Can Moors Unite? Exploring the Wounds That Never Healed

The fracturing of Noble Drew Ali's Moorish Science Temple movement serves as a powerful case study in how promising liberation movements can be derailed by human ego. What began as a unified effort to reconnect Black Americans with their Moorish heritage splintered into at least seven competing factions following Drew Ali's mysterious death in 1929—a division that persists nearly a century later.

Ron Brown and his co-hosts Mikey Fever and Grand Sheik Kujo Cananland pull back the curtains on this seldom-discussed historical fracture, examining primary documents including letters from Noble Drew Ali himself that reveal troubling power struggles happening while the prophet was still alive. We see leaders like Lomax Bay publicly challenging Drew Ali's authority and attempting to redirect temple finances, foreshadowing the chaos that would erupt after Drew Ali's passing.

The conversation reveals how Drew Ali recognized these threats, implementing additional laws and mandating specific letters be read at every meeting to protect the movement's integrity. Despite these efforts, his death—officially attributed to tuberculosis though many question this explanation—triggered a succession crisis that the movement never recovered from. Competing claims between C. Kirkman Bey, Mealy El, and others created lasting divisions that continue to weaken collective progress.

This historical fracturing serves as a metaphor for broader challenges facing Black consciousness movements. As the hosts poignantly note, "Community means unity," yet true unity remains elusive. The episode questions why, despite thousands of organizations dedicated to Black empowerment, meaningful change remains limited in many communities, with violence and economic struggles persisting.

Can Moors unite? The 2007 Moorish American Treaty of Peace and Frie

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• 19:23 (Cont.) Can Moors Unite? Exploring the Wounds That Never Healed

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:20

yo, what's going on? Everybody out there is. It's Ron Brown, lmt, the People's Fitness Professional, and we got my brother, mikey Fever, in the building Definitely Peace. And Kujo Canaan Landmore Yo, the Grand Chic, the Grand Chic, peace to everybody out there watching. Yes, we've gone the pre-recorded. We got to spread the content out. We got to spread the content out to make sure you guys are viewing seven days a week, seven days a week. And this part of the podcast is extremely, extremely important, because I don't, I want to, I don't, I wouldn't call this the sellout, the sellout. What we call out the sellouts, I'm, let's say that, for lack of better term, we're using that, we're going to use that. We're calling the sellouts. We're not necessarily disrespecting anyone, but we're trying to figure out the holes in the community because, um, it just seems like we're not really getting anywhere. We have people like we have groups like the Nation of Islam, the MSTFA, the 5% Nation, the Hebrews, rastafari, rastafarians. We got what else? What?

Speaker 2: 1:37

other groups Pan-Africanists.

Speaker 1: 1:40

We got FBA. How many groups? We got the NCAA. We got theBA. How many groups? We got the NCAA. We got the Macy's, we got the Macy's. There's like thousands of groups, thousands of groups, but at the same time, kids are still getting gunned down in the middle of the street. Somebody just died, right, mikey 14 years old.

Speaker 2: 2:02

A 14-year-old shot a cop.

Speaker 1: 2:05

A 14-year-old shot a cop. A 14 year old shot a cop yeah, in Jersey.

Speaker 2: 2:11

Yeah, it's real. So his life is thrown away and you know, you don't know what's going to happen behind the walls with that child. But you know, when we say community, we also got to put in context human behavior. And I won't even use that word community no more, because community means unity. You, you understand, there's no unity amongst us in reality, I'm sorry to say it. Yeah, we can love each other, but the only time we have community is when a so-called white cop guns one of us down. Then we want to stand and hold hands together and protest and scream, or we got the barbecue.

Speaker 2: 2:43

Yeah, of course the barbecue, but we would tear each other down in a second.

Speaker 1: 2:49

Barbecue block parties, you know. But guess what, when those block parties and those barbecues happen, the chances of something going wrong is high. Very prevalent. It's high. So obviously our people have some kind of issue. I don't want to call it a disorder. I can't because I'm not a psychologist or psych. What's the other one?

Speaker 1: 3:20

Yeah, psychologist, psychiatrist, I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist so I can't diagnose a whole people internationally. You know what I'm saying. But of course, in the so-called African diaspora something is terribly wrong and we are still suffering. So we're trying to figure out with all the thousands of groups out there, why hasn't anything really really changed? So we want to go through it, we want to try to figure it out. So I want to ask you a question, grand Sheik Kujo Can Moors unite? That's the subject of tonight. Can can Moors unite? That's the subject of tonight. Can the Moors unite?

Speaker 3: 4:10

Well, we look at the branches, the conscious Moors and the unconscious Moors. So the ones who don't know about this and the ones who do know. As far as the ones who do know about this, based on more seeing Nubu Juwali as the prophet, more is having one Circle, 7 Quran. More is having one National Headwear well, two Turban or Fez, two turban or fez. Um um more is having the same 101 questionnaire, even if we throw the 102s in there, or whatever, um more is living by the same principles.

Speaker 3: 4:56

You know, there hasn't been anybody to come around and say, well, now I put them in this order, or they're not supposed to be like that, or adding on different ones, or whatever. So there should be unity because everything, everything's the same. You know what I mean, as far as on our side. So, when we look at it, when we look at it not being the same, it's only because of personages. You know, people, people gravitating to, to clicks of the Moorish people, gravitating to clicks of the Moorish movement opposed to sticking with Juali and let him be the grand sheet, the supreme grand sheet, the national grand sheet, the whatever official title of the whatever. There should be no Juali's name at the top of the list? If it's not, then you got to question those people who are sticking their tress out saying that they're the man.

Speaker 1: 5:50

Okay, so that's as far as our side on the more side.

Speaker 1: 5:54

Exactly. Now, as far as the more side of things, right, the problem I'm seeing is that you can have different interpretations of what the prophet was taught, and the problem, the reason that issue is there, is because you know he's long gone. He's long gone. He can no longer talk to us and say, hey, this is how I said it exactly, this is how this was supposed to go exactly. And say, hey, this is how I said it exactly, this is how this was supposed to go exactly. So you know the text, you know and the context can be left up to the person reading it. You know, and so we could so.

Speaker 1: 6:41

Like the way you carry it, the way you present the teachings of the prophet, people may disagree with that in a way. Let's say, for instance, brother Sharif Anil Bey, sharif Anil Bey presents the teachings. People will disagree with him. People would disagree with what, what, what other other Moors who are out there and well known, with other Moors who are out there and well-known. Now, how do we come to some kind of consensus of you know what is the right way? How can we tell what is right and what is wrong as far as the Prophet's teachings?

Speaker 3: 7:18

Well, I think the consensus comes in with just following what's there, what we have in print. We know we have the Quran. That's in print. We know we have the 101 questionnaire. That's in print. We know we have the Moorish literature and we have the 101 questionnaire. We know for sure we have those that we could use as a guide as far as what should be taught or whatever the case is.

Speaker 3: 7:52

When we talk about the template and Nobu Juali not being here anymore, there's Marcus Garvey audios. There's WEB Dubois audios. There's Haile Selassie audios. There's people from pre-1930 who their audios are around. So the question is well, where are these Moors? Where are these Moors that have Drew Ali's audio at? You need a reference point. Where's his audios? Where's his lectures? He was going around to all different temples, the lecturing and all that. So somebody has those and they're keeping those out of circulation, which you know, if we have garvey and all these other people and don't have nobu juali, now we, now we got a question. Question that because I'm sure if somebody played nobu juali's audios 2025, that's gonna cause a stir out here. With regard to the teachings of.

Speaker 2: 8:48

Nobu Juali and all what he's saying is true, because you got Marcus Garvey's. I'm like that's good.

Speaker 1: 8:53

Don't they have even Selassie. They have footage of Selassie. Oh yeah, at least footage.

Speaker 3: 8:58

Even if it's not audio. They can go back to Black Wall Street and they're going to find footage of them people walking up and down the place, going to the National Bank and all that. They're going to go to 19-whatever India have footage of them people. They're going to go to 1920s Europe find footage of them. But then this individual from Chicago who put in so much work active, active work in the community and all that stuff had parades for in the community and all that stuff had parades for the Moors and all that stuff Moorish costume balls and all that and there's nothing. There's no footage. Something's up. I'm questioning that shit.

Speaker 2: 9:37

Right.

Speaker 1: 9:38

Now, when we talk about what the prophet said, we can see what he said. The point of reference, what we can use as a reference, is the Holy Quran, right. And we can use the Moorish literature and we can use the 101s Right. So in the 101s, if you look at the Moorish Americans by the Prophet Nobu Jirali, right the Questionnaire and Additional Laws right, act I, grand Sheiks and Governors and Heads of all Temples and all Businesses.

Speaker 3: 10:16

Now, with that line alone, with that line alone, you start to question what businesses Well, this again goes back to the people who had this information in the past, because we have honors to Richard Edwards for putting out oh, let me turn this thing, ones to Richard Ed Rodzell for this one Nuclear Rabin files which this is not supposed to be in circulation and all that stuff, because you know it's supposed to be only for the temple, but this stuff is telling you all the ins and outs of what went down with these Moors. So in this it has articles from the Moorish Guide newspaper, which was Novajuali's newspaper, and in the Moorish Guide newspaper every single Moor had. Now let's just go through some of these. So we have Big Business Demands. There's different articles.

Speaker 3: 11:37

Big Business Demands Help at Home, factory, prr Giroux Soulless Cigars. Henry M Higgins, physician and Surgeon. Edmund Griffin, barbershop, joseph Snowden, attorney at Law, hubert Simo, job Printing. Chicago Meat Company, unity Hall, claude Green, morse Manufacturing Company, manufacturing company. Morse Guide publishing company. So there's all these different ads in here, right, morse Guide, morse Guide newspaper, and this is just one. Now the newspaper been around. It was going all over the country. So people knew that Mars had businesses because they were advertising the newspaper, just like the audios now. Now we got to ask where's the newspaper at? How come the circulation of the newspaper stopped? The paper should be still going on if there's still more.

Speaker 1: 13:22

There's so much to talk about just with that piece alone.

Speaker 3: 13:25

Just with the paper alone, just that alone.

Speaker 1: 13:29

Now we're going to get into that, but before we do that now, grand Sheik, this is Act 1 questionnaire. This is right here. 101. Grand Sheiks and governors and heads of all temples and all businesses, each said temple must be approved by the prophet Nobu Juali before acting upon by, before acting upon by any members. Let it be finance. Let it be finance property or any line of life that will cause the members to sacrifice finance, etc. That will be cause. That will cause the support of any group of members of members. Any former officer that violates these laws is subject to be removed from his office under heavy restriction etc. By the prophet or Grand Sheik. Okay, so can we break this down right here? Act 1? Do you know Act 1 off the top of your head?

Speaker 3: 14:40

Okay, I know what you're talking about. So look at it from this perspective. In the original Act, I, grand Chic and Chairman, is empowered to make law and enforce law In the official, the first divine constitution and bylaws. These are the additional laws, right? So what? What the hell was going on? That these people were violating that? That there had to be additional onto what was already there? Well, it depends on. Obviously they weren't. They weren't doing their job. Why? Why there's additional?

Speaker 1: 15:22

laws. I don't want to cut you apart, me I want to rebut because I don't know. We don't know the time frame of when these were were written. So like, if the uh divine constitution and bylaws were written, uh, in a, in a year, in one year, and then, uh, the bylaws and constitution was written in another year, then that would be a question as to who was going against the first laws. But we don't know, unless you know, unless you have information.

Speaker 3: 16:00

Well, based on them, trying to outnob Juali from his own stuff. And then we have all the letters that he had to proclaim every meeting and all that. We know that there was individuals who were against him even when he was alive. So putting these things in place were to try to stabilize these individuals, trying to take over the movement. This is why he's saying that all all, not just grand, whatever, all governor, grand sheik, the grand secretary, all officers and all business, because Juali had businesses too that Moors were in charge of, that. They were robbing that. So all this was in place to to shut down this, this idea. But then, you know, by 1929 he's assassinated, so so it doesn't even matter at this point it's are the moors gonna uphold what noble drew ali laid down, or are they gonna go with the people who who took him out, which now a lot of them went with?

Speaker 1: 17:07

people who took him out. Now you're saying that there were people trying to take the profit out. Right, I want to get back to Act One, just to, just to you know, go back to the flow of in order. But you were saying people were trying to take out the profit. My question is why would they want to take out the profit?

Speaker 3: 17:32

Would it be because of all of these businesses, because of everything? Because all of the businesses, because all the finance that was in the movement, because of the popularity of Nogajuali going to inaugurations of governors, going to Pan American Conference, doing all these things, and Moores wanted some of that. That ego is a hell of a drug.

Speaker 2: 17:51

That's what it sounds like crabbing the bucket.

Speaker 3: 17:54

They wanted that. They wanted that light on themselves, opposed to how Noble Juali was looking at it. That well, this is not about me, this is about all the morals. He's not doing this for himself. What he did wasn't for himself. He's not saying uplift, fallen humanity and talking about himself only. You know what I mean. That's why, when you go to the letters to be read every meeting, and then you go to some of these temples and you realize that they haven't been reading the letters to be read every meeting, and then you go to some of these temples and you realize that they haven't been reading the letters to be read every meeting, and then now you got to ask the question oh now, if Noah Juwali said read these letters every meeting, and then mores aren't reading the letters every meeting, then obviously they're violating the prophet, because they should be reading his letters that he said to read every meeting.

Speaker 1: 19:16

Now, where would you say that is like as far as the letters that need to be read every meeting? Where's that?

Speaker 3: 19:24

It's in the Moorish literature. All these Moors got that and again, if they're not reading it, that's enough for questions. So let's just pull up a couple of these letters. So it's a marsh literature booklet. I have that one right. So everybody, everybody got it. Prophet warns all Muslims to be read in every meeting, because he knew who these sellouts were and he was calling them out to their face wait.

Speaker 1: 20:09

But? But the prophet warns all Muslims to be read in every Okay. So you're going into it, okay.

Speaker 3: 20:16

Yeah, yeah. I hereby inform our members that they must end all radical agitating speeches while at work, in their homes or on the streets. We are for peace and not destruction. Stop flashing your cards at Europeans. It causes confusion. Remember, your card is for your salvation.

Speaker 3: 20:32

Failure to obey these orders will be of severe consequence. We are for love, truth, peace, freedom, and when these principles are violated, justice must then take its course. Any member or group of members who hold malicious feelings toward the temple or the prophet, or violate the divine covenant of the Moorish movement will receive their reward from Allah for their unjust deeds. All true Moors will and must obey the law as laid down to them by their prophet. If they lose confidence in their prophet, they should turn in their card and button, cease wearing their turban and fez and return to the state where I, the prophet, found you. This is a holy and divine movement founded by the prophet Nobu Juali, and if the prophet is not right, the temple is not right. The prophet, therefore, is sending out a divine plea to all Moorish Americans that they do their part in protecting their prophet and the temple. This is an everlasting movement founded by the prophet through the will of Allah to redeem his people from their sinful ways. Peace Noble Juwali. Obviously, they didn't protect him if he's dead.

Speaker 1: 21:45

Okay, now, you were speaking in reference to letters being read in the temple. Now this right here me. From experience, I know that this is read every temple meeting, right, every temple meeting that I've ever been to, this is red. Now, now, as far as protecting the prophet. Now, here's the thing Protecting the prophet. Where does that say?

Speaker 3: 22:16

Second to last little paragraph, right.

Speaker 1: 22:23

Second to last.

Speaker 3: 22:26

The prophet, therefore, is sending out.

Speaker 1: 22:29

Yep, yep, yep. The prophet, therefore, is sending out, yeah, yeah, yeah, the prophet. The prophet is sending out the divine plea to all Moorish Americans that they do their part in protecting their prophet. Protecting their prophet in a temple, right? So, with that being said, with that, that's read every temple meeting. Now, this is the reason why I think that the Inc, so to speak, move the way they move, because they're protecting the prophet and the temple the way they see it and the way they've learned throughout the years through constant studying. And, you know, being a part of the movement and doing this seven days a week, 24 hours, you know what I mean. So, from from what I see, that's what it looks like was what's going on now. Well, now my thing is who was trying to kill the prophet? Who was trying to kill the prophet? Okay, were they successful, even though it was said that he died from, I think, tuberculosis?

Speaker 3: 23:36

which, which that can't be the case. There's no way he could die of tuberculosis if he brought the marsh remedies that would cure you from anything you're not born with, and he wasn't born with tuberculosis.

Speaker 1: 23:58

Okay, Okay, so um that's like.

Speaker 3: 24:03

That's like saying Dr Dr Sebi died of AIDS or something.

Speaker 1: 24:08

Okay, I see what you're saying. However, you know, I just want to know why. Okay, so, being that they wanted to kill him for the finance, for the influence, you know crabs in a barrel. You know now, when he died, what happened exactly. So that's where the issue comes in, right, because you know, some people say Emilio, some people say C Kirkman Bay, and there's so much conspiracy surrounding that. Now, whether you're from C Kirkman Bay side or Emily Ill side, how does that even matter if the foundation, those two sides, so to speak, were built on the literature, the Circle 7, the 101s, I mean, what's the real issue?

Speaker 3: 24:58

there. So let's go to this next letter that you know the ink people now they're not going to read this part. This is a letter that they're not going to read even though they read everything else. So this is a Mealy Eel letter to Kirtman Bay, brother C Kirtman Bay. This is to notify you that at the above-named organization, more Science Temple of America in convention September 15th to 20th, rescinded by voting out the mistake made by the second annual convention of 1929.

Speaker 1: 25:34

All right, let's do that. Before you do that, let's rewind that. Let's do that one more time, brother.

Speaker 3: 25:40

C Kirtman Bay. This is to notify you, brother C Kirtman Bay, and then everybody who followed him after that, that the above-named organization, more Science Temple of America, in convention September 15th to 20th, rescinded by voting out the mistake made by the second annual convention of 1929. And in doing so you hold your membership role as to when our prophet was here and we hope you will still cooperate with the organization under the five principles. We hope, further, that you would comply with this notice and govern yourself accordingly, as there is but one supreme grand advisor in the Moral Science Temple of America, that being Noble Drew Ali, and anyone else attempting to be from now on is assuming authority of himself and is liable to the penalties of the law. Peace, moral Science Temple of America, noble Drew Ali. Founder Emilio Eel, chairman Nobujeweli founder, emile Eel chairman.

Speaker 1: 26:52

What's interesting about that letter is that it says Emile Eel chairman, yeah it doesn't say any other title, right Chairman.

Speaker 3: 27:02

Because he's looking at Nobujeweli as the founder. He's looking at Nobujeweli as the supreme grand advisor. Nobujeweli is the supreme grand chief. He's looking at Noble Juali as the supreme grand advisor. Noble Juali is the supreme grand sheik. He's just a mere chairman. This is why this is why the Moorish elders talk about Mili Il getting the authority, because Noble Juali saw the humility in him that he wasn't like all the rest of them that were around him that were trying to take over his own movement. So that's why they were mad with Emilio getting the authority, because everybody thought it was supposed to be Kurtman Bay to get it, but when he didn't get it, the disgruntled parties decided to stick with him as being the head of the movement, when that's not what Nobu Juali said. Nobu Juali left me real in charge.

Speaker 1: 27:59

Okay, Now give me, give me some proof, evidence that, uh, the prophet left Millie ill, Millie ill in charge Can, can you everything? The prophet left Emilio in charge. Can you Everything? Because Emilio can say one thing right, you know, after someone passes, I can say hey, man, he left me in charge. Anybody could come forth and say hey, he left me in charge.

Speaker 3: 28:31

So, again, that's why, again, when you get the Mukurabin files now, you get all these different letters that were sent back and forth between these Moors who were claiming the authority of claiming the authority of what no Noble Juali left. So in one of the letters it talks about that succession, the idea that Hold on. Okay. So author's thoughts. After the death of the beloved prophet Noble Juwali, several members of the Moorish movement began to break up into small groups. As a result, today there exists more than seven major fractions, each claiming to be the movement founded by Noble Juali in 1913.

Speaker 1: 29:39

Hold on, hold on, hold on. We got to pause right there, brother. Please, please remember that Seven factions of Morris Science Temple of America after he passed on.

Speaker 3: 29:53

Yeah, brother, and all of them are claiming authority. All of them are claiming that they're the one that is the succession of Nobu Juali.

Speaker 1: 30:05

Right Now. What I want to do on the next one is to identify all seven factions Now before we go into the rest of that right, seven factions is a whole other problem in my mind, because if seven factions came out after he passed on that early in 2025. Those seven tripled quadrupled. In 2025, those seven tripled quadrupled most definite so now we're working with a whole web of confusion when it comes to the prophet and his movement right.

Speaker 3: 30:49

So so if we look at, we have Givenzel, we have that faction, we have the Kirtland Bay faction. Right, we have the Meliel faction. Yeah, we have the Nation of Islam faction. They're more of a science temple too. They can play like they're not all they want to. Right, we have the low max bill.

Speaker 1: 31:15

The reason why I'm going to say I don't like to say that because I haven't seen enough evidence to that claim.

Speaker 3: 31:23

However, I get what you're saying, I get what you're saying Once we have Elijah Marvin in his fez, these people can't say nothing about, they don't know who the Moors are and they're not in the Moorish movement. Once we have, yeah, they don't wear fezes anymore. How come, why wouldn't you guys wear fezes anymore? If that's your foundation Fezes with the crescent and star on it and all that, that's their foundation crescent and star on it and all that, that's their foundation. So why would they stop wearing fezzes? If they're trying to disconnect from the moorish movement, that's the only way they'll take their fezzes off to disconnect from the moorish movement or the moorish nation now.

Speaker 1: 32:01

I just want to go into this now. After the nation of now, you said I can see where you're going with that. Now, what about the next faction? What would the next faction?

Speaker 3: 32:11

be. And then you have Sweet Daddy Grace. I heard of him who went off to do some Christian Hebrew whatever. You have Father Divine, I remember that, who went off to do some, and that's what. That's six of them. So then there's probably one or two more individuals who claim some authority of the Moorish or claim the authority of Nobu Juali to push their whatever it is that they're pushing, instead of just sticking to the program that Juali laid out, right to the program that you already laid out, right.

Speaker 1: 32:49

So now, now that we're clear on that, there could be possibly seven different factions. Now you can continue to read.

Speaker 3: 33:01

Yeah, I just want to find this letter. Pardon me. No, it's all good. There's so much in here that it's insane how much there is in here. Okay, okay, dear governors and officers, this is July 30th 19. July 30th 1929. Islam, get yourself together and be ready when he comes. I am leaving Saturday, august 3rd 29, for a tour to all the temples. That all things may be understood and that all wrongs made right and other express business that must be carried out on according to the Prophet's wishes. Peace your brother in Islam. Mili El, supreme Grand Sheikh. Attorney AH Payne, supreme Business Manager.

Speaker 1: 34:26

Supreme Business Manager. That's interesting. That is interesting, man. Oh my God, the prophet had things like no, this one is March 11, oh my God, the prophet had things like no.

Speaker 3: 34:38

This one is March 11th 1929. So this is before the transition. Brother Crumby Bay, the governor and chief head of Temple in Pittsburgh, brother Charles Bay, governor and chief head of the Temple in Cleveland, ohio. These two brothers are empowered by the prophet to investigate business ETC of temple number four in Detroit, michigan, because Lomax Bay has violated all divine laws of the prophet even before the prophet's face, february 15th 1929. He claims that the prophet has no more power and the finance from Detroit would be in his charge. He wouldn't send any to the prophet. He yelled with a loud voice Look at me, I will guide you through. This is lawful and living evidence spoken before 1,500 people and the prophet was also present. I, the prophet, declare his office vacant and the name of Grand Governor discharged. He can only be a member according to law, because the More Science Temple of America is a divine organization. Each temple is under supreme guidance of the prophet. When man fails, after being placed head of the temple by the prophet, of obeying our divine laws and constitutions, he is a traitor, an enemy to divine creed and unloyal to the national government USA.

Speaker 3: 35:56

So obviously there was stuff going on around Noble Drew Ali, while he was around, not after he died. While he was around, moors were trying stuff. So this is where the thing is, with the letters to be read every meeting, additional laws, being able to try to nip it in the bud before the stuff goes haywire. And they got him it in the bud before the stuff goes haywire and they got him out of the way before everything really really was solidified with the people as to you know who the sellouts are, you know what they should be doing, as far as you know, because it's not like he made an announcement they're going to take me out or whatever like that, but he was gone abruptly.

Speaker 3: 36:58

So the people who were following him were left with. Well, you know, well, what do we do? Well, okay. Well, that more over there saying he's the authority, all right, some of them run over there. Well, that more over there saying he's the authority all right, well, some run over there. Well, that more over there said that he got the books from the whatever. And again, the people not being in the mindset of, like, how we are today studying and stuff like that on a real level. You know, they were all emotional about the prophet's passing. So they just gravitated to whatever was the popular thing, not whether who was right or who was following the prophet or not.

Speaker 1: 37:39

Right, right, so now we have all of these different factions. Now what I'm trying to figure out is how can we rectify this, how can we change this? I think that there needs to be like like a cleansing, so to speak. I don't know if that's a good word, uh, because anything that uh has anything to do with cleansing, especially in the climate that we're in now, it's like like, uh, like what they call, like racial cleansing or something like that. Yeah, yeah, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about like, just Just like a, like an overhaul and a change within the movement. Right, like some kind of peace agreement, some kind of treaty, some kind of, you know, big meeting, you know, among head officials of each body, and come to some kind of agreement for the movement to bring the movement more together, more together to bridge the gap between the factions. I don't know if that's possible. Do you think that's possible?

Speaker 3: 38:52

Look at this, okay Marsh American Treaty of Peace and Friendship 2007. What year are we in now?

Speaker 1: 39:04

2025, man.

Speaker 3: 39:05

All right, so this is 2007. Right, and then we re-invoked this in 2019. Right.

Speaker 1: 39:18

Now, what's that about?

Speaker 3: 39:19

re-invoke this in 2019. Now, what's that about? I'm about to read it right now.

Speaker 3: 39:28

We, the undersigned Moors, find it necessary to enact a peace and friendship among ourselves in order to foster unity among ourselves. Since 1929, there has been a proliferation of many Moorish individuals, groups, organizations, nations, etc. Although we may not agree on every topic and issue, after the Prophet, we all agree that we must practice our five principles among ourselves, as handed to us by our ancestors and given to us by our Prophet, noble Juali, namely love, truth, peace, freedom and justice. How can we promote and teach these principles to the world if we do not practice it among ourselves? If our ancestors were able to enter into treaties of peace and friendship with Europeans due to the Great Schism, we need to re-establish the Treaty of Peace and Friendship of 2007 among ourselves, the Moors.

Speaker 3: 40:19

The treaty is very simple so that it can be agreeable to all Moors, moorish Americans. If we are to practice the five principles among ourselves, then we should be able to agree to the following we agree to practice love among ourselves. We agree to practice truth among ourselves. We agree to practice peace among ourselves. We agree to practice freedom among ourselves. We agree to practice justice among ourselves.

Speaker 3: 40:46

We agree not to kill or harm one another in any way. We agree not to slander one another in any way. We agree not to backbite one another in any way. We agree to work in unity and cooperation with one another in any way. We agree to build institutions that will foster and promote knowledge of self with one another. We agree to be industrious in building a social and economic base for our nation. We agree that united we stand, divided we fall. We agree to give supreme honors to our illustrious prophet, nolujuali. And then you go check all the leadership, whoever's, and ask them about the Moorish American Treaty of 2007,. And they're going to tell you they either know nothing about it or well, well, we didn't sign that because and then they make up some bs as to why they didn't sign it, which lets you know that that they're a seller because why wouldn't you sign a peace and friendship treaty amongst the moors to live by the five?

Speaker 1: 41:49

principles. I'll tell you why, because what are the specifics, what are the deep, what are the details? And signing, signing this, this agreement, what's gonna everything?

Speaker 3: 42:04

that was just read. So if they can't agree to everything that was just read, then they have an issue, because what was just read, no more should have an issue with any of that. I don't care what faction you come from. There's nothing in there that they should be debating about or saying no, I'm not going to sign that because and make up some reason there's absolutely no reason.

Speaker 1: 42:26

I'm going to tell you why. Because, let's say, the factions that are not, let's say, necessarily following the prophet's teachings Right, let's say necessarily following the prophet's teachings right Now, after signing that agreement, you have a connection to this faction that doesn't necessarily teach the prophet's teachings properly and then now, legally, that puts my, let's say, temple in jeopardy, or my body in jeopardy or my organization in jeopardy. If I'm connected to, let's say, if I'm connected to, the guy I forgot out there that was in what Rhode Island was his name, the guy I just signed a love, I just signed a peace treaty with this guy. I just signed a love, I just signed a peace treaty with this guy and he's now on the news running around with eight K's and and disturbing the peace and going against the property Once they violate, but once they violate it, now you know that they're a traitor, because why would they violate it?

Speaker 3: 43:30

That's cool. That's cool, right? That's the whole point. That's the whole point of the treaty. The whole point of the treaty is to be able to see who's who, and what's what?

Speaker 1: 43:40

Now watch this. Now watch this, because I'm speaking in terms of signing off on a treaty. Now I'm kind of like legally bonded to you in a sense. Right, yeah, so now let's say you violate, and you're out now in the, in the hedges and highways with with rifles, talking about this, the prophet's teachings. Now now we say, okay, that's the sellout. Now, right, but now what would be in place behind this documentation to to uh, uh, uh, uh, remy, remedy these types of?

Speaker 3: 44:14

issues. No, that's. That's why Juali said when these principles are not carried out, justice will then take its course. That's a lot, but that's not good enough.

Speaker 3: 44:28

Yeah, because we can't, because we're not. No more is going to be able to find a dirty Moore and bring him to the Moore's jail. Right now, no Moore is going to be able to find a dirty Moore and put him on the wall and bring the firing squad to deal with the case. Right, it can't happen because the Moore's dropped the ball in the 20s. We're trying to fix the issue that we were born into. You can't fix the issue that you were born into. You would have to be there from the inception to fix the issue.

Speaker 3: 45:12

We're looking at the effects of the cause, the cause people sold out Noble Drew Ali. We're living through the effects of the sellout and we're saying well, you know, we don't have a jail to throw these Moors in, so why be unified or why be whatever, when it's not why we can't punish them or why we can't do anything? It's about? Are we living by the principles? And the ones that aren't?

Speaker 3: 45:50

That's an obvious sign that these people aren't with the movement, obvious sign that these people aren't with the movement and they're not with noble juweli and they shouldn't be considered in in in the conversation of of being whatever they claim. But that's why juweli said works and deeds, not works of lips, because, because anybody could say that they're the supreme, whatever, prove it to me by showing to me that you're that, and when you go check the record, you see that majority of them didn't didn't do anything relative to keeping this thing alive. All their activity was actually to try to bury this, which is again why juweli said 50 years will go by and you wouldn't even know that I was here okay, now I'll let you cook now.

Speaker 1: 46:32

Now let me cook real quick. Now, understood, I'm saying this, I'm speaking in in in reference to those who might have gotten this letter, looked at it and declined to sign. I would see why that letter was it was declined here. The reason is because there is nothing, okay, but after the letter was any. Were there any additional uh paperwork or anything to back it up or go behind that?

Speaker 3: 47:09

just that letter no, no, there wasn't, because morse didn't. Morse didn't didn't sign on to it. So now, now, you get nothing. Now now you do what you're dealing with right now with all these traders and all these sellouts, because nobody wanted to sign the thing. So, whoever's out here, this is what you got now. It's no different than you already said oh, you want, you want european grand sheiks, and no problem, I'll give those to you. You can have european grand sheiks if you want, but that's not what this is about. Okay, now let me say that's what it's about.

Speaker 1: 47:41

But you know, no, I get you. I get you now. Now what I'm saying is like this right, whoever idea was that? Right, I don't know who idea was that great idea to come with the letter, but I think what was missing with that was more documentation and more reassurance as to if these principles are violated. What were the next steps? Because we have such a big problem, there has to be more details and it has to be better thought out. I would say If it was better thought out. I would say If it was better thought out, it would probably be more effective.

Speaker 1: 48:20

So you just can't just drop a letter off and say, hey, you guys sign this because this is just the right thing to do. It has to be documentation, other things to go with it for reassurance. Right, you know, because you know, just like I said, for instance, this issue with this guy, you know, with the AK-47,. Let's say, we signed this treaty with this guy. Now this letter is documented, it's put into government files and things. And then when the government or FBI starts to look at the Moorish movement and they notice there's a peace treaty signed Right now, you look at all the names that are signed on this treaty and it's like, ok, this guy that's with the AK is on this, this thing or his group. And now you got to see Kirkman Bay and Millie Hill groups in there too. You know what? Let's investigate them all. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3: 49:25

And then you know who's who. Then you find out who's who after they get investigated. How else are they going to find out?

Speaker 1: 49:34

I think that that's a great idea. The letter is a great, but there needs to be more content and depth to that letter.

Speaker 3: 49:44

But it's not going to be more because of all the sellouts, because they don't want to be held to any obligations. This is the whole point of having it so simple and so easy that if you can't sign this easy thing right here, that we're going to live by the principles amongst each other, we're going to live by love amongst each other, we're not going to backbite each other, we're not going to slander each other, we're going to be living in peace with each other, if you can't agree to those things, then it doesn't even make sense bringing up bringing up anything else, because that's the, that's the, that's the, the, the, the, that's the, the least, that's the lowest common denominator of what every Moorish should be doing anyways living by the principles amongst each other. But as soon as, as soon as we say, as soon as we say Moorish unity, and then somebody comes in and says, oh well, who's your supreme grand sheik? And they start talking like that the hell out of here.

Speaker 2: 50:40

What we need to know that for.

Speaker 3: 50:41

You got Nogu Juali as the prophet. What more? What we need supreme grand sheik, whatever for. Why is that in the conversation?

Speaker 1: 50:48

All right, Let me say this real quick, real quick, Now understood. Now I want to say I would assume that this idea came from the Treaty of Peace and Friendship. Between what was it?

Speaker 3: 51:05

Morocco, yeah, Morocco and the United States of.

Speaker 1: 51:08

America In that document. Now I'm sure you looked over it thousands of times right In that document. How long is that document in comparison to the document you've shown, the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the Moors?

Speaker 3: 51:34

Yeah, no, I mean the length of it. We could say how long is the Constitution, the divine Constitution, compared to the United States or American Constitution, but nobody's not saying oh, they're not following the divine. Constitution, because it's not long enough.

Speaker 1: 51:50

No, I'm not saying that they're still doing it, no, no, no, let me get to this point here Now. My whole point of it is that the document of peace and friendship between Morocco and the United States of America I'm going to assume that is very long and it has other things to go behind it, because this is a uh, this is an intricate uh and um. Vital piece of this is a vital uh, transition or communication between two very important nations. Right, so it has to come with more depth. It has to come with more depth, it has to come with more content than than, than, than just just a piece of, just a one piece of paper. It has to. Especially, we have more problems in our nation than than Morocco and the United States. Right, so we have to like, there has to be more to it than just one document.

Speaker 3: 53:00

The issue with that is that if there's going to be more to it, then there has to be more brains that are involved in creating it, and you can't even get there with Mars, you can't. Even the brother, kenick L years ago, was trying to start a credit union for the Moors, right, he needed I don't know some whatever amount of signatures. Right Now, this is not for him, this is for the Moors to have a credit union. Right, sends out whatever, all the information to all the different temples and whatever. Oh, certain people. They don't want to sign because, well, who's he? Oh, certain people don't want to sign because, oh well, they're not accepting.

Speaker 3: 53:43

You know my license. You know they're accepting nationality cards only as identification for this thing. Well, our Supreme Grand Sheik doesn't want anything to do with that. And all these excuses, all these excuses as to why they don't want to have a credit union. What would Morris be able to do if they had their own credit union? Probably more than they're doing right now with not a credit union. You would think logically that anybody who says that there are more would be done with the Morris Credit Union. Why wouldn't you be done with the Morris Credit Union, unless you're a trader and a sellout and you have nothing to do with it.

Speaker 1: 54:27

I don't mean to interject, but I have to Now check this out. The reason why is for the same exact reason why we're right now having a discussion about why there are so many factions Because you have the prophet, who has a great idea. He organizes it, he does all the necessary things to make it flourish. He does all the necessary things to make it flourish, and then there was people trying to overtake it and all types of stuff going on. He dies, and now there's a bunch of confusion. Now the credit union for the Moors, the same.

Speaker 1: 55:12

That's why you want to ask why who's running it, who's doing this, who's doing that? Because these are, these are, these are real great ideas, but real serious right to people's lives. We're talking about credit, we're talking about things that could affect people's lives, livelihood. You understand what I'm saying so. So those questions have to come up who's doing this, who's doing that? So, um, resume, I'm not, I'm not trying to cut you off, but resume is not enough. Right, but, but? But what I want to say is this what you said earlier is exactly the problem there are not enough brains behind these ideas. You got one person, two people, three people. It's not enough. We need more manpower and, with behind these ideas Now being that we're mores, we have so many things that we have to do. We have so many things that we have to do. It's hard to spread yourself in too many different directions, and we're all spread thin right now because because we are behind the ball.

Speaker 3: 56:26

Yeah, cause we didn't cause. Cause the people who were supposed to do what they're supposed to do didn't do that, so now we're trying to play catch up. If the people who were were in the authority did what they were supposed to do, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, which goes back again to these sellouts. After Noble Drew Ali, who, instead of having people proclaim their nationality with a temple, they're naturalizing mores. There's that, there's more science, temples, who took this as a religious thing, and now they just replaced Jesus with Noble Juali and they're singing hymns, and all that in the temple.

Speaker 1: 57:07

I'm going to tell you this though I like the singing, though.

Speaker 3: 57:15

You know what I mean. There's these issues that we have. This is just what it is. So it's either it's either we're gonna um, put all the bs aside and fix our issues, or the bs is gonna continue. The that that's and and, and.

Speaker 3: 57:30

I'm on the side of oh. So, oh you're, oh, you don't wanna, you don't wanna sign the All. Right, then obviously you're on some BS, because this is not some hard stuff to read and say you know what, for the nation, yeah, I'll sign this. Right, if I know that my death is going to mean all the Moors get the benefit, kill me tomorrow. Like, what's the issue? If I know every Moor is going to have their 40 acres and a mule tomorrow, just get me out of here. Then get me out of here so the Moors could have their stuff. Now go around to all the other grand whoever's and see if that's their mindset and guarantee you 60-70% of them are going to find some reason why not to take them out, why they got to be here and all that stuff, instead of giving up their life for the nation.

Speaker 1: 58:34

Guaranteed. Well, see, that's why I rock with you, because we think the same in that regard. Now, but the people like us. It's not a lot of us, brother.

Speaker 3: 58:46

Yes, you already knew that. That's why you said it's only going to be a handful saved with fingers left over. And he also said it would surprise me if a more would do right. So the best thing any more could do is do their best to do right as much as possible and make the profit surprised. And don't be those traders who claim that they were with him or whatever like that and then they went out and did all types of other stuff under the guise of you know they're Moors, they got a pheasant or they got whatever and they haven't done Jack for this, but cause confusion.

Speaker 1: 59:22

Well, we're about to close out. I want to unpack this, I want to unpack this fact on a lot. I want to unpack the factions on, on, on. On the next one, if we could look, if we could look into it a a little bit, just to identify who's who you know among the Moors, the factions, let's go into that a little bit. On the next podcast. We filmed this Mondays, but we're going to put it out on Saturday. Saturday, according to what I know, is supposed to deal with Saturn and discipline and things like that. Plus, everyone's at home chilling out so they can sit down and watch this. This is going to come out 3 pm, saturday.

Speaker 1: 1:00:12

On that note peace to everybody watching. We really appreciate you. Cool Joe, we're on every Monday building upon these topics the sellouts. On that note, we're out of here, thank you.