Sound Off #116 - Disney to buy Epic Games rumor, Black Mirror LBE, & more!

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On this week's show we track the biggest moves reshaping location-based entertainment, from interactive LED game floors becoming real anchor attractions to the messy economics forcing operators to rethink what actually drives repeat play. We debate IP-led growth, VR’s latest shakeout, and why better enclosures, better content, and better ops discipline matter more than hype. 

• illuminated interactive floor systems shifting from add-on to headline attraction 
• vendor consolidation risks around reliability, content libraries, and enclosures 
• NEOM pullback and potential ripple effects across Middle East leisure projects 
• regional show delays and why local events still matter for market support 
• Dave & Buster’s declines, back-to-basics push, and exclusive game strategy 
• limits of relying on film and streaming IP without strong gameplay 
• Disney and Epic Games acquisition rumor, Fortnite, and Unreal Engine leverage 
• celebrity brand fragility through the PopStroke and Tiger Woods situation 
• leadership changes at TEG and expansion positioning across global venues 
• VR closures including Rec Room and Control V as a warning on gen-one stagnation 
• Sandbox pivot toward immersive adventure content and edutainment-style formats 
• Netflix out-of-home momentum with the Black Mirror immersive experience 
• Barbie Dream Fest backlash and the need to police low-quality “experiences” 
• Cloud Play, QR payments, AI optimization, and dynamic pricing possibilities 
• portable arena VR and the next push toward standardized XR deployments 

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Transcript

Welcome And What’s Ahead

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Are you on the edge of your seat? Because we're about to stay with Kevin Williams. Covering today's latest trends in location-based entertainment. Brought to you by the LBX Collective, your community to connect and inspire. All right, everyone. Let's buckle up.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Alright, well, welcome everybody to sound off with Kevin Williams. Kevin, Kevin. It's only like the 116th time I've said that. And uh uh this is for April 7th, 2026. And Kevin, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:38

I am doing fine. As we record this, we have just survived April the 1st, and I would like to point out that there are no April Fool's jokes in any of our coverage.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Okay, perfect, perfect. All right. Well, let's start with figuring out how you're going to change my mind this time.

Interactive LED Floors As Attractions

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Well, we're at that point where we need to uh embrace the brand new entertainment genre. Uh, I've been charting now the installation of uh illuminated interactive floor systems across the market. They have seen an explosion of adoption from really three key providers or manufacturers, though there are lots of Chinese knockoffs. And I I feel that we need to have that laser quest or laser tag moment where we realize that rather than this just being another uh entertainment unit that we stick in the corner, that we are dealing with a dedicated attraction that the public enjoys, enjoys watching others play, and offers a compelling and maybe a higher price point than some operators are actually rolling it out at.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Yeah, I mean, I I think that this is definitely something that we need to be paying, you know. Let me let me back up. I think that there's going to be some consolidation, especially when it comes to this type of active floor, pixel floor, et cetera, whatever we want to, without using any particular brand, um, you know, the active flooring, um, play floor, illuminated floor, whatever we want to call it.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

There's gonna be some illuminated interactive floor games.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

There we go. All right, perfect. Um, and I think there'll be some consolidation, and it'd be you have to be very careful in selecting which vendor you're going to go you know, go forward with based on you know some of those moves and where you think some consolidation might happen.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

The consolidation uh seems to be breaking down into number one, which products are reliable, because this is a high-ware, uh, high game environment, which ones have the right kind of content uh available. We're going to be going through a transition, and we'll be talking about this later uh in this sound off, about the next generation of interactive illuminated uh floor systems as well as wall systems, uh, and the real crux here, which is the enclosure. And uh, I know our friends at Pixel Games was pushing very heavily at uh AEI, their new metal uh total enclosure for their systems, rather than just dropping the floor in and hoping uh that the public will stay away. I feel that we need to come up with a much better middle ground of what the arenas are going to be like to uh uh put these in. The same way that we've gone through what are the arenas needed for the VR uh free roaming experiences, the same way that we originally went through what are the arenas like for laser tech.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Yeah. All right. Well, coming up after the quick break, we'll dive into the economy trends. Intercard is the only catchless system designed, developed, and manufactured all under one roof. They introduced cathless technology to the amusement industry and have been leading the way for over 30 years. Cathless systems from InterCard increase customer spending, get satisfaction, and boost revenues by up to 30%. Intercard is so proud to be serving the amusement industry. And if you are already part of our global family of customers, they hope you will become one too.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Thank you. And

NEOM Pullback And Market Ripples

SPEAKER_00 4:24

jumping into the economical uh enjoyments that we're going through at the moment. And as we touched upon a couple of sound-offs with the commencement of uh the conflict in the Middle East, we are now seeing the beginnings of some of the ripples that uh many of us were expecting to hear about. This is not a surprise. NEOOM has been on the ropes as a concept. Uh, the line, the original megacity that was going to stretch uh multiple miles across the desert, had broken ground, and that was it, uh, during an investment phase, and then suddenly everything came to a crashing hole. But it is now the announcement that the ski loun, uh uh the ski resort, sorry, uh facility, the ambitious ski resort facility, has now seen that its steel and concrete uh development team pull out as well as the architectural team pull out, to hear about some of the other leisure entertainment components that surrounded the whole concept of NEOM have also been suspended. This is a good time to bury bad news, and it seems that uh the uh Saudi ministry are using this period to uh close down the ambition of NEOM and refocus on what their business model needs to be going forward in the changed international environment.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yeah, and nothing like uh international crisis to announce the uh cancellation of some of these big things that were on the ropes anyway.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Most most media services who received Largeste from uh the NEON uh investment team will obviously just push this to the back and claim that they had other things to talk about uh rather than this. But for those of us that keep an eye on the Middle East uh leisure and entertainment sector, the loss of these projects will have ripples across other projects that are either in development or consideration. Uh, I wouldn't be surprised if we hear a slowing down of the Disney project, for example. Yes, indeed.

Regional Shows And Event Delays

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Moving on to the beers, and it's been crowded. It must be something about March Madness that has uh got everybody jumping around. Well, finally, uh the postponement of uh the sea event was confirmed. Uh so from the uh promises of May to uh jumping to uh now an August. So this is a real postponement rather than a cancellation that our friends at Ialpa went through. Um let's hope that August brings better wins for their event.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Uh I I understand they're probably under different contracts and things in their facilities or you know for their venue, uh, but uh I don't have a lot of high hopes for an August uh you know event either.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

I think we will hear news around July time regarding uh this operation uh and plans for events and even possibly relocations under a combined show. But I don't want to get ahead of ourselves. There's a lot of rumors flowing around about how to redress the need to support the entertainment market. For all we say about international travel and uh the problems in the Middle East, there's still the local community there that needs to be served, and they will still need to uh purchase uh product, and not all of them are going to be able to jump on a plane and come to Ayalpa Europe or Ayalpa Orlando. So a regional show serves a very strong importance. It's just how to get it to work uh cost effectively, is the issue going forth.

Dave And Buster’s Back To Games

SPEAKER_00 8:19

The big one. So our lovely friends at Dave and Busters finally uh released their latest numbers, and there's only so much lipstick you can put on a pig. And the key issues were we saw declines, declines, declines. We saw a uh decline in revenue and we saw a decline in same store sales. And the new incumbent CEO did the best job he could do during the investor call and during the written statements for the report stating that the 5% decline in same uh store sales was mainly due to bad weather and uh that he is working on a let's see, a brand new back to basic strategy which seems to gain uh meaningful traction. Well, we're happy that he's happy. Uh but the the realities are that the financial markets have placed uh their investments uh and their ratings of their shares on hold. Now I know that that is a neutral position rather than sell, but it's a neutral position where no actions will be taken until they see the writing on the wall in a couple of months' time and we have the next financial reportings that will include some of the 2026 number. And this is really where we're wondering how this strategy, uh uh, this back-to-basic strategy, is going to uh generate those bums on seats and those beers in bellies that is needed to bring Dave and Busters back to a successful position in the entertainment market. And part of that is going to be generated by a strategy of returning to the one thing that the previous management didn't seem to care much about, which is games. Uh, they're now talking about having 10 new games exclusive to Dave and Busters, undertimed exclusives, uh appearing in their facilities over the next 12 months. We're already beginning to see the start of that process. We have the human crane machine, which is a unique uh entertainment experience to Dave and Busters-ish. There are other venues that now have the uh human-powered entertainment, but Dave and Busters is trying to make it their own. They have just signed and started to install uh the John Wicks game from our friends at uh Blue Motion Games that uh we were reporting on in our AE coverage. And sources confirmed that there is a Stranger Things game from a well-known manufacturer, I can't pass that embargo yet, uh, that will be rolling out. These are exclusives under time limits. Dave and Busters gets these games for 60 days or longer under exclusive. No one else can have them until the end of that exclusivity, and then everybody can jump on the bandwagon. But it is this hope of using film IP from Lionsgate and streaming IP from Netflix that will uh guarantee uh at least the initial return of uh punters to their eatertainment facility.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Brandon? Uh well look, I mean, I appreciate the back to basics focus on games. I mean, that's what Daven Busters has been, you know, has done uh along with sports. Uh I think sports viewing being a sports bar with you know mediocre food uh has been a key part of the Dave and Busters brand as well. Um, but you know, I think two two thoughts. One to blame the decline in revenue on weather. Uh I would say, how do you know what the weather is if your head is in the sand? And um, yeah, and so you know, at 150 177 stores and counting, um, which I think is even more than that now, this is that it's as of uh late last year, um, then you know, like you can't blame weather on 177 stores poor performance. Uh that being said, look, I appreciate that they're trying to focus on bringing new games, exclusive games back in. I think it's going to come down to marketing those games and really making sure the word gets out that you have John Wick and Stranger Things, et cetera, and these larger brands and the human crane. Uh that's one of the things they did really poorly was marketing and rebranding their social base. And so, you know, they threw the baby out with the bathwater without warming up the bathwater in the first place to try to mix metaphors, you know, and uh and getting people in and trying it out. Um, I'm I I always struggle and cringe a bit when there's too much reliance on IP to bring people in the door. Uh, hopefully, the gameplay, and we already know a little bit about the John Wick experience or the John Wick game, um, but uh hopefully the Stranger Things game uh will be, you know, it you're not gonna get the repeat play if the gameplay isn't good itself. So it doesn't matter what kind of IP you throw on something, you've got to have a good game and a good experience that's gonna drive repeat visitation and repeat play to drive up that per cap. And hopefully this works for them, but I do question whether or not grabbing a bunch of IP is going to do the trick.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

I'm sure the uh team at Netflix House will say thank you very much for proving uh the validity of uh the Stranger Things IP for us. Uh uh and I I would uh advise the C-suite at Dave and Busters that maybe Netflix IP may become less and less scarce to, or more and more scarce to them as uh the uh the bigger machine uh enters the market. Let's be clear. There are 243 facilities out there, not all of them are Dave and Busters. We also need to include our lovely friends, the 63 uh uh selection of main event products that are uh are part of that mix. And again, again, again, we have a uh investor statement that has the mention of main event only once in uh the statement, and it was only mentioned briefly uh regarding the number of updated facilities that Dave and Busters has been going through. One day the truth will get out about the same sales, uh same store sales uh that are being achieved by main event, let alone what is being achieved by Dave and Busters. And I have an awful feeling that there'll be a lot of red face. I keep on wanting to see that uh McDonald's moment. I want to see the new C-suite uh of Dave and Busters actually playing the games that they are that's crazy. Yeah, I know. I'd love to I'd love to see that. I'd love to see them eat one of their chicken wing selections or one of their burgers and keep a straight face. These are the these are the things where it's nice to hide in the lofty towers of the C-suite, but when the uh investors aren't happy, you're gonna have to get down in the trenches and play a game and eat a burger.

Disney Rumors Around Epic Games

SPEAKER_00 15:38

One that snuck through a couple a couple of hours ago uh while compiling this, but the rumors on the street are that uh Disney is uh actively looking to invest in acquiring epic games. This is part of my transmedia bullywick. Uh this will allow Disney, who has the reverse Midas touch when it comes to touching game development studios, to uh grab another game development studio and bring it, well, game publisher studio and bring it under its fold. Obviously, this is being done for the Fortnite acquisition, and uh the Disney board felt very strongly that they had success with their Disney investment into uh the IP edition into Fortnite. Uh, I would also point to the new CEO, also the new president CEO of uh Disney is an alleged gamer. Hello fellow kids. Uh and we are really seeing Disney looking at positioning itself against what it is seeing from our friends at Netflix and Apple and others uh in the streaming war of having to have an interactive entertainment component to your streaming positioning. Uh currently, Epic's Games is valued at about $22 billion. Um, Disney has access to that type of money, though it would have to uh you know go into Mickey's uh pants suit and pull out some small change. This would be a uh Iger-esque kind of move. Um I feel that it is not the best time to start buying consumer video game companies as we've seen uh our friends at Epic Games already dump a thousand members of staff as they restructure themselves. This may be a ballsy move for the long term of Disney, or this may be another uh 20th century Fox kind of stumble.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Hmm, yeah, maybe. So I I feel a little bit more bullish on this than you know, potentially a Fox uh Fox acquisition. Um, primarily because one, they've they've had a great uh you know partnership already with the launch of their Disney experience on Fortnite, you know, basically their own world. Um yeah, they did, right? And they have lots of their IP loaded in as skins inside of Fortnite as well. Um, but I think what's really interesting is this gives them some real chops on the video game development front, uh, and something that they have lacked uh for a while. And even more interestingly, here, which is a little bit different than just buying a pure game developer, is that they would also be getting, presumably anyway, if they're buying the full Epic Games um set of assets, is they get Unreal Engine. And Unreal Engine is right now um the one of the most popular game development tools out there for both game development and also even um high-end uh VR and AR and other experiences uh you know are using Unreal Engine to develop their experiences as well, not just uh video games. And uh right now, I think at least according to some of the quick research I did here, 28% of the games released in 2024 uh were using Unreal Engine. And uh and so I think that that's uh g getting acquiring a platform in addition to a game development studio, in addition to one addition one of the most popular games on the planet, is uh potentially not a bad move for Disney for their transmedia efforts.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

For their transmedia efforts, they buy a metaverse. This is the thing that uh Zuckerberg would have loved to have had. Fortnite was always held up as an example of a kind of metaverse approach. Uh, you've touched upon the biggest uh cherry in this deal, which is uh a development studio uh capability to have the tools and to be a leading tool. It gives them a seat at the video game table uh right at the top, uh, and also would allow them to pressurize Apple through the Epic Games legal statutes that are going on at the moment. I would argue, though, that Disney claiming that they haven't been in the video game sector before is kind of like the kid that's murdered his parents and then starts complaining about being an orphan. Disney had Lucas Games, Disney had Disney Game Studio, and they murdered them because of C-suite meddling and an inability of top management to understand what the fellow kids wanted to play. This would be a very crucial moment for them. If Disney did a Star Wars on epic games, then I think every investor would burn down the ranch. But we will have to wait and see if this even becomes a thing because rumors do not butter many parsnips.

Geigo Expansion And Celebrity Brand Risk

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Our Gander moment, uh, and we are really looking at the explosion of uh Gender's Geigo uh Empire, uh, the opening of their first Shanghai China facility, um, you know, bringing the uh Geigo model, the uh the coloring, the branding, as well as the DX AI supported player engagement uh approach. This is a highly automated and well-run machine now, and uh it is starting to appear in China. Uh the world domination tour continues.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Yeah. Period. Also, by the way, um I don't know the last time you've buttered a parsnip, but I know I certainly have not buttered a parsnip recently. But uh yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

If you want to get them succulent for your Christmas deal, you do have to butter them. Or even better, lard. I'm a lard fan on that. It is an old English expression, though, buttering parsnips. Okay. Sorry to show my age. Uh so uh you've got uh you know uh five point eight million. Burning a hole in your pocket, and Texas looks like a great place to open up a competitive socializing venue. Hey, you just open a pop strokes, and we have the latest pop strokes uh opening uh big brands, you know, outdoor entertainment uh facility and part of a 22 chain. And the great thing is you're supported by a really leading character in the uh golfing area, so you've got it all. You've got a brand that is supported by oh oh oh yeah. Well, you had a brand supported by Tiger Woods, but uh yet again he found out that bottle and steering wheel doesn't work well. Uh luckily, and I always say this luckily, no one was injured other than his ego uh in this uh latest DUI. And this seems to have been the latest straw to break the latest Tiger Woods back. Uh, he has now stated that he'll be removing himself from all of his uh brands and properties and uh sporting engagements while he goes off to seek help for his obvious problem. That kind of hurts pop strokes. Every time now you mention pop strokes, you used to mention the Tiger Woods uh involvement. And this is a perfect example of why having a celebrity rather than a mascot uh uh is uh much easier to manage, uh, especially a celebrity that had quite an uh uh incendiary history. Um even though poor old Chuck E. Cheese was seen frog marched in handcuffs outs uh out of a store, on general your mascot doesn't usually uh go for a drink and a drive uh or get involved in other criminal escapades. It is important to understand that Pop Strokes is going to have to rebrand itself quite considerably now uh based upon what it's uh uh experiencing with its current situation.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Yeah, I mean that's absolutely true. To the point that you see here, even right on their right on their their pylons and along the courses, it's tiger, it's the tiger red course. There's a tiger blue course. Uh he is deeply, you know, his brand is deeply infused in an organic.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

And if you go into the parking lot, there's the tiger woods parking bay right next door to the bar. Oops, sorry, only joking.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

There isn't that, but there are Tiger Woods quotes um embedded into the concrete and in other places throughout the facility. So this will definitely be something that the t uh, you know, the pop stroke developers are going to have to really strongly consider as uh you know as he's working through these issues.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

We we f we feel for him. Uh um first time we were uh unhappy and appalled and wished him strength. The second time we're worried that he's not getting the right help from those around him or uh the right structure. Either way, we're not here to judge the man, we're here to judge the brand. And if you're pop strokes, you're going to have to make a serious decision. Do you stand by your tiger, swallow it, carry on, and know that uh his history of golfing excellence will never be expunged as long as he doesn't overdo uh the incidences and he can come out of this a better individual, or do you just do what many brands have done and slowly ease away from the core uh sports person and just focus upon the experience that you're offering?

Leadership Moves In Global LBE

SPEAKER_00 25:44

This won't be the first time that we've seen this. Moving on, and we've been talking about at the beginning of the year the musical chairs taking place, and we have more uh taking place. Uh our friends at uh TG in Australia and Indonesia and uh Singapore, Vietnam, and India. You know, their coverage is well known. We've talked about the time zone and the Kingpin brands as well as their other brands. They have been going through restructuring. We've talked about their uh updating of the time zone and the zone bowling facilities and the increased rollout, and now they've brought in a very safe pair of hands uh as uh their new managing director of the group. And the group also includes some other uh operations within the periphery, but this is quite a considerable C-suite injection and kind of points towards what our friends at TEG are planning to do going forwards.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Uh yeah, interesting. I mean, he came uh just recently out of a year-long sabbatical um before coming from a uh a public company and the food company. So he has leadership and he has uh you know uh the public company uh experience, uh C-suite leadership experience, but he doesn't have any entertainment and amusement experience. And so it will be interesting, you know, and hopefully, you know, for a while he's going to have to rely on those around him to help him fill in those gaps. But you know, he does have a great uh CEO and C-suite pedigree. Um hopefully he can uh quickly gain the pedigree in amusement and entertainment.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

And he won't have a lot of time to learn, so this is going to be hitting the road running. Uh another uh new entrant, uh well no, no, sorry, not new entrant, new holder position, but uh uh a name from the Holoviz uh company. Uh Stuart is now uh taking on the global director of uh business development. Uh Holoviz, of course, is behind the 360 Golf uh properties as well as many uh media-based entertainment uh installations for Merlin and other companies out there. They have a very strong and ambitious rollout plan for competitive socializing projects, for media-based attractions, as well as some other surprises that uh uh are in the works. And uh we're gonna be keeping a very close eye uh on exactly what happens next with Holoviz as it positions itself as a major player in the international entertainment scene.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Interesting.

VR Reality Check And Closures

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Moving on, and on the consumer side of uh the VR roller coaster, and we have the next shoe drop of the multitude of shoes that are dropping. It is surprising, you know, that meta investment money dries up, and then suddenly the whole structure seems to show uh that it's got a little bit of uh rot in the beams. Rec Room, one of the oldest uh of the multipla or mass multiplayer VR experiences, hailed as a success in the market, uh given an evaluation by sum of $3.5 billion, suddenly ends March by saying, you know what, guys, we're closing down. And using the excuse we never quite figured out how to make rec rooms a sustainable, profitable business, isn't the type of phraseology. It's kind of so long and thanks for all the fish. You can't have it both ways, you can't claim that this was a valuable and super and amazing infrastructure and the technology was compelling and pulling people in, and then say, oops, no, it's not making any money, we're closing it down. For all of the millions, uh over 150 million users or players of Rec Room, this is a slap in the face, and this will add to the loss of traction of their headsets. You know, if they can't play Rec Room and they're not into uh guerrilla tag, then uh that uh uh headset is going to be gathering dust in the uh the cupboard. And from an investor's point of view, you can't believe anything that anyone in the consumer VR sector has said over the last 10 years because as soon as the cash cow, the gravy train, as Meta called it, uh hit the buffers, was taken away, then suddenly all of the awnings come down.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Wow. Yeah, this is uh this is a big hit. Uh this is a big hit to the VR, consumer VR industry. Absolutely. This is not a good sign of uh, you know, I'd be worried if uh, well, maybe not worried if they're if I'm another VR company, you know, like a guerrilla tag that's doing well, you know, a VR game studio. But uh I don't know, right? But they're you know, it's because we don't know. Like we presumably, you know, we heard Rec Room is a $3.5 billion valuation at one point. And uh so you would assume that they're either profitable or at least somewhat sustainable or able to go and raise additional capital. Um so this is a uh this is a really interesting, fast, you know, fast-moving, you know, 10-year run from a 2016 founding to a 2026 collapse.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

And another example of a 10-year run that has come to an end from our point of view is uh our uh friends of Control V. Now, Control V at their height had about 11 uh VR arcade facilities dotted around Canada. Then recently, after COVID, they shrunk down to about six facilities, then four, uh they opened a North American facility, but in a statement that was made at uh near the end of March, that's it. You know, thank you very much. It's been very enjoyable 10 years. We've you know established many things regarding VR Arcade, but boom, we're closing down everything. Now, a little bit more information was given to me uh by the team that not all of the facilities are closing down, that one of them, the one in North America, sorry, in the uh in the USA, will be uh staying open, uh, but now not part of the Control V franchise, uh, and that the guys are going to go off to do other things. They they hadn't actually alluded if they were going to stay in the location-based entertainment market. But I take from this, not that it was a failure, but it was a failure to adapt to the changing market. Uh Control V really did underline what it was needed to make a profitable VR arcade facility using the Gen 1 technology, the older uh HTC VIES with that notorious cable from the ceiling and the controllers and a wide selection of PC VR games, but needed specialist uh capabilities to run them. And they successfully ran that, and other people emulated what uh control V had done. It was interesting that the short-lived failure that was IMAX VR facilities borrowed heavily from what they thought they had taken away from the control V concept, only to find that they may have taken the baby, but they forgot the bath water. Now we see that Control V, in its inability to embrace arena scale VR uh and the free roaming aspects, uh, not improving its brand, you know, uh its brand identity, its positioning in a crowded market, never changed. The the team behind it were adamant that they put more energies into uh the operational tools than into the uh perceived market positioning, and they have paid the price. They didn't grow after COVID uh uh exponentially, which they needed to have done, and where the sandbox VRs of this generation have zoomed off into the uh 80s and 90s facilities, they've been left behind. This is a salient tale, which is if you're generation one focused with your VR, then you're going to bound to fail uh unless you're going to embrace the next generation. It's called a revolution because that wheel keeps on turning and you can't stay still.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

100%. If you're trying to be on the bleeding edge of a an attraction technology, then you must absolutely continue to be on that bleeding edge because it the edge will continue to move forward. And if you're not staying up to date, up to speed, and evolving aggressively and quickly, then you will fall behind and you will end up having to close your doors.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

It will be interesting with the next generation of XR technology installation that we're seeing, and we are seeing it, how many of those people will learn lessons from our friends at IMAX VR, let alone control V. And uh, as it's you know, as the Chinese curse always says, if you forget your history, you'll be constantly cursed to repeat it. And I wouldn't be surprised if we're not going to see in a maybe another 10 years the next uh coming of uh the Grim Reaper to uh uh you know really sort out this market. But again, this is the ending of a generation, and we're now moving to the next generation of XR support.

Immersive Adventures And Netflix In LBE

SPEAKER_00 35:39

And our friends at uh Sandbox have seen the writing in the sand, as it were, and they have decided to enter a very crowded part of the next generation. So from the VR arcade environment tethered to the free roaming uh VR experience, now to the interactive VR uh experience, still with four players, uh, but Sandbox has now developed their first uh what I would call virtual adventure style product, which isn't shooting zombies or trying to complete squid game puzzles, but it is narrow uh navigating through a uh world of wonder uh supported by the Natural History Museum and the dulcet tones of an English uh uh academic as you uh look at large dinosaurs walking past you. And this is a proven model because uh along with Sandbox doing it, our friends at Eclipso have done it, and our friends at Dive Lab have done it.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Yeah, yeah, I mean, and this is obviously a dramatized version of what you're experiencing. With no headsets. Yeah, with no headsets. This always drives me crazy, you know, when they when they're yeah, there we go. See, so they put the headsets on and they were inside this uh you know, this experience. So this is the age of the dinosaurs. And uh look, you know, this is great that they have created something that is more edutainment or at least experiential than peer shoot-em-up uh type experiences that they've had um prior to this.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

It's interesting that all of the companies that have developed this kind of stuff always use in their marketing videos the they ain't wearing headsets, uh kind of uh filmography.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

We also have to wonder why, because people don't like wearing headsets.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Yeah, who would have thunk it? You know, the the thing we need to be mindful of is that this is a generational point, you know, back in uh uh uh uh 2018 when uh the ambition of Dreamscape uh immersion received all that lovely money from Steven Spielberg to roll out their ambitions of you know 30, 40, 50 facilities dotted around the world using backpack PCs and uh free roaming. They had their very famous uh Alien Zoo experience, which was near enough an immersive dinosaur uh uh uh kind of narrative. So history is repeating itself, but it's very important to understand that for Sandbox, this is a considerable pivot to try and stay relevant with a changing market. And that changing market is the immersive adventure experience. We are being inundated. If it isn't uh the Felix and Paul experience at Area 15 that we were talking about recently, it is now the Black Mirror experience uh that uh Eunice uh has uh developed, which is funny enough opening at a venue not a million miles away from where Felix and Paul's space VR experience first opened many years ago. But in Montreal, the Infinity Experience uh facility will have the Black Mirror experience. It's a walkthrough, which includes virtual reality, free roaming uh components to the experience. Very interesting. Another Netflix out-of-home entertainment experience dotting up. We've talked about our friends at Dave and Busters having uh Netflix experiences in their in their facility. We now have uh the standalone uh VR Netflix experience. How long before Black Mirror Experience turns up in a Netflix house?

SPEAKER_02 39:30

What I find interesting about this as well, at least based on the description on their website, is that you this is a mix of both VR and physical experiences. So uh it will not be just pure VR, it will have a mix. It is a 60-minute experience that you go through.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Like spaces, like all of them.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Yep, yep, exactly. And so they call it an immersive journey, and uh you know, you have this little AI companion who's that little guy in the middle of that that uh you know train right there that's guiding you through everything.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

The the standard narrative storytelling, uh, I'm I wouldn't be surprised if it's a physical character while you're in the uh non-VR components and then it transitions. But again, uh we'll have to try it out for ourselves. Uh the Black Mirror experience will be leading off of its recognition factor from its Netflix TV series, so it'll be fascinating to see how well it does in the Montreal opening, and then it starts its traversing as a pop-up experience. Very much how the Felix and Paul uh Spaces experience started, and we've seen what's happened with their progression towards ARC, Interstellar ARC.

Barbie Dream Fest And Experience Policing

SPEAKER_00 40:47

And then we have the Charlie Chocolate Factory moment. Hey, let's take one of the most popular toy brands known to man and get Mattel to support our Barbie Dream Fest, and then we take over a warehouse and clear concrete floors and a couple of props, and then we start selling high-level tickets for hundreds of dollars, and we give away Barbie-themed hand sanitizers as the gift at the end. This is a plane crash yet again, yet again, yet again. This time, though, hiding behind fandom. So rather than just selling itself as a uh entertainment uh attraction for Christmas or for the holidays or uh being located, this was sold to the hardcore Barbie fans. And those are the type of people I wouldn't want to piss off. So I look forward to seeing what the real repercussions of this train wreck are going to be. The media's already jumped upon it. I noticed that the Mattel uh branding was still at the bottom of their website. So Mattel hasn't closed them down yet for this event. Uh, I'm sure they got paid uh already, and maybe that's where all the money went uh rather than in the attractions.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

I don't understand how we keep doing this. Uh and I don't mean the I mean you know, the yeah, well, okay, fair money, but um, I mean, this is no policing from the trade. Yeah, I mean, this is unbelievable. Looking at some of the pictures here. So if you have a chance to do that, if you want to go and just Google Barbie Dream Fest and look at some of the pictures, it will just be uh, you know, cringing, cringe worthy uh experience that this was. Um, it was not an experience, it was yeah, basically a large open warehouse with some things set up, and it's just uh appalling.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

And it's a knock, you know, no matter what uh certain bodies may say, oh, it's not us, these uh these people always scam and all of that. We are associated by just by it being an entertainment experience, by using the nomenclature. Uh, I would actually also argue that uh a smart trade association would have a word with Mattel and they would both police this situation together to show a united front and try and close the door on future attempts at this. What's it going to take? Is it going to take injury of guests at a badly maintained experience? Is it going to take uh violence from angry attendees before the industry realizes that we can't keep on allowing the Charlie Chocolate factory situation to keep on happening? And we are big enough, ugly enough, and rich enough as a trade association to manage this. Personal opinion, I'll get off my high horse now. There is the Taurus of Pain for all of you that are trying to keep up with where these entertainment offerings fit. Uh, I left the box. Barbie experience on there, but it should have actually just fallen off the gallery uh end of the tour as a water mess.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely brutal. Um, all right. Well, coming up after the break, we'll have the trends in technology. How are your game floors arcades by Alan One? Whether it's perfectly 43 to Dr. Pepper's notice plan, having officials like something flexible, or defending cities to attack a missile command retard. Alan One has something to every venue in arcade floor that delight your guests. Each game is also enhanced literally each floor. Free app that tracks player top scores and brings guests back to your venue for more. Visit Allendax1.com to learn more. That's AlanDash1.com.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Thank you.

Next Gen LED Floors And Enclosures

SPEAKER_00 44:47

And moving into the tech. And as we said uh at the beginning, that the Illuminated Interactive Floor Game Experience would be going through transitions and uh reinterpretations and technological advancements. Uh, we have seen our friends at Moment Factory uh really move forward with their concepts. Now, under the uh playground uh uh branding, and our friends at Lane 7 have snapped up the first uh uh of these units uh to put in their locations. So they have done what I said uh right at the beginning and dedicated uh these interactive floors as major attractions alongside their bowling, alongside their AR darts, alongside their amusement, as their own standalone audience multiplayer game experiences. And uh I look forward to seeing how many other venues look towards this approach. The illuminated uh floor systems, the early generations use the big tiles, they're uh they're robust, but they don't have the same uh digital fidelity, the fidgetal element that I think you will need to have to stay uh up to date with this type of technology. And remember, this isn't just being aimed at a children's market like most of the interactive floor systems. This is uh a much more kiddult-friendly uh game experience.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

I really enjoy this uh Moment in fact Moment Factory's playground experience. I've had a chance to play it, to test it out, and uh they've done a phenomenal job. Their early iterations were with projection mapped, and uh they they tracked in real time. The these later iterations are an actual LED floor, which are much brighter and obviously uh you know much more responsive from a tracking standpoint. Um, that being said, I am kind of shocked that they would do exclusivity with lane seven. Obviously, lane seven has some uh some expansion opportunities. There has to be some sort of time period here, like we see with exclusivity in Dave and Busters. Um, and then there also has to be potentially some regional, some regionality to that exclusivity as well, since lane seven is primarily a UK-based uh you know organization.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

For the sake of transparency, I had some involvement with uh Moment Factory when they first looked at taking their museum concept uh interactive uh floor system and move it into the location-based entertainment sector. And we did suggest very heavily that to uh establish the product, they should go for the Dave and Busters model, a limited time exclusivity with uh a leading company. I know that there are other companies now very interested to also share in that, and we know that there's a very small window for this because everybody is now looking at LED floor and wall uh systems as being the next big impetus in the XR uh environment, the fidgetal uh environment.

Cloud Play QR Payments And Dynamic Pricing

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Technology uh from Japan that will have some impact uh on us in the uh Western market. We looked, there was a clear 10 years between my first reporting of QR codes in the Stinger report and then the appearance of QR codes uh as a marketing tool uh in the uh location-based Western market. And I'm going to ram that flag into the ground again and say that the launch of Cloud Play by DGFT uh looks like it could be a very unique platform for the next generation of smartphone interaction with gaming systems, both on pay and uh interaction with the facility uh and their systems. It is a very, it really is a digital transformation tool, right up uh Gender's uh bully wick, I'm sure. Uh, and it is supported by AI smart uh calculations. Uh so the you know the machine learning will be able to track patterns of users uh and also could be implemented to what we were talking about in a previous sound off, uh, actually having uh uh changeable pricing models based upon uh activities. This is a uh a tool or an app that is now being launched and established in Japan. Count to five, and let's see how long it is before our uh contactless payment uh providers in the industry will turn towards incorporating this level of fidelity.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

Yeah. Yeah, I think the QR code payment model as well lends, really lends to the real-time pricing updates, uh especially if you can have it optimized by AI. Um you don't have to push those pricing updates directly to the reader necessarily and have that uh just updated through software available after you scan a static QR code.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

And it can be used for marketing, and you can uh pay-for-play facility where maybe you say, Yes, I don't mind receiving adverts every time I swipe to play or gather information, and then suddenly you're monetizing that. You know, there are lots of options of this kind of approach compared to a passive uh swipe card can bring to the table. Again, what the uh Western market's usage of smartphones will be like in 10 years is anyone's guessing.

Japan’s Immersive Cubes And VR IP

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Our friends uh Taito have uh been rolling out now their immersive enclosure system. They have uh developed the cube some time ago, around the same time that uh uh Immersive Game Box was being uh uh conceived and all of the other concepts. Uh Taito developed their cube system that really is a four-player floor and wall projection system environment. Uh, it is putting you in this heart of the arcade machine. It's been a slow rollout. They've been using it as a centerpiece attraction in certain of their venues. Now they have uh decided that they're going to drop the cube 5D immersive attraction into their other venues. So we will see many of their uh Taito stations now, including an immersive entertainment attraction, the next generation away from VR.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Moving on, and again in Japan uh have celebrations for Dragon Quest's anniversary. Who can believe it's 40 years? Um, anyway, Dragon Quest, extremely popular uh MMO uh in the Japanese market, uh being turned into multiple games, and now it's being turned into its own VR experience uh that is being run as part of uh the uh location uh museum as well as uh entertainment component. Jump on a motion seat, put on MetaQuest helmets, be dropped into a unique virtual environment based upon Dragon's Quest rinse and repeat. It seems a simple approach. I raise an eyebrow that they're using MetaQuest uh as their head mount of choice, though I know that Meta Japan is much more friendlier to location-based entertainment deployment of their technology than some of the other divisions. But again, would this be something that would work in uh the Western market? I think so.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Maybe, maybe. I mean, I think it depends on uh you know, we we talk about VR sims, VR rides, etc. Um, I think for those IP does matter. And as long as this type of IP is relevant here for the you know North American market, then yeah, I think it could work. I just don't know if this particular IP is relevant here.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

Yes, again, I'd need to do some research. I know how popular in the Asian market uh Dragon Quest was, but again, I'm I would need to see the numbers of uh what it has achieved. But just as a you know simple bit of spitballing and free consultancy, Relix takes this content, reskins one of their systems, drops it into an entertainment facility, preferably next door to a GameStop, if there's still one open, and sees if it does traction. If it does traction, bish bash bosh. Doesn't take a lot, changing uh the uh availability of the hardware to suit the market, going back to what we were saying uh regarding our friends uh to control V.

Portable VR Arenas For Operators

SPEAKER_00 53:58

Uh here is an example of the continuation of the evolution of what you're offering the operators to make it uh so the same way that an operator will look at an uh interactive illuminated gaming floor system, that same space can either be an interactive floor or it could be a pop-up uh VR arena, meaning that operators that were sitting on the fence about actually having uh a high-level VR system in their facility of having a VR arena that didn't have the Eth Robinson skills to get the current technology to work, they can now go to our friends at uh HeroZone and buy HeroZone Go. Six headsets can come optionally with the vests, uh pop up uh flooring and uh enclosure and uh turn of a key in a couple of uh hours, you've got a VR arena system generating the same kind of revenue that I would assume you could generate from the interactive floor system. Uh no, a little higher, obviously, because you're going to charge a lot more for VR experience than you are for an interactive floor experience. But and our friends at uh uh Dive Labs uh during the AEI show also launched their dive lab Go system, which is a portable system uh which allows you to pop up uh this kind of approach. We've been here before. Uh pop-up VR systems under the tethered VR Generation Ones were very popular and they made some money, and they forced operators to then consider dedicating space to VR experiences. And I get the feeling that we're at that history repeating itself. I'm looking forward to seeing how the market will consolidate, where back in the Generation One days, every man and his dog was trying to sell you a VR enclosure uh setup. Now we're going to be down to two or three core manufacturers of this type of technology, which will allow us a little bit more traction and much more focus on content rather than on technology.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Yeah, I do appreciate the standardization Herozone is is trying to do here, as well as the portability to some extent. So if you've got a small space, you want to just test out what it would be like to have an arena style small format VR uh platform, then you've got this uh this your Herozone Arena Go option.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

This will appeal to the inflatable guys, this will appeal to the party room guys, this will appeal to the pop-up party uh and events guys. You know, this is much more than just uh an amusement system, it also sits in other aspects of the attraction and entertainment sector. And I wouldn't be surprised if this starts another uh uh acceleration, but rather than being VR, the next acceleration is going to be much more XR because if you're using head-mounted displays for VR, then what's to stop you using spectacles and having this as a uh universe kind of system?

Cyberpunk And The IP Licensing Pipeline

SPEAKER_00 57:14

And then that's IP. That IP is King and uh our friends at zero latency. What was it? Last year they were pushing the um Warhammer 40k IP, and the year before that they were pushing uh the fair uh the Far Cry uh uh Ubisoft IP. Well, they're now pushing the Cyberpunk uh 2077 IP, very successful video game, um, lots of brand recognition when I uh uh ran their uh the breaking news of this uh development that Zero Latency would be creating a cyberpunk game experience or have, and they will be launching it soon. Uh, this was trending very highly uh on our social media. So there is that interest out there from the playing audience, especially the playing audience in the consumer VR sector, who recently lost access to their VR version of uh Cyberpunk, and so were a little bit salty about the loss, but also uh could attest that the uh cyberpunk universe is a good one to play in VR. One of the phrases, I was just gonna say one of the phrases I liked was uh Tim, the head of uh Zero Latency, was using the phrase human scale uh regarding playing this video game on the uh zero latency immersive virtual reality arena system compared to how some people like to call this warehouse scale. And I've never been a fan of uh uh warehouse scale, so let's hope human scale catches on. Sorry, Brandon.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Um no, I mean I think that uh whether or not it's VR or a uh a shooting game, a shooting gallery or a uh a racer, apparently Cyberpunk is now the new IP, and um you know maybe we're gonna see uh you know an angry uh an Angry Birds competitor. There we go. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

It is the transmedia bullywick that uh I have uh stuck myself on top of, and it is just being writ large. All of those that raised an eyebrow and when Kevin's just going off on one, um, I'm sure they have deleted those comments from the post. The issue is we have seen Cyberpunk, a video game, uh 13 uh sorry, 300 million downloaded uh content uh packaged software transfer from the PC gaming market and the console gaming market to uh as uh Brandon alluded to, LAI putting it into a shooter. Um, our friends at Unis just now completing their motorbike racer, and now we have an arena VR uh experience. Angry Birds. I'll be here a while if I listed all of the applications of Angry Birds into the amusement and attraction section. We've touched upon already Stranger Things, but we could really just put up the Netflix badge there and just say anything that Netflix spits out that gets traction gets uh turned into John Wicks. You know, Lionsgate is no stranger, it's a location-based entertainment, and I wouldn't be surprised if their experience team isn't working on a much greater position. And of course, our friends at Sony Pictures with Jumanji now getting two bites of the cherry because uh our friends uh at uh zero latency are working on a uh uh arena VR experience based on the film property, as well as our friends at uh TrioTech. This is where we're going, and we're only a matter of weeks away, well months away from licensing expo in Las Vegas, where we will expect to see the next tranche. I was led to believe by uh a colleague I was speaking to who's working uh on the John Wicks uh package that the actual deal for the John Wicks amusement uh system was developed through uh their attendance of licensing expo uh a few years ago. And I wouldn't be surprised if we will see other properties migrate into our sector from both sides uh due to that. But also remember we have in a couple of weeks' time CinemaCon coming up, and a lot of these IP are from the cinema and streaming sector.

AWE Plans And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

Moving on, and we have also in a couple of months' time uh the Augmented World Expo. Uh we have the LBEXR zone, which is uh beginning to fill up nicely, uh and we're just getting down now to the panel sessions that we're going to be covering uh at the event. We're also in discussions, maybe we'll have some social events linked to the uh location-based entertainment side of the XR uh cherry. We are becoming much more relevant in the faces of the VR and the XR industry. The consumer side seems to be going through a little bit of a uh a baptism of fire, and now the investors are looking more towards the opportunities of uh the XR LBE positioning, and we hope to reflect that uh at the event. Anyway, I've bored you long enough. Uh please hit me up on LinkedIn if you have any informational corrections you want to pass on. We have a load of stinger reports uh out, including uh coverage of the AEI show and some other major events that took place. Uh, and my email details are there if you need direct content.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:11

Perfect. All right, Kevin. Well, another great sound off. And for those of you listening, stay tuned for sound off number 117 in just one week, April 14th. We will see you all then. Have a good one.