Canadian Estate Planning, Advocacy, and the RDSP — with Gordon VanderLeek

In this episode, Valerie sits down with Gordon VanderLeek, founder of VanderLeek Law and a nationally respected voice in estate planning and disability advocacy. As both a lawyer and a father of five adopted children, three with long-term disabilities, Gordon brings rare professional expertise grounded in lived experience.

They explore what it truly means to plan for a child’s future when lifelong supports are required, with a particular focus on the Registered Disability Savings Plan (RDSP) and how it fits into a comprehensive forever home strategy.

Gordon VanderLeek is the founder and managing lawyer of VanderLeek Law, with a practice focused on wills, estates, trust planning, and guardianship for families impacted by disability. He holds the Trust and Estate Practitioner (STEP) designation and is a member of the Canadian Bar Association’s Wills and Estates Section.

Alongside his wife Annie, Gordon co-founded Disability Advocates, a division of the firm dedicated to helping families navigate complex social service systems through practical, compassionate advocacy.

Gordon hosts two podcasts, the latter with Annie: Estates Made Simple and We Advocate.

You’ll learn

-Gordon’s personal journey as a foster and adoptive parent navigating disability, education systems, and advocacy

-Why estate planning for families with disabilities is fundamentally different—and where many families unintentionally go wrong

-The origin and purpose of the Registered Disability Savings Plan (RDSP)

-How the RDSP works, including: Government grants and bonds, Contribution limits and timelines, Why starting early matters

-How RDSPs interact with government income supports like AISH (Alberta)

-A critical but often-overlooked downside of RDSPs: what happens when the beneficiary passes away

-When an RDSP is ideal—and when alternative strategies may be more appropriate

-Why advocacy is often required to access supports (and why “no” is not always the final answer)

-The importance of guardianship and trusteeship planning

-Why long-term planning must address both financial security and human support

-Words of encouragement for parents raising a child with disabilities

Key Takeaways

-The RDSP is one of the most powerful financial tools available to Canadians with disabilities—but it must be used thoughtfully within a broader plan (https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/registered-disability-savings-plan-rdsp.html)

-Government systems are complex and siloed; families should not be expected to navigate them alone

-Advocacy is not optional—it is often the difference between access and exclusion

-Planning ahead is an act of love, not fear

-Parents and partners must care for each other in order to sustain the long journey ahead

Live with Intention – Embrace the Journey

Connect with Gordon VanderLeek

Website: vanderleeklaw.ca

Disability Advocacy Services: disabilityadvocates.ca

Connect with Valerie

info@foreverhomeconsulting.ca

Music Acknowledgement: Audio Coffee - Denys Kyshchuk

Editor: Scott Arbeau

Link for book: The S.H.I.N.E. Principle: The special needs mom's path to strength, hope and happiness by Valerie Arbeau

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0CW18ZXGX

Learn more about your host at:
https://coachingwithvalerieanne.com/

Transcript

In the overall planning, the RDSP is a way of funneling some money and leveraging the government contributions. Obviously, it benefits those who are of a younger age so that, you know, there's the money's in there, it gets contributed and then just continues to grow and grow and grow. 

Hello and welcome to Forever Home for our kids with disabilities. I'm Valerie, mom to two with disabilities, one visible, one invisible. I'm a life coach and an author. This space has been created to help you navigate the journey of creating a secure, sustainable forever home for your child. We'll chat with parents on this path, realtors, financial planners, and other experts who can make the process easier. Why am I so passionate about this? Because seeing my eldest thrive living independent of us was a gift I didn't always know I could give. I want you to have the opportunity to explore giving that gift to your child. 

Thank you everyone for being here today. Welcome to the show. We're just so happy you're here. We are so grateful that you take the time to listen to this podcast. And we have a doozy of a guest for you today. We have Gordon Vanderleek, and he serves as the founder and managing lawyer of Vanderleek Law. While his focus is on planning, Gordon also enjoys the process of resolving disputes regarding estates or for guardianship and trusteeship. Gordon enjoys making the complex area of estate law simple when he presents in webinars and seminars. And Gordon is a member of the Executive of the Wills and Estates South section of the Canadian Bar Association. He received the Trust and Estate Practitioner designation by Membership in Society of Trust and Estate Planners, also abbreviated as STEP in 2019. He is a father of five adopted children, three of whom have long-term disabilities. Gordon has been a frequent speaker on the topic of estate planning for families that have children with special needs, including topics of trust planning, AISH rules, Registered Disability Savings Plan, to name just a few. In the fall of 2009, the firm established a division named disability advocates led by his wife, Annie. And Gordon and Annie started the We Advocate podcast this fall. Gordon is the host of the podcast Estates Made Simple, which was launched in 2003. 

Welcome, Gordon. 

It's just a delight to be here and to, you know, have another good conversation. I guess the difference is we're hitting the record button now instead of a conversation we would otherwise have. And thanks to all those who are tuning in and listening. I had the benefit of starting to listen to your podcast, and I certainly encourage others to do the same. You're covering some great topics and just a delight to be a guest on your podcast and looking forward to our conversation. 

Thank you, Gordon. Thank you. So, Gordon, I ask everyone, tell us a little bit about your special needs journey as a dad. 

Well, it started, our oldest is now 38. So I think she came to us when she was four years old. The journey for my wife and I were as foster parents. I mean, that's how it started. So if you want to go before that, it also, and we've spoken about this publicly, is struggling with infertility. So we went through that whole period of time and saying, hey, we wanted to have a family, but were unable to, but said, I think maybe we have something to contribute to children or that would be good. So we were certainly looking through the adoption process and going through all the alternatives. But then said, let's do fostering. So we became foster parents and did that for 10 years. Well, let me fast forward to say that our family came about as a result of that. And you could argue we were not good foster parents because these are all kids that came and stayed. Whereas the goal of fostering is reunification, where the children would be reestablished. There were two children, actually, that went back to their families. But for the most part, they came and stayed. It turned into long-term placements, although that wasn't the original design. So sometimes we have sort of a mixed bag, if you will, a potpourri, a Heinz 57, or, you know, just a smattering of our kids all from various different backgrounds, right? The one thing in common is that they came to us through the fostering system. So we just, it all turned into long-term placement. We didn't plan on five, but as opportunities came along, we said, okay, well, let's do this and add a little bit of water to the soup and off you go. And sort of, well, we'll figure out how to do it along the way. So some people say, well, five, that's not normal. How I explained it to my parents going, well, “Are you going to keep doing this?” Is there an end to the number of kids you're going to take on? I said, well, we filled up all the seatbelts in the minivan. So the next step would have been the yellow bus. So that seemed a little much. So we stopped at five. All various backgrounds, different families of origin on that. Two of the children are full brothers of each other, and two of our daughters are half-siblings. So, there was some common connection there. But yeah, it was kind of learning it on the fly has been our journey. And, no one gives you a playbook. You discover there are special needs. Some of these, you kind of have an inkling or you go, well, okay, you might suspect. But I think in all the circumstances, we learned it as we went along, right? And particularly as the kids entered the educational system, you started doing assessments, and beginning to realize, hey, they're falling behind. There are some issues there that we need to deal with. It may have manifested in the beginning with kind of some learning disabilities or needing some extra help and tutoring and things like that in school versus, you know, full-time TA. So a wide range of different services, different diagnoses, but certainly our parenting experience has been sort of figuring it out as we go along. And as I think many of your listeners will attest to, there's not a playbook. And you've got to do all those, you know, the words come up that we learned in the pandemic about pivoting and adjusting. And you did that as a parent, right? Certainly we did that through a ton of support with our community and friends. We certainly didn't do that alone or family supporting us along the way. But it was buckling down and trying to do the best you can every day. 

Absolutely. So yes, I think many of our listeners will be totally identifying with what you're saying. And five children. I know a lot of people have said to me, I'm one of five. I'm the oldest of five. My husband is the youngest of five. And a lot of people in this day and age are like five kids? So I can certainly appreciate what you're saying about having five children. So, I didn't want to have five children. We stopped at two. Just saying. Anyway….

The reality is we'd be hard pressed to say we would make a recommend(ation) “Oh, yeah, just go out and get five kids”. But that wasn't our journey. I mean, our journey was they came into our lives and we go, OK, we can figure this out. Right. So it was more of that as opposed to we had any element of control over it, if you will. I mean, as our control was to say, we want them to be in our home long term, and we'll figure it out as we go along. So not something you would say for the average family, go out and get five kids, but we would have it no other way, of course.

Right. And so sibling relationships, so how do they all get along? 

Yeah, and that's been interesting is that there's varying levels, right? And especially as they grow and you could argue in different phases of their lives, the relationship has been different. But there is not a family that's absent of stresses and conflicts or, you know, family gatherings where they're difficult, right? With all the issues we've had to deal with, that has created certain scenarios where there is that tension, right? And particularly in the context where children are not the same and, you know, arguably treatment is not equal. Some kids demanded more attention than others. You know, when the kids were younger, we were engaging in programs where some of the siblings could go and have peers that they could talk to and some counseling and or some interactions to just understand that whole process and start to deal with the emotions of that. If one or more of the children have special needs and there's others who are able-bodied or at different levels, then as a parent, you kind of have to respond to the needs. You can't say, well, I'm just going to give an equal amount of parenting to each kid. You have to respond if some needs more, and there's times where they do, where it creates certain stresses that becomes part of your journey, and you have to adapt and deal with that. So the equity is not equality, as the saying goes. You know, assess the needs and respond accordingly. So that certainly along the way has created friction in the sibling relationship. And again, just one of those things you have to try to manage as best you can, but it's definitely there. 

Mm-hmm. And so going to your work, and I mentioned in your bio that you started a disability advocacy in your law firm. So can you share with us a little bit about how that came about? 

Sure. For my wife, Annie, and I, just as a bit of background to that, she works full time or was working full time in the law firm. Had a different position, but that was suddenly cancelled. As I was starting my practice on my own, I was in 2008, prior to that, I was working as an associate lawyer at a variety of tax firms downtown and then started Vanderleek Law, if you will, in August of 2008. She had some opportunity to start doing some different administrative functions within the firm. What I was observing is that people were recognizing as a wills and estates lawyer that I had children with special needs and I was giving lots of talks on ‘What about estate planning for children’ in that situation, because there are right ways and wrong ways of passing an inheritance to a child with a long-term disability. So I was doing more and more work in that area, but recognizing there was a lot of work on the periphery that I was ill-equipped for. And that's where when Annie and I looked at it, I'm going, wait a minute, I got somebody here who's working in the office who's a pretty darn good advocate. You know, it's gotten really good results for our kids and kind of the mama bear approach of making sure the kids were well looked after and don't cross her. You know, she was a great advocate, is a great advocate. So really, I think if you asked her, it was looking at it from a perspective of her seeing that our kids were getting something different than parents of other kids with equal or even greater disabilities. And I think the inequity of that really stuck with her and saying, ‘Hey, that's not right. How come it's that way?’ Suffice it to say, and I think you'd be in agreement that the systems in place, at least here in Alberta, it's probably the same across Canada and in other jurisdictions, is the squeaky wheel gets the oil, right? And you just need to be the squeaky wheel. You need to not take no for an answer, and you need to work on being resilient in your efforts to get supports, but do it in a way that produces good results. And the reality, Annie, was just really good at that. For example, our one son had a full-time TA, which was almost unheard of in the school system, it was always shared, but he had full-time, right? But then we would see that kids were struggling even more than our son was, but yet maybe had quarter-time or half-time. Well, why is that? Right? That's not fair. So there was an element of that. From my perspective, I was looking at it going, if I'm doing the core legal work and suggesting, you know, when people are drafting their wills or handling all these issues, there could be lots of interactions with the social service system that require advocacy and assistance. But it's really not the type of matter that people would go to a lawyer for and going, well, that's just too expensive. So it's looking at it going, I need somebody to solve these problems. And the light bulb moment for me was when I gave a seminar on estate planning for special needs children. And in the parking lot afterwards, talking to an individual, and she was beside herself crying in my presence, talking about a problem of saying Canada Revenue Agency had denied her application. And she was beside herself as to what to do with regard to that. So, I just finished talking for probably two and a half, three hours about how you should plan for the future and you do all this stuff. And then for me, it was, if I don't solve that problem that she has with Canada Revenue Agency, which is kind of a quasi-legal matter, right? But it's not something, I mean, I could do it, but it's not sustainable. If I charge my full rate, it would be too much money. If I discounted my rate, I could maybe help her and a few other families, but I can't help a lot of families because then I'm out of business, I can't keep the lights on. So that's where we said, would there be a benefit of having a paralegal service, if you will, like a division of the firm? So we branded that, which we said, yes, we think there's an opportunity for this, that Annie could provide those interactions with the social service systems. Now, thankfully, in Alberta, where we're speaking from, there are generous programs in place. But there's an element of complexity. So it may be different in talking to families in the States. They don't have the level of programs that we might have in Canada. But if there are those programs, the reality is they all have different tests. There's different requirements. There's different procedures. And they're all siloed. It's not like you get a passport and you get access to all these programs. You have to apply individually. And on top of that, and this is probably maybe typical in other jurisdictions, is you can set it all up for your child when they're a minor. But when the child becomes an adult in Alberta, that's 18, might be 19 in other jurisdictions, or a different age, then typically those services stop and you have to go to adult services. Yes. Right. So then you have to apply in Alberta. That's the Assured Income for the Severely Handicapped Program that you're eligible at 18. Well, you may have supports in place, but you have to change that. Our one son, for example, wasn't able to live at home and had to be in a group home. Well, midnight of the 18th birthday, they go, well, you have to find somewhere else for him to go. Right. Well, they said that in advance, but not that far in advance of the 18th birthday. We're scrambling trying to find housing. So there's this hard transition from child services to adult services. So we saw a need for that. All of that to say is we needed a cost-effective solution that was sustainable on a long term basis to help as many families as possible with these quasi-legal matters. And that sort of was the birth of disability advocates and say, well, can we take these services of advocacy that as a law firm we do regularly, but, can we make it affordable and accessible to as many people as possible and get really specialized on that? So I could do the will for that lady in the parking lot, but I could send her to Annie to say, can you solve that problem? Because I can't get her to think about long range planning when she's just trying to get through the next day. 

Absolutely. 

We need to solve those stresses so just emotionally and intellectually they can begin to think about some of the broader planning opportunities that exist that I would be encouraging them to do by recognizing you got to get them to a point where they can even start thinking about that. That was a bit of our journey from different perspectives. That was the genesis of Disability Advocates. We said, well, let's try it for six months. Our very sophisticated business plan was, well, let's do letterhead. We'll get a phone line and buy a computer and go to the graphic designer and, you know, say, here's our corporate identity as a division of the firm. And if the phone's not ringing in six months, we'll shut it down. But we tried it. Suffice it to say, that was probably the fall of 2009 that was formally launched. And the phone has not stopped ringing, which is a bit of a testament, I think, to the complexity that's there. 

Yes. 

We are not a solution for everybody. A parent might say they can handle it very much on their own, but maybe we're just walking alongside them. But some people go, I just can't deal with it. It's not my strength. Can I hire you to be able to do this? So we thought, hey, it makes sense. As lawyers, that's what we do. We advocate, right? We can try to take something that's complex. And can we tell the story? And can we help them in these areas as a way to support the core legal work of estate planning or dealing with, you know, putting your will together, planning an estate, and all the legal issues associated with that. So that's how it started. I think in fast forward to 2025, if you'd ask my colleagues or other people that know us, it would say, well, that's kind of what we do, right, is we focus on the disability space. So it's really, we've actually taken away other areas of the practice that we used to practice and say we need to continue to focus more and more and really fine-tune. There's lots of areas of law we don't practice. We do the wills and estates and trust planning with the focus on the disability. I mean, most of the files I open up now involve a family member with a long-term disability. And, I think it's translated into doing a significant amount of work in guardianship and trusteeship. We're probably the leading firm in Alberta, just certainly by volume and I think by expertise over the years in navigating the whole process of guardianship and trusteeship, including contentious matters. Unfortunately, sometimes when there's a fight about who's going to look after the child or another person with a long-term disability, then you have to resort to the courts to get a resolution. We've had to be involved in some of those cases. So that's a bit of been our journey. 

Wow. And what a journey. And I love the fact that you responded to a need. And I love even more the fact that you can relate. And I'm pretty sure that's probably why you get a lot of business, because people know you can relate to them. Because this is not something, if you're not walking it, you really can't appreciate how difficult and complex it can be. 

That's a fair comment. And certainly one of the things I would say is, while there's lots of competent wills and estates lawyers in the city, in the province, I think one of our advantages we can empathize. We often say that there's really nothing a parent can say that's going to shock us. We've lived it. We've lived all manner of experiences. So I think that there is the core legal work but there's that factor of empathy that I think has translated into success which is our delight in that you know we can try to reach more and more people because we do understand that journey. 

Yeah, Yeah, love it, thank you so much for sharing how this all came about and I love the fact that it's still working for you the phone's still ringing and the biggest thing is many parents, many families are being helped so thank you so much for what you do. 

Well, we appreciate that. And then we've tried to grow the team. We recognize that we can't do this forever. There's an end of the runway at some point. We hope it's not for a long time, but we are building the team up. So there's other lawyers who share our passion and we're doing the training. And so it's more than just Annie and I, that we can build a firm that continues to provide services in this area of law. 

Love it. I love that you're forward thinking. And I'm just going to say, audience, this is why we're here. We want you to be forward thinking, planning for the future of your child, so that when you no longer can care for them, or when you're no longer here, that their life will continue. They will be provided for, they'll be safe, and they'll be loved, because you took the time to set them up. 

Well, let me add to that. I think it's commendable the work that you're doing. I mean, the reality is there's not a lot of people in this space. I think there's a good demand for your services just to walk alongside people. I mean, that's been our journey. And we said all along disability advocates is not replacing, it's walking alongside. If we can support, we're not going to be there for every family, but some families just need that little extra support or varying degrees of support. I think in terms of your coaching and your ability to say, hey, let's come up with a plan, a lot of people, they sort of understand that notionally, they just need help with it. And it's not too different than handling some of the legal or quasi-legal matters that we've been there. So, yeah, I just really encourage you in your journey and encourage the audience to explore those services. I guess with a view of you don't have to do it alone, right? And sometimes just having a little bit of support is as much as what you need to start making progress. 

Absolutely. Thank you so much for those kind words. So we're going to get into some of the nitty gritty stuff. So I'm just going to ask you, Gordon, can you shed some light on what an RDSP is, what the benefits are, and what the possible downside might be? 

Sure. So an RDSP, again, whenever you deal with a government program, it seems to reduce to an acronym, right? But it's a Registered Disability Savings Plan. So it goes back to the fall of 2008 when it was first established. Little fun fact: that Canada was the first jurisdiction in the world to create a savings plan for a disabled citizen, right, very first, and there may be others. I haven't done the research to say if other countries done it since, but we were the first; in large part I think due to the advocacy of a finance minister at the time Jim Flaherty, who I think was from Manitoba but was a parent of a child with special needs. So he very much understood the need for a parent needs to provide for that child when they're no longer there. And with his ability to corral the attention of the caucus, to be able to say we should lead and we should set this up. I mean, there's lots of organizations; The Plant Institute out of BC in particular was very active in getting this established. So it came into place in 2008, and it's a program where if you put in a certain amount of money into this savings plan, the government will make a contribution. Now, let me give you the formula that most people remember, and then we can talk a little bit about some of the details. And I'll speak a little bit of how does it fit in with estate planning or trust planning. But the magic formula to maximize the value of what the government is going to put in is if you put in $1,500 per year, the government will contribute $3,500. If you put in $2,000, they still are only contributing $3,500. If you only put in $1,000, then it would be proportionately less. So there's a bit of a formula, a one-to-one, then a two-to-one, then a three-to-one formula that max out to that end result. So rather than getting into the details of the formula, that's what you can remember. But certainly that's not the limit of what you can put in each month, but there's a cap of $200,000 you can put in during the period of time that the person is eligible for contributions, right? So the disabled person. It's a program for their benefit. They are the beneficiary of it. And then somebody will be in charge of it in terms of the holder of the plan and they will manage that money. So think of it kind of like a pension plan. Sometimes you may work for a large corporation and you have a pension plan. And this is kind of their pension plan, but the government is going to put in a total of $90,000 into this RDSP. It's $70,000 by way of a grant and $20,000 by way of a bond. Now, there's income tests for that. To get the bond, $1,000 a year, you have to make a very low sum of money, and then there are income restrictions with regard to the grant portion. You know, we can sort of put maybe some of that stuff in the show notes (https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/registered-disability-savings-plan-rdsp.html) for people to research further, but understand that there's a limit. But generally, if you are the parent of a child with special needs in Canada, it is a good idea to set up an RDSP and to come up with a plan with your financial planner to say, how do I maximize the government contribution? So in addition for you setting aside some money for this child, because they're not going to be working in a corporation and getting their own pension or setting up their own RRSPs, all the rest of it. It's a wonderful financial tool. And it can be there for a number of reasons. 

Reason number one, if the adult child is eligible for the government assistance program in Alberta called AISH, or Assured Income for the Severely Handicapped, then all the money in the plan and all the money coming out of the plan is exempt for the asset test under AISH. So this government support program called AISH and other jurisdictions in Canada have similar rules that you're only allowed to own so much money. In other words, it's a program for those of lesser means. If you have your own wealth, you don't get the government support. 

Right. 

So you can't own too much and you can't earn too much. So number one, we want to be very careful how we put funds in the hands of a disabled person. It's a great way to sort of give them some long-term money. You can make contributions until the year after they turn 49 and you can start pulling it out the year after they turn 59 on there. And if the money stays in for a longer enough period of time, then the government contributions that they put in this $70,000 of grants then becomes for the benefit of the child and there's no clawback. They have some more complicated rules that if you close it early or try to take the money out early, then it might be subject to clawback. So the government has really set up a whole bunch of rules to say this is long term money. 

Right.

So really, it does integrate very nicely into estate planning and trust planning. It typically, except for those of very modest means, doesn't replace that type of planning. Like, you can't say, well, if I have an RDSP, I don't need to worry about providing for that child in my will, or that they were going to be adequately provided for. Typically, you would say, well, it's one of the components of an overall plan for that child. But it definitely is very friendly in the context of ensuring qualifications for government supports, but it's really long-term money. 

Right. 

You did ask the question. It's not lost. Gordon, you sound like you're so, you know, giving it a glowing review. Why in the world would anybody not want to set up an RDSP? Sometimes what I've heard is that setting up an RDSP when the child is minor, there may not be much by way of contribution room because it's looking at the income of the parents. If there's both parents, they're going to go, they're making way too much money. They're not going to be eligible. It would really kick in at 18. From my perspective, though, any money you put in, still, when invested over the long term, is going to really maximize and create a large pool of money for the benefit of that child. So much the same way as we all put money aside in our RRSPs for when we are no longer working. We do that early on in life so that there's this exponential growth, kind of the hockey stick curve, right? Towards the tail end of that, we see the growth because it kind of builds on itself, because you started early. So any financial planner would say the sooner you start, the better. So while the benefits from the government may not be as pronounced when a child is minor, it's not nothing, to use a double negative. So it's still worth considering to set it up. 

The one place where there has been pause, and I want to bring this, it creates an important attribute of the RDSP. The RDSP shows up on the balance sheet of the kid. There is no beneficiary designation like there is for an RRSP, or a tax-free savings account, or other registered accounts. So it's a registered account, but you can't designate a beneficiary. So when the child passes away, it's part of the child's estate. 

Okay. 

And if they lack the cognitive ability to have a will, then it's going to go on intestacy. Intestacy is that phrase, the word that means, what if you die without a will, right? So there's a whole set of rules in most jurisdictions to say if somebody passes away without a will, this is the result, right? And basically it goes to nearest next of kin. So let me give a story to help illustrate the problem. Sure. I was talking to mom, came in to see me to do their estate plan. Mom had separated from dad. Dad just shortly after the child was born said, I'm not in for this ride and I'm out of here. And sad that he chose a ticket out, but that was the facts. 

Yeah. 

So mom was looking at putting money into the RDSP. But here's what happens is that when child passes away, the balance in that RDSP gets divided between mom and dad because the child doesn't have a spouse, doesn't have kids, doesn't have grandkids, that's not where it's going to go. It's going to be divided between mom and dad as the nearest next to kin. So dad could put nothing into the plan. Mom puts every dollar into it as making all these contributions, being financially responsible, and then losing half of it to dad. Well, that was so distasteful for her when I reviewed that result with her, she said, I don't think I'm going to put more money into the plan. So we came up with some other strategies about still how to benefit the child and keeping money segregated that she could control through her will in a testamentary trust. But she just missed out on some of the benefits of the RDSP. So wonderful program, the first in the world. Canada was leading to make financial provision for our loved ones that have long-term disability. So there are some unique circumstances where you do the analysis and say, well, that wasn't a right choice for her. It was totally distasteful to say 50 cents of every dollar that I put in is going to go to my ex. That was a no-go for her. But in general, leaving aside some of these unique circumstances, I would say, I'm hard pressed to give a reason why somebody wouldn't have it in place. Lots of reasons to have it in place. So it's usually a strong encouragement to put it in place. One of the main criteria for getting it is eligibility for the disability tax credit. That's the federal program, you need to be eligible for that. That's a whole other podcast we can do on the disability tax credit. So for some people, it's a matter of let me get that in place or my child doesn't qualify for the disability tax credit, therefore, I don't get the RDSP. But if there's eligibility for that tax credit through the federal government, then you can go set up this savings plan for your loved one. 

OK, wow. Thank you so much, Gordon. We have an RDSP for our oldest, but I certainly have learned a lot today. Thank you so much. So one of the things I just want to go back to, and I don't know if I heard you correctly, a person can put into this RDSP $1,500 a month? 

Sorry, $1,500 a year. 

Yeah, okay. 

The amount that, the formula for maximizing the government contribution is $1,500. That will maximize the $3,500. If you haven't set one up yet and you do set it up, you can go back up to 10 years, assuming you're eligible for the disability tax credit. So if one of your listeners is going, hey, I'm in Canada and I've not heard about this RDSP, go get some advice. 

Yes. 

There's people that can help set it up. There's lots of good to it and very little on the downside. And it just means you can put that contribution in and it can be part of providing for your child. The law says if you pass away with a child who has a long-term disability, they have the inability by reason of a mental or physical disability to provide for themselves, you have a legal obligation to provide for them. So this is part of the provision for them to make sure they're going to have a safe and secure life when you're not there. So it becomes an important component. And then obviously analyzing who's going to be in charge of this money and do some planning with regard to that. So we get into sometimes some trusteeship applications to make sure that the right handpicked people are putting in there. So sometimes you can do the math if you're doing that $1,500 divide by 12. If you say, yeah, I'm going to put in this amount of money per month to make the $1,500, you'll see it grow. On the first year, you do that amount, put in the $1,500, say, on monthly installments, over the course of the 12 months, suddenly your bank balance at the end of the year is $5,000 instead of $1,500. Yes. Plus, it can invest and grow. So we're seeing routinely now RDSPs being easily in the six digit. I was looking at one the other day. They started it from the beginning. It was now about $260,000. And it's going to continue to grow. So it could get into seven-digit amounts of money as a safety net and as supports for that child. So it's a convenient way to make sure your child is provided for. Or if you have one child with extra needs and need to be addressed in the overall planning, the RDSP is a way of funneling some money and leveraging the government contributions. Obviously, it benefits those who are of a younger age so that, you know, there's the money's in there, it gets contributed and then just continues to grow and grow and grow. So there's no limit. You can only put in $200,000, but there's no limit on what it can grow to. 

Right. 

It's all exempt for the test for eligibility for the government assistance program. So quite a powerful program. And it's going to do a lot for providing for our loved ones. 

Yes, absolutely. So when they start taking it out, Gordon, is that when it's taxable? 

So there is a taxable component with regard to that, but the money coming out, certainly if you're looking at it as far as government assistance programs like AISH, fully exempt the money coming out. But there are specialized rules about how you take it out. 

Okay. 

And there might be a small tax component to it, but that's sort of calculated at the time the money is pulled out. You're not going to get a tax receipt like putting money into an RRSP. So it's not like that, but it's closer to, for those in Canada may be familiar with a registered education savings plan. That if you set aside money for a child going to post-secondary, you put some money in, the government will contribute some money in. It's kind of on steroids because instead of a one-for-one match, which is a registered education savings plan, it's at the top end a three-to-one ratio to the maximum of $3,500 a year. So it's more structured like an RESP, and it doesn't have the beneficiary designation, and it doesn't have the tax credit of money going in to deduct against the credit. So think of it as long-term savings for your loved one that has lots of attributes to it. It's not that you're going to save on your taxes by putting the money in, but it's about financial provision for those that are unable to support themselves. 

Okay. Wow. I just want to say thank you to Mr. Was it…

Mr. Flaherty's he’s deceased now, but he was instrumental. I can't imagine like he was living this as a parent. 

Yeah. 

So anyway, I use that as a story to say, okay, he was using his advocacy like we all do. Right. He had a passion for looking after his son and realizing even if he had means to provide for this son, he understood that journey and what it felt like when you ask the question, what if you're not here? Right? And is that child going to be OK? And he went further and say, as Minister of Finance, I'm going to champion putting in a savings plan. So it's not the end of the analysis and that's not the only component of the analysis, but it's a great tool and one that should not be ignored for Canadians who are looking at making provision. Not only because you're setting aside for your loved one's future, you know, later in life, but it also takes advantage of the government contribution, which will accelerate the growth on that and sort of as a little bit of assistance to the parents in terms of providing for their child with a long-term disability. 

Love it. Thank you so much, Gordon. Gordon, wow, you are a wealth of information. 

Well, you know, what I should say is that I've been talking quickly and a lot on this podcast. You're going to go, there's a lot of information there. Certainly, we started the We Advocate podcast so we can get into more detail on that. But certainly reach out. We're happy to sort of steer people in the right direction if that makes sense. But yeah, it's a great program. I encourage everybody to look at it. But as you've said, also, it's in the context of the broader aspect of looking after your loved one. It's not only the advocacy for getting access to programs or having some assistance when somebody says, a government official says no, and you're going to go, okay, I shouldn't accept no for an answer. Can I get some help in advocating for services? Beyond that, I think it's a part of the overall obligation of making sure our loved ones are going to be okay, because that's what keeps us all up at night, right? We can be good advocates, but what happens if something happens to us? And building those structures in place so they're going to have a safe and secure future. That's a lot of the work you do and say, okay, I'm going to help somebody with housing, for example, as one aspect of what you can help them with. But just having that plan in place. So it's a great tool. And if your child is eligible for the Disability Tax Credit, definitely something you want to look at. You'd be remiss if you didn't. 

Right. Exactly. Gordon, thank you so much. Where can our audience go to find out more about you? 

Yeah, certainly you can email directly. Email is Gordon@vanderleeklaw.ca, but check out vanderleeklaw.ca. We also have a companion website for DisabilityAdvocates.ca and check us out on LinkedIn and also our two podcasts, one focusing more on the legal issues of estate administration and planning, the other one specifically on the disability advocacy and programs there, such as some of the changes that are happening now to the current AISH program. We're studying that carefully because that's top of mind here in Alberta. And so the podcast is exploring some of those issues. But on a long-term basis, we're going to be tackling things like an RDSP and Disability Tax Credit, all these other programs that are in place. They're multifaceted. And we're hoping we can walk alongside families to give good information and where appropriate, you know, be involved to help them on that journey. 

Thank you so much. all right so before we conclude our conversation, I’d love to hear some words of encouragement from you. 

Thank you for asking that question and admittedly this can be a tough one like I struggled with this a little bit but you know what came to mind, and I see this a lot, is the stresses that have raising a child with a long-term disability has on marriages or partnerships, right? A higher percentage of those relationships end in divorce or separation it's not easy raising a child with a long-term disability. So my advice is look after each other, support each other. And I think that was our approach saying we have to be there for each other. While your children are the most important thing, it can't be in priority to making sure you are well cared for and that you are looking after each other. And there's many times you show up and you've had a hard day and you know if you're in a relationship and a spouse, or a partner that you go okay, other just has to take over because you know somebody's had a bad day and then vice versa so if I look back and go I don't know how we would have done this journey alone so I had to single parents who are tackling this because it is enormously difficult,

Yes 

...and I think it creates that need for the community to surround people and provide that support in the absence of a marriage or marriage like relationship, but look after each other, be kind to each other. I think when you do that and you support each other, that gives you the strength to play that long game and to deal with the various challenges that are going to come or have come. You know, sort of the analogy of you got to put the mask on yourself first before you help your loved one. You know, I think we have to look after ourselves because it's a tough journey. It needs to be filled with grace and compassion and understanding because it's not easy. There can be sources of attention, but love each other, be grace filled with each other and do it together. And if that's not your journey and you go, okay, I'm doing it alone, then surround yourself as best you can with the people who can provide that level of support because it's a tough journey. Be compassionate with each other, recognize the needs that are there and address them as best you can. 

Yeah. Okay. Well, Gordon, thank you so, so, much for being here with us today. I so appreciate you taking the time to share with us your wisdom, your experience, and the encouragement. So thank you so much. 

It's my pleasure to have this conversation. And as I think we've demonstrated, some of these topics are a little more difficult, multifaceted, and there's probably a whole list of topics that's in your head right now saying, I'd love to ask Gord this, but we have a limit on our podcast. So I'm delighted to come back or partner in some other way to do some public education with regard to any of these topics. Again, part of that, let's support each other in the broader community. And if we can be part of that, we'd be delighted to come back and talk about any other issues that are relevant for your audience, and encourage people to reach out if we can help in any way. 

Thank you so much. 

All right, audience, you heard the invitation. So I want you to Live with Intention and Embrace the Journey. 

Thanks for joining me today on Forever Home for Our Kids with Disabilities. I hope today's episode gave you something new to think about and it increased your confidence on your journey. If you found this episode helpful, do tell others about it. Use the text feature to let me know your questions. Tell me what you want to know. Until next time, take care and keep building your child's future.