S6E12: 42nd Street, 1933

(Episode recorded May 7, 2025)

Review #11 of the season, and our 7th nominee for Outstanding Production at the Sixth Academy Awards. 42nd Steet is a full-blown musical, and we have a full-blown stupendous guest in Klarissa Beckstead from I've Seen That One!  

The film's musical numbers are staged and choreographed by Busby Berkeley. It stars an ensemble cast of Warner Baxter, Bebe Daniels, George Brent, Ruby Keeler, Dick Powell and Ginger Rogers. It was one of the most successful motion pictures of the year, and is often regarded as one of the greatest musicals ever made. And while we don't talk about this one air, In 2013 42nd Street was included on the list of films that pass the Bechdel test.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

So, Dad, we haven't done this in six months.

SPEAKER_01 0:03

I know, sweetie. I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Okay, let's take it away. So and the nominees are. Hello, and welcome to Shea Cinema, the Best Picture Project. I am your host, Sarah Shea.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

And I am your co-host, William Shea. As we shuffle off to Buffalo, we hope that we will become a habit with you. Together, we will be watching and reviewing every film nominated for the Academy Award for Best Picture.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

We are recreating a project. I assigned my high school film studies students, which includes contextual historical research, discussing our personal responses to each film, what makes these films important, why we need to understand these movies in context, and finally, did the winner deserve the Oscar?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

And today, Sarah, we are on episode 12 of season six, our longest season so far, reviewing the seventh movie nominated for what they were then calling outstanding production at the Sixth Academy Awards. We are watching 42nd Street.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

And joining us today is one of my very good friends, one of my movie best friends, Clarissa Bextedt. Welcome, Clarissa.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. It is just such a blast to be here talking old Hollywood with both of you. And I just am so grateful.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Excellent. Tell everyone who you are, what you do, where we can find you, all of that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Yes, absolutely. So I am at I've seen that one on Instagram. I started a journey of trying to watch classics that I had never seen. I felt like there were way too many. And of course, I think we all kind of everyone who loves movies goes through their life, like, oh, I haven't seen that classic. I want to watch it and check it off the list, everything like that. But that's kind of been my big venture. So I've been doing that over there. Excellent.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

And she's got great and amazing content, super, super fun. Your page has grown exponentially just within one year. And you have so many things going on, so many guest spots on other shows. And one of the fun things, Clarissa and I got to know each other because we were introduced by our mutual friend Andrew Corns, because we appeared on an episode of the Revisionist Almanac, in which we covered the entire year in cinema in 1934. And so we spent almost a year talking to each other and getting to know each other beforehand. And we had such an amazing time getting to know each other as human beings, but also talking about old cinema and in fact talking about the year following the movies that we are doing right now. And we had such a blast talking about old movies. And I said, we gotta get Clarissa on the show immediately, which of course ended up being much later than we thought because we took such a giant break. But our previous episode, which was actually recorded six months ago, was with Andrew covering King Kong. And so I'm so glad that I we got to have you two back to back. Yay!

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Yes, me too. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Okay, so 42nd Street. We watched it on Amazon, and it is available on most streaming platforms for purchase or rent. It's readily available. Now, its New York premiere was on March 9th, 1933, and its general release was just a few days later on March 11th, 1993. The director is Lloyd Bacon. Now, this is our first encounter with him for the project. However, he does go on to direct an outstanding production nominee for next season as well, and that is the movie Here Comes the Navy.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

I must add that in your review of 1934, that the two of you didn't particularly care for that film.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

So no, Andrew didn't either. So it's really funny that the director of this film directed that film. And of course, all things being equal, it should have been that I didn't encounter Here Comes the Navy until we got to it for next season. But we've seen them all up front. And you can listen to that episode of The Revisionist Almanac 1934 to hear Clarissa and Andrew and I rip that movie to shreds. And if you want hey, if you want to join us next season to talk about it in detail, because we have to do a whole episode on it.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

I can hardly wait.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Oh, it's gonna be great. So the screenplay for this film, it's actually an adaptation, believe it or not. So this is a musical movie, but it is an adaptation from a 1932 novel of the same name by Bradford Ropes. The novel and then this movie were then both adapted into a Tony Award-winning stage musical, 42nd Street, in 1980. Completely bizarre, but the screenplay for the film was written by Ryan James and James Seymour. This film, 42nd Street, did have two nominations at the Sixth Academy Awards, one for Outstanding Production, which is why we're talking about it, as well as Best Sound Recording for Nathan Levinson, nominated for two awards, did not win two awards. Starring Warner Baxter as Julian Marsh. Now we saw Warner Baxter one single time previously for our project because he won Best Actor at the second Academy Awards for playing the Cisco Kid in Old Arizona. He was the best thing about that movie.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

He probably like saying Millard Fillmore was a better president than Zachary Taylor.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

He was pretty good in the film. In fact, I can't even remember who else was nominated for best actor that year, but he's he's better in this movie. We'll say that. We also have BB Daniels, George Brent. Now, George Brent, I don't think we're gonna see him too often, but he was most well known for making 11 films with Betty Davis. Now, Clarissa, you were just introduced to Betty Davis when we did all of the films from 1934. So I don't know if you remember George Brent in this film as Pat Denning, but you're gonna see much more of him because I know you're gonna go on your Betty Davis journey this summer, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Yes, I have all of August dedicated to Betty Davis. So if anybody listening has specific Betty Davis recommendations, please send them my way. I'm so excited for that.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Dad, do you have a particular Betty Davis movie that you enjoy? Do you even like Betty Davis?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Well, I I I I in some ways I thought she was a bit overrated. There's some stories we can tell uh when the uh uh well I I mean we we could tell them now too, but she she uh lobbied hard to be uh the bad woman in uh uh of human bondage.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Right, yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

And um and really worked hard at that and and was the cause for the very first time in uh in uh Oscar history to uh uh uh demand uh write-in ballots for for a best actress. And so so people liked her and she she liked herself. She she's she's okay. I I uh uh uh shit not not not my cup of tea, but she got she got a lot of attention and um uh and and not that her movies are bad. I I just it's just okay. Here's here's here's Betty Davis. When I was a when I was uh uh older teenager, uh we saw Betty Davis and Joan Crawford in a film called Whatever Happened to Baby Jane or something like that. That was the downside of their careers at that point.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

It's so it's such a I love I love that movie because it is so over it is so over the top.

SPEAKER_04 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

But I do also, we really liked her in Of Human Bondage, and in fact, Clarissa nominated her for the revisionist albanac for best supporting actress.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

And I have to tell you, I have not seen that film.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

I think that you so it's got it has Leslie Howard in it, and it's actually so far my favorite of his roles that I have seen, actually. Actually, okay, and I know that you know that I don't like him particularly much. I did like him in Smiling Through. I do not like him in Um Gone with the Wind, but he's very gonna ask.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

That's the other movie I know him from.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

It does remind me, however, that he was also in a film with Betty Davis called The Petrified Forest.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

That's a good one, too. I forgot about that one as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

I liked that movie. Yeah, that one's too. I thought Betty Davis was pretty good in that. In fact, that may be my favorite Betty Davis.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Is that also is Bumpy Gokart in that movie as well? Sorry, uh Humphrey Bogart.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Yes, he is. That was a stage play. It's a well, well, well-crafted script, and uh uh uh but but she was she she was good in that. I I have to take back. I that that'd probably be my favorite Betty Davis film.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yeah, sorry. We grew up calling Humphrey Bogart Bumpy Gogart.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

I was gonna say, I was like, I feel like I vaguely remember you saying that one time.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

We talked about that.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Yes. Yes, but I was like, I I think it just still gives me this weight.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

It's it's I can't help it. It's the first thing that I say, just like I say Fred upstairs instead of Fred Astairs.

unknown 10:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Well, if if if you remember, sorry, in the Bay Area, they developed a rapid transit system called BART. Okay, Bay Area Rapid Transit System. And uh it it went to the uh University of California campus, where the uh uh uh little buses that took people to the stations were called uh Humphrey Gobart.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

So boy.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Anyway, we're we're we're way afield here.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

We are let's get back on track and also starring Ruby Keeler. Now, this is Ruby Keeler's film debut. She is also famously known as Al Jolson's wife. She is in the movie Flirtation Walk. Did you end up seeing Flirtation Walk finally?

SPEAKER_03 11:23

No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

You're fired.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

I know. This is my last day. No pension for me.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Okay. She's also in that film with Dick Powell, who is in this film as well. We also have Guy Kibby. Now, Guy Kibbe, I think we are gonna see in three movies in a row. We're gonna see him in this, we're gonna see him in our next episode and the episode after that. So we're gonna get a whole bunch of Guy Kibby all at once. We will talk about him once we get into the movie. We also have Una Merkel, who is playing um kind of the best friend sidekick. She's phenomenal. We have Ginger Rogers for the first time for us for the project, not for the first time in my life, but first time for the project. Ned Sparks, who I think we are also going to see in three movies in a row. He's in all of these same movies as well. Alan Jenkins is in this, our good friend, George E. Stone. We've seen him in like 65 movies. This is only our 59th episode, but he's been in every movie that we've done pretty much. And then finally, we are also going to see ever so briefly Louise Beavers. Now, I am specifically mentioning her. This is an uncredited role for her. She um was also in our previous episode, She Done Him Wrong with Mae West. Now, Mae West specifically asked for Louise Beavers to be in that film with her. She plays Mae West's maid, and that's typically the roles that she did. But we look, Clarissa, we encountered her in the film Imitation of Life for the 1934 episode. Dad, we're gonna be covering Imitation of Life next season. Have you seen it before? Okay, so she is in that film with Claudette Colbert, and it is an incredible movie. And she was mine and Andrew's nomination for Best Supporting Actress for 1934. Now that category didn't exist in 1934, so we were just making stuff up, and the public agreed and put her in the revisionist almanac. She is an outstanding actress. She's only in this for the briefest of moments, playing a really stereotypical role. But she was in a lot of films, and she was a particular favorite of Mae West, who really championed trying to have people of color in film, and just wanted to make sure that we mentioned her because she is going to be a big figure for us next season. And then you can also hear Clarissa and Andrew and I talk about her on The Revisionist Almanac as well. So now we get to the question: did we know anything about this film before we watched it for this project? Clarissa, I'm gonna start with you. What did you know about this film beforehand?

SPEAKER_03 14:17

Hey, I actually didn't know it. I feel like I knew of it, kind of just word of mouth. This is it's a musical, and I grew up doing musical theater, so I feel like it was one of those musicals that's been mentioned. Um, one musical that I I think it's just a rendition of it, and I only know a few of the songs, but is Love on 42nd Street and Sierra Boggus does an amazing job on that soundtrack. So growing up, I was like, oh, I know these for some audition songs, but I never put it together like the story of that musical. I just knew some of the songs. So I was excited for this because I had been acquainted with none of the songs were the same, but I still was like, this is gonna be a really great story. I know there's gonna be some really strong music because if they were inspired by this film to do this musical or even a rendition or some kind of segment, even if they're related, it's gonna be great. So that was kind of my my knowledge of it. And it was it was really fun to go in blind. I I really liked going in blind and not having any expectations.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

And so this was a first watch for you, correct? Okay, go ahead, Dad.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

And and to me, that's one of the nice things about having Clarissa here is that we get a fresh look at a movie that I've known for most of my life. Okay. Uh uh uh but but it it really did something to watch it a couple of times uh recently because you you get another sense of it from uh uh various perspectives. So yeah, it was well known to me.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Do you remember the first time that you saw it, Dad?

SPEAKER_01 15:56

No. No, it was it was I mean, I I I I was I was a I was a kid, you know, right the watching it on television. Uh uh we we were always interested in Al Jolson, and here was this movie with Ruby Keeler and uh saying, well, okay, what's the what's the story here? And it didn't have Jolson, it just had her. And um in the movie Jolson, the Jolson story, uh the character that Joel Jolson marries, uh who they call in the movie Julie Benson, is really Ruby Keeler, and uh uh and so they they they sort of jam together and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a movie that I've that I've liked for a very long time, and uh and like it even more after having seen it for the project.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Yeah, so dad introduced me to this. I've known this film my whole life. I cannot remember a time that I did not know about this film or looked at pictures from this film in, as I call it, the picture book of movies. Uh there's this collection of books that dad has, and there's one that's called All Talking, All Singing, All Dancing, and it's musicals of the golden age, essentially, and it's just chock full of oh, there we go. Yes, that's a printout from it.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yeah, I mean it's a you know, it's a yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

So I've known this movie, I feel like, my whole life. I don't we probably saw it broadcast on TV, and then when we got our first VCR, then I know that it was one of the first films that we purchased to be able to own to watch it whenever we wanted, and then of course, knew all of the songs, and I remember watching the Shuffle Off to Buffalo sequence over and over again and just thinking, oh, this is so cool, but then singing the song, and that was the song dad and I would sing when we were washing the dishes.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

I love that. That was one of my favorite songs. I put that like a note with Shuffle Off to Buffalo.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Excellent. Excellent, excellent.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

So we'll hear a little bit more about that later on. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Yes. Okay, so in 1998, 42nd Street was selected for preservation in the United States National Film Registry by the Library of Congress as being culturally, historically, and aesthetically significant. So it was one of the early um inductees for preservation by the Library of Congress. And then here's some additional information about the film. It is actually the first time that Busby Berkeley, Harry Warren, and Al Dubin had worked for Warner Brothers. This is kind of Busby Berkeley, is a choreographer who became super famous on Broadway, and then they snatched him away, brought him to Hollywood to try to recreate his astounding Broadway productions for film. And it's you know a Busby Berkeley choreography when you see it. We will describe that in a little bit. Mervin LeRoy was actually the original director for this film, but he became ill, and that is when Lloyd Bacon was hired to take over for him. Now, Mervin LeRoy was dating Ginger Rogers at the time, and so he suggested that she take on the role of Anne. Now, it's funny that they were dating at the time because Ginger Rogers, I think in another year, is going to marry Lou Ayers, who is the lead from All Quiet on the Western Front and the Love Interest from our film two episodes ago, State Fair. Now, Mervyn LeRoy, we've heard his name before on the show because he was the director of I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang, which we covered this season with Kieran B from Best Picture Cast. And he is also going to go on to direct Gold Diggers of 1933, which is going to be our next episode, bonus episode. And as well, he is the producer of The Wizard of Oz. Okay. So does a bunch of musicals, just not this one. The shooting schedule for this film was only 28 days.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

You know, the movie, the the movie, the movie itself talks about how we're going to put on a stage on a stage production in in five weeks. This is a and the movie was actually made faster than the five weeks it took for them to rehearse. It's funny.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Yes, exactly. I was gonna say the the whole thing is chaotic in the film because they're like, okay, go, and go, and go, and go. That was probably just real.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

That was real. They were just doing it, filming, filming it live. Yep. This was named as one of the 10 best films of 1933 by Film Daily. As previously mentioned, there was a Broadway stage adaptation that debuted in 1980. It won two Tony Awards, including Best Musical. And then it was also followed by a successful Broadway revival in 2001. And guess what? The show continues to be performed worldwide to this day. It has appeared on three AFI rankings. That's the American Film Institute. In 2004, for AFI's 100 Years 100 songs, the song 42nd Street appeared as number 97. In 2005, for AFI's 100 Years 100 movie quotes, this quote clocked in at number 87. Sawyer, you're going at a youngster, but you've got to come back a star. And then in 2006, for AFI's greatest movie musicals, this comes in at Lucky Number 13. So was it a box office or a critical success? The answer is yes. 42nd Street was one of the most successful motion pictures of 1933, earning almost one and a half million dollars at the box office. Now, production costs were estimated to be between 340,000 to 440,000 with a gross profit around$2.3 million. So in the midst of the depression and all of that, just raked in the cash, which is why gold diggers of 1933, they made that one almost immediately after.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Sarah, let's let's talk a little bit about something that we mentioned very early on in our podcast when sound came in. Yes. They made uh the Hollywood Review of 1929. And there was something like within the next year, 75 musicals.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

I think it was actually the Broadway Melody. Yes, the Broadway Melody, which won Messenger.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

And if you've ever seen any of those they're sort of a historical document because they're they're full of dance sequences which are really quite vigorous, and and um and and some songs too that were that that weren't quite as good as we see here. Uh and then they sort of lost their novelty. I mean I'm I I'm gonna read for you uh uh uh a thing, quoting a book. What is the name of the book? You always want to know the name of the book.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

I do always I do always want to know. I want to document it.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

This is from a book called The History of the The History of the Movies by uh Edward F. Dolan Jr. Uh the revised edition. Just briefly, they they he they he talks in this movie, in this book about uh as as as follows. The public was fed up, was fed up to the teeth with uh with uh uh song and dance epics, one after another. Okay. Uh now we're talking 1930, 31, okay. With the depression hitting its depth, moviegoers carefully doling out their money a coin at a time, decided to spend no more of what little they had for entertainment on a tiresome, overexposed product. Okay. Grosses plunged, matters became so desperate by 1932 that some theater owners began making it a point to advertise that their current attractions were not musicals. The overspo overexposure itself was bad enough, but there was something more behind the fall from grace. In its first years, the musical has pulled in audience because sound was such a novelty. Now the novelty had worn off. And when when we were talking about the advent of sound and coming about how how the sound of bacon sizzling in uh in old Arizona, this thrilled audiences that that by that by by the time this movie was made, sound was sound was a uh uh uh not a novelty anymore. So somehow Warner Brothers decided that they would mount what was called the 42nd Street Special. And they started in New York on a train and they put Hollywood stars on this train advertising the 42nd Street Special to death. Now, there was no indication that this film was gonna do anything at all, except that it had two things. One, b Busby Berkeley is the choreography, but but also the music written by uh Harry Warren and Al Dur and Al Dubin, who worked for Warner Brothers, and uh uh and they uh uh sort of sort of pulled it off and it became it became so attractive to audiences for any number of reasons, uh, which we can talk about as uh as we go along. But that was the mindset of audiences at that time about musicals, okay. And uh and 42nd Street sort of set this pattern that we that was followed until the 50s, okay? Or or and um uh anyway, so I I I just wanted to interpose that and remind people about how how it was that uh it wasn't always the case that musicals were popular.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

No, and that was one of the discussions that we had with with Broadway Melody, right? That it was this big production because sound, and people and people who are fans of outstanding production best picture lists don't like it because the sound is terrible, and that's part of the problem with surviving prints and all of that type of stuff. And so it jettisoned musicals into the stratosphere, and then it fizzled out so quickly after that. And so 42nd Street kind of revives all of that, and our next film just happens to be the biggest movie of the year, which is a musical and it's almost identical to this film.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Okay, yeah, but I yeah. In the in in in in the Broadway review, we talked about how if you were at MGM, yeah, if you were an employee at MGM, a star at MGM, you were in that musical. Okay, are you so so that's true?

SPEAKER_02 27:20

And that's how we got that's how we got Joan Crawford, that's how we got Norma Shearer talking for the first time, that's how we got the Barrymores, and we got Don't forget Jack Benny. Jack Benny, that's correct. Who else did we see in that? Oh, we saw Laurel and Hardy, we got all kinds of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Anyway, it just was a thing of of the and that movie didn't even have a plot, okay. That's why it's called the Hollywood Review, okay. At least 42nd Street attempted to have a plot. It does have it does have a plot. Even if it was pretty thin.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

So, anyway, this movie was hugely popular, and I'd be curious to see anyone trying it out for the first time now, like you have, Clarissa, and kind of seeing what they think, and we'll ask you ultimately what you think at the end. I have a sneaking suspicion that I know what the response is just based on what I know that you like. All right, so dad, shall we get into some history?

SPEAKER_01 28:20

History. Yes, history. We're going back to 1933. Yeah. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

I know we're still in 1933. So we are going to cover history. So our last film that we covered was King Kong. King Kong was released on now. This actually infuriates me now that I've thought about it. March 2nd, 1933. I don't know why they didn't release it the next day on March 3rd. So it could have been 3333, but they didn't. I know.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

I know the scowls. Yeah, once in a century.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Yes. This movie, 42nd Street, was released on March 9th, 1933. So it's only seven days separating these two films. So we don't have a ton to cover. And we covered a lot of history in our last episode with King Kong because we covered quite a big chunk of time. So, a couple of days after the release of King Kong, this is on March 4th, 1933. This is when Franklin Delanore Roosevelt was inaugurated as 32nd president of the United States. He pledges to pull the US out of the depression. And this is when he has his famous speech, We Have Nothing to Fear but Fear itself. We covered quite a bit of this stuff in our previous episode, but the very next day, on March 5th, 1933, in the last multi-party election in Germany until the end of the Second World War, the National Socialist Party, led by Adolf Hitler, gained 43.9% of the votes and 288 out of the 647 seats available. So that is the Nazi Party. Okay. While the Social Democrats, led by Otto Wells, received 120. The outlawed Communist Party was led by Ernst Thalmann, was third with 81 seats, but none of the winning Communist Party candidates were allowed to take office. The next day, March 6, 1933, FDR declares a nationwide bank holiday to shut down the banking system, pass the Emergency Banking Act, and restore public confidence. This means they close all United States banks and freeze all financial transactions. So this is just a unilateral bank holiday. The holiday continues until March 13th. Okay. So all banks are shut down. Okay. That same day, actually, on the 6th, this is when Anton Sermac, who was the mayor of Chicago, actually dies. So we had talked about this previously on the show. This is 19 days after he was shot during an assassination attempt on Franklin Roosevelt. CERMAC's physician, Dr. Carl Carl A. Meyer, said later that CERMAC's primary cause of death was ulcerative colitis. He said the mayor would have recovered from the bullet wound had it not been for the complication of colitis. The autopsy disclosed the wound had healed. The other complications were not directly due to the bullet wound. Okay. You had something to say previously about Surmac. What was it?

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Well, I happen to have as a friend a lawyer in the Sonoma Valley whose name Anthony Surmac. And I think that he's a direct descendant of the mayor of Chicago there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Yes. Yeah. The next day. March.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

There's one one final comment. We probably mentioned it before. Sermac's words to Roosevelt when he was shot was I'm glad it was me and not you. Yeah. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

Well, and Roosevelt is the reason we have term limits on the presidency. He goes on to serve, what, twelve out of an intended 16 years as president, correct?

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Yes. There was a there there there was a scene in one of the road pictures where they're going through uh uh Aunt Somebody's effects and she has a button that says Coolidge for President. Okay. And Bob Hope says, You mean there was somebody before Roosevelt? Okay, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

So on March 7th, 1933, everybody's favorite real estate trading board game Monopoly is developed. Yeah, back in 1933.

unknown 33:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Taking taking the taking its name from the streets in Atlantic City. Yes. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:18

Cool. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

And then on March 8th, 1933, the newly appointed U.S. Enforcement Director for Prohibition announced that federal agents would no longer raid places where liquor was served. Yay! Yay! Concentrating instead on manufacturers and transporters and leaving it up to the individual states to handle a speakeasy.

unknown 33:44

Woo!

SPEAKER_01 33:46

I guess that means that none of them would be invading any Hollywood studios, which showed the consumption of liquor to no end in Yep.

unknown 33:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Yeah. We're still dealing with prohibition and the after effects of prohibition right now. And then on March 9th, 1933, two things happen. 42nd Street does premiere New York City, but on that same day, U.S. Congress is called into special session by Franklin Delano Roosevelt, beginning its 100 days. Ooh. So for our best-selling novel and the New York Times bestseller list. The last one was on January 30th, 1933. It is the same as our last episode with Andrew and King Kong. There is no new list until April of this year. So guess what? No best seller book listed. Our number one song on this date. Guess what? It's only seven days later, and it is still Bing Crosby's recording of You're Getting to Be a Habit With Me, which is from 42nd Street, and it did top the charts for four straight weeks. It's a great recording. It's super fun. We did it on our last episode. So I thought, why don't we do a different song? But I'm gonna give a little caveat for that. The actual next top song is the song 42nd Street from 42nd Street, but not from the movie. It is a recording by Don Bester, and it tops the charts for like three weeks, and it doesn't, but it doesn't come around until the beginning of April, which is like a month away from where we are right now in time. It's not a very good recording. I don't like it very much. So we're gonna skip it. And by the time we get to our next film, it's gonna be another song entirely. So I thought, why don't we just do a song from the movie that we're doing 42nd Street, but not actually the song 42nd Street from 42nd Street? Let's instead do the best song from the show that also isn't You're Getting to Be a Habit with Me. Let's do Shuffle Off to Buffalo.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

Yes. I knew it.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Okay, so Shuffle Off to Buffalo is a musical number in this film, 42nd Street, and it is memorable for not only the song and the lyrics, but what is being done on stage, and we can discuss it in detail when we get to it in the film. But right now we're just gonna listen to it and share our reactions with our audience of listening to it and what do we think of just the song by itself rather than just the whole production. Okay? So we are going to get to that right now. Okay, so what do we think of that song, y'all?

SPEAKER_03 37:21

You know, it's just so stinking fun. Uh even just listening to it is a blast, but I think also just there is so much that is added to it with the visuals of them with this train. This incredible set for a musical. Yes. We talk about that. That is amazing. Um I I love the timing of all of the different things happening in the scene, and when we're talking about sound and kind of like the intentionality of recording specific things, the ripping of the ticket and the the scrubbing of the shoes, like the polishing of them. It's it just works so beautifully with the song.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

Yes. Agreed. Dad, you were giggling through the whole thing. Tell us.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

I I I will what I find charming is uh is the sentiment of the of the song, which really makes this a pre-code film. Okay. I I I I I I just find it's just a little bit naughty. And um It's a lot naughty. What are you talking about? And I find that kind of kind of interesting. If you talk to somebody in the modern age and you tell them that the beginning to a song says, I'll go home and pack my panties, you go home and get your scanties. They're saying, What? They didn't do that in those days. And and and so so and and I also visually, vi visually, I love the beginning of the steps that they make when they start singing the song. It it's really a it it it it it it doesn't show off uh Ruby Keeter's voice, which is kind of thin, um, but I I think that it is just a uh it's just fun. You know, I I I it's a it's a and and and and the extra added lyrics to the whole business of you know, matrimony is baloney and and and and all that kind of stuff. Shows that there's something underneath that, and I see think we see a little bit more of it as uh the gold digger movies go along with regard to the kind of the oh what should I say, the underside of show business. Um uh and and so so so there's there's there's kind of all of that going on. I I I I I love that. I I it's one of my favorite things in in movies.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Yes, and again, we'll talk about this actual sequence once we get to it when we're talking about the plot, which is coming up very soon. But the song is so fun, and I wanted to make sure that our audience got to have a little snippet of it as well. I'm probably I have to decide which portion of the song that I'm going to share to be heard for 30 seconds, and it maybe it's the matrimony one, maybe it's just the beginning with the packing of the panties and scanties. It's it's super fun, the rhymes are silly, and it the song has a whole plot line in it about these people getting married and going on their honeymoon, and it's just yeah, it's very charming.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

I think too, Sarah, when we were talking that you were pointing out that in uh in one of our early movies, one of the first movies, The Crowd, which was a silent film, but where did they go on their honeymoon? To Niagara.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

To Niagara, in a sleeper. Which is essentially this is the musical version of that interlude. And again, I let's let's remember that when we talk about this sequence in the plot, because there are some very specific visuals that tie into the crowd as well, which I think has to have some sort of influence on this. Yes, yes, uh, for sure. Okay, so let's get into some day of headlines, shall we?

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Here's what's in the news.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Not gonna do a ton, but pretty much in both the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times, the big headlines are all about the bank holiday and everything being shut down in order to give some relief to everybody. And so it's just wall-to-wall stuff about pausing banks and people being concerned. What does that actually mean? Lots of reassurances about how this bank holiday, which goes on for more than one day, how that's gonna play out for the American public. So I thought I'd focus on some smaller articles rather than the nuances of the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Before you leave that, though, Sarah, I think that people ought to know that this was one of the times when uh Roosevelt did his first fireside chat. Okay, explaining to people what the bank holiday was all about. Yes. Your money is better in a bank than it is under your mattress. This is why we're doing this. And people bought into that. It's just so amazing to me the ability to communicate with the public in a way on a kind of a difficult topic that they understood and and and accepted it. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

And so that actual first fireside chat, I think, is a couple days after the release of this film, which is why it's not as part of my timeline. I already have it earmarked, so we will be mentioning it in our next episode specifically. And so we will revisit that because people were very confused about how this holiday holiday was going to be coming about because they thought it was going to be just for a day. And so he does it on the sixth. Now, this movie is released on the ninth, so it's just a few days later, and people are like, why is it still going on? It ultimately goes on for almost uh over a week, okay, or almost two weeks. And so people are concerned. And so one of the little articles that I wanted to mention is from the New York Times. It's just two paragraphs, which really results in four sentences. And the title is Checks Given During Holiday Are Valid, lawyers hold. The validity of bank checks issued and dated on any weekday during the present bank holiday is unquestioned. It was said last night by lawyers accustomed to deal with such questions. This is due to the fact that the period is not one of legal holidays, which would affect the checks, but is merely a moratorium during which the banks are directed neither to pay out nor receive money. Any business corporation, firm, or individual is justified in cashing checks for that reason. The fact that such checks are circulating freely throughout the city is sufficient proof that no doubt as to their validity is. Exists, it was said. So people are getting concerned, which is why Roosevelt does do his first fireside chat. I think in just a couple of days, or maybe even the next day. Also in the New York Times, by British is now doubted by one of its originators. So this is in London. By British, the campaign that was expected to bring about a revival of British manufacturing by turning purchasers away from foreign goods to home products, is now doubted by one of its most powerful advocates. This is not related to anything that is going on in our world today, in 2025. Sir Edward Crow, controller of the Department of Overseas Trade, said in an address today: I think probably the buy British campaign has gone far enough. We want to buy American goods, and we want America to buy British goods. His remarks were made to a gathering of American and British businessmen. Sir Edward confessed he had been an originator of the movement he would now modify. It was set on foot by the Empire Marketing Board, of which he is a member. No tariffs. I mean, what? Okay, moving on. Over in Clarissa's face. Over in. We don't have we don't have a video podcast, but I have to describe what she's saying. Over in the Los Angeles Times, we have a couple of things. First, King George is nearing recovery from cold. In London, it was stated at Buckingham Palace today that King George had recovered almost completely from a cold, which he contracted last weekend. Front page article. One sentence, but it's also at the bottom of the page. Bless our hearts. We also have Will Rogers remarks. Now I have to make sure that we get in as many Will Rogers remarks because he is not long for this earth. Will Rogers remarks, Beverly Hills to the editor of The Times. It's surprising how little money we can get along on. Let the banks never open. Let Scrip never come. Just everybody keep on trusting everybody else. Why? It's such a novelty to find that somebody will trust you that it's changed all our whole feeling toward human nature. Why? Never was our country so united. Never was a country so tickled with their poverty. For three years, we have had nothing but America is fundamentally sound. It should have been America is fundamentally cuckoo. The worse off we get, the louder we laugh, which is a great thing. And every American international banker ought to have printed on his office door, alive today, today, by the grace of a nation that has a sense of humor. Yours, Will Rogers.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

That's one of the good columns. Wow, I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

So tickled, I think, is what relates to that to me. There's the word tickled in our poverty, was it? Yeah. Yeah. What did he actually say?

SPEAKER_02 47:22

Like that word tickled, just why never was our country so united. Never was a country so tickled with their poverty. Yes, tickled with their poverty. So tickled. And then one last final thought. Now, the Los Angeles Times on the front page of every single edition has a little box at the bottom, and it always says remember this. And it's some sort of pithy saying. And they're great. Most of the time I don't mention them, but this time I just felt compelled. And so here is what they are choosing wisdom to depart to everyone today. Most of our failures can be traced to a belief that other people are not quite as smart as we are. And I'm going to leave you with that.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

So what are we going to do now, Sarah?

SPEAKER_02 48:11

Shall we get into this movie, Dad?

SPEAKER_01 48:15

As long as Clarissa explains the plot, yes. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

So coming up with a plot summary, of course, is a little difficult because there is so much going on in this movie. When you watch the movie, it makes sense to you. Yes. But describing everything, like encapsulating everything that happens in this movie, is a challenge. So I have two written summaries and one online summary. And then we're just going to chat hot details. Okay. Yeah. So I have a one-sentence that's actually a run-on long sentence. Great. Summary, but just a fun. I was very inspired by our spots. Yes. Yes. So fun. So banking on one last show, searching for a starring role, refusing discomfort to be advantageous, a love triangle, and a musical set that outstands the stage. Wow. That's my run-on one sentence. Love it. That's great. That definitely describes the plot. Yes. I was like, how many things can I put in this sentence? So many things. If I have a lot of commas, everything. So here we are. All right. Now here is my very simple self-written summary. When a super famous Broadway director falls on hard times with his finances, he puts on an ambitious musical as a final production before his retirement send-off, Sayanara. His lead actress Dorothy is torn between two loves, while aspiring young actress Peggy hopes for a big break. At the tail end of rehearsals, his lead star Dorothy breaks her ankle and Peggy steps in. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

Just in the overview of that summary that you that you wrote, we are early on in the history of movie musicals. And so this plot of someone breaks something and the little ingenue has to come in. This isn't the first time that we've seen this because this happens in the Broadway melody as well. But we are still in the beginning of this being a trope, essentially, that somebody gets taken out and the cute young thing has to step in. Is it gonna work? I don't know if I can do it.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Well, that's right. The other part is that there's always a problem in mounting the musical. Yes. Okay. John Jones and Barry are doing a show, okay, but they can only do the show because they have some angel who is who wants uh his his paramour to star in the show. And there's a scene where uh he suggests this is Guy Kibbe, is what is his name? Abner Dylan.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Practically propositioning. Practically he does. Uh yeah. Oh okay, very good. Uh saying, you know, I'll be good to you if you'll be good to me. It's a uh uh it's a um and so uh like you say, the director Julian Marsh is desperate to make it a hit because he has lost all his money in the stock market crash.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

Yeah. So one of the things is so we do open with this statement that they are they need to put on this new show, and Julian Marsh, who is Warner Baxter, our second best uh actor winner. The first was our Nazi friend, what's his name? I can't think of it.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Emil Jennings.

SPEAKER_02 52:05

Right. Okay, so he and he's I love Warner Baxter in this role. And it's so funny because I when we watched In Old Arizona, I hadn't put it in my head that it's the same guy because they're so such disparate characters. So he's saying, I gotta make this money. He loot he had lost all his money in the stock market crash and he needs to make money back. And he says, I'm only doing this show for the money. Now, I don't, to me, I don't think putting on a Broadway show and being a director is like where the like get that's guaranteed money. I've seen producers. Um right. So he's saying, I'm in it for the money. He also at the same time gets a phone call that says, you're gonna die if you stress yourself out. Okay. And he's and he's ignoring these health warnings from his doctor. Don't do anything stressful because your heart's gonna explode. And so what does he do? He does something super stressful because he has to make money on this show.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

So right away we have this setup where he needs to remain calm and not exert himself.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

And so what's yeah, so what's so what's the next scene, Sarah? We have him in auditions. The most the most stressful thing that they do. And and that's where we get introduced to some of the characters. Uh uh the uh uh Una Merkel and and Ginger Rogers, who goes by the time the by the title Anytime Any.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 53:45

Okay. And she carries a dog and fakes an English accent and and Monocle.

SPEAKER_03 53:50

She has a monicable.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Yeah, a monocle. That's right. And and uh uh and there's something there's a funny, funny line when one of the other uh people auditioning says something and the which she takes offense at and says uh it must have been tough, tough on your mother not having any children.

unknown 54:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

The lines are super quippy. Yes. So quippy. Yes. And we have the meet cute between Ruby Keeler as Peggy and um Dick Powell as what is his Billy Lawler. Billy Lawler. She comes in as the cute young thing, and the girls are being mean to her, and they tell her to go into this room to see the director, and she goes into the room, and oops, she stumbles in on Billy Lawler changing. Oh no. And it's very, it's very scandalous. Oh God! And she runs out and he's like, Oh no, no, I'll help you. Because of course, they're they see each other and they're instantly smitten, right? And of course, he's gonna help her out. Now it seems like Ginger Rogers and Una Merkel, their characters are gonna be mean to Peggy, but they actually are really kind to her and take her under their wing, and they are almost instantaneously all best friends, okay? And this is where we also see the dance director, Andy Lee, played by Georgie Stone. And this is I actually really like him in this role. You know why? Because he's a love interest in this movie, and we haven't seen that yet. He's played a doofus in pretty much every other film that we have seen him in, and here he is Una Merkel is just absolutely taken with him. He doesn't seem to be quite as interested in her, and I actually I think it's super cute.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

And at the audition, he he which is one of the things that happens in the movie. He has all the girls lift their skirts.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

So we can see their legs, and they're picked based on the quality of their legs, and and and he's convinced with by Ginger Rogers to take in Peggy Sorry. I I'm sorry, yes, yes, you you you you're right.

SPEAKER_02 56:10

Yes. So we learn right away that your looks are gonna get you further than your talent, and but we also see that with Abner Dillon, the Guy Kibby character, saying to Dorothy Brock, played by B.B. Daniels, and he does actually, as Dad said, says to her, I'll be nice to you if you are nice to me. This is a phrase that we had heard, I believe, in Broadway Melody as well. And Guy Kibby is not an attractive man. He I remember being so grossed out by him as a child, and he's still pretty gross. He plays better characters in other movies that we are gonna see him in, but this one he plays uh he's an idiot, but he's a slime ball. He doesn't realize he's being a slime ball, like, but he yeah, so he is ultimately it's he's taken in by Dorothy Brock's looks and promises her that she's gonna have this amazing contract because she's going to be nice to him. And she, you can see her kind of swallow on screen and recognizes what the proposition is. And the proposition is you're gonna have sex with me so that I can put you in this production. And she tries to put him off for as long as possible. Uh it's kind of gross, but it is what it is, and that's I think probably a pretty accurate portrayal. It's the same thing that we had seen in Broadway Melody as well. So, um Dorothy is that's the lead. Okay, she is still in love with her former partner, Pat Denning, and he is out of work. And Julian Marsh, the director, finds out that they're still in a relationship and that she's essentially two-timing or cheating on Abner, the money guy, and he hires some of his friends to intimidate him, right? And then Dorothy and Pat, even though they are desperately in love, agree not to see each other. And Pat goes off to Philadelphia to have a job. And you can tell they do actually really love each other, but she's like, I gotta make money, and he's like, I can't get in the way. And he understands that she's essentially selling herself for this role. There's no pretending about it and that they shouldn't be hiding out. And so then it's just sequence after sequence of everybody practicing and rehearsing.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

Don't forget, Sarah, how Julian Marsh gives them all a pep talk with the quote, we're going to have a show.

unknown 58:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

We rehearse for five weeks of the most difficult rehearsals you will ever do. Yeah. Okay. And then they begin, and a lot of the movie is backstage doing the pumping and grinding and dance stepping and all of that kind of thing, which again is becomes stock footage in in musicals. I I I was intrigued by one of the things that you see early on is they rehearse a song called It Must Be June. Now, that is one of the most insipid things. It sort of it rather reminded me of uh uh the the sequence in funny in the movie Funny Lady where they do the calendar stuff. The April Bride is typified by okay.

SPEAKER_02 59:49

So you mean funny girl?

SPEAKER_01 59:51

Funny girl, yeah. Funny, fun, funny, funny, funny girl. I mean, they have you know soon, June, moon, spoon, croon, everything. And finally Marsh says, no, no, no, and he kicks it out of of and so it's done purposely. Okay, to so this is a stupid thing that and so we don't do everything, and they say, no, we we we recognize that this is drivel.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

Yeah, and so things are just so chaotic. Clarissa, you've done musical theater. What was it like for you seeing these sort these practice sequences where they are just the girl the girls are falling over, they're exhausted, play faster, everybody shut up, and then people are shouting shut up over and over and over again. What was that? What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:44

Yes. Oh my word. You know, there were so many memories. I mean, I only did musical theater until I was about 20.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

But what did you do? What what what what what what what what kind of stuff did you do?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:57

Yeah, honestly, so I mostly did musical theater. We did a lot of really big productions. And my my last show in a leading role, I was the narrator in Joseph and the Amazing Technical Dreamcoat, alongside uh two other women. And this that feeling was was pretty prevalent for us in that show, um, because the narrators are in literally every single scene and every single song, except for I think two. And there was one that we cut us out of so we could have a break. Um, but it was so hard to move around the stage and be running, and all the rehearsals were so contingent on us and my friend who played Joseph. And there, I mean, we actually did take a tumble backstage. We all fell off like like dominoes off of a three-foot flat, and it was it was super hard. I mean, we were like, okay, now we're sore and bruised and have scuffs, and we're not gonna make our queue, but this is a performance, so we've gotta run. Like, so the chaos and the emotional challenge of just that was really difficult. Um, we had a uh we did Mary Poppins and my friend who played Bert got sick the day of our opening night, like just incredibly sick. And he, I mean, when we do step in time, he's flipping and he's flying, like we have a flying system for that musical number, and he's he was so sick. Um, so we had another friend step in and he had he had four hours on the money to memorize everything and every dance number, and then miraculously our Bert came and did the performance and threw up backstage in between numbers, but he did it. Oh good lord. I know it was awful. And I mean, 17 years old, 16 years old. I'm like, how are you doing this? I don't understand. But I'm I'm watching this and I'm like the broken ankle, and I'm watching her prep, and I'm so tired. And I'm like, I just remember my friend Ira being like, I'm so exhausted, I don't know if I can do it. We're like, you have to, you have to do it. The show relies on it. And it was, I mean, I think especially for really overstimulated emotional high schoolers, that was a lot. But yeah, yeah, but this is a this is an overwhelming feeling, and um, and things go wrong. And trying to do performance when you are so tired, and honestly, so much to the ensemble. I'm watching these girls kick, like doing these kicking lines and these dances just one right after the other, and especially reading the 28 days, I'm like, they had to be so tired. They had to be so tired, so tired because they were immaculate. These numbers, these dances were just stunning in this film. And so I'm like thinking about all that rehearsal time. Wow, just hats off to them for this 28-day time, but also the plot line was yeah, it's a lot of stress.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

There was a that this was a time too before the Screen Actors Guild became popular and where you were you were at the studio for as long as they said, and you didn't go home, and it was a yeah. Oh well, that's great that you have that that that that personal experience of that. I I think that's terrific, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

So side note, Clarissa, the last production that you did was Joseph, you said.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:36

In high school. My last mu yeah, my last musical performance. I music directed Xanadu, so I didn't perform in it, but I directed as musical director, and then my last performance was Little Women, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:49

Which we're also covering this season.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

By the way, yes, indeed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

Okay. So yeah, I was interested to get your take on that and if that felt like a real thing. As somebody who's not a performer in that capacity, I cannot imagine. I'm certainly familiar with singing things over and over again and playing an instrument over and over, but I cannot imagine the physical exhaustion that goes into an actual full musical production that seems insane. So one of the things that does actually happen to Peggy is as part of the chorus, she is dancing and she passes out during rehearsals, and she is kind of carried off to the side, and she encounters Pat Denning, who takes a liking to her, and he's already kind of been kicked to the curb by Dorothy, and there's this interlude between Pat and Peggy where he takes her back to his apartment and they're just going out to dinner or whatever, and it seems very innocent, but then you see him sort of leaning in. Super close, and like he's gonna kiss her, or whatever. They get stormed in on by his like apartment lady or whatever, or no, they're at Peggy's apartment or something like that, and they get kicked out because they're not married and they're alone in a room together, and the and and the and the landlady summarily evicts her, something that you wouldn't see.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:22

And Al, and while she's pronouncing how on to these people she is, and she's been doing this for 19 years in the background, yes, is a guy sneaking out of somebody's room. Yes. I thought that that that was an interesting touch.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

Uh so and this is essentially the plot of Bad Girl, where the two stars are alone together, and they shouldn't be alone together, and and it throws everything into chaos. And so Peggy and Pat end up at a hotel room together. And so he looks like he's gonna make moves on her. He gets her clothes changed and he's kind of eyeballing her, and she kind of like passes out again because she's so tired. And he you can see, at least on his face, you realize that he's not gonna do anything, but then he scoops her up and she thinks that it's an advance, and he's taking her into the bedroom and puts her on the bed, and he's like, No, just go to go to sleep, and everything. Oh, we've avoided a scandal. Yes. So Peggy and Pat are friends essentially. The night before the show's opening in Philadelphia, they find out in Philadelphia, which becomes a big deal to everybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:38

Why not Atlantic City? How come we're going to Philadelphia? Okay. Who knows? I thought it was well, no, I think I think it was explained that they couldn't get uh a a place in in Atlantic City.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

No, they do it, they do explain it, right? But people are like, why aren't we doing it, right? This seems ridiculous, but also that's where Pat is.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

And there's there's a big I just think that's a little historical fact. Yes, interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

Yes. And so Dorothy is kind of throwing a fit at this party, and I think we're supposed to be scandalized by the party that people are drinking and they're all carousing together. And Peggy is there, and she and Pat know each other, and so they're being friendly with each other. Nothing is going on, but Dorothy sees it, she throws a fit and freaks out at the two of them, and in the little kerfuffle that goes on, she falls and somehow breaks her ankle. I don't understand how she actually breaks her ankle, but I think she may have pulled a Sarah Shea because I have literally broken my ankle standing on my own two feet.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:47

Yeah, I was gonna say you you must understand that part.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:50

No, I I I personally do.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

I don't know if most people have Clarissa with the personal experience of being exhausted doing a show, and Sarah with the personal experience of breaking her ankle. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:02

I have broken both my ankles and a kneecap through shenanigans. Okay. At least I didn't fall off a pedestal like in Broadway Melody.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:14

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:16

So Abner has already found out that Dorothy's a bad person. We're supposed to assume at this point that Dorothy is a bad person. She doesn't like Peggy. Abner is taken up with Annie, who is um Ginger Rogers. And Ginger Rogers says to him, Oh, Abner, I love you so much, Sugar Daddy, but you definitely shouldn't have me star in this show. She's very selfless in this moment. You should put in Peggy. She's amazing, and you know that I'm telling the truth because why would I ever put someone else above myself? But you should absolutely put in Peggy and fine, you've got four hours, and Mr. Julian Marsh is frantic. He is screaming, he is yelling, his hair is flopping, very similar to the Yancy Cravat in Cimarron, because he's just so impassioned with everything that is going on. And it is four hours of her dancing over not four hours in the like real time in the film, but she is dancing and she's crying and everything is terrible. And he's just like, You got you, yeah, you gotta put on the show, which pull it together. Yes, Clarissa has played the role of Julian Marsh uh as well. Gotta do it, gotta do it. Yeah, okay. So then Billy, Dick Powell. So let's get through we'll just get through the whole plot, and then I want to talk about shuffle off to Buffalo in particular. Billy tells Peggy that he loves her, and they kiss, and Dorothy shows up, and you think she's gonna freak out, but she's like, No, you're gonna be so great. I love Pat. We're running off together and we're gonna get married. She's basically leaving show business to be with this guy, and the show gets put on, and everybody loves it. And Peggy is a star, she pulls everything off flawlessly. It's like she's been the lead the whole time. She's magic and everybody's leaving the theater. Oh, it's so great. And director Julian Marsh is standing in the shadows, and he hears all of these comments that Peggy is amazing, but he doesn't deserve any credit for how great the show was because Peggy did it all herself. Everything's wonderful role credits. So about the musical numbers. So there are several musical numbers. Um, so let's see, what are they? There's You're Getting to Be a Habit With Me, which is sung by BB Daniels, who plays Dorothy Brock, but you also hear that instrumental music over the film over and over and over again. Okay. It must be June is another one of them. We have Young and Healthy, sung by Dick Powell, which is actually a cute little number as well. Um we have the song 42nd Street, um, which is interesting and has like a Broadway street set, which is kind of fun. And then you have Shuffle Off to Buffalo. Now, Shuffle Off to Buffalo, we've kind of alluded to it. It takes place on this train. So the plot of the song is that this couple is getting married and they are going on their honeymoon to Niagara Falls. We're heading to Niagara in a sleeper. And the set is they're on this train, but the train like opens up, and so you see the inside of this sleeper car, and it seems almost to be a fully functioning sleeper car on the inside on stage, which is super fun to see. And so the whole production is them dancing on the inside of half a train. So they kind of do a cutaway, so you see see half the train. And Clarissa, why don't you describe some more about what we see in that sequence?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:31

So we see, and one of the things I really want to mention too is like we see people kind of in like table settings, or I guess they're not tables, but just like right next to each other. The train car is like pretty serious typically when it opens up. Um, and as this couple is going down the kind of like train aisle to find their seat, they're giving a little ha ha ha and all these fun things. Uh, you have people in the sleeper part of the train in the curtains popping out. Uh, we have somebody going around and polishing shoes that have been left out of the little curtain sleeper sections. Uh, and we have this just married couple kind of trying to find a spot to be situated and relaxed and married, and it's it's such a fun sequence.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:16

It really is. And so this is what dad had alluded to before because there is this extended sequence of the silent film The Crowd, which was one of my favorite films from our first season, and they are on this sleeper, and part of what goes on is it's their wedding night, and so they have to figure out how they are going to be intimate for the very first time on a train, which is not as private as you would think. Now, sleeper cars are much different now, but in the olden days, it's just curtains across their beds, essentially. And so in the crowd, you have the couple, they are separate, and they are getting ready individually, and they're kind of like nervous about going to bed with their spouse for the first time. And so we have some of those same illusions that are going on in the sequence while they're doing all of this singing and dancing and getting ready. And so it's basically the same exact sort of scenario. But this is why Niagara Falls was one of the most popular honeymoon destinations, because for most people, it meant that they also got to go on a train ride in order to get there and have some extra romance.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:33

And the train moves slow. And the train goes slow.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:40

Because you're gonna shuffle off to Buffalo, right? Yes, slow train. You can make some sweet, sweet love. So there's like nothing left to the imagination, essentially, in terms of the whole entire setup, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:53

What is left to the imagination, however, is the sequence where they actually perform on stage uh in a rehearsal. You're getting to be a habit with me.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:02

Where where there's this whole thing about where these four guys are on stage and she's singing this, and they have and they have a sequence of of uh uh uh attachments and hugging and uh and kissing and all that. And after all of the song, what appears on stage is a guy dressed as Mahatma Gandhi and she chooses him. Yeah. Okay. That too is a is a is is is a fun thing. Getting you're getting to be habit with me is a good song. I it is make no bones about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:33

It is so Clarissa, too. I wanted to ask you about in the musical sequences where we see kind of like the chorus doing dances and the choreography that is specifically Busby Berkeley, how would you describe Busby Berkeley choreography for a chorus?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:51

Wow. Um It is very contingent on being synchronized. I loved uh and it also doesn't feel too specific to a stage, which is one thing I actually really enjoyed as someone who is watching this movie. I don't think audiences back in the day really would have been like, how would that look as a Broadway stage production? Because this kick line during Young and Healthy, uh, I'm pretty sure is that the one where they lay down in circles? Yes. Okay, I was like, I'm pretty sure that's the one I notated for the circles, but the view that we have is kind of a bird's eye view down on these girls spinning in opposite circles and kicking. And of course, that that would still look very entertaining to an audience perspective, but it's clearly built for us as audience members of a movie seeing this kick lane sequence. Um, but it is very ambitious and also I I would even use the word detailed because there are little I like one thing I really noticed and enjoyed is there are a lot of little movements that are subtle that just all add up to it being this beautiful uh show. It's just a beautiful show where you're watching and it's it's ultimate entertainment, um, but everything as we're watching it go, that he like uses little things in the choreography to make that synchronization just that much more detailed. So I just was so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:28

Yeah, and the way that I would typically describe it is it looks like so, yes, it's this aerial view. So you see you're seeing from the top down, which audiences in a Broadway production, at least if you're in the front row, you're not seeing that stuff. You might see it if you're up in the stratosphere. But yeah, it looks like kaleidoscope images, okay, where they're arranging their bodies in ways to make different shapes and move and flow around, and it's sort of surreal in terms of the way that it is being put on. So it's very movement-oriented, but not movement of individuals. They are working together as a cohesive unit to make these flowy, flowery sort of blossoming and closing and opening and swaying and all of that type of stuff, which is very Busby Berkeley. And I uh he was a really famous Broadway choreographer, and it does make me wonder what was he doing on Broadway in order to did he do those same sort of things? Did they have mirrors on? I don't know. I've tried to I've tried to look up this information and I can't figure it out. But he his choreography was so good for film because they could show all of these details and show these different angles, and we're gonna see more of it in our next film in um Gold Diggers of 1933, which are even, I think, more over the top, and the costumes are even smaller, we shall say.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:08

Nice, almost non-existent, um, worth it for the near nudity, I would say. And so there's just so much going on in the production numbers that they are doing for this fake show, Pretty Lady. And we get to see, we see all of these rehearsal sequences, but then we get to see the full production of each of these numbers shown in the film almost as if we are watching the actual show Pretty Pretty Lady.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:40

Except that it makes one wonder what the plot of Pretty Lady was, because there ain't nothing that tells you what's going on except the musical sequences. And then of course it ends with the song 42nd Street, where I think the choreography is a little bit different than what you're talking about. Uh more more on on stage kind of thing, where they're where they're doing some uh uh and we can talk about uh 42nd Street uh individually too. Uh you know, Sarah, I I uh I'm thinking about 42nd Street and the role that it plays in the movie Midnight Cowboy.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:20

Oh, right. Yes, yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:22

That 42nd Street is this d dive, this place that you simply do not go to because it is it is uh pernicious. And um uh and and so I think that this lends itself a little tiny bit to that idea that that uh where the where the gangsters meet the elite, you know uh uh and and uh uh and and and and the whole business of uh uh uh little nifties from the 50s, okay, who are innocent and sweet, sexy ladies from the eighties who are indiscreet. And th those they confused me. I didn't know what they were talking about, okay. And and so is it we're talking about the 1850s and then 19 and then 1880s, or what are they talking about? Well, it's a little bit of research looked at that that people said, no, what they're talking about is the streets in New York.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:19

The street numbers.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:20

Yeah. Below the 50s. And then you had the really upper class in the 80s who would come to visit 42nd Street.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:39

To slump.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:41

Yeah, or or to have them, you know, with the pr the prostitutes and the and the whole there's a whole thing that that that some people talk about with regard to the gay aspect of uh of the word sporty, you know. Gaudy, naughty, body, gaudy, sporty, 42nd Street, which which is has some reference to the gay lifestyle that was there. So the so that so that so that the uh uh uh exposure of that to the public w was a little bit veiled, but nevertheless, uh I think um uh speaks speaks to the to the uh whole business of this is where the action was, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:25

Um it's more the CD underbelly than all of the gorgeous uh numbers like young and healthy and shuffle off to Buffalo. You see like the costumes that they have going on in the 42nd Street number are a little bit more suggestive. Again, they have this New York street set. You have this people being it getting in brawls, people being shot, falling off of buildings, yes, all kinds of merely assaulted.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:55

Yeah. Yeah. You know, that makes a lot of sense talking about the street numbers and kind of the context there. Because I'm piecing it back together and I'm like, wow, that makes so much sense to me. I I want to go and re-watch this number with that in mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:09

Yeah, and and uh uh uh I and I think that uh uh uh somebody like Berkeley who buzz Busby Berkeley who was came out of Broadway and and and and and and those things would recognize that as being the meanings and and and would incorporate that into what what the dance sequences and the and and the uh uh and the lyrics were. So anyway, I just point that out.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:40

Yeah. Excellent. So have we do you think we've covered what goes on in this movie sufficiently?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:49

Let me let me have it just have a couple of comments. You know, uh uh we have camera work and double exposures, okay, which which which were i i i i i i interesting. You have Ned Sparks, who I don't know that he ever played a role other than the one that he plays in this movie and every other movie he was in, with a cigar in his mouth that's never lit.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:15

He's never actually it's just he was Clarissa, he was famous for saying things like, I go everywhere, I do everything, and I never have any fun. Okay. Uh uh and and so and and that uh uh and so he's we we haven't mentioned him, but he's part of the part of the production team that that uh uh we'll mention him again next week or next episode and then the episode after that.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:42

Where's because he's in Lady for a day, which is the Frank Capra movie that Frank Capra thinks he's gonna win all of the awards for and doesn't win all the awards for, which then compels him to make It Happen One Night, which is, as we know, an amazing what did critics think of this movie? Yeah, so our resident critic over at the New York Times, Mordant Hall. Again, his time is coming to a close very soon as well. We're gonna see the end of him, I think, next season when he retires. So this review is from the very next day, March 10th, 1993. 1993? No, 1933. Okay, so this is what Morton Hall has to say about 42nd Street. The liveliest and one of the most tuneful screen musical comedies that has come out of Hollywood was presented last night by the Warner Brothers at The Strand. It is known as 42nd Street, the story being an adaptation of Bradford Ropes' novel of the same name, and the songs having been contributed by um Al, is it Dubin? Yeah, Al Dubin and Harry Warren. Although it has it has its artfully serious moments, it is for the most part a merry affair, and in it, Ruby Keeler, Mrs. Al Jolson, makes her motion picture debut. Her ingratiating personality, coupled with her dances and songs, adds to the zest of this offering. It is a film which reveals the forward strides made in this particular medium since the first screen musical features came to Broadway. Although it has its boisterous moments, 42nd Street is invariably entertaining. Part of the action is backstage training for a music show titled Pretty Lady, and part is the first performance of the stage production with Miss Keeler as Peggy Sawyer. Peggy substitutes with marked success for the original star, Dorothy Brock, who on the previous night fractured her ankle. This feature begins cleverly and ends without the usual hugging and kissing scene for which one can be thankful. Warner Baxter delivers one of the outstanding portrayals. Of his screen career as Julian Marsh, the stage director of Pretty Lady. Mr. Baxter actually gives the impression of a very tired man, exhausted with rehearsals and dissatisfaction with the dancers and others in the show. Bibi Daniels appears as Dorothy Brock, in which role she is heard singing from time to time during the preparations of the musical comedy. Una Merkel impersonates a saucy chorus girl who is always ready for a smart retort for any impertinent young man. The show within the story is imaginatively staged with clever groupings of dancers and fine photography. In the course of this offering, one bears such catchy musical compositions as You're Getting to Be a Habit With Me, I'm Young and Healthy, Shuffle Off to Buffalo and 42nd Street. One of the best of these pieces of music is Shuffle Off to Buffalo, the action during the singing of it occurring on a train bound for Niagara Falls. It is an excellent example of stagecraft. The wise cracks are delivered with the necessary flair, and the throng that packed the theater last night laughed heartily over the misfortunes of Abner Dillon, Guy Kibbe, and the pert comments of various persons. Mr. Dillon is a man of means who has put some$70,000 into the show, chiefly because he is most of the time greatly interested in Dorothy Brock. This young woman happens to be infatuated with Pat Denning, played by George Brent, and after more wine than is good for her, she suffers some stinging truths. And it is during this sequence that she falls and fractures her ankle. Imagine Marsh's feelings when, after being anxious over the outcome of the show and really only sure of Miss Brock's capabilities, he hears that she has suffered the accident. Then Peggy is elected to fill the principal role, and although she does not seem very promising at first, she scores a hit when the time comes. And Marsh, at the stage entrance of the theater, hears his name mentioned as one of those who quote gets all the breaks. There was a time when spectators were satiated with backstage stuff, but here it is pictured brightly and with a degree of authenticity that makes it diverting. Mordant Hall. He just, his vocabulary sometimes. There are the familiar types who appear during rehearsals, and also the assistant stage manager, the sleepy pianist, the dance director, and so forth. Mr. Kibby is thoroughly believable as the old soak with more dollars than he ought to be and ought to be trusted with. As a cigar chewing theatrical expert. In fact, all those in the cast do very well. Yeah, and that is it. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:40

Well, okay. All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:42

Yes. So let's do our Syscal and Ebert. Clarissa, do you give this movie a thumbs up or a thumbs down?

SPEAKER_03 1:30:51

I give it a thumbs up. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. Yes. I of course, like I have little things and we'll get into like personal responses and reactions. But overall, it was the music is so fun. I love an ambitious musical. I always will. So absolutely, thumbs up. Great. Dad, how about you? Woody give it a thumbs up.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:14

Yeah, I think that I, you know, I've known this movie for a long time, and I would recommend it to anybody. Uh as long as they set aside certain proclivities they might have about, well, it's old, and well, it's in black and white, and well, it's the songs are old, and it, you know, uh uh it's just enjoy it. The plot's pretty thin, okay. Uh but but uh I think that the uh by and large, it's it's well worth seeing.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:42

Yeah, and I give it a thumbs up as well. I I adore it. It's it it it it's fun. That is absolutely how to describe it. It is fun. I'm so familiar with it. I've seen it dozens of times at this point. I think over the last week I've probably watched it five times because it's fun. Just have it on. The music is fun. That doesn't mean I'm necessarily paying attention to all of the dialogue anymore because I've seen it so many times, but it is it's comforting to watch. I think these characters are just familiar and they make me feel a little bit cozy. So I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:20

That speaks so highly of a movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:23

So Clarissa, I know that you had some particular reactions to some things.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:28

Tell us all about it. Okay. So first off, I think there's a lot of I don't know, maltreatment of women, and I shouldn't say like a lot of, but there's a there's enough to really make a note of like, oh, like this is how women are being kind of treated in this film, and but the sad thing I I feel like I had to kind of come to grips with after is like that actually is just how the industry was. I think a lot of movies, I mean, we glaze over it, and of course, like with the code and like with the Hayes Code coming into place and everything like that, there are a lot of things that were very censored, but this was a pretty honest movie of how things were, and that reality can't be sheltered. And I think I went into it with that expectation that it would just be this happy-go-lucky musical. Uh, and those things surprised me because uh a lot of golden age films with that after the code was put into place don't really show that side of it unless it's very lightly implied, like very lightheartedly, really, and that's a big deal. So those were a couple things I I think kind of gave me a jump scare of like, oh my gosh, I'm watching an old movie and it's got like this subject matter, whoa, whoa, you know, but but it was it it was still good to be aware of of like that that did happen. We can't we can't pretend that it didn't to be comfy, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:13

Right, right. Well, and that's something that we certainly dad and I have experienced throughout this journey since we're doing all of these in chronological order. And those are definite things that we encountered in Broadway Melody, for example. We saw the way that women were mistreated in the theater, things that they were expected to do in order to be in a production. You had the guy who had all the money, Jack Warner, I believe was his name in that movie, who is supposed to be. He's actually supposed to be Jack Warner. He has a different name in the film. Whatever. Okay. So it's the guy, it's the earlier equivalent of the Guy Kibby character who ultimately Guy Kibby's character, Abner Dylan, is he's gross, but he's ultimately an idiot and he's harm harmless. He just wants someone to pay attention to him, and Ginger Rogers' character, real I can I can be that for him. Just pay attention. Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna get what I want, and I don't mind that he's gonna get what he wants, which is my attention, probably my body, all of that type of stuff. Even though those things aren't said explicitly, we understand them implicitly by the way that they're interacting with each other. And it doesn't feel as insidious as it has, I think, in some previous movies that dad and I have watched for the project. But it definitely, if you're coming to it, not having an understanding of this era, the pre and the pre-code era specifically, because those things are not gonna be shown in like two years. It's all gonna be hidden away because of sensors and stuff like that. And so I think it is, as you said, an honest portrayal of how all of that goes. And I think that it is intended to make audiences at the time, contemporary audiences, I think it is supposed to make audiences feel uncomfortable, and that they're glamorizing the life of being in these productions while also being like there's there's some problems.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:24

Yes, yeah, with all the people. Well, I think I think too, we we look and we look at women in the golden age like Audrey Hepburn or Marilyn Monroe, even Shirley Temple, and who have all had experiences in different levels that we now have seen in biopics or you know, documentaries, things like that. Um, and so I'm really grateful to have this film during this time, being honest, because there aren't many that you'll find. But um, but I also really appreciated the honesty of the depression and the mention of it in this film because especially during the time that is such a current event, and audiences, I mean, this made a lot of money, but it was still a sacrifice to pay money to go to a movie. And so being able, I mean, one of my favorite things I've talked about, like I've written papers in school about this, but just how the Universal Monsters kind of like shifted and helped audience members escape the Great Depression, all of the reality outside, like all those scary things with something kind of fun scary. Uh, but I really feel like at the time I would have felt incredibly validated to hear these things and be like, oh, I'm watching someone on the big screen, somebody who's made it to Hollywood, like a really big industry saying, you know, experiences that we're having as people in America, just your average Joe, the people who are in these seats. It's not all gowns and you know, jewelry and like in the the drawing room, like all these things like that can seem really extravagant in some old Hollywood movies. It's like, no, this is the nitty-gritty, like people who who struggle too. So I I thought that was very honest and I appreciated that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:14

Comments. I like that very much good, good. Yeah. I think that uh yeah, I think that the the that fresh perspective is really great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:25

I have to I have to agree. So let's um ask our question what about this movie distinguish distinguishes it specifically as pre-code, as in could it be made in the same capacity after the code is enforced? And we're about a year, a little bit over a year away in our timeline from when the code is actually going to be fully enforced and the pre-code era is going to be over. Now, again, pre-code is specifically this time where the code has been created but not enforced. It's not everything that exists before the code is enforced. It's just within this like three or four year time span. Um Dad, what do you think in terms of what we see makes it specifically pre-code?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:12

Well, I think that the sensitivities to uh uh relationships and things, I think too that the uh i i think what we want about the pre-code thing, that there is a capacity, I'm I'm not sure what what what what word to say that gives women a say-so. Uh uh okay. I I mean they they aren't just the lackey for somebody, but they they actually are are are are their own people. Whether it's through wise cracks or telling people to I mean, dorothy uh uh the the character that BB Daniels plays, I mean, uh throughout the movie she does a pretty good job of putting Mr. Dylan off, okay. Uh uh and and I think that that that those sorts of things not that not that they uh would be allowed in a in a in a in a code movie, uh they wouldn't. Uh but but I think that the uh uh things and and and I think a little bit too as we discuss the if I can use the word the kind of the naughtiness of of uh of the songs make it make it acceptable as as a pre-code film. And we'll see some of that later on too. Gold Diggers is probably even closer to uh uh recognizing as a pre-code film. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:38

Right. Yeah, I I would agree. And I think that we are still the female characters are all fully autonomous. Um so we've got four female characters who all have very distinct personalities. And even when the personality is I'm going to chase a man, like Una Merkel's character is chasing after Andy, uh Georgie Stone's character, she's so into this guy, and she's just like, I'm I'm going after what I want. And he kind of acquiesces, and yeah, okay, okay. But she is empowered to be able to do that, and there's none of this questioning of I shouldn't do that because what are people going to think? Or even Ginger Rogers' character being called anytime Annie, she doesn't know how to say no, all of those sorts of quips. She's still an empowered woman, and she goes after the guy with all of the money in order to get what she wants, and she's willing to make those sorts of exchanges. But love is still valued. Three out of our four couples are in love, two of them desperately, and it's adorable, but I still love the women in this movie, and I'm saddened thinking it we're right around the corner where those roles are going to slowly disappear because women are going to be relegated into having much more predictable roles in film, where they're usually caretakers and things like that. And that when you do have musicals and things like that, again, those roles are really, really um specific. And so this one still feels fun where you have women who just get to be themselves, even if the roles aren't super meaty, I think there's still enough there there to appreciate and revel in it just a little bit, as frivolous as this movie is. So, Dad, you've known this movie forever. Is there anything that you dislike about 42nd Street?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:42

I I I'd have to say basically no. I I mean, I maybe sh will shrug at some of it, but nothing that I actually dislike.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:51

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:51

Fair enough. And Clarissa, even if you are restating what you've already said, what did is there anything that you disliked about the movie?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:00

You know, I have been thinking about this, and I think that dislike and uncomfortable are different. And I so I I don't I don't dislike the almost harassment that uh happens in this movie. Um one thing I because I feel again, kind of just going back to what I was saying of like it's very honest, it it was necessary. And I'm sorry, but it uncomfortable doesn't mean bad, right? Like it it just me it means it's just more honest. So I I actually, even though you know, I struggled with those, I think that the uncomfortability is really important to feel. And so I actually don't have a gripe with it. I think it's it's good. And and I think what you said too about women being empowered in this film, and and honestly, what's these women's stories being told in this film is such a beautiful way of empowering them. Of like, oh my gosh, I have experienced that, and I saw how she dealt with that, and I saw how she dealt with that, like seeing these different perspectives just really powerful. So, no, I really just I love this movie, it's so fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:18

Yeah, and I think that too, I I have the same, the same view. I rem again, I remember seeing this as a kid and being grossed out by Abner Dylan guy Kibbian, just being like, ooh, he's he's gross and he's slimy. He I made the association between him and Jabba the Hutt um to a certain degree. And but that still carries over to me watching it as an adult, which tells me that there were they weren't hiding anything in the film from that I couldn't pick up on as a kid, and that those weren't inappropriate. It was appropriate to being like, this is this is the expectation. And again, as I already said, I think people are supposed to feel uncomfortable. I don't think people are cheering on Abner Dylan and thinking that he's getting slighted. We understand that he's the clown uh in it, right? He's not right, he's not the hero. So I think you said the uncomfortable is different than disliking, and so there's nothing that I actually dislike or I wish was different. It goes exactly the way that I want it to go. I am fully satisfied at the end. So then, dad, what pick something that you love about this movie?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:32

By and large, I would say what I love about this movie is it's fun. Yeah. Okay. I it it it it's just it makes me feel good. Yeah, I I mean, and that that's really sort of sort of a nebulous uh uh place to be. But I yeah, it it it it's uh it's a uh that's a good place to be though. Yeah, I I I I mean I which is why I'd see it again and tell other people to see it again and say, hey, this is this is this is good, this is fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:00

Clarissa, sp anything specific that you love about 42nd Street?

SPEAKER_03 1:46:05

Yes, I love that we see this like all-night rehearsal and memorization for her, and then we see as the show starts, she's like looking out at the audience. It's almost like you can see her accept that this is real and this is her chance, and she was so tired, but she worked so hard, and then you see her just flip a switch. She's no longer looking out at the audience, and she is just playing. Like she is in that role. And I thought that was so fun. It was such a nice tidbit of character development on her end in the performance that I was just like, you know, I don't know if everyone's gonna always catch on to those little glances and her facial expressions after the rehearsal or even into 42nd Street, like as a number, when she's becoming more comfortable in like in her role and on the stage. But I was like, I am so happy that I saw that because it's so fun for her, and I'm so proud of her. And that's a fun thing to feel is like this emotional pride and in your character. So she did just so well with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:12

Yeah. Excellent, excellent. I think there's so much to love about this film, and I just I think the thing that I love about it, the musical numbers are top, top notch. Okay. The production, the Busby Berkeley choreography. But I think that the movie is so well cast, there I can't think of a single person in it where I think they're not doing their very best job. Okay. So Ned Sparks, Guy Kibby, Georgie Stone, everybody I love. Una Merkel is delightful and adorable. Ginger Rogers is great. She's playing this total weirdo, speaking in accents. And I love that there's just seems to be a group chemistry that's going on among everybody that they managed to pull off in 28 days, by the way. Okay. At one point, whatever's on film is the first day of film. We don't know what day it is, but it's to me, there's kind of this magic that seems to happen with all of these people who are so good at their jobs coming together, playing these different characters who also have to come together to do their jobs to do put on this production. And I love that sort of synergy that seems to be happening with everyone because I agree, it makes me feel good. And I think that that really only comes across because all of these things are coming together so perfectly. And that is what makes it fun, is because I think you're watching people actually maybe potentially, even if they're super exhausted, they're having fun making the film. I have to imagine that making this film was a little bit fun. I would I would say probably. Okay, so now we're gonna get to our Aerosmith questions. Our Aerosmith questions are from when we watched the movie Aerosmith and we realized what do we do when we don't like a movie? Clearly, we all loved this movie, but we thought maybe there's some additional questions that we need to be asking for movies to see if we can get a little bit deeper. Are we getting something else out of these films? So posing these questions to both of you will start with the first one, and Clarissa will ask you first. Does watching this film, 42nd Street, make you a better person because it affected you emotionally in some way?

SPEAKER_03 1:49:50

You know, I think in ways it does because it I think it kind of taught me to ignore that defense that. I felt and I don't know, just it it made me feel a little bit more grateful. Just for you know how how far we've come for these women for like showing I don't know, just everything that they needed to, but also grateful for the experience of watching today an incredibly ambitious movie that was done during an incredibly difficult time in our economy. Just that is such a cool opportunity. And I think that a lot of people, you know, uh William was kind of talking about how some people might be resistant to watching this movie because it is older. But I'm like, you don't understand that we have this incredible piece of history at your fingertips that you're able to enjoy and say, this is what they were able to make during a really hard, dark, and sad time. And that is just so beautiful. So I would say, like emotionally, after I finished watching this movie, I was like, wow, like they're they are so committed to making other people feel happy, other people seeing the truth of this industry, uh, other people experiencing art and music and silliness. And I just I thought that was really beautiful. It just speaks to this crew, this team. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:24

Ask ask Clarissa the other question, Sarah.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:27

Okay. So, Clarissa, does this film make you think deeply about the world at large?

SPEAKER_03 1:51:34

Yes, I would say, I mean, just some of the things that have come out in our discussion today, I feel like I am realizing more and more and and feeling more and more with this movie. And and you know, I think a lot of people could take this movie just for what it is and be like, oh, it's a movie about a play, and then they perform the play, and oh, there's some love, and oh, there's some icky guys, and you know, like move on. But but I think this movie lingers with people who are watching it intuitively and with an analytical eye because you want to take those concepts and you want to take, you know, that happiness and the ambition, and you just you also just don't really have movies with an ensemble like this anymore. And that is so cool. So, so I do feel like it it brings that that new perspective. Also, I think I've never said out loud, uncomfortable doesn't mean dislike until this episode with you. And I think that's a really big deal, being able to say, yes, like just because there were things that were uncomfortable doesn't mean that I didn't like it or that it was wrong. I think I've always kind of known that with movies, um, or just with art in general. I mean, we talk about you guys were suggesting some really fun things to me, and I'm like, it they might be uncomfortable at first, but it's like, no, that's you're having an emotional reaction for a reason, and art imitates life. I don't know, it's just cool. So, yes, I would say yes. Excellent. Dad, what about you?

SPEAKER_01 1:53:09

I think that the the the movie affects me emotionally for a rather strange reason that I'm kind of coming up with right now. Sometimes when I was growing up, you'd get into a situation where you really like something, and some of your more cynical acquaintances, or sometimes even friends, would say, How can you possibly like that? That's stupid. Okay? And and what this movie makes me say, no, it's not stupid. Okay, this is satisfying in a lot of ways to me, and I and and and and I liked it for that for that reason, so so that it affects me emotionally that way. Uh it now Clarissa's amazing because she has brought up stuff that I I I I sort of have to think about how would I take this movie in terms of seeing the world at large when I first saw it. Okay. Ooh, that's that that's that that that that's going back some. It doesn't make me see the world any different. Okay. Uh, but but that's because the passage of time has come to sort of catch up with oh oh oh okay, so so that the Aerosmith questions are interesting from from from that perspective. It is not a deep dive, okay? It's it's it's sort of like a a refreshing swim, okay? And and um uh uh and so I like it for that reason. How about you, Sarah?

SPEAKER_02 1:54:47

Well, I do think this movie makes me a better person because it's part, it's been a part of my entire life. It is it has informed my worldview in a way I think that probably I'm not even fully aware of because I have been in tune to it throughout my entire existence. And so, does it affect me super emotionally? I don't know if it does, other than it brings me joy, right? Sometimes when I'm asking this question, I'm really thinking about did it make me sad, or did it was I engaged in a really specific emotional way? But I'm typically equating that with sadness, right? Or I'm or I'm crying or something along those lines. But that because it makes me happy to watch it, and because it is such a joy, that that is the emotional reaction that I am having, and that I have always had that reaction throughout seeing it as a child, and that it has my enjoyment of this film has increased. I loved it a lot as a kid, but I still love it and enjoy it maybe even more as an adult. And so that's what makes me a better person because I get to carry it around with me as part of my lived experience of I know these songs and I know these little quips that these characters make and how they interact with each other. And so I'm like thinking, oh, I'm trying I'm actually trying to think what would my life be like if I didn't know about this movie? And I feel like that would be a loss, right? And so that's kind of my perspective on it. My life would be just a teeny bit dimmer. I wouldn't be aware of it necessarily, but I that is unimaginable to me to think that I don't know about this movie and that I haven't carried it with me throughout my life, and that it is so fun and kind of ridiculous, and so yeah, so does it make me think deeply about the world at large? I think it does make me think about yeah, interacting with art, and sometimes it can just be that it's entertaining, and that's good, that's good enough, and it doesn't always have to be this deep introspective, intellectual, analytical thing all of the time. Sometimes we can just be like, that was beautiful, and I was happy that I had that experience, but also maybe that in and of itself is a really deep introspective statement at the same time, but maybe not. It's I don't think that you could necessarily get into a super deep philosophical conversation about this film in its particulars. But Clarissa, you said so many amazing things about thinking about the difference between uncomfortability and dislike. And I think that this is the movie that made that happen for you, and that is wonderful. I think I probably couldn't ask for a better first reaction to this film, especially since I don't remember what my first reaction was, and neither does Dad. And so you are here living in the present moment, and that it that is making me think about the world at large and how we approach cinema because you and I spend almost 100% of our free time talking about movies and all of those things. And so, what do you what what are you left with when you have something that is so I think most people would say frivolous? What what do you do with it? And so you just say, I loved it, and that is that, right? Yeah, we are almost at the end here. So did the film deserve other Oscars? It won or lost, so it was nominated for two Oscars. The first, of course, being Outstanding Production, and the second one being Best Sound Recording. Now it didn't win any of those awards. We have covered Cavalcade, who which it was the winner this year. Um, I can't remember what won Best Sound.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:16

I'm looking it up right. I'm looking it up right now, Sarah.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:19

You are, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:20

Sound recording uh was won by a farewell to arms.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:24

Okay, that makes sense. Yep. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:27

So Clarissa, I know that you don't necessarily know all of the other films nominated, but why don't we just go ahead and ask you? Do you does it make sense to you that this was nominated for outstanding production? Word, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:42

I mean, I mentioned the sets, yeah, but I really I don't think I got to rave enough about the 42nd Street song set because it was so ambitious. And of course, we have this kind of perspective of this was made for a movie where we're watching a stage production, but the stage production is only possible because it's recorded as a movie, right? Like the bird's eye view. But I think that the set and the way that it moved and kind of the flow of 40 Second Street was so cool. I I really was almost just jaw on the floor. I was like, this is amazing. So yes, I would say absolutely. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:22

And and what about sound recording? Did you were you impressed by the sound? What now? When you and I had talked about um black bag when we were on movies and us, you had specifically pointed out sound design as being like excellent. So I defer to you.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:41

Totally. So one thing, I mean, kind of I mentioned it with Shuffle Off to Buffalo, but I love that there were things that were so day-to-day that were recorded really beautifully and crisply. Kind of like uh we were mentioning earlier the bacon, like the sizzling bacon in another in another film, or um, and people were just so excited about that. That's how I felt in this movie of like, I mean, you can hear the bristles on those polishing shoes so crisply. And of course, now we have this a lot of technology for newer movies where you can hear just every little crinkle or whatever, but but I just have to really appreciate how much detail and intentionality went into that uh with all of the sound and then incorporating it's just so ambitious to have normal everyday sounds incorporated into your songs. So yeah, I would absolutely I totally understand why this is nominated. Dad, what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 2:01:45

My thoughts are are very much what what Clarissa said. I when I when I thought sound recording, oh, it probably won.

unknown 2:01:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:53

And and then you see a f a farewell to arms, and okay, uh that there's something else going on there that uh that so uh yeah, I I I mean, it it deserved the nominations it got. Uh it also deserved to lose both of them. Um uh okay. But we'll we'll we'll get into that in our finale, Sarah, which it's gonna have a f is it's gonna have a few surprises for well, so you know what's interesting?

SPEAKER_02 2:02:20

I was just thinking, Nathan Levinson has been uh nominated so many times. And okay. So yeah, this is the year where Nathan Levinson is nominated for three Academy Awards for best sound recording, and he loses to the guy with a single nomination. So Nathan Levinson was nominated for best sound recording for 42nd Street, this film, Gold Diggers of 1933, which is our next film, and I'm a fugitive from a chain gang, which is a movie that we did with um uh Kieran, and we had talked about the sound design. And he loses to Franklin Hansen for a farewell to arms. And so I think we have to say props to Nathan Levinson for being a genius with sound, which is still a relatively new concept in film, because we'll notice again next week in um Gold Diggers, which is almost the same film, almost, almost some some differences. Okay. So two musicals that he is nominated for, and Fugitive from a Chain Gang, which is just over the top in terms of all of the things that are going on. So there's this part of me that thinks, honestly, I don't I think any win for any of those films for sound recording would have been just fine. You can't, I don't think that any of them are actually a disservice or a dissatisfaction. Farewell to arms winning absolutely makes sense. But also, if 42nd Street won, that would have made sense. If it was Chain Gang, that would have made sense, but also it's the same guy, right? So this is one of those times where I was like, I think, I think this is the one where he's nominated for all of all of them and could almost only lose to himself.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:18

No, I I I I just wanted to do this is apropos to nothing. How did Nathan Levinson feel when he was nominated for three awards in the same category and didn't win? How does that make Frank Capra feel? Uh right.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:31

Frank, I you know, and that makes actually makes me wonder. Hang on, hang on. He is nominated, Nathan Levinson is nominated the next year for Flirtation Walk, also starring Ruby Keeler and Dick Powell. But Douglas Shearer, who is Norma Shearer's brother, is nominated for Viva Via. So anyway, so it's just one of those things where so for sound production, I'm like, I think any movie could have won, and it would have been just fine. Now, we'll talk again more detail in our finale in terms of outstanding production, but I'll just say it right now. I enjoy this film way more than Cavalcade. And this this movie brings me joy. Cavalcade is an outstanding production, and I do believe that I did give it a thumbs up, but I don't want to re-watch Cavalcade. I I want to re-watch this one over and over again. We'll get back to it. Which means, is this film re-watchable? Would you choose to watch this film again, Clarissa?

SPEAKER_03 2:05:44

Yes, 100%. I actually would like to re-watch it tomorrow so that I have everything we've talked about fresh on the mind. Yes. Okay, okay, fine. I will.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:54

Okay, fine. Dad, are you gonna re-watch this film?

SPEAKER_01 2:05:58

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:59

And guess what? Me too. It's it's that good, y'all. It is that good. Okay. So good. So now we're gonna get to our Shea Cinema stats. This is our wedding and our death count. As of last episode, which was King Kong, we are up to 42 films. So now we are at 43 films that we have watched. Last time we had 29 weddings. We did not increase our wedding count. We are we have promises of weddings. We don't have any actual weddings. So we are holding steady at 29 weddings. And then finally, our death count out of 43 films or 42 films was 368 deaths. We added 43 deaths in our last episode in King Kong alone. Our deadliest film this season, second only to also this season, The Side of the Cross, which had over a hundred deaths. It's been it's been a bad season. It's been a bad season. Um I think there are zero deaths in this movie, right? Except for maybe Dorothy Brock's career. Um yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:27

I was going to say the death of a career.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:29

The death of a career, yes. And so we have not increased our stats at all, except we watched one additional movie. And that brings us to our Bimbo Award. Now, Bimbo is the given ape that we fondly remember from the very first film that we ever watched for this project, the movie Chang, silent movie Chang, directed by the same people who directed um King Kong. And Bimbo is this ape that kind of steals the show. He actually has title cards and dialogue. Okay. So the Bimbo Award is something that we get. We don't always give a bimbo award, but the bimbo award is for a superfluous or useless character or a character that absolutely steals the show. Clarissa, who would you like to nominate for the bimbo award?

SPEAKER_03 2:08:36

Okay, for stealing the show, I would probably say anytime Annie, Ginger Rogers, just mostly because I really enjoy Ginger Rogers. I mean, you were there for my first Ginger Rogers experience as well. Yes. Uh, but I loved the monocle. I mean, the tone that was set from the second she came onto screen. I was like, oh my word, she's completely notable. And I I just thought she was so fun. Excellent. Dad.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:05

Who are you?

SPEAKER_01 2:09:06

I think I I I think in terms of the uh of the criteria that we set up for a Bimber Award, that's a good choice. Yeah. It's so it would be so easy to choose uh uh Guy Kibby, uh uh, but he doesn't quite fit the criteria that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:23

Uh yeah. Oh, so you're saying Ginger Rogers. And so I actually would have to concede and say that, or not concede, concur that Ginger Rogers is the bimbo because she steals every scene that she is in. She's not in the film a whole lot, but her character is so ridiculous and is absolutely not what you would associate her with, I think, particularly once she's in all of these movies with Fred Astaire, where she is a very typical leading lady. And this is such a ridiculous her character is so silly from the moment. Oh, what sort of time are we having? And it's so, it's so fun and so silly that she absolutely is the bimbo in because she steals the scenes that she is in. Perfect. Perfect, perfect, perfect. Okay, well, that leads us to the end of our show. Our next episode is going to be a bonus episode. It is Gold Diggers of 1933. If you guys are like, well, I know the term gold digger, guess what? It's because of this series of movies that existed in the 1930s and beyond. It is a movie musical. It's ridiculous. Clarissa, you need to watch it ASAP. Yes. You're going to love it. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Watch it tomorrow with 40 seconds. And you should. Clarissa, remind everybody again who you are, where we can find you, what you are up to.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:07

Yes, I am Clarissa Overett. I've seen that one on Instagram and an embarrassing TikTok page. Mostly find me on Instagram. Uh, and I am going through movie classics I've never seen.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:20

Excellent. Excellent. And I am so glad that we could be part of that experience for you and have you do this film. And of course, you're gonna join us next season as well to do I are we already know which one you're coming on for, right? Yes, pretty pretty sure we already have Clarissa booked for at least one episode next season.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:45

We'll I love it. That's great. At least one.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:48

At least one. Excellent, excellent. So thank you everyone so much for joining us. You can find us on every streaming platform on Instagram. At Shea Cinema. Sometimes I'm hanging out over on threads, talking about weird movie stuff as well. Clarissa and I have both been on the Revisionist Almanac. We've both been on the greatest movie of all time podcast. I got my five appearance hat. And send us an email and let us know what you think. Should we have more guests, like on every episode? Um, because I certainly enjoy it. Uh, you can reach us at shaysinema at gmail.com. Like and subscribe or things that I'm required to say that are supposed to boost the show. I don't know. I think we have 12 listeners at this point, Dad. Slightly more than before. Maybe we could get to UCLA. I know that Andrew has been putting in requests all of the time to see White Parade, which maybe it's a terrible movie. I don't, I don't know. We'll have to see. We have to know. We have to know. We have to watch it to know. So again, thank you so much for joining us. We will see you next time, Dad. Say goodnight, Gracie.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:12

Good night, Gracie. Good night, Clarissa. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:16

It's been wonderful. Yes. Really wonderful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:20

Okay. Bye, everyone.