The Work Is the Resistance: Equity in the Everyday

In this episode of The Equity Hour, Dr. Tami speaks with Leroy Smith, an educational leader and advocate, about the power of culturally affirming education, trauma-informed practices, and what it means to center justice in daily school life. Through personal stories and professional insights, this conversation highlights how resistance shows up in the everyday work of educators who believe in equity for all students—especially Black boys and neurodivergent learners.

Topics Covered:

• Culturally responsive curriculum & pedagogy
• Supporting students with IEPs and learning differences
• Affirmation and visibility for marginalized youth
• Healing-centered leadership
• Community-rooted educational change

Resources Mentioned:

• Wake by Dr. Rebecca Hall
• Healing-centered work by Dr. Shawn Ginwright

Connect with Leroy: https://realizedsolutionsllc.com/

Coaching Discovery Call

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Transcript

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Dr 0:35

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Equity Hour with me, your host, Dr. Tami. Dean. I am so excited to have Leroy A Smith in the house with us today as my guest, uh, Leroy. Hello.

Leroy Smith 0:54

How are you?

Dr 0:55

I'm doing pretty well hanging in there. Spring is springing, which I love, which I love.

Leroy Smith 1:00

yes. Love spring.

Dr 1:02

Yes. Other than

Leroy Smith 1:02

the allergies.

Dr 1:04

Oh, yes, we can, we can, the allergies can go back to where they are, but, um, so everyone, Leroy is an education leader, a curriculum specialist, and an advocate dedicated to empowering students and the educators who serve them. His passion for education was shaped by his personal experiences of inequity, inspiring his lifelong commitment to ensuring all students, regardless of background or ability, have the opportunity. To succeed. So exciting and so much line with myself. I know we've talked a little bit about that. And you know, really exciting. He does vocal music. And then in 2020 he founded the Realized Curriculum Solution, which provides curriculum design, professional development, and special education advocacy services. So he is worked with a ton of students, over 10,000 of them, and has partnered with Carnegie Learning. So welcome to the show.

Leroy Smith 1:58

Thank you for having me.

Dr 2:00

I'm

Leroy Smith 2:00

excited.

Dr 2:01

Thank you for coming. I am so excited. I'm so excited. I cannot wait to hear and learn more about all the work that you do. One, because selfishly, you, you and I are like kindred spirits in our journey, which, um, always speaks to me. But let's talk about that journey because that is one of the things, I always want people to hear how people got to this work and what they've done, because oftentimes, and I think in the current climate especially, it can feel like it's something we shouldn't be doing, or it's like a task versus a way of being or acting or moving in the world. So tell us a little bit about. Your equity journey, like what got you here, uh, and what you do.

Leroy Smith 2:46

Sure. So. My journey starts. I'm a Baltimore boy, as I like to say to people. one of, I, I like steam crabs, but I prefer crab cakes in crab soup

Dr 2:57

Ooh.

Leroy Smith 2:57

That's my preference for Baltimore and cuisine. but I was born and raised in Baltimore. Still live here. Own my home here, actually two blocks in my high school is where I live. so true Baltimore boy, and that kind of where my journey started. My maternal grandmother had a daycare in our house when I was around about four through seven years old. And I got my start working with children at that age.

Dr 3:27

It just threw you right in the fire back in those days, right?

Leroy Smith 3:30

Yeah. Um, back in the nineties, you know, it's just like, just throw you into wolves. I guess it's still, millennials are still used to that throw, throw them into wolves, kind of, guess, lifestyle at some point.

Dr 3:42

Yes. Well, I'm a Gen Xer, so I'm definitely, well.

Leroy Smith 3:44

Yeah. Gen Xers, you know, I, maybe it's Gen Z, I don't know, but depending on what they're going through

Dr 3:50

Yeah. Yeah.

Leroy Smith 3:51

family. But yeah, I was just kind of thrown in there and, um, since I was one of the oldest kids in, well, I was the oldest of my siblings and, of all my brothers, and then I had, I was the oldest of some of my cousins who were also being babysat by my grandmother. And some of the, um, kids in the neighborhood. so at that point I was already reading a little bit, 'cause I went to Head Start and my great uncle, um, my maternal grandmother's brother, he was already reading to me a little bit and I already picked up pretty quickly on some things. So I would read the kids' stories of books that I've already read a bunch of times at the time. I would help out with, you know, getting them their bottles and changing their diapers and. Getting them ready for their parents to pick them up. So I got immersed with children in a very early age. Um, I just turned 35 last week, so, so now I'm saying I'm going, what, 31 years of working with children, both

Dr 4:46

formally and I love it.

Leroy Smith 4:47

Informally. I don't even wanna use the words formally and informally, but, both kind of unintentionally and intentionally I would say that. so. That's kind of where it started. And then as I grew up and went to Baltimore City Public Schools, I started to notice the difference between how my brothers who were younger than me were being treated. they had different diagnoses of speech, um, delays and some also some diagnoses of A DHD and learning disabilities that were at play. And in addition to all that, growing up in a rough part of Baltimore during the nineties, during the height of the heroin.

Dr 5:29

Oh.

Leroy Smith 5:29

that kind of

Dr 5:30

Mm-hmm.

Leroy Smith 5:30

Um, and you know, if you've ever seen the, the first three seasons of The Wire, I lived in pretty much all those neighborhoods. so there were no props. Our neighborhood was the backdrop. so that's where I grew

Dr 5:47

Hmm.

Leroy Smith 5:47

There was violence and drugs, all kinds of stuff that were, that were pervasive in the neighborhood. And in the early age, I kind of knew that things weren't. Right. I couldn't put my finger on it, but I knew things weren't fair for people. So much so that when I was in, um, kindergarten, I'm pretty sure you remember it was like a thing that everyone did back in at that time for Gen Xs and 90 in, in the nineties, babies and millennials, it was, uh, what do you wanna be when you grow

Dr 6:14

Oh yes.

Leroy Smith 6:15

in kindergarten. You know, most people in the class are just like, I wanna be a doctor or a baker, or, you know, lawyer or something like that, or a wrestler for some of the boys in my class. But I, was the only one that was just like, I wanna be the mayor of Baltimore City. And my kindergarten teacher was like, why? I said because, and I remember, and I, and I remember it kind of vaguely a little bit, but I remember because, I saw my kindergarten teacher maybe a few years after that, by the time I was in fifth grade and getting ready to go to middle school. And she told me the story and she said, I asked you why. And, and I pretty much was just like, well, I'm tired of seeing homeless people on my way to school and I'm tired of people, my family going through what they're going through. It's not fair. and she was just like, are you certain that you wanna do this? And I was just like, I don't know. And so that was me in kindergarten. And then my third grade teacher, Ms. Golfagain she really kind of lit the flame of like being in the classroom and being in education. She said, if you wanna give back, the greatest thing you can do in your community is to inspire the young minds of your community members and even the minds of people who are. Or older to think more critically about who they are, um, where they are and what they wanna do with their, their lives. and so that's kind of how my start happened, kind of

Dr 7:35

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 7:35

third grade. And then, there were a series of events that led to me going to college and other things that led me into education. Because I just noticed that it was just so many things that were unfair. And I wanted to do something about it in a way that was meaningful to me.

Dr 7:53

Oh my gosh. I Kudos to your teacher, right? Like I keep thinking like inspire, serve, like some of the greatest things you can do for your community, for you know, your country, for your state, for what, for people

Leroy Smith 8:10

Mm-hmm.

Dr 8:11

to use your voice. And I love that. Sometimes we think that young children don't have the capacity or ability.

Leroy Smith 8:21

Mm-hmm. to see

Dr 8:22

injustice, but I actually think there's so much better at seeing it and naming it

Leroy Smith 8:26

Mm-hmm.

Dr 8:26

than we are as adults. Like it's almost like we train it out of them to see and notice it. And you know, everyone knows the story of the kids, right? Being like, well, that's not fair.

Leroy Smith 8:37

Mm-hmm.

Dr 8:37

And the adults are like, well, what is fair is not always equal,

Leroy Smith 8:40

Mm-hmm.

Dr 8:41

which is true.

Leroy Smith 8:43

Mm-hmm.

Dr 8:44

And

Leroy Smith 8:45

Mm-hmm.

Dr 8:46

are, do you, does that actually get applied in systems and structures? Right. Because if a group has been historically marginalized and what is fair is not always equal, means they may need extra support to help get them to the space where they're on equal footing.

Leroy Smith 9:02

Yeah.

Dr 9:03

And that may be a different way to think about that phrase for some people. 'cause I don't think they think about it that way.

Leroy Smith 9:11

Yeah. I mean, I've taught math for years and. It. I mean, one of the greatest lessons that you can teach students is about negative and positive integers. Is when you're already in debt, you need even more to get into the positive. So there's a lot more effort. And we talk about magnitude on the number line

Dr 9:29

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 9:29

like we talk to kids about, like, when you hear magnitude, most people think of earthquakes.

Dr 9:33

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 9:34

The larger the magnitude, the more the impact is the same thing. When you're in a ne, when you're in a negative side of things, further you are away from. Equal opportunity or just any great opportunity, the more that you need, the higher the magnitude you need to get propelled forward. Um, because you're so much further behind, not because of anything that you did, it's just because of circumstances and the systems that are in place.

Dr 10:01

Yeah, absolutely. I love that way of thinking about it too, because that. For people in how sometimes people get emotional talking around some of these processes or systems or what are really fact, right?

Leroy Smith 10:17

Mm-hmm.

Dr 10:17

It's a way to think about it outside in a way that's a little bit more tangible, I think is what I'm trying to say.

Leroy Smith 10:23

Yeah.

Dr 10:24

you know, like it doesn't feel like a personal attack. It just is like, Hey, just really think about this. If this happens.

Leroy Smith 10:32

Mm-hmm.

Dr 10:33

Um, this is the result of that. And then how do we mediate that?

Leroy Smith 10:37

Mm-hmm.

Dr 10:37

So it sounds like you had a calling, I'm gonna call it that, and a passion from a very young age.

Leroy Smith 10:48

Mm-hmm.

Dr 10:49

So do you feel like your trajectory. Because of that went kind of linear or did you take the windy path? More like me, like where it's there, but like there's a trend line. Speaking of math, right? Look at me. There's a trend line, but it

Leroy Smith 11:08

I think, um, think all of our lives are kind of similar to that. Like there's no straight

Dr 11:17

mm-hmm.

Leroy Smith 11:18

I think it's part of human experience, to ground us and to, you know, humble us and to help us have more compassion for others. I think it is a, anyone who has a straight line forward tends to be a my. Perception, maybe, their whole lives have been planned out for them by someone else.

Dr 11:38

Oh.

Leroy Smith 11:39

Um, and they have no agency. So, and those are often people who are privileged 'cause I've met some of those people. When I went to college, I went to pwi, and some of these people had everything done for them. Their whole life was set out for them. I mean, they, they could have not really went to, they could have went to any school they wanted to go to. I. They still would've made more than most of us do because of their connections and their privilege. so their life was always in a straight line going up. I think that's why they have a hard time sometimes, some, not, not all of them, but I think a good portion of people who are space have a hard time kind of relating to others because they don't experience the same downs that are natural and are experienced as human beings. So to answer that question, I've kind of went a little up and down throughout my life. Um. I started, actually at first I was gonna be a, I went from wanting to become the mayor of Baltimore City

Dr 12:36

Yes.

Leroy Smith 12:37

when I was a little kid to wanting to become a lawyer for the naacp. Um, then changing from that to wanting to be a historian of Africana studies and things like that, then to changing, to being a music. Like musical performer. As a vocalist, I thought I was gonna travel the world and sing jazz and gospel and r and b and pop and opera and all that good stuff. Um, then from that, as I went into college, I was a music ed major, so I thought I was gonna teach music. but the major was particularly challenging for me because there was so many changes in the program. and, um, it was very challenging for me at the time as well because I was. In that time, a conservatory, I was the only black male vocalist that was in the entire conservatory, so I felt

Dr 13:24

Oh wow. Yeah.

Leroy Smith 13:26

there was some racial incidents on campus as well. So that mixed with the trauma I was still experiencing with my family and things that they were going through, there were a lot of ups and downs. Then I just shifted to be just music major, not knowing what I wanted to do with it. Um, did a internship, the Amer Well internship work study program through America Reads. I think it's through AmeriCorps or not, I'm not really sure if it's still through it, but did that at a school and loved it and, taught multilingual students how to, access English, um, as readers and writers and speakers. And, then from there went into alternative teaching program and then kind of, I. Stuck with that for some time in education. And then the, the curriculum piece came, the advocacy piece came, the consultant piece came. So I think things kinda happen in their natural order with the, the ups and downs. But I, I would say my future is, um, still open. I think I'm trying to leave myself open to the future because I think. Where I am in my healing journey is that I, I can't predict the full future and I'm trying to leave a little bit of space because if I don't create space in the future, I'm kind of locking myself out and other people out that I can serve. and so I'm trying to be more in that mindset as I, you know, be intentionally move forward.

Dr 15:03

That is really powerful, right? Um, and I say that because. You, you sound, I'm gonna call you a high achiever, right? Because, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna say that because to me, a high achiever is someone who continues to move forward through all of life's happening, right?

Leroy Smith 15:27

Mm-hmm.

Dr 15:28

to. Um, change as change is necessary and being open to the new possibilities.

Leroy Smith 15:37

Mm-hmm.

Dr 15:38

Um, I think people like to think of high achievers as just like, oh, you got the grades. I think there are so many ways to be a high achiever and there's, I don't, I don't want it to be that limiting.

Leroy Smith 15:46

Mm-hmm.

Dr 15:47

Um, 'cause how powerful, to be a person to say, okay, I am here. And you know, I'm feeling very strong in what I'm doing and I know there's something that may be out there that I don't even know, that I don't know yet that's gonna come my way. So like opening your heart and your spirit

Leroy Smith 16:10

Mm-hmm.

Dr 16:12

that possibility. And I just think that's really powerful. I think that's a really important part of connecting with people doing social justice work. Um, I personally have that, sort of mantra, right? Like, I've done 50 million, 11 different things in the trajectory of my career. All really grounded in my purpose, which is right about people and equity and justice and all of these things just looking very different. But that open mindset had me do things that if you would've asked me

Leroy Smith 16:50

Mm-hmm.

Dr 16:51

was, you know, the 18-year-old going to college, oh, you're gonna, whatever, one day I would be like, huh. First of all, I, we couldn't have even, I wouldn't have even been able to imagine we could see each other and we're not even in the same state, you know, like, that didn't exist when I was 18. I, this makes me sound really old. I swear I'm not. But those kinds of things. So I think that's also a great mindset when. Engaging with people that may have a different perspective or viewpoint than you, like moving past the bias, the assumption,

Leroy Smith 17:27

Mm-hmm.

Dr 17:28

um, and like you're preordained, like this is where this is going to end

Leroy Smith 17:33

Mm-hmm.

Dr 17:33

conversation can help us better learn and understand from each other. I don't know. Do you, what do you think about that?

Leroy Smith 17:40

I think that's true. That's also part of my healing journey. actually looking at some of my, um, I look at my reflection journals here or there just to see like I. Where I was not that long ago where I am. And one of the things I noticed is that although I experienced quite a bit of trauma just because of the circumstances of where I grew up, and the systems that influenced that or caused that or had some hand in that, I actually had quite a bit of, like, I was both a caretaker at too young of an age to not enjoy the, the, the, the beauty of childhood. the same time, I was also. of the family structure, there was a lot of looseness, loose structure for me to create my own, um, way. So I think, as I've gotten older, I realized that it's just kind of been a part of my nurture, kind of inadvertently by my family and also part of my nature to just kind of find my own way. And I've done that, I've learned that I have to create space for other people as they're finding their own way. So I think. That's why, you know, typically when I speak to people, um, I, I say I can sit down with even someone who does, who doesn't like me or hate me because I'm open to hear where their heart is and where their, and where it was. Because I think it's, I think sometimes the greatest, thing that diminishes our humanity is just not understanding. Like I said, that up and downs the natural parts of life. I don't know what down someone went through that created whatever they feel or whatever they believe. Um, I don't know what up they experienced that may have created that either. I just know how I show up in the world and I try my best to understand other people, so I think having that openness allows us to actually be in community and, and grow. like I'm, I'm trying to think of like all the gardeners out there as gardening season. you don't like, make enough space in your soil for all the things you're growing, things will start growing up on top of each other and competing for space and they'll be in conflict. So there, I think even Garters know kind of, um. Almost like through, how do you say, muscle memory, that you can't crowd everything. There has to be a level of openness just for things to grow. So I think that's the space I'm in now, and I'm trying to continue that path.

Dr 19:59

Yeah. Yeah. The plan. Plants need a space to breathe

Leroy Smith 20:02

Mm-hmm.

Dr 20:02

airflow, right, to be their most productive.

Leroy Smith 20:05

Yep.

Dr 20:05

And I think that's a great analogy, right? Because we as humans also, right, need space and air to breathe and room

Leroy Smith 20:12

Mm-hmm.

Dr 20:13

to to grow. I love that. So, okay, so you did a bunch of different things. You said you moved into consulting and so now you have founded, Realized Curriculum Solutions. You've worked with a ton of students, so I tell everyone a little bit more about that. What does it you do, who do you work with?

Leroy Smith 20:34

Sure. So, relaxed curriculum solutions. We started. I would say unofficially, unofficially actually my first year teaching, by myself, without me even knowing that that was gonna turn into anything really. I would say that's back in the 20 12, 20 13 school year, around that time. Um, more so 20 13, 20 14, going around that time, after my residency, with. what is it? City Teaching Alliance. They used to be called urban teachers back in the day.

Dr 21:06

Okay.

Leroy Smith 21:07

Um, so I used to tutor some of my students on the weekends at the libraries or sometimes tutor them during the summer. And at the time I was really, didn't know what to call my company, so I was just like. Mr. Smith tutoring. You know, I was just, I didn't, I was like, meet me at the library on a Saturday between 11 and one. and I worked with a lot of my families at the time and so it kind of started unofficially there. 'cause I, once again, as a teacher in the classroom, I realized that so many of our students needed more,

Dr 21:36

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 21:37

from a variety of different backgrounds. And then, um, years kind of went by. I kind of un, you know, here or there. Tutor dabbled here, tutoring there. started off with tutoring, honestly. And then I kind of took a break from it for maybe about three years, three or four years. and then the, the pandemic hits, and we're stuck at home. And, people kept calling me, like former families, former students that were not in high school getting ready for college, who had IEPs. Former colleagues, former supervisors of like, how do we support students with IEPs? How do we support culturally and linguistically diverse students who are struggling during, during Global Pandemic? And I was like, why does people calling me?

Dr 22:27

Because you knew something. You knew something.

Leroy Smith 22:30

yeah, I mean, I, that was at a different point where I feel like my self-esteem was really, really strange. Like, I felt like I knew I was good at getting good results for students, but I didn't think that anyone else noticed other than me. And so I was just like, oh, people are calling me. I was like, this is okay. This is a lot. And so one of the. One of my former, parents of a student I had at a previous school had asked me, well, Mrs. Smith, how do I pay you for helping me with this? And I was like, I mean, you could just pay me. She's like, do you have a company? And I was like, And she was like, well, you should start a business. And I was like, And she's just like. So I told you this is, this is, the, the, the natural ebb and flows of life. I was like, why? I was like, and she said, well, it's because you're really good at what you do and I think a lot of people need what you provide. And I was like, okay. I thought back to an example. We did like a in, in one, my, the, the school year before, well, two years school, years before, before the pandemic. We did this example with our first graders, a mini unit on entrepreneurship, and they were coming up with business ideas and business names. And one of my students, Ari at the time. First grader, he said to me, Mr. Smith, you know what I realized? You are very good at working with kids that look just like me, little black boy with the IEP. Um, and I remember that touched my heart because it's one of the quotes and one of the students I remember, like it was yesterday, even though it was a few years ago. And, um, once the pandemic hit when he said, I realized that you. Work well with kids that look like me. I just took that name realized from that statement. So, you know, I'm really, expressed gratitude to him. I don't know where he is now. Um, I'm sure he's in high school now and, probably 10th grade it was like, ninth or 10th

Dr 24:18

That's the worst part, right? You're like, oh, that student is now 30 oh oh.

Leroy Smith 24:23

know. I know. So, um, so yes, I named my company Realized Solutions and it was also, uh, an awakening for me of like realizing my own worth as a human being beyond doing the work, but actually just caring about others and just showing up for people the best way I know how to. and so then it kind of transitioned into advocacy work. A lot of people then started flooding, like. How do we get help for our kids? They need an IEP, they need evaluations, they need this. and then shortly after that it was like, it was kind of kinda like that, like you said, bouncing around thing. tutoring came back into space 'cause a lot of the people who I was advocating for also wanted me to tutor their kid as well because they wanted to make sure that they can catch up in their IEP goals and their

Dr 25:11

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 25:11

school. And then as time went on. People who were former colleagues and supervisors were just like, Hey, we've known that you've done a lot of curriculum work over the summers for a school district. we need you to help us with PD and curriculum. So then I got into PD and curriculum, workshops. And so that's kind of where we are now actually is more so in the PD workshop space for educators, education leaders and, and, families. so we partner with educational organizations, to help them. Both develop and adapt and implement curriculum resources for, neurodivergent students of colors as to color. And so that's what we do now and uh, it's been great. I mean, I have to revise my website because the 10,000 students was in the past and I made the website,

Dr 26:00

Okay.

Leroy Smith 26:01

one of my clients. Um, the Center Pacific Education through some of the work I did with them on their, we the People Project with teachers a few years ago back in LA um, the curriculum that they have implemented has touched over 1 million students in the

Dr 26:14

Oh, that's so cool.

Leroy Smith 26:16

so when they told me that recently, I was kind of floored. I never thought, I mean, I, I didn't even think I was gonna be a, an entrepreneur. Never thought that, didn't think I was gonna be a homeowner,

Dr 26:26

Look, you thought you were gonna be the mayor of Baltimore City, so.

Leroy Smith 26:29

Well, I don't know if I want that at all. 'cause that's just too much. It's too much work. Too much work. I feel like my calling is working with people who are in education and working with people who care for children.

Dr 26:40

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 26:41

but, uh, yeah, I stumbled into, well my girlfriend says is different. You didn't stumble into things. The world just kind. you in that way? Because I didn't think I was gonna go to college. Uh, Dr. Tami, I mean, I grew up in a rough neighborhood where gun violence was an issue.

Dr 26:56

Mm-hmm.

Leroy Smith 26:57

think I was gonna live. It was a personable amount of time just to live past 18

Dr 27:01

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 27:02

to too many funerals for too many people in my family. Seen too many people go to jail, and I just thought, I didn't wanna go to jail. I didn't want to, you know, die young. That was, that was real for me at the

Dr 27:12

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 27:13

So I didn't think I was gonna go to college until teachers pushed me. I didn't think I was gonna become a homeowner until people pushed me. I didn't think I was gonna be an entrepreneur until people pushed me. So I'm learning that, I have to kind of lean into the fact that there are people who see things in me that I don't see for myself.

Dr 27:29

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 27:30

and I'm trying to do what's right by myself, but also right by them because they've invested time, energy, and money to ensure that. my company supports as many children throughout this country as we possibly can so that they can see themselves reflected in their curriculum, that they can feel like they have the skills necessary to do something about their, um, their now. Not their future, but their now, because their now is, living through stuff now, you know? And so,

Dr 27:59

the time. Every day. Yes. Yes. Like it's that phrase like, um, tomorrow, can't wait. But I, I think there's like a really powerful statement in what you said, right? People can see things in you that you couldn't see in yourself. And I think just as an educator, um, and as a human, I think it's important that we share those things with people because you're like, wait, what?

Leroy Smith 28:27

Yep.

Dr 28:28

um. It's so funny, I told you we're kindred spirits. First of all, I love that your name of your company has a story.

Leroy Smith 28:37

Mm-hmm.

Dr 28:38

my company name also has a story 'cause you, nothing about this name says equity work. Um, but you know, I think the story is. I believe in the power of story, just first of all, um, which is why I do this podcast. I love the podcast because I think people relate to other humans. We've historically always related to each other via story

Leroy Smith 29:00

Mm-hmm.

Dr 29:01

an experience and seeing and hearing other people do that, and you're like, oh, maybe, maybe I could do that

Leroy Smith 29:08

Mm-hmm.

Dr 29:09

too. You know, I too had other people, like I've done all kinds of things and they're like, you should just, just, just do it. Just start. Just start your own company. Right? And I love that you had confirmation along

Leroy Smith 29:21

Mm-hmm.

Dr 29:22

way, right? In ways that you weren't expecting. You're like, wait, what? Okay, like, and then this happens and it's those, I don't know. For me, those little nuggets are what keep you going in, figuring out where the next door opens or the next relationship, um, or connection you're going. To make.

Leroy Smith 29:46

Mm-hmm.

Dr 29:49

I love that about this work. You know, I love that about people, right? Because there's a lot of crazy in the world, and I think social media and our current cycle has made it seem, uh, how do I wanna say this? Like, everything is bad.

Leroy Smith 30:06

Mm-hmm.

Dr 30:08

I actually still believe in my heart that there are more people that want. Good and are trying to do things right by other people

Leroy Smith 30:18

Mm-hmm.

Dr 30:18

want to care and support for people. And I hope my goal is like, how do you use your voice? I want everyone to find a way to use their voice in a way that's unique for them, that helps support this collective humanity. We have.

Leroy Smith 30:34

That's part of the work that we do is when we're designing lessons or unit plans or assessments or rubrics, we're thinking about learning opportunities for children who typically. Have been cast aside by society or given up on, I mean, you know, students who have, you know, who are neurodivergent or who have disabilities, who are also students of color.

Dr 30:57

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 30:58

This is like the combination of like the most forgotten in our society when you look at unemployment rates. It's not just, people of color who are historically more marginalized in unemployment. It's people of color who have a disability status. Are like really feeling it right now and have been feeling it for such a long time. and so we try to create opportunities where people see that we have been resisting from day one. It is a part of human nature to resist negativity that comes your way. and that that's the beauty of our experience. I think. I was just listening to a podcast maybe about an hour before I got on with you um, all of the untold undocumented. Um, rebellions that happen for enslaved Africans here in the US that are not mentioned in almost any history book, unless you go to the collegiate level to look a little deeper.

Dr 31:53

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 31:54

and there's a reason for that. It's the same thing for social media, that the algorithms are planned in a way that we kind of feel disempowered, that we feel like things are worse than. they actually are. Um, I'm in the firm belief that things have historically because we're humans and we're not perfect things, have always had a level of crazy and always had a level of hope At the same time, I think we're just the next, we're just the current generation of human beings that are experiencing part of. What is deeply human, the good

Dr 32:28

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 32:28

and the ugly. and I think it's our turn this time to experience. What does it mean to resist against the ugly and the bad in the world, whatever that might be.

Dr 32:40

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 32:40

and how do we cultivate, you know, my girlfriend said, she's like, I, I don't have the energy to fight all the bad, but I do have energy to cultivate the good I'm gonna cultivate the good so that. Our next generation that comes up behind us when they go through the human experience of the good, the bad, and ugly. know what good feels like. They know what it, um, looks like and sounds like, and they're willing to do it because it's been done for them. and so that's kind of the space I'm also in too. It's just like, as much as I can, I wanna cultivate the good so people can realize that there is a level of strength and, and power that we do have in our noun.

Dr 33:19

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 33:20

a fifth grade student who is reading two years below grade level in DC or Baltimore, wherever in the country, you still have just as much power as the person who goes to the private school. You know, with all the money and all the fame and all the glory, you have power. But we have to find ways to get you to tap into it

Dr 33:40

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 33:40

power is whatever their power is. It might make you feel small, but you're never small. You're always bigger than what you think you are. And that's something my teachers instilled in me at a young age and also family members, is just that the world is as big as we believe it is, and we are as big as we believe we are. And if we see ourselves as small, we're gonna see everyone around us as small minded people. I remember my fifth grade teacher said that if you see yourself as small, you're gonna project that upon other people and they're gonna see themselves as small. And then now you have a small minded conversation. But if you see that other person as big and full. You see yourself as big as full. You can have a big and full conversation and engage in a way that's more nuanced. Um, so that's what we do. We want people to have the tough conversations. We want people, the children to say, guess what? My community may not be all the things I want it to be, but I have, I have a, a role in this to do

Dr 34:36

Mm.

Leroy Smith 34:37

about it for myself and for others. And I can start today. I don't have to wait until I'm an adult. I don't have to

Dr 34:43

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 34:44

The legal age to vote. I can start now in my own small ways of, of being in service to myself and others.

Dr 34:52

Yeah. Whew. Okay. Amen. Amen. Um, okay. I wanna ask this because I believe in all of those. I, I believe that, and I think there are a lot of people that believe that.

Leroy Smith 35:08

Mm-hmm.

Dr 35:11

So I have two questions really.

Leroy Smith 35:12

Sure.

Dr 35:13

One kind of thinking around the, the current climate and the pushback

Leroy Smith 35:20

Mm-hmm.

Dr 35:20

around servicing,

Leroy Smith 35:23

Mm-hmm.

Dr 35:24

students with disabilities around,

Leroy Smith 35:26

Mm-hmm.

Dr 35:27

you know, that culturally responsive,

Leroy Smith 35:29

Mm-hmm.

Dr 35:31

education needs to go away. You know, this idea that we have to scrub

Leroy Smith 35:37

Mm-hmm.

Dr 35:38

words, um. One. I'm just curious how and if that's affected what you and your organization do at all. And then two, what's your kind of best suggestion for people looking to make that difference

Leroy Smith 35:54

Mm-hmm.

Dr 35:55

this climate? I.

Leroy Smith 35:56

Mm-hmm. Um, right now it has, it is somewhat affected my work, both in. I would say a unique way. I think it's made me think differently about how people approach this topic. I think when people hear words like equity or whatever else, other words they might hear in, in the litany of, I say the lexicon of doing right by people.

Dr 36:20

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 36:21

Um, I think people hear those things and it. Means different things to different people or from different experiences. So it's made me become more strategic about how I speak about the work and what I do. Think people, you know, there is a fear that persist at the societal level, that when you do right by all people, the society then crumbles, or that the society can't sustain itself because. Now the truths are out there. And now the truths are not in in deep opposition with what we have been raised or what we have been taught to believe. and I think because of the natural instinct of human beings to hold on whatever they hold dear to their hearts, I. Is the reason why the resistance is so strong to the troops that are of all people here. so I think that's where some of that is. And I think also because some people just don't experience those things. If you've lived a life where you've never experienced these kind of struggles, uh, you're probably not gonna care as much. Not because, and it doesn't mean that you're heartless, it

Dr 37:33

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 37:33

that. This is a foreign concept to you. and so I think for me, I'm approaching the work understanding that not everyone who has privilege or who does not have privilege in, in different ways is coming into these, this current time that we're in. Seeing it, coming in with a, you know, mal intent. Some people coming in with a just out, out of sheer, like, I don't know what this is.

Dr 37:55

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 37:56

this. I can't, I, I'm, I don't, I'm not concerned about that, about. who have disabilities not getting their services met because my kids don't have them. I'm not concerned about, you know, the various truths about people's experiences being taught in school, because in my neighborhood there are no other kids that look like my kids. so why, why should I be concerned about that? So I, I think that's a part of it. So I have to strategically understand that, because of how we are. Especially in this country because of how we are still segregated, um, throughout the country and how so many people live so far away from each other. I didn't realize how big the US was, but also how small at the same time is big enough that people like live in the same state or. Live a few towns over and not experience any cultural diversity,

Dr 38:47

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 38:48

which is shocking to me. Um, but it's also small enough that we can experience a whole bunch of things at one time. so I think that's one and two, I think I, what we can do about it is remind ourselves we are just the, the, the latest iteration of our species that are going through what, what we've always gone through. I think that makes me feel empowered because me not think that this is a unique challenge. This is a challenge that is. Deeply embedded within our experience as human beings and our species is in our DNA, that some of us will, will do some very lewd and crazy things, and others of us will try to say, let's not do that, and let's find some way to not make that happen.

Dr 39:35

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 39:36

I mean, I don't wanna put it out there like this is all genealogy, but I, I think it's, in our experience that that happens, I think ourself that we. Have a blueprint for people who

Dr 39:49

Hmm.

Leroy Smith 39:49

along in the past and who are currently creating a, a new blueprint right now. for how to resist, I think. I think culturally as, and musically, I think about one of my favorite genres to sing our spirituals.

Dr 40:03

Hmm.

Leroy Smith 40:04

and it's the music of people who were pressed on plantations, who were sold on the auction block. People who in the north were being hunted down by the KKK in New Hampshire and New York. Even though they say that the KKK was only in the South,

Dr 40:17

Right.

Leroy Smith 40:18

it's the people who, you know, left their families in the south. Seeking for a better life, going up north, not knowing what was gonna happen when they went north or not knowing what was gonna happen when they moved west and singing these spirituals that eventually became blues and r and b and gospel and jazz and similar styles. We enjoy country music and all kinds of things today. it reminds me of that, is that our ancestors sang even when they were picking cotton like I, that, or, or indigo in our area, um, in Maryland, like they weren't going to let. Someone else who said they had ownership over their bodies, get the last word,

Dr 40:57

Mm.

Leroy Smith 40:57

last word, even if they were still going through the, trauma that they experienced. It was even so that some of these plantation, um, owners started to realize that that wasn't act of resistance. The dance, the ring shouts the singing, they started to have these things called silent plantations. Where they didn't want you to talk at all. But then we found ways to be creative with our hairstyles

Dr 41:24

Yes.

Leroy Smith 41:24

with our hairstyles, and we found ways to be creative in the patches we wore in our clothes, and the foods that we ate or when we had time to downtime or whatever it may have been. Um, so it just reminds me of that is that we are just going through yet another iteration. I mean, it's not the exact same thing that

Dr 41:42

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 41:43

generations went through, but. is the, it is the human experience that we're gonna come to grips with the evils and the goods of the world and everything that's in between. Um, and I think reminding myself that there's always something we can do, even if it's just you having the thought. I don't like what's going on. Like, starting there is something you can do. Um, when I work and I coach some teachers,

Dr 42:07

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 42:08

this day and time, letting your kids know that their disabilities do not define them. Is a part of the resistance, letting them know that there have been people who, you know, I, my favorite example is Harriet Tubman, a woman who suffered from epilepsy. Could you imagine

Dr 42:23

Right.

Leroy Smith 42:23

the first woman to lead a, a, a regiment in the army in the United States to free hundreds of slaves on one day and one day, let alone all the other hundreds. She freed just by herself.

Dr 42:36

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 42:37

I think about a woman who went through seizures who said, you know what? She was willing to go through that just to free her people. So I put it in the, in the hands of everyone else, like I'm putting it in my own hands, is that the smallest and or biggest things that we can do is tell ourselves that I. We know that there are things that are wrong. We're gonna do something about it. We're gonna tell our children that there's always something you can do about it, even if it's just us going down to city hall and asking questions or going to the school board meeting and asking questions, even if it's us asking our energy supplier. Why are you overcharging me? Are you overcharging my neighbors, talking to your neighbors? Like, are you being overcharged? Are you being overcharged? Where is this coming from? So, you know, or getting together and having a community garden so we can feed ourselves so we don't have to worry about the food prices.

Dr 43:25

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 43:26

little small things go a long way. Giving donating clothes, donating diapers, donating whatever you have that you don't need in ex, because we have a lot of access in this

Dr 43:36

Oh, absolutely we do.

Leroy Smith 43:37

know, whatever we can do to help, whether it's, you have, you just had a bunch of kittens, you had a lit of kittens, and you know, your neighbor next door is an elderly person who needs company. You're giving the kitten to that person because you want that person to have a therapy animal or have something to care for. So I think those are the small ways we can do things that make a huge difference. Um, I, I, I think the enemy wants us to. Be disempowered and, and disenfranchised and, and I'm not one to allow it to happen because the life that I've lived, I've seen down a barrel of a gun a few times. And the one thing that you know, my father instilled in me is when these things happen, your enemy wants you to run away and hide.

Dr 44:18

Yeah, absolutely.

Leroy Smith 44:19

for us to run away and hide. This is time for us to say, you know what? Stuff is hitting the fan. It is time for us to figure out what are the, the I can do to help myself and to help others, um, in the most genuine ways possible. And I think that's how we resist, and I think that's the thing that's gonna get us through this iteration of what we're all going through as human beings.

Dr 44:42

Yes. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I totally agree with you. Like isn't the time to be silent? They do want us to be feel disempowered. And, uh, disenfranchised and I think all the things you said are so important, right? The resistance always finds a way. So whatever that can look like

Leroy Smith 45:01

Mm-hmm.

Dr 45:02

you as an individual,

Leroy Smith 45:04

Mm-hmm.

Dr 45:04

um, to stand up for what is right for people and share that with other people, that just makes it better for the collective. So, absolutely. I keep saying that, I'm like, now is not the time to be silent. Now is not the time. Right. Someone asked me, oh, are you going to change the name of your podcast? I was like, Nope.

Leroy Smith 45:26

Mm-hmm.

Dr 45:27

Nope. Um, I can be mindful, like there are lots of ways to talk about

Leroy Smith 45:31

Yeah.

Dr 45:32

what it is we do, just like you were saying. Um, but I'm not gonna change the name,

Leroy Smith 45:37

Mm-hmm.

Dr 45:38

um, because this is what we're talking about,

Leroy Smith 45:40

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr 45:43

like I recently had someone say something about wanting to be on the podcast, but one that doesn't wanna use the word equity. I'm like, uh, well you probably can't be on my podcast 'cause that's an actual title. Like.

Leroy Smith 45:52

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr 45:56

Bless your heart, but, I think those are such wise words of wisdom and I, and I don't wanna detract from that, um, with whatever it is I'm about to say, but. No, it was just so powerful for everyone to hear and to end on. And I think it's important for people to remember and lean on. So it, and I think if you don't know some of those things, learn about some of these things. So you can also feel you don't, 'cause you don't know what you don't know, but if you go and learn, I know you were talking about like slave revolts. Um, I don't know if you read Dr. Rebecca Hall's book Wake. It's about women involved in the slave revolts.

Leroy Smith 46:36

No, not yet. It's a, it is in my, it is in my, uh, what do you call it? My cart. I'm

Dr 46:40

You're like TBR, like your car. Okay. Highly recommend.

Leroy Smith 46:44

I'm gonna, I'm gonna get it now. 'cause you're like the third person, like in the past like two months and I've had it, I had a, a few books sitting in my cart. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna get

Dr 46:51

Okay.

Leroy Smith 46:52

by me.

Dr 46:53

You definitely need to do that. I'll have to message you. I can't remember which episode it was, but I, I talked with the educator who uses it with her students and like takes their perspective. It's so, so cool. And she has a second book coming out we just heard, but.

Leroy Smith 47:05

Oh my gosh, that is so cool.

Dr 47:07

Yes. It's so cool. I'll send it to you because some of the stuff that they did was amazing and I think it would align a lot with

Leroy Smith 47:12

Yes.

Dr 47:13

is you do.

Leroy Smith 47:13

to do that.

Dr 47:14

Yeah, yeah. Um, okay, so I know we're kind of coming to the end of our time and I know you just gave us like so many amazing nuggets, but is there like one piece of advice that you would want people to leave with around, you know, wanting to engage with this work? What would you say with them?

Leroy Smith 47:32

I would say engaging. Engaging the work with equity starts with you, and starts with you kind of like learning a lot more about yourself, um, and learning a lot more about the people that you love. Learning about the people that are just in your community. I think that's the, that's the starting point. I think it's very hard to say, do a solution you don't really know the people that you're doing that for often. That's the thing I feel like people do. They propose solutions, but they never really talk to the people who the solution is for. they don't really live among the people. They don't ask some questions. So I would say start with yourself and, you might learn along the way. There's some things that you need to learn. You might learn

Dr 48:17

Mm.

Leroy Smith 48:17

way that there might be questions that you have and you, I think often the work of equity, you know, makes you more courageous. a lot of people already have a level of courage with them, think when you're in the work of making things fair for people, it gives you a level of, um, courage that you can't get anywhere else. It kind of pushes you to see yourself as not just a singular individual thing or entity, but that you are part of a connective piece of human history. That history is being made every day you wake up. History is being made every day that you ask a question

Dr 48:58

Yes.

Leroy Smith 48:58

that you, um, support. So I think that's the, the, the piece I want people to walk with is start with yourself. Ask yourself the tough questions. I, the one question I ask myself every day is, did the way I was raised impact how I see the world? And the answer to that is always, yes.

Dr 49:17

Yes.

Leroy Smith 49:17

I see, I see the world um, you know, my girlfriend, she's a psychologist, so she actually, she's, she always makes fun of me for this. see the world as kind of like in the words Apollo, you know, fair, you know, Apollo farrier and, and pedagogy of presses. Um, but. This world has people who are willing to break the chains of oppression. And there are some people who want the chains of oppression to be here.

Dr 49:43

Yes.

Leroy Smith 49:44

and so I say reflect upon yourself because believe it or not, we might be in, in his words, we might be in a false reality where we think that we're actually producing solutions for people to break their chains. But if, if anything, exchanging your change for a different kind of oppression

Dr 49:59

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 50:00

knowing, um, because we're not investigating ourselves and we're not. Being in community with others to really know exactly what they need to, to, to thrive. so that's why I say that because I don't want you to go out and just think, oh, I'm just gonna read a bunch of research papers and it's, I'm gonna have all the answers. I'm read all the books, I'm gonna have all the answers. I'm just gonna go into the and to whatever community and just do these things. And then all the people in that community gonna be grateful for it. No, just check yourself

Dr 50:27

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 50:28

in with others and see. What it is that they need. Because like I said, my neighbor's on this block. I know one of my elderly neighbors, she likes getting plants. That's what she needs to feel good in her retirement. But another elderly neighbor next door, she loves all her little cats that run around and that's something that she needs. And they live right next to, to each other. Pretty much the same age. there's older black women in Baltimore in, in a. Mixed income community, and guess what They approach, what they need for healing two different ways.

Dr 50:58

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 50:58

Um, so just checking in with people and checking in with yourself, I think is the easiest thing to do. And, and it makes it, it makes the equity work feel manageable because I think a lot of people tap out of the work because they feel like it's too big that they can't solve

Dr 51:11

Yeah.

Leroy Smith 51:12

But when you check in with yourself and you check in with others, it feels a lot more manageable.

Dr 51:16

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It always starts with awareness of self because then that influences how we interact with others. So thank you for that nugget and for all the gems that you dropped today. It's been such a pleasure, Lee, to have you on the podcast. Thank you for joining us.

Leroy Smith 51:34

It was true. Pleasure.

Dr 51:36

All right, everyone. Thank you for joining us for another episode of The Equity Hour. You can find a link to the book Wake Plus Leroy's website in the show notes. Until next time, thanks.