Can the Moors Unite? Navigating Factions in the Moorish Science Temple

The fractured landscape of the Moorish movement in America represents one of the great untold stories of our quest for identity and liberation. While many know fragments of this history, few understand how deeply interconnected these various Islamic and nationalist movements truly are.

Ron Brown and Kujo dive fearlessly into the historical divisions that have plagued the Moorish Science Temple of America since Noble Drew Ali's transition in 1929. Through careful examination of original correspondence and historical documents from the Mukarabin Files, they reveal the power struggle between Emile El and C. Kirkman Bey that established the template for factional division we still see today.

Perhaps most provocatively, they explore compelling evidence suggesting direct connections between the Moorish Science Temple and what would later become the Nation of Islam, Five Percent Nation, and other Islamic movements in America. From the early use of fezzes to similar honorifics and teaching methodologies, these movements appear to share common roots despite their public disavowal of each other.

The concept of "puppet masters" emerges as a central theme – those who maintain control over their particular faction while refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of others, keeping the Moorish movement divided for generations. Meanwhile, independent teachers who operate outside these structures often reach more people with their message than the official organizations.

Looking toward solutions, they propose that unity need not require abandoning organizational distinctions but rather embracing a common Moorish nationality that transcends specific affiliations. What prevents this unity isn't doctrine or principle but rather ego and emotion – human factors that have kept a potentially powerful movement fractured for nearly a c

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Speaker 1: 0:23

check it out, check it out. Thank you for coming out this evening, brother Cujo. It is New Yorker's Perspective NYP Talk Show and I'm your host, ron Brown, lmt, and we are here in the building let's talk about it. Can the Moors unite? We had that on the last one, this one, we're pretty much going into that more in depth, talking about the factions of the Moorish Science Temple of America. We last night I was watching Taharqa Bay's Claude Green presentation.

Speaker 1: 1:02

I couldn't watch it all because Taharqa Bay, he's got a lot going on, man, he's got, he played like five different tracks and then, right after playing the five different tracks, then he went into it. Um, you know, I don't know, man, but uh, I, I tapped in and I tapped out, tapped in and tapped out and plus, honestly, I, honestly I'm really not interested no disrespect to nobody out there, but I'm not interested in who had the keys and the heir of the thrones and things like that, because to me that was like so long ago, you know. I think that we should move forward and start having some different conversations and stop being emotional over no disrespect, dead people, sorry, sorry, sorry, no disrespect. I'm talking straight, I'm tired. That's how it goes with me. You know what I'm saying. So that's how I'm thinking.

Speaker 1: 1:57

I don't know, I could be wrong. I could be wrong. I think that 2025, we're here. I see Cujo, I see me. I see Cujo, I see me. I see Tahaka Bay, I see other Moors, I see Brother Sharif Bay. I see this more, that more those years before us, or 50 years ago. It makes no sense to me. But what do you think about it, kujo? What do you think about it?

Speaker 2: 2:35

Peace to you and the platform. Peace to Brother Mikey. I think the, the, the, the past gives us an idea. It's not foolproof because, like you're saying, we weren't there so we don't really have a say. We're going on what was left, what was said. You know what I mean. But the issue that not dealing with the past brings is that when you start dealing with the present, the bleed over of the past is going to be in the present. You know what I mean. Um, you're gonna have people you know like, um, um, you know they meet them more and then they want to know who their, who their supreme grand chic is, for example. You know I mean when, that you know, if I say I'm more, you say you're more, like what? What we need to know that for, unless those people are the ones who are moving this individual like a puppet, like that's the only reason that would come up who's your, who's your grand chic, or whatever. Like that, like the only reason that's coming up when two mores are dialoguing, because somebody, somebody has their hand.

Speaker 1: 4:02

Let's talk about it Time out. The's talk about it Time out the Puppet Masters Right, Puppet Masters. What I learned from this community. I'm not talking about just the Moorish community. Yeah, I'm talking about the community, Like you know. I'll be specific. You're talking about the 5% Nation, Moorish Science. I've also been a part of the New Black Panther Party at one point, man.

Speaker 1: 4:35

Puppet Masters brother, it's crazy. So what it is to me is like a cluster of people who click up and they know each other. They've been around each other for years, yeah, and they have their format. You get what I'm saying. And whoever's coming around or in the cypher, they kind of like play security for whatever reason. I don't know what it is. I don't know if that's a natural human thing for people to do. I've just never been a person that stayed in a cluster of group or clique of people. Even when I was in high school, I was with this clique, I was with that clique, I was with that. I was all over the place. I wasn't with one specific group of people. So I don't know, excuse me, I don't know what's that about? You know, but this puppet master stuff that you're talking about, can you expound on that?

Speaker 2: 5:40

From like. We came up getting this information from multiple sources. So we have one of the brothers, brother Sheldon L, made a video called Morvengers. This is on the Canaan Landmores YouTube and the Morvengers is basically putting into the forefront the master teachers, the sub-master teachers, the sub-sub-master teachers that we look at. These are the ones to study from right, based on our years of being in this, and who resonates with the people, who resonates with us, who deals with this on the love principle, who deals on the truth principle, the peace, freedom, justice principles, and use that as a template for where more should go if they're coming into this to learn.

Speaker 2: 6:48

Now, the, the puppet masters in in the moorish paradigm, are the ones who talk against these same people that we're talking about. You know, don't, don't study from them. Noble juweli didn't bring that. You hear that a lot, right, noble juweli didn't bring that. You hear that a lot, right, noble juweli didn't bring that. So you can't listen to them. Um, oh, he's, he's not wearing his sash or something like that. Or, or his feathers is orange, or. You know, noble juweli didn't bring that. Oh, you know, um, brothers can't this, brothers can't that. Violation of divine, this and all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 7:29

But then when you check the puppet master and their puppets' works, it doesn't equate to where we're supposed to be at. You know what I mean. So when we look at, well, if we use RV Bay Publications, for example, right, there should be a one. If we're talking more science temple, right, there should be a one site. More science temple right there should be a one site. The Morris Science Temple right. Now it gives all the succession and all that stuff. Wait, hold on. Talk about the Supreme whatever, whatever, Hold on.

Speaker 1: 8:18

That's the same idea that I have bro about the Morris website. Wow, that's crazy. Right, Like all the positions, the official positions.

Speaker 2: 8:29

Yeah, who's what right and that's what it should be. Yeah, that makes sense, that's what it should be. Now, if we use RV Bay Publications as an example again, now, if we went RV Bay Publications and five of them popped up, wouldn't you look at that as funny? And then five of them are different people saying different stuff than that one, and you're going to look at this stuff like what the hell is this? Why are there five different ones? You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 9:01

So saying that to say these things haven't been done, right, that coming together of all these people who are saying that they're different factions of the whatever, and different supreme grands and different temple number ones and different conventions and all that stuff, and different temple number ones and different conventions and all that stuff, in 100 years, these people should have probably said, hey, you know what? We're causing a lot of confusion. This is just the leadership. The puppet masters, all the puppet masters, should have came together and said you know what, in honor of Noble Juali, we should probably have one grand, major temple. Where is it going to be? Well, jolly said chicago's mecca. So, okay, we should probably make. Make that spot right. Um, um. And then all the whoever's that are saying that they're more science temple of america, whether it's ink, whether it's reincarnated, whether it's unity temple, whether it's whatever, all of, whether it's a unity temple, whether it's whatever, all of them, all the puppet masters, all of them, should have came together, stayed this one thing and we wouldn't have to have these type of conversations.

Speaker 2: 10:15

But because these things weren't done, this is why you have a Taj Tariq Bey, this is why you have a Raz Mariah Bey, this is why you have a Alim Bey, an Asir, because those master teachers realize that these puppets aren't going to do, they're not going to do what they're supposed to do. They're not going to do it, for whatever reason, it's not going to happen. So we're going to take it on ourself to do these things right. What needs to be done? For the benefit of the Moors, the benefit of the nation, benefit of you know the children, benefit of the honor of Noble Juali. They said on themselves you know what these people out here that are playing puppet master, since we can't get with them, you know what I mean and we're not going to join them.

Speaker 2: 11:22

We're going to do our best to do our own thing and then, when you check all those people's records, you'll see that they've put in work. Just look at the people who say honors to them while not saying honors to the supreme grand, whoever, and not saying honors to. You know, if we, if we pull up all those more science whoever's right now and we pull up their, their video archives, if you got, you know, 220 views, 50 views, that you pull up a seer hundreds a thousand, attach hundreds a thousand, you know, pull up, pull up um. You know, um oba shango l few thousand, it's not gonna right, it's not gonna be um um limited.

Speaker 2: 12:02

You know, as far as the reach, the reach of the people who are who the puppet masters would call renegades of the Moorish movement, their reach is way more than the people who are claiming the authority which is supposed to discontinue them at that point, because if you're not reaching the people, then what the hell are you in this for? Because this is really about reaching the people. This is really about influencing the people toward the Moorish movement, toward Nova Juali, so that they can, in turn, proclaim their nationality, and then we could start getting the numbers on the side of having a nationality opposed to. Oh well, that, that that's cool, but I'm gonna stay over here and I'm gonna be black and proclaiming my nationality because moors are sovereign citizens, or moors are, and then they start talking all this confusion, stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with us being moors or not got you well said well put man, now I'm.

Speaker 1: 13:07

I said we were going to talk about the factions. I want to talk about the faction you come from, right, so you come from the taj tarik bay, rv bay. Uh, um, sorry about that. Do you guys hear the phone? Yeah, okay, pardon me. So the faction you come from. Can you explain that? Where do you, the faction you come from, and where does it derive its authority from?

Speaker 2: 13:40

Okay. So when we came into this in 2008, um, grant one in Chicago these Moors left the act because of corruption and fraud and whatever else and started saying that they're Grand Major Temple. Right, they took the seals and all that stuff because these people were doing BS over there. So they're saying they're Grand Major Temple. This is same body with our Neil Bay, right? That's how we came into this through Neil Bay. On our inception into this, we were put on record about all the masters Brother Heru Ranisiel Aralanta I've heard of him. Brother Sharif Bey Wait, wait, wait, hold on.

Speaker 1: 14:43

Wait, we got to rewind that. Hold on, okay, so you're saying the faction that you came from through Arnel Bay? Yeah, okay, these are the Moors that helped build that temple, or? These are the Moors who established themselves as Grand Major Temple after leaving Grand Major Temple because they found out about corruption there.

Speaker 2: 15:46

Grand Major Temple had Arnel Bay in it. This is the newly created Grand Major Temple.

Speaker 1: 15:53

Okay, arnel Bay Heru Reniciel yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:59

Now they weren't in it. These are who the leadership of that temple were telling us. These are the moors that you want to stay close to if you're studying, okay, so the names that they brought up were grand chic nature, grand chic naturel, bay um alim el bay, raz mariah bay, taj tariq bay, sharif bay, heru ranasi, l L Oba Shango L Brother Abdullah and few other Moors in there. They said you stick with these Moors, you'll be good with regard to learning this information the correct way, because we learned from the Supreme Grandwhoevers and don't even waste your time with them. Don't even waste your time with those people because look where the Moorish movement is, with them in charge of it. And again, this is after me trying to find a Moorish science temple or some Moorish authority to get us involved, because we were interested and Neil Bay being the only one that said hey, come, check it out, come to the temple and see what it's about. I'm not telling you what it is online, you know. So when we went to check it out, we got. We got the the download on on everybody the people who are the puppet masters and the people who were righteous.

Speaker 2: 17:56

You know, um, independent, fearless. You know, master teachers. Um, you know, if have a lecture, you want to go to that. You know we're bringing whoever here next week to do a lecture. And from that time 2008, to now, all those more is still right and exact. Those more is still right and exact as far as you know where their, where their knowledge base is, and and you know um. Now, some of them might have some different affiliations that we might look at, funny right, but you know um. And and also to Dawid Ali El and Ken Ube, and then Ken Ube, who's Supreme Grand Sheik right now of Temple, temple no 1.

Speaker 1: 18:53

Now Supreme Grand Sheik of Temple no 1. What?

Speaker 2: 18:58

faction is that that's the Bailey El faction.

Speaker 1: 19:03

Okay, can you explain the factions Like the breakdown?

Speaker 2: 19:08

So when, when, when Noble Juali was around, there was Noble Juali and the Supreme Grand Council and there was no factions, right, it was just Noble Juali and whoever was on the Supreme Grand Council After Noble Juali transition, that's when you have the thing with the factions coming up. So there was.

Speaker 1: 19:45

I'm going to say this before you go on, because you're going to say Mille, from what I learned from that Taharqa presentation last night was that before the Prophet passed on, there was already a split. This is what he claims.

Speaker 2: 20:04

Yeah, they started their activity. This is why you have um nobu juali writing the letters to be read every meeting. And all that because they already started the infiltration before he even transitioned right, it was already. It was already going, you know. So he was sending letters to Moors warning them about hey, watch out for these Moors over here. Oh, you're in Detroit, oh, watch out for that Moor over there. He already stole some finance or whatever. So the split was already happening.

Speaker 2: 20:36

This is why we lean toward Nobujeweli being assassinated, not dying of some illness or whatever like that, because they needed him out of the movement. They had to get him out in order for them to take control of it. But you can't, you're not. You know, if there's all these factions, then it's not going to be one that's going to have control, control. There's going to be a splintered. There's going to be the power is going to be siphoned off in different areas. So let's say there was, let's say there was, let's say there was five factions right out of 100%. Then everybody got 20% and thought they had the 100%, got you, and then they went. Then they carried on with their 20% as if they have 100%.

Speaker 1: 21:35

Right Now you were getting ready to go into the factions. Now you said Emilio.

Speaker 2: 21:40

Yeah, so, emilio, and that was who, as far as the literature and the letters, or whatever Nobujuali is, who made the authority right, for if anything goes on, he's the one that's going to be in charge. Kirtman Bay, givenzel, lomax Bay, kirtmanman bay, you said that right, and then you have um. Then you have um elijah and fard and all those people wait a minute.

Speaker 1: 22:15

So how would okay the when you mention elijah and Farad, it throws me off because I've never seen anything that indicates or like any real valid evidence that they were a part of the temple. Only thing I've seen was just like maybe they had John Hancock on like a some kind of attendance sheet, if you will, but we don't really know. It's not substantial the evidence. So when you mention Elijah and Farad and I'm not being biased or anything like that, because I come from the opposite nation and 120 technically comes from Farad and Elijah but my thing is like what's the real truth about that? Were they really involved in the temple? And if they were, because you're making it as it being a part of the moorish factions and I don't, I don't think that's legitimate, like I don't think that. I don't think that they belong in that that list. I think when you put them in that list you throw people off because we're looking for bays and ills yeah, well, well, fard, fard was a l and elijah was a bay.

Speaker 2: 23:47

and if you go to, if you go to, there's a. There's a panoramic picture of the first morris convention. There's a panoramic picture that asks anybody in the Supreme Grand, whatever, and they'll be able to show you the panoramic picture. And on the right back, elijah Muhammad's there as a flag bearer. Yeah, I saw that, I think. Yeah, yeah. So if he's in the picture at the Moorish Convention, then he's a part of this. Now, what they did after that is why the people say that they're confused. Why would you put them in there? Because they're looking at Nation of Islam as being that's what that is, but that's not what that is. That's Allah's Temple of Islam, and then before that, that was more a science temple. All these people did was change the sign.

Speaker 1: 24:51

Okay, that's a heavy claim there, brother.

Speaker 2: 24:54

Yeah it's a lot, but that's just what it is, you know, that's why they had fezzes and all that. That's why they called in the early years. They called before. Fard was Allah in person. He was Prophet Fard. Why is he Prophet Fard?

Speaker 1: 25:22

He's not a prophet In our lessons. It does say prophet, though.

Speaker 2: 25:27

How do you get prophet If the prophet is Nobu Juali? And remember, his prophet came from 1930 onward Pre-1930, he wasn't known as Prophet Fard.

Speaker 1: 25:43

I mean, look, I'm going to say this man't. I don't have any substantial evidence to to make that claim, but let's say just to make an educated guess, though, uh, I would put that I would say he could quite have possibly been in the temple, because look from the phases to the prophet, talk to the islam, the flags flag, asiatic black man and all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 26:13

Everything points to their foundation is nobu juwali. Um the supreme, the supreme lessons. Question and answer. That's the 101 questionnaire, right? They just changed, you know, just just started talking about their own stuff, but they did the same catechism have the question with the answer. You memorize your stuff right and you get challenged on your thing. Or question 16, question 8, question whatever. It's the same template, they just call it something different. And and again, you know, um, the, the substantiate of the substantiated proof, evidence or whatever is.

Speaker 2: 26:57

I'm not a goofball, I have I. My faculties are working properly. I'm not dumb, I'm not DD, I'm not ADHD, dyslexic, anything like that. I'm. I'm fairly competent in, in my, in my thinking abilities. You know what I mean and you know one-on-one equals two like this is not some hard stuff to figure out, unless I'm looking at this thing all emotional. And you know, I got attachments to the same thing. I got attachments to a faction and all that stuff. So now I'm going to try to defend my faction, because you can't talk about the master teacher like that and all that stuff. Come on, stop it, stop it. You know, just just, either you accept it or don't. Well, you don't got to play around like trying to defend something. You either accept it or you don't. Now, when I see Nation Islam 1930 to 1934-36 with fezzes on, and then they don't have Fezzes, and then Nation Islam, people are telling me well, elijah Muhammad banned the Fez because he didn't want to be connected with the Moors, who were criminals and all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 28:15

Yeah, or something like that. Obviously you're trying to disconnect from your foundation, because why wouldn't you keep the Fezzes? Why would a Fez connect you to some like that doesn't even make sense. That that's why you're gonna. You know I mean right, right. You know it doesn't add up the the, the justification for, for their founding, doesn't add up to me. When I did my research, you know what I mean and you know, like there's books. I have a library at my house. I know Moors, you know we study, we build Other Moors. Do some research. They might find a book, send that book. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 28:55

And there's too much evidence out there to prove otherwise that all these people were part of this.

Speaker 2: 29:06

When Nobu Juali transitioned, everybody took a percentage of it, whether it's in lessons, whether it's in finance, whether it's in dress code, whether it's in language, they took it. And then they went over there and did their own thing and tried to say that oh yeah, we found it in whatever year, and now this is what we are. And then everybody went oh yeah, we found it in whatever year, and now this is what we are. And then everybody went oh yeah, that's what they are. And then everybody went with that's what they are, when that's not really who they are. They should be telling there, and it would be more honorable for them to come out and say you know what, yeah, elijah Fard Ugan, and going down the list of all the people all these people were part of Morissette's temple because of whatever they left, and we started our own thing. It'll be better for them to say that than to pretend like they have no connection to it, only for it to be found out later that oh, there actually is a connection.

Speaker 1: 30:00

And then you know they don't want to to accept that that reality now to find out whether they were connected or not, like concrete evidence, so that there's no denying it. That has to happen, so that could be squashed right. Or at least, if it's not squash, because people will still keep up on, keep up with a lie, you know. So as long as the youth has you know, has it, then you know. That's all I care about anyway.

Speaker 2: 30:35

And again, that comes from. That comes from research. So if you're researching, if you're researching, what would be the subject matter? The subject matter would probably be probably be islam in america. If you go and you do your research on islam in america from the 1900s to the 1930s, 80 of the information is gonna have a section where they're talking about more science, temple and and they're talking about the factions by section, where they're talking about Morsan's Temple and they're talking about the factions by name and they're talking about the connection between the Nation of Islam and Morsan's Temple, how the Morsan's Temple is the Nation of Islam's foundation.

Speaker 2: 31:16

80% of the research material on Islam in America starts with Nobu J Jew Ali being the founder of Islam in America for the Asiatic Blacks, right, there was nobody teaching Islam out here for our people before him, so he's the founding of that. And then everybody else who came after. And just on that alone, just on that alone, all these people who are claiming Islamic whatever should be given supreme honors to Nawab Juali because he's the founder of it here and they wouldn't be teaching Islam in America if it wasn't for Nawab Juali.

Speaker 1: 31:58

Got you. Now, this is a good conversation. I would love to talk about this with eric brother, eric muhammad. But eric muhammad I don't know, we'll, we'll see. Well, you know, eric muhammad is, uh, he says elijah, wd farad or nothing. Yeah, that's his, that's his mindset. But you know, um, to go into the factions a little bit more, now we understand you're making elijah and wd ferrara part of those factions. Your point on that makes a whole lot of sense. So I'm not gonna disagree with you right now on that and I'm not gonna agree on that yet because I have to do my own research Now, as far as the other factions you mentioned, milleal- you mentioned.

Speaker 1: 32:54

C Kirkman Bay. Those two names are very popular especially nowadays.

Speaker 2: 33:01

Yeah, the fight was mainly between them, got you. Can you explain that the tension was mainly between them? Let me find this letter Okay. The following letter is a letter sent from Brother Emile L, supreme Grand Sheik of the MSTA, to Brother Crumby Bay of 536 West 12th Street, indianapolis, indiana, dated June 17, 1931, and reads as follows Islam, my dear brother, I am agreeably surprised as well as glad to hear from you at this time. I have often wondered what happened to you.

Speaker 2: 34:06

Now, speaking of Dov El, you didn't give much understanding as to what this party was doing or where he was operating or who gave him his authority if he acts in the lines of Islam, so find out what this brother is teaching his right to do so and who did he receive it from? Now, the whole trouble is this when I was on my way around to visit the Prophet's temples in August of 1929, kirtman Bay was made Supreme Grand Advisor by a group of members secretly, and it was kept secret, unbeknown to me what was on, till we were ready to transact our regular business in the convention. Then they sprang this trick of making Kirtman head of the organization, which is in direct violation of the Prophet's laws and the Holy Quran, according to chapter 10, verse 22. Of our prophet, which they knew, you would not be expecting any surprise and that. So they thought that was the time for them to put him over. But I had stated in the outset, in advance of any official work, that in view of the passing of the prophet and the much confusion that was very rampant at that time, we wouldn't be able to do anything effective except choose a grand treasurer and a board of trustees, which the prophet said himself we should have. Anything else, I declared, would be unofficial till the next regular meeting of the Supreme Grand Council.

Speaker 2: 35:47

He, kirtman Bay, was made advisor anyway. But I knew I had been given the power by the Prophet in the first article of the Constitution to change anything that went wrong by the Holy Quran and Constitution, which we did in the last convention. But he doesn't think so. He decided against him. Yet he is still acting against the will of the Holy Prophet Juwali. But can you expect he thinks he has perfect right to do what he is doing, because so many of the governors and grand sheiks fell after the passing of the Prophet and most of them are with him now and against the Prophet. They are fighting me because I won't stand for Kurtman Bey to act as Supreme Grand. Whoa, where did you? Where is that again? This is, this is the the um after noble transition and where's that information?

Speaker 1: 36:59

oh, this is in the.

Speaker 2: 37:00

This is in the muka rabbin files, the same book that I showed you, yeah right, um, um.

Speaker 2: 37:08

Now, some of of who are with him as against the prophet. And I say against the prophet because when you fail to recognize the man the prophet appointed and give him your cooperation and support, you have virtually turned down the prophet for someone else of, according to their ways and actions and works Brother TW Osley, milwaukee. Brother F Nelson Bay of Detroit. Brother C Charles Bay of Cleveland. Sister M Cliff Bay, indianapolis. Sister Dove L, chicago. These don't write me when I write them, because I won't accept Kirtman Bay as in place of Drew Ali, and I never do. Well, the time is proving all true. According to divine plans, he said, children there won't be, but a few saved. Because you are not going to do what I tell you. Your way you want and your way you are going to have, but your way leads downward children. So you better do like I tell you. If you do like I tell you, there is a chance for you. If not, there is nothing for you but death. They govern their actions by majority, which is all right if the majority is right. On the other hand, if only one is right, then that one is the majority. That's Islam. But they won't. But they want to run the more science temple of America according to the principles of Christianity or politics. Now, who's saying that right there? This is Meliel talking right now. But if I would do that, I would be alright with them. But but drew ali said to me on his sick bed before he passed you do what I tell you, never mind what they say. I have given you law, quran and constitution and I expect you to enforce my law and do what I say, never mind what I say. Divine prophet of our God, allah, and I'm going to expect you at the next convention that you may forego things amiss, because to follow anyone now except Juwali, you have no part with him. I hope I have made myself and the cause clear to you and, if not, write for further information. Peace.

Speaker 2: 39:47

Emili L, supreme Grand Sheikh, noble Juwali Founder. Emilie L, supreme Grand Sheik, noble Juwali founder. And then we have September 26, 1930, islam Brother C, kirkman Bay. This is to notify you that the above named organization, more Science Temple of America, in convention September 15th to 20th, rescinded by voting out the mistake made by the second annual convention of 1929. And in doing so, you hold your membership role as when our prophet was here, and we hope you will still cooperate with the organization under the five principles. We hope further that you would comply with this notice and govern yourself accordingly. There is but one supreme grand advisor in the Morissian Temple of America, that being Nobu Juali, and anyone else attempting to be from now on is assuming authority of himself and is liable to the penalties of the law. Peace, morissian Temple of America. Nobu Juali, founder. What year was that? That one was 1930. That was 1930.

Speaker 1: 41:14

That's an interesting. This is interesting, right here.

Speaker 2: 41:18

Interesting information.

Speaker 1: 41:21

Can you tell the people where to?

Speaker 2: 41:22

find that I don't know where you're going to get it now. I know that it's on Scribd, but just look it up the Mukara Bean files and something's going to pop up either on Scribd or I think there's a couple of websites with it on it.

Speaker 1: 41:41

PDFs, mukarabin files.

Speaker 2: 41:43

Yeah, M-U-Q-A-R-R-A-B-E-N files Mukarabin files. An answer to the 45th question by Richard R Edwards L.

Speaker 1: 41:58

Okay, and who is Richard R Edwards L? Where is he?

Speaker 2: 42:02

from. I guess he's just a Moor who decided to document everything that he had and put it in a book which you know again. You know this should be in the hands of every Moorish American, and if they don't have it it's probably because the people who's called out in here makes them look like.

Speaker 1: 42:25

Okay, so what Millie Eel was saying is that the C Kirkman Bay was basically taking the movement more into like a Christian kind of church. Yeah, which that's not. That wasn't the goal Exactly.

Speaker 2: 42:45

From, from, from the beginning, from the beginning and then and then Noble Juali. Hold on, let me just put this one out there too. Find this one letter by Noble Juali. I'll find this one letter by Nodu Dru Ali. Okay, this is December 27th 1928.

Speaker 2: 43:35

Be very careful of propaganda and news that you hear. There is a certain movement from the churches to destroy our movement and dishonor me, and that have been paid both Europeans and Asiatics. And any outside letter that you receive, let me know the messages. Then I will know that you are a Moor and I favor Moors. We Moors must stand in unit and I favor Moors. We Moors must stand in unit. We stand together according to deeds and actions and not words of lips.

Speaker 2: 43:58

This letter is to be read to the temple. The 8th of January is my birthday, that will be your Christmas, and all presents are to be sent on that day. I look for all faithful Moors to send me a present on that day, no matter how small or how large, let it be finance or domestic. It is the law of Allah, not mine, and I am his son, one of his sons. We are under the crescent and star, the same as other prophets have been, and the world is under the same Love to all Peace, noble Jew Ali. All peace, noble Jew Ali. So during Noble Jew Ali's time, he knew that there was a certain movement from the churches that were trying to destroy what it is that he's doing. And then why was that? Because Islam is really our religion as Asiatics. It's not Christianity, and anybody who's teaching you that Christianity is our religion. They're probably working with the other side to try to keep you in mental slavery.

Speaker 1: 45:05

But with this document? Who's talking Nubu Jalili? Yeah, that last one that I read, Right. Who's talking Nobujo Ali? Yeah, that last one that I read Right Now. He's saying that churches were basically trying to move in on his movement and overtake it pretty much Well, not even overtake.

Speaker 2: 45:24

Destroy his movement Right, right, right. Destroy his movement and dishonor him Right.

Speaker 1: 45:32

Now, who were those churches around at that time?

Speaker 2: 45:36

Yeah, we don't have that info. I'm sure somebody out there has more stuff relative to that time frame.

Speaker 1: 45:49

It'll be interesting to research who were in contact or in had direct conflict with the moray science temple at that time, because if we dig deep into that, maybe we'll find some other things. Yeah, that will connect with the things that we already have now.

Speaker 2: 46:08

Uh, wow, this is this is now one of one of the interesting things too in this is and that have men paid, both Europeans and Asiatics, and any outside letter that you receive, let me know the message. That's the same thing that they did with the Panthers and all them and Al Rockens and all them. Have some outside party sending letters to each everybody that they didn't send to each other and then have them beefing with each other over some fake letters that some agent wrote. That's Cointelpro, but this is 1928. Cointelpro wasn't around yet. So you can see that.

Speaker 2: 46:53

You know, nobu Juali is the foundation of everything. Nobu Juali is the foundation of how to destabilize anything Asiatic. That's successful. Right, him and Garvey, because they did the same thing with Marcus Garvey and the members of the UNIA, and the members of the UNIA turned the members of the UNIA against Garvey over some $3 mail fraud, which you know $3, that's what you're mad about. He did mail fraud for $3 and he's going to federal for that. Yeah, that's wild Right. And then for him to get exonerated and have because, remember, they just released, they just gave him his pardon, right, right, what was that?

Speaker 2: 47:50

100 years it took them to pardon him right oh so if they're pardoning, then that means that stuff was some bs. Then right, because why would they give him a pardon if he's guilty, right? So that's to let everybody know that these people trumped up stuff on him.

Speaker 2: 48:08

and that goes for we, the boyE, du Bois, naacp, all them people, all those black sorority, whoever's Right, that were playing like oh yeah, you know black liberation and all that BS, when all these people were against Marcus Garvey and set him up to be in federal for $3 mail fraud, right. And then you check the pattern, right. You see the ones who get assassinated or get railroaded, those ones are the ones that are the righteous ones and the ones that get to stay around the Jesses and the Al's and the Farrakans and all these people who you know they didn't get assassinated. How come they didn't assassinate Farrakhan yet, if he's so for the liberation of the Black people and all that stuff, and he's the savior of the whatever they can't put something in his drink or something yet he's still around. But then el haj, who was talking against those people because he realized the fraud or whatever, he went to mecca and realized the fraud that these people were on teaching people being black and all that.

Speaker 2: 49:30

And then he comes back here and he shot up at his own stuff. He wasn't even at an NOI thing. He was at his own thing, not even in their jurisdiction, and he's getting shot up at his own stuff. You know what I mean? You know Riz Islam why is he still around? He's supposed to be on some Medicare fraud charges with his moms right now, how he get off Medicare fraud charges. Okay, how Farrakhan get back into the country after he was talking crazy to US in 86 with Gaddafi and and getting the five million from gaddafi and all that. They can't, they can't tell me what to do or whatever like that. And then he's back in the country and nobody's talking about him and bratton bay and and ava muhammad and all of them meeting up and and setting up the whole thing for him to get back into the country by naturalizing through Temple 13 in Baltimore. And that's documented. That's a documented fact. And that he didn't come through New York, that he came through New Orleans.

Speaker 1: 50:58

Those are documented facts okay, I'm gonna have to rewind this there's correspondence.

Speaker 2: 51:07

There's letter correspondence between Nation of Islam and Temple 13 Baltimore. I saw that one. Yeah, with regard to um Fard getting his nationality and all that stuff in order to get back here because you died, s is going to stop him at the border and all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 51:26

You gotta be careful and oh no, I was mentioning the one about Farrakhan. I think it was Farrakhan. I forgot who it was, but someone from the nation of Islam. They were corresponding with the Moorish Science Temple. Yeah, farrakhan. So it was Farrakhan and not not Farad. It was Farrakhan, not.

Speaker 2: 51:51

Farad Farrakhan yeah.

Speaker 1: 51:53

Farrakhan, right. So that's all interesting right there. Wow, that's um. See these things. This is what we need slides for slide presentation so people can see what we're talking about. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like there's a lot of now being that all we have all of this information out here and other things to uncover and a overall goal which is to uplift fallen humanity and unite Asia. Right, that's the overall goal of the prophet. So, in this day and time 2025, why is it seems so hard for us to come together, put the facts on the table and we submit to the will of the truth and move forward as a unit?

Speaker 2: 52:39

I'm thinking it's because, um, uh, we are in an era where men are super emotional right now yep and and and and ego driven right, emotional and ego drivendriven that's the powder keg for disunity People who got egos and people who are driven by emotion and don't want to accept the truth. The truth is that our people don't have a nationality, right, when we look at outside of the Moorish nation, right, all the other people who look like us, look like you, look like me, look like Brother Yusuf, look like Brother Mikey All these individuals are going around claiming to be something that they're not, when there's actually something that we should be claiming that we are Right. And once we claim that, then we shouldn't have any, there shouldn't be any issues. Right, right because, because that's the, that's the foundation of, of all human beings what's your nationality?

Speaker 1: 54:13

right, this is a great topic and you know you put it together pretty well. You gave some great information of who would be the leaders or the names main staple names for the factions Elijah and Farad in there too. I want to unpack that a little bit more, even though we went over that. But I want to unpack that a little bit more. Let's just keep going over the factions on this podcast until we come to some kind of conclusion.

Speaker 2: 54:48

Again, with regard to the factions, all they have to do is come together under Noble Juali and stop playing around like they're the ones that are the authority. It's not them, it's not the supreme whoever's, it's not the grand whoever's, it's not the you know, whoever made up the title, consular general or whatever? Nobujewari is the foundation. That's the foundation. What should we be living by? We should be living by the five principles. That's not hard stuff for everybody to agree on. That's easy. You're going to live by the principles. Yes, we're going to stop playing puppet master games and bringing up those people. Forget them, because we've been here a hundred years and these people have done nothing with what they have. They have the keys for the salvation of a nation and they've done nothing with it. And if they've done something, it's for their selfish self. It's not for the salvation of a nation and they've done nothing with it. And if they've done something, it's for their selfish self, it's not for the nation as a whole. Because if it was for the nation as a whole, then we would still have Unity Hall right now. That wouldn't be an apartment building. We would still have Community Center. We would have a Grand Treasury. Now if we had a treasury in Juali's time and these people kept the treasury and they kept putting to the treasury or whatever like that till now.

Speaker 2: 56:20

What do you think the Moors will have right now If the Vatican started in 1913, right, and look where they're at now. What do you think the Moors will be if these people stuck to the program from when noble drew ali established this to now? We would be better as a people. They can't say no, we won't, because everything else that started 100 years ago it's either dissolved or it's prosperous do you think it's possible to treaty between each nation, from the Millie Hill to Kirkman to NOI to 5%?

Speaker 1: 57:05

Do you think there's a possibility of treaty with these groups?

Speaker 2: 57:09

Once they all say that they have a nationality and there better not be some made up stuff that they made up at their house.

Speaker 1: 57:18

And there better not be some made up stuff that they made up at their house. So you say everyone goes under the name Moorish.

Speaker 2: 57:24

That's what our nationality is. Now you could say Moorish Cherokee, moorish Hebrew, israelite, moorish Nation of Islam, moorish nation of gods on earth, moorish whatever, and then all these people and all these organizations they got Ellen Bay and all that stuff. You know, clarence 13X Bay, if that's what you want to ride with, just have the nationality. There is where I'm looking at it. You know what I mean, because all you got to do is put Morish on it. You know, if you're saying you're UNIA, you're taking that Negro out there and you're putting Morish there, because no way you're saying United Negro Improvement or Universal Negro Improvement Association in 2025. There's no way, Because people don't even use Negro anymore. So what are you talking about? Right, foundational Moorish Americans. How about say that and try to get some reparations instead of FBA? They get way further if they say Foundational Moorish Americans than foundational black Americans, guarantee you. But do they have enough guts to try? And they clearly they don't.

Speaker 1: 58:48

Right, Right. On that note, brother. Thank you for coming out this evening I appreciate you. I want to continue this conversation on the factions because this is this could do some real good in the community, especially if other people come into the conversation and chime in.

Speaker 2: 59:08

A quick note too on that. With regard to the factions, we're not saying against anybody or anything like that. We're just putting out the info that we've researched and the people make a decision on what they want to do with this info that they have. Now. Either they're going to stick with the faction thing and we're going to stay separated, or they're going to come to their senses and realize that these people, if they haven't brought it together yet for us to be unified, they probably don't want unity. Let's, let's go in and figure out our own stuff.

Speaker 1: 59:43

Well said. On that note, see y'all next week. Peace, thank you.