Ep 77 | Jackie Wilke | The Human Edge in an AI World | ROI Podcast

In a world increasingly run by algorithms, is human connection still your biggest competitive advantage? Jackie Wilke joins the podcast to explore why authentic relationships remain a financial professional's greatest edge, even as automation reshapes the industry.

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Human Connection

Ryan 0:13

On the First Trust ROI podcast, we cover a variety of topics ranging from the economy to politics to the themes and strategies driving investment opportunities. But some of my favorite episodes focus more concretely on providing insights as to how financial professionals might more effectively and efficiently serve their clients. And to that end, today I'm excited to be joined by Jackie Wilkie on this episode of the podcast. Jackie is part of First Trust's Advisor Consulting Group and is the creator and author of First Trust's Insights and Innovation blog, which discusses various topics related to practice management. Jackie also spends a tremendous amount of time traveling around the country as a keynote speaker at various financial industry conferences. Well, today, Jackie and I are going to discuss the importance of leaning in to human-to-human connection in a world increasingly focused on artificial intelligence. I hope you enjoy a conversation. Jackie, thanks for joining us on the podcast.

Jackie 1:12

Thanks for having me back. Pleasure's mine.

Ryan 1:16

So uh we're recording this midsummer. Uh summer going all right?

Jackie 1:20

Summer's going great. I'm in Chicago, the best summer city in the entire country, so can't complain.

Ryan 1:27

Yeah, you know, you you pay for it a little bit when you live in Chicago in the winter time. Um, but really it's it is tough to beat a Chicago summer.

Jackie 1:36

Absolutely. So far, so good.

Ryan 1:38

Have you uh spent much time on the road this summer?

Jackie 1:42

Yeah, I uh actually took a two-week vacation to Japan. It's my 15th year at first trust, so I get some extra vacation days. Uh so a little bit of vacation and uh a lot, not a lot more, but more virtual this summer than uh on the road. But last week I was in California. We did four meetings, four cities, and a couple of weeks we've got meetings here in Chicago, which actually just worked out great being local. And then it's full steam ahead until the end of the year.

Ryan 2:08

Where do you think, where's your favorite place that you've been over the last couple of years when you've been traveling for work in particular?

Jackie 2:15

Oof. I have been very fortunate with this role at First Trust, working with individuals, teams, enterprises across our industry. I've really had the opportunity to go east-west, north to south, south, cover the country. And we have some pretty incredible uh attractions and cities in our backyard here in the U.S. But one of my favorites

Travel Talk And Conferences Return

Jackie 2:38

is New York. I'm also a little biased. That's where one of my sisters live. So never have to twist my arm to do something in New York.

Ryan 2:45

Okay, so the funny thing is we're we're talking about, you know, speaking at conferences and traveling around and visiting folks. The funny part about that to me is it was just a a couple three years ago where the conventional wisdom was basically that like this wasn't ever gonna happen again. We were we were all gonna be on Zoom calls all the time, and there was really no need to actually make you know, sort of human-to-human connections with people. You didn't have to like go to a conference and speak, you could just maybe record something and they could view it later. Um, and it seems like everything sort of flipped on its head.

Jackie 3:19

The pendulum is swinging for sure. People crave in-person, they crave getting out of their house, they crave gathering and in-person communities. But one of the things that we're still seeing is with this preference towards that human-to-human relationship building IRL in real life, there's still a really tremendous opportunity for those who maintain a strong presence outside of what's in person, whether that's virtual, it's digital, it's video, it's online.

In-Person Craving Plus Digital Presence

Jackie 3:55

So we're really seeing that balance because one of the shifts that we've seen also over the last five years or so is that today's investor cares a lot less about where their financial professional is and a lot more about who they are. So the human-to-human person is great, but we also want to build human-to-human on virtual platforms too, so that you're never out of sight, out of mind. And there's an easy ability for someone to find you and build

AI Disruption And Misinformation

Jackie 4:22

that trust, whether they're five blocks away or five states away.

Ryan 4:26

The context of all this, it as we're talking about human-to-human connection, is that there's this huge flourishing of artificial intelligence. There's hundreds of billions of dollars that are being invested to build out that ecosystem. It's largely driving a lot of our economy today. And in some ways, it seems like that's like the opposite. And I think there's a lot of anxiety that most professionals have, especially in sort of the knowledge work, whether it's a financial professional or even in other industries, that there's going to be displacement due to artificial intelligence, basically taking your job. Um, and and that's one of the things that I wanted to really dig into with you is you know, you you talk about that human-to-human connection. Um artificial intelligence seems like that wants to displace that human-to-human connection, or at least that's the perception. So I want you to uh talk a little bit about that. How do you see those two forces interacting? People have this, this um kind of urge, this, this feeling like they want to connect human to human, but at the same time, there's all these AI tools that seem like they would be very disruptive to that. So, how do you how do you square that?

Jackie 5:38

Well, our last podcast that we did together, Ryan, was on embracing that disruption. So if anybody to get in didn't get a chance to listen to it, we really dive into how our group at the advisor consulting group, who works with high-performing, future-focused individuals and teams, how they're seeing this disruption as an opportunity. As our CEO Jim Bowen says, nothing is good or bad except by comparison. So it's hard to have a blanket statement that AI and technology are bad. When we're actually seeing those who use them for operational efficiencies, for things like note-taking, drafting emails, they're outsourcing, they're automating, they're delegating, they're even eliminating the things that aren't high value, which are often the things that are high human. You know, we've seen studies that high ultra-high network individuals, when you're talking about their wealth and their well-being, their family's well-being, their return on life, they don't want just a customized digital platform. They want a human to be part of that because there's a lot that AI and technology can't do yet. And for younger generations, building wealth, inheriting wealth, we are seeing that a preference for AI and technology is there, but it's there mostly as part of their advisors' experience. And, you know, today's financial professional is not all things to all people. So you're not gonna work with all investors today. You won't work with all investors tomorrow. And I think there's a positive spin on all this access, access to the market information products. People, let's get more people into the market, into diversified low-cost portfolios where they can invest and grow over time. Hopefully we won't have this retirement crisis. But the other thing with AI and technology that we're seeing is there's a lot of misinformation coming out of AI. I saw a meme the other day that was like a person asking AI, uh, hey, is this flower poisonous? And then the next clip is like a tombstone RIP and it's AI saying, Oh, I'm so sorry, my mistake. It turns out it is poisonous. Yeah, like AI is also skewed towards confirmation bias, unless you prompt your agents the right way. It's gonna kind of boost what you think you want to know or what it thinks you want to know. Uh, and then some of the information is not right because it's calming the entire internet. It doesn't have the expertise that financial professionals are bringing to the table today.

Ryan 8:01

That's interesting. Um, yeah, it seems to me that one of the things that AI ends up doing is it kind of gives you a synthesis of conventional wisdom. Like it's trying to find what the right answer is and it's training on certain data, and it's been um programmed in such a way that it wants to give you the right answer, but what it ends up sometimes doing is just giving you conventional wisdom. So there's not really that sort of edge that you can get. You're getting what everyone thinks.

Jackie 8:27

There's still a lot of unknown with AI, and there are fears around AI, especially around security. Um, ChatGPT came out with a personal finance feature where you feed all of your personal finance information into Chat GPT, which I think is crazy. Like they have no client, professional, confidentiality clauses. There's no reason that they're holding back from potentially sharing that data with other LLMs. Like, I I think that people are taking AI as they're open. I think they're more optimistic than they were before, but there's still a lot of scrutiny uh and skepticism around

What High Human Really Means

Jackie 9:08

it too.

Ryan 9:08

You you mentioned a phrase that I want to um that I want to dig into for just a moment. You use the phrase high human. Um, and I've I've heard you use that phrase before. Can you unpack that a bit? What do you mean by high human?

Jackie 9:21

Yeah, high human is the term that we're using for the things that create the greatest impact. Impact from the standpoint of what drives the most value, what's going to be relevant? Um, how do you ensure that you're building deeper relationships with clients? How do you generate more referrals and instructions? How do you differentiate and create professional contrast in today's environment of democratization, commoditization? A lot of it comes back to high human. What are the things about us that make us unique that can't be replicated or duplicated yet? You know, hopefully never, but I've seen some sci-fi movies. But the high human, you know, financial professionals, even you and I, Ryan, we are the most unique thing about what we do. It's our intellectual capital, it's our spiritual capital, our relationship capital, the expertise that we hold, the creativity that we still have. Uh, there's so many things that us as humans bring to the table that for the right investor, that's going to matter more in this world of AI and technology than ever before. Because AI can't really read the room. You know, you're you're having a conversation with a client who's going through a really hard time in their life or they're celebrating, getting ready to sell their business, this massive liquidity event, AI can't read the room. Like that's one example of where high human is still really critical.

Ryan 10:50

I think one of the things that AI is on the on the positive side, likely to provide for financial professionals and other industries as well, is it is an efficiency tool. And it is something that will allow you maybe more opportunities to actually have ways that you can show your high humanness or or the actual um, you know, the the services that you weren't able to provide because you were too busy filling out forms or something like that that can maybe be done more easily and efficiently by artificial intelligence, as an example. Um, or um, you know, it'll maybe allow you to make contact with a client in a certain way that you weren't able to before because you were busy. So, in your view, as you kind of look forward and and think about AI freeing up time, um, what are the what are the best ways as you survey the landscape of using that extra time to provide that high human experience?

Using AI Savings To Wow Clients

Jackie 11:55

Client experience is a great one to redeploy that time to. So client experience is kind of a broad term, but I think a great way to think about the client experience is the My Angelou quote. People forget what you said, forget what you did, but they never forget how you made them feel. And sometimes we're just going through the motions day to day, you know, weeks go by, months go. It's already when we're recording this, the end of July. Like, I don't know where 2026 is going. Uh, so really taking time to be more intentional with how you're engaging clients, what you're talking to them about. Are you gonna start doing more in-person events, bringing people together? Are you going to ramp up your virtual educational programming so that you can reach people near and far about a really specific topic that you're the expert on? And it doesn't have to be expensive or time consuming to deliver an amazing client experience, one that feels relevant, one that makes someone feel like, oh, I feel seen, heard, understood, and considered. We have a lot of tools to help uh financial professionals collect the data that they need to deliver that kind of customization. Um, high-in-earth individuals are willing to pay more for customization. We see that they want a one-stop shop, so expanded services inside and outside the money. But the way that you really keep them engaged, it's not just proactive content, it's proactive, meaningful content, showing them that you know them not just as client portfolio number 33. You know them as Mr. and Mrs. Johnson. And so that data, that qualitative data is just as important as the quantitative. And uh, I was reading a study that behavioral coaching and behavioral finance is starting to add a lot of value in quantifying the financial professional's fee. And in order to influence behavior, you have to understand where someone's at. So getting to know their belief systems, their values, their priorities, their preferences, um, who is most important to them? That multi-generational family, whether it's traditional or untraditional, what are their goals or what are their pain points? Pain points are a big thing to connect with clients over. Uh, so we have some tools from the ACG that are there to help you collect that data, centralize it, use it, like client personal profile, art of discovery. We have a sample survey for events in education. If you're thinking about ramping those up, uh, a great way to figure out what we should do, what should we say, survey some of your select clients. But that's where that redeploying of time to high human, you get everyone on your team thinking about how do we go all in on wowing our clients? They would not get this anywhere else. They feel so locked in and understood and seen that they couldn't, they wouldn't want to go try to find that value anywhere. We are all things to them and they feel that.

Ryan 14:54

So you mentioned that um your team has uh various resources to help kind of flesh all this out. Um, where would if someone's watching this and let's say they're a financial professional um somewhere, how would they go about accessing that?

Jackie 15:10

It's top secret.

Ryan 15:12

No, I'm just kidding.

Jackie 15:13

Yeah. Uh two simple ways to access these tools. Um, one on the First Trust website. We have a whole advisor uh consulting group page, videos, downloadables, tools. The blog is archived there going back to 2019. Um, and then of course, your local First Trust wholesalers. We have the best distribution force, in my opinion. Uh, and part of the reason is that because they are there to help financial professionals with more than just investment solutions. So getting to understand our team, how we can help, that's what they're there to do. So they can plug you in with either the right person or the right resource.

Ryan 15:52

So it seems to me like another service that financial professionals can provide in this sort of AI environment is to sort of um maybe sort through some of the information that's coming out of AI that is maybe a bit questionable. And I think that a good analogy would be, you know, what doctors have had to deal with for many years, where someone does a web search on the you know the symptoms that they're having and they all of a sudden have themselves diagnosed with a certain condition. And it's really valuable then when you can go to that doctor and uh and say, this is what I'm what I'm feeling. Uh do I have XYZ condition? And they can say, no, probably you probably don't. Um but I think similarly, as AI is producing all sorts of output, it seems like navigating that as a financial professional would be really valuable as well. Um, is that something that you're seeing as you talk to financial advisors?

Jackie 16:48

Yes.

Clients Bring AI To Meetings

Jackie 16:49

So there's a couple things that we're seeing with AI and the results that they give that are very impactful right now for financial professionals. On one hand, how do you get found by AI? So if someone searches for who's a financial professional, who works with business owners in Chicago, you know, just an example, um, who gets found in that search? Because people are using AI to search when they maybe went to Google uh in the past. So that habit's kind of shifting. So how do you get found in AI search? The other thing is how do you navigate when clients come to you having used AI before your meeting? And there's a couple ways I've talked to advisors about how they've seen this play out. Some would be a prospect. So let's say you even got a referral. I know for me personally, I know Ryan, you're a big foodie too. Uh, even if someone recommends a restaurant to me, I'm still gonna search online. I want to read the reviews, I want to see the pictures on Instagram. So even if you are referred to a prospect, there is a chance that they're going to search for you. Or maybe they're gonna ask AI, hey, I'm meeting with so-and-so finance professional. What question should I make sure to ask them about their business? Or what should I be looking for when it comes to credentials and um expertise? Like, for example, if strategic or if philanthropy is important to me, is strategic philanthropy part of their service model. So we're seeing it that way. So prospects using AI to prep for meetings. Now, another way that we're seeing it is clients taking what you've talked to them about and also checking that against AI. And now I know it's been frustrating for a lot of professionals that we've worked with because you for on the client side of things, you've worked with these clients for a long time. They trust you. Why would they be doing this? Well, rather than assuming that clients are trying to replace you or prospects are really trying to challenge you, the biggest thing that I've heard from advisors that helped them kind of go from defense to really having a meaningful conversation is staying curious. Oh, tell me about when you asked AI about this, what was the prompt you gave? Or when you checked this against AI, what was one of the things you were curious about? Because it could be that a prospect even has something that they've worked on, their DIY strategy, they've run it through AI, that prospect might be coming to you for your expertise. So you don't want to be defensive right away because they might just be saying, hey, here's what I've got, here's how I used AI to get here. I don't know if this is actually going to accomplish my goals because they don't know what they don't know. And with prompting, it's garbage in, garbage out. Unless you ask the right prompts, AI is not going to always intuitively ask you those follow-up questions for the things that really put that whole picture together. And I knew the you're I know they used uh or the word holistic is used, overused probably in our industry, but truly a holistic financial plan that they can also also take action on.

Ryan 19:56

Yeah. Um, Jackie, a few minutes ago you were talking about using technology and and uh social media to connect it uh in addition to, or maybe as part of this, you know, sort of human-to-human connection.

Content Strategy Beyond LinkedIn Pressure

Ryan 20:11

Um, and you have a very big presence on social media, LinkedIn, for example. I see your posts come through regularly. Um, by the way, you're much better at navigating social media than I am. I have a lot a lot to learn. Um, part of my problem is that I just kind of forget. Um, maybe I'm just, you know, maybe maybe I'm too old. I don't know. Um but do you have any advice for those like me that might struggle at um using social media to their benefit to find clients or to connect with people? Um and is it really necessary? Should I be working harder on this?

Jackie 20:50

This is one of my favorite questions whenever uh someone asks me about LinkedIn specifically, do I need to be on LinkedIn? My short answer is you don't need to do anything if you have the business that you want, the growth that you're looking for, and the people that you want to have in place. So short answer is no. If you have the business you like and you're maybe more that lifestyle practice, you don't necessarily need to be on social media. But it doesn't mean that you can be out of sight, out of mind. Social media is just a channel. Content's always always the foundation. So I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit. You are on your almost the end of season three of uh or the third season of your podcast. Podcast is a form of digital visibility. So it's not all about just social media. That's the channel. It's the content first. Who is this for? Why would this be relevant to them? Unless we can answer one of those two questions, then whatever you're gonna post, do, say, probably gonna be a waste of time. And there is definitely a balance, a benefit to the balance of both personal and professional network. The benefit of show. Up virtually, whether the channel is a podcast, your website, LinkedIn, webinars are still having a ton of success, newsletters, phone calls, emails, surprise and delight, pies at Thanksgiving, all those are virtual touch points because you're not with the client, but you're not out of sight, out of mind. The channels that work best for you, stick with them. Almost everything works if you work it. It doesn't mean that you now need to always post on LinkedIn because you've got your podcast channel and you share those clips and market that on LinkedIn. You also email out every new podcast to wholesalers and to your distribution list. Then usually your guest shares that podcast with their uh prefer professional network. So there's a lot of ways where that one piece of content that you create can go across a lot of channels and reach your target audience wherever they may be.

Ryan 22:54

Okay, so I can take a little bit of pressure off myself for not LinkedIn, is what you're telling me.

Jackie 23:00

I think so. It's also what you enjoy. I enjoy LinkedIn.

Ryan 23:04

Yeah. Uh do you have some sort of uh time schedule, like a certain time of day or a certain day of the week? Like when do you when do you post? Is it because that's that's part of my issue is I don't have a schedule of when I post. So it's ends up being erratic, and sometimes um I'll I'll forget about it unless there's a podcast episode to post about or something like that.

Jackie 23:27

I try to have a good idea of a content posting schedule. I usually try to do twice a week uh around 8 a.m. And my goal is to have a video every other week, but it doesn't always happen. And I don't give myself a hard time about it because we all have a lot of things going on. And if you force it, or one of the big uh things we're seeing is AI content and what people are calling AI slot. So better to miss posting than go to AI and have a post that doesn't sound authentic, clearly wasn't authored by you, which then diminishes your credibility. Better not to use AI to just put something out there for the sake of putting it out there. Wait until you actually have a post that you're writing, you're posting, and that you'll engage with when other people engage with it too.

Ryan 24:20

Right. Yeah. And you know, it's funny, it it does seem to me that different different forms of media, or um, whether it's a podcast or uh a video to your point that you're you know putting out there, or a a newsletter, or just uh a note that's sent to somebody, that's gonna resonate with different types of people differently, and it's gonna resonate with even different generations differently. Um, one of the things that's been interesting about having this podcast, we're now in into the end of the third season, so thank you for contributing to it, um, has been there is sort of a um a line above which and below which people don't tend to view podcasts as much. And that line has shifted over the last couple of years. I think it the podcast uh ecosystem or audience has expanded. But when we started the podcast a few years ago, it was something like, you know, if you were if you were between 20 and and 30, you were for sure listening to podcasts. If you were between 30 and 40, there's a good chance you were listening to podcasts. As you got into people in their 40s, it was hit or miss. And then above 50, um, there were a lot of people that I'd ask, you know, do you listen to podcasts thinking, yeah, they're gonna say yes? And they'd say, no, what's a podcast? Um, and I think that's has begun to shift. But my point is, um, those different forms of of media and and different mediums of communication um do end up filtering you towards or or having different touch points and different demographics.

Jackie 25:54

Absolutely.

AI Discovery And Trust Signals

Jackie 25:55

And those are also ways that you get found with AI. So what AI is looking for is thought leadership. So frequently asked questions piece, podcasts, checklists, blogs that you're authoring. LinkedIn is another place that it searches. So any posts, videos, things that you're posting there, which a podcast is a great example of something you can create once and then market on LinkedIn, just pulling out tidbits for a while. Uh, it's also gonna look for uh testimonials and reviews. What are other people saying about you? So we're talking to a lot of teams about reviews, which is uh, or sorry, testimonials, which is another form of the high human. Actually hearing from the mouth of your clients, what are we doing well? How did we help you? And then putting it out there in a way that it's an expander. You're not bragging about yourself, you're just hopefully helping someone else see themselves in the shoes of someone who used to be like them, worked with you towards a solution, and now is on the other side of it. So testimonials are another big thing we're talking about because it does lean towards that high human. And when you do get to hear from someone else or you see someone post a video talking about your specific pain point, you visit their website, your client makes a great referral, and all of it matches up, that's where that high trust is built. Because you're not just a logo that's faceless. Like, think about us at First Trust. We have a lot of people tied to the First Trust brand. We have a lot of departments like the ROI podcast, or you have McGarrell's Market Minute or Housey's Income Insights, all these things that are tied to the people who do have that thought leadership, that expertise, that experience. So both from what people are saying about you in testimonials, how your clients talk about you, the content you put out there, all of that adds up to do I feel like I trust you or not? Do I feel like you work with people like me or not? And if someone can come to that conclusion before you ever sit down with them for a prospective conversation, well, you don't just have a prospect, you already have a prospect who's kicked the tires and is probably a lot further along towards a yes, I want to work with you than someone who just found you out of the blue.

High Tech Plus High Human Close

Ryan 28:17

Yeah. Um, you know, my takeaway from this conversation, I think, is that um high human is not uh necessarily in opposition to technology. It's not like one or the other, it's it's really most um beneficial to embrace the high human aspects of technology. And um, I I think that's uh that that's very, very good advice. So I appreciate you bringing that to light.

Jackie 28:44

Absolutely. High tech plus high human. That's one of the ways that we're seeing financial professionals who are really thinking about okay, we've got to this level. How do we get to the next level? That's the theme that we're seeing, that high human, high tech, and really moving towards being all things to some people. That's how we see them moving upstream.

Ryan 29:03

Yeah, love it, love it.

Jackie 29:04

And locking in that multi-generational relationship, which I talk about a lot. Gotta get the kids.

Ryan 29:10

I I was um planning on asking you about that today, but look at the clock, and we've been chatting away for 30 minutes here. So um, it gives me an opportunity to have you back.

Jackie 29:19

Absolutely. Anytime. I appreciate the chance.

Ryan 29:22

Yeah, yeah. It's been a been a great conversation. Uh appreciate as always your perspective and your insights. And uh yeah, thanks for joining us. And to all of you who have joined us for this episode of the First Trust ROI podcast, thank you for joining us as well. We look forward to seeing you again next time. Take care, everyone.