The Twin Therapists Podcast
Drs. Jude and Julius Austin, identical twin brothers, lift the curtain on the "doing" of psychotherapy. With unwavering honesty, raw vulnerability, and unwavering compassion for the complexities of the human condition, they illuminate the path for both fledgling clinicians and seasoned professionals alike. The Twin Therapists podcast is your gateway to a world where healing meets humanity, leaving no stone unturned in the relentless pursuit of understanding the depths of the human soul.
The Twin Therapists Podcast
Every Therapist is Just Figuring It Out as They Go
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Therapy isn't about perfection—it's about practice. Two seasoned counselor educators reunite to tackle one of the most profound challenges facing new therapists: finding authenticity in clinical work.
Breaking through the idealized image of the flawless therapist, we explore why students often hide behind passive, non-directive approaches rather than bringing their genuine selves into the therapy room. The conversation reveals how our own unmet relational needs inevitably emerge during sessions, creating opportunities for growth if we're willing to examine them honestly.
"You can't go into therapy perfect. You can't go into it healed. You can't go into it ready," we acknowledge, highlighting the transformative power of simply showing up and practicing the art of human connection. Through humorous anecdotes about everything from backyard trampolines to our days as young soccer players navigating cultural differences, we demonstrate the value of bringing your full, imperfect self to professional relationships.
The discussion particularly resonates for therapists approaching that crucial 700-hour mark, when confidence begins to emerge and the ability to confront unhealthy patterns becomes possible. We challenge the "helpfulness conundrum" that leads new therapists to judge sessions as "good" or "bad" based solely on immediate outcomes rather than relational depth.
Whether you're a counseling student terrified of making mistakes or a seasoned clinician looking to reconnect with your authentic voice, this candid conversation offers permission to practice, fail, repair, and grow—the true heart of therapeutic work.
If you have any questions about any counseling related topics or would like the twins to share their thoughts about a particular counseling case - reach out with the info below:
https://thetwintherapists.com/
Instagram: thetwintherapists
Contact: thetwintherapists@gmail.com
Podcast Reunion After Years
Speaker 1Where are your bodyguards ? Yeah , yeah , yeah , let me see . Let me see . Okay , now we're talking , now we're talking . Yeah , now I can see you . Yeah , you got me , you got me . Yeah , what you trying to talk about today like that , bro , I got some stuff , man , but yeah , well , you know , I just kind of want to check in . The last time we did this was who ? Uh , 97 , 90 , 96 , 97 . Uh , the last time we did this , a lot of our listeners weren't even born yet , you know . So , come on , come on , yeah , it's yeah , you . You call me and told me that the streets were talking . The streets were were talking .
Speaker 1Yeah , man , one of my students burst into my room with all kinds of excitement , talking about hey , hey , hey , hey , where's the podcast at ? Hold on , let me turn my headphones down , bro , because you're screaming at me right now . Oh , my bad , my bad , big dog . You're screaming , oh my bad , like , hey , look at your levels , man , your level's all in the red . Yeah , I'm just excited to be here , big dog . I'm just excited to be here , man , I miss talking to you . What kind of Crayola shirt you got on , like that , bro . Yeah , bro , this is not a sponsorship , but it's a shirt brought to you .
Speaker 1This episode is brought to you by One Bone , wow , no , no , no , I've been there . To be honest , man , the faculty , well , the dress code at UL is a little laxed . You know In a good way , oh , in a good way , in a good way , man , but you know how Ied . You know In a good way , oh , in a good way , in a good way , man , but you know how I mean . You know how I come , you know , yeah , but y'all , public school though , yeah , you know how I come through . Yeah , they lucky if they don't see me in a three-piece suit .
Speaker 1So it's been a little weird . I've been having to , like , you know , like , really do some like re-engineering of what my , yeah , what my , because , listen , man , if I walked in there in a suit jacket , they'd be like what funeral are you going to ? Who died ? Who died ? What time does it start ? Where's the repass ? Where's the rep ? Yeah , man . So I don't know , bro , I've been getting a lot of stuff , a lot of stuff online , so you know , but that's neither here or there .
Speaker 1Man , hey , man , we back , we back , man , yeah , you know , it's bad when students start coming into your office and they're looking at you like okay , man , hey , come on podcast ideals . Yeah , like , okay , man , come up podcast ideals . Yeah , hey , man , hey , I don't know if you ever thought about yeah , I don't know if you guys are still together , like , I don't know if y'all still like each other , but maybe if y'all ever get to the cast again , you could you know . Nah , man , look , look , look , jesus , let's stop kidding ourselves . Man , look , we don't have the time for a weekly podcast . Oh , we have the time . Oh , no , yeah , we have the time . It's you , jude , it's you . We don't have the time . No , it's you .
Speaker 1Now listen , if we wanted to meet less with students and be a little more absent in our program , I can't do that . Sure , I can't do that , man , that one student in question keeps bothering me . Man , that one student in question keeps bothering me . She knows who she is . I have to sit behind her big head in our internship class . I can't even see the video projected on the board . It's bad , that's funny , bro . Nah , man , nah .
Speaker 1But anyway , I'm excited to be here , man , so why'd you call me up here ? What do you want ? Oh , what do you want ? What do you want ? Well , you know , I just figured . How have you been ? How have you been , man ? How's the semester going ? The semester , yeah , it's flying by , it is right . Yeah , man , we already on spring break , it's flying by dog .
Speaker 1I was talking to some of my students the other day , man , like we only have like six weeks left . Oh , yeah , like seven weeks left , yeah , yeah , yeah , I'm teaching a clinical class , so I gotta do , I gotta do ccs's , I gotta do midterm stuff . Yeah , like I didn't even it's like midterm , it's like the middle of the semester , just kind of like jumped up behind some bushes man and and started you and flashed you or something . You know , um , you know it's , it's , it's , yeah , it's crazy . But you know , we , me and megan so we had an ultrasound , uh , about a week and a half ago and , uh , baby is doing great . So , if any , if you're new listener , we're having me and my wife , we're having our fourth kid , and when I say we , I mean she is . I'm just gonna be kind of like hanging out , um , as you do . Yeah , you know just , uh , it's , it's baby number four .
Speaker 1So you don't really get involved until what they like six , seven years old , oh , that's really when you , that's really me personally , you personally , no , no , no . If they have any inkling of being an athlete , then I step in . Oh , that's when you turn it on . Yeah , that's when I step in . Yeah , that's when daddy loves you , daddy loves you and daddy loves you , daddy's here , you know . But if you know , if our kids has the unfortunate you know , like not the unfortunate narp gene , then yeah , I can't . Um , so you just throw a ball
Life Updates and Baby News
Speaker 1at them , you put some cones out right outside of that bed to see if they can . No , I know , I drive my car at . I mean , if they can dodge , if the plyometrics is good , that's like spartan . Yeah , if the shuffle skills is shuffling , then then I know I got something I like to put my kids . We call it real danger training .
Speaker 1Hold on , man , hold on hold on Boop , boop , boop . Let me call them people , bro . Oh , that's how your phone sound . What you got ? An iPhone 6? . You still got the home button on your phone . It's rotary . It's rotary , jesus Christ , boop , you know , you know how it is .
Speaker 1Hey , man , hey , I miss landlines . I miss landlines . Yeah , you miss landlines . I really do , I really do dog Like , honestly , man , honestly , I wish that I could turn my . I mean , it's not that I can't do this , brett , but like turn my cell phone off when I get home and just have the landline . Yeah , so only people who like really know , well , yeah , because . So here's the thing , brett , and I know people , listen , man , listen , man , listen .
Speaker 1We watched the Cosby Show , listen . My kids don't know we got a 1-9 in the front of our birth year . My kids don't know when you got to put in the year of when you were born on a little online thing . You scroll it . It's like the price is right , nah , man . So Theo , yeah , it's like the price is right in this , you ? No , I remember so . So , uh , so so , theo , you know , in the episode , one of the episodes , theo met this girl at this art show and she called . She called him at the house , so the whole family was in the living room I'm watching it with kian and valent , you know and the phone rings and theo picks up the phone and he goes you know Dr Huxtable's residence and Keenan goes what's he doing ? And I was like , oh , he's answering the phone .
Speaker 1You know , back in the day , like when daddy was a kid , they had a house phone and so when you answered it you had to say you know Austin residence . You had to say something like that I want to get a landline just for them to learn how to talk to people . Man , you got to . How to talk to people . It's a hidden skill . It's a hidden skill . It's a skill that it's a hidden skill . I know dog , like you know .
Speaker 1I mean now we have front office people that the COC at our community clinic , you know , that calls and you know and answers clients and all of that stuff . But back in the day we did all that you know , and you had to call them . You had to cold call somebody and be like hey , my name's Jude , I work for the Community Life Center . I saw that you asked about if we could see people . Well , we got an opening . Do you want to set up a time ? Yeah , well , we got an opening , you know . Do you want to set up a time ? Yeah , you know , and god forbid the .
Speaker 1You know the voicemail and you uh , uh , uh , uh , uh , uh , uh . Hi , my name is because you weren't prepared for you know , I want my kids to know how to do all of that stuff , right ? Well , hey , we got in our , in our clinic at ul . We got , you've got students answer the phone , man , we got like , yeah , us too , us too . But I just , you know , sometimes I'll be listening to them , I'll be listening to them freak out when it's their first time answering the phone . Yeah , I'll pick it up , hello , hello , look at that , jump the shoulders , jump up , anyway , man , anyway , anyway , cool man .
Speaker 1So what were you saying about your , uh , your fourth kid ? Yeah , no , no , yeah , man , we went , we had an ultrasound . Everything was good , healthy , um , and you know the , the uh , megan's um due date is the 27th right of April . Oh , okay , and that's like the last day of the semester , you know . So , yeah , I'm just , you know , like just hanging out , man , just like just hanging out , bro , we've been lucky man , we've been lucky .
Speaker 1We have kids on Fridays . Okay , kids on Fridays . Get that weekend . For us it's usually during a break . For our first it was Christmas break , for our second it was Mardi Gras break , for our third it was fall break . This one's going to be in the semester break , it's going to be the summer break . We timing that way . Nah , bro , it's been good , good man , since , since we talked dog , oh , I gotta tell you something , man , like , uh , we just got a text message from
The Nostalgia of Landlines
Speaker 1uh cairo's coach . Right , yeah , I was in in uh in 2016s , right , uh-huh . So he has a tournament this weekend where he has to play two games , and he just got asked to play on the 2015 team 25 . So it's a year up , you know . So he's gonna be a guest player on one of the older , one of the older kids teams , you know , and so that means he's gonna play four games this weekend .
Speaker 1Hey , remember when that happened to us , that's when we got called up to play with the strikers ? Yeah , it was , it was . It was an all-white team , you know , it took me and you were probably hey , remember when that happened to us ? That's when we got called up to play with the Strikers . It was an all-white team and you were probably the only black kids in this team since the history of it , and so we didn't know what to do . And so we were like , okay , dog , we got to look , let's just dive into the culture , man , let's just dive into the culture . What did they say ? What did the whites say ? What did they ?
Speaker 1We started watching uh x games . We said , okay , hey , man , we got to try to use totally and radical uh as many times as possible , man . And so we're in the huddle , me and you is sitting across from each other stretching , and some you know kid will say like hey , and just so , just so y'all know , hey , louisiana , louisiana , white people , different , I think they're different . They're different as you're probably seeing on social media . They're different , you know , and so you know they're talking to me and you look at each other out of the side of an eye , like you know , and I sneak in a little like yeah , man , that's totally awesome . And then we look at each other because the team we played for had black kids , mexican kids , so we got called up to play for the strikers .
Speaker 1It was like you gotta be on time , you gotta have the right uniform . When coach says yeah , when coach says be that 30 minutes before the game , he means be there 30 minutes or you ain't playing . You ain't playing . Yeah , man , yeah bro , that's cool man . So you got four games this weekend . I saw him on the team's social media page , man , they're highlighting him . It seems like he's got a star rising man .
Speaker 1Oh , chip off the old block , man , chip off the old block . I don't know about that . Chip off the old block he might be surpassing , he may have already . Yeah , chip off the old block . Anyway , man , enough about you , man , so , yeah , I'm doing good , kid's doing good , all of that stuff , bro , we just built a trampoline , you know , oh , yeah , I'm doing good , kids doing good , all of that stuff , bro , we just built a trampoline . You know , like we , oh , y'all got one .
Speaker 1Yeah , we put it together me and lindsay was out there , bro , hey man , I did it by myself . Trampolines , those are by myself . Huh , I did it by myself . Hey , man , it's not my as a look , whatever's going on between you and megan is none of my business . It sounds like you don't have the support you need , you know , but that's not , that's not a conversation for here at genius . Okay , you don't have some boundaries , you know some boundaries .
Speaker 1You know how hard it was to get that one spring , that's all the way . I couldn't not , man , I couldn't do it by myself , bro , it didn't want myself . I think I sent you a picture of this man with all the neighborhood kids . Oh , you did , you know , because it's all spring . I don't't know if I did , bro , we had about 10 , 11 kids in our yard , man , yeah , that's what they do , bro , sitting there asking when is the trampoline going to be done ? Yeah , what Megan calls them are little liabilities . What happens if somebody breaks their arm in your yard ? Do you have the courage you need ? I do have the courage .
Speaker 1I called my insurance adjuster the other day because all these kids , I was like , hey , I literally just talked to mine at five , 15 today , yeah , hey , if something happens , what do I do first ? No , when you get older , you , you , you call your insurance broker and be like hey , jeremy , listen , we need to do something about these trees because I'm afraid of a name storm that's going to come our way . Mine's name is justin . Bro , hey , nicest dude in the world , bro , nice man , nicest dude in the world . Hey , look , I feel better taken care of by him than I do . Some doctors like I may call them and ask medical questions . Hey , listen , anyway , real quick he said , yeah , you might need to do something about those trees .
Speaker 1I called somebody that minute . The dude came right . An hour later he was . I was like how much are you going to charge for your first like cut ? You know ? So he told me . I was like okay , so can you come every other week ? He's like yeah . I was like do you do ? Do you do trees ? He was like , yeah , I was like my man . My man I called Jeremy .
Speaker 1Hey , just want to let you know , I took care of it . Yeah , we going steady now . Yeah , me and him , you and him , yeah , we going steady . Oh , that's what's going on . That's why you're fixing the trampoline by yourself for me in ways that you know . No , I thought so . Jeremy didn't help either . Man , I'm starting to think it's you If she didn't help . Jeremy didn't help . Jeremy was extremely helpful .
Speaker 1Don't talk about my insurance adjuster like that , man . Don't talk about my broker , don't ? Anyway , anyway . So here's what I wanted to talk to you about , man . All right , bro , yeah , lay it on me , lay it on me GT . I'm excited . So I've been doing supervision . I've been doing supervision for the state . You know LPC , lmft , supervision .
Speaker 1Holler at your boy . You know prices are fair . That's the name of his LLC . Holler at your boy . Ooh , oh , that would have been a good name . Dog , that would have been a good . Holla at your boy . Counseling consultant oh , man , no , I just I went with pretty good counseling . Ah , man , holla at your boy . That should have been number two . You know what ? I'm gonna start another one , man , anyway , anyway .
Speaker 1And so in Supervision , man , we were talking about just how much of your experience and I know this sounds dumb , right , it sounds like , yes , obviously , but just how much of your experience comes from just doing therapy , yeah Right , just sitting in front of clients day in , day out , taking cuts , making mistakes . Yeah , you know , I know some of our listeners , you know , are like , you
Learning Through Practice
Speaker 1know , I don't know if I'm ever going to get it , you know . You know , maybe I'll never get this , you know I suck , I'm not as good as so-and-so . You know , we've got a lot of students , you know , and I'm talking mainly about your students , you know , because I know do that . Well , I just know your program , I think we're getting away from the point .
Speaker 1I think we're getting away from the point , cause your program is a little light in the uh , clinical , you know , like , uh , um , training , aggression , huh , yeah , okay , yeah , that too , uh-huh , I would say we're more , we're more of a four , four , two type of uh , yeah , we're a four , five , one , yeah , yeah , yeah , with a false nine , yeah , we're more , four , two , yeah , and you know , so we were just talking about , like , how so many people are just so many counselors are just scared of just getting out there . You know , like they think they have to be at a place in order to do this work . You know , yeah , yeah , you know , like , how many students do you feel like you meet with that say I'm not ready for this ? You know , like I'm not ready for clinical work ? No , I think I meet with .
Speaker 1I think no student is ready for clinical work . I think the amount of time that we give them is so short before they actually go into clinical work to where , you know and it doesn't I'm just talking about every , every program in general it's so short to where , like , there's no way you can be , like , truly ready . You know , yeah , um , but I do feel like like students have this ideal of who they should be , which is like non-directive , um , almost passive . You know Passive , yeah , and also like not genuinely present in session . You know so , just like kind of like ta-ta-ing them . You know , like you know what's your goals and like let's , you know like just the fact that you came into session means so much to me . That type of stuff you know , yeah , yeah , yeah , what , you know what , and I think I think , I think what students lack is that like , um , that permission from some professors to like , hey , man , go in there and be yourself and just like and see if that works for you .
Speaker 1But so here's what we were talking about . Right , we were talking about how like they're like it's , it's gonna be ugly . You know it's not gonna be pretty . Yeah , you know like it's not gonna be professional , it's not gonna be organized's going to be a dumpster fire . But what do you mean by that Like it's going to be a dumpster fire . It's not going to be pretty . I mean like you're going to be trying techniques and interventions . You're going to be trying to listen and not capture the real feeling words You're going to . You know you're going to have clients that you're holding back because you didn't lay down a good structure for the process . You know like you know what I mean . Then you'll , every now and then , have a home run session when you're like that's how I want to feel . You know like that's it , you know .
Speaker 1And so we were talking about how , like sometimes and she didn't know this , you know I'm talking about jessica , by the way um , it was like one of my favorite people and she's she's a supervisee of mine , you know , and she , we were talking about how , like , a lot of that stuff could be worked out , like the insecurities , the oh , the transference session in session , just just by , just by doing it . You know , let me finish this thought , let me finish this thought . And then I mean , like sure , get some therapy , do EMDR , yeah , do that stuff . Yeah , you know . But like , listen , and I mean I don't want to sound like I am trivializing people's work , you know , but I do feel like , doc , sometimes you don't need all of that stuff , you just need a good supervisor and you just need practice . Oh , yeah , for sure , you just need hours under your belt . But I think that's the thing in there . A good supervisor , you know , like a good easier , a good supervisor will will . This is the thing . If what I what ? What I see is that , like man , if it's not , if whatever's going on with you is not worked out right , then it's , it's going to be worked on in session .
Speaker 1So I had a supervisee the other day who , during internship , it just kind of came out that like , oh , the way that you're relating to your client is the way that you relate to other people outside of the room . So , like what's the fundamental things that you need from your client and I forget the words that they use , but it was . It was like oh , I need this and I need that , you know . And it's like and do you also need that in your , your , your relationships now ? And he's like . He's like yeah , yeah , it's classic . Yeah , and it's a class , it's a classic thing , you know .
Speaker 1But , man , when you're like , when you're in session and you're just like doing therapy and you don't know why you feel so angry or frustrated or whatever , you know , like that anger and that frustration is usually coming out because you're not getting your needs met in session . Right , and your needs is like the relationship to feel more responsible , or the client to feel more , the client to take more responsibility in a relationship , or for the for the for the relationship to be equal . You know , or you know , yeah , bro , yeah , whatever , yeah , dogs and and honestly , that was kind of the subtext of our conversation , you know , or even like the next , the next point you know was like you have these things , that that that go on in session , right , like these needs , these unmet needs , these frustrations with clients , these little annoyances you know what I mean Like confusion , whatever , you know , sometimes not linked to some deep dark . You know like , uh , you know , yeah , yeah , unhealthy . You know depravity , yeah , that needs to be sussed out , cleansed , pressure washed with . You know some , some , some six week , you know , ayahuasca , silent retreat , you know what I mean . Like sometimes you just need to go to the next session , yeah , yeah , you know . And then the next session after that . Well , you know and I'm not saying , I'm not saying power through right , I'm saying like , have some awareness of it , be curious about it , try to figure it out in the next session , go to supervision . But also like , go to the next session and and practice , no , but I , I do think that some students get lost in that I need to be helpful , uh , uh , conundrum , you know , and that that need , that that aggressive need to feel helpful in session , completely like shadows .
Speaker 1It completely puts into shadow , like what's actually happening in session for the student , you know , or for the clinician . So , instead of looking at a session and like saying I'm feeling this way in session and because I'm feeling this way , it's probably because I have this need that's not getting met by this client and this need that's not getting met by this client . It's a real and true thing that exists within our relationship and maybe , if I feel this way , other people may feel this way . Maybe , if I feel this way , other people may feel this way . Let me help the client to be more aware of what our relationship feels like to me . You know , like , instead of doing that , they go to , oh , I need to be helpful , like I got to be helpful . So what I'm saying is you got some students who say I want to be helpful and if they don't feel helpful in a session , then it's a a bad session . So then they move on to the next session and they try to be helpful and maybe they are helpful , so that's a good session . So you got bad and good sessions with no real exploration of , like , what's going on . So they don't , they don't , they don't get that , they don't get that session experience because their relationships , their relationship to the therapeutic relationship , is hollow .
Speaker 1Thank you , I do feel like there's some Like the , the work in between the sessions . It's where it's at . You know , okay , yeah , yeah , yeah , right , but listen . You know , okay , yeah , right , but but listen , I don't mean that . Like , there needs to be this like big , deep soul search . Yeah , you know , for some people it can be that you know what I mean .
Speaker 1I guess what I'm saying is sometimes you have to put therapy where it needs to be right . Do you get what I'm saying ? Here's what I mean . Here's the thing that I feel like sounds kind of like I don't know how it sounds , bro Is that sometimes some of your sessions are just practice . Yeah , man , now listen , I know there's a real human being sitting in front of you . Yeah , you know who needs things and you got to develop a treatment plan and all other stuff . But , dog , sometimes you got to go into a session and go . I'm going to practice therapy . Like it's not called private practice for nothing , it's not called practicum for nothing . Nuggets , nuggets . You know what I mean , nuggets . But seriously , dog , like you have to put that dog's also dropping dimes . I'm just saying you just gotta put it in the right place . I'm also hitting that car , whoa . But you , but you know what I mean . Dog , like , like you just have to see it like and dog .
Speaker 1And honestly , I think the more that I do as me practicing to try to have like I'm just practicing at having a good relationship with people , I'm just practicing honesty . I'm practicing confrontation . You know , I could sit in a session and go dang . I lost it . That was the moment I should have said and you're acting just like your dad . Boom , you know what I mean . Take that , take that , take that , take that . And another thing is that if you're acting like your dad , then I feel like your kid , and you know what it sucks . Yeah , boom , I missed it . I missed it . But you know what ? I got another hour . Yeah , you know , I got another hour . I got another hour . And also there's the potentiality of seeing this client next week . Maybe I got next week , you know . Well , maybe I can practice what repairing a relationship looks like . Yeah , dog , like every single thing , you know it's like that . I just feel like a lot of people make it life or death .
Speaker 1Oh yeah , I was just about to say that I don't think our students , I don't think any student well , I'm not going to say any student , but I don't think most students have that capacity to not see this as practice . Like you know , we build them up and say like hey , build them up , we do . If you brush a client's leg , you will go to the clink , clink , let me find out . I already have the nine and the one pressed . Let me find out . You ain't doing them . Clinical notes Let me find out . Did you overshare ? Oh look , I'm gonna need your student ID right now . I need your student ID . Give it to me .
Speaker 1Did you just give a directive in session ? Excuse me , are you being directive , are you ? I told you to come in session butt naked so you don't give your clients any direction . What ? No , I'm talking . Oh , it must be a you out thing . Yeah , that's what we do . Yeah , you're already accredited man . Now y'all could be your true freak self . We put our students , we strip them naked and we put them in potato sacks because we don't want them to have any direction . We don't want them to give their clients any direction in session . You know you are no one . No , you are . You are just an ear . You are an undirectable sounding board . That's who you are as a matter of fact . Stick this . Post it on your forehead . That says sounding board yeah , stick , stick it on your forehead . Stick it now , go in session . Yeah . Like , oh god
Permission to Be Authentic
Speaker 1, yeah , we do do that , dog , we do hey , hey , hey , you're okay , you're okay low , you're okay , low , hey . And we do real people now and you see we do . You know we do that .
Speaker 1It's more , it's way more flexible than that . You know , and , like you , you want to worry right . You want to make sure you're doing , to worry right . You want to make sure you're doing the right job . You want to make sure you're taking care of your clients . You know what I mean . You want to make sure you're growing and progressing .
Speaker 1I get that , but you know it is just practice and I do feel like , even in private practice with the clients and real-life clients , high stakes in the sense that there's real money , it's people's lives . It's still practice . You're still learning how to do this stuff . You're still learning your style , what works , what sounds good . You know what I mean . You know what I mean . Like dog , even jerry , like dog , jerry is still practicing , trying to figure things out and you know taking shots and who knows ? And maybe you know like , hey , you talk to him and does anybody remind you of you know he's just he's playing jazz . You know what I mean . Like there's no mistakes really , yeah , I do . You know what .
Speaker 1I do think our students hide behind that , though . Our students hide behind the seriousness of therapy or the seriousness of the rules of therapy outside of their relationship . They hide behind the seriousness of ethics class or the seriousness of , you know , a certain professor's philosophy of not what do you mean ? Like high , high , use it as a shield . Oh , use it as a shield , yeah , like like if , if I were myself in here , I would say these things , but they told me I can't say that . So I , I'm not saying that you know . So , then they . So then it's like I , I would never say that , but like you would , though , if , if it was you , you would say that . So , instead of it being you , you are some like concocted version of what you think we want to see . You know , yeah , um , as professors .
Speaker 1So so let me , so let me ask you this , man , because that was another thing that came up in supervision man is , at what point do you feel like it's okay to tell somebody to cut it out ? You mean , tell a student , no , tell a client , like , when do you think it's okay for a client , for students or for therapists ? You know , know , to be able to look a client in the you know orifices of their , their soul , in the windows of their soul ? You know and say , hey , man , hey , that's unhealthy . No , I don't know . I don't even think it starts with the unhealthy bit . I think it starts from the very first session , like , hey , whatever you're doing in your relationships outside of this room , cut that out . This relationship is so different from relationships outside of this room in the sense that , like in here it's , I would even beg to say Like in here it's , I would even beg to say it's even more intimate in some areas , because I'm going to be pushing to see the real you , or to have the real you expressed , and you're going to see me . It's going to be one of the most genuine relationships , for sure , for sure , like that you've ever experienced before . But do you feel like and I guess let me just say like I feel like , especially in our program , like we scaffold a lot of the training and you know we've talked about our program before it's really clinical , highly rigorous , all of that stuff . You know , and you know what we try to do is get students to get their feet under them , you know , basically , to be able to have the skills to counsel themselves out of trouble , right , exactly , you know what I mean so that they can take risks , trusting that they have the skills to get themselves out of trouble . Yeah , you know , and students , you know , our students , I feel like , are ready for that way before students in other programs are Right . To me personally , you know , and I do feel like there's a certain amount of hours , right , and I've been telling , I've been telling students this and I don't know , I want to see your take on it I think around 700 hours , 700 direct hours , right , how many hours do your students get by the time they graduate ? 600 . Well , it's K-CREP , so 600 in internship , about 600 ? Yeah , 600 in internship and then like 100 . Well , how many direct hours ? Because it's K-Crep ? So 600 in internship , about 600 ? Yeah , 600 in internship , and then like 100 . Well , how many direct hours ? Because it's what it's like ? 240 or something Like 40 direct and then 100 . So 240 ? Yeah , so around 240 or 250 by the time they graduate ? No , huh , direct hours . I thought it was 240 , just in internship . I don't know , man , I think , because isn't it 240 in internship , and then like , and there's like 40 direct . I teach internship . Yeah , I teach internship too , and I don't know . Yeah , so you know .
Speaker 1Hey , this has been the . This has been the 20th episode of the podcast . We don't know what the hell we're talking about . No , let's say , dog , you get around 300 direct hours by the time you graduate , right ? About 300 direct hours by the time you graduate , and I think around the 700th hour , right ? So let's say , another year and a half .
Speaker 1You know , if you LPC associate , lmft associate , I don't know what y'all call them in Louisiana , but y'all probably do like we call them kuyas . Kuyas , yeah , that's just a blanket term for LMFTs and LPCs is kuyas . You know . And then what you call them when they get their full license , when they get their full license , oh , they don't ever do that . Oh , because I thought y'all went from Paias to Kuyon , mm-mm . And then , okay , well , whatever , I mean maybe in St Bernard Parish , yeah , oh , okay . Or maybe in Burbridge , because Burbridge , do they have licensed therapists at Burbridge ? I don't even think so , man . I don't even think so , man . I think they still use the barter system for therapy .
Speaker 1Man , I did therapy one time with somebody from Burbridge and they bought me deer sausage .
Speaker 1I was like , I don't think , it's not .
Speaker 1How much is ? I mean , gregor , you know how much is this . Anyway , anyway , anyway , man , what was I was gonna ? Man , come on man , my bad , my bad , bro . Yeah , he started my food and you get all kind of . What was I talking ? Hey , is she starving you over there ? Are you ? Are you getting enough nutrients ? Yeah , bro , okay , you are okay . Yeah , that's the way the way your body shivered when I said dear sausage , and the way his pupils dilated I said oh , lord jesus , it's just true . With that , yeah , uh , nah , man , um , come on man , what was I talking about , right , oh , hours , hours , hours . So you got , so you got , I think , around the 700 hour . Right , you got licensed to be able to tell people to cut it out . Yeah , uh , yeah , I really do .
Speaker 1I look , I think you could be , I think you could be sitting in a couple session , right , 700 hours , deep , direct , 700 direct hours , probably an ingodly amount of indirect hours , trainings , all of that stuff . You've been in supervision for hours , weeks , years . You sit down with a couple . You've got a couple who you know , but you're still like 700 hours , you're still a plpc or you halfway through ? Yeah , yeah , you have , you know , you're not even halfway through . I'm just saying total right and I'm giving some leeway . You know what I mean , assuming that the person has good supervision .
Speaker 1Yeah , right , I think you could sit down with a couple . They come in . They're in a classic complimentary relationship style , pursue a distance , or one person's anxious , other person's avoidant . They're working towards one of the four horsemen . You know , some contempt is there , you know , just brewing , right . I think you can tell them hey , this is what's . Look , if y'all want to make any changes , y'all got to stop doing this and this , yeah , that's it , that's it .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think , and maybe not even cut it out , but , like you know , I think you have a license to do , like a little , you know , a little wink , you know , like a little like . You know , like it's with a relationship workout , yeah , it'll work out . You give him a little wink , you know , yeah , yeah , it'll , yeah , it'll work out . Yeah , because I think this is what happened , I think this is what happens . You're trying to look at you like what was that wink for ? I don't know , I don't know . You tell me what do you think it means . Nah , man , because I think this is what happens . I think . I think I think couple comes in , right , hey , don't wink at your clients or the SWAT team is gonna break through your window , just , you know , I just want to let all the students who you know , all my students , know if you wink at your clients , yeah , uh-huh , yeah , ulpd's busting , busting through the door . I'm out of here . So , yeah , man , so I I think this is what happens , people .
Speaker 1A couple shows up , you sit there for the first 30 minutes . You got it . You got it . Yeah , you don't even need to do the genogram . You know he comes from a highly volatile family where he didn't get his needs met . You don't need any more convincing . You don't need it , man . You know that he needed some stuff . He didn't get it , so he learned to stop asking , but he still desperately needs the relationship . So , yada , yada , yada .
Speaker 1It plays out like that yeah , right , you know it , you got it within the first 30 minutes . Right , but instead of saying something , you go Now . I wonder why you feel like that . Yeah , I don't know . Yeah , yeah , yeah , you know what we need to do next session . Let's do a chinogram and let's get to the bottom of why you do that .
Speaker 1I think , dog , if we could talk about like the process here , though , and I could do it , and then you could do it , and then maybe we get on the board , and then maybe , and you can do , and then maybe we get on the board , and then maybe , and then so next session we can do Sovereign Attic , viva loops , and then then we'll get it to the communication stances .
Speaker 1Your council take it and then cause , hey , jt , hey , cut it out , cut it out , but seriously , dog .
Speaker 1And it's like session after session after session , hey , but I think , but listen , in that first 30 minutes she can be like hey , hey , man , stop , yeah , yeah , listen , stop , yeah , I've seen this .
Speaker 1Yeah , like , how many hours is enough hours ?
Speaker 1Well , you know what , though , like I think students make it too difficult , like I just left the class and in the class one of the students said how do you know when to go deeper with a client who has had extreme trauma in the past ?
Speaker 1How do you know , how do you know when , like when it's time to go deeper , you know ? And I was like I mean you could just ask them , yeah , and they were like what do you mean ? Like you could just say like hey , I know you have a deeply traumatic past that's extremely triggering , right , and like one , one thing that I'm nervous about is bringing that up and bringing up all the triggers , and then you know you got to go , like be with your family after these sessions , you know , and like go back to work . And so after these sessions , I'm nervous about it , like lingering on , you know . So , like , how are we going to know within our relationship when it's time to like maybe go a little deeper , you know , with with our exploration , but that's on .
Speaker 1But I don't think you can do that unless you approach the work that you're doing from the position of practicing .
When to Tell Clients to "Cut It Out"
Speaker 1You know what I mean , like where , where you , where you go to it , and there's more curiosity . You know there's more like . You know there's more like a vocalized uncertainty , you know , like there's more humility . You know what I mean , without making yourself the center of the universe , you know . You know , in thinking that I have the power to hurt this person , you know , because I do think that that's a fear and I just don't think we're that important . Oh , I think that's the hardest thing . That's the hardest thing for students , you know , and even some , like you know , beginning clinicians to understand .
Speaker 1Is that , like we are , we are not , we are not so important in in our clients lives to be some like to be the villain in their story . You , yeah , man , have you heard that catchphrase before ? Oh for sure , dog , if you could do something horrible . You know when you're taking advantage of the power dynamic . Yeah , yeah , yeah , yes , that's beyond the pale . You could be the villain in somebody's story in that way , you know .
Speaker 1But , like , if you are For wrong reflection , bro , bro , come on From an inaccurate feeling state . Bro , bro , if you are your most genuine self and you communicate in an open , transparent , honest , genuine way Right , I mean with the utmost respect for the client and with the attempt at bringing you closer to the client . If you communicate in that way , even if you make a wrong reflection , even if you hurt the client's feelings , even if you bring up a deeply dramatic thing , like you can always communicate the dramatic thing . Like you can always communicate okay , so , like , I felt like something when I made that reflection . You know , like , what did I ? What did I miss ? Or like , like , like you , like you said , like I want to go deeper , but I'm not sure if going deeper is a good time . Like , right now is a good time for you . Yeah , and I , and I don't know how will I know ? Yeah , I don't , I don't know . Yeah , like , help me understand when you feel comfortable to go deeper . You know and like let's collaboratively work together to , like , navigate this thing .
Speaker 1You know , I think if you can communicate in that genuine way , don't you ? You can't do nothing wrong in session , dog , even if you make a mistake . Even if you make a mistake and I've done that so many times I wait students with supervisees , with clients . You know like you get a sense of a student . You know and like what they may need . You know , because you've done this for years and years and years , but you don't know the full story . So you take a chance and you try to push them in a certain way , you try to encourage them , you try to do something and it backfires and you're , and you don't know it . But then you , you know what I mean , and so all you're doing is like hey , man , I'm trying my best , you know , I'm trying to care in the best way that I can . Yeah , man , you know what I mean . Like I'm a human being , yeah , you know , yeah , yeah , yeah , and you're going to see that . You're going to see that humanness reflected within our relationship . You know , yeah , like you're going to see it reflected in our relationship . Dog , that is so scary for students Terrifying , like it's so scary for students . It's why I teach the way that I teach .
Speaker 1You know , in some ways trying to encourage students to swing for the fences . Yeah , man , now is the best time to swing for the fences , like when you're a student . Let me do it . I told my students that this morning , you know like , please , please , go in there and be yourself . I jokingly tell my students throw a pillow at the client . You know like , obviously , don't be throwing pillows at clients in there and be yourself . I joke . Any time I see them it's throw a pillow at the client . Obviously , don't be throwing pillows at clients , be yourself in session .
Speaker 1You got to figure out what that is because when you graduate , your family's going to be dependent on you earning an income from being good at therapy . Your family's going to earn , and some people are lucky enough to work in an agency where they just get clients shoveled to them . Some people got to get out of here . Some people got to get it out the mud . Some people are fighting the dirt and the only way they can do that is if you're in session , being your genuine self , taking cuts . You can't do it any other way , taking cuts any other way .
Speaker 1Man , you can't go into it perfect . You can't go into it healed , yeah , you can't go into it ready . Yeah , you can't go into it on time . You can't go into it with your family , how you want it to be , or somebody else's cloak on you know somebody else's cloak of ? Well , you have to be this way in session , going there dirty , unshowered , filthy , sinning .
Speaker 1If you had a professor , and your professor has never uttered these words hey , man , this is my style , just chew it , chew on my style and would you like Swallow it ? If you feel like a version of my style fits for you , like , swallow it like if you . If you feel like a version of my style fits for you , take it and take it . If you , if you completely disagree with the way that I work and it's completely different from how you show up in relationships , then don't worry about it . This is , this is how I would do it . This is what it would look like for me . Now , if you see some differences , you got to voice what those differences are . You got to vocalize it , so we all know how different you are from my style . That'll help me understand who you are .
Speaker 1I'd run away from somebody who says this is how you do it , this is how you should be . I'd run away . I'd be worried . Look , barring , barring , the hey man . If you're in session and you're taking your shoes off and you're putting your legs underneath you , don't do that . That ain't therapy , that ain't it . Yeah , hey man , therapy is safe and ain't comfortable .
Speaker 1We're talking . We're talking about style , not professionalism , not skills , knowledge , attitude , disposition . We're talking about style . You know what I mean . But skills , knowledge , attitude , disposition . We're talking about style . You know what I mean . But look , let me end with this , bro . So I'm working with this .
Speaker 1I have this supervisee right , working with a couple . Yeah , right , first couple , absolutely . Your supervisee is seeing a couple First couple , yeah , first
Wrapping Up and Future Plans
Speaker 1time , crushed it , crushed it so proud . You know he's so nervous and as I'm listening to it with him , he's sitting in the chair . You know I hear each one of the professors in his session yeah , yeah , style , everything Biting it dog and it works , everything biting it dog and it works .
Speaker 1And and then , 30 minutes in , you start seeing his little twist , yeah , on some of the stuff that we said in class . And I heard myself in there . I heard me , and you know , and you're just sitting there and , dog , he's practicing yeah , man , he don't know what he's doing . He's giving himself permission to try some stuff out , yeah , you know . And then he comes and watch tape and he goes how is it , that's what I like , that's what I didn't like . All right , I'm going back out there , like , I mean , he takes a Gatorade , you know just bottle of water , and then jumps back in the session .
Speaker 1Yeah , man , the session it's like , dog , I don't know , I don't know , I don't know . Jt , that's it . Anyway , all right , man , I got to go . Man , we're having some friends over for cards . Man , I'm going to play some spades on them more . Y'all got a table that's strong enough for that . I'll be slapping them . I like to throw my hamstrings in that thing . Yeah , kaplooey , kaplooey . Yeah , hey , when is y'all spring break ? The week before the last week of class ? What kind of ? Don't make no sense , dog , don't make no sense , dog , don't make no sense . That's why Louisiana test was so terrible . Don't make no sense .
Speaker 1Side note we got a K-Cup accredited . We got the full K-Cup accreditation . I think they gave us 17 and a half years . You're welcome , I put some . Yeah , I think they gave us 17 and a half years , bro . You're welcome , bro , I put some strings . I put some strings , got y'all . We got 22 and a half years . Man , by the time we do the K-Crap report again , I mean , shoot , I'll be 60 .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , man , anyway , yeah , yeah , yeah , we're going to try to be more consistent . We won't , we won't Listen , we won't . This is what's going to happen . We're going to do this at random . Times are available and that's it , you know , and we're going to try not to do 30 minutes . We could try to hit y'all with an hour , you know , and it's going to happen randomly . You know , we got . That's where we are .
Speaker 1We have so much listener mail that we have to go through . Yeah , it's horrible man . I don't know why y'all trust us with y'all's development . I'm just glad y'all stick with this and listen . This is real man . We got kids , life , family , not me . Please stop listening . Jesus has kids until they . He doesn't have kids until they show some athletic ability . Please stop listening . He doesn't have kids until they show some athletic ability . Please stop listening . Yeah , please stop . Nah , man , seriously , man , this is , this is yeah .
Speaker 1And I also like when people stop me and they're like hey , man , when you going to cast again , hey , you know what you should talk about . Yeah , yeah , yeah , keep it coming . Keep it coming , keep it coming . Write it down , it's dope . Gmailcom . Yeah , yeah , yeah . And also , uh , well , we won't I'll be at aca .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'm not gonna be . You gotta let them people know you're not gonna be there , bro . Oh , I gotta let them know . Yeah , oh , you gotta let them know . Yeah , you gotta . It should be . You should be getting those email updates every . Yeah , yeah , there's a little thing there . You say like , hey , I'm not gonna be able to make it , you know , uh , you know . I mean , obviously I can tell people . But yeah , people are going to be bummed . Yeah , I know . But uh , yeah , I'll be . I'll be there . Um , throughout the whole conference I'll be doing a um two-hour writing um seminar I'm so sad to miss that man . Two-hour writing seminar on thursday and then another present self-care presentation on friday , on a saturday , and then , I think , on friday I'll be doing book signing . Same thing on th Thursday , maybe Saturday too , but I got a skedaddle after Friday . I'm trying to get home . I can't come because we got Daddy Daughter Dance in the middle of the conference . Yeah , and you just never know , bro , you just never know . Man With kids , and you know , like Shiloh was , or Valen was , six weeks early , yeah , I mean literally any day now , well , it'll be six weeks by the conference , by the conference , yeah , hey , man , you hear my choo-choo . I got to go , bro , is that your train coming ? Yeah , that's my train coming . That's all I know is 830 . Yeah , that's all I know is 830 , bro , oh , I know it's 830 . Oh , man , all right , yeah , y'all . Yeah , I got my bags packed . I'm about to hop on that . Hop on that . I'm about to hop on that . Right down to DFW Salado . Here I come , here I come , here I come , baby . Here I come , baby . It took me an hour and a half 15-minute trip . All right , we're going to try to . Probably won't be so until next time . We'll see y'all when we see y'all . See y'all when we see y'all . Man , hey , next time y'all , hear from us . I'm probably going to have another kid that probably going to be a . I don't know what happened . It wasn't in the cards , it wasn't in the plan . All right , man , hey , to any students listening to this get off our backs , man , this train is aggressive . Yeah , bro , they letting you know they coming , bro . Yeah , all right , man , all right , let me stop the recording . Oh , before I forget what To any students out there studying for comps man , keep your head up , keep your head up , keep your head up , man .
Speaker 1I got somebody taking it . When's y'all's comps day ? I was just like March 24th or something . We have two days . Yeah , that's it March 24th . That's it Right . Yeah , after spring break for us , man .
Speaker 1Hey , if you're just studying , if you're just starting to study , all hope , stop , stop . Look , hey , man , you'd be best to just do some meal preps . Hey , who are you fooling ? Do some meal preps and meditate . Hey , go in there . Go in there . You know what's the best thing to do .
Speaker 1If you haven't started studying in January and you just started studying this week , take the practice test , stop . Go to Amazon . Go to Amazon and go to ACA website and get yourself these books . Get yourself Counselor Self-Care 2nd Edition . Get yourself Developing your Clinical Skills . What else ? What else should they get ? What else should they get ? Get yourself Surviving and Thriving in your counselor program . Get yourself the counselor educators guide . Yep , uh-huh , yeah , get yourself those and read them . Yeah , read , you know , as a matter of hug them , buy , buy , uh , some for your friends too . Yeah , yeah , buy some copies for your friends too . Yeah , don't , don't be a jerk . Yeah , come on man . Uh , you know , you think you think you're the only one that hadn't started studying yet . Don't be a jerk , yeah , no , but seriously though , if you hadn't started studying , uh , just take the practice quiz and uh , and may god bless the children .
Speaker 1No , you need to do some physical practice . You need to sit down for two and a half hours to four hours . You need to practice . You don't need to be studying right now . It's study time . No , you need to be answering questions . You need to be getting your body ready . You need to be getting your body regulated . You need to know when you got to go to the bathroom . You need to start clenching , because that hamstring them . Glutes going to be tight . Start answering questions out loud to prepare for that oral exam . Tight , yeah , tight , tight , tight , tight , yeah . I got it All right , all right , all right , all right , all right , all right , all right , all right , all right , all right , all right , all right , all right .
