How Attachment Theory Helped Save A Marriage

We talk with Bryan Power about how a near-collapse became the turning point for a stronger marriage. He shares the six pillars of Integrated Attachment Theory and real steps to move from anxious or avoidant patterns to secure connection.

• origin story and the emotional restraining order
• discovery of anxious and dismissive avoidant dynamics
• subconscious patterns driving conflict and rupture
• six pillars: core wounds, needs, emotions, boundaries, communication, behaviors
• regulating before hard talks and structured listening
• how to spot core wounds beneath small fights
• setting balanced boundaries that evolve with life
• dating and vetting through compromise and respect
• rebuilding a new relationship rather than fixing the old one
• resources to start learning attachment theory today

If you are interested in hearing more from Bryan, check out his website https://www.myrelationshipfail.com/

Bryan also mentioned: Go watch the Mel Robbins episode with Thais Gibson to learn more about integrated attachment theory. 

If you have any questions about any counseling related topics or would like the twins to share their thoughts about a particular counseling case  - reach out with the info below: 

https://thetwintherapists.com/

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Contact: thetwintherapists@gmail.com

Transcript

Meet Brian Power

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey gang. Welcome to the cast. So we got a special guest for y'all today, right? We got a guy by the name of Brian Power. Right? This is this is a really good interview, man. We spent about an hour with him. We talked about uh some attachment theory stuff. We talked about his relationship with his partner, the the good, the bad, and the ugly. Um and we asked him some questions that we thought that uh you the listener would really appreciate knowing. Right? So uh Brian Power and his wife uh would go from having a pretty good relationship to a complete relationship failure. Uh that failure culminated with a restraining order um that his wife put against him for his emotional safety, uh or for her emotional safety. Um during their time apart, Brian and his wife would work on themselves, um, and that work ultimately allowed them to put their relationship back together. Um now Brian shares his super powerful story um with people like us and people like you, um, and teaches others how to use integrated attachment theory program. Um and he'll give you some information about how to get into integrated attachment theory program, um, kind of like where to go on YouTube, uh, some of some stuff that he offers as well. Um, because I think he has a platform that um that offers some education. Um so uh he uh teaches others how to use the integrated attachment theory program uh that helps save his marriage um and provides the tools necessary to continue having the healthy, happy um uh relationship that

From Crisis To Restraining Order

SPEAKER_00 1:45

they have today. You know. So um without further ado, uh this is Brian Power. And also I should mention that uh Brian had some cutouts uh doing the uh during the interview. Uh so you may hear him like pause a bit. I think it was some internet stuff. Uh not too bad. And also there was an echo. I could we can't, you know, hey man, you know, listen, we got $25 mics from Amazon and some headphones. So, you know, sue us. Um but it's a pretty good interview. Um, we had a lot of fun, and this isn't this is gonna be first of uh of probably a couple times we talked to Brian because a lot of the stuff that he said uh fell right in line with a lot of the questions that some of our students have in class. So uh enjoy the interview. So typically, Brian would do these in one take, you know. So we we never really edit some of this stuff, so it's just like an ongoing conversation. Yeah, man. You know, but if you say anything that'll get uh us fired, then we'll definitely just in the call and burn all the never.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

I'll be on my best behavior, man.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

You'll never hear from us again. Yeah, you'll never this interview would never see the light again.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Most of mine don't, so you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Oh my god. All right, man. All right, so essentially, man, this is a conversation because this this podcast is genuinely, genuinely made for our students, you know. So it's like talking to some of our students, you know, it's like an extra hour that they get to hear us talk about some stuff that we don't get that opportunity to or time to in class, you know. So how about we start with just letting the students know who you are, what you think is really important for them to know about who you are and what you do kind of like in the field.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Yeah, yeah. No, it's excited to be here and share, share my story with uh you guys and your students here. Hopefully we can uh hopefully we can help some students learn a little bit about how to have better relationships because it's something that I did not learn uh till later in life, and I learned it the hard way in a bad way. And so uh, you know, I'm hoping uh you know help some of you guys avoid that today. But yeah, my name is Brian Power, and uh yeah, I'm an integrated attachment theory coach. Um and integrated attachment theory is based off attachment theory, um, which has been around really since the 70s, and it's really how we attach in relationships. And uh I love Thais Gibson. Uh she's the one that teaches the integrated attachment theory program, which actually begins to not just help us understand the way we attach in relationships, but also begin to heal uh and move us towards the insecure attachment styles to the secure attachment styles. And that's what I love about uh the work that I do is it really helps us understand you know how to have good relationships. And I and like I said, I my my relationships have been a disaster. And uh, you know, last year my wife and I, it got so bad. Last year, my wife and I, you know, our childhood trauma and some of the stuff that played out in our subconscious, you know, uh styles, if you will, um, literally led us to a restraining order against me. Uh, it was all for emotional. It was never, it was never a physical threat at all. It was just an emotional clash. It got so emotional and so uh out of control, emotionally uh, you know, distraught, if you will. She she actually, you know, sought a restraining order against me. And at that point, I thought, man, this is just this is bizarre. This is crazy, you know? And it was awful. It was one of the most awful experiences of my life. But true, it would true, it would truly prove to be one of the greatest things in my life because that experience you know helped us both to really learn about ourselves, to open our eyes to a lot of the situations and things that we had been dealing with for so long. And

Discovering Attachment Styles

SPEAKER_02 5:30

um, and we're able to start taking ownership and start beginning the healing that would ultimately lead us uh back together. And ultimately, today we have a an incredible relationship that's uh just beyond anything I've ever dreamed of.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

So man, I there's a couple things that you mentioned that I really want to tackle. So the the integrated attachment theory, uh attachment styles with a good relationship. And what the hell happened between you and and your partner? Like when did you guys realize? When was the moment when you were like, oh, this is something's up here?

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Yeah, I mean, we we had minor problems, I think, you know, um throughout our relationship, but you know, the typical normal little fights, nothing crazy, you know. Um, and I would say when my son was born in 2019 and I moved to Massachusetts officially, so the first couple years I was spending half my time in Florida, half my time here in Massachusetts. Um, we had a little distance, a little space between us. Um, but once my son was born and I moved officially into Massachusetts, and uh it just seemed like our parenting styles were different. That started to cause a lot more you know conflict and stuff. Um, and over the next couple of years, also with the COVID thing happened, so 2019, my son was born, COVID hit right after. It was just like all that whirlwind craziness. Um and but there was never any major issues. There wasn't any like infidelity, there wasn't any, we weren't arguing, throwing plates at each other. Um, you know, there was no financial issues or you know, money. We both made some money. We were okay there. Um, it just little fights. But early in February of 2024, we would have uh another one of our fights that ultimately she would say, Hey, you know what? I think you need to see a therapist, you know, and and maybe get some help. And I said, I said, fair enough. You know what? Uh, I'm the willing to do that. I want to learn and see if we can figure this out. But I also challenge you to see a therapist because as we do, right? In my mind, she was the one with all the issues. And in her mind, I was the one with all the issues, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:20

It's not funny. Isn't that funny how that how that's always the case?

SPEAKER_02 7:24

That's always the case. So that's the first thing I learned is we have to take ownership of how we're showing up and and what we're doing to cause you know the relationship to kind of struggle and fail. And and what I found is it's usually both parties. It's not like it's all one person is perfect, the other one is is is uh is the mess. It's usually both of us having some issues there that kind of keep us from being able to really connect and enjoy ourselves and have a really great relationship. So the first thing we gotta do is look at ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Was there a so here here's the question I have, right? When you're in it, because I'm working with a lot of couples, and sometimes they can't see what's happening, right? And we do, like as you know, workers and healers, we can step back and see the the you know, the feedback loops. We can see this happens, then this happens, then I respond this way, and she responds this way. You know, but I know for me personally in my relationship, and I mean I would imagine for you, you can't see it. And it's not, especially if it's not anything big like fighting or physical, you know, I s I say it's like death by a thousand paper cuts.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

I love that phrase.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

And you just kind of bleed each other out, and you don't really realize you're hurt until you're like woozy, you know, from blood loss, you know, and then that tends to be the time where you're like, we need to get some help. But at that point, the hurt is so I don't know, like uh, you know, reactive. It's hard to touch it. You don't want to put your finger on it. Is that something you've seen in your experience? And then when you when you're working to heal attachments and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

I always say nobody nobody falls in love with the idea that we're gonna hate each other a couple years from now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Like, you know, yeah, nobody's like, Sami, you have to be a little bit more than a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Yes, I mean, what happens is when we come up, we we meet somebody special, we seem to have this really great connection, and then you know, life begins to happen, and little by little these things in life begin to to you know come upon us, and we have these little disagreements and different ways that you know I perceive things differently from my wife, right? And so when I view certain elements, I'm gonna view it from my perspective, and and in my world, that's the way it is. That's correct. And in her world, she sees it a different perspective because of her own childhood, because of her own, you know, ways that she was grown, and some of the wounds that she occurred, you know, throughout our childhood. And so we're both seeing this through kind of like clouded lenses, if you will, um, because of the childhood wounds that we occur that that that we've you know um taken on in our lives, if you will. Unfortunately, you're right, it's so hard just for us to see that until sometimes it's too late. And it and it does hit that critical stage, which is why I call my my my coaching practice make your relationship fail, right? Because unfortunately, it does take failure sometimes to get us to wake up and go, wait a second, I didn't realize this was that bad, right? It's at that critical stage now. I've got to make some real changes here. So if you are at that critical stage, I want you to know there is hope first and foremost, and we can turn this thing around. Anything can happen and turn relationships around, your life around, anything like that. I promise you. But the first thing is we do have to start to recognize where are we showing up in a bad way? And and a lot of that does come back to

The Spiral: Triggers And Patterns

SPEAKER_02 10:30

working with a therapist like yourself, guys who really can kind of look at and take their opinion and listen to them a little bit. But you become really in tune with like, okay, what are my patterns? What do I seem to continue to do over and over again? What are the emotions that I'm going through? When I feel emotions, what what are the emotions? You know, what is what am I really telling myself subconsciously that's causing me to feel this heightened emotion? Um, and if I can start getting in tune with a lot of this stuff, I can start to reaware of like, wait a second, I've got some really unhealthy subconscious thinking going on here that's causing me to act this way. Because truly most of this is subconscious, right? That's the hard part, is 95 to 97% of our decisions are being made by the subconscious. And that the conscious cannot necessarily overpower or outwill the subconscious. So even though my brain's my conscious brain says one thing, my subconscious is actually behaving in a different way that I don't even realize sometimes I'm doing. Um, and that's really where a lot of these problems come in because you know it is very hard to kind of begin to tune into that, tap into it, and begin to now heal that. So that, you know, things like when I say childhood wounds, I mean like fear of abandonment, fear of, you know, being alone, being unsafe, you know, lack of trust issues, um, all these types of things that can really, you know, I'm not good enough. Uh you know, all that type of stuff. Those are the wounds that we're subconsciously, you know, internalizing and now are acting out in ways in relationships that are not really healthy. But again, until we fail enough and we have enough heartaches, enough breakups, enough bad situations sometimes, maybe it's then we we kindly finally wake up and go, wait a second, maybe it's me, maybe it's not the other person all the time that has the issue. So that's what we have to get to, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yeah, I would say that that's the probably the hardest part uh that I'm seeing in just couples counseling, but just counseling in general. It's the individual's ability to kind of step back from their childhood experiences or even their experiences in the present moment and say like and re-examin or examine, you know, what their experience is. Is it me? Is it the person that is in my past? Is it you know something that I'm aware of or unaware of, you know, because they're so flooded about what's happening in the present that sometimes it puts them in that state of defensiveness, you know, or or whatever it is, because it's anger, you know, frustration, you know, whatever it is for them, you know. And that's like the mode that they relate to the other person in, you know, like I'm just gonna relate to this person out of anger or out of sight, you know. Um and and it's hard for them to kind of take that step back, you know. So for you and you know, you can this is a conversation, so you can share at your comfort level, you know. But what was it like for you to take that step back and like re-examine what you were bringing into the relationship? What was that process like for you?

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Yeah, so when things really started to go south between my wife and I, um, it was it became a train wreck. And I started looking at her as if she was, you know, having a midlife crisis type of thing. I didn't understand what why she was so emotionally breaking down, you know. But the more she emotionally broke down, that began to trigger my abandonment wounds. And I have a big abandonment wound from my my childhood. My father, you know, my my my mom and dad divorced when I was born basically, right? My father battled addiction. Um, and so you know, my mom was, you know, you know, 21 years old with two boys and and an ad an addict really for an ex-husband, if you will. And uh that was the world I was brought into. And then you know, we also we moved around a lot as kids too. So so my first 10 years of my life were you know, was a lot of chaos, a lot of craziness, a lot of, you know, yeah, you got it. All the young kids hanging out, partying, having fun, laughing, all that stuff. But to little kids, you know, it's kind of like, what is this craziness here going on? So that was the that was my original introduction into the world. And so a lot of my, you know, a lot of my thoughts and behaviors, a lot of my subconscious patterns were formed in those early years. A lot of us do form that, you know, in our early years. The first seven years of a child's life are vital. Now we can develop wounds throughout our lives, we can certainly develop them later on, but the first seven to eight years are really hypercritical to having some stability and the ability to kind of you know, you know, develop some really good skills if you want, if you, if you, you know, early on, if you will, right? So um, but yeah, it became painfully obvious for my wife and I because no matter what she, you know, what I said or did, she would start to get, she would get really triggered. And I didn't, I didn't understand it. She would get so triggered, and then I would be like trying to fix this whole thing. So I became, the more it started to break apart, the more I tried to fix it and hold on to it because here I was trying to save my family. And you know, again, the subconscious fears a little bit of having to have this work out, having to have my family together, having to, you know, be safe. I felt so unsafe at that point and everything, right? So I was just doing everything I could to bring it together. And the more I did that, the more she needed some space to figure some things out, to really kind of process things a lot. Um, she didn't really know what was going on in her own world a little bit. She was kind of questioning a lot of things and trying to understand herself. But the more she needed space, the more I needed to connect and keep that together. And that's what drove a real wedge between us because here I am fighting for time and connection, making this work. And she's, you know, here she is fighting, saying, I just need to breathe. Can you give me like uh you know some time? I don't need I need to figure myself out. And that was really hard. And so that's what ultimately the emotional clash came. And I remember at one point I was literally talking to an ex-girlfriend of mine who I'm good friends with. She's a terminal cancer survivor, and um, but we were good friends, and I was explaining what was going on, and she stopped me in my tracks. She said, Brian, right now you actually sound like an addict. And I dude, I guys, I broke down, man. It stopped me in my tracks. I cried for an hour straight.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

That hurts.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Oh, dude, I cried for an hour straight, man. It it it really was an eye-opener. I said, Wow, man, I felt like an addict. I I couldn't stop this, I couldn't stop the con. I just it was like a train wreck, right? And so, man, it's powerful. And so that's that's what it drove to us. It became so painfully obvious. It's sad that it took that, but for us, it was a great thing because ultimately that you know, that clash, everything we went through last year, and then finally with the restraining order, the restraining order proved to be a great tool for separation because at that point I was no longer trying to save the relationship at that point.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, you know, where it forced you to kind of be separate and together.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Yeah, and so I always say that that sometimes a breakup can be the best thing for your relationship. Um, if you work on it and you find yourself through all that and you do the work necessary during that time, that is the key. So you use that time to say, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna level up here, I'm gonna use this for knowledge, I'm gonna learn about myself, learn about relationships, trying to figure this out a little bit so I can have a better relationship with somebody in the future. Not knowing who it was gonna be, I had no idea that my wife would ever come back into my life. I thought there's no chance, this is done. Like this, I didn't want her back in my life at that time, I'll be honest with you. Like it was just over. So, but I was so fascinated by the integrated attachment theory program, and I saw a lot of answers there. And so I had come across Tyse Gibson's uh uh podcast from Tyce Gibson, T-H-A-I-S Gibson, and she's she's on the Mel Robbins podcast, and she did about an hour and 15-minute podcast talking about attachment theory. And I'd

Rock Bottom And A Wake-Up Call

SPEAKER_02 17:45

come across this video about a month before you know I actually had the restraining order and got thrown out of the house, if you will. And I was fascinated because I was like, man, there's some answers there. Like I just saw my wife was being dismissive, avoidant. I was definitely leaning anxious at that time. Um, and so I was like, wow, this is crazy. So I really just got into that work after the restraining order went on. I said, man, I just I just wanted to continue to learn this stuff and figure it out. And then she teaches the integrated attachment theory program, which is something that she created, which is really six pillars that move us from the insecure attachment styles that begin to move us towards the secure attachment style so that we can have healthier, happier, better relationships. And a lot of that work that I would do would actually prove out, you know, as it came back around with my wife, I was able to kind of apply some of these things and still today, you know, I'm still working on it, still learning on it, you know, still learning it more and getting better at it. But those six pillars and those six, you know, elements, if you will, were game changers as to you know how to have a relationship and do it a lot better because I never had the tools. I just never had tools to have a good relationship, right? And so that's why I always say I say there's nothing worse in life than losing the person you love simply because you don't have the tools necessary to keep them.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Yeah. Right? Amen. Yeah. Can you can you say a little bit more about the pillars? Like, can you say a little bit more? Because I think we talk a lot with our students, or at least I do. I don't know what Jesus does in his um Amen. What do you what do you call that? University?

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Let's not do this here. Brands again.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

A program.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Uh it's really good.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

It's more like a it's more like a barn with an open door. Okay. You know? Right. That's what they you know. I have the power to kick you out. No, man. So here's I think we talk with our students a lot about attachment and how, you know, sometimes people can get these attachment styles from their family of origins, right? And these attachment styles have needs. These needs, and especially the way that they try to get the needs met, can create patterns, right, in their style of relating to somebody. You could have an anxious attachment or an avoidant, you know, all of that stuff, right? Um and sometimes it's driven by fear. And sometimes the fear can distort the truth, and then people start relating to other people based off of that flaw truth, right? But now, how in the hell do you get somebody to go from anxious or avoidant to secure? Like, how do you do that? I I love yeah. I mean, no, I mean, just to let everybody know, I know how to do it. I'm just asking, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

And you know asking for a friend.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

For a friend. Right. You're asking for a friend. I just want the students to know that I know. That's right, that's right. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

We know that you know for sure, but let's let's. Of course.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

But how do you do it for uh education, obviously?

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yeah, for Julia's sake and everybody else. We're gonna share a little bit. So so I love first of all, I think it's the awareness of the attachment style. So if anybody doesn't know what attachment theory is, I definitely challenge you. If you want to do a quick search, look up Tys Gibson, Mel Robbins podcast, and that's a great place to kind of learn about the attachment styles. The six pillars are this, though. Number one, you have your core wounds. Those are the subconscious wounds, like fear of abandonment, like fear of uh not being good enough, or unsafe, or all these, again, subconscious behaviors that we've kind of picked up throughout our lives that we're now acting on. The subconscious is driving a lot of your relationships, a lot of your choices and decisions in life. And that's that's really vital that we start to tap into that and begin to heal those. The second one is your needs. We have to really begin to understand what our true needs are and then begin to feel those mostly on our own, right? We need to be able to be more independent and meet most of our needs on our own. So we're not outsourcing our needs to everybody else. That becomes a real problem. Number three is the emotions. There's really no bad emotion, okay? Um, if you're if it's fear, if it's anger, if it's uh frustration, anything like that. You just have to ask yourself, what's causing that? What are the thoughts I'm having that are causing me to feel afraid? What are the thoughts I'm having that are causing me to be angry right now, right? So is it is it a good anger, a healthy anger, where it's like, okay, if somebody just you know trying to attack me, you know, that then I might need to get a little angry to protect myself. But if it's just angry because, you know, my my wife didn't, you know, pick the glass up off the kitchen table and put it in the sink. But now I'm at a level 10 outrage, there may be something else going on there that's causing me to, again, feel so angry. It's a subconscious belief. Maybe I feel disrespected, maybe I feel unloved, unappreciated. There's something else that's going on to cause it, if you will, right? So that's the first three. After that, it's boundaries. How do I have good, healthy boundaries that I can set? The boundaries kind of protect my life, if you will, in the way I kind of want to operate. And I want to see who can respect my boundaries and adhere to them. And but they have to be good, healthy boundaries, not so extreme where, you know, where it's just unobtainable

Integrated Attachment Theory Explained

SPEAKER_02 22:30

uh and it's just, you know, kind of off the chart, if you will, or not like an anxious, a lot of anxious people don't have many boundaries at all, you know, because they're just all about the relationship. It doesn't, you know, let's just be boundaryless, right? So, which is also very unhealthy. So, how do I find some middle ground, some decent boundaries that we can adhere to and kind of shape this relationship if we want a positive way? Number five is a huge one, it's communication. How do I communicate in a way that my spouse and I really begin to hear each other, understand each other, really begin to, you know, meet each other in a way that's and that one was huge for my wife and I because you know you mentioned a little bit before, when my wife would talk to me in the past, I was always listening to defend, right? Because my wounds, my wounds wouldn't let me be wrong, my wounds wouldn't let me see it in her way. My wounds were protecting this situation and my perspective. And so I was listening to so that I can jump on her and say, This is where you're wrong. This is right. And so we couldn't even have a really good conversation. And she would be like, You're not listening to me. And I'd be in my world, I'm like, Yes, I am. I hear you. I'm listening because I want to respond. You better believe I'm listening, right? But that's not the way we need to listen anymore. So now my wife and I, and I was a big one of interrupting her, you know, she would speak, right? Now, well, I'll give her five or ten minutes. She speaks completely without me interrupting her. We look each other in the eye. You know, I want to listen to hear her. I want to, I want to know this woman. I want to understand who she is. I want to understand her thoughts, her feelings behind this, right? And see if I can find a different perspective, right? And then I get to do the same, you know, and so now I get to speak five or ten minutes, and we can go back and forth until we feel like the situation is really beginning to resolve, resolve itself. We're beginning to hear each other, understand each other, and move the needle in a direction where both of us can be happy and enjoy this, right? So that's number five. Last and not, you know, last but not least is our behaviors. How do I really change my behaviors and act in a way that is really becoming of a man or woman, right? So that people can look on and say, wow, this is a guy who knows how to handle his stuff. He's not flying off the handle and doing some you know terrible things and acting in ways that are unbecoming, right? I learned how to change my behaviors uh so that I can now, you know, again, kind of command a little bit more respect in a good way. So if for example, let's say, let's just say my wife didn't, you know, take the cup off the table and bring it into the kitchen. Instead of me getting angry about that, I may say, hey, you know what? I'm feeling a little triggered. I'm gonna walk for a little bit, I'm gonna go outside, I'm gonna just take a walk for an hour, and now I can come back in the house, I'm a little bit more regulated, I can now have that conversation and maybe talk about that situation with the cup. Hey, honey, you know, this is blah, blah, blah. We can talk about it. But if I try to go at it in a dysregulated emotional state, nothing's gonna, nothing good is ever gonna come of that. So I find when you work on all six of those elements, it is a game changer. And what I like is I can I can see like, okay, I need to work on this a little bit more. Maybe I improve here. Then I'm like, oh, wait a second, I need to learn more on this, I need to learn more on that, do better on this. It kind of gives me six things I can focus on to really begin to kind of move the needle. And every time I do a little bit, I just feel like I'm getting closer to that secured state. And and I have now tools in my tool belt that I can actually reach into when the relationship does have some issues. I have some tools that I can, you know, pull out of my tool belt, if you will, and begin to, you know, kind of fix that situation. And my wife and I, yeah, today my wife and I just do things way differently than we did, you know, a year and a half ago, and it's it's a game changer.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

So now, are you did you guys both kind of work through that, you know, integrated attachment theory program together? Or did you go your separate ways?

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Yeah, no, we went our separate ways, man. When I I started coming across the integrated attachment theory program, I tried to introduce it to her, but she was at that state where she was like, nah, I don't want to hear nothing about like get that stuff out of my face. Like, she's like, Yeah, and so but she was fortunate enough to work with a uh client of hers who is a childhood trauma specialist. And so she was working with a woman who really delved into her childhood trauma that was able to help bring out a lot of this stuff, which also was a great thing, but at the same time, I feel like it added a little bit of fuel to the fire. So even though, you know what I mean? Because here she was going through this, getting some healing, but it would definitely trigger some emotions. So I really feel like that was also added a little extra fuel at the end of the day to the fire, but ultimately would prove that really she got a lot of healing from that. And I think that's a big part of we have to go back and heal a lot of our childhood trauma, our wounds, the subconscious stuff. That's really what we need to fix. All this other stuff will come as well, and these extra tools are great. But if we don't really fix that part of us, a lot of times these extra tools, man, we're just putting a lot of you know, band-aids on a dam that's breaking, you know, the water's starting to gush through, and we're just trying to fix it a little bit. We've got to get to the core of it, and the and the core really is those wounds. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

There's one question real quick, because my students ask this sometimes. Uh and we have this class called Helping Relationships, but so you mentioned coral wounds, right? How this is so simplified, but how does one know when it's a choral? Dude, that's a that is a great question, Gus.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

I and I rarely give you props, but there's so many times I'm in class and students will say to be so hurtful.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Is that whole? This is me loving you.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

You guys might need to apply a little of this theory amongst each other.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Brian, we've just this is a call for help, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:48

No, you're you're a You're here to love each other, guys.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

You know, you're seeing everything from a defensive perspective. No, but this yeah, that's a great question, man. Because so many of my students will go, how do you know when you scrape the bottom? Like, how do you know when you're like, Yep, that's that's the pain. There it is.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Yeah, yeah. Um, and that's where so a lot of times it comes to that we we talk about being triggered a little bit. So let's just say we're looking at a situation. We'll go back to that cup on the plate, uh, on the table, if you will, right? If that's upsetting you at a at an emotional level like 10, where you're just like flying off the handle, but you know consciously, like, that's really not a big issue there. There's you know what I mean? Like, okay, it's a cup on the table. Yeah, it's maybe it's in my way, maybe it's,

The Six Pillars In Practice

SPEAKER_02 28:30

you know, I'd like it to be moved, obviously put away, clean the dishes, whatever. But should it be that emotionally triggering for me that I'm like flying off the handle about it? There's probably something deeper, and that's where we go back. I love Ty's Giftschin. She talks about a couple that she worked with, right? Where the husband and wife were arguing about clothes on the floor, and and the wife was always yelling at him to pick up the clothes off the floor. Um, and and here's the here's the going into therapy, and like the relationship is falling apart because of this. But what she finally discovered, she said, okay, well, when he doesn't pick up the clothes off the floor, what does that mean for you? What did what do you think that means? And and she goes, Well, I feel this disrespected. I feel completely disrespected. He doesn't care. He doesn't, he disrespects me. And then and then for him, he's going, Well, what does it mean for you? For him, he was she doesn't love me. She obviously doesn't love me. If it's that important or she's that angry at me because of the clothes on the floor, she obviously doesn't love me. So those were the stories that the husband and wife were telling each other. And then when they stopped and said, Wait a second, does he really disrespect you? Let's look at all the ways you do, he does respect you. And so we started, they started to delve into that work and say, Oh, wait a second. Yeah, he does respect me in a lot of ways. So this was just her own, again, wound kind of playing out. That's what I'm talking about when I talk about wounds where you just go, wow, wait a second, this doesn't make sense. Why am I so emotional over here? Why am I losing you know control over this in in such a manner emotionally that you know, um, that this is this isn't right. And that's where I say we got to tap into the emotions and ask ourselves, what is what are my Thoughts that are causing me to believe or feel this way, right? Because the beliefs lead to our thoughts, the thoughts lead to our emotions, and our emotions will ultimately lead to our actions. So belief leads to thoughts, thoughts lead to emotions, emotions lead to our actions. So we have to backtrack that a little bit. If my thoughts are at this level, what is causing, you know, if my emotions are at this level, what are my thoughts that are now reaching to that point? And that's where sometimes, again, it takes some work, it takes you know repetitiveness sometimes, where it's like, okay, wait a second. I notice this is happening, you know, all the time. And then we can start to think about that. Um, for me, it became blatantly obvious when when the everything started to fall apart. I knew I had an abandonment wound for my father. Um, and it just was like kind of obvious. But again, sometimes that wound gets you know triggered and pushed, and it's it's it's hard to stop that. That's why we got to heal it as much as possible. Because if we don't heal it, I always say we're all we're all secure until the crap hits the fan, right? Yeah, man. You know, it's like, yeah, of course, I'm I'm great, you know, I'm secure. I'm a man, of course. Look at me, I'm a man. I could take care of myself, no problem. But then when things really fall apart, that's when you're like, well, wait a second, you know, those wounds really get get touched, and now it becomes real. And it's like, wait, and you don't want it to get to that point, right? I mean, I my wife and I loved each other. That was a thing. It wasn't like she didn't love me or I didn't love her. We just had this conflict and and some of this stuff going on because we didn't know, we didn't understand ourselves at that point, at that, you know, in that regard, and then we didn't have anything to kind of work through that and fix it and kind of hear each other and learn and and grow. But um, yeah, some sometimes it just takes that critical stage of failure, like it did for my wife and I, to kind of get there. And it's it's unfortunate, but sometimes it does kind of hit rock bottom before we before we're willing to change. A lot of times we're not willing to change until we hit rock bottom, right? Because yeah, sometimes you could you might you probably notice it too when you talk to some people, like, hey, this is something you might want to look at, and they're like, Yeah, yeah, I got this, I got this, right? You know, we'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll figure it out. We're fine, we're fine. Until it's not fine anymore, you know. Good luck with that. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

You know, uh, yeah, man. Here's here's the things that I'm hearing, right? I'm hearing you talk about like, you know, the glass on the table. And I feel like so many couples that I work with, an argument is symbolic, right? Like, I mean I've worked with couples where you're sitting there and they are having a knockdown drag out fight about a bag of MMs, you know, and and then you're talking and you're slowly like, we're not just talking about MMs, are we? You know, and I don't know how much couples can can objectify what's going on, can sit there and go, okay, let's take a step back and look at what like we're not arguing about a glass, right? This is about something deeper than that, right? And and I'm wondering in in your work how because because you mentioned awareness as like the first step. How hard is it to get a couple entrenched from the hill that they're dying on? Clothes on the ground, cup on the table, bag of MMs in the freezer, whatever the case may be, to then start to go. I don't think we're just arguing about this. Let's let's like let's take a step back and let's look at all the symbolic little wars we're having. You know, is there a trick to it from your perspective?

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah, I wish I had the magic bullet for that one, right? I wish I had the trick, like not, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

We'd all be right on a yacht somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Yeah, right. I mean, man, if I just snap my fingers and have everybody wake up to that one. I think it's different for everybody at what level they they hit that critical stage a little bit. And some people, some people are lucky, they just kind of start to recognize a little bit sooner before it hits, you know, uh a tree straining order type of thing, right? But uh again, a lot of us have that different point. At the end of the day, we just have to start looking at ourselves. First of all, don't have, I recommend do not have conversations about anything serious if you're triggered. If you're triggered, the best thing you could do is walk away. Now, you what you do is you say, hey, honey, I'm feeling really emotional right now. I don't think this is a good time for us to continue this talk. I do want to revisit this conversation because it is important to me, and I won't certainly want to hear you out. But can we do this at a time when I'm a little bit more regulated? And and and share that with your spouse because sometimes if you just walk away, then then you you now really make the other person angry because they feel like you don't care. Right. Now you so we want to make sure that we understand, hey, this is important. We do want to talk about this, but we're gonna make this as a team, as a as a couple, we're never gonna have these conversations when we're dysregulated. And so that's a big rule number one for my wife and I. We won't have conversations if we're dysregulated, she is free to you know, step away, and I'm also free to say, hey, this isn't a good time. So that's the first thing. And when you do that, that's a huge game changer, first and foremost. And then yeah, just coming back to asking yourself, like, okay, why am I so true? Why am I so angry about this? What is the you know, is do I really hate this person? Is it this person? Is it the is it the cup on the table? Like, or or again, is it what I'm making it mean? I'm making that cup mean that he disrespects me. That person doesn't care about me, they don't love me, and now I'm hurt. Now you're pushing my hurt buttons, if you will. But instead of me being able to verbalize that or feel that, I'm now pushing back in a way that says, hey, you know, do you just you know, now I'm pushing harder. Clean the table, you know, you gotta pick that stuff because I really want them to love it, love me and respect me. But I'm doing it in a way that's really not conveying, you know, what I'm trying to get accomplished. And that's where we end up with this butting heads and trying to, you know, we end up in these conflicts with our spouse that just go nowhere, right? So so we have to step back, we have to be able to listen to each other, we have to trust that our spouse, you know, loves us, cares about us, they want the best for us as well. And um, and then be able to say, okay, I want to hear you out. And I think as a guy, I try to take the lead, right? Uh uh if I'm the guy I want to take the lead in this, hey, I want to let you speak. I want to hear you. I really want to stop what I was doing wrong. Like the way I was listening before was just so unhealthy. Uh, but I didn't know any better. And so sometimes it just takes that failure, you know, before us, before we're willing to make the change and be able to say, like, yeah, you know what, I I I need some help, man. I'm so bad at this. I mean, you know, I've I'm 56 years old, guys. I'm not a young guy, right? Right. So, like, man, I've gone through, I'd look at this, man. If I could have learned this in my 20s, right? If I could have learned, like, I think this stuff should be taught in schools and and and we should be growing up, learning how to right, how how to have relationships. Isn't that more important than you know, how to fill out some math quiz or something, like whatever, right? So don't get me wrong, those things are important too, but I truly believe that interpersonal relationships, man, they these are things are vital. Um, and I wish they were taught earlier. I think there's a great chance for a lot of young people to get a lot of this information um earlier than what I think we had access to. You know, when I was younger, we had you know you had a book that maybe came out once every 10 years that we're like, you know, you you'd hear about that you would maybe delve into, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Um you never want to see, you never wanted somebody to find your reading. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

You're embarrassed to read it.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

No, I'm not reading about love.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

No. Yeah, that's right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Healthy relationships. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

I'm not in a good man. Yuck. Yeah, right. So so no, I think there's such an incredible opportunity for young people to delve for anybody, really. With all the podcasts are out there and stuff that's online today, you can really learn a lot about relationships and and literally from the just you know, your own house, your own apartment, whatever, your your bedroom, and just watching videos like I was doing at times, like you can just learn so much, you know.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Man, I I gotta maybe this is a little shift, but I want to talk about boundaries real quick, because I know that this is a hot topic for a lot of students. So you know this is kind of like a two-fold question, right?

Listening To Hear, Not Defend

SPEAKER_00 37:45

One, what are healthy boundaries? All right, like when do you when do you say this is a healthy, appropriate boundary that should exist within my relationship? And then the second question is you're trying to create these boundaries, and in creating those boundaries, how do you differentiate between you know my partner is ready and willing to be present with me and go to the journey with me? Or I'm doing the work. I yeah, I have some issues, but my partner is really not a good fit or not in the handspace to be in a relationship. How do you how do you then make that transition?

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Yeah, great questions. I mean, yeah, both are both are challenging, both are a little bit individualized. Um, you know, the the boundary thing, you know, we have to again, I think as we learn about boundaries, because I didn't even know a whole lot about boundaries, period, right? Like I was more anxious, like I'm more like, nah, let's, you know, I'm good, right? Um, but the boundaries just need to be a little bit balanced. I always say things like this. Like, let's say, you know, you're a student, right? And you're saying, hey man, I need to study for my school. I've got schoolwork. I don't like anybody calling me past say eight o'clock at night, right? Yeah, that's that might be reasonable. Hey, I at past eight, I'm doing some homework, I'm going to bed at nine, ten, eleven o'clock, whatever that might be. I don't want to be interrupted. You know, that's a boundary I may put up so that I'm protecting my life a little bit, the things that are important to me, the things I need to accomplish, the things I'm looking for. Um, in relationship, you may say, you know, look, uh, you know, somebody might say, Well, I want to see you five times a week. And and I might be like, Well, that's a little too much, you know, like that may be overboard, right? So, so, but also saying, well, maybe we can see each other once every other month. Well, that's that's not a good way to date either, right? So, where do you find that middle ground that's somewhat healthy? So they say, Okay, because a lot of times dismissive avoidance, they're happy with, hey, I'll see you every other week, every couple weeks, whatever. But somebody else might say, No, I I like a lot of connection. I want to you know, I want to be connected all the time. Like an anxious person might call you 10 times a day. Well, that's too much, right? So, yeah, how do we begin to say, okay, what's reasonably healthy? What can we find some middle ground on that works for both of us? And can we find middle ground? This is where vetting and dating it comes becomes important, right? And being able to say, like, what's important to me, what how do we handle each other? Are we are we fighting a losing battle because we are so different in so many ways? Um, that that becomes a real issue. But if we can find some middle ground and say, you know what, this is important to me. I like to, you know, I'd like to see you twice a week. I know you only want to see, you know, I know you want to see me five times a week, but you know what? Can we do twice? Is twice good can we meet in the middle a little bit? Yeah. And is that fair? You know what? Yeah, let's do that. Because a lot of times it takes compromise. That's that C word we hate. Compromise, right? We don't want to compromise. We want it our way. We're like Burger King, right? Whatever. I want it my way, right? I don't want to have to compromise. So we have to be able to be willing to do that a little bit. And that's hard to, again, these are all those little things that definitely take a little time to figure out and learn and say, and boundaries can change. You know, something that is important to me today can change in a year from now. You know, the the boundary about like don't call me after eight o'clock may apply while I'm in school, but maybe after school and I'm no longer in that place. I don't have to kind of have that boundary anymore. But whatever the boundary is, I need to see number one, I need to verbalize it and I need to make sure, hey, this is important to me, this is why it's important a little bit, and then see who can respect that. And if somebody disrespects you, we have to approach them again and say, hey, that's I've asked you several times. This is very important to me. And if you can't like really respect the boundary on you know for me, then I'm gonna have to back off a little bit on this friendship, this relationship. You know, we're gonna have to take a step back because you know, I I can't be in a relationship with somebody who doesn't complete, you know, completely constantly can't uh adhere to some boundaries. You know, again, assuming they're healthy boundaries, right? Um yeah, and that's the second question is just that, right? It's like what what you know you say, like how long does it take, or how long should we do this if we're the ones doing the work? It really does come down to a personal thing. I think the longer you have invested in a person, like my wife and I have been together eight and a half years when things started to really fall apart. We have a family, we have kids, we you know, I'm gonna give that maybe a little bit more time. You know, if I'm doing the work and she's not, you know, if that's the case, fine. But if it's a newer relationship, you know, if I'm been together six months to a year, maybe I give it a month or two and I see if that if the needle moves a little bit. And if and if it's not moving a little bit, then I may have to say, yeah, you know, how much more time do I want to really invest in in something, you know, rather than waiting till seven, eight, nine, ten years down the road, right? So uh that's where dating and vetting and learning how to do some of that can really kind of save us problems down the road and and keep us from having to, you know, get involved with something where 10 years later it actually is worse and more difficult to then kind of back out and move on, right? So I I think dating is a whole nother world and it's something else that I think is a great topic. Um, how to date, how to vet, you know, how to kind of really look at what's valuable. I think taking it slow is a great approach. That's always my approach first. You know, take it slow, you don't have to jump into relationships really quick, you know. Um really get to know somebody and what they're about before you decide to you know make a deeper commitment, you know. Um and just yeah, take it slow because life is long. You know, you don't want to get stuck in something. I you know, time is time is valuable, and you don't want to be in a relationship that you know later on you look back and go, man, I you know, I never should have been there. I I had I saw the red flags, but I didn't didn't want to listen to them.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

And those rose-colored glasses on, those red flags just look like flags. You know, okay, gosh, I can't see red. Yeah, it's tough, man. I I like I like that, man, because like I think what you're talking about to me, like what I'm hearing is the the word flexibility, right? Like being able to see yourself and your relationship as something that can change and grow and move and flex, you know, around ideals. And I think the more that you're able to be flexible, the more you're able to share with your partner or maybe even your awareness of yourself. I think the the easier it is to have respect. Like I heard you say the word respect, and in my mind what I was thinking was, and you tell me if this is like, I don't know, a stretch. I think sometimes

Spotting Core Wounds Beneath Fights

SPEAKER_01 44:00

we conflate respect with like you're respecting a person instead of respecting their process, right? And like here's what I mean, here's my ideal, right? Let's say you and your wife meet again for the first time next week, right? Knowing what you know now, right? And you have full cards, things that you've been through, fear of rejection, fear of abandonment, the stuff, it's all there. And you, when you meet with her, you give her your cards, she gives you her cards, and the relationship starts with you having her information, you know, and then instead of respecting her, you respect what's on the cards. You know what I mean? And it to me it feels like that's how we have a healthy attachment, is that I give you the power to hurt me in my vulnerability, and then you respect it by making these intentional choices each day. You know, like the cup isn't left out because I am respectful to know that if I leave this cup out, you could feel rejected or abandoned, you know, if we're just gonna use an example. I may be a little bit more intentional about the dishes, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

You know, that's interpersonal, but all right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

You know? And it's not an attack. And you know, if she's listening, then she should know. You know, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Wouldn't it be great if if that was kind of how it worked, right? You you just got the cards right up front and you knew right away, oh, this is this is what you're gonna do, these are your issues. Oh, that's perfect. Oh, I can deal with those. Yeah, that's not gonna be a problem. I got that. Yeah, we can do it.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah, but you know what I mean? If you're if you're dating, I don't know, because I don't, I mean, I don't know about you guys, but when I was dating my non wife, man, I I didn't know how blind I was to my own stuff until it just smacks you in the forehead, you know, and like, man, how nice would it have been if I could just go up to her and be like, hold on, look, here, you you take these and give me yours, and then we'll dan, we'll do a waltz around these for the rest of our lives, you know, and like I think that's I think that's what we go back to.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Like, if we could do this work really before we get into relationships, that's really the best time to do it, is before you get into relationships. Now, unfortunately, a lot of times it takes us getting into relationships for us to get these triggered and these things start to come apart. Right. It's just the way it works out sometimes. But yeah, in a perfect world, right, we'd learn all this, we'd get into the perfect relationship, we'd recognize our partner right away for their flaws, all that stuff. And unfortunately, it doesn't work quite that simple. So we have to kind of look at it as we go and then see where this, you know, see how this thing leads. And that's where the dating, I think, taking some time and really, you know, taking not having to rush into some things and taking some time to really get to know somebody over the next three, six months, a year before you're like, okay, I got a pretty good feel as to what this person's about, what they're like, um, how they handle you know our my boundaries and and some of my thoughts and feelings, right? And so um, that's where it just takes some time to do that. Um, and ultimately, when the love is there, we build that big, loving, strong bond. Um, and then we see that we both are flawed. That's the thing. We're both flawed. It's not like I'm perfect and she's not, or vice versa. We both have flaws. So we have to be able to forgive each other, we have to be able to accept like this is this is a flawed human being. This is somebody who's hurting on the inside, has their own issues, you know, and um, and for the most part, I think most people are trying to do the best they can with what they've been given, you know, unless you're just outright evil, nasty person. But I find most people aren't, right? Most people I think are just struggling and trying to put it together and don't understand sometimes their own behaviors. Um, and so we have to be a little bit that doesn't mean I should accept everything they do per se, right? But but I can certainly forgive them and say, okay, you know, I I get it a little bit. Um, but at some point, yes, I have certain boundaries, I have certain ways that I'm looking forward in my life, and I want to kind of find somebody that's willing to meet me there and can uh we can work together to you know have that loving connection, respect, know how to communicate better, you know, operate on a higher level, higher vibe, so that you know we are having great relationships because you know it's one thing to stay together, it's another thing to really love staying together and and be happy to be together, you know. And and my wife and I, we choose each other today. You know, every day we're together, we choose to be together. I she can walk out of my house tomorrow, and it's all that's fine. That's that's her choice, and vice versa. But we choose each other because we love each other, we've worked at this, we've we've put the time in, we know each other better now, and we know how to handle each other and work on it, you know, help each other, you know, meet each other's needs better and stuff. So why would we want to leave? Right? The better our relationship becomes, the stronger the bond becomes, the less likely that person is gonna leave because you don't find that every day. And that's something that is very special. And so uh so yeah, it does take that. Unfortunately, I wish we could do the card thing. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

No, man, but I like you know, because like when I'm hearing you talk and I'm here, I'm thinking about the name of your practice, you know, where what did you call it? Uh make your relationship fail. Yeah. You know, like relationships can end and the couple can stay together. Like your relationship is a testament of that. You know, this relationship we're in can end, but we can stay together and develop a whole new relationship with the cards, you know, with knowing each other's stuff, and it feels like to me, that's the work you're doing. It's like, okay, let's make this thing fail, and then let's rebuild the relationship that we want with intentionality, you know. And just because that thing ended doesn't mean you guys have to separate, you know. It it is actually a call to arms, you know, to to sit and face each other and go, okay, how are we gonna take responsibility for this thing for the next 30, 40, 50 years?

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Yeah, so I would say they call it a breakup, not a breakdown. And so the first thing we're gonna do is use the breakup time to level up. We're gonna level up now. Whether or not our spouse comes back to us and we're able to work on that again, or it's somebody new, doesn't matter. We are going to level up in our own game. Our own game is gonna level up here. We're gonna learn from this experience and use this to launch us into something great. Now, I always talk about a super ball, right? The harder and faster you throw a super ball on the ground, the higher that super ball is gonna bounce. And so I always feel like I'm a Superball guys. All right, I hit hard and fast, but I grow, I I bounce really high. And so sometimes that's what it takes, right? It takes that failure, that complete disastery, like, oh my god, you're heartbroken, you're you're just gut-wrenching, loss. There's nothing worse that there is nothing worse, right, than losing the person you love because you just can't figure it out. It's brutal, it hurts so bad. But at that point, we have to take ownership of ourselves. We have to look at use that time, I promise you, as a vital, perfect situation to learn about this, understand your where you're showing up, maybe improperly,

Regulating Before You Communicate

SPEAKER_02 51:00

how you can improve in there, get some more tools, communication better, learn all that stuff. And now, if your spouse comes back around like mine did, we don't we're not fixing the old relationship to honor, you know, that that relationship was dead and gone. Yeah, and that's what I used to always say to her. I used to say, I don't want to fix this relationship. I want a new relationship. Yes, and the only way you get a new one is to end the old one. So the old one ended, that's dead and gone. But now I have a new one, and now this new one is like that's like a Phoenix rising. It's like a totally different ball game. It is beautiful. Um, it's a thousand times, but it's not perfect. I know we're still growing, we still have some things to work on for sure, but we are like doing things a thousand times better than we ever did before, and it's and it's phenomenal. And I thought it was pretty good before, but looking back, I go, man, it's it's a thousand times better than that was. Like, how great is that, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Man, we I feel like we can we can talk to you for another half hour, you know. But if we got so we got about uh two or three more minutes left. So two questions. One uh if like one of our students is getting into attachment theory and they don't know where to start, you know, they want to learn a little bit more about the integrated attachment theory model. Give them a direction to go in. That's number one, and then number two, if people wanted to hear more about you and about your story and maybe some of the things that you can offer to the community, where would people go to find out a little bit more about you? So this two questions.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Yeah, this the the fastest way to start getting some information about attachment theory is literally YouTube. It's a treasure trove. I love Tyus Gibson, T-H-A-I-S, Gibson, G-I-B-S-O-N. Uh G-I-B-S-O-N. Uh Tys Gibson, you can YouTube her attachment theory. I promise you, go look at the the Mel Robbins podcast with her. Great hour and a half video on that, and you can just really sit there and really delve into it. Now, if you want to get deeper into it, go to my website at Make Your Relationship Fail or My Relationship Fail. Either one takes you to my website and you can take the attachment style quiz for free. Okay, you'll learn about your own attachment style, and you can join Tyce Gibson's Personal Development School from my website, okay? And you will get you can do it monthly, you can do it uh three months at a time, however you want to do that. Um, very affordable, very reasonable price, and it is a treasure trove of videos and workbooks that you can delve into. Um, they have daily webinars that are phenomenal. They have um uh after after the webinars, there's a lot of people that hang out and we do social hours, if you will, and people talking about the relationships and what's going on and what they're learning. It's phenomenal. And that is six days a week that you can do that. That's all included when you're part of that program. When you join from my website, I'm gonna give you a free session. I'm gonna give you a free full hour. I want to hear your story, I want to see what's going on with you, see if I can help point you in the right direction, bring you some awarenesses, and get you off and running in a really great way. But let's move that needle as fast as possible. If you want to stay with me and work with me on a as a coach, I'm happy to coach you through that program. Let's move that needle even faster and get you really in a really great position, have a great relationship. Um, and and again, I always like to give people hope. I don't care. Uh big reminder, it doesn't matter what it looks like right now. If your spouse walked out and you hate each other, they should listen, my wife told me she hates me. She'll never be happy so long as I'm in her life, right? I remember hearing, I'll never be happy so long as you're in my life. And as soon as I was gone, she was the most miserable she ever was in her entire life, right? And so and she will tell you that she was it was the most painful, miserable several months that she ever went through. Um, because that's just the emotions talking, that's just the frustration. That's sometimes just what we're dealing with. I promise you, if you do the work and you get some knowledge and some healing and you really begin to change, then you can change the dynamics of that relationship and things can happen. Even if your spouse isn't, I always say, you know, two people is better than one, but one is better than none. Okay, so even if your spouse isn't working on this, doesn't matter. You take the reins, you begin to work on it, and you can start to see some change. Now, a lot of times your spouse will come with you, just they all of a sudden they start making some changes because you're doing it. But if they don't, you'll be at least in a healthier position to know that that's not a good, healthy relationship for you, and you may eventually cut ties with that and move on to something healthier and better for you. And sometimes that breakup is what they need. That's the maybe the kick in the pants that they may need to finally get going. But uh, either way, do the work, get the healing, and and the sky is the limit. This stuff is unbelievable where you can go. Um, I'm a guy who came from nothing, man. I had no relationship skills. I am the worst. I'm horrible. I'm terrible. Like, I seriously, I was just so bad at relationships. I remember the first girl I fell in love with, man. I didn't I didn't even know how to, I didn't know anything on how to you know tell her that, express that in any way, right? So I came from that.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Yeah. So I think that's most common.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

Yeah, yeah. Well, but but again, uh, if we can learn some of this, you you can grow and you can go from one of those insecure attachment styles to the secure attachment style. You can have tools of better communication, you you can learn how to set boundaries in a way that are healthy, you can learn how to get control of your emotions, you can change your behaviors and start acting in a way that you know, male or female, you're you know the opposite sex, where if you're going to attract people more so because you're really handling yourself differently. And all of a sudden, now the sky's the limit, right? So why not if you do that, man? Hey, you're not as worried about if this person in your life that is unhealthy, if that person doesn't work out, then you're okay because you know, you know, you're okay number one. Number two, there's there's a world of beautiful people out there, and I promise you, you can meet somebody literally, you know, tomorrow, right? It's just, you know, when it's right and you're and you're and you're putting yourself in the right position, you can make meet somebody really wonderful when the time is right. Tomorrow it doesn't have to be five years from now, ten years from now. I always used to think that too. Like I'd you know, break up and say, Oh, I'm not, I'm never gonna have somebody in my life for another two years, five years. Yeah, yeah, I'll be alone forever, or it's gonna take forever to find somebody new. No, it's not. Literally, and I can I'm not gonna share my story, but literally I promise you, you can meet somebody very quickly. But do the work, that's the key. Otherwise, you're just gonna wind up in the same pattern and you're gonna continue to repeat some of this unhealthy stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

That's awesome, man. Thanks, Brian, man. We appreciate it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you know our students are gonna listen to this, digest it. You know, it will probably be the brunt of their questions. So I'm gonna say with confidence, this is not gonna be the last time we have a conversation.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Man, I hope we can do this again, guys. I I love you. You guys are awesome. You guys make me laugh. You're awesome, guys. You're just good dudes, man. I

Boundaries That Protect, Not Punish

SPEAKER_02 57:30

love it. This is I can do this all day.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

Nah, that's great, man. We appreciate it. Thanks for the work you're doing because so many couples need it, man. So many couples. I mean, that's one of the things I feel like I see the most in my community is so many couples, just like you see it in their eyes, holding hands, but not their eyes aren't connected. There's no life, you know. Like, it's tough, man. And so you're doing the work, man.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

I'm on a mission, guys, man. I I know that everything happened to me for a reason, and I'm on a mission to help as many people as possible now. That's it. So thank you for thank you for allowing me this time to share my mission with you guys.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

Of course, man. Of course. This won't be the last time. We'll we'll get in touch with you and we'll try to set up another one so we can have maybe some follow-up questions that some of our students have. Trust me, man. We're in class and we're talking about some like really important stuff that they need for psychotherapy. And they're like, show your podcast. I had a question.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

Yeah. That's awesome. I love it. I love the work you guys are doing now.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

All right, man. Let me stop. Let me stop this recording.