American Experiment Podcast
Why are so many Minnesota high school graduates unable to read or do math at grade level? Does Tim Walz actually think he's going to be the next president of the United States? And why does he keep swearing so much?
These are the kinds of hard-hitting questions we get into every week on the American Experiment Podcast, where we unpack the week's biggest stories, interview Minnesota's movers and shakers, and "stop the tape" on clips of our state's most ridiculous elected officials.
New episodes drop every Tuesday afternoon and are available on every major podcasting platform.
American Experiment Podcast
Episode 122 - WALZ'S Education GRIFT: Grad Rates UP, Test Scores DOWN
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
đź’Did Walz improve Minnesota schools as Governor, or only make them worse? Comment belowđź’
Check out the American Experiment Podcast
Welcome back! This week on the American Experiment Podcast…
Minnesota’s boasting a record-high graduation rate, but there’s more to this story than meets the eye, so Bill Walsh joins the show to shed light on Walz's talking point (ft. STOP THE TAPE!). A convicted fraudster is sharing a crucial conversation she had with Keith Ellison that may shed light on what our Attorney General knew (and when). Finally, Minnesota’s unemployment rate is up — is Pres. Trump to blame? On the back half, hear how Rep. Ron Kresha is fighting to restore excellence to Minnesota’s education system through school choice.
Remember to LIKE, SHARE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE so you never miss an episode of the American Experiment Podcast. We’ll see you next Tuesday afternoon!
Find the full audio show wherever you get your podcasts including:
Apple Podcasts, and Spotify!
Check out our NEW legal podcast: The rationally Based Podcast
Follow The American Experiment on: Twitter/X, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok
00:00 - Welcome back!
01:28 - Question of the week: Has Gov Walz leadership made MN schools better or worse?!
02:03 - Bill Walsh joins the show!
02:29 - STOP THE TAPE: Walz's graduation rate talking point, but is it a good thing?!
04:08 - The test scores tell a different story...
06:40 - Minnesota students are NOT prepared for their next step
08:53 - A preemptive Stop the Tape!
10:01 - New SHOCKING details from fraudster on their meeting with Ellison...
15:58 - Minnesota's unemployment rate higher than national average!
20:15 - Rep. Ron Kresha joins the show!
43:03 - Hearing from you!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#minneapolis #governorwalz #walz #minnesota #legislature #capitol #mn #republicans #democrats #politics #gop #dfl #stpaul #culture #politics #fraud #corruption #committeemeeting #hearing #taxes #schools #education #test #testscores #graduation
Welcome back to the American Experiment Podcast. Catherine, what do we have on the docket today? Well, this week we're stopping the tape on Minnesota's highest graduation rate ever. And then new details have surfaced from a convicted fraudster on a conversation she had with Keith Ellison. And finally, Minnesota's unemployment rate is up. Is Trump to blame? On the back half, we're talking to State Representative Ron Kresha about the fight for education freedom in this year's legislative session.
SPEAKER_02Let's dive in. If this is your first time joining us, welcome. Things are crazy here in Minnesota. And we try to bring you a more sane perspective and take on things. I'm Grace Keating here, of course, with Catherine Johnson.
SPEAKER_03Hello, everyone. It was so lovely to see all of the people at the 250th celebration last week on Monday night. We had David Azeroth, who's a professor from Hillsdale, who you guys heard from on this podcast, who put on an excellent performance. And we met so many fans of the podcast. So thank you guys so much for coming to that. And thank you for coming up and saying hi and telling us what things you like to see in the podcast because that informs what we do every week. So we really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And if you missed the episode where we had David Azaret on, I think that was a week or two ago, definitely go check it out. I think we also have a full recording of his speech from last week posted here on our YouTube channel if you're watching on YouTube. And go check it out. He was, I mean, he's such an interesting speaker, and it was a really great conversation. So absolutely check that out. Our question for you this week here on the American Experiment Podcast, please let us know in the comments. Coach Tim Walls, our own teacher governor here in Minnesota, has been in office now since 2019. And as we're going to talk about in just a minute here, graduation rates are higher than ever here in Minnesota. That seems like a good thing. Sounds sounds great. Sounds great, right? Do you think, under our teacher governor, Coach Tim Walls since 2019, that Minnesota's. Educator in chief. Educator in chief, yes, thank you. Under our educator in chief, self-proclaimed that Minnesota's education system has gotten better or worse. Please let us know in the comments. Now for our first story today, we have brought in our very own stop the tape guru, Bill Walsh. Bill, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_04I've never been called a guru before. I'm very excited.
SPEAKER_03It's our first time for everyone.
SPEAKER_04Hopefully I will live up to guru expectations.
SPEAKER_03Guru makes it sound like he should be in like a toga or something, don't you think?
SPEAKER_04Nope, we're gonna stick with the blue.
SPEAKER_03Like a guru, like a like okay.
SPEAKER_04They make togas in blue button-down collars? Because that's all I'm gonna wear for.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna be like uh okay, never mind. Carry on. We've brought you here today as our stop the tape guru.
SPEAKER_04Scared away the audience.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, now there's two people left watching. Um because graduation rates have once again gone up in Minnesota. And as you might remember from about a year ago, this is our own Governor Walls' favorite education metric to tout. Um, you know, maybe maybe the kids can't read as much, and maybe the kids can't do math as well, but we're graduating a lot of them, so that's good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it turns out at 84.9%, the four-year graduation rate is up. Last year's rate was eighty-four point two percent. So, you know, as Tim Walls says, this is a moment worth celebrating.
SPEAKER_04Celebrating.
SPEAKER_03His quote, decades in the classroom have helped inform many of the goals I've set and the policies we've passed over the last seven years to support our students, teachers, and parents. Every student who receives that diploma is better equipped to navigate the challenges of landing a job, pursuing higher education, and building a future they feel excited about.
SPEAKER_04Is it allowed for me to stop the tape on her? I mean, I know you're just reading Tim Walls' language, but I wanted to stop the tape, and every student is is benefiting. No, they're not. I mean, test this is his favorite in output, like you said. He he's all about inputs. Like we spent more money in education. Okay, congratulations, that's an input. We fed all the kids. You know, great. That's literally an input. Um, but but a test score, uh data point, a graduation rate, it's the only output he ever talks about.
SPEAKER_02Now, to that point, we've got this campaign ad here from you know our coach Tim Walls, our educator-in-chief, our governor, who was also a teacher. Uh you would think that education has really flourished and improved under his his time as governor here in Minnesota. Let's roll this tape.
SPEAKER_04We've raised graduation rates to the highest ever. All right, stop the tape. So raise graduation rates to the highest rates ever, but reading scores are down, math scores are down, bad, assigned scores are down, ACT scores are down, national test scores are down, graduation rates are up, it's all he's got is graduation rates, and it means nothing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. I mean, what are some of the actual outputs we we might want to look at? Because as we've said in math and reading, Minnesota high school students are performing at the lowest levels ever recorded for a graduating class. So you can see that in their MCA scores, the Minnesota Comprehensive Assessment Tests that they take in 10th and 11th grade. As 11th graders, stop for a second. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0411th grade is pretty close to graduation, right? It's like only one more year to catch up and where are they at?
SPEAKER_0311th graders, just 34.7% of the class of 2025 met grade level standards in math. And as 10th graders, only about half of them were proficient in reading.
SPEAKER_04So that's a lot of makeup work in the last year and a half, two years, uh, you know, forget senior slide or anything there. To get everybody to the 84.7 or 9% that we're at for graduation rates, it's not believable because it's not happening.
SPEAKER_03No, and you might wonder why don't they take a test when they graduate? Because we're having to go back to find some of these numbers in 11th grade and 10th grade from the MCA. Bill, why is it that's a great opportunity?
SPEAKER_04They used to. There used to be a graduation test that students had to take before they graduated. Um it was basic skills test, I think it was what we call it, and the it's had different names over the years. But it was really basic skills. Can you can you show some proficiency in math and reading so that when we give you the graduation diploma, it means something. They eliminated that. The legislature eliminated that in 20 2013.
SPEAKER_03The DFL controlled legislature.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's a trifecta back with Mark Dayton as governor. So it's before Tim Wallace came in, but I think his quote he just says is this graduation rate's the result of decades of work. Well, yeah, decades of work since you eliminated the test uh for for students to to graduate. Now we're achieving 84.9% graduation rate. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so there's no test. There's also no state mandate mandated minimum GPA requirement. The only thing that matters is completing a minimum number of course credits.
SPEAKER_04Educators call that seat time. So it's literally stay in the seat, pass the class, or get through the class, just you win every day or most of the days, then we move you on because of seat time. It's not a good nothing to be proud of.
SPEAKER_03The one other kind of output we have are ACT score results, which tell a very similar story. Scores in English, math, science, and overall composite averages for Minnesota's class of 2025 remain at record lows. Only 39% of exam takers met at least three of the four college readiness benchmarks. And perhaps even more concerning is that 36% met zero of the college readiness benchmarks in that class of 2025.
SPEAKER_04I mean just a basic level of government. You know, you're governor of the state of Minnesota, like you said, he's a teacher. Prepare kids. Our K-12 education system should prepare kids for the next thing. Whether that's college or tech school or you're gonna be an electrician. You need these basic skills. You need math in and reading and writing and science skills at the basic level to do anything. You know, and they're gonna say, oh, well, we're we're retooling high school and we're making it more about the future economy. All of it is gonna need math, reading, writing, science at a basic level. So it's just no matter what they're gonna do, we should prepare them to open any door, not have any door closed to the kids when they come out. But this education governor is coming in a complete failure, and this is all he's got to talk about graduation rates.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell And if you look at the big picture, if you zoom out, so okay, 85% of Minnesota's students are graduating. Does that mean and if you all all you have to do to graduate is show up, does that mean 15% of Minnesota's students are not showing up to school enough to qualify for this meaningless diploma?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that does say a lot about that 15%. And we should be really worried about that 15%. And it's another failure of us as as a state. And this is post-COVID, the number's grown since COVID. We lost a lot of kids in COVID. We had no accountability. We told them to stay home, we told them to zoom in, but you you you know, we lost a ton of kids in the state, and we haven't got them back. And that's that's it's it's great that you mentioned that 15%, because that they're even they're even worse off than the kids that did the seat time.
SPEAKER_02Well, and this is a good reminder to always question the statistics and the metrics that you're seeing being touted by the media and by our politicians and by our leaders, because at face value, a higher graduation rate for a state sounds great. That must mean that our students are doing really well. And of course, once you dig in just a little bit deeper, that's not the case at all.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and we need to have higher standards. I mean, we don't have to have such low standards for our students. Absolutely. They are capable of achieving more, whether or not, like you say, whether or not you go on to college afterward, or whether or not you go on a different path. You need these skills. They're doing such a disservice. I mean, for all the money, for all of my tax money that is going into our education system, we have nothing to show for it. It's really sad.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and one last note, this was one of the shortest stop the tapes we've ever done. This is also the first preemptive stop the tape we've ever done. Because we're gonna make a little prediction here. The governor's gonna deliver his last state of the state address. I think it's April 28th, so at a few weeks from uh when we're taping this today. And he this line's gonna be in the state of the state. I'll just bet you right now, everything we have, that this line, he's gonna say graduation rates are at the highest level, and we did that. And so you can you can when you see it, you can chuckle and say, Yeah, we we heard that on the American Experiment podcast, and then you can yell stop the tape, and then give all the uh the the the content that we just provided. We can all do stop the tape in our homes, watching the government, if you're watching the governor's state of the state. Go find something better next week. We watch it so you don't have to. That's our job. And we will probably have several things to talk about when he when he does that speech.
SPEAKER_03Uh a marathon stop the tape episode for Ewell.
SPEAKER_04We should do a live show. We could do a live show, except we didn't know.
SPEAKER_03Again, I hope the people listening are doing something more fun. But yes, maybe. If that's something you want, let us know in the comments.
SPEAKER_04April 20th. Yeah, the weather's gonna be nice that day. I feel it. I can feel it. Yeah, it's gonna be a nice day. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, Bill, thank you for joining us for this very special segment of Stop the Tape.
SPEAKER_04You're welcome. Great to be here.
SPEAKER_02Moving right along here, if you have not seen our last episode, number 121, we went over how Minnesota's Attorney General Keith Ellison was scrambling to return$12,000 in campaign donations that he had taken from individuals linked to the Feeding Our Future scandal. And this is all after, of course, telling Congress apparently that he hadn't taken any of those funds. It's you know, a little fishy.
SPEAKER_03But tried to do it in just a way that you're not quite sure if he's lying under oath or if he is. It's a little it's a little iffy.
SPEAKER_02Because if he is, that's uh those are serious consequences that he would be looking at. So was he lying? Was he not? You can go check out that episode if you want a more intensive conversation and discussion on that. But last week, new details surfaced from a convicted fraudster here in Minnesota who was recalling a conversation to a court that she had had with Keith Ellison back in 2021. And that's the question that keeps coming up in this whole discussion and investigation into Minnesota's fraud scandal was how much Keith Ellison knew, and more importantly, when he knew it. So Sharon Ross, 53 years old, is the former operator of the House of Refuge food distribution operation in St. Paul. She pled guilty in January 2024 to one count of wire fraud in relation to the Feeding Our Future scandal. Now, according to the Sahan Journal, she had admitted to using federal food relief funds on vacations to Las Vegas, vacations to Florida, a suite at a Minnesota Timberwolves game, and a home in Willerney, Minnesota. So, upstanding citizen uh Sharon is.
SPEAKER_03I do feel like that's a good diverse use of fraudulent funds. Some similar to what I would do. I would go to Florida and I would maybe go to some games. Yeah, Timberwolves game. Go see Ant play. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Not a bad idea. She was sentenced back in February 2025 to serve 43 months in federal prison. Uh now, according to Bill Glawn here at AmericanExperiment.org, Ross has been fighting for the past year for a sentence reduction. To that end, last month, Ross sent a seven-page email to the court dated February 22nd, 2026. I'm gonna read this full statement. This is fascinating. This is Ross saying this, Sharon Ross. I also contacted Keith Ellison as he was a speaker at the inauguration ball for Reverend Patterson in October 2021 and asked him about the program, and he stated to me that there was nothing wrong with the program and that I should continue. I recently watched the Senate hearings that took place this month, February 2026, where Attorney General Keith Ellison was questioned by senators. And it was stated that the attorney general was told about the fraud as early as 2019 or earlier, which was at least two years or more before I even heard about the program. And according to the senators at the hearing, the attorney general knew about the fraud and the fraud investigation, and he was even recorded having a meeting with individuals in the program and stated that he would take care of the situation. I believe that when I asked the attorney general about the program prior to me getting into the program fully, he should have at least been honest with me and told me to stay away from the program. He would not have had to give me any specifics, but tell me that nothing was wrong with it and that it would not be a good program for me to be part of, or telling me that there was nothing wrong with it and it would be a good program for her for her to be part of, makes me feel like I was getting set up even from him. That is fascinating. And the date of this interaction that she had with Allison, where she was talking about getting involved in this free fruit, free food program and him saying, yeah, it's there's fine, nothing wrong with it, it's going well. So that came two months before Allison's infamous December 2021 meeting with Defeating Our Future Fraudsters, which again he claims, he claimed at the time to have already been investigating it for years and years and years since 2019. But at that meeting, he says he has no idea what they're talking about. Yeah. And he, you know, he vows to go after these people who were trying to shut down, you know, these dishonest, you know, free fruit, free food programs.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, who were just going after these fraudsters because they were racist, of course. Right, right, right, right. That's so interesting. I have so many more questions on top of this. So she submitted this um uh she sent this to the judge in in the court, right? So what comes next? I mean, are they gonna are they gonna talk about this at trial? I have no idea, but I'm so interested to see what happens because it seems pretty significant to me that there's just more information coming out that's part of this timeline leading us to believe that Keith Ellison knew a lot more than he claimed to later on.
SPEAKER_02Well, and clearly he's not being honest with everyone in this story. I mean, here she is saying, you know, I got involved with this program. I was she's basically trying to mount a defense for herself, saying, like, I participated in this program thinking it was legitimate, you know, because our state's attorney general, the top lawyer in the state, apparently told me that it was all hunky-dory, it was fine, you know. And so clearly, so clearly he's not being honest with someone in this scenario. The question is who.
SPEAKER_03Right. And I don't know if that's just her trying to set up a good defense for herself. I mean, how far down this road can you get before you realize you're doing something obviously fraudulent? Yeah. You're not feeding children. I mean, come on. So I don't know if this makes any sense whatsoever or if it's just part of her tactic, uh part of her defense to try and get off of these charges. But it is interesting. The timeline that she's questioning, I think, is the most interesting part. Um, and I would love to hear them. I mean, I don't know, is it possible that they have to bring in Attorney General Keith Ellison as part of this trial and say, hey, when when did you what did you know and when did you know it?
SPEAKER_02That's exactly it. It's I think we're gonna have to get to a point where he is under oath being asked very specific, pointed questions, you know, uh uh pertaining to this December 2021 meeting, this conversation where he says, you know, I had no idea that you guys were, you know, you fraudsters were he doesn't say fraudsters, these these feeding our future groups uh were being, you know, attacked by the state uh uh and being tried to shut down. If he says under oath that he had truly had no idea that this stuff was going on, and then you have another witness's testimony, you know, Sharon Ross's testimony saying otherwise, then you're gonna have a serious problem from a legal standpoint.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. I don't know. I mean, uh what do you guys think? Another question for you, drop it in the comments if you have any thoughts. What did Keith Ellison know and when did he know it? Because right now it doesn't seem like anyone knows. Um but yeah, I mean we had other news out of Minnesota this week that was a little bit negative. Minnesota's Department of Employment and Economic Development came out with January's unemployment numbers. And they revealed that Minnesota's unemployment rate in January was the highest it has been in five years. According to the Star Tribune, Deed officials said federal actions are taking a toll on Minnesota's economy from a year of on-again, off again tariffs that stalled business investment to heightened immigration enforcement that bruised the workforce. So basically, the state blamed President Trump for our high unemployment numbers. It's ICE's fault. It was the surge. It's the only thing Democrats know how to do. Blame Trump. So there is a problem here, though, with this explanation. Of course, the country's unemployment rate is actually lower than Minnesota's. Uh historically, Minnesota's job market has outperformed the nation's. The last time Minnesota had a higher share of people looking for work was in May of 2007.
SPEAKER_02Ooh, I wonder what was going on then.
SPEAKER_03I know. So this is the first time since then that now um our unemployment rate is higher than the national average. Plus, nationally, the economy continues to improve. There were 178,000 jobs added in March, which was well above expectations. So everything that Deed is saying about this being, you know, Operation Metro Surge's fault doesn't really make any sense. I mean, the other thing is the way they get this data is they survey households. So we're supposed to believe that illegal aliens are skipping work and hiding at home to avoid ice, but they're answering surveys from the same federal government doesn't totally make sense. Plus, to be counted in this survey, it's not just like you don't show up to work, it's that you are unemployed and you are actively looking for a new job. That's how you'd be counted. So all of their language around this is pretty much just a straight-up lie.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it feels like they're trying really hard to force this narrative that our numbers are lower in part because of Operation Metro surge from the Trump administration that caused all of these illegal immigrants to stay home and not work. And then, yes, they're also kind of ignoring the the logic that they would have to be responding to government surveys and telling the government that they're looking for work even though they're unemployed. Like once you think just a little bit more about it, uh, the whole narrative kind of falls apart.
SPEAKER_03This is something everyone knows intuitively too. Like everyone I talk to realizes that it's hard right now economically in Minnesota. People are thinking about should I move to another state where I could have lower taxes? If I own a business, it would be much better for my business. I mean, everyone knows this, really. It's not a secret. And so I think the fact that they're trying to place this blame on the federal government is probably not even going to work because it's something that people just understand. It is harder to live in Minnesota economically for most people. And you can see that even as you look around to the states around us, because all of the states around us have lower unemployment rates than we do here in Minnesota. So, you know, if you think about why that might be, well, it could be, I don't know, our politics. I mean, you get what you vote for on some level.
SPEAKER_02And it's frustrating to see DFL leadership turning around and not recognizing that problem in our state's policies. And instead they're doubling down and they're saying, okay, we're gonna institute, you know, a wealth tax on our our state's most successful citizens, who are then just gonna pick up their businesses and their money and their jobs and move to other lower tax states. And then we're right back where we started. But even worse.
SPEAKER_03Or taxes on corporations, which they think sound good, but of course, just mean that corporations are gonna go elsewhere. If you want jobs in Minnesota and you're gonna tax corporations more than any other state in the country, well, corporations probably aren't gonna wanna be here. So we're gonna have fewer jobs, and then of course, that's just a tax that gets passed down to the consumer. I mean, we all know that. And so they they talk about these things at the legislature, and I think there is really a disconnect between what they think and their talking points, like tax the rich, and what normal everyday Minnesotans are actually seeing and feeling at home.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. Now, continuing our conversation earlier in the show, we are gonna sit down now with Representative Ron Kresha, who is doing some really exciting things to try and actually turn around Minnesota's education system at the legislature this session. Stay tuned. American Experiment is supported by thousands of individuals like you. To join the movement, go to www.americanexperiment.org and click the yellow donate button. From all of us here, thank you. We are so happy to be joined in studio today by our own Minnesota representative, Ron Kriesha, who has served in the Minnesota legislature since 2013. Uh, you represent House District 10A in north central Minnesota, which includes the city of Little Falls and parts of Aitken, Crow Wing, Kennebec, Malac, and Morrison counties. Preesha, thank you so much for joining the show.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you. Thank you for the invite and having me.
SPEAKER_03Uh, we always ask everyone when they come on the show for the first time, tell us a little bit about how you ended up serving in the legislature. It's kind of an interesting job. And I always wonder like what motivates people to want to get involved politically.
SPEAKER_01So uh in 2012, we were having the redistricting, and I was working in my home office. Uh, at the time I was doing some consulting, I did a couple of in between some some projects. And whenever you're home, uh and I and I have a very wonderful and supportive wife, but you know, I'm I'm complaining out loud, and she's hearing me all the time, right, from my office. And so I came across a news story that during redistricting there would be an open sentence seat. Um, open seat. So I announced loudly, you know, I should just run, kind of in that gruff voice, right? And my wife, who was incredibly supportive, said, Yes, you should, but I heard that in the tone and of inflection of like, yeah, you tell me you're gonna do things all the time. So I'm like, well, I will. So I penned an email, I sent it off, and I said, There. And next thing I knew, I was running. And then um I ended up not running for the Senate seat. I moved down to the House seat because of some uh some choices from other folks not to run. And Way we went. So that's that's how I got into politics. It was sheer anger and just impetuousness.
SPEAKER_02Me too. Best answer we've ever gotten to that question. Well, the other reason uh the big reason we wanted to bring you in today is because you've also been one of the, I'd say, biggest advocates in the last year for education freedom, real school choice for Minnesota, and there are so many different initiatives that we've we've talked so much about this show already. Um kind of the big news in the last few days has revolved around the federal tax credit scholarship program. Uh Governor Walls came out vehemently opposed to it, so he says, Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh and thank you for that. And I've been a big proponent for uh school choice, strong schools across the board, and giving parents really the opportunity to help set that direction and help those uh the pathways for their kids. The federal opt-in tax credit, which is quite frankly very well written, but gives the opportunity for um scholarship granting organizations, which could be public or non-public, and it really opens that pathway up for both sides. So this is a very creative use of tax credits, and I think it could uh really give a nice push to Minnesota. We have, I think, twelve or thirteen other states that have already opted in. Well, Governor Walls, who just uh can be very tunneled vision, um, you know, he he came out with a quote yesterday and NPR picked it up where he said, You should just go home. I'm not gonna opt in. So today I decided guess what? We're gonna go home. Because Governor, you won't you won't have any flexibility on this. And as I like to remind people, you can give a$1,700 tax credit out of this starting in 2027. And if Minnesota hasn't opted in, those dollars are just going to another state. Those are going to other children and other families, and that just doesn't make any sense. So the the governor is being very uh hard-headed about this, uh, among other things. But on this one, he's just not willing to see any flexibility nor the benefits of this.
SPEAKER_03You also uh proposed a bill that would uh force Governor Walls essentially to opt us into this program. And it gave it the opportunity for the Democrats to um really give their arguments and put their arguments on the table. Why is it that this this federal tax credit, which seems to be a total positive for all students, it seems to me, why are you against it? What were some of the arguments they gave in that hearing?
SPEAKER_01Right. So that's that's very interesting. So House File 3490, which was actually authored by Representative Bakeberg, and then I was an Representative Meyer, excuse me, and then I was a number two on that. Um so we had a hearing on that. And I tried to keep it in a non-political tone. I I said, hey, let's look for uh bipartisan support on this, give people time to talk. But I said I will have a vote on this if I I I don't see any of that movement. Well then Governor Walls came out and um he actually put some empty threats out there. But the arguments against this, against this bill, because we voted on it yesterday in education finance, I called for a vote, was number one, uh there's no accountability to these dollars. Which what that really means is the Democrats, uh my colleagues on their side, they want to create mandates and they want to tie that to social agendas and other. Rather than actually letting the dollars flow for pure educational purposes, they want to make sure they control every dollar to go through the states.
SPEAKER_03As if there's accountability for the state money that we have already. Look at what happened, look at what's happened in Minnesota. You you want to think there's m there's accountability in our state government?
SPEAKER_02That's absurd. Sorry. It's odd too, because the only entities handling the money are these scholarship granting organizations. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the way uh a governor opts their state into this program is by s literally sending the federal government a list of the approved scholarship granting organizations who can participate. So if you're the one approving these organizations, governor, then everything should be kosher, right?
unknownAaron Ross Powell, Jr.
SPEAKER_01Right. And and in fact that was another argument we brought back up. So the plan the the program starts January 1, 2027. Uh so we still need some clarification from the feds on what what will be the rules for these uh scholarship granting organizations and then how can those dollars be used. We have about 20 um items now like tutoring and transportation and some things that are already in place, but we need to opt in so that parents and schools and um scholarship granting organizations can start to get in place, and then if it isn't going to line up correctly, there will be time to adjust it, or the legislature could just opt out next year. I mean, if it's a terrible program, yeah, let's opt out. I don't think it will be, but we're not building that time, we're not be building that creative space to figure out how to make this successful. Um other arguments against this is uh get this one. Um this will take more students out of public school and put them into private schools. Okay, that that is not the case at all because uh, first of all, most people are gonna make their choices on their schools based on the educational values they have, maybe religious values, as well as proximity where these schools are. And this is an opportunity for both public schools and private schools to leverage this. So there's not gonna be this mass exodus, but what there will be, there will be more dollars to help uh special ed students with transportation, students who have tutoring needs, or they can have other programs. I'll give you a quick analogy. As I taught people have asked me about this, I'm like, listen, schools, public schools, and private schools are already good at asking for dollars. I have four daughters. I told all of my daughters in high school you could date one guy, and they're like, well, why, Dad? I'm like, I don't want to buy four sets of athletic booster clubs, you know, for you can't date four guys a year. So but my point is schools already know how to do candy bars and all these other things. This is just a way to take those tax credits and leverage it.
SPEAKER_03Right, absolutely. It's also that argument from the left really insinuates that they think it's a good thing that students with lower-income houses and families should be trapped in in schools they don't necessarily want to be. That's really what they're saying. Because if the barrier that we're trying to solve is, yes, some there's not enough money in some of these areas for our kids, and it shouldn't be going directly to our kids, and they should be able to choose where it goes, they think it's okay that money is a barrier for some of them. I think that's really kind of like such a sinister argument when you look into it.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell Well, that's exactly right. What what I see from the arguments on my colleagues on the left is not only do they want them to be remained in a certain um structure or an economic, but they want to tell them how to get out. And instead of let's just give you the tools and let you figure that out and then celebrate when you come to success.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell It's frustrating too because the people who suffer in this situation are, you know, obviously Minnesota students, but uh the Minnesota families and even just taxpayers in general, we're paying into this federal tax credit already, and other states, kids in other states are gonna be able to take advantage of it. And like I as a Minnesota taxpayer, I could, you know, donate the$1,700 to a scholarship granting organization nationally, but my Minnesota students can't benefit from it. Only students in, you know, the other states who have opted in, including some blue states too. It's not like this is only Republican and red states who are opting into this. It's very important. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Colorado where the Democrat governors opted in. They see the benefits coming their way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Well, looking at school choice a little more broadly, you are the co-author on a bill that we at American Experiment have been really excited about. Um we're calling it 7K for kids. Would you talk a little bit about that bill and what it would do for students in Minnesota?
SPEAKER_01I will. So we'll we'll be doing an informational hearing on that later this year. Um so this is the ESA program, and I'm a big proponent of these educational savings accounts. And A, it it gives the the choice, right? It allows the parents to um send the dollars and directionally handle where they're gonna go. But liken this to an HSA. I've I run a couple of companies and we use HSAs a lot where we can contribute to a health savings account, and then they get to use those dollars at their discretion. They can save them or they can apply them when they need them. Let's just do that educationally, and this makes a ton of sense. So you could put up to$7,000 in this account for a student. They could use that no different than you might do for college, but now we're just applying it at the K-12 level. And it really allows us to pair people that want to have educational generosity with those that are in need. I I think that's a great working relationship.
SPEAKER_03Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It's actually such a good, I don't know if I've heard the HSA comparison before. That's a really good comparison because like I use my HSA for contacts, basically. That's like the main thing. But not everyone needs contacts, so they can use it for whatever they need, which is like exactly how this works. So that I like that comparison. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it's it's give some of that power that comes with tax dollars back to the parents. And it it you know, because again, like we were just saying, every taxpayer is paying into the public school system. Um but with I mean, how insane public schools have gotten the indoctrination we've talked about on this show, the the falling math and reading scores. Not every parent, even though they're paying into that system, wants to send their child to those schools. And so it's not as though these are$7,000 that each parent, you know, has to s scrimp and save up for their child. These are the tax dollars that they've already paid into the system, and we're just giving a portion of it back to the parents to use as they see fit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and we recently saw something else I think you've been a little bit passionate about, where the Anoka Hennepin School District came out and announced they are firing 75 staff members. Um and people were really upset about this. Of course, some of the people fired were um even social workers and things like that, things that a lot of I think people on all sides agree are are often useful to have in schools. Um but they blamed these unfunded mandates that the Democrats have put in place um for really why they they just don't have enough money as a school stress system. They have to lay people off. I know you've talked a little bit about this. How does that play into this conversation?
SPEAKER_01So it's a lot. Uh so I have a lot of good friends. I came from the public school system, I was a teacher, um, and so I understand the value of education when it's applied uh correctly. But what has happened at the state is uh through all of these unintended consequences and these misguided intentions, these dollars are flowing to the schools with all of these mandates tied to them. It you know, they're already in a leaky boat, right? So imagine this you're in a leaky boat, you've got to get across the harbor to the island, and the the Democrats with all of their mandates said, Hey, we're gonna bail some of the water out for you, but we're gonna give you this anchor and we're gonna make you roll. They just made it worse. And so now they're out there and they're stuck with this big anchor in the boat that they can't get rid of, and the boat's already leaking and all over the place. And the schools only have three options. They can either raise revenue, they can cut, or they can do a combination of those two. That's all they have the options are. So when you throw all these unfunded mandates on them, uh their their expense line just just grows and grows and they have no way of revenue. Except if you went to an opt-in um scholarship granting organization, you can start to get some of those dollars from that that process.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell That's why it's always so surprising that people on the left don't support programs like this. That would take some of the burden of not only serving a child, a student in the school system, but also just all the and you would free up funding for those schools. So it's always surprising to me.
SPEAKER_01I mean, let's just talk about two of the biggest unfunded mandates that schools have right now. Number one is they have free meals for all. Okay, that on surface, does that sound good? It's interesting, but the federal government had already paid for all of those students in poverty level. Right. So what we've done is free meals for all the very wealthy people. Okay, that just doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Um so and that's an unfunded mandate with about$450 million going away from the schools every year. And the governor is now proposing$300 million in special ed cuts. So the most vulnerable, do the math, right? We could have had$150 surplus if we had shifted those dollars. Yeah. And then the other one is unemployment insurance for uh folks over the summer. The reality is I was in the schools, you have you sign a nine-month contract. Um, you agree to tie nine months, you didn't agree to 12 months and get laid off. Right. Um and so this unfunded mandate of giving uh unemployment to people after their nine months, their hourly workers, they can then get unemployment all throughout the summer, and they're not contributing by driving buses, they're not doing other things uh that helps with the schools, and so that's pulling workers out of the workforce.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's just so frustrating because then they complain about our schools are not fully funded, our schools are not fully funded. Well, what if we took away some of those mandates and allowed them to do what they needed to do with those dollars? That's just such a disingenuous conversation that we end up having. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And on top of that, you now have the paid family leave burden that school districts are already kind of raising the alarm on because now they have to find even more staffed affiliate positions that are being uh, you know, uh left vacant by people taking advantage of the program. And then there's the the uh what would you say, bureaucratic burden, I suppose, the administrative burden that's being put on these school districts. It's it's a mess, it really is.
SPEAKER_01It is, and and what uh what a lot of people don't realize in public education, the dollars that are sent to schools are put in restrictive accounts. So you can only use those dollars for certain things. So for example, if you um some schools are getting fifteen hundred dollars a day in extra dollars because of the um school meal program, because there's only there's no cost to the schools, but then they get reimbursed, so they're actually those there's a surplus in that lunch account, but they can't apply that to anything else. So they're sitting here with this surplus in their lunch account, but they're laying off staff and social workers because they can't transfer the dollars.
SPEAKER_03It's insanity.
SPEAKER_01It's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_03Okay. It's just like laughable. I didn't even know that. Well, there one other like education-related topic that we've talked about a lot here at American Experiment, and I know you know something about because I think you're the author of the repeal ethnic studies. I am. Bill, okay. We've pushed this a lot and talked about it a lot, how radical this ethnic studies strand is in um in education in our schools. Will you talk a little bit about why you decided to support that bill?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so uh okay, again, you know, with everything there's a logical argument. We all agree that we should be learning about diversity, cultures, um different uh geographic uh locations around the earth. No question there. Right. Um I think our our strength is learning about other other groups and other individuals. However, the ethnic mandate, the ethnic studies mandate, puts this strand into everything. Right. So you you might have to do this in your FIEAD class, or you might, you know, it's it's leveraged across the board, and then it's just not done well. And then if you look at the the agenda behind this and the groups that have pushed it, they have said on their websites that they really want to put in these radical agendas. So rather than okay, we all went to school. I don't know, you guys are pretty young. You're probably hopefully you're not still in school.
SPEAKER_03No, no, we're gonna be able to do that. They were talking earlier about fourth grade.
SPEAKER_01But um, you know, we had social studies teachers who understood how to present this information and talk about it. And when they didn't, you know, the ones that I had, when we didn't know things, you learned from other individuals. You maybe had classmates or you got to know families in college. So pushing agendas without letting that natural curiosity and letting our teachers be the expert, that that's really just bad policy.
SPEAKER_02Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It's frustrating because it's such a blatant, baitant switch that was pushed on on Minnesota families with this. Because ethnic studies, you're right, sounds so benign and easy to support because of course we should be learning about other cultures and heritages, and of course we should learn about the good and bad of our history. And that's just not what it is when it comes down to it. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_01Right. And if you look at the groups that pushed this, and there was a couple of them, uh some national groups, right on their websites. They're they're talking about things that are are very radical and and very left-based with no real research behind it. It's just about pushing their agenda.
SPEAKER_02Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, yeah. It is indoctrination and it is it is not only imparting a certain type of knowledge onto kids, it's then telling them to go out and be activists in their communities.
SPEAKER_01That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. Meanwhile, a lot of kids in our schools can't read at grade level, can't do math at grade level. Do you think what you're doing in the legislature right now, like pushing for school choice, is that a solution to the things that kids are struggling with right now in Minnesota? Because I see a lot of talk around education and not always people talking about what I think is the number one issue that is our students aren't doing as well as they should be.
SPEAKER_01Right. Right. And there's a lot of factors to why why students are struggling, why we see some of our scores being pulled back. Part of it is our schools are just being asked to do too much. And that's that's hard. But the other thing is let's go back to uh the nuclear family, right? We we start with the parents and the and the child. That's the first place we have to start, and we have to give them options and we have to set them up for success. And right now, I think in too many school districts, um especially in the in in the Twin Cities Metro, when you get closer inside um inside the suburbs, you see that it's really, really difficult because the there's just not the options. Or if they want to go to charter schools or they want to go to uh a private school, you know, we're finding ways to lock them out, as you said. It it doesn't matter what your economic status is, you should have the best educational opportunity available and we should help you get there. And I just don't think that's happening. Um I I'll be the first to to tell you I think there's amazing public school teachers and I think there's amazing public schools. It should be a good choice. But we should elevate them along with the non-public so that we have a very diverse and very, very um competitive educational environment. That's what makes us better.
SPEAKER_02Now you chair uh an education committee at the uh Capitol uh in St. Paul. This year has been a little different because you have to share the gavel. It's a tied house. What has that been like?
SPEAKER_01Uh it's it it it's um it it's a lot more conversations. I'm a co-chair, and um so yes, half the meetings are mine, half the meetings are the DFL. There's been times when we've worked really well across the aisle, and then there's been times when it hasn't. I I think the most difficult part of this is there's just a lot more conversations that have to happen to move things. And sometimes, uh like right now, the governor can dig his heels in and everything can just come to a halt. Um which you know that's okay. The the place was not designed to pass bills, we should slow down. But that co-chair um that doesn't allow us to get clear paths. And so that's that's just been a challenge we've had to work through. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean the legislature not doing anything is certainly not the worst outcome, you know, like that in my opinion. Well, let's go to our final topic, which is that you're retiring this year. And I would love to know, looking back, what would you consider um your favorite thing you've done at your time in the legislature, your biggest accomplishment?
SPEAKER_01Wow. Um that's a great question. I so I have so I have some ones that I can point to, some big ones like we have a brand new military museum that's gonna go up in Little Falls. Oh yes. That should come alive in that. But you know, so we look to these things that we've done that we've built, but I will tell you the two bills that I'm most proud of. Um I'll start with number the second one, then I'll go to the first one. The number two bill that I'm most proud of is I was a chief author and I stopped the um uh fight against Israel for uh um sanctions at that time. They were doing the um sanctions to try to uh uh not are sanctions against Israel. So not to work with Israeli companies. Right. And so we put it in statute that BDS, what did they call it?
SPEAKER_03BDS, yeah. Divest and say this is a whole movement.
SPEAKER_01Now they've moved on to just Yeah, so I passed that original legislation, that was great. It was uh a big supporter of of of that. And then the the most proud bill that I am is there was a 13-year-old girl that came to me and she was nine at the time, came from a very abusive home. What I didn't know because I was working uh in child protection legislation was if you come from an abused situation and you want to terminate the parental rights of your parents because it's so bad, the parent gets free counsel. The child does not.
SPEAKER_00What?
SPEAKER_01So I put it into statute that the child now gets counsel. So if you were in this and it was a really tough situation, it was so now those children have access to counsel to fight their parents in those termination.
SPEAKER_03That's amazing. So the child was up against the parents and their lawyer. That's really cool.
SPEAKER_01And what was happening with this this abusive, this this it was just an amazing girl. It was called her name was McKenna, it was McKenna's Law. Her she was protecting her and her brothers and sisters from a very abusive father and what was going on. But what happened is because he could get parental rights, they kept having to come back into that home. So she got legal counsel to be able to terminate that and yeah, so and then set the path for kids down the road. Just an amazing, very courageous kid.
SPEAKER_02That is amazing. Uh, any future plans, or are you just sliding into retirement sunny days on a Minnesota beach somewhere?
SPEAKER_01Well, no. Part of what happens is we all have a shelf life, and I've accomplished as much as I can accomplish. Um, it's time for other people to come in, step up, and do good work. So I'm I'm gonna move on. I have uh our first grandchild. Um so I I have to have fun with him. Eli is six months, and um, yeah, just a wonderful growing I as I mentioned, I had four daughters and a son, so I have five kids and they're all entering their adult life, and I now get to go to their homes and mess things up and then leave.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, love that. That's that's what my parents are doing right now, too.
SPEAKER_02They love that life. Well, Rob Krisha, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your years of service in the Minnesota legislature, and uh, and we'd we'd love to have you back before you were tenor, if possible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I really enjoyed the conversation. This is great. You you do a wonderful job here. Thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much to everyone who made it all the way to the end of this week's episode of the American Experiment Podcast.
SPEAKER_03Don't forget to answer our question of the week in our YouTube comments. Preferably, has our education system improved over Governor Walls' tenure? Let us know. What's your experience? Have you seen improvements in some areas and not in others? Or do you think overall it's been kind of a mess? Let us know.
SPEAKER_02And of course, do not miss another episode of the show. Make sure you are subscribed, you are downloading episodes, you have notifications turned on. And as always, stay sane, stay safe out there, and we will see you next week.
