day, and you you've interviewed, you know, Brad.
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Brad's the heart and soul of the company.
SPEAKER_02: He, when I think about entrepreneurs, is really like he fits that label better than me, to be honest.
SPEAKER_02: Like he's interesting, more, he's more the visionary, he's kind of got that feeling of um there's always more to be had, like we can always do more, and I'm sort of more like the yeah, well, you know, there's holes to poke, like all the time.
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm just like that's gonna be hard, that's gonna be risky, and so I I guess I'm a good devil on his shoulder.
SPEAKER_02: Uh we make a great team, but um and I I'm sure I exhibit some you know attributes that fit that that that what did you call it, entrepreneur, founder vision.
SPEAKER_02: Like I check some of those boxes, but Brad more than makes up for my misgivings of well, it sounds like I'll I'll use language that I'm familiar with.
SPEAKER_00: The the visionary is uh uh fairly self-explanatory.
SPEAKER_00: But the other role that doesn't get as much PR um is the integrator, and that's part of the the EOS system for those who are familiar, the entrepreneurial operating system uh book series that's uh traction is the name of it, and the author's Geno Wickman, where the visionary is the one who casts the vision and and brings the resources together, but the integrator is the one who executes and keeps the trains running on time and sees that everything is connected to everything, and you have to make trade-offs and sequence work and define the processes and do all of the things that keep the engine running.
SPEAKER_00: And mathematically, uh integrators are more scarce than visionaries.
SPEAKER_00: There are it's something like one in um twenty in the general population in business could be considered uh uh a visionary, but it's something like one in fifty or one in fifty-five is an integrator, and so the two are essential for each other.
SPEAKER_00: The integrator needs the visionary to push them and set seemingly unrealistic targets.
SPEAKER_02: Uh oh man, you yeah, this this sounds exactly like me and Brad.
SPEAKER_00: And without the integrator, the vision goes unfulfilled, and so that is where I get a special joy.
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm personally an integrator myself, that's why I gotta give integrators a shout out.
SPEAKER_00: Um somebody's gotta give them a shout out that um they keep the lights on, and when you find that right pairing of visionary and integrator that are complementary skill sets, but they're aligned around the same values, then like friction just disappears.
SPEAKER_00: And it's just you have your area, I have mine, and you get to see the best of what each has to offer.
SPEAKER_00: And like Michael Jordan wouldn't have been Michael Jordan without Scottie Pippen.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm gonna get a lot of flack for saying that, but um, but he Michael Jordan would still be Michael Jordan, but we he wouldn't have been able to achieve the last couple of percent of greatness without Scottie Pippen.
SPEAKER_00: And um, that's why I when we were talking about I wanted to have you on the show, this is why um I should do like a co-founder series where we get to hear from both the visionary and the integrator because you bring different things to the table, and uh the visionaries are usually out front.
SPEAKER_00: And the integrators are usually comfortable not being the lead singer in the band.
SPEAKER_00: They're yes, they're happy being the rhythm guitar player or the rhythm section, and yeah, that's where you're at your best, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and I appreciate when you know Brad gives me credit, you know.
SPEAKER_02: I I definitely appreciate that a lot of the times he's out there, and and I'm yeah, he's the that's a great way to say it.
SPEAKER_02: He's the lead singer, and I'm an awesome guitarist or whatever, you know, and I'm okay with that.
SPEAKER_02: Um you know it's funny because I don't think Brad has a big ego.
SPEAKER_02: I think that's a good thing in in any in most all situations, really, but you know, he does it very reluctantly, and I think that that's he knows he has to.
SPEAKER_02: Like we've talked about it.
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, you know, you're you're the guy, you know, and you're a good guy to be the guy.
SPEAKER_02: Like you're a genuine person.
SPEAKER_02: And you know, if if you had seen the talk he gave to the company, it's very heartfelt, very touching.
SPEAKER_02: He's just a good dude.
SPEAKER_02: So anyone would be anybody that gets to know him knows he's he's a great guy to work for and work with.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And I think his approach is more powerful because of that.
SPEAKER_00: I would rather have somebody um who doesn't want the spotlight have it because you know they're gonna they're gonna do it the right way, versus the person who's got a silver tongue and they're super charismatic and they know how to hit all the right notes, but there's no depth underneath it.
SPEAKER_00: And those are I I watch out for those people actually because they're they're not always who they say they are.
SPEAKER_00: Whereas someone like a Brad, he's like, Man, I could do so much better if I did this or did that.
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, you keep doing it exactly the way that you're doing it because it's it's 10x more impactful.
SPEAKER_00: Um because everybody in the room can tell you'd rather not do it.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: That's what makes me love him.
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's funny too, because when he had first approached me about this idea to build a business, I don't know if I trusted him yet.
SPEAKER_02: You know, I I had only worked with him, like I was doing my so nerdy consulting stuff for him, like I was writing some software for him uh on some things, and you know, I liked working with him and stuff, but I didn't know him that well.
SPEAKER_02: And so when he proposed this idea, you know, I like to say ideas are just worthless, really.
SPEAKER_02: Like, like kind of to your point, like actually doing it is the biggest thing that matters.
SPEAKER_02: Probably all the biggest most successful companies started with a really dumb idea, like let's sell stuff online, and then you get Amazon out of that.
SPEAKER_02: There's no good idea there, it's just we're gonna do it better, is all it is.
SPEAKER_02: And so when I hear like, hey, we should start a business, it's like tons of skepticism.
SPEAKER_02: Sure, you know, and so you know, I basically I did see something different in him in that he had a business already, he seemed like a guy that would put in the effort and that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02: And so I said, Well, sure, we'll do it, and if you can sell it, I'll keep doing it.
SPEAKER_02: And boy, did he like yeah, and and I was like, All right, I guess we'll just keep doing this.
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, and then I obviously built tons of trust in him over time, and uh, and here we are.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what what have you learned the most about yourself in these last three or four years that you didn't expect?
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
SPEAKER_02: Um what have I learned?
SPEAKER_02: I think I've learned I guess this is a skill, but it's still uncomfortable, but I'm learning it, is to let go more.
SPEAKER_02: And I've had to.
SPEAKER_02: It's a part of scaling.
SPEAKER_02: There's just things that I was a bottleneck on, like being the only person that understands X, Y, or Z about our system.
SPEAKER_02: I've had to let a lot of that go.
SPEAKER_02: I and I think I'm at a point where you know, there's very few times where there's something that's like we need Brandon for that.
SPEAKER_02: And I can feel comfortable in that.
SPEAKER_02: Whereas when I was at a, you know, maybe another company as an employee, like the goal would be to be the guy that people go to in a way, to a degree at least.
SPEAKER_02: But now I am almost trying to always replace myself.
SPEAKER_02: I know that's a saying, and that rings true for me.
SPEAKER_02: It's like if there's something that's I'm needed for, that's a scaling problem now.
SPEAKER_02: And there's always something new, and I could list off new things I'm working on or whatever, but the plan is that those will be at some point, those will be a team.
SPEAKER_02: And that's a different way of thinking.
SPEAKER_02: I've never thought that way before.
SPEAKER_02: I've always been the guy that like wanted to build the own deck, build the deck on my house myself, or whatever, like cut my own grass and like not think of it as there needs to be like a longer-term plan here where I'm not doing that.
SPEAKER_02: And Brad has helped me with that.
SPEAKER_02: You know, he was much more comfortable with hiring people.
SPEAKER_02: Um, as a consultant, I never had to really do that unless by force and or in a really low-risk way where like I had a big project and I could get like a you know, I could consult out hourly somebody, and it was like very, very direct and easy.
SPEAKER_02: Like, you put in these hours, you'll get this pay.
SPEAKER_02: It's very different when you hire people and it's like a risk that you're gonna pay their salary no matter what they're working on.
SPEAKER_02: And there's this whole feeling that goes with that of like offloading what you do to these people, that I've gotten a lot more comfortable with that.
SPEAKER_02: And I obviously it works, that's how companies work, but uh, I've learned a lot about it.
SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
SPEAKER_00: Last question, then this was the first time I've ever asked a question like this.
SPEAKER_00: But I'll I'll preface it with oftentimes I ask entrepreneurs what their advice is for other entrepreneurs that are considering it, like they've got an idea, and sometimes they just need the courage to go and try it, and that is the barrier.
SPEAKER_00: And so get a lot of advice on just go for it, um, you'll never regret.
SPEAKER_00: It you might fail, but you'll learn a ton.
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna ask a different question this time.
SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of folks out there that are where you were, where you're not the visionary, but you have others in your circle that can be the CEO and you know and founder of a business and they're weighing the should I do do I trust this person?
SPEAKER_00: Do I trust that do I believe in their vision?
SPEAKER_00: So, what advice would you give to somebody who's considering being the co-founder to that person based on your experience?
SPEAKER_02: That's tough because to be honest, you know, no matter what, you probably just have to try to find out.
SPEAKER_02: And so I think I'd get used to trying things as experiments and and putting some kind of limit on how I'm gonna value quitting because I think that if you can put some kind of uh goal in mind that if you can't do it, that it's okay, and maybe there's a better way.
SPEAKER_02: And so I do hear a lot of like entrepreneurs talk about never quitting.
SPEAKER_02: I think that can be dangerous.
SPEAKER_02: I think you should actually be ready to quit.
SPEAKER_02: Look at your situations with a bit of science, and like sometimes there's products that just don't have a fit, and you can go out and try a new thing.
SPEAKER_02: And if you're good at trying, you don't have to quit as your life.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: You can quit an idea and find the right one.
SPEAKER_02: And I've had to do that uh uh quite a few times, actually.
SPEAKER_02: So uh this was just the one that stuck basically.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like under these conditions, it will work for me, and you've got some guardrails on either side because I and you use the word experiment.
SPEAKER_00: So often I am including myself, can look at a major decision as being permanent, and this is going to be the rest of your life, and it's kind of all or nothing thinking.
SPEAKER_00: Where when you think of it as a an experiment, that experiment might run for one year or four years.
SPEAKER_00: It may deliver what you thought it was going to, or you might get experience and value in other ways, but with few exceptions, those kinds of decisions are rarely, rarely permanent.
SPEAKER_00: And so that is good.
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's good contextual advice.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think experiments can be failures, but uh you aren't.
SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
SPEAKER_00: That's a mic drop moment, if ever I've heard one.
SPEAKER_02: I need a rapper name now.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, no, I mean for real, like the experiment can fail, but it doesn't mean that you're a failure.
SPEAKER_00: That is, those are powerful words, especially for somebody that I know is generally more risk averse.
SPEAKER_00: So uh it sounds like you have had your own transformative experience.
SPEAKER_00: And of course, I've gotten to know you over the last couple of years and um have always appreciated the the connection that we have as uh a fellow nerd and operator and integrator.
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for unpacking your your journey with us today.
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to see you next summer at the golf tournament.
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be amazing.
SPEAKER_00: It will be four years in a row is is not a small accomplishment.
SPEAKER_00: And of course, Bitfreighter has been a sponsor to the Bootstrappers Guide to Logistics.
SPEAKER_00: Brad is one of the people that reached out to me years ago and he's like, I believe in what you're doing and I want to support you.
SPEAKER_00: And man, like the confidence boost that I got from that was totally unexpected.
SPEAKER_00: And then this whole community of people in the logistics industry that I've gotten to become friends with, and my annual trip to Nashville every August has Bitfrater has literally become a part of my life.
SPEAKER_00: And I did not expect that.
SPEAKER_00: And so it's not just a sponsorship, it is it's relationships and it is doing good business together.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm grateful to you and to the entire Bitfreader team for all the support I've personally received uh for the last several years.
SPEAKER_00: And I can't, even though the podcast isn't going to continue forever, I hope the relationships do.
SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
SPEAKER_02: All of that back at you.
SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Brandon.
SPEAKER_00: Um, we're all rooting for you.
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
SPEAKER_00: Take care, my friend.
SPEAKER_00: You too.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to another episode of the Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics.
SPEAKER_00: And a special thank you to our sponsors and the team behind the scenes who make it all possible.
SPEAKER_00: Be sure to like, follow, or subscribe to the podcast to get the latest updates.
SPEAKER_00: To learn more about the show and connect with the growing community of entrepreneurs, visit logisticsfounders.com.
SPEAKER_00: And of course, thank you to all the founders who trust us to share their stories.