The Fractured Legacy: How Power Struggles Divided the Moorish Science Temple

What happens when a movement splinters after losing its founder? In this raw, unflinching episode, we dive deep into the century-old power struggle that fractured Noble Drew Ali's Moorish Science Temple of America following his suspicious death in 1929.

Brother Kujo joins hosts Mikey Fever and Ron Brown to present compelling historical evidence about the contentious leadership battle between C. Kirkman Bey and Mealy El. Using rare photographs, court documents, and letters from the Muqarrabin files, Kujo builds a case that Kirkman Bay may have strategically positioned himself for leadership despite evidence suggesting Millie El was the legitimate successor.

The conversation examines specific violations of Noble Drew Ali's teachings, including Kirkman Bay's use of a marked fez with "Sultan" inscribed on it—directly contradicting the prophet's oral instructions. We explore how court battles ensued between factions, with documents indicating courts actually ruled in Mealy El's favor, though Kirkman Bay's faction continued as though this ruling never happened.

The episode concludes with thoughtful proposals for healing this division, from democratic elections to public debates, while acknowledging the difficult reality that ego and attachment to titles present major obstacles to Moorish unity. This conversation isn't about attacking any particular group but rather seeking truth and a path forward that honors Noble Drew Ali's original vision of unification.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

what's going on? What's going on, it's your people on. It's your people's.

Speaker 2: 0:26

What the hell it's all right, girl, You're good bro.

Speaker 1: 0:29

Yo, what's going on.

Speaker 2: 0:30

It's the brother Mikey Fever and Ron Brown NYP. Talk Show with Brother Kujo. Listen we work hard on a daily basis in our personal lives, and we come here to give you guys a show. So forgive us Word, forgive us. Yo Kujo, what lives? And we come here to give you guys a show. So forgive us, forgive us, forgive us. What's up with the music, bro? I heard it, that video you had.

Speaker 3: 0:48

it's tough bro bars Kujo got bars, bro Kujo got bars oh, you took in that thing I sent you that's the one we're talking about yeah, the one I think y'all got mask on.

Speaker 2: 1:03

Whatever I'm like, yo yeah yeah, yeah, uplift the beat.

Speaker 1: 1:09

But, kujo, you do so much. How do you do that? Plus work and all of that, it seems like you're as busy as we are, or probably even more.

Speaker 3: 1:19

Yo, it's just, I don't have anything else. You know what I mean. So go hard or go home. You know that's what you know. We come from that era. Leave it on the court, right? You know what I mean. Leave it on the court. You know Blood, sweat and tears.

Speaker 2: 1:34

You got bars, Kujo, I'm not going to lie bro.

Speaker 3: 1:40

They all got bars. I'm like, yo, they, you get those when you check those ones, the past ones that I sent you on, yeah, yeah, when you check those ones, you'll hear some stuff on that when we're on the Black Power Wave, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:55

Yeah, but you know, if I could box to your song, your shit is fire, your shit is fire like one. One day I put up, um, I put a one of your songs up on the tv and I was boxing, I just, I, it just kept, it had me going. Yeah, you got that. You had the great, you got the great energy. You, you, you, um. Also, you pick beats correctly and all that, like, right, you know what you're doing with the music. Um, I would ask you about your musical background but right now, that's not what this is about, um, but I would like to know, like, like, have you done any music in the like? Maybe you grew up playing an instrument or something like that, or maybe it was.

Speaker 3: 2:35

It was all just um, you know listening to, listening to hip-hop and, and you know, falling in, just like, you know the DJ fell in the portal and you know the graph man, the artist who turned the graph man, fell in the portal. You know what I mean. It's just one of those things that, and I think it's, you know it's a generational thing, you know, because I'm a 70s, so you know the soul and the disco and all that stuff is all in there too, you know, and music is just. You know, music is where it's at.

Speaker 3: 3:14

You know what I mean. You can't go wrong without music, whether it's a stream, you know whether it's, you know, wind through the leaves, music is everywhere. You can't even escape the so um and then, once um, once I got onto the marsh paradigm, I realized there was nothing really out there. There was no more. No more music like that. There was probably, I mean in 08, there was probably two, maybe two artists, three artists or something like that. I know Chicron Chicron, near Chicago. He was one. Oh, chicron is nice. Yeah, chicron is the truth, you know. And there was a couple other that were part of the Moorish realm, marsh realm, that I was like, yeah, okay, yeah, I do. We got, we got lots of room to create some stuff. You know what I mean. So you know, once we go, in.

Speaker 2: 4:13

That's cut you off, was it? She'd rather do with the braids?

Speaker 1: 4:16

no, no, no, he's always he's always has a fez on, he always has a feather.

Speaker 2: 4:20

yeah, what's my old rook and do they used to rap like that I thought he was.

Speaker 1: 4:23

I would say out of the Moors. The only people that I think that is really dope like that is Kujo and Sheik Ron. I never really heard. Now, no disrespect to nobody. I heard my man, a Ben Rom. Yeah, I heard him, rom he's. He had. He had like one dope song that I really liked, but I didn't hear enough of his material. But Ben rhymes too, one of the brothers that is basically a loyal supporter to us. We really appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 4:54

Shout out to Ben, y'all got to look out. Coming soon your way is an NYP mixtape.

Speaker 1: 5:01

Oh man, I'm watching you throw it. Why you put it out?

Speaker 2: 5:05

there, it's like watch the throne. You know, if you know, if they don't have their bars up man, oh my god, it's like the unit 03 02.

Speaker 1: 5:19

Yeah word NYP mixtape. We got a lot of stuff coming down the pipeline, um, um, just like I said, like you know not to make excuses or or put any damper on our efforts, but uh, we just busy, you know, we busy outside of nyp, so that's what. That's why everything is taking so long to come out. But, um, anyway, let's go into it, let's talk. You know, before I long to come out, but anyway, let's go into it, let's talk. You know, before I wanted to come on here and talk about Kanye and the hooded thing and everything like that, because that is popular right now.

Speaker 1: 5:56

However, I think, that being that, I'm curious. I'm really curious to hear what other people have to say about C, kirkman Bay, millie Hill and all the different factions to keep it in that same lane, in that same sellout, exposing the sellout, kind of thing, and I just want to let the Moors know all over the world. I'm not using this platform to attack any group or sect or nothing. All we're trying to do is just expose the truth and if anyone disagrees, then all you got to do is make a comment below or send us an email or give us a call and we can talk about it. And, um, you know, and if you want to reach out to kujo, kujo has his, his platform. Kujo is easy to reach, you know. If you want to ask him something, you know himself, then you could do that. But, uh, this platform, like I said before, this is for the people. We're not trying to block people from speaking, their mind speaking their truth and presenting the facts.

Speaker 1: 7:12

so what, with no further ado, kujo, let's, let's talk about um c kirkman bay, because I saw you had a video up there in regards to c kirk Bay and you know, I want to, I want to, I want you to expound on your knowledge about C Kirkman Bay and your, your thoughts on C Kirkman Bay and that faction, so to speak, of Moors. I'm sure this is not a personal shot at any of the Moors in that faction. However, you do have, you know, uh, some facts to present, right?

Speaker 3: 7:51

well again what once um. Once you have the background of the um, the succession after noble drew ali um, you have to start using your own, your own common sense. You know, because we're talking about 100 years ago, so you don't have access to everything, but certain things you know. One-on-one equals two. You know what I mean. There's a booklet called Oral Statements and Hadiths of Noble Juwali and this is supposed to be all these people who are around Nobujewali that took quotes of what he said or situations that happened and they compiled it in this booklet called Oral Statements. Right, I'm trying to pull it up right now, it's all good. One of the oral statements in there was Nobujewali told the Moors not to mark their fezzes. So when you check all the after Noble Juali people, kurtman Bay was one of the ones that had to mark fezz on. So if Juali said don't mark your Fezz, and then this guy's popping up with a Mark Fezz and he's the authority of the Marsh movement, da-da-da, I'm looking at him funny Because Drew Ali said don't mark your Fezz. So how is he justified in marking the Fezz, and not only marking the Fezz but be braggadocious with it and pictures with it and all that stuff? Obviously these people either knew that, um, no one's gonna do anything, no one's gonna say anything, so they could do whatever they want. Um, obviously they knew that since nobu Juali is out the way, there's going to be no challenge. You know, nobody's going to really be able to tell them anything like that, because you know it's not like Kurtman Bey was a nobody in the Moorish movement. You know, he had reputation. He was, you know, translator for Nobu Juali. If there's any international meetings or arrangements or anything like that, kurtman Bey was always there because he had, you know, some multiple language thing going on, you know. So he was around. It's not like he wasn't around Nobu Juali or whatever he was around. It's not like he wasn't around Noble Juali or whatever he was around. He was one of the people in the forefront with Noble Juali.

Speaker 3: 10:59

There's been probably five or six more who would address these little things, but nothing in real detail. You know what I mean. They would, you know, bring up the Melia letters and, you know, check the convention pictures. You know, like, look at the different convention pictures throughout the years, you know. And also with the Muqarrabin files, there was a lot of things in there relative to, you know later on in the movement.

Speaker 3: 11:45

So we're looking at 70s, 80s, now different court documents, morris taking Morris to court, and all types of madness because they said Islam or they used the Circle 7 or the name Morris Science Temple or whatever, and it becomes evident that that, oh, all these things are happening because there's no, there's no challenge. You know, because the only real, the only real challenge challenger is nobu juwali, and if he's not around, then who's really gonna say something to these people? You know who's gonna say something and who's who's gonna prove it. How's it gonna be proven? You know, going back to that thing with the hundred year thing that ron keeps talking about. You know who's going to say something and who's who's going to prove it. How's it going to be proven.

Speaker 3: 12:25

You know, going back to that thing with the hundred year thing that Ron keeps talking about. You know this stuff was back then. Why are we dealing with this stuff now? Or whatever they, they, they get to that place where, you know, when you start pulling up the evidence, you know which is why, on the Facebook now, starting to put all the stuff up there, you know the evidence, which is why, on the Facebook now, it's starting to put all the stuff up there, put all the letters up there and let the people say what's up or what they feel or whatever. The case is Some people never seen in their life, even people who are part of those different factions. It never registered to them Hold on a second.

Speaker 3: 13:02

Yeah, why does Kirkman Bay have a marked feather?

Speaker 1: 13:06

When you say he have a marked feather. Now when you say he has a marked fez, what do you mean, like what's on the fez, because I've never seen a picture.

Speaker 3: 13:15

So one of the main pictures is him wearing a fez that says Sultan on it. So it's marked. So he's trying to.

Speaker 1: 13:58

I never saw that picture. Where is that?

Speaker 2: 14:02

I think Noble Drew Ali this is my perspective probably didn't want them to mark their fez because he wanted to be distinguished from the Shriners, basically the Moors right. That's what he's trying to do you know?

Speaker 3: 14:14

because the Moors right that's what he's trying to do.

Speaker 2: 14:15

Yeah, got you.

Speaker 3: 14:16

You know, because you know the whole point of the Moorish movement is not to cause confusion, right, you know. So if you have these Moors now who they're supposed to be Moorish American, and all that stuff, and then they're walking around Mark Fezzes, then you know people are going to be looking at it kind of funny around mark fez's. Then you know people are going to be looking at it kind of kind of funny, right, you know um. You saw um. You saw elijah muhammad with, with his mark fez, yeah, the crescent and the moon. You know, with with the crescent and the moon on it. You know, going back to the same thing, if he is, if he was with nobu joali, he definitely knows, don't mark your fez and all that you know. I'm just looking for this picture. Oh yeah, here it is um, so it's not um.

Speaker 1: 15:10

There you're seeing this oh, that picture, no, that. No, that's Billy Hill, right? No, yeah, this is Kirkman Bay, this is Kirkman. Okay, I'm bugging out. So yeah, I remember that picture.

Speaker 3: 15:23

So there's that one, and then there's this one. This one's from the convention, from their convention 1937. So this is way after Noble Drew Ali right, and now you know he's with it. Now you know what I mean. Ain't nobody telling him anything. He's the man.

Speaker 2: 15:47

Right? Is that a Garveyite next to him or a cop?

Speaker 3: 15:53

No, it's whatever branch of you know, whether it's Mufti or whatever, but you know he's, he's some, he's somebody, he's front row, so he's, he's somebody, you know.

Speaker 1: 16:10

Wow, yes, okay. So, mark Fez, so can you show and prove that Noble Jali the prophet said that Moors don't mark your Fez's.

Speaker 3: 16:20

Well, all I can say is that it's in the. So this is the oral statements right here, oral statements and prophecies of Prophet Noble Juali, and it's in here Now. All these are numbered. All these are numbered. I don't know which number. It is offhand, but this is where it came out of, with him marking or not marking the fez. So there's all these different oral statements by Noble Juwali. You know that.

Speaker 1: 17:14

I don't mean to cut you now with the oral statements. These oral statements are given by people who were members of the temple at that time. So my thing is would, if just hypothetically speaking, if speaking, if a Moor wants to come, remember Noah Jolly is dead at this point right. So what if someone wants to say, moors? The prophet said Moors, don't mark your affairs, because they saw other people going into, maybe Masonic lodges and they didn't want that to happen. So is this exactly what Noah J Ali has said? It's questionable, I would say.

Speaker 3: 18:00

Yeah, I mean, it's not some five paragraphs or nothing like that, it's a line. You know what I mean. Somebody heard the thing and they said yo, we got to document this, that he said this. Now, the fact that they documented it, you know, and there's about 200 of those no-transcript were mentioned. Some of those came true, then you know what I mean. Again, you're looking at it. If the prophecies came true, then he must have been a prophet for real. Got you, Got you.

Speaker 1: 18:51

So now, right, so now don't mark your fez. This is one thing that you find suspect. The prophet said don't mark the fez. Millie Eels fez, I mean um c kirkman bay's fez, is marked. Yeah, okay, so that's one thing um.

Speaker 3: 19:09

There was a letter by um. There was a letter by millie ill where he was explaining that the only supreme grand advisor and moderator is Nobu Juali. And that's in letter form. Yeah, I saw that.

Speaker 1: 19:28

I think you posted that right.

Speaker 3: 19:29

Yeah, and that's from Emilio himself.

Speaker 3: 19:33

So if there's this documentation and again, going back again to you know, the other one is the Moorish literature that has the letters from Meliel in it that there is but one supreme grand advisor in the more science temple of America, that being noble Jua Ali, and anyone else attempting to be from now on, is assuming authority of himself and is liable to the penalties of the law.

Speaker 3: 20:17

And of course, to the penalties of the law and of course, mili'il, they get him out the way. So now, the last man standing now, who's really going to tell these people something now? Now, there's definitely nobody to tell them something, and the language that was used when Nobujuali transitioned was that because of the people's docility, because they lost their profit, these people were able to pull this stuff on the people, because people really love Nobu Juali for real, and his death was so abrupt that people just lost their sense of direction. I mean no different than anybody else who lose somebody close to them and it messed them up or whatever. Right, you know what I mean. But this is en masse, because Noble Juali really was a prophet to some people.

Speaker 3: 21:25

You know, modern europeans included you know, I've heard that before I never heard that one, because he was, he was, he was a universal prophet and and and his in his information. Especially when you look at the timeline of when he was, you know, when his stuff reached its peak, which was 28, 29, right before he transitioned, you know, there was the stock market crash and all that that people say that historically in the Reconstruction, they tell you that it happened in 1933. It was really 1929. And then that happened in 1929 because of Juali going to the Pan-American Conference in 1928. Oh wow.

Speaker 2: 22:17

That was before the UN was formed right.

Speaker 3: 22:20

That's before the UN. Yeah, un was League of Nations at that time. League of Nations wow, that was before the UN was formed. Right, that's before the UN. Yeah, un was League of Nations at that time. League of Nations, yeah, got you Okay Wow.

Speaker 3: 22:30

So when we look at these little, these things, these historical things, that's happening, you know, stock market crash and then when you check it, they keep bringing up 33 and the new deal and all that stuff and they go from there forward because if they go to 1929 stock market crash, then they're gonna have to talk about well, what I thought you said, it was 33. What happened in 29 to make this thing happen? And this was drew ali going to the pan-american conference um, what's his name, talked about it in his book. Um, peter moon, peter moon, uh, montauk, book of the dead. Okay, he talked about. He talked about that, that whole thing. And and you know, geneva conference meeting and and people calling in their loans from US, because that's how they went bankrupt. Everybody they owed wanted their stuff.

Speaker 1: 23:28

Now, Got you. Now I want to ask so, besides C Kirkman's Fez being marked, can you give me some other things? That but oh, and what you just mentioned as far as Supreme Grand Advisor, is that right there, written by Millie Hill? That right there is definitely to me. Is him speaking from the grave? Like that hit me. When I saw that, I said to me is him speaking from the grave? Like that hit me. When I saw that, I said whoa, something's not right here. So it's obvious that there was a rift between or I could be wrong, there was a rift between Millie Eel and C Kirkman Bay. Now, is that what was going on?

Speaker 3: 24:22

Let's just read some excerpts from the Muqarrabin files. Just with regard to all that, by the end of 1929, a number of members had been sent to prison. The struggle over leadership seemingly came to an end. However, it was only the beginning of a number of court trials to follow. Sister Mary Drew Ali tried to hold the movement together by writing a number of letters calling for the unity and assistance of the faithful Moors. In one of these letters she wrote our Grand Sheik is in the lion's den jail and the demons are everywhere trying to tear down the movement. Instead of uniting the Moors, these letters prepared the ground for a number of plots to overthrow and take control of the movement. Shortly after Melia's release from prison, one of these plots came to manifest.

Speaker 3: 25:26

The members of subordinate temples 3, 4, 7, 9, 15, and 18 had developed a plot to take control of the movement and appoint Kirtman Bay as the Supreme Leader. A number of decrees, petitions and affidavits began to flood the court. On February 13, 1931, j Jones Bay filed a petition against Grand Chic Emilio. The petition was followed by another filed on February 25, 1932 by Kirtman Bay and one jointly by S Lovett Bay and T Crumby Bay in 1933. Each of these petitions called for the removal of Grand Chic Mili-El and appointment of Kirtman Bay as Supreme Leader.

Speaker 3: 26:18

In an effort to maintain control, miele L had several of these petitions and injunctions vacated. The injunction filed by S Lovett Bay and T Crumby Bay was vacated on November 22, 1933. Nevertheless, it was this injunction that cased the irreparable damage given Kirtman Bay time to reorganize the upper hand. And then going back to Meliel when he made this statement I'm just looking for this letter when he made this statement. I'm just looking for this letter when he had the letter where he was making reference to. The courts already made a decision and these people are acting like the court didn't make a decision. They're playing it off as if the court didn't rule in favor of mealy l being being the true successor wow whoa this is.

Speaker 1: 27:33

This is super deep, um, wow, uh, okay, uh, before we continue, I just want to say this Wow, ok. Before we continue, I just want to say this Now I know Brother Tahaka Bay is on his mission to kind of expose this and he's going to go into greater detail, I think in Detroit or something like that. He's. He's got a lecture, he's doing a lecture on it and you know, I commend and I'm not knocking anyone and what they want to do.

Speaker 1: 28:05

Um, I think that if, if it was possible I don't know how it's possible but if the moors could kind of get past this right here, like because it, because it happened so long ago and obviously it's, it's a, it was an issue between two men and a struggle in power, and years later it's still here and those who follow the different sects are carrying out that same issue Years later, when we have like real, real, real serious issues now, especially with the internet, ai created, uh, and the world is possibly going to go. It seems like it's going toward world war three almost. Um, so I think that we have like bigger fish to fry, but we can still build on it. But I'm just wanting to put that out there.

Speaker 3: 29:02

Again, that's not a misrepresenting statement. That's what it is. But the reason why the coming together isn't happening is because of people not just saying, okay, well, no Juali, and that's it. Why do we need Supreme Grand, whoever's, and, and all them? Why don't we just say nobu juali is the head right, everybody else, everybody else, who who has some type of leadership, whatever they go back to their membership role roll, no jollies there, Wait, hold on.

Speaker 1: 29:43

You're saying people in position like Grant and moderator and all these different positions, they go back to membership.

Speaker 3: 29:53

you're saying yeah, just be regular members, Just be a member and do the work that the members are supposed to be doing.

Speaker 2: 30:03

I said that last show, Ron. People do not want to give up those titles.

Speaker 3: 30:06

They're not giving up those titles.

Speaker 2: 30:10

You get followers and listeners and people watching you. It boosts the ego, but then you're not producing anything. It's just quantity, no quality.

Speaker 3: 30:23

That's part of the issue that you know, if we can say, if we can say the Moorish movement right now is like how the NOI looks right. See, when you look, when you hear NOI, and then you look at them and then you see them doing stuff or whatever, right. Or we say Moorish unity and then you look out and you see 10 Moors, but then you look at the Hebrews and you see 5 million of them going, marching somewhere or whatever like that. So if these people over the 100 years would have did something with this, for us to say, oh, all right, we have more hospital because of these people. Oh, we have more, you know, whatever grocery store because of these people. Oh, we have more, All right, fine, yeah, you actually did something with this.

Speaker 3: 31:20

So what are we going to say? You know what I mean. But the fact that they lost everything that we had you know what I mean probably sold it to the highest bidder and all that type of stuff. You know, they really have no leg to stand on when people who are students start pressing them People who are really, you know into knowing the truth about our nationality and birthrights.

Speaker 1: 31:49

You know now let me ask you this Now, let's say you say everyone give up their titles, right, but they worked hard for those titles, though they had to go through the depth chamber they hold. They held those titles. I'm going to just give you my experience, like being a part of the C Kirkman Bay faction, so to speak. Right, like those mores, honestly, are dedicated and it's their lives. Yeah, yeah, that's what they do day in, day out, like you know and I'm giving respect to Brother Sharif and his temple what those brothers and those sisters in that temple, man, they are straight, they're like a horse with blinders, that's all they see. And they earn their titles, they earn their position. And so for them to now strip their titles down and be lay members, if you will, you know, it's just, I don't think that's going to happen. So there should be something else, another remedy to fix this though.

Speaker 3: 33:07

No, what it would be? It would be elections. Okay, what do you mean? Everybody, everybody, who who's claiming that they, they can, they can, you know? Um, lead the moors then. Then there's a ballot and everybody with a nationality card, doesn't matter what it looks like, you get to vote, and you better come out and vote too was there always a structure like that in the temple?

Speaker 3: 33:37

Yeah, I mean it's supposed to be like that. But again, with the factions, you know what I mean. It's not really like that because of the splits. So let's say we have five factions, right, and then the five factions have a thousand members each. Let's say, right, so we've got 5,000 members, right, All those members that are saying that guy is the leader or whatever.

Speaker 3: 34:15

If they wipe the slate clean and put all those names in a hat, what do you think is going to happen? All those same people are going to vote for the guy who was their boy, right, right. We're saying forget who your boy was. Who's qualified for it? Who's qualified? Who has the work? You know what I mean? They. What have they done when we can say, okay, well, what have they done in the community? What have they done in the, the state, the province? What have they done? Okay? And and something qualifies them to have their name in the hat they're not just naming the hat just because they've been in the movement for 80 years. So if you've been in the movement for 80 years and you haven't done anything, what are we talking to you for?

Speaker 1: 35:04

yeah, I think if you've been in the movement for 80 years and you have done nothing, you should get up out of that seat yeah, it's time to get out of the seat.

Speaker 3: 35:11

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 35:14

Easy as that, but again you know to get to that place.

Speaker 3: 35:16

You know what I mean. Like easy, easy as that, like no politics, but again, you know, to get to that place, like Brother Michael was saying, a lot of people are going to have to give up their ego, which they're not going to give up their ego, which is why we're having these conversations right now, because if they gave up their ego, they would have saw that, oh wow, this is bigger than me, this is bigger than this building that I have right here. This is really about unifying all of us from the mores and the splits and then outside of that into the community at large, who they're mores too. They're just unconscious that that they're mores what you said was so true.

Speaker 2: 35:59

We had. They had yet to see a hospital or a center built by the mores. That's so real what you said a supermarket just one, just one thing, you know.

Speaker 3: 36:09

I mean just, and these had the, these people had the the power to do this if they, they can, you know, as we read into the thing, they can do petitions and injunctions and all that stuff. Go to court against Morris and all that stuff. Then they can go to the mayor's office and get a building Right. You know what?

Speaker 1: 36:28

you know what I don't understand? You know what I don't? I don't understand, I don't know the ins and outs of this temple. I'm not sure. I'm just making a statement. If I'm wrong, correct me please. Now, what I don't understand is Temple 21 in Brooklyn is right across the street from the projects. I've never seen a picture and when I've gone there, I've never seen them interact with people from that project. To me. For me, let's say, if I were to run a temple, if I were to run a temple, I would be in that projects every. Every time I'm over there, yeah, giving out literature, talking to people in the middle of the street, whatever the case may be going around in that area. And do you know? There's a project in Brooklyn called Nobu Juali, in the plaza Brownsville In.

Speaker 1: 37:26

Brownsville. That project should be full of moors.

Speaker 2: 37:32

Drop a bomb, Ron. That's a fact. Instead, it's drug infested.

Speaker 3: 37:38

Yeah, but again, look at the psychology. What does that do now to everybody looking at Novojuali from the outside If the Novojuali projects is drug infested or hookers, and how are they going to look at Novojuali and the Morse thing Not messed up? Or are they going to be like Juali and the Morris thing Not messed up?

Speaker 3: 37:58

Or are they going to be like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, right, and then that's the same thing why they don't go in the hood? Because what is there to show? You know what I mean? Like we came into this in 08, right, we're long from where Noble Juali was. Right, we're 2008. When we came in in 2008, there was nothing. We're only still here with a temple, and all that because we trust Noble Juali and what he brought. Right, I mean, we're doing this on the strength of we know what Noble Juali brought is legit, but you know, with nothing to show, you go to the hood with the people who they need to see some stuff. You know what I mean? They're not taking you serious if you can't show them something. That's just where our people are at now the master consumers.

Speaker 3: 38:52

You know you got to show them something for them to be like, oh, wow, okay, yeah, maybe I'll be involved because you showed me something that's still not going to inspire them, right, you know to go running to this thing, you know I mean, but it would give them a little bit to say if the more is out of hospital to say yeah, we got a hospital. You know. You know that that'll bring people in. You know what I mean. We could do a deli.

Speaker 1: 39:19

The Moorish deli.

Speaker 3: 39:22

Whatever it is, laundromat, whatever, whatever it is. You know what I mean. But you know the climate, society and whatever else is going on. You know we're playing catch up.

Speaker 2: 39:36

Cavanaugh University also bro. All the temples around America have one headquarters. Everybody meet up there.

Speaker 3: 39:43

Yeah, and again. These are the things that these individuals who had this leadership whatever should have been doing for the past hundred years.

Speaker 1: 39:54

Right, but do you think that you got to remember this too? Like a lot of the elders Didn't have the internet. See, we're coming into this During the internet age, where everything is quick, fast and, you know, knowledge is easily accessible, networking is easily accessible and things like that. So I think it's really up to our generation you know, you know people who are like you know, tech savvy and things like that to push the movement forward. Now, now I know more is more is we'll go okay, join the temple, and it's not what your temple could do for you, it's what you can do for the temple. So why I'm posing this question to you? Why not join? You know, why not have the Moors join a faction, whether Millie or C Kirkman Bay? Add on and help push those factions forward for the greater good of all Moors factions forward for the greater good of all Moors.

Speaker 3: 40:59

Well, like we said, when we go to certain, when we look at certain factions and they're saying, for example, they're saying we'll sing hymns, for example, right, just replace Jesus with Noble Jew Ali, and then we're going to go sing hymns for a half hour before we do the temple meeting or whatever the case is right, you know, you're not really going to get people like that. That's more a deterrent than anything else Because, like Todd Street Bay calls it, all it is is reverse church. It's church with fezzes and turbans on. It's church with fesses and turbans on.

Speaker 1: 41:35

Wait. But what if those hymns are a means to raise the vibration in the temple though, because you know music does?

Speaker 3: 41:45

that Music does that. But we can look at the church to see that that stuff doesn't raise no vibration of nothing. It probably more lulls people into giving up their finance, getting doors locked on them and all that stuff. Give up their Close the doors.

Speaker 3: 42:08

And then they're sitting there. Instead of beating these ushers' asses Right, you know what I mean. It probably puts them more under a spell than it does liberate them. Okay, because we have the example of the church. They've been singing hymns forever and only pastor man is benefiting from singing hymns. Jesus only saves him. Everybody else their son got murdered, their aunt died of something. Their great grandma gave all this finance to the church. Pastor man doesn't want to do the funeral services and all that. You know people losing their property to the church because, you know, their grandma signed their stuff over. Instead of giving it to the family, they gave it to the pastor man who's robbing people. So you know what I mean. We have the church as an example. That's not really the motive, really, right, you know?

Speaker 3: 43:15

And again, with you know, because we're doing catch up now, we're trying to find all these things. What could we do? Oh, we could start a laundromat. We could start a, but then it's only two more. That's doing it like brother. Brother Kenick L wanted to do.

Speaker 3: 43:37

The Morris Credit Union Years ago Went around to all the whoever's. You know we're going to do this credit union. You know we need a certain amount of People to be involved with it. I'm just going to go to all the Different temples and All the different leadership and then the leadership would tell their membership and then the membership plus the leaders would sign on to to this credit union so we could have something for the moors. And then nothing happened because all these people weren't down with it, because what temple is he from? He can't be doing that. Nobu juali didn't say more, should have a credit union, all types of crazy stuff these people are talking about. And then and then then nothing happens. And then people are complaining about where's the marsh, whatever. Well, amore was trying to do something, but what happened? The same leadership who were talking about oh yeah, let's unify with them, or whatever shut that stuff down because he wasn't in their temple or he was part of a faction of the and we're not down with them. So we're not down with your idea of a credit union.

Speaker 3: 44:46

Where he was in the office with these people, he had everything, went and did all the work, did all the connections, had all the meetings and all that stuff. People said you want a credit union. All we need is whatever 500 signatures or something like that, which should be nothing. All these temples put their membership names up and we got 500 signatures. Tomorrow, there's at least 500 more. There's no way. There's not 500 more. Oh, yeah, sure, easy, there's 500 more. He couldn't even get 500 signatures. I can't remember Don't quote me on the number, but there was a certain amount of numbers that he had to get and he wasn't able to get the numbers because these people weren't getting out the seat because they wanted to be on the board for it and he's like no, you can't be on the board for it, the board's going to be neutral people. Why are you going to have you on there? No, well then, we don't want nothing to do with this or whatever you know.

Speaker 3: 45:42

And stuff fell through Because of Morris, not because some Europeans, whatever Europeans were working with him to make the Morris have a credit union. And the stuff fell through because of Morris, which goes back again to this thing with. You know, once they're not, once they're not with, once they're not saying Noble, juwali is the prophet and we don't care about anybody else and their title. Watch those people, because they probably have some type of agenda to keep this stuff buried. It's where I'm looking at at this point, because there's no way that there can't be more unity by now. I mean, come on, come on.

Speaker 2: 46:30

The great thing about it. They say nationality. We don't operate as black Black means death but you operate as a nigga, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: 46:38

Like a cold negro man. Worse than a negro because at least the gangs come together at least for violence and death and destruction.

Speaker 3: 46:52

You know, every gang knows that. Okay, there's going to be guns and drugs and everybody agrees. There's not even no debate on it. Right, you know what I mean. Where we get it from and all that stuff is, everybody's going to have the supplier, whatever, and there's no issues. And then it comes with Mars, and Mars can't even all agree on. You know where should be the headquarters? Right, there should be one. Why wouldn't there be one? Why would there be seven grand major or whatever?

Speaker 3: 47:28

It doesn't even make sense, it's a waste of resources, man. Waste of time.

Speaker 1: 47:32

But, again, it's the agenda, but you know what I think.

Speaker 2: 47:36

That was the plan.

Speaker 1: 47:38

I'm going to put this out there and I'm not trying to start no trouble. I'm just saying I'm just saying All the more popular Moors out there, and we can name all of them. I don't want to name them because I don't want to cause no confusion, but we already know who are the more popular Moors out there. Yeah, now, if all of you I'm going to include you into it Now, if all of y'all came together and had a discussion and agreed to help lead the nation under some kind of treaty between each other, you know, I think that you know, I think that you know, we could get somewhere.

Speaker 1: 48:19

You know what I mean. I think I think the moors who have the spotlight, you know, um, you know, maybe moors, you know, even even some of the moors they don't like each other who are in the spotlight I don't know. Whatever the case may maybe squash that little issue come together and say all right, as a united front, let's come together, unite and let's push the movement together forward, regardless of what faction you're a part of. Millennial, whatever, yeah, whatever, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:52

Yeah, what do you think about?

Speaker 3: 48:54

that it's a beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you think about that? It's a beautiful? No, it's not something that hasn't been tried already. Just like with Brother Kenick L, with the credit union In 2000s. Morris Morris had that meeting. They're not going to talk about it, that they had that meeting, you know what I mean, where all the heads of the most popular whatever came together, had the meeting. The most popular whatever came together, had the meeting and these people couldn't even unify at the meeting, playing the same game with the authority thing and all that. That fame and nobility is a hell of a drug. Nobu Juali knew exactly what he was talking about when he said they're jealous of my fame and nobility and they want to be in the seat of power. They want to be in the seat. Now they're in the seat and they're not getting off, and then when they transition, they're going to pass it down to their boy, who they trained right, who's going to come and do the same BS that the guy who just transitioned was doing.

Speaker 1: 49:51

Right, and it's like a never-ending cycle.

Speaker 3: 49:53

And it's so that cycle continues on, which is why sorry to cut you and it's that cycle, that cycle continues on, which is why, sorry to cut you, which is why those same popular Moors, majority of them, are outside of the temple, right, because they already see the BS that's going on and they're like you know what? We're just going to take this to the people and the people are going to do whatever they want when they get this info, because these people obviously aren't doing anything with it. So we might as well do something with it, since they're not doing anything with it. You know what I mean? Cause, cause all that meeting stuff and all that stuff already happened. I already went down and not these people aren't about that.

Speaker 2: 50:33

So it's really on the people now, that sounds familiar, ron, that story where he says with those leaving the temple and going out there and giving to the people directly, didn't Allah do that? Went straight to the babies, for sure, that's the same thing.

Speaker 3: 50:49

Same thing with that faction and stuff. Why people left that. Why El-Hajj left, khalid left, freaking. All his sons left. You know what I mean? Father Allah left. All these people were part of the thing. It's the same thing. Left came into this faction thing and then of the ones that left, then everybody started following their little whatever. But what's the foundation of all that? Noble Druali and the splintering of the Moors. And then when all those people left, then whoever they left, that became something and they splintered into whatever. Because you know, once you're not dealing with truth, the stuff's going to fall apart, which is that's basic. That's not. That's kindergarten.

Speaker 1: 51:32

It becomes cult-like. Now let's say if those from the Emilio faction or not even a part of the Emilio faction, those who know about the discrepancy between Emilio and C Kirkman Bay, and let's say if the Emilio faction or those who will lean more to the Emilio being the successor, let's say if, if that is the truth, right, if that is the truth, how is that going to harm the C Kirkman Bay faction? How is that going to interfere with the C Kirkman Bay faction? Because the C Kirkman Bay faction seems to fight against that. You know that, and Emilio fights back. So let's say the truth is that Emilio was, emilio was the successor and we, and that was known worldwide. Now, and you know a new day, now that's worldwide. How does that change things for the C Kirkman Bay?

Speaker 3: 52:33

faction, because now everybody knows that those people are a fraud and they've been a fraud for since 1929.

Speaker 1: 52:43

You know what it is, Kujo, it's the way you say things, right. So it's like you said those people are frauds. So people would maybe take that personally and look at it like how am I a fraud? I'm not a fraud. But what he's saying is is that see Kirkman Bay himself in in the way he took over, that is a fraud, and anybody else that follows behind that, and they're accomplice.

Speaker 3: 53:10

They might not be directly a fraud, but they're guilty by association. Gotcha, because, if it, because if it came out that, okay, yeah, melio is the is the successor Now, now all those people have to. They have pulled on their sign. They got to pull down all their pictures and stuff with Kirtman Bay, pull on their websites and all that stuff. They got to tell all these members that, hey, you know what? We've been playing a game for the past hundred years the actual successors, melio. We're going back to that and then people are going to make their decision on. Well, okay, are we going to stay with them, or now are we going to turn to these same renegades who these people were telling us don't be them? Now we're them because we're saying forget right now uh, this would be?

Speaker 1: 54:02

why can't we, why can't this just be handled in court and said and done?

Speaker 3: 54:09

well, well, according to me, leal it was and and it was it was supposed to be done. And these people, and it was it was supposed to be done, and these people continued on with, with their how they want to do stuff.

Speaker 1: 54:27

I think there needs to be either a debate about it or it should be handled in court, like the debate should be, like like a huge event where a lot of people are going to see it, a huge event where a lot of people are going to see it pay-per-view, if you want to do it that way or however you want to do it. But there should be a debate about this so we can clear the air and then move forward after this. So let's say you see, kirkman Bayside, they don't want to take down the pitchers, they want to keep everything exactly the way it is and the function the way it is. If they do, I don't see anything wrong with that, because that's just their organization and the way they want to carry. You carry, carry on, you know, carry things about, you know, so you know. Let's say, if they don't want, they say OK, millie is the successor, so what, we're still going to move the way we move. How do you see a problem?

Speaker 3: 55:17

with that yeah, then then we're right. We're right where we're where we are, then we're not moving.

Speaker 1: 55:25

So it's going to be just just exactly what it is Right and it's going to be me personally Me personally I don't think this matter is going to be resolved unless something big happens, like a huge debate between two people or more that really know this in detail. It could break down the facts on, you know, screen and presentation, et cetera, etc. And you know it should be recorded paper wise, typed video, whatever get it around. But I don't know if this is going to ever be resolved. And if it's not going to ever be resolved, then I feel like we just all go our own ways it's a disservice to the people that you're trying to save.

Speaker 2: 56:15

Yeah, but remember it.

Speaker 3: 56:15

It's a disservice to the people that you're trying to save, yeah, but remember, it's been a disservice since Nobu Juali was assassinated. It's been a disservice Because his murder should have brought them together. Him getting murdered should have been a wake-up call to them that you know what, we should be unified back then, you know, I mean automatically. It shouldn't even, it shouldn't even been a split and factions and all that stuff. That shouldn shouldn't even happen. Everybody should have been, because what was Nobujuali's call? Nobujuali's call that this is the uniting of Asia, this is the uniting of the more science temple of America. Right, he is the uniting. So so if he's the uniting, then why don't they just put him up front so that there's unity?

Speaker 1: 57:20

Yeah, that's a fact.

Speaker 3: 57:21

This is not some hard stuff for me, because I'm a realist. You know what I mean. Like I'm not, I don't need metaphysics and whatever like that. One and one is two, that's just what it is. Whatever you're dealing with. You got an issue with somebody. You go talk to them and solve the issue. You know what I mean? Stuff doesn't have to come to blows and all that stuff. The only reason it goes there is because somebody's in their feelings or whatever.

Speaker 1: 57:47

Right right.

Speaker 3: 57:48

It doesn't have to go there, it doesn't have to be a shootout and whatever like that. You'll come together and figure out their stuff and get the egos out of the way and stuff will be solved tomorrow, but they don't want to get the egos out of the way, because if they get the egos out of the way, then they're going to have to humble themselves to the truth, and that's one of our principles and they don't even want that. How they honor Noble Juali when they don't even want the principles. They don't want peace. If they wanted peace, there wouldn't be no factions or whatever like that.

Speaker 1: 58:24

I would say love first. You know what I'm saying, of course, of course, freedom, and then justice is the last resort. So now, this was dope man. I want to. I want to keep talking about this because this seems to be a hot topic right now, and me personally. I really wish the Moors can figure this out. You know what I mean. I really wish the Moors can can fix this issue, can fix this issue.

Speaker 1: 59:02

But for me, I believe it's going to be something that's going to continuously go on until somebody in the youth says enough is enough and I don't want to say it but they also have enough finance and strong voice and influence to galvanize people against disunity.

Speaker 2: 59:27

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 59:27

You know what I mean. Yep, yep. And again, you know this is not, you know, for confusion's sake, or you know, because they're going to pull. Oh, he's violating Act 3 and 4. He's causing confusion, slandering his brother. You know, slander. We're just putting out the Melia letters that he called out all these people. We're just putting out the Noble Juali letters where he called out all these people who are around today playing around like they have nothing to do with his assassination and murder, just like people want to play like they have nothing to do with El Hajar's murder.

Speaker 1: 1:00:05

Now we're going to come back and do a part two in this next week. And, kujali, I just want you to bring all receipts in terms of dealing with this, miliil and Kirkman Bay. You to bring all receipts in terms of dealing with this, mille and Kirkman Bay.

Speaker 3: 1:00:22

Not just them, it's Mille Kirkman Bay Givens.

Speaker 2: 1:00:26

You know, like the reincarnated process.

Speaker 3: 1:00:29

All this stuff is. It's a gumbo, everything's up in it. You got the potatoes in it, you got the pig feet in it, you got freaking, everything in it. Okay, everything's in it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:47

So let's keep going on with this and build on this. This will be posted Saturday. We're going to start putting Cujo on the live, though that's a fact. We're going to start putting Cujo on the live, though that's a fact.

Speaker 1: 1:00:58

We're going to start putting Cujo on the live because we have to. You know what I mean, but we wanted to try to pre-record this out and kind of spread the content out throughout the week. But we need Cujo on the live. But we're back next week with Cujo. We're going to go deep into this. We're back next week with Kujo. We're going to go deep into this the factions, the separation, et cetera and try to come up with some kind of resolve. You know, at least we have the conversation and if anyone wants to reach out to us, you know the email. The email is the same as the brand name NYPtalkshow at gmailcom. And we're on Instagram, we're on Facebook and everything like that. Reach out to us If you have a question or you want to say whatever you got to say your piece, whatever grievances you have, we're open platform. If you disagree, simply say so and we can have a discussion. On that note, we are out of here. See y'all next week. Peace.