How to Start a Career as a Crane Operator in the UK with Tim Milligan

The crane industry can offer exceptional earning potential, yet many people don't realise the opportunities it presents—or how to break into the profession.

Tim Milligan, founder of Lift Tec Academy, shares how a chance move from labouring into lifting operations transformed his career, eventually leading him to build a training academy dedicated to helping others follow the same path.

Speaking with Jimmy Webb, Tim discusses why crane operations remain one of construction's most rewarding career routes, what separates great operators from average ones, and why attitude often matters more than experience when employers are hiring. He also offers practical advice for anyone looking to secure their first role in the industry, explains the differences between crane training in the UK and the US, and reflects on the challenges of building a business from the ground up.

Whether you're considering a career in lifting operations, looking to upskill, or simply interested in the people behind the industry's success stories, this episode of the UK Construction Podcast offers valuable insight into a career that many overlook.

Topics covered:

• Why crane operations can be such a rewarding career
• Tim's journey from labourer to Lift Tec Academy founder
• How to get started as a crane operator
• The mindset employers look for
• Crane training in the UK vs the US
• Building a successful training business
• Supporting students beyond qualification

🌐 Connect with Tim Milligan:
https://www.instagram.com/thecranemanuk https://www.tiktok.com/@thecranemanuk

🌐 Lift Tec Academy website:
https://www.lifttecacademy.co.uk/

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Thank you to our sponsor for this episode, WebMotion Media:

https://web-motion.co.uk/

Special shoutout to our dynamic host Jimmy Webb of Construction Cogs: https://constructioncogs.com

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Transcript

From groundbreaking projects to game changing innovations. The UK construction podcast brings you face to face with the industry's brightest minds and boldest thinkers.

Each episode features candid conversations with construction leaders, architects, engineers, and onsite experts who share their hard won insights and behind the scenes perspectives. We cut through the noise to deliver actionable intelligence on market trends, emerging technologies, and the forces shaping British building.

JIMMY:
Hello, welcome back. You may or may not know that I'm partnered with a crane training school, Lift Tech Academy. I've been trying for a while to pin the founder, Tim, down for an interview.

Now here we are finally getting it done. At the end of the episode, we'll tell you all about our partnership and how you can benefit from it. So you might notice that I'm not in my usual setting.

And you might notice I'm having to hold the mic to my mouth like this. This is because for this episode, I thought where's a better place to talk about lifting operations than up my crane. I'm pretty sure this will be the first ever podcast episode filmed up a tail crane.

So let's hope my signal holds out. And let's hope it all goes well. Let's get to it.

Tim, great to have you on, mate. Thank you, mate.

TIM:
Thank you for having me. Honestly, it feels good to return the favour, actually, because we've snuck onto your channel a few times now, haven't we? And so it's nice to do something back.

JIMMY:
Yeah, no, it's all good. It's all good. It's a pleasure, man.

Yeah, it's good. It's good to have you guys on and collaborate. It's good to collaborate, isn't it?

That's what it's all about. Absolutely. Yeah, all day.

So, Tim, tell us about yourself, mate. Tell us about yourself and your background.

TIM:
Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up in London. And I remember kind of getting to this point where it was sort of like, do I go to university?

I was sort of being pushed towards going to university. And I really didn't want to. I was that kid that was naughty at school, still am now, couldn't behave.

And I remember kind of just somehow finding my way into construction. I don't quite know how it happened, honestly. But I went way back to about probably 22 years old, got my sort of green labourer's card, and just started labouring on a construction site for a carpentry company.

And at first, I liked it because I think back then I was earning about £110 a day, which for a labourer was really good money for labouring. Sort of going rate at the time was sort of like £60, £70. And so I thought I'd done quite well, actually.

When you're 21, 22, that's actually quite good money. But this was around the time the awful Grenfell Tower fire happened. I don't know if you remember that.

It was a horrible thing. I'll never forget those images. And so basically, my job was to carry the doors up the stairs for this carpentry.

And after the Grenfell Tower fire, very quickly, the regulations changed around the fire doors, and it all became, you no longer could sort of like throw in these cheap, awful doors anymore, if you were building a new build flat, which was sort of most of the type of sites I was working on. And it very quickly, you know, became sort of very illustrated that you had to have fire doors very consistently throughout most properties, which is obviously a good thing. However, the guy I was working for at the time, who I won't mention, decided that just because the weight of the doors had tripled didn't mean that I deserved any extra help, or that my requirements should change a door to door as far as he was concerned, despite one weighing sort of 50 kilos and one weighing about 150 kilos, I had to guess.

And so I sort of remember, just this happened, and I was like, this is just awful. This is awful. And occasionally, if I was lucky, the crane team would lift the doors up into place for me, because I often had to carry these darn things up the stairs.

And I sort of got quite curious. I was like, hmm, this is much easier. Putting slings around some doors is a lot easier than carrying them up the stairs one by one.

So I got quite curious, and there was this chap that was a slinger, and he was sort of kind enough to answer a lot of my questions, and I was nosy. I'd ask him sort of how much money he was earning, and he answered, you know, and he was like, I'm on 150 quid a day. And again, this was going back sort of seven or eight years.

And I was like, that's bloody great money. But I was nervous to sort of take the jump. But sort of long story short, I did take the jump, and got my slinger signaller ticket, and never looked back, really.

Never looked back. And look what doors it's opened. I know.

I know. You bastards. I'm done.

I still see fire doors in my sleep, Jimmy. I wake up screaming.

JIMMY:
Yeah, well, I mean, you obviously made the right choice. So, I mean, how much different was that then in the crane industry to what you did before? I bet it's like a drastic difference, isn't it?

TIM:
Yeah, massively. So, I couldn't really believe how much money I was earning, you know, because it felt great. Like, I'd gone from sort of earning minimum wage, and before I got into construction, I used to work in call centres a lot.

I was sort of quite good at sales. But when you're, you know, when you're, how old would I have been? Sort of 18, 19?

No one, you know, can't earn good money as an 18-year-old. Doesn't matter if you're good at sales or not. You know, you sort of just get minimum wage, which, you know, back then was about £7 or £8 an hour.

So, getting into construction actually felt great because the money was significantly better than what I'd been earning before. It's, yeah, you know, it was, it's always tough at the beginning of those things. But, you know, once you, once you put the time in and you learn your trade, you know, things get significantly easier.

JIMMY:
Yeah, yeah. I think it's really interesting, actually, your choice of, your path choice because, so my son's quite similar, not fully similar, but in respects that we didn't, we didn't force him to go to university, but because he was so, he's so bright. I mean, he's grown up now, moved out.

He kind of, we kind of expected that that's what he was going to do. So, we were looking at, so he'd finished school and we're looking at colleges and stuff like that. And he said to me recently, he said he remembered sitting on the stairs when he was at home alone with his head in his hands thinking, I don't want to go to college.

I don't want to go to college. I don't want to go to college. But he kind of went along with it because he thought that's what we expected of him.

And then we just got home and he said, oh, I want to join the army. And that was it. So, he's chosen his path and you've done the same.

So, it's great though. It's great to have your own mind. Yeah.

TIM:
Do you know what I think as well? Like, I think, I think it's such a, parents are all, I mean, I'm not a parent, so like, who am I to talk? But I think parents are always trying to do the right things by their kids, right?

And, you know, my parents want to be in university because that was what their parents told them to do. And, you know, I think there was absolutely a time in society where that was the truth. Like, because it used, the narrative used to be that if you don't go to university, you'll never make good money.

Whereas now, I actually think having a little bit of autonomy, like sole autonomy is really where the good money comes from. You know, I sort of, people are becoming a lot more entrepreneurial these days. There's two groups of people, right?

You've got people that are becoming a lot more entrepreneurial and you've got people that are just willing to do even less than ever, you know? And so, you know, the nice thing about taking chances on things is, I always think it takes, let's say it takes about 10 years, you know, or 10,000 hours to become an absolute expert in something. You get multiple attempts at becoming an expert in things.

You know, like if you think, you know, the most important job in the world is, you know, scientists curing cancer, for example, right? And, you know, let's say it takes 10,000 hours and 10 years to become an absolute expert in that. Well, between the ages of 20 and 60, you've got four sets of 10 years.

You've got four attempts to become the best of the best of the best at something. And that's how I like to see things, you know? It just helps you take that initial step.

JIMMY:
Yeah, I agree with that. And also, I think like the school system, the education system really tries to fit you into a box and you can't think outside the box. There's lots of you must do this.

You must do as you're told and be good. And I don't think life is all about it. I think, you know, I don't think you should really be good.

Sometimes you have to do things that are not sort of in the norm to get where you want to go and think outside the box and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, for not being a parent, you're giving great parent advice there. I love it.

TIM:
Oh, good. I try. Well, maybe one day if I'm blessed enough.

JIMMY:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Let's get back to the cranes.

How long were you in the crane industry then before you decided to start Lift Tech Academy?

TIM:
So the math never quite adds up when I say about 10 years, but I always think it's about 10 years, but I suppose it's probably closer to seven-ish years before I started Lift Tech. And what made you make that decision? This is such an easy answer, right?

So like I said, I started as a slinger and I remember feeling like I was sort of significantly out earning most of my peers I went to school with. I remember, you know, so I was probably earning sort of £180, £200 a day by the end of the first year. And then as I sort of climbed through the ranks, did my crane supervisor tickets and things like that and was supervising bigger jobs, you know, I sort of remember I got to this point where I was probably working and this isn't typical for everyone.

I always be careful what I say, but like I was probably working sort of like 20 to 25 hours a week and earning sort of a grand a week, which for the hours I was doing just, you know, and for where I was in my life at the time felt absolutely phenomenal. And I remember kind of thinking like this is such a great career path to go down. And I always would, I'd always think that you don't, if you're not in the trades, if you're not on site, if you're not working around these cranes, you have no idea that this role exists.

And so I started it because I was like, well, if, you know, if all you've got to do is spend, you know, give me a slinger tickets about £1,000 or, you know, £1,500, whatever, depending on where you go, depending how long your course is. You know, if all you've got to do is spend 1,500 quid, you can earn a thousand pounds a week pretty much off the bat. You can, if you're sensible and you've got your head screwed on.

I was like, that's fantastic. Why go to university? Why bother?

And so it really started from just wanting to get people into that industry.

JIMMY:
Okay. Okay, cool. Yeah.

It's a brave move. Very brave move.

TIM:
You know, when you're stupid today, what bravery is luckily, you don't know what you don't know. So yeah, ignorance is bliss, you know?

JIMMY:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I like the story.

I mean, you've told me before we've had conversations, how tough it was at the beginning. It always is when you start in the business, you know, sleeping in the office and almost living there. How difficult did it get and what kept you going?

TIM:
Do you know what? I'm a weird type of person, right? So like, I love the pain.

I like it because I see it as like, I'm like, do you know what? I'm so glad it hurts. I'm glad this sucks because poor everybody else that wants to try and do the same thing.

Yeah. You know? So like, I don't know.

You've got to love the pain in a weird way. So I don't know. When I was sleeping, I literally was sleeping on the office floor on an air bed.

The funny thing is, I still sometimes do that now just out of convenience. Like if I'm, you know, I come in London next week, I live outside London now, but if I'm in London, we still have our office. Sometimes I still sleep on an air bed.

I don't mind. I call it camping, right? Yeah.

And I quite like it because I've got my coffee machine. I've got my air fryer and it just feels highly optimal. So I'm weird.

I don't mind it. So it actually isn't that painful. But to the normal person, yeah, it probably wouldn't be the best.

JIMMY:
But yeah. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, the thing is, if you haven't got that real passion and that energy in your purpose and what you're doing, then it is going to be difficult and it's probably going to put you off, isn't it?

So what you're doing then is enjoying the process and really fulfilling that passion. It makes it a bit easier, doesn't it? Yeah.

It gives you that real purpose and that drive to push on through and know that something is going to come good at the end of it.

TIM:
Yeah, absolutely. I remember when I was young, I wanted to start a business because I wanted to make lots of money. I tried that and it didn't get anywhere.

It just failed time and time again. Because the truth is, the way you succeed in business is you have to make other people money first. And it wasn't until I became mission driven and sort of became married to the idea of actually genuinely trying to help other people that we actually started sort of getting some success.

And by no means are we killing it at all. You know, we're still a very small company now. You know, there's literally two of us sometimes, depending on how busy we are.

But, you know, I think when you stop trying to, I don't know, when you genuinely care about the outcome of the people that come through your academy, that's when you start really getting good results. Because nothing makes me happier than hearing somebody who's just done their crane operator course and landed a job a couple of weeks later. You know, I'll never forget one guy, Elliot, who was sort of one of the first students we ever had.

And he just absolutely loved it. And he nailed it. He smashed the course.

One of the trainers said they'd never seen anyone with such a nice touch on the crane. It was nuts because he'd never operated a crane before. And he got like a year long contract, like almost off the bat, which is pretty unheard of, honestly, for newly trained crane operators.

But, you know, and I just I love that to this day. I still think this was years ago, but I still think about it now. And he's still up there.

He still sends me pictures of him up on his crane. A bit like you.

JIMMY:
Yeah, I mean, I do see that you care. I really do. I mean, I've seen you on the phone with people.

And I know that some companies will just sell something and that's it. They don't care about the people. But I know you say to me sometimes, oh, do you mind if this person calls you, Jim, for a bit of advice?

And he's a bit nervous about getting on site. And he sat me over and I said, no problem. So it just shows that you actually care about the people and that you're excited when I do get a job.

TIM:
Mate, absolutely. And thank you to you, you know, for doing that, because, yeah, you know, it's I think a lot of the people that really want to make it happen, I was sort of getting a bit ahead of ourselves on this topic, but the people that really want to make it happen, you know, I will bend over backwards for them because I just for me, it speaks to a bigger purpose. You know, it just speaks to the roots of like, as a society, we need to be skilled, we need to have a way of earning money, we need to, you know, as a man, you know, because it's predominantly men that come through our academy.

And you'll attest to this, you know, to a man, the way you earn money and feed your family is it's kind of your job, isn't it? It's what you're supposed to do. It's kind of the bare minimum.

If you're not supporting your family and taking care of your children and, you know, and paying the bills and get not to get sort of like, you know, I know, women do that too kind of thing. But I think in a sort of more traditional sense, you know, it's the man's job to do that in many, many ways. And it's become so hard for people to do that now.

Because, you know, wages are down. And I just, you know, government don't make it easy to earn money. And, you know, taxes are insane.

And you know what I mean?

JIMMY:
Yeah, absolutely. I do. I do.

It is difficult. It is difficult. I mean, it's even difficult for me to make a good living out of it with all the bloody cost of living that's going up and everything.

Let's talk about the course categories you provide. What categories do you provide?

TIM:
So we do pretty much everything crane related. We do all plant training ultimately. We're sort of, I think we're known for our crane operator courses.

I mean, so that we do, we do excavators, telehandlers, all that stuff. But on the crane side of things, we do, you know, slinger signal courses and tower crane courses are the most common ones. But we, you know, we do all cranes, do excavators, crawler cranes, mobile cranes, spider cranes, we do crane supervisor, pointed person.

Yes, we do literally everything. But I think we're best known for our tower crane courses really, because there's not a lot of people that offer that.

JIMMY:
Yeah. I was going to say, is that what sells the most?

TIM:
Tower cranes, yeah? I would say so. One of the questions that we get a lot is, you know, if we get someone that's brand new, they often say like, you know, where is the best place to start?

You know, is it the slinger signaler or is it the crane operator course? To which I will normally say to someone, well, that's a good, there's two ways of answering that. What's the end goal?

And they normally say, well, I want to be a crane operator. To which I normally say, okay, well, if you've got the time and the money for it, I would do both courses together. Because, you know, if you start with your slinger ticket, sorry, it's a little bit easier to get on site.

You get on site fast with your slinger ticket. But at the same time, if you've also got your crane operator ticket in the back pocket, you know, I mean, how often do crane operators not bloody show up, right? You guys are notorious for it.

So, you know, so if you're on site, you're inducted, you've got a supervisor, you're the slinger, your operator doesn't turn up, but you've got a ticket and you're familiar with the site, well, you can pretty much go up, I'll take it, I'll get up there, you know. And that can be quite a good way for people to get in. And especially if you already know your lifting team as well.

So that's kind of like the ideal way, but it's expensive, you know, because you're looking at best part of five grand's worth of training at that point. So it sort of depends. That's kind of the best way in, ultimately.

JIMMY:
That's an interesting point, actually. We'll touch on this later as well, because I personally think that all crane training should incorporate both anyway. I mean, I do think, ideally, I do think you should be a slinger first, so you get to know how crane works and all that sort of stuff, how lifting works before you start operating dangerous machinery.

But it's not mandatory in this country. It kind of is in America, which we'll touch on a bit later. But yeah, so yeah, I kind of think they should, on both sides as well, if you're doing a slinger course, I think you should do a bit of tower crane operating as well, just to get a feel for both.

TIM:
100%. I wish that, honestly, if it was up to me, tower crane courses, slinger courses would be about 30 days long, you know. But the problem is, it's like, the way it works in the UK, it's completely irrational the way the training works, you know.

It's, I think, apprenticeship better, ultimately, if those exist. They don't really exist for lifting. We get asked that all the time.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think you can really do that anymore. Yeah, well, I did an apprenticeship. You did, didn't you, back in the day?

JIMMY:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, they stopped doing the crane apprenticeships, but they still do slinger apprenticeships, but it's very, very rare. You don't really often hear of it.

You're right. And I mean, you're right, people want a quick fix, don't they? They want to get qualified quickly.

They don't want to be spending 30 days training to do something. And not only that, when you're spending 30 days training, you're not earning. So it's kind of, you know, it's kind of a double-edged sword.

But I do think, yeah, the training should be longer, definitely.

TIM:
Yeah.

JIMMY:
Um, you've moved on to CSCS cards as well now, right?

TIM:
Yes, we do a lot of CSCS cards. Yes, the green ones.

JIMMY:
Yeah. How's that going?

TIM:
It's good. So, you know, I think there's so many ways to address this. To answer your question, yeah, it's going great.

I suppose your bigger question is like, what is sort of the best way for someone to sort of like, where should someone start, right? Is that kind of what you're asking me?

JIMMY:
Well, not really. I've noticed quite a new thing that you've taken on. I just wondered how it's going, how it's taken on.

Are people getting involved? Are people enjoying it? Is it a success?

TIM:
Yeah. So I think, right, if you're going to get your green CSCS card, it's a really good place to start. I mean, it's where I started.

You want to use that as a bit of a stepping stone, but you don't want to stay there too long, because you can't do much on your green CSCS card, really. You're not supposed to do anything skilled there. You know, so it's great.

You know, it's good if you're, you know, just getting the basics of site work and things like that. I think it's a really good place to start there. But, you know, you want, I think you want to try and get onto a trade, a proper trade as quickly as you can, really, you know, whatever it is, carpentry, plumbing, cranes, you know.

I can't think of any other ones out there, you know. You don't want to stay there too long, because, you know, there's better money to be earned on site, not just cranes, but in many, many domains. Yeah.

JIMMY:
I mean, it's kind of just, it's your way in, isn't it? It's your way in the door, really.

TIM:
Mm.

JIMMY:
100%. Yeah. I think it's, I forgot to mention it, I think it's important to note that your training is one-to-one or two-to-one rather than in groups.

Yeah. So you can really focus on people's needs that way, can't you?

TIM:
Yeah. So we have two courses on the crane operator training that we run. So we offer one that is set up one-to-one.

That's our London location. We also have another location near to the Midlands, and we do that two-to-one. Do you know what?

It's kind of funny. So people are kind of split down the middle. Some people just don't want to be one-on-one, because I think they're a bit nervous about sort of just being one-on-one.

And I think a lot of people get a lot of benefit from having somebody else sort of there with them, learning at the same time. And then the other 50% of people genuinely love the one-to-one. So I think sometimes watching somebody else learn the same thing that you're trying to learn can be quite powerful, you know, because you almost get like a third perspective.

If someone is trying to teach you something, you know, you sort of feel this pressure to understand them quite quickly. Whereas if you're watching someone else be taught something new, you can kind of sit back and go, ah, okay. Do you know what I mean?

So I think there's places for both of them, really. But yeah, that's, you know, what we try and do. So we do like a five-day training programme, or, you know, we do also have a 10-day one, which we do sort of in bigger groups.

But we tend to find, you know, people prefer that sort of more intensive tuition kind of thing, because you can go at your own pace. But now a quick word from our sponsor, Webmotion Media. Are you ready to transform your online presence?

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JIMMY:
Yeah, I do know what you mean, actually, regarding two people. I think also when there's like a couple of people that you think they can give feedback to each other as well, you can sort of feed off each other a bit more support as well, maybe. You know when you're nervous and you think, oh my god, and then they're in it with me kind of thing, you know what I mean?

Yeah, but also one-to-one. I mean, two-to-one at the end of the day, I think is probably better than a big group, personally. Even if it's two-to-one or one-to-one, a big group, you've got all that waiting around, you know, they might not be able to give you all the attention that you need. So, yeah, I think you're doing it the right way, personally.

Not that my opinion matters to anything.

TIM:
No, it does. It does matter. A lot of, I think a lot of, so, you know, a lot of people find our YouTube channel through your YouTube channel, and I think vice versa, because you sort of push us and we sort of push you as well.

So your opinion very much matters, actually, I think. And I'd say a lot of people that come through our academy normally quote or have mentioned that they have sort of also seen your content. So, I would like to appreciate your opinion.

JIMMY:
I'm hoping I'm putting the right information out there then, Jesus.

TIM:
Who knows? Who knows? No, people have, I would say you're definitely putting some good good information out there into the world.

Yeah, nice one.

JIMMY:
Nice one. I do try. I do try.

What do you think separates good crane training from poor crane training then?

TIM:
So, that's a really good question. I don't think I have a proper answer. So, I think you need to be taught by people that have previously been operators, first of all.

Because, you know, the actual, what I always think, right, when someone's getting trained to become an operator, the actual mechanics of operating a crane, pulling a lever, listening for clicks, you know, whatever it is, it's not that difficult. And you may disagree with me here, but, you know, I really think the best operators have a sort of sixth sense for what's going on on the ground. And it is a bit of a sixth sense because you can't really see what's going on unless you're in a small crane or you're lifting on the roof.

And so, you know, sometimes, you know, the best operator will do something like, let's say your slingers on the radio and they're saying something like, hoist up. And, you know, they're working in a really confined space. And then the radio cuts out.

I mean, it's obviously sort of written into code that if you can't hear your slinger, you need to stop anyway. But the different, like, if you know that something's not quite right because you can't hear your slinger, or you sort of sense that you need to get on the radio and go, oh, Jim, do you want me to still coming up? Do you want me to still keep coming up?

You know, versus just making those assumptions. That can be the difference between someone getting crushed between a load and a wall and, you know, that not happening. And that really is, you know, I think an example of the difference between what is really an important skill as an operator and not.

And that's very hard to teach, especially when you're new and you have the pressure of, you know, people saying like, oh, you know, be quick, you know, work fast, you know. Yeah, you don't always know. And you also don't want to sound like you don't know what you're doing.

But maybe I haven't explained this very well. But, you know, just having the time and the patience just go like, I'm not 100% sure on that. Let me get on the radio and just double check, or if I can't hear the slinger speaking, you know, stop what I'm doing, you know, that kind of thing.

JIMMY:
Yeah, that's right. So, yeah, so a person who has been an operator would be able to input those learnings onto a student definitely rather than 100%. Yeah, that is an interesting one.

Because like you say, the actual operator isn't that difficult, but it's everything else that goes with it, all the regulations, and you've got to know what everyone else is doing, and are they doing that properly, and all the noise, and all the busyness, and all the rest.

TIM:
That's it. And I'm not slagging off the operator saying it's not difficult, because of course, it is difficult. But, you know, it's a bit like learning to drive a car, isn't it?

Once you kind of understand the mechanics of like looking both ways before you pull out, it kind of makes sense. But what not everyone has is that sixth sense of kind of just double checking and being cautious, you know, it's, I guess it's a bit like defensive driving, you know, it's like defensive crane operating. And, you know, you just sort of need to just take that second to think if what you're doing makes sense, you know, because, I mean, the UK's got some of the best health and safety standards in the world.

I mean, I spend a lot of time in America. And, you know, looking at their crane systems, and they're just not anywhere near us, honestly, they're just they're not at the same standard at all.

JIMMY:
And, you know, so it's, it's just actually, yeah, I have not that I'm slagging off the American do anything, but I have noticed that they can be a little bit more slapdash in the way they do things. And it's quite surprising, really, it's good. It's good time to get on that, actually, America, because you spent a lot of time out there, haven't you?

And you and you was providing training out there as well, when you're still doing that.

TIM:
So we actually never started, we sort of we've, it's something we've been looking at for a while, because we kind of see a bit of an opportunity to bring the British standards of crane operator training out there. It's quite complex, because they've got a union system, you sort of have to go through the unions, you know, it's hard to sort of explain the there's not really a parallel over here. Yes, it is absolutely something we're looking at, they've got a slightly different system, right, where like, part of the difficulty with it is it's like completely different how it works.

So like, if you want to become a tower crane operator in America, you're going to start out as something called an oiler. Now the oiler basically is someone with a heavy goods vehicle or commercial driver's licence. They're going to drive a mobile crane to the site, they're going to set that crane up for the mobile crane operator.

And then, then that's kind of them done. And then the operator is actually going to come along and then operate that mobile crane. And then as an oiler, if you're lucky, you do that for a little bit, then you get your seat in the mobile crane.

Once you've operated that mobile crane for a bit, then you can look at sort of doing the towers, which is kind of weird, right? Like there's obviously major crossover between a mobile crane and a tower crane, like there's obviously lots of crossover, but there's also lots of differences too, right? And so it's just sort of complex.

It's not as straightforward here where you kind of just choose the machine you want to go on and you sort of just go for it over here. Do you know what I mean?

JIMMY:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also, in some states, it's sort of mandatory to become a rigger first, as well as networking, obviously, our version of a slinger.

TIM:
It's not that it's mandatory as far as I say, all states are different. I don't necessarily think it's mandatory. It's just sort of a slightly different system.

You've got more of a sort of grandfathering in sort of approach to it. But I mean, having said that all states are different, you know, like New York, you need two different licences, for example, to operate cranes that, you know, some states you don't need official certification. So, you know, there's massive discrepancies.

JIMMY:
Yeah, that's another point I was going to touch on as well, actually, that makes them a lot more complicated, but all the states can be very different, so I suppose. I mean, how would you go about doing that, setting up a school there? Would it be a national thing or would you just be located in one state and just focus on that state or what?

TIM:
So, I suppose it's mostly where the demand is. So, Nashville, where I was based for a long time, it's sort of nicknamed Crane City, because it's a very popular place, there's a lot of people moving there. So, you know, over, I've been there sort of on and off about seven years.

And buildings just pop up, like every time I come back to the UK and go back again, it could be like three or six months in between. And I'm like, oh, my view's gone for my apartment. It's gone now.

So, you know, we just sort of go with it where it's busy, really, you know, that's the thing.

JIMMY:
Yeah, sure, sure. Speaking of locations, what are your locations here? Where do you have training centres in the UK?

TIM:
Yeah, so we've got one in London on the outskirts, sort of towards Essex. We've got another one in Norfolk, which is sort of our, we call it our Midlands location, which has got sort of accommodation and transport included as well. So if you go to that one, put you in a hotel, and you get picked up and dropped off by a shuttle service.

And the idea behind that is we sort of have people coming from all over. You know, many people don't, aren't anywhere nearby, you know, it's quite remote. So we wanted to sort of like one stop shop for people that just wanted to, you know, come from wherever, like we had a couple of people come over from Ireland, for example, you know, we had to fly in.

You know, so we just wanted something where like that, you know, they didn't need to stress about that. And that's the, we don't charge extra for that. It's the same price, whether you do London and get yourself there, or you come to our Norfolk location, it's all the same price.

And we're looking at starting a new one in Scotland as well. We're not too sure where it's going to be. There's a couple of sort of, it's a case of getting land and cranes and stuff, obviously for the training, but we're sort of looking at doing something up there potentially as well.

So you want to cover the whole of the UK, pretty much? Pretty much. Yeah, we want, we want to be the like the go to people for it, you know, because people always talk about like, like Ritchies back in the day, there was a company that used to do it up in Scotland, and they've sort of decided to go down the heavy goods vehicle training route instead now.

And, you know, so I just think it's, there's just a great market for, you know, training good crane operators, there needs to be a place that people can come and do that. I'd be very proud if it could be us, you know?

JIMMY:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I like the accommodation aspect as well, that you don't get many crane companies to provide that free transport accommodation.

TIM:
Yeah, you know, it's, it's, we, you don't, you don't want to be like stressing out and, you know, you've got so much to learn when you're on the crane operator course, there's so much to take on, you want to be, you know, you want to be at peace, you want to be rested. So we make sure all our hotels have desks in there and things like that and space for revision. And, you know, so those are kind of some of the things, and it's actually really nice in an orphan location, because it's like in the middle of a big field, so it's quite peaceful.

JIMMY:
Yeah, I do love Norfolk, I've been up there quite a lot. Yeah, it's lovely. Yeah, I actually trained up there, Birch and Newton sort of area, so yeah.

TIM:
Yes, they're not, yeah, it's not far actually. It's funny how, like, you know, they're so close. But yeah, yeah, it's not far.

JIMMY:
Yeah. And I mean, I mean, crane courses are not cheap, are they? Do you provide finance options for people to spread the cost?

Such a good question. So no, we don't.

TIM:
I know a number of students have managed to get sort of financing from, I say a number, a very small number, less than, probably less than, like, 5% of people that have ever come through the academy. But, you know, some people, you know, it tends to be people that are, like, ex-services, like ex-army. The army will often pay for people to retrain.

People, yeah. So we get asked quite often if people are sort of receiving, like, jobseeker's allowance, if the job centre will pay for it. Once or twice, the job centres actually have covered people's courses.

But nine times, probably 90 times out of 100, it's a no. I was going to say it's nine out of 10, isn't it? You can see I didn't do very well at school.

95 times out of 100. Yeah, that's why I didn't go to school. 95 times out of 100, people are going to pay for it themselves most of the time, you know.

But it's an investment. The other thing I find with that is actually the people that have to cop up the painful feed themselves do better. Those that pay the most pay the most attention.

It's something I've generally found.

JIMMY:
So, yeah, I agree with that. Definitely agree with that. I actually spoke, I think it was, is it Gareth?

I think his name's Gareth. I spoke to a guy that had it funded.

TIM:
Yes, he was quite reasonable. He did actually have it funded. I can't quite remember how he did that.

He, I think he was sort of part of a special programme. There's a certain like, there's a, there was Tata Steel was a big steel manufacturer. I think it might have been through that, where when they closed down the steel manufacturer, thousands of people were without jobs.

So the government created a fund for people to retrain. So it was sort of like government funded, but like, it wasn't just available to anyone. It was, it was quite specific that he had previously, I think previously maybe worked for this company.

I might be confusing with someone else. So I'm possibly talking absolute nonsense.

JIMMY:
No, I think you could be right. I think you could be right, but it's given him a step in the door, which is great. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. But you don't just train people, do you? You help people find work after once they've passed.

Is that right?

TIM:
Yeah, absolutely. It certainly is.

JIMMY:
How does that work?

TIM:
So we run an employment bootcamp programme or employment support programme. It's basically an additional day to the course. And the idea behind that is I, very simply, I basically recaptured everything I had learned in my time working in the crane industry that I did to get jobs.

And I sort of put it in this format where it could be taught to people because the real secret to getting into work, right? Here's the real secret. It is making a shit tonne of phone calls to recruiters when you're brand new.

There's no, you know, some, okay, some people have an uncle that might own a crane company, fine, whatever you might, whatever it is. But the real secret is sitting down and call, I say, if you're serious about it, make a hundred calls a day for a hundred days. That's the kind of violent effort I want to see our students take after their courses, you know?

And I, generally speaking, if someone comes to me after the course, like, oh, I'm struggling to get a job, I go, what have you done? Show me what you've physically done. Because one of the things that we teach in that is, you know, it's not just about sitting down and kind of going on Google and making a few calls.

We teach you to build a database of agencies because you spend most of your time trying to find different companies. So we give you about a hundred recruitment agencies that we've sort of put onto a database for you. And we also show you how to find new ones as well that are maybe less contacted.

You know, but if you come to me and you say, oh, I'm struggling, I'm going to say, no problem at all. Show me what you've done. And if you can't show me a hundred names, a hundred companies on a spreadsheet with your notes of the phone calls that you've made and the dates that you've called them, I'll go and do that.

And if that doesn't work, because it will work, but if it doesn't work, then I will sit down with you and I'll make phone calls on your behalf. But until you show me that, I'm not interested. You know, so that is what you need to be willing to do.

And people are like, oh, that's tough. It's like, well, that's what getting a job, a good job looks like. It's, you've got to take, it takes time, it takes effort, and you've got to do that.

You know, so it's like, if you want something that pays well, if you want something that's an exciting career, prepare to work hard.

JIMMY:
Yeah, that is the brutal truth of it, at the end of the day. You know, I get people speak to me about it and I say to them, same thing really, and I say to them, I use my wife as an example, she's an absolute pest. When she wants something, she is an absolute pest and she will not stop until she gets it.

TIM:
And that's why I say to them- Pest is the most perfect word. You have to pest the people. You really do.

You have to not take no for an answer, you know.

JIMMY:
Being people's heads, being people's minds. And to the point when I say, oh, for fuck's sake, let's just shut this guy up, give him a chance, see what he's like, you know what I mean?

TIM:
That's exactly, so what I, the real kind of key, right, is what I think you need to do is you have to call the same people a lot. And what you want to do is you kind of want to come across as a young buck and you kind of want, you want to make people like you, first of all. So you want to be super polite, right?

And we get this all day long at the academy. People call us up and they either ask us for crane operator jobs or they ask, you know, if we're hiring and things like that. And I'll get people that call me up on the phone and they'll go, hi, have you got any jobs?

And I just go like, who the hell are you? Sorry, who are you? I find that so rude, right?

And I say, well, who are you? What kind of job are you after? You know, like where are you from?

I mean, I don't normally bother asking that because I'm like, well, you've clearly got no skill at all, like, you know, and zero personality. I don't, you know, we're not really interested in it. So, you know, what you need to do, if you want, the thing that you do if you want a job, you call up and you go, oh, good afternoon.

My name's Timothy. I'm a crane operator. And I've done a bit of research into your company.

And I see that you guys are like, you're really good at what you do. Like I was on your website and I just saw you, you've been on that big Hinkley Point job. Amazing, congratulations on winning that.

I know that was a really hard contract to get, right? Like, how did you get that? I know everyone wanted that.

That's what, that's kind of how I would go in there first. It depends a little bit on who you're speaking to. But I'd go into something like that and they'd probably be like, oh, yeah, you know, we just, we've always done good work.

And you go, absolutely. Well, that's kind of what I thought. And if you don't mind, that's kind of why I wanted to reach out to you.

So I'm recently qualified. I've got my crane operator licence. And, you know, I'm just trying to get my foot in the door.

Is there like any chance I could maybe sort of like leave my details with you in case you have some work come up? I know, I know you're probably already spoken for and quite busy, but, you know, I know also jobs come up every now and then that are sort of in the back end of the country that people don't really want to go to. I'll go to those.

I will go anywhere you want. So with that in mind, could I leave you my details? And then I'll normally go, yeah, of course, no problem at all.

And then the last thing you say to them is, oh, amazing. Well, thank you so much. Again, my name's Tim.

If you don't mind, I know the kind of key to being successful in this is staying in front of mind. So if it's all right with you, I'll probably like touch base with you like Mondays and Fridays just to pester you into staying in front of mind if that's okay. And then normally go, yeah, yeah, no worries at all.

That's the first thing that you've got to do. And then you've actually got to call them every Monday and every Friday or, you know, every Monday and Thursday, and you've genuinely got to stay front of mind. And if you do that long enough and you do it politely and you do it in an endearing way, you don't just call up and go, oh, you're going to jobs, mate, which is what everyone does.

And nothing winds me up more than that. If we did, they're not for you, fucking redneck. That's just where you need to come from.

And that's just anything in life. It's like going up to a girl and trying to get a date, like, all right, love, want a drink? Yeah.

JIMMY:
But I think it goes further than that as well. So I say to people when they do call me, I say, look, let's say you do get a couple of days or a couple of weeks here and there, you've got to shine. You've got to be the best operator you can be.

You've got to have a good attitude. Be punctual for a start. Don't be late because they hate that.

Don't be moaning. Don't be moaning about overtime. Obviously, don't let them take the mick out of you.

But just give a really, really good impression because the crane industry is quite a small industry. So if you're good, they will remember you and they will want you on the next job. And they'll talk about you to other sites, say you want to get this guy on your job.

That's, you know, that's where you get the work. That's how you get the reputation.

TIM:
Yeah, completely. A really useful thing that I think would help most people get into work, right, is to understand this. So when you're new to a job site as a crane operator, I mean, this applies to slingers, supervisors, operators, whatever, like, I'm not going to pretend there's not a benefit to working fast and efficiently, obviously safely, but like, of course there is.

But most people that fail on site or get thrown off jobs or don't last or get sacked, I very rarely find it's because they're not fast enough or, you know, or competent enough. Nine times out of 10, 90 out of 100, I find it's because they're just shitty. Like, they have shitty attitudes.

And the nice thing about understanding that is you don't need experience to have a good attitude about something. So it's like, once you kind of understand that to be successful in this, you just need to be really personable and polite and have a really good attitude, and those are just decisions that you can make to be that way, those things will massively outshine how quick you are on the cranes, how, you know, how competent you are. Your attitude is 90% of your success in that.

And that is just a decision. You can just arrive on site and make the decision to just not argue with people, just be really personable, go and introduce yourself, go and be friendly. That's what will actually get you places.

And again, it's the same in so many things.

JIMMY:
But if you are personable and you are likeable and you are respected, then if you do make mistakes, which could be likely as a newbie, then they're more likely to forgive you, they're more likely to help you, and they're more likely to mentor you than have a go at you. So yeah, definitely. That is the mantra I stick by.

You know, treat everybody the same anyway, whether it's a cleaner or a director, be polite, be kind.

TIM:
Of course. There's a wonderful story of, what was it? It was like when they were trying to go to the moon in America, like back in like, what was it?

Like the 1960s. And I think it was like the then president, I don't know which president it was at the time, but he went to go visit NASA. And he was sort of like walking around, being toured around the building, and he spoke to somebody.

And I think that the guy was like the janitor, he was just cleaning. And the president said to him, he's like, oh, what do you do here? And the janitor said, sir, I'm helping put a man on the moon.

And I just thought, you know, it's kind of a well-known story. I've completely butchered it, but it's a really cool little thing. It's like everyone plays their little part, you know, in that picture.

JIMMY:
Yeah. I mean, that's why I created Construction Cogs, because everybody is a cog in the construction machine. We all play our parts.

You know, we can't do it about every single person that's in there. So yeah, I agree with that. We're almost done, mate.

In fact, we're nearly done. Looking back at where you started, what are you most proud of?

TIM:
Do you know what? I feel like I should manufacture an answer for that. I don't really, I'm not really proud of anything, is the truth.

Okay. Yeah. I'm like 1% of the way of where I want to be.

So I feel like I'm just getting started with stuff. I'm not really proud of anything yet. Yeah, I know that's not the answer you expected.

JIMMY:
No, I get that. No, I get that. Funnily enough, I had someone, I interviewed someone the other day, and they, because I always close with guests asking me a question, and they kind of said, you know, what's made you get to where you want to be now?

And I'm like, well, you know, I'm not where I want to be. You know, there's a long way to go yet. You know, there's a long way to go.

It's this journey. Yeah.

TIM:
So yeah, I think the truth would be I am disgusted with how far behind I am in line with my goals. So I'm not proud at all. I'm disgusted with myself.

JIMMY:
But you're in it for the long game. Yeah. Of course.

Of course. Yeah. Yeah.

That's it. That's it. But I mean, I've said to you before, you've done very well, mate.

You've done very well for yourself. And I think you're going to go, you're going to be great in the future. I really do.

TIM:
Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you.

JIMMY:
We're going to close on some nonsense questions. Actually, we have a question for me at the end, but we're going to shine. I've just it's not many.

It's just a little bit of fun. So not some questions, but some quick five questions. So first one, blues or country music?

TIM:
Country music. One hundred percent.

JIMMY:
Really? OK. OK.

TIM:
I lived in Nashville for seven years.

JIMMY:
Yeah. I was kind of expecting that. I'm more of a blues man.

I do like country, but I'm more of a blues man.

TIM:
This is great. It's I'll shut up. I'll let you talk.

No, no, it's fine.

JIMMY:
It's fine. I mean, you've got you've got that American culture in you, haven't you? So you went to a concert the other day.

What was that concert? You said you was going to a concert or are you going to one?

TIM:
Was it? I went to a I went to a country music festival in Wales. Oh, OK.

It was awful. It was terrible. Yeah.

Someone wrote a newspaper article. I saw a newspaper article the next day and it was like, oh, I can't remember. It was like a Shania Twain Shania Twain tribute act, which was just awful.

Oh, my goodness. The whole thing was terrible. People wanted refunds.

Yeah, it was awful. So I'm a little spoiled after living in Nashville. We used to have like free country music shows from like the best of the best.

Yeah. Can you tell us? No, I started learning a bit of two step.

It's no joke, man. Two step. You can win.

You can win a good woman if you can two step out there.

JIMMY:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can imagine.

TIM:
It's no joke, honestly. There are some, man, when you see a couple that can two step, it is like the sexiest thing ever. It's amazing.

I know it's kind of like a joke over here, like the like, because it's like the line dancing if you're 90 years old. But like proper two stepping is amazing.

JIMMY:
Well, next time I see you, then I want you to show me the two step, yeah? I know the two steps. There's only two steps, right?

Well, yeah, yeah. Right, so if you had to swap jobs for a week with anyone on site, who would you choose?

TIM:
With anyone on site?

JIMMY:
Yes.

TIM:
I mean, it's kind of a boring answer, but I suppose it would probably be like the client.

JIMMY:
Okay, yeah.

TIM:
Because like it's just the obvious most sort of like the position with the most authority and ability to make changes and to like to look, I just think it's the position where you would benefit the most from. You learn the most things, you would get an insight that you wouldn't normally get. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's a good answer, actually. I didn't expect that.

Good answer. Yeah. So by, I mean, you know, the client paying for the whole bloody thing you're working on.

JIMMY:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. What's one thing Americans do better than us?

TIM:
Oh, man. So America has this sense of pride, patriotism and self-belief that I hate to say. I just don't, I don't see radiated as powerfully in the UK.

We are such an amazing country, one of the oldest countries in the world. And, you know, I just think that the British mentality is to sort of just kind of stay in your lane and be polite. Being polite is great, don't get me wrong.

But like, Americans just have this hardcore self-belief that if we just could replicate in this country, we would, we'd be on Mars by now.

JIMMY:
Yeah, yeah. They're very passionate in whatever it is that they do.

TIM:
They just believe in themselves. They just have a self-worth and self-belief that we just don't really have a lot in this country. And it breaks my heart because we've got some of the, you know, the best sort of working people here.

You know, we've got some of the most educated people in the world here. You know, our country's been around for thousands of years. You know, we, we know what we're doing.

Yeah.

JIMMY:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Do you wish you was American?

TIM:
Yes, I kind of do. So I, I do. So that's kind of a funny question.

The only reason I don't is because being British in American, in America, kind of, you kind of get treated really nicely. You get kind of like lumped in with like the royal family. People think you're like, it was asked, like, I was asked, oh, do you know the king?

Do you know the queen? Half the time, I had to be like, well, unfortunately, the queen passed away quite some time ago now. They don't always know that.

But so, so yes, I do. But I kind of don't just because I kind of get treated really nicely for being British. There's like a special relationship between the British and the Americans.

Yeah. Yeah.

JIMMY:
It's a real thing. It is. It is a real thing.

Yeah. I've said, I've seen it. I am.

I'm on some, I'm on a couple of crane related forums now on Reddit. And that, that is, that is where we do see that, that mutual respect between both nations. Right.

Last question. Is there anything you'd like to ask me?

TIM:
Yeah. I have a question for you, Jimmy. Do you have any interest in getting into the training side of things?

JIMMY:
Crane training.

TIM:
Crane training.

JIMMY:
I've thought about this, you know, I have thought about this. Probably, probably not because I'm on a kind of mission and that would take me in a different direction. So I eventually want to get, I do eventually want to get off the levers and I want to get sort of off the, off the site really and do my own thing, you know, more entrepreneurial like yourself.

So.

TIM:
Do you know what's funny? When I was on site, there was nothing I wanted more than to get off site. And now I'm in an office all day.

I really enjoy going on site.

JIMMY:
Yeah, I know. I know. Yeah.

Cause you come on in and you love it. I do, I do like, I do like it on site, but I don't, I just got other plans. And I think if I was gonna be training, I'd have to either work for somebody, which I don't wanna do, or I'd have to set up my own business, which I don't really wanna do either. So it is something I'm tired of, but probably not, probably not.
Good question though, good question. You didn't make me look like a titty though, well done. Right, that's us done.

So Tim, I know you're busy, so thanks very much for giving me your time or giving us your time. Now for the audience, for the viewers and the listeners, I mentioned earlier about our partnership. If you want to train in the lifting industry, whether it's crane operator, slinger, train two-throws or pointer person or whatever, you can get a hundred pounds off your course with Lift Tech Academy by going to www.lifttechacademy.co.uk forward slash construction cogs and quote the code CCOGS100. That will give you a hundred pound off. That will tell Tim's sales team that you're with me and then they'll apply a discount for you. That's it from me.

Thanks everyone for joining us. Once again, Tim, thanks for coming on and enjoy your evening.

TIM:
Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

JIMMY:
Absolutely, cheers brother.