What Do Students Need More: Comfort Or Grit?

Two counselors trade jokes about inbox guilt, dying Durangos, and overpowered espresso while wrestling with a deeper question: how much real life belongs in the classroom. We explore program culture, student shock, and what it takes to build identity, grit, and readiness for hard cases.

• inbox pressure, family interruptions, and guilt
• digital clutter vs responsibility to students
• humor as relief and as teaching tool
• old car frugality and tradeoffs in priorities
• guest plans and student-centered goals
• boundaries around oversharing in class
• the value of honest case examples
• program culture: grit, support, and balance
• supervision during tough cases and growth
• helping students find authentic clinical identity

We got a guest speaker coming in next week
For the following three weeks we got a guest speaker

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Transcript

Life Interruptions And Inbox Guilt

SPEAKER_00 0:15

It's like that, dog. Having a family is like that. Having a family is like you have all intentions. Well, just like you have all intentions to like snap it. You know, like this one student texted me, and I was in the middle of texting her back, and then one of the kids needed something. And so like I didn't text her for like two days. You know? Oh, but I'm just saying, I mean, it's not I feel terrible. Yeah, it's not like I'm it's not like I'm meant to ghost you. Terrible. It's just like, you know, the the list of this is this is the first time in my life where I've had unanswered text messages. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

I don't listen, and this is for the listener in particular.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

How do you sleep at night? How do you sleep with emails in your inbox? What emails in your inbox? I have friends who be sitting there talking about. I got 1,000 that is 1,000? That's light work. That's light work. Bruh, I know people that have like 23,000 unread emails. What are you doing? Just delete them. Just delete them.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Same thing with text messages.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

They have some emails from like 06 and 07. Like, bruh. I don't get it, man. I don't get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Same thing with text messages.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Like, uh, come on, man. Come on, man. They delete those, bruh. You can do, you know, you can do select. You can go down and delete them. Like, I I just don't know how people navigate. I didn't know this was such a hot, a hot topic for you, man. It's not. It's just, I just don't. I just, I man, I just I just don't understand it.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

You know, I just don't understand it, man. Or or when people, like sometimes students will say stuff like, oh, I don't, I don't check my email.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Don't check your email.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Okay, because I sent you a gift certificate for two million dollars. I sent you a Dillard's Dillard's gift certificate.

Unread Emails And Digital Clutter

SPEAKER_00 2:20

How are you gonna respond to the African Prince if you don't check your email? You didn't get Jabari's email? Okay. All right. The province needs gay strong. Your people need you. Oh, so you didn't get the inheritance email. Oh, okay. All right. Oh, you just don't like money then. Oh, okay. Yeah, they gave you a deadline.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

It was Wednesday. You didn't check? Well, it's funny is that like, dog, I I I I be like I feel so much pressure to empty my inbox at the end of the night. I'd be looking at my inbox like, okay, all right, let me think what's that. And it's just like old Navy, like you got you got old Navy bucks, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Yeah, and you know, you know what's crazy, Jesus, is that you have virtually no footprint on your campus.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Like, I don't understand why that just seems so hurtful out of nowhere, you know. Like it just it just seems so unnecessarily.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

No, it's just because you, you know, nobody no no nobody awards, nobody depends on you, man.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

But with me, my inbox, hey man, that the I don't know if the university is gonna able to function if I don't if I don't answer my email. 100, you know what's gonna happen? What's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_02 4:00

I don't even want to say it because why, bro?

SPEAKER_00 4:03

I don't even want to say it because it's gonna hurt your little feelings. I don't have feelings anymore. It's gonna hurt your little feelings, bruh. I don't have feelings. No, nah. Well, bro, say a little joke. No, I can't, man. I can't. I don't want to hurt your feelings, bruh.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Say a little jokey.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

No, it's not it's not really a joke, you know. It's it's more of like uh inevitability, you know?

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Inevitability.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Like when you when you move on to the upper room, there's gonna be some new faculty who's gonna get your email, and and the email is gonna be from the president that's gonna list all of your accomplishments and how much the university, you were a son of the university, and how much you appreciated it and all this stuff. And that new faculty is gonna be like, I just gonna I need to empty out my inbox because it's like one o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Who is that? So that's going in the delete bin.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Yeah, that's it. 60 years of service. Some some some new faculty was just like, I cannot stand having having unread emails. So I thought some professors could be like, oh man. Oh, some old dudes were talking about. Who's doing what we're what we're talking about right now? Right now, bro. Right, and he's gonna he's gonna list all he's gonna give service to the university. It started when he was 18 years old. He's been a son of the university for 50 years. His kids have gone here, his grandkids have gone here. Uh, the only thing that we haven't done, let's put a statue, and they don't even read, let's put a stat delete. Some old dude I don't know about. Like, make room. Make room, make room for me, baby.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Finally, he's gone, so I can have a job.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Now we got this this salary cap lifted to, you know, actually feed our families.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

I told you that's not how it works. Sure, that's how it works, bruh.

Legacy, Recognition, And Impermanence

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Pretty sure. Pretty sure. Oh man. Yeah, I see you got a cappuccino machine in the background, boy. You probably plugged it in and the whole building dims like whoa, whoa, whoa. Everybody in the building's like, did the lights just dim? Yeah, Dr. Austin's fixing him another espresso.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

So you know what's funny, dog, is that the students who listen to this who have come into my office when I'm making cards. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, probably got some dude that's just assigned to your circuit breaker. He's doing it again? Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Jeff, he's doing it again. So that's what I got.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Jeff's walking. That's why they pay us the big bucks to just monitor Dr. Austin's wattage. Oh, man. That's funny, man. Uh man. All right. Well, uh back again, y'all. Back again. Another another another level of consistency. Um yeah, we tried to do this on Monday, uh, and we had a guest speaker coming in, and um, you know, we had to reschedule with the guest speaker, so we're gonna reschedule for sometime in November. Uh we met with him shortly, and he seemed pretty dope. So it's I've man, these like I'm excited. Yeah, these random people reach out to us on uh via email, and it's literally a shot in the dark. So uh And there are counselors. Yeah, counselor, social workers, you know, like people who like created businesses and stuff like that. What we really want to do is, man, you know, this podcast is all about us talking to our students, you know. So if you're one of our students out there, we're trying to bring on people to the cast that can offer you some semblance of an education that you're not getting from either of us, you know. So um more you though. Well, uh if it's you we're setting the bar pretty low. So we're just gonna have some There's no bar with it. We're just gonna bar. We're just gonna have some random person come in and maybe do some juggling over the air. You won't even be able to see it. We'll just be quiet. Have some fourth grader do some magic tricks on the show. Now now listen, now listen, Jesus. Can this, and I want to ask you, just from your perspective, you know. No, because I feel like this is one of those things where you're gonna ask a question that a student asks, and just for the students out there, you cannot use this as a direct hour. Okay? Okay. I thought no, yeah. So you can't use this as a direct hour.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

No, but what about indirect?

SPEAKER_00 9:08

What about indirecting? Yeah, you can use this as indirect. I think all we gotta say is the word counseling. What we're gonna do is we're gonna we're gonna make these episodes 59 minutes. So you can't use it for the full hour. So you're all your all of your all of your little like end of end of semester thing is gonna have a 0.2376832. Almost got my eyes on out of that. One minute short. Those students are frustrating. I I I rip their little like time sheet things. Give me that. I mean, you if you don't put the whole hour, if you why you why are you coming at me with a point two seven thirty-seven forty six? Well, if you don't put let's put the hour, man. Anyway, man. Anyway, what did you want to talk to me about today? All right, man. So entertainment. So well, I mean, how y'all doing, man? What what y'all got going on over there? Ha ha the kids, y'all. We're doing good, man. Yeah, yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, we're doing good, man. Just a little sickness in the house. Sickness going around, bro. Um Charlotte was sick, but I I don't know. It's always funny, man, because he it feels like he also has allergies. Yeah. You know, because he's like completely fine. Like me, yeah. Like I'm completely fine. It's just my nose is stuck. Yeah. You know, so uh, but yeah, bro, no, that's good, man. Racing is good. We're coming up on the last week. I think my kids may win that first place trophy. Yeah, I think my kids may win that trophy. Do they know what's at stake if they don't? Nah, they don't. Just keep keep keep keep dangling, uh keep keep dangling working for the for the family business. I like my punish I like my punishments to be a surprise. Oh, yeah. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like my kids to feel the in disproportionate. I like them to feel the gravity of of expectation. Yeah. That's that's what's up, man. That's what's up. Um hey man, speaking of family. Um do you uh wait, hold on, let me check in with you, bro. You you okay? You you doing good? Okay, cool. You alright? Actually. Because you kids threw up. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, we just just the just the illnesses. But on like a lighter note, I gotta I gotta get some oil in the Dodge, man. I hadn't changed the the oil in for for those who know me. I think the oil is the last of your problems. I uh my so I drive a 2006 Dodge Durango, okay, and it's been through everything with me. Uh it has 253,000 miles on it. Uh it's not bad. Not bad. So it's just in the baby stage of its evolution, you know? Uh wait, wait, if you listen to it, if you listen real quietly, you can hear the the the belt starting to squeak already. No, you don't know it, it's it's not just squeaking, man.

Espresso Jokes And Campus Vibes

SPEAKER_00 12:20

It's uh you just hear a little like Yeah, that's what it yeah. It makes so much random noise to where like the kids start saying, the kids think that the Dodge is talking. So it makes so much random noises. So I'll be driving and it'll make like a and like Robert go like, what did what does the Dodge say? What is the Dodge saying? And I always have to be like, it's it's it says I'm tired, I need to get off the road.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Remember that time where your seat belt uh Oh, it's still going off, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

It's still yeah, there's some sensor in the seat belt that doesn't sense anymore, so it doesn't sense that I have the seat belt clicked in, you know, and so I'll just be like driving on the road, and sometimes it's quiet, and then you know, 30 minutes into the drive, you hear like a ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Like, bro, what is going on? Yeah, man. It's so hard to have a conversation with you. Man, the seals on the doors don't work, so when it rains, there's just water inside the car. Yeah, bruh. Get a new car, man. I don't want to, man. Seriously. I really don't want to. Like, I don't, I don't, the the people who pay, I see I see my students, man. I see my students driving these nice cars, and I'm like, that's like an $800 car note. I just I just cannot see myself spending that much money on a I can't see myself spending $250 on a car note. Like, I just don't nah man. With my Dodge, I can I can ride through the Cadiana Mall. I can just go through the front door and it'll come out. My students don't my students don't know what that Cadiana mall is. Okay. Um I don't think some of my students know what a mall is. Oh my God. A mall is a place where we used to go to get numbers. I I mean, uh where we used to go to shop. Where we used to go to shop and find things. If you are in a mall uh and you don't know what a mall is, avoid any store that says Spencer's on the front. Just don't go in it. It's the it's where your childhood goes to die. Don't go in it, man. Anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway. So you were gonna say something before? I was I was just I was just gonna say, um, you need some money, bro? Yeah. Yeah, I need some money. Come on, man. Come on, man. How much money do you need? I like just to float me real quick? Yeah. And look, Uncle Drew can get you a car, bro. What um what what kind of car are you? No, I don't want the cars. No, because y'all got them Baptist Mafia cars. Y'all got them them unmarked vehicles.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

What do you mean, bruh?

SPEAKER_00 15:03

That y'all got from somebody who fell down the the the the elevator shaft in uh in uh it work, it worked, huh? What do you mean, bruh, the seatbounce work? Nah, man. I don't want I don't want some you

Guest Plans And Student-Focused Vision

SPEAKER_00 15:20

need to test those airbags. Some some random kid who failed New Testament. I don't want I don't want their I don't want some come on man come on man I mean come on man talk talk to uh whatch you call it uh uh one of the one of the professors who's like retiring. I don't want some type of like old regal or something, some type of old Buick. Those regals smooth anyway man speaking of family, hey bro, do you do you ever have a feeling of oversharing in class? Like I overshare? Yeah, like like you say too much about yourself or the family or something and and I fear that it'll make students see you in a different light. No, I don't feel that. I what I do what I do when I am like aware of is how interested the students are in like just like you know the family and like the history of the family and like kind of like how our family structured, you know, and and like the ins and outs of like you know, like uh you know, just like all of the rules our family has and like you know, just like I I think I think stu I think students are like super interested in that. And so like I I there is a part of me that's like, mmm, do I even want to share this, you know, because you know, but they are it comes from a genuine place, you know, for students. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's okay, so so you know, I'm teaching the couples class, right? And there's a lot of examples, you know, that we have to use in the couples class, you know. I mainly just talk about how you and Megan's uh marriage is so dysfunctional. So y'all like a case study. Okay, yeah. You know what I mean? Like just I mean, just like ten years of dysfunction that we have we're yeah, it's a lot. A decade, I call it uh decade of dysfunction. Yeah, just the just last night she's dysfunctional justice. Just last night she said, you know, I don't have to be here. And I was like, Well, go then. Yeah, you know, so you see, and that's how it starts, you know. And so, nah, man, I uh but no, I was I was I shared something. I forgot what I shared, man. I think I was talking about how my mom and papa used to fight in the street. Oh, in Truman? In Truman? Yeah, and and one of the I forget, man, who's one of the students like, oh, you're like us. And I remember thinking, have I not talked about some of this stuff? Like in a way that would make no you know what I mean? Like to be honest, dog, that is that that is uh part of the self that uh because man, I I'm different from my faculty. And you're different from your faculty too, but like you know, we we grew up that different from some of our Nah, but I mean, you know, just to you know, just like how we grew up, you know, like eating government cheese and like you know, uh, you know, in that in the royal apartments, you know, like the little house that mom and daddy used to live in in Appaloosis, the little shack, you know, like yeah, we grew up a little different from some of our faculty, you know. So like and also we grew up differently than some of our students, you know. For sure, for sure. So that is like uh I think people see us as like Dr. Austin, you know, and and they don't realize hear that. I sometimes hear that, you know, like um and not and not that I want not that I want to use class as a time to like air out grievances. You know what I mean? Like family grievances? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not family grievances, like, you know, not like family grievances,

Sick Kids, Old Cars, And Money Talk

SPEAKER_00 19:20

but like to like use it as a time to process stuff, you know? Because like there isn't anything to process. These are things like for example, last night I told the store of Uncle EJ. Oh, with the grease? I mean with the with the grits, yeah, with the grits, with the grits, yeah. You know, and and and to me, it was just like these things happen, you know, in our family. I I don't even think about it that much. You know what I mean? But I just shared it in class as an example of like uh how a situational uh conflict can turn into a uh like kind of interpartner terrorism, you know, like just kind of power and control and just like the how to assess for both of those, you know. And I was like, oh yeah, this reminds me of the story, you know, and I said it, and bruh, the students looked at me like, yeah. What? What? You know what, you know, you know where I feel that in replication, when I talk about clients, like when I talk about, because you know, man, our when we were in our master's program, bruh, like our our master's program did not uh screen for clients, you know. So like our our our practicum and internship experience was like intent like bonkers type. You can you can go in session and talk about test anxiety, or you can have a pistol pulled out, you know. It just like that's just what it looked like in our community clinic, you know. It was great. It was the best. I would recommend it. It was the best, man. But sometimes I tell students like, oh yeah, you know, there's so many stories that I forget about with regard to clients, you know. And then I tell students like, oh yeah, and then that one time this, you know, this uh I saw a client, you know, that was that fits very perfectly for what we're talking about now in class. But like this, this this happened, and that, that, that happened, and this is kind of the scenario. I'm like, all right, so does everybody have any questions? And I look at the class and the class is like, what? You know, like they let you see somebody like that? Yeah, like you're just a baby. You know, it's like, yeah, they yeah, we yeah, we didn't, yeah, you know, I was yeah, I was I was like, I was like in the same stage of my career as you guys are, you know, like that's what I saw. Sometimes I see that shock, you know, reflected, you know. Um but do you ever worry about like the position you you are or the the f the framing of your identity, I guess, you know, for your students. Does does that make sense? Yeah, I mean like do you want them to see you a certain type of way? Or no, I no are you me me me neither, me neither. I mean, other than like other than like my genuine self, I just think sometimes that like uh you know students man, my I what I notice is that my students, especially like in this new cohort, it's it's very there's some common themes of like how everybody was raised. You know? Um you know, just like from a religious perspective, from a you know, the types of schools they went to, from the summer camps they went to, from social economic standards, like it's very it's very similar to each other, you know. Um you have your outliers, but for the most part, you know, um, and so you know, I I think I I don't know, man, I think sometimes students come into the field thinking that you know they're gonna you know they're gonna come in to help people, you know, and they're you know, um and I and I think you there's this like very seedy side of the human ex experience that can sometimes be like very dark or very edgy or very you know um different from your own life, you know. So when I'm in class, I I it's not like I'm like sharing for a shock factor. Seriously, sometimes I'm just like this is a thing that happened with the client, you know, and I and I see students' faces, they are like genuinely shocked, you know, and my my thoughts are like, oh, did I share too much of myself or share too much about what the field's gonna look like? Because the look on students' faces are like, oh so I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to bear witness to this, you know, and then and so the reaction that I have is like, yeah, what did you think this field was was about? Like what'd you think you were getting into? You know? So I f I feel that they give and take when I share parts of myself too. Yeah, like like you're doing it in the hopes that you share will prepare them to hear somebody else's story. Kinda. I mean not not really. I I'm sharing because it's like uh because it's relevant to the lecture, you know? Well, yeah, but that's a byproduct of it. Yeah, and so when I when I sh when there's like, oh yeah, there's this is a part of the lecture. There's a neat little story that goes along with that because I think it it relates to what we're talking about. Let me share that story and then like, all right, anybody got any questions? And when I have that anybody got any questions, I don't get the yeah, I have a question face. I get the shocked, like, like I I get the I'm they are processing what it would be like for them to, you know, I'm pro they're processing what it would be like for them to experience a human condition like that, you know?

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Yeah, but do you do you feel like do you feel like that kind of like student or culture it's like a snake eating its own tail a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

What do you mean? Like, like for example, right? Like, I think our program has a reputation of being tough, you know? Being being real, being genuine, being hard. Um, our faculty are diverse, we have different backgrounds, we speak different languages, you know, and and the training is intense and it's community-based, and like you just you're gonna it it's almost our our program is a little seedy.

Oversharing, Family Stories, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Okay. You know what I mean? It's not like a clean, you know, like professional counseling, you know. It's more for like, look, if you want to get your hands dirty, yeah, you know, in in the community, you know, like you're we're not just preparing you to work with high high uh socioeconomic status, um sons and daughters of politicians, judges, you know, like no, we you know, you we want you to run the full game. To run a full game, yeah. You know, and that and that and and we carry ourselves that way. And when we teach, we're really vulnerable. But then that I think it's like passed down from cohort to cohort, alumni, alumni pass it down to what could be future students, you know, because a good like maybe like 30% of an incoming cohort is either legacy or like like uh the the kid or niece or nephew or cousin of some of an alumni? Oh yeah, or yeah, their alumni suggested. Yeah, we get we get that a lot in our program too, where it's like I know, but but do you feel like the culture of your program breeds students like like a certain type of student? Yeah, because I know we get a certain type, like we get the students I want to be back to back with in an alley. Yeah. That's the kind of students we get. Nah, you know, and every every now and then you'll get a student who's who's like, you know, different and maybe comes from a more conservative background, and you know, they're kind and and you know, and you will never see them in an alley. Yeah, right. You know, right. You know what I mean? Yeah, but it feels like it feels like that kind of mixture of the thing. I think that's a difference though. I think I think that's that's where I mean seriously, man, our our students are great at uh, you know, in our program, and our program's culture is really good, and I would say we have the best program here in uh probably in the south, you know. Uh seriously. Uh I'm sorry, did you say the south? The whole south. Yeah. Yeah, the whole south. Why? What did you mean technically Texas is his own country, so yeah, you can um I'll I'll let you have it. No, I'm talking about uh R1 institutions that put out like real research. That's that's what I that's what I meant. I didn't mean like yeah, I'm yeah, I'm sorry. I maybe that was maybe that was lost in translation.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Uh yeah, ball flash and R1 like it's some type of some like some some type of status. Like some type of flag.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

R1.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

R1. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Ball R1? That's your that's that's your that's your shield.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Yes, yeah. Yeah, it comes, yeah, when you get that status, it's kind of like an Avenger shield. Every every faculty gets it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

No, I know. What is it? What is it? No, what does it have on it? What is it? R1 in old English screen.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Yeah, it has an R. Yeah, an R there, and then the one what is it sh what does it shield you from? Oh, this the scrutiny of any RB. Yeah. Yeah, I RB scrutiny. It's yeah, it's like a RB screw.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Some type of battle type.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Oh, yeah, no, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

That that and an inability to see any like You know, uh misplaced funds or any any debt, you know, like yeah, we don't see misappropriation of funds. We don't see any of that stuff. So we, you know, that's what comes along with the shield. Um, no, man. But uh, I that is like a huge uh disconnect for me. Uh again, like our students are dope. The program culture is like one of the best, it's great, man. But yeah, I don't, I'm not I I was we were raised that like, you know, in a program that was really tough, you know? Where like you you did feel like you were fighting in an alley just to survive, you know? And I and I I don't think I would not in a bad way. Well, kind of sometimes in a bad way. Well you had support. You had a little support. Uh-oh. You had a support. I didn't support anything. You had all the support you needed. You just always felt like you needed more. Always felt like you needed more until you realized you didn't. Until you realize you didn't. Yeah.

unknown 31:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

And and that's and and that and in that space, I but it's I would say that's that's the difference uh between like my students, the students in our program, and how I was raised is that like the students go kind of come through the program with support, you know, so much support. Maybe more than they so much support that they uh you know, just assume that they're gonna graduate. You know? Well, it o okay, so so that yeah, that's but and also I think I I'm not saying that's not good. I'm not saying it's not healthy. I I think that's some healthiness to that, you know, because like it allows you the freedom to be like, I'm not fighting for my life, so now I can learn what's going on. Exactly, you know. But I think that's where the whole analogy of like fighting with the student in an alley, you know, it's like I don't my students, I wouldn't nah, man. Like uh Well, well, it's just to me, it's it's you there's some goodness in that and also you I I just wonder if you graduate without really knowing how capable and strong you are. I don't think I mean I think it's rare unless you go through like I had one student, man, I had I have a su a clinical supervisee who who uh you know if a clin if a clinical supervisee calls you on like a Thursday evening, something's up, you know? And I'm not gonna go into the full detail, but she called me obviously because of confidentiality and HIPAA just to remind you. Well she she called me and she was just like, hey, I'm going to help out a student because you know the supervisor's not on site. It was at three at their internship site, you know. And uh it was with uh just a really tough case,

Shock In The Classroom And Case Realities

SPEAKER_00 33:00

you know. And so I was like, all right, just give me a call, whatever. And I was pretty much on call with them throughout the evening, you know, until like nine o'clock or something like that, you know. I mean, I'm giving kids baths and I'm answering the phone, you know. And so that one student, that one internship student who went through that process, yeah, I think that that created this growth experience, yeah, you know, where she is probably like, I could probably handle a fair bit more than I thought I could because of that experience, you know? Yeah, um, which could happen in any program, no matter how like survivalistic it is, you know. Um but yeah, I think that like those types of experiences creates that mode of, oh, I think I'm strong enough to hand, but if you don't have that, you know, like if you're in a clinic where they screen clients and you, you know, you see clients that are fairly healthy anyway, you know, and they just kind of come because they kind of want to chat a little bit, you know. Um, yeah, I think I'm not saying that's unhealthy or that's bad. I just think that what I'm hearing from students is that when they graduate, there is this like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to handle what's out there. You know? Uh and and there is a fair bit, there is a fair amount that's like, yeah, yeah. Um me neither. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I I'm not saying that you won't be able to handle it, but yeah, there is a part of me that's like, yeah, you should kind of be a little, you know, like leery of what you of what you can and can't handle, you know. Like you're gonna need really good supervision, you know. Um so yeah, man, there is a yeah, like when I'm with students. And oh, go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say, just to tie it into like the you know, the question of like do you feel like you overshare in class? You know, like there's a part of me that wonders, like to what extent do I contribute to the culture that we have on campus, you know? Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, well, I think you're I mean, and you tell me if I'm wrong, but it feels like you're trying to change the culture a little bit. No, I don't think I'm trying to change uh the culture is fine. Ruin. No, man. I the the bruh, the culture's been our program has been running for years, and it's like it has a mean I mean I'm adding to the culture, you know. But I do think I do think that, you know, and my me and my faculty, we've talked about this of like we come from like distinctively different master's programs, you know, and so because of that, I I do see things a little differently, you know?

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Um, not in a bad way, it's and I'm not over here like trying to put students on a chopping block, you know, but uh I there is a there is a part of me that is like, you know, man, we come from we came from like a competitive background as athletes, and then a competitive master's program where like not everybody made it out, you know? And like and I appreciated that sense of danger and fear and tension.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Yeah, and you know, and it wasn't competitive. I mean, I feel like we talk about our program all the time, but it wasn't competitive against each other, it was competitive against yourself.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah, or against yourself. You were constantly trying to get better each semester. I mean, to the point to where like you were connected to your peers, but like you were rooted for this. Everybody was like everybody was like, how can I make you better? How can I, you know, how can I what feedback can I give you that's gonna make you better? Like how can we, you know, and we would push each other too. Can you push each other and you know we'd have to But but but I just you know we you know we I feel like we both teach very similarly, you know, like in the sense that you try to do what I do, you know? Um and uh yeah man, uh I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't say that I try to do what you do, it's just trying is too much. You're right. You make an effort. You what you think? I mean it's an exact I have to provide like I have to let my students know this is this is the bottom of the barrel. This is what it looks like. This is like we're both socially constructed, you know, we're both you know, all of the stuff, right? Um but in doing so the students get to know stuff about us, yeah, you know, that makes and and my hope is that it makes them go, oh, like I I could be yeah, I could be a therapist. Yeah, or like I don't think this is for me. Yeah, but I think mostly people go like, oh my fa my family has these issues too. Like and you, you know what I mean? Like or I think I think some students go, okay, like I can I can be a therapist, I just I just don't fit like his style. You know, like I like that's not that like that style is different from the way I approach things. And I hope that like I'm I communicate with students that like, yeah, you can don't do exactly what I do, like synthesize what I'm saying through like your own lens and your own style, you know? Yeah, but like for for for example, bro, I was in supervision and the student was working with a client, you know, the student worked with a client from from they had some jail stuff, right? Student had no experience with jail, you know, just like no no experience. I was like, hey man, you should watch Alisa Deke.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yeah, you should watch the comic Alisa Deke, you know, watch his special, he talks about it a lot, you know. And in my head, I love that dude, Doc. He's funny as I'll get out. And so I'm dying laughing, you know. Student

Program Culture: Grit, Support, And Identity

SPEAKER_01 39:00

came back, I was like, Did you watch it? She's like, Yeah, I didn't really like it. I was like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 39:04

This is not my kind of humor. And it's like, what? What's your kind of what's your type of humor? No, but it's just like that kind of well, okay, where now you can see yourself, you know, juxtaposed to me. You know, and like, you know. But anyway, you you gotta go, man. You said you were gonna leave early. Yeah, I know, bruh. Yeah, I just texted my student. And uh, yeah, I don't know, man. Ah, bruh. Uh next time, bruh, we we gotta I gotta talk about uh I I really want to talk about man, just this kind of along the same line of uh spit it out, man. Let it go, Jeez. It's okay. Well, I just breathe. I'm trying to I'm trying to not I don't want to blow up a student's spot, you know, but I do want to Man Well, you you don't care about the shots you don't Right man, I let it all hang out, man. Uh no, I just you know I really want to talk about that whole like identity thing of like, you know, and then like you know in supervision, you know, and and having stu helping students like find their identity, you know, like that's a it's a huge thing, bro. It's a huge thing, man. Abandon all hope. Yeah, yeah. Especially if you're in in my program. Yeah, just you know abandon all hope. Anyway. Bye, bro. All right, thanks for listening, man. We uh we appreciate it, man. We'll see y'all next week. We got a uh guest speaker coming in. Guest speaker coming in next week. I think for the next for the next three weeks. Yeah, for the following three weeks we got a guest speaker, yeah. Yeah, we're hearing a new voice on the cast, man. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully they're good. Hopefully. Yeah, hopefully. No promises. Anyway. All right, see y'all later.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

So I wanted to let you know. I appreciate that.