Sound Off #111 - Transmedia IP in LBE & Amusement, Tradeshow Wars, and more!

Sponsored by Intercard!
Sponsored by Alan-1!

On this week's show we dig into why big-box esports keeps missing while tournament-led play thrives, then map a whirlwind of IP, tech, and trade show shifts reshaping location-based entertainment. From Disney pivots to Pokémon pinball and LED enclosures, we discuss what actually drives repeat visits and revenue.

• tournament-led small-format esports sustaining repeat play versus large-format arenas
• Disney leadership changes altering IP deployment 
• Topgolf leadership move and Dave & Buster’s investors “hold” 
• IP-based kid venues struggling with repeat visitation and age targeting
• shared reality VR growth and the Vegas repeatability trap
• LED versus projection in immersive enclosures, kinetic 3D LED trend
• sportstainment mega-site blueprint for long dwell and mixed ages
• Logan airport arcade proof of uptime 
• Warhammer flagship LBE, Sega transmedia, Mario and Pokémon momentum
• trade show turf war in MENA and vendor consolidation pressure

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Transcript

Opening & Esports Reality Check

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Are you on the edge of your seat? Because we're about to stay with Kevin Williams, covering today's latest trends in location-based entertainment. Brought to you by the LBX Collective, your community collective age and funding. All right, everyone, let's buckle up.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

All right. Well, welcome everybody to Sound Off with Kevin Williams. This is number 111 for February 24th, 2026. Kevin, how are you doing, sir?

SPEAKER_03 0:35

I'm doing well, Brandon. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

I'm doing great. Yeah. This is gonna be uh this is gonna be a long one. We've got a lot of great things to cover and talk through today. So let's, as usual, start off with changing my mind. So what's what's what is it this day?

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Well, we touched upon it a little bit, um, a couple of sound offs uh and open and shuts ago, but it needs to be said the esports side of our sector has kind of got very quiet, and I still feel that it has a part to play in the the overall uh opportunity for our sector. We see our friends at Incredible Technologies investing further in their pseudo-esports support of their Silver Stripe bowling platform, as well as the success that they've had with Golden Tea. We have Play Mechanics with the huge success that they have with uh Big Buck Hunter. And we also have other examples that don't really get the publicity from the trade of successful uh esports deployment within facilities. And, you know, we were just talking about this particular slide uh or rendering, you know, being an indicator of a prospect that had big opportunities but only delivered one site permanently.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Yeah, I mean I think the the one I think it depends on how the esports is manifested. So this is obviously what we're looking at here, not the location that's currently still

Big-Box Esports vs Tournament Models

SPEAKER_01 2:07

open at the Six Flags uh San Antonio, Six Flags Fiesa, Texas, basically, in San Antonio. Um, this is their Six Flags E6 gaming site. But uh, you know, I think in in this type of installation, I struggle with its its viability inside of another FEC, right? I mean, if you're coming in for bowling and then you have this big esports gaming facility, that's where I wonder like, does that mix really work? You're attracting two very different audiences to come in for each of those different things. That being said, um, you know, when you talk about uh big buck hunter or golden tea or even um I'm now I'm going blank on um now I'm going blank on them. Uh describe Jan, Jan, uh Virtuex, uh Virtux Arena. I mean, gosh, I just went one blank on it. But but you have that, right? He was trying to build an esports component, and actually he's done that fairly successfully, primarily because of his individual home gaming system that he's obviously done, right? And so you can practice at home, you come in and practice in these tournament facilities, and so you have that collective at home and in in person, right? The golden tea works really well because you can be at a bar and playing golden tea, right? That's where you see a lot of those, the a lot of those instant incentiation. So I like I just really struggle though with like this type of big format large footprint gaming centers. This is the problem.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Cookie cutter taking an idea and just dropping it in and hoping it will do what it what it's done for other people's. I have followed esports since the Korean days, of when we saw the television and the Korean tournaments and the Dota uh events, and they were lined up PC machines, keyboards, comfy seats, uh, and a compare. But that was the um the Valve LAN net approach. And those days have gone. Most land nets have uh turned themselves into more uh appropriate entertainment venues uh that are using network play on the PC side. The Asian market has quite changed considerably on its approach to esports. And if you go through the list of esports venues that we used to chart back in the day, many of them have closed, but they've also pivoted. And it was a mistake of the FEC industry to think that you could just dump this in and it would work. That was the mistake that our friends at GameWorks made when they uh tried to add an esports component. Though don't throw the baby out with the bath water, because as you say, our friends at Virtux managed to succeed and still succeed with an esports component to their entertainment. Our amusement friends managed to continue with a tournament esports style uh component to the big buck hunter. It's the right horse for the right course.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, well, that being said, we've got a big set of things to cover in front of us, ahead of us. So let's just get it rolling uh right after the break.

Sponsor Break: Intercard

SPEAKER_01 5:21

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Disney Shake-Ups And IP Strategy

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Let's jump straight in, and we've got a lot to talk about as we keep on saying. Uh going back to uh previous sound off and saying that we would feel the ripples of the change of hands and ownership uh across certain corporations once the management team had changed. Well, surprise, surprise, we wake up to the news that John Favreau, a leading lighter, steering individual in the current styling of uh Star Wars within the Disney Empire, has decided that the Mandalorian film that is just about to be released will be his last film in this sector, and that he is thinking now of moving on into other areas. Interesting, those other areas are still associated with Disney, but uh it's a big surprise to see this happen. Um one would say the change of management at Lucasfilm and the change of management at the Disney Corporation has brought a wind of change, and that was underlined by the news that a change in the way that uh imagineering is now being steered towards uh the application of IP. We're seeing the new CEO dropped in already at this early stage into uh designing meetings and making suggestions on changes on previous management decisions. The idea that there was nothing wrong with uh the Falcon experience, the Millennium Falcon smugglers' run experience was perfect, everybody loved it, has now been backed up a little bit. And they're they're saying that they're going to listen to their audience now and make slight changes. And then, surprise, surprise, we wake up to the news also that Imagineering has torn up the original uh designs for uh villains lands that seem to receive a little bit of backlash, though certain previous management didn't recognize that now we're going to see a much more uh broader and inclusive uh development and design study into this. This is big, guys. This is very big.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

This one is actually surprising. I had not actually heard this news about the villains land. Um, because one of my I was really looking forward to this. I think this is something that is uh not really villains aren't typically celebrated at Disney at any of the Disney parks. And so I think that this, you know, there are antagonists in some of the dark rides and other things, right? But like as a villain's land specifically, uh, this is uh really disappointing, actually. Dark universe at uh Epic Universe and Universal has uh done very I mean, I think it's one of my favorite lands in the new Epic Universe area, and maybe that's partly because I'm a big monster, old Universal Monsters fan, but um you know it is disappointing.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Yeah, it no, no, don't treat this as disappointing, treat it as you just dodged a bullet, because I was led to believe uh that uh the idea of villain's land had been toned down quite considerably compared to what we now, you know, I'm a long, long time ago since I was an imagineer, but even when I was at Imagineering, there was a concept for a villain's land being muted and being thrown around and being uh designed and uh discussed uh under the Eisner tutelage. And to see Bob Iger um kind of accept uh this kind of concept uh and then have uh the villain's land presented as kind of a watered-down approach was a little bit of a disappointment, but you know, we were we had to accept that was the current management. The new management seems to be pivoting back, even to the point of seeing uh Michael Eisner uh actually involved in some discussions uh with the new Disney management. Fingers crossed that you can roll back some poor decisions.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Indeed.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

Uh and taking the helm to make some new decisions, uh we've touched upon the changes that uh shaped uh Chuck E. Cheese with the departure of uh David. To we didn't know at that time where he was going, um, and now we wake up to the fact that uh he has jumped into the next big opportunity uh for his illustrious talents, and that is to try and turn the ship of state uh of Top Golf. This is the first time I had a press release from Top Golf that actually mentioned a swing suite. You know, I had a card arrest. So obviously, new broom and new focus, and we

Topgolf Leadership Change

SPEAKER_03 10:30

look forward to the team that he'll put in place.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Yeah, I think if there's somebody who, at least in the current C-suite world of all the different venues and brands that are out there, that somebody who can come in and take a brand that's been struggling and turn it around, um, it is David McKillops. And so uh let's hope that he has as much success here at Top Golf as he has had at Chuck E. Cheese over the years. Uh, and obviously, uh not that TC Entertainment has made 100% uh home runs along the way during his tenure, but he certainly had a good number of uh good number of home runs there, and so uh Top Golf needs them desperately.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

It's more about the team than the individual, but we wish him a lot of luck in finding the right team to support his efforts. Dave

Dave & Buster’s Investor Concerns

SPEAKER_03 11:18

and Busters. I was surprised that not a lot of media services reported this, but uh you know uh it it is it is what it is. Uh Dave and Busters uh traded on the NASDAQ, uh, and then suddenly lots of reports were coming from investor uh observations and broker services that a hold had been put on uh the the trading of uh their shares. Now, this isn't that the uh the uh the shares were suspended, this was actually the investors and the uh uh stockbrokers actually rating the uh the quality of the Dave and Busters uh stock option as one not to sell but to hold. Now, that usually means that there's a lot of anger, and most of that anger seemed to be uh over the uh failing to hit any of uh the revenue earning expectations that the company had been making over the last few months and years. Uh, this was also linked uh to a consideration that there needed to be changes made within the operation to continue, and maybe some of the changes from the new C-suite hadn't gone further enough. Just to put this into perspective, the valuation of the company at the point of uh being held uh was 500 million, and then when you put that into perspective, that they paid 800 million uh for uh for the acquisition of main event, it kind of is a concern that the boat anchor is weighing down the boats considerably. We are waiting to hear of major developments within Dave and Busters to address a lot of the issues, and I think we will get uh a full disclosure in the coming weeks, if not months, uh, regarding what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Well, I'll say that uh for main event shareholders, it's sure a good thing that that was a cash acquisition and not a stock acquisition.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Well, that would have been painful. Don't want to touch that one. We touched upon this one uh in Open and Shut, that we were trying to get to the bottom of certain information. And I was pointing out at the time how difficult it is to get research

IP-Driven Kids Venues: Closure Pattern

SPEAKER_03 13:36

done onto the closures. Uh the openings uh are plentiful, closures seem to be uh held and hidden uh from uh from admittance. And one years that we were stumbling across the courtesy of our sources was Crayler Experience, and the Crayler uh experience uh was four facilities. Flagship was in Orlando, and they had uh other locations dotted around. Now we had confirmation that the Crayler experience in Texas had closed. Uh, that was confirmed, local media confirmed that it was linked to uh sources saying that it was a dispute with the mall operators uh and the payment of rents and the pricings and such like. So it was kind of a no, this isn't anything to do with the experience, this is more uh a problem of the locality. And then we got wind that uh the Orlando flagship facility first opened in 2012 had gone through closure. Uh now that wasn't confirmed 100%, and we're still fighting hard to get confirmation of what the situation is. Currently, it isn't accepting certain parties, and uh, according to some sources, it's closed, and to other sources it's uh it's opened its doors, it was just a temporary closure for something else. Once we get more detail about this, we will dig into it, but it kind of underlines what we've been going through over the last few sound-offs and uh last few opens and shuts, of seeing a pattern where these high-profile IP-driven kids' uh activity entertainment facilities have opened with great fanfare and promotion and lots of awards, only to disappear and to die in ignominity without anyone talking about the reality of do these concepts work and do the people behind developing these concepts actually understand their audience.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

So I think one of the differences here, maybe between Criola Experience and the other two, Nickelodeon Adventure and Planet Play School, is that the latter two were by licensees of the IP. So they're developers, they built these attractions. They worked obviously, I shouldn't say obviously, but probably pretty closely with the Nickelodeon team or the planet or the Hasro team to develop Planet Play School and the attractions. Um but at the same time, they were operators not tied directly to the parent companies in Crayola Experiences uh locations. These were actually directly owned by Crayola, which is owned by Hallmark Company. And so these were owned and operated by the Crayola team. And so presumably, because they don't have the same license and IP license costs, they should have been able to find and run and create experiences that uh, you know, and have greater margins on their experiences than the other two because they didn't have the high IP costs. And so, you know, the question here is it is it a matter of the uh the cost of the IP, or is it actually something that has to do with maybe the age demographic, actually, that these these types of more um interactive experiences are targeting?

SPEAKER_03 16:56

So you could argue that all three of them, uh these concepts share one common denominator, and that common denominator is that even though uh the IP owner was involved in the process in one level or the others, they were dependent on consultancies. Even the Crayola experience had a large number of consultants and advisors directing them on the best approach uh on this, and sometimes the blind can lead the blind. We need to understand that this concept of a children's IP uh approach has only worked really as pop-ups for marketing and promotion. To actually see it generate core revenue, repeat visitation, uh, and to succeed beyond uh a mum and pop's operation, but as an IP chain store, very limited number of examples of that. And if that isn't being emoted to the IP holder at the beginning of the process, that they're going into uncharted waters, rather than what I am worried about hearing. And as a consultant, you would expect me to say that I am concerned that if someone turns up as a consultant and says, Hey, I have all the answers to work, only to disappear in a puff of smoke as soon as the uh facility collapses and closes, or disappears in this case. So a lot of the companies that are linked to these kinds of projects on a consultancy or an advisory basis will disappear into the shadows, not wanting to be associated with a failure, as we all are, you know. But as a as a consultant, I keep on saying the only as good as your last project, and so I have to take the brick bats along with uh the plaudit.

Sega Pivot, Hospitality Strains, BrewDog Sale

SPEAKER_03 18:40

That is a personal opinion, but from a corporation point of view, you know, especially a Mattel or a Hasbro, they're not really going to want to talk about those projects that got away from them.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah, yeah, I think it really does come down to the age demographic, ten and under. This is what these target, you know, probably even closer to eight and under at some levels. Yeah, but and so you know, what you have here is I and I took my daughter to Creole Experience. Uh, they had one out here in Chandler, and uh she had a great time. We had a great time together, and but it was a one and done. I wasn't gonna go back, and maybe I would go back in another year or two, but not the next week, not the next month. And so if I'm going at the same time, there are eight and under venues that work very well: soft play, indoor inflatables, others, and that you create memberships and people go back on a regular weekly basis and they build it as part of their overall time with their kids and their family. And I think this is where you run into an issue where you've got these interactive, IP-driven experiences that are very limited on a repeat visitation standpoint.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

And being stared by individuals that have more of an experience on resort and attractions than they do on repeat play, amusement FEC stars. We'll leave it there, but I I get the feeling that we've got one more uh of these kinds of kids' experiences to deal with in the coming weeks. Quickly, uh our friends at uh Sega Sami reveal their numbers, the true uh Sega component, uh, and they they see the dip. We're at that time of the year where a lot of companies are revealing their uh quarterly or year-end numbers. And the dip is a little bit concerning, though the company is now pivoted to transmedia, as it were, to try and save their situation, their their acquisition of Rovios. Uh Rovio um and the Angry Birds IP will be soon seeing a third film, uh hoping to ride the wave of popularity of video game animated films, as well as an increase in the number of Sega store developments and the IP that goes into that. So that's one to one to watch changes within corporations. Uh the hospitality market in as well as internationally has been taking a pounding. If you haven't moved with the times, if you uh have a brand that is finding it difficult to be a uh a winner across multiple formats, it's difficult. Our friends at Brewdog, who are primarily a brewing house, they create the brewdog beer brand, which is international. They also invested in uh opening their own pubs, and one of those pubs uh it was the beginning of a rollout of their dreams and aspirations in competitive socializing. It had duck bed bowling, it had slides, it uh you know, it had a specialist entertainment approach. Anyway, all of that has been uh wiped off the table. The company's up for sale, and it will be interesting to see which components are acquired, if the company is acquired as a whole, or if it's broken up into uh individual units.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah. They if you haven't uh if anybody is going to Amusement Expo coming up in just a couple of weeks, before they go out, uh go go under or get sold, uh go check out. The brew dog in Las Vegas.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

It's been a while since I've done that. Maybe we should add that to the list.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah.

Shared Reality VR: HTC And Felix & Paul

SPEAKER_03 22:08

HTC, um, kind of a pivot here. We we're seeing uh a continued growth or investment into what I like to call shared reality uh experiences. Those are not just the virtual reality where it's four or six of you playing uh in a small arena, but where you put the headset on and you walk around quite an expansive environment. What some companies like to call the uh immersive expedition or the immersive adventure. Well, uh our friends uh HTC have suddenly dumped a lot of money in Asia into that side of the market, and they've just rolled out uh the latest uh installation uh of this kind of approach. I I I chart this one because I think it's one to keep an eye on, because we also have examples of other companies now looking at investment and increasing uh their involvement in this kind of approach. Thank you for the video, Brandon. Uh on screen now is their video of the experience, the Little Mermaid. Um I find the graphics here, you know, it's one of those videos that mixes real people in the virtual environment. I wonder how closely that mirrors what the actual experience feels like. Though that said, these one and done virtual uh adventures seem to have found an audience.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Yeah, I do wonder about this. I mean, one, the graphics are actually relatively mediocre, and I don't know if they were intended to be this, but it looks like almost like late 90s VR type uh really uh blocky graphics. Um yeah, and so you know again, don't know if that's just the the effect and look that they're looking for. Um and you know, I do wonder, right? I mean, it's a 45-minute experience. Is it just a walkthrough experience? It does look like there's some level of storytelling um and maybe some interactivity, like I'm somewhat controlling or trying to just there's some discovery there. But uh yeah, well, you know, it'd be interesting to see how well it does once it gets out there.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

And it's that kind of 45 minutes walkthrough experience. So you buy your ticket, you go in a group, you uh you walk through the experience, you're out the other door, uh past the merchant area, and that's it. Do you come back? Do you bring your friends to do it again? That's the big question. And our friends at Felix and Paul, they have a proven track record record. They launched their space experience in Canada that traveled uh around North America and Europe. They then have redeveloped this concept, mixing virtual reality with a walkthrough uh experience to do Interstellar Arc, which has opened at uh Area 15 and is on our bucket list to do uh while we're out there. And they've they've walked away now and said this has been a huge success. We've got ticket sales out the wazoo. We're now looking uh to find strategic partners uh to take this concept and roll it out as we did with space into other localities. So I believe that there's a model here. I wouldn't be surprised if Fever doesn't get involved with that, but that's just speculation on my part. Um, I believe very strongly that this is a much easier ticket sale uh to put forward into the current VR situation uh than uh, so we say some of the other approaches to uh uh audience-based VR. That said, in coming sounds, we'll have more information about that split in the market.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

I think that it would be very interesting for Fever to take this on. Uh, this seems like right up their alley at some level. Uh, however, at the same time, I'll say I think they need to be very careful, whoever is looking at this, to take into account the Las Vegas trap. The fact that uh they have been successful, but they've been successful in Vegas at Area 15, where there's already an enormous amount of traffic that flows through on a regular basis. And it is traffic that doesn't rely on repeat visitation. It's you know, it's traffic that relies on people continually coming to Vegas to visit for conventions and for

Beware The Vegas Trap For Walkthroughs

SPEAKER_01 26:23

fun, etc. And so they can very quickly fall into the trap of this is successful, and I think it can be successful depending on the location that they go into. And if it's a location that has a lot of high traffic, high tourism, then yes, I do believe that this is something that could do well.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Issues with this particular concept is it is very uh specifically themed. So you're going to need to have the right location or the right city, you're gonna have to find the right space, and there's not those many sizes of venues available unless you go down the uh the ABBA experience and build your own in a parking lot somewhere. And the other argument about this is, as you touched upon, the the Vegas Pixie Dust. I would love to know how our friends uh Luminarium are doing with their space uh based uh experience in comparison to what Interstellar Art has been achieving. Again, more more locations for our uh uh for our fields trip in a couple of weeks' time. Really weird one. This one, weird in a good way. Um, if you're not familiar with uh David Lloyd's uh sports fitness facility, David was uh a very famous tennis player who then pivoted into the business world of opening up his own sports and fitness facilities as well as his own tennis club operation. That rolled out into a very successful uh multi-million dollar uh chain of uh sports venues internationally. Uh, and then he's been involved in other projects. One of these other projects that he's uh suddenly revealed his involvement with is the the real David Lloyd Sports Guns. This is an indoor and outdoor monster. Uh it's considerable uh coverage, over 200,000 square is the indoor size uh of this especially created uh indoor environment. Uh outside, you have everything from the go-karts to the uh tennis and pickleball, which is also repeated indoors as well. Uh, but we also have the

Sportainment Mega-Project: Real David Lloyd Sports Clubs

SPEAKER_03 28:38

competitive socializing. I, you know, my magical phrase of uh the bowl of spaghetti thrown at the wall, this is it. This is the marriage of sports attainment with amusement and competitive socializing. It's a vast project. I was really lucky. Um, David took some time to sit me down, pat me on the head, and walk me through uh exactly what they are intending to do, and ground is already broken. The uh Orlando, um sorry, the Florida facility has already uh started the final processes of uh construction and development, and they are in uh active uh discussion regarding the UK, where they're hoping to have three facilities in the UK opened simultaneously, and they're working on the uh the final leasing of that. This is this is quite a considerable move into the competitive socializing market, but also merging that with sporttainment. And all of those individuals that must be laughing at the screen at the moment having to see me talk about pickleball being injected into a space like this. Uh, I was given an education of how they hope uh to achieve the sports side of this along with the entertainment side of this. It's an incredibly ambitious project, and I wanted to bring it uh uh to our listeners and uh watchers early uh before we actually get some pictures of the uh the uh location in Florida.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Yeah, um uh for those of you who are just listening, we're just we've got a video playing from their from their website. Uh, you know, there's obviously not a whole lot of detail yet. Um, but this is uh they've basically crammed an enormous amount into this facility, uh like an insane amount. And I will say that uh inside and out. Yeah, so so you know it is it is pretty impressive. It's obviously you know this big indoor in inflatable domed thing. Um, but the the the type of attraction mix is interesting here. And one of the things that I really did appreciate about this, uh, besides the fact that they have um I mean, like they've got roller coasters and more pickleball and paddle courts outside as well as inside of zip lines and ropes courses and everything else. So I mean it's really important. Yeah, and now I'll say though, this you know, one of my biggest frustrations about this is when they try to bring paddle ball and you know, or excuse me, paddle and pickleball into an entertainment facility, but this really is meant to be, I think, hey, let's go and hang out for an afternoon with the family. The parents are gonna go play pickleball, the kids are gonna go run around on the ninja course and the soft play and the ropes courses and everything else. And we're all gonna grab some food, maybe some dinner or some lunch at the same time. And so I think that in this type of scenario, when you have this, this is almost like a sportstainment meets entertainment, um mini amusement park at some level. And I think you can have a pretty significant dwell time here. Now, one thing that we passed by very quickly is indoors, they have a changing room. And so this is also an uh something that I think is missing often in these pickleball and paddle entertainment venues. Very much so that you don't have the ability to, after I've just got sweaty playing pickleball, I can then go change into some other clothes, go have a beer and lunch, and then maybe go race some go-karts or go on a roller coaster with my kids.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Or vice versa. I've just had a real fun time in the uh uh the go-karts, and then I had to do the uh uh the uh the overalls that I've been uh racing in, and I'm going, oh I don't feel you know, I wish I wish I could have a shower, you know. I wish I could freshen up. You know, these are the the concepts. It's one of the things that uh we were talking about with our friends at Tocker Social, about they do have that capability of, you know, you do have changing rooms if you if you want to put on your proper shoes and uh you know play playing different clothes to the clothes that you turned up in. This is leading very heavily on the experience that David has from uh his uh fitness uh and exercise and sports component. This will be uh uh an underlining merger of sport atainment and entertainment, and it will either prove or disprove many of the theories that we've been holding dear. I call this the kind of the area 15 of the sports tainment side of the business where our friends at Area 15 have become the immersive uh experience uh distinguisher. One to watch, and I wanted to bring it uh to our audience's attention.

Airport Arcades And 3D Kinetic LED

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Just for those that are interested, I try and now include the new and the established companies into the Taurus of Hell. Uh, the Taurus of Hell is actually going to be going through a little bit of uh spring clean in a couple of weeks' time as I readjust it uh to some of the trends that we're seeing in the market.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Perfect. All right, well, coming up after the break, we'll continue digging into some more trends. How are your game floor with arcades by Allen One? Whether it's perfectly pouring drinks in Dr. Pepper's total planning, having official light something's clutches, or defending cities to attack and missile command recharge. Alan One has something for every venue and arcade floor that will delight your guests. Each game is also enhanced majorly easily. Free appracts player top scores and brings guests back to your venue for more. Visit Allen Dash One.com to learn more. That's AllenDash1.com.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Thank you, Alan One, and into the trends. Thank you to our audience out there, uh a loyal audience now. I have to salute them. We asked and they supplied. And so we have uh examples of the Logan arcade in operation. No broken machines. Heart attack on my part. Uh so uh the first picture also gave us an example, uh well, gave us the information of who the arcade distributor uh is of these mint machines. And I managed to be able to speak to the uh the company in question. They're going to give us a little bit more detail. Hopefully, we can fit in a quick chat with them in detail uh before uh we get roped into the chaos and confusion of AEI, but if not, we'll do that afterwards. Um, free play machines, though these machines have CoinMecs on them, they have applied tape to them. And in some of the other terminals, the machines are there. Interestingly enough, next door to hand sanitizers, um, which raised a very big eyebrow of me because I know that hand sanitizing liquid and joysticks don't usually uh mix well, but sworn on a stack of Bibles, all of the machines uh that were in operation at the facility were working. So hats off uh to Hometown Arcade who are behind that, and we hope to have a little bit more information. Uh looks like I may have to uh eat my uh chocolate flavored uh hat regarding the uh the actual viability of those machines in such a high throughput environment.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Yeah, well, hats off to Hometown Arcade. Uh I I too did not expect these things to be uh you know fully operational and and not run down within the first weekend.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

So uh being played, being played hard. So being played hard, of course.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Well, and especially after this weekend. Uh sorry to everybody who's trying to travel this weekend in the you know in this particular area. So hopefully these are getting some use while everybody is uh buckled down for a pretty significant blizzard.

LED Enclosures, Hello Kitty Pop-Up, Valo Updates

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Yeah, the the weather as long with other conditions has really impacted travel, so it's nice to have this fallback. Maybe other uh transportation and airport facilities will start looking at this concept. It used to be popular. Technology that we're seeing deployed. Uh, we've had some very big uh international AV uh audio and video conferences taking place in Europe and uh Asia. We had some new technology presented to us, what some people are calling the 3D kinetic LED screen. Well, it means is that there's pop-up, motorized pop-up elements from the screen. You have tactality now. That goes to my fidgetal mantra, but uh this is really bringing both the digital and the physical uh together. You can have your space invaders represented on screen that are physically shot out uh as uh elements of the screen rather than just flat 2D components. I expect this technology to go through a lot of iterations of improvement, but remember we talked about 3D kinetics at this point.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Yeah, yeah, this is uh this is pretty cool. Can't wait to see what applications we'll be able to deploy.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

Also, we would have been talking a long time about the immersive enclosure type approach, not using projectors, where we're now seeing the beginnings of a number of uh uh what I would call marketing entertainment installations popping up, literally, uh as uh as not projection enclosures, but using LED screens. You can see in the future uh this type of enclosure using LED screens where there is that kinetic physicality given to the characters, the animated elements on screen. The one in Tokyo that I've uh outlined here is uh based on the Hello Kitty property. So this is a brand promotion environment, which to me feels very much like an Innerwise uh uh you know, a cubix kind of enclosure approach or a uh Vallo Arena kind of enclosure.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

The only difference uh being that it doesn't have to worry about projection, but yeah, it does very much actually look like a uh an Innerwise Cubics arena, just slightly wider, obviously. Um, do we know and is this is this connected to merchandising similar to like a camp experience where uh you know obviously camp has more storytelling and interactivity with actual cast members, but you know, usually when something like this is popped up, you have merchandise right next to it. And I can't seem I can't seem to find anything online about whether or not there's uh merch connected.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

There is merch connected, though I think uh most of the merch purchases is done through an app. Interesting. Yes. It is a marketing tool, it is being deployed, it is here to promote the Hello Kitty brand. Uh, and uh you will be seeing other examples of this kind of merchandising marketing pop-up, which is interactive. You can interact with the characters on screen.

Projection vs LED: The Arms Race

SPEAKER_03 39:40

Uh this is this is the beginning of a big trend. Taking a successful IP uh and moving it across your platform is definition of transmedia. Uh, and our friends at Velo Motion have seen the success on their Valo Arena system of the floor is lava, and they've created a version of that uh experience that now is uh linked to their jumping valo, sorry, valo jump uh trampoline style experience.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Yeah, that's great. Uh love to see this continue to get new content. Valo Jump is super uh popular in active play installations and in trampoline parks and adventure parks. So, you know, it's good to see that they're continuing to invest in their gameplay for those concepts as well as their Valorena.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

I can see a lot of sport tainment facilities looking at this kind of interactivity as that repeat visitation magic bullet that they all need. You know, the technology of projection against LEDs, uh the projection industry is trying to fight its corner. Um they don't want to be sidelined by the explosion in LEDs. And our friends at Panasonic have uh dropped quite a considerable amount of RD investment into their next generation uh of uh laser projection systems. I would argue that they're now trying to catch up to the quality that the LED boys have been able to achieve with their uh micro LED

Immersive Gamebox Legacy And Coach Cube

SPEAKER_03 41:10

high high performance systems. So the battle lines have been drawn.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Yeah, I mean, I the one thing I'll just say here is I really see this maybe continuing to be an application in larger format rides, dark rides, etc. When it comes to small format, uh family entertainment, interactive installations, LED is going to continue to be the way of the future. And uh, but it doesn't say that uh there's not a place for something like this in obviously large format rides and and uh ride simulators.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

I feel we're at that CRT moment. Um we're getting there where, but it's horses for courses, as I keep on saying, and you're quite right, for a large area, you're not going to uh blow your budget on uh LED micro, uh especially with the limitations over a large field of view where these projectors still have a part to play for now. One of those projection immersive enclosure systems that I always used to talk about uh is our friends uh at immersive game box. Obviously, immersive game box went through quite a considerable restructuring after it uh fell into administration and then relaunched itself with a brand new board of directors. One of the founders of uh immersive game box uh has gone on to another project which kind of borrows a lot of the immersive game box concept. Um they have developed something called Coach Cube, which is a smart room, or as I would call it, uh an immersive enclosure. Uh the room has one uh area for you to do your training uh within, your exercise within. And while you're doing your exercise, the screen is supporting you and uh hoping to encourage you through a smart uh coach,

Warhammer Attraction And Transmedia Plays

SPEAKER_03 43:10

uh as it were. Uh and that coach is using machine learning or AI to see how you're doing with your exercise regime, what your background uh core activities are. So it's a smart um curator, a smart coach, a smart trainer to uh being supported by visual stimuli of this immersive environment that can also track your movement. It is a way to try and sell the concept of the next generation fitness experience. We wish this new company a lot of uh luck because we know how difficult the uh fitness sector is at the moment, especially uh looking at the changing in their audience post COVID. And I'm just wondering how much of a crossover from immersive game box uh this uh uh Coach Cube uh really is.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Well, if you are uh anywhere near Clapham Junction in uh in London, then you can give it a try. That's where the first initial location is.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

Down the road and uh I wait to uh get sweaty. But we'll have to we'll have to uh have to fit that in with all of our travel at the moment. Quickly through the IP and IP has never been more important in the crossover into the location-based entertainment sector. Games Workshop woke up to uh and prior to uh the big uh announcements that were coming uh this month due to the shows that were going on uh they turn around and say oh well we we've decided that we're gonna get into the Netflix house business and they've uh admitted that they're going to be opening in Washington DC for next year 2027 a Warhammer uh attraction this will be a facility with multiple immersive rooms uh linked to the Warhammer uh 40k IP they're riding the wave they already have Warhammer stores that are used as retail venues to sell their board games uh and uh their other merchandising regarding the universe of Warhammer 40k they also have in development with Amazon uh a uh Warhammer uh series it's kind of in limbo a little bit at the moment I was uh told that uh Henry Cavill was involved directly with that and then a lot of the dates of when it was going to be rolling out have been pushed around a lot but I assume that by 2027 that will be out and that will be another vehicle that will help promote this is the transmedia approach to the business and riding on your IP and deploying it into location based entertainment really large.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Yeah this will be interesting I mean we already have obviously Warhammer um uh space marines for uh VR for zero latency so it'd be interesting if they are really just crew you know if they're going to use a zero latency as a partner to bring in here or if they're really developing their own um Warhammer attractions to go into or entertainment to go into this space. Obviously there'll be heavy retail and merchandise here as well. But it'd be interesting to see what level of entertainment they bring in.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

Washington DC uh flagship facility is going to be one to watch though I think it will be a crowded market by 2027 with other companies throwing their hats in the room. It's that Gender moment and it was kind of synergy with what was going on as we'll talk about in a minute but our friends at Gender latest uh partnership business agreement uh Kobayaki they are well known for their miniatures uh based on IP from manga uh and anime uh a lot of their miniatures are also found as prizes within uh some of the uh crane machines or plaw machines uh within the facilities they're a very collectible uh item I would actually say that they're kind of like a war hammer with the uh toy and collectible uh uh range and this is you know a fantastic uh development for Gander to have direct control

Arcade One Up, Sonic Cabinet, Pokémon Pinball Surge

SPEAKER_03 47:25

and access to this line of prizes that can populate uh the machines within their facilities it's all very symbiotic and we learnt a new word uh Gander has revealed a little bit more about how they're going forwards with their uh business developments they're not just buying every company around but they're also now developing the companies that they uh have uh brought into the fold and digital transformation DX is a phrase that uh I will touch upon in a later sound off and the reason why we were talking a lot about uh IP from the toy side uh of the sector is that we've had three of the largest uh toy shows taking place at the beginning of the year we had the uh London Toy Fair we had the German toy fair and then the big one uh we had the New York Toy Fair uh and IP was aplenty and IP making transitions into other levels of engagement the Mario film uh it was a big uh bone of contention here uh it's you know the latest film in the series it's getting a lot of hype a lot of interest you know hitting the screens uh in April the third in the series and bang we have seen the ultimate transmedia uh uh Taurus really we have seen a arcade game go to a video game go to a uh movie go to a theme park and now a toy based on an arcade video game character your brain explodes and uh you know Universal were pushing this very heavily how important this kind of toy set from Jax is going to be um you know it it it is the the Lego moment that I would call it if I was talking about toys but it is a very strong pivotal moment that we're seeing even before the films come out how much that uh certain of the toy uh manufacturers want to have this as IP how many more video games are going to go through this I've already talked about what Sega is proposing to do with Angry Birds we need to be part of this bandwagon why we are not pushing um in the location based entertainment a Super Mario Galaxy uh based marketing plan now because we would have had to have started it now to be able to ride this wave is beyond me and maybe it's a a factor why others in our uh in the location based entertainment industry want to do it themselves rather than depend on other industries to do it for them.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Yeah I think one of the difficulties here is that for whatever reason um you know Nintendo has really not attempted to form IP based entertainment based partnerships within the location based entertainment world. I mean we haven't seen anything from a VR standpoint we haven't seen anything from an amusement and arcade cabinet standpoint since uh well I mean basically since Donkey Kong to some level right I mean so you know I'm not sure that this is uh I don't I don't know why they seem uh to have an antithesis against location based entertainment uh you know is it they only are focused on the larger universal partnership right in their Super Mario Brother world or Super Mario world so anyway uh love to get your thoughts on that front.

SPEAKER_03 51:01

Nintendo has memories uh it's one of those corporations like Disney a little bit that has a long corporate memory. And if you slight them or if they find something difficult or uncomfortable they will remember that and they will uh have umbridge and if you know your history about the early and later days of Nintendo's entry into the North American market with their successful amusement products and how some US distributors did them the dirty uh regarding uh the success of uh their Mario and uh their Nintendo amusement video amusement range, you can kind of see when they pulled out and focused wholly on their consumer video games sector that we are going to have to change a lot of our spots and maybe take our hats off and apologize to Nintendo of how they were treated in the North American market before they may turn and look at us as something profitable. Again Nintendo also goes for very profitable business areas and I'm not sure if we're in the uh uh the the right area code uh of uh the profitability for them to now turn their gaze to location based entertainment that doesn't mean that Nintendo won't work on maybe a regional or a Netflix house kind of approach but I would be very surprised if they would use the amusement industry as it stands today to help populate that facility without maybe developing their own interpretation. Yeah agreed and talking about uh

McDonald’s IP Boost And Deal Show Recap

SPEAKER_03 52:35

licensing deals uh our friends at Bandai Namco Experience or the entertainment division have signed uh and a continuation of the usage of their MissPuckMan and Putman IP for application in the toy range of these uh pup arcade or uh rec room arcade machines developed by our friends at arcade one up of course things have changed uh and at the New York Toy Fair Basic Fun were representing the arcade one up I have to be very clear here basic fun has acquired selected assets of arcade one up those people saying that they have beat one up are incorrect it is selected assets and those assets are still being defined at the moment of what they want and what they don't want and discard. And it was a big surprise to see an arcade machine uh you know in their uh unique style that wasn't an arcade machine so a lot of the super fans of arcade one up were shocked to see a Sonic the Hedgehog uh arcade machine knowing that this was never a thing this is a uh clue of various of the uh super snares and uh other console so uh Sega console properties put into its own unique cabinet it looks very compelling it looks you know it looks like a a strong uh acquisition though those fuddy duddies that are fanatics about accuracy in the arcade sector were losing their proverbial hair um all that said a lot of camera footage a lot of interest from the trade regarding this and I think this could point to basic fun being that adult in the room regarding how to move forward with uh arcade one up yeah yeah enjoy the game never played it on arcade yeah it'd be interesting to play it actually yeah uh with proper joysticks rather than using the old uh joypads uh for those consoles big surprise uh a lot of people uh were mortified shall say that the first appearance of the official uh Pokemon arcade uh the arcade cabinet uh pinball cabinet was at toy fair and you know stern has representation at C S Show early in the uh year beginning of the year and they also have a very strong presence uh at Toy Fair because of uh where their products are being sold beyond you know amusement must represent you know one third of the uh the cake that uh that you know they are making their profits and their business off anyway it was there it got mobbed uh a lot of strong interest from the pinball uh community to actually see it I saw some people actually rushing off to hadn't planned to be attending New York Toy Fair and then rushing off to see it and that has been reflected in our industry we now have the situation our friends at uh electrocoin inform me now that pre-orders for Pokemon uh as well as from other amusement distributors is sold out so even if you want to jump on this bandwagon you're gonna have to wait a few months to get your hands on a on a cabinet this could be the biggest amusement product of the year and the amusement trade hasn't woken up to it yet no no question about it at all it will be and an example of how big Pokemon still is for all those individuals that were telling me that Pokemon wasn't that important you know we see social media gurus and influencers holding four day uh four day events uh to sell one uh mint conditioned Pokemon card for 16 million dollars uh whatever your feelings about the individuals involved or the price of the card or anything it just shows that Pokemon still touches the audience the zeitgeist very deeply and I wouldn't be surprised if someone came out with a reinterpretation of Pokemon Go at the moment it would be another big hit. So you know bear this in mind riding some of these uh IP opportunities early can guarantee that you're in you know in for the big numbers and then of course the last of the big IP toy IP being deployed into the wider market our friends at McDonald's turn around and reported that they dodged a bullet they uh had

VR Stagnation In MENA And LED Rides

SPEAKER_03 57:40

expected to see same same store sales uh to go down uh for the end of the year but they actually saw them rise to a two-year high uh and they put that down to running the Monopoly uh game at their stores as well as the Grinch meals that they were uh supporting with toy uh merch that is just another example of having IP come in and save the day regarding flagging sales moving on and quickly uh to wind up here uh we had the deal show uh the Dubai Entertainment Amusement Leisure exhibition uh it's been going for 32 years this has been a pivotal show the same way that the London show uh that we attended uh offers uh a very unique chance for um operators in and distributors in that territory to see the machines that they're going to have to make bids and orders on uh towards populating their facilities uh for later in the year. Uh deal uh acts as a very strong um bully wick towards uh uh operators that will not make the trip to the US uh a chance to see uh the products that uh uh are out there that they can consider for the vast uh UAE uh business sector as well as the Saudi sector. You know we've had uh a major attendance from uh the the key individuals in the location-based entertainment market in Dubai as usual even though this show had moved its dates earlier in the year for uh reasons I'll go into in a minute the to understand the UAE market as well as the uh really the Middle East and North African market is it is run by distributor much more than we are seeing in the Western market which is now fragmenting uh in in this uh region there are two key distributors with some peripheral distributors but these really hold the purse uh and you know warehouse of gains and our friends at uh ASI really are the individuals that gather the main manufacturers and have the new sweetness and hotness on their booths to wow the next uh cycle of uh machine purchase one of the interesting things we saw from ASI was their major pivot the uh pivot or support the growth of a second business cycle to them of that of pushing products that are targeting Generation Z and fundamentally trying to offer uh competitive socializing and that is the key focus the key trend that we were seeing from uh the exhibitors of this show we had bowling companies there uh as well as uh all of the other competitive socializing manufacturers being represented virtual reality was there but nowhere near in the the numbers that we had previously seen and it was interesting of the three Western VR products we've all seen before from our friends at Sega uh and LAI we uh we also had a number of the Chinese uh exhibitors and remember the Chinese corporations find it easier to exhibit at these events than to go to the North American events and they were they were pushing what I would say older generation VR uh and that kind of was telling that there was still no core

Trade Show Turf War And What’s Next

SPEAKER_03 1:01:26

innovation on the show floor here uh beyond tethered VR experiences either using a motion base or a gun uh mount very telling uh and you know that kind of level of stagnation is not something I would expect and we're now all eyes are trained on the AAA show later in the year in May uh towards where is the VR innovation if it is going to come from the Chinese sector. Innovation we did see was the applications of the latest LED screens now being used as a replacement to projectors and they actually had an example of a six-seater uh what I would call soaring uh attraction uh very compact perfect to be deployed into FEC as well as mid-scale uh location based entertainment uh you know automated offering a fantastic vision going back to what we were talking about earlier about the the invasion of LEDs because the LED doesn't just offer a much brighter uh experience so you don't have to worry uh so much about uh the inclusion and and the visual overlay but it has also creates a much smaller form factor for the attraction when you're not having to worry about projection throw. And then finally at the end of uh deal we had the big announcement uh that the organizers of the show who've been running it for the last 32 years supported by uh the Dubai uh government structure uh as a linchpin show for the sector turned round and said that they have uh taken the decision to transition the responsibility for the exhibition to a new organizer a company called Global Links who I have never had any dealings with at this point in time and the main reason for that impact is really where we are and where we are is the reason why deal had to move to February rather than its usual March location is because the 20 pound gorilla turned up and our friends at Ayalpa launched last year their Ayalpa expo Middle East and they took the uh the decision to open uh to start this first event in Riyadh in Saudi and they're taking over the end of March and April with their show and this has decimated and caused confusion through the region. Deal obviously there's a lot of word on the street of how the situation happened sources suggest and again these are rumors mainly that maybe IALPA had thought about buying deal uh or taking a control in the deal space that didn't happen for various reasons so they created their own show and that caused uh our friends at the Saudi entertainment show to also be blustered and blown away to their main time so they're now going to be impacted and I wouldn't be surprised this time next year we will be looking at a different structure obviously we'll be looking at a totally different structure of deal as they now transition to new ownership and whatever that will bring and of course it depends on how well our friends at the Sea show do in May to see if they survive uh these uh inclement waters and the reason I have that list of shows at the bottom is just to show how crowded the end of February to the uh end of March is regarding shows these are all shows that have merit if you were attending now you know for the for many uh American uh operators and manufacturers you know the Italian shows are are not important to them but the Indian uh IAP uh is very important to a number of manufacturers and distributors I know our friends at UDC will be excuse me exhibiting there and working very hard that is a diaspora market that is growing phenomenally and you have to have a presence and just think about it after doing IAP you're gonna have to jump on a plane and rush all the way over to Amusement Expo and then Amusement Expo is closely followed by the uh bar and restaurant show as well as the Pizza Expo you know this is a crowded period of time and and you Too many shows can impact business. And it's very important to us to understand how the future of these shows are going to have to sort themselves out unless they're going to, you know, cause the chaos that we've seen in the UAE market.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:16

This is exactly the discussion that many of us on the manufacturing supplier and vendor side have been having in text conversations, WhatsApp conversations over the last few months once IAPA Expo Middle East was announced. This is another another one of their now they have four main expos throughout the world. There is rumored that there will be a fifth for Latin America coming up very soon, uh if not in 27, then in 28. And so that now makes five. If you want to be a global exhibitor, it makes five IAP expos you have to go to, in addition, currently, to all of these, to many of these others, uh, depending on what you are, right? If you're an amusement distributor or manufacturer, you very likely have to be at every single one of these if you want mass distribution and growth. And so it is creating complexity and difficulty. And I wouldn't be surprised if the prior organizer of deal saw the writing on the wall and uh decided to exit while they could to this global links organization, knowing that very soon I would be surprised Deal is a thing of the past as I have Expo Middle East really begins to supersede it.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:24

It it was clear from the sources that we had at Deal that it was impacted significantly. The quality of the booths and the number of the exhibitors was impacted by the companies that just said, we have to share, you know, we're going to put more of our investment into the IALPA show than we are uh going to be putting into deal. Some even decided not to attend deal, and they're going to put their support into the IALPA show. That 20-pound gorilla, if it has five shows, you know, you're not going to be sacked from a large corporation for only supporting IALPA shows and maybe sending representation rather than exhibition space to the other shows. And that is going to have a serious impact on the buying habits and on the structure of the market. I understand that it is a benefit to have all of the exhibitions under one umbrella, but sometimes that can be a hindrance to innovation, to investment, and also to uh the structure of the business. And there are some companies that will even walk away from this, and they will not have a gun put to their heads to support one show over another, and they will just go for distribution events, they will have their own private gatherings and maybe send a very small contingent to the key shows. I wouldn't be surprised that certain distributors are going to have to make some hard decisions for 2027 of what shows they're supporting and what shows they're. Go to that link and you'll get details on the LBX, sorry, LBE XR uh zone. Must be getting that mixed up. Uh uh component. And we've already talked about our friends at Pico and VRK being the first to support that. And I have some more information about other supporters coming soon. Anyway, that is more than enough from me. More than enough. Hit me up with any information. Thank you to all of those that uh have passed on uh the Logan arcade information as well as other pieces of detail through our LinkedIn. Uh we have uh stinger reports out there, new ones and uh entertainment social arenas, which I hope you're all up to date on. Uh you don't have to read them, you can listen to them. We have that capability. And if you have any uh other questions or corrections, more likely, uh then please hit us up on the email. Anyway, Brandon, is that enough for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:29

Oh no, I mean it was it was excellent. And uh just but one last thing to add on. Uh there will be a virtual arena coming out tomorrow, um, Tuesday, the 24th. Well, actually, I say tomorrow. We're recording this the day before. It will actually be coming out at the exact same time as this right now. So uh if you haven't subscribed, go ahead and subscribe. And then, you know, if you miss it because you just learned about it today, well then go ahead and subscribe so you get the next one, but you can still go online to lbscollective.com and read up the latest virtual arena. So with that being said, I think that is everything for today. And uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:04

Yeah, let's let's hope it calms down a little bit, but I get the feeling that this is just the beginning of the roller coaster.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:10

Absolutely. All right, another great sound off. We'll see you in the next one.