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Sound Off #98 - Oncoming Headwinds, XR Gaps, Cinema's Decline, & more!
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On this week's episode of Sound Off, we challenge the hype around mixed reality and debate where tactile, social play still wins. Consolidation, IP land grabs, cinema’s cultural shift, and the rise of premium watch-party venues shape the next year for amusement and location-based entertainment.
• Mixed Reality’s latency gaps versus laser tag’s instant feedback
• Genda’s acquisitions, China footprint, and supply chain strategy
• Oxygen absorbs Ninja Warrior UK sites and expands active play
• Travel disruptions and macro headwinds for LBE operators
• Theme park and dining brands pruning to profitable cores
• Cinemas lose ground as Cosm scales communal sports viewing
• Stealth social concepts, multi-activity mixes, and guest flow
• Cyberpunk, Nerf, Pokémon, Fall Guys push IP into amusements
• Sega, LAI, and linked-play attractions for repeat visits
• Retro bar-tops at home and venue opportunities missed
• Risk alerts: stranded EV fleets and teleoperated “AI” robots
• AI legal pressures over training data and market realism
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Are you on the edge of your seat? Because we're about to start with it. Covering today's latest trends in location-based entertainment. Brought to you by the LBX Collective, your community to connect and inspire. All right, everyone. Let's buckle up.
SPEAKER_02:All right. Well, welcome everybody to sound off number 98 for November 11th. Kevin Williams here. How are you doing, sir? I'm doing well. How are you doing, Brendan? Doing great. Doing great. This, like leaving for an app of leaving for Orlando this week. So super excited about it. Yeah, let's.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, yep, it's gonna be good. It's gonna be good.
unknown:All right.
SPEAKER_02:Well, let's dive in and uh how are you gonna change my mind this week?
SPEAKER_00:Well, uh technology XR, uh, and as always, a little bit controversial, but I haven't really seen any of these demonstrations of these AR, MR experiences that claim to be as good as a laser tag experience really cutting the mustard. I would even argue that some of the uh developers of these experiences don't fully understand the allure and the certain elements of uh laser tag that have endured for all of the decades compared to what they're offering with their entertainment experiences. I didn't pick any particular uh experience, uh MR uh experience. Uh I'm not going to uh single one out, but I'm just leaving it open generally.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I would totally agree with you. And, you know, I don't know that if it's one of those things where the technology just isn't there yet, the latency problems are, you know, if if it's the control mechanisms and how you interact with it aren't there yet, and that's just only going to get better. Or if it's is it just is this really, I don't see the best we're ever going to have, but are there always gonna be limitations in the real-time feedback in which you have what you have with laser tag versus what you have with these systems? You know, I have done other systems without naming names where you know you're supposed to move your hands like this and it's supposed to pick up your hands, and then something shoots out of your hands and it works like seven out of the ten times. And that's a frustrating user experience, especially if you're actively trying to compete against somebody else and shoot somebody with something. And obviously, what they're trying to do here is some sort of like uh Harry Potter experience where you're shooting, you know, spells back and forth at each other. And you can't do that with a laser tag uh system. I get that. Um, but the types of experiences that we've seen just aren't there at the same level of real-time interactivity. I think this is one reason why we've seen the success of gel blaster actually in these laser tag arenas. It's actually the very opposite. It's actually much more tactile than MR or XR uh solutions. And that's what kids and that's what families are looking for, is that more tactile experience instead of these types of visual experiences.
SPEAKER_00:What I what I always call physicality uh of the experience, the social physical experience. Uh, with the uh the current MR systems, and of course uh I'll be clear, my definition of mixed reality is passing the real-world imagery from the camera view of the headset into your vision compared to AR, augmented reality, which is see-through, where you've got a lens in front of the real world and it's uh being displayed upon. And it is those AR glasses, such as um uh the Snap systems that we saw uh recently um that are of interest for these kinds of experiences. I will name a company, our friends at uh MeLeap with the HADO system have offered something different to Laser Tag. They they are actually not having you running through an arena, but you're playing kind of PvP player versus player uh kinds of experiences. This particular uh Wand experience is MR. It's using uh uh a MetaQuest III S headset. Uh so it's using its camera system, and uh all of those effects that you're seeing are you know computer-based, they're being superimposed onto uh so we can see what the players are seeing, and that level of physicality, that level of computer power, that level of movement, because it's very fast moving, is what uh a physical system using lasers or pellets can achieve uh and achieve very well and prove compelling, where the technology at the moment is 80% there, 70% there, uh a little bit more time in the oven. So, again, to to answer the question, I should have really said not better, not there yet. And of course, one of the things that we're going to be seeing when we're over at IALPA, uh, and it's gonna be announced in uh uh a day or so's time, is that we're gonna have a new entrant to the ARMR style of uh uh immersive uh entertainment experience that is all rendered within the headset on real-world environments, but more about that later on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, coming up after the quick break, we'll dive into the economic trends. How are your game floor with arcades by Allen One? Whether it's perfectly foreign drinks and duck to every photo plan, having official buttons things clutches, or defending cities to attack and myself command recharge. Alan One has took things for every venue and arcade floor that will delight your guests. Each game is also enhanced to later with each score. Free app attracts players' top scores and brings guests back to your venue for more. Visit AllenD1.com to learn more. That's Alan Dash One.com.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, Alan Long. And jumping into the economy. Now, you may have wondered why I was a little bit quizzical about uh coming out to Ialpa. Well, there is one concern uh for all of us that uh uh international travelers coming into America and even some of the local uh uh flights. Uh we've already had the first announcement of the impact from the uh government closedown or shutdown, um, that there is already uh an impact on air travel. And uh 10% of flights uh through the US or into the US have been impacted uh a week ago. And uh we're expecting the next shoe to fall, depending on how long uh the shutdown continues. And even after the shutdown ends, ends, uh there is the backlog that will have to be addressed. So fingers crossed that uh the Ayalpa uh crowd is not impacted uh by uh by all of this.
SPEAKER_02:I know it's certainly a concern for me, too. I mean, just flying from Phoenix to Orlando. I sure hope that uh we solve the problem. You know, do hear, at least at the time of recording, that there is a group of senators uh that are working uh quietly on a solution, uh bipartisan group of senators working on a solution. So ideally, you know, this gets worked out. You know, they understand, I think at this point the pain is really beginning to set in for not only their own constituents, but also for them as a result of that. So there is a limit to how long um a I think uh they can remain obstinate and not pursue a uh uh you know some sort of collaboration together. And so hopefully this does get resolved. But yeah, it is a concern for me, not just uh you know domestically but internationally.
SPEAKER_00:Of time of recording, let's hope that this has aged badly and things have sorted themselves there. Back to the biz, and it's that gender moment. Uh I uh talked about it briefly that we were going to have some news, and uh the news is yet another acquisition by the uh corporation, uh another mid-scale, uh what I would call mini-arcade chain. Um not really popped up on many people's radars. There are quite a considerable number of what would have been seen as the old school street route operator chains that have upgraded themselves. They offer a couple of machines, maybe some vending systems within hotels or uh within truck stops. Uh, this particular Neo Enterprises has about nine facilities that dotted around uh North America, and uh you know they have been hoovered up by the great vacuum cleaner that is Gender at the moment. Perfect fit for their Kiddleton uh special wishes. And then hold your breath a little longer and bang, something that I think is taking a little longer than I expected. But we now have a Chinese office for Gender. Uh it was a logical move on the chessboard of corporational business, and uh they've opened uh up two uh branches on both sides uh of uh uh the large territory, and uh I'm looking forward to the Ganzhou uh Genda moment when we're at uh AAA um next year in April, uh, because then we will get a better idea. One of the things that I've been recently writing about in replay is you know the impacts on the uh the market. And I see having a Chinese presence from manufacturing and design is essential to be able to then import those products in. We've seen Raw Thrills do that with their relationship with Wallapp, the same way that our friends at Sega have a relationship with uh Wallap. Uh and you know, I think we'll begin to see uh Ganda starting to roll its own machines more than they've been doing so far.
SPEAKER_02:This is uh sorry, please, Brandon. Oh no, I'm just gonna actually comment on the US, uh the North American uh you know continued expansion. This is something that I'm just surprised that we're not really hearing anybody else talk about, at least externally. Maybe it's getting uh some attention internally within certain with you know within their uh competitors here, but uh it definitely if this is a powerhouse already and only continues to get more uh and more powerful.
SPEAKER_00:It is the elephant in the room. Uh I know certain uh manufacturers I've spoken to make a point of not mentioning it. Um I'm sure it's like the internet, they're hoping that it will go away. Uh or uh uh some something else will happen and uh it won't get as bad as uh I am alluding to. Uh I don't mean bad in a uh in a in an uncomfortable way, I mean bad in an epoch shaking moment for the uh North American amusement trade. If you know anything about the vending industry, the vending industry used to have multiple distributors uh and very long lunches, and then over a period of time, consolidation, and we're we're down to about four key North American uh vending distribution houses. And I wouldn't be surprised if this is the beginning of the carpet roll-up uh for the North American market, if not for the international amusement market, because other investment houses and corporations will take a look at what Gender's doing stealthily and easily uh and wonder why they don't do the same thing. And they have access to clean sheet of paper and uh uh considerable investment support, where maybe uh established distributors in the amusement sector don't have that uh access. Moving on now, uh our friends at uh Ocean, uh so Oxygen, if you're familiar with them, uh UK uh trampoline and active play uh organization. Uh they have uh you know uh a wide selection of facilities heavily on the trampoline and active play. They've uh undertaken to acquire Ninja Warriors UK, which is uh an operation that is based upon the TV show uh that uh was uh here in the UK. Uh that kind of you know, the you can see the game show where uh kids uh try and uh complete activities for high schools to to go through to championships. About nine facilities were built around the UK based on that property, and our friends uh Oxygen have uh rolled that up and added that to their operation. A logical inclusion. Uh I wouldn't be surprised if we see the Ninja Warrior uh component being added to oxygen facilities uh as maybe an additional attraction uh to their trampoline resource and an example of what we're seeing in the market at the moment of consolidation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think this is interesting because actually I was doing some research into leisure television rights as a you know, limited as a company, and you know, their whole goal is to basically build uh parks based on popular, uh, you know, popular activity or popular TV shows, excuse me, um, and try to tie in their theming. And so they've obviously done that with Ninja Warrior very overtly. Um but when you when I was researching, that's the only concept they've developed so far. They were founded in 2021, so they're not very old. So it does make me wonder if LTR, Leisure TV rights, is going to continue to uh develop new concepts or if this was just their exit out of the market. They did five locations all around Ninja Warrior, and now they're done. Um, because it's an interesting concept that they developed um, you know, as a as a corporate, as a parent company, um, but uh maybe they just found that there wasn't enough TV shows that they could turn into active play parks.
SPEAKER_00:That's my read on the situation. They had great aspirations, their first two facilities were pushed heavily linked to the TV show. They they gave me the Little Lions vibe, to be honest, with their Crystal Maze kind of thing, and then stalled at nine. Uh you may say nine's an interesting number for the UK. I uh get the feeling that if you're going to pay those type of licensing rights uh and try and roll out something, you're looking for a slightly higher number and maybe a more prominent uh market positioning. Didn't happen. Exit strategy. Now it's oxygen's turn. Next up, uh restructuring of the C-suite, constant going on at the moment. Uh, you know, it is that time of the year where corporations and investors look at the bottom lines, see what's been achieved, uh, and uh looking at what the 2026 market is going to be like, wanting to put the right people uh in the right positions, uh to be honest. Um CFO stepping down uh usually means that uh a restructuring of the financial positioning. Uh uh and I wouldn't be surprised if another member of the C-suite also moves on. Uh but again, I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves. But if you're not familiar with United Parks, they run the Sea World, you know, Busch Gardens, the Sesame Places, they're they're a no-name. Looking uh at ownership and control and moving on, and Walt Disney uh through their uh investment uh of their TV chain uh had been licensing or had uh acquired the uh rights to show The Doctor Who, the British television sci-fi legendary series. Um sadly, due to bad writing and a little bit of political machinations, uh what some people would call woke, other people would complain was a needed reboot. Anyway, the audience didn't like the reboots that uh Doctor Who have been going through, and even with the big budgets uh that uh Disney brought to the table for the production of the programs, uh the content of the writing was found wanting. Uh Disney has backed out very publicly that they will not be taking up uh the uh the rest of uh Doctor Who. And now the BBC is admitting that they're going to put this on hiatus for a while while they work out what they're going to do with this legendary property, which they seem to have manhandled. The reason why I bring this up is uh there was talk of uh Doctor Who theme park experiences going in to at least two of the new parks that are in development at the moment in the UK, uh, as well as a park in the US was actually circling around the uh Doctor Who pre-the new series uh season. And uh now both of those projects are on hold as well. So this is kind of uh the fortunes of uh drastically changing a format and making it not popular with your audience is a great way for it to not be around anymore.
SPEAKER_02:Oh man, I sure hope that Doctor Who continues with uh you know with BBC that they take it back and they continue to develop it. It's uh so iconic, and I've enjoyed all the different uh seasons over the years, at least that I've been watching it.
SPEAKER_00:Uh I I gave up watching, uh I was a Tom Baker fan um uh and had a chance to meet the man. Uh and you know I love sci-fi like yourself, but uh there's some sci-fi that uh not really my cup of tea, and Doctor Who went in a different direction. And I'm like many of the those individuals that uh voted with my leisure time somewhere else. Though I had the chance uh many moons ago to go through a Doctor Who live experience where they created a very impressive uh themed walkthrough experience that had a recreation of the TARDIS or some of the control room of the TARDIS. It was excellent and it was well received and it was incredibly popular, and it was going to lead to a rollout of more uh Doctor Who experiences. But sadly, the BBC's management thought that they knew better, uh, and that project crumbled uh to dust uh and you know it was a big loss. And I think that's the kind of a pattern that we're seeing with uh certain of the BBC executives who are also going through C-suite changes as I speak. Pinstripes, we talked about this uh briefly in Open and Shut. Uh you know, many promises had been made that they were going to stay open during the Chapter 11 uh and chapter 12 processing. Uh sadly, we now learn through local press that uh of the 18 facilities, 10 of them are going to close uh straight away or have already closed and have instantly put up signs. I'm not happy about this because uh people were led to believe that they could still book for uh events and parties, uh, with the understanding that uh this operation was going to stay open. Uh and people were looking to their jobs here uh within those ten facilities. And now I am wondering if the uh the birds are circling over the heads of the remaining eight facilities that still have their doors open. I'm trying to hunt down those eight facilities to keep tabs on them, but again, serious situation here, and we're not seeing a white knight appearing over the hills to come in and save them. So I think we are looking at a terminal dive for uh pinstrums.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I would totally agree with you. There's no chance that the eight locations that are remaining open uh don't eventually close over the next, I would give it even six months at the most.
SPEAKER_00:I I hope that um someone could come in and save maybe the eight last profitable operations uh and then use that as a launch pad to rebrand and develop. But I you know I'm a half-full kind of guy at the moment uh regarding uh saving brands. Moving on and uh saving brands, saving operations is uh very much in the minds of the cinema industry. After the blip of success at the beginning of the year, with a number of films that uh seem to show that uh Hollywood was back on track. Uh, we've had then multiple flops and quite considerable flops of ten-pole films. We've talked about that previously regarding Disney properties, uh, such as um Fantastic Four and Tron Aries being incredible failures, you know, uh quite considerable bombs. Uh, and we have seen other films that were expected to do big numbers, also bombing during uh the October period, which has now led many to be very concerned about the conditions, excuse me, of uh the cinema sector in North America. Interesting that, uh, where someone's failure in the cinema sector is uh another operation success, but let's not jump ahead too quickly. What are your views about uh the cinema scene in North America, Brandon?
SPEAKER_02:There is something culturally changing here in the US. I don't know. I can't put my finger on it yet. I have been thinking about this actually for a while, or at least for the the most of this year. Um, but something has begun to shift. Uh, obviously, as more and more content is available, available at home, as TVs improve, as sound systems improve, and they come at a lower cost, you know, my ex my level of experience uh, you know, is get is increasing at home, along with access to really good, strong content. But there's still something you know that is that is broken with the current cinema model. And I'm not sure what that is yet, but there is there's a significant change. This isn't a matter of um consumer spending habits changing or anything else. This is a this is a cultural shift that's happening. People are not going to movie theaters to watch films, even films that are designed specifically for movie theaters that are going to have a better experience in movie theaters, they're still not doing it. Um, one of the just things that that has been bubbling in my mind is as people get used to consuming content, even mediocre content on smaller and smaller screens like their phones, if they're willing to watch on a plane, for example, a movie, a new release movie on their phone, sitting on the back of a TV, you know, with some earbuds in their ears, and to consume Fantastic Four for the first time, if they're willing to do that because they're doing that all the time, every day on their phone, then what is going to get them to move from their house with a bigger screen than their phone to actually go and watch a film? Um, I think it's the fact that we have shifted to those smaller screens to consume that content that has actually begun to really make the major shifts.
SPEAKER_00:I call it a social change. Uh, I I like yourself have been following this. I I was actually thinking about this during the lockdown period of COVID, about what would be the new market, what would be uh happening to social entertainment, what would be happening to cinema going, what would be happening to the theater industry, which is also uh something that is not talked about, but the theatre industry has also gone through quite a painful uh baptism after COVID, uh, you know, even four years, five years on. You're right about the small screen. I'm gonna go back to the content, it's the content stupid. And mediocre content a couple of years ago could be put on the big screen and get a reasonable viewing. I if I want mediocre content, I can get that from my streaming services. At the same time, I can get fantastic content from my streaming services. Uh so my largest to spend money to go to a sticky floored, badly maintained, overpriced popcorn facility uh to see a mediocre film or badly written uh interpretation of a popular brand is limited. I'm circling big red star uh around what happens with the AMC deal with Netflix. If we see K-pop uh hunters do good numbers, then it it is definitely the content more than social change. If we see that do okay numbers and still uh and still see Avatar not break the budgets that we're expecting Avatar to break, then we've got a serious declinal problem which the industry's gonna have to go to. And part of their argument, of course, in the cinema industry that was mentioned at a number of panels during CinemaCon uh was the uh the issue with the new competition. You've touched upon some of the competition, streaming service subscriptions, we've got it at home. Why do we need to go? You know, I don't want to see Fantastic Four uh at the cinemas. I've heard that it's mediocre, we'll wait for it to come out on our streaming service, and we'll watch it then. And I can watch it off my phone or off our big screen, and the popcorn's a lot cheaper at home. But we've also got competition from other brands now, and competitive socializing may be one of those vampires that is sucking the blood out of uh the cinema sector. Our friends at Cosm made a major announcement that they have uh just uh signed uh quite a considerable long-term partnership uh to stream live uh the uh MBA uh series, uh all of their uh major playoffs uh and uh their finals. So these watch party experiences at a Cosm, the best seat in the house. And you know, I uh I I totally would rather watch uh a basketball game at a Cosm than actually go to uh uh to watch it live. Uh there are benefits to watching it live, but uh the food and the drink and the comfortable seatings is a lot better than uh uh especially uh certain of the stadiae uh in America that I've uh had to endure. That said, we've now seen a line drawn in the sand. And I'll touch upon this a little bit later, but I'm interested for your point of view, Gabriel.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, 100% Cosm is a better experience than going into the stadium. I mean, it depends what you're looking for. If you want to be, you're right there on the floor and you're high five with the mascot, and you're watching, you know, maybe you're into watching the the cheerleaders during halftime or something like that. Like, okay, sure. But if you're sitting anywhere up off, you know, I'd say higher than level than the 14th row, you are going to have a better experience at Cosm than you than you will at the actual stadium, waiting in the lines to get into the parking, to get out of the parking, to get your concessions. Everything else is just a worse experience than what you have at Cosm. So this is a this is a massive win for uh Cosm to get the NBA partnership, but frankly, also a huge win for NBA because it's only going to get more viewership for their games uh through the the the Cosm partnership as well.
SPEAKER_00:And I wouldn't be surprised if maybe one of the fallbacks that the cinema industry thinks about is that they're going to look at the F1 arcades and the Cosms and the success of their watch parties and maybe start to think about live sports uh presentations on the cinema screens, which is really playing a late catch up. But again, we can touch upon that. Stealth Mode. We have now a number of social entertainment venues that have been bubbling in the background of the dark web for me, uh, waiting for them to finally go live with a web page uh and uh drop their trousers a little bit more to uh reveal who they are. Uh a lot of these stealth social entertainment projects are built around IP properties or unique experiences that the developers feel are one of their kind and will drive, excuse me, audiences to their facilities. Bolar Social, uh, the marketing team, I bet spent thousands coming up with that name. Um, Bolar Social is a sportstainment environment, very heavy on the social engagement, very heavy on the drink and the food. Think of Tocker Social, but a little bit more active and a lot more physical. I can't go into too much detail about the actual experience because they're still in stealth mode, but uh, like our friends at Pool House uh have now revealed that they have an opening schedule uh and a plan. Uh mid January, I am now told. Um Pool House has gone dark again about their opening. They were meant to have opened their first facility in London around December time. I wouldn't be surprised if January becomes a crowded period, especially with the EAG amusement show taking place around that month. Month, it would be very advantageous for the investors and those in the sector uh to circle around that. But you know, here's one that is coming out of stealth mode uh and claims to have a phenomenal uh entertainment experience.
SPEAKER_02:Well, uh it'd be interesting. And uh you would love to even be able to sign up for uh an email newsletter, uh, but they have no website to be able to do that. So I guess nobody's gonna be able to uh have any information about them at all until they open. Because you know, why would you open and put up a website just two months before you're ready to open doors?
SPEAKER_00:They have a non-operational website which has just gone live. Uh, and it's obvious that they are kicking themselves that they haven't, you know, done the obvious. Uh, and I think they're playing a little bit of catch-up. Maybe uh maybe we'll know a lot more by the time of IL, I'll put it that way. And another company that's coming out of stealth mode, they all seem to like the darkened uh metrics for their facilities. Uh yeah, that that that plays both ways uh when you do something like that. But uh we've mentioned uh Rival Social, and now they have started their countdown. By the time I think uh this uh particular recording goes live, they should have started their soft opening uh at the Canterbury facility, and we will have a lot more information about their take on the social uh uh venture. They're going for a very much uh they've observed the market and they've clearly uh tried to uh emulate a bit of everything, a bit from uh Flight Club, uh uh a lot from uh the social base that Dave and Buster's uh attempted. Uh, you know, the eat, drink, compete kind of narrative is very uh Busters-esque, shall we say. Um, for me, this is a spaghetti moment because they have got a bit of everything in their facilities. We've been able to uh start seeing uh examples of some of the products they're putting in their facilities. Uh they put stuff in from our friends at conduct our game vault, uh, they've put stuff in from 501. So there is the augmented darts, there is uh the illuminated bowling, uh some new, some old, some interesting. And as you can see, they do have a working website.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Yeah, they do. And look, as I mentioned, they enter your email to get notified about more information. Um, so that's all I was looking for. You don't have to do too much more than that. Give me a little bit of an experience and um of what you're going to have in your rooms, and then give me a place to sign up for more information. But anyway, yeah, I mean this is as we talked about an open and shut, uh, basically looks like a um an advertisement for 501 games and you know, 501 fun and conductor. It's like they got together, they formed a joint partnership, said, Hey, can we put all of our stuff in here? Um, and then that's what they did. But uh yeah, I mean, it look, it this is at least solving for one of the things we we talk about a lot on you know, this and then also on um open and shut is having one concept has an is an issue when it comes to repeat visitation. Here is a place where we can go and I can go with my friends and we can compete multiple different things. And look, the shuffle board isn't available. Well, they've got the mini golf, the mini golf isn't available. Let's go do an escape room. And so we can go back regular times. And so while it does feel like they're just throwing everything at the wall, they are at least providing multiple options for guests to come and experience on a regular repeat basis.
SPEAKER_00:Let's hope that they have learned the lessons of what other companies who've just thrown everything at the wall and hopes that it sticks, that uh uh the guest experience and the guest progression through the facility and what they can play and what they can't play and how much time they want to allocate has been thought through. Uh the guest journey is something that I spend a lot of time on on new projects, making sure that you don't overload the guest. Uh, in many cases, too much is a bad thing. Uh so it's hard to get the right mix. Uh but we will see. Uh, and uh hopefully by the time uh let's see, after I Alpa we'll get a chance to walk around the facility and uh get some feedback on what it is, but be prepared for more of these stealth warehouse announcements in the uh coming weeks. One that we touched upon on open and shut uh a uh in the Netherlands, a particular company has developed a concept uh which was originally for an outdoor experience, which they've now brought in for competitive socializing. They've opened the first of two facilities. One of the first of these facilities is their outdoor approach, and now they've brought it indoors. Uh, you know, mini golf without the golf. Uh you're now kicking the ball around uh the uh the holes, uh showing your uh short game skills with the ball. Um, my concern here is, you know, we've touched upon it uh that uh it's going to be difficult not uh to fight the urge with some of the players who's just kicking the living hell out of the ball around the facility, and suddenly you're ducking from uh over-exuberant uh children giving it all they can. That said, if this is an interesting concept, it may be a European interesting concept that could roll out much more than maybe it would internationally. But again, the jury's out on this uh until we get more information.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, this follows for me. There, I don't know if you've uh there's a version of golf, like actual, like real golf, that is done with a soccer, you know, football or soccer ball as well. And you just go to golf courses and you play, you know, you play golf on a golf major golf course. So it's just basically shrinking that concept down uh into something that is a little bit unique. I really do worry about how the the robustness of the different obstacles as well. You know, when I look at that one picture you have here with these little pegs sticking up out of the ground, and if I'm kicking a ball hard into one of those pegs, man, I I I don't know how long until that thing breaks off.
SPEAKER_00:How many times can the staff say, don't kick the ball too hard? You know, and frustration will cause people to kick the ball hard as well. So if they don't get that shot, they'll wedd it. Anyway, uh let's judge it after it's had some seasoning of uh actual players, but yeah. Two sports tamement kind of uh platforms uh coming into competitive socializing. Very interesting. Talking about the openings and closings, uh and I'm seeing a pattern uh with the restaurant side or the shall we say, the uh fast casual and uh light casual uh dining sections. The the major brands overextended themselves, and they've been using the current financial conditions to cut back, uh re readdress themselves, cut the dead wood, remove C-suites that aren't performing and restarting themselves. So uh a bad news story that uh TGI Fridays heard fallen into bankruptcy and were closing down, it suddenly turned into a good news story that they uh have been saved. Oh, but it's only uh X number of stores have been saved. You know, we're only keeping of the 80 facilities, we're only keeping 50, or of the 50 sites, uh, we're closing down 36. But the rest are saved. Isn't this a good news story when really what you've done is you've kicked out the licensee because he's um made a mess of everything, you've gone through with a very sharp pencil, uh, the profit and loss of all of these facilities, selected the best ones, got rid of the dead wood or the leases that you don't like in a way, and then you're going to repurpose yourself, relaunch yourself, re uh reposition yourself now. And it's surprise, surprise, the original owners of uh the IP uh or the license that are coming in to save the day, i.e., they're picking up a UK operation uh for pennies on the dollar. Uh and that can be said of Hooters. Uh I've talked about the Hooters brand going through uh the machinations and they're closed down. And then surprise, surprise, uh the franchise has been brought by ex uh uh Hooters uh uh creators or management team founders. Uh and uh also they've uh acquired some of the 200 Hooters. Again, Sharp Pencil found the most profitable ones, the ones that maybe are up to speed, up to code, don't have uh problems with their uh lease uh agreements. Uh and surprise, surprise, hooters will be back, and you're living a little bit off the nostalgia of, oh, I thought they've gone bankrupt, oh, but they're still open, we'll go inside kind of approach, which is another kind of thing to do when you're closing down and then relaunching, hoping that you can uh capture the magic back in the uh bottle, as it were.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. Uh I have a little bit of insight into this. Um, you know, to anyway, be familiar with uh some of the inside um the track here. And uh yeah, I think one of the things that they're really looking to do is to basically take Hooters back to its roots um and try to, you know, again, like it's part of that nostalgia component that we've talked about on the show. And that's really what they're trying to lean into here is hey, look, we we know that this you know worked, then with a certain population, that population is looking for that nostalgia, we believe it can work again.
SPEAKER_00:Excuse me, yeah. As we saw with the tracker barrel situation where they tried to get rid of the nostalgia and then had to pivot quite heavily to get back on it. Uh but thank you for sharing that insight. Brands are important. The one thing about 2025, I think, that we can all take away is how much intellectual property and brands have played a part in this market. Uh, and uh for the build-up for IALPA, we get the stories of the companies that are uh acquiring IP to bring into the uh fidget or the physical market uh and turn into figital experiences. And our friends at Falcons Beyond, known for their work with uh branding and uh facility development and attraction development, have turned to cyberpunk. So uh beginning in the or end of last year, it was LAI Games and their purchase of uh the cyberpunk property to put into their uh eventful uh amusement product. Uh and I know we'll have more about uh to talk about that particular product at IALPA, but uh the cyberpunk brand is strong. Uh, you know, 30 million copies sold worldwide can't be wrong, and so uh it is now going to be turned into an immersive entertainment experience. The concept is going to be fleshed out by Falcons. We still don't know exactly if this is going to be a social entertainment or a live experience. I I put my money on a live walkthrough experience similar to the John Wicks uh experience that we're seeing in area uh 15. But yeah, that's that's we've no knowledge of uh what the final plan is going to be.
SPEAKER_02:This will be really interesting. I mean, Fiatins Beyond has had some really big successes, and then they've had some big failures. And so it'll be really interesting to see how this plays out. And you know, obviously, it also depends location matters. Um, you know, location mattered with one of their big failures, and uh location will matter with whether or not this has success too, depending on the type on the level and fidelity of the experience.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I picked uh picked that picture without thinking uh uh about it. Exactly. Yeah, they they have had successes in the past. Yeah, they they are approved, but like all uh entities in this sector, ups and downs uh is based on experience. Anyways, that's fine.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, coming back after the break, we'll continue with more of the uh business trends. Intercard is the only cashless system designed, developed, and manufactured all under one roof. They introduced cashless technology to the amusement industry and have been leading the way for over 30 years. Cashless system for Intercard increase customer spending, get satisfaction, and boost revenues by up to 30%. Intercard is still proud to be serving the amusement industry. If you are already part of a global family of customers, they hope you will become one soon.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, Intercard. Now looking at the trends and the tech, um we were talking about MR, uh mixed reality and VR. Well, the restructuring has started. I've been alluding to uh this for uh the last six months that uh our friends at Meta were living on borrowed time regarding the proof of uh their pudding, uh, as it were, regarding VR. VR now is uh a term that is treated a little bit uh more concerningly in the consumer sector because consumer crowd firms haven't achieved what they were hoping for. Um, where we are lucky in location-based entertainment to have an audience that is interested in novelty and experiences prepared to try VR in uh bite-sized attractions, uh long-term uh retention of uh VR in the uh consumer sector has proven difficult. And so now the C-suites are being reshuffled. Surprise, surprise, uh, after uh Meta Reality Labs broke itself into the Horizon OS platform content and on the head, head-mounted display and AR glasses development, wearables and content, they've had more restructuring. Uh, we now learn that leaders from uh those divisions have been pushed on to other aspects of the company, uh working on their AI platforms for Meta. Um, at the same time, uh, we're also seeing that the Horizon OS, which was meant to be a VR and MR platform software environment or firmware that would be able to be licensed by other companies to be put into their headsets, is now being broken into its own profit center. And that usually means that it's proven harder to uh galvanize that operation than uh was originally intended. And the metaverse side of uh the business is being separated even more. Uh you know, Meta will never admit failure, but uh you know I wouldn't be surprised if uh old yellow is taken out the back of uh the uh the the barn in uh in a couple of months' time. As their CTO said at the beginning of the year, this was a make or break period for them if they couldn't prove uh uh that their path was going in the right direction. That said, rumour on the street is that uh Meta has now started the process of competing with Samsung and competing with Apple uh towards creating their mixed reality, or as Apple calls it, their spatial computer system. So rather than the full VR rigs that we uh had been seeing pushed through the Quest series, we're now going to be uh seeing maybe 2027, the rumor on the street is a Apple Vision Pro competitor, a Galaxy XR competitor, though they may find coming late to that particular race may bring its own problems.
SPEAKER_02:This just this is a company meta in general that just can't really seem to figure out what its long-term vision is. I understand they want to build super intelligence, that's the big push now, but yet they're still playing around with this. They're they're not I mean, these guys aren't Google, they're not alphabet, they they don't do a great job at spinning up you know things in other businesses and spinning out other businesses and coming up with unique concepts. Uh, this is this is a this is a company that struggles with its identity and really what it's around here on the planet to do.
SPEAKER_00:They were sold a vision of what VR could be, and it didn't achieve that. The sunk cost uh cost fallacy seems to be writ large here that they won't admit that they may have uh been sold snake oil, that they may have uh overhyped and over-egged. They are getting high on their own supply. Many people who follow my writing and my observations know that I was very uncomfortable with the acquisition of uh Oculus by Meta. And, you know, I told you so doesn't really cut it for the people who are losing their jobs or have brought into this vision only to be let down. This isn't good. Uh let's hope that this latest reshuffling leads to a proper reshuffling because I know that there's one more twist of the knife that is uh going to come before the end of the year, which we will have to wait uh for that to be revealed. We touched upon Cosm uh and how they've done their deal with the NBA, and then surprise, surprise, we also hear that the Apple Vision Pro uh is also doing a deal with uh sports uh to start doing live uh sports uh presentations. Now, from those in the know, uh media consumption is the only saving grace on this$3,000 face warmer uh that is the Apple Vision Pro. Uh the productivity stuff didn't materialize, the killer app didn't materialize, but people talk about the experience of watching films and video uh and sports on the system as being compelling, not killer, but compelling, and so Apple is pivoting hard on this. Though, as I said at the beginning, I feel the battle lines are being drawn against how much of a wow do you get watching the NBA on your Apple Vision Pro, hoping that the game doesn't go over uh one hour and 90 minutes, uh, compared to sitting down in the comfy lazy boy and having hot and cold running alcohol uh from the Cosm uh experience. These are the questions that need to be asked because, from uh the license or's point of view, the film, the content, the sports channel, if they have a relationship, they're going to have to pick one or the other in many cases. In this particular case, they uh the MBA is big enough to pick both, but yeah, uh it may be an experiment to put it onto a spatial computing system that only has a few thousand users compared to a few thousand every couple of hours visitors to uh a Cosm facility. But again, we're getting ahead of ourselves, but this is a line in the sound that I think we need to witness.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think it's interesting. I mean, after this feels to me more like a grasp for life for the Apple Vision Pro, trying to find again, you can talk about content, trying to find the content that's going to drive people to spend the you know several thousand dollars to buy the Apple Vision Pro and strap it onto your head to watch a game. Um, I don't know that uh why I would want to watch a game from my home on my Apple Vision Pro versus my TV. I can see why I would want to go to Cosm versus watch something at home, but why would I make the choice to watch Apple Vision Pro versus the big TV with the full audio that I have available to me in my home where I can actually sit next to friends and talk with them on my own couch? That seems to me that you know, this is if I'm gonna be watching something maybe on the plane uh through my Apple Vision Pro, okay, maybe that's a better experience than watching it on my phone. Um, you know, that's attached to the back of the thing. But you know, anyway, I think this just seems to be a grasping at straws for Apple to try to validate their product.
SPEAKER_00:They are looking for validation and Nobby Nomates, who owns one of these Vision Pros, doesn't have any friends. Uh, so it's it's he doesn't have to worry about no no. Jokes aside, it it is a grasp uh and a very obvious one. And I think at some point in time, Apple like Meta are going to have to admit uh the some cost uh cost fallacy over this one. Talking, well, we're in build up for uh IALPO and continuing the branding and IP uh and also some unique takes. I just grabbed a couple. The press releases are flooding in. As I sit here, I'm being inundated with even more press releases. Why our industry has waited for the last minute to uh uh flood us with announcements for the show rather than spread it out over October. We will have to find out. But a lot of these companies have gone through new marketing and media representatives, so maybe uh they know something we don't. Anyway, our friends at Sager Amusement International, they have a couple of uh interesting surprises up their sleeves. A lot more will be revealed uh at the show, but uh in the build-up, we have Skee Ball fused with mini golf. Putt it party. Okay. The guys have been staying up on the branding. It's looks very interesting, and I think it's got a very strong social, competitive social uh bent to it, excuse me. Uh, we we look forward to trying it out at the show, how well the putting approach to uh ski ball works. Um ski ball has a trick to it, a knack to it, uh the length of the uh the runway, uh, and if you know your ski balls, how to do the deflection shot to always get into uh the center is one of those things that is appealing to skee ball, that you can show skill in it. Uh and it'll be interesting to see if uh this putt-it has uh the same kind of level of engagement.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, the only thing I'll say, because I do want to check this out at IAPA Expo and you know, play it myself. Uh, I do like the fact that they are synced and they are linked together. So you do have uh you can compete um together or you can play on your own as uh you know, so that is a nice additional component here. But uh, you know, the thing that we were talking about with kicking the ball at mini golf, uh at you know, the version of minigolf that's um striker. Um but uh you know, what are you gonna do here? You know, just whack the ball as hard as possible and you know, wonder how long until you know the screen in the back breaks. And I know it's protected screen, uh, but you know, how long until something breaks?
SPEAKER_00:We should see. Sega uh have licensed uh toy brands before. Uh Bopet will be familiar to many of you, and uh the latest entry into incorporating a toy brand uh nostalgia, going back to what we were saying earlier, uh firing up the audience. Simon, now I talked about this last sound-off of who are you aiming these new redemption products at? And those that remember Simon will be of a certain age, uh, or they will be uh the Gen X, sorry, the Gen Zers and the Millennials who've uh like the nostalgia bed. Uh, but that isn't your normal target audience for redemption products. So it's clear that this Simon uh uh infused uh arcade game is aiming at that market and is showing uh Sega's spin, I would say, uh towards targeting branded products that also are a zeitgeist for their key audience of players.
SPEAKER_02:This this one is weird to me because um this is not at all the implementation that I would have expected with a partnership with Hasbro for Simon. Um I'm I'm actually a little bit disappointed with it. Um there's any number of things they could have done to have a uh take a ball and throw it at a digital screen game. Like there's any number of ways they could have implemented that type of gameplay. And uh because we've seen them, they've they exist out there. I was really hoping that this was actually related to the some of the similar gameplay to the Simon game, where I got more redemption points depending on how well I actually followed the pattern. And um, and then other people were able to watch that right on the back screen versus just throw balls randomly at whatever's lit up. Like that to me is like why why spend all the money licensing Simon in order to just throw balls at a lit up screen and have nothing to do with the actual Simon gameplay at all? Um, and so this is a little bit disappointing because I was actually really excited about this when I heard it, and then was like immediately disappointed when I just saw it was a ball throwing game.
SPEAKER_00:Kathy, I I'm not the target audience, and so uh I I understand what they've done, and I think the uh to paraphrase what you're saying is good IP badly utilized. Um, I would argue was it an IP looking for a home or a home looking for an IP? Did our friends in China have uh this kind of machine layout blinged to perfection and it was easy to just pivot it and turn it into a Simon rather than a down the clown? I, you know, I'm not gonna read too much into it. I'm gonna uh speak to the RD team uh at Sega just to get a little bit more of an idea, try and get into their brain size with this. I wouldn't be surprised if this is not the first of many applications of this IP into our market. Uh and you know, Hasbro and Nattel are very canny when it comes to deployment. And I wouldn't be surprised that this product hasn't tested well while it's been on location test. So again, there's going to be a lot more to this than just uh uh disappointment, I think. Our friends at LAI Games suddenly announced that they're going to have about five new products at the show. Um the list is there. Um, you know, information is limited. Uh again, we will talk more about it at the show. I am looking forward to getting into the All-Stars VR system because I've been hearing some interesting stories about uh the product. Um, and it's important that we understand uh exactly where LAI is positioning their product lineup. You'll be noticing that they're going for a certain type of product release recently uh compared to in other years where they were very heavy redemption. Uh a new name, but again, more IP and more branding utilization. So NERF, uh another toy brand, uh, has been given the treatment, and where we were kind of skeptical about the implementation of uh ball throwing at holes without a digital screen. Well, we've got the flip side of that. We've got ball throwing at a digital screen uh based upon the uh the success of the Nerf property. Don't know too much about the game, uh, how much the screen interacts with this. We already have the Nerf Live Experience or the Nerf Gaming Experience as a location-based entertainment facility project. Um, so it's interesting to see Nerf now thrown into the amusement market. And our friends uh uh Tocata have uh also uh licensed Pokemon, a very important uh important brand. Uh they've uh applied it to two types of redemption, uh video redemption product, as well as licensing a video game uh property, uh Fall Guys. If you haven't played Fall Guys, it's uh uh you know a physics-based uh um competing game, uh very fun to play, and they've created a kind of active entertainment version of that where you jump on the pad and control your character on stream. I am interested about these IPs being brought to the amusement side because it's now showing that even the mid-sized uh amusement developers are now embracing branding IP uh towards uh supporting their position.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and you know, Takata Gaming is uh they've they've obviously focused primarily on gaming initially, and they've recently moved into the amusement and redemption component. And uh almost every single one of their amusement and redemption pieces, beyond the ones that we just talked about here, the ones that have been out on the floor for a little while, are zombie snatchers, Tommy Wonder Waterfalls. Like these are uh you know, almost everything they do has some sort of IP component to it.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. Rub uh IP onto uh an okay game and uh you make a fantastic game, I think is uh the mentality that some people have. Is that how that works? Yeah, they were. Uh the the movement towards the embracing of the nostalgia of amusement and retro continues at a pace in the consumer talks. Sector, uh basic fund known for their keychains and uh uh mini cades and uh uh also their merch products, they have uh launched their arcade classic ultra series, arcade classic retro ultra series. Uh and it is going away from the one-up arcade uh of the mini uh relatively furniture size but mini implementation of uh classic retro game now creating bar tops. Uh I would I would call these uh size systems for home usage that come with multiple games uh and have some thality to uh the core game that they're supporting in the design of the the cabinetry. Uh it's interesting to see this. And again, it makes me unhappy that this is not something that we in the amusement sector are jumping on board and supporting and uh rolling into our own mix, but it still shows how uh bankable retro arcade still is in the market. And then finally, really, uh uh a uh a warning to facility operators, story that hasn't got a lot of coverage. I don't know if it's because it's in uh an Australian story or if it's a little bit of an uncomfortable story in the current climate. But what do you do during the downtime winter period uh uh at your theme park or water park if you haven't uh, you know, if you close for the season, you've got that empty parking lot going begging. Well, if you happen to know a Chinese electric car manufacturer that's shipping new products into the country and they need a parking space to uh leave these cars temporarily for um uh while they build up their supplies, then hey, that's money's in. You you're utilising uh your empty parking lot. And as soon as you get ready to open for the season, these cars will have gone. No. Oh dear. They've just created one of the most expensive uh electronic uh electric car parking spaces in Australia. The Chinese electric car company's products were not as good as was hoped, and so they couldn't get rid of them, so the company went bankrupt and has left all of those cars there. Let's hope that the hot weather in Australia doesn't cause those things to self-explode. Sometimes doing a deal will with the devil will bite you in the bum.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I feel so bad at some level. Like, you know, they're just trying to find ways to make additional revenue with some of the land they have that's underutilized. And uh this is probably not anywhere on their SWAT analysis as a potential threat when they made this deal. And it's funny and it's not, uh, but I do feel bad for them.
SPEAKER_00:I am concerned about the number of electric uh electric cars that are being manufactured, that they're never get used because they're either slopped uh or dangerous or the company goes bankrupt before they can get momentum going. That's a waste of resources, but also it is now a chemical uh danger at that location because you you know, uh sadly, uh uh CV cars have a problem sometimes of self-combusting. So it's gonna be a haschem situation. Um, we wish the park operators well that they come up with a solution uh to uh get back to normality. Maybe they should start up a dealership. Anyway, quickly going through the AI news and uh the latest of the legal ramifications gets pushed forward. Uh a judge has allowed certain authors to actually start legal proceedings against open AI for the uh infringement of their copyright in the large language learning training data that was used to create their AI. Um I think now that a judge has allowed this, that uh OpenAI will try and settle this out of court as fast as possible and try and nip this in the bud. But as I talked about the Disney uh legal attack against the Chinese AI platforms, the uh the the wagons are beginning to circle around these companies on how they've created their data, as well as at the same time of writing this, uh, we're learning that uh there's also some questions about the financial validity of some of these companies based on their expectations. Uh yeah. And then, of course, we had uh the big hype uh over NEO. Uh this was the robot that was, you know, for 20,000 buckaroonies or a 500-monthly stipend. You could have a robot come in and uh fail to properly do dishwasher door closings or fridge openings. It it was very badly ripped by the internet uh after the Wall Street Journal uh expose. I don't think they did it as an expose. They were, you know, they but you know, taking three minutes for uh a robot to be able to put one item in a dishwasher and close the doors was embarrassing. And then we learned the big truth that it wasn't an autonomous robot, but it is what we're now seeing happen more commonly. It was a techno slave inside the system, it was a telepresence operator that's going to be wandering around your house as a robot looking at everything, uh, unless you buy the sorry, if you add the package of having your faces blurred for the operator. And of course, you know, hey, you've got to allow us to use a teleoperator at first because we need the data to learn for the algorithm. You know, hey, you're a beta tester. Please give us your$20,000. I'm I'm very dismissive with this. I'm very concerned that we're seeing teleoperators being snuck into these packages and being caught out, as we found out with Amazon Fresh. Oh, you know, it's uh fantastic AI. Oh no, it's people in India looking at the camera footage. Oh no, it is a self-operating robot. Oh no, there's a man behind the curtain. And here we have this. We had it with the Tesla robot, and now we're having it with this. Uh, and I think we're gonna have to have a crisis moment about how we name uh and shame these products that are using human operators. They have to admit it at the beginning. And we also know if we're going to become the guinea pigs in these systems, then you know, don't charge us full price and hope that you can live off of our free data.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, especially given the fact that they've been uh getting$200 deposits for every single you know, for these, you know, who knows how many of these deposits have been paid with the expectation that these are going to start rolling out for delivery in early 20 uh early 2026. And uh and then to find out that, oh, wait, this thing is actually going to be operated by a human. Um, you know, and look, these things happen all the time when they're doing early showcases and they're trying to pitch their thing, it's not fully ready for for production, but they want to show it on stage to try to get in investor interest, etc. Like this is what vaporware has been for years, right? So uh you have this, but but this is uh but if this is going to be how they actually operate this thing in your home, yeah, that is an that is an issue, and uh and is a deal and is a company killer potentially, depending on how bad this press is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I think they're teetering at this moment in time. They're going to have to do some damage limitation, and their uh European CEO's charms are going to have to be in full flow to uh try and rectify the situation. Maybe uh some more time in the oven, maybe a test project where they use human uh operators, uh telepresence operators, uh, on a test scheme and then migrate towards the autonomous system. Maybe the only way to salvage the situation. But again, a black eye for the technology, the next one. Anyway, I've touched on uh a number of subjects there. Hopefully, I haven't put too many of our audience to sleep. If you have any information you want to pass on, please uh hit me up on LinkedIn or give me an email, and please stay up to date with the latest Stinger report. And well, as the uh latest uh entertainment social arena, we have a new one out uh already. And we've got uh, of course, the build-up to uh IALPA and the other shows that are taking place in its shadow uh to report upon. Hopefully I've covered everything there, Brandon.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, I think so. There's gonna be so much to cover in just uh in just two weeks after IAPA, but uh until then, Kevin, I'll see you in just a few days.
SPEAKER_00:See you in a few days.
