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Season 4, Episode 16 Division III Coaches Huddle

• Kevin • Season 4 • Episode 16

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0:00 | 59:17

KP Sits Down with NCAA Division III men's volleyball coaches to discuss the 2026 NCAA men's volleyball season.  Joining KP is Glenn DeHaven (Juniata), Evin Giglio (Wentworth), Doug Burchett (Dominican) and Rob Wingert (Misericordia).  Also, Dan Ames of Aurora joined the podcast.

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SPEAKER_00

Well, KP here, and welcome to the Kevin Pratt Podcast. We have another great edition of the Coach's Huddle. We're going to go around and say harlows to all the coaches. We also are very excited to have the Aurora Aurora uh college coach, uh, the men's volleyball coach Dan Ames. Uh, he will be joining us and is doing some great things. We're gonna learn all about his program because Coach Doug is absent tonight. They have practice right now. Coach will get to also fill in and cover all the Chicago areas. So we will not skip a beat. But why don't we go and say hello? Coach Evan, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_02

I'm doing good. I think Doug had some car trouble, is why he's not on it tonight. And uh I'm just not sure where I'm gonna do with my misplaced aggression. So just everybody be ready for probably probably Rob. It'll probably come Rob. He'll probably say something that'll make me upset. So, but excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00

Good to uh good to see ya. And uh, Coach Rob, how are you doing out in Pennsylvania?

SPEAKER_05

It's good. We had a nice day of weather, it's about 68. When I wake up tomorrow, it's gonna be about 34. So just another uh just another day in the northeast.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's good to have you on. And and last week, our good friend Coach Glenn was a little under the weather, and so he's back, and uh, we're glad that he's back on. Coach Glenn, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_01

I'm doing all right, still a little bit under the weather, fighting the good fight. Also, the ebbs and flows of the weather in the northeast. Just trying to kick this cough. But other than that, I'm doing great. Excited to be back.

SPEAKER_00

All right, and I will formally now introduce uh Coach Dan Ames from Aurora. Uh Aurora is located in the Chicago area. He's gonna tell us all about his university and program. He's great for the game. Their program is very competitive. They've racked up some great wins this year. But uh, Coach Dan, why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_03

My name is Dan Ames. I've been coaching Division III volleyball for what is this now, 13 years, if I'm not mistaken. Actually started the Dominican program and had Coach Doug, actually coached Coach Doug when he was 14 years old, 15 years old. So and have become uh pretty good friends with the distinguished panel that you have here with everybody. Some some good gentlemen. So very honored to be a part of this today and uh excited to be able to promote Aurora and just talk about the game, is that is sort of what I do all day long is volleyball, volleyball, volleyball.

SPEAKER_00

That's awesome. Well, coach, I usually always ask the first question you already answered, which was incredible. I always say, How long have you been coaching and what do you like about Aurora? And you're welcome to I want you to talk about Aurora, but I'm gonna also ask another question and then we can get to Aurora too. But as a before the call, you and I just started immediately talking about all these Pacific guys because there's deep ties to the University of the Pacific and Chicago. So you were name-dropping all these guys from Chicago that I know. They were my teammates, they played for you, you know them well. Do you believe for Pacific to have some success? Do you think that they can get back into that pipeline and like look at the 6-3-0 kids, look at the pipeline kids, look at Spry? Because it was not, in my opinion, I mean, I was there part of the program. I was there for about 10 years of the 20 years of the program. I was either playing and then a few years later coaching. Chicago was really good to us, and we had some really talented, good Midwestern value kids. Do you think could you see that a little pipeline continuing?

SPEAKER_03

I think with the level of club ball out here in Chicago, honestly, in our in our opinion, only chasing what it is out in California, I think it's a great area. And especially where a lot of these kids, where some understand what Division III is, and we're doing our best to help promote it and get that information out there. But every one of these kids and and these coaches on the call knows that they're just waiting for that division one offer. You know, they're looking for their best opportunity that they can play at the highest level possible. So I think that's a battle that every Division III program has, but I have no doubt that Pacific will uh hit the ground running and be able to uh snipe some of the Chicago kids right out from from underneath us and get them to come out too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think that we didn't get a lot, like I'm not bagging on myself, but the type of Southern California kids Pacific got was like me, you know, and like that's fine, but they're not getting like Balboa Bay. Like, and I hope down the road they are. I'm not Coach Devin's great, but I would say if you asked Coach Wortman or the Pacific, like people like where was your biggest hotbed? It'd be like European and Chicago. And we would get like guys from Chicago that were maybe the times were different back then, but they they were maybe a little under the radar, and then they they just blew up in college. When I could see that happening, but I could see it also happening for other places. There's so many places blowing up, but I had to ask you that because you are so connected and know Chicago so well. But tell me a little bit uh of why you love Aurora.

SPEAKER_03

Well, um it's seven minutes from my house, so I got very lucky there. B, it's my wife's alma mater, so she went there. But honestly, one of the main things was I got to watch this school sort of start from uh a small square be surrounded by houses, to now it owns a lot of those houses that are surrounded by campus, have truly found everywhere on campus to put a building, a dorm, along with building a whole nother it's about six blocks, four to six blocks from the school is a Spartan athletic park where we have a lot of other athletic facilities, a second weight room. So I think during one of the things that won me over specifically is my first season was the COVID season, and where I think a lot of schools were were stopping their growth, stopping their investment. Aurora kept going. We built a six million dollar wrestling facility, we built a new$25 million dorm. But we've really seen the school sort of invest in itself and be able to grow without having to take out any loans or anything like that. So I do compare, I think the education has gotten significantly better over the years, and even just to get on the U.S. News World Report, as we were one of the top 20 beautiful campuses when it came to the education. I think we were ranked number 10 in Illinois, where the only private school in front of us was Northwestern. My jaw dropped honestly when I saw that. We've definitely the school has done an amazing job in sort of reinventing itself and being able to continue on the path to be able to draw top, top-notch student athletes to campus.

SPEAKER_00

Well, congratulations. That's a really uh prestigious award. I mean, you got Northwestern, you got University of Chicago, Loyola's gorgeous, Dominican, you said that you could used to coach there. That's a gorgeous, lovely campus. Uh Concordia Chicago is nice. I'm gonna definitely have to uh hit your school up, coach, because I'm as you know, I go to Chicago a lot. So uh we'll have to just come by and say hello. But coach uh Coach Glenn, what question do you have for Coach Dan?

SPEAKER_01

Coach Dan, I want to give you an opportunity to kind of plug your program a little bit and speak to the some of your recruiting thoughts on you were blessed to start a program at Dominican that had a lot of success while you were there, and then right after you were gone with some of the kids that you brought in. You've done the same thing at Aurora after you took over a very young program there. What are some of the things that you look for in recruits and and how and how they'll fit into your program?

SPEAKER_03

Obviously, skill academics, but personality is something that's huge to me. And that's one of the things that we teach our guys is if you're here and you're within the program, there's there's something in common. You found something that gets along with me. Now, what is it that gets along with the other guys? And so we do personality tests, we do all those different things to see why you would or why you would not get along with some of your teammates, and then being able to sort of dive into that. So, you know, definitely like there's been recruits. One of the guys that went to Dominican when I was there on his visit, I said, Stop being a used car salesman. I want you, you're here, you're that's why you're on this visit. You don't need to sell me when it comes to Aurora. You know, we actually recently had a campus uh visit from another recruit, and I just said, Come on, man, I need you to give me a little bit more because I need them to be engaged on their visit. And one of the things that we do is we make sure that that every recruit is able to meet at least eight to 15 of our guys on every single visit. And so they're able to ask every single question that they can possibly think of with their parents. Um, and I tell them if they want to see our zitz or warts or ugly side, ask those questions because the guys know I'm not a fan of liars or fake people. And so they're gonna get that honest answer from each one of our guys. Um, they're not gonna think it's one way when they get to Aurora and then find out it's another. They know exactly what they're getting before they come and walk into that door.

SPEAKER_01

Awesome.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you, coach. Thank you, Glenn, for being way easier than I thought.

SPEAKER_00

Well, Coach Evan, he always has great questions, so uh I'm hyping you up, but I I know I know you got some good ones.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I got a three-parter. Okay. The first part is Glenn, read the sheet and don't be stealing my questions. Okay, that's number one. Number two, have the sheet. Number two, not a question. Okay, but I just think it's important to know this, and you guys can do with this information what you would like. Okay. Dan and I saw each other recently in California. We were playing at the exact same time, and Cal Lutheran has two different gyms. They're right next to each other, uh, for those that haven't been there. And uh during warmups, I left the gym, my team was warming event, and I went over to Dan to say hello. How are you, sir? And I just think it's important to know that I went to Dan's gym to say hi and not the other way around. Again, do with that what you will, but that's the 100%. Yeah. Okay. I just want that to be known. And then the real question is obviously a lot of success, you know, with Dominican. You've had a lot of success at Aurora. Are you doing things the same way at both places? Have you done things very differently, either tactically or you know, your approach with the guys? Like I'm very curious about how you've been different or the same between both those places.

SPEAKER_03

The only thing that I would say is different is the type of young man I think that comes to Aurora is different than the type of young man that come that goes to Dominican. And and I put a lot of similarities out there where I think Dominican and North Central get a very similar type of young man. And I think Aurora gets somebody that's a little bit more similar to Benedictine, you know, North Park. I think there's a white collar and there's a blue collar in in sort of work ethics, things like that. So definitely learning your niche at the school was something that I had to do at Aurora for the first couple years. Being during COVID, being my first year, you know, it was uh it was interesting getting to know those young men, but having the connections with the club directors and asking those questions about what type of young men that they are. But I'll be honest, Evan, I think that we've we've known of each other and known each other for quite a while. I don't have uh the energy to be someone that I am not. I am definitely the same person. I think I just look for something a little bit different, and it's definitely a lot harder to recruit nowadays than it is uh than it was back in 2014.

SPEAKER_00

Good stuff. And then uh, Coach Rob, what do you have for Coach Dan?

SPEAKER_04

Dan, this is something we talked about a lot over the summer, and I'm proud to say we followed in your footsteps with at Misericordia. Talk to me a little bit about Aurora's implementation of your reverse reserve squad with reserve matches and the role and importance that plays in your program for your athletes.

SPEAKER_03

So we have a bigger roster. We probably have one of the bigger rosters in D3. I think this year we're actually down where we have 21 or 22 guys, and I would say that the gym feels empty sometimes. But when it comes to the reserve matches, it was something where junior college level was starting out here in Chicago, so there was an opportunity for us to be able to play some of those the junior colleges that are out here, along with there's some NAIs like St. Xavier that have really big rosters. And so when we go and play them, just ask the coach if we can play two out of three sets or if we can play a running one-hour clock, just to be able to get our guys some experience. And honestly, one of the best guys this year that's a key contributor to us, S.J. Nelson, did that exactly last year. He was a transfer in from an NAI jumped out of the gym, but didn't have the arm swing. And so we we gave him a task of what we would love for him to see him do in the offseason, and he did it, and he started to progress with a better arm swing, and I think at one point he put up 20 plus kills in a reserve match. And so he sort of showed us that he's ready, and then he didn't get his first start until our conference tournament last year. And so being able to share a story like that to each one of our guys sort of gives them that hunger, gives them that excitement. And when we were out in California, we were able to play a reserve match with Kalloo as well. So being able to see the guys, some of the freshmen that they've brought in compared to the freshmen that we've brought in, some of the underclassmen that aren't getting a whole lot of playing time. Excuse me. It was a great opportunity to um honestly sort of evaluate our guys against top-notch competition. And you're able to get that back and forth. We've definitely from our reserve squad, they're sometimes Jekyll and Hyde, right? Because they don't have a whole lot of experience, but being able to get them out there and see them in a game type situation that's different than in your own gym is huge and sort of shows how some of them can handle some stress going into some parts of the match.

SPEAKER_00

Well, great co uh questions from our panel. Thanks a lot, guys. And it's always good to learn a little bit more about Coach Dan and his program. We're gonna pivot now and we're gonna go to the recaps of your guys' matches and recaps of uh matches kind of around in your area. Let's start with Coach Evan. What do you got for us? Sure.

SPEAKER_02

Um let's see what we got. Uh we had one match this week. We beat uh MIT at home, a little 3-1 win, which was great uh for us. I think they're 13th in the poll last week. And then uh Springfield also beat MIT. So MIT's been playing really well, just a couple of uh tough losses there. Uh on the positive side for MIT, there Libero with uh Kevin Windish is back. Uh he had been missing most of the season. I think he's really important to what they do. He's been a starter, I think, his whole career, honestly. So I think it should stabilized them, you know, moving forward as they get into EVC play. Uh a little spring breakout here. I think we'll talk about that a little later. So some lighter schedules. So LaSalle was idle. Uh, I wanted to give a quick shout-out to I'm trying to find some programs we haven't talked about, you know, a lot or at all. And so I'm just looking through some results. And uh Elms College is 13-9 this year, which is more wins than they've had since like 2021. They've got a new coach, Brendan Hapgood, uh former LaSelle guy. He's got them playing well. So uh we'll see them coming up this weekend. But, you know, nice to see a program that's uh hadn't had a ton of wins the last couple years, and then now they're playing really well.

SPEAKER_00

All right. Well, thanks for the update there, Coach Evan. Let's move on to uh Coach uh Dan. What about what's going on in the Chicago area?

SPEAKER_03

I took my notes and made sure that I would make Doug proud. So last week, Mount Union pulled an upset of Buffalo State. That was, I think, something that was pretty good for Mount Union. Um, Illinois Wesleyan beat Augustana in five. They've been hot with their opposites and setter putting up some triple doubles and honestly just sort of tearing it up against other teams. IIT upset Dominican in four last week. Their pins went absolutely insane. And then within the knack, MSOE beat Dominican. I'm sorry, MSOE beat Benedictine with a very balanced offense, and then Carthage swept Dominican as well. So there was a lot going on. Uh, and then Aurora after we came back from California. We had two conference matches last week uh against Coach Curtis and CUW and um against Coach Rushmer and Lakeland, and we won both of those matches.

SPEAKER_00

Good good week for you guys. And Coach Glenn, what do you got for us?

SPEAKER_01

Uh we played a tri match this weekend with Stevenson and Mount Union. We did a lot of prep and work with Mount Union coming off that win that Dan talked about against Buff State and had a successful weekend. Uh we went 2-0. Stevenson went one-one, losing to Juniata and beating Mount Union, and Mount Union went 0-2. And the Stevenson Mount Union match was honestly wild. Mount Union goes up 2-0 uh with Michael Bowler down for the match, and Stevenson kind of comes roaring back. They actually were up 15-1 at one point in the fourth set, and I think 18-1, end up winning the fourth set 25-5, and then Mount Union led 10-8 after the switch. Um, and and Stevenson was able to pull that out. So it was kind of a wild match right in the middle of the day of two pretty competitive teams. So overall, really good. I know the CVC is diving another CVC weekend, conference weekend coming up. Almost every team plays Wednesday. You play your travel partner this week. So big matchup is uh Kane Rutgers Juniata plays E Town, Merrymount versus Southern Virginia. So it should be an exciting week.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thanks for the update there, and I will give the West Coast update. Cal Lutheran beat uh Wab Ash in four sets on Monday, and then on Tuesday, which I'm sure we can get Coach Dan to chime in. Great win for Aurora at Cal Lutheran out in California. Uh that was last Tuesday night, and we'll get coach's thoughts on that before we get Rob to chime in. And then UC Santa Cruz, they lost to Keene in five sets, and then they beat Wabash in four sets on Wednesday, March 11th. So that's kind of what was going on on the West Coast. Uh, Coach Dan, do you want to uh chime in at all about your match against Kalloo? I mean, that's a big win going out to California and beating a top five program.

SPEAKER_03

It was a heck of a match. I mean, it was a heck of a weekend too. We we started our weekend with Santa Cruz and had Baldwallace and had Kane and then to finish it off. And we played a reserve match before the Kallo match. So it was it was an opportunity to get all of our guys out on the court to get them to see some playing time and get them a little bit excited going into that match. And it definitely worked. It was uh you know, I I'm blessed to have some pretty amazing assistance coaches that Brian Johnwick, my full-time assistant, every time that we were doing something fun with the boys, he was sitting there and doing a scouting report. So he definitely got things ready and got us prepared going into the Kalhoo match. And Coach Kevin always does an amazing job with their program, so it was definitely a battle and something that I think both of our programs look forward to years year in and year out. And you know, I've gotten to know some of those guys being on the NCAA committee. So it was fun to see some of those guys before and afterwards.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, good update there, and again, incredible win, and like that. You gave the shout-out to Coach Kevin. He's an awesome coach. He's been on the podcast too. Um, and last but certainly not least, Coach Rob, what do you have for us?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, quiet week in mid-Atlantic with the spring breaks. Stevens, big 4-0 week, including three conference wins. So the showdown with Messiah is looming.

SPEAKER_04

I think both teams are pretty safe in terms of the NCAA tournament, which we'll talk about in a bit. But conference champs always sounds nice. Eastern had a big Mac upset over Arcadia. I think it's their first win over the nights in program history of five center this weekend. And uh a conference we don't touch on a ton is the Kuniac out of New York City, and they have a nice one-year rental with NJCU. And NJCU had a win over Hunter to kind of wrestle control of the conference, and it looks like in their only season, the uh New York City conference is actually gonna run through Jersey City uh with uh with the Gothic Knights in a good position to host.

SPEAKER_00

All right, well, thanks so much, guys, for the update. Some good things are going on. Let's move on to the next uh section of what players stood out this weekend. I'll start with um Cal Lutheran. I was pretty impressed with um Tyler Linville. He hit 314 for Cal Lutheran. He had 17 kills in that five-set loss to Aurora, so nice little match there for Tyler. And then UC Santa Cruz, Nick Nyack hit 320 and had 13 kills in the win against Wabash. So good uh weekends for those guys. And uh, let's move on to Glenn. Who stood out for you?

SPEAKER_01

I want to start out with one of my guys who you know it's fun to see him start to get healthy, and and I know what that means for a lot of other teams. And Chris Meller, uh, he's dealt with some foot issues all year, our big 6'8 middle, and he had a monster weekend against Mount Union and uh and Stevenson, and that causes a lot of problems for everybody else when he's going offensively. So super excited for him. I also wanted to shout out Tommy Forcy, SVU. He was CVC player of the week, had a big match for the for the Knights.

SPEAKER_00

Good stuff. And uh, Coach Dan, who uh stood out for you?

SPEAKER_03

You know, there's a couple with my own team. I'm gonna say Josh McClellan and uh Solomon Dale. You know, Saul had a catastrophic knee injury as a sophomore and has made the um a comeback and decided to go back into the middle this year, and everything started to click against Santa Cruz, and he had a heck of a weekend. Um, so with him, was very proud when it came to the IIT upset of Dominican. Maximo Dowling and Brian Evans both went off against them. So those two from IIT, and then I actually had Tyler Linville because that was his first match back after a severe cut concussion that he had against uh Northridge. So he didn't um he did a great job against us. Um, and I don't know his name, but I know that these two these gentlemen will know it. But the Kane Libero out Tyler Quinn, he is absolutely insane a difference maker for his team. I can't tell you how many times that a ball came two inches from hitting the ground, and that young man got it up to the center of the court and allowed them to be able to run an offense on the odd of that. So definitely a head turner there. Thank you, Rob.

SPEAKER_00

Awesome. And uh let's go to Coach Evan, who stood out for you?

SPEAKER_02

Sure. So uh this is now the Jaden Greenwell show of Wabash, uh brought to you by KP. Talked about him at length last week when we played. Played against them. The hottest team in the country, he went 9-2-15. And then against Santa Cruz, he went 13-1-21. Okay, Dan, let me ask you a question. Are you on the ABCA like uh all region committee?

SPEAKER_03

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. I'm gonna need you to put Jaden Greenwell at the top of that, okay? This guy is not an all-American. I'm coming after you, Ames, all right? I'm just saying that right now. He's a big physical body. That is for the darn sure. Yeah, okay. Um this guy, this guy for maybe national player of the year when he's a senior. We'll see. Okay. I can see like uh what's uh gosh, it's late. Who's the vaster kid that's played for the national team?

SPEAKER_05

Matt Kniggy.

SPEAKER_02

This is this guy's gonna go the Kniggy route, okay? He's gonna play middle first, first three years, and you're gonna get him six rotations, and he's bringing Wab Ash to the promised land, okay? I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_04

I think you just put this weight of the world on this kid's shoulder. He's gotta go have an eight-year career in Europe. He's gonna be like, who is this guy?

SPEAKER_03

He's got some broad shoulders, Rob.

SPEAKER_02

He's got some broad shoulders. Yes, he does. Yeah, and then uh my other choice, I was just looking at uh you know, who's been performing well over kind of a stretch, and uh Newpaltz is one of the hottest teams in the country, and maybe we haven't talked about him enough. Um Chris Jain, okay, he's had the last seven matches. Here was hitting percentage 455, 333 for Springfield, which is usually pretty good. They're pretty good defensively. That's his worst match. 500, 580, 545, 800, 600. The dude's on a stretch, and I think him being back in the lineup has coincided with them on their hot streak as well. So um, you know, big uh big run here for for New Paul St. Chris.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm pretty sure he's doing it on uh on a bum leg.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's definitely not 100%. So uh he's doing well.

SPEAKER_00

All right, and how about Coach Rob? Who uh stood out for you?

SPEAKER_04

Before we go, I want it to be noted that bum leg was Evan's nickname in high school. So I just want the people to know that.

SPEAKER_02

That's true.

SPEAKER_04

First guy I gotta give a shout-out to, uh, Julius Cleveland Steamer from Stevens. He gave us a hot one this week. Played in uh played in two matches, 27-4 and 43. Really, really electric arm. He had he was 15-2 and 23 against us. Four ace has hit 558 in his performances. Just juicing balls out there like Jose Canseco. Um, absolutely bombing on us. And second guy, uh I rarely do this, but someone from my own team I gotta give a shout out to, Ben Clendenning, one of our middle blockers, went the hard route to a double-double. 11 kills and 11 block assists in a five-set win over NJCU. If we had a couple more guys on the team who could press across the net, he might have had about 15 block assists. He was touching everything, he was all over their offense. So it's really fun to see men light it up out there. But those are my two shout-outs.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thank you, uh, Coach Rob, and all you guys shouting out those athletes. And I think it's really important to really highlight these guys that have just been grinding all season long, and we've been able to name kind of cool. It's been an exciting Division III season, and I think the best is still yet to come. We generally at this point of the show talk about the AVCA rankings, and you know, they're very interesting and where these guys predict, and they're pretty good at that. We have a great opportunity to talk about the NPI rankings, and I was gonna let Coach Rob eloquently kind of explain to the listeners what NPI is, and then we're gonna have these guys dive into it and really get after it. So go the floor is yours, Coach Rob.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so the NPI is a formula based on a set of dials that gives a mathematical score to every game played across the country in terms of win value and loss value based on things like whether you were home or away, and just make sure that we are evaluating the entire slate of college volleyball across the entirety of the year. Rumor has it, you know, some sort of eclectic genius set the dials where they are at, and that's why we find it to be so accurate. But at the end of the day, what it does is it will award the top seven teams in the rankings who do not win their conference with a bid to the NCA tournament. So, as a reminder for the folks at home, there are 14 pool A winners based on the conference affiliations when the conference tournament time comes around. And then the top seven teams that are not conference winners in the NPI rankings will also be headed to the NCA tournament. Lastly, uh there is a new policy with the NCA in an attempt to protect the top four seeds and making sure that despite geography, that they don't end up in the same bracketing. That does not necessarily mean the top four teams are going to host. It's very important that people listen to that, but that the top four seeds should all be in different pods, different regions, even if it means that one team needs to get shipped out to a different region in order to be in that space. Dan is our resident committee member that is uh joining us on a great call with First NPI. Did I get anything wrong there?

SPEAKER_03

No, I think you said it perfectly. You know, the the protection does not include hosting. I think that that's really important. And I think something else that's really important is there is no set pod numbers. Every pod needs to have at least four teams in it. But like I think on Volley Talk today, somebody happened to say, oh, it's four three pods with five and one pod with six. That is not necessarily the case. There could be a pod of four that is put together as well. So want to make sure that everybody is aware of that.

SPEAKER_04

And before people go at Dan online and in the ether and say, oh man, a 21 team tournament doesn't make sense. I promise you the committee do not say, hey, you know what sounds like the right number for our NCAA tournament is 21. There's no way that's how that conversation went. I just want to make sure people don't come at you wrong.

SPEAKER_03

And to answer that also, so everybody knows it's it's a mathematical formula of the total number of teams that there is. Rob, it's divided by six now, right? Not six point five any longer.

SPEAKER_04

Correct.

SPEAKER_03

And so with that, even though we were hoping that they would round up to 22, the NCAA will never round up, is ultimately what they told us.

SPEAKER_04

And they begged us to they they requested that we go for 21, not and the last, last important thing is that it is not based on the current year's membership number, but previous year's member?

SPEAKER_00

And for the common fan, if you may, any of you guys can answer this. Uh does women's volleyball division three have an NPI?

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, and then does Division I women's volleyball or division two do they have an NPI? No, they have an and then do other sports in Division III landscape besides women's and men's volleyball have NPI?

SPEAKER_03

Every single team sport is f is following the NPI now.

SPEAKER_00

And I should know this probably because I cover it, but does men's volleyball division one have an RPI? If I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, they have an extensive list of criteria. Vinny Loebs from off the block does a tremendous job come NCAA tournament time of breaking down all the different teams head to head. But NPI is unique to Division III, and each sport has unique dials, so that while the formulas use the same criteria, we all have different numbers that go into the data set.

SPEAKER_00

I like that you guys have like a lot of data and numbers, and there's so many teams, and I get that. I personally think for the most part, division one and two on the men's side get it right. I'm not gonna get into division one women's because there's 64 teams that make the playoffs. That's kind of like March Madness for basketball. Like you can always argue this team didn't make it or that, but for the most part, I think division one and two get it right. But I what I've gathered is someone who played in it and also just studies it like crazy. I think it's just a bunch of people that go into a room. And yes, Vinny writes an eloquent article, and he does every year, and he's pretty good about predicting it, but it seems like takes out a little bit of the human element, like in a sense where it's a lot more data. Would you agree with that, Rob and Dan?

SPEAKER_04

It doesn't take it, yeah, it 100% removes it. Um the the first year we had it was my last year on committee. There no longer is a discussion about which teams should get in and which teams aren't. You just go to the list and pull the first teams that are ranked there, and then you build your bracket with some geographic pieces in mind, with some NCA uh seating policies and tournament policies in mind, and you build the closest bracket you can to what is given to you with those things based on the rankings.

SPEAKER_00

Because it's it's fascinating to me because basically no one can really complain in my home. I mean, maybe they still can at the division three, but like division one, we always have like UCI David Niffin getting up on as he should and advocate for his kids and his team, or Charlie Wade some years, and they get on the you know press conference and they say this is why we should make it. And I don't to be honest, I don't know which one's better or not. I see some value in RPI and getting people in a room and having a conversation. Do you think a little of it is because like division three ADs like they have a lot going on and it would cost them a lot of money to like go and meet in a room and they're like, Look, this system just works for division three, let's just do this.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I can say I think uh you know, different sports have have different reasons. Rob and I have sat in as committee members together on a lot of those calls about who we're putting where and and why. And when you look at the model, you can look at the NPI model and go backwards. And it's been basically if we had used NPI instead of Rob and I or another number of different people in that room making the choices, it's almost exactly the same over the last five years. Now, maybe some of the matchups have to be moved because of travel and and all that sort of thing. But all the same teams we're getting in the NCAA tournament, whether it was the mad genius Rob uh and myself making the choice or the NPI model.

SPEAKER_03

I'll tell you, Kevin, last year we uh one of our early phone calls, I said, so the odds of us having a perfect bracket are like slim to none. Is that correct here? And our NCAA rep was like, yeah, probably. When we went into that last weekend and and when we started building the bracket, I think there was only two teams that we wound up moving because that to make me a worse first-round matchup and play Glenn against Junior.

SPEAKER_02

Was that was that one of them, Dan? Or what?

SPEAKER_03

You know, I definitely can't say that anything was targeted like that specific, but but it will definitely get targeted your air quotes. No, I it was like I know Teal was one of them, like right off the top of our head, that they wound up being moved because they were able to go to two different sites, things like that. So honestly, I think when the committee was done, we were pretty happy with the way things worked out and and how it looked. The one thing I'll say about NPI also was it was mimicking the ADCA voting last year. I mean, everybody's opinion was the same as what the computers were saying. And I think if uh go ahead, Rob. No, no, finish your thought. I'm sorry. And if we can get close to that again, um I think that there's not a whole lot of backlash that comes from that, if the computer's matching personal opinion as well.

SPEAKER_04

The last thought I want to add, Kevin, I want to say it was in 2024 we had three teams being considered for the last two at-large spots. And Dan was on that call with me, and we spent over two hours analyzing these three teams for two spots: head-to-head comparisons, three-way comparisons, common opponent comparisons. And all things considered, the men's volleyball tournament is small. I believe we were at 19 that year, and we had three spots for independence at the time, and three spots for pool sees. And we still, in that 19 team bracket, spent probably about three and a half to four hours putting together our bracket and seating. You mentioned women's volleyball, you mentioned men's basketball. That's a 64-team tournament where they need to pick 30 at-large teams. And unlike volleyball, it's not so lucky that, you know, our men's basketball team won't play a team from Boston. You know, I'm sure Glenn's basketball team doesn't play teams from California and get those reps, and same for Dan. Volleyball has so much cross-sport comparison data, and so many other sports have such few opportunities to do that. Uh, I've heard stories of the baseball selection process taking over 24 hours to do it and bracket it. So when you ask why they move to this model and and across all Division III sports, it provides clarity to the process and it provides a cleanliness to what they do of looking and saying, okay, here's the teams, and especially going into the last weekend, it allows you to have that idea of okay, hey gentlemen, here's what we need to do if we lose our conference tournament. Here's how we sit, here's where those surprise moments can be. So it makes the process much cleaner for all parties involved.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it definitely was really fun to just listen and hear you guys talk about it. And I personally just like that's some of my favorite part of sport. It's like, okay, why is this going on? Why is this conference like this? Why is this division? So thanks so much for sharing that, guys. But let's let's now that we know all about MBI and our knowledge of all the people.

SPEAKER_03

Can I add one thing for any of the coaches that are listening? If you are a school that you feel that you're gonna make the NCAA tournament, whether it's a conference at large, and put in to host MCVL, put in to host and make other people's lives easier because the MCVL is located right in an area where the East Coast can drive to them and the Midwest can drive you know to them as well, whether it's Wisconsin or Chicago. So it again, it doesn't have to be the top four seeds. This is open to anybody that makes the NCAA tournament.

SPEAKER_04

So Judd just texted me. He's listening live. He said Cal Lutheran would love to host.

SPEAKER_03

He said they're in.

SPEAKER_00

That'd be cool. Well, like I said, we're learning a lot on this uh podcast about this, and it's great, but let's let's dive into then what since you know the NPI is coming out and these things, what is surprised you what are some good things, what are some things you want to comment on? Anyone want to go at it first?

SPEAKER_02

Okay, I think the biggest difference probably from the ABCA poll to the NPI is a team that does not appear in the top 20 currently in Illinois Wesleyan, and they are 14th in NPI, with they're right, you know, we're right above Santa Cruz and Rutgers Newark and LaSalle and MIT, a bunch of teams that have been you know ranked almost every single week. So, you know, that was a uh I haven't seen them, but so obviously they've had a really good season uh and they're doing, you know, they're doing really, really well. But it was just probably the biggest difference, I would say, between coaches poll versus NPI.

SPEAKER_04

On that note, if the tournament started today, Illinois Wesleyan last team in.

SPEAKER_03

Yep. Three CCIW teams in as well.

SPEAKER_04

Half the conference, pretty good rate. Who do they think they are? The Nescaq?

SPEAKER_00

That's good. Anyone else want to add anything before we move on?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, uh one thing I I'd like to point out, you know, Evan talked about Illinois Wesleyan at 14. I would say, you know, the whole pre-teens to low teens. Um, Loris at 11, you know, they've been shaky the last couple weeks, but they haven't fallen too far from where they've been in the ABCA. And off making it 12 in NPI, certainly higher than where we've seen them in the ABCA. Endicott, I think they broke into the top 20 one week, but haven't really been a mainstay. They're at 13 and then Illinois Wesleyan at 14. And what I kind of did, and I just dove into it really quickly, and my other one that I thought was a little bit off the beaten path was SVU at six. Obviously, they had a nice one over Juniata, but don't really have another signature win aside from that. But beat the number two team in NPI is a great win to have. It's the wins from 25 to 50 right now. If you go to the NCA site and scroll down to that win value, beating the team that is ranked 50th is currently worth uh 61.29 win value. That's pretty good. If you look at the teams that are going to the tournament, that's above their value. So if you're loading up on those wins from 25 to 50, it's really big for where you're at in this point of the season. We haven't always seen the data shake out that way. And then I pulled up SVU's resume. They have nine wins over teams from 25 to 50. So they've really loaded up on that chunky middle part of the NPI and kind of inflated that value, beating the teams that you would expect SVU to beat a team ranked somewhere 25 to 50 in the country. But when you do it nine times to fill out that value, and you're only losing matches to those that are, you know, in the nationally elite discussion. I think that's a big surprise from what I've seen in uh in past years' data. And and there's a good chance I've looked at this data more than anyone on earth.

SPEAKER_00

Just curious if you guys, you know, because I don't have the data in front of me, I know they're having a good season and they're winning a lot. What's Buffalo State at right now? Do you guys know or do you have it in front of you?

SPEAKER_04

So Buffalo State is at 20. Their highest value win is over BW, who's at 23. So what we've typically seen is that if you want to be an at-large team, you you normally need a win over a top five team in the country. This year, with our pool being expanded to seven teams, it's probably going to be closer to, hey, you need a top 10 win over another NPI, top 10 team to kind of be in that consideration. There's obviously a lot of different mathematical ways to get there. Um, but but I think that is almost like a prerequisite in terms of having your your score get high enough.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and obviously, like for someone who follows a sport closely, I think obviously like the Juniatas, the Springfields, the NYUs, they're probably sitting pretty. What about like a Vassar who's had some tough losses, but they've also like they beat Springfield? So, like, how are they sitting?

SPEAKER_04

Vassar's at 26. The NPI really, really dings you for losing. So the only team in the top 20 with more than five losses is Wentworth with seven. And when those losses are to number one, number three, number four, number nine, number fifteen, and number seventeen, you're you're in a you're in an okay spot. Vassar's losses come with a little bit less value. Um, while they have lost to some great teams, they've also got a loss to a 38 to 18, so just a little bit less in that loss value category.

SPEAKER_00

And then the easiest way to make it is to obviously win your conference and get an automatic bid, correct? And not base it off of like an at-large, correct? And then do all the teams have conference playoffs, or does it usually just like nope, it's just the regular season?

SPEAKER_04

Every conference has a conference playoff to determine their bid, but Springfield, Cal Lutheran, Santa Cruz is independents, their only ticket into the tournament is through being one of the top seven non-automatic qualifying teams. So they they don't have any other opportunity to make it in aside from receiving an at-large bid.

SPEAKER_00

So as an NCAA basketball fan, what happened to like Miami of Ohio? Like that could totally happen to one of these teams in NCAA division three. They like can crush, crush the regular season, win the conference, but then like let's say Buffalo State, you know, knock on well, not trying to give bad vibes to Buffalo State. They're having a great year, but let's say they lose in their conference tournament. Is there probably a shot that they wouldn't get one of those at-large bids?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's it's certainly possible. Stevenson went 30 and 4. They were ranked as high as number three in the ABCA poll. At the time, there were two pool C bids and two pool B bids. There were a couple conference losses that surprise folks. And Stevenson, despite being one of the three best teams in the country all year long, um, ended up missing out on the tournament. So it is certainly important to win your conference tournament.

SPEAKER_00

Good stuff. And we could I could talk about this for literally hours with you guys, but I I just greatly appreciate you guys eloquently answering these. You know, uh, I think probably some of the questions I have, I would assume the fans would too. So, but let's move on to our big matches of the week. Coach Glenn, what big matches are happening with either your program or around your area?

SPEAKER_01

So big CVC matches this week. I talked about uh Wednesday being our travel partner matchup day. So you're gonna see Kane and Rutgers, and you know, I think with all the coaches I've talked to this year about you know that have had the opportunity to play Kane, I've gotten to watch them play live. I've obviously watched a whole bunch of video. Man, does Bez have that group competing, right? They they absolutely get after it. I believe they have a mantra of like play every point like it's your last, um, you know, and and they do that. So I'm excited for that matchup because that matchup has some some NPI shakeout in it, with Kane being 21 and Rutgers being 16. We also play Rutgers this week at Juniana Rutgers on Friday night, which would mean E Town Kane, and then it flips the next day. So some big matches in the CBC this week, and that definitely determined not only playoffs, but some national have some national implications as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and on the West Coast, uh Cal Lutheran is gonna play Hope, and that's gonna be we're airing this on Monday night. We uh put it out. The world on Wednesday, but on Tuesday, March 17th, Cal Lutheran will be playing Hope. On Friday, March 20th, they're going to have their alumni match to get a match in this week. And then UC Santa Cruz is going to take all week off, but then around March 23rd, they're going to head out to Chicago. They're going to play Aurora and they're going to play a slew of teens out there. But UC Santa Cruz is uh resting this week. So, Coach Rob, what big matches you got going on in your area?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I want to add one little point on to Glenn talking about Kane because I was doing some statistical research. Kane currently leads the country in digs per set, and a lot of us as coaches know, hey, that's not normally where you want to be. You don't want to be getting balls hit at you so much that you have the opportunity to lead the country in digs per set, but it's kind of fun from a men's volleyball perspective to see a competitive program that's winning big matches up at the top of the statistic of digs per set because it's just so rare for us to not see it be a team that is getting walked over pretty frequently. And Kane is doing that playing against some some pretty high-level competition, as we've discussed. So pretty cool from that standpoint. Um two two two matches I want to throw out there. Um, Stevenson Arcadia with a five-set win over us a few weeks ago. Stevenson is in the driver's seat for the three-seed for the Mac, which keeps you out of the Tuesday play-in, come conference playoff time. I mentioned Arcadia having that loss to Eastern, so those guys really need to grab a win. They're in a little bit of a desperation mode. So that'll be a big one. Um and then on Saturday, I believe Hobart is doing a little bit of a Boston trip. They play LaSalle. LaSalle's been pretty hot. I think they've won like 10 or 11 in a row now. Been a little while since they've had a test of its level, and Hobart's been playing some really good ball. I think they were the first team from the UVC to clinch their conference playoff spot at 4-0. So I'll be interested to see what lineup Coach England gets out there, if he can uh conjure up any spells to put on uh to put on Coach Vautrin. Uh but uh yeah, I'm looking forward to that one on Saturday.

SPEAKER_00

Good stuff. And then um what about Coach Dan? What about what's going on in the Chicago area?

SPEAKER_03

Chicagoland area on Wednesday. We got North Central against Carthage. Definitely a big one for the CCIW. And then in the Knack, we got Aurora versus Dominican on Wednesday. The NC MCVL, they start their the heart of their conference where Baldon Wallace and Calvin are playing each other and Shrine and Mount Union are playing each other. And then in the Knack and CCIW on Saturday, we got Aurora against MSOE and Carthage versus Loris.

SPEAKER_00

All right, good update there, coach. Lastly, Evan, what do you have for us?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I like how we just glaze over that Dominican Aurora playing each other, and Dan must, you know, where's uh where's Doug? You know, mysteriously he's not here this week. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I think there's I hear a I hear a wait.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, something's something's going on. Yeah. Well done, Rob. I don't know, I'm not buying it. And uh Rob buried the lead a bit. Hobart's playing MIT to start the week in America's Poverty Conference, the UVC. I can't believe you called him that. So rude. Yeah, it's so rude. And then what's then next, they come and play Wentworth. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna soften Hobart up just enough that they're you know, they'll still be a great match, but then they'll be tired when they go play LaSalle, and it's just gonna make LaSalle look that much better. So uh you're welcome, Jeff, over LaSalle. Happy to help. You know, I was looking through the matches and Penn State Altoona is playing Penn State Baron, and I just gotta know, is this like what kind of rival are we talking about here? Is this like Michigan, Ohio State? You know what I mean? Like, is it just like do these two just hate each other or is it like pretty friendly? I have no idea, but I'm really curious what that Tuna Baron uh rivalry looks like.

SPEAKER_04

I I want Glenn's take on this because he's actually in state college, but my biggest complaint is that all the Penn State branch campuses are still the Nittany Lions, and all the Penn State branch campuses wear the Penn State colors. So it's gonna look like a practice session with the two teams on the side of the net wearing the same stuff, just one says Baron and one says Altoona.

SPEAKER_01

Agreed. And I I believe one of the two actually uses the paw print instead of the Nittany Lion head, but I would also say two of the nicest human beings coaching those teams in Phil Pisano and Bob Kasin. Um, there'll probably be a lot of handshakes and thank yous going around from the coaching staffs. But I do like this. I think we should we should build this up as as a matchup of the week for sure. KP's highlight match of the week.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, maybe bring that back.

SPEAKER_02

But is it is it like all the, you know, if it's in Barron, do all the Baron people just you know, just trash tuna? Like, I don't know, you know, like what's the is just I'm very curious because we don't there I guess there's not really anything else like it, like you know.

SPEAKER_01

There are actually very different schools. So like Barron is a big like plastics engine. That is, if you want to study like plastics engineering, that is the place in Pennsylvania, and that is even if over main campus, if that is the specific major you want, you go to Barrend, where Altoona is the biggest of the satellite campuses, and they are a huge funnel. A lot of kids do two years at Altoona and then go to main campus.

SPEAKER_04

So that's what I was gonna say. I I think the biggest difference is that you look at a roster like Baron historically over the years, most of those kids play there for four years. You look at Altoona almost always first years and sophomores. Um I I think that you know might stunt the rivalry a little bit. Uh yeah, I I mean I guess the one thing that you know the kids in Altoona have going for them is that is that they don't live on Lake Erie because that that seems like it'd be pretty brutal.

SPEAKER_00

Well, uh I love that we've gotten some teams on here that we've talked about this week that we haven't given a lot of love this year. There's just so many talented coaches, so many talented programs, so many talented athletes out there. So good stuff, guys. Let's go to our questions from the fans. So spring break is coming up or is recently passed for many of the schools. What do teams typically do during spring break? Do they practice? Do they play? Does the coach give the athletes the whole week off? Is the campus and dining halls and dorms open for the athletes if they have some matches? Like what's kind of a day in of life for a student athlete you guys during spring break with your programs, if you may?

SPEAKER_02

So I could I can go first year because I think we're doing totally different things year in, year out, right? So this year we were in Southern California for our spring break, right? We're there from Tuesday to Sunday uh and had a you know a really nice trip and got to go to the beach and have a great time. Next year, I could not find a tournament that week that anybody else was hosting. So we're off for spring break next year, right? So we're doing something completely different one year to the next just based on who's hosting matches and who else is on break.

SPEAKER_01

Let it be known I totally invited Evan down to one of our tournaments and he didn't want to come.

SPEAKER_02

Said he only wanted to play Altoona. I'm going to Barrett or Altoona, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00

All right. Well, does anyone else want to chime in on that for their program or other programs? Maybe a program that does something super unique.

SPEAKER_03

I think everybody is similar but different, right? Like we're in the same exact situation as Evan, but luckily next year, I think a lot of teams that don't normally come out to Chicago are actually coming out where Southern Virginia is coming out, Hobart's coming out. So over spring break, instead of us going where we went to Southern California this year and we go every other year, um, next year we're going to be hosting over spring break where there's not going to be a whole lot of kids on campus. So it's not something that administration really loves, but at the same time, we can't pass up the opportunity to play a top 30, top 20 team, and especially be able to host them at home. But when it comes to I think dining halls, I would guess that every school is sort of a little different at Aurora. We actually give the kids when they're staying on campus for the time that they're going to be there, we give them a per diem. And so they're able to go out to the Chipotle, to Potbelly, whatever it is that they want to do, and go get their own meals. Whenever we play a match, though, we do feed them on those days. So we try to make sure that you know we do quite a bit of fundraising. And so one of the things that we make sure at Aurora is that our guys are always eating correctly, healthy, making sure that they got enough, but also that they're having the best student athlete experience that they could possibly have.

SPEAKER_00

I think very fondly of my times at the University of Pacific when no one was there, and it was just me and my teammates. And like one time I got a serving machine and put it in a dorm room, and we hosted like American Gladiator Night, and I took like an old school Pacific helmet from the ULP team. That is like we took like pillows and we like stuffed our pillows in our like and like we had volleyballs and they tried to just hit us, and then campus police came and like they weren't very happy about that, but that was a different story, and then balls flying out of the shattered windows and everything, and like and then we would do what was called campus golf, we'd do that a lot. We'd like have a tennis, like because you'd be on this like gorgeous campus, literally by yourself, and then the dining halls would be closed, but then coach would just like give us money and like we'd go buy food, or he'd like cook us dinner. But those are actually some of my fondest times. Like it was just me and my teammates, and there was like literally like 60 athletes on campus of this like little tiny private school, and we were just causing a ruckus, and we didn't have to have class that week, and we'd play matches. So I think it's unique to everyone. Sometimes people go to Hawaii, go to trips, but I think at the end of the day, enjoy it. You're in college, whatever you do, make the best of it. And if you have to do some American gladiator, you know, fun activities, that's what you gotta do, you know.

SPEAKER_01

So the best, the best comment of the night for sure. And the hilarious thing about it is we totally played American Gladiators too with the service.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. So yeah, we rolled it over to the door. I don't know. It well, we had an off day, so we we needed we needed to have some fun. So we did. It was good. Another question we had that came in, as you all have talked recently about programs getting cut, added all over college levels, is recruiting in numbers of athletes a big deterrent for school/slash administration from cutting a sports program, like a healthy, successful team in a program with a full roster of players, less likely to have that tough conversation.

SPEAKER_04

So Kevin, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that no men's volleyball program with more than 11 players on rosters will ever be cut in the world of Division III athletics. 90% of the Division III schools that sponsor men's volleyball have it as an enrollment driver to make sure that they are bringing students in the door. Our sport is so incredibly low cost to maintain. You basically need balls and a uniform. And unless you are south of Buena Vista, there's enough teams within a three to four hour radius for you to play to fill out a schedule. The only way I could ever see a program getting cut is if one of the public schools didn't like spending the money, and they think those students are going to be there anyway. But speaking for all four of us on the call and for 90% of the programs out there, I have no fear of misercordia men's volleyball being cut. Now, a school closure, athletic department shutting down, that's a totally different story. But singular programs being cut, I don't think will ever happen when a program has a healthy roster.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I was just on a Zoom with a former Hall of Fame coach, used to be Olympic coach, like big time, just retired. And we actually, this guy got brought up like two weeks ago, and I was talking to him about it. And he's like, you know, what's sad is the reason men's volleyball programs get cut at the Division I level is because they can. And the reason is is because they're not in conferences like the Big Ten or the Big 12. And that's why the Big West was such a huge conference that they started that because they put bylaws in there that say you have to have a men's volleyball team to operate this conference. And that was one thing that was really championed when the Big West started, and that's why it'd be really cool down the road if they could like maybe start a WCC conference. Like you already have Pacific, you already have Pepperdine, and you see San Diego, believe it or not, although they're in the Big West, right now their whole athletics moved to WCC besides men's volleyball. And so that's what's the challenge at the Division I level when they cut programs because it's the MPSF, it's the Miva and the Eva and these athletic directors. Like when they have to get rid of one, it's just easy to cut that. That's like, well, like if you're Ohio State, it's probably easier to cut men's volleyball than like go and cut like the basketball that is in the Big Ten or something like that. So I just hope down the road, I actually hope the Big Ten offers men's volleyball in Penn State and UCLA and SC. I think that'd be good for the sport. And then there could be bylaws that they can't cut the programs and stuff. I just think the reason why men's volleyball at the division one level gets cut a lot is because it can, and I think it's because these ADs they won't publicly say it, but they basically are just like, all right, well, we're gonna give this 150,000, 250,000, whatever the budget is for men's volleyball, we're gonna give it to the basketball team for NIL Red Rev share and try to get our program a little bit better, and that's how I feel about how it is. But um, does anyone else want to chime in on that question?

SPEAKER_03

I think what you just said very much.

SPEAKER_00

I think though that's a good point too, though, Rob. I think Division III, you're right, it's enrollment driven, it's awesome. So if you have a certain number of guys, you're good. But it was a great show. We really appreciate Coach Dan you coming on. We know it's late year time. We're gonna go and circle around and say our byes, and we'll start with Coach Evan. Anything else you want to add before we sign off?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think I was in a little better mood than I thought I was gonna be, you know. And did that coincide with Doug not being on? I don't know. Is it correlation? Is it causation? You know, who knows? But uh good week this week, boys.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. And then uh Coach Rob, what do you have for us?

SPEAKER_04

Remember, kids, clear eyes, full hearts. You still might lose. Sometimes the other team's more talented.

SPEAKER_00

Sound advice. And uh we got Coach Coach Dan here. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for everything you're doing for the sport. Uh you know, I look forward to seeing you on the recruiting trail. Love hearing about your program and everything you're doing. Anything else you'd like to add?

SPEAKER_03

Honored and privileged to sit with these distinguished gentlemen, all of you. So thank you for the opportunity and uh grateful that you gave me this time.

SPEAKER_00

Awesome. Well, thanks, Coach.

SPEAKER_01

And Coach Glenn, you you got the final word. Feel pretty disappointed in myself that I don't have some cute saying like Rob, but thanks for having me. And the best advice I could give to everybody out there is wash your damn hands so you don't get sick like everybody on this damn call. But thanks again, KP. Good luck to everybody this week.

SPEAKER_00

All right, good luck in your matches, guys, and we will see you next week.