Sound Off #127 - Serendipity in LBEXR, World Cup misses, D&B new CMO & more! Artwork

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Sound Off #127 - Serendipity in LBEXR, World Cup misses, D&B new CMO & more!

June 30, 2026 • Brandon Willey • Season 4 • Episode 127

0:00 | 1:12:17

Serendipity And Flexible Thinking

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Are you on the edge of your seat? Because we're about to start with Kevin Williams, covering today's latest trends in location-based entertainment. Brought to you by the LBX Collective, your community connected age and inspired. All right, everyone, let's buckle up.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

All right. Well, welcome everybody to Sound Off with Kevin Williams. This is episode number 127 for June 30th, 2026. Kevin, my friend, you are back in London after AWE. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 0:37

It's hotter there or here than it was out in California. Oh man, it's scorcher at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

That's crazy. That's crazy. Um all right. Well, how are you going to change my mind this week?

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Well, I'm bringing back uh a touchstone phrase that uh was pushed heavily during uh AWE, and that was serendipity. Nice word. Uh and let's be clear for all the high, for all the technology, you know, a lot of the success of the application of this technology, these systems, is way beyond the original intentions. And for you know how the dictionary defines this is an accidental, successful accident where uh what you weren't intending actually becomes uh a success or a trend. And it's that kind of thing that is kind of driving the thinking behind this next generation of the application of immersive technology, be it uh AI glasses or uh the new generation of VR systems. We are looking for that serendipitous moment where um the technology finds a profitable uh ball hole, which we may not have planned for. A number of projects that uh I've been involved with or have uh offered consultancy advice to have gone down a profitable route that was never the intended route that they uh uh they were aiming for. One example being the sudden shock horror to find out that their particular immersive entertainment system was very appealing to the education market when they were focusing heavily on the uh the party and the child or the children's party uh and the private hire market. It is these kinds of pivots where the most important thing about developing a facility, a brand, or any entertainment enterprise, as well as a technology enterprise, is flexibility.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Oh, so all right. Certainly agree with the concept of flexibility, agility, being willing to pivot and able to pivot to find the right markets, uh, make changes to your platform, to your content, to your go-to-market pathway, you know, all of those things I think are important. I was actually wondering which direction you were going to take this. So interesting that you said that it is more the attraction developer looking for that serendipitous moment where they actually find product market fit versus being the VR, XR, AR, you know, we'll call it MR provider, um, and and creating serendipitous moments for the guest. So I thought maybe that this was like, hey, maybe we should be focused on creating serendipity for our users, for our guests, and creating those happy accidents and moments where they're using this technology in ways that create surprise and delight during that experience versus hey, we just happen to do something and it kind of worked. So we got lucky.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Why can't we have both?

SPEAKER_01 3:56

I well, I think the more that the uh uh the attraction developers focus on creating that those serendipitous moments for the particular users or target audience will help drive serendipity for them and finding product market fit ultimately. So, right, it's guest first primarily, or at least user first, right? If we're talking about edutainment, we don't necessarily think of them as guests, but you know, it is user first, guest first. And I think then you have a greater opportunity to find that serendipitous connectivity to a particular product market fit.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

I think you need to um make room in your heart, as it were, for serendipity rather than just being blinded by this is the only way this is going to work. This is the only way you can play this product, this is the only way we can sell this system. Flexibility, uh, and you know, don't don't give me clever generals, give me lucky generals. Serendipitous activities are very heavily based on luck. And luck means luck doesn't just fall in your lap. Sometimes you have to engineer the environment for luck to be in place. Uh, I am concerned that we are still at the point with the technology uh that we're looking for a killer application, a serendipitous application, which none of the developers have thought of yet. They're hoping that some dev out there, indie dev, is going to come up with that for them rather than they're walking out of the front door uh with a uh uh you know a master plan and a world domination plan. But maybe we can touch upon that a little bit more in a future guest cat.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yeah, I think uh I would love to do that and dig in a little bit more. But uh coming after the quick break, we will dive into the economic trends. Intercard makes cashless easy with award-winning readers, self-serve kiosks, real-time reporting, and flexible guest payment options. From plate cards and credit cards to mobile payments and QR code. It's introducing the industry's first cards in 1989. Intercard has helped operators reduce cash handling, increase guest spending, and run smarter venues. Intercard is the world leader in cashless technology. If you aren't already part of a global family of customers, we hope you'll become one too. Visit IntercardInc.com to learn more.

Saudi PIF Money Gets Repriced

SPEAKER_03 6:14

Thank you for that. And jumping into the trends in the economy quickly, and we get a little bit more uh transparency about how the uh Saudi Arabian uh investment fund is going to get their money back uh from their investments. Uh, you know, there's no such thing as free money, and while they were pouring money into their various investments, the sun was shining. Well, now that the storm clouds have come, they want their pound of flesh. And the first ones to feel that is Liv Golf, who've suddenly found out that they've uh uh ended into a lending uh agreement with uh the uh uh Saudi Arabian uh Public Investment Trust. We're looking at uh over the last few uh years since uh 2022, uh the PIF putting in about six billion uh give or take uh into the operation. And now they've turned around and come up with quite a uh quite a considerable payback plan. Uh the details are still a little bit sketchy, but it is a uh a repay, must pay under a certain period, and that has put pressure on LivGolf even more than the position they were when the sugar daddy had gone away from their operation. This is the beginning. We will now see other operations that have depended on the PIF uh as their um cash cow to suddenly look a little bit more green around the gills as they now have to enter into quite a considerable payback plan. And I wouldn't really want to get on the wrong side of the PIF for not paying back that damn.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Yeah, I would totally agree with you. And while obviously this has direct implications for other organizations tied to PIF, uh for LivGolf, this is probably the fourth or fifth nail in the coffin, not the final one, but uh this is getting pretty close to their you know their overall of decline and demise. Um this moving from having PIF as a direct investment equity holder and equity investor to now being a lender is not the right path because they're only going to continue to build debt, and I think eventually we'll just end up seeing a uh some sort of administration or you know, full-on bankruptcy.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

It would be an exit strategy that I know certain executives would favor uh rather than having this debt over them, especially as they're going to be paying a premium uh on that debt under the current conditions. But again, we don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves. We still haven't heard how many of the original uh sporting athlete golfers have uh jumped ship and uh uh run back to the uh Ryder Cup uh following uh the changes. But again, one to watch, as well as the other companies that will suddenly be looking a little bit more shirtless.

SimWorks RoboCoaster Gets Reshuffled

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Jumping into the uh trendings in the beers, um, the big news uh of time of recording was kind of a told you so moment. We had known through various sources that something was going on within Simwort's RoboCoaster. Um, and then we wake up to the news, which was a little bit spotty at the beginning and took some time to uh congeal, that they had now been acquired uh or their assets had been acquired by Intermin. After doing some digging, and now that we have a little bit more transparency as embargoes have been lifted, we get a little bit more knowledge of what's been going on. And sadly, I had some time on my hands and I created a spreadsheet. So are you sitting comfortably? Uh then I will begin. I have to, for the sake of transparency, admit that I am an ex-employee of uh Hughes Rediffusion or Fails uh Entertainment Leisure. They were the company uh many moons ago that created the Tour of the Universe uh motion simulator. They also created the Star Tours simulator for Disney, as well as being a military simulation and commercial simulation company. They made Boeing 747 and 767 simulators, military simulations. They moved into the entertainment business, they scaled their hardware down, and they they suddenly then made uh what would be known as the Ventura motion seats theatres, you know, those kind of tube systems that sat on the motion base and rocked everybody around, that then migrated to the 4D theater systems. Very popular period of our industry. Anyway, from that wreckage as Thales, or uh as Thompson rebranded out as thales and all of that, they sold off the entertainment uh simulation and media division to a company called AI Group. AI Group would then be acquired by a new startup called SimWorks, UK company. SimWorks had funny enough a lot of ex-directors uh that have been involved with the Thompson Group uh as well as with the AI Group. And this is where we enter into the confusion and murdiness of a number of our media-based attraction companies. I can point to many of the established uh media attraction companies, a point to confusing rat nets of investments and post-acquisitions. In this particular case, Simworks went on uh and started to deploy their 4D theater systems in a number of facilities. Another company, RoboCoaster, was developing robotic arm motion ride systems. They worked with companies like Dynamic Attractions, who also has gone through their own uh kind of baptism of fire. When these companies work together, money gets changed hands, they work on projects together where uh the uh the payment for the project goes to one uh one source and it is shared amongst the group. For example, RoboCoaster had involvement with uh the Harry Potter attraction at Universal that used a robotic arm and indirectly was paid through dynamics and all of that. Anyway, problems with finances occurred, and in 2015, SimWorks acquired um or merged with and acquired the assets of RoboCoaster, the RoboCoaster name going on. Uh, so the operation in 2015 became SimWorks RoboCoaster. And then over the last few years, there's been difficulties in finding projects and developing. It is clear that SimWorks RoboCoaster's uh gone through some issues, but they still sit on quite a large uh, what I would say, catalogue of IP uh and technology expertise and even some ride film content. And the rumor on the street is from uh what we can glean, ETF, uh a very well-known uh ride film and simulation company, uh, started negotiations uh towards a possible closer relationship with SimWorks. Then uh ETF in 2024 was actually acquired by Intermin Ride Attractions, as they um uh ETF's uh founder retired and there was no one really there to uh move the operation on, so it seemed as a uh a relationship of convenience for Intermin to become the god parents, as it were, to take control of that. And then, surprise, surprise, uh a couple of days ago we wake up news that SimWorks has gone into uh administration, and then uh an accelerated merger. Uh, and that accelerated merger was to create a new company called SimWorks Attractions, and that will be uh uh under the control and auspices of uh Intermin Rights, working very closely with ETF. Confused enough? Well, now you understand the pain and anguish that I have to go through chasing down these stories. The one interesting point about a lot of this is that the reason we were told uh regarding uh this accelerated uh merger agreement was that this was a uh a uh a job safeguarding pre-pack deal, an unusual term to use, but fundamentally what it meant was uh this company is about to close down if it carries on along this trajectory. We need to come up with a deal. They have prospects of sales on the table. We will give them a brand new debt-free operation uh to roll within, and uh they will be able to brush themselves off and reappear on the market, now with uh a greater uh support of Intamin, a well-known name. Now, the cynical of uh our uh audience may also raise an eyebrow and say, what interesting timing, just as Universal UK is about to start placing tenders for development work for their brand new facility. And it is easier for Intermin to use a UK operation to uh place uh the largest share of uh attraction contracts than to try and do that from their position as being a European only operation. That would be a cynics uh view, and I I'm not going to uh bow down to that. I'm just going to say, just like we've seen with uh SimEx uh iWorks, as we've seen with uh dynamic attractions, now we see with SimWorks attractions that uh this part of the market is tempestuous. There's a lot of debt still residing in a lot of these companies, and consolidation and uh scheduled uh shedding of problems is par for the course. And sadly, one of the victims of this is uh RoboCoaster, who seems not to have been salvaged in this deal.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Or it may have been salvaged in just the fact that it's uh some legacy product sitting out there, and maybe there's some future way that Enderman decides to deploy this in one of their experiences at some minor level. I'm not sure that it was necessarily a great idea initially, or maybe it was a good idea, but not well implemented. The technology wasn't quite there to deploy it properly, who knows, et cetera, et cetera. But um, yeah, I mean, I think there's there's two things going on here, like you said. One, it was a way to, you know, for SimWorks RoboCoaster to salvage their staff and their team and make sure that they have you know long going, viable employment as they move into Intamin. Um, I think there's the the cynical point of view that you, as you said, um, is uh certainly a possibility as well. I think the thing that gets me is you know a lot of what SimWorks does definitely crosses over with some of the capabilities that Intamin already has in-house. They have a whole immersive attractions division, which is basically all that SimWorks does. Um, and so uh, you know, don't know exactly where this will fit, um, other than, you know, again, like you say, uh, might be the UK division that allows Intamin to be able to um you know solve for certain important tax issues as they're working on a new universal um universal UK location.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

We will have to wait and see. I I assume the first appearance of the brand new SimWorks Attractions brand will be at the London show in September. Uh and we'll be able to uh speak to the C-suite, who seem to have survived uh uh unchanged. Uh they have just stepped over into the brand new SimWorks Attractions operation. Uh again, uh, I agree with you that there is a little bit of duplication, and you know, intermin are not going to allow uh waste uh to continue for much longer. But again, early days, only the uh uh the understanding in the contracts and acquisitions are only the ink is only now just drying. Moving on, and we touched

Topgolf Prototype Adds Amusements

SPEAKER_03 18:55

upon this in a recent uh open and shut, but we have another topgolf opening. Why do you look at me weirdly? We have lots of uh topgolf opening. Well, not like this one. Uh the New Jersey, New York facility, 27,000, follows the traditional format of three levels, multiple, uh hitting base. I've never liked that name, you know, 102 of the bloody things. But, but, but, but, but behind the scenes, we are now seeing a pivot. We are seeing this traditional format now embracing some of the new think. Uh, and some of that new thing can be seen in the addition of 20 amusement machines. So, this will be the second time that we've seen a top golf uh facility actually include uh amusement systems, as well as including competitive socializing elements, uh, and uh also pivoting a little bit more away from the uh sporttainment and a lot more towards the e-tertainment uh kind of uh model. While this is an old format construction, I think it is the beginning of a new think in their operations, and that can be indicated by how our friends at Top Golf are calling this a venue prototype.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Yeah, I was Jackie, I'm glad you mentioned that. I was just going to call out the fact that they refer to this as a prototype. Um, and so it's interesting. I mean, they they they made a what I would call small pivots. I mean, they're important pivots, but you know, adding a amusement machines, only 20 given the size of their venue, seems absolutely astronomically minuscule. Um, and uh, feel like they could have done 80 to 100 machines spread throughout the facility um or something to that extent. I know they're trying to consolidate in certain area of their you know of their venue. We've seen their quote unquote arcade, Top Golf arcade in the you know prototype in the past. So don't know if this is an expansion of that or something new, uh, but I feel like this is uh you know also a miss. But you know, look, at least they're trying to change things up. I think the one thing that stands out for me is that they still have not evolved their website to accommodate for this new prototype. So when you go to the Persiphony location on their website, it looks like just every other one of their locations. There's nothing unique, nothing new about this that's called out on the website because they've got a very specific strict format and there's no place to put in the fact that there's an arcade, that there's a social lounge with social entertainment, other than the fact that they just put in a link to their top tracer games, which is obviously part of their main uh their main attraction.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Well, the current news that we're dealing with at the moment is that their uh David, uh the new CEO, is uh actually doing a tour. He's finished his tour of top golf venues, and now he's actually visiting top tracer venues uh where their uh golf shooting range system is. The website. Sights are, you know, you if you type in in just in the search arcade or amusement machines, nothing pops up. Uh, I think the last time I tried that, it uh it sent me to the press release about the Namco partnership uh that uh was that led to the first uh Top Golf facility to have a test prototype uh arcade in it, which funny enough also had 20 machines in it. And I think someone's just done a cookie cutter and dropped in uh the uh the same kind of band dynamico experience uh into this facility to see if it worked in the US as well as it did in the UK facility, and then they're going to ride from there. You know, I look at this and I go, interesting prototype, needs more work. I look at that green outside the front of that bar and go, mini golf, mini golf, mini golf, mini golf. I look at the number of arcade machines that they've got in there, and I go, you don't know what you're doing. And then particularly I look at their swing suite simulator setup and I go, why isn't that in there? But again, early days, there's only so much uh that can be done. And I've noticed that after a major uh layoff process, that Top Golf is now suddenly uh advertising that they're on a spree for hiring uh executives to help drive the operation. So I kind of get the feeling that they're trying to write the ship of state one step at a time.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Yeah, and they're trying to at least do what they can for uh uh sorry, I was just gonna say that they're trying to do at least what they can for an existing build that was already underway, and uh, you know, they they're trying to make the modifications that they can with an existing layout. And hopefully, I may have they may have jumped the gun by using this term, the prototype term for this particular location, but at least they're beginning to test changes here, and hopefully in new builds, they'll really focus on having a new prototype.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Game experience and new marketing uh push, I think, are the key things that they need to address here. But what do we know? Moving on, and we have our friends at

Slick City Expands Beyond Slides

SPEAKER_03 24:20

uh Slit City again. We also touched upon this in a recent open and shark. Another uh example of the pivot away from the traditional norm. Uh, this isn't your grandfather's uh slide emporium and trampoline active entertainment. This is a mixed entertainment site. Um, really, we're looking at an action park that, along with its 16 slides, also now includes go-karts. It also includes mini golf. It has quite a heavy amusement mix and F. And this is really moving forwards with how the active entertainment sector is going to have to position itself to stay relevant.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Apologies. This is absolutely what uh Slick City has to do in order to stay relevant as they continue to expand. Um, I haven't had a chance to read through their FDD. Don't know if it was updated for 2026 uh to allow for this type of attraction mix. Um, you know, the prior FTDs were very strict about what they could put in, especially as it relates to active play attractions, so trampolines, et cetera, and other things. But um obviously they've added in non-active play, so mini golf, go-karting, amusement, things that are much more aligned with the traditional FEC model, even though they continue to call themselves an action park, which, you know, to be to be fair, go-karting can be action, certain amusement can have action. Mini golf is a little bit more um lackadaisical in its energy, so it maybe doesn't fit quite in the action park model. But the fact that they are experimenting at least with additional attractions, or at least letting their franchisees experiment is a good sign because I was very concerned about the speed in which Slick City was expanding with their very limited slide-based model, and um was concerned about their long-term viability, not for Slick City itself. The franchise ORs will do just fine in some sort of future IPO or exit. I was concerned for the individual franchisees who are buying into a model that was not viable over a longer period of time than five years.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

And you hit the nail on the head for me. Is this a franchisee leading the charge, or is this uh Slick City, the franchise or uh suggesting a uh expansion of the model? It will be fascinating to hear how the uh you know the Woodbridge uh facility does, uh, and also to find out from the operator, the franchise uh E uh who was the one that actually drove this particular pivot in its uh positioning. That said, we're also seeing other Slick Cities now offering a much more broader package model, as well as other uh active

Branded Food Moves Into FECs

SPEAKER_03 27:10

entertainment venues. Uh hey, uh FB es central to your uh entertainment mix if you're uh if you're sensible, if you're uh putting your investment into uh a decent FB mix, why not have a branded uh operation? And uh you can't go wrong with adding a little bit of Shaq. Um so our friends at uh Elevate Fun have uh announced that they will be incorporating into the first facility in Miami, but plans to roll out across their chain of facilities uh the big chicken brand that uh Shaq has uh established. I haven't had the pleasure of uh trying uh his uh particular blend of chicken, but uh it is a uh an IP that can fit into an elevate uh use it uh letter entertainment model quite easily. We have seen other operators in this, uh, such as Evo, I think, uh also adding food counter kind of components to their entertainment mix. And if you have the kitchen space, you can just brand uh a particular uh part of your uh food offering to be a branded uh option rather than just a generic.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

So um I'm glad we're talking about this. Uh when I saw this, I thought, okay, you know, look, interesting partnership and deal here. It makes a lot of sense given Elevate's locations in Florida. Um, and so, you know, and but I was curious, wasn't it Elevate that was also experimenting with like one or two locations that were co-located with their Elevate Fun locations with a big food court? I'm almost positive it was a big food court. I was trying to find where they were they actually like did those end up continuing, did they close those down to try to find them online? And and I couldn't, but you know, bringing in this type of thing, I would have expected to be more in their food court area than into an Elevate Fun venue, which leads me to think that the whole concept of elevate, it wasn't food, it was like something different. I thought it should have been food and they there was something weird, but it was uh would have made more sense to be in there. It makes me think that that would become non-viable, and so now they're looking for you know other food operations to come into their elevate fund locations.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

You'll remember if we jump back in the myths of time, uh, I think uh more than 24 months ago, we talked about uh Elevate uh doing a food court, we talked about round one doing a food court, and we also talked about Evo doing a food court. Uh I can't tell you the success of either of those because they disappeared without a trace. So that usually means that uh something hasn't happened or that particular model hasn't been pushed forward. And I would agree with you that uh uh something like this should be just parachuted straight into uh their existing food court if it was still operational. So uh maybe this is a new direction for their FB offering. That said, how many franchise food facilities will look at location-based entertainment? One of the few that I know uh that did make a serious input into uh breaking into our sector uh was the uh sandwich chain. I got out yeah, sorry, senior moment at the moment. Uh uh famous uh sub sandwich uh chain. Uh they put their money into uh breaking out of their traditional retail-facing facilities and going for pop-up and smaller locations, and they were looking uh the subs, uh sub chain. That Kentucky Fried Chicken, uh McDonald's, these are the kinds of chains that you would think about. Maybe that they would like to have a uh an amusement or location-based entertainment presence. But also remember that these operations also have presences in the theme park sector where they see a much better return on their investment.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Agreed. And the theme park sector tends to have the model in many cases where you have these independent operators coming in and operating particular spaces acting as lesees of some space versus you know, most FECs, if they're operating F and B, it's typically a single experience single owner operator across both the amusement and the um and the F B, unless it's obviously restaurant first and they're adding in amusement. And then sometimes you have route operators, right? That goes the inverse that way, but that's obviously not the way Elevate Fun works. And so, you know, I think the one thing I'd be uh a little bit concerned about if I'm Elevate Fun, um, or if I'm in any FEC who's bringing in an outside franchisee, is just a um not being able to control the entire guest experience. And if somebody's frustrated with the food they get at Big Chicken, they're not going to leave a negative review for Big Chicken, they're going to leave a negative review for Elevate Fun. And that is uh, and you don't have full control when it's a franchise uh location with a separate owner operator inside of your facility.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

That cuts both ways. And uh, you know, again, Shaq is an incredibly uh astute businessman when it comes to this. And if this doesn't work uh and it uh uh impedes the brand, his rollout plan, schedules, then he'll he'll move back. Anyway, moving on, and we had uh one of our I told you so moments.

New Marketing Leadership At D&B

SPEAKER_03 32:50

So we kind of called it that we saw that uh our friends at Dave and Busters really did need to sort out their marketing and online presence and just you know nail everything down. And surprise, surprise, we wake up a couple of days ago to uh the appointment of Jeremy as chief marketing officer. Uh fascinating where Jeremy comes from. He's uh ex uh Planet Fitness. Uh he's also been with Spin Masters, so that's kind of in the exercise and fitness realm. But he's also uh served some tenure at uh Walt Disney Company, mainly on the marketing and brand side there, as well as seven years with PepsiCo. So that's kind of telling us that uh, you know, he he understands hopefully the uh social media side of the marketing push. He also understands big brand, but sadly there's not a lot of entertainment there other than uh his two years with uh Walt Disney Company. And that wasn't really on the park side or the direct entertainment divisional side of the business. So a lot to do here uh and uh a very short period of time to do it in.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

He's got a very big lift ahead of him, but uh the one thing that is both, I think, going to be a plus and a minus for him and his past experience is that he does come from a lot of franchise experience. And while Dave and Busters is obviously not a franchise, um, he's familiar with making sure that each individual location is uh is represented based on what they have at that location. One of my biggest frustrations with Dave and Busters is that as they began to roll out new locations with their social bays, there was no distinction between a Dave and Busters with or without the social base on the website. And it was really difficult to understand what am I getting at this particular location? And he at least understands the idea of multi-location site website-based models, how to market individual locations uniquely depending on their mix of um you know, of unique things and capabilities. And so hopefully he's gonna bring that to the table and have much more of a regional, local, you know, hyper-local marketing focus versus a large big brand focus. Um, you know, you need both of those in something to Dave and best or scale.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Chief marketing officer means that he's going to be controlling a team, and that team is going to have to deal with the brand, deal with the facility, deal with the experience, and correctly impart that to your core audience. And they're not doing a good job of either of those, as well as I assume, which will fall under his retinue, having to consider what he has to do for main event.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Uh our friends. Main event? I don't know what you're talking about. Main event doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

What's that weird brand you're talking about, Kevin? Yeah. F1 Arcade also uh going through uh some changes. Uh the uh Las Vegas venue where we were visiting at the beginning of the year has uh you know shipped up and uh parachuted in uh a brand new general manager, the uh individual,

F1 Arcade Tries New Operations Leadership

SPEAKER_03 36:10

CJ, had actually uh started the company back in March. So while we were uh wandering around the facility, he was deputy manager there. Um and for all we know, we may have bumped into him. He's now been promoted up to general manager of uh the whole Las Vegas uh operation. And it is interesting to see that he comes from a background in competitive socializing. He was involved with state of play, who owned a number of the uh competitive socializing properties in the US. Uh he was with Flight Club for two years, uh, and he was also with Buffalo Wild Wings for 10 years. So he, you know, he's he's got the running a um uh uh a restaurant uh and dealing with a bar mentality down pat. And hopefully, while he was with Flight Club, he also got uh his fingers burnt uh in operating entertainment uh experiences. I get the feeling that this will be the beginning of a progression uh within the American operation of F1 arcade to you know create an established C3.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

This will be this this could be good. I mean, I'm hoping that uh you know CJ with his experience can turn that Vegas location around. I mean, when we went in there, uh it was uh it was a ghost town, and so uh you know, really need somebody with this type of experience to come in and uh and lift it up. So uh looking forward to seeing what he does there.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Yeah, next March we'll we'll be uh hopefully able to see uh uh the fruits of the labor. Moving on, and another we called it uh we knew that Cosm needed to uh sort out its experience side. We actually

Cosm Levels Up With Sony Funding

SPEAKER_03 38:00

mentioned that in the previous uh sound off. Um we we knew that they were lacking in that department, and so they've parachuted in Lindsay uh in the role of uh senior director of experience design. Uh and it is interesting that Lindsay actually comes from uh working for a year with uh Sphere Entertainment uh and uh also uh has spent uh seven months, but uh spent some time with uh industrial lights and magic. Let's hope that uh she has the capabilities to deal with uh the changing landscape, especially following some news that we're just going to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Uh yeah, this is great to see. And yeah, absolutely. This is another area where we said this is some improvements that Cosm needed to make. So I'm glad they're finding the right people to put in these places.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

We hope uh we hope that they've got uh their finger on the pulse of the people and the fit that they need, and they're going to be needing to position themselves that because of the news that broke just a matter of hours of uh recording this event, where Sony uh Pictures Entertainment, the uh the key cornerstone of the entertainment uh side of the Sony operation, has decided to put a hundred million dollars into Cosm. Uh that makes them in a Series C filing the leading C Series C funder or investor, though this will turn into uh a minority stake in the overall Cosm operation. That said, this uh Series C is going to bring in uh an expected $250 to $3 million uh into the operation. And for part of that investment, that means that the uh Sony Pictures Entertainment chairman and CEO actually gets uh uh a chair at the board at COSM. And I I think that this will have serious ramifications to the rollout of COSM facilities going forwards. We know that they're sitting on two other facilities that are in the works, but I also think that this will change maybe the IP and the content that they roll in their facilities, having access to this powerhouse.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Oh, 100%. This will impact the content. I mean, obviously, the the investment is of you know to help with expansion and growth and opening new locations, but also in content development. There's no question that Sony is looking at Cosm as a new medium for uh either both new media in general, so creating new types of visual media that can play on Cosmos theaters, or taking their existing, you know, this looking at this as like the new IMAX to some extent. Um, and is there a way to uh you know lift up a really struggling cinema market uh and uh looking at Cosmos, maybe this new direction in which it's much more experiential cinema instead of just going and you know watching a flat screen?

SPEAKER_03 41:19

Experiential cinema writ large. Uh we've been talking about Cinetainment, we've been talking about uh the others. I like the analogy of IMAX very much. Uh, and I am also sure that Sony Pictures uh saw how well the Matrix screenings went at the Cosmos facilities and wanted a slice of that. Wonder how Warner's going to feel about going forwards. Um be prepared to see a competitor to Cosms on the horizon very soon. Moving on, and for all of you that follow the Tourist of Pain, that's where these operations fit in to the mix. And then moving on to the next tech and IP trends. Holoviz gave us a little bit of transparency to their involvement with uh Netflix House. I wasn't aware that a number of the attractions that were parachuted into Netflix House were developed by Holoviz. It's interesting that they were the bidders that won this particular. The Dallas and the Philadelphia facilities have a mix, and the uh top nine mini golf uh uh Mr. Sacramento, uh sorry, Sac O Manto Day. I I love the uh the manga series. I should be able to pronounce its name, uh, uh as well as the Squid Games attractions that have gone into each one of these facilities has been developed by Holoviz, and they've now been able to uh tell us a little bit more about what they've been developing and actually share a lot more behind the scenes. Uh, again, how much of this will be cookie-cutted into the Las Vegas facility that we'll be opening up uh at the end of the year, we don't know yet. And how much of the lessons learned from this uh development or these developments will go into the future facilities are questions that need to be asked. But at least we're getting a little bit more transparency behind the curtain of how these projects were developed.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

And

Netflix House Updates And Vendor Insight

SPEAKER_01 43:30

you know, I don't know that maybe Netflix House had a certain period of time where they had to embargo their uh their involvement is the you know attraction developer. Um, maybe this is uh part of their larger partnership with Netflix House that as they're expanding and being involved in Las Vegas, I don't know the reasons. Um I would hope, though, that just speaking to Netflix House Las Vegas, that it's not just a cut cookie cutter carbon copied from one location to the next, but that they do indeed think about the uh You know, really try to create some new attractions for that location. And obviously with the idea of rotation from one location to the next versus a carbon copy. So, you know, Netflix House in Vegas is the same as Philadelphia, is the same as Dallas.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

And a constant uh iteration or updating of the Netflix house concept, not sitting on one particular uh selection of uh uh attractions seems to be written into their charter because we woke up to the news of uh a brand new immersive experience that's going to be parachuted into uh both Netflix locations. I don't know which attractions at those uh uh uh facilities are going to be ripped out and uh replaced by K-pop Demon Hunter, the immersive uh experience, but it is clear that they are really working on the idea of constant updates uh uh with their IP to these attractions. Uh and as you say, hopefully that once they find a successful one, they will migrate that across their venues. Uh I don't know too much about who's behind this immersive experience and what level of immersion they're going for. But again, uh hopefully in a couple of months' time we'll be able to get a look at that.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Yeah, I find the one thing I'll call out here is that you know this is something that uh K pop Demon Hunters, you know, this immersive experience would have been something that they would have partnered with Fever to test out and do uh a couple of pop-up locations for this. And you know what? Now they don't have to use Fever. They have their own venues that they can trial and test these types of things out. And it is interesting that you haven't seen a Netflix Fever new attraction partnership in quite some time since Netflix house opened. So something that Fever, I'm sure, is obviously thinking about as they open up some of their own permanent locations to test some of their concepts and uh you know, trying to replace maybe the um the nice pipeline that Netflix provided them for new attraction concepts.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

And not just Fever, there are other companies that are involved in the pop-up attractions market that will be looking at Netflix house and thinking maybe they need a permanent bricks and mortar uh facility rather than just uh taking available space per uh per project. Permanent space per project, and uh our friends at Mattel have doubled down on the Uno Social Club. I had heard mixed reports about how it went in Vegas, but uh uh you know uh our information must have been incorrect because uh the company has now said that they're going to be rolling out across the US at least uh five pop-ups um over uh the next couple of months, uh weeks and months. Uh I have the list below, but you know, Philadelphia, New York, Florida, Texas, all of the usual suspects and Los Angeles will all be getting a Uno Social Club. Remember, the Uno Social Club includes the Uno Tables, it includes uh DJ, includes uh uh members uh Master of Ceremonies, and it also includes a uh you know special drinks and cocktails uh based around the uh the Uno brand. Well, hopefully we'll get a chance to hear a lot more about how popular this approach is going to be outside of the local mix.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Yeah, I mean, I'm just running something from their website now, you know, talking about the Uno Social

Uno Social Club And New Social Formats

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Club. Um, you know, I still get the sense that these are pop-ups. Like, I don't know that this is permanent locations. I still feel like this is something that is meant to be temporary coming around to all these different cities, and maybe they will end up being permanent, but it feels very much like a um like a like a speakeasy type one-off unique locations in very popular markets. And so anyway, um, you know, way to be obviously to be seen, but um, you know, I like the concept. I think it could actually do really well. It could. It still just feels to me like it's not fully defined as to what exactly it is and what exactly I'm to experience. And is it going to be around two months from now, or do I have to get there now and see it, or am I gonna be able to you know have time to get my friends together? That I just don't know. And um, I do want to get into one of these in uh the next time I'm out in you know LA late, you know, or or in Philly or something like that, to just to see what one of this experiences is like.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

Yeah, we we need to see if this may be Mattel's Netflix house moment where they are testing uh this particular brand to see uh this particular approach to see if it will fit on a standalone stage as well as on a pop-up stage. But at the moment, it just feels like a pop-up speakeasy uh to get the brand out there. Uh competitive socializing is uh gathering momentum and unique applications uh that can be deployed beyond the beer pond, beyond the X-ray, beyond the darts, beyond the racing simulators, beyond the you know the off-the-shelf approaches. We see some novel uh uh development. And here we have a fusion from our friends at Battle Up, a fusion of what I would say is uh tabletop mini golf and snooker or pull, uh, and we have interactive crazy pool. It combines 15 unique holes uh which are configured, and it's a modular design, so you can have as many tables as supported uh by digital screens, and uh hopefully we will get a chance uh to see it in action at one of the coming shows in the next couple of months.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

Yeah, I was trying to find a video here that we could play just to get a sense for what it is, but they actually don't have this yet on their Battle Up website. So this is clearly such a new product launch that they have not yet put it on their website. I was able to find maybe one YouTube video that maybe showing it at uh you know at one of their venues in the locations that it's already active. But anyway, really was hoping to find it. I you know, we've seen certain concepts like this, not necessarily with pool, but with uh mini golf locations where they have the elevated mini golf and using the backside of the putter, the little rubber handled pipe of the putter, and you're hitting the ball sort of like pool. So they've seems like they've just taken that concept and elevated it and created an actual game format.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

Yeah, we're a little ahead of the game here on this one, uh, but I'm sure their marketing will catch up soon. Moving

Area 15 Adds A Straightforward Thrill

SPEAKER_03 50:45

on, and our friends at Area 15 have added a new attraction to their zone two, as they like to call the area where the jumbo jet and uh the interstellar arc is and all of the other, and Universal unleashed is. They've added a drop tower. So we have in zone one their raising and falling uh uh cocktail experience that we did many moons ago. Uh, I remember Brandon, and now just across the other side, you'll hear the screams and shouts of the drop tower. I look at this with some interest. Um, this feels to me like Area 15 looking to try and keep the momentum going uh and the drawability to zone two, as much as uh trying to generate uh uh an audience, a regular, a recurring audience to zone one of their offering. They've also gone through, if uh some of you will remember, we talked about in the previous open and chut, that they've added uh some new entertainment inside of uh the main Area 15 unit. Uh, and we are also about to hear of some new openings within the zone two, uh, some new food uh outlets as well as a new uh competitive socializing entertainment outlet going into that space. Constant movement on the uh Las Vegas venue, though we still haven't really seen them break out with new venues in other localities.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

This attraction, I'm really trying to I'm really trying to understand how it's different from a typical drop tower. You know, they talk about uh you know, I know there's supposed to be a little bit of a pre-show beforehand that's got some art and some immersive and cinematic story driven, but it's a fucking drop tower. So like let's let's like let's just call it what it is and then try to make it something more. They're not wearing VR goggles or anything else. There's nothing, there's no additional experience here. It is a drop tower with maybe a bit of a story-driven pre-show, but like like not every not everything at Area 15 has to be psychedelic or you know, trippy art or have altered states of perception. Like we can just have fun attractions that you know are thrill-based as well.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

They're still looking for that Omega moment aren't there. Yeah. Moving on, and as the summer sun burns up London, uh, the

World Cup Marketing Opportunity Missed

SPEAKER_03 53:25

World Cup burns up uh the TV and the hospitality, I can attest to the bar industry in the UK and in Scotland and other parts of Europe are doing incredibly well uh out of the TV viewing. Um and I am just a little bit surprised that we in the location-based entertainment didn't really jump on the bandwagon and just doing a cursory observation of the operations that are pushing uh the FIFA World Cup or association with soccer at some level. We have our friends at Neo Experience with their Neo Soccer, uh, which uh has just been launched. Uh, again, I would argue that should have been launched back in March and pushed heavily. But again, you know, what do we know? Tocker Social, we'll talk a little bit more about what they're up to. Uh, we have our friends at Maya, which we've talked about before with their virtual reality audience-based uh experience that has a soccer theme. And then we have the amusement boys and electrocoin, I talked about during open day. Coverage had their football champ system, and surprise, surprise, our friends at Sega uh have been selling the Ice Games uh World Football Pro. Those are products that aren't affiliated. Uh yeah, none of these products are linked to uh directly branded to the World Cup. Uh obviously, no one has pockets that deep uh in our sector at the moment. Uh, the one the one thing that always catches me is uh sub soccer. I've been following the team behind this concept over the years, many years of this table, table-based football. Oh it's a table top, but uh the ball is encaptured in uh uh at the bottom of the table within a netted environment, and it has scoring, and it's a kind of a mini football audience experience. This system seems to be riding high. Sega uh Amusement International actually promoted the products that they had that had a football or soccer link to them, and it you know kind of showed how uh half-hearted our industry has been to supporting what could have been quite a popular uh branding uh association.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

This was a complete miss by our industry, frankly. Um, it's not like we didn't know the World Cup was coming. Um, it comes every four years and it was coming to the US. Obviously, we knew this uh long, long ago, far longer than four years ago, uh, because they announced uh you know the upcoming locations many times, many years before. And uh, you know, it's great. I mean, I know they're trying to capitalize on the popularity of soccer for the launch of these attractions and launch of these amusement pieces, um, but uh and these you know locations, obviously like Topa Social, et cetera, but they should have done this at Amusement Expo last year or at least at an app iAP Expo last year to give operators time to install these, you know, have them ship out, get them installed, get them operational, and then market them as well, leading up to it. So it's not about just having it available during the World Cup. You want to pre-market leading up to the World Cup and leverage everything else that's built around it. This is what we talk about all the time as it relates to valuable IP layered over the top of amusement products or amusement machines and uh other attractions. When you know a movie is coming out, especially a sequel to a movie that you might already have something in your facility, move it towards the front. Leverage marketing to get the word out about the fact that you've got this type of IP, and I can guests can come and interact with something they just saw on the movie screen in your venue. This is exactly what we should have done with the World Cup, and we completely whiffed on this as an industry.

SPEAKER_03 57:26

Yes, um we're in a transmedia industry that doesn't know that it's in a transmedia industry, really. Um I would argue that our friend at Dave and Busters, the new uh marketing director, will have to take a long, hard look at how they have branded themselves next door to this World Cup. Uh, the same way that our friends at uh Tocker Social have embraced the watch party element of uh the World Cup and have been talking about their uh Paris, their brand new Paris facility, seeing uh vast attendance and you know to watch the game. But that is a unique watch the game kind of approach rather than a concurring branded experience that could have built up, maximized, and then uh been played into generating a repeat visitation. These are the issues that uh our industry is going to have to nip in the bud and become an IP uh ascendant industry, or else someone else will come along and eat our uh eat our dinner for us. But you know, we can't be complacent about this.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

Absolutely, completely agreed.

SPEAKER_03 58:39

Moving

Smart Glasses Need A Killer App

SPEAKER_03 58:40

on and uh away from the soccer, uh, but to the uh the other competition that we were dealing with, AWE has concluded, uh and we've kind of seen uh the battleground laid out for the next revolution of uh what is being called smart tech. Uh I'm having issues here because not all smart tech is the same, and there is a danger that uh the desperation of the media uh to try and restart the bandwagon for uh immersive technology, they are blurring the lines between what the technology offers. You know, we have our friends at uh Meta Ray Band, oh sorry, Meta with their Ray Band brand. Uh and of course, we have the two flavors. We have the AI version uh that really is a camera and uh a you know AI voice assistant, and then we have the higher quality system which includes a display to give you that augmented reality component. And all of the four systems here are really talking to that augmented reality uh uh approach, and you can kind of see that they're expensive for this. So you really have to have that killer application that will drive people to using them. All of these systems have been uh pivoted towards consumer application, all of them have that screen as well as uh that AI smartware capability, but that sticker shock, you know, you're not gonna get people to put their hands in their pocket unless you can offer them something that's compelling. And that serendipity we were talking about earlier hasn't turfed up yet. We haven't got uh a killer app uh on these systems that you can point to and say, haha, this is the reason why I'm going to spend a thousand dollars on one of these uh head-mounted glass systems that makes me look a little bit stupid. And the danger of looking a little bit stupid was kind of seen when Spec at AWE launched uh their system uh at the at the show, uh, and especially as they did uh a number of uh live TV interviews of the launch, and they had the pleasure of watching the stock ticker ticking down uh on their stock price as the audience voted with their feet on how much they thought those glasses sucked and they cost too much. Really, you know, real-time painful situation to see Snap uh uh taking a pounding. And you know, to be blunt, their prices haven't bounced back after this. Uh again, the audience is still not a hundred percent sold on these AI or AR glasses, sorting out the confusion of what does what, sorting out the confusion of what I'm getting for my over a thousand buckaroonies. Um, you know, I was able to put the system on and do one of the game experiences that they had. Surprise, surprise, they created a mini location-based entertainment experience. And I think uh during the last sound off, I was just about to go off and do this while I I had the chance, and you know, I can say that the technology is as comparable as what we were seeing from HoloLens, but now in a glasses form factor, a little bit uh wider field of view, but not uh astounding, and still you know leaving me a little bit cold to how compelling and immersive the experience was. Though I expect specs to come up with at least one killer app in the next couple of months, or else they've shot their wad a lot early. And the dangers of you know throwing yourself into the market too early can be seen by what's happening with Meta at the moment with their AI and AR glasses. You know, we've talked about the legal problems that Meta's having regarding the screening of material that is being captured by their uh smartware. We now have a whistleblower revealing that outside contractors were getting access to pictures that were um unsolicited, uh, and were uh, you know, the customer would not be happy that uh a third-party contractor was getting access to them. Meta has uh kind of not admitted to any faults here, but uh internal leaks have revealed that they have paused the employee tracking program following uh data being collected by smartware systems. Really nice to think about buying your smartware only to be harvested as a guinea pig. And then we have the Pennsylvania lawmakers turning around and throwing out a bill, which they're hoping uh to uh put into action where all uh wearable, recordable AI and AR systems will require a recording light indicator, and that they're actually putting into the uh bill that it will be an offense to cover up that light or to uh deactivate that light and collect material still. This could cause other states and other countries to think about a similar process, and then we go back to that glass hole moment uh that uh killed our friends with the eyeglass, uh Google Glass platform. You know, we are at that moment where how long will the fashionability of this tech uh carry it across uh into uh majority applications without a killer app?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:38

I think you just nailed the, you know, you hit the nail on the head. It's not the fashionability as much as it is the killer application. If there were a killer application that were to come out, uh fashion would follow. And um, you know, I think there would be, you know, it'd be a complete revolution, but they've you know, all of these manufacturers have really struggled to come up with killer app, at least the consumer level. Um, you know, I think we're uh you know, as we talked about in the guest Gablia BLX show just a couple of days ago, you know, there's some um there's some potential LVE opportunities here with these, uh, this form factor. Um and you know, we saw at AWE as well, there's some enterprise uh applications for these as well. Um, but certainly at the uh consumer level um and for all the privacy concerns that exist without that killer app, they're dead in the water.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:28

Yeah, yeah. Well, we we will have to wait and see. I I think uh Mark uh still feeling the bruises from his uh metaverse, and he will be throwing some cash. We have Connect in September, which is the great tech gathering, where he will be showing the latest new aspects to uh his uh suite of platforms, and we expect to see some wow. Though whether that wow turns into sales, we'll have to wait and see.

Dream Park Pivots Toward Kiosks

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

Another thing that we had a chance to see at uh AWE was uh the production prototype of uh the mixed reality experience from our friends at Dream Park. They had the kiosk system that they have deployed uh into Dave and Busters, and I was able to speak uh to the team after the show for some clarifications of some of the statements that were made during the event. First off, the two facilities that had been opened running the Dream Park experience were pop-up temporary test facilities for them to uh understand if they could charge a premium price for the experiences that they were offering. Following that and the information that they collected, they pivoted the operation now towards selling uh the Dream Park package as a kit, uh as uh a pelican case full of a number of headsets uh dominating a certain space and being able to see the mixed reality experience through their headsets. That has now migrated on to the next phase, which is the dream box, which is the kiosk self-service system. Uh, and the current prototype that was there doesn't have it, but the final production version, I'm assured, will have the clean box UV lighting system in uh as a means of sanitization for all of those systems. Again, my concerns about wipe down. I I voiced it to the team, they took it on board, and they you know they kind of stated that they are you know still a work in progress understanding it. We were lucky enough at AWE during the LBEXR uh stage uh presentations to actually have uh a member of the executive team from the Dave and Busters at Hollywood that is running this system. Sadly, I didn't have the time while I was in Los Angeles to uh actually go to it. And you know, they made it clear that they have seen some interesting results from running this experiment, and they're now in discussions about rolling this out. And our friends at Dream Parks are in discussions with over 20 venues to install their pop-up installation. Uh, you know, and they listed about three or four venues that have already started to roll this. It is also being used as a kind of a party uh platform, birthday party platform, as well as an attraction. And uh hopefully by the time of IALPA in November, we should have uh a better picture of how sticky this approach has been, this pivot in their approach has been.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:54

Well, I find it really apropos that we started the sound off with the concept of serendipity and uh and then we end with basically what is effectively uh Dream Park looking for their serendipity and being agile, being nimble, making changes to their model. Um, you know, while I have still struggles with some of their form factor, having to hold the thing with one hand. Um, you know, the the game experience itself is uh is is a little bit um a little bit of a letdown, you know, after you've done it for a little while, it gets a little bit old. But like all that to be said, they are continuing to experiment and shift and try things. I think this kiosk type model is really unique, is really interesting. We haven't seen this in any other type of VR or AR experience yet in this form factor. So I do appreciate that they're continuing to think out of the box, truly, and move forward um and and find a way forward. And it would be interesting to see how they continue to evolve their gameplay and their content and um and even their overall um physical experience with their with their device and their space.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:02

I was able to play Wizard's Jewel, uh, which is a wand-based uh MR experience, uh so moving away from the Mario-esque kind of approach and now creating a wizard's environment with cauldrons and uh uh stalls and magic activity if you wave your wand in the correct way, yes. Uh you know, it it was an experience in uh materiality, it was compelling for a period of time, but you know, longevity I do not see there. But maybe that's not something that they are focused on at the moment, but more on a kind of wizarding wonder uh initially. Uh and again, we really do need to come to grips in more ways than one with how they're going to be operating their uh head-mounted displays, uh, especially as they're still using MetaQuest IIIs uh in this broken down or non-strapped configuration. And uh I think that the company will need to consider moving over to another manufacturer's headset. But again, 20 facilities uh utilizing their system if they can establish that, if they can create a launch pad uh to build upon, then hopefully serendipity will strike. Yep. Anyway, that's it from me for this particular sound off. Uh, we have uh a horde of uh Stinger reports bouncing out the door as we speak. We also have

Wrap Up And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_03 1:11:35

an entertainment social arena in the works covering the London sector of competitive socializing, and I'd just like to thank all of those that are keeping us up to date and keeping us uh straight and true about this. Always use our LinkedIn if you need to reach out to me or directly through our email.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:55

All right. Well, another great sound off with Kevin Williams, and that wraps up this week's. We'll see you on the next one. Have a good one.

Brandon Willey

Host