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LBX Collective
The LBX Show #61 - Barry Zelickson Guest Gab, LBE vs FEC Debate, & more!
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Sponsored by Alan-1!
On this week's show we unpack Area 15’s phase two expansion, then go deep with Fun Across America's Barry Zelickson on how IAAPA Brass Ring FEC/LBE of the Year awards are decided and what sets finalists apart. The back half tackles LBE category confusion, market openings with Kevin Williams, and the ruthless math of pricing and relevance.
• Area 15 phase two and three expansions
• Why Miniso at Area 15 prompts curation questions
• How judges score FECs and LBEs across operations, tech and brand
• Hupalupa’s multi-zone design and digital wayfinding
• Spy Ninjas HQ’s IP-led differentiation and fruit slicing rage room
• Hall You Need’s BitPong and premium social play
• Debating LBE categories: wheel, museum, escape rooms
• Openings: shuffle, darts, VR, casino mini golf, nightlife hybrids
• Naming and SEO pitfalls that hurt discovery
• Pricing discipline, time limits and avoiding undercharging
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With your host, Brandon Wyatt, Profit Product, brought to you by the LBX Collective, Collective Director.
SPEAKER_00:All right. Well, welcome everybody to the LBX show for January 25th, 2026. We have a really good show lined up for you today. So first we're going to dive right into a brief news you should know. And then we're going to roll right into a guest gab with Barry Zelixon. He is the former IAPA brass ring top FEC of the world winner for IAPA. And he is also the founder of Funacross America. We've had him on before. We've talked about Fun Across America. It's funacrossamerica.com. And they go around and they like check out all these other cool like places and they do little videos on them and they post them on YouTube and everywhere else. And so that's Funacross America. And then he's also a current FEC committee member for IAPPA and also this uh judge for the Brass Ring Awards this year for their uh FEC Awards. And so we're gonna be discussing this year's round of finalists for the top FEC LVE Awards. We announced what they were on the show last week, and so now we're gonna just dig into them and just touch on each one a little bit further. And then to close us out, we're gonna hear from Kevin Williams with Open and Shut to review all the latest openings and very few closing trends from this last week. So with that, we'll dive right into News You Should Know. All right. Well, so we really only have one thing to talk about on News You Should Know this time, and this is that Area 15 in Las Vegas has continued to sign more tenants for its expansion into phase two. Also, there's a beginning to move and plan for their expansion into phase three. So they began in phase two with announcements with uh the Universal's horror unleashed, the John Wick experience, and Interstellar Arc, but they've assigned a few new tenants that they are bringing on, which is gonna actually be a total of 12 new experiences that are all due to open at Area 15 in 2026. So I know we're gonna be there in coming up in just a couple of weeks at Amusement Expo. A couple of weeks, yeah, it's kind of like six weeks. So Amusement Expo is like about six weeks from now. And um, and I'm certainly planning to go to Area 15 to check out John Wick, Universal Horror Unleashed, Interstellar Arc, and all the other stuff that they've got there. So I'm taking actually probably a whole extra half day to just make sure I spend some time and check out some of these new attractions in Area 15. But some of the new ones that they you know mentioned here is uh so formerly there's a place called Lane Park in Scottsdale, Arizona, right? Right up my uh right up in the uh my my backyard. And this Lane Park is now called House Rules. They rebranded it actually in Scottsdale as well. And so we'll throw this up here on stage just briefly so you can just take a look at you know what's going on here and play. And if you if you are not listening, if you're just listening, you can go to house the houserules.com, uh which is actually a great URL. And it's a kind of an interesting little mix of like different party games, what we like to call quote unquote yard games, but then they actually have a full-size curling, uh, they have Chrome boards, they have uh, you know, again, all bunch of different things, and then great, obviously F and B. And so they call themselves Scottsdale's Premier Competition Bar. So I thought that's a really interesting, like they're calling it literally a competition bar. That's actually one of the first places I've heard where like they're using that as part of their tagline and part of their branding. And so they're opening a house rules up in Area 15. So this is going to be opening there, and then they're also opening a place called Mini Sew. And now this isn't necessarily my MO, uh, but Mini Sew is a retail environment where you can basically get a bunch of different uh retail items uh that have like a bunch of different brands. So like they have Zootopia, little plushies and animals and stuff, and you know, they've got different little mini experiences. I would I wouldn't call them like all the way in the far camp side. They're kind of like really just like a retail environment that's kind of cutesy and whatever. I don't really get it. Again, it's not my thing. I don't need to like, I'm not a laboo-boo guy. Um, but you know, whatever. Like they have all different, they have a bunch of different one piece items here, which you can see, like different pillows and things. And so they're adding a mini sew outlet there. And uh what's really interesting is like you think that okay, mini so like typically what uh what Area 15 has tried to bring in are unique attractions. And what really threw me here is that uh MiniSo has 7,000 stores around the world. So this isn't something that like maybe it's the first one in Las Vegas. Okay, that's fine. I just didn't think that this is something I would end up seeing at Area 15. It feels like they're just looking for tenants at some level, and so they decided to do this. And so, anyway, it's a little bit uh you know disappointing to me if you uh if you ask me um that they're gonna bring in something like Mini So that just doesn't seem to be super unique. Um, but look, whatever. They uh have different IP collaborations with Disney, Marvel, and Harry Potter, et cetera. And so, all right, that's fine. You know, they're also gonna have some other FB outlets uh coming. So one of them is called The Bowl, which is kind of really interesting. I'm looking forward to this. Uh, it's a new concept, which it basically features state-of-the-art robot chefs that cook food in front of the guests. So you actually get to watch the robot work, a little bit like Tony, the cocktail robot that you get at Sandbox VR and you've seen it a few other places. Um, they're also gonna have the largest ever museum of ice cream. I think we've already covered the fact that they're launching the museum of ice cream. What I didn't realize is that it is the largest museum of ice cream around the world. And apparently it's gonna have the first ice cream buffet. It's also gonna have ice cream themed hotel suites attached to this. And then obviously, their their famous sprinkle pool and pink party bus and everything else. Uh, they're gonna add an iFLY indoor skydiving as well. And so look, Area 15 is getting packed. And I thought the quote that was really interesting to me is uh this is from Winston Fisher, the CEO of Area 15. And the quote he says is quote, Area 15 is designed to surprise people every time they walk through the door. So these new additions deepen our reputation as a place where discovery never stops. So I didn't know that that was their main purpose originally. I thought they had a whole different vibe, like going with the original Area 15, but you know, apparently they've evolved their vision to be a place where discovery never stops. Um, now that would be actually a really interesting tagline if they could actually use that and put that on their marketing. I haven't seen that actually in any of their marketing yet, but there's definitely the vision there where they want people to have something new every time that they show up at Area 15. So they are clearly doing that with all these new additions, and we will certainly get to see more when we go to Amusement Expo and check that out. All right, well, that wraps up news you should know. Coming up right after this is Get Gab with Barry Zelixon. InnerCard is the only capital system designed, developed, and manufactured all under one roof. They introduced cash flow technology to the industry and have been leading the way for over 30 years. Cash system to InnerCard increased customer spending, debt satisfaction, and boost revenues by up to 30%. Intercard is total property industry. If you are already part of a global family of customers, they hope you will become one too. All right, Barry. Well, welcome to Guest Gab on the LBX show. Good to good to see you again, even though it's virtual. Good to see you in a couple of weeks.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, in a couple of weeks we'll be I'll be in your neck of the woods. I'm excited for that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so um, all right. Well, we're here to obviously talk about the IAPPA FEC finalists. Um, you know, IAPA, you know, I guess what FEC of the Year now, they're not doing world anymore. They used to do you. You were an FEC of the world recipient. Um but uh but I guess now it's just FEC of the Year. So there we go.
SPEAKER_05:Well, yeah, and and but they added the whole category. You got the LBE and the FEC, so it's expanded.
SPEAKER_00:They did add the whole category, and and I was uh I was uh part of that chaos. Um and uh so we were not gonna go into the full history of that necessarily, but um we will talk about the LBE and you know maybe we'll talk about what actually qualifies as an LBE. So we'll you know we'll see. But before then, let's jump into the different the um uh the different FEC finalists. So we've got Hoopaloopa Istanbul. So you were actually, you know, obviously a judge for the FECs, I don't know if the LBEs, but uh a judge for the FEC finalists. Um and so we'd love to like, you know, as we talk about each one of these, and you know, and Hoopa Lupa, I'll pull up their site here in just a minute, but you know, what are what are some of your thoughts around like what like in your mind, what qualifies as a as a like good solid finalist for for this award?
SPEAKER_05:Well, you know, it's it's interesting for judging, it it's hard for people to get a sense on the judging of of how you look at a facility because the criteria is pretty extensive for what you need to do to apply. And as a judge, you you get a whole presentation from each of the facilities. So it's not like you're just looking at a website or you know, they they they have a whole list of requirements that they have to submit. And so you're compare, you know, you're comparing uh each one of those to all those elements. So there isn't really you know a particular one element or or or another that would drive one to the top. And there are some very fine distinctions as you get it when you start adding the scores up because you you grade each each area on a on a on a number scale, and then obviously it totals up at the end and and you see where your your elements uh line up. And I you know, for myself going through it, I usually go through once, through them all once, and then you know go through them again because obviously your judgment changes as you start to go through in each category. But I mean, you know, it's everything from you know their logo and entrance sign all the way down to what they do for for you know from marketing campaigns to sustainability. So it's a pretty extensive uh element. So, you know, the element on these, I mean, if obviously when you go look, like you'll see certain elements like Hoopa Loopa. If you pulled up their site, one thing I know you talk about, again, they have a map on their site, and you talk about websites where you can actually click on and see a little video of the attraction. I mean, they've done some really nice things to get you engaged to know what to to experience there. When you go through their sites and it's probably it's you know, they have a few locations, but the the the one in Israel, yeah, so like and where those little you know globes are, you click on one of those, and it'll give you a whole little experience of that particular attraction, which you know I thought was was very well done. Um and and I mean it's a massive part. I mean, you can see the variety of entertainment and activities, but with in comparison and going through them, like I said, you have they have to present everything from videos to you know write-ups on each of the areas as long as through their campaigns they do as far as what they do in the community. And it's all those elements added together that lifted, you know, well, our finalists up to where they are. And and again, it it it it could be just a point off to put you from the finalists to to the next level based on you know on how close things can come.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and obviously there's more than one judge also. So you're not the exclusive judge, there's a whole channel of judges, and they do rotate. Um, and they're they are like, you know, there's a a I think just a general list of of judges that are out there um that have done things in the past that are former committee members, former operators, MNS. It does, it is quite a variety. I was just suggesting it's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_05:And from around the globe, too. Like you said, and everyone has their own opinion and will look at things differently. And and what at the end, just to continue the press, once you we all vote and put them in, we actually have a separate call to go through them and and see if you know everyone can make their little pitch for wherever they think you know it is to see if you can if anything's worth you know moving up or moving down, or if something was overlooked. So, I mean, it's a pretty extensive process, not only to enter, but also um from the reveal process.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And you know, I thought that this was an interesting one. I mean, again, like that's it's all does depend on who has submitted, right? So they have to go and they have to fill out their application. So it's not like you know, the the IAP FEC committee is going out and like looking at every single FEC out there and selecting the ones they think. It's okay, who actually submitted? And so it is out of the overall applicant pool. Um, but yeah, I thought Hoopaloopa was uh was pretty interesting. Um there has some really great things about their site and then some really other like non-functional and usable things about their site or whatever. Um, but their space, like the actual different attractions that they have, are um, you know, it's it's got a really interesting mix. They have, you know, trampoline parks and climbing walls for like more active play. They they call their little thing mini play, they have a kid venture, um, but then they also have like just more classic FEC attractions like bowling, video and simulation games, right? And uh, you know, a number of things.
SPEAKER_05:It is definitely uh all-encompassing multi-zone play experience, is what is what they put together. And and and again, I think they they've they it's large, they did a nice job to map it out and provide that information and I said from all the campaigns. And it's it's not even just you know, we we look at all the attractions they have and we we look at, you know, uh again their facility and everything from the bathrooms all the way to you know what I mentioned campaigns, but it's also the technology. What technology are they using? You know, how how are they are they doing anything from a from a loyalty standpoint, all the different elements to bring into this park to make it user-friendly and drive their attendance? And and that's all spelled out, you know, pretty detailed in what they submit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um, so I've been curious because you know, we also have the the next one that's on the list here is Spy Ninja's HQ. And so we've got a little video playing for those who are just listening to it. It's uh just kind of rolling around in the background. By the way, I love the fruit ninja. Um I guess they're calling it like the fruit ninja or the fruit chopper because they can't call fruit ninja, right? Because that's copyright uh rage room that they have, but they've got a really interesting, like quasi-active play, but yet at the same time they have axe throwing and some escape rooms and stuff.
SPEAKER_05:It's really coming, and it's a unique facility in its own right. I mean, one you look at how it came to be. I mean, Spine Ninjas has a has a huge social media following. I think combined with all their channels, they have 40 million followers. So they have a huge base that they built up. And this was actually a studio that they the building they bought and then could converted it to use this space as this entertainment center. So the way it came to be is incredible. But it you know, you talk about what do you look at when you're looking at facilities. The the the fruit the fruit range room is a perfect example. I've seen, you know, for we travel around, obviously, as you know, looking at a lot of facilities, you know, we see a lot of different range rooms. I've never seen a fruit range room. I mean, so you know here's something that's taken some, you know, what you've seen at other locations and put their own spin on it and and really made it make a difference. And you know, those are types of things that help elevate someone to the top because it's it's not they're just not putting in the same type of thing, they're putting their own mark on it. And I and another thing, I and I don't know if they show you you can see, but even their bathroom signs are, you know, they do fun designs. I mean, it's just a lot of little things that they did to help make that place stand out um different. Um not that they don't have a lot of attractions that others have, but it's just they they did put their own mark on them, which which really does make a difference.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. And you know, they're they were consistent with some of their overall I'm I'm not gonna call it theming, but their but their branding and their colors and everything else throughout the whole facility as well. Like, you know, obviously being in Vegas, I've had a chance to visit here. And it's uh it's a very interesting layout as well, like where how everything is kind of structured. It's a little bit disjointed at some level.
SPEAKER_05:Well, and even as you mentioned, I mean, if you go upstairs, you've got the retro, I mean, it it's a little disjointed in how these things maybe play together. But I mean, yeah. If you're since they're drawing different audiences, I imagine it separates them so it keeps them. You can go be in your own space and not be interacting with all the younger kids and other things are going on in other areas. So there's probably some sense to it. I mean, I and I and I along those lines, but they like I said, they they've done a really nice job to your point on brand. And again, you know, obviously they they started as a brand, so it's a little different than than most in some in some instances.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And obviously the guy, the you know, the main guy here in the video, too, he's one of the main people in there, you know, for for the spine ninjas. Um, and so like he's a well-known entity. And so, yeah, it's it's just nice when you can have that type of name brand recognition.
SPEAKER_05:Uh but it's but but to your point, it wasn't just putting their name on something. They actually took it and and thought it through and made some creative differences, you know, because a lot of people can just put their name on a on a similar attraction. They took it to a next level.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, totally agree. Um, all right. So the next and last FEC finalist is the Hall You Need, which I thought was an interesting play on words. Also a really great video uh, you know, up at the top of their of their facility. Um, I would like to have seen more of it, uh, of their facility through this fly through, but uh it gives you a good sense for the type of stuff that they have here. Um, you know, they've got uh this is by the way, I also really like the fact that this is, I think, one of the first times where all three finalists are actually uh there's only one in the United States, the other and two others, you know, one in France and obviously one in Turkey. Um, and so yeah, I thought that was really cool as well. Um, but yeah, for here we've got uh you know, bowling, karaoke, rooms, shuffle board, which is like a gamified shuffle board. I'm not sure exactly if they're using shuffling or something, or conductors, game vault, um, electric shuffle, uh, or not electric shuffle, um, supercharged shuffle. Um and then you've got uh blind test, which is like a really interesting like music quiz. I thought they had some really interesting attractions.
SPEAKER_05:Exactly. And this is the same thing. There were some different spins on things that that were a little unique and different. The facility was beautiful. I mean, they really put some, you know, a lot of detail into that. And again, like I said, a lot of things you can't see from you know from what we're talking about is the behind the scenes, all the elements they do to create to drive you know their business and build their brand through their marketing and through their community and and the technology they use to drive all that, all those elements add to what brings elevates something to this level.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, I wanted to call one thing out specifically here, because obviously we talked about line test, which is a type of like music trivia game I've never heard of before or never played. I might just be have my head in the sand. Um, but they had a a new attraction called BitPong. And this from what they're at least saying is uh saying on their site that they were the first location to actually use BitPong um and implement this in their facility. And Bitpong actually is a uh comes from Germany. There, um I'll go ahead and flip over here.
SPEAKER_05:So this is an interesting new game of I've I've seen it online, I've not seen it in person, but I've certainly seen the product. But it is the first facility I've seen it in as well, just in in uh, but I have not seen it live, obviously, either.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and in in as far as I know, like at least right now, anyway, on their site, they debuted it in 2024 only at IAPA Expo Europe. I haven't actually seen it at the main Orlando Expo.
SPEAKER_05:And I didn't see it this year either.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, really interesting. Because then you can only right now only pre-order on their site, but clearly um, you know, there's some sort of connection with Hall You Need because they uh they definitely have BitPong available there, and uh the gameplay looks really, really interesting. So um, you know, I would love to learn a little bit more about uh more.
SPEAKER_05:Especially with that movie Marty Supremo now, it's probably gonna have a real draw in it. I would think so, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, I mean I thought Hall You need. Was really interesting and just again, just a really nice looking space. But like maybe you could touch a little bit on how you know it's it's apples to apples as far as like they've all submitted, they have to fill out the same thing as but the facilities are not apples to apples. So you've got active play, you've got this like really big, massive kids space, and you also have like this, then like almost like competitive socializing space.
SPEAKER_05:Um, you know, at some sort of like and that's why I said it's if if you look at it like this, I there's no doubt that's the feeling you would have. But if I just saw these places, like how to even compare. I mean, and that's where the the element which is is hard is going when you're going through the judging process. There are so many elements, and again, people can drop out just because they didn't do the application. There's a lot of people that don't follow the application and don't provide things that you need to get points on. And so, you know, just just or even simple things like they have to take pictures of their team. I mean, you would think we're in the fun business, or you'd think you'd see a lot of happy people. Well, that doesn't necessarily always happen. And you know, it's and you think those are simple things, but all that comes into play when you're adding this up. So it, you know, you rise to the top necessarily, again, it's not comparing place to place, it's comparing their application and how they're it addressing their place to you to help sell you on it. Now, I know some people sometimes people go outside and see their webs or look at their reviews and things of that sort. I tend to I tend to drive mainly on what they provide because that's you know, I can't be there. I think in the past they actually used to send secret shoppers out to the locations. Yeah, they did.
SPEAKER_00:I think it was something I really pushed on when I was the committee chair. Um, and and it it was a the my understanding was that they were going to start doing that again.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and that's that's what again and that's what I hear for next year, as same thing, because I push too. I think you lose a whole element there too, because and again, yeah, I realize it's tough when you stop in a you know, you take us one picture at one time, you're gonna see a certain thing, but it does add a dynamic uh, you know, truth to it. I mean, it's obviously you can dress up anything in a presentation, but even even with that, so many people don't. But uh you know, again, i when you look at it from the standpoint of these elements, yes, they don't look the same, but you they are competing. And we don't discount someone because they don't have a certain attraction or you know, if they don't have redemption, which is what you know, you don't lose points or anything along those lines. Again, it's just as as a whole as a silly, are they hitting all the marks and are they delivering on that end? And so again, you you you necessarily rise to the top because you're hitting more of those than the others. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I want to shift over to talk about the top LVE finalists. I know. These are very different. And you know, I'm I'm excited to have this conversation because I don't know how in the world a uh so FG Big Wheel, which I'm sure is an amazing wheel, how this counts as location-based entertainment.
SPEAKER_05:I I'm diffused. I don't I mean, I I imagine there's elements when you arrive, food and beverage and other things that you can, and probably you know, some sort of uh gift shop and things like that when you arrive there. But uh same thing. I to me that's one large attraction. I don't it doesn't fit at least on what I thought the definition of uh location-based entertainment, which again is a whole nother discussion on how they, you know, as we you mentioned earlier, on how they should be divided, because so many FECs have immersive entertainment in them now. It's it's it's a very gray area on those lines, but it it it does again, it currently it's a category and and and they've these three made it to the top.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And you know, I think even uh a couple of weeks ago on I believe it was sound off, Kevin and I were having the discussion around what the the category should be called, you know, location-based experiences, right? I mean, hey, that's why we are LBX collective, it's location-based experiences and not just entertainment, but that really is the parent. I believe that's the parent category, and family entertainment centers are a subcategory underneath LBE. And I certainly don't see big wheels. These are like typically what what IAPA would call typically, and this is why I'm surprised that it was allowed to be submitted, is this would fall under their small attractions constituency. They actually have an attractions constituency, and this would fall into that. Um so I'm kind of surprised that it made the LBE.
SPEAKER_05:Well, if you say that though, it's it's no different than the Deutschland Museum, they have a whole museum category.
SPEAKER_00:Well, exactly, right? So that brings us to so yeah, that brings us to the second um of the top uh LBE, which is the Deutschland Museum. And uh, you know, look, it's an immersive history walkthrough experience. It looks pretty freaking cool, actually. Yeah, um, I love to see it. It looks amazing. Yeah, but it's a museum, and there is a museum and science center constituency within IAPA. It is not an LBE, right? I mean, it's very like the word museum is in the name. So we cannot argue that this is anything but that, even if they took a very uh immersive interactive experience, which again looks amazing, probably worth being a finalist somewhere. I just don't know that it should be a finalist for the location-based entertainment category.
SPEAKER_05:And again, like I said, that gets into the element, I guess, where it's a fine line or a gray area. I mean, technically that without a doubt, it fits within the providing an immersive uh, you know, experience, which it does. So I mean, depends, you know, you know, you look at the museum and say, yeah, it fits in that category, but it is providing entertainment in that immersive category. I don't know if what else is entailed it. Again, I wasn't part of these of this judging, so I'm I'm not sure, you know, all the elements that came into it, but uh again, like you said, it looks amazing. I it's just you know, maybe the distinction or how these things are defined has to be looked, you know, looked at a little more detail.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and maybe you know, also it could be a a a uh translation difference, right? This being obviously in Germany, and uh you know, it talks about this uh you know unique um you know interactive uh stations and games, uh entertainment experience and entertaining experience, right? So, like, all right, I mean I could you could argue that it is an entertainment destination. It's just for me when the word museum is right there, that that should be at least an immediate disqualifier, um, if if it is in fact a museum versus like an entertainment destination or venue. Not that the two can't be conflated, but I think for the purposes of being the best and top LBE in the you know of the year, that is uh that's that's tough to to do, especially when you have um the last one here, which is 62 escape games, which is like exactly falls within the LBE space and category. And so now you have like what is truly, I think, an LBE going up against a big giant wheel.
SPEAKER_05:Um and and again, you know, we don't know what else was submitted or how many others were submitted, or you know, what what other elements were there to get to these to the top? Obviously, I think they're all worthy attractions and experiences. It's just like you said, are they in the right place and and you know how you know how does that fit? And you know, how did how does it affect others who may have entered, I guess, along those lines.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think this one also was specifically, even though 62 Escape has three different locations. This was specifically the Schaumburg location and just outside of Chicago. This is the one at the Woodfield Mall. Um, you know, I think one of the things that I wish that more escape rooms and escape experiences would do is to actually show like a little bit without giving too too revealing, like give me a sense for what the different experiences are.
SPEAKER_05:It is very hard to, I mean, you know, speaking to someone who goes around trying to film all these places, it it they are, you know, it's the last thing they want to do. Because again, most of these rooms, you know, once you've done them, you know, you you know how it works. And again, even though you say we can show, we can limit what we show, and at least they can see a sense of the because they these rooms are amazing. What these people create are incredible. And uh, you know, it it's a shame they you you can't find a way to help share. And it also I think it hurts them. You know, it's it's it'd be easier to get people engaged if you got more sense of all the amazing things you're gonna see when you arrive.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, oh I I totally agree. I mean, that's that's that's my biggest frustration. Um, by the way, they also have this location anyway, um, also has a what they call their portal mini golf. Um, it looks like pretty well-themed mini golf, uh, you know, mini golf holes. Uh, it's it's you know inside the mall, so you see it through the glass and you can see the mini golf, and so it does look fun. Um, I would only, you know, I I wish that they would um it's just so hard when their their name is actually 60 to escape, and then they have mini golf. You know, it's just hard because people don't know to expect that there's gonna be mini golf there.
SPEAKER_05:And and it's it's probably two different audiences. I mean, you're booking the one and you're just showing up to play the other. So um and they're in a mall. So they're I think they're probably taking advantage of that, you know, walk through traffic is probably the advantage of adding that element, I would guess.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I would agree. Um all right. Well, any any other final thoughts that you've got on the uh on the finalists is anything that is super useful for people to understand you know how how this uh I mean I I would I would just say especially anyone who's who's got a uh a facility, you know, this is a worthy thing to do to enter.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, end of the day, regardless of whether you win or lose, the process of going through this and analyzing your facility is so worthwhile, not just for the owners, but for the team. And and again, winning's great. Don't get me wrong, that's that's a great thing. But uh, you know, even this to me, this should be like an annual thing because you learn so much. It's so easy to get complacent or not just lose sight of the details. And this is a very easy way. And and obviously it's already organized and set up, and a third party to take it to go through and judge, and you get great feedback. So, I mean, I I think it's uh like I said, uh, my one takeaway to anyone you know who's who's got a facility is you know, enter, take the time, it's worth it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, totally agree. It gives you such a clarity around what you are doing. I mean, it just gives you a different um lens to look through um and take a step back or whatever and and really see the forest uh and not just the trees that you're in every single day, to see the different areas where you can improve or just to like see, hey, yeah, look at what we built. This is this is pretty cool. Um, so yeah, I totally agree. All right. Well, Barry, where can uh, you know, if if somebody wants to get in touch, uh, you know, you've got this little thing on you know, fun across America, whatever, something like that.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, some some some channel, fun across America. Yeah, you know, check it out. We visit a lot of facilities. You want us to check you out, reach out. We try, you know, again, there's so many places out there. We do our best to try to find unique and fun places and very different, just like this. You go to our site, you're gonna see a lot of different places that are all very unique and and provide some uh you know great entertainment and most importantly, fun, plus the name. So um, you know, you know, please please give us out. And Brandon, thanks for inviting on to talk about it. I like I said, I I believe you know strongly in this uh FBC of the year and LBE of the year awards. And yeah, I it was a pleasure to be a judge this year to go through it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, thank you so much for taking the time and walking us through it. And uh, you know, those who are not looking at the screen, you can find um you get little glimpses of Barry every once in a while in videos hosted by uh Nate. And uh that is funacrossamerica.com or YouTube. Just go to youtube.com and search funacrossamerica to see all the different cool videos and places that they visit every single year. So Barry, it's been a pleasure. We'll see you on the next guest gap.
SPEAKER_05:All right, sounds good. Take care, Brendan.
SPEAKER_00:Whether it's perfectly fine three, so it's like something like that. This is LDS1.com to the remote. That's L.1.com. All right, well, coming up next, we've got an open and chat with Kevin Williams. Let's roll.
SPEAKER_06:Hey. I think hello to everyone to this latest open and shot. How do we find you, Brandon?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, doing well, doing well. Just uh finally warming up here in this uh crisp, crisp uh morning in Arizona. Or Arizona.
SPEAKER_06:It's a bit chilly here in glorious London, but that is to be expected.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. All right. Well, let's uh yeah, let's jump in.
SPEAKER_06:Well, one thing that uh you'll all notice that there aren't that many. Um this is the kind of the bounce that we see from the Christmas period uh towards the openings. That said, I have quite a few in the February bin about to be uh announced, and quite a large number in the March bin. So I don't expect this small offering to continue, but let's make use of it while we can. And so we jump in straight to the Netherlands and we have a new competitive socializing venue. Sadly, a venue that is so brand new that they depend more on AI artwork than they uh actually uh have real photographs of, but it is what you would expect from a competitive socializing venue, heading more in the electric shuffle kind of style of uh approach. The Grand Chapel uh is obviously uh going to be gamified shuffle boards, though I'm not sure if they're using off the shelf or if they've developed their own.
SPEAKER_00:Well, what's interesting here is in just looking at their site, they excuse me, they say actually elect they call it electric shuffle, which is interesting. I mean, obviously they're calling themselves the Grand Shuffle, but like on their site, their actual gameplay, they're calling Electric Shuffle, which you know clearly isn't, but based on either these images, which are renderings, or like you said, AI, um, although I do think that they're probably more renderings than AI, um, it does look like their own system. Um, it like it I don't recognize the the digital display at the end. Um, you know, the the table looks very unique and different. So I wonder if they have created their own system and they're also calling it electric shuffle. I don't know.
SPEAKER_06:It would be naive of them to think that they can just use the electric shuffle terminology with uh willy-nilly. Uh if they develop their own. Well, this will be very interesting. We need more data.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Moving on, and we have Flat Stick Pub. Now, this is part of a seven facility chain, and this is their latest uh opening uh in Washington, 12,000 square. Um, it is a competitive socializing venue at large. It has got the mini golf in there, uh, it has the amusement in there, but it also has craft beer, so you know, pivoting into the social environment, hospitality, FB with uh the entertainment as the anchor or the glue. It will be interesting to know more about this chain. They hadn't actually appeared on my radar, so uh to get to seven facilities before uh the light started flashing on our database tells me something about that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and you know, this this is um it's interesting. This is not the Woodenville location, this is their uh Redmond location. So, but uh, you know, when looking at their space, they first of all have this really pretty cool map, like you they've done. There's it's a system called I think EVR that does it.
SPEAKER_06:It's a lovely system. I wish more uh venues used it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I mean you can really get a like a good look around. You can see the different things, you know, they have board games available, but I also what I what I liked is they they you know have a big enough space here that's um you know for a little F and V space, but then they do bingo on Wednesday nights. And I think that that is uh you know, again, just trying to create that party atmosphere. And uh, you know, they're they're doing you know, they've got the weekly happenings that you know pop up, and there's all different things you can do. So, anyway, this is a it's a great system that they've create, you know, that they haven't created but they've utilized to give the look around.
SPEAKER_06:Many other venues do, but many venues don't. And I really, really, really wish we could standardize this. It would be nice to standardize the pricing model. It would be also nice to standardize the uh the presentation model if you knew that every location-based entertainment system was using that kind of system, and you could walk to where the mini golf is, and you could virtually water. This is something we've been promising for a long time. I think it just needs the industry to come together and agree that this is what is a lubricant that can help sell. Yeah. Moving on, and the VR sector continues the pace uh with new openings in Turkey for a change. Uh Anvio, if you're not familiar with them, they are both a provider of a turnkey system for franchising. Uh, so you could add a VR component or even a complete turnkey facility component to you, as well as selling uh content to VR arcade uh operators. They claim to have about 41 facilities dotted around Europe, uh, and I think two or three in the US. This is their first Turkish location. Um and uh I'm I'm interested to see that uh from the pictures that they supplied in the launch information that they've gone for, you know, kind of off-the-shelf technology, but uh wrapped in their uh maintenance and uh delivery package.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean they are calling in this specific location one of their largest VR parks that they've uh that they've opened for MBO.
SPEAKER_06:So 900 square meters uh is their largest. I'm interested that uh that is their largest compared to what the normal stars we hear from uh the competitors. You know, uh obviously it is bigger than uh what a six uh um let's see, a sandbox VR uh wouldn't be as big as Evo. Yeah, an Evo, that's a nice one, or even uh zero latency. So yeah, uh it is clear that this Turkish market wanted to have what I would call a mixed uh selection of VR. It's arenas as well as VR games, but again, it shows a company that is proving that VR still has bankability. Moving on, and we have Big Air, um, you know, 19 facilities strong, uh active entertainment operation, and they've parachuted into Texas, Texas, the crowded market. We were just talking about the closing of a uh entertainment trampoline active in Texas. Well, uh showing that there's still life in the beast, uh, the a trampoline park, with their particularly unique branding, can succeed in this market. You know, understand that Big Air is not just about the uh trampoline, they also have amusement party rooms uh and climbing walls. Uh in some some of their venues, they even have some simulators. But again, we're looking at a market that is in transition.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, it still is uh you know, I mean, it's I guess you it's it's the adventure park model, right? So it's got the uh the core. They do have a small arcade at this location. But they also have then a I wonder how often these get used. They have the like a riding bull, like a bowl that'll kick you off. And it shows like a little kid on it. So it's probably fairly, and but I just wonder often how that, you know, how often that gets used. But um yeah, otherwise pretty standard adventure park that they're they're producing now.
SPEAKER_06:Um so once the kids have signed the liability to get into the facility, you could stick them on the bull. I don't often see the bull being added now into active entertainment venues. Um, though the largest number of bull deployments I know about is in Texas. So it may be something to do with the water there. Either way, um it is an active entertainment environment pushing forwards rather than being just wholly a trampoline site.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. The one thing I think that I'll just throw up here real quick is interesting, is they have a max flight, which doesn't seem to fit. It's like they went to IAPA, somebody like the owner did the max flight and said, Well, that's cool. I want that in my facility, and decided to put that in here because it does not fit anything else uh you know across the board, uh, you know, especially uh because it's really is all active entertainment. And the max flight is not easy to you know get a handle of either for for kids. I mean, it really is an adult attraction.
SPEAKER_06:It is primarily a uh older teenager and adult simulator, especially because of its 360 rotational capabilities and the exertion and all of that, the harness system. I would agree with you that it looks like that particular owner has said uh that's interesting, let's put it in there. If you'll notice that venue also had uh some valomotion technology. So uh trying to keep it relevant uh was the order of the day. Uh I think that Big Air is in an interesting position because they don't leverage the trampoline heavy in their uh leveraging the entertainer. I would also be interested to see what their party room business is like.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Continuing. Uh it it just just one last thing while you know while we're talking about this. This is Big Air going into uh a location and uh and rebranding it as their own. So this is not just uh this is not just uh a brand new facility opening, this is a transition, and it goes back to what we were talking about in previous sound offs. Uh, that if you stay still, you're gonna get run over. Uh the UAE seems to be embracing competitive socializing with both hands, uh, and SOCO is uh a new operation. Uh it's just purchased the latest tech, so they're actually putting in the hot shot uh shotgun systems from uh our friends at Connector. Uh they're also they've got their own AR Dart system in there. I couldn't see if it was 501 in the uh staff. They've got karaoke, they've got the bowling, so and it's a very high level uh of engagement that they're going for, which you're seeing across the UAE installation of competitive socializing, as we see in the Indian application of competitive socializing. I think they're raising the bar on what level of engagement is needed from this kind of approach.
SPEAKER_00:Well, again, one thing to consider when you're naming your facility is to make sure it doesn't misalign with somebody else. I literally Googled SOCO Dubai, the exact SOCO with Dubai. And um, there is a different site, a talent agency or a marketing agency, literally that's called SOCO Dubai, spelled the exact same way, has Soko Dubai in the URL, and therefore they are ranking at the top because they've been around for a lot longer, and now they're gonna have difficulty with their search for their website. So uh just another thing like do a search online, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:And do it using my uh analytics, the social coalition comes up number one when uh typing in uh SOCOL. So, yeah, uh if you type in social jungle next uh SOCOL, comma social jungle, you usually get to their site, but I I agree with you. Uh a confused nature. I think that they were hoping. Uh I did a number of conference sessions last year um talking of where we tried to abbreviate competitive socializing to POSO and stuff like that. I don't know if they were hoping to jump on the bandwagon and they thought the social competitive uh was going to take off, so they went with that abbreviation. Either way, I think they lost their gamble. But does that really matter in their key market? We will have to wait and see how successful they are. Uh, attack of uh the golfs and again uh gamification or the casino pivot, as I like to call it, where we're uh we've talked about this a number of times, where regional casinos have parachuted in to their venues, a competitive socializing or an amusement component. Here uh Ocean Casino Resort, they have uh decided to create their own Ocean's 18 mini uh mini golf and bar, which fundamentally is a competitive socializing parachute into their venue for Dwell. Target audience, uh private hire, and dwell means that even the casino sector wants to have this level of engagement at their uh their sites. And Atlantic City is quite a busy entertainment venue to compete with.
SPEAKER_00:Not much to say to this one. It's Atlantic City, it's Atlantic City.
SPEAKER_06:Uh they've got money to burn. Uh jumping to the UK and Liverpool has been working very hard to uh boost its nightlife uh and after social uh component to their city. Uh, the Liverpool One development is a central entertainment uh and restaurant and food hub area, and away from that uh we see the opening of De Lucas, interesting name, uh and this is a real what I would say live entertainment focused, but pivoting down to entertainment social environment. So along with the DJs and the live entertainment play space that you have available, they also include the club and the game lounge, the game lounge comprising you know the shuffleboards, the techno darts, which I assume are going to be AR darts, uh, Anti-American pool and all of that, while at the same time that they're they're going heavy on their bar and their uh entertainment component. We'll be interested to see if this is just a one-off for this particular locality or if they feel that this is a vehicle that will work in other locations.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this is interesting. I mean, it looks like from the based on their site that they're actually is there there's a DeLucas in Las Vegas, you know, that they're apparently bringing over to Liverpool. Like they said, Liverpool, prepare for arrival, new light nightlife concept that's crossing the Atlantic. So uh an LAS to LPL. So that would tell me that Las Vegas has a DeLucas, that they're now moving over to uh Liverpool.
SPEAKER_06:I couldn't quite work out if it was a franchise, whether they were inspired by the DeLucas, uh, or if this is just a brand new brand that is riding off of the back of uh the uh uh the American location. We'll have to wait and see if we're gonna be able to do it. I wasn't either. Um, but this could be one of those nightclubs within one of the casinos that I haven't uh haven't checked out. We will have to get a little bit more information from exactly what they're bringing over uh to get a handle on it, and as we can see from the website, they're still uh just about to throw the doors open. Moving on, and we have a Zap Zone XL. There are a number of uh Zap Zone variants, uh the Mega as well as the standard. It for me it's much more than just a FEC, uh, it has a much higher level of engagement. This is a mule rich writ large, really, from my perspective. Um, it has the bumper cars as well as the carting, which is always interesting. Then you get to the uh the middle bits where it does have the axe throwing, it does have the amusement, and it has the mini golf. So it is a it is a fusion uh of uh various uh applications. They have separated their various brands across the chain, you know, 10 facilities in. Um, and we will keep a very close eye on this particular operation now that they've reached that magic number.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um it's uh I get the XL, I guess it's Zapzone extra large, so it's a full entertainment destination, but it sure sounds like a laser tag facility based on the uh the base of the name.
SPEAKER_06:It does. Um, from the rundown of uh attractions in the facility, I didn't see laser tag.
SPEAKER_00:I know, I know. That's I think I think that's why I sighed.
SPEAKER_06:I'm like, oh they've got you've got both, you've got the name and you've incorporated a target in your name. So maybe the other zap zones uh I I would have to assume the other older zap zones before the XL have laser tag in it. It would be an interesting observation, thank you. Moving on, um well, um nothing to sneeze at 40,000 square. Um, Kentucky gets uh what it's always needed uh a bowling facility with an indoor golf potting range.
SPEAKER_00:Um I feel like you're sarcastic there.
SPEAKER_06:Well, I'm I'm being quizzical. I I sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and so I'm not going to use it there. Okay. Bugs these uh bare minimum from the renderings, because we only have renderings, uh, we don't have the full uh pictures yet, they're only just now throwing open their doors. What it feels like to me is that they've got the golf simulators in there, they've got the AR darts, uh or the sorry, competitive darts in there. I don't think they're AR. And then we've got the axe throwing, and then we kind of have a mix of oh, we've also got the bowling lanes, we've also got the arcade, um, the roller coaster simulator. You know, have they popped down to max flight and stuck one of those in the corner? I I I'm I'm having a little bit of a spaghetti moment with Bugsy. Uh, I don't know what they really want to be uh within their 40,000 square, but you know, we really shouldn't uh judge them too heavily until we see uh what the walkaround looks like.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and by the way, they are using the topgolf swing suites, so it isn't just uh you know some golf center, they're actually using Top Golf's swing suite, which you know, well we still don't have a lot of clarity on whether or not uh that is staying with Callaway or going with the Top Golf the Vesture. But um, you know, it'd be interesting. Uh I don't know that I'd be choosing a swing suite right now, given the uncertainty with Topgolf and Callaway.
SPEAKER_06:With the number of different adequate golf simulators out there, swing suites until they define themselves uh are in a very crowded market where people will vote with their wallet, and also their concern about security and longevity. I am concerned that the more time has passed since the announcement over the Callaway separation, that we're getting less and less information. It seems we're going in the opposite direction. Stuff that had been proven to be accurate is now being uh countered. So, excuse me, the the issues that I'm dealing with with Callaway uh and swing suites uh and top golf and also some of the other projects that they're involved with are becoming murky. So a project like this is interesting, but also a project such as uh our friends at Swing Uh 365 is also interesting. It is a golf lounge that offers F and B. It uh offers also a level of entertainment engagement, it is part of a 27 facility site. This is the second Oakland uh opening, so it kind of proves that the model is a strong model, uh, and it's using the golf simulators, and it is also offering uh some other sports uh linked to those, but it's primarily a sporttainment maybe uh location.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I would call it a sporttainment versus competitive socializing. I mean, it this certainly feels I know they have the FB. This really feels like, hey, um, even when you're looking at like buying, like they're selling memberships. So they're selling the vibes, it's$149 a month all the way up to$250 a month, depending on what you want to do. And then you can also sign up as a founder and pay$7,000, get lifetime membership and a bunch of other benefits. But uh, I mean, those types of pricing models tell me that they're really looking to make this like a club environment. And uh, I don't even see where I can book uh I can book a tea time on its own, but like they're really only specific, like the pricing really only shows the monthly. So this is definitely sporttainment.
SPEAKER_06:There they're folks, uh as as one person was saying to me when we were having the discussion about sporttainment, that you know, the are you gonna call it gym uh sporttainment? You know, no, no, you're not, but I understand the model, which is we're aiming to get a membership rather than to just deal with the onesies, twosies that walk past our facility. Uh, and uh from 27 sites that Swing Uh 365 has uh managed to open, I think that they've got a model that they feel works for them. We jump into the opens and the shuts and the sales, and we only have one really uh to deal with. Uh this one popped up on the radar, but didn't give us a lot of detail. So forgive me for not having uh as much uh factual information that I normally like to have on stuff like this. Pirates Pete's uh opened up uh 2009, Illinois, and you know they just put up in their social media that they're preparing to close in March, at the beginning of March. There's some ambiguity that they may be keeping uh some of the equipment because they're going to relocate into another location, but that is just left very vague. Um, from looking at where they're placed uh and looking at the competition that they're going up, and really looking closely at the site itself, it's marketing and it's promoting. I can't see a lot of investment in keeping it relevant for uh the current market that we're in. So I wouldn't be surprised that part of the problem that they've been suffering is footfall. And uh if they feel that they can move into a new location and blow um breathe new life into their operation, then we wish them the best in that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, a couple of things of to note, they were still uh using, as far as I can tell, still using tokens. Um tokens in their arcade. Uh, but then but then generally the pricing. So they were charging only$7 for unlimited uh time in the Play Smart. So they basically the soft play. So$7 per child uh in children must be three to six years of age, so obviously younger kids, but still seven dollars for unlimited time. Great place if I'm a mom to take my or a dad to take my kid and let them run around and climb around for I don't know, five hours until they're done for seven dollars. Um, and then their laser tag as well, priced only at six dollars per person per game, and then five dollars per person per game if you have a group of eight or more, which again, like don't discount it. If you're gonna have a group of eight, like charge the same price uh or or create different packages or something where there's value ads versus just discounting because there's more people. Um so anyway, it just definitely underpriced. And so they probably didn't have money to put in investment in back into the facility, and you know, it just all eventually caught up to them.
SPEAKER_06:If you get the pricing model wrong, no no matter how good your facility is, you're you're bleeding money. Uh and I am really concerned, and it is a topic for a later sound off in the future, about the value of play. What are the numbers? We've we've gone through before last year, uh, just looking at how much certain venues were charging for certain entertainments compared to how much certain venues were charging for their food uh and their beverage offering. And again, maybe it's uh time that we uh re-evaluate that. Giving an eat all-you can deal for an entertainment facility may sound good. Uh uh, but your accountants are going to be pulling his hair out, as well as your mechanic, because you're detrimenting the life of your facility, you're crowding your facility, you're wearing out your facility for a very low return.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_06:Moving on to the end, and as this was a quick one, just to double plug that we have some more stinger reports coming out soon. Uh, once I get some time, well, I've got to pull out some entertainment social arenas. Uh there's a bit of a backlog there. I apologize. Any information that people want to pass on to me about openings and closings, please hit me up on the email or on our Victim.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect. All right, sir. Well, it was a short, relatively uh limited open and shut this time around, but we'll see how it all shapes up next week.
SPEAKER_06:Have a good one.
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SPEAKER_00:All right. Well, that was awesome. Really nice, concise show today. And uh coming up on Tuesday, January 27th, we have start off number 107 with Kevin Williams. And that's a wrap for this week's LBX show. This is Brandon Wiley signing off. Stay tuned and keep kicking it.
