Blend wellness and performance like the pros- Taylor Kruse

Taylor Kruse is Co-founder of Kruse Elite is a performance and wellness coach with a focus on elite human performance. 

Kruse Elite has a distinct style with a focus on many elements that you may be ignoring. Their coaching has produced some of the best results by a few of the top pro athletes in OCR.

During the episode we cover:

• The number one mobility movements that runners need to do and when to do it. 
• Why over-breathing can lead to poor performance and how to fix it.
• How visual and coordination training is the missing piece for athletics and how to improve.

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Transcript

Taylor Kruse

Rich Ryan: [00:00:00] Taylor Kruse. Hello. 

[00:00:01] Taylor Kruse: [00:00:01] How are you? Rich? 

[00:00:02] Rich Ryan: [00:00:02] Good man. Thanks for joining me today. I'm really excited to dive into some of the methodology that you teach. It's kinda, it's really been kicked around the OCR world. A lot of the top athletes are getting into it at practice. Some of the things myself, just some of your basic things that you, you have,to consume.

[00:00:18] So I'm really excited to dive in. But the first, like, because of this quarantine, , I'm curious and I, and I'm looking for advice. What does it show that you've been able to binge on since the quarantine, 

[00:00:32] Taylor Kruse: [00:00:32] since the quarantine, 

[00:00:34] Rich Ryan: [00:00:34] That you would recommend during the quarantine? 

[00:00:36] Taylor Kruse: [00:00:36] Gosh, so we don't watch that much, cause we don't, you know, I don't even have cable.

[00:00:43] We'll throw on Netflix in the evening and stuff. And I think at this point with my partner, Alicia, we've rewatched friends. A million times. So 

[00:00:54] Rich Ryan: [00:00:54] it's an easy, it's an easy watch. It's there, there's no problem. And does it hold up like, I don't think I've watched an episode in a couple of years. Is it funny still or is 

[00:01:03]Taylor Kruse: [00:01:03] it's funny, but it's just like, it's just easy on your, on your mind. So it's like good, good thing to chill out too. In the evening. 

[00:01:11] Rich Ryan: [00:01:11] I find the same thing and we're the same way here. We don't have a TV, we don't have cable, so it's Netflix or whatever. Whatever we have, and we won't really be involved in a show at any particular time.

[00:01:22] We tried to put it on the wire the other day. We put it on for like two minutes and we're like, this is too heavy. Let's, we ended up putting on like community, which is another comedy that's on Netflix, which is hilarious. And I, and I would recommend it. Okay, cool. so what is something that you thought was cool when you were younger, but like now looking back, you realize that it wasn't actually cool.

[00:01:41] Taylor Kruse: [00:01:41] Mm. Probably like trying to dye my hair with hydrogen peroxide back when I was a skateboarder. 

[00:01:48] Rich Ryan: [00:01:48] Oh, that is such a thing. Like with the peroxide too. I had friends that would do that. I definitely did the, the whole, would it turn like red or would it be like blonde? 

[00:01:57] Taylor Kruse: [00:01:57] It was like copper. 

[00:01:59] Rich Ryan: [00:01:59] Yeah. 

[00:01:59] Taylor Kruse: [00:01:59] Yeah. 

[00:02:00] Rich Ryan: [00:02:00] Cause some people whose hair might be lighter, like you and I, we both have pretty dark hair.

[00:02:03] Like if they're lighter, they might turn like have like that M and M type of white 

[00:02:07] Taylor Kruse: [00:02:07] color. 

[00:02:08] Rich Ryan: [00:02:08] But now it's like 

[00:02:09] Taylor Kruse: [00:02:09] reddish first going for the blonde tips. But you know, over and over again it never happened. 

[00:02:15] Rich Ryan: [00:02:15] Oh my God, that is such a, I don't know if that's still a look, but yeah, I thought about that recently.

[00:02:19] Someone had a. Because just because of the quarantine, I heard something like that Proxide that you swap your nose with it or something. It helps kill the germs. There's a lot of information being tossed around now and I was like, Oh, cool. And we could like dye our hair. Then later, and my girlfriend, Amy was like, I don't know what you're talking about.

[00:02:38] I'm like, it was a thing. But yeah, I'm glad that you grew out of that one. cool. So what is, what is a skill that you think everyone should have? Not even physical, it could be any type of skill. 

[00:02:50] Taylor Kruse: [00:02:50] Hm. Good decision making. 

[00:02:56] Rich Ryan: [00:02:56] Would you call that a skill? Like is that develop, like you can develop that or are you just 

[00:03:01] Taylor Kruse: [00:03:01] cursed?

[00:03:02] You can develop that 

[00:03:04] Rich Ryan: [00:03:04] such as when and when not to dye your hair. 

[00:03:09] Taylor Kruse: [00:03:09] Yeah, exactly. 

[00:03:10] Rich Ryan: [00:03:10] That, that skill has been crafted over the years. So that's true. We can, we can definitely do that. What is one thing that everyone loves that you hate? 

[00:03:19]Taylor Kruse: [00:03:19] it seems, cause I'm from Massachusetts originally, so, it's not that I hate it, but I don't really get into following those types of professional sports, like following the red Sox and the Patriots and all that. And so it's not that I hate it, but it seems like everyone around me is doing that. And I've always been the guy that is not.

[00:03:38] Rich Ryan: [00:03:38] That's a great one from, for someone in new England. Cause does it seem like it just comes up in conversation without it, without even, like just being a guy being in new England or people just talking about the pats 

[00:03:50] Taylor Kruse: [00:03:50] like, yeah, I mean it's everywhere. Everywhere you go, that kind of thing comes up. So 

[00:03:55] Rich Ryan: [00:03:55] did they just assume that you're, you're following?

[00:03:57] Taylor Kruse: [00:03:57] Definitely, especially, especially given the line of work that I'm in with, you know, training and conditioning and, yeah, I just never really got into. Instead of following those types of pro sports. 

[00:04:09] Rich Ryan: [00:04:09] Yeah. It's like, yeah, you're a, you're a gym guy. Like you like sports. Right, exactly. That's funny cause it's, it's very similar here in Philadelphia.

[00:04:17] I mean we're sports crazed, so they'll definitely say the same thing. And I just assume it's because of the. Poor weather is, is kind of my thought around it, that people like the sports is what we do. And like really it's not outdoorsy here at all. So sports really kind of takes over, like what do you think is the same way in mass?

[00:04:36] Or is it 

[00:04:37] Taylor Kruse: [00:04:37] just, it could be. I never really thought about it like that, but you know, so I'm not really, not really sure to be honest with you. Yeah. 

[00:04:46] Rich Ryan: [00:04:46] Yeah. I don't know if it's just in the culture and just part of it, what everybody does, 

[00:04:49] Taylor Kruse: [00:04:49] but culture. Yeah. 

[00:04:51] Rich Ryan: [00:04:51] Yeah. I found myself growing away from sports more and more as I get older.

[00:04:54] But yeah, growing up it was just like what you did, what you watched, but that's a great one. So no paths. You're not, you're not sad. Tom Brady's not there, but, could you, you were a wrestler, right? So my last question is, is it true that in wrestling, if you keep your elbows in, you'll 

[00:05:12] Taylor Kruse: [00:05:12] win? It's only, 

[00:05:14] Rich Ryan: [00:05:14] that's the only advice I know on wrestling.

[00:05:15] And is 

[00:05:15] Taylor Kruse: [00:05:15] that true as good advice? Cause you definitely want to keep your elbows tight to your body. I don't know if it's going to make it so that you win cause there's so many, so many variables. But yeah, that's a good advice. In wrestling, 

[00:05:27] Rich Ryan: [00:05:27] I think risk control, elbows in. 

[00:05:29] Taylor Kruse: [00:05:29] Yep. That's the terminology. 

[00:05:31] Rich Ryan: [00:05:31] So I got, I got the high school I went to here in Pennsylvania was a wrestling powerhouse when I was in high school.

[00:05:37] They won. That's 

[00:05:37] Taylor Kruse: [00:05:37] a good area. 

[00:05:38] Rich Ryan: [00:05:38] Yeah, I had that. I went to a school called Easton and they won the state four years in a row, they would have, you know, regular state champs. so yeah, I like wrestling. I follow it. Like I, I would go to all the matches, so I know a little bit about it. I can, I could probably score a match if I, if I watch it.

[00:05:54] Do you follow like. Olympic wrestling at all. 

[00:05:57] Taylor Kruse: [00:05:57] Yeah. I, I'm, I'm, I'm much more, I, I follow a lot of individual sports and wrestling is one of those that I, that I definitely keep track of. yeah. So, so I'm, I'm watching the Olympic level stuff, just, you know, all the international level stuff, freestyle, all that.

[00:06:13] And, and even college. 

[00:06:14] Rich Ryan: [00:06:14] And do you watch like follow like flow wrestling? Is that where he keeps it all that they were the first ones cause I was a track athlete. It's kinda the same thing unless you have done track. Like watching track isn't going to be that appealing. Especially a distance event like watching a 10 K like somebody do like 26 laps, probably not going to do it.

[00:06:31] So there's flow track as well. So I knew of that piece. Yeah. What is, what is the coolest part about wrestling? Like watching it, like what is like the biggest appeal of it? 

[00:06:42] Taylor Kruse: [00:06:42] As far as like being a spectator and watching it. 

[00:06:44] Rich Ryan: [00:06:44] Just what like you've liked the most about like, 

[00:06:48] Taylor Kruse: [00:06:48] I like how dynamic it is. It's, it's one of the most dynamic sports, you know, you almost have to be like, it, it's got like elements of gymnastics in it.

[00:06:58]in terms of what you need to be able to do with your body, and it's super fast and explosive and super dynamic. 

[00:07:06] Rich Ryan: [00:07:06] And endurance is a huge part. 

[00:07:08] Taylor Kruse: [00:07:08] It is. It is. You know, you gotta be, you gotta have grit to do it. And, and it's got a lot of cool things involved in it. 

[00:07:17] Rich Ryan: [00:07:17] And I think about it now, looking back at these kids who were literally.

[00:07:22] Set up against each other like mano a mano in high school. It's doesn't seem like there's anything like that you have to be like, or to be presented with that or, or grown up with that. It's, it's something that most people don't have. It's like it's just you, it's trying to impose your will on somebody else and they're trying to do the same thing.

[00:07:37] Was it really stressful as a kid or did you just not know? 

[00:07:40] Taylor Kruse: [00:07:40] It can be, but you know, it builds a lot of character and there's something just like what you said, there's something to be said about that one on one situation. And when you lose, it's because somebody held you down against your will and you couldn't do anything about it.

[00:07:59] And then you got to go shake their hand and their hand gets raised and yours doesn't. And it's a, you have to be able to deal with that kind of thing. And it's, it's a much different feeling than say being out on the field with your team and losing a game. Wrestling. It's all you. 

[00:08:15] Rich Ryan: [00:08:15] It has to be humbling.

[00:08:16] And on the other side, like I said, I went to high school with all these kids who never lost. So they were, their heads were just so big. They were untouchable because they were in this sport where they literally were, you know, they, they went one-on-one with something and they came out. And you kind of have to have that.

[00:08:30] I would imagine that you like the confidence level that you have to bring into a match. Most like be really hand in hand with the results you get. Like if you go in and you doubt yourself, it's probably not going to go very 

[00:08:41] Taylor Kruse: [00:08:41] well. Yeah. There's no room for doubt. Absolutely. 

[00:08:44] Rich Ryan: [00:08:44] Hmm. Yeah. So it's definitely a cool sport and I should probably try to pick it back up, but when it gets to the higher level stuff, it's less fun cause they're so good.

[00:08:53] Like everybody's so good. So just just being defense and you have to have a real fine appreciation for it at that point. 

[00:08:59] Taylor Kruse: [00:08:59] Yeah, exactly. 

[00:09:00]Rich Ryan: [00:09:00] cool man. Awesome. So done with the question so we can start to get into the good stuff. But first, just, tell us a little bit more about yourself, who you are, a little bit about your background and what you're doing now at cruise elite.

[00:09:10] Taylor Kruse: [00:09:10] Sure. yeah, our company is Cruz elite, and I say our company because it's co owned by myself and my partner Alicia. And, yeah. We're up here in New Hampshire, in the white mountains, and we, you know, there's a couple of different, aspects of our business. So we are in the online space primarily right now.

[00:09:28] So we've got a couple of different, yeah. Things going on there from a remote programming for our clients, you know, general population clients and also professional athletes. And then we also have like a membership platform where we do, different educational topics where we're essentially training other trainers and coaches and people just in the health industry.

[00:09:50] And those are the two areas in terms of our, our online business. And then we also do some in-person stuff as well. Not quite as much as we were doing when we had a, a studio location in Massachusetts, but I'm still working with, with my athletes in person from time to time and that kind of thing.

[00:10:08] Rich Ryan: [00:10:08] So, yeah, the online space is very intriguing that way. Cause if you do want to. Spread the word as much as possible and help the most people. That's the ideal way to do it. Like if you can see people one on one, I mean, that's optimal for that one person. But to reach the most people that need and can benefit from what you're doing, like it kind of has to go online.

[00:10:32] And 

[00:10:32] Taylor Kruse: [00:10:32] it does. It does. And we've just really learned that in the last few years, and we've been making this transition over the last, and over the last couple of years. So we were at that crossroads where. When we had our, our in-person studio, you know, even between both Alicia and I, you can only have so many sessions in person and we just had to, yeah.

[00:10:52] Start thinking a little bit bigger and figure out how we might be able to affect more people online and what that would, what that would consist of. And so now we're. What do you mean? A number of different things, including right now? building programs that that are, you know, that will allow us to take our philosophy and reach larger groups 

[00:11:10] Rich Ryan: [00:11:10] thinking more or less like commoditize it.

[00:11:12] So you can, it doesn't have to be some high end product that only the elite can afford. Right. Literally afford. And then you can sprint, sprint out to reach the widest group of people. 

[00:11:23] Taylor Kruse: [00:11:23] Yeah, exactly. 

[00:11:24] Rich Ryan: [00:11:24] So I did notice that from, from the things that you offer. And it's a really great way that, that you're able to kind of expand that because it becomes clear that you guys are about helping people in that respect.

[00:11:32] Because you could do one on one in person and just charge a shitload and just probably do just as well monetarily. But when it's about helping people, it's about stretching so people can kind of get that access, which is awesome. And so from my perspective, the training that. you and Aleisha provide and the information, it's not necessarily mainstream or however you want to stamp it.

[00:11:59] It does seem a little bit, outside the box of what the general population or even like regular trainers would, would see. And one thing that I had noticed that you guys talk about and that I've kind of seen maybe like the highest level of professional athletes is the decision training. And one thing that really resonated with me.

[00:12:16] That you had mentioned was that things come down to speed and strength, but really it's about 

[00:12:21] Taylor Kruse: [00:12:21] how 

[00:12:22] Rich Ryan: [00:12:22] quickly your brain can process that kind of information. And that sounds like something that is hard to measure and hard to see in other people. Like, like I can see, I can know if someone stronger than me or faster than me, but how I can't really tell if I'm.

[00:12:39] They're just making decisions better. So how do you help train athletes to help process information better so they can utilize their speed and strength? 

[00:12:47] Taylor Kruse: [00:12:47] It's a great question. I mean that that right there is really the essence of what we do because the, the philosophy that we use is very neuro centric, meaning that.

[00:12:57] We're always thinking about what the brain and nervous system are doing and how the brain and nervous system are responding to any given training stimulus that we use. So for our listeners, it might be, it might be new to. Even boil it down to like brain function and nervous system function in terms of exercise and training.

[00:13:19] So what's important for people to understand first is what we call neurology one Oh one so you have to understand like what is the primary job of the brain and nervous system? And it comes back to what you just described as the ability to process information, make decisions with that information, and then create an output, which would be.

[00:13:40] The movement that we're trying to do. So if you think about it like this, our brain and our nervous system are designed to take in information from the outside world. And we do that through a number of different senses. And so many of those senses, people are, are already familiar with. So we're talking senses like smell and taste, and, what we see through our visual system and maybe what we feel through.

[00:14:09] No sensation on our skin, but also through proprioception. So like when we're moving, what kind of information our joints are actually relaying back to our brain. So, these are all. These are all basically senses that are constantly sending that information to our brain. And our brain then has to go through a interpretation process of that information.

[00:14:34] So it has to interpret and then decide what to do with that information. And then once it does that, there's an eventual output, and that output could be any movement that you're practicing. That output could be. Squat lunge, you know, push up, pull up, whatever, whatever it is that you're doing. So the essence of what we do on the neuro centric side of things is we use different senses and we stimulate those senses to create a higher quality output.

[00:15:10] So the quality of the inputs coming in is going to determine the quality of the outputs that are happening. That means that we can see, we can consider, inputs, like any of the training tools that we're using. We can consider the inputs, different exercises that we're using, whether it's a vision exercise or a balanced exercise, or even using a kettlebell in a certain way or a band in a certain way.

[00:15:40] And that information that we get from those training stimuli. Has to go somewhere and it goes to our brain, and the faster our brain can interpret that information and most importantly, the accurate in its interpretation. The higher quality, the output will be. So, so that is that decision making loop in terms of what our brain and nervous system is designed to do.

[00:16:05] So its inputs come in, your brain then tries to interpret and decide what to do with them, and then there's the eventual output. So that's, that's neuro one Oh one. Hmm. And that's very important to us when we're training. 

[00:16:20] Rich Ryan: [00:16:20] And does that become part of the training process? Is the education behind this and is that 

[00:16:25] Taylor Kruse: [00:16:25] like 

[00:16:25] Rich Ryan: [00:16:25] explaining to people why they are doing 

[00:16:28] Taylor Kruse: [00:16:28] certain things?

[00:16:29] Because if I don't do that, it's going to be tough to keep them around because 

[00:16:33] Rich Ryan: [00:16:33] I don't feel an arm pump right now, 

[00:16:35] Taylor Kruse: [00:16:35] like a pushup to most people is just a pushup. But a pushup. To us requires a number of different things that our brain and nervous system has to be able to do. And, and, and all movement for us is really a window into someone's brain function.

[00:16:53] So, so yeah, it's exactly, 

[00:16:57] Rich Ryan: [00:16:57] and. Yeah. Could you dive a little bit more into what a what an example? Like a practical example would be? Something that I think of a lot of times when it comes to people just not having it connect well with movement would be something like a hip hinge where it's like, yes, like talk and push your butt back so you can get into proper squat form or however it's traditionally taught.

[00:17:18]but there just doesn't seem to be a connection. It's not that they can't do it, it's just that they haven't been able to do it is the way I kind of. like brings to me. So is there an example like in an a pushup or a hip hinge that you would give them a specific input so that they could create this output?

[00:17:34] Taylor Kruse: [00:17:34] Yeah, exactly. So let's say you're working on a movement skill, like a hip hinge. The first thing that you know, we generally would do is what can we do locally in the area of the body that we want to express better movement? What can we do with that area to potentially improve the movement? So if it's a hip hinge.

[00:17:52] We might look at, you know, do you have the, the the right or the, hip mobility that's necessary for the skill so we could perform a hip mobility drill and then reassess what the hip hinge and see if the hip hinge is better. And that would be one way to sort of uncover what the right input might be for improving that skill.

[00:18:14] And you know, there's a number of different things you could do starting locally. Like that is just a really simple way to approach it. But the cool thing is when you start diving into neurology, there can be other things that come into play for that same hip hinge that seemed completely unrelated. For example, your vestibular function, and that's a fancy word, your vestibular system.

[00:18:38]that's a fancy word to describe your inner ear and the organ that we have in there to help us understand where we are in space, which way we're traveling, and which way is up. Hm. And a lot of people are familiar with it in their own way. Cause if you've ever heard of somebody having like vertigo, 

[00:18:53] Rich Ryan: [00:18:53] yeah, you're getting 

[00:18:54] Taylor Kruse: [00:18:54] dizzy, right.

[00:18:56] That's a, that's a problem occurring in the inner 

[00:18:58] Rich Ryan: [00:18:58] ear, like an ear infection. And they do their balancing 

[00:19:01] Taylor Kruse: [00:19:01] and then that'll throw your balance off. So your vestibular system has huge importance when you're moving. Because for a hip hinge, if my head is going to move through space. As I hip hinge, that means my vestibular system has to be sensing in measuring that movement as I move through space.

[00:19:22] If there is, if it's working really well, then there my body will not be threatened at all to make the movement, but if my brain is unsure a little bit by what is going to happen, like maybe my brain thinks it's unsafe to move at high speed. In that direction, then we may see that it's harder for a person to do things like hip hinges or squats or lunges because their vestibular function is not, is not where it needs to be.

[00:19:51] Rich Ryan: [00:19:51] And in those cases where it is the vestibular system. Is there like a dysfunction there because of something that may have happened in a previous experience, or is it just lack of literally working it 

[00:20:05] Taylor Kruse: [00:20:05] out or so? Both. Yeah. Both of those things come up all the time. So, you know, one of the things that we do with everybody that we work with is we take an extensive health history.

[00:20:16] And, and we keep taking the health history as time goes on. Cause you know, people remember things that have happened and you know, as we go, you know, life changes and whatever, there's injuries and things like that. So everybody has their own unique health history that can play into why some system may be underperforming.

[00:20:36] And then sometimes on the other end of things, it is just as simple as they haven't had that training yet. So their brain hasn't learned those skills yet. 

[00:20:44] Rich Ryan: [00:20:44] Yeah, and that makes sense. For someone who might be just new to fitness or just or have been sedentary for a long time, like you could like forget 

[00:20:52] Taylor Kruse: [00:20:52] you're right.

[00:20:54] Rich Ryan: [00:20:54] And when it comes to like that window, when you see these movement patterns, what does that diagnose diagnostic process like for you guys? When. You're, you're seeing people, is it boiled down to, are there other things like the vestibular system that you guys will approach and try to have like more or less a checklist, right?

[00:21:15] Like checking for different things to see where, what things could boil down to. So where you can focus, like what does that. Diag diagnosis process like, 

[00:21:24] Taylor Kruse: [00:21:24] so yeah, we definitely have one of those. It gets relatively complicated, but at the most basic level, when I'm first working with somebody, I'm immediately assessing their coordination.

[00:21:35] And you know, the fancy term for that is cerebellar function. Like I want to know the cerebellum's a part of a person's brain that helps us coordinate tasks. And so all movement for me is essentially a coordination assessment that tells me how they're, they're executing. you know, the movement. So if I see like ratchety movements that don't look smooth in nature, I can start to think like, okay, there might be a coordination issue that I need to, that I need to know about.

[00:22:04] So I'm immediately assessing for, coordination deficits. I'm immediately assessing to see how well a person is breathing. Because breathing comes into, you know, performance in, in a ton of different ways and it's really, really important. so we have like breathing assessments that we run people through and we have balance assessments that again, go back to like more vestibular function.

[00:22:27] How well can this person maintain their balance while their head is moving through space and while their eyes are doing different things. So, so between. Coordination and balance and breathing. We probably also would look at a person's gait, so their walking gait, their running gait. And those are really all good indicators that give us that window into their, into their function.

[00:22:53] Rich Ryan: [00:22:53] And just to double back a little bit more to the like decision training. So once you've kind of figured out where the people need to 

[00:23:02] go, 

[00:23:02] Taylor Kruse: [00:23:02] like how do you. 

[00:23:04] Rich Ryan: [00:23:04] Kind of develop a skill like that, or how, how can people know if they're behind on something like that or if they're at a point of proficiency? Or is it, is there like, is it never ending?

[00:23:13] Is it, is it not linear? Does it keep going or 

[00:23:15] how 

[00:23:15] Taylor Kruse: [00:23:15] does it, so I do think it keeps going and I just, because you, you keep developing, you keep developing the skill. But in terms of how do you know when you might have, an issue there. We have, some cool assessments that we run people through. And one of them is our coordination chart assessment.

[00:23:33] So a coordination chart is a piece of paper that we can put on the wall. And if you can imagine there's 36 images on the piece of paper just in, you know, just lined up and there's a star and the star is in one of three positions relative to a vertical line. The star can either be on the middle, touching the line, it can be to the right of the line, or it can be to the left of the line, and there'll be slight variations, but it's either middle, right or left.

[00:24:07] So what you can do is you can read the coordination chart. And we assign movements to each of the stars. So if there's three positions that the stars can be in, and I'll just show you like right here with my arms, I could say, all right, middle, middle star is going to be lifting both arms up over your head, right star is going to be right arm out, left star is going to be left arm out.

[00:24:28] And so then it's like ready, set, go. And they have to move through this thing, reading the chart as quickly as they can. And it gives us really good feedback on how well they can take visual information and process it and make a movement. And because the visual system is so dominant in performance, right?

[00:24:49] This tells us, you know, how a person is doing in that category and we're assessing for things like how quickly can they do it? Can they stay relaxed as they do it or do we start to see them build tension in their body? 

[00:25:02] Rich Ryan: [00:25:02] Are people surprised by the outcomes when they go through this type of assessment?

[00:25:07] Cause I'm thinking of some friends who I know do terrible and I'm thinking of myself like I think I might do okay. But I don't know. I haven't done anything like that. I haven't done anything that has much to do with reaction because my focus has been endurance for so long that I actually don't know.

[00:25:20] So are people surprised when they go through this and 

[00:25:22] Taylor Kruse: [00:25:22] yeah, they are. They are. Cause the task seemed pretty, seemingly simple. And then when you start running them through this stuff, people. People are amazing, like freeze up and build tension in their body and you know, it's like, stop, go, stop, go, stop, go.

[00:25:36] Kind of reactions. So, yeah, they, a lot of times they are. 

[00:25:39] Rich Ryan: [00:25:39] And it looks like you work with a variety of ages from like, younger kids like high school aged kids and up. Does it get worse or does it get, is there like, like are younger kids better naturally cause they are kind of out there in the world moving more fluidly.

[00:25:56] Than an adult who might just be at a desk all the time? Or 

[00:25:59] Taylor Kruse: [00:25:59] does it things though? I think in terms of that, yes. I think, I think we generally see that younger kids are, are a bit more, a bit quicker, able to process that set information and make those movements a little faster. And then people that are stuck behind the desk all day.

[00:26:17] It's like they have to relearn that stuff 

[00:26:20] Rich Ryan: [00:26:20] and you take it for granted. Like if you played basketball in high school, I feel like I can do this stuff like I'm good to go. But if you're out there, if you're, if you don't touch that, if you don't keep that skill sharp, I'm sure. Just like anything else. And the vision is something you mentioned as well.

[00:26:37] And is that like, is that like a full stop if someone's vision is poor or if their vision training is poor, like. How can you train the senses to help like to help with these type of, of movements or assessments or, or, or your general movement. 

[00:26:55] Taylor Kruse: [00:26:55] Sure. So yeah, when it comes down to vision, I guess it's important for people to hear that we're not just talking about how clearly you see something, although that's like a primary function of the visual system, right?

[00:27:07] We want to see things clearly. What we're actually assessing for more often than not is. You know how well your eyes move cause your eyes have muscles. So just like we do mobility drills for our joints, we also want to do mobility drills for our eyes so that we can mobilize those muscles. And the better that those muscles function, the better that will actually move through the world.

[00:27:31] Because our visual system is so dominant in everything that we do. It's telling us essentially what to do and when to do it. Hm. 

[00:27:39] Rich Ryan: [00:27:39] And would that be essentially just like looking back and forth or like following lights or 

[00:27:44] Taylor Kruse: [00:27:44] it could be anything reactive. Like that coordination chart example still falls into the category of a vision drill because it's visual information that you have to process.

[00:27:54] We also do more isolated vision drills where. You might be like holding a visual target, like something as simple as a pen. And you know, you have the pen maybe six inches from the tip of your nose and you're focusing on the, on the near target. And then you're jumping your eyes to the far target, going back and forth, back and forth.

[00:28:12] And you're essentially learning how to bring a target into clear focus faster. And that's a very prolific athletic skill because you have to focus on stuff far away, focused on stuff near. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. 

[00:28:29] Rich Ryan: [00:28:29] Yeah. Like the example that comes would be a Tom Brady quarterback example, like just for the broad masses is like, they've literally see everything at all different angles and all different spectrums of the 

[00:28:37] Taylor Kruse: [00:28:37] field.

[00:28:39] So 

[00:28:40] Rich Ryan: [00:28:40] with the, the, the sense training is, that's kind of like the first stop. Like. Like the coordination and the vision and those things, the way that you get the input in, is that kind of like the first place to start? Like is there a place to move into like regular mobility or other type of training before that?

[00:29:00] Or is this kind of something that you just really serve you well? 

[00:29:04] Taylor Kruse: [00:29:04] Right. So personally, I think you, the best place to start is with mobility and motor control. And so moving your joints. And because those are moving your joints and learning how to do that is usually a really novel task for people because they've never done it before.

[00:29:24] Rich Ryan: [00:29:24] And that was something else that I had on my list here is going through some of the basic mobility practices that you have and a lot of them have to do with like mid back and pelvis. And I'm just like standing there and I, 

[00:29:39] Taylor Kruse: [00:29:39] I just 

[00:29:41] Rich Ryan: [00:29:41] do it. I'm like, I'm watching you. I'm like looking down. I'm like, I don't think this is moving.

[00:29:45] Right? So like how, how, how can you do these things? How can you move and practice movement. When you can't in the first place, is it just kind of continuing to plug away at it or, 

[00:29:57] Taylor Kruse: [00:29:57] yeah, I mean there's, there's definitely, it is a practice. Joint mobility really is a practice and it's really common for people to get to some of those spinal drills and pelvic drills and not really be able to move.

[00:30:10] So, and that's different for everybody. I mean, you, you might be able to keep watching it and then start to figure it out, or you might need to modify it in certain ways. Like sometimes with those pelvic drills, we have people sit down. Hmm. And they're in a seat and it's like, okay, now lift one, you know, one side of your pelvis off the, off the bench, put it back down.

[00:30:28] And so there's definitely ways to modify. Hmm. But it is, it is a struggle for people when they start to learn that stuff because it's, it's super novel. They've never done it before. And those are areas of the body that essentially get ignored in traditional training. 

[00:30:42] Rich Ryan: [00:30:42] And do you, do you feel that that is because of the education around that, like bracing through the core and not, and keeping a complete flat back and kind of just eliminating some of the planes of movement with like your standard gym protocols and kind of how it's taught, right?

[00:30:56] Like, like, yeah. Not doing, not twisting as much for the fear of people getting hurt or, yeah, like everything is neutral spine. 

[00:31:04] Taylor Kruse: [00:31:04] Do you feel like 

[00:31:05] Rich Ryan: [00:31:05] that is part of 

[00:31:06] Taylor Kruse: [00:31:06] it? I think that's part of it. For some reason. There is a lot of fear in terms of, you know, around moving the spine, especially if you've ever had, you know, pain, you know, somewhere, you know, with your, with the spine.

[00:31:18] But you know, traditional training protocols. Yeah. They generally are. Are, you know, kind of boxed in in a sense that you don't see a lot of dynamic movement of the midline. So I think people don't really know what's possible. And then if you look at different athletic, you know, skills and what's happening in different, athletic activities, you'll see that your spine.

[00:31:42] Has amazing capabilities and it needs to be able to move, and then if you don't, if you don't practice that, then if you get forced into those positions in kind of a live situation at higher speeds, you're just more likely to either not be able to use your body the way you want to or you be. You might be at a higher risk of injury.

[00:32:02] Rich Ryan: [00:32:02] It's funny cause I was talking to a friend of mine who is a PT and I was thinking, I was telling them about like potentially doing like Jefferson curls or something like that. And he was like, no, never anything like that. Never anything. like it should always be extension and never flection. And I just couldn't really.

[00:32:16] Like, it just didn't make sense to me that it's like, okay, well maybe, but if you practice these specific movements and then if you watch any sport, like there's no, they're not limited wrestling as the ultimate example. MMA, like you have to move in every specific way and cause I feel like people 

[00:32:33] Taylor Kruse: [00:32:33] do get 

[00:32:34] Rich Ryan: [00:32:34] hurt then.

[00:32:34] And do you feel like it's just because that they, they aren't. Regularly moving? 

[00:32:40] Taylor Kruse: [00:32:40] Well, there's always like an educational piece to it as well. I mean, some people just, they need to be coached to learn how to do things properly. So, you know, people are out there getting hurt. You know, sometimes it really just does come down to a technique issue.

[00:32:53] But, you know, if you look at joints that they're, they're designed to do very specific movements and every joint has, you know, the ability to, to perform. A lot of them anyway, have the ability to perform very full ranges of motion. And the movements are very circular and curved lines, things like that.

[00:33:14] And if you, if you don't practice moving through those full ranges of motion, then it's a, it's pretty difficult to, to get into some of those dynamic positions that you were talking about. 

[00:33:26] Rich Ryan: [00:33:26] Yeah, I just came up with a wonder like how we got here with, with this where we're, most people can't, and I consider myself a, an athletic person who can't, and I, and I can't do some of these things, you know?

[00:33:37] And, and it's just, do you think it's just the way that everybody lives their lives or just, just the information that has been pressed down? And do you get pushback from people or practitioners when it comes to this stuff? 

[00:33:48] Taylor Kruse: [00:33:48] No, you know, not, not so much any more because there definitely is a lot more educational information out there now about, about what we should be doing with in regards to joint mobility.

[00:34:01] I mean, you know, 10 years ago the word mobility people didn't even, we weren't even really hearing that very much. And now it's kind of like a buzz word and we're 

[00:34:10] Rich Ryan: [00:34:10] starting to, I feel like people hear it and is flexibility. They don't really.

[00:34:19] Taylor Kruse: [00:34:19] Yeah. And that's very, that's a very important point that I do find myself. educating on a lot where the difference, the difference between flexibility and mobility. We were looking at flexibility as more of a passive means of range of motion. So, you know, if, you know, how can you, think about it as relaxing into a position.

[00:34:39] And not really being in control of it necessarily. It's passive in nature and mobility, being more about your active range of motion, the the way that you can move your, your joints through their fullest ranges of motion using your muscles. 

[00:34:57] Rich Ryan: [00:34:57] And I feel like when people want to improve their mobility, like static stretching is something that.

[00:35:04] Right, kind of being the furthest I go, I need to stretch my hamstrings and quads. Right. Is there, is there a place for these two to melt together or is one far superior in your opinion when it comes to dynamic mobility or some of the practices? 

[00:35:19] Taylor Kruse: [00:35:19] That's a great question. So yeah, I, so I think that joint mobility is definitely far superior, but it also depends on who you are and what you want to do with your body.

[00:35:28] There are. Different activities in sports out there that do require? probably what we would look at is more of a, a passive, means of flexibility. But the problem is if you cannot express good motor control in those end ranges of motion. You're at a greater risk of injury. So in terms of which one is, is better for the, for the general person, for the average person, mobility is going to a, moving your joints actively is going to provide a bigger, bigger bang for the buck.

[00:36:05] Rich Ryan: [00:36:05] Then that makes sense in some of the experience I've had, like coaching people when in gym settings where someone might be very flexible. I mean there's, most people are not flexible. Say it again to like an overhead 

[00:36:15] Taylor Kruse: [00:36:15] squat position, 

[00:36:16] Rich Ryan: [00:36:16] but there are some people who are too flexible and they get it there really easily and then they just can't support it as they go through through emotion.

[00:36:26] And then like joint mobility, like a lot of the movements that, again, just based off the experience with things that I've seen are kind of gliding and rotating or along the lines of like cars that people might be familiar with that. and so is that how, how does, how does that work and how does that help improve mobility and help your being able to move through space and support yourself?

[00:36:50] Taylor Kruse: [00:36:50] Sure. So. Again, if you, if you look at what our joints are designed to do, and then you actually break it down from, you know, what the, what the actual joint allows for in terms of range of motion, you start to see that those movements are resemble circles or gliding motions like lateral translations.

[00:37:12]figure eights, any kind of curved line. Hmm. And that's kind of important to know because like athletic movement requires you to be able to put force into the ground and as that energy is transferred through your body, it's essentially a bunch of countering forces. One joint area rotates the next joint area counters it in this, this like symphony of countering.

[00:37:38]rotations happens as the energy is transferred through your body. So movements that appear to look linear actually are not necessarily linear. They're very spiral. Like. Hmm. That's, that's how human beings put force into the ground. That's how we move explosively and fast and how we maintain stabilization.

[00:37:59] So it's really just a matter 

[00:38:00] Rich Ryan: [00:38:00] of anatomy and then moving with the nav in that respect. 

[00:38:05] Taylor Kruse: [00:38:05] Right. Right. And so what we know, sorry to interrupt you, what we do know about, About a joint mobility is that when we perform those circular motions, and we do so at end range of motion, right, where we're actually using our muscles to create contraction to get us to our end range of motion, we are activating more of the nerve fibers that live in our joints and tissues, and that is a.

[00:38:36] A way to speak to our brain. Like we talked about inputs in a very novel way with a stimulus that our brain really pays attention to. And it, it also, it's not just about range of motion, it's also equally as much about motor control. How, how smoothly can you make those movements? And that's, I think one of the most important aspects of it.

[00:38:58] Rich Ryan: [00:38:58] Hmm. And that's interesting because most people wouldn't see it that way. Like you said, people see it as linear, we're running straight. You think everything is just kind of on top of each other and moving that way. Right. And is that just because we can only see what we can see and there hasn't been like how can you study this, right?

[00:39:14] Like how can you see how someone's internal like skeleton and joints are moving? but how did we get, how did you, the practices that got you here, like is it just intuitive measures or, cause. Right. Even if like never study, like you wouldn't be able to see something. 

[00:39:30] Taylor Kruse: [00:39:30] Right, right. you know, the best inspiration comes from things like gymnastics, martial arts, wrestling, dance, and those are, in seeing what the highest level athletes are actually capable of and then really looking at the shape of their body.

[00:39:46] Cause movement is really all about shapes. So when I'm working with, with my athletes, I often have them like sending me video and still frames of them doing their sport. And I'm like freezing those pictures and looking at all the shapes, the shapes that they're, joint structures are in, so that I can design a mobility drills that are specific to how they want to use their body.

[00:40:10] And when you start, when you start looking at movement like that. And like, so for example, I work with a lot of Alpine ski racers and they're moving really fast there. They have G-forces against them as they're doing. So they're in some really interesting positions and they have to stabilize their body against all these other forces coming from these different, these different variables.

[00:40:34] And I'll look and I'll say, okay, what positions they're headed. What positions they're neck in, what position is their eyes in? And I'm working down the chain, you know, looking at every piece, their pelvis, what are their hips doing? And when you start looking at movement that way, then you start seeing what I was talking about, where what's happening at the joint level is really interesting.

[00:40:58] And. It's not, things are not maybe as linear as they, they appear. 

[00:41:04] Rich Ryan: [00:41:04] And that's interesting because you feel like the way I'm interpreting what you're saying, when you're creating some sort of plan for something that's specific and specialized, like Alpine skiing, right, that they have to be all over the place and just like watching the people go down, I was like, I can't imagine putting myself in those positions.

[00:41:20] So when you create this plan, are you helping them get to those positions or are you, because a lot of times it seems like if you. What I would interpret of some sort of coaching is helping. Move everything back to center. I feel like there's a lot of times we're told like, we need to strengthen around that so that you're not moving or not going out of a particular range of motion.

[00:41:43] So is it built, do you build it to help people get to those positions safely or is it more like kind of a strengthening and mobility so they can move back to where they are. 

[00:41:52] Taylor Kruse: [00:41:52] Right. So for me, it's, I want to, I want to perform those them to perform those drills so that they can move into those positions with greater ease.

[00:42:01] But then what we do is we, we, by changing the variables when we work on our mobility, such as using a band, right? We're now strength training, the range of motion, and we might add variables like bands for strength training, the range of motion I might add. a metronome so they can move and they can time things better with that particular movement.

[00:42:28] And you know, there's different, there's different ways. We might just use different tools. Like I might want my ski racer to be under a lot of load, so I have them. I'm holding a kettlebell at the same time as mobilizing a joint so that we're, we're trying to give their body a lot of load at the same time so they can learn how to manage that load, but then also move those joints the way that they need to as relaxed as possible.

[00:42:54] Rich Ryan: [00:42:54] Huh. And you know, we're, most people listening are of course, races are runners. Do you find, what are some things that you find in runners that are that way? And I'm guessing everybody does have their own specific movement patterns, but you know, uphill, downhill, running or just flat running even. Are there specific things that stick out to you as far as the, the motion that.

[00:43:16] That you can help train 

[00:43:17] Taylor Kruse: [00:43:17] in terms of what they may need. Yeah. Yeah. So with, with runners, it's, it's. Huge to be practicing mobility drills with the, with the lower extremity, like the think feet, ankles, knees. Right? Cause that's, that's where the force begins, right? You're putting force into the earth, the earth putting force back into you, and you want that energy transfer to happen as efficiently as possible.

[00:43:44] So with runners. It's a lot of moving the joints in your feet, your ankles, your knees, your hips, and then also your pelvis. Because at the pelvis, that's where this energy crosses, and then so energy that's coming in, say the right leg will cross at the pelvis and end up exiting the left side of the body, right and up the spine, the neck, the shoulder, the arm.

[00:44:10] Right. We want to be working on all of those involved joints so that that energy can move through the body more efficiently. 

[00:44:20] Rich Ryan: [00:44:20] And is there a way to make it like synergistic? Where would you move like using your left shoulder while you are mobilizing your right leg. 

[00:44:32] Taylor Kruse: [00:44:32] Definitely. Yeah, absolutely. So I would consider that like more on the advanced end of things.

[00:44:38] So at first I'm teaching people how to independently move their joints just in a neutral stance or maybe in a lunge position, but where it goes in terms of adding those variables. Another variable you can add is more of a dual tasking approach where you know, we've got the left hip being mobilized at the same time as the right shoulder, right?

[00:44:57] We could be mobilizing the left knee at the same time as the right elbow. And those combination movements can actually be really effective. 

[00:45:06] Rich Ryan: [00:45:06] And that's just like mind blowing, right? Like cause running is con, people would, might consider it just very basic movement. Yeah, and all that's involved in it, and being able to mobilize the counter sides and your elbow people probably like my elbow, I'm running like my shins hurt right now.

[00:45:25]

[00:45:25] Taylor Kruse: [00:45:25] but I can tell you too, in terms of runners, just because there's so much impact and, and there's so many miles that just build up over time. Joint mobility is amazing for recovery. That's like, it's, it literally will erase some of those miles and, decrease the time of that you need for recovery so that you can do more.

[00:45:49] Rich Ryan: [00:45:49] And could you speak to that just a bit? Because I know my main limiting factor when it comes to training is am I just, my feet end up hurting? You know, like I just didn't like, okay, I just am in pain. Like energy wise, I'm going to just end up kind of being in pain. I need to back it off. What are those mechanisms that are that like Mo joint mobility would clear up like what is happening that is causing that pain and what are these miles adding?

[00:46:11] Taylor Kruse: [00:46:11] So it kind of comes back to what we were just describing where it's about. A forced transfer through the body. How efficiently is that happening? And when there's joint areas that are not moving nicely, you can look at those as areas where we're going to see a, an energy leak. Hmm. So it's a kink in the armor really.

[00:46:32] And you know, energy, you know, hits those areas and it's, it's not as efficiently and, and maybe that energy is dispersed and your body has to work extra hard to try to deal with it. And over time that just builds up and there's wear and tear on those localized tissues because they're having to work so hard to deal with that energy.

[00:46:51] So, so that's why it's important to learn how to move the joints in your feet, move the jaw, move your ankles, move your knees, all that stuff. And it can be used as preparation for what you're about to do as an endurance athlete. It can be used as a cooldown and, also it should be a part of your everyday recovery practice.

[00:47:11] Rich Ryan: [00:47:11] That's just something that I just wrote down, like thinking about this now, it's like movement versus mobility, but essentially you're saying it's the same thing, right? Like if you're able to move and handle the load, like your movement will improve, which will then reduce the amount of like energy leakage.

[00:47:26] Taylor Kruse: [00:47:26] Yep. Yeah. And it's just, yeah, and in terms of a recovery practice, the joint mobility is a better, a better use of time than say. You know, 15 minutes of joint mobility after you run is a much better use of your time than 15 minutes of foam rolling. Because when you're doing something like joint mobility, you're actually learning how to move better.

[00:47:49] When you're doing foam rolling, you're flopping around on the ground and you're digging it into things that hurt. So it's not that something like foam rolling doesn't have a purpose, but if you were to compare those things that we generally see people doing as a recovery practice. The joint mobility piece is so important because you are actually spending that time to improve your movement and make your brain better from it.

[00:48:17] Rich Ryan: [00:48:17] It's useful, right? It'd be like, yeah, it'd be like spending a time after basketball practice, like either shooting free throws or working on form drills or like. Icing, like icing, I guess would be, you know, like this is a practice that was going to translate practically into, and make you better and not wear and tear.

[00:48:36]and yeah, and then, and like the, the running shoes in general, you know, they're kind of built to help people not have to worry about this type of stuff as much. Right. So is that something that you feel you're having to undo? Because that to me, I look at running shoes and big chunk of shoes as a tool for people who aren't able to move in this way or have the resources or even the knowledge to teach or train themselves that, but still want to run still and to be active.

[00:49:07] So I think that there is a place for them. I can see on the other side how they do act and ultimately end up like a crutch. So it is that, is this also real beneficial for people who are running in bigger shoes or do you, do you have any thoughts on running shoes? 

[00:49:22] Taylor Kruse: [00:49:22] Yeah, I do. So I would actually, I would, I would encourage people to.

[00:49:27] The slowly working towards a more minimal shoe without crossing into like a dangerous situation where they no longer have the protection that they need if they're doing terrain based stuff or putting on, yeah, we're putting on huge, you know, huge miles. everybody is different. So you do have to, like, it's a process that you have to, you have to figure out for you.

[00:49:53] You can't just say. All right. I just saw this cool ad on Instagram and now I'm going, I'm going completely minimal, right? Because you'll pay a price for that. And, however, the reason, the reason that we want to, we want to make sure that our footwear is, is mobile enough for us, is that a shoe that is, has a lot of material on it that doesn't bend very nicely in different areas, essentially closes down those joints in our feet.

[00:50:22] And when joints close, there are, reflexive actions that take place that essentially down-regulate the function of our muscles. So for example, if you're in a shoe that's really tight and it's not mobile in the heel. And that's actually like one of the main things that you'll see in like a more traditional shoe, is that if you go to try to bend the shoe at its heel, it won't bend.

[00:50:48] A lot of shoes have a rod in there and it's like a very old design and you try to twist it and there's nothing. So if your heel bone is constantly getting. Jammed in your closing the joints in that area, you could actually have, different, issues where you don't have the same output that you would otherwise in your muscles.

[00:51:09] Like, an example is your hamstring. Might not have the function, its optimal function. If your heel is constantly getting jammed, which would be less power output. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we see that there's different joints in the feet have different correlations to different, you know, musculature in the lower body.

[00:51:27] But the point is if those joints can't move, then those nerve fibers that are supposed to send. Important information back to our brain about, you know, the terrain we're on, how fast we're moving, what kind of forces involved, which way are we going? That's all. Those are all those proprioceptive skills.

[00:51:47] Well, you are down-regulating or desensitizing that very important sense and that would be like putting on a pair of winter gloves and telling somebody good luck this week using your cell phone, like after a week of having winter gloves on and trying to use your cell phone. You're, you're going to be frustrated because you don't have the same feeling.

[00:52:07] You can't move the same. Your, your, the coordination of what you're doing is suffering. And so many people are wearing clunky shoes around for so long that their feet become immobile, and that could definitely cause issues down the road if you're, if you're a runner. 

[00:52:24] Rich Ryan: [00:52:24] That's a great analogy. And with the chunky shoes in general, it just kind of ends up being this loop that people get stuck in.

[00:52:33] I've definitely been guilty of this. Were moving into a minimal shoe. It kind of sucks. Like if you don't have, if you're not, if you're shut down and you don't 

[00:52:43] Taylor Kruse: [00:52:43] have these, 

[00:52:44] Rich Ryan: [00:52:44] right, the ability to use some of these joints or move through these motions so it feels way worse. Like during and after and people are training for stuff, right?

[00:52:54] So they are. What's going to make them feel better on a 10 mile run is a pair of Hoka is, is these, these new energy return return shoes where you actually can't feel anything like these new Nike, like the 4% or whatever. So what is the process that you would encourage people because to get into, because that's what happened to Vibram when they first came out.

[00:53:14] When you know 2006 2007 they promised that you would get better results and. More healthy, running, healthier, running. So people slap them on, they're like, cool, here we go. And then they got hurt and they're like, you lied to us. Like, well, you weren't supposed to do that. So how do you, how can people transition into something like that?

[00:53:34]Taylor Kruse: [00:53:34] you know, the first thing is. It's better to, if you're somebody that feels like you do have to be dependent on a shoe with, with more material and more protection, at the very least, you can still be doing, mobility drills for your feet and your ankles and still wearing the shoe that you wear if you feel you need it.

[00:53:52] But what you're doing before and after you run is you're decompressing your joints and that has huge value. But for somebody that wants to actually start that process of become wearing a more minimal shoe, you do have to do it on the slower side, but you should learn how to move your feet first and then start to, yeah, start to gradually go into more of a minimal shoe.

[00:54:13] And what you're going to find is that if you're going through good joint mobility practices, you're learning how to load your lower body in some awkward positions. And that's. In essence over time, making your tissues more adaptable and stronger. So that that is something that should be happening at the same time as, changing your footwear up.

[00:54:34] Rich Ryan: [00:54:34] Yeah, that's a good way to put it. So that it doesn't have to be this all or nothing approach 

[00:54:38] Taylor Kruse: [00:54:38] like the people 

[00:54:39] Rich Ryan: [00:54:39] getting new shoes because it's going to be a minimal runner. Now at least if you have the process and doing the drill to, to decompress and things of that nature, it would make it a little bit easier or at least get some of the benefits.

[00:54:49] Taylor Kruse: [00:54:49] Yeah. And you can, you can also, you can take your shoes off and you know, portions of your training, not, not running necessarily. I just mean like gym stuff, mobility stuff. You can do it barefoot and you can start to, you can start to, you know, create smarter feet that way. 

[00:55:03] Rich Ryan: [00:55:03] Yeah. Or even if you have a minimal pair that you might not be able to run in, if you have the V the Vibrams or a pair of murals or something like that, you probably use those for strength instead.

[00:55:12] Right. cool. How are you on time? 

[00:55:15] Taylor Kruse: [00:55:15] I'm okay, rich. I'm 

[00:55:17] Rich Ryan: [00:55:17] cool. It's cool to keep rolling for awhile. 

[00:55:18] Taylor Kruse: [00:55:18] Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. 

[00:55:20] Rich Ryan: [00:55:20] So another part of the, with running, you know, people think legs and we've, we've covered that. It's more than that and it's all one fluid motion. But also. Breathing. And that's a barrier for people who are getting into it at first and they just think, Oh my, my breathing is bad.

[00:55:36] Or they have a tough time keeping up and they're not, and it might be one of the first things to go for them, and that's kind of their indicator of fatigue might just be shortness of breath. And I know that you guys do stress stress, the importance of, of breath training. And that's another one. It's kind of like the first conversation we have as far as the, the decision making one, like you don't know how other people breathe.

[00:56:00] You don't really have a measurement verse for what you've done and how your breathing is. So how, how do you guys assess breathing? How can you train the actual. Like process of breathing. Well, 

[00:56:16] Taylor Kruse: [00:56:16] yeah, it's so important. It makes up such a large part of what we do with people. It has huge, huge ramifications in really reaches into every facet of your life because it's a, it's a main, it's, it's of importance for survival.

[00:56:31] So, you know, if you're breathing poorly, it's definitely, it's definitely going to shut you down in a number of different ways. And when we assess breathing. First thing I'm doing is I'm just watching to see how a person, is moving as they breathe. Whether that's like on an intake process, if I'm, if I'm just meeting with them in person, I'm literally looking to see if they're what we would call an upper chest breather.

[00:56:53] And those are the folks that generally build tension in their shoulders and neck. And when they inhale, they're up here with it. Rather than down at say, the lower ribs where you just, you really don't see anything right? When, when you, when you evaluate somebody who's breathing reasonably well, you don't see a lot of movement.

[00:57:10] If you see any, it's pretty low in the, in the rib cage. Area. And then we see those, those upper chest breathers where it's very obviously up in the shoulders. So just based on, on what it looks like when a person's breathing, you can actually gather a lot of information. people who are upper chest breathers are generally.

[00:57:31]over-breathing which is really common with, with people, meaning that they're essentially breathing too quickly, their rate of respiration is faster than we would like it. And that kind of goes with that, that high stress, right type of breathing. And, and when people are not under that stress and they're not an upper chest breather, they're a little bit more chill and relaxed with it.

[00:57:54] And you see good breathing practices, through the nose. Versus people who are upper chest breathers and actually, hyperventilating. You'll see that they are a, what we call a mouth breather. And those are people that are just breathing through their mouth, more, time than, they should. Right?

[00:58:12] So when you, when you get into like intense athletic activities, there's definitely going to be a point where breathing through the mouth happens. And I don't look at it as a bad thing at all. But if you're breathing through the mouth during your day to day routine, when you're not training or when you're doing things that don't require a lot of energy, that's the type of dysfunctional breathing that we don't want to see.

[00:58:34] And a lot of that also is important to, to identify while a person is sleeping. it's really important that people are nasal breathing in and out through the nose when they're asleep. And as we know, many people are not doing that. And there could be lots of different reasons for it. But, so those are, those are, you know, the more simple ways to look at breathing.

[00:58:56] And, and then we actually, then we have actual functional assessments where we ask people to do different breathing exercises and then we score them. You know, for time and that kind of thing. 

[00:59:07] Rich Ryan: [00:59:07] Yeah. The, the, well, I've, I've done a little bit of work on this and while sleeping, it's interesting because you can't, you're not conscious.

[00:59:14] You don't really have any choice. 

[00:59:15] Taylor Kruse: [00:59:15] I spent, 

[00:59:16] Rich Ryan: [00:59:16] when I first started, I was taping my mouth shut and just sleep. And like. It's like you're fine, and then you wake up and you go into the mirror and then you look at yourself with your mouth taped shut. And it's pretty weird. 

[00:59:27] Taylor Kruse: [00:59:27] It's 

[00:59:27] Rich Ryan: [00:59:27] pretty weird, but it, but it's definitely helpful.

[00:59:29] Definitely helps train that and what the signs are like having like a wet mouth when you wake up as opposed to that dryness is much better. Right. And you mentioned over-breathing and like a negative sense. And intuitively it's like, okay, cool. Like how can you over breathe? Like why wouldn't that be better if I'm getting more oxygen and if I'm breathing at a higher rapid rate and in doing, and shouldn't I be able to do more with the breath I'm breathing and like, why is over-breathing bad?

[00:59:57] Taylor Kruse: [00:59:57] So over over-breathing essentially, disrupts the, the balance of, of gas exchange from oxygen to CO2. And when somebody is over-breathing, they are actually kind of hyper oxygenating themselves and they're not building as much CO2 and CO2 is actually. the really important gas that is, largely involved in so many different internal processes in our body.

[01:00:26] So, breathing's important for, for everybody and for athletes because it affects the chemistry and the pH of our body. So if we're hyperventilating during our day, and I don't mean hyperventilating, like, you know, it's really, yeah. I mean, it's very subtle. It's very subtle. They're just breathing faster than they should, and it's probably through the mouth.

[01:00:47]that changes the gas exchange and brings in more oxygen than we would actually like and disrupts the level of co two that we're building and th and that will negatively affect pH in the body and generally increase our sympathetics. Which is more, think more like fight flight. Right? And so when our sympathetics, go up, that generally leads to, you know, potentially increased levels of pain, increased levels of stress and poor performance eventually, right?

[01:01:22] Not being able to sustain the quality of movement that we're after. 

[01:01:26] Rich Ryan: [01:01:26] Interesting. I'm also thinking it increased stress. If you're in a sympathetic tire, like your sleep is probably worse. Definitely everything is just a little bit more on high end because I was going to ask, is there any type of acute feeling, because people probably know if they're, they probably haven't thought about it, but if they think about it for a day, they'd probably be okay.

[01:01:45] It does seem like I'm breathing more out of my mouth, or if they go for a jog for two minutes, they'll know. 

[01:01:50] Taylor Kruse: [01:01:50] So if you, if you go for a jog and that little warmup portion of your run. Requires you to already open your mouth, like we're talking like one minute, two minutes, three minutes into things, then you probably don't have a great CO2 tolerance and you're deviating towards the the mouth breathing pattern much, much faster than you should.

[01:02:10] So beginning your run with the nasal breathing is actually really effective for people. 

[01:02:14] Rich Ryan: [01:02:14] Hmm. That's a good way to practically apply it. Is it more of a tolerance issue or a, more of a skillset then, like when it comes to where you're breathing, like does it have to do with this huge tolerance or some of those tests that you measured where there's some sort of time associated with it or are people not able to like engage and fully breathe into their diaphragm?

[01:02:37] Taylor Kruse: [01:02:37] So it's, it's, there's a, it's, it's absolutely both of those things. So the skill of breathing is important because as you start to dive into some of the, like, more intense respiration work that we do, there's a, there's air hunger, the feeling of air hunger associated with it. So that's like, you want to breathe, but you know, you're not supposed to.

[01:02:56] We're trying to reduce. The rate of breathing and being able to handle air hunger is a skill like you, it's a sensation, and you learn how to deal with that sensation better the same way you would if you were just starting a new sport, 

[01:03:14] Rich Ryan: [01:03:14] like lactic tolerance, 

[01:03:15] Taylor Kruse: [01:03:15] let's say. It's even the same as like, okay, I just started playing soccer and I'm not used to getting kicked in the shin as much as I am.

[01:03:21] Like eventually that stuff, like those feelings just go away. 

[01:03:24] Rich Ryan: [01:03:24] It's just part of it. 

[01:03:26] Taylor Kruse: [01:03:26] And so when you start, when you start, doing respiration work, that requires you to change your breathing patterns, there's a lot of air hunger associated with it, and you have to get sensitized to that feeling. And that's a 

[01:03:35] Rich Ryan: [01:03:35] skill.

[01:03:37] Taylor Kruse: [01:03:37] And then there's other aspects that come into play as well. mobility is a huge one. So if you have an immobile ribcage, spine, whether it's your, your lower back, your mid back, or even your neck. Your shoulders. Those are all areas of the body that need to be able to move because good breathing actually requires those joint areas to be able to move energy through them and, and and the, and, and move as you inhale.

[01:04:03] Exhale. 

[01:04:05] Rich Ryan: [01:04:05] And that makes sense. And something that else that is, might seem silly, but it happens to me when I'm breathing outside. My nose will start to run and it's, is that something that will dissipate because just the nose, we're in the clear, clear itself out, because 

[01:04:19] Taylor Kruse: [01:04:19] that generally generally goes away over time, 

[01:04:22] Rich Ryan: [01:04:22] so it's just going to be just kind of suck it up and get some snot on your face for a little bit.

[01:04:26] Taylor Kruse: [01:04:26] Yeah, I mean, that's, that's one of the common complaints that we hear from people when they start doing a lot of nasal breathing work. That usually does get better. 

[01:04:34] Rich Ryan: [01:04:34] And that's good to know because people might think like, Oh, my nose is running. And again, there's no reference for other people that are doing this and what the process is really like.

[01:04:41] It's like, well, it'll get better. Just kind of keep on with it. cool. So just the last thing I want to touch on, because it's something that is very much part of OCR and I'm running to some extent, is just balanced training and the way to kind of go about that. And, and. You know, you see when people are considered doing like balance training is they're putting themselves on like an unstable platform, like one of those flipped over Bosu balls.

[01:05:10]and just doing things where it's like w w wobbly and you can kind of feel yourself kind of grab onto whatever you can, or even like a a Slack line type of thing. But it is this ideal for bouncing it. Does that really help practical application or how would you recommend people go about training their balance?

[01:05:28] Taylor Kruse: [01:05:28] All right, so, the first thing that people need to know about balance training is that it's actually different from stability. I actually look at stability as the outcome of balance. So an example of like a stability exercise would be, maybe you're, you're standing on one leg and you're stabilizing a load.

[01:05:46] And you're not really moving through space very much, but you're just, you're just on. One leg or whatever it is, and you have to stabilize that. And to me, and through the work that we do, balance training is more about can you stabilize your body as your head and your eyes move. So we actually say that balance training requires.

[01:06:09] Your head and your eyes to move because we have different reflexes that are tied into our vestibular function. So remember that the inner ear that when stimulated our vestibular system, senses movement and helps to calibrate our muscle tone and help us adjust our body based on where our vestibular system thinks we are, how we're moving, which way is up, all of those things.

[01:06:34] So for, For understanding more about the function of the inner ear. It's essentially measuring accelerations of head and neck movement through space, and then also body movement like up and down, side to side. And we need the movement of our body or our head and neck to send those signals to the nerves in the inner ear.

[01:07:00] And then our brain has a better idea where we are in space. So that means you have to move your head in eyes at some point when you want to train your balance. And because we want to be as specific as possible, practicing balanced drills on stable ground has more application. Then say on an unstable surface, like something like a Bosu ball or a physio ball, and it's not that the Bosu ball and physio ball is bad and you should never do it because actually a lot of fun, what we see, and there's like research and stuff that you can dig into that tells you that, you know, after like six weeks or 12 weeks of, you know, working on an unstable surface.

[01:07:41] There may have actually been possible reductions in overall, like muscular output or, reduced, balance, things like that. And, and here's why that happens. If you stand on a Bosu ball. Or a Slack line. It's the body under head that is moving, but your head and your neck generally stay in the same place, and that's a different reflex.

[01:08:05] That's called a righting reflex, so the body's coming out from underneath you, your head and neck stays right where it is as you adjust. To stabilize your body. Hmm. That is a different reflex from what we generally want to be training as athletes because we want our head and neck to do the moving through space so that we can stimulate the inner ear.

[01:08:28] If I move my head and neck, my vestibular system upregulates and gets information. If my head and neck do not move, the opposite happens. There's less information. It's down-regulated. So you could be doing a lot of unstable surface training, thinking you're training your balance, but you're really only training one reflex and it's not the most prolific reflex that we need for pretty much almost all athletic movement.

[01:08:56] Rich Ryan: [01:08:56] And that's, yeah, it seems like it's a different skill. It's like you have 

[01:08:58] Taylor Kruse: [01:08:58] a different skill entirely, and there's going to be some activities that. Getting comfortable on an on a more unstable surface might make sense, right? But if you think about it as an athlete, we want to be able to put force into the ground and, and that ground is generally always stable underneath us.

[01:09:20] It's, the world is not moving underneath us. It's us moving on top of the world. 

[01:09:26] Rich Ryan: [01:09:26] Right? And like, yeah, all I can think of is a practical, useful. It'd be like maybe an Ninja warrior or something where people have to jump onto things like the various small math, like that might be an example of where you might want to use that.

[01:09:38] Taylor Kruse: [01:09:38] Yeah. 

[01:09:38] Rich Ryan: [01:09:38] So what would be an example of balance training then for, for people to use? 

[01:09:44] Taylor Kruse: [01:09:44] Okay, this is a, this is a cool expo exploration for some of the listeners to go through on, on their own, like in their next training session. So you want to learn about how the vestibular system has an influence on our movement.

[01:09:55] You can get into any position that you want to bounce. That could be standing on one leg, that could be in a lunge. And what you can do is first with your eyes open, you want to move your head very quickly and then balance in that position. So let's say I'm standing on only my right leg very quickly, I'm going to move my head to the left and I'm going to hold that position and I'm going to see if I can balance.

[01:10:19] Okay. I might do the same to the right. I might do the same up, might do the same down. Okay. And then you can repeat the same thing with your eyes closed. So as soon as you remove the visual information, everything gets harder. And you have to rely more on proprioception and inner ear function. So a really simple vestibular drill that can help you.

[01:10:41]improve your, your balance and your stabilization is you get yourself into a tricky position to balance with your eyes open and your eyes closed and you move your head really quickly into a position and stay there. And then the next iteration of that would be can you move your head continuously back and forth, whether it's left right up, down.

[01:11:02] With your eyes open and then eventually with your eyes closed and still maintain your balance. And those are two really cool iterations that, teach people right away how important our visual sense is. Cause as soon as you remove it, everything's harder. But then you also get a sense for how your inner ear is telling your body where you are and helping you stabilize.

[01:11:24] Because when you move your head very quickly like that. It's really hard to maintain your position. 

[01:11:30] Rich Ryan: [01:11:30] Even just closing your eyes and bouncing on one foot is hard. Like do this and close your eyes, and you instantly like, and even thinking about moving your head in that position is just, it will take some work.

[01:11:43] Taylor Kruse: [01:11:43] It does. 

[01:11:44] Rich Ryan: [01:11:44] And is it, is it a slow process for people typically, or is it, 

[01:11:48] Taylor Kruse: [01:11:48] no, actually, I mean, you see, here's the thing, like almost nobody's actually training their balance, right? We really look at it like. Yeah, we do stabilization exercises in the gym and you know, we do dynamic things and that has a vestibular component to it.

[01:12:02] When you're moving through space, your inner ear is helping you, you know, balance no matter what you're doing. But in terms of isolating balance training, very few people are actually doing that. So it's a very novel stimulus. And if you start practicing that. Pretty frequently, you'll probably see results, relatively fast.

[01:12:24] Rich Ryan: [01:12:24] And just the last thing that really. Like sticks out in my mind and from the athletes who I coach, you know, it's mostly runners, obstacle course, race athletes. So juggling several things can be hard for people on a railroad schedule. And like we mentioned before, people have a tough time moving their pelvis and their spine just cause they don't move that much.

[01:12:44] There's not much time. So when they're training for a marathon, they're going to go run six miles and that's their time to train. So. How, how does this fit in and how, how cause to me, like having you explain it, it sounds like this is kind of the foundation, right? But a lot of times it's people are training for a result or for some sort of end goal.

[01:13:07] And so they want to focus on the one thing that's going to hit that they know will help them with that. So how do you, where do you put this in line as far as like how to fit this in to training kids or how, how would you. You know, more or less convinced someone that this is what they need before they start any of that other stuff.

[01:13:26] Taylor Kruse: [01:13:26] Are we talking primarily about like, is there any particular thing you're talking about, like mobility versus balanced training or anything like that? 

[01:13:33] Rich Ryan: [01:13:33] I guess just, yeah. Say let's say mobility because that was a really good practical example you gave of people coming back doing mobile mobility through their feet and ankles and as like their cool down.

[01:13:44]Whereas most of the time I'm guessing people finish that run, take a shower, and then go pick up their kids or something. Right? So like how, where does this fit in? Like how can, like how would you explain it to somebody? 

[01:13:55] Taylor Kruse: [01:13:55] So yeah, so mobility is definitely the thing that I, I would encourage people to take on as soon as possible as like the, the highest pay off thing.

[01:14:04] They get integrated into their practice and it integrates in, in your warmup and your cool-down so easily. It could be as easy as a or simple as a couple of exercises, you know, to start making sure that you go through some of that joint mobility work before you run. Because what generally happens is. you start to move your joints.

[01:14:25] That sets the stage for better quality movement. And then when you go and run, you're now loading your body under the influence of better functioning joints. And over time we see that people adapt to that. There's a tissue remodeling process that happens and energy starts moving through the body more efficiently.

[01:14:45] And it's a, it can be really high payoff. So I always encourage people to start with their joint mobility. At the, at the beginning of what it is that they're going to do. Cause then they're going to load their body and get the most out of it, and then at the end is a great way to then decompress the joints and recover from what you did.

[01:15:03] Rich Ryan: [01:15:03] Hmm. That's great. That's awesome advice that people can put in. It's a matter of carving out time and making sure you're sitting into it. Yep. So this is fantastic. I like, my mind is blown. I'm like going in circles, like trying to make sure I get everything down, but we got it recorded so we can always 

[01:15:19] Taylor Kruse: [01:15:19] go back.

[01:15:19] Rich Ryan: [01:15:19] So, cool. I'll let you go cause I really appreciate your time. And where can people find 

[01:15:23] Taylor Kruse: [01:15:23] you. so our website is a cruise, elite.com, K R USC, then the word elite. And you can also find us on Instagram, same, same handle, cruise elite. And you know, we, we post on Instagram pretty frequently. Different mobility exercises, breathing exercises, educational concepts, things like that.

[01:15:42] So that's where you can find us. And, yeah, so. 

[01:15:46] Rich Ryan: [01:15:46] Very cool. Yeah, I'll make sure to post everything in the show notes. And you have like the blog you have on your website is sick with all this stuff too, like a lots of really cool articles and videos. And are you, do you have a YouTube page as well then?

[01:15:58] Taylor Kruse: [01:15:58] Yeah, we have a YouTube page. We probably don't, we don't put as much on YouTube. Instagram seems to be our main platform, 

[01:16:05] Rich Ryan: [01:16:05] so yeah. So I'll make sure to link everything here. Once I press stop on this, it will stay on this piece. So I appreciate you guys listening. Taylor, I appreciate you popping on and this is great.

[01:16:15] Taylor Kruse: [01:16:15] Thanks for having me. It's a lot of fun.