Dramatically Increase Student Engagement with Project Based Learning with Ryan Steuer of PBL Simplified

Do you ever feel like your students are bored and disinterested during lessons? 😴 Are you frustrated with scripted curriculum that leaves no room for creativity? 😤 As teachers, we want our students to be engaged and empowered, not passive. That's where project-based learning (PBL) comes in! 💡

To dig into this student-centered teaching method, I interviewed Ryan Steuer, former engineer, turned middle school teacher turned PBL expert. Ryan is the host of the PBL Simplified podcast 🎙️, the driving force behind the best PBL resources out there, and has a mission that should set you on 🔥 

You do NOT want to miss the conversation! My favorite parts:

When Ryan breaks down some sample projects ranging from first graders to high schoolers. These ideas will set your teacher's soul on fire!

Ryan's advice on how to give students "voice and choice" without throwing them into overwhelm.

How project-based learning is GREAT for teachers and students - reinvigorate your teaching and avoid burnout by making learning relevant again! 🔥

And do not miss all the great resources that Ryan so generously shares.

CHECK OUT THESE AMAZING RESOURCES to get you started with Project Based Learning ⬇️

• Free PBL Simplified ebook - Get the basics at no cost
• PBL Simplified Book and Book Study
• YouTube video series - 52 videos explaining PBL fundamentals - also FREE
• PBL Movement online community - Online courses and support use code GRACE for 40% off

➡️ To get your FREE 🎁 PDF Guide The Professional Teacher's Guide to Saying "No" visit: www.gracestevens.com/sayno

Want to truly thrive in teaching without sacrificing your personal life?   
Check out my signature on-demand self-study course, Balance Your Teacher Life.  Complete details here: www.gracestevens.com/balance

📘 My latest (and greatest!) book:
The Empowered Teacher Toolkit
Check out the best-selling Positive Mindset Habits for Teachers book here
Beat Teacher Burnout with Better Boundaries book here

My TPT Store: https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/store/grace-stevens-happy-classrooms

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Transcript

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 Alright teacher friends, this is an episode that must not be missed. Listen, if you are tired of seeing your students eyes glaze over, you're tired of scripted curriculum that leaves you no creativity, this episode is for you. We're going to talk about Project based learning, but in a new way that you haven't thought about it before.

It is an amazing way to tackle boredom, transform classrooms, really engage students. And if nothing else, even if you're like project based learning is not for me, you are going to want to listen to the stories that. Ryan Steuer brings today, there are so many fantastic things happening in education and a lot of them are around this topic.

So my guest today is Ryan Stoyer, who is the force behind Project Based Learning Simplified. It is an amazing movement. I was on his podcast before I even had a podcast and I was so in love with his vision. His passion that I knew he was going to be one of the first guests that I wanted on. He is going to really demystify PBL for you.

And he is going to give so many amazing free resources. You're not even going to believe it. I'm so excited for us to get going with this conversation. And I will see you on the inside.  Welcome to the Balance Your Teacher Life podcast, where we talk all things avoiding educator burnout, setting healthy boundaries, and achieving better work life balance.

If you're passionate about education, but tired of it consuming your whole life, you have found your home in the podcast universe. I'm your host, Grace Stevens, and let's get going with today's show. 

So welcome to the show, Ryan, and I'm going to start with your bio. I think it is. Fascinating. I know it's awkward to sit there where people read the bio, but it is really, I'm always fascinated with second career teachers, but you really got something going on here. So Ryan Stoyer launched his first project based learning middle school in the United States of America and is the founder of Magnify Learning, a PBL professional development organization that equips teachers, instructional coaches, and principals across the country to engage learners Tackle boredom and transform classrooms.

Prior to founding Magnify Learning, Ryan was an engineer for a Fortune 50 company, an eighth grade English teacher,  and a missionary. Okay, so that's fascinating. I don't think anybody's surprised that you're an eighth grade teacher.  But, but tell us how that whole transition,  missionary, engineer, how did, how did all that come about?

So good. Great question. Way to, way to dive in and do your research, Grace. This is good. Straight for the 

throat, 

Ryan.  So, so I went to Purdue I became an engineer cause my dad was an engineer and it worked for him. He was first generation college student. Right. So it worked for him. So he says, well, your son should do that too.

So I went to go be an engineer up in Chicago and a very large I was up at UPS. It was the largest packaging  center in the world at the time. And we processed a million and a half packages a day. And I was in technology. I was leading people. And then we went and we did, you know, those volunteer pieces that great organizations do, and we would go help United Way for two days in the summer. 

And I was like, I love these United Way days. Like, you know, we're, we're working the afterschool program and just having a blast with kids. And it's like,  those might've been my two favorite days of the year.  Maybe I should rethink some things. So did rethought some things and, you know rethought some values and passion and legacy that I wanted to leave and applied to every school in Indianapolis,  and then. 

A week before school started, I got a reply from a middle school in the Southwest side of Indianapolis and said, Hey, if you can get here, you've got a job.  So I was sleeping on my buddy's couch and  we, and I started my career in education and absolutely loved it. I love eighth graders. You either love or hate eighth graders, right?

There's not usually any gray room right there. So absolutely love that, that space. And then while in the classroom, taught traditionally for a while, then switched to project based learning. And then out of that, we were able to start magnify learning. And in those early days there was some missionary work as well.

There, there were several jobs in fact in order to get things off the ground and get things moving and stuff. 

Wow. Well,  honestly, we're glad you did,  but I think you know, definitely I can relate to that, the piece about, yeah, what do I want my legacy to be? You know, I got to a point in my own. Career where I felt the only value I have was to shareholders and that wasn't really cutting it for me anymore.

And then, you know, my listeners are really familiar with my story that I was stressed, you know, all the things. And then I came to teaching and it was magical. And lo and behold, I created the same circumstances for myself. So,  needed to fix that problem for me. 

It's so good. It's not like there isn't stress in education.

Right. But before it was stressed, like I was making a multi billion dollar company, millions and millions of dollars, and that was my stress. And I was like, well, I'd rather be stressed in the trenches with these eighth graders that are trying to figure out life. Right. And find new opportunities. Like that's stress that I'm like, I'm willing to trade for 

that.

Right. Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. No, I totally get you there. Well, the reason I invited you on, not only because you're fascinating is this fantastic book, PBL simplified six steps to move project based learning from idea to reality. So I you know, I've spoken to you before I was on your podcast and I was kind of fangirling and saying, Oh my God, where were all these resources when I was in the classroom, because this is how I wanted to teach, right.

You know, kind of my background of,  of hacking happiness, one of the huge pieces. A component of happiness is having occupational self direction and, you know, so much of that has been taken out of the classroom with script, with curriculum. It's not engaging for the students and it's certainly not exciting for the teachers.

And so I always looked at project based learning as a way to, kind of counter some of that. And so but really didn't know where to start and didn't have a lot of support on my campus for it either. So I find that your materials are wonderful. So tell us just a little bit about the mission that you have, cause I know you do have a big and then maybe talk us through the six steps real briefly.

Sure. And you know, before I jump into that, I would just, I think you're spot on with the idea of energy. Like when you're on, when you're on the PBL simplified podcast, I appreciate that you're talking to our audience about that idea of energy and it comes from passion and that why and right. And if you're not able to engage that, like this works too hard, right?

The classroom works too hard to not be inspired while you're doing it. So I think you're spot on that. And a lot of that starts with. Knowing your why and having the ability to live out your why. So our, our why at Magnify Learning is the, the big picture is we want 51 percent of schools using project based learning by 2051. 

So that means we've got about 37 years to get the majority of schools, you know, using project based learning so that we're moving kids from passive to empowered. It's really the goal is when our learners leave our K 12 systems.  And sometimes, and a lot of times even higher ed with passivity, and they don't know how to jump in and solve problems or work with people or talk to adults, they're at a huge disadvantage.

Yeah. And some of our learners are getting some of that at home. Some are not. I think most are not no matter where you're coming from, really. And I think what we see is the schools that are really embracing PBL is that they, these kids are empowered. They get into a large university and they will speak up for themselves.

They go right up to the professor and say, Hey,  I'm paying a lot of money to be here and I have no idea what you're talking about. How are you going to help me? Right. And, and not from, you know, this, you have to give, give like not spoon feed me, but it's this idea that they're going to stand up for themselves.

And for the education that they're planning on getting because they know where they're going to go  and it's such a big difference even in, in my educational journey, like I did all the things you were supposed to do in high school. You know, I had a 4. 2, I played three sports, I did all those things and at the end of the day, just like we talked about in the intro, I was like, I became an engineer because my dad was an engineer and some people said I was good at math.

Nobody ever asked me what I wanted to do, what got me excited, what I was passionate about, like, that never came up. I just did what people told me to do.  And  I think it's, I think we do kids a disservice. I don't think we talk about it as much. Yeah, no, I definitely 

see that. Sorry to interrupt you. Yeah.

Like,  like you just follow the steps. Like for, I would say, I know it sounds a cliche, but like I followed all the steps, I climbed all the steps on the ladder.  And then when I took a breath, I realized the ladder was, you know, against the wrong wall. Like this isn't really what I wanted. I was passionate about something else.

But when you said your father was you know, first generation  to go to college, I was the only person in my family who'd ever gone to college. And I just. Kept going forward like, Oh, this is what everybody expects of me to get the good job and to, to do all the things. And then to realize it's something you're not passionate about.

Or,  you know, a lot of the skills that I had to learn to be successful anywhere I found weren't taught in school. I was a very compliant student. I went to a very traditional school. Actually, it was like a convent school  and you know, girls weren't allowed to study science. Oh, Mr. Goodness. I mean, it was the 70s.

We were allowed to study biology in case we wanted to become a nurse. And it was later in life that I realized I had an incredible passion for science. And I did I was lucky to work in a campus. Well, we didn't have a science teacher, but they did let me explore a lot of different things in, do outreach and bring  Retired scientists in to help students and do some projects and other stuff.

And so I found a way to incorporate that, but I remember being a little annoyed about that. Like I would have really enjoyed that had I had a chance. And so when I brought in people to do projects, I would have liked to have had a plan, this kind of roadmap as to here's how you could do it.  So tell people a little bit about the six steps. 

Yeah, sure. So.  Some of it follows a scientific method, right? It, there's this idea of problem solving. And so we put it into six steps and, you know, If you grab PBL simplified, it's right in the introduction and right, right there in the table of contents, you see it. And you also see, as, as you mentioned, grace, this idea of resources, like there are a lot of resources out there at this point, you need to edit them.

You'd customize them, but you don't need to completely create them. There are a lot of things out there now, just like you said, we would have loved to have had those when you were in the classroom, but they're there now. We've created those things. So step one. Is define the problem. So you're going to define the problem.

Maybe you find it in the community. Maybe you bring it to your classroom. Like, Hey class, here's this problem that I've found that, you know, the water in your backyard might not be as clean as it should be. So we're going to go look at that. So you might bring a problem to your class. And I think that's okay.

Like a lot of our learners, they don't know what they're passionate about yet. So you can bring those things into your classroom. If they find it, that's great. It can certainly be. You know, student generated, but I don't think it has to be. The second one is solution criteria.  So here in step two, we're going to say, what would it look like if the problem was solved?

Right. If the problem was solved and the community would know about this water issue that we might have, you know, they right now they don't know. So in the end, you'll have done the research, you'll have advocated for the community and you'll have communicated this to the community and. In pure teacher terms, like in here, this is where your rubric might fit, or like, what do you want the kids to go through?

What are they going to create? And then you're going to go into step three, where they're going to start researching possible solutions. Now you're in a really, this is where a lot of your workshops might be. They might be right in here. So those standards based workshops that you're going to do, they're in this research phase because there's a problem now, this big problem they're trying to solve for the community, not just for a test, right?

Not just for the state, for the community. But there are things they don't know and there are these standards based things that they don't know. So they're gonna have a lot of science standards. They're gonna have language arts standards in our example of things that they're gonna write about.  In step four, they're going to narrow those solutions down.

They're gonna pick one of those solutions that they've researched and they're gonna run into step five. And they're going to test that solution. They're gonna see if it works. They're going to probably find out that it doesn't work right away because if it's a real world problem, it's, it's difficult.

There are a lot of variables. So then they're gonna have to retest to find a better solution. And then they're going to present that solution in our case to the community. They're going to say, here's what we think would be the best possible steps for us to have clean water. And they're going to present that, let's say at the library to a larger, a larger audience, and then the step six, they're going to reflect, they're going to say, Hey, we just did some really neat work out in the community.

Like,  what did we learn? How did we do that? And this is a real easy place to start with some voice and choice in your classroom and just, this is where you get to be transparent and say, Hey, we just did a four week PBL unit. What are some things you really liked about it? What are some things that you might change for the next one? 

And let your learners start to talk about, you know, how they want to learn. Because most of the time, they don't get asked in any way. And so if you can be the teacher that asks, and then just find one thing. They're always going to ask for more time, you can't always give them more time, right? They always want to work with their friends, you can't always do that.

But find one thing that you can do. Okay, what if we got the rubric a little bit earlier, Mr. Story, would that work?  Yeah, we can do that. And then you tell them, Hey, I'm giving you the rubric earlier because you asked and I listened, right? And, and now they're like, wow, you value my voice. You want to listen to me? 

And they tend to speak up a lot more. So those are the steps that we 

walk through. All right. So something, so many things, like I was making notes, like so many things going off in my mind. First of all, I have to say I know I'm going to ask you at the end and you're going to give me all the details, all the place people can go get you.

More information and I know you have a ton of free stuff, but first off, let me just say, especially as an author myself, I appreciate this book is, you know, 8. 50, I mean, there's no, there's no, nobody can say I can't afford that book, right? Textbooks, books for teachers are so expensive and I really, really appreciate that's my, my teacher soul that is still like, you know, on this really small fixed budget that I really appreciate that.

The other thing, that I love about the book is that it has really it breaks down, you know, the right way to do it and the wrong way to do it. Like at the end of the chapter, you have a couple of scenarios, it  wasn't good. So that I find like is really helpful because you know, when  nobody wants to feel like they've got a sales pitch.

pitch, like this is going to be great. Like it's education. We don't produce widgets here. We have children we, right. We have varying circumstances all the time. Nothing is simple. Well, it's simple, but it's not easy. Right? So it's good to know where kind of those potential pitfalls can be. So I do, I want to talk about that in a minute, but the first thing you said that I really appreciated.

Was that it's okay for the teacher to come with the idea, because I know when I  tried what I thought was project based learning before, I really tried to go with like that Google method, right? The passion project and come to figure out that was really overwhelming for some students. They didn't know what they were passionate about other than, you know, video games.

We're not  doing 10 projects on, you know, roadblocks or whatever.  So I feel that's really an important starting point.  And the other things that I really appreciate, because what I really tried, when I kind of looked at my own  compass in the classroom, what do I think is really important? Other than, you know, the curriculum, I mean, that's a discussion for another day, right?

Do we still need to be learning all these things, right? When there are other resources out there. Like, I really try to encourage students, like the skills I thought they needed. think that they need that I felt was lacking in my education. And some cookie cutter education is, you know, the critical thinking skills you know, evaluating when you're researching, evaluating for bias, like that's such a skill that is missing.

And it's so critical. And I feel like this project based learning is a lovely place to practice all of those skills. But I do want to ask you, what do you think, I mean, it's going to look different depending on the range. I know you focused on, you know, eighth grade, middle school.  Do you feel that there's, how do you feel it can be integrated for younger students?

What might that look like, 

do you think? Yeah, great question. So, you know, we partner with schools anywhere from preschool up into college. So, how are we going to look at that? P 20. So it, it works in all, all places. When you look at Let's say like younger, younger grades, if you look like P2, right? Like if you go preschool to second grade, that's kind of a window.

And then three to six is another window, right? Then you get into secondary. So if you've got some younger kids, I think one of the, one of the examples I liked, I think is pretty simple. And I think helps is a lot of first grade classrooms are going to look at first responders, right? It's a standard that hits a lot of times and the fire department's going to come in.

You're going to go through a fire truck, you know, and those kinds of things, which is really engaging. It's not necessarily a PBL yet, right? But how could it be? So let's say that instead of just walking through a squad car or something like that, what if the learners were engaged in a fundraiser to, you know, raise supplies for the K 9 unit?

All right, so the K 9 unit comes in, they launch the project  and then  the learners start to create. Let's say posters for the community and maybe they do a couple of talks like they go to the library and cute little kids talking like that. That wins every time, right? Like I love first graders and ties.

So  then when you hear them speak intelligently about this idea, like, Hey, this is really important because, you know, the canine Hank needs this so he can work with his trainer and all these different things. And then what I've seen some really great first grade teachers do is then they start to adjust, some of the curriculum, so they might still have, you know, this literacy book that they have to go through in some form of scope and sequence, and they might move it around a little bit, but let's say.  That they have some words that they're supposed to learn long I with, right. But they're doing a first responder unit.

So why not change some of those to fire? Right. And then maybe firefighters in there somewhere, they're going to work with that GH it's real tricky. And, and so what I see great teachers doing is they get out their, their literacy book that they have to teach from, and they start crossing some things out, like we're not going to use these words, we're going to use words that relate to the PBL unit that we're doing. 

And what happens is now they're using this umbrella, the context of the PBL unit. For learners to understand they're learning, right? So instead of spelling words that don't relate to what they're doing most of the day, they now have spelling words that they're talking about, right? Do they have this extra context?

I kind of call it extra handles, right? 

So these extra connections really makes, you know, back in the day. Yeah, well, back in the day when we used to have our little thematic units, and then those went away, right, when when the scripted curriculum came in, and then  I know for sure in California, like with the NGSS, the Next Generation Scientific Standards, there was, made this big hoopla about the Proscriptive connections.

It's like, that's what we were doing 20 years ago before you took it away. Right. So it's making it relevant and, and seeing how it all connects. That's a really good example. I love that. And come on, what first graders aren't going to be excited if they're excited about the firetruck, they're even more excited about the firehouse dog.

So I definitely get that.  What would you say? are some  common mistakes that people make, some, some, some easy things to avoid. Well, you, 

you kind of mentioned one, Grace, that I think is pretty common, that, that the learners have to choose everything in a PBL unit. Yeah. And I would say that that's a higher level move, right?

Yeah. So if you're just getting into PBL. I look at voice and choice as a spectrum. So if you're just getting into PBL, your learners are just getting into PBL, you might not have as much voice and choice involved in that. You still want, you want to get there, right? So you want to move it down the continuum.

But if you're moved, you said, well, I saw this, I went and visited this school, which is a great idea, and they were doing this. Like, their voice is way down here, right? They picked their own solution. They picked the problem. They picked how they presented it. Like that's true. Those kids may have been in a PBL environment for the last five years, right?

And everybody's teaching that direction. So they're used to that. They're accustomed to that. They have those skills. If your learners don't. It's okay. Like, now I don't think you should just bring in a canned PBL unit that you get off of teachers pay teachers. I'm super comfortable saying that, right? You should still create it from standards because your learners are different than other learners.

Yeah. If you're in Missouri, your learners are different than learners in Texas. If you're in an urban area, they're different than rural, right? You know your learners, so you still need to customize it. I think that's important.  Bye. It's okay for you to bring in the problem and say, Hey, learners, we're excited about fixing this.

Are you excited about fixing this? And, and they will be right. They want to help out in the community. All learners do. So don't make it too open ended to start with. And I think that's okay.  But  

have the scaffold, right? And that's what you folks can provide, right? Because just like  the students need scaffolding, so do the teachers.

It's not how we used to, especially like I said, you know, I taught for a long time.  There are newer teachers out there who all they know is how to write. Everybody has the same objective on the board the same day, right? Everybody's on the same page of the, of, of, of the unit on the same day. That's the only thing they know, then they're going to need scaffolding.

So tell us where let's, well, there are two things.  Sorry for asking two questions at once,  we'll see how you do. Well, the first one, let me ask you, this is,  let's say that a teacher's really passionate about this and they're like, yeah, I want to learn more. I want to do more, but they really feel like maybe their teammates, you know, they're part of a grade span and you know, those teachers who, let's say there's a difference between teaching  10 years.

And teaching the same year, 10 times. Yeah, sure. Absolutely.  Absolutely. So let's say some of your teammates, teachers who taught the same year, 10 times, like they're not really maybe open to something new or your admins, like we don't have time for that. Right? Like that's not on the test. Right. So what would you say to those teachers who really want to get started?

How can they get the buy in from their teammates or their admin?  

So there's a lot of different ways. First you need training, right? So like you mentioned, there's a lot of different ways to do that, right? Like you can get  like your whole school, right? Like that's, that's going to be a pretty expensive endeavor, right?

And then you've got, you could come individually, right? Which is still going to be a, not a high ticket item, but it's a conference, right? But like you mentioned, you can get the book for 10 bucks and I'll even give you the free ebook, right? Like we'll put that in the show notes somewhere. So you get the free ebook and you can get a free book study. 

And one of the best ways to do this, because it's, it's so non intrusive, is to invite people to the book study and say, Hey, I'm interested in learning about this. Would you like to learn about this with me?  I'm not the expert coming in and telling you what to do in your classroom, right? Because we all know walls go up as soon as, as soon as the consultant comes in.

Right? Like I felt this.  For a decade now, I know, right. But as a teacher, a colleague that says, Hey, I think this is a neat idea. Would you explore it with me? I've got a free ebook that I can give you and a free book study we can go through.  Right. And then if, if that goes well, like there's free video series that you can get a part of, right?

So you can start with this. That's kind of. Not a low bar, but  maybe an easy hurdle. Maybe it is a low bar, right? But you can lower the bar for your colleagues where they don't have to make a big jump that feels scary. But they can actually help you and, and everybody wants to help somebody. So I think it's a great way to start.

So a great way to start, obviously you've got the, the, the free videos, you've got a podcast, you've got all those things. So that is  really, really helpful. Like I said, there's a scaffold out there. There are resources to help you, but what about the admin who tells you we don't have time for that? 

I'll, I'll give you my, my story a little bit is that's actually how we started.

I just, I had a colleague that said, Hey, I think this could work. And I was in a place where I was teaching traditionally and I wasn't seeing the results that I wanted. Right. It's not why I left engineering. I wanted to see something better for our learners. I was like, yeah, I'll look into that. I didn't totally commit.

I said, I'll look into that. And we tried some things, they worked. We showed that they worked in our individual classrooms. We kept track of stories. We kept track of some data and then basically kind of said, Hey boss, right? Here's what we're thinking. And we came up with this bigger plan of a school within a school.

And then we started getting some more resources, but essentially we built a really good argument that said, this is really good for kids in our school. Cause I've tried it in my classroom. We've done the research. Here's our plan. And it was a lot of work. And like we did the book study on Sunday morning before school started.

And we invited anybody, and the crazy people that came, right, are the ones that we did it with, right? So you just have to kind of find your own crazy, right, to go and do this adventure with. But the admin came on board because we had already done it, right? We'd done it and we kept track of the success stories and said, Hey, look what Luis did in my classroom.

And the principal's like, well, I know Luis, and he doesn't do work in anyone's classroom. I know, but, but he didn't mind when we did this, did this PBL unit. This could work for other students, I think. And it was enough to say, you know what, I think that's worth trying. And we were given kind of a pilot period, and we, it ended up we had 25 percent of the kids, we had only 8 percent of the discipline,  in a very large, in a pretty large middle school we had a 2 percent higher attendance rate,  and in a failing school we would have been a B on standardized tests.

So once all those things kind of come out, right. It's  the admin says, well, yeah, that makes 

a lot of sense. That gets a lot of attention, doesn't it? That gets the admin sitting up well, cause then it reflects well on them. So I really did say that. Yes, I did. So.  What I'm hearing you say maybe is which I'm really down with, because I know you know me, you're an energy teacher more than your lesson plans.

The other thing that I really lived by as a teacher  and I kind of advocate is that you say yes, and you're open minded and you say yes, and you're open minded to all the new initiatives that come through every year. And then when you close your door. You're a revolutionary, like you follow your own compass, right?

Yeah, that's good. You follow your compass. Like I know what worked for my students. I know why I got into teaching. And so there were things that I did that it's one of those, you know, like the cliche, you know, do first, ask, ask permission later. So maybe try it.  Make sure the results are measured and tangible and something that is going to be real attractive to your admin and then take it to them and say, look, this is what I did.

This is what's happened. And I really see it as a way to. You know, we know this. So many of the behavior problems are because the students aren't engaged and they're not interested. So if they're engaged, there's going to be such less to manage. You can put your energy into the good stuff, not into the stuff that really, you know, drains your battery and is burning teachers out.

So I think it's like a win, win, win for everybody. So I would encourage listeners that if you really feel, firstly, test your assumptions, don't just assume like, Oh my God, we'll never go for it. Right. You don't know.  Maybe they have a passion for it and nobody's, and they're feeling they don't want to overwhelm their staff with anything new, right?

Admins get so much pushback, like we can't take on any new initiatives. Maybe it is something your admin's been really wanting to try, but is afraid to kind of overburden teachers. So don't, you know, test the assumption first. Maybe they are interested, but then if they're not, maybe in your own little revolutionary way, you do a modified version, you use the tools and the scaffolding that's available to you for, like you said, a very, very little cost of entry there and and be sure to measure the results.

I think that would be really, really good place for people 

to start. Can I add one more thing? Can I add one more thing to that part of the conversation is you. You really need to think about, one, I love the revolutionary aspect but, and I could talk to there a little bit if you want, but you need to think through the lens of your admin.

You kind of mentioned that, like, so I look at it as currency, like what's the currency for your admin and it's still, it's always test scores. It still is, even though we don't want it to be, it still is. And it's community perception, right? Like your, your admin is really concerned and they should be how the community perceives your school.

Because honestly, if that goes sideways. Then he or she's likely going to be fired. Right? So when you look at that, then you go to your admin and say, Hey, I think PBL is a way for us to bring in community partners and help our community perception. And I think what I see is PBL can bring us some, some projects, some outcomes that end up in the newspaper because it does, like, that's one of the great things about it.

I think  but if you go to your principal and just say, Hey, I want to teach this way, cause I think it's good for me while that's true. And it is good.  It's not quite the same language. Does that make sense? Yeah, 

no, no, it does make sense. And I always coach teachers, like, you know, even, you know, I coach on boundaries, like, you need to give a student focused reason. 

You're not going to say, I can't do that because, you know, I have child care issues or I work too many hours. It has to be a student focused reason. It has to be. It doesn't meet the best needs of my students because X, Y, and Z, right? So, yeah, if you're giving a student focused reason, this is best. For students particularly, you know, the students that I know and that I have.

And yeah, I think you're exactly right. That their currency is, yeah, is going to be community perception and it is going to be less kids in their office. I mean, that's just  

another great one, right? Is  Louise is more engaged.  

Yeah, exactly. He's more engaged. He's not in your office is one less thing for you to have to worry about.

So I think that's, I think that's wonderful. All right. Well, I think. Definitely  for, for, for anybody who's listening, who thinks, you know, this is kind of the way I've been wanting to teach. I can see this could really work for my students. I love the example that you gave of the, I think it's hard for people to kind of like the students when you give them too many choices, right?

Like we're not. Not sure what we're passionate about. When you told me the example of like the, you know, the firehouse dog, I was all, I taught first grade for nine years. I'm like, Oh, I would love that. We, in fact, we did a big, we did do a big project on saving part of the rainforest and the students and I did a really good job of that.

I still have the, I still have the frame picture of how much of the rainforest we saved and, and that really came out of something they were interested in. Which you might think deforestation is, is a big topic for first graders, but they rose to the occasion because they just love all those rainforest animals.

Right. So, but could you give me like, just top of your head, tell me a couple of your favorite projects that you ever did. 

A  great one was we had a DNA specialist come in and a doctor's office come in and say, you know, Every day, there are parents that find out that their child has a genetic disease.

Mm hmm. There are two things they want to know. The first one is, is my child going to be okay? And the second thing is they want to know everything there is to know about that genetic disease. Hey, eighth graders, would you help us with the second one,  help these parents know everything there is to know about these genetic diseases. 

And every kid's head went up, right. And in an area where, you know, before PBI had 20 percent of kids that just failed, they had less than 30 percent same kids, right. Their head goes up because they want to help someone. It's like, this is real work that someone's really going to see. They're going to be able to understand their child better because of the work that I do.

And then the work literally goes into doctor's offices, right? Like that's, Yeah. Ah, it's just, it's so amazing,  right?  And if you have an eighth grade teacher out there, like you hear the standards in that, right? Like you hear the punnett squares in there. You hear the biology pieces. You hear the descriptive writing that's happening there.

The technical writing, like it's all lumped in there  and it's so tangibly real it just gets really exciting.  Oh, 

that's awesome. Wow.  So, before we get into all the ways you can help people and where to find you, you know, this is I am known for positive mindset habits for teachers. I like to keep it upbeat and I like to ask people, you know, tell me something that's going right in education because we all know what's going wrong.

We want to hear what's going right. So I think everything about what you said is what's going right. But can you maybe tell me like a story about  a teacher who's doing this right right now or an admin that's leading right now in the way that they 

should? Yeah. So we've got a group in Lexington, Kentucky, and two years ago, their school was a D.

On the standardized tests, right? And, and technically a blue, if you're  in that state, right? But they brought in project based learning. They had to redo their playground and the learners were the ones that planned it. And the learners wanted it to be accessible for everyone. What if, what if a child comes in a wheelchair?

What if a child comes and they have a visual disability? What if a child comes? What if a child, what if, what if, and all these kids put so much thought in his playground and then they put in that playground,  right? Two years later, testors come out. They're in a, they're at the top,  at the top in just two years.

And they did it right. They did it with culture. They did it with engagement, they did it with rigor, right? They're still doing all of those things. They didn't sidestep any of those things and they still have the same learners, right? But they're, they're engaged. Every time there's a problem at the school, like every teacher is like, my kids can solve that, right?

I want to bring that to my kids  because the kids are trying to solve those things as they're going through their academic.  That's,  

that's amazing, really. That's, that is the stuff of goosebumps. All right. This has been amazing. I, I know you are so busy, so I totally appreciate how much time you took to explain to everybody, you know, maybe some of the misconceptions that we had, and I would love for you to tell us All the ways that people can get started, you know, it's, it's like anything, there's going to be different levels of support that they can have, but let's start with, if you were like, you know, on the budget with the 10 book and the free book study and listening to the podcast, but where else can people find you?

Where can they learn? Where can they become part of your vision and your mission? 

Sure. Happy to do that. And Grace, just, just in case I don't get a chance, I really appreciate your mission and this podcast of bringing positivity to education. There are so many things going right. That we just don't hear about and it takes work and dedication and some revolutionary acts.

Right. But  right. But there's others out there. And I think that's why this podcast can be such a great beacon of hope is like, bring together those revolutionaries and let us know that there's. We're not alone. It's a really big deal. So thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you for saying 

that. I appreciate it.

So where can we find you? Let's get on this bus. 

So if you get, if you go get the books, go get, you know, there's a YouTube series called PBL Simplified, all free. 52 videos  that you and your team can walk through. The next step up is we now have the PBL Movement online community. I've actually got this free download and it's like the free download is five reasons that your principal should send you to the online community.

And my favorite one is that for the cost of a one day conference, you get a full year of support.  So the cost of a one day conference, you have full year, so a dollar a day, it's 365. You get into the community and you get all our, you get on demand courses. So you can walk through the community partner workshop.

You can walk through how to do your first PBL, but you also get a private Facebook group. So if you have a just in time question, like, Hey, my community partner is not answering me. What do I do? Or I've got an entry event coming up or, Hey, I've got these standards and I'm not sure what to do. You have people you can ask.

And what I think the secret sauce is going to be and is, is that we actually mediate this community. So there are a lot out there where, you know, it's just kind of community talking to community, which I believe in that. But you need somebody to stir the pot. You need somebody to be in there, right? To make sure every question gets answered.

So that, that's my guarantee is that we answer every single question  because I've, I've been in those communities where you ask a question, you just hear crickets and you're like,  well, why am I in here? You know, so you've got an engaged community behind you supporting you. You are not alone. So that would probably be the next level up that I think people could could engage with us in. 

That 

is amazing. All right. So I'm going to put all the links to YouTube, to the free ebook all those things to the to the, I love this idea, the five reasons, right? That you can go give that to your, like, you'd let somebody else convince them. And  somebody who's an expert at that. So that's fantastic.

So I'm going to put all of those inside the show notes. I have enjoyed this conversation really so much. I'm sure the listeners have too. I'm sure it's sparked off lots of different ideas. It's making me a little disappointed that I'm not in the classroom right now, that I can go run with them.

But there are other ways I can support educators other than being in the classroom. I've had to, to make peace with that fact. So thank you so much, Ryan. I wish you continued success. I hope we're both around in, in 2051. To see if you have, I have no doubt that you will reach your mission. And on behalf of all the listeners, thanks for everything you do.

And listeners, you know, I'm going to say,  create your own roads and bring your own sunshine. And I will talk to you all next week.