The Twin Therapists Podcast
Drs. Jude and Julius Austin, identical twin brothers, lift the curtain on the "doing" of psychotherapy. With unwavering honesty, raw vulnerability, and unwavering compassion for the complexities of the human condition, they illuminate the path for both fledgling clinicians and seasoned professionals alike. The Twin Therapists podcast is your gateway to a world where healing meets humanity, leaving no stone unturned in the relentless pursuit of understanding the depths of the human soul.
The Twin Therapists Podcast
Navigating Difficult Conversations in Classrooms and Beyond
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We explore the complexities of parenting, professional growth, and navigating difficult conversations in therapeutic and educational settings. From toddlers mimicking adult language to teaching children independence, the episode weaves together insights about embracing discomfort as a pathway to growth.
• Discussing the challenges of children saying inappropriate things in public while balancing professional identity with parenting reality
• Exploring the parallel between helping a child climb down a ladder independently and guiding therapy students through practicum challenges
• Examining how suffering becomes useful when embraced rather than avoided, particularly in therapeutic contexts
• Addressing how existentialism informs therapeutic practice by making suffering a "best friend" in the growth process
• Confronting the challenge of difficult classroom dynamics, particularly in multicultural courses where sensitive topics arise
• Balancing responsibility between students and faculty in maintaining respectful learning environments
If you have questions for us, reach out at thetwintherapists@gmail.com. We'll be back next week as we continue our commitment to consistency!
If you have any questions about any counseling related topics or would like the twins to share their thoughts about a particular counseling case - reach out with the info below:
https://thetwintherapists.com/
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Contact: thetwintherapists@gmail.com
Welcome Back to Consistency
Speaker 1hi y'all , welcome back . Hey , man , this is , this is another week of consistency . First off , jesus , let me just say people are starting to congratulate us , like we're in AA or something . Hey , you guys are doing so well . I see you guys are doing so well . You guys keep it up . You know we're all thinking about you .
Speaker 1I was telling my grandma Work the plan . They're consistent , work the plan , they're consistent . And you know , work the plan , take the steps . I'm excited for y'all . I'm excited for your continued growth . Don't skip a step , take the steps .
Speaker 1Okay , golly , hey , hey , was it that bad ? You're not alone . You're not alone . God , god , dog , okay , yeah , this is what happens when you say hey , man , let's meet on a Monday at 11 . Every Monday at 11 . I know I was like look , we just picked a time bro . We just picked a time . Jesus finally picked a time bro . We just picked a time , jesus finally picked a time bro . So here we go , man . Anyway , bro , tell the people what we're talking about today . Man , bro , we're going to do some check-ins .
Speaker 1You found something on social media that you want to talk about . Yeah , it's a deep conversation , man , it's a deep conversation . Yeah , I mean , it's something that you found on social media , but it's reflected in a student that you met with . Oh yeah , oh yeah , the work that we do . And then the theory we covered this week , which is existentialism , yeah , and then there's a question . I guess we can , I guess this could be a new segment called questions from the back of class , where it's just a question from it's a student who sent an email and I guess you know , I guess a student I don't know which program , but a student who sent an email , you know , with a question that basically they didn't really want to ask in class . Um , so , because you know , sometimes when you have students that's like that , they sit in the back of class and they got questions , but they don't really want to , necessarily not . Not every program is safe , exactly , to be honest , some programs are safe , but some classes aren't for some students , some other students make class unsafe for other students . Yeah , don't you have some of those in your program ? I got a couple
Wild Words from a Two-Year-Old
Speaker 1. Anyway , man , let's start with some check-ins . I got a couple , anyway , man , all right , let's start with some check-ins . I got a small check-in that's just been grinding my gears for a couple days now . All right , man , how do you say small . I don't even know how to say this , but now I'm going to just say it how it is Kofi , my two-year-old son , right , kof has just a mouth on him , right ?
Speaker 1Oh yeah , I forgot you telling me . He just talks back and he does it in like a joking way because he knows you know . So it's like Kof pick up your socks and he's like you pick up my socks . Yeah , that's how Val and me are Just stuff like that . You know Well , kof .
Speaker 1He started to like say , like I don't know , like words that sound like cuss words , no , but he substitutes the cuss word out for like just a normal word , right ? So he'll go . What the fuck say ? Who's raising those kids , man ? He'll go . What the fuck say , who's raising those kids ? Man ? He go , what the fuck say . And then he'll look at me like like dude , you gotta stop saying that . It's about the point of upsetness . You're not even angry . You gotta stop saying that , man , and he'll go what the hell cat ? I go , what the hell cat ? What the hell cat , wow , wow , it's bad , it's bad .
Speaker 1So what y'all going to do , man ? What y'all going to do ? I know what we would do . Oh , I know what y'all would do . Yeah , we're just going to give them the tried and true extinction . What you mean , bro . It's so hard to ignore it , because we were on the soccer field the other day . We're in the middle of the soccer field and Kof , he kicked the ball and it missed the goal . And he goes . What the fuck say ? The ref halfway got his Jell-O card .
Speaker 1I was like K ? Oh , hey man , hey , bro , yeah , hey , why don't y'all wash this mouth out with soap ? No , we want to put some motor oil in it . You know the old Motor oil ? Yeah , just a little bit , not a lot . You know , hey , if you give Kof if anybody has seen Kof if you give that boy motor oil , he may turn into Iron man .
Speaker 1If you mean me , I don't think you give that monster child , it's just Is that your kid ? Is that your kid ? Is that your kid ? Is that your kid ? It's not so much that he's saying it , it's like the reaction from other parents . Oh , for sure that I'm trying to avoid . For sure you know why . For sure you know why it's like oh God , but that's the tension . That's the tension . That's the tension I never want my kids to feel like , because of whatever position I hold in the community , they got to behave a certain way .
Speaker 1Yeah , but I also want them to know that , because of the positions I hold , there's some things we can and cannot do . We can't do that . There's a way to behave , but also , don't feel the pressure . Obviously , be yourself , but also , if you don't talk to these people , that is a part of the 100 black men . If you don't stop digging in your nose right now , stop it . If y'all don't stop digging in your nose , you're walling out . Stop it . If y'all don't stop acting a fool right now , I'm going to act a fool . Bro , I be looking at my kids , blinking my eyes , like don't make me . Embarrass you in front of your friends . We are not in the house . See , I have shame . I have it , but Megan does not have shame . Yeah , you need somebody . That's how she is . That's how she is . I'm a parent . I'm parenting here . I'm parenting right now . Maybe Will Like oh , so you're talking about you don't act bad , but I was the one cleaning the doo-doo from your underwear because you don't help your booty .
Speaker 1Good enough . No , let's air it out on Phil 1D . No , I was that bad . No , let's air it out on Phil 1D Not like that bad . No , let's air it out . No , let's air it out . No , because you're talking back . No , no , you was big and bad to talk back to me , but you're not too big and bad to sleep by yourself in your room . No , tell him how you were scared last night . No , tell him how you had to come sleep on the sofa with me because you were scared . No , no , you want to talk about the betrayal . I know you , bro . You know what that reminds me . That reminds me . Have you ever been working with a couple brad session ? And ?
Speaker 1Uh , and they sit there and I guess you can tell that they had some kind of communication of like , this is what we're going to talk about and this is , for definitely sure , what we're not going to talk about . You know what I mean . And somewhere along the way in the conversation , somebody brings up the thing that they said they were going to talk about and they look at each other . We say what we're going to talk about . We say what we're going to talk about . That's how we said . We said . We said well , see , this is what I'm talking about . This is how you break my truck every time . Let's see this .
Speaker 1I can't trust you . This is why I can't say anything . This is what you asked me what's wrong ? And I say nothing . Now we're talking . This is why I'll be saying nothing . That's why I'll be saying nothing . And then you're looking at them like I mean now I gotta , now , I gotta know . Now I have to know , now I have to know . Yeah , I am full of shame .
Speaker 1Megan will air it out . Me too . I'll be trying to sneak Ellie Perrin . You know , like discipline in public . Tell them how I had to hold your hand while you were constipated on the toilet . No , tell them . Tell them how much Miralax you drink . I'm the one who fixed it in the cap . Tell him you want to talk back . But you know what's funny ? Both ways work , because there's times where we'd be in public and something's going on and Kenyon will do something . Yeah , and I'll just give him a like hey , man , is this really how you want this to go ? Hey , man , is this really how you want this to go ? Yeah , because that's how you want this to go .
Speaker 1Like , really think , think , get some perspective . Yeah , I don't find yourself
The Challenge of Parenting in Public
Speaker 1, you know . You know the cue that I use with with my kids is snap out of it , snap , snap out of it . Snap out of it like you're trying to , like I say find yourself . But , dude , we , I'm , I'm sweating , trying to trying to move all this stuff in the back of the car which you know , your sister's , you know like , and you're trying to go to bash's house like , hey , man , get in , the snap out , we're not gonna get feet for cars . Snap out of it , like , be aware of what's going on right now . That's exactly . That's exactly when I say find yourself it . Uh , find yourself in this moment . Get some perspective , put your feet down , yeah , put your feet on the ground . Snap out of it . Wiggle your toes , pay attention to what's happening . You know , have some situational awareness .
Speaker 1That used to do that for us too was like use both hands , use both thing was like use both hands , use both hands , use both hands . Sometimes , just send it JT and Juice . Yeah , that's it . Yeah , jt and Juice . Hey man , hey , hey . What was the thing he used to say ? This is not a game , this is not a game , this is not a game .
Speaker 1And then one tear starts to come down our eyes and he goes daddy , I'm not fussing , you are fussing . Yes , you are , you are very much so fussing . You are clearly and I don't want to get into the semantics of this in this moment . I'm not trying to tell you how to raise your kids , we don't have time for it but , sir , you are very much fussing . If this is fussing , what is fussing then ? What is it I'm scared to see . Oh , you want to see fussing . Oh , that's what you want to see . Hey , bray , nothing scarier than a quick whisper . Hey , you ever had to do that with your sons and you , and they get like the oh , he's . Oh , this is not a game . Oh , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1For me is usually when , like , safety's involved , you know , but yeah , yeah , I don't know what it is about my voice that changes when it's a safety issue . That makes them , yeah , yeah , run towards me , yeah , yeah , like it doesn't matter what it is . It's the same mechanism that , oh , you don't have any daughters , but it's the same mechanism that one like your daughter screams it's a particular screamer , like she's running away from her brothers and whatever , yeah , and it's another scream of like , oh , I'm scared bro . It's like that that scream has a way of just like cutting through the air Like a primal , a primal , instinctual draw . Yeah , I don't feel that way towards the boys . Yeah , yeah , yeah . No , bro , I'm joking . Yeah , they do , I get it . Let me check In your house . It's been too quick for myself , bro . Too quick checking , bro , too quick . Too quick for myself , too quick check-in , too quick check-in Talking about raising boys , right ?
Speaker 1So Keaton's front tooth he lost his front tooth . Did I send you a picture ? No , you didn't send me a picture . I sent you a picture . Did I tell you that I had to pull Roby's front tooth out at the soccer field ? Yeah , yeah , yeah . So that's what happened . Yeah , that's what happened . Yeah , that's what happened .
Speaker 1She was , she was bleeding from her mouth . She , she , bro . This is why our daughters are so gangster . She was bleeding from her mouth . She took a sip of water like , swash it around her mouth , spit the blood out and went back and played . I was like , oh no , that's just awesome . Kyra would have been on the bench .
Speaker 1Is it bleeding ? Is it bleeding my own blood ? Why is my face up ? Did they mess up my hairline ? Don't do my nephew something like that . You mutilated me , dad . You mutilated me , father , father , you mutilated me .
Speaker 1I don't even have to seem small anymore . I'm not the same person . I don't even know me . I don't even have to say smile anymore . I'm not the same person . I don't even know why . I'm going to look in the mirror . I had a dirty napkin that I grabbed her tooth and yanked it , you don't even care . It went back in .
Speaker 1I was like oh Bro , so similar thing . Right , dog , we were doing something . I think I was getting food ready or something . And we were doing something . I think I was getting food ready or something , and Lindsay was in the living room with the kids , and which is , we were getting pizza . So it's not like I was like cooking , yeah , yeah , so it was organizing the pizza and cutting some vegetables , right , and all I hear is let's go . Oh , this hurts so bad . Oh , mommy , mommy , okay , let's go .
Speaker 1I'm talking like some samoan , like I , I don't know what kind of chant dog , but I hear this dude in the back , bro , just going super singing , and he okay , I'll let you know when I'm ready . Oh yeah , oh bro , you're just on the phone trying to get a pepperoni and no , no , no , the pizza was there already . I didn't know what was going on , you know . And so he goes , okay , we just pull it , just pull it and then , like she pulled , pulled a tooth and he goes oh god , no , what's happening in there , dog , let's say , he comes out holding the tooth , his mouth is full of blood , dog , and he goes we did it , mommy , put the tooth . If you don't get , what is wrong with you ? Man with it , bro . So he lost his tooth , man , and and we didn't want to put the first tooth he's lost . No , no , no , no , no . But it was one that was like kind of just lingering , man , just lingering . And then , secondly , man , and this is my last check-in , bro so something happened yesterday .
Speaker 1We were at a friend's house and they had this like tree net kind of thing . Bro , it was super dope , right , and Valen , and the way you get up to it is you climb this ladder , the ladder is high , you know , you climb this ladder , the ladder is high , you know , I don't know , 20 feet , maybe , you know , uh , and valent climbed up but couldn't get down , like he was in the net , in the tree it's . I mean , you're in the top of a tree . Yeah , you know one of those like paracord net kind of thing .
Speaker 1A side note , real quick . This generation of people who's probably listening to this podcast has no idea what it's like to get lost in a McDonald's playhouse thing . You remember the McDonald's little playhouse thing ? When I tell you Valen's face , look like , yeah , you remember me . And you getting lost together in the McDonald's playpen . Yeah , you know , in the middle of the slide you could you get twisted around and you don't know which way it's up or down . And there's no windows in those slides Like they have them now . So you don't know , it's like a casino . You don't know what time it is .
Speaker 1How long have I been here ? Yeah , well , why would I survive ? Why would I survive ? Surely my parents have left . They've just given up . Yeah , why would they stay ? Why would they ? Yeah , why would they stay If I , if I , if my son got lost in the McDonald's playpen , I would write him off .
Speaker 1Yeah , this is probably where kids , there's probably some back door . If you can't find yourself to the slide , you can't ride . Oh , this is Neverland , this is Neverland , so , anyway . So this is Slumberland Pajama , pajama , pajama , pajama , bro . Long story short . Man , long story short .
Speaker 1I'm at the bottom of the ladder . Keen's up there . Yeah , keen comes down . Fallon's at the top . He's in the tree , can't climb down the ladder . Petrified Right Hasn't started crying yet . Keen's halfway up .
Speaker 1And Keen comes down to me and I was like , hey , man , let me go up there , you know . And Keen was like daddy , I got it , I got it , I'm going to he goes , I'm going , goes , valen , just climb down , just put your foot down . You know , valen's like I can't , I'm scared . And Keon was like but you don't have to be scared , there's nothing to be scared about . Look . And then he goes up and down and Valen's like and then there was a fly that flew on Valen and that was it . He was like there's bugs up here . I'm not using the ladder , I'm just going to jump off .
Speaker 1Long story short , bro , I had to get up there . What was the last time you climbed a ladder ? You know , because my friends are all around and they're telling me you want me to go up there . And I was like listen , listen , if you go up there , he'll never be able to get himself down . I was like I believe in him
Climbing Life's Ladders: Teaching Independence
Speaker 1, he can get himself down . So I had to climb up this ladder .
Speaker 1Plantar fasciitis and all . Bro , boy , you had your insoles in no , bro . I had my Jerusalem slippers on bro . I had the Jerusalem . J's on , bro . No arch support at all . My toes went Just limp into the ladder . So I get up there , man . And I was like Fallon , bro , we can stay up here as long as you need man . It was , feet are inflamed . I went into full crisis , you know , take your time . You're probably out of breath . Just take your time . I'm going to be here . Just be down now , though . Now would be nice . Daddy just could rest his eyes . Now would be nice . Now would be perfect . Though Daddy's just thinking Daddy's tootsies are . Daddy's tootsies are playing right now .
Speaker 1I was like listen , and I guess this brings us into the video , you know . But basically I said I can't go up there to get you . I was like this is the thing you have to do by yourself . Now I could have gone up there and got him no big deal , but I was like this is the thing you have to do by yourself . I was like Valen , look , it starts by putting one foot down . Just put one foot down . And he put one foot down and he was like daddy , get me . And I was like I'll get you , but put your other foot down . He put his one foot down and he was like daddy get me . And I was like I'll get you , but put your other foot down . Yeah , he puts his other foot down , hands in the thing . He's , daddy , grab me .
Speaker 1I was like , I was like take one step closer to me . And I kept going like five feet above the ground . He's just terrible . No , but it was high . I mean legitimately .
Speaker 1If I , if I was a four-year-old and I was up at the top of a tree , I'd be like one of those things where you're like how did I get up ? So I've never . That's what he did . He was just focused on climbing the ladder . And then when he got up there , you know .
Speaker 1So anyway , I kept , I kept stepping down and he kept saying , daddy , get me . And I was like just keep one step , one step , one step . And then I was on the ground and I was like valent , look down . And he like turned around . He was at the bottom of the ladder , he jumped off , you know , and uh , and I was like man , look how far you came , man . You know I was like dude that's , you can do this kind of stuff , man . You know , like you can do this . And then he looked at me , I looked at him and I , you know , was tearing up , you know , obviously , the father of pride in the , in the , in the work , you know , and he was like I got to poop . That's almost exactly what he said . I think I peed a little bit . No , I'm worried . He said I gave him a hug , you know , and he goes Daddy .
Speaker 1Daddy , give me a juice box . Pinkless dog , bankless . This is bankless In one ear . Dog , give me a juice box , bankless . Roll dog , bankless . I was like you don't understand how the most important step a man could take is the next one .
Speaker 1But is the Capri Sun cold ? Yet Did you not get the lesson ? Did you put the Capri Sun on ice ? It starts with one step , son , there's no ladders to climb . Son , there's no hot , there's no . Is the Cap , son ? There's no hot , there's no . Is the Capri Sun ready or not ? Why are you talking to me ? Your breath smells like blue moon . Get out of here , give me a juice box . And why are you so sweaty father ? Why are you so sweaty father ? Why are you limping ? Why are you hobbling as he walks past ? He just gives you your little ice packs for your plan of behavior . Yeah , bro , that boss said .
Speaker 1That boss said give me a juice box , you know , but like I know this is going to sound like a crazy parallel , but like man , that's how it kind of is in , like practicum , you know , like that's a crazy parallel , but you're right , you're getting into practicum . It's like , hey , man , I can't do it , I can't do this . I've climbed too high . Like I thought in the beginning of the program that I could do this , yeah , and now , when you're a practicum , you're in the tree , I'm here , yeah , in the tree , yeah , and as a , as a , as a supervisor , it is very much so like , uh , man , I can't , you know , I can't be in a room with you .
Speaker 1Yeah , I literally just had that conversation , literally just had that conversation with a student . Well , you were saying about that , you were talking about the thing with that student . There's a social media post or a question . Yeah , I mean , we don't have to play the thing . Yeah , we don't have time .
Speaker 1So , basically , I watched this
Making Suffering Useful: Existential Growth
Speaker 1video . I think it's on uh , alpha motivation . I think it's the name of the , the pipe , the uh instagram , okay , and it's of uh shia labouf and he's and he's talking about suffering , right , and the question that he was answering , just like a back patio video was basically um , how do you make suffering useful ? You know , that was the question how do you make suffering useful ? You know , and so I've been having this conversation , cause I just taught existentialism this week , and so what we , what we talked about , you know , we talked about , like you know , how do you make it useful ?
Speaker 1And I'm stealing something from , oh , dr Ray Erie , our mentor and the person who taught us everything , we knew Everything , who takes full responsibility for whatever happens and the repercussions of that knowledge . Call him whenever . If we hurt you call him . Yeah , man , and about how you make it your best friend . You know , that's how you make it useful . Is that you use the suffering . Yeah , you know , and everything is suffering . You know , I'm not saying it like everything is suffering , I'm saying like honesty is suffering . You know humility is suffering .
Speaker 1You know genuineness , to some extent you know what I mean in session , yeah , and like I don't think people I don't think especially students think about what it's like to sit with somebody through that kind of suffering , like you know , like one of the things that came up in supervision this week or last week was this idea of like fighting for your integrity . You know , actually think joe bennett , who's a therapist obviously my supervisee , but he's a therapist in waco uh , he talked about , about that in in session and in supervision that like , yes , maybe a supervisor has a way that they want you to be , but you definitely have a perspective of your identity and so what you're doing in that relationship is fighting for your integrity . Yeah , you know , I'm trying to hold on to who and how I think I should be , or like , or am in this moment , and you're telling me to let that go . You know , and and that's what's happening in therapy , you know , for the client , but then also for the , the , the counselor . You know that . You know people are coming to be fixed and you have to be as the helper , the one who fixes , you know , as opposed to being the one who sits in the suffering with them . You know , yeah , man , but also man .
Speaker 1I think what students sometimes don't get or don't recognize early on is that a lot of our profession is reflective . You know , it's not reflective in the sense of like a mirror , but like reflective in the sense of like . You know you're driving home and this client's suffering . You know you reflect on it Like . What does it mean to me . You know what if that was me ? Like , what does it mean to me ? You know what ? What if that was me ? How would I react to it ? You know , man ? And that , that stuff , man , I would say that reflective period , sometimes in session and after session , creates the most growth for me , just as a human , you know , in the profession .
Speaker 1Not not the fact that sometimes my therapy helps clients or the fact that you know I did a really good job with the client , so that must mean I'm doing something . Well , I think that stuff is early on , like , maybe in practice I'm an internship yeah , you want to , you want to see the help , right . But I also think that , um , I also think that when a client experiences a human experience that's different from mine or maybe similar to mine , and I have that period of in the shower or working out or whatever , where I'm thinking , oh man , like this client's experience really made me explore something that I never explored before . You know , man , that's like huge growth . That's like when the suffering for me is meaningful , it's the most useful yeah , it's useful , but would you say that ? So , like , I have this idea of it being like a doorway . You know what I mean Like you can walk in it or you cannot .
Speaker 1Okay , like a lot of the things we talked about in supervision was like you know how . So let's say , somebody like cheats right on their partner or something , and like you have the person who came into therapy , you know the person who did the cheating Right , and it's not just and it's not just the fact that they did that and the repercussions of it and what it means for everybody around . Dissonance , you know this , like oh my gosh , I can't believe . Like who am ? I thought I was this person , but it turns out I'm that person .
Speaker 1And it's in that dissonance that , like a lot of the suffering , having the anxiety or the depression or whatever , you know , there's some first order stuff like everybody's upset with me or I'm gonna lose my , my job , or I'm going to lose my , you know , but whatever the repercussions are , but there's the deeper existential kind of things that feels useless . You know , like who am I now and what is how ? How did this thing impact my identity ? Yeah , that I feel like sometimes people overlook because they're so focused on like the first . Oh , yeah , it's so easy to focus on that .
Speaker 1That stuff , yeah , you know , as opposed to like the suffering , you know , yeah , I don't , I mean , yeah , there's no . Like I don't , I don't know , man , you , that's scary , though , like it's scary for students and it's scary for clinicians in general to to you know , uh , yeah , to have somebody suffering in front of you know , I'm assuming we're not saying a client's suffering in front of you and you're like , oh , great , I'm glad you're crying now we get to repurpose this . You know , like great , you know , can I get those tears ? Can you just hold on for a second ? Let me get my vibe ? Yeah , hold on , yeah , uh , I mean that's not it , but I think , like there's a point in time where , like , you know , you know it's just at a point or the sadness or the expectations that that wasn't met , or you know whatever , when that stuff is , has lessened , you know , and also is and maybe this comes from like just being an athlete like yearned for .
Speaker 1Yeah , you know what I mean . That's the only way to live life . You know , the only way to live life is to is to the pursuit of like , yeah , sure , happiness , but also like suffering . Well , but I think that's that's the point of the video . Well , but I think that's the point of the video and I think some of the stuff that we , like , we've talked about over the course of our , you know , just like life , you know , is that , like it is the doorway to happiness or the doorway to joy ? You know , what I mean is being able to walk through .
Speaker 1Ooh , I'm about to start this therapy session . It's me and this person . I just met this person for the first time . I don't know what they're struggling with or whatever , but then when we sit there and talk , there's going to be some awkwardness and I have to suffer through that discomfort in order to get closer to this person . That's the joy I got to sit through like , oh man , this person's talking , and now you're starting to realize some stuff about them , you're starting to understand , and now you're starting to see how you very much don't really want to be around this person because of this one thing yeah , whatever it is , you got to suffer through the discomfort of the confrontation , bruh , you know . And so you can't do therapy without suffering .
Speaker 1I see my practicum students try to do therapy without suffering , without suffering . Try to do therapy without . Let's make it better , let's make it better . It's computer art , or you hear , whip out a worksheet , yeah , or a technique hey , have you tried this ? Have you tried the sand tree ? Oh , really , we try to do it . If you could pick a figurine that could fix you . Have you touched these cold stone rocks ? They get to your . Have you tried these spirit cards ? They really speak to and I'm not knocking people for sure , for sure , but when it , but when it comes in place , when , when it , when , when it's uh , I know this is deep and this is hard when it's a shield , when it's a shield for suffering , yeah , you know , like what's the man ? I wonder what that is . I wish I had , I wish I could have a student , maybe do some research on just like what is that mechanism for students ? Research that makes them say like , yeah , bro , I'm just , I don't want to get too hot and bothered , but that just makes them say like , nope , I'm not touching that , like I am a lot , lots of things . But I know that this is there , lots , and I know that this is the therapeutic way to go , but I don't want to do it .
Speaker 1But what stopped you in the beginning ? In the beginning , yeah , like when I was a student ? Yeah , nothing . You know how ? I was a wrecking ball in there , right , wrecking ball in there . I had no fear . I mean , what stopped you from ? What stopped you from being reckless ? Nothing , oh , what stopped me from ? Oh , when I hurt somebody , yeah , when I hurt somebody , that's it , yeah , that's it , yeah , yeah . When I heard somebody , yeah , vividly , and I and I and I kept trying to tell you my whole life that you'd been hurting me , you know , and you just never listened to me . Man , I said you were the wrecking ball of my life . Hold on , let me play the violins here . Hold on , okay , tell , tell , tell , tell me how . Go ahead , let me play'm going to play it out to you . No , because sometimes , when I was playing the game , you would unplug the remote control . You did , because you like to play spinners with all the lights off in the apartment , and you would tell me that we were playing together . I thought you were great and so I would leave .
Speaker 1Why does he have this affinity for sneaking up behind people and choking them out ? I was just wondering if you think about me when I'm gone . Do you think about me when I'm gone ? When you're in class and I'm at the apartment , do you think about me ? Do you think about me when it said do you want a two player or one player and you click one player , did you think of me ? That's all I want .
Speaker 1When you played Mario , did you do Mario and Luigi or did you just do Mario ? But that's it though . That's it , though , hurting somebody , hurting somebody in there , I was there , I was there and I was like , yes , yeah , nah , but for real , though , dang , I'm having flashbacks to that moment . Yeah , yeah , I remember I was like , oh , maybe I should be a little bit more relational . You know , I'm so , I'm so grateful that our master's program allowed us to have that long leash to figure that out . You know , yeah , man , because they knew it was coming . They , they knew it was coming , man , yeah , but I think that's it , bro .
Speaker 1And so some of the students we have , man , they get hurt , or they were the person who got hurt , and so they , you know , or whatever the case may be , yeah , whatever it is , you know , they use that as justification to protect the client or themselves from suffering , which is inevitable . It's inevitable the moment you wake up there it is . It's like that knee pop , that plantar fasciitis , that calf strain , that hip arthritis . We need to get a plantar fasciitis . We need to get a Dr Scholl sponsor or something . Man , we gotta get something . I tell you what your dog's be barking , man , there's .
Speaker 1Sometimes I be in the middle of a lecture and I hear my feet underneath me go . I hear them go . I know you lying them go . I know you lying to me . I know you lying to me . I know you not .
Speaker 1You sitting up in here with these Jerusalem slippers . You better get a . You better put some . You got your ice packs , you don't got your ice packs . Wow , I'm right . I'm one day , my feet just gonna go and just run off . I'm right , I'm one day my feet just going to go and just run off . I'm tired of this . Carry me back to my office . I'm tired of this , grandpa . Anyway , all right , all right . I don't think we had enough time , unless you got something to do after this . I do , but I got a couple of minutes .
Speaker 1But you want to get to the question back of the class ? Yeah , I do , but I got a couple of minutes . But you want to get to the question back of the class ? Yeah , man , this , this one , and you know ? All right , so there's one student , so you know , we get a list of questions . It could be students , it could be clinicians , whatever you got a question for us , reach out to us at the twin therapist at gmailcom . But here's one of the questions . This is from a student .
Questions from the Back of Class
Speaker 1But here's one of the questions . This is from a student .
Speaker 1What do I do when classmates say wild stuff in multicultural class , but I'm tired of being ? They put in quotations the voice . How do y'all handle that without burning out or blowing up yeah , so okay , that question could be broadened to just classes in general . I think multicultural classes is a specific type of class where man , sometimes people's true colors show out or they're just , they're ignorant . Some people with ignorance just show up . But I think that class , if you do it right , has a built-in safety net where your ignorance needs to show , because that's the only way you learn .
Speaker 1So sometimes people ask inappropriate questions , or sometimes they may cross a line , or sometimes you know this is the only class that they've ever taken like this , and this is now the time for them to say , like , hold on , it's is latin x and not latin x . I thought it was just one , I thought it was we . Hold on , yeah , you know yeah , or whatever they're confused about you know . So how do you handle that in class , where students like they ask one , wildly inappropriate questions or just like wild questions , and two , when students are just like interruptive , like they have no other awareness ? Two different problems , man , two different problems .
Speaker 1Listen , listen , listen , I'll say this and I don't have the answers , right ? Well , all right , I don't have the answers . I got some answers from my experience . You say you don't have the answers . Right , I don't have the answers . I got some answers from my experience . You said you don't have the answers , so we can go ahead and end it . Listen , bro , the precedence of us having deep conversations about what my experience of you is in class needs to happen from the beginning . Yeah , like you cannot wait unless unless , for whatever unreasonable reason , some psychopathic reason , that you have multicultural class as number one in your program . Like those conversations need to be had in the now .
Speaker 1Look everybody listen to me students out there because me and you were students and we had we sat down in class . Yeah , you know who they are . You know who they are from day one . Yeah , from day one , yeah , you sit and you do the little cookout and you do the little mixer and your family's invited and then you keep up in your family , bring your dog , it's going to be in the park . Yeah , we're going to do horseshoes and yeah , and then you sit and you have to come and you know you meet them and you go , you're going to be a problem . Yeah , I already know . Yeah , I already know . Yeah , I'm looking at you and your partner and both of y'all make me uncomfortable .
Speaker 1Yeah , first off , second off , mm-hmm , who let y'all in ? Yeah , you know who let y'all in ? Duh , there's like there's kind of two things that happens , like one . You can let the class reach a point of tension . Hold , hold on hold before you say that , before you say that , before you say that , because I think it's on the student , when they recognize that , to go how do I want to handle this ? Yeah , how do I want to handle this ? Yeah , and and . But now we go to the faculty side . So you were saying , well , I think sometimes students come from undergrad thinking that like , oh , this is undergrad , so my professor's the leader , so they're going to handle it , and I think there is room to say , yeah , this is your classroom , this is your classroom For graduate students , for graduate students , for graduate students , for graduate students , you know there are people who are 57 , 62 , 37 , 25 .
Speaker 1Married , divorced second job . Married , divorced , second whatever . Combat veterans Combat veterans , medics , chaplains yeah , bro , you know I'm talking . There's like real adults in this class , real adults , you know . Lost kids , had kids , raised kids , raising grandkids yeah , yeah , they in there , real people in there , you know . So I mean the onus .
Speaker 1Sometimes I've seen students in class say hey , man , like I can't hear a single word Dr Austin's saying because y'all two keep me yammering in the background . Yeah , like , just give him a second to answer the question and then you guys step outside and talk . But all this echoing from the back of the classroom . It's not going to work and it's usually a 38-year-old student to a 22-year-old , fresh out of undergrad student . It's just like shut up . I've been working all day . I'm reading the text , like I'm paying for this , I'm paying for this , I need this . You don't understand how my family needs this . Yeah , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1But when do you as a faculty say like I got to do something about this , bro ? That's the hard part , I mean seriously . We had this conversation the other day where it's like to what ? Because you're going to have to do it in therapy . Yeah , you know you're going to have to confront a dad , you're going to have to confront a mom or you know whatever . And so , doc , I try to I look for when . When is when ? Are their frustrations outweighing their capacity to confront this ? Mm-hmm , do you know what I mean ? Like like they're it's like they're it's about it's spoiling over , yeah , from like this kind of like tension , of like should I say something ? To like a fear then to like an ambivalence when they get this like insecure attachment . Yeah , yeah , you know what I mean .
Speaker 1And so I'm trying to gauge , you know , if I'll go a class and I'm doing the class and I'm , and I'm sitting there looking at the students and so , and so whoever it is is bringing up something or saying something , and they're looking at me , like , are you gonna do something ? Yeah , I'll give them a . Are y'all gonna do anything ? Yeah , yeah , yeah , you know just just one , just one . Like are we letting this happen ? Yes , is this is the type of class we're gonna have ? Okay , yeah , because if you notice it , then say something .
Speaker 1Yeah , you know , one meeting after class , dr austin , can you come on man ? I mean , come on dog , you gotta say something you know , like you know , I get one and I'm like , well , you know , it seems like y'all , it seems like something's bothering y'all , you know , is there anything that y'all can do ? That's interesting . Man , just like , instead of being like , yeah , right , you know , and just and like meeting with the students and being like , hey , man , like I don't know what's going on with you , because you're like , can you not see how it hits ?
Speaker 1Different your behavior . It's different when it comes from us , it does . Yeah , you know , when it comes from us , it's a disciplinary thing . And it's like , okay , dr , awesome , told me to stop doing this , so I guess I gotta stop doing . Yeah , now , look , if you get it to me , right , you give them the opportunity , they have the opportunity , the opportunity presents itself , and then they can't bridge the gap . Yeah , they can't go from I'm feeling this way to let me share how I'm experiencing you , yeah , right , because if it blows up , I can handle it in class . Right , you know , like , I have the skills to be able to handle it . Yeah , you know a thousand times .
Speaker 1But it's like , if they can't take the opportunity , that's when I know , okay , something's up like I need to take the opportunity for them or show them how to do it , or instigate the conversation or facilitate the discussion or whatever . And those conversations happen in class , in class . It just seems like there's something going on within this cohort that I think we need to spend at least 15 to 20 minutes of class time just kind of hashing out . You know , like , and I'll call it out , you know , it just seems like , if you have to , yeah , it just seems like there's something happening . You know , uh , yeah , but it's like when it's like when you have people in class that are talking while you're talking , yeah , everybody else is getting frustrated with this one table , yeah , group , and they just have no recollection . Yeah , you know , they have no understanding that , like , which is ?
Speaker 1Which is the worst type of student ? Worst type of student ? The worst type of student is the student who holds side conversations , you know , like while you're in , or like talking a little elevated while you're up there talking , and it's not even a disrespect for me , I don't care . Yeah , you know it's the single mom who just lost her husband . Yeah , you know who's here and she's trying to do this for the kids . Or it's the mom who's ?
Speaker 1You know she's in graduate school and she is passing her husband like a ship in the night , absolutely . And he gets off , you know , while she's at home they don't say bye to each other . He's with the kids , you know , and they may do a kiss and a handoff , and then she's like I gotta go to class . She's trying to get it . She makes it back home . All the kids are sleeping . She starts homework , you know , and , like her husband's sleeping , she starts homework , she makes lunches for tomorrow . You're disrespecting her sacrifice . You're disrespecting her suffering .
Speaker 1Students don't look at it like that . Students just look at it like oh , this is just a class , just having a conversation . She's confused about this . Shut up , shut up , shut up , stop , stop .
Speaker 1And the fact that I have to tell you something lets me know that maybe you shouldn't be in this program . Yeah , you're not aware of how you are in relationship to others . Come on , I don't , don't now . Look , don't . That is not fussing . That is not fussing . That is not fussing . Snap out of it , find yourself . Find yourself . Put your feet on the ground , wiggle your toes , pay attention to what's going on around you , you know , because you're ruining it . You're ruining this moment . You only get this one moment . You don't give it back . You want me to tell the class how you got doo doo on your drawer and how I have to help you ? All right , man , let's listen to Darla's . All right man ? Hey , listen , I mean , we're consistent , you know . So we , you know , I'm trying to put out the cast every Monday , you know . So , yeah , man , we're going to be back , hopefully next week if the consistency continues . Stick around for Papa Marcy send-off . We'll see y'all next week . So I want to let you know I appreciate that . Yep , bye-bye .
