Sound Off #125 - Prioritizing the Guest Journey, Playcations, Crane Oasis & more! Artwork

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Sound Off #125 - Prioritizing the Guest Journey, Playcations, Crane Oasis & more!

June 16, 2026 • Brandon Willey • Season 4 • Episode 125

0:00 | 1:14:16

Welcome And Opening Banter

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Are you on the edge of your seat? Because we're about to stay with Eli. Covering today's latest trends in location-based educating. Brought to you by the LBX Collective, your community to collect the age and inspire. All right, everyone, let's buckle up.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

All right. Well, welcome everybody to Sound Off with Kevin Williams. This is episode number 125 for June 16th, 2026. Kevin, how are you doing, sir? I'm doing fine, thank you, Brandon. And you? Oh, doing great. Doing great. Off to the races and um having a good week so far at uh Augmented World Expo. So um, you know, very much uh enjoying spending the time.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Oh yeah. Our future cells are having a good time. Yeah, wish the time machine could send back a uh a libation uh uh from the event.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

But anyway, maybe next week we'll be uh you know we'll be able to uh do one of these with a with a gin and tonic in our hands.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

So I think that would be a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Yeah, well, so how are you going to change my mind this week?

The Guest Journey Comes First

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Well, to live up to my cantanchrinism, uh, I thought I'd be a uh uh a bit of contrarian and jump in hard with something that I really feel very strongly about. Surprise, surprise, that we are missing what this is all about. You know, I am dealing with restaurateurs, I am dealing with uh financial houses, I'm dealing with cocktail mixologists, but I'm not dealing with entertainment and game of uh gamification people. That said, there are the 501s and the conductors of this sector, there are Sagas, but I really am, you know, it's maybe it's my the imagineer in me. I'm not seeing those individuals focused on the guest journey. And if maybe they are out there, but they're maybe hidden under the bunker that is these large entertainment corporations. But we really are at a point where if we don't understand that it isn't about the sliders and it isn't about the uh the mocktails, but it is about how the entertainment mix glues all of this together, then we could be throwing the baby out with the bathwater as we enter the next phase of utilization uh of entertainment. And it, you know, if you've been following any of our sound uh open and shut, sorry, you'll know that in Sound Off this seems to be, you know, jumping between the two, which is failure to understand your audience, failure to offer an entertainment experience that is compelling and has agency and narrative, uh, leads to failure.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yeah. Yeah. And I think the one maybe additional thing to add here, uh, because I completely agree with uh with everything you just said, is also making sure that the entertainment is accessible. And you know, again, and I don't mean and so when I use the term accessible, maybe need to come up with a different term because I think when we think accessibility, we think of ADA um and and moving around in a facility, um, I actually am referring to the the gameplay of the particular of the games or the way that the guest experiences the entertainment and interacts with the entertainment uh mix and the broader appeal across and ability for all different ages to be able to interact or experience that entertainment. And I think that's also important and something that gets lost frequently. And, you know, again, maybe depends on the focus of your facility. Are you a 21 and over? Is that really your target? Are you trying to target small kids or or large families? Um, so certainly that plays into it, and that should be a part of your core guest journey and uh you know what you've designed for. But uh if you are designing for a broader audience appeal, then you do need to think about that accessibility for your entertainment mix.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

I use the phrase compelling uh when I'm trying to uh define that. You know, I apologize, Dave and Busters, but I, you know, stole these pictures from your deck. Um, and you know, it shows the happy, smiling, perfect uh Gen Zers that uh they want to uh suck into their uh facility, drinking, I'm sure their mocktails, playing, and it was the lightest of playing on the amusement machines there, eating the usual perfectly selected slider food that never looks quite like that when I order my food from DB and watching, which is the new component, that fourth element, that they now see themselves as a watch facility. I'm sorry, I really do feel that you can't treat each of those as the same, but there needs to be prioritization in what what you are doing, especially at a Dave and Busters, especially at a Pin Shack, uh, especially at an Evo. What is the guest engagement, the player routine, and do you have a unique player model? So when you wake up face down in the middle of uh the facility and look around, you can say, Holy hell, I've fallen asleep at a Dave and Busters, or holy hell, I'm in a main event, or holy hell, I'm in an Evo, where I'm beginning to see now that most of them look like holy hell, I've fallen asleep in a Bets and Enterprises arcade warehouse, rather than uh really being an entertainment facility.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Yeah, absolutely 100%.

Break And Sponsor Message

SPEAKER_02 6:10

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Placations And Short-Haul Play Trends

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Thank you. And uh jumping into the trends in the economy, and you know, we were joking that uh someone would come up with uh an alternative phrase to staycation, and uh our friends at Forbes have uh you know taken that uh hold my beer and they've come up with placations. Though, as was defined, you know, this is talking much more about uh outdoor-related uh entertainments, but it still refers to short haul, closer vacations uh that are now being seen to be popular. And this was being based on information that Airbnb uh had provided uh the researcher.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Yeah, and you know, we talked about uh we were we were messaging back and forth a little bit this week about the term placation. And um, you know, I thought what was interesting, you know, because we coined the term stay attainment uh not too long ago, uh, but the the the use placation actually for this outdoor activities, uh so not even necessarily staying home and you know going to play at an adventure park or or you know, trampoline park or you know, an entertainment venue. They're using placation specifically as a term for like I'm going out on kayaking or I'm going hiking or I'm doing outdoor play. And so I just thought that was an interesting use case for that word or for the creation of that word versus play more broadly, which could be indoor entertainment as well as outdoor activities.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Understanding the genealogy of the word play, I don't think it works personally. Uh um placation uh placation would work as a replacement to stay staytainment that uh we created, or sorry, you created, but uh I would argue that uh uh outdoortainment, uh you know what what they're really alluding to is uh wilderness and getting into grips with nature and not having to put your hand in your pocket uh for your uh for your vacational uh experience, other than the fuel in the car and the uh the chiropractor after you come back after the kayaking. I I would argue about this. It feels to me like Forbes and some of the other financial houses are you know avoiding the staycation terminology and trying to come up with alternatives. But we will see. You know, we we haven't really fully entered the uh vacational period yet, and I think some data is going to come to the surface that will uh validate our staytainment uh position.

Universal United Kingdom Resort Breakdown

SPEAKER_03 9:35

Jumping to the biz, and you know, one of the reasons why we had to all run away, well, some of us had to run away from the uh Park Avenue open day was uh to go to the Houses of Parliament and uh hear the uh announcement over the new mega theme park project that's opening up in London, or sorry, England, outside of London, just outside of London. Uh it was given its official name uh by Universal. Uh, this new facility is going to be called Universal United Kingdom Resort. Uh, and we got a little bit more transparency to uh how much money uh the British government is going to throw in in for infrastructure and stuff like this. You know, 1.3 billion is going to be taken from the King's Purse uh of the UK government towards helping this establishment that is going to, uh according to metrics data, have about 2,000 employees. Uh and we're you know seeing uh the official opening date of being uh 2031. I will be interesting to see how much they stick to that opening date. Universal are pretty good, usually uh, you know, I think Epic's Universe opened uh near enough spot on of the date that they've set themselves. So I wouldn't be surprised about this. I think what's going to surprise a lot of people about uh Universal United Kingdom Resorts, sorry, it doesn't trip off the tongue, personal opinion, but uh the that this is the first gate. This is the first part of a space that they've acquired that can be expanded quite considerably to a second and a third gate. And I get the feeling that it will be the first part of the opening of this operation will not be as mind-blowing, uh, you know, brand new, cutting edge, fantastic as some people are expecting, but it will be solid, strong, and uh offering a high level of entertainment, then that will give them a foundation to build on for gate two and gate three. That is my personal opinion. Uh having worked on a number of uh uh blue sky projects for uh opening a park of this size uh within this catchment of the UK, I was interested to hear that the Universal team had visited some of the properties that we, uh when we were working on Project C, uh, which was linked with Paramount, uh, had visited. One of the biggest things for me about this project is that it's managed to get past the hardest hurdle, which is the conceptual and green lighting. They are just about to stick the spades in the ground in a couple of weeks' time, and then it's off to the races. And uh the way things go, I'm sure 2031 will speed towards us uh the same way that uh everything seems to be speeding at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Yeah, indeed. Yeah, I mean, look, the name makes sense. It follows their it while it doesn't flow off the tongue, it certainly flows better than Universal Bedfordshire Resort. So um, you know, I think that would be a little bit of a rough one. Um so I get it. Um I totally agree that it will be a multi-gate. You know, when you look at Universal Orlando Resort, um, they have you know their four gates, if you wanted to include Volcano Bay as uh as one of those. And so uh, you know, Universal Studios Florida, Islands of Adventure, Epic Universe, and Volcano Bay. And so I you know, definitely would agree that this is probably the first gate. And it'd be interesting if while the Universal United Kingdom Resort is the overarching name of the development, if this particular gate has some sort of unique name to it, like Islands of Adventure or Epic Universe within Universal United Kingdom Resort, I think if that ends up happening, then it will be a clear sign that this is a multi-gate development.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

I would have fought for UK uh branding point, Universal UK Resorts.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Nice, totally agree.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Uh, but uh I don't get the big bucks for uh from Universal, so we'll we'll have to wait and see. Maybe they they've got a fallback position where they're gonna go for abbreviation. But yeah. We're off to the races. This is going to be one of the most important of the uh new park openings in recent time, and this is going to be one of the first of the 2030 uh venues. This is, you know, we've had a mixed bag regarding 2020 theme park openings, not held by COVID. Uh, so we will be interesting to see what the 2030 crop brings to us. And there are a number of uh big theme park projects that will have to be looking towards 2030 openings. We've already talked about the uh Middle East uh Disney plans uh that are in the works.

Leadership Changes Reshape The Industry

SPEAKER_03 14:52

Moving on, and uh that changing of the guards, that uh new C-suites, that um restructuring of the corporates is you know taking place at a pace. Uh, and I expect that we'll get a lot more of this after ILPA Orlando, but uh in the build-up to uh IALPA Asia, we were uh informed that BRC, Bob Rogers, is now going to do what he'd been threatening to do a few years ago and totally shake up the internal operation of BRC uh and uh elevate the chief executives now to uh to uh a more uh controlling role, a more steerage role, where he uh and uh and I think one other member of the board, well uh uh uh the board team will be now moving into an advisory position. Uh I wish Bob uh you know more time on the golf course. Uh you know, he's he's created a phenomenal company that has been pivotable, pivotal in the uh development of uh themed attractions internationally. And it you know, it's time to uh enjoy some of what you have created uh and look towards the future of BRC with the new audience in mind and with uh a new uh leadership in mind.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Yeah, and it's not just a leadership, it's an you know, ownership transfer to these four leaders as well. And so, you know, he's probably structured it as a management buyout that will deliver a cash payout over time. We don't know all the details because it's obviously an independent private deal. Um, but you know, good for the four execs that have been a part of this company and working with him for so long, taking over as both you know the leadership of the company, but also as its uh co-owners going forward.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

It's how it should be, really. This is uh you know, an industry, a labor of love. This is you know, we're not as hopefully as corporate as some would like to turn us into. And you know, if you put put effort in, you get effort back. Uh and uh, well, anyone that knows Bob understands that uh he's he's very strong about that type of stuff.

Arcade Bars Rebrand And Expand

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Moving on, and in the I think we're gonna have to create a special colouring code for the employment and uh corporate C suite changes in sound off. But uh we have uh the latest change. If you're not familiar with MQ64, that is a retro arcade bar, uh, one of the earliest of the competitive socializing uh chains that uh proved themselves in the UK, and it was one of the first of the uh solid retro arcade uh operations. It wasn't just going for the sawdust and the tap bar kind of approach, but was creating that neon uh arcade environment with a mixture of classic arcade machines, excuse me, and uh modern retros. They've uh parachuted Matt in. Matt comes from an interesting background. Uh he's worked for Brewhouse Kitchens for five years, but he's also worked with uh All-Star Lanes, uh, which is another of those companies that started the competitive socializing revolution in the UK. Um NQ64 is up to 12 sites, and one of the interesting things for me is that they've edged away from the retro. So, you know, previously we would be calling in NQ64 a retro arcade bar, but now they're going for that game activity arcade bar or arcade bar monaco. And I'm sure that Matt's uh branding skills and marketing skills will go towards pushing that uh recognition factor.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Yeah, and I think as a result, as well, coming from All Star Lanes, Brewhouse and Kitchen, uh both heavy on the FB side, obviously NQ64 really focused on the bar and arcade, um very light snacks as uh as options. But I think where his skill will come in is if they're making that transition from a retro arcade bar to game activity and arcade bar, um, the website that is heavily themed as a retro arcade, classic retro arcade website, I'm sure we'll begin to see that branding really heavy uh change heavily.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

I would argue that neon light is hard to remove. And the same way that retro neon light on a website is incredibly hard to uh remove. It will take uh an individual to uh with uh a strong stomach, sorry, uh uh with uh a good sense of smell to uh rebrand this without throwing the baby out with the bath water, without put uh putting off your uh recurring audience who love your cocktails, who love the stylizing, who love the grunginess of this, but also uh creating a brand that can survive up against competition like Pool House, like uh F1 Arcade and hold their own. But again, we look forward uh to seeing uh how they're going to do this, as well as the expansion of new facilities that are in the works. Talking about F1 Arcade, and surprise, surprise, it was confirmed that they will be opening up a Chicago facility, shock horror. You know, if you have a scratch card, bingo card kind of thing of listing of where you're going to open in North America a competitive socializing A1 facility, then you know, Chicago, Denver, Orlando, um, New York are all on the on the lists. Well, bingo, uh, they're going for Chicago. Interesting where they're going for in Chicago. They're actually going into the building that used to hold the uh Rock Bottom Brewery. Um being there for 20 years, and then surprise, surprise, Rock Bottom closed. Uh, and I am wondering if maybe the owners of Rockbottom got a an offer they couldn't refuse for uh from the F1 guys to uh take this site over. Because they, you know, they permanently closed in 2023, and people were surprised by this. But again, if your business isn't doing phenomenally well, you close and then you wait for the next big offer to come on to take over such a prominent location that uh you were sitting on. And here we go, we're going to be seeing 70 simulators over the two floors of uh this iconic building. I wonder how much themality they're going to be allowed to put on the front of this building. Uh and, you know, again, how much work it's going to take to. Strip the previous uh brewery uh restaurant down and turn it into the requirements of uh F1 Arcade. Again, a job for the new C-suite that has just been parachuted into the operation.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Well, yeah, and they are right smack dab in the heart of the tourist section of Chicago. They're in the river north, so they're just north of the river, within walking distance of a putt shack, a spin, and a flight club. So uh, and and I'm sure there's more than I'm just missing here. An activate. Oh, I'm sorry, there is an activate games as well, like nearly right across the street from where they are. So they are right in the heart of competitive socialization.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

And sandbox VR, and and and I have a I have a hit list for that area, the same way I have a hit list for London, and they are right in the middle of the catchment in a in an area that is quite expensive. So uh, you know, they they have got premium real estate at a price, and I wouldn't be surprised if we're gonna see some more turning up in Chicago soon. My biggest interest is going to be speaking from personal experience, I uh when I was working at Disney, uh, we opened our second Disney Quest facility in Chicago, and it was a painful, painful experience, and we weren't going up against uh comparable competitors. So it there's a lot of drinking, there's a lot of hospitality, there's a lot of good food, a lot of steakhouses there. So, again, going back to how I started this sound off, if you're just going to try and offer good food and good drink, good luck, you're gonna have to offer a lot more uh for this. Uh, you know, you are going to have to offer a premium, competitive, socializing entertainment experience here. And at the moment, as we've touched upon in other sound offs, the F1 arcade is kind of sitting on the fence regarding how much of its entertainment compared against how much of its hospitality is A-class. Anyway, moving on, and uh some sad news.

Versus Immersive Shuts Down

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Uh those of uh are loyal followers in the Stinger Report and loyal listeners and watchers on Sound Off will know that we've talked about uh versus Immersive, the augmented reality uh holographic experience. Uh well, uh we got news a couple of weeks ago that NCLU, the parent of the operation, had uh fallen into chapter 7 liquidation and had shut down. The steel grating had fallen, and all of the operations, all of the between 15 and 20 facilities, I didn't get a finite number of how many operations were still operational of their chain and installations was operational. But anyway, all of those have closed, uh, and now there is a scramble from operators that were installing these systems to find an alternative. I was just in an email conversation a couple of moments ago with a distributor wanting to uh you know, wanting free consultancy, wanting to know uh what would be the alternatives to the versatile immersive if an operator uh had to pull that out and had that real estate. And I was being friendly and going through the list of uh some of the ones that tipped off the mindset uh that could go in as an alternative, but none of them really uh achieved the same level of uh holographic theatre experience that uh Versive Immersive was trying to achieve. This is a shame. Uh they were just about to do a major deal with Snap to use the spectacles uh system in their version 3.0, and that really is a telling statement that I think it has been their failure to find uh a reasonable head-mounted display platform that they could depend on uh that has made it difficult for them. They were burnt, they had their fingers burnt with one previous mobile phone, head-mounted holster system that they had originally used. They burnt their fingers again when uh Microsoft pulled out of the HoloGate uh HoloLens platform. Uh, and it wasn't cheap to keep on pivoting from one headset to the next. As many of the VR Arena companies are finding out the hardware, hard way, that the hardware that they've used, uh maybe thinking that they were uh cutting corners and saving money by using uh MetaQuest IIIs, uh, as soon as that company pulls out the market, then you're you know, double the expense of moving on to the alternative system. And from a clue, they also had to change their business model, going from what they were hoping to be opening their own facilities, their own theaters uh as a franchise operation, and then pivoting towards uh just being a standalone attraction within existing sites.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah. And when you add up all of those pivots, both on the technology side and the business model side, it's tough. You know, when I first went to their initial demo, uh demo that they had set up at IAP Expo, gosh, I want to say 2022, maybe 2021. Um I believe uh it was one of those two, I believe 22. And uh it just they they just didn't gain the type of traction on the sales side as well that they really needed to, you know, to be running for about four years. And you know, while they're in some decent, they were in some decent brands, they got into main event and uh and uh Integrippy and uh you know A10 uh billiards, and so they got into some, you know, at least a few of those, but they never gained the traction within those brands as well to sustain the growth that they needed in order to pay for the technical pivots they had to make. It's a shame.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

Uh and uh nature appalls a vacuum, and I look forward to seeing the next system that will now jump into this uh AR space if this AR space is viable. Because again, there is a strong possibility that maybe the market doesn't need this kind of approach, and maybe a frictionless version of the holographic uh theatre is uh the way forward. But again, we will wait and see. We're here to monitor the trends rather than try and overly predict them.

Vertigo Games And VR Fallout

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Uh another company that uh had a strong VR footing in location-based entertainment, but also had a very strong footing in consumer VR. Vertigo Games, they are the latest victim of uh the great shakeup, the great reset that's taking place in VR uh consumer gaming, and I I expect will have a knock-on effect in the location-based entertainment. Vertigo games is also very well known for their Arizona Sunshine product that was a uh a major zombie shooter go-to for many of the early and current VR arcades, uh, and uh now also very popular with the VR Arena uh uh uh operations. We're not sure what the status is going to be now that uh Vertigo Games has closed down their Amsterdam uh uh studios, especially as those studios were linked to uh their investment uh in location-based entertainment. I don't expect major knock-ons at the moment because Arizona Sunshine is being distributed through uh our Venzert uh Servius VR, and you know they're you know they they have a very robust structure in place to handle this. Just a little bit of history repeating. You know, I'm not sure how many people remember the original plans for Arizona Sunshine as being part of the nomadic VR uh free roam uh arcade, sorry, uh free roam location-based VR entertainment operation. It was going to go head to head with the void back in back in the day, back in uh 2018 and 2019, again didn't happen, and this is like what we were talking about with uh Servio a couple of sound offs ago that had also fallen on hard times in the VR sector. We are seeing a bonfire of the vanities regarding consumer VR development. Moving on, and a correction.

War Of The Worlds Correction

SPEAKER_03 31:05

I got beaten up. Uh we had been given very good information regarding what was happening next with uh the War of the Worlds experience. The situation as it as we reported it was that uh the company led reality behind the War of the Worlds and the Elvis experience had uh fallen into administration, and both of those experiences had closed. We were aware that there was an interest to try and salvage the War of the Worlds experience because it had proven itself, it had longevity, and it had just gone through a 400,000 pound refit and redevelopment to roll out for the new season. Anyway, we got a nod from one of our sources that uh they were very close to making uh good on turning the uh the permanent experience into a pop-up experience that could kind of jump on the bandwagon that we're seeing from the Black Mirror kind of experience and the Titanic experience and and uh and others. And then we ran that uh story on our social media feed only to get a uh uh an email from uh the Jeff Wayne uh operation kind of asking us kindly, very kindly, very politely, could we take that down? And I'm not we were able to have a little bit of a conversation, and it wasn't that the information is wrong, that maybe we had jumped the gun a little bit and it would help their negotiations that uh things calm down again. We will always do that, please. So you know, we're not here to spoil negotiations. If someone gives us information, we will run with it. The Stinger Report doesn't really break news, it's our competitive, sorry, it's our social media feeds that we like to drop in, breaking news into. And, you know, hey, uh all the listeners of Sound Off and the watchers of Sound Off uh tip to nod that maybe something interesting in the future is coming, but we possibly couldn't come out.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Yeah, well, no, I'm glad they reached out. And yes, again, you know, to reiterate, if there's ever anything that we report here or talk about or whatever, you know, we want to make sure we get the news right. So uh yeah, please do uh please do reach out.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Moving on, Taurus the Pain for all of those people that are interested. Um, not that many in in there, but again, the cluster is difficult to spot, but it's there all the same.

Mira Pivots Toward Cinema Spaces

SPEAKER_03 33:37

Moving on into the tech trends and IP. We've talked about mirror a lot. Uh hopefully, you know, future Brandon and future Kevin are deep in conversation with our friends at Mirror because they will be at the AWE US uh event. Uh they're not exhibiting, but they are taking part in the conference session and such like that. Anyway, our friends in Australia at CHE Group. This is the reverse of the Jeff Wayne situation. They threw me some stuff ahead of schedule uh regarding what they are thinking about. And if you look at the picture for those of you that are listening to this, uh the picture shows a modified uh sound stage of a cinema, you know, the you know, the auditorium where everybody sits and watches the film, where the big screen is uh a number of seating stages have been removed to allow the mirror, uh mirror immersive uh free roaming game multiplayer game experience to take part, uh take place in. And again, I would argue that this is a kind of a pivot. This is moving away from their aspirations of being a standalone facility, entertainment brand with food, you know, competitive socializing VR, uh adventure experience, audiences watching people in VR, big screens showing the action that they see through the headsets. Wow, sliders, cocktails, everybody happy. This is now applying this to the cinema model. This is ultimate cinema, as uh and I can kind of see this working. Kinda? Push me downhill. Uh, I'm not too sure how the Australian cinema sector is faring compared to the North American cinema sector, but I'd love to put this on test just to see. The only question I have about it is where is the uh the hospitality come coming from? This is not going to work if there's no drink involved and no food involved. Um, and again, is it gonna be a one and done or are the games compelling enough uh to bring an audience? For me, this is an interesting approach to the synertainment direct model. This is the hey, we've got too many sound stages that are multiplex. We need some entertainment in there. Is this an option?

SPEAKER_02 36:05

So I have a few questions, and yes, I'm hoping to get some time with Mira this uh, you know, at the AWE uh to unpack some of these things. But uh, you know, things that stand out, a few things that stand out to me, at least based on the current uh representation here on uh on the screen and the images. Um, you know, the first one is uh is this intended to be an alternative to uh you know, so like let's say instead of running uh a movie in this in this space, you could run Mira for uh you know for a period of time and then but also use it as a as a theater space? Or is it taking extra theater spaces and converting them permanently to Mira? So I think that's question number one. Question number two, and I think you bring a good one up, is the F and B component. In the other in traditional, the traditional Mira experience, it's in like a restaurant, uh bartainment, uh, entertainment environment. And so people can sit at their seats and eat their food and watch the entertainment happening in front of them. This is very much a I am here to watch these people compete, potentially compete myself and um and uh hopefully uh uh eat. I do not see any tables or any trays or anything else sliding out from these seats. And so I do wonder is this meant to be a 60-minute experience you go in, you watch, and you know, or is this meant to be something that could have a longer dwell time with F and B and you know everything else? The the last thing I'll say here is this has a much bigger like going into one of these spaces where it's just dedicated to Mira and these seats, I feel like I have to be a part of a corporate event or a large birthday party or something where I know everybody in this space and we're all here to friendly compete. What worked in their original model was you know, we could all be there and eat and kind of watch some other people competing and having fun publicly. This is very much like I'm going to see a gladiator arena type style competition. And I'm not sure that it works uh in a more casual environment. This is definitely feels more dedicated, group-based uh arena style play. So, anyway, we'll you know learn maybe more of those, but those are some of the immediate questions standing out for me.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

The biggest problem I have, the fundamental problem, is getting people into sound stages. Uh, the the way that the architecture uh is laid out in most uh cinemas makes it very difficult to repurpose one of these sound stages as an entertainment environment, unless you go through some serious redevelopment, or if you are starting from scratch and you can uh lay this out properly. But all of those questions need to be answered, and uh once we have some answers, then we'll be in a better position. Um let's eleg uh uh elevate the hospitality question to the first question uh when we meet the team. Moving on, and mirror has uh added a new game to uh their setup, and there is a picture of what a usual you know best interpretation of the mirror uh immersive entertainment venue concept is. That is their audience um uh participation where everybody doesn't really know everyone, but they're all having a good time, and you know, riding off of the back of uh the FIFA uh football extravaganza that is taking place now. Uh Mira has developed a soccer smash uh game experience uh that is, I'm sure, heavily soccer infused. I was expecting to see a lot more uh entertainment, you know, themed around soccer being launched. You know, we had Sega releasing a number of uh redemption and prize machines that were soccer uh infused, but uh this is really uh one of the only VR uh experiences that I've uh uh seen on my uh location-based entertainment list. Um maybe uh the seasonality is much more of a focus than the occasional sporting event. I wonder if anyone's planning anything for the Olympics. But anyway, um mirroring the news in two directions.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Yeah, yeah. Well, uh this may be a little too late, uh, too little too late. I mean, it's better that it launched before uh the World Cup, but uh it doesn't give their operators very much time to get the marketing out there in advance. Uh hopefully they did get some of this information um to their to their uh you know, let's say licensees, uh their operators beforehand to to begin promoting, but um you know I guess better late than never.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Just to put this in context, Tocker Social hasn't launched officially a FIFA World Cup game experience on their uh systems.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

It's a miss. It's well, I I would say it's a miss, especially if you're trying to encourage watch parties at your venues. But moving on. And you know, we were talking about the cinema cinema

China’s Dragon Label For VR Films

SPEAKER_03 41:25

side. Uh, it was interesting that we had some data from our Chinese sources uh about a new kite mark uh or official uh labeling system, the dragon label that is now being allocated to VR experiences, audience-based VR experiences, which are very popular uh in the Chinese market. This is the reutilization of a cinema space to be used for VR uh experiences. Every person has their own uh head-mounted uh display and they watch a uh a unique high fidelity VR film experience. Um, many of them are kind of not travelog, but kind of like similar soaring style experiences with uh a strong narrative behind them. According to the numbers from uh the Chinese uh Immersive Watch, there's about 200 of these films out there, and about 37 of them have received this very auspicious dragon label, which marks them out as triple A quality. Uh and you know it is a growing aspect of the market. Whether that will migrate into the Western market, I'm not sure. Moving on, and the company that I like to call the sandbox via of uh Japan, uh XR Center, has uh announced that they've done a haunted experience that they've added to their uh catalogue of uh free roaming arena-based uh standalone environments. Their system is very much uh built on the same model as what we've seen with Zero Latency and what we've seen from Sandbox VR, except theirs is uh you know a much more laid-back facility approach.

Haunted VR And Reliable Arena Rollouts

SPEAKER_03 43:24

They have about uh four facilities open at the moment, and they have association with our friends with Gender uh through the Dynamo uh amusement division. Uh I'm not a great fan of horror VR experiences, to be blunt. You know, they they leave me cold. Uh you know, one of those funny duddies when it comes to horror. The you know the the issue here, I think, is that it's interesting to see that XR Center is now beginning that process of creating their own unique content.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Well, and I think what's interesting here also. Is that it's done as a uh it's installed as a special attraction in a department store.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

So this is something that is in partnership with uh starts here as a department store special and then will be rolled across their facilities.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

Yes, exactly, exactly. And uh, you know, again, horror uh or haunt, I guess we'll say maybe a haunt versus horror, um, has a has a limited audience uh to some extent as well. And so, you know, that is a it's always a questionable path to take, especially as a uh as a as a first step.

SPEAKER_03 44:31

The haunted house approach, and thank you for picking me up on haunted rather than horror. The haunted house approach was one of those experiences that we saw a number of times while we were at the uh AAA show uh in China. It is something that we can expect using a lot of the dynamics that we've seen with the traditional haunted house, but now from a virtual reality experience is going to be a thing, uh already seen from a number of uh Chinese manufacturers. How well that will translate to a Western market. I yeah, I'm I think the health and safety fears about jump scares and stuff like that, you know, that they have to be weighed up accordingly. Uh again, the productization and the regular ROI of uh VR arena-based systems has come to pass. We've gone away from the Wild West period where you know people started up, claimed that they had a working arena, and operators were left with a bag of bolts and a failing system and a load of broken headsets. The technology has proven itself, it's become much more reliable, and the ROI is there, and so now we're seeing large operations doubling down on specialist relationships with uh companies to deliver. And uh our friends at the Rabbit Hull VR, who are one of those that is leading the way on uh installation, reliability of uh systems into the sector, have partnered with Urban Air, and we're going to be seeing a rollout of this urban air VR zone system uh across their operation. Uh, quite a considerable feather in their caps for uh our friends at Rabbit Hole, and also just underpinning how uh active entertainment facilities migrate away from the trampoline now and having to offer a much wider immersive entertainment selection. Moving on, and this is

Geigo’s Crane Oasis With Groceries

SPEAKER_03 46:36

something that we touched upon in Open and Shut was uh Ender uh through their Geigo uh operation doubling down on a latest opening. They've opened a brand new uh facility in Japan, adding to the uh over 800 uh GeIGO facilities, but this new facility is really a dedicated crane uh facility, and it's an interesting one, along with it being dedicated with over 130 crane and prize machines. There are a couple of prize machines. There's no amusement here at all. Uh, this is a direct pivot to jump into the popular crane market, and this is their first of this dedicated crane game Oasis. But there's one unusual component to it. Parts of the crane machines in this facility are populated not with plush, not with uh the late uh the latest manga or anime uh dolls or anything like that. They're populated with groceries, household items, and you can literally go up to these machines and uh do a little bit of shopping or with a uh what is it, price with benefits, groceries. Um the uh you know the uh noodle meals uh at just that hot water, ramen selections uh are is in one setup. Uh sweet biscuits and confectories and another, chocolates and such like clean products and other stuff. This is weird to me. Uh I'm not just gonna say oh only in Japan, uh, because I know I'm gonna wake up one day and someone in uh uh one of the American um uh crane cades will suddenly work this trick out and they'll do uh food and munchables and uh collectible uh cleaning products in their machine. But I just wanted to bring it to our audience's attention that this is a thing.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

It is odd for sure. Um, I will say the other thing that maybe isn't odd, but uh maybe a good idea. Maybe it definitely I I you could tell me, Kevin, if this is a pivot or if this is something new, um, but they actually will have a new section that's dedicated to beginners and children. So I mean this goes along with the kitty rides that they have, but like that are basically these games will be easier to play, easier to really offering and easier challenge for these players. Um, and so I've not heard of you know, in these facilities having a section where, like, hey, are you new to this thing? Come here and play these. It's going to give you uh, you know, basically whet your appetite to then want to obviously upgrade to uh probably some heavier duty prizes like uh like clear uh like Clorox Bleach. Um then the other thing too that this tells me that this is not a one and done. They are clearly intending to roll out this model is that they actually have created a lion character, uh, a mascot called Gigo Maru. Um and uh Gigo Maru, and that is their uh that is their new lion mascot that will be there at the opening, um, which tells me, okay, this is clearly part of this uh you know broader uh you know Gaigo Oasis uh model that they're uh looking, you know, Crane Game Oasis that they're looking to roll out.

SPEAKER_03 49:58

You're right. Not many uh uh crane cades or UFO arcades uh I know have a uh training wheel facility, uh early learners. I put this down to the GenderGeGo AI uh audience mapping technology, telling them that they're missing a trick. And I would assume that they've noticed that maybe younger audiences coming in to their facilities, the new generation aren't as familiar with the operation of the uh UFO and crane machines, and maybe need some education, maybe need some uh less brutal put their money in and lose it all in one go approach, put their money in and you know, get a uh uh uh a minimal experience, and then that kind of leads them on to the hard stuff later on. Again, this is the benefit of data crunching uh through their uh AI-based uh training system. And this is a trick that maybe would have been missed by the more traditional management style of a crane game facility that can be caught by this kind of technology. Fascinating. Anyway, the next time I go in there and I need some uh chocolate, I can spend twice as much for the chocolate uh in a prize machine. Weird world we live.

New Rhythm Game Hints At Arcade Return

SPEAKER_03 51:29

Moving on into the music game realm, and again, I've been corrected here and I've been you know put through the ringer here. But from the information that I've been given from sources that I respect, uh, we have a new entrant into the music or the rhythm game music scene in the consumer sector called uh uh Red Doctane. Red Doctane. And they are made up of ex-developers and executives that worked on the Guitar Hero franchise. They've uh set up an independent studio and they have a brand new game, stage tour, that builds a lot on the familiar uh Guitar Hero approach, but also incorporates other musical instruments. And they actually done a deal with Gibson where their guitars for the uh this experience are uh uh branded. Now, currently the machine or sorry, the game and its machine is an beta test. This is a consumer game, but the developers have created a number of scratch-built arcade cabinets with populated with the game that have been on tour. And because they have built scratch-built unique arcade machines on tour, they have been put in a position to consider rolling out a arcade release of this. Now, all of you who read your stinger reports will know the long diatribe I had to go through to report on why music game, new music game systems have found it so difficult to enter the market. I'm not going to repeat that here. Go back and check your uh uh previous Stinger reports or send me a uh a LinkedIn and I'll you know I'll point you in the right direction of where we covered that. The point that I'm trying to make is it would be fascinating to see if they throw their hat into the ring, especially as what we were reporting on uh in the open day, uh Park Avenue Open Day, where we were seeing the continuation of music games being very strong sellers to the amusement markets with the caveats of all of the RCAP um music licensing needs that these systems have to go through. So, all I'm saying is there's a possibly a new game in town. Uh, watch this space. God, it's the Jeff Wayne syndrome all over again.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

It will be interesting to see. We'll we'll see how it plays out.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

Fingers crossed, I would like to see a new music game. I was very unhappy how um Guitar Hero Arcade uh was treated in the amusement industry. It was a very popular product that was kneecapped, uh, and we really do need good products, and I don't think we have the luxury of kneecapping products because they're slightly harder to operate. Slightly harder to operate. What are those games that are now being released in the consumer sector that really we could be making money off of? And they are our games, you know. This is really interesting that we have the big launch of Tekken 8 coming up. We have uh already the big launch of uh Street Fighter VI, uh uh, which even has an arcade version in Japan, but uh no Western deployment. And of course, we had the announcement of the new Crazy Taxi game being released from Sega. Great interest from the uh the market, uh the playing audience, and I would be, you know, I've been in this business long enough. I think I can smell games that would at least generate some ROI. Is it time that you know the industry looks again at trying to get our previous gold medal product back into the uh arcade sector? I know there's a whole load of the old guard gatekeepers that come up with a whole load of reasons why it's just too expensive and no one likes fighting cabinets, and then we see fighting cabinets succeed through uh companies uh like Excadia and stuff like that. Oh no, no one wants driving games anymore. And then we see the explosion of driving games in the Chinese market coming over into the West. At some point in time, people who don't play games telling us why games shouldn't be released. We need uh to consider that this IP has public recognition. And it's about the game stupid. I seem to be repeating myself.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

I feel like that's how we started at some level. Uh, this this uh sound off.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

It's it's a weird one. Well, hopefully, some uh changes in the C-suites of the old guard uh will allow us to get some new content in because boy do we need it. We can't depend on Big Bash, uh Big Bass uh 2.8 uh as the means to generate revenue. We need to still look at entertainment.

Carnival Games Enter Competitive Socializing

SPEAKER_03 56:50

Moving on, and people that are looking at entertainment is our friends at Conductor, and they announced that they would be throwing their hats into the ring and developing uh what I would call a fun fair game selection. They would say Carnival, some people would say midway. But again, building on what we've seen with some competitive socializing venues, rather than having to roll your own game developments, that this allows you to buy off-the-shelf um funfair or carnival games that have been supercharged to be suitable for competitive socializing, that incorporates some of the details, such as drinks holders, such as gameplay that is controlled for all of the audience to enjoy the experience, which is a very important uh element to consider. And you know, a lot of features. 16 games have been created by Conductor, and fundamentally what we're now seeing is a war. Well, a good war, uh good strong competition in development. So Conductor has developed both this new carnival system as well as the word that they've developed for their Lunar Midway that was for their um their cruise line uh line of uh products. We have seen our friends at Triotech throw their hat into the rings, saying that they will be showing uh in November their uh carnival or funfair range of product. And we've just seen Fair Games, one of the companies that kind of proved to the market that competitive socializing, funfair carnivals, call them what you want, uh, kinds of approaches work as a strong revenue generator. I didn't add to this list, obviously, our friends at uh Swingers and their carnival uh addition that they added to their mini golf experience using off-the-shelf arcade machines. But this kind of carnival approach, I think, is going to be a very strong element of the future of competitive socializing, along with retro gaming, along with darts, along with racing simulators.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

Yeah, I absolutely completely agree. And uh, you know, we're seeing this even in the names that places like Swingers Golf uh uses. You know, they call their arcade, uh, well, I would call it a mini arcade, it's not really even a full arcade, but uh, you know, their branded space called the carnival. And so this idea of carnival games, midway games as part of a competitive socializing environment, um, either as a standalone like fair game or as an addition to an entertainment venue, uh, it's absolutely going to be uh an up-and-coming part of those that the overall entertainment mix.

SPEAKER_03 59:37

I keep off uh the name keeps on escaping me. The company that always exhibits at ILPA that does the midway attractions. Bob Space Racers. Thank you very much. You know, guys, Bob, you're missing out. Yeah, absolutely. You're missing out. People, oh well. You can take a horse to water.

Meta Demos Plus Brand AI Moves

SPEAKER_03 1:00:00

Meta, we couldn't go, you know, a couple of uh sound offs without talking about our lovely friends at Meta Reality Labs, uh, and a pivot. You know, I was very dismissive when Meta opened up the uh Meta store operation. Uh I think we we sort of raised an eyebrow when they opened their first one in California, and then their second one uh uh they opened up. It was a very slow rollout, and we were trying to work out how they were going to be demoing their VR and their AI. Well, it sounds like after the job losses and the major pivot, they've uh gone running to their relationship with Best Buy, and now, surprise, surprise, Best Buy will be uh uh operating live demo areas for their AI glasses and for their virtual reality headsets. It is interesting to see this kind of demonstrator approach now being farmed off to Best Buys rather than having a dedicated entertainment facility. I didn't want to talk about this in Open and Shut as a shut. I just wanted to touch upon it briefly here. Moving on, and we look at the AI. And Hasbro has admitted that they've uh opened up a artificial intelligence studio, the sixth wall. Someone must have thought that was funny. Uh, anyway, this allows them to deposit their characters and IP into uh the AI arena uh under their control. And answer this, I I you know kind of feel a little uncomfortable regarding this because it's kind of them admitting failure that they can't police their uh themselves regarding AI, and so they, if you can't beat them, join them approach. I wonder how long Sixth Wall will exist as a standalone operation before Hasbro feels that they need to revisit this uh strategy.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

You know, I well, we'll see. I mean, this is at least an interesting approach to solving or whether it's going to solve the problem or not, to at least begin to mediate the issue that they're dealing with. And so um we'll we'll see. This this could end up being actually a really innovative path forward that a lot of other brands decide to take.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

We have seen Disney position themselves uh with uh AI studio content. We know that uh other game developers, you know, we were talking just a minute ago about Crazy Taxi. There was a big furraw uh within the consumer games community that certain elements of Crazy Taxi used uh AI created backgrounds. So at some point in time it moves from slop to cash. Uh, and maybe Hasbro is an outlier at the beginning of this process. McDonald's taking another bite out of uh employing AI uh drive-thru ordering. Uh, they attempted uh a few months back to do this, or a few do this, and it fell flat on its face. Lots of mistakes, lots of very embarrassing moments. Now they're starting a new pilot scheme with a brand new approach uh using their new AI uh ordering assistant, Archie. Uh someone at McDonald's marketing needs a baseball bat. Um and this pilot scheme is uh claiming great success so far. You know, uh I would expect no different. Uh second generation uh AI drive-through ordering had to be better than first generation. Um, and uh I wouldn't be surprised that McDonald's works out a way to nail down the issues and come up with a successful approach. And if McDonald's can do it, race for impact in our industry.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

Absolutely. Yeah, and look, this is uh I'm glad they didn't just decide, hey, the first round didn't work. I guess we won't you know try it again. Um, yeah, this is uh what what we need to remember about AI is currently as it stands right now, as you're listening to this, this is the worst it's ever going to be. Uh it's only going to continue to get better every week, every month. And so you need to continue to iterate and try it and uh and embrace it as much as possible, especially in our industry, and leverage its capabilities at the guest experience level.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:34

I will take the mic out of it as much as possible with the understanding that I've only got a small window to take the mic out of it, because once it gets established and better, it is ubiquitous and it is part and it is a revenue generator. And you could kind of point to what our friends at Genga uh Genda were doing with uh uh their new Oasis is that they are using that uh iterative process to help build business, build money, build revenue rather than lose.

Quickfire Questions From Listeners

SPEAKER_03 1:05:04

Finally, um I had a backlog of questions that we haven't touched upon, and uh just to wind up, I thought we would do a quickfire round of trying to answer these questions or or deal with them. Uh the I've removed all of the abusive ones and all of the uh get the brit off of the program uh comments, and I've just gone for the main ones. Uh after a couple of uh sound offs, I was getting the what are distributors bringing to the table? Do I need to use them? And that kind of also goes to the do I need to be a member of the trade association kind of questions I was getting from uh people. Personal opinion is uh some distributors bring a lot to the table. They bring services, supplies, and spares. Uh, they also uh bring an understanding of the product and act. As a gateway between you and the manufacturer, though I do know that a lot of facilities are now looking to go direct.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:07

Yeah, and I will just add that this is a lot of manufacturers are looking to go direct. So it's not just the operators looking to try to buy direct and circumvent the distributors. It is the manufacturers wanting to meet their customer right at the door.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

They feel that they're the best people to promote their product, and they feel in some cases sales agents have so many products that it's difficult to distinguish between the opportunities that some hold. I agree with both sides of the table. Having worked with distributors on a regular basis and having worked with companies that go direct, there are pros and cons. Moving on, uh why is the amusement industry so cold uh on the music game side? They do make good money. I have touched upon this earlier with uh the uh the whole of the possibility of uh a brand new music machine game turning up in the market. I think I'll leave it there for me, but if you would like to add anything, Brandon.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:14

Uh no, I think we'll just, yeah, we'll leave it there. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:21

Why has ILPA splits uh Orlando into two halls? Uh there is an official statement which I can't remember off the top of the hat, but if you'll allow me to paraphrase it, it was the show's getting bigger, we had a lot more people wanting to exhibit that we couldn't facilitate. Uh, and also there is certain building work and development stuff that makes it difficult to move outside in Tent City, especially after the rainy problems of Tent City. It was easier to move into the available West Hall and utilize that space and bring in the uh those that have been left out in the cold, literally, uh, than trying to cram everybody in continually into the North and South Hall and suffer disappointment. I would also add to that and make more money, but that's just me.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

Well, certainly that's going to be the impact of involving more uh more exhibitors, right? So they've consistently had a wait list of uh over a hundred exhibitors for multiple years that just had no space. Uh they they didn't uh you know there was no space for them. And so this gives them that space. And unfortunately, the two halls being so far apart, the north-south concourse, the west concourse, is just how the Orlando Convention Center built their building. Um, so there's nothing to there's not a closer concourse. The West Concourse is the nearest concourse to the north and south, and that's really all that I have I had to work with.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:53

And uh I'm led to believe that uh shuttle buses will be uh uh operating between the uh uh north and west hall. So, you know, that is the best that they can do out of uh bad law. You uh you know, those keen-eyed of uh attendees last year will have noticed the the considerable building work that's going on at the uh the north and south hall area that is being expanded, and that kind of was the impetus to to spread this, allow more people in to better locate. I think a lot of people are going to be surprised how better the allocation of spaces and clustering of similar operations will be, but shoe leather and electric carts will be at a premium. Moving on, two more now. Uh why did I uh change from VR to XR? I've always used XR. Um XR is the the quiver, to use an arrow uh to an archery uh analogy, is the quiver in which many arrows sit. VR is just one of those arrows. Uh sticking a box on your head and sticking people in immersive environments is one thing. We have projection mapped environments, we have mixed reality, we have AI. These are all different arrows. For some, well, for the reason we know, uh 10 years ago, VR became the poster boy for the hype machine, and it was VR everything. VR in your cornflakes, uh VR in your washing detergent, VR everywhere was going to solve world peace and make you a pizza and everything. It was a great technology, and it still is a valuable technology, but it is just one of the many technologies covered under the umbrella of XR. That is, I have always pushed XR. It's just that sometimes it has been drowned out by the hype monsters that love VR. Now that the money's gone from some of the consumer VR sector, I'm sure the word XR is now going to be heard a lot more. And as you know, I have been championing the um LBEXR component at uh AWE, and I hope to do that at other exhibitions. And then finally, to the last part. What is going to be the biggest issue? If I knew that I'd be sitting on a beach earning 20%. Ummersive enclosures is big with me uh at the moment. LED uh overprojection is big with me at the moment. Uh Brandon, would you uh I think active entertainment is a big one for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:57

Yeah, I think I mean active entertainment certainly uh, you know, if we talk about biggest issues, um, you know, it really is going to come down to that's what we've seen. Um, we talk about this often. I don't know that it's anything unique or new in like or time-based in the next six months, but I think it will be uh those that are single attraction models will begin to really struggle, especially if they've been open for longer than two years.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:22

Especially in competitive socializing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:24

Yeah. We're already seeing it. Some people are sitting on some harsh numbers that they don't want to share yet. And in six months, I suppose, yeah. So I thank you for that. Yeah, the big ticket item for me is the migration from phase one single entertainment, social entertainment to phase two multi-entertainment offerings. That's the one to watch, and how uh the C-suites uh square the circle, as it were. Anyway, that's more than enough from me.

Wrap Up And Where To Join

SPEAKER_03 1:12:55

Uh the brand new uh ending, uh Monica. That looks so well so much better than the last one. The we have stingers out there, hurrah. We uh have uh entertainment social arenas out there, hurrah. If you're not seeing them in your inbox, then check your spam filter or go back and uh re-sign up uh on the LBX Collective webpage below. Also, any information you want to pass on our LinkedIn uh information is there. Also, come and join the arguments at the uh Friends of the Stinger uh report Facebook group if you want, or uh go to the LBX uh uh Discord, and if you have anything that you want to speak to in confidence, uh there's our email. Anyway, Brandon, was that okay?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:48

Yeah. No, it was a uh it was great packed sound off, and I'm looking forward to next week as we probably dive into everything we're seeing at Augmented World Expo. So uh that being said, Kevin, see you on the next one. Have a good one.

Brandon Willey

Host