Parent and Child Fostering with Laura and Ben

Parent and child fostering is a very specialised type of fostering. 

Parent and child placements give parents, with new babies or very young children, the opportunity to develop their parenting skills and gain support from a specially trained foster carer. These placements can help keep families together.

In this episode, meet Laura a passionate advocate of parent and child fostering who began her fostering journey with Barnardo's in 2015. We're also joined by Ben from our team who gives us an insight into application process and the skills required.  We delve into the depths of parent and child fostering support, highlighting the crucial role of fostering connections and building trust. 

This episode is a treasure trove of insights, experiences, and advice for those interested in this life-changing journey. Be sure to tune in and get an inside look into the world of parent and child fostering.

To learn more about fostering and adoption with us, visit our Linktr.ee https://linktr.ee/barnardosfosteringni

Transcript

Ness: 0:00

Today's episode is going to be about a very special aspect to fostering, which is parent and child fostering, and on the call today I've got Ben Rice, one of our social workers, here in the Barnardo's Fostering and Adoption Northern Ireland team and Laura, who is our only parent and child foster care. Would that be right? Yes, okay, let me just start off with Ben very quickly. Can you just explain what parent and child fostering is?

Ben: 0:33

It's a very specialised type of fostering. We don't get a huge amount of referrals for it, but we do get fairly regular referrals and we certainly we have a situation where we can't meet the need. As you point out, Laura and Tom, her husband, are our only parent and child carers and really the Trust will contact ourselves when they when I suppose there's been there's ongoing involvement, there's ongoing social services involvement with a parent, potentially an unborn baby or potentially a child who's already been born, and there may be concerns just around the parent's capacity to safely and appropriately care for that child. And really what the Trust are looking for is a supportive placement which is ultimately a safe setting but will allow then an assessment of that parent's capacity to care for for the child to be completed. They're time limited placements.

Ben: 1:42

We work towards a period of 12 weeks and I suppose the reason for that is that they're very intensive placements. I mean, Laura will be able to speak more to that than I, but there is quite significant expectation of our parent and child carers in terms of obviously being available and there to support the parent really at all times and that is quite a quite an ask. So for that reason that they are time limited, but also the feeling is it's 12 weeks does allow for quite a detailed assessment to be made of that parent's capacity to care for the child. So yeah, that's in effect what they are. You know, historically I suppose they're being residential settings would have offered these types of placements and are still available. I think there's been a decrease in resources there. So we found that the Trust are increasingly coming to fostering agencies to see if there are parent and child fostering placements available for that work, to allow that work to be done.

Ness: 2:53

Okay. So, Ben, let me just recap a second. This is really an intervention, isn't it, by the Trusts to try and keep parents and small babies or unborn babies together, but to make sure that a child is safe with that parent for whatever reason they want to put the parent often mother and baby, but it could be both parents with a baby in a foster care situation for a time limited amount of time to effectively observe and see how that parent manages with the challenges that come with a very small baby. I'm assuming these small babies that we're talking about some new newborns for the most part. Is that right?

Ben: 3:39

That's the most part, yeah.

Ness: 3:41

Okay, and I should also point out that we're in Northern Ireland and we do time limited for, as you said, was it 12 weeks?

Ben: 3:48

12 weeks, yeah.

Ness: 3:49

Yes, in other parts of the UK that might look very different in terms of how the placements work, so it's worth checking in to see how other services support parents and children. Laura, hello, Hello. So I know we've spoken lots of times before about this in our virtual online events, but for the benefit of those people who are listening for the first time, can you just give us a little background of how you came into parent and child fostering?

Laura: 4:25

Okay, my husband and I came into Barnardo's in 2015,. But actually prior to that, about eight years before that, we had always had an interest in fostering and had always felt that it was something that we should do and could do in the future. So we had previous coming to Barnardo's. We had actually investigated fostering. We had gone through our Skills to Foster programme that is usually run to give an outline. It's normally, I think, and Ben can perhaps correct me on this, but I think it's normally about six weeks or something like that. It can look slightly different depending on how it's spread out, but it was a really good course which gave us an idea of what fostering involved, how it looked in practice. It touched a little bit on the parents and child, although, to be honest, I suppose at that stage it was just generally we were thinking about fostering. But at the end of the course we actually decided that it wasn't for us at that particular time.

Laura: 5:32

We felt it would be in the future, but my husband and I were both working full time at that stage and we thought that for us, that it just wouldn't be the right time, that we wouldn't be able to give everything that we would want to be able to give to support a young person or somebody coming into our home.

Laura: 5:52

So actually we banked it at that stage and then, about eight years later, whilst I was thinking about taking early retirement, I just happened to see an advertisement from Barnardo's, Northern Ireland, looking for parent and child foster carers and to be honest, I mean that really was stirred something in me. I've always loved tiny babies. I love that stage for their own children. I also I believe passionately about trying to keep a child with its mother within its family's situation where that is possible and where that is safe. And, coming from a teaching background, it also meant that it is something again that I have spent my working life doing, which is teaching, mentoring and enabling young people to learn new skills. So that all came together and so we became foster carers. We registered with Barnardo's in 2015.

Ness: 6:52

Fantastic. So you went through the process of becoming a foster carer, and then what additional training. What happened thereafter, when you were like I want to be a parent and child foster carer? Was there specific training?

Laura: 7:07

Yes, although the agency in Northern Ireland didn't have any other parent and child foster carers at that stage, I have to say they were very well organised and Ben was my supervising social worker at that stage and was very good about organising specific training and bringing over some speakers from the mainland who had been involved in parent and child placements to be able to talk to myself and others who were interested and then getting together with a few other agencies here in Northern Ireland who already did something off that ilk. So that was a really good foundation, as well as all the usual statutory training that we do with Barnardo's NI as well, because obviously a lot of First Aid all those sorts of things will be relevant, whether it's parent and child or any sort of placement.

Ness: 7:58

One of the things that strikes me about parent and child fostering as opposed to the more traditional form of fostering is that you're not bringing one individual into your life. You're bringing a full grown adult, maybe a young adult, but certainly a full grown adult as well as a baby, possibly both parents, and I'm just wondering if you can talk about what that is like to develop a working relationship with an adult young adult whose also just given birth, possibly, and maybe having hormones all over the place. How do you, how do you, create an alliance?

Laura: 8:31

Well, as you say, you know that is one of the big challenges Ben touched on earlier about these. Placements are normally about three months because they are incredibly intensive, and that is one of the things that I think is different, in that you're not just bringing a child into your home, and a child who's perhaps going to school for part of the week, but someone who is coming in who will be living with you, and an adult, for twenty-four-seven, and on top of that, as you say, you've a brand new baby who will be waking through the night, who will be needing fed through the night. So that, I would say, is the biggest challenge of doing a parent and child placement, that you do have an adult and you do have the baby. And I think a big part of, I think it's good to clarify, that a big part of what I see my role to be is not directly involved with the baby. I mean, obviously I am. I'm always there, I'm always watching, I'm always giving advice, sounding board for the mum but I'm there to enable the mum to do it herself and to perhaps her help her develop skills that she hadn't already developed. So really a large part of my work is with, with the mum we have. When I talk about mum, as you pointed out, it can be a dad, it could be both parents. My experience has been just with the placements we have done has been a mum. So when I say mum, I just like to clarify that. So I think a huge part of it, and a really important part of it, is developing a good relationship with the mum because obviously you're there.

Laura: 10:13

The mum will know when she's coming into a placement that this will be going towards some sort of assessment. That is not carried out by me personally, but obviously it will be social services who will be doing the final assessment, but they will. The reports that I have to write, both daily and weekly, will feed into that assessment. So that can be very daunting for a mum coming in who, as you say, has just given birth. There's a lot going on, she's losing her sleep and so on. So I see it very much as being a multifaceted role.

Laura: 10:44

I'm there to support her first of all, especially in the first half of the placement, because she may have had surgery there are so many maybe may really have some difficulties, may not be sleeping well. So it's there to be a support to the mum, a listening ear to offer advice, and sometimes I suppose it takes the mum a little bit of time just to trust me to realise that, yes, she can ask questions. That's not going to be held against her. I would always stress and say, look, we all ask questions as mums, even if you've had several children. Every child can be different, so don't be afraid to ask questions, I will. I will quite often maybe not have the direct answer myself, so I will be asking questions of other professionals. That's a strength to ask a question, not necessarily a weakness. So it's about encouraging her, it's about being open with her as well.

Laura: 11:42

So anything that goes in a report to social services will they have been seen by the mum.

Laura: 11:51

We will have discussed any issues that have arisen during the day will be discussed informally with her and at the end of the week she will actually see the assessments, any reports that are going back, and will be given the opportunity to comment on it if she feels that she needs to. And then in the second half of the placement it changes slightly Whilst the first half for six weeks in our placements, which is how we organise it here in Barnardo's NI, is that it is. The emphasis is slightly more on the support. At that stage there will still be assessment ongoing, but in the second half it will be definitely give, I'm taking the opportunity to step back a little bit so that the mum has been given the opportunity to demonstrate the skills that she will need and that hopefully she has learned and able to show, such as her baby, physically, emotionally, all those sorts of things, and then she's actually given the opportunity to show that she actually has learned those and can demonstrate those before the end of the placement.

Ness: 12:55

I imagine that for new mums, who are sort of on the radar of social services, and new mums generally probably have an awful lot of people coming into their lives trying to check on the baby and baby's progress, and I'm just wondering how much of your role is also advocacy and how much you have to engage with all those other services that may be supporting this young family.

Laura: 13:21

You're absolutely right.

Laura: 13:22

We often joke that you know the house becomes a little bit like Piccadilly Circus or revolving door because there are so many people in and out.

Laura: 13:30

Quite apart from social workers, you've got health visitors, you've got midwives, you've got doctors, you've got all sorts of people who are involved in that particular placement.

Laura: 13:44

So I do feel that I am an advocate there for her as well, because I will be the only sort of stable, or constant factor, throughout those 12 weeks and we do get to know each other, and on a very close level. If you are up three times a night and you're sitting together in her bedroom while she feeds the baby which is one of the jobs that I would have to do you know we'll sit and we'll chat and I'll find out about her life, and you know I share some of my life as well. So your lives do become entwined during that time, and so I think I do get a good understanding, whereas maybe someone who's only dropping in, maybe to do a CAMHS assessment or whatever it happens to be, will only get to know the mum for an hour and a half, two hours on a couple of sessions. So I'm there perhaps to balance with other things that may not have been apparent during that hour and a half that that person was there.

Ness: 14:44

Which brings me on to something else which might be going on. We often talk about, certainly in this podcast and we talk about in the office, about attachment and the importance of attachment for children going into families, and I'm wondering about how that attachment works with a vulnerable parent who is looking to be to mother but may also need an aspect of mothering themselves.

Laura: 15:12

You're right, and I know certainly in one or two cases in the past where the young mum has been very open and said that she would, you know, if she didn't have that parenting she didn't see that sort of attachment, didn't experience that growing up and therefore you know she would actually view us almost as my husband, myself, as her, as her parents.

Laura: 15:35

So I think a lot of it is modelling behaviour as well. So you are modelling it. I find you know both, even in our relationship, I mean for my husband and myself modelling it towards the baby. We have extended family who pop in to see us and spend time with us, and so I suppose there's that modelling also with our own grandchildren or our sons and daughters-in-law with their children. So I think that at least with, again, that's why that this extended period of time, 24-7, is actually very good, because they can maybe see for some of them it is attachment reality that certainly they had never experienced in their lives before. So you're quite right, that is another aspect or another layer of what goes on in those three months.

Ness: 16:26

When you come to the end of a placement you have to sort of land the new parent gently into their, into their new role.

Laura: 16:35

Yes, and that has happened in a number of ways and obviously when the placement comes to an end, it's officially at an end. Then I officially have no more role in it. But a lot of the mums they have actually requested that I would stay on, stay in touch and we would keep in touch with through WhatsApp and through text and they would phone video calls with questions that they might have, because we built up that trust over the three months with showing me how their children have developed, which gives me the opportunity to affirm what they're doing and maybe to throw in a couple of other suggestions, because obviously a lot of what we do is directed specifically towards the babies at that stage, although we do look ahead and we talk generally about parenting and good parenting skills, but other things like teething comes in later and so I would be someone else to bounce ideas from. I know also each placement can be different and again Ben will be aware that a situation arose in one particular placement where it was felt it would be a very big transition for the young mum to suddenly go. Although I had been backing off, I was still there 24-7 if she had questions to ask or whatever, and therefore it was actually a continued my official role by going one day a week for a month just to be there to see her in her own home and to maybe look at things specifically that I felt she could, that they were pertinent to her own setting as well, and just to make sure that she understood that she still had that support ongoing rather than it just being a very sudden cut to the end of the placement.

Ness: 18:25

Oh, that's great to hear that. Ben, let me bring you in again. What do we look for in a potential parent and child foster care?

Ben: 18:34

Because it is quite specialist. We would certainly be looking for people who have had experience of parenting parenting young sorry, young children and if not parenting, necessarily that they have worked with young children and maybe at a voluntary or professional capacity. So you know, it's when you think about maybe health care or caring professions you know you have maybe nursing, midwifery, health visitor, child care sector and child minders people have worked a lot with with young babies and children and who perhaps maybe looking for a career break or a career change sorry or maybe recently retired and feel that this is something they could do, because we know that that fostering is a big commitment and maybe some people feel that they don't, they want to give something, they don't feel they can offer full-time placements and have an interest in this type of fostering placement and would be able to commit to that, that 12-week period and then obviously have breaks, breaks between their placements, and that can be quite, quite attractive to people who feel they can't do it full-time. Certainly people who have that kind of background I think would be would be ideal.

Ben: 19:53

But you know some will come to this with an interest and maybe not have worked professionally with children but have parented and maybe it's their own children, maybe more recently grandchildren, and that they can draw on that, that experience. I suppose people also have to be fairly confident and have capacity around good record keeping. I mean it's absolutely crucial for all fostering, but even more so for parent and child fostering because, Laura's absolutely right, the foster carer isn't taking responsibility for the assessment as such but is a key component in that assessment and the recording is so that the recording of the, the parent's capacity to you know meet the needs of the child and how they respond to the child, is so crucial in terms of informing the assessment so, you know, those coming into this would need to be fairly, you know, let's say, very confident and have that ability to keep very detailed, accurate records, and so that that's what I think will inform the assessment.

Ness: 20:52

I'm hearing panicking slightly about what that actually might mean, because you might be a really good, you might have great experience with very small babies and you might be keen to learn how to keep accurate notes. I'm just asking is there good, solid training into how you keep those notes and where those notes are kept? Presumably in an online special system?

Ben: 21:16

Absolutely it would form part of our training. But for all foster careers to be honest, you know so anyone who is coming into this process with with the view to doing parent and child fostering, they would complete the core preparation training that that Laura referred to earlier on, and but then we'd be looking at putting additional training and one of one of the key elements of that would be recording record keeping. Yeah, so there'd be lots and lots of support with that. You know you would have your supervisor social worker, who can give feedback in terms of the records that you are keeping, you know, and frameworks to work to as well. I mean, we worked towards the BAAF guidance around the templates and models that they use. But Laura has been incredible really in terms of developing those and, you know, making them much more fit for purpose in terms of accurately, you know, getting the information that we need from the placements and Laura, I think you know, is a big, big plus for us in terms of the recruitment, you know, of any other parent and child care, because she's been doing it quite a while now and has had quite a number of parent and child placements alongside Tom. I can't forget Tom and I've said I've had this conversation with her many times. I'm so keen for her to be part of the recruitment and training of anyone else who would be open and only unable to come on board as a parent and child foster care, because she's done it, she's had the lived experience of this and understands that and really a big part of that training is helping new cares really get a sense of what the reality of that is like. You know Laura's talked quite a bit about it there already just what it's like to have not just a child in your home but a parent, and that's why this is such a specialist piece of work of fostering. It is very, very different to the other more kind of general fostering that we do. So you know people need to be thinking about the impact of that. You know it can be significant enough thinking, oh goodness, we've got a child in our home now who we're learning to get to know, but also a parent, and that parent may come with additional needs as well. You know Laura's some experience of this where maybe the parent has had learning difficulties. You know potentially, you know has had to manage mental health issues in the past, possibly physical disability. So yeah, it's learning all about that.

Ben: 23:47

I mean, there's so much to look at in terms of a training package for parent and child caring. You know you've touched on it as well, just in terms of the importance of attachment, but also how you promote that and how do you help them. You know, build that with the child from the get-go, because it's been important. Those early days, weeks and months are. Other things

Ben: 24:10

again, that we touched on is how to build a relationship with the parent is so, so crucial. You know, Laura has drawn on lots of different resources in terms of, you know, YouTube videos, reading, you know other tools that can really help a parent get the grips with what's really required in terms of making the emotional needs of a child, because, yes, we focus on the physical and the caregiving from that point of view, but just as, or probably more importantly is just can they meet the emotional needs of the wee one. And I suppose I suppose for us and Laura and I have had a conversation about this term many times it's about what's 'good enough' parenting, and that is really the, I suppose, the crux of it, because we have to be realistic in terms of where we will get that parent in 12 weeks.

Ben: 25:08

We're hoping about that learning will continue to develop with the other supports that they will have in place, but ultimately, you know, it's what social services will be looking at as well in terms of their assessment. What is 'good enough'? What do we feel is enough in terms of the level of care and stimulation and all of those things that the parent needs to put in place? That we feel it is safe and appropriate for the child to remain in the parent's care?

Ness: 25:37

That sounds great. I mean, I'm always happy to hear the 'good enough' thrown around, because that's all any of us could be. Is a 'good enough' parent Absolutely. And I suppose there's two things that may be going on with the adult who's coming into the house. There may be anxiety, shame, guilt that they're in the placement in the first place, and there's also the natural anxiety about being a new parent. What new parent isn't anxious about whether they can be good enough? So I suppose it's embracing and being sensitive to those dynamics as they play out when you're working in that alliance. Last thoughts, Laura, do you have any advice for anyone who might be listening to this whose thinking, 'I might like to have a go'?

Laura: 26:24

Well, I would have to say, you know, I have stressed, I've mentioned just, you know, the people need to be prepared for the fact that there will be I mean, it is 24-7 for you know, those twelve weeks and I've you know Ben has also talked about you know just being able to record keeping and all of that. But I would have to say that, and I think it's important that we say those things, but I just get such a sense of personal satisfaction and enjoyment out of doing these that, yes, they are tiring, but I just I can't imagine not doing these placements and I hope I'll be able to continue doing them for a while. I would also say that there are foster carers who work for private agencies, for Trusts in England, Scotland, Wales and so on. I'm speaking from my experience of Barnardo's and Barnardo's specifically in Northern Ireland, and I have to say that they have been really supportive and you know both as we started this journey. But each placement is different and you know different questions arise and it has just been.

Laura: 27:32

I've never, ever felt on my own. I've never felt that at all, because I have a person I was social, supervising, social worker that I can go to we talk through. Okay, right, so this is different in this placement. How are we going to address that social, the supervising social worker is able to speak to the social worker and the Trust they are then able to come to some sort of agreement, whether it is a tweak in, maybe, what we're doing or in the recording, something that would work better, and so I've always felt incredibly well supported. I also would I mean if, if I had both the energy and if I were in a different situation, I would love to be able to do more of these placements.

Laura: 28:14

Ben talked about taking a break between placements, which is absolutely essential. My break is a little bit older as a is a little bit longer as I get older to recover from that, and also the fact that I have my own children and grandchildren, and they do. They're very understanding, but they do know that they you know we don't see just as much of them over the three month period because I am I am literally like a shadow with the mum and the baby for those three months, and so I need to spend time with them as well, but Barnardo's have always been very supportive of that. I think I'm maybe harder on myself feeling that I should be doing more, but it is really good that I have always felt their support.

Laura: 28:58

I've never, ever felt on my own. So I would just say, if you're thinking about it, please get in touch with Barnardo's, speak to to them, ask questions and, as Ben has said, you know, I know that if any parent and child foster care do come on here in Northern Ireland I have already said no, I would really like to be there. So, even if it's just somebody to bounce ideas from, because I've already worn this t-shirt a couple of times, yeah, Well, that seems like a really good note to end on.

Ness: 29:27

I just want to thank you, Laura, for coming and joining us today, and to Ben, and hopefully that's food for thought for someone who might be thinking about this area. Thank you both again. Okay, thanks, Ness. Bye.