Cassidy Nicholas (Watton) is the program director for Epic Interval Training, professional OCR athlete, and new mother.
We do a deep dive into training philosophy and how to apply the Epic principles.
In the episode we cover:
Follow Cassidy on IG @Epiccassidy
Follow along Reinforced Running
Apply for One-on-one Coaching here
IG Rich - @reinforced_running_rich & Josh @Ja_shua_ried
Twitter @ReinforcedRun
Join our private training group on facebook here.
Get your free Guide to faster running @ reinforcedrunning.com/runfaster
Cassidy Nicholas (Watton) is the program director for Epic Interval Training, professional OCR athlete, and new mother.
We do a deep dive into training philosophy and how to apply the Epic principles.
In the episode we cover:
Follow Cassidy on IG @Epiccassidy
Follow along Reinforced Running
Apply for One-on-one Coaching here
IG Rich - @reinforced_running_rich & Josh @Ja_shua_ried
Twitter @ReinforcedRun
Join our private training group on facebook here.
Get your free Guide to faster running @ reinforcedrunning.com/runfaster
Rich Ryan: [00:00:00] Yes. What's up? Thanks for joining the reinforced running podcast. My name is Rick Ryan. I will be your host today, and today's an awesome episode with Cassidy. Nicholas Cassidy is an old G and OCR space and is multiple winner of pretty much all of the OCR things, a fantastic athlete, and she's also the program director at Epic interval training.
[00:00:26] So. In the episode, we do a deep dive on how to use interval training to have a well balanced fitness, the number one piece of equipment that you should have and know how to use. And we, Cassie is a new mother, so we talk about training during pregnancy and postpartum. So there's a lot of great takeaways on how you can structure your training and how to use intervals to get super fit.
[00:00:46] You will enjoy it so far. We can start to hit us up with five stars on iTunes. Only take a second. It'd be a lot cooler if you did. What movie is that from? Hook me up. Alright, so in the beginning I called Cassidy Cassidy Nichols. It's because I'm a dummy. Her name was Cassidy Wotton. It is now Cassidy Nicholas and we are on.
[00:01:13] Cassie Nichols is in the house today. What's going on?
[00:01:15] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:01:15] Nothing much. Just you giving me a little hour break from the baby. The husband has taken over.
[00:01:22] Rich Ryan: [00:01:22] It's a strong excuse, you would say yes. Just like, yeah, let's make it two hours, three hour long, Epic podcast. So that's cool. So yeah, I'm really excited to dive into some of your journey with, with having a baby recently in your training, and we got going on an Epic, but I have a couple of like just random questions that I am curious about.
[00:01:41] So are you ready?
[00:01:42] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:01:42] All right,
[00:01:43] Rich Ryan: [00:01:43] cool. So what is your favorite genre of music?
[00:01:46] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:01:46] Oh God, this is. Really terribly generic. My past self who's all into like indie music and non-mainstream would hate myself now, but I have to say EDM just because I'm a fitness instructor and it's just, there's nothing better to work out too.
[00:02:05] Rich Ryan: [00:02:05] It's just so fun and it just, when you put it on like the energy, you know what you're getting, you know it's going to build up and people are just going to be okay with
[00:02:13] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:02:13] it for sure. It's happy stuff.
[00:02:16] Rich Ryan: [00:02:16] It is. Yeah. It's still not complicated, but it's good, fun, fun music. Was it like, did you get into it because of becoming a fitness instructor, or was it like one moment where you were like, Oh, okay, this is cool?
[00:02:28] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:02:28] Oh, absolutely. I was actually, when I became a spin instructor, when I was first getting into fitness, at first I was about, personal training, and then I slowly got into group fitness, teaching, TRX class, teaching, spinning and different, yeah. More niche things before I got into Epic. but yeah, definitely from teaching spin and then as it evolved, any other fitness class.
[00:02:51] Rich Ryan: [00:02:51] Yeah. I was the same way with the fitness being in fitness instructor. I taught when there was a kind of a hybrid was more like more or less like a Barry's. So like the cardio room would be straight up EDM stuff. And still to this day on like my Spotify discover weekly, it is just like the straight up hardcore EDM stuff and I still go down.
[00:03:08] It's great.
[00:03:09] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:03:09] I'm glad you're not judging me too much then.
[00:03:11] Rich Ryan: [00:03:11] No, I'm into it. I love it. so if you could only eat three foods for the rest of your life. What would they be?
[00:03:18] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:03:18] Oh gosh. rice, avocado and peanut butter.
[00:03:25] Rich Ryan: [00:03:25] Nice
[00:03:27] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:03:27] to have them all together.
[00:03:30] Rich Ryan: [00:03:30] Now, would you have to have specific drinks then? Because the peanut butter alone. Well, I guess if when you do mix it in the rice, I've done that. I've definitely mixed peanut butter and rice. It's not awesome, but it's, yeah,
[00:03:43] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:03:43] it's just, I mean, I'm thinking more like survival mode.
[00:03:45] I'm not thinking like as much, like probably the fun answer of like things that taste the best. But, I think you could survive pretty well off of those three things and be like pretty fit and healthy.
[00:03:57] Rich Ryan: [00:03:57] I agree. I'm in, I'm in on all of those. Especially the rice for the rice. When the pandemic started hitting, at least around here, it was hard to come by.
[00:04:07] Did you guys, do you have a tough time finding rice?
[00:04:09] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:04:09] Yeah, well, I didn't go to a grocery store forever because I just had a baby when all this hit the fan, so, but yes, I heard that there was no rice
[00:04:17] Rich Ryan: [00:04:17] or you Jasmine rice, you like
[00:04:19] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:04:19] white. Sushi rice. Yes. So what? I don't really know what the different difference is.
[00:04:24] It's white rice. I imagine it's like sticks together more. But I make white rice sushi rice with, I make it with coconut oil
[00:04:32] Rich Ryan: [00:04:32] and it's delish I'll try it cause I never ever got done the sushi. So I go pretty much straight Jasmine. So I'll have to have to go some sushi rice
[00:04:39] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:04:39] didn't make Jasmine yesterday though.
[00:04:41] And it's good. I discriminate.
[00:04:43] Rich Ryan: [00:04:43] Good. Good, good. so if you had one go to workout, like what is your favorite workout, would you say?
[00:04:49]Cassidy Nicholas : [00:04:49] my mind goes to all of our, like, signature type Epic workouts. So we have a different kind of interval for every day of the week, but it would be an interval workout with eight movements, 40 seconds on, 20 seconds off for four rounds.
[00:05:03] And, It would be probably our performance interval, which combines, it's like athletic and unconventional based movement.
[00:05:11] Rich Ryan: [00:05:11] Cool. Yeah. And then is it just, are they, I've seen some of the videos and I do want to dive into quite a bit about that. Is it, there's always different workout equipment pieces as well.
[00:05:23] Are they typically body weight?
[00:05:25] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:05:25] You can do Epic. With just body weight because it's a, it's a whole fitness philosophy, right? It's if it, if it depended on a certain amount of equipment, it would be a pretty flawed system. Right? Right. However, when you can add some more fun things, it would be great at the minimum, I think.
[00:05:43] You can do an excellent job, which is what we're doing on zoom right now with our gym, since we're not obviously in session in the gym, is body weight and a kettlebell. I think that you can get really far with just those two things. But to answer your question in the gym setting, Epic, yeah, we're always based in body weight, but then we add, kettlebells, dumbbells, we have like a rig system with monkey bars and pull up bars.
[00:06:04] Soft bio boxes, med balls, and some resistance bands and suspension trainers, and that's pretty much the base of it.
[00:06:13] Rich Ryan: [00:06:13] Nice. yeah, like, so I want to dive into that a little, like quite a bit more in detail about how that whole thing works together because I know there's the system behind it and I'm really interested in that.
[00:06:24] But, first, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?
[00:06:28] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:06:28] Oh, yikes. That's a tough one.
[00:06:40] I don't know. I'm going to have to do this like a speed round. I'm gonna have to skip and come back to that one. I can't think of anything.
[00:06:45] Rich Ryan: [00:06:45] We'll skip. We'll skip it. I'll remind you later. But, so cool. We'll, we'll just keep things rolling. So for the people listening once, just tell them a little bit about yourself, who you are as a coach and athlete and what you got going on at Epic.
[00:06:58] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:06:58] All right, well, my name is Cassidy Nicholas. I've got married last year sometime, so formerly known as Cassidy Watson. If you may or may not know me by that. I grew up in Connecticut. I went to school at Pepperdine in Malibu, California, and. I was always into sports and athletics, mostly like sports, sports, like basketball was my jam, but I did cross country and cheque to stay in shape for basketball.
[00:07:24] And, in college I got more into just that turned into just a love for fitness because what do you do if you're no longer an organized sports? and I found CrossFit and CrossFit was. Very new. It was more of like an underground movement where you go to crossfit.com and yeah, main site workouts every day and do them in the park with my college boyfriend or at the college gym.
[00:07:47] Rich Ryan: [00:07:47] What you resist then, was
[00:07:48] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:07:48] that like 2000 I graduated high school in 2007 so it was. Eight or nine 2009
[00:07:56] Rich Ryan: [00:07:56] yeah, that's about before, I think, I haven't heard of, I think I started hearing about it like 2010 so the first time I even came across a gym. But anyway, so you're doing the main site workouts.
[00:08:06] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:08:06] So that got me into fitness, and then I spent a year after college in Wyoming.
[00:08:13] Like doing the whole ski bum life and I got super out of shape, moved back to Malibu afterwards, and that's when I got into more fitness as a career at, I had gotten a Spanish degree in college, totally useless when I could have just come back and got a $500 personal training degree and earned more money than my.
[00:08:34] For my, for my $200,000 Spanish degree. But
[00:08:38] Rich Ryan: [00:08:38] I mean, you're in Florida,
[00:08:39] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:08:39] right? Miami. I can speak it conversationally. I'm sure I could speak it a lot better if I needed to. If I moved anywhere for like, you know, any Spanish speaking country, I would pick it right back up even more. So, yes, I'm, I'm competent, but for having spent that much money on it, I don't want to talk about it.
[00:08:57]but anyway, got my personal training certification when I moved back to Malibu. And started working at this mom and pop gym in Malibu called Malibu fitness. And like I was telling me for, with the music, I got into teaching a little bit of group fitness, but at this time I was also into CrossFit on my own.
[00:09:16] But like when I trained on my own, after I did my clients, I was like crossed all the way. I would either do it at my Malibu gym or go over to my CrossFit gym, which was in the town over. and then, I knew of Epic and Alexander Nicholas, my now husband. Through, through OCR. I got into Spartan race also about the same time as, as that I met Hunter McEntire.
[00:09:39] I don't know if you know this part of my story, but I met him, in Malibu. We were working at the same gym and he got me into Spartan race. We dated for a few years. So we, yeah, so I was in a Spartan race simultaneously, Spartan race protein. So that kind of all happened at the same time, fitness and OCR.
[00:09:57] But I knew Alex and I knew of Epic, just through, cause Alex also was racing OCR. So few years later, moved to Miami, started working at Epic, worked at, Epic in New York city for a little while and then in back. That was like a big, fast forward on that last part, but pretty much ever since I found Epic fell in love with that.
[00:10:18] It was hard for me to let go of my barbells, my powerlifting and crossed it. But then I, when I realized, and I kept doing Epic workouts and I felt better, I was stronger, leaner, stronger for my body weight, a stronger for what I needed to do. And I didn't feel like crap after every single workout like I did during CrossFit.
[00:10:36] I eventually totally dropped it and has been in love ever since. And so, Oh, just get it. Bring it to present. Right now I would say that I'm, I help run Epic as a, we used to be a franchise, but now we're a licensing program, so. You can open an Epic, you can open your own Epic interval training facility, open a whole gym, or you could run Epic out of your CrossFit gym, run Epic out of any current space you have.
[00:11:03]so I work on that end. I'm the programming director, so I direct all programming and coaching for the company. And that's it. Like I was telling you, we do have a local gym that I've been a part of here, but due to Kobe 19, we are discontinuing our, that gym, continuing with it online for the time being.
[00:11:24] Rich Ryan: [00:11:24] For sure. And, yeah, we talked about that a little bit offline and, just kind of where you guys will end up next and I'm sure it will be something great, but just an unfortunate circumstance that a lot of, a lot of us are just going to be running into for sure. so when it comes to the difference in CrossFit and say, Epic interval, and that's something that is in the title of the, of the company, right?
[00:11:43] It's Epic interval training. w w. And when people come in to Epic, are they expecting it to be CrossFit or how do you kind of differentiate the two things? Because from the outside looking in, like, you know, we know CrossFit because we know it's like Olympic lifts and some powerlifts and like it is a barbell.
[00:11:58] It's like dirty garage stuff. But like. How do you differentiate something like that to like Epic?
[00:12:06] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:12:06] That's a great question. We get that all the time. Lot of people walk in and say, is this CrossFit? And first thing I ask them is, what do you know about CrossFit? And usually they don't really know what CrossFit is.
[00:12:15] They just have seen, Oh, it's a big empty space, an unconventional looking gym with, Functional equipment and they're in like a box looking area, so yeah. Then anyway, the main, the sink differences physically when you walk in, you'll see we don't have barbells, so we are weighted. Our load that we add is 99% of the time going to be a kettlebell.
[00:12:41] We've just started incorporating some dumbbells, which I actually love as well. we actually do barefoot training, so all of our gyms are barefoot. That's just kind of like a little side side note. We do it on soft MMA mats. That's kind of a whole other story. and then it's interval training. So what people don't, who asked me that, like I said, who don't really understand CrossFit.
[00:13:01] You have your wads, you have your strength component, and then you do your conditioning or your wad. And. It's based in gymnastics, power lifting, Olympic lifting, and you work four rounds or four time, right? So Epic is all interval training, always going to be interval training, set amount of work, set, amount of rest.
[00:13:25] So it's interval training. It's always eight stations, and we have three levels to every movement. So that's the main staples of Epic. All intervals, eight stations, three levels, all intervals. So that's our, the base of what we do.
[00:13:41] Rich Ryan: [00:13:41] Cool. And so would it, when you say intervals, and I feel like people would have a tough time differentiating like an interval workout from, say like an AMRAP,
[00:13:52] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:13:52] right?
[00:13:54] It's always going to be set amount of work, set, amount of risk, 40 seconds on, 40 seconds on, 30 seconds on, 15 seconds off, something like that.
[00:14:01] Rich Ryan: [00:14:01] Hmm. And was it, what is the thought behind the, equipment then? Because I noticed that you guys do have, you know, usually like rec bags and kettlebells, and so why not, barbells or is it, is that a function of just people's ability or is it.
[00:14:18] Well.
[00:14:20] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:14:20] So Alex, my husband started Epic in 2012 in New York city. And he started it because he was training martial arts, like super, super into martial arts. And his instructor was kind of down on his and couldn't make his rent. And he's like, Hey, what if we go in on this all run into strength and conditioning portion?
[00:14:37] And you, You know, keep running your MMA, and that's where the barefoot thing came in. It was in an MMA gym, so it was all barefoot to start a week. We carried it through because of all the awesome benefits of barefoot training, but I think the whole idea was just honestly, the functionality from the equipment.
[00:14:55] He decided to add it. Even though Alex has a background of a collegiate football, for some reason, for whatever reason, he didn't. I think that that was necessary to put in when we added it. So I think because he was doing martial arts, so I'm based in body weight and mobility and functionality, as kind of the root of where we came from.
[00:15:16] And I, I think that is why, but moving forward, yeah. To me, the general public. I think Olympic lifting and power lifting is great for sports, but for general physical fitness, especially when you're trying, you have, you want to capture a lot of people or be able to get a lot of people fit. It's just so advanced, especially in a group setting, to teach people to throw a barbell over their head, especially when.
[00:15:46] Barbell start at 35 for women, 45 for men. That's a lot of weight for a lot of people. Even if you're like, Oh, just use the bar. Like that's what they tell you when you first come in. Like you're not gonna be able to walk the first day if you're doing even 35 pounds squats over and over and over again. So for many reasons, it's interesting.
[00:16:02] No one's ever asked me like that. Like, why did we not add them? It's kind of not even like a question, but
[00:16:09] Rich Ryan: [00:16:09] why would we,
[00:16:10] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:16:10] yeah. Yeah. But I love kettlebells because. You can their ability to rotate. So to me, you, when you go from a clean, say a clean, you rotate from the clean to the rack to overhead. There's all this rotation that your shoulder is getting that you wouldn't get if you're locked into a barbell.
[00:16:28] And then of course there's a conditioning portion where you're doing anything ballistic, anything swinging, anything powered from the hips, you're automatically getting an awesome conditioning portion. A portion to that, which you can get, they call it barbell conditioning. You can rip out a bunch of light snatches, but,
[00:16:45] Rich Ryan: [00:16:45] but yeah, there's, it makes sense because there's a clear limitation on the amount of movement and mobility that it takes for a barbell.
[00:16:52] Like the path needs to kind of be linear and straight up and down. Well, for barbell, you, you can't get that, get it out in front of you and pull it back into your body. Like it's just not an efficient way to use a barbell and six very specific ways, like up and down, like in your little box.
[00:17:09] Are unbelievably popular right now. I don't know about you, but I've been trying to go on like rogue or kettlebell Kings, trying to grab a heavier kettlebell, like there's no chance. No way. I'll be able to get one. So
[00:17:19] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:17:19] people are buying,
[00:17:20] Rich Ryan: [00:17:20] no, no kettlebells available. Even the only one you could get is like a 208 pound kettlebell.
[00:17:27] I haven't worked my way there, but I know it's good to know that it's there if I, you know, get real full. But, So people are using these at home, right? Because they're, they, they're, they don't take up too much space. They're super versatile, like you mentioned. So when people are using these, and in your experience seeing all these people, like what are some mistakes or kind of pitfalls that people might do right away when they have the kettlebells are kind of like foolproof with that?
[00:17:51] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:17:51] That's a great question. And I kind of like poo-pooed on barbells for being too advanced for the general public. But chemicals can be a pretty advanced piece of equipment. So like you said, they're super hot right now, but a lot of people, I'll say, have you worked with kettlebells before? And they'll say, yes, but what they mean is they've just like held one and done a squat or held one and done a lunge.
[00:18:11] They're using it as a prop. They're using it to add load. Great. You can definitely use it that way. But like I mentioned, the reason that it's cool is because you can do swings, cleans and snatches and the budget and variations of that. and that's what's really, takes some good coaching to understand, especially if you're trying to do it virtually and trying to learn a kettlebell swing or a clean for the first time online.
[00:18:33] It's, it's, it's difficult to teach in person. So that does come back to Epic. We do have. Levels and progressions to everything that allow you to hop into a workout and get a great workout and not be so technical and like pick it up little by little as you come to class because we're always progressing you and you always have those levels and those options.
[00:18:52]But I kind of forgot the origin of the question. What would I tell people that the common mistakes at home, stuff like that.
[00:18:58] Rich Ryan: [00:18:58] Yeah. Just like if you were just to say walk somebody through something or if you're like, we're going to do three of these movements, which you can do, like, not like maybe you know, you're not doing a snatch or something like that.
[00:19:09] It's something that is pretty basic for people cause there's still an element of proficiency that needs to be taken place. So like what kind of things would you advise people toward or pull people away from. When they are using kettlebells,
[00:19:23] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:19:23] I would advise them to watch some good instruction before you try to do swings, cleans, snatches, things like that.
[00:19:31] You can watch my IgE TVs, you can watch. So I need to be making more of, my, I have an online program, I swear this is it. I hate like sell it, like selling things, but at the same time
[00:19:41] Rich Ryan: [00:19:41] it's like
[00:19:43] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:19:43] it is, it's via my Instagram and it is. Perfect. Progresses you. It's actually a 90 day thing, 30 days, body weight, 30 days kettlebells, 30 day suspension trainer, and day by day, it's a 16 minute interval workout.
[00:19:56] But I start the day, I start every day with a lesson. So we go deep dive like day one. Is a body weight squat, and I talk for maybe two minutes about a body weight squat. And really what people don't understand is you. And then the second day, I believe I talk about a hinge, right? And a lot of people, the general public, if you say, what's the difference between a squat and a hinge?
[00:20:16] They don't know. And there is no way in hell you're going to be able to use a kettlebell if you don't understand that difference. So it goes actually back to body weight. So I would advise people to get some good coaching and get a good program that teaches you from the beginning about the body, starting with body weight, then adding load.
[00:20:34] But, I wouldn't say like shy away from using kettlebells, but know that there's prerequisites. You need to know what a hinge is. We need to know what a dead lift is, and then to add the power of the hips and make it safe to do so. And a lot of people say it bothers her back. It's not a bad back exercise.
[00:20:48] That's just the way you're doing it. You need good coaching, so find a good coach. I think that would be my best.
[00:20:54] Rich Ryan: [00:20:54] Yeah. Because I totally agree with the hinge versus squat and like you'll see any given person at any gym, like, like a global gym doing a kettlebell swing where they are, you know, squatting down and using their shoulders and theirs, right?
[00:21:09] Yeah. The kettlebell is sagging
[00:21:10] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:21:10] down. Yeah,
[00:21:14] Rich Ryan: [00:21:14] totally. Yeah. And then they're like, Oh yeah, I've done kettlebell swings. It's like, well, you did a swing with a kettlebell. so, and when it comes to the animals, I mean, you guys say you do, it's intervals every day then, right? It's, and again, when it comes to just from the outside looking in and intervals and like, just thinking about what that is.
[00:21:35] And even though every like hit is something that most people are familiar with to, why's that. That is, you know, you go really hard. And then, you know, Tabata is an example of the 40%, 40 seconds on, 20 off, and by the end you're just dead. and so how do you guys put in like. program, the load and intensity without it being just the same kind of thing every day.
[00:22:00] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:22:00] I knew we were going from the get go with that. I love that. That's a great question. So a lot of people, when they think interval training, they say the next thing they say is like, hit hit is high intensity interval training. And we don't call ourselves Epic hits. Because not at all. Interval training is high intensity.
[00:22:18] So in order for this to be a sustainable program, we need to vary our intensity, right? So that's why we have a different interval for every day. Yes, that's relative. You're going to get a high heart rate and all of our classes, but we have performance interval, which generally works on that, like in between.
[00:22:35] To, to want to work to rest ratio. 40 on 20 off cardio interval or is our like is our one hit day a week? So that's like what we're going to do a Tabata like anything 30 seconds or less working time, 30 seconds or 20 seconds usually when you're doing your most explosive. Okay. That's our one true hit day where we want you to go balls to the walls and go to dark places.
[00:22:58] Rich Ryan: [00:22:58] What's the interject on the cardio? What's the rest like typically on one of those? Is it like one to one or like one to two?
[00:23:06] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:23:06] Two to one. so most common intervals, we do 30 on 15 off, five rounds or Tabatas 2010 for seven or eight. Okay.
[00:23:16] Rich Ryan: [00:23:16] Got it. So that's hitting it hard.
[00:23:17] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:23:17] Yeah. Yeah. So, but we, it's not sustainable to do that every day.
[00:23:22] I know a lot of people are in glutton for punishment and they would want like to crush themselves every day. but, that can be overdone. So that's why we kind of stretch it out. strength interval is our other one will work. moderate working time, like 40, 45 seconds. There's some different formats.
[00:23:38] We'll do it in like, AB like go back and forth between movements. but most traditionally we just do it circuit style, strength. So we actually ask people to slow it down, pick up heavier weight. If it's a body weight movement, we're going to be working on a nice long range of motion, strict pushup, same thing with pull-ups and stuff like that.
[00:23:58]so it's really up to the coach and the programming and the levels to dictate what the objective is and how, how you're going to treat that interval of the day and Durance interval we have every week, and that is any working time, 60 seconds or longer. So it's stretching out that work capacity. A core interval is kind of another in between are 40 45 seconds.
[00:24:19] But we take like a very dynamic and holistic approach to the core, of course, because as you probably know, a goblet squat is going to do way more for your core than a crunch. But we will do some also course specific. And then on the weekends we do combination in a role. So it's a great teacher of pacing cause we'll start off with endurance interval, then we'll go to that kind of middle of the road, four to 20 and then we'll do a high intensity.
[00:24:41] So you'll take the same movement. And you'll, it'll look totally different for the three different rounds because of the pacing and the intention of the interval. Hmm.
[00:24:51] Rich Ryan: [00:24:51] So what is the main benefit with changing it every single day? Like you said, people might be a glutton for punishment. but like what, why have you guys specifically.
[00:25:01] Made this decision being like, okay, we need to give this variance.
[00:25:05] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:25:05] I love these questions, and most people don't care this much about keep digging. No, that's a great question. So, let's take. What I'm going to answer this with like a backwards way, w w why we don't do another way. So another way, a lot of fitness places do it.
[00:25:24] The majority, I would say it's like upper day, lower day, or like back and legs, abs, abs and butts, blah, blah, blah. And we absolutely do not break it up by body part every single day as a full, as a full body workout. but we change, like I said, I think it's better to change the intention and the, Yeah.
[00:25:43] The intention and the pacing of the interval is what we're varying as opposed to the body part. So everyone wants variety every day. That's just what we, where our variety comes is in the pacing and in the intention, not in the body parts. You're always going to get a full body workout. You're always going to be working.
[00:26:01] Mobility, agility, strength and conditioning. And
[00:26:06] Rich Ryan: [00:26:06] I think that's a smart way to go about it. Cause there's like literature behind frequency of training and how that actually helps to build muscle and burn fat. And you're right, like at the gym that I used to work at, that I mentioned before, why I'm in the EDM is like, yeah, I had a triple a day arms as an abs day.
[00:26:22] You know, like that was something I had to program for and like it just doesn't make as much sense to me. To, to have to isolate that way, especially in an interval setting. I just, it doesn't quite seem
[00:26:34] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:26:34] to, yeah. I know it's extremely popular, but it makes no sense to me why you would like super set and keep hitting one muscle group so that it's super sore the next day.
[00:26:44] I know some people like that cause they associate that with progress. Yeah, there is some good soar, I guess.
[00:26:51] Rich Ryan: [00:26:51] But that's what they said. They were like, Oh, I'm sort of like in a good way. It's like, yeah,
[00:26:55] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:26:55] yeah. So your muscles are broken down to just the right amount. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that's, that's whole concept to me is a little backwards.
[00:27:09] And I think that after a workout you should feel good and not feel like crap
[00:27:14] Rich Ryan: [00:27:14] and yeah. And it's easier. For a gym to give that it's like, all, we're gonna just gonna pound legs today, and then when they leave, they're gonna be like, wow, that was a great workout. And kind of how you said about the core, it's like, all right, a goblet squat, or like, you know, bottoms up goblet squad that's going to work your core more than a crunch.
[00:27:30] But like if you do crunches or like bicycle and for 60 seconds, you're going to feel
[00:27:35] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:27:35] like it's working
[00:27:36] Rich Ryan: [00:27:36] your core more and be like, wow, it's a great AB workout. Like, man, really the squats were what I realized in just trying to give.
[00:27:43] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:27:43] People
[00:27:43] Rich Ryan: [00:27:43] what they perceive is what they need. and, and just kind of veiled in sweat and soreness
[00:27:50] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:27:50] and summarize the fitness business, especially the studio fitness business.
[00:27:55] Rich Ryan: [00:27:55] So, yeah, with that, how do you guys get buy in and like, is it something when people come in the door, do they know what that's going to be like? Are they, or is it just, once they try it, they're good to go because it is so much different. Like I said, like something like a Barry's or whatever, they're all that way.
[00:28:10] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:28:10] It's really tough, rich, because we do not fit in. We are, we're in this really awkward in between where, like you said, we're not the nitty gritty, dirty CrossFit box, but we're also not the flashy, sexy fitness studio with the lights and the models. And, The treadmills, even where you are automatically, you put someone on a treadmill, they're going to think they got a good workout because running.
[00:28:36] So we're right in this, in between place where we look like group fitness, but it's actually a thoughtful fitness program where we care about your progression of movement and your mobility and things like that. So it's not very sexy. It's not that sexy gym and it's, it's actually not that nitty gritty, Jim.
[00:28:54] I don't know. I used to not like when people automatically associated with CrossFit. What I do like about CrossFit is it's, there's programming. Okay. And in other gyms, there's like workouts. What I find is they throw a bunch of random movements together, and people get a good sweat. Hopefully they kept it sexy, you know?
[00:29:13] And, and there's not a lot of coaching going on, but we're right in between where. We're really, it's really fun and a welcoming group, fitness atmosphere, but we also bring that programming aspect, so it's a hard thing to market if that's what you're getting at. It's, it's tough. It's tough to get people to understand that, but the people who get it, Oh my gosh.
[00:29:34] First of all, you know when they get it and they love it and they're like. For life. You have them. And we have had people for, since Epic's inception in 2012 in New York city who have still been going every single day. So it takes a little bit longer to get it, I would say.
[00:29:51] Rich Ryan: [00:29:51] And from a business standpoint, that's really putting the.
[00:29:57] Client or the customer athlete first and like giving them something, a true product that is going to get them the best results. And you know, that's not always the easiest thing to market. It's not like the quick six week transformation situation or whatever that is. but getting that thoughtful programming is something that shines through and how much you care and how much you are putting into the actual program.
[00:30:17] And the coaching. Because that's, that's one thing I think cross it really has done well is, is the programming part and the attention to detail and going through form where it gets a bad rap because people, people do get hurt because like it's exercise for competition, but they really care more about form than any of like the studio fitness.
[00:30:34] Like when I was coaching at studio fitness, they had to pull me back from queuing and like helping almost. So like, no, no, no, no, no. Just keep this thing rolling. Turn that shit up like that. Right. I guess. And
[00:30:47] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:30:47] from,
[00:30:48] Rich Ryan: [00:30:48] so kind of coming back to the barefoot thing, because that is something else I think people would have an opportunity to do.
[00:30:54] Now I know I'm working out in my bare feet more because I'm at home, so it doesn't, it's not as weird. So like what are some of like the main benefits? I know it was kind of, brought up because of MMA, but what are. Because that has to be a conversation too. It's like, by the way, no shoes in here. I'm sure you had to have that conversation a lot too.
[00:31:13] Like what do you, what do you say to
[00:31:16] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:31:16] most people? So the thing from a business stand point, that last part you just said, when people are like, Oh. most people don't tell us to our faces like, Ew, that's gross. They just probably won't come back again. And that's something we've always thought of changing, or at least making an option.
[00:31:35] So actually, when we made the move from to, like I said, we made a move, or I dunno if I said this on or off the air, but it, we, we moved locations of our gym in January here in Miami, and we actually made it optional for the first time. It took a lot more mopping. But we wanted to find out are people not coming back because they think this is gross, even though it's ridiculous because shoes are way grosser cause they're carrying everything from the outside and we're mopping constantly and
[00:32:03] Rich Ryan: [00:32:03] just your feet.
[00:32:03] I always think it's like, well how, what are you doing with your feet later? Like,
[00:32:06] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:32:06] yeah. Yeah. So, from a business standpoint, that is interesting. We didn't really get a great chance to figure that out. Do a longterm study on that. Now. When people open epics there, since it's a license now, they have a lot more options and franchising, you know, you have to do it the way we do it and everything, but people can make their choice.
[00:32:29] Everyone has chosen to go barefoot, except for a couple of licensees, like one in Hawaii and one in SoCal are running the classes within a CrossFit. So they have shoes. But anyway, so the reason, some of the benefits. so it's the whole idea of like, you weren't born without shoes, and everyone kind of heard that through the Vibram.
[00:32:51]what'd he fad, I guess. But that kind of came and went because people, including me, slapped on those Vibram five finger shoes and hit the ground running hit. I did. I did it. It was right when that, when I was CrossFitting, so I was CrossFitting in Vibrams because
[00:33:06] Rich Ryan: [00:33:06] that was really nine 10 I think. I
[00:33:10] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:33:10] was like way ahead of my time saying, your feet kill you because you're pounding on pavement in bare feet, and that is the intention of shoes in the first place to protect your feet from the elements, however you need to give your feet.
[00:33:23] That playtime. So there's all these, all the sensory information you're getting from floor, hundreds of muscles and tendons and ligaments that get the chance to work and play. by going barefoot. And especially since we have soft MMA mats, we have soft plyo boxes, which are thinking. Every fitness center should see, no one should be taking skin off of their shins on a wooden file box, but they're way cheaper.
[00:33:45] So I get it. So that's it. So it's a safe environment for them to do. So, teaches people to move better, so they'll end up jumping and landing better rather than, you have these big cushions on your feet. You don't care how you land on a box or land on a broad jump because you have these big clunkers on you.
[00:34:03] But when you're in barefoot. You actually see how you need to absorb the shock. And so it helps you from the ground up, right? People have any sort of knee, hip, issues a lot of times ankle. It starts from the ground up, right? So. We've seen, and I've seen it myself, so many injuries healed just by going barefoot.
[00:34:20] Previous to being at Epic, I had a two year stint of plantar fasciitis, so I could not get rid of when to every expert did everything that you could Google, and nothing. But I just started working out at Epic and that's just, you know, 45 minutes a day where I'm. Barefoot and it went away. It's never to return.
[00:34:37] We have so many stories like that of ankle, knee, hip issues. so just giving you your feet, that kind of play time, per se is just, does wonders for the body and teaches you how to move better.
[00:34:52] Rich Ryan: [00:34:52] Hmm. Have you, do you like run in. Minimal shoes now or
[00:34:58] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:34:58] no? No, that's a good question. So if I'm like running right, which I don't really run, but
[00:35:05] Rich Ryan: [00:35:05] yeah,
[00:35:06] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:35:06] pavement or trail running.
[00:35:08] Bring on the cushion, like that's what it's, that's what they're made for to protect your feet from like from cement. Right. So I mean, I'm not like very strong either way. What are the big, the big ones, because I'm not like a hookah or a minimal, I'm like, whatever, new balance
[00:35:26] Rich Ryan: [00:35:26] or whatever.
[00:35:27] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:35:27] Yeah. So. No is the answer, but the idea is that if you give yourself that time every day, you strengthen your feet so that it's prepped for those situations.
[00:35:38] Rich Ryan: [00:35:38] It just makes sense to strengthen the feet to work. The actual. Foot, you know, and do all the things instead of just kind of do a prehab, rehab stuff like, you know, just grabbing with your toes or whatever they tell you to do when you have plantar fasciitis or all those little things you can do is like, well, this is a big dynamic area that you, that you can train in in multiple ways.
[00:36:00] And so you guys don't do anything like foot specific. It's just here are squats and then it just gets,
[00:36:05] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:36:05] we're just doing the workout barefoot.
[00:36:07] Rich Ryan: [00:36:07] Wow, that's awesome. And that is a Testament to it, and I think that's something that's as a reason to like really keep that because I don't know of any other gym that's like that.
[00:36:18] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:36:18] Yeah. We've had so many conversations, Alex and I about this and I'm like, no, I think we're still ahead of the trend. He's always wanted to try with shoes cause he thinks it scares people off. And I'm always like, no, we're so close. We're still ahead of it. Like people are going to be doing this more. But I mean ultimately we landed on trying it in our space and allowing people to have the option.
[00:36:38] But I'm with you. I think we should. Stick to it. It makes us unique and it is legitimately good for people
[00:36:45] Rich Ryan: [00:36:45] to bribe. Probably buy a bunch of those Vibrams now. Super cheap. I bet. Just spray him like at their bowling shoes.
[00:36:50] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:36:50] Just that's true.
[00:36:54] Rich Ryan: [00:36:54] Is that less gross like here if he wants to be less gross
[00:36:57] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:36:57] custom grippy socks.
[00:36:59] Rich Ryan: [00:36:59] Yeah. I was thinking that too. Cause they have a, they make you buy like at like maybe you're taking like a megaformer class
[00:37:06] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:37:06] or more a trampoline park.
[00:37:08] Rich Ryan: [00:37:08] Oh duh.
[00:37:10] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:37:10] They give you the sticky sticky socks.
[00:37:14] Rich Ryan: [00:37:14] I've actually never tried when
[00:37:17] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:37:17] things open. You don't have a, I have a four year old step son, so we do that type of thing quite yet.
[00:37:22] Rich Ryan: [00:37:22] Yeah. So when, when, when things are open up. That's where I'm going first. so one thing that I freaked out about personally when like the stay at home home orders started to be laid out, was that, cause I live in, in center city, Philadelphia, it's, it's really dense. It's urban area. And I was worried they were going to tell me I can't run outside anymore, but they were going to shut down the public paths and that like all my aerobic work was going to have to be done, not running.
[00:37:49] So have you found a way to kind of help with that? Like. Cause nobody has like a treadmill anymore. Right. Are you sticking to the Epic principles when it comes to the aerobic work too, or how does that kind of shift things?
[00:38:01] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:38:01] Yeah. To be honest, we've changed almost nothing like this is perfect for us because a huge part of Epic, which we haven't even really talked about, it's just so obvious to me, I forget it some time, is that we have new machines.
[00:38:12]we use only our body. So you literally don't need anything. We actually lent all of our members one kettlebell. And all of our workouts. I'm now writing programming for stay at home for all the epics across the country. Our body weight exercises and, or, adding a kettlebell, or like, maybe you use like a bench or a couch for, for some of the levels.
[00:38:32] So we barely had to change almost nothing. We just don't have, you know, more equipment is fun, but it's still, it's still very dynamic. currently, actually today, Filming for next month programming my, my demo videos. So still plenty to do.
[00:38:50] Rich Ryan: [00:38:50] And is that all available to the public? Is that part of the program that we mentioned before?
[00:38:54]like the state homeowners that for Epic?
[00:38:57] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:38:57] Yeah, that's for Epic. Epic locations, like Epic programming. So that's the only, that's only available to people who own an Epic license. But, anyone of the public can become a member. So we're at this point, just go in 49 bucks a month if anyone wants to come a member of our gym in Miami, we have three live classes a day.
[00:39:17] So absolutely they could hop on and get the programming that way. But I also have, I've always had not always had for, Oh, a little over a year now, the Epic Odyssey, which I referred to, which is a 30, 60 and 90 day program that takes you, that would be, that was obviously made for at home before this. So that would also work as well.
[00:39:35] Rich Ryan: [00:39:35] You see, right. You're ahead of it with no shoes. You're ahead of it with people staying at home.
[00:39:39] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:39:39] Yeah. I guess it's worked out.
[00:39:41] Rich Ryan: [00:39:41] Yeah. there was some to, to take a look at, because that's definitely an area where it. Can be hard for people, like when it is, like if the weather is not great and they can't run or, or things like that.
[00:39:52] So the stay at home and getting that aerobic piece, I think has been a really hard for people to come by. so just shift gears a little bit and we can always come back to Epic. And I'm sure we will touch on in this, but, we touched on it briefly before you just had a baby girl, right? Like it was literally the flick the week.
[00:40:12] That everything happened, wasn't it?
[00:40:14] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:40:14] Yeah. March 20th
[00:40:15] Rich Ryan: [00:40:15] yeah. My birthday is the 17th so is that Tuesday? So everything shut down that Monday and then,
[00:40:20] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:40:20] we'll congruent with the day before everything's shut down. Real.
[00:40:23] Rich Ryan: [00:40:23] The, like the day, the 16th, everything's shut down. So 17th is my birthday. And so we didn't, we didn't have dinner that night, but that, but we're fine.
[00:40:32] But everyone else's birthday was, I felt bad for myself. Thanks. Looking, their birthdays ruined, but everyone's birthday has now been ruined. So I was just the first one. so how things go and how things go and when you're in your own fitness journey now, like postpartum.
[00:40:44] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:40:44] Yeah, it's been interesting. I had an awesome pregnancy, worked out pretty much all throughout.
[00:40:50] Really. Only probably a few times a week toward the end doing Epic workouts. Just doing whatever version felt good. I have, it's been like a really awesome experience, just pregnancy and postpartum. Cause as you know, I was really, competitive athletically and a lot of people are like, what are you going to do?
[00:41:07] Or like, how are you FOMO? Are you sad? Are you going to get back? And it's just. I guess think I was just like ready in life because I've done so much of that and so it's been actually really awesome to just slow down. And during pregnancy it's like you literally, there's no motivation to work out except the reasons you're supposed to work out is to feel good.
[00:41:30] Period for that sentence.
[00:41:33] Rich Ryan: [00:41:33] Yeah. What was that shift like? Cause I've never worked out just to feel good. You know, it's always been. Competition set, structured leading up to something. I would like to think that I would be able to have my health in mind if that all gets taken away or I chose to not. so w was that a hard mind shift?
[00:41:51] Cause
[00:41:51] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:41:51] you miss the big one aesthetics, right? Yeah. It was interesting. So I didn't compete for about a year before I gave birth because I was dealing with a lot of fatigue. I think just from years of intense competition and being super lean, I was just like burnt out. So I had slowed down a bit. And, Honestly, if I didn't slow down in that last year, I don't even know if I would have because of like hormone weirdness, been able to get pregnant. So it was a little bit more gradual than abrupt of getting pregnant and me stopping. So, and that way it wasn't a shock, but. It was a perfect segue that slow down into that pregnancy into, Oh wow, I really especially love doing Epic workouts cause they're fun and they make me feel good.
[00:42:36]so the shift, actually, I was really grateful cause I know it's really tough for a lot of women. So it was actually really good. And then coming out of it into postpartum. I always said like, I'm not going to be in any rush. I'm just going to do what feels good, which is still true, but it's been interesting being a fitness professional, but not being a professional at postpartum because I think I know a lot about fitness and about the body, but I just was like so uncertain.
[00:43:03] Like when can I start things? When can I do this? Is this okay? Am I going to be starting too soon? Like I feel fine, but so it was kind of slow. And then all at once I started. I started off, I probably didn't do anything for I think like two and a half weeks postpartum. I started doing like a little bit of like rehabbing movement and then there's a great program I have to give credit to.
[00:43:25]birth fit if anybody is, pregnant, postpartum, there's this company called birth fit that has a lot of resources. So actually did their postpartum program, which is like 30 days and it's a lot of like rehab type stuff more than like workouts. And. I started actually a little bit too fast when I, and that two and a half weeks before I found the birth fit thing.
[00:43:48] And I had to pull back cause I had to kind of a gnarly, birth. I had it at home here, so I had a little extra recovery to do. Then I think a lot of women, and then I pulled back again and then I felt like it was taking a long time. But really now I'm nine, 10 weeks postpartum tomorrow and I'm doing, Epic workouts.
[00:44:07] I'm taking my own classes or other coaches, at my gym on zoom. three or four times a week now. And I feel great. So it was kind of like slow than all at once. But, yeah, it feels good and it's, it's still kind of interesting, right? Cause I still don't have any sort of goal and I'm, I'm not too anxious to like get any body back.
[00:44:31] I didn't know that. It's just something that takes time. And if I do my normal things, it'll happen and whatever. At whatever pace is going to happen. So I'm still really just enjoying the workouts.
[00:44:41] Rich Ryan: [00:44:41] And that's something that I was interested in as well as just kind of how the, what the motivation would be like.
[00:44:48] Cause I'm sure everything changes, right? Like your body changes, your, your mindset has to shift, your priorities have to change. And you know, there might be an idea of what it's like or what a lot of women might come into. I mean, I'm not going to speak for women on this, but I could imagine that they, wait.
[00:45:02]how does ideas like, okay, once postpartum, like I'm going to get right back to it and, and be on the grind. What did it change? Like did your mindset change in different ways or was that kind of, did you foresee your mindset around fitness the way that it is now?
[00:45:18] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:45:18] Did I foresee it when? Before I was pregnant?
[00:45:21] Rich Ryan: [00:45:21] Yeah. Yeah. Before you bring it over, like even during while being pregnant, like afterward, was it what you thought it was going to be like?
[00:45:28] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:45:28] Yes. I would say, yeah, I was, I was planning on, I was like prepping myself to. not rush, right. To be like, okay, it takes a really long time. I just did something super gnarly.
[00:45:41] Don't rush. I was just enjoying my baby, but then I got a little more anxious a little earlier than I thought to be like, okay, I'm ready to work out. Especially mostly just, out of boredom to like, something to do in a day. Especially since there's, I'm at home with this baby. And, so that's, that's the only thing I got a little anxious on to move.
[00:46:04] But I'm glad that I did because. Man after how much I've slowed down. What if I never got any like motivation back in the first place? So I'm grateful that I craved it, but I'm also not like too intensely. Like, I got to work out. I can't miss a day. That's not the case at all. I'm like, okay. I actually am kind of trying to stop myself and go just every other day.
[00:46:25] Again, just to ensure that I don't like burn myself out. And like breastfeeding is not only a full time job, but it is. energy expenditure. Inside your body. So I got to keep that in mind as well.
[00:46:37] Rich Ryan: [00:46:37] And it seems like a good way to kind of be almost intuitive about it. Just like how you're feeling and just kind of going with, instead of forcing one thing or, just allowing your, your body and your mind to kind of guide the way, which is.
[00:46:49] It's easy as it sounds. and from a physical standpoint, were you surprised at the bounce back or did the, the program that you kind of follow, walk you through it a little bit? Or was there anything that was worse or easier coming back than you thought or on your way back, I should say.
[00:47:11] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:47:11] Pelvic floor is just like, still a huge mystery to me. it's like, like I said, I felt like a fitness expert, but I, I think everyone needs to. Have get an expert in areas that they're not an expert, which is why I went to another program. cause I realized I am not an expert in this and they're like a lot of trauma down there.
[00:47:33] And I really feel like I don't know what I'm doing now. When I did get the program, I'm like, okay, this is actually some of the stuff that was doing and what I thought. Like you said, it's largely intuitive, but a lot of people were like. DM, not a lot. A few people. I hate when people say that, like everybody's asking about my taste on Instagram,
[00:47:51] Rich Ryan: [00:47:51] guys, let me tell you, everyone's,
[00:47:54] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:47:54] yeah.
[00:47:55] A couple of people DM me on Instagram and be like, you should do a postpartum or a pregnancy thing. And I'm like, Ooh, maybe the second baby. Like I don't like taking things. that are other. People's expertise and I'm a novice, like I want, I would like to learn from other people, just like you see a lot of people on now, posting their hit workouts online all of a sudden.
[00:48:17]so yeah, I'm still learning, but I would say that was the biggest surprise is like this mystery of the pelvic floor. And like. Internal healing and all that.
[00:48:28] Rich Ryan: [00:48:28] And that's almost like a physical therapy type of just doing.
[00:48:33] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:48:33] I still need to find that. I'm still, I need to go to a pelvic floor, physical therapist.
[00:48:38] Right. I think that would still be beneficial
[00:48:40] Rich Ryan: [00:48:40] for sure. And I liked that you had that humble approach yet, cause we all, you all see the people that. They take a kettlebell certification and they, the first time I touched a kettlebell and now all of a sudden they're putting up kettlebell stuff on Instagram, or you run a marathon and I have a marathon training plan you're selling.
[00:48:53] It's like, okay, let's, let's learn a little bit about it first. And then on the, on the other side as you were pregnant. and still working out. what was, cause when I was training one-on-one, I train a couple of pregnant women and, you know, we just kind of did modifications on different things, like less floor work and, not twisting so much, but just as much as like I could read up on it and I could, no, they felt comfortable with doing it.
[00:49:17] So in your experience, what did you find worked and what didn't? And were you surprised on anything.
[00:49:25] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:49:25] Yeah, it was, it's kind of the same thing. And you hit the nail on the head. It's, it's just, it's the same thing as I was talking about postpartum. I'm like, I think I know what I'm doing, but I don't feel like an expert in this.
[00:49:37] Like, so I did a lot of research, a lot of asking people who I know are an expert in that. but ultimately I found that, Hey, I'm actually correct and just do intuitively what feels good. And, That was pretty much it. It had an interesting thing where I had not heard of before, where I had, what do they call it, a pubis diastisis something where basically my pubic bone, the joint that connects two pieces was like, had too much, relaxing the hormone relaxing, which does exactly what it sounds like.
[00:50:11] It relaxes. And so it was like too loosey goosey. So that was extremely painful. And so from week. Like 16 of pregnancy, or maybe even before. actually I know it started, it actually played a game of, I was on a cruise. My husband and I did like a wedding crew. We eloped and then we did like a cruise with our family and it's October.
[00:50:31] And, I played a, decided to play a game of three on three basketball tournament on the boat. We took silver worth it, what it was. That was really good games. But anyway, after that, I think I kind of like jumped started that and for the rest of my pregnancy, like at her toe walk, which sounds really gnarly.
[00:50:53] I could do a lot of things. I could squat, I could hinge, I could swing anything where two feet were planted, anything weight shifting. NOLA like didn't do a single lunge my entire pregnancy and I couldn't go for walks. That was kind of the shittiest thing cause I like to go for walks. But yeah, excessive walking would, would make it hurt.
[00:51:09] So that was definitely the most surprising. So there's just so many things about pregnancy in general that people don't talk about and you have no idea about. Like all you hear about is morning sickness. And like cravings. But I didn't have either of those things. But there's all these other random things like, and I'm like, what is happening?
[00:51:29] So pregnancy. Yeah. There's a lot of surprises in that sense.
[00:51:33] Rich Ryan: [00:51:33] That's gotta be so crazy. Cause you're like, is this because of the human I'm growing or something else going on? And like you just chalk everything up to being pregnant at that point or
[00:51:43] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:51:43] they're allowed to do that. Yeah, definitely. Just to blame it all on pregnancy cause that's gotta be it because.
[00:51:50] Growing human is no joke.
[00:51:52] Rich Ryan: [00:51:52] Seems, seems pretty tough. And then like, so the relapse, so the basketball injury, that was because of the relaxing
[00:51:59] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:51:59] that, so that's the day it started. I woke up the next morning and I was like sobbing and I couldn't walk and I thought I like ruined my pregnancy, but it was, I could tell it was more me like bone rather than like the baby.
[00:52:12] But I attributed it to that just because that's the day it started and it never went away the rest of my pregnancy. So I think, I don't know if I didn't play. That if it would have happened or if I just jumped started it. But it makes sense cause it was just so much, agility that I was not my boss. It was just like a crazy amount of agility that my body wasn't prepared for or the hormone combined with all of that, like cutting and stuff that I was doing was too much at that point.
[00:52:38] Rich Ryan: [00:52:38] Yeah. I think I would get hurt if I played pickup hoops now too. so just on like a side, like this is just not even fitness related, but just. I haven't had a conversation with anyone who has had a baby in this. Time do you like how much are you thinking about how this is going to shape your daughter's life?
[00:52:56] Like with this like pandemic and like how human behavior is just going to change? Do you think about that? I'm sure like what's that like?
[00:53:05] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:53:05] Very interesting. The, what I think about, and maybe this is too optimistic of me, is like just telling her down the line, like, when you were born, there was this crazy time and we sold our groceries before we brought them in the house, and blah, blah, blah.
[00:53:20] And I hope I could tell it to her as a story like that. and rather than. You how we live now is started right when you were born, which unfortunately I think might be, the case, like just like nine, 11. All these things were instated, and we just forget that they were not there before nine 11, like obviously mostly security measures at the airport.
[00:53:42] Right. which are good, but I'm
[00:53:45] Rich Ryan: [00:53:45] a lot of, I don't remember what it was, like the airport before that. I mean, I was 14 or something, and I don't remember that at all.
[00:53:52] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:53:52] So I think there's gonna be a lot of crap like that. especially with like. Not even sanitation and mask wearing and, different things at businesses.
[00:54:01] But even like, contact tracing and things like that, that I think will be here to stay because of the, because of this. But I hope not. I hope everyone just forgets about this. Slowly but surely. And then.
[00:54:17] Yeah.
[00:54:18] Rich Ryan: [00:54:18] Yeah. And like I, I was thinking about it, you know, my, it's interesting. My, my, my grandmother just passed away this year and she was born in 19 she was 101 so she was born in 1918 during Spanish flu, and then saw all the way to coronavirus, which is crazy. So, but. The, like my parents' parents were born during, you know, the great went through a great depression and it kind of changed the way that they raised their children.
[00:54:41] And I think about that like is, is it going to be a depressed time for these kids? You know, and like how is that going to make them feel about, the way that they value different things? And it's going to be really interesting to see cause the world around them is going to be different. Like, than any of us have had to experience.
[00:55:00] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:55:00] Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure. I mean, even from the perspective of I think might affect even more so people like my four year old sets on, like I said, like his kids are now. I don't know about other kids, but like, he knows that it's a wash his hands all the time and constantly tell him not to touch things, which is so hard for a four year old.
[00:55:23]but it's, it's awesome. He says, because of the Coronas virus. so I, I think this generation might be also a bunch of, germaphobes, which probably not the worst thing, but I hope that. The one thing I do want Jack's B to not do is grow up in fear. So even the way I, I treat her, people might think I'm crazy or take her around like I'm not super fearful.
[00:55:49] I'm not an idiot. I. I am safe and keep distance, but I don't, you know, we go out of the house. I try not to live in fear.
[00:55:58] Rich Ryan: [00:55:58] Yeah. And that, and that's, I feel like that, that, that might actually be the, how that generation separates, you know, like, it's just huge divide about people who are active and, and are doing things and other people who are sheltered to the point where it's like paralyzing.
[00:56:11] But.
[00:56:12] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:56:12] I think you're right about that. I think there's going to be both because especially since you see how people are clashing hardcore, politically about this and people who think you should stay at home, people who think you should open. I just posted one thing in my stories about a month ago about mass.
[00:56:28] So they want you to wear masks on the boardwalk and it's like 85 degrees, like while exercising 85 degrees. A hundred percent humidity in Miami. And I was like, put something like, there's no way I'm wearing a mask, exercising. And then I got messages like, you don't give a shit about healthcare workers.
[00:56:45] And they're like, it's just like, and then so many people, like way more people were like, a hundred percent your show. Right? I'm not wearing a mask exercising either. That's absurd. Especially when you're not near people in open air next to the ocean. But, Yeah. I think there's going to be a big divide in that.
[00:57:04] Rich Ryan: [00:57:04] Yeah, right. I think it's going to have to like redraw political lines. Like right now they are kind of on both sides. Not to make this political in any way, but it seems to be the people's shows in their, their sides, but like there's going to be people who are affected from this that that are going to have to like are going to like switch teams.
[00:57:18] I think it's going to be. Crazy.
[00:57:21] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:57:21] Yeah. Yeah. So that's, that's an interesting question. I haven't thought about that for Jackson and my daughter longterm, very much beyond the fact that I hope that I'm telling it as like a long, long time ago story and it doesn't change things.
[00:57:36] Rich Ryan: [00:57:36] Yeah. Not like, Oh yeah, back before you were born.
[00:57:38] It was way cooler. We do way more fun stuff and now we don't do that much fun stuff.
[00:57:43] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:57:43] No more. Champlain park, we used to, we used to get together and jump on the same trampoline
[00:57:50] Rich Ryan: [00:57:50] little tasks. Dunk basketballs.
[00:57:56]what was the, what, what's, what's next for you then you've got, you mentioned there's an Epic cert, that you guys are working on, or is that released now or what's going on with that?
[00:58:06] Cassidy Nicholas : [00:58:06] Yeah. So now, honestly, it's, could you, to look at it in a positive way, since I'm not in the physical gym space, has given me opportunity to do more of what I do on the other end of Epic, which is, help the programming and coaching side of Epic as a company and licensing program.
[00:58:23] So yes, I have an online certification. Called the Epic coaches certification that's available to the public. I created it originally for just the other epics because as we started growing, when we first started opening new gyms, I would fly there. I'd give their coaches in owner the coaches certification over a weekend.
[00:58:42] But as we grow, right, that's not sustainable. So that was the original concept is to put it out there. So that, and also to help those owners. Be able to train new coaches cause it's, it's a lot of information and it's, like I said, we have very high level of coaching and programming. We're not just gonna throw someone in there with, no experience.
[00:59:00] So, I created it for that reason, but I realized that, I should make it. Available to the public so the public can, anyone who wants to learn this system, who wants to learn what Epic interval training is all about, who wants a new way of working out? because it is, like I said, a whole new system.
[00:59:18] It's, I hope that my, my dream for Epic is that everyone knows Epic animal training when they think Epic. In animal training. It's anonymous. Just like when you hear, why do you know that means CrossFit? I want Epic to be synonymous with animal training. And, people to know the system and to be able to use it.
[00:59:37] So that is available to anyone online. There's a link in my bio, my Instagram that says Epic coaches cert. But other than that, yeah. Still working on programming, for all of the locations and also teaching zoom classes to my gym locally. Well, it's like I said, anybody's welcome to join as well. If they want to contact me.
[00:59:57] We have three live, Epic classes a day. So, it's actually a really cool opportunity cause I get, so I really do get so many messages on, you should open in st Louis, you should open an Epic in Nashville. And I go. No, you
[01:00:12] Rich Ryan: [01:00:12] should. Good news. You can do it.
[01:00:16] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:00:16] And here's how, go fill out our application. but seriously, and anyone can take an Epic class now with me live on zoom.
[01:00:24] So that's pretty cool thing.
[01:00:25] Rich Ryan: [01:00:25] That's really cool. And like this cert is an awesome idea for trainers to help differentiate themselves. Like say like, would this be, what would it would be like? So say if I worked at a local gym here is called like city fitness. Like if I were to city fitness and I went through the Epic cert, can I then.
[01:00:39] Be on that city fitness schedule for like a five 30 on Thursday for like an Epic interval class. Like what it, is that how that would work? You think?
[01:00:47] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:00:47] That's an interesting question. no. Technically you should buy an Epic license and then you can do that.
[01:00:52] Rich Ryan: [01:00:52] Even if it was just an individual trainer.
[01:00:54] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:00:54] Yeah.
[01:00:55] But at the same time, of course I created it for the public. I don't expect you to take it and not use it so. Go for it and I won't see you. I promise I won't see you. If you go teach, I would rather Epic be spread. But if you're going to run any sort of serious, sustained, legitimate Epic classes somewhere, technically you should also have a
[01:01:14] Rich Ryan: [01:01:14] license, but there's a two for two, for one.
[01:01:18] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:01:18] Yeah, exactly.
[01:01:19] Rich Ryan: [01:01:19] I'm for it. any competition on the horizon? I mean, I know that's not for nobody, or is that something that mentally do you feel refreshed or reset or what do you think God is for Cassie? The athlete?
[01:01:30] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:01:30] Yeah. I would like to get back in there. Just out of curiosity, like I think I'm, I'm over it in that I think I accomplished a good amount and I think I kind of peaked.
[01:01:43] I know and not like being pessimistic about myself. I know I can physically peak again, but I don't know if I like have it in me to want to like train super hard every day and crushed my body and travel to a race when I'm like trying to like build and raise a family and run a business that's like. my priorities and my passions have changed.
[01:02:03] And not to mention like race nerves have really, really peaked up there the last few years to a point where it to me is almost not worth it to tow a starting line because of the feeling I get. However, with that being said, I, I need to give it another go. And I think with, Hi rocks is B is going to be the thing that I, I'm going to need to try, especially if it's in Miami.
[01:02:24] Again, I'm not gonna be able to pass up cause that's kind of my bread and brother butter. Although I'm gonna have to come to for some running because I'm going to have to run. Because that's seriously
[01:02:35] Rich Ryan: [01:02:35] thinking that like, that and DECA fit was basically built for you.
[01:02:39] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:02:39] Yes, yes, for sure. That's probably more so than
[01:02:43] Rich Ryan: [01:02:43] hierarchy.
[01:02:43] And Alex is doing great in those. Right?
[01:02:45] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:02:45] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He did awesome. And hydroxy made an amazing comeback cause he hasn't competed in anything in a while and, competed with the young ENS and crushed
[01:02:55] Rich Ryan: [01:02:55] it. So two podiums, I think, or at least one or two New York.
[01:03:01] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:03:01] Yeah, Miami. He did it as doubles and then New York, and then Chicago, he got a podium as well.
[01:03:08] Rich Ryan: [01:03:08] I think he, like the first Spartan race I ever did was here in Philly in 2013. I did the stadium and then I didn't do another. Spartan race until 2016 I think Alex won that spark, that Spartan race.
[01:03:20] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:03:20] Yeah, probably he's, he was, that's about the time he was like on the original Spartan protein and did like all the first stadium races and stuff.
[01:03:30] So
[01:03:30] Rich Ryan: [01:03:30] yeah. Cause I remember seeing him was, I was, I was a runner guy, so I thought I was like gonna go in there and just kill everybody. Cause I was fast. And then like I saw the guy when I was like, that fucking guy one. Oh shit.
[01:03:40] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:03:40] How did they move that?
[01:03:42] Rich Ryan: [01:03:42] This is not what I thought. This was cool. Awesome. Casio let you get back to, to take up your whole day.
[01:03:47] So where can people find you.
[01:03:51] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:03:51] The best places is probably Instagram at Epic Cassidy and yeah. From there you can find all my contacts on the link in my bio.
[01:04:01] Rich Ryan: [01:04:01] I can buy all, you can ask her a bunch of stuff. A lot of people are asking her a lot of stuff. cool. Yeah, and just to, to definitely follow on IgG, you're, you're great.
[01:04:10] Fall authentic to yourself. I mean, I don't really know yet. But from what I can tell, you're being authentic on there, which is, it's just hard to do on social media for sure. So I'll make sure to link in everything in. and yeah, that'd be good to go. So I'm gonna hit stop on here, but we'll stay on for a little bit.
[01:04:24]so we're just signing off. Thanks for listening. And Cassie, thanks for joining.
[01:04:28] Cassidy Nicholas : [01:04:28] Thank you.