Episode 137 - Taxpayer-Funded Trans Dolls for Minnesota KIDS?!

The latest instance of the nation talking about absurd news in Minnesota...

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Join us as we break down the viral national story on Minnesota’s transgender dolls for kids, tell you about how the Trump administration is delivering on its immigration promises, and get to the root of why Minnesota has had average population growth but below-average job growth for years. On the back half, Jon Justice joins us to give you a special preview of his newly re-launched daily live show.

QOTW: What would you do if your child came home from school with one of these trans-dolls?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome back to the American Experiment Podcast. Catherine, what do we have on the docket today? Well, this week we'll break down the viral national story on Minnesota's transgender dolls for kids, tell you about how the Trump administration is delivering on its immigration promises, and get to the root of why Minnesota has had average population growth, but below average job growth for years. On the back half, John Justice joins us to give you a special preview of his newly relaunched daily live show.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Let's dive in. If this is your first time joining us, welcome. Things are pretty crazy here in Minnesota, and we try to bring you a more sane perspective and take on things. As always, I am Grace Keating here with Catherine Johnson.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Uh this week our audience question relates to the fact that things are always pretty crazy here in Minnesota. For some reason, um we always seem to be hitting the national news, and I don't know exactly why that is, but this weekend it was about these weird transgender dolls. It's gonna be our top story, but our question while you're listening, think about it and then head over onto our YouTube page and answer in the comments. Our question for you is what would you do if your child or your grandchild came home with one of these paper dolls in his or her backpack?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Now, before we get into all that, I do want to just take a moment and say thank you to everyone who came up and said hi at our America 250 block party this last Saturday. It was so great meeting and talking with so many of you. Uh, as you might have remembered, you know, we sort of took up the mantle of hosting an America 250 celebration here in Minnesota because, you know, the Walls administration certainly is not going to do anything to mark this occasion. Apparently, we just learned that Walls has even stopped issuing official state proclamations uh conveniently just in time to avoid doing one on July 4th to mark the 250th birthday. I think that his most recent proclamation, at least which is available online, was on July 3rd to celebrate Ethiopian Independence Day, which I I truth is stranger than fiction sometimes. That's all I'm gonna say. You cannot make this up.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Okay, I would like to say that I am in favor of like stopping the proclamations. I feel like the proclamation there's too many proclamations. I mean, Ethiopian Independence Day, like great. Um what does it have to do with Minnesota? Why are we proclaiming on Minnesota, you know, the joy of Ethiopian Independence Day? I don't I don't know that it makes any sense. But the fact that that was the last one on July 3rd, and then it was the 250th anniversary of our independence here in America, and they decided no more proclamations is so it's just it has to be funny. So you are anti-proclamation in general. I'm anti-proclamation. I'm also anti-the half, the flag being half staff for every minor cause imaginable. Like everything in the world, the flag goes half staff. And I there's also, okay, another facet of this is like the honorary days, like honorary bluebity bloop day. Like that's that's nice. Like that's great, but we have enough. We have plenty. Exactly. And now our flag is never flying beautifully in the air. It is like always half-staffed because there's always something happening around the country. Of course there is, but let's get back to like the main, the main core things that it was meant for. I feel like proclamations fall into that category. So I'm fine with it, you know, being gone, but the irony there is really something.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Really hurts. Uh, Saturday, of course, was also the day that our good friend John Justice announced that his show will be continuing right here at American Experiment. Uh, stick around for the back half of this episode. You're gonna get the full details from John himself. Uh, but we, of course, are super excited to about that partnership, and we have loved uh, you know, announcing that on Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Yeah, people have been asking us ever since, you know, his show went off the air. What is he gonna do? What is he gonna do? You know, we miss hearing you guys that people miss Freedom Friday. I miss Freedom Friday so much. Um, we are so happy that he is back. He's back and he's with American Experiment, and you guys should absolutely check out the show live every morning from six to nine and also wherever you get your podcasts if you are unable to listen live.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

With that, we should probably dive into our first story, which is a doozy. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Yeah, you know, it's it's it's something that broke over the weekend nationally, like went all over X, um, like crazy. And it's frankly so sick and weird that I don't really want to talk about it, but we have to because it's all over the internet and everyone was talking about it. And of course, it's right here in Minnesota because we so often, for some reason, are the vector of like everything weird and creepy that happens in the world. So here's the headline that went viral. This is from um the New York Post. Taxpayer funded trans dolls with removable genitalia to hit classrooms this fall for kids as young as four to learn about different options. Yeah, so the paper dolls uh that this article's about, called My Gender Dolls, were developed by the University of Minnesota Medical School. Specifically, two professors who are part of their Institute for Sexual and Gender Health. The New York Post reported that the paper dolls have gender-neutral names like Sam, Avery, Rory, and Parker, and have removable internal and external genitals, along with more than a hundred interchangeable pieces of clothing, accessories, and hairstyles, kind of like a trans Mr. Potato Head, they added.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

One of the things you know people are talking about is it they they say taxpayer-funded trans dolls. Um, it's hard to tell how much taxpayer money went to this project exactly. It's been in development for like since 2020 at least. So I've been working on this for a long time. Um, but the research budget for the Institute for Sexual and Gender Health was 1.4 million last year. And the medical school overall has been receiving 15 million annually from the state, earmarked to increase the medical school's research capacity and ensure its national prominence.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

I mean, I just think a dollar spent on this is too much. I'd just like to interject. Like, yes, I do want to know how much over what period of time, but like any amount going towards this is too much, in my opinion. Precisely.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

And this isn't actually a news story. Like I said, this has been in development for a while. We've known about the Creepy Doll project for years, and in 2025, the Upper Midwest Law Center actually tried to look into the funding for this project in particular to see if there were taxpayer dollars being used here, and they haven't gotten anywhere with these requests, and neither has anyone else. So we still don't really know about that element of it. But I feel like it is safe to assume that some amount of taxpayer funding, at the very least, is going towards the salaries of these professors who are working on this project. When reached uh by the post, a university spokesperson claimed no public funds were used to support My Gender Dolls commercialization efforts. Wait a minute, wait a minute, commercialization. So are they making money off of these? They're trying to now. Oh the gosh. But when pressed on how much taxpayer money went into research and development of the dolls and to the salaries of the professors involved in the project, the university refused to answer. So yeah, uh the dolls are supposed to be coming in 2026, this year, at some point, for um for sale to therapists and educators, is kind of who they're um trying to get to to purchase these dolls. But in the meantime, I think a lot of us had hoped that the project had died because in 2024, few of them actually scrubbed like a bunch of information about the project from their website. They knew this was gonna blow up. Can you can just they were not gonna cancel it, but they were they knew this was gonna make big news. Well, the College Fix, to their credit, a place where both Grace and I have written when we were younger, a great publication, was one of the first on this story back in 2024 talking about it. And in response, yeah, they pulled down a bunch of stuff on the website, including an article that contained this quote from Diane Berg, a co-creator of the project and a professor at the U of M. Kids can use the dolls to represent themselves by layering on different hairstyles, clothing, and accessories, as well as internal reproductive organs and external genitalia. These additions of reproductive organs and genitalia are key, and they make these dolls unique. It's really important to address the belief I'm not a real boy because I don't have these private parts, versus I am a real boy, whatever my anatomy looks like. It's about helping children develop tools to cope with messages in society that could lead to shame. A lot to unpack there.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

It is so interesting, because I I think I saw someone saying this online that, you know, you've got this law that's taking effect in Minnesota right now, this, you know, anti-grooming for minors law. And how does this intersect with that? Because when you're getting to a point where you're introducing these topics in schools and you can get into a situation where you have, you know, maybe a child psychologist or a school therapist, a support professional, you know, talking to very, very young children who might be upset, might be confused about, you know, who they are, as many children are, um, and they present this as the solution. They hand the kid these, you know, these dolls with interchangeable body parts and say, you know, this is why you're upset, and this is the answer is to someday have this surgically changed on yourself. At what point does this become grooming in some fashion?

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Yes, exactly. That's such a good point. And it's children as young as four. As young as four. That is crazy to introduce this as an idea to a kid who is four years old. And I mean, a good example of this is in that same article that they took down from their website, where a therapist, Elizabeth Panetta, has found the My Gender dolls really valuable in their work with kids.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Oh, see, and see, that's what makes me nervous. I mean, clearly this is designed to present transgender ideology to kids at the earliest possible stage of life. Uh, it seems to me, with or without the parents' knowledge or consent. And that's where it gets to be really concerning, is parents are being completely cut out of this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Exactly. And here's the other thing. She went on to say, excuse me, um, she's going by Vay in this article, but I mean her name's Elizabeth, so I'm busy. She was she goes on to say, quote, we were able to explore and brainstorm not just what our bodies are able to do now, but what we want our bodies to do and look like in the future. Okay, dystopian? Yeah. What in the world? And I again, you're totally right, Grace. And it's especially creepy and insidious because are they also going to teach these kids that it's not as easy as swapping out genitals on a paper doll? Right. In fact, it's not as easy, it's not as convenient, it's not as comfortable. I mean, the the impacts of gender reassignment surgery are huge. And we've seen all of these cases of side effects that are life-changing. Are they gonna tell these kids, you know, you you can theoretically do this, but you might be infertile, you might never be able to have your own kids, or look at some of the detransitioners who have spoken out and said, I removed my breasts and now I am a mother who has a daughter and cannot breastfeed her. I mean, that will just that hurts my soul. You know, you look at what these people are saying. Look at the effects that this has had on people, and instead, they're being reduced to these paper dolls as if it's this easy to simply switch around body parts and make whatever kind of body you want for yourself. It's not that easy, and teaching kids that it is that easy is extremely dangerous and will only lead to very negative consequences for them down the line if they actually uh pro go after wanting to have these procedures.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

That's the problem. You're absolutely right. It is incredibly misleading and it is very clearly omitting all of the dangerous and real side effects that come of these surgeries. And again, they're pitching it to kids as young as four years old. That is so yeah, it just it just makes my heart hurt. It really does. Um thinking of, I mean, this is entering what, Minnesota environments in 2026, you said?

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Yes, it's it's uh yeah, it's hitting the market for uh for sale in 2026, supposedly. It is coming soon. You can sign up for the list on their website if you want to be notified when you can buy these dolls. But yeah, the idea that switching your shirt and switching your genitals is the same thing is um obviously completely false and laughable, and teaching kids that is absurd. Do we know if they're hitting schools specifically this year? So it's interesting because that is something that people really focused on was the idea that this was going to be in classrooms. But maybe one note of optimism is I really didn't find evidence of that. I mean, yes, a teacher could buy these in theory and want to introduce them. It seems like therapists are the ones who have already been utilizing them in their practice. Um, they did publicly run some uh like group studies where they asked kids, yeah, like five to ten years old to come play with them. But I don't see any evidence personally that they're actually gonna show up in schools unless you had a teacher who really wanted to introduce them and place them in their classroom, they could totally go on their own and do that. But I don't think systematically it's going to happen. Now, we have reason to be concerned because the U of M and other parts of its um university are coming up with curriculum for Minnesota schools, right? We see the Ridges curriculum that's being recommended for our new social studies teaching. And that has elements of like sexual health in there and stuff too. So the idea that these things could cross over and enter into that suggested curriculum is not far-fetched. But as of right now, I couldn't find it in my research, thankfully.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

This does seem like another reminder, too, of how important school board elections are and how important it is to know the candidates in your area, know where they stand on issues like this, because when at the end of the day, they are probably going to be very involved in decisions like this as to whether, you know, dolls like these end up in classrooms.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Yeah, and if you have a curriculum board at your school board, uh, join often, you know, school boards have curriculum boards that come up with choose the curriculum, join it if it's if it's open to you in your area, because yeah, this is uh this is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Now, we do tend to cover a lot of bad news on this show, I would say. This is probably one of the less, you know, less optimistic stories in general. Not really proud of. It's up there with depressing mists, I would say. We thought we'd try to include a more positive or maybe even uplifting story uh on this week's show. Uh David Zimmer was writing this week at americanexperiment.org about how there has been such a concerted effort uh from the left, but especially from the media, to portray the immigration efforts, as you know, of the Trump administration in the most negative light possible. And that has looked like, you know, sort of cherry-picking data points or um, in other cases, just ignoring the good work that the administration has been doing at the border. And so David Zimmer thought he would sit down and actually dig into the numbers and see where the administration stands right now on its goals of, you know, securing our border, cutting back on illegal immigration, and getting as many, you know, dangerous criminal illegal aliens out of our country as possible. And he opened up this article that he posted kind of going back to the very start of the Trump administration. And he pulled this quote from, you know, Borders are Tom Homan back in January 2025 for the sole purpose of saying, you know, that the administration has been very clear all along in what its goals and its priorities have been when it comes to immigration enforcement. You know, uh he made it clear almost immediately after Trump took office that the administration's priority is on public safety and national security threats, but there will, there will be, and there has been clearly collateral arrests of illegal aliens who don't have criminal histories as agents are carrying out their immigration enforcement duties, which is obviously a huge part of what we saw here in Minnesota, especially in cities and in states, he goes on to say that have embraced sanctuary policies that shield illegal aliens from apprehension by federal agents. All of this should be bringing very true to you as a Minnesotan if you have been following any of the national news here in our state in the last, you know, eight months. I think Homan's exact quote was if you're in the country illegally, you have a problem. And so I I think I was struck especially by um just how consistent they have been in their messaging, how clear how closely they've stuck with that over the last year and a half, because that is one of the uh criticisms I've heard uh you know leveled at the administration of you know, having their priorities shift is what people say. Or they said they were only gonna go after the you know the criminal illegal aliens and not pick up anyone else. And that's that's obviously not the case. Aaron Powell Yeah, that's definitely what the media has tried to do.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Well, they've definitely tried to make it this narrative that they haven't been successful as well. You know, that there just haven't been that many people deported or that many criminals deported, or the people that have been deported are so you know, and I think some of this has been um, you know, the media amplifies these these messages that are inconsistent and it makes you think that the Trump administration has been inconsistent. When in reality, from what I'm seeing, it seems like actually, uh, yeah, they've been pretty consistent in their messaging.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

If you're here illegally, you might get deported. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So David Zimberge spent some time actually digging into the arrest, detention, and border encounter data from the end of the Biden administration with data from the first year and a half of the Trump administration, and his findings are pretty interesting. First of all, border encounters dropped by 75% between 2024 and 2025, and that drop has continued into this year. Now, he thinks this is due to two pretty big reasons. One is the government enforcing a quote stay in Mexico policy on asylum claims. So we're not letting people into the country while we're still evaluating their claims or appeals for asylum. And then the other reason would be ending the catch and release practices that were going on at the border for so, so long. That has, he thinks, led to this huge drop in border encounters.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

And now we get into comparing the 24 and 2026 data, actually, is what we're looking at here. In 2024, end of the Biden administration, we had 278,000 individuals booked into ICE detention facilities. In 2026, we had 354,000 individuals booked. So far, this is only, I mean, we're in we're in July right now. So many, many more individuals. In 2024, 35% of them had a criminal history or a pending criminal charge. This year, 60%, nearly double two years ago, have a criminal history or a pending criminal charge. So if anything, the Trump administration has increased the share of criminal illegal aliens or illegal aliens who are being held at these facilities who actually have a criminal charge on file. I would never have guessed that from the way the media has been covering this.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

No, me neither. Also, that raises more questions for me about like why were there so many criminal illegal aliens running about the country in the past and we just didn't care? Like, why weren't we prioritizing this? It seems like that's the one thing everyone can get on board with. You know, like get the criminal illegal aliens out of here, but even under Joe Biden, that wasn't part of their policy? Clearly not.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

In 2024, 55%, so a little over half of the 278,000 individuals booked into ICE detention facilities were released for removal. Quote. So a little over half. In 2026, again, this year, so far, this is just so far this year, it's July, 82% have been released for removal. So many, many more, many, many more of these individuals in ICE detention facilities are getting removed. And then the last stat I wanted to share with you in 2024, end of Biden administration, 21%, a fifth, a fifth of the people in these ICE detention facilities were, quote, paroled into the US.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Oh, to just walk around and just hang out. So they're no longer in the detention facilities, they're just like roaming about Minnesota or wherever.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

I'm sure they were following the terms of their parole, you know, very, very closely. Right. 21%. This year, 2026, less than half a percent have been paroled. 0.4%. So putting all of that data together, I think it's fair to say that during the first 18 months of this second Trump administration, they have done an incredible job at securing the border and at kicking the people out of our country who they have said from the beginning they were going to be kicking out. So if you are someone, as I'm sure many of you watching are or listening are, who voted for this new administration with the hope that we would once again have a secure border and take our borders seriously and kick out the people who came here illegally and have been taking advantage of the generosity of the American taxpayer. If you're one of the people who voted for this administration for that reason, I think that you can, you know, rest easy at night.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Yeah, absolutely. There's always, you know, negativity being driven by the other side, by me the media, like we talked about. Um, but it's good to look at the actual data and see where we're winning. And a lot of times I think people on the right get very doomsday about things like, oh, we should be doing so much more, we should be doing so much better. And it's sometimes good to have that, you know, attitude about things. Yeah, we always can be doing more and doing better in in whatever we do. But take the wins as they come. There are a lot of immigration-related wins here that we've seen under this administration that are really worth celebrating, I think.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Yeah, it when you look at the numbers, this administration has dramatically increased the number of illegal aliens detained within the US. Detained within the US, including a larger percentage of detainees who are criminal offenders, and at the same time have decreased the number of legal aliens paroled into the US compared to the final years of the Biden administration. I think that is absolutely worth celebrating.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Yeah, that's huge. Because those people that are paroled often, we never hear from ever again, and um there's no way to track them down. So yeah, that's a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

The last topic we wanted to touch on today before we go over to our back half interview with, of course, John Justice. Uh you might remember from, I think it was last week's episode, we were talking about how Minnesota had once again, for some reason, topped CNBC's ranking of, you know, best states for business. According to them, you know, Minnesota's the fifth best place in the country to do business. I think we were all a little skeptical of that here.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Yeah, and their reasoning was like we had lax abortion policies. Like, sure. And that attracts young people. Okay.

unknown 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah. Even setting aside the outrageous criteria. That they use for those rankings. And if you do want the full breakdown, I believe it was last week's episode, so 135, you can go back and check out that full conversation. But John Phelan, one of our two economists here at American Experiment, of course, started digging into our actual economic data data here in Minnesota, comparing it always through that lens of are we really the fifth best state in the country for business? And so he was digging into our job employment numbers. And he pulled out some stats that I wanted to share with you guys today. First of all, Minnesota's job growth since 2018 has been less than one-third the national rate. So not off to a very good start. Again, you've got this weird boosterism you see in Minnesota where we think that we're doing so great, we're doing better than the rest of the country, especially when it comes to our economy. You know, we've got 3M, we've got General Mills, we've got these great companies here. Uh, but it's just not the case anymore. We are now, you know, we're falling behind the national, the rest of the country, basically.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Yeah, absolutely. You think of are we attracting new companies? Are we attracting growth? Are we keeping our small businesses? I mean, if you talk to anyone who owns a business, they're not so happy in Minnesota right now. So, yeah, how do we end up uh in the top five on some of these lists? Well, when you actually dig into the data, you see why that doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

So job growth since 2018 has been less than one-third the national rate. Our unemployment rate as a state is down to 4.4%, which is still above the national rate. And by the way, if you want sources on any of this data, John Phelan has it listed all at his article at americanexperiment.org.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

By the way, shout out to the people on like Facebook or whoever who are like, these girls don't even cite their sources. Almost every single story we read is off of AmericanExperiment.org, and you can go find the sources there. But we don't sit here and like read a bibliography or whatever. That would not be fun for anyone. Yeah, so okay, and we especially don't clip it for, you know, Facebook. Just FYI for the haters out there.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Um now, our state's unemployment stats can be broken down further to examine specifically what is called the civilian non-institutional population, which is essentially anyone living in Minnesota who's not in prison or another like long-term group living arrangement. So since 2018, that group, the civilian non-institutional population, grew by five and a half percent, or about 230,000 people, which is like basically in the middle nationally. We're very average on that stat. But our employment stats only grew by two and a half percent, so about 70,000. Which must mean, as John Phelan writes at americanexperiment.org, that a huge part of our population growth is being driven by people who are either unemployed or who aren't in the labor force at all. And the numbers confirm it. The numbers confirm it. The share of Minnesota's population that is either unemployed or out of the labor force completely has increased by 11.5% since 2018. And that is more than in 32 other states. You can also compare this trend in Minnesota with the rest of the country more generally, just as a little comparison. While 48% of new entrants into the United States' population since 2018 have gone into employment. In Minnesota, just 29% have. So we're taking in more people, but fewer and fewer are actually entering the labor force and getting jobs, which is kind of mystifying. And if you put all of this together, cut together, all of this data together, our state's potential labor force, that civilian, non-institutional population, is growing at a very average rate compared to the rest of the country. But it looks like, according to these numbers, that Minnesota is doing a below average job of generating jobs for them. So again, once again, are we really the fifth best state in the country for business? Really? What do you think is going on here?

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Well, I find a couple things interesting in this, and maybe I can suggest a theory based on a couple other things we know. Not endorsed by our economists necessarily, just endorsed by me, Catherine. But I mean, like, think about it. If we're increasing our population of people to some degree, but not increasing the workforce, what might be happening there? Is it possible that, I mean, and take another data point we know to be true, which is that in Minnesota, we're getting the most people in the lowest income bracket, right? So we're losing a ton of people, and I think we're losing people in every income bracket except the lowest one. Is it possible that we're gaining people in Minnesota who immediately enroll in our very generous welfare programs and then call it a day and they never even enter the workforce whatsoever? I mean, wouldn't that answer some of the questions brought up here? I think it would make sense. I also think it makes sense if there's not as many jobs available because we do have a high base here that employers have to match if you want to hire people. I mean, again, we have a very generous welfare state. If it's going to be beneficial for someone to get a job instead of just be on welfare, well, our employers have to match and increase that rate. So I don't know. That's my theory. I think that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

It is also interesting taken through the lens of, you know, we know that people were coming to Minnesota from other states, specifically with the intent to commit fraud. You know, we have what you can call fraud tourism is the term that we use at American Experiment. Um I think it's very possible that people come here specifically, if not to defraud our welfare programs, to take advantage of them just by being here. I think that's very possible.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Right. Just knowing that it's easier to get welfare benefits here than in a lot of other states. We have very few requirements. You can um have many family members on our welfare program. I mean, it makes sense. I don't know. Drop what you guys think in the comments. Do you have uh do you think otherwise? Do you have data that indicates maybe I'm right or maybe I'm wrong?

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Let me know. I'm open to the discussion. Now we're gonna sit down with, of course, our friend John Justice, who is going to share all the details about his new show here at American Experiment. Stay tuned. American Experiment is supported by thousands of individuals like you. To join the movement, go to www.americanexperiment.org and click the yellow donate button. From all of us here, thank you. We are so excited to be joined in studio today by John Justice, host, of course, of the John Justice show presented by American Experiment. John, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Thank you so much for uh for having me. It's fun to be on this on this side of things and not in the hosting position. So uh thank you so much for having me on the show this week.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Well, first of all, of course, tell our listeners where they can find your new show. Where can they hear you?

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah, so we're back uh live Monday through Friday, 6 until uh 9 a.m. You can listen directly at AmericanExperiment.org. You can also download the free uh Mix LR app. I don't think a lot of people have heard of this before, but um a lot of people got rid of the other app, so now you can replace it. Uh M-I-X-L-R app, and you can watch the show every single morning on um the Center the American Experiment uh X feed, uh Facebook and YouTube as well. And uh the videos of the show will be posted uh across all those platforms. Podcasts are available and also up on uh Rumble as well if you want to watch. If you're on Rumble and you want to watch there.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

I had so much fun this morning. We were recording this on Monday. This morning was your first ever live show. I had so much fun. I watched on X and got to see all of the visuals. I was watching with thousands of other people. I absolutely loved it. So um I'm very excited for everything that is to come with this show. But I think we wanted to back up a little bit and talk about just your journey to how you ended up here at American Experiment with us, John, going all the way back to how you got into radio because you have it seems like such a natural fit for you. You have the voice for radio, you have, you know, the the just this presence that I think fits so well with your job. So, how did you know that this was gonna be a good fit for you and what drew you to the profession originally?

SPEAKER_00 29:40

So I'll try to do the really quick version because we could sit here for another four hours as I go through the uh now going on actually, it is 30 years that I've been doing uh radio. So um I was a in the um in the mid-90s, I was a public real estate auctioneer in Los Angeles and Orange County, California. And uh driving around doing housing inspections and uh also uh auctioning off foreclosed uh homes and high rises in uh in Southern California. I heard an advertisement for the Academy of Radio Broadcasting and was looking to make a change because I didn't want to do what I was doing as a career, and I ended up going to the Academy of Radio Broadcasting and initially got in to radio to be a music DJ. Um and the first eight years that's what I did. I hosted morning and afternoon music shows, but um, it really wasn't I I wasn't great at it. I was working with a partner for a while. We had hosted a fairly successful show, and we had the opportunity once to host on an FM talk show. And we did a week's worth of fill-in shows on that show. And I remember I'll never forget we were still hosting a radio show together, and he came to me and said, You know what, you're a lot better at this talk radio thing than you are working on the music station. And it took me by, I was like sort of befuddled. It's like, well, thank you for the compliment, but I'm doing a show with you for crying out loud, right? On a music station. Um series of events unfolded, and we ended up parting ways from each other. And once we did, I made the transition into news talk. Um, I did uh some some fill-in work in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and then I ended up in uh Tucson, Arizona for nine years hosting a show there. Um met my uh my former co-host and best friend who we tragically lost in 2022, Drew Lee. He had hired me in Tucson, and he left and came up here about three after about three years after we got together. And uh subsequently I followed him here. Um and of course, as I mentioned, no, he he tragically passed away in 2022. So uh I'd been co-hosting and hosting the show here in the Twin Cities uh for the past 10 years. Um now to the point of how we all arrived here and and this show, um, radio's volatile, and I firmly believe that we're watching a major transition right now in terrestrial radio. And I had a plan in the back of my mind all along that if I ever did lose my job, um, that I would try to venture off and do something on my own and take what I was doing off of terrestrial radio and bring it to the modern online world. And, you know, that's a that's a big leap to take that I would have even have liked to have taken prior to what happened with my previous employer, but I just never had the means to do so. Um it really was a it really was a gift. I believe that everything happens for a reason. Um, and uh my wife takes credit for encouraging me to invite both of you on my show, uh to which I absolutely agreed. We wanted some more voices on the previous show. Um, we were both fans of what you guys were doing with the with the podcast, and um, you both were such an amazing addition to the show on a weekly basis, and we, of course, developed a relationship through that. And so when I was unceremoniously let go from the previous employer, uh, I thought, all right, now's the time to make the transition. I had a vision for what I wanted to do, but I knew I couldn't do it alone. And the first group that I reached out to was Center of the American Experiment. Um, you know, I had a somewhat of a relationship with John Hinderrocker, of course. I had a relationship with you guys in the time that we worked together and thought if there's any organization that is going to realize and understand what I wanted to do, it's probably gonna be Center of the American Experiment. And I am, I feel so blessed to say that I was that I was right. John shared in the vision that I had, and within a really incredibly short period of time, um, we were able to lock to to lock it to lock this down and to to make it happen. And it's been an absolute blessing, uh, leading right on up to the debut uh show today after a couple of dry run episodes. And I just I couldn't be happier with uh how things have uh progressed, the work that everybody has put into making this happen, and having the first show under our belt. I mean, it's everything that I could have wanted and more. And that is not something that you know radio hosts get to say very, very often.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Well, and we're so grateful for this partnership that's developed. As you said, that started with Catherine and I joining, you know, Freedom Fridays months and months and months ago, and that has now grown into this, into this new production. Uh we're so I think we feel very excited and very grateful on our on our end as well. But yeah, it was very jarring to wake up one morning, and we've heard this from tons of your listeners, of course, um, and go to turn on the show like they've done every day for years and years and years, and all of a sudden you're just you're off the air. Uh have you been hearing like that? Things like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And it's a difficult thing, it's a difficult, weird thing as a host because you're not given the opportunity to say goodbye. Right. Yeah. Um, and I had some constraints uh just because of unknowns regarding legalities and things like that, even when I was let go, to where I didn't have the ability to reach out to people to say, hey, you know, I want to, I I yeah, I'm I'm not planning on going anywhere. I just don't know how I'm going to how I'm going to to do it yet. Um so yeah, I I I know what it's like personally when I have uh shows that I listen to and they're not posting like a podcast on. I've had it happen with you guys before when when there's been a delay in the in the Tuesday American Experiment podcast. I'm going, why isn't the podcast up yet? You know, yeah, you know, thankfully I have the luxury I can text either of you and go and and go and ask you. So I I know what it's like for a listener who has you know committed and been a supporter of a show to find the individual and the voice they listen to every day is is gone. And it's the same thing, it's the same thing for me. I don't have the ability and didn't have the ability to go and talk to everybody the way that I did. And that's not an easy, relatively speaking, it's not an easy thing to uh to do. So um I'm so pleased though at the response so far. And even just uh, you know, after the first show, it seems like, okay, yeah, you know, people are, you know, people have heard us, we've been letting them know what's going on, and they arrived in droves for that first show.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Yeah, uh you talk about um terrestrial radio, which I think is so funny. Like, I don't even terrestrial, yeah, of course it's dying. It's called terrestrial radio, you know? I mean, that's just like sounds so antiquated. But anyway, um, you talk about how this is maybe a dying industry. Do you think that this is what's next? Because you've chosen to do still a live show, but also a podcast. You know, we have a podcast here and and we love it, it's weekly, but it doesn't have that live element. Do you think there's something like why did you decide to do that live element? And do you think that this is kind of the next frontier, or what should we look for coming to replace radio?

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Well, because it I wanted to do the live element because a lot of people are doing podcasts, and it's difficult to cut through the amount of content that's out there. I mean, that's part of the reason, a big part of the reason why radio is in the place that it is right now is because um you're competing with so many other available options to listen to every single morning. You know, and having been in the industry now for 30 years, I've seen, I've watched that transition. When I started, there was no such thing as streaming. So everybody would just go and listen to the radio signal. And I've slowly, and there was a reluctancy when that started. Like, do we really want people not listening to the to the terrestrial, you know, signal? Do we really want them going and listening to podcasts? What if they stopped listening to it? And we're kind of all sitting back going, no, that's where it's all going. Where is it going to lead? And what I think we're seeing right now within the terrestrial radio industry is something very similar to what we saw when it came to your over-the-air TV. Um, I think there may be a future for terrestrial radio down the line, but I think what you're seeing now is a transition and sort of this race to the bottom of corporate radio, um, where you end up seeing huge swaths of individuals getting laid off at a time. So back to your initial to your initial question, um, it was crucial to me that if I was going to venture out on my own, that I didn't just do a podcast, that I needed to have a live element, a way to interact with everybody every single day. And it was crucial to me because that's what that's what I want. I listen to tons of podcasts, but I want to listen to somebody live in the moment. I want to know that one I'm tuning into is genuine and authentic. That's not to say podcasts aren't, but podcasts can be curated and they can be edited and to give you the best thing possible. And that's what's that's a great aspect of them. But there is something about just that live element of when you're listening to something that cannot be replicated in any way, shape, or form. And uh, as you both know, it was not easy making this happen, you know, it's and uh, and we're still sort of on a learning curve. But I I do believe that this is where things are are going to are going to be heading. I think you're gonna see eventually a lot more shows uh that will leave terrestrial radio and they'll move to a live streaming, streaming for uh, you know, format. And then with that, of course, you do it we'll have a podcast to people that can't listen live because not everybody can, and that's why I like the the idea that we can super serve the person. You can listen multiple ways, you can watch multiple ways, you can do it live, you can do it after the fact, just giving as many people as many options as possible because people's interests and the way that they listen, it varies from person to person and it varies from day to day. So, and I feel like we've we've really been able to accomplish that in a very short period of time with this new uh with this new iteration of the John Justice show.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

So that is a question in my mind. I mean, clearly we've put you and our producer, of course, Isaac, have put a lot of time and effort into trying to recreate the feel of the the older show uh as much as possible with the live element, with you know, married with the podcast portion. Are there any changes coming to this new era of the John Justice show that you're excited about, though? New things, new cool things you can do now?

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Nothing that I can speak directly to because they're all gonna happen organically. I've already realized. So we've done three shows. We did two dry run shows uh last week uh that you can go and listen to or watch. And and you'll see, even with that, we had a couple of technical errors here here and there. And you know, you trust the audience's understanding that we're kind of getting our feet under us.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

I think you cut out the 45 minutes of dead dead air, right? So they don't have to sit through 45 minutes of silence. That was one hiccup.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Yeah, the uh the the fry the Friday show, yeah, got started. Well, I did a whole half hour and nobody heard it because the audio wasn't being fed, because we had a handful of people like yourselves who had the link and could listen live. So we were actually live both of those days. People just didn't know where to go and find us. And it's a good thing because people would not have been able to have uh to have heard me. But even doing today's show, I slowly began to sort of get myself out of the terrestrial radio mindset. I know that I'm working on three hours and I've got a flow that I want to have to the show, but before it was a very rigid show, you know, because you know you got to stop at the top of the hour. You gotta stop at this point in time. And with the way that we're doing it now. Sorry, show grew. With the way that we're doing the show now, I don't I have a lot more freedom. And I was already able to exercise that this morning. I had uh president of the Institute for Liberty on, my good friend and weekly host, our weekly guest, uh Andrew Langer, and Representative Tom Emmer. And it was really apparent when I was interviewing Emmer because Emmer gets, to his credit, really long-winded. And there were so many times on the other show where I got to cut him off, and I didn't want to cut him off because he's on a good train of thought, and I want to hear what he has to say. And this morning I'm like, you can go, dude. Just just just let it, you know, let it roll. And even at the end of the show, um, you know, I often found myself scrambling to cover a topic that I had promoted, but I couldn't because the show had to end at nine. And even this morning, we went past the end date. So there's gonna be things within the show that are gonna happen organically because of this new format that we have. And so again, long way to answer your question. Yeah, I'm really excited about what sort of organically ends up taking shape with the show over time.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

Well, we have had such a good time setting everything up here at American Experiment Studios. We were not ready to do the live, and we've gotten that all figured out. Isaac has has figured out all the technical bugs and things like that. It's been such a team effort. Of course, any undertaking like this um does cost money and resources. And at American Experiment, we are a nonprofit, which is different than any place you've probably worked before, John. And we are funded entirely by Minnesotans and people, um, even some people across the country who enjoy our um content, but mostly thousands of Minnesotans who choose to support the work we do. And if you like the fact that we were able to put John Justice back on the air, which he absolutely deserved, and we are so happy to have done here at American Experiment, we would love your support in doing that because all of these things are an undertaking. So to support the work that John and we are doing, go to AmericanExperiment.org slash John Justice show, and you will find a link to support the show there, and you will get a very cool exclusive John Justice hat with the new logo on the front if you donate $35 or more. So thank you everyone who's been able to support it so far. Like you said, John, the outpouring of support from people. I mean, you had an incredible base of listeners, and so it's an honor to have those people now also tuning in here at American Experiment. Um so thank you all for that support. We really appreciate it. And please, if you can, make a donation and get that very cool uh hat as a gift.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

John, thank you so much for coming on the American Experiment podcast today, and congratulations on your first day being back on air.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Thank you uh so much for having me, and thank you for all the support you've given uh the show. Uh certainly now with uh my being a partisan of the American Experiment and certainly uh beforehand. Um I I can't tell you how thrilled I was to be able to work with uh with all of you here. Uh and I I just couldn't be more excited. So uh so thank you. So go make a donation and get that get that hat. I know my wife did, so I think she made a donation to get a hat. So I told her she didn't have to, but she did anyway.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

So And once again you can catch the John Justice show presented by American Experiment Monday through Friday, live, 6 to 9 a.m. at AmericanExperiment.org. Thank you so much to everyone who made it all the way to the end of this week's episode of the American Experiment Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Remember to head on over to our YouTube page, click on this episode, and drop a comment. What would you do if one of these transgender dolls with the interchanging parts came home in your child or grandchild's backpack? Keeping in mind, I don't think this will happen to many people this coming fall, but if you have a rogue teacher, it's certainly a possibility. What would you do? I I don't know what I would do personally.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

I would raise hell. Yeah, I would raise hell. Yeah, yeah. I think that's a good answer. And as always, stay sane, stay safe out there, and we will see you next week.