With Us, Not For Us: Inclusion, Employment & Empowerment with Mark and John Cronin

Episode Overview

In this powerful and heart-opening episode, Valerie is joined by father–son duo Mark and John Cronin, founders of John’s Crazy Socks, the world’s largest sock store with a mission to spread happiness and create meaningful employment opportunities for people with differing abilities.

• Mark X. Cronin – Social entrepreneur, policy leader, advocate for disability inclusion, co-founder of John’s Crazy Socks and Abilities Rising. Two-time TEDx speaker, published author, and EY Entrepreneur of the Year award winner.
• John Cronin – Co-founder and Chief Happiness Officer of John’s Crazy Socks. Public speaker, advocate, and role model for inclusion. Entrepreneur with Down Syndrome.

Together, they share:

• Their personal family story, including John's early medical challenges and the expectations others placed on him.
• How their family philosophy—“With us, not for us”—has shaped John’s autonomy, independence, and confidence.
• The origin story of John’s Crazy Socks: a 21-year-old with vision and determination creating his own business when he couldn’t find employment he loved.
• How their company intentionally hires people with differing abilities and why that workforce has become their greatest competitive advantage.
• Their advocacy efforts, including speaking at the U.N., testifying before Congress, and pushing to end sub-minimum wage laws that allow people with disabilities to be paid as little as 5 cents per hour.

Key Themes & Takeaways

1. Never underestimate ability.
John’s story challenges assumptions and reminds families to give children space to try, fail, and succeed.

2. “With us, not for us.”
John makes his own decisions. Support is available, but autonomy is essential.

3. Entrepreneurism is for everyone.
If a job doesn’t exist or isn’t welcoming—create one. Entrepreneurship can be a path to independence and purpose.

4. Disability is not a burden.
Mark shares how his son has made him a better man—and how societal messaging can unintentionally diminish a child’s perceived potential.

5. Advocacy matters.
The Cronins use their platform to champion policy change—especially the fight to end sheltered workshops and sub-minimum wage practices.

Memorable Quotes

“Please, don’t ever apologize for my son.” — Mark
“With us, not for us. It’s my life, and I get to make my choices.” — John
“We don’t lower the standards—every employee earns their job.” — Mark
“Never underestimate their ability. Give them the chance to figure it out.” — Valerie

Connect with Mark and John

johnandmarkcronin.com; abilitiesrising.com; johnscrazysocks.com

Connect with Valerie

info@foreverhomeconsulting.ca

Music Acknowledgement: Audio Coffee - Denys Kyshchuk

Editor: Scott Arbeau

Link for book: The S.H.I.N.E. Principle: The special needs mom's path to strength, hope and happiness by Valerie Arbeau

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0CW18ZXGX (Canada)

https://a.co/d/03hFdZI4 (United States)

Thank You for Listening

If this episode encouraged or inspired you, share it with another parent or caregiver.
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Learn more about your host at:
https://coachingwithvalerieanne.com/

Transcript

Mark

Then you turn 21. And now school is done. And the big challenge there is I see a trio of jobs, you know, employment, housing, and community. Yeah. How can John, how can our colleagues get a job or earn a living? Where are they gonna live? And how can they gain access to the community?

(Music)

Valerie

Hello and welcome to Forever Home for our kids with disabilities. I'm Valerie, mum to two with disabilities, one visible, one invisible. I'm a life coach and an author. This space has been created to help you navigate the journey of creating a secure, sustainable, forever home for your child. We'll chat with parents on this path, realtors, financial planners, and other experts who can make the process easier.

Why am I so passionate about this? Because seeing my eldest thrive living independent of us was a gift I didn't always know I could give. I want you to have the opportunity to explore giving that gift to your child.

Valerie

Welcome to another episode of Forever Home for our kids with disabilities. I'm so glad that you're here. And I just want to introduce our guests for today. I have two guests today. We have Mark X. Cronin, and he is a social entrepreneur, policy leader, and passionate advocate for disability inclusion. As co-founder of John's Crazy Socks and Abilities Rising, he builds mission-led businesses that create opportunity and spark change. Mark earned his master's from Harvard and has led healthcare reform as the leader of Medicare Healthcare Services in New York City. Founded healthcare management and consulting firms, advised a variety of companies and nonprofits, and taught at Columbia and NYU. He's a two-time TEDx speaker, published author, and winner of the EY Entrepreneur of the Year Award. Yay!

Mark

That's a lot! You make us sound good!

Valerie

And John is with us. John is the youngest of three boys and has Down Syndrome. He lives with his parents and is the co-founder with his dad of John's Crazy Socks, the world's largest sock store. Their newest venture is Abilities Rising, a purpose-driven mission advancing inclusion through business, coaching, and storytelling. John serves as Chief Happiness Officer and is the public face of their brand.

John and Mark have been named EY Entrepreneurs of the Year, testified before Congress, and spoken at the United Nations. Welcome, Mark! Welcome, John!

John

Wow! Valerie, we thank you so much! I will put it on your podcast.

Mark

We do need to add something. You mentioned that we've testified before Congress. That is true, but people should know we were not subpoenaed.

Valerie

Thank you for clarifying that, Mark. Thank you.

Valerie

Alright, so I'm going to address Mark first. Tell us a little bit about your journey as a dad to John.

Mark

Well, it began the same way it does with everybody else. You have a kid, you know? He happened to be our third child. We got married young or certainly felt like young. We didn't have kids for like 10 years. We spent our 20s the way many people spent their 20s, trying to figure things out, bouncing around, going to this school, that job. But as we approached 30, my bride came to me and said, "Alright, big fella, it is time. We're going to have those children." And she told me she wanted to have three children. She wanted them to be three years apart and all born in the first part of the year.

Valerie

Okay. 

Mark

Our eldest is now 35, was born in January. Our second is now 32, born in March. And John is 29, born in February. My wife controls the universe.

Valerie

It would appear.

Mark

By the time John's coming along, it's like we did get a curve ball when he was born with Down syndrome. And it just meant things were a little different. There was a rocky start, and this is relevant, I think, to your audience here. We didn't know he was going to be born with Down syndrome. My wife had an emergency C-section middle of the night, and the covering OB came in afterwards. After they told us, "Oh, you got a healthy baby boy." Came in afterwards and said, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I have bad news for you. It appears that your son may have a slight case of Down syndrome". Now, this is awful, because Valerie, you have kids. You have two kids, right? Yes. The only thing a parent should hear is, "Congratulations." 

Valerie

Right

Mark

And please, don't ever apologize for my son. 

Valerie

Right.

Mark

But that clue does seem to a lot of the negativity that would face. I remember the first day, a very close relative, came in. I know she meant well. But when your child is born, everything is possible. My kids could grow up to play center field for the New York Yankees. Now, if I stopped and thought about it, nobody with my genes is going to be playing center field for the New York Yankees. But it's possible. And she looked at us and said, "You know, these kids are doing more nowadays. Maybe someday he'll grow up and push a broom at Burger King."

Valerie

Oh.

Mark

And I got up and I walked out of the room into the hall and just broke down in tears and cried. Because this is what people were setting as expectations. And John, like many people with Down syndrome, was born with some significant medical challenges. Yes. On day three of his life, he had intestinal surgery.

Valerie

Oh, wow.

Mark

We didn't know if he could survive. I brought a Catholic priest into the hospital, into the NICU, to baptize him. He did. But John, like about 50 percent of people born with Down syndrome, had a significant heart defect. He had two holes in his heart. He couldn't grow. His heart couldn't keep up. Put it in some perspective. When John was born, you weighed six pounds, six ounces. Wow. Imagine being that tiny. Three months later, he weighed six pounds, five ounces. 

Valerie

Oh, wow. 

Mark

He couldn't grow. So he needed open heart surgery. And again, we didn't know if he could survive that operation, but he couldn't live without it. 

Valerie

Right.

Mark

And as John grew, he faced other challenges. One of them, he couldn't talk. He learned sign language to communicate. So, a lot of the challenge, I think all of us parents face, those of you listening, it's like, you know, what's the become of my child? What chance does this child have in the world? 

Valerie

Right.

Mark

Well, here's the good news. My partner over here, he's grown up to start an e-commerce business. 

John

I am.

Mark

To become an entrepreneur. You like being an entrepreneur, don't you? 

John

I do. I love it. 

Mark

You know, you've mentioned some of the speaking we travel the country to in speaking engagements. So, the young boy who couldn't talk now is a paid public speaker. 

Valerie

Amazing. 

Mark

And you like to say you're just getting started, right? 

John

Yes.

Mark

And as a parent, you know, all along, we took the same approach we did with our two older boys, which is we're going to promote your independence, which is challenging sometimes because it means you've got to let your kids fail. 

Valerie

Yes. 

Mark

And particularly those of us who are parents with a child with a disability, we tend to be overly protective, understandably so. But in many ways, I think that hurts our kids.

Mark

And a lot of it's silly. You know, I mean, our two older boys, I guess the oldest was like sixth grade. He started like shaving logos in his head and a Yankee logo. And then he grew his hair long and my wife kept coming to me saying, he looks terrible. You got to do something about this. I'm like, who cares? He's in the sixth grade. Who cares? Give him that opportunity to have some autonomy over something. And so John taught us about, you know, look at the possibilities in people. Yes. Look at what can be done.

Mark

And you're still teaching us. 

John

I do. 

Mark

Teaching us humility, gratitude. One of the things that we would hear when John was born and many of the parents, you know, you probably heard something similar to this. "Oh, God would not give you a burden unless he knew you could handle it." Well, a couple of things. First, that's a very odd view of the cosmos. God is somehow floating around and he looks down and he says, "Well, they seem to be going well for them. Let's see if they can handle this." Boom.

Mark

It also assumes that my child is a burden. 

Valerie

Right. 

Mark

And that's not the case. Here's what you know and here's what I know. We are better people because of our children. 

Valerie

Absolutely.

Mark

John has made me a better man and I'm incredibly grateful for that.

Mark

So that's a little bit of the journey. You know, we spend time as parents, one of the things we learn early on our most valuable resource is time. So, I walked away from, you know, some big jobs so I could be home and then managed, you know, before it was 'cool'. Now it's cool. Back then, nobody knew I would work out of the house and I was insisting that that's what I would do so I could be around. You know, there's some notion that, well, you just have to get them to school and then things take over. Nonsense. Junior high and high school. Boy, (laughs),

Valerie

It's tough. It's tough.

Mark

So that was some of the journey.

Valerie

Thank you so much for sharing. I really appreciate that. And John, I hope you don't mind that dad was talking about you. Is that OK?

John

I love it. 

Valerie

All right. All right. So I have heard that you guys have a motto that John lives by. So either one of you can answer this question. Tell us what it is and what it means to your family.

Mark

I think she's talking about "With us, not for us". 

John

Yeah. 

Mark

Go ahead.

John

It did feel important to me that this is part of my life and without no force. I make more of the decisions on my own and it makes me feel so good.

Mark

It's we can help John. 

John

Yes. 

Mark

And you know, he's a curious young man. He has lots of questions and when he needs help, he asked for it. We can help him. But it's his life. Yes. He gets to make his decisions. And one way I think of it is I get to screw up my life. He gets to screw up his life. We all have that inalienable right.

Mark

So far you haven't done that. You haven't screwed things up. You're better off than I was. And that's it. Right. Do you believe that "With us, not for us"?

John

Yeah.

Mark

You prove it all the time. Don't you?

John

Yeah. It was the best. 

Mark

Yeah.

Valerie

Yeah. Love it. John, 

John

Yes. 

Valerie

What's it like being the youngest of three boys?

John

I love to be the youngest of three of the boys. That, it's really important to me. I would be like with my brothers, like Jamie and Patrick. And they so supportive and I'm pretty lucky and I'm really happy. And only I care about my brothers and my dad. It's the main thing. I would be with my family. And I'm really happy.

Valerie

I'm so glad to hear that. That's lovely.

Mark

One of the things that I've kind of observed, when you're inside a family, all you see are the differences. So we have three boys, three young men. They all seem so different. And you wonder, how is this possible? You know, the same environment. And yet when you're outside the family, all you see are the similarities. 

Valerie

Yes. 

Mark

All you see is how they, oh boy, those three Cronin boys, how they're all the same. Be good you being like your brothers. 

John

I do. I really wanted you to do that. You know, I want me and my brothers. I want to be like them.

Mark

Yeah. Well, you are, but you're your own self.

John

I do.

Mark

Right.

Valerie

Yes.

Mark

Nobody else gets to be you.

John

I want to share something of my heart to my brothers. (Valerie) Sure.

John

Jamie and Patrick, I love you.

Mark

And his brothers were great. When his oldest brother Patrick went away to college, we were having a tough time at home, part of the presenting condition within our family, it's not Down syndrome. Down syndrome is easy. Both my wife and my middle son have suffered at times from a pretty significant and chronic depression. And so, when the eldest went off to college, they were tough things at home. Well, he wanted to make sure he was looking after John. So, he called John every day. (Valerie) Wow. Right? (John) Yeah. To check in with you, make sure things look good by you.

John

Yeah.

Mark

That's a good brother.

John

He is. He's the best brother. And also, I want to share one thing. (Mark) Go ahead. And it makes me so good. Patrick is the best brother. He is, Patrick and my sister-in-law, Emily. Sit down with me. This is around 2020. She asked me, this is a big honour. That, they want me to be the ring bearer.

Mark

Oh, the ring bearer at their wedding.

John

At their wedding.

Mark

You like that.

Valerie

Oh, wow.

John

Make me, I'm so honoured. And I'm so happy that they said that with me.

Mark

You know, you said your kids in the early twenties. So Patrick and Emily have their first child who's just over a year old.

Valerie

Oh, wow.

Mark

Watch our son as a parent. And he's a good dad, isn't he? 

John

He, Patrick is the best father. 

Mark

He's a good dad.

Valerie

Yes. I love that. Well, thank you so much for sharing a little bit about your life with your brothers, John. That's amazing. I'm so glad that you have such a beautiful relationship and that you are able to be the ring bearer at your big brother's wedding. That's amazing. 

Valerie

Okay. So, I love that you guys are advocates for inclusion employment. So tell us a little bit more about that.

Mark

So, we had this business and part of our mission, What's our mission, now? 

John

A spread happiness. 

Mark

And we do that by showing what people with different abilities can do. And how did we get there? Well, it starts with my partner. You have Down syndrome. 

John

Yeah.

Mark

It was his idea to start this business. He was the impetus for it. And we could talk about that, you know, the 21-year-old cliff and what are you going to do when school ends.

Mark

But we don't put John in the back. We don't hide him. You're right up front. (John) Yes. You're the face of the business. (John) I am. So that's part of it. We wanted the world to see, look what a young man with Down syndrome could do. And early on, it was just the two of us starting and we needed some extra hands. What did we do? We got two of his classmates. And they were terrific. And, you know, here's the thing. And, you know, over time, one of the things we do, we do our own fulfillment. And anybody who sells e-commerce, how are you going to fulfill your orders? Orders come in? You pick them, you pack them, and you send them out. It's a pick and pack warehouse. It's a boom industry. Many people outsource it. We do it ourselves because we're looking to create jobs and want to personalize things. So over our nine years, we have filled those jobs through three different labor pools. People with different abilities. Moms.

John

Yeah. Moms

Mark

Because we schedule people in four-hour shifts. So you could put your kid on the bus in the morning, come to work and pick your kid up in the afternoon. Now there have been some dads in there. And general labourers who want a starting wage of $17.50 an hour in a place where you're going to be treated pretty well. Nice. By far the best labor pool for us are people with different abilities. 

Valerie

Wow.

Mark

They're enthusiastic. They want to be here. They care about the work. They work hard. They focus on what they're doing. They don't miss time. It's a great workforce. It gives us a competitive advantage. And you know, we sometimes joke about this. We don't give out jobs to anybody. We don't lower our standards. Everybody who works here has earned that job and to work in our warehouse, right? Our pickers. What do we call our pickers? 

John

Sock wranglers. 

Mark

You got to pass the sock wrangler test. So if you got to know us, Valerie, you'd find out that John here is a very nice guy. 

John

I am Dad. 

Mark

I am not. If you're going to work here, you got to produce. And you know what? That's part of the dignity. Everybody knows they've earned this right. They deserve to be. And they do such great work.

Valerie

Yes. Thank you so much. So the statement, "Entrepreneurism is an option for all, including people with different abilities." So is that a phrase that you coined?

Mark

Well, we said it. I don't know if there's ever been an original idea, maybe Shakespeare added in one of his plays. It's something we believe. We've been incredibly fortunate. We've received a lot of media attention and social media attention. People will listen to us. "Look, you've invited us on your podcast. How wonderful is that?"

Mark

But that creates an obligation on our part to speak out and we do that. We have a platform and people are going to listen to us. Sometimes it's over what to me seem to be simple and frustrating things. Here's an example. Last week, 'Kid Rock', the, I don't know if you'd call him a rock star, a country star, a rap star, I don't know what. But he appeared on an interview show on the Fox News channel. And he and the host, Jesse Waters, got around to talking about Halloween costumes. And Kid Rock proudly pronounced, "I'm going to dress up as a retard." Oh. He started making jokes. And Jesse Waters, the host, just laughed.

Mark

And so we did what we could do. We sent out a letter to him. We published that letter online and publicly to say, you know, "What are you doing?" And there were two things. As there frequently are. There was the initial act and then the reaction to it. And when the host, the television host, just started laughing along, he's normalizing it. It was justifying. So we get to do things like that to speak up. 

Mark

But I'll give you an example. This is a fun one, right? We go to Capitol Hill twice a year. And a customer from Houston called the office and said, you know, my mother works on Capitol Hill. And she's a big fan of John's. Do you think my mother could meet John? And our colleague said, sure. Here's Mark's cell number. Have your mother text her contact information. You'll get a hold of her. Who was mom? 

John

Nancy Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi. 

Valerie

Oh, wow.

Mark

Now we're in a bad way in this country. Too often, if we disagree with people, we vilify them. And we lose their sense of humanity. So I don't care where you are in the political spectrum, right, left, up, down. You know, let's remember these are people. And Nancy Pelosi at her roots. She's an 80-year-old Italian grandmother. So we come in to meet her, and she's so warm and nice and hugging John and taking pictures. And she took out photos of socks that she had given former president Bush, George H.W. Bush, because John had somewhat famously been sock buddies with the former president.

Valerie

Oh, okay.

Mark

And this is all quite wonderful. But you see, we now have this opportunity. We have to use that.

Valerie

Yes.

Mark

So when everything was done, it was like, Ms. Pelosi, we do need to sit down because we have to talk about getting rid of the sub-minimum wage. We have to repeal Section 14(c) of the Fair Labor Standard Act of 1938. 

Valerie

Wow. 

Mark

Which allows people with a disability to be paid as little as five cents an hour. 

Valerie

What? 

Mark

And that's not tenable today. I'll put it in some historical context. The Fair Labor Standard Act of 1938 is a great piece of American legislation. It created a 40-hour work week. It created a minimum wage. It got rid of child labor. But in 1938, somebody like John, he was born, A, probably wouldn't have survived infancy, right? They weren't going to do those operations. And B, would have been institutionalized. 

Valerie

Yeah.

Mark

And so there were in places, and the only places that did anything with people were charities. 

Valerie

Yes. 

Mark 

And so it was like, just give them a little something. Okay, we'll give them ten cents an hour. Well, it's not 1938 anymore. No. And what those became known as were sheltered workshops. And they were run by some of the largest charitable organizations and nonprofits in the country. And their theory was, you would start there, but you would ramp up to employment. The reality is, you never leave. 

Valerie

Yeah. 

Mark

And you get stuck there. 

Valerie

Right.

Mark

Many places have given them up. Goodwill, which is actually a bunch of series of chapters. Most of their organizations have given them up. There's a large employment organization in Maryland called Melwood. Terrific organization. They used to run. They've given it up. And so we've been campaigning to get rid of this. There are some people that are not suitable for employment, or they're not ready for employment. But let's not call that a job. Let's not demean others. And let's keep working because people get stuck in these traps. 

Valerie

Yes. 

Mark

And here's an example of it. We were on a show once, oh, I forget the name of the charity, but they ran a sheltered workshop in Las Vegas. And there people put together toiletry kits for the casinos. So they put little bags and they put the little soap in the shampoo and stuff. Well, you know, the executives at those casinos, they're just printing money. And the executives at that nonprofit, they were getting paid a full salary. Everybody was being paid a full salary except the people doing the work. And that's not tenable. 

Mark

So we do things like that. One of the things we do here, we want other people to see things. So we use our social media to do that. No broccoli. Nothing your mother says, this is good for you. Sit down and eat it. It's got to be entertaining and show people as they are.

Valerie

Yes.

Mark

We host tours and work groups from high schools and social service agencies. Who gives the tours? 

John

I am.

Mark

You give the tour.

John

Yes.

Mark

More than 4,000 people have taken a tour with John. 

Valerie

Wow. 

Mark

And it's really important for people with differing abilities to see people like themselves working. 

Valerie

Yes. 

Mark

In the business because then it becomes possible. 

Valerie

Yes.

Mark

Then there's a path.

Valerie

Thank you so much for sharing that. I had no idea about the labor and the people being undervalued, I guess would be the word. 

Mark

Yes. 

Valerie

They were being undervalued and people were willing to stand by and let that happen before.

Mark

The way I think of it, and this is maybe a little stark, the great blemish on our constitution and the founding of the country was slavery.

Mark

We built into the constitution that a slave only counted as three fifths of a person when it came to the census and counting the population.

Valerie

Oh. 

Mark

That's what we're doing here.

Valerie

Yeah.

Mark

We are saying there are certain people that are not fully human and that's outrageous.

Valerie

I would agree with that.

Mark

You mentioned that when before we hopped on that a lot of the listeners out there are parents of children with different abilities. Some may be young, some may be like you were aging. I have this kind of oversimplified view that we've done a great job on the medical front. John has testimony to that. 

Valerie

Yes. 

Mark

We've done a pretty good job on the educational front through high school. It varies from state to state, school district to school district. But overall, we've done a pretty good job. Then you turn 21 and now school is done. And the big challenge there is I see a trio of jobs, employment, housing and community. How can John, how can our colleagues get a job or a living?

Where are they going to live? And how can they gain access to the community? They've been patient with us. John has been patient with us, waiting for us to catch up. So it's not us doing them a favour. It's them helping us out.

Valerie

Yes, absolutely. No, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that, Mark. I know some of our audience might be wondering why I have you two amazing guests on today. But I wanted to highlight the fact that whether your child with differing abilities, disabilities or special needs, whatever term you want to use, the fact that they want to contribute to society, they want to feel like they're part of society and giving back to society as well. They want to feel useful and they want to have meaning in their life. So my oldest taught me when she was quite young, never to underestimate her ability. I remember when she was quite young, she was laying on the floor with a portable keyboard and she was pressing the keys and making music, quote unquote, and she accidentally turned up the volume. It was just a little lever thing and she accidentally turned that up. And I had an aide who was working with her standing beside me and she asked me, would Melody Ann be able to turn that down? I said, oh, probably not.

As soon as the words come out of my mouth, she took her hand and pulled down that lever and turned down the volume. And it was if she was saying, "Ya, Mom, watch me." Right. From that day, I have never underestimated her ability because it's so easy to do and we get into the habit of doing and doing for our children. But we learned from that experience, let her figure it out. Give them the chance to figure it out, to learn the skills of problem solving.

Mark

Yes. And sometimes as a parent, it's easier for us to do something to let John or another one of our children do it, but how are they going to learn? 

Valerie

Exactly. Exactly.

Mark

It's a challenge. I can think of an incident with John. I think people may know you mentioned in the beginning, you know, we have a business, John's Crazy Socks. Whose idea was it? 

John

It's my idea. 

Mark

Because John was finishing school and like everybody else trying to figure out what comes next. And what were you looking at?

John

I was looking at a job, a program, and sure, I can't find a job that I like.

Mark

He couldn't find anything he liked. But John here is a natural entrepreneur. If he couldn't find a job, you'd create your own, right? 

John

I did. 

Mark

What'd you tell me?

John

I told my dad I want to go into business with him. I never thought we would stop being together.

Mark

It was his idea. Let's go into business then. But even before that, I can look back now and see things where John was entrepreneurial and establishing himself. Little things like in school, they wanted to put him on the "little bus". John, right from kindergarten, wanted nothing to do with that. He wanted to be in the same bus as his brothers. Why could he not do that?

John, they gave him an aide in school. John wanted nothing to do with the aide. I can do this. Well, you know, we got to like in junior high, "we got to make sure you get the class on time". "I'll get the class on time." There was one time John was attending the summer school program in our school district. And I ran into the principal in town and she said, well, you must be so proud of John and the talent show he's organizing. I said I have no idea what you're talking about. Well, my partner here decided the school should have a talent show, right?

John

Yeah!

Mark

And you put together a plan.

John

I did.

Mark

And you even put together a presentation on your iPad. 

John

Yes I did. 

Mark

And he went in and met with the principal and pitched this and said, we're going to do this. And who's going to tell him no. And then he went around and organized the whole school. And he didn't tell me because he didn't want any help and you wanted to surprise us with this show. Well, that's pretty cool.

Valerie

Absolutely. Well done, John.

Valerie

Awesome.

Valerie

All right. So I know for going back to my oldest daughter, she will never be in the workforce. And I'm just so grateful to you, John, for what you have done with your business, with your dad, that it was your idea that you enjoyed it. So congratulations for that. I know with my daughter, she will never be in the workforce, but I know that she does participate in volunteer work. So that for her is giving her meaning in life, which is critical for all of us. So she participates. And this was actually interesting. She kept saying the name of the elementary school that she was going to. She uses a communication device and she kept on saying the name of the school. We couldn't figure out why she was kind of bringing it up and she couldn't give us any more words around what it was she was doing. Finally, it clicked. She wanted to go back there and volunteer. So she's been going back to her elementary school and volunteering there. And then she's also helped with parks and recreation in our city, helping clean up one of the parks that we have that's south of where we live. So I just want to say to our audience, don't ever underestimate your child. They want to give back to the community. They want to have a meaningful life just as you do. So give them the opportunity, create opportunities, because sometimes they're not there. And just as John did, John went out there and created the business with his dad.

Mark

Focus on what people can do, not what they can't do. One of the things I repeat to people is never, never focus on what people can't do. Be awed by their possibilities. And here's an example. There's a guy out of Vermont who has a business called Purely Patrick. Patrick puts together pre-mixes of cookies and cakes. Patrick has CP, and he has difficulty moving and doing things. But this he can do. He can pour things into containers. So he built a business around that. And it's very cool. 

Valerie

Yes. 

Mark

And he found out that's something he can do. All of us have limitations. My wife still questions me on this, but I'm old. 

John

You're old. 

Mark

I am old. Summer in 1980, we were in the midst of recession. It was hard finding work. I had just graduated from college. I had no idea what I was doing. And I wound up down on Cape Cod looking like for summer jobs. And it was really hard to find. Now they're, you know, they can't find enough workers. And so at one point I got a job working in a hotel, in a motel down there, as a housekeeper. Well, it turns out, you know, one part of that job was I had to make beds. And a poor woman who hired me was going behind me room to room and remaking every bed because I couldn't make a bed no matter how hard I tried. And finally, after three days, I resigned. I said, this isn't right. You can't keep doing this. And she was so relieved. She wouldn't have to fire me. But, you know, it turns out that's something I couldn't do. You know, we don't ask John to do our finances, but nobody gives a better tour. Right. Nobody represents us better. And the difference that a job can make, we could tell you lots of stories. But I'm going to share one. I'm going to tell about Thomas. Okay?

John

That's going to be good.

Mark

You like the story about Thomas. 

John

Yeah, it's good. 

Mark

So Thomas is one of our sock wranglers. His mother first called us up in October of 2017 and said, I hear you hire people like my son. You have to get my son a job.

Valerie

Oh, okay. 

Mark

And our colleagues said, well, you know, we don't have any openings, but we'll post it on our social media or something. You know, okay. She called every day because she's a mom. And I spoke to her and I said, tell me about Thomas. She said, well, Tom is, uh, is on the autism spectrum and he's in his early twenties and he's in a bad way. He's very depressed. We can't get him to join any programs. Heck, we have trouble getting just come out of his room. He doesn't want to shower or shave and he hasn't spoken to his father in over six months. 

Valerie

Wow.

Mark

Well, sounds like a wonderful employee. And when we had an opening, called her and you know, she called and said, bring Thomas out and Thomas passed that sock wrangler test as if he was put on this earth to be a sock wrangler. Today, the young man who wouldn't look at you or talk to you at 6:30 in the morning is showered and shaved and waiting for his father to drive him to work. Wow. And when he gets here, he goes around to the whole building wishing everybody a good morning. And last year stood up at his brother's wedding and to the joy of everyone there gave the best man toast.

Valerie

Oh, how sweet.

Mark

And I want to be really clear. We did nothing. No special training, no special programs. All we did was give Thomas the opportunity to earn a job.

Valerie

Yes.

Mark

And what a job he does.

Valerie

Yes. Amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, guys, for being here. I really appreciate it. Where can our audience go to find out a little bit more about you?

John

Johnscrazysocks.com. And check out our platform, we have the YouTube channel, we have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok.

Mark

And plus, we have a speaker's website. We didn't even get to talk about some things. We do a lot of speaking engagements. I have two books coming out in January (2026).

Valerie

Okay.

Mark

A pair, one of them is "Find a Job You Love: A Guide for People with Different Abilities and Their Families". 

Valerie

Nice. 

Mark

The companion book is "Using AI to Find a Job You Love: Step-by-step Guide for People with Different Abilities and Their Families". And we will offer them some free webinars on those as well as some courses that people want to take step-by-step and they want instructions on - here are things you can do to earn a job.

Valerie

Love it. Thank you so much. Well, I'll be looking forward to checking out those books when they're released next year. Next year will be here before we know it. 

All right. So, before we conclude our conversation today, gentlemen, I'd love to hear some words of encouragement from you to parents who are raising children with differing abilities. What message would you like to share with them to offer some inspiration and some hope?

Mark

Well, I'll start and then you (John) go. Okay. 

John

Yeah Dad. 

Mark

First, relax. You're doing better than you think.

Valerie

Mm-hmm.

Mark

Second, let others know, you know, you're not alone. Yeah. Connect with others. Yeah. And third, just savor all the moments we get with our kids. It goes by fast.

Valerie

Mm-hmm. I agree. 

Mark (to John)

Do you have advice for people?

John

Yes. Follow your heart. Follow your dreams. Work hard.

Mark

It's all you can do. 

Mark 

Yeah, pretty good.

Valerie

Thank you so much. Thanks so much gentlemen. Audience, I want you to remember to Live with Intention - Embrace the Journey.

Valerie

Thanks for joining me today on Forever Home for our kids with disabilities. I hope today's episode gave you something new to think about and it increased your confidence on your journey. If you found this episode helpful, do tell others about it. Use the text feature to let me know your questions. Tell me what you want to know. Until next time, take care and keep building your child's future.

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