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Sound Off #90 - Arcade VR falters, can Gen Alpha save cinema, and more!
Sponsored by Intercard!
On this week's Sound Off with Kevin Williams we examine the evolving landscape of location-based entertainment, from terminology debates to financial challenges and technological innovations. The episode explores how traditional experiences are being reimagined through gamification, VR evolution, and the resurgence of mall arcades.
• Debate over industry terminology: "facility" versus "venue" for describing entertainment spaces
• Cinema industry seeing Gen Z and Gen Alpha as potential saviors of traditional business models
• Financial restructuring at Pinstripes with bankruptcy protection affecting 18 facilities and 900 employees
• Clear Hill launching unattended "Fun Hub" entertainment concept with no on-site staff
• Kiddleton (Genda North America) partnering with Walmart for seven attended-less entertainment venues
• Chuck E. Cheese returning to Australia after a failed 1981 attempt due to naming challenges
• Mall arcades experiencing resurgence, filling retail spaces left vacant by online shopping
• VR evolution continuing with LAI Games' Ubisoft All-Star VR replacing Virtual Rabbids
• Trend toward "screen deluxe" systems offering immersive experiences without VR headsets
• AI challenges including data collection concerns, copyright claims, and reliability issues
• Kevin's partnership announcement with Augmented World Expo (AWE) as advisor
Are you on the edge of your seat Because we're about to?
Speaker 2:Sound Off with Kevin Williams covering today's latest trends in location-based entertainment, brought to you by the LBX Collective. Your community to connect, engage and inspire. All right, everyone. Let's buckle up. Let's buckle up.
Speaker 1:All right, Well, welcome everybody to Sound Off with Kevin Williams. This is episode number 90 for September 16th 2025. Kevin, how are you doing, my friend? I'm doing. Well, from a rainy, sunny, rainy, sunny London Sounds just about London.
Speaker 2:All right, Well, let's dive in and tell me how you're going to change my mind today. Oh well, let me get on my rant train. Everybody always comments that when I'm doing these podcasts or when I'm writing or stuff like that, I always use the facility term incessantly. And you know there are some people that fight the corner saying that facility isn't the right phrase. If you come from England, we don't like the term facility because it has connotations with toilets and plumbing and stuff like that. That's where, in the American section, facility has connotations, you know, regarding the venue or the room compared to the setting or the location. If we're going to get pedantic with the dictionary definition is because it encapsulates multiple approaches to venue utilization rather than just a single venue kind of approach, and it's because, mainly the work that I do in location-based entertainment, I'm always describing a plethora of different types of venues.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I can see where you're coming from. I think it really comes down to fluidity as I struggle to say that word, fluidity of language and facility. I just don't like the four syllables that it takes to say that Venue rolls off the tongue very easily of. I tend to genericize the term venue and cover all types of LBE, but then you know, if I'm talking about a roller rink, I'll call it a rink. Or if I'm talking about a trampoline or adventure park, I'll call it. Hey, you know how many parks do you have? Right, it's more specific to that.
Speaker 1:Or if it's a bowling center or bowling entertainment center, you know what does your center have in it. You know what kind of attractions does your center have in it. You know what kind of attractions does your center have. So, like I think it depends for me anyway, I tend to shift my terminology for the box based on actually the type of lbe venue that it is. And there see, I use the venue term as a generic term. So yeah, it is interesting. I have to give this some thought.
Speaker 2:Like, try to fit facility, cram that into my vocabulary no, no, just just because a quirk like myself uses the phrase facility. I'm more trying to come up with an excuse for myself rather than saying that it is the correct approach.
Speaker 2:One of the issues that I have is that I have to describe sometimes a multi-facility operation, and you know, it's just easier to say that rather than falling into the generalism of describing each one individually. There is no right or wrong, but, being a pedant as I am, it's always nice to stick my oar in regarding terminology.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, look, I did struggle when I started to use the term venue much more frequently. I did struggle with it because you often think of concert venues and sporting venues and sporting stadiums and so like, just as what you have there as a, as an example on the definition, right, as a sports stadium. You know you go to a concert venue, so you don't go to a, an entertainment venue, typically right, you go to an entertainment center or others, right. But you also don't say like, as a consumer, you don't say you're going to an entertainment facility. So I think like it depends on you know where and probably locale. So, yeah, this is an interesting one.
Speaker 2:We look forward to the arguments in the comments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not sure you've changed my mind on this one, but we'll see. All right Well, coming up after the break, we will get right into the trends. All right Well, coming up after the break, we will get right into the trends. Intercard is the only cashless system designed, developed and manufactured all under one roof. They introduced cashless technology to the amusement industry and have been leading the way for over 30 years. Cashless systems from Intercard increase customer spending, guest satisfaction and boost revenues by up to 30%. Intercard is so proud to be serving the amusement industry and if you aren't already part of their global family of customers, they hope you will become one soon.
Speaker 2:Thank you, intercard. And straight into the trends and let's delve a little bit into the economy and some interesting developments from the cinema sector. Our friends at Variety ran a story that said that the cinema industry was opening a bottle of champagne regarding Gen Z and Gen Alpha, saying that it was clear that this audience group could save the traditional cinema business model for them. And they gave some interesting numbers and percentages there of how long the audiences the younger audiences, are spending in the facilities, what their activities are. They're more likely to be using their mobile phone for during the performance. Uh, on screen, and, as we've seen, success from the mario brothers, the Sonic, the Hedgehog and the Minecraft films that they have seen record attendance mainly from the Gen Z and Gen Alpha brigade. It would be living hell for me to be in a cinema experience where everybody's on their phones or talking through, but I'm an old fuddy-duddy from Gen X, so what do I know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I find it interesting too, like when you look at the games or the excuse me, the films that are coming out now, the ones that are gaining popularity, especially with Gen Alpha, are basically around properties and IP that Gen Alpha is familiar with, like Mario Brothers, sonic, minecraft, et cetera, video game IP. Whereas, you know, you think back to some of the films that came, the film franchises, the large franchises that came out of the. You know the late eighties and the nineties, you know times when I was going to the theater as a younger, as a younger adult and kid, they were based on TV shows that were, you know, that had been running. So think about Mission Impossible, right, large franchise started as a TV show in the 70s, 60s, sometime around there, right, you've got you know.
Speaker 1:And other franchises that started as TV shows that then moved in, right, star Trek obviously being one of those. And so those were like, hey, what did kids do, what did even young adults do when they were in their downtime? Well, they weren't playing video games, because that didn't exist until you really went to an arcade. But you weren't playing home games, you were watching TV. And so you're watching the stuff that was on TV, and then that's what they converted into some of those films. So I find it interesting to see that shift happening as well to see that shift happening as well.
Speaker 2:There is a formula in the movie industry. There's a formula for everything. When you're dealing with billion dollar properties and they do calculate their target audience and they do hope that they're picking the right earworm that will draw the audience in, I don't believe that this will save the cinema sector unless the cinema sector wants to be saved. And if they're saying, oh great, everything's fantastic because we've had three or four franchises that have pulled in an audience, then they may be missing the point of how much they have to change their experience. But we can come back to that at a later date.
Speaker 2:Jumping from eponymy into the biz, from eponymy into the biz, and, funny enough, a couple of days ago I was actually standing outside the elvis evolutions experience in london and it was closed and it looked very sad. Um, I haven't received an official statement if it is still going or not, um, or if that was closed for a private event and the people attending the private event looked very unhappy. Either way. We have seen news reports that over 3,000 of the visitors that have been to the Elvis Evolution Experience have complained on social media regarding this, this, and that even Barclaycard, the bank credit card operation in the UK has been offering refunds for those that complained about the experience that they had attending the event. I think we're going to be facing a borrowed time for this operation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everything I can tell online at this point is that they are currently not booking, although they do say that they are booking through the end of December, written there, the actual ability to book says not currently booking. So that would tell me that they may have had a contract through the end of the year, but that they are either trying to rework their situation internally or they're just planning to not open again.
Speaker 2:I wanted to bring the situation to our attention regarding the complaints, though I think we'll be touching on this subject in a few weeks' time. Another facility that has gone through the ringer we've mentioned pinstripes a number of times we even wrote pin strikes in there.
Speaker 2:That's so funny like yeah, my brain is really trying to tell me something about maybe I should open a franchise called pin strikes uh, maybe that is what it is. Anyway, they made the announcements, uh, that that they're declaring bankruptcy. Usually it's bankruptcy protection here, rather than so we say the European equivalent of complete declaration. There's 18 facilities out there. You know they have about 900 employees, so these jobs are on the line. Everything went dark as soon as we broke this story. We were one of three media services on the Internet, or social media, that got the information, and so we ran with it, and then everything went very quiet. So either they're going to find an acquisition partner, they're going to find new investment, or a more grueling process lies ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they will need something right. I mean, they can't just file bankruptcy and do a restructuring without some form of investment coming in. That's typically why you do the bankruptcy, so it clears away some of the distressed debt, so that then a new investor can come in without having to worry about taking out that debt, in order to help them restructure and get things going again. But you know, as we talked about many times, they're going to need to change their model. This is a restaurant with light entertainment and it's been very overbuilt and they tend to market themselves as an entertainment destination with a restaurant, and I think they really need to. They're going to have to change their model for sure if they're going to be viable in the long term, especially given the size of their facilities strikes against pinstripes, and then I'll be in uh, in a better position to complain about what terminology we should use.
Speaker 2:the issues are that they are restructuring to get out of the debt that they have incurred, and I'm led to believe that we have a number of other chain operations in the entertainment and the location-based entertainment market that will be announcing similar debt repositionings, but again, we'll touch upon that when we get more information. But it does seem to be that period where people feel it's a good time to reorganize the debt you're sitting on. I managed to speak to the friends of the previous park playgrounds, now rebranded the Park VR. They corrected me. They do have 15 facilities open in Europe, though some of those are franchise operations. They're unique VR arena experiences now deployed in other locations. They confirmed to me the situation over the UK partnership. It just didn't work. The company that franchised the operation just didn't have the capability or the understanding of what was needed to run a VR experience and roll it out effectively, and we will be hearing during our ILPA Europe coverage about some developments that are coming from this operation.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, not a big fan of their rebrand, but as far as their new logo is concerned, but whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get the feeling that they should have gone for the Park XR. But hey, what do I know? Our talking about investment and our friends at F1 Arcade announced that they're partnered with Top Racing Ibiza and sorry, iberia, but they're a Bifen operation and they're going to be deploying a couple of Spanish F1 Arcade facilities. So the first European venues will be in Spain and in our family's hometown of Madrid. So hopefully I will receive an invite to that. Knowing my luck, I'll be traveling when the event takes place. You know they received about $130 million in an investment round to roll out. This was last year that they received the money.
Speaker 2:As we've already reported on, the F1 box concept has appeared and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a strategy under the surface regarding how F1 is going to take over the world, moving on and more investment and more openings for some of the chain brands. Level 99, which I think I've described as an active social entertainment operation. Uh, you know they secured about 50 million. Uh, in going to be clear here, follow on growth equity commitments, which is another way of saying that your debts are going to be cancelled and you have a line of credit to a certain amount of money Not necessarily 50 million, but definitely within that range and we're about to see them roll out more facilities in North America. We're about to see them roll out more facilities in North America. I've got about four on my list that are in various stages of development.
Speaker 1:And we even touched upon one very briefly in open and shut that had just opened. Yeah, I'm excited to go and check out the level 99 in Boston in in a few weeks I'll be out there for a for the head of the charles and afterwards I plan to hit level 99 on my way out to northern new york. But I'm excited to go check it out. You know they have they really are a mission room, adventure room type facility. But it is also like a little bit of this park playground feel too, because you have some other games, are a little bit more open and then they also have rooms and so it's got such a really cool vibe and feel to it and I do like what those guys are doing, especially given the fact that they have recently announced their location at Disney Springs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, active rollout at Disney Springs. Yeah, active rollout. We also now are at that point where real estate companies and mall projects and development projects are now talking about the entertainment component that they're adding to their projects. And so we have. You know, the Palmdale Mall in California is going to. You know, the Palmdale Mall in California is going to. You know, the Valley Mall development operation is now going to be rolling out a brand new mall operation and as part of that operation, they've revealed that they will be putting in the new version of the Round 1 bowling and arcade experience version of the round one bowling and arcade experience. So this is a mall installation but, of course, with an outside entrance as well as a mall inside entrance, and that should be open for 2026.
Speaker 2:and then something that we talked about, in open and shut, a new concept. Clear hill is a company that is known for dropping uh, those kiddie ride machines and those kiosks that you see in the middle of shopping malls uh, even those vibrating chairs, though this is the type of company that drops in what they like to call leisure vending systems. They don't have an attendant and they're built in such a way that they can be operated through an app. Well, they've now decided to take that concept and pull it out from the middle of the walkway and put it into its own unique facility, called Fun Hub not to be confused with the Fun Hub in Canada and this particular concept is all monitored by CCTV, no attendance, it is all operated through a smartphone payment app, and we just look forward to seeing how quick security can get into the facility when the kids start vandalizing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean this feels to me like just asking for chaos and for kids to come in and be kids. What they do, so know not necessarily intentionally destructive, but this is going to require significant maintenance on a regular basis. This is not, like you know, a. I mean some of these attractions require consistent maintenance anyway, but the fact that it's unattended you also have air hockey as well I mean you're going to have pucks flying everywhere, kids going home with pucks, Mainly into pockets and away mainly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Going home with the pucks in their pocket and you know you've got a couple of VR rides, you know, so you're going to have problems there and anyway, this just does seem to be. Maybe having one staff member there wasn't a bad idea. This isn't a rocket science.
Speaker 2:We have been here before. I you know this isn't the first time that uh, I have had someone suggest that they um can do a totally staffless uh experience. I I look forward to be being proven wrong here, but I'm an old enough bunny to think that they're going to come to the realization that they're going to need a member of staff. Our friends at Kiddleton or should we say Genda North America, I think would be an easier one to deal with have come to a relationship with Walmart easier one to deal with. Have come to a relationship with walmart. An easier installation of an attendant, less vendor attainment experience, if we're going to use all of those terms.
Speaker 2:Seven facilities are going to be opening up in walmart venues. They um, you see facilities and venues. Anyway, it's getting confusing. The issues here are that we've already seen the Kittleton concept rolled out as a attended-less entertainment experience in previous mall localities and our friends at Player One Entertainment Entertainment, or Genda North America, depending on the rebranding, are going to be handling this process. We've already seen six of the seven already throw open their doors and it is a pretty standard fare offering.
Speaker 1:This seems to me just to be a match made in heaven between Walmart and Kittleton. I mean it really is a good fit, walmart. I'm sure there's some revenue share opportunities going on there at some level. So Walmart gets the extra added revenue, kittleton gets the exposure to the Walmart audience and it's right up their alley. So this just is a great fit.
Speaker 1:So Peter Genda's again making moves, or, excuse me, player one, oh wait, I mean Kittleton is making moves that are just dominating North America and all being done, I feel like under the radar of so many different people and brands out there.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's better that they don't, but I think we're going to at this speed of growth they're going to have to think about nailing down their brand identity regarding what they are, who they are. But again, maybe this stealth operation is the best way to achieve world domination. And you know that world domination is being seen with the increased rollout of the smaller standalone Kittleton operations, to the point now that they are calling these things mini locations. We see we should have added locations to the terminology. They're creating mini arcades, mini locations.
Speaker 2:Our friends at Player One on their website are actively looking for people with space in retail units that are interested to franchise this. They now have their own interpretation of the claw machine the new wave claw machine offerings in a turnkey operated package. This is the kind of thing not my cup of tea, though it is part of my industry. I have to be aware of it. But fundamentally this is a very strong business model. To pick up the periphery of the amusement sector that isn't being dealt with by the traditional trade, what I would say the natural progression from the street route business progression from the street route business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And just to your point about the brands, I do struggle with the variety of brands they have and actually I'm not a fan of any of them. I mean, you think about, you know, venue Plus, you think about Geico, you know Kittleton, like all of their public facing consumer facing brands I feel like just aren't quite interesting enough or cool enough to, and not that they need it necessarily, because as long as they have good merchandise in there you know merchandisers in their entertainment units then okay, maybe the brand doesn't matter and I'm overthinking it.
Speaker 2:I keep on having the same feeling about this, but I'm not the target audience and also, you know, it is not my cup of tea, it's not my bully wick. It seems that from whatever they're doing, it's been successful so far. But we will have to wait and see how many of these venues and what their longevity is, and for me that is the most important thing and what their longevity is, and for me that is the most important thing. And again, Player One, Genda North America, has a relationship also with another retail entertainment leisure drop-in concept. Our friends at Unis developed the Emoji Planet arcade concept last year. They've rolled out four facilities so far and they have now started a relationship with Player One to drop into Canada their first location of the Emoji Planet system. For those that weren't aware, Emoji Planet is really a redemption prize machine and light amusement arcade, all based on the Emoji IP property.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was wondering about this. Actually, is this something where there's a joint venture between Unus and PlayerOne? Because we talked about this briefly on the Open and Shut at the LBX show a couple of days ago and I was thinking about that. I was like wait, emoji Planet was developed by Unis and I'm curious how Player One got their hands on it, unless Player One is just the operator slash distributor and Unis is making the Emoji Planet actual games, the Emoji Planet actual games.
Speaker 2:They're making the machines and they've created the package, the installation and most of the machine purchases are being done through the distribution operation that is PlayerOne. Okay, I think it's a little bit more complicated than it needs to be and I asked the question why Unis wasn't doing all of the moving parts. But, as Adam will be touching upon regarding the GTI China Expo coverage, our friends at Eunice has got a lot on their plate at the moment. Something we also touched upon very briefly in the open and shut was the appearance of Chuck E Cheese in Australia, courtesy of a colleague of mine. I had to correct my previous coverage stating that this was the first time that Chuck E Cheese had opened in Australia. It was not the case In 1981,. It was not the case In 1981,.
Speaker 2:Chuck E Cheese opens their first Australian facility. But, but, but, but. But. The slang word in Australian of throwing up is called chuck. We also have it in England. Yeah, he chucked up, but they sort of decided that they would rebrand and call it Charlie's Cheese Pizza Playhouse and that concept died a horrible death only lasting just over 12 months before they closed down and gave up on the idea of having an Australian operation. We're hoping that the new franchisee operator and the new Chuck E Cheese facility in Perth does much better than that.
Speaker 1:You know, I think so. I was thinking about the Chuck word, and obviously we have this in the US as well the famous limerick how much wood could a woodchuck chuck? The woodchuck could chuck wood.
Speaker 1:And so you have that, so we have that. But you know what, what never did I actually equate chuck with. You know, when I hear the brand chuckie cheese, and maybe just because chuckie cheese has been around in in this in the us for so long and just in in our uh americana, but yes, also you know, I would also say, like you know, you're the peanuts and charlie brown, uh, was frequently called chuck by pepper patty, and so we also know that Chuck is that. Anyway, it's just funny that they don't. No, no, no, chuck is.
Speaker 2:Charles Mortimer Cheese, and so it is an abbreviation of his name, down the Peanuts route. As you astutely observed, and you know, when Nolan Bushnell was defining what was needed in the arcade mascot, because Chuck Mortimer Mouse was going to be turned into a video game character, there was a video game based upon his IP. But you know, the Chuck stuck, as it were, and the rest is history. So you know, chuck Wagon is chuck, wagon is something you throw in the back material of. So you know the chuck phraseology is important, but back in the 70s I don't think anyone really cared that much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's funny. And it's so funny, though, that it was so strongly. They were so strongly averse to it in Australia that they actually went with Charlie Cheese pizza. I think they were badly advised.
Speaker 2:I had a chance to get some background information from someone who worked in the early days of the Chuck E Cheese operation and there's a lot of stories that will curl your hair from those days. You know we talk about companies suffering financial problems. You know Chuck E Cheese in its early days really did go through how to blow money and influence people very quickly. But again, conversation for another day. And that day is now. And you know we need to be mindful that Chuck E Cheese comes from a period really when the mall arcade was in its heydays.
Speaker 2:1970s really saw the explosion of dead retail unit space being taken over by this weird video game craze that all the kids are playing. And you know, here we are, jump, jump forwards to, uh, current time and we're seeing mall arcades appearing again. Uh, as I alluded to earlier, you know a lot of this is convenience we have, due to the retail apocalypse, available retail unit space courtesy of the internet explosion. Most people make a lot of intermediate purchases online and so that available real estate can now be turned financially well into arcades. And, as we've seen with Chuck's Arcade, it is the return of the mall arcade, but written for the Gen Z, millennial audience.
Speaker 1:It's fascinating, absolutely fascinating, the trend we've seen, I mean mall arcade after mall arcade, retro arcade, barcade, etc. That trend just continues to grow over the last few years, et cetera. That trend just continues to grow over the last few years and we'll see if it ends up being a pendulum swing or if it is something much more sustainable over a longer term.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting that the traditional amusement trade doesn't seem to be embracing this to the level that you would have expected. But maybe it is not for the trade itself to get involved, but it is for the operators that are developing these concepts. But either way, if they are a pendulum and they swing violently in the opposite direction, we all get a bath. So I think we should have a part to play in this personal opinion. Talking about the trends in tech and our friends at Ripley's we were only talking about them a few sound offs and open shots ago, with their revitalization and acquisition of water parks to expand their entertainment business. Well, they've also uh partnership, um with versus immersive for their augmented reality adventure platform to be installed at a number of facilities. I don't know how many of the Ripley's they must have over a hundred different entertainment sites dotted across the globe but it was announced that there will be multi-location rollout of this augmented reality experience.
Speaker 1:This seems like it could be a potentially interesting fit right. I mean, I could see something like this going into one of their believe it or not's in their lobby. You know, some of the verse immersive attractions or you know experiences, I should say are a little bit more on that kind of wackiness edge, exploring alternate worlds thing, and so it fits a little bit of the Ripley vibe depending on the location it's going into. You know they've got a lot of boardwalk locations as well, with mirror mazes and other things, that they could have some empty space available to put in a verse immersive installation.
Speaker 2:And because it is a flexible AR package, you know they're not nailed down to having to have a perfect amount of real estate space to populate it. So I agree with you, it seems a very logical partnership and it will be fascinating to see what the ROI is from this installation. Virtual reality still making a mark, our friends at front grid with their para drop um, you know, it's interesting. It's been, uh, just over five years between the launch of their original system and now we're seeing, uh, their slightly more modern version or interpretation of their platform now going into the Niagara Falls location, and now we also see them, excuse me, packagizing or containerizing their entertainment, their VR experience, in a system that is quite suitable now to be incorporated into traveling shows and into fairs and carnival deployment. I'm interested in this particular path that they've gone down with this system to see how much a VR platform like this can appeal to that particular market.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this was interesting when I saw this because I immediately thought this looks like this could be dropped into a carnival it could go to. You know, maybe they're planning to sell it to inflatable rental companies. So the ones that do the types of carnival games and inflatable games for school events and other things like this would be now one of those things that a school could rent to have at their event or birthday parties could rent to have at their home that kind of thing. I wonder if they're going all the way down that path or they're still planning to go more like the corporate carnival sale side of things.
Speaker 2:That's a pretty chunky container that you use. You're going to need to use a lifter to move that around, so I get the feeling that that's aimed at the mall. So I have an idea that that's aimed at the mall. Sorry, I meant the playground and the barn and the professional operations. It also reminds me I used to see, a couple of years ago, the 90 VR egg systems from China put in a similar kind of contain for the mall market. I keep on saying mall for the fairground market side of the business. We will wait and see what the reaction is. Hopefully they'll bring one of those containers to our album so we can get to get to try it out.
Speaker 2:Vr uh grows and so we've really reached an interesting progression point uh in the amusement application of virtual reality. You know, the most successful or long longevity of success from vr arcade applications is virtual rabbits. It became the gold standard of vr in many facilities and it was. You know, lots of sites changed their perceptions of VR from being just a fad to an actual revenue generator based on virtual rabbits. Well, lai Games revealed that they've now upgraded the product.
Speaker 2:Now we see Ubisoft All-Star VR, which again is another partnership with Ubisoft All-Star VR, which again is another partnership with Ubisoft. It is a scaled back, re-envisaged VR system. That screen behind the machine is an LED active screen that is still using the D-Box motion system but, as you can see, they've peeled away a lot of the original themality that, funny enough, ubisoft created. This was a Ubisoft original idea that LAI Games licensed and developed and made into the success. And the new system, uh, now has been developed with much more of an amusement eye on how it has been laid out and its audience appeal, even down to, uh, the retention system has been greatly reduced.
Speaker 2:Uh, for the head-mounted displays, which I'm led to believe are the deep uh headsets, are that they? Uh, rather than using the htc headsets, rather than using the HTC headsets that were in the original Rabbids machine? And, of course, they've made a deluxe attraction version to grab as much real estate as possible. It's all, for me, down to how good the game experience is, because we've gone now from Rabbids being a passive VR novelty experience to now being an interactive game experience through the All-Stars VR platform.
Speaker 1:I always find the shift here very interesting to the having the large screens in the back. So we talk a lot about that. You know amusement and success and amusement especially with with larger groups or parties is in the ability to spectate.
Speaker 1:And that really is the sole purpose of having I mean, I shouldn't say the sole purpose. One of the primary purposes of having that big screen behind it obviously is not augmenting my personal experience if I'm the one actually playing the game, but it is there so that others can actually spectate and feel like they are participating with you, alongside you, and draw attention to the game as well and show how exciting it is that I want to play it next. But I think the more we continue to see more and more of these with these large screens to give it and make it easier to spectate while others are playing.
Speaker 2:Audience engagement is essential. It's one of those lessons that I have to keep on telling new developers of hardware that are coming into the amusement section to make their machines compelling for audience engagement, so that engagement then can migrate into play. You know I want to have next I want to do that how much they're going to entice the audience by showing what's the VR where it's seen is going to be interesting, and we'll get a chance to see the final version of this system at IALPA during Barcelona Europe's event. I just wonder that at some point in time people are going to look at this and say just turn the whole machine to face the LED screen, remove the headset and play the scene. And we've seen it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Our friends at Raw Thrills, working with Eunice, have developed a non-VR version of their hugely successful Godzilla property. And the reaction when we leaked the story leaked the pictures that Adam had captured from the GTI show on our social media, every operator is going oh, at last you know a physical. Oh, we've been waiting for that VR helmet to be removed so we can play the game properly. And I am just wondering if this is the beginning of a two-tone approach to this type of entertainment, where you'll do a VR version for your full immersive kiddies and you'll do a flat screen version for everybody else. It's an interesting situation and, again, I haven't been given a date yet when this is going to be turning up in north america. This machine has been shown at the chinese show because unis has the right to representing raw thrills products, selected raw thrill products re-engineered for the asian market, and one of those re-engineered systems was an all-screen version, which what I like to call, uh, the deluxe screen or big screen offering, where they've got two of their very large screens to create a six, two of the 65 inch screens together to create this compelling version. But at the chinese show we have also seen the appearance of the vertical large screens, which we're trying to now call screen deluxe systems.
Speaker 2:It's important to have terminologies for these uh machine, uh types. So you understand, because they come in two flaps. You even mount them on top of each other or you have a very big one, uh in importance or in uh portrait mode, and for me this is a very compelling entertainment approach. Uh, it's easy to play, easy to install, has a wow factor. Going back to what we were saying, uh, for the audience appeal, you can see what the person is doing and you won't mush your hair. Now you know, I've got you know gone on record what my feelings are about VR. Vr done right is an amazing and compelling experience. But for the amusement sector, vr came with a number of issues that didn't offer a general appeal unless the game game was exceptional or if you were writing off the novelty. You know, rabbids was an example here where these kinds of games talk to the core player base and audience and embraces the latest technology.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're going to see more and more of these screen deluxe cabinets, and I would actually venture to say that we're going to see more, even with two large portrait screens side-by-side meshed together, very similar to the Ubisoft one that we were just looking at with the multiple rides, where you've got a really large screen deluxe with the curve, because that's what's really going to give you that immersion as you're in your face and you really are seeing it curved around you. I think that we're going to give you that immersion as you're in, as you're in your face and you're like you really are seeing it curved around you. I think that we're going to see more and more of this, and I think back to playing Kung Fu Panda at IAPA Expo in Orlando last year. It was their launch.
Speaker 1:You know the Kung Fu Panda stand up where you had the VR. You're standing up. You had the large screen right in front of you. I'm like, just get rid of the VR, right, don't. Why am I wearing this headset? Why not just hand, you know, hold the paddles and then engage with the screen right in front of me. And I think this is the direction we're going to be seeing more and more of these types of experiences and amusement pieces kind of going yes, uh, what was it?
Speaker 2:uh, knight heron, uh, the developers there on kung fu panda, yeah, I didn't ingratiate myself by sort of saying get rid of the uh the hmd and just jump straight in. But you know uh, we will have to wait and see, uh, if the operators prove us right. But I've been working on a number of concepts which are immersive enclosures using the latest of the led, high density or a high graphical performance rate, led display system, panel systems, and we're about to see one of those kinds of approaches come from VEX Solution, a VR company long record of developing VR experiences, who have now jumped into launching again at IALPA Barcelona an immersive experience which they're calling the first mixed reality arcade attraction. I'd like to talk to them about some of the other ones that have been out in the market, but they're using both the LED high-persistence display on the floor as well as the wall to kind of create an immersive experience with, of course, the tracking of the players movements represented in the game.
Speaker 1:This is super telling when you see companies that have done exclusively VR for many, many years to then make the shift to what we'll call mixed reality not the first, but mixed reality arcade attractions. That is very telling about where they even think the VR, the amusement VR, is going.
Speaker 2:My penchant for naming everything I would like to try and call these immersive display games, but I'm sure someone will come up with something better than that. And then we have the gamification of traditional experiences. We've been charting a number of karting experiences that have either used vr or augmented reality or mixed reality through projections. This particular system is a little bit hype inducing. They, you know their artwork on their website and their promotions, you know, had these fantastic graphical representations that I've put up on the slide here showing, you know, wonderful boxes appearing from nowhere and missiles being launched from other players, when really, really the action is viewed, or the game aspect is viewed, through a touchscreen on the steering wheel of the car. And again, I'm looking forward to seeing how immersive and interactive this experience is. But again, it goes to show the gamification that we're seeing applied in the market.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this comes down to, so I'm glad that this is happening. You know, I think we've been talking about now this is still high-speed carding, so this is a little bit different than what we were talking about offline. Actually, about the different carding experiences and having the lower speed carding experiences but interactive, that you don't have to put on the helmet, being much more open to a general, broader audience, more accessible for those. Again, also, people who don't want to mess up their hair by going to a carding venue can still have a lot of fun and play in these types of interactive experiences. So this is clearly another one, and this is like five or six of them, the different flavors that are out there right now, and my big issue with them comes down to exactly what you said, which is that the images available online present a different type of experience than you're really going to have when you're there.
Speaker 1:And this is I will rant on this often. I'm not going to go down a big long rant, but just again, the images that you use online set the guest expectation when they come in and they don't see a floating box on the ground, you know, or something like that that they can then, you know, tap like, or there's not a projection map thing that they can see, they're going to have a more, a disappointed experience, especially if a little kid sees this and then is expecting to see it right. Adults can maybe be a little bit more discerning, the kids maybe not.
Speaker 2:That's where we have an issue. Disappointment is disappointment, no matter what age. I kind of feel, and again, I haven't sat down and had a long talk with RPM, but I get the feeling that it is difficult for a certain age group in our industry to get their brains around. What is the engagement and marketing factor of interactivity? Their R&D teams present them gamification, but for them it is very difficult to understand how they can best represent it through the Norman clincher that they're used to promote their carting experiences. I think they're going to come a cropper if they overpromote.
Speaker 2:We have touched upon that before. We don't need to touch upon it again. Then, going back to what we were talking about earlier with the cinema sector and how the zeitgeist for everything retro or video game is just gaining more and more momentum. Also, going back to what we covered in the retro arcade feature in the Entertainment Social Arena, as well as what we've talked about with all the openings over the last few months, we're seeing the transition of arcades now to being uh keychain, proper uh properties, and if you've been following the explosion in keychain memorabilia hanging from, you know those awful furry uh labubus labubus, I'd make a point of trying to get that name uh to now.
Speaker 2:Actually having an accurate representation of the video game from the 1970s and 80s is pretty scary. I did the comparison in our social media. Look how far we've come over 40 or 50 years between the machine there and now. What is being developed and that nostalgia for uh, the arcade machine we need to build upon. We need to embrace this. We've seen this also regal cinemas, with the launch of the latest in the tron series of films from walt disney. They've created a arcade machine shaped uh, popcorn bucket or containers, they like to call it. This arcade nostalgia we need to embrace. It's our industry. We shouldn't really be letting others steer it. Why aren't we at the front of this? But that's my rant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally agree with you. Looking into this hyper mega tech, I wasn't actually familiar with this company, so the they have the super micros, which are the four keychains that you've identified there, and they really truly only have just those four keychains, but then they have this thing called the super pocket, which is slightly larger, obviously fits in your pocket. But what I find interesting is they actually have a tato edition capcom, atari technos, neo, geo and the data east editions, all with, like, specific games. So you do the tato edition it's the 18 games from the you know from tato, and you have you do the capcom edition it's games from capcom available all on that, one little device in your pocket and, uh, yeah, pretty, pretty fascinating the availability of this content.
Speaker 2:It's, uh, icon structure, it's a zeitgeist as being an arcade machine in your pocket and stuff like that. Um, we will have the branding show in london, uh, in a couple of months time, and I know that we'll be reporting on a number of other big retro arcade machine developments, not just in electronic machines to hang from your belt, but also in merchandising and in apparel as well. We're hot and we should be basking in the sun rather than watching from the sidelines. A quick one here for people to keep an eye on if you're running a entertainment facility and you have a restaurant component, um, I would really recommend that you look into the virtual dining concept. Uh, it is a means to automate the usage of your kitchen space so it can be linked into what we want to call ghost kitchen business, the deliveroo kind of approach. One of the things I feel very strongly about is food wastage, and so getting involved with something like this will cut food wastage and also generate a secondary, tertiary revenue stream. Again, that's some homework to do offline.
Speaker 2:Anyway, a quick rundown of the AI trends and the worm turns. So our friends at Meta changed, tried to stealth watch it and failed to do that. Their terms and conditions regarding how they record and collect the data that their smart glasses are gathering caused a big backlash, a lot of arguments, a lot of anger and a lot of evasion from our friends at meta, who are also suffering a black eye over the revelations that they may have sat on investigations regarding the impact of vr children. Again, that's something you can look up offline. And then we have reports in the media that there is a growing backlash to people being filmed. Again, we're back at that glass hole moment where people wearing the latest smart glasses are finding people quite unhappy of being filmed or their image capture or data being collected or their conversation being recorded. So you know the worm has turned against these AI infused glasses a little bit. They, you know they're still selling. They haven't dried up yet.
Speaker 2:But then, from the AI point of view, we've suddenly seen some problems. We have seen the first legal case regarding copyright claiming of the data that these large language model systems were using to create their generic AI systems were actually not fair use, that they couldn't just grab any material off the internet people's books and stuff like that and articles and such like and then just use it to feed their machine, they have to pay the piper. We're looking at the first claim. You know Anthropix seems to be a little bit of a white knight AI developer, so I'm not sure if we'll see the other obvious claims that are now going to follow this against the chat, gpts and all of the other platforms.
Speaker 2:The media covered this very unusually. Some of them covered it, talking about the Anthropic deal. Others seem to miss the Anthropics deal and talk about a success that Meta had hadney for, how they have utilized their IP within teaching their system. So I get the feeling you know I keep on using the phrase the worm has turned, but really I think the weather is going to be changing for the AI search engine market. This may be a passing storm or it may be a major swall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean I like what you said about Anthropic being the white knight. I mean, obviously OpenAI is well, maybe, or maybe not obviously, but there's a number of different cases around content and copyright legislation or, excuse me, copyright lawsuits that have been filed. And then actually earlier this year there's 12 independent ones, including New York Times and Denver Post and the Authors Guild, et cetera, and they were actually consolidated into a single lawsuit by a federal court in Manhattan just to try to, I think, streamline the overall legal. So it will be a big deal right. The fact that Anthropic settled they didn't go through a legal thing, I think was probably good at some level for the overall AI industry. Not great for the content creators necessarily, although they did get a settlement at least. So it'd be interesting. I think the big landmark case will really be this OpenAI case as it makes its way through, because obviously the amount of different individual entities and people that it affects will be pretty significant.
Speaker 2:I look forward to my check Our daily lives. Of course, the big announcement from the Apple event was the launch of the iPhone 17 Pro. Being a heavy phone platform, it's AI assistance capability hopes to be a leader in the market. The way it takes pictures, the way you interface with it is all driven by a strong AI assistant what some people are calling an AI-native smartphone. I have problems with it. They're not the first ones in the game and I remember the iPhone 16 announcement with their AI assistant, which seems no one seems to be talking about it well, that's why.
Speaker 1:That's why you know you said here apple is making ai invisible. I'm like well is, it was already invisible from them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, I, I get the feeling that they need to have a dog in the game. Uh, and so they. They're claiming lots of things. The iPhone 17 from Reaction was a bit of a nothing burger, so hoping that its AI capabilities are going to stand out. And I have big problems with AI at the moment because you know, it's being used for all kinds of things.
Speaker 2:Now we're seeing, uh, the security and uh monitoring systems, the cctvs, uh, the multiple screens cannot be watched by a human. No, no, no. They now are going to have to be supported by ai. That is going to be using facial recognition and body, uh, body motions, to calculate if someone's in trouble in the swimming pool, or if someone's in distress, or if someone is doing something nefarious or in an area where they shouldn't be. We're taking the load off of the screen watcher and putting it in the hands of AI, and I can't trust AI to do that. I have now come across numerous occasions where AI has got it wrong and hallucinated, and just think of your lawsuit. If it hallucinates and doesn't spot the person in the corner of the swimming pool who's face down, the lawsuits are going to be pretty high. We're not there yet with this technology don't take the training wheels off of the cycle yet and the example I'm using here for hallucination while I was putting together my coverage of the new um uh, the new uh games, uh product with ubisoft thank you, brandon the uh I I just quickly typed into the search engine what was the date?
Speaker 2:Just uh, off the top of my head. I couldn't remember and it comes back defiantly november 2020. It's wrong. It wasn't november and it wasn't 2020, it was september and it was 2017. And so you know. I type in the bottom you are wrong.
Speaker 2:And it comes back and it goes uh, I think I am right, uh, I will check. It goes away and checks. Then it comes back with a single oh, I, uh, I was incorrect with the information I had. It was. And then it came up with another date that was wrong and I'm thinking ah, this is because it is a small industry and a small amount of information that it can feed off and it's feeding off of the top of the list and obviously it's making an assumption or hallucinating from the limited information it has. That's why I'm always concerned, using these smart tools, asking questions about what I've been writing about, because I may be eating my own tail by indirectly just seeing my articles regurgitated back to me, which I don't really want to have to deal with.
Speaker 2:It's very concerning to see how much AI is being used and we are now beginning to see the problems writ large moving on and a little bit of housekeeping and um. I think our audience needs to be aware of some announcements regarding what I'm involved with. I have decided to partner with our friends at augmented world expo, the leading event for the ar and xr industry. It has three shows one expo that takes place in California, one that takes place in Europe and one that takes place in Asia. It is a veteran of the augmented reality world. It has awards and we've been talking a lot about how much location-based entertainment is employing XR technology and we need to be part of. That will be a great opportunity to promote this aspect of the business without there being a danger of it being just one company over-promoting.
Speaker 1:I'm really looking forward to this, certainly, and so you know, looking forward to, yeah, anyway, this type of thing, and so, yeah, I'm just kind of curious what are some of the reasons that you're going into this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I twist Brandon's arm behind his back to get him to ask me questions, but the fundamental reason is that we need to have a means that is open to everyone not just to key sponsors, but to everyone where they can promote innovation. If we don't innovate, if we don't grow and that is the migration, maybe, from VR to mixed reality, as we've just been touching upon previously from some companies that needs to be grown naturally rather than put behind a walled garden where only certain individuals are prepared to pay to play can do that. So this will be a open to everyone. We will have stage presentations, panel sessions where we will go into details, as well as keynotes from key companies. But, to answer the question, it is what this industry needs, unless we want to be a flash in the pan boom to bust, where we had fantastic opportunities. Everybody was excited by the technology, but as soon as the harsh light of reality was turned on it, it imploded and disappeared. That would be deadly for everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally agreed. Generally speaking, who are we looking for to be a part of this and to participate in this, especially from an attraction and vendor standpoint?
Speaker 2:It's open to operators or facilities so they can come and see the latest technology. The hardware developers, the content creators are going to be prominent front and center. You know we will have a number of demonstrations. This year's uh augmented world actually had a number of uh location-based entertainment exhibitors that are friends of dream parks ran a mock-up of their system there. We had an augmented reality haunted house experience or mixed reality haunted house experience. So the organizers have begun to see the change in the market. We've moved from the dreams of consumer VR and AR more towards an enterprise and commercial entertainment approach. I expect to see all facets of the sector from the operators, the developers as well as the investors.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, looking forward to it for sure. And I guess one of the things I was wondering, I mean, this is this I've never been to the AWE yet, and so I'm looking forward to participating next year. But what makes this different or unique than like, let's say, amusement Expo, for example? I mean, obviously there's some of the obvious ones. Right, one is focused entirely on amusement, but I'm just curious where they're going to see differentiation between the two.
Speaker 2:Well, we don't have an example of an event that's open across all sites. The virtual uh summit arcade summit had certain limitations to it and is no longer happening. Now that concept has been dropped by the aei organizers. That said, um, they are in discussions to try and work out a better, more focused approach for the amusement industry to deal with this technology, but what AWE offers is a chance for as many aspects of this technology emerging as well as established to take place. So I hope to see a lot more innovation on the floor there and I also want to see a lot more business being done rather than you know the novelty factors that we've seen of VR being treated kind of a redheaded stepchild by the amusement trade. This isn't going to be just an amusement industry event. There will also be theme park products there. There will be location-based entertainment projects there, as well as the software developers, and again, we've never really seen the game content creators from this sector actually uh exhibiting and talking about their product development process, and I think we'll find that valuable.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So the first part of this relationship. We announced September 15th that this is going to be happening. I am now going to have to sing for my supper. I'll be coming on board as an advisor. I will be continuing my other projects and consultancies and stuff, but this will be one of those pet projects that I'll be championing over the coming months.
Speaker 2:I will be presenting in December at the European AWE event, which is called United XR. They've already pivoted into the XR field and I'm part of a panel session that's going to be discussing location-based entertainment and its XR involvement. Anyway, the only other thing is that I should think by the time this goes out, I will be in Indianapolis presenting at the Amusement 360 event. Presenting at the Amusement 360 event I'm a senior presenter there when I'm not stuck on the other side of the planet and it's going to be interesting. I get a chance to present on future-proofing, the future of location-based entertainment, and I look forward to telling our audience here a little bit about how that went and what we talked about. Enough about me. Uh, have I missed anything, brandon, or is my ego all encompassing?
Speaker 1:that has nothing to do with that. No, I mean, I think it's been, uh, a great sound off and looking forward to the augmented world exp Expo in June of next year. And then I'm just bummed. I'm not going to be able to hang with you next week in Amusement 360. But I will be down in Northport near Tampa, just a little bit south of Tampa in Florida, for a new opening called Do the Beach and it's an indoor inflatable thing by the group at Galaxy Multiride. So I'm very excited to go check that out and visit that opening and I'll definitely be talking about that on the next LBX show. Excellent.
Speaker 2:Well, have a good one everyone.
Speaker 1:All right, thanks, kevin. Talk to you all later.
