Heaven's Gate

Lucy and Corbett talk about the Heaven's Gate cult and where it all ended back in the 90's.  Lots of cult talk, so if you are looking for advise on joining a cult, we don't have a lot to tell you, but plenty on the other side of that discussion.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Welcome to What You Missed When You Didn't Exist. I am Corbett, and I am 54.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

And I'm Lucy, and I'm twenty-five, and you're about to be fifty-five.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Another month and a half or so, pretty soon.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yeah. Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

And we're actually to the point now where you, I'm thinking in the future a little bit, because we record a little bit ahead of time, but you should be Mrs. Brown.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yes. Indeed.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

The very catchy brown.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Lucy Brown.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

For those of you who like uh Charlie Brown, that should be hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Nicola has refused the name Charlie, by the way. For any future kids that we have, we cannot have a Charlie Brown.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

That was supposed to be my name originally.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Charlie. But you have an uncle?

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Yeah, it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Oh, you were gonna be named after your uncle.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

That was gonna be named after my uncle at one point. I'll I'll leave that to your grandmother to tell the story there, but that's another thing. So anyway, on Whatch Miss When You Didn't Exist, we talk about the things that happened when I was alive and Lucy wasn't from 1970 to the year 2000. And this time around, it's gonna be terrible.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Awesome. The past sucked. What else is new?

SPEAKER_02 1:42

It kind of keeps doing that a lot. This specific event started about 1972, I want to say. Uh when the group was formed, Peaven's Gate was essentially starting to form around 72 to 74. Interesting. Oh, with a guy named uh Applesauce or Apple Dumpling or Apple White. That was his name.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Applesauce.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

I couldn't remember his name for a second. Like Apple White's any better.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

I mean, an apple white is not a food.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Well, Apple White and uh what was it, nettles? Yeah, his sort of partner.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

And they went by dough and tea?

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Uh one of them. Uh there was a couple like Bonnie and Clyde. They used like paired names for a lot of things. But she passed away in the 80s and he kept going into the 90s. And that's the thing. This story kind of starts way back in the 70s when they first get together and start creating a social group around people that basically believe that religion and UFOs are all tied together. Which honestly, sure, why not? Jesus came from outer space, and you know, Space Jesus sacrificed everything so that we can live forever, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Space Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

I wish I knew more about the Heaven's Gate mentality or thoughts, or I do not. And that's because I really didn't know about them until the big emphasis, and which is probably the focus of what we're going to be talking about. Uh in 96 there was a mass suicide for all the well, uh the abundant group of the Heaven's Gate Church, all committing suicide with when the return of the Hail Bop Comet came in. And I was kind of excited for the Hailbop Comet to come in because it was one of those things where Haley's Comet had just come through.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Haley's Comet was in 86. The next time we'll see it will be in 61.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

So Haley's Comet had come around just about 10 years before. So it was kind of cool because I gotta admit, Haley's Comet was a little bit of a disappointment. You you see all the pictures from the 1900s and they're like showing a rock flying through the sky. So this is visual accounts. So it was, oh, this is gonna be so awesome. And Haley's Comet coming in the 80s was kind of a pinhole in the sky, and we'll probably have a show to cover talking about that. It wasn't nearly as exciting as you would really, really want it to be. But yeah, what are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Is it because of the light pollution?

SPEAKER_02 4:07

No, it's just because of the way it was pointed at the earth. Instead of seeing it passing by the earth, it was pointed at the earth, so the tail wasn't there. So you just kind of kind of saw you basically kind of saw a slightly brighter light than the stars. Like, oh, that's that's Haley's comet. Cool. And the Hail Bop comet well did you did see a little more of a tail, it was a little more visible, but apparently that also prompted the Heaven's Gate people to commit suicide and rejoin Jesus in in Space Heaven? I don't have a good answer for that one. I know one of the tenants of the church, well, several of the tenants of the church, they all had the same colored tracksuit. They were like purple tracksuits with a specific type of sneaker that everybody made Nike, thank you. Everybody kind of jabbed at like, yeah, Nikes for winners, and they'd show pictures of people in the body bags with the sneakers sticking out. They're like, This is awful.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Rough.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Oh, and they also castrated most men. Wow. So yay, because that way they they wouldn't be distracted by their thoughts of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

They didn't they didn't want people like thinking about sex or drugs or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

No, no saying, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Well, they use drugs to help control them, from what I understand.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Well, that's a different thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Oh, okay. As long as we have levels to make it okay, that's fine. When you mix space and religion, it gets really dicey. Something about it. Just that this is because once you open it up to oh yeah, and lo and behold, the heavens opened up and God came down in his spaceship jet ski or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Jet ski. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

He's the savior. He can ride on anything he wants, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Uh-huh. Yeah, this is a crazy group.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

A little bit.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

How many people died?

SPEAKER_02 6:00

39. Sorry, I had that not had that date wrong. It was 97, not 96. That's on me. But it was 39, 39 active members, all found in a 9,000 square foot home that they were renting uh at $7,000 a month. So not a cheap way to go. Living fancy in cool Nike sneakers and purple tracksuits.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Oh, yeah. Living it up.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

They called the the place the monastery. That was one thing I thought was weird. Because it did not strike me as a monastery. It struck me as a home. Actually, it almost struck me as a hotel, the way it looked. Because they showed images of all the bodies and where they were at. Were they all in a pile? No, they they all went to their own rooms and they ate. And yeah, now you make fun of me for applesauce. Why I remembered that was because they used applesauce. They used applesauce as their primary delivery system for the poison.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Poison. Poison that killed Gusko.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Gousco. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Riley can make so much better than I can. I can't. Actually, George does it really good too.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Yeah, there's the dream. Anyway, but these were a cult. I mean, that is not even a nice way to put it. Like, like, oh, they they were like a cult. Like they were straight up a cult. They completely believed in the astral spiritual nature of the the Christian life based on the the idea that Jesus came from outer space, which I guess is possible, but you know, okay, sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Well, then we all come from outer space technically, because we are all right.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Okay, if you're gonna get all Niels de Grasse Tyson on me here, yes. Technically, we're still from outer space because it's not like we left the neighborhood.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Still in outer space.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Well, but they believed that they were gonna be picked up. The arrival of the Hail Bop comet was going to be them getting picked up spiritually, and they would travel off with it.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Oh, okay. So the comet was a cover for the alien spaceship.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yes. At least that's what I got the intent from. Very confusing, honestly. But really any group that's like, hey, you know it'd be great if we all killed each other. I think I'm in a cult. That's the thing I would probably go with.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Why do you think people start cults? I guess. Do they do they in their minds go, I want to start a cult? Or do you think in their minds they're like, I have this religious idea and this is the plan?

SPEAKER_02 8:23

I would presume there's two reasons, but I would presume the first one would be the primary reason is people like power.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

True. Very true.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

You get power and you you have power, you want to wield power. Power is great. The other, and probably the more dangerous one, is the people who are trying to do something right. Like they this is this is the right way to do it. With those type of people, they're trying to help people to make it right. You know, it's like, oh, we need to have more granola to have better digestion. Like, okay, that sounds pretty good. We know it'd be helpful is if we had people who made sure to monitor the amount of granola we're all getting. And those people can control how and when we get to eat it, and then those people can deal with how and when we control we get to eat anything. And, you know, we don't need rule, we don't just let them take care of everything for us and we'll just be happy. And pretty soon you have a group of people who suddenly have power, and we go back to step one of get power.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

That tracks.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Granted, it's an assumption, but I had to deal with well, my dad dumped a lot of information about the Waco cult that was out there, which is another one we got to cover at some point. And it's very much the somebody wanted power, somebody got power, and they straight up went to use that power as much as they could.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

And that is probably the most normal way, I would wager. Now, granted, I'm no cult expert. I just see people, and and the problem also is there's people who want an answer. I think that's probably everybody on the planet mostly.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Just just if I was gonna be general. But there's a lot of people who just want to know like what the answer is, why we're here, how we are, blah, blah, blah. So obviously, if I do everything this guy says, then it's great. Fair. I guess my best answer there is don't join a cult.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

True. I feel like most people know about cults now, at this point at least. I'm surprised I didn't learn from the 90s and onward, because cults were a huge thing in the 60s and 70s, weren't they?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

So why uh I'm kind of surprised people didn't learn in the 90s.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

We haven't really covered the Jonestown massacre. That's a whole nother one. We got so many bad things to cover for you.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Yes, only the bad things. There are no things. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

There are a lot of fun things out there, but there are also a lot of terrible things. And this is kind of how history works, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Lame.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

I wish I had better answers for that, but it just happens.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

It's hard.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Anyway, sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

No, it's okay. I mean, people just know should know about cults now. They do it in TV. I think I was telling you earlier that I remember an episode of Bones because they had a culty episode that they were trying to solve the murder for.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Because Cindy Lauper's character, the psychic, I wish I remembered her name. But sh her sister and her were in a cult that was supposed to send them up into space or something. So that way they could go live out with the aliens. And her sister ended up getting murdered, and they found all these bodies underneath a water fountain, I think. And this guy had just killed them and stole all their money. Because power. Power's a thing.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Power's uh power's a pretty powerful. Well, pretty power. Pretty power's pretty powerful. That's that is a statement, and words are attached to it.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

That should be a tattoo. Power is powerful.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Yes. I came up with that on my own. Nobody helped me. Take that, AI.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

People are drawn to power because they think it'll protect them, or because they think it'll help them, or because they just want to be a part of it, or they want to use a part of it too. I feel like we're almost always in a cult to a certain degree.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

I mean, just pop culture-wise, we flow along and and everybody says the same thing and we say the same thing, and everybody's part of the same group. It's almost better to not be part of the pack, but when you're not part of the pack, let's go back to nature on this one. But when you're not part of the pack, you get picked off. So I guess just stay with the group.

unknown 12:35

That's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

I mean, believe what you want to believe in, I guess. And I think we are all trying to figure out answers. So hopefully we can figure out our own.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

You know what? Yes, people should believe in what they wouldn't believe in because ultimately that's where freedom comes from, and that's really good. But you know what? It's okay to check around. And it's okay if you're not right. Yeah. Because I can guarantee you, I'm wrong plenty of times.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

But so is everybody else. And everybody wants to tell you, like, I've never been wrong. I'm always right. This is totally the answer. It's like, no, it's just one of many. And feel free to to check your neighbors. Say, like, hey, are you doing something stupid? I'm like, I don't think so. I just joined this cult. No big deal, right? It's like I think you're doing something stupid. It's it's hard to not want to talk to your friends and neighbors and and let them know when they're doing something that doesn't sound right. But maybe you need to just say, hey, it might be kind of dumb because sometimes we do dumb stuff, and that leads down a bad path.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yes, that's true. It can be hard.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

No, it's a it's a tough one. And honestly, there's no good answers, and there's probably gonna be cults in the future. Sorry to say Lucy, we didn't get rid of cults, they just keep popping up, but that's one of them.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

You're telling me cults still exist.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

I'm pretty sure there's some right now. Somewhere out in the world, there's some group that believes that they are the ones with the answers. And I hate to say it, we're all still looking for answers. The best thing I can do is pick out a cool music group and try to follow what they're saying at least. Maybe you'll get it a little further along. I mean, I'd agree with Taylor Swift, but in general, most of her messages are pretty positive.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Hey, don't mess with the T Swift and the T Swift cult. You're gonna get murdered. I am a proud member of the T Swift cult.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Well, the second she starts demanding you wear certain shoes and have applesauce, uh, I'm worried for you.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Man, it'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

That's a great example. It's okay to travel with a pack. Just remember that just because they're all walking off the cliff, you don't have to do it too.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

I think that's uh old mother's wisdom right there. You know, just because they're they jump off a bridge doesn't mean you have to.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Uh you've said that to me before, dude.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yeah, I know. It's because you jumped off plenty of bridges.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

No, I jumped off of roofs, remember?

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Totally different. Yeah. I think it was you getting stabbed in the lip.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Well, I got stabbed in the lip, but I also jumped off the park the parking garage roof into the pilot's knell, and that's why I sprang the room.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

I know. So anyway.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Find your cult.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Yeah, find your cult.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

But don't get murdered by your cult.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Find your cult and enjoy the shoes, but when it comes to eating the the sauce or the sauce. Just just don't do it and walk away. There's other cults and there's other shoes. You'll be fine. From what you missed when you didn't exist, don't don't join cults.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Don't join killer cults. Shh on the things?