The Twin Therapists Podcast
Drs. Jude and Julius Austin, identical twin brothers, lift the curtain on the "doing" of psychotherapy. With unwavering honesty, raw vulnerability, and unwavering compassion for the complexities of the human condition, they illuminate the path for both fledgling clinicians and seasoned professionals alike. The Twin Therapists podcast is your gateway to a world where healing meets humanity, leaving no stone unturned in the relentless pursuit of understanding the depths of the human soul.
The Twin Therapists Podcast
The Therapy Tech Tug-of-War
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
The hosts return to discuss AI's growing role in mental health therapy and what makes human therapists irreplaceable despite technological advances.
• The rising trend of AI applications in clinical psychology beyond administrative tasks
• A UK startup called Limbic developing AI "agents" for intake, triage, and therapy delivery
• How AI therapy could make mental health support more accessible and affordable
• The "technician" therapists who follow rigid protocols may be more vulnerable to AI replacement
• What human therapists uniquely offer: instinct, timing, authentic connection, and lived experience
• Why mastering the "art" of therapy rather than just the technical aspects protects against obsolescence
• The importance of student initiative and self-challenge in clinical training programs
• Personal stories highlighting the unpredictable human elements of both parenting and therapy
Check back next week as we continue our exploration of therapy evolution and practice challenges in our regular weekly episodes!
If you have any questions about any counseling related topics or would like the twins to share their thoughts about a particular counseling case - reach out with the info below:
https://thetwintherapists.com/
Instagram: thetwintherapists
Contact: thetwintherapists@gmail.com
Welcome Back and Health Updates
Speaker 1welcome back , y'all , welcome . We said we were gonna do it and we said we're gonna to do it . Yeah , I didn't believe , jude , for a second , that he would be consistent and on time and that he would even . You know what ? It's not about me , you know , it's about the listener . I didn't think that he valued you guys enough as listeners , as patrons of this podcast , to be consistent . You know , I just figured he wasn't that type of man . Stop you . Let me stop you right there . Let me stop you right there , because I'm sick today , man , you're sick .
Speaker 1I'm like jordan in game five , like , yeah , it's my flu game . Oh , yeah , you know , because you're in your . You're in your old navy shirt , in your nice office with the ac running and you don't have a crowd of people expecting you to to win . I do , they're just not here . Oh , yeah , there's a crowd . Okay , yeah , always , that's the , that's the crowd you have in your head . Yeah , bro , the people . Okay , you can hear him , bro , you can just . If you just listen , you know they're chatting . Oh , they're chatting .
Speaker 1My name isn't that nice . No , he's gone . No , we've lost him , he's cracked . Yeah , I don't hear nothing . That's all this Theraflu . Nah , man , it's not that bad , just a little , probably allergies .
Speaker 1I always get this at the beginning of the semester , but but that weakness just creeps in and tries to pull you down . It's actually , I think it's the weakness from the new students . Man , we got the first cohort . The frailty , the frailty , the anxiety , the emotional damage , you know just it creeps into me , man , and I gotta , I gotta expel it some kind of way . I can't take it in . Yeah , the questions , yeah , you know . Yeah , yeah , anyway , well , I mean , we're back .
Speaker 1How have you been ? Tell the people how you've been , cause I don't care , good , man . Yeah , I mean on a personal note , man , I've been talking too long , but I've been trying to . I've been trying to create this like office space , slash clock , like we just have this upstairs and we have some space and we just try to figure out what to do with it and we need a bigger closet , but I also need an office space , and so we're just trying to compromise . So I got these . Like you know how , as one does , you go on pinterest and you go on like tiktok . And I saw this like oh , this target bookshelf closet hack , you know so . So I went to target and bought all the shelves they had , you know , just for reference , hold on , hold on , just for reference for the readers . Yeah , um , we are not handy , that that hurts . No , what I will say is have I ever finished a project ? No , no , you did .
Speaker 1Those bookshelves are , I guess , quote , unquote bookshelves you have in your living room . That's about one nail away from being somebody's coffin . Oh , no , no , big dog , I nailed them things into the studs in the house next to me , like , yeah , I , my battery died because I was nailing them into studs . It's been bad . But miss bab , miss Baba Noah's , sitting in her living room like , should y'all heard that ? Yeah , you can't , yeah you can , yeah , you can , you could park a F-250 on them bookshelves .
Speaker 1All I'm saying is I saw them , bro , those things leaning man , I was like I got one leaning . Yeah , you did that by yourself for sure . Nah , we not handy man , we grew up where our dad he tried , he did try his best , but it was just so hot . Every time daddy wanted to do something , man , it was hot , bro . Well , that's how I feel with these bookshelves , man , I'm trying to make it look nice ,
Home Improvement Struggles
Speaker 1but you know , you just have that sneaking suspicion that , oh , I'm gonna screw this up and like it's not gonna look exactly the way that I want it to . You know , and you know how any anybody who does these like diy , home improvement stuff it sometimes things look great but then for the most part , they don't look that good and you're just like , oh , let me just put this up and then , like you know , when I get a free weekend , I'm going to come in and I just change it up , reorganize it , make it look better , but then that free weekend stretches out to like three years . Yeah , man , you know , and you're just like , with this great value , like jalopy of an ordeal .
Speaker 1Every time I look at I'm going to look at Megan for the next years . She's going to be like it's evidence of your failures . Yeah , she's going to try to be like I'll tell you the truth , it's evidence of your failures . Yeah , she's going to try to be like I know , I know , I know it looks good . I'll tell you the truth , I'm going to see it in her eyes . She's going to be like nah , look Jesus . I'll tell you the truth before you start . We should have hired somebody . I'll tell you the truth before you start . We should have hired somebody Before you even nail the first nail , and it looks terrible .
Speaker 1From where I'm sitting it looks terrible . Hey , man , every time I try to hire somebody I'm like , hey , how much , how much would it cost to put a one nail in the wall ? And then like where you want it , like right here , oh , right there . Yeah , that's gonna be five thousand dollars . Yeah , I see that wall is obtaining structural inevitability . It's actually a levy . It's a dream levy , because this is where you sleep and this wall contains your dreams .
Speaker 1And see , you're looking at the contractor , like what , what are you talking about , big dog ? What are you talking about ? How much is it ? What type of nails are you using ? Oh , we're using the Vibranium nails . Yeah , the Vibranium nails . When the handyman has to run a credit check , that's when you know this is beyond .
Speaker 1I hate it , I hate it , I hate it . Yeah , that's what's going on . Yeah , I asked somebody . We had somebody come in to just give us a quote on some sprinklers . You know , and like in my mind I'm thinking , doc , I could get out there and put a sprinkler . You could , you could , yeah , you know , like how hard , how much , how hard can it be ? You know , you dig a hole . Yeah , bing bang , boom . Yeah , see , you know , the whoop-de-whoop is when you bust the city's water pipe .
Speaker 1That's the whoopty , whoopty , that's the , as Shiloh says , uh-oh , uh-oh . But we hear Shiloh in the other side of the house talking about uh-oh , oh . That's nice , because I hear my son on the other end of the house saying what the hell , what the hell , my little Christian kids , uh-oh , uh-oh . Nah , mine is . See your son's . I was wondering .
Speaker 1Kof kept running around the house saying what the pancakes , what the pancakes ? Uh-oh , see your sons . I was wondering . Kof kept running around the house what the pancakes , what the pancakes ? They got it from your kids , my kids being like bro , what the pancakes ? My kids goes , my youngest goes , what the hell ? Wow , bro . So that's what I'm doing , bro . So you're going to try to put up some shelves , bro . I got five , six hundred dollars worth of bookcases downstairs that I'm going to try to put up .
Speaker 1Oh no , I'm going to be referencing the little TikToks , you know , but the TikTok people make it look so easy . All you do is get this milk and then , if you get compressed air , put it through a straw . Now listen , the square root of 50 , if you get the quadrangle of the YZ axis and you put it on the W axis . What you get is that Alright , man , I'm going to need somebody to hold my hand like I'm a kindergartner through this project . And Megan , don't help Megan , she just look at me . No , it looks nice , but I know she's calling her mom , hi , somebody .
Speaker 1I let Juj get these bookshelves . He said he could put them in . Now you know we can't take it back because he didn't punch the holes in all the bookcases . We can't take them back . That ball put a nail in the floor , mama , it's leaning , it's leaning . How am I supposed to put my clothes where all my clothes fall into one side ? But that's my man and I'm gonna stick beside him . So yeah , bro , that's what's going on . That's what's going on with me , bro . So I mean , I know I told you this story . Oh no , let the listeners know , man . Let them know . Oh , listeners , man , if the students haven't heard it yet , I'll probably tell them in class .
Speaker 1Bro , long story short . We had the plague come through the house last week , man , yeah , got
Kids' Ninja Nighttime Adventures
Speaker 1me . Baby Shiloh got got , king got got , fallon got got and Lindsey was going to hold out . And then on Saturday , friday morning , she got it , man , I had to miss my little golf tournament , I mean , obviously . So you had to support your wife and children , yeah for sure . Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1And long story short , bro , tough day with the kids , man , you know nobody's in school . You know like it was tough , you know , nobody's in school , you know like it was tough , you know . And so , uh , that night I said , hey , you know mommy's sleeping , like we're gonna have like daddy's special dinner , you know which was raisin canes , yeah , and so , um , special dinner , yeah , and and look we , just , we just gonna play switch until we just fall asleep , until we crash . Until we crash , no , man , we played switch for a little bit . We went to bed . It was like 7 , 30 right , 7 , 38 o'clock , right . So kids go down and I'm just hanging out , bro , you know what . And I was like you know what , man , let me , um , you know madden came out . So let me , let me play a little bit of madden , right , let me get a little bit . You know it's 10 o'clock and I heard what you doing in your Switch . I turned around Bruh , it was Keaton Came out of his room , man Out of the corner , that ball was jazzed .
Speaker 1I mean , he was like Daddy , daddy , what you doing with your ? And he looked down and he was like Daddy , and , and you're playing Switch . Is that what you do out here when we're in the bed ? We're supposed to be sleeping , that's what you do . You're just in here eating all the snacks , uh-uh , daddy , uh-uh .
Speaker 1So I said kid bro , why aren't you in bed , why are you not sleeping ? And he said I can't sleep Because he does a cartwheel bro . So I'm like man , what are you wearing , dog ? And so he has on a camping heat base layer on . Wow , he has on a full I-9 soccer uniform on . Yeah , he has on jeans and a flannel shirt Buttoned down Three sets . So I was like why you got all those clothes , keen ? Hey , man , it's time for bed . It's way past time for bed , let's go to sleep .
Speaker 1So we walked in the back of the room and I'm going to put him , put him in bed . And I was like Keen , where's Fallon ? And Keen goes , he's in bed . He , what ? Where's Fallon ? And Keaton goes ? Uh , he , uh , he's in bed , uh , uh , he , uh , uh , he , what ? Where is he ? Where is he ?
Speaker 1I was like Keaton , he's not in bed . Look at his bed , son . He's not in bed . Where is he ? And you hear from the background uh-oh , uh-oh , uh-oh , uh-oh , nah man , uh-oh , uh-oh , nah man . He just stared at me and then his eyes darted to the closet . I'm so , I'm so , sakian , where is Valid ? He goes , um , he's in the closet . It's so dark .
Speaker 1So I go in the closet , open the door and I'm looking , I'm looking on the floor . I'm like where is he man moving the clothes around , like where could he be ? I looked again and he go and he points up , like he just points up , dog , I look up , dog , listen to this . I look up to the ceiling on the left side of the ceiling . On the left side of the ceiling and your boy , in a full-on ninja costume , is three-point contact on the top left ceiling of Spider-Man . His left cheek is on the is touching the roof . I don't even want to know how he got up there . I have no idea .
Speaker 1I was impressed and , dog , when I tell you , dog , I lost it , dog , and I turned around real quick so they couldn't see me dying laughing because I was trying to be stern . Oh , because they didn't see you dying laughing , that's it . That's it , that's it , dog . I turned around and I turned around and pretended like I was frustrated dog . But I mean I am crying , snickering dog , I turn around .
Speaker 1I turn around and Valen goes I'm sorry , dad , I'll get in bed and I was like , dude , it's 10 o'clock at night . You got on a full-on ninja costume and Kian is dressed like he's going camping outside . Man , I was like y'all going to be so exhausted tomorrow and then they go . We're going to change . I was like , don't change , just get in bed and just sleep in the ninja costume he had on a yellow headband dog . I mean it was oh my God , wow . And just sleep in the ninja costume . He had on a yellow headband dog . I mean , oh my god , wow , bruh , bruh , wow , wow , wow . I see that's .
Speaker 1Those are the moments where you know you don't do it often , but there's a couple times in your kids lives where you you know you just want to cuss them out . You know , I mean you want to look them in the eyes and cuss them out . You know what I wanted to do , dog . You know what I wanted to do .
Speaker 1I honestly had a thought of like this is going to be the first time we stay up all night . Yeah , like should I just like get the video games out and we just hang out and we just , you know , they stay up late , they sleep in late . Tomorrow , you know it's going to be a Saturday , you know , like , and then I remember , man , I have little kids , they're like six and four , man , they can't be staying up till two o'clock in the morning . And when I and I told them , I said , listen , man , I was like we had a lot of stuff planned tomorrow . I don't know if we're going to be able to do it because you guys are exhausted . I was like here's what's going to happen . I'm going to tell you what's going to happen . So when it happens , I'm going to look at you and you're going to look at me and I'm going to look at you like , you see , you see , this is from last night , you know , yeah . So I told him everything that was going to happen .
Speaker 1Yeah , dog , they wake up in the morning , dog . And I mean it's 6.45 in the morning . Uh-huh , they wake up , dog . Yeah , bickering . All you hear in the living room is just ah , ah , well , you said this is dumb . I can't , because you know , you know lindsey's like , she's going through it incapacitated . So I'm , I'm not sleeping in the room , you know , I don't even know , in the living room . Maybe are in there . I can't remember where I slept , man , yeah , yeah , but but I woke up to the three ninjas , just yeah , and cold , and tum , tum cheese going at it , man , skedaddling in the cheese , scrapping you know . And so they wanted donuts and I was like , definitely not .
Speaker 1No , I'm not adding cocaine to this , no , I'm not adding crack to this situation . That's one of the situations where you should not add crack . Sometimes crack is appropriate , but this time , but in this situation , we're not adding no Shipley's crack to this . Are you serious , right now , donuts ? No , nah man , nah , man , giving your kids donuts . It's like seriously just cutting open a kilo of cocaine and just tossing it in the middle . I already did the math . I already did the math . You know .
Speaker 1You know how much the donut shop is making off of us , bro . We're keeping them open , that's all I'm saying . We've been keeping that donut shop open since we were undergrads , oh , man , since we were undergrads . Man , bro , anyway , wow , that's , that's me , bro , that's me , that's me , man . Is
AI in Mental Health Therapy
Speaker 1lindsey feeling better ? Yeah , everybody's feeling better ? Uh , shiloh , got a little sick , got a little like head cold . You know same thing with me . You know like it should be done with today , man , but I teach tomorrow .
Speaker 1It's brutal lecturing with this stuff , bro , like the students don't understand what we go through . Yeah , they don't get it . Yeah , they're not compassionate , they just they , just he , he and ha ha . Listen to us . No , we're just little playthings . Yeah , yeah , yeah . They say I haven't been entertained in a while . Yeah , yeah , we're just little . Can you entertain me ? Uh-huh , yeah , uh-huh , even in class . Even in class , you know , I see them , I see them . They don't get it , they don't get it . Thank you anyway . Anyway , hey , man , we're back . Thanks for thanks for thanks for being present , jude . We really appreciate it .
Speaker 1You know , we got a couple things we want to talk about . One thing is , obviously we got a topic , you know , that we kind of want to bring up , you know , and I guess two topics , right , something that's kind of like near and dear to like whatever's going on for us clinically or educationally or from a supervision perspective . But we also got this , you know , kind of like because last week we brought in this segment from um , from an instagram uh , a clinician , you know and this time we got just some like news , right , that has to deal with , like ai and kind of what's going on in the ai world , you know . So , which one you want to , which one you want to hit on first ? Man , let's do the ai stuff , okay , yeah , yeah , all right , so this is , and if we have time we can do the other one , but yeah , I don't want to get too much into the weeds . It's a hot take , you know . It's just , you know it's something that that came up . You know , uh , something that comes up a lot in class . You know , um , and also something that comes up a lot in in therapy . So , uh , the the time , maybe we can link this , like in the show notes or whatever . Man , but the the times uh wrote this , this article , um about , uh , this .
Speaker 1This is UK startup call . I think it's called limbic Um . It's a . It's kind of a like an AI , uh , clinical AI for for , uh , for mental health , um , you can go to the website . I don't , you know this isn't me like supporting the brand or whatever , but it's just something interesting where you know , I'm seeing this trend of not just students using AI , for you know their assignments , you know like AI generates a like an outline for them to write a paper , you know , and like that's kind of what AI was used for before .
Speaker 1You know , hey , make sure your students aren't cheating with you know , chat GPT on you know , and chat GPT is writing their papers , just like , be attentive to that , right . But I think now what we're seeing is ai I'm going to use this word infiltrating , uh , the , the clinical space as well . I think first we saw it with clinical notes , you know , like , hey , use ai to help you do your clinical notes , you know . Know , use AI to help you , you know , write your notes to so that it can . You know , so that you can you could take the pressure off of having to remember , you know .
Speaker 1And then I think there's a transition of , hey , do this AI answering machine , you know , or this AI office assistant , you know this , this AI call person , or like a person to call your clinic , and AI will pick up and then , you know , it'll give you certain prompts to uh , to kind of take the client on this journey of setting up an appointment or maybe potentially not seeing you as a provider , you know . And then now I think there's this transition where clients are not going to use real-life clinicians anymore and they're going to have these AI , in a way chatbots that are well-versed in things like CBT , person-centered , and you have these identities that really fit for the client . You know , and I think , like I know , I don't want to get like a tinfoil hat , you know , because sometimes we talk about this and I hear you in the back just twisting that foil . I don't want to get on this tinfoil thing , you know . But I saw that article and then I went and checked out the website you know the website of that company limbic and I was like , oh man , it's like , should we just quit now ? No , I'm not , man , that's how you get like , that's how you be getting some time . Man , there's this , there's this intake agent , this triage agent , this therapy agent . You know , and you know the therapy agent delivers CBT through generative chat .
Speaker 1You know , and I have man , I have clients who use chat , cbt , as you know , as like a buffer in between sessions . You know , but , man , I , you know , I'm not , I'm not nervous Cause if , if you're good people to still come to you , I'm just interested to see , I'm not afraid of it , I'm just interested to see what the future is going to look like for the profession Once we start mixing in a more affordable way of getting treatment , like a chat , like a chat bot , like a chat GPT , you know , like clinician , you know that's so , that's I'm just throwing that out there , that like that's the , that is the thing , so okay . So why , why aren't you scared ? I'm not scared because , because it's , it's innovative , you know , and I think , like , innovation is not all good , you know , but I think , with innovation , you know , it highlights maybe some potential areas where we need to grow , you know , and it can also highlight some potential areas .
Speaker 1That's like that's dangerous . Okay . So areas where we need to grow is , you know , therapy needs to be more accessible for people . Thousand percent Right , it needs to be more accessible for people . And I don't mean accessible in a sense of like , oh , I'm in a rural population and I need to find a therapist . I mean , like there's no black therapist in my area and I need to . You know , or maybe I'm too anxious to communicate to a real person , or just like you know , they can't afford it , or I can't afford it . You know , the therapy just seems too intimidating , you know , therapy just seems too intimidating , you know . And so yeah , yeah , uh , so that's , that's the , the part that's like innovative , where it's like all right , this is cool , but then the dangerous part is the , the disconnect between the human to human connection . You know well , yeah , for sure , and the , the , the dwindling need for that human to human connection . I think that's one concern .
Speaker 1Another concern is , like , how much , how instinctual this profession is . You know what I mean , like being able to sit in the room with another person and use your , not just like your lived experience , you know , which builds the instinct , but all of your senses , you know , to be able to catch on to like , well , you know , let me , let me share something , bro , literally right before this , I met with a client , and the client is , you know , mid , no , early 20s , early 20s , right , I've been working with this client since they were , huh , oh , yeah , let me go ahead and uh , it's got it almost . No , no , I'm working with this client since they were , uh , like a sophomore in college , you know . So we've seen a lot of life transitions together , you know , and so at the end of the session today , you know , they were like , I just feel the current , I feel like I'm at in a playing a video game where the level keeps moving and I'm kind of stand , I'm kind of steel , but the level is like on my back pushing me forward .
Speaker 1Yeah , like mario , yeah , exactly like mario , yeah , and I just just feel anxious about what decisions I should make . Oh , no , as far as like I just let that wall just smash me into something . I'm ready to quit , I'm ready to be Take me , nah , throw me in the water , nah , man , but I so this is the thing that AI may not be able to offer . Is that how I said ? Hey , that wall , you know like it never stops , you know , and she goes . Does it ever Like how she was ? Like how do you deal with it ? You know , and that it was a point to where I could have been like , oh , I'm the clinician and you know , you don't , I don't need to share . I'm curious why you're so curious about why , how I deal with it . You know , I just share .
Speaker 1It came from a genuine place , you know , and I was like man it . Genuine place , you know , and I was like man it . It's so much easier to make decisions when you know . You have this perception of uh , of uh , oppression . You know , this was like all kids are oppressive . Having a job is oppressive . You know , all this stuff , you know , but I was like man . Actually it's so much more freeing , you know like . I can't take this job in virginia because I don't want to uproot my kids from the school that they're in , you know , and the soccer team they play for and the dance conservatory they're in , you know like . So it makes it so much easier to make this decision . So I still feel that wall on my back , but it's a lot easier going forward because I know exactly what type of life I want to have , you know .
Speaker 1And for her she's like oh , I don't , that's the thing . I have so many different options to where , if I feel anxious about what the future looks like , you know , and it's like , try to get that from a chat bot . Yeah , I mean , it hasn't lived life , you know what I mean Like it doesn't have to die , you know . And so there's some you know what I mean . There's some things innately about it that makes it different than you know what it's like to be in a room with me or you . Yeah , you know , but like one of the things that I feel like , you know , doesn't get talked enough about . Well , it kind of ?
Speaker 1Does you know how therapy is like an art and a science , you know , and some clinicians like we talked about this in the cast before are actually more technicians than they are clinicians , yeah , you know . And so the technicians are going to give you a worksheet . The technicians are going to run you through a model . The technicians are going to run you through a model . The technicians are going to run you through a gotman model . Are they're going to run you through an emdr model , you know , are they're going to rent you . You know , and it's like there's not a lot of heart , spontaneity , instincts are like flexibility in it . It's like this is just what we do and this is the next step in that .
Speaker 1You know , um , chat g GP is going to eat those therapists alive . Oh , yeah , yeah , like , why , why would ? Why would somebody need to pay you ? You know , like to to do something that they could do themselves with help from an AI ? Yeah , yeah , like , yeah , you know , like I have a good friend of mine who you know he was . He was , you know , trying to gain some awareness of , like the next step in his life . And just you know , like , I have a good friend of mine who you know he was , you know , trying to gain some awareness of , like the next step in his life , and just you know things like that . And so he asked Chad GP to ask him some questions . You know , just ask me 100 questions , you know , ask me 50 questions , ask me 25 questions on this topic , you know , and like , help me get some understanding of myself . You know , like now a therapist who's a technician , who just you know , it's like kind of trying to life coach you through something , yeah , chai gp is gonna , it's gonna crush those people . You know what I mean .
Speaker 1Now , like , if , if , if , you can master the art of therapy and this is just my opinion , right , uh , to me , if you can master the art of therapy , which is that timing of a reflection , which is an understanding of how to conceptualize a case from different theoretical orientations , yeah , timing of a joke , timing of a joke , or like a , like a specific eye contact that lets the client know , the experiment that you take with a couple whenever they're in the middle of a fight , the little turn of a phrase , that kind of stuff , as you're moving them through a structure that you've created , that's apart from a Gottman or you know whatever right that you've created , you found to be successful , that matches with your personality and your style , and that's what you offer a client . Those therapists are going to be a little bit tougher for chat GPT to get yeah , you know what I mean . Yeah , a little bit tougher for chat gpt to get . Yeah , I mean yeah , like , and I think I think those you know it's very easy . Excuse me , man , that's chat gpt coming from my voice . Chat gpt that blow dart . Yeah , I saw it . One of us , one of us , keep my name out your mouth . Yeah , man , um , nah , man , I feel like it's so easy to say chad gpt is coming for all of us . Like , you know , get your , get your elbow patch , get your tweet , everybody , get your stuff , you know , uh .
Speaker 1But now I think I think chat gpt is coming for certain types of certain of us , you know , and I think I think , if you're nervous about it , if you're nervous about it , maybe , maybe , look within you , maybe look within yourself . I mean , if you are I'm talking nervous , yeah , if you're like , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , oh , do you did your kids ? Your kids don't
Art vs. Technical Approach to Therapy
Speaker 1watch cartoons , oh , yeah , okay , yeah , I mean , we usually do that , you know , while they're like in their . You know , that's their reward , yeah , that's their reward for training . Yeah , yeah , uh , yeah , you remember when bruno mars played that ? Uh , played that , that , uh , you know that bird , yeah and something , and he kind of broke through the clouds and he's just saying his way down I feel like sometimes that's what Shiloh's doing . He'd just be off in the back , something will happen and you'll just hear uh-oh , uh-oh , what's happening over there .
Speaker 1Anyway , man , yeah , if it does scare , anyway , man , yeah , yeah , if it does . If it does scare you , then there's a reason , man , so , so , so I think it's just like the constant and compact , you know . It's like , hey , bro , now , now you can see people across their lines , yeah , which means that , like you know , you got to come with it because there's no reason for somebody to just choose you because you're around . Yeah , you don't now , now , clients don't have to just settle for what's around , you know , yeah , I don't , you don't have to just settle , you know . So , you know , yeah , well , all right , I just wanted to , I just wanted to throw it out there , man , because that was something that kind of .
Speaker 1I was reading some of the you know , the counseling news and I feel like maybe we should bring this more to the cast of . This is kind of , this is what's out there . This is what some innovative stuff that's going on in the field yeah , man , but all right , all right . So we got about 10 minutes left . Man , what's that topic that you wanted to bring up ? Oh , yeah , man , you mentioned something it's going to take longer than 10 minutes to talk about , man .
Speaker 1But , hey , bro , hey man , first year graduate school , first week , first week . Yeah , for us , I know y'all , y'all , because your school , if you could call it that , if you wanted to call it that , y'all meet in what you got like 10 more weeks of summer . It's been around since the 1800s . So I don't , yeah , I mean it's more of an institution then . Yeah , so it looks like one for sure .
Speaker 1Hey , speaking of ChatGPT , go to ChatGPT and ask ChatGPT which one of our programs is better and see what it says . I invite you near . No , I employ I again . We just talked about the fallacies of church . I insist , I know . No , no , no , no , I double dog , dare you ? All right , all right To go , no , but for real , but for real . Hey bro , do your students ever ? Yeah , yeah , they do , yeah , nah bro , it's ghetto . It's ghetto , yeah , it's ghetto . Nah , bro , do yours ?
Speaker 1Okay , what's y'all's position as a faculty ? Do y'all set out to challenge students ? No , we're trying to make it as easy as possible . We want that money , money , we want the money . Nah , bro , okay , man , okay , whose responsibility is it ? Whose responsibility is it to ? Is it the faculty's responsibility to give the students something , or is it the student's responsibility to get something out of the experience ? Man , I think you can only ask that question .
Speaker 1If your program is healthy , let's assume it is Okay , all right . Let's assume it's our program Okay , all right , or your program , because that's one thing , it's not great but it is healthy . The slander is . And if I could take one person , if I could take one person from y'all's program to be in our program starting tomorrow , yeah , you know who ? Do you think it would be ? Probably the custodial worker that without her , the whole building would . No , I love our custodial worker . I feel like without the whole building would shut down , bro , you know , she made my kids , she knitted my kids blankets .
Speaker 1Bro , People , man , those are . They are unsung heroes . People don't understand how important they are . They don't get it . But if you , if you're in a program and your faculty aren't on like first name basis with the person that comes in and like cleans up the , you know , yeah , yeah , that's . That's a tangent , but it does say a lot , though . Man , uh , okay , it does , hey , but no , um , miss anita . Yeah , no , no , it'd be miss anita , I take , I take miss right now . Wow , that's okay . Yeah , I mean that's yeah , I mean yeah , but anyway , that makes sense . I can see that . Long story short , bro .
Speaker 1The topic that I was going to bring up , you know , is this idea of like challenging and being challenged and challenging yourself . I think it's our job as faculty to make the program as airtight as possible . So airtight meaning this is the stuff that you're going to need to know to get out into the world and do a pretty good job as a beginning clinician . You're not going to get out into the world and be a 15 year season clinician , but you're going to go out into the field . You're going to
Student Initiative and Program Challenges
Speaker 1know exactly how . You're going to know what therapy is . You're going to know how to be in relationship and make good contact with clients . You're going to know what good supervision is , what unhealthy supervision is , right , you're going to know all those things and I think that's our job . But I think , by nature of that , programs are challenging Because in a program like that , that program challenges your relationships with other people , right , which makes you question who am I Like , who am I in these relationships ?
Speaker 1Right , it challenges your world , it challenges all of those things and I think if a student goes into a program that's airtight , the student can dictate at what level they challenge themselves . For sure , and I think that's what I'm getting at man , is that , like , we provide an opportunity . It's an opportunity . Yeah , we provide situations , we provide invitations , experiences . You know , we provide a certain level of guided , intentional , psychological stress , right , we provide all of those things , you know .
Speaker 1But a student can walk through our program . They can . They can make really good grades . They can make really good grades , really good grades . They can be kind , they can share appropriately . They can share appropriately . They could keep some stuff close to their chest . They could keep some stuff close to their chest , like we're not going to sit here and break you , we're not going to push you , we're not going to sit here and break you . We're not going to push you , we're not going to . You know , because it all it , it , it wheels out . In the end it comes out in the wash . It comes out in the wash , it comes out .
Speaker 1You see them , a cohort graduates and like maybe three or four of them is doing really well in the community . You know three , four , five , six are doing really well in the community . But the other , you know three , four , five , six are doing really well in the community , but the other ones , man , it's really hard to find clients , it's hard to keep a job , it's you know . They come out and they're like oh , I already like this profession , you know . Let me , let me just say this man , the students show up to supervision and they have watched their tape , they've reviewed it , they have watched the people's tapes . You know , they maybe read a little article on something that they want to talk about . They come into supervision with a little list of things they want to talk about , timestamps of when you want them to watch . You know what tapes you wanted to watch , what part of the tape you wanted to watch , maybe with questions , right , and an ideal of , like a treatment goal and maybe even a little bit of a , you know , theoretical conceptualization of what's going on .
Speaker 1The students who push themselves each week , no matter how tired they are , no matter what they got going on , right , if stuff is going on in their life , to keep them from being that good , they find a way to let that stuff go . Yeah , you know , or manage it , manage it absolutely . You know what I mean , like it's hey , real quick . And also the students who , man , you're not , you're not reading and highlighting every single important thing in the chapter . But but you , you scan the chapter and you and oh man , I got this question about , I wonder what that looks like in practice Curious About this particular , you know , the students who volunteer , the students who , you know , those students , I feel like they're not asking for a challenge , they're going to find one .
Speaker 1You know they're going to make a . You know they're going , they're going to make it challenging for themselves . You know , man , the students who and maybe this is controversial , you know but the students who are like I don't feel safe in this program , so I'm going to sit in the back corner and like , not communicate or not unless there's a real , real safety issue . But if there is a real safety issue and there's like a way it was more discomfort , but that's the thing . If it's a safety issue , cool , you know , I , I get that and there's a way and how of like you know how to deal with that . But if it's like I'm uncomfortable communicating you , you know , then yeah , you know , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1So anyway , we could , we could , talk about it more , man , I got to go , but but yeah , there's just something in there about challenged , being challenged , fighting your own challenge , you know , like making the program what you want it to be . You know the cohorts who do that . Well , the core to you just kind of see , doing that extra stuff , extra stuff . Yeah , man , those are the ones that I feel like right now are reaping the benefits . Yeah , yeah , yeah , all right . Well , thanks for another week , man , let's see if we can keep this going . You know , still don't trust you . So , same time next week as far as I'm concerned . Same time next week , man . Alright , y'all , thanks for listening , we'll see y'all next week . So I want to let you know . I appreciate that . Yep , bye-bye .
