From the streets of Chicago to Moorish Science - Shaw EL

The journey from street organization to spiritual awakening reveals powerful truths about identity, purpose, and community transformation. Brother CJ Shaw EL takes us through his remarkable path from Chicago's South Side to becoming a leading voice in Moorish American advocacy and civic engagement.

Growing up as a Blackstone member in Chicago's structured street environment, Brother Shaw EL life took an unexpected turn during seven years of incarceration. What began as a legal strategy to reduce his sentence evolved into a profound spiritual quest, leading him through Christianity's limitations and into the revelatory teachings of the Moorish Science Temple. His description of attempting to read the Quran only to find it "locked" to his understanding, compared to the immediate resonance with Moorish teachings, captures the powerful moment many experience when discovering their ancestral truth.

Rather than abandoning his street connections upon release, Brother Shaw EL recognized the philosophical connections between Blackstone principles and Moorish teachings. He built bridges between these worlds, demonstrating how spiritual awakening can enhance rather than negate previous identities. This approach culminated in creating the Alliance for Moorish American Progress—an innovative organization structured to unify fractured Moorish groups through focused committee work on civic education, cultural heritage, economics, and community development.

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• 10:56 (Cont.) From the streets of Chicago to Moorish Science - Shaw EL

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:20

What's going on? Everybody out there is Ron Brown LMT, the People's Fitness Professional. Hold on. We got to put those applause. We got to sound a little stronger than that man. We got the war brother CJ Sha'el with us today.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Slav slav peace, family peace, peace.

Speaker 1: 0:38

Peace, peace, peace. Let's go into it. So, first of all, the brother just told me he has bars. I haven't heard him yet, but it's all good. We got to figure that out. We got to hear what's going on there. We got to hear what's going on. So a more brother, cj Shaw L, I want you to break down to the people who you are, where you're from your journey and we're going to end off at Morris Science.

Speaker 2: 1:04

All right. Well, again, first of all, I appreciate you for having me, you know, and I appreciate your audience for tuning in and creating a space to be had on Right Right. Of course I must, before we really begin. I must acknowledge that Allah is due all praise. You know, and all things that I am and all things that I strive to achieve or have achieved or experienced is through the grace and will of Allah alone, and that I extend high honors to Prophet Noah for helping me to understand that, amongst other things. Yes, sir, again, as you mentioned, my name is Brother CJ Shaw-Eel. I am, as we have listed here, a faithful member of the Moorish Knight Temple of America's, temple no 1. I'm from Chicago, illinois, born and raised. I've been in Chicago my entire life, with the exception of the few years I spent away in the Department of Corrections. The seven years I spent away in the Department of Corrections, that's actually where I met the Prophet Noah Jirali.

Speaker 2: 2:05

I actually met the Prophet Noah Jirali I had known of Jirali, or at least had heard the name, but I knew nothing about the Prophet until I was down in the Crips and was fully given the actual information. You know, I was down in the Crips and was fully given the actual information. But, as I mentioned, I'm born and raised in Chicago. I moved to Indiana for a couple of years. I want to leave that out. My people from Indiana. You know what I mean. I went to high school out there for at least I tried to go to high school out there for a year. So I don't want to ever act like I don't have ties to that community as well. I'm brothers and sisters out there, ties to that community as well, them brothers and sisters out there, good people.

Speaker 2: 2:49

But I've always felt that our people deserved more. You know, for lack of a better phrase, I can recall sincerely in elementary school when I had been informed that we had never had a so-called Black president, like they were saying, like Bill Clinton was the closest we would have to one. At the time it was like 90s, early 90s. And I'm just questioning, like you know why, you know what you mean. Like you know, he's not at the time identified as black. You know he's not black. Why y'all calling him a black president? You know, and it was rationalized the way, like it was just something that our people could not achieve. You know, and in my mind right there now, I was like, oh, I'll do that, type stuff. You know what I mean and you know again, just as I continue to grow, just different occurrences in my life shine light on the differences of experience between our people and other communities. You know, having lived in different suburbs or, like I said, I lived in Indiana for about a year and a half, and just the experience, you know what I mean, was extremely different.

Speaker 2: 3:53

And I learned a lot in those times and as I grew into manhood, in the Department of Corrections, also experiencing those differences, I learned to apply the rule of law. I learned to appreciate procedure and policy. I learned to appreciate structure, a whole lot because even though oftentimes, especially in those environments, individuals who or let's just be plain, the correctional staff may sometimes overstep, may oftentimes overstep, you know their responsibilities or their boundaries, but they do so because most people don't understand the policies and procedures to keep them in line, you know, to remind them that they are also at work, you know and by the grace of Allah, I was able to learn that there, when I was gone I was they was trying to lose me and trying to give me like over 30, like over 30 years. They were trying to lose me, lose me.

Speaker 2: 4:59

I had several, or at least I had a handful, of armed robberies that called it a spree I was being charged with but there was no gun in evidence. But in Illinois at the time there is, or was a mandatory, I think, 15 or 20 year gun, 20 year gun enhancement. I think it was a time and they was trying to basically tell me that, even though it's my first time being arrested, they're going to give me the minimum, which was six years on an armed robbery but it carried a mandatory gun enhancement of 20 years and I had four.

Speaker 2: 5:26

So you know, yeah, and so it inspired me to get in the law library. You know, it was either accept what they said or go check it out for myself. You know, and that was one of my first, like, real memorable lessons of man knows not by being told.

Speaker 2: 5:43

You know, man knows nothing by being told. If one would know he got to be what he know. If one would know he was beauty though. So yeah, I spent a lot of time on the law library, found out that that was unconstitutional, came back, fought that, beat that. You know what I mean. Had to try down my cases and things, throw out what they couldn't convict me of and got convicted of lesser charges. You know what I mean, oh, that's what's up.

Speaker 2: 6:03

By the grace of Allah, it only got. It ended up doing seven. And in that seven years, though, you know again experience. You know times and climbs where individuals who are in responsibility of preserving, helping to preserve my rights ultimately, you know, you oftentimes think that a person who goes to prison ain't got no rights. You know what I'm saying. They haven't broke the law. Ain times think that a person who goes to prison ain't got no rights. You know they, they haven't broke the law, ain't no laws for them, type stuff. But nah, that's, that's not the case. You know, the accused have rights and the convicted have rights, you know, um, and so for me, my solace was in spirituality long before I went to prison.

Speaker 2: 6:40

You know, um, I used to wake my damn girlfriend up on sunday mornings and let her know hey, look, I'm on my way down here to go see Pastor John and he feel me I'm leaving out of 10 because he get it popping at 1030. If you ain't in a car, you're going to get left. You know what I mean. And that was my real thing. Like, yeah, I was out doing one, two things throughout the streets, you know, throughout the week, and then on Sundays I went to go get a word. You know I enjoy praise and worship. You know what I mean. Like that's.

Speaker 1: 7:04

Wow, oh. So let's, let's, let's rewind a little bit. So you said Clinton right, and you had some questions back then. So that would mean you were around like in your late thirties, 40. Yeah, I was 39.

Speaker 2: 7:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:19

There we go, there we go.

Speaker 1: 7:20

There we go Okay there we go, there we go, yeah, by the grace, yeah, 39 by grace of allah, before the inshallah this year. Oh, that's what's up, man, that's what's up. So now, growing up in chicago, now in new york, we have our own perception of what's going on in chicago. In fact, chicago, chicago's drill scene, I would say has caused chaos, chaos, oh my god. So you already know and you know, the drill scene in chicago, uh, came about around maybe 2012, right, 2010, 2012, I would say more like 10-ish.

Speaker 1: 8:03

Yeah, I think 10-ish 2010, 2012, around there and, I think, chief.

Speaker 2: 8:08

Yeah, Keith was the ones who kind of really made it popular Exactly.

Speaker 2: 8:12

To be completely honest, though, I was in prison when the drill scene started. Mm-hmm, I saw it kind of take off from in there, from behind the wall Right, we saw a lot of young brothers coming down. You know what I'm saying. Like from that environment, you know what I mean. Like we kind of saw it sparking up from the inside, I guess, like you said, like beforehand, like it's some clicks that started up in the county jail in like 03, 04, 05, 06. People who are watching may know Savage Life, you know what I mean. Like those guys and a lot of them individuals, I think are the people who kind of encouraged for the people on the outside to start acting the way that they acted. Okay, yeah, because on the inside in the county them Savage Life Boys was.

Speaker 2: 9:05

They was carrying their name and yeah, and not long after, that is when that whole music started being rapping about gangbanging in the music. You know we would in the earlier 90s. You would hear the music, people would rap. You know their different cliques and their gangs and whatnot, but you didn't hear a lot of gang know, gang banging for real, like like actual beef, and naming people and stuff like that. You know a lot of that back in the day. You started hearing it a lot around that time. Um, a really good friend of mine too, I want to say also. I would be uh bogus if I didn't say really good friend and friend and brother of mine, brother heron tracks ill. Uh, he was a member of our temple. He's one of the co-founders of the Drill Sound as well, one of the original producers. He still produces to this day. He's produced for all those guys. He's produced for all of them. Everybody that does Chicago rap music knows bro Heron Traxiel Really well actually.

Speaker 1: 10:04

Now, as far as from what I know from just watching social media, right, you know what I know about chicago before the drill scene from what I hear is that it had more structure yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 10:49

Um, there's. There's still structure, though that's what a lot of people get that misconstrued, like there's still structure, though A lot of people get that misconstrued like there's not structure anymore and that's not the case whatsoever. There are pockets where there are less structure than there used to be, but there's still structure. Like you can still go in certain neighborhoods and it's still the same gangs. That was there growing. Well, I don't want to call brothers gangs, because we you know away from that. You know um organizations, you know what I mean for whatever they're organized for right now, but those brothers are still there.

Speaker 2: 11:28

You know I got. You know I did a um song way back when, when I was still doing secular music, and the vast majority of the people I had in my video are what will be considered ops quote, unquote. You know they're oppositions from the organization that I grew up a part of, but I visited they hoods. In my video, you know I stopped through they hoods and whatnot and that was back in like 2014.

Speaker 1: 11:56

Wait. So you visit their hoods, hop out the whip and all that.

Speaker 2: 11:59

Yeah, I hopped out, shook up what's up, fool kicked it. Okay yeah, and there's all they guys out there and their structure of guys is out there. You know what I mean? Yeah, Because I'm Blackstone to the backbone, Like it's been, like it's not a secret.

Speaker 1: 12:14

Oh okay, I see, I see I didn't want to, I didn't even want to ask you anything like that Got you, but you, you put it out there. So cool, cool, cool, all right, all right. So, stone, stone, all right. So in New York, so as, oh, new York is a hip hop place, you know, it's not about gangs and things like that. It's not a gang state and all of that. I hear that, I hear you and I understand what people mean about all of that. However, new York always had gangs, so I don't know Gangs and crews.

Speaker 2: 12:49

Wasn't it a movie like Gangs of New York? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:51

Yeah, like the Warriors, right, right, right, right, and this was like real stuff. That was happening. You get what I'm saying. Yeah, I know, like Jolly Stompers, they had a crew, a gang called the Jolly Stompers. They had Savage Nomads. They had a bunch of gangs way back in the days. Then the gangs morphed later on and became a Black Spades and things like that and then became Zulu Nation and then became the Bloods after that. So it was like it's always had a history, right and right now. In New York, from what I know, if anything change and you know in New York, just get in the comments and just tear me up, please, but in New York blood rule, right, that's like it's a blood state. California is pretty much a crip state. Chicago, from what I know, is more of a GD state, right, or GD city.

Speaker 1: 13:53

I wouldn't say that, but I'm saying as far as numbers are concerned.

Speaker 2: 13:57

Numbers, I would say that there are definitely more GDs. Right, then there are probably any other organized group.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Right, so that's, that's what I mean. As far as numbers, just to clarify everybody in those States, la and numbers and more Cps in new york. In numbers there are more bloods.

Speaker 2: 14:20

So now, so now no it's more than to be clear. You know, um, but, like I said, what I mentioned in that video I was talking about, you know, all the hoods I visited in that video was all GD hoods, you know, oh, and as I'm still super close with a whole bunch of GDs to this day, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 14:41

Like it's hard. It's hard not to like if you're from New York, if you're from New York city, if you're from New York, you know what. If you're from New York city, I'm going to include Yonkers, I'm going to include Yonkers and Mount Vernon is blooded up. I don't know what's going on in Buffalo, rochester, syracuse, I don't know. I just know about where I've traveled. It's blooded up in those areas. Usually, if you're from the city, you're going to know a blood. You got to know a blood. Everybody from the city who're from the city, you're going to know a blood. You got to know a blood. Everybody from the city who's from the hood, really they know a blood. So it's like six degrees of separation. You know that whole thing. So that means you would have to know GDs. So how does that work? Being that.

Speaker 2: 15:33

So, but let me be clear too, because that's not a common thing for real um, you have people who have family that might be from the other side or, like you said, for whatever reason. You know they have somebody that they got closer from the other side, um it, but it's usually a reason behind it. To be honest with you, if you grew up in our generation, um, after I want to say maybe after, like you know, 20, 20-ish, you know like 20, 20, 16-ish um, people about my age kind of started in mass being less concerned. You know to me well, maybe likes earlier than that, being less concerned for organizations.

Speaker 2: 16:23

But when we grew up, though, it was a lot more segregated, so much so me and one of my best friends laugh about it fairly often me and one of my best friends, my best friend, he's GD and we met through one of my best friends, my best friend, he's GD and we met through one of the BDs.

Speaker 2: 16:39

But when me and him, when we met, we wasn't messing with each other at all just because of our affiliation you know what I mean, but we used to get money together and that's how we ended up. That's how our mutual BD, homie, connected us to because we was getting money. He was getting money. I said, yo, you need to meet. So it went like that and that's how we ended up getting cool and that's how a lot of people from their hood ended up getting cool with me you know what I mean. And so I spent time out there hanging out with them, getting money with them, stuff like that. So when I went to prison, they was the ones who was writing me, they was the ones who was going to check on my mom, stuff like that. Oh, wow, yeah. So when I came home, they were stealing my guys, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 17:24

So that's how, when I came home in that video, you see me going back to them hoods.

Speaker 1: 17:31

Okay, that's what's up. So are you like the only person that not you, just the only person, but is it like a selected few that can do that? Or this is like a new thing, as you said, like 2016?

Speaker 2: 17:43

Like again, it's more, it's individual based. You know, okay, I wouldn't say it's a select few like I'm special or nothing like that. It's just a trajectory of my life. You know, I had reasons to build camaraderie with people that at once upon a time we would have been into it. You know, right, got you. Oh, you know, I was just saying to build on that note got you now, um, chicago, right in my mind.

Speaker 1: 18:17

Some people say it's kind of like New York, like with the trains and stuff like that. And so what is it like, right, like New York is like a melting pot, right, everybody's like right next to each other. Is it like when you see? But back in the days is it like on site, like you know what in the days. Is it like on site, like you know what I mean With the ops.

Speaker 2: 18:39

It used to be. It used to be. I mean, I'm way too old for that stuff now. You know what I mean. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, of course I don't be, I don't. I'm so far gone from that, right, but growing up it was that, growing up, especially colors mattered back in the day. Whichever way you wore, your hat mattered back in the day. Certain types of hats mattered, certain types of jackets different sports teams, all that stuff mattered in Chicago and it doesn't matter now, not as much, nowhere near as much.

Speaker 2: 19:18

I don't think it matters anymore. I don't think it matters anymore, not like it used to. Nah, and then, too, the neighborhoods aren't really the same. You have a few neighborhoods that are still structured, but a lot of the neighborhoods have been broken up. You know, really the same Like again, you have a few neighborhoods that are still structured, but a lot of the neighborhoods have been broken up, you know. But you've still got a few areas that are like super known for being the organization that they are, and you don't be over there with your hat broke off the wrong way. They still will get on there with you walking down the street, no question, questions asked. That's disrespectful. Don't be on that in their stores and in their gas stations. You feel me saying?

Speaker 2: 20:03

like that's they will get on them. That's disrespectful. It's definitely still neighborhoods where it's like that gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 1: 20:12

So now moving around in chicago. You know the, the, the. If you let social media tell it, you can't go nowhere in chicago without a pistol so no, that's not the case.

Speaker 2: 20:27

That's not the case at all. Um, the guys you know my city don't don't probably get out on me for that, because you know everybody wants to be. You know we all, as men, have to keep our up Right. But no, it ain't that for real. It's not that at all. You don't have to keep a slam on you. If you into it, if you've done something and you've got some people looking for you, yes, keep it on you because you, you got some debt on your back right, come get that right.

Speaker 2: 21:00

If you ain't got, if you're not into it, like again, I said, bro, I'm 40 years old man, I'm so far removed from that stuff. You know what I mean. I got a lot of and I got a lot of love and a lot of hoods, like I've. I've, you know, helped. You know. I mean like I've been on this side of life for a long time now. You know what I mean, right, um, I've done a lot to uplift you know what I mean for for like 20 years now, by grace of allah, um, we're not 20. Like, like, going on, I'll be a member like 18 years next year, um, but so, yeah, like you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 21:33

Like me, I go to the gas station, leave my doors unlocked, car running. He's in the car. You know what I mean. Um, nobody in the sunroof open. Wow, a lot of my protect, a lot of my protecting my god and my salvation. Now I'm not saying that so y'all can make me no target right, try to school off the guy who said he was all right now start locking your car but you know sincerely though.

Speaker 2: 22:00

Nah, my city is a beautiful place, it's a lovely city Like, people here are very, very welcoming, very, very helpful. You know what I mean. You know you. You have to be situationally aware. You know what I mean. That's looking like they. You know, up to no good quote, unquote. Don't approach that person for no help. You know what I mean, Right. But to be completely honest with you, if you see one of the shorties you know walking down the street with his shiesty on, if you let your window down, respectfully, yo, young bro, where is such and such? He going to let you know oh, that's over here, we're at the band. It's not going oh, you ain't from over here to rob you. No, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 1: 22:47

So now check this out. In New York City we got Five Burrows right, yeah, and all Five Burrows is known for something. No disrespect to Staten Island. All I know about Staten Island is Wu-Tang and Italians maybe. So I went to staten island probably twice y'all. So part of my staten island people I love y'all. Sorry, uh, but you're wild on the island, don't they want these projects?

Speaker 1: 23:15

the woods from yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what they say, but I don't know, because I never. Really it's hard, it's hard to get over it, like like I'm from Harlem, right. So in the place I'm from in Harlem, you walk over the bridge. The Bronx is right there. So I never, if I wanted to go somewhere, I go either Manhattan or I go to the Bronx. I don't need to go to Staten Island. That's the last place I want to go. You know what I'm saying? You got to catch a boat. I think it was a lot.

Speaker 2: 23:45

Yeah, it's a lot.

Speaker 1: 23:47

It's a lot. But now in New York City you got. Brooklyn is known, Everybody knows Brooklyn. You can definitely get robbed in Brooklyn, that's for sure. It's a fact.

Speaker 1: 24:04

You know what I'm saying Depending on where you are in Brooklyn, it could go down. Everybody knows. Now people say on social media the Bronx is dirty and all kind of stuff. I beg to differ. Y'all don't really know nothing about the Bronx. The Bronx is huge. You have its good spots and you have its ratchet spots. The ratchet spots it can go down. Harlem, it can go down. Harlem is no more for making money. They say Manhattan keeps on making it, Brooklyn keeps on taking it. Manhattan keeps on making it, Brooklyn keeps on taking it. What's the other one? Bronx keeps creating and Queens keeps on faking it. That's what they, that's what. That's what. That's tough. That's what KRS-One said, right. So the Bronx is known for hip hop, Harlem is known for that's right, he wasn't rocking with the Brits, right, right.

Speaker 1: 24:54

Harlem is known for, you know, getting money, getting fly. Brooklyn is known for the robberies and all of that type of stuff. So in chicago, the robbery and, like the great extreme, violence too. So now in chicago, what? How's the demographic, how's the size broken up?

Speaker 2: 25:12

uh, it's, it's kind of similar, kind of uh, the west side. To me the west side would be like how y'all display harlem. Um, the West Side is more flashy. They real flashy, kind of loud people. You know what I mean. Real, like you know, boisterous, like talkative, you know type of people. And like out West, like you, have more intermixing of different organizations. Out South is more where it's like where we used to be like structured gang for real Structured organizations, for real Neighborhoods, for real. Out West is more block based, out South is hoods, you know what I mean. Out South would be more like Brooklyn, so to speak, or at least from that aspect of where it's more rugged at. You know, don't get me wrong, they'll poke you out west too. You know they'll definitely poke you out west, you know.

Speaker 1: 26:12

So poking means what? Because in New York poking means stab you.

Speaker 2: 26:16

Robbed. To get poked is to get robbed, okay, yeah, in Chicago at least, and I shouldn't be doing that. We can't be doing that. If they don't know, they don't know. Okay, we can't teach nobody that. Don't know that part. You know gotcha, oh, but yeah, uh, yeah, you know. You know the south side is. The south side is bigger and a little more structured and and yeah, it's, it's more known for where it kind of go down at. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 26:47

West Side, I tell you. You know, like I said, everybody want to maintain they tough. But West Side, I tell you, like, they party out West. You know they're going to party out West. You're going to come out there, have a good time, fee-fee, all night on the block. You know what I like. It's one of those type of deals, our south, the gangbang still.

Speaker 2: 27:03

So you know, and and then two, you had a lot, of, a lot more low income areas out south, and so you know what that produces. You know what I mean. Destitution produces that doggy dog mentality. You know what I mean. I don't have, so I have to get it, and apparently you have have it, so let me get some. You know what I mean, right, and so that's the culture that it produces, or that it has produced.

Speaker 2: 27:31

But you know, chicago is big, so you got your pockets. Like you got some of the worst parts of Chicago across a busy street from the best parts, like for real. For real, like Hyde Park, up the street from where Barack, president Obama, used to live. Like you cross Cottage Grove and it's it's rocking right there, like it's you know saying, like you know, and it's been like that forever, you know saying it's like they're all over the city. You got, you know, from, maybe, say, 80th to 83rd is decent, but from 79th to 75th is a little rough and the further you go north, from 75th to 71st, it's rougher, from 71st to 63rd it's rougher. You know what I mean. And once you cross 87th it's already rough again. Like you know what I mean. So but yeah, you know what I'm saying, like the north side is is, uh, they, they do a little game bringing up north, but it's it's not like.

Speaker 2: 28:35

It's not like the south no, no, no, it's, it's more, um, it was more affluent up there. That's why uh, yeah, you have more. You have more europeans up there. That's why you had more Europeans up there. And so then you had a lot of Spanish-speaking people up there, so you had some of their organizations up there and then just a handful of our people's organizations, like the GDs had a couple sets up there and the Greens and Stones had some sets snakes has what's up, but it was like real small one or two pockets of our people. The rest is mostly a few pockets of their, you know, european people and spanish-speaking people. Then the rest is just more affluent people, the lgbt community, to be honest with you, um, that's where that, that's what's known for up north.

Speaker 1: 29:18

Yeah, they got oh man. You might get yourself in trouble for that man. No, for real.

Speaker 2: 29:21

They got a neighborhood, oh man you might get yourself in trouble for that man. No, for real. They got a neighborhood up there. It's not a joke, I'm not. Oh oh, oh, no, they got a neighborhood up there. It's called Boys Town. Oh wow, Okay, bro, the flags are on their street signs and the streets are painted with rainbows. Like they got a store. Like stores, oh, like stores. Like oh wow, like different playing, play on names type of you know. I'm saying like when you go through there, like gay mark type stuff instead of k-mark.

Speaker 1: 29:48

Oh, like your own joke.

Speaker 2: 29:49

Yeah, for real. Damn. Like it's like a little, it's a little neighborhood, like it's not far from like rigby ville, which is where the cub stadium is. You know I'm saying, and like other little, you know all the other up north stuff, you see, got you now, now, to take it now, now.

Speaker 1: 30:07

Now, we kind of like took the audience into like a new york, chicago perspective. How did you get from stone? Okay, you already said you, you went to prison and that's how you, you know, got involved with the, you know, with the prophet. Before that, you were stoned, you went to prison. How did you was it through an OG in the prison, to say, yo, this is the prophet, this is. And then what was your? The first literature you got?

Speaker 2: 30:40

So nah, really what it well kind of One in general was when I was in Division 6, we was in two together Minimum. When I first got there in the county I was in minimum for like two and a half months or something like that. I didn't stay in minimum for too long because they gave me some positions and whatnot, some authority, blah, blah, blah, and then when stuff got went wrong, people told on me so I got put out the division type stuff. But then one of the somewhere it was back then I was 20 and bro was like in his forties you know what I'm saying Like fifties, maybe maybe in his fifties. And so you know what I'm saying. Like 50s, maybe maybe in his 50s.

Speaker 2: 31:24

Um, and so you know what I'm saying. He oh, I see you be studying. What the damn you know you ever seen this type of stuff? You know, um, because like so I. So let me back up a little bit. Um, the reason why I had the little responsibility that I had when I had it when, when I first got there, was because I knew the lessons that I was supposed to know. You know, I didn't know that all of those lessons, or at least 90% of those lessons came from the Morissette of America.

Speaker 1: 31:53

Wait, hold on, let's pause. I know what you're saying. Hopefully the audience is going to catch what you're saying. You said 90% of those lessons come from the temple.

Speaker 2: 32:08

Yes, at that time, at that time, okay, at that time, 90% of those lessons, if not more, and I can stand on that. And I stand on that because some of what I'm telling you I've also relayed to the end, and per instruction of the end, it's okay. After some time I was over headquarters to make sure everything went the way it was supposed to go, and the way things were supposed to go was, according to the War Science Center of America. That was a letter that I had to read to the entire community. Oh wow, from up top, from all the way up top, and everyone knows that If you anybody, or if you tied to anybody, they was either in the room or they heard about it.

Speaker 2: 33:04

Okay, and so, again to go back when I was a shorty, I didn't know, I thought that the lessons were in code because I could decode it, you know, like I could decode Grand Chic, Assistant Grand Chic. I could decode it, you know Right. And so I just thought it was a code. I didn't know that it was lock, stock and barrel from the entity that it refers to. I thought the more sensitive America was code. I thought that was a code name.

Speaker 1: 33:49

Until about until I was about 21. Now, how did you discover that? Did you discover it from the information that was given to you?

Speaker 2: 33:57

So nah. So again, like I said, I had a little juice in the minimum, you know what I mean. And when I got over to the medium, one of the elders who was like from where I'm, like next to where I'm from, or whatever, and he, I see you be studying, you know, have you ever seen these lessons? You got the furtherance of it, you know. And I'm like, oh no, I ain't never seen that. And so he gave me the questionnaire the Korean questions for more Americans, korean questions for more children, or affectionately known as the one-on-ones. So I knew certain numbers, because we would use the numbers for various purposes and covert conversation, you know what I mean. And so I knew those and I knew that I knew how to do that. You know what I mean, but I didn't know that it came from like I didn't know the whole set, like I had never perused the entire set. And he, like, not, I come from this, you know so. So he put me all the way until I got his dog cool. So, like, my first little little introduction for real was the questionnaire, and then then I had, you know, not really gotten any more instruction.

Speaker 2: 35:09

So the thing is too, I have to back up a bit. I mentioned before that I've always been spiritually inclined and I was going to church even when I was out in the streets. So when I was in the county I was still in church. And about my spiritual journey and all that, you feel me so much so to where I began to feel conflicted because, as a stone, like, most of all of our stuff is Islamic, all of our stuff is Islamic, and in jail, we, you know caucus, so to speak with you know caucus, so to speak, with you know vice lords and everybody else that's under the fan and we're all Islamic. So when we caucus quote unquote we open in our meeting up with al-Fatiha, wait a minute, and I pray. I don't think I'm saying too much, but I mean, you know, okay, okay, this you know.

Speaker 1: 36:04

Okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 36:05

This is in jail.

Speaker 1: 36:06

Okay.

Speaker 2: 36:07

The unifying prayer for the fembo is al-fatihah. So here I am, a Christian, having to say al-fatihah to open up these meetings with brothers, because I got some jibs, quote, unquote, you know what.

Speaker 2: 36:24

I'm saying here, I am a Christian, got to pray over the dinner table for everybody in Arabic Because I got jibs, quote, unquote. And so I had to tell the brothers, like look, I'll be honest with y'all, you know what I'm saying. Like I'm conflicted. You feel me Like I'm conflicted, you feel me Like I'm a Christian. I don't know Allah. Like I don't know this Allah we talking about. Like I get the lessons, I got all of that, but I'm not. I don't know that. I don't even understand the translation. Yeah, I know what it says. It's translated as but I, you know, and I'm conflicted. And as a Blackstone, you don't have to be Muslim. Even though the lessons are mostly all Islamic, there's no compulsion in Islam. That stood on. You don't have to be Muslim. And so I stood on that, you know. I said, well, I don't have to be Muslim. And so, on the strength of that, and since I'm telling y'all I'm uncomfortable making these prayers and things, I'm going to teach y'all, you know what you need to know, and I'll stand on security, and you know y'all open up, and then, once it's opened up, I'll come on in and we can, you know, take advantage. So that was so, that was that, and so After a while, after a while being in that position of having responsibility when stuff will go wrong and, like I said, they told me the first time I got sent to the hole for something I had nothing to do with took place again. So now I'm like, alright, man, y'all not gonna keep getting me jammed up. I'm 20 years old, fighting all this smoke, trying to come home and I'm steady going to the hole for stuff that I ain't got nothing to do with. You know, another deck. Go up. They coming to get you because you got you know what I'm saying. You got the building for that for them people. You know what I'm saying For your guys. So they blaming you. You know what I'm saying. Again, I'm 20 years old, trying to fight these cases. I'm not going to keep going count, which basically means you're on your own in there. You know what I'm saying. So I jumped off count. So my last year in the county I was off count and so when I got to the joint I stayed off count. When I got to the joint, when I got to penitentiary, I told the brothers down, like you know, I ain't getting off count. You know what I'm saying. I still got another case I'm fighting out of state. I got two more cases at the time when I first touched down, but one of them was out of state. I mean I'm fighting too much drama.

Speaker 2: 38:51

You feel me saying I got to focus on you know what I'm saying trying to come home and at the same time, too, my faith, like I'm not comfortable. You know what I'm saying in my faith, you know what I'm saying, moving in that fashion. I'm always going to be Blackstone, but as far as having to move with the motor school and whatnot, I wasn't with it at the time, and they respected it. You know what I mean. They respected it. The blessing in it, though, for me, was that, while they respected it, my perspectives, you know, for the people was awesome I still walked with the brothers. You know what I'm saying, still communicating, conversing with the brothers, so my perspectives was appreciated. So, even though I wasn't technically on account when stuff would go on, I would be sought for.

Speaker 2: 39:38

Hey, bro, look what's going on.

Speaker 2: 39:39

How do we deal with this?

Speaker 2: 39:40

What you think Type stuff. You know what I'm saying on. How do we deal with this? What you think type stuff. You know what I'm saying, and so, with through through that. Uh, my man, general bo, never forget bros. Uh, he cut into me, man, but why are you off count type stuff. You know, I'll let them know. Well, this is why you know what I'm saying. My faith is this and that and that. You're like all right, bro, I feel you. I feel you I got something might be right up your alley. You know what I'm saying, like I'm hearing what you're saying. You know and how you love the people and you know how you don't know a lot but you love Jesus. You know what I'm saying. All this type of demonstration, I got something that might be right for you, bro. I say up under the door because I was in max joints. We just locked in the cell. He said to jump under the door and you know, by the grace of the law I'm like all right. You know I had already been kind of not kind of a praying for understanding. So I've alluded several times to me being spiritually inclined and being in the church and things and jumping off count in the county from stones. Because of my spirituality. I also separated myself from the church in the county too, though, to be clear, in the counties, where I learned what the church is in the counties where I learned what Christianity is, that Jesus was never a Christian, you know what I mean. Like this is where I really got to delve deeper into the Bible and where I really got to question what I thought was spirituality versus what I had been taught. You know what I mean. And so by the time I left the county I identified as a follower in the teachings of the Christ, but not a member of the church nor Christian Right, because I knew that, you know, christian was a derogatory term given to the followers of Jesus in Antioch. Like I had learned that by that time and so I didn't. For me that felt like disrespect to call yourself a Christian and say you follow him. You know what I mean. Um and so when you get to prison you have to have a certain or in max joints.

Speaker 2: 41:35

At least you got to have your religion on the back of your ID. You can't just go to any religious service in the max joints, you know what I mean. Like you just go to any religious service in the next choice. You know, like you got, you can only go to your religious service. So when you get that, it actually what your vision is. So I had that conversation with them. Like, look, I'm not a Christian but I'm following Jesus Christ. I thought I would only place you gonna hear about some Jesus is in the Christian service. So that's what they put on the back of my D. So, bro, he hit me with the same joint. What's on the back of your ID? You said I some value type stuff. That's what I let him know. Look, it's a Christian, but I ain't no Christian.

Speaker 2: 42:05

I done already worked myself out of that and so by this time. So I went through all that to say like I had spent the last year or so in the county, year and a half or so in county, like studying the sutras, studying the Analects, trying to read the Quran. I say trying to read the quran. I say trying to read the quran because I couldn't. I tried to read quran of muhammad twice while I was in the quran, I was in the county and I didn't understand it.

Speaker 2: 42:30

It was as if the book was locked. Like that's that scripture where it says you'll be handed the book and they won't be able to read it. As if it's locked. You know it was bro. It was as if it was locked. I didn't understand how it was, how it was put together, how it was as if it was locked. I didn't understand how it was put together, how it was organized. I understood nothing about it, like the ayah story, it was beyond me. But I was striving. I was striving to find a spiritual foundation outside of Christianity. And so I had that conversation with bro, like yeah, you know what I'm saying, I've been around the game, but kind of searching he brought, I got something for you.

Speaker 1: 43:05

It's probably right up your alley.

Speaker 2: 43:06

You feel me. He shot me the Quran, so I put that joint in a cell. I'm like you know. I prayed at the time. I'm like man.

Speaker 2: 43:13

You know, god, yahweh Allah, you know, by whatever name is yours, I don't know. It's been at least 2,000 years since at least Jesus came. Possibly that's what it says. You know what I'm saying. Now, how many times have they changed your name since then? A merciful God, a just God, can't fault me for that. Now, the same God, yahweh Allah, whomever, whatever your name is, that been riding with me and holding me down since birth, that protecting me from death all those times, that same God that keeps me going, it's the same God I'm reaching out to. It's the same God that I'm praying to help me to understand.

Speaker 2: 43:51

If this is for me to understand, if this pamphlet is for me to understand, then by all means, uncloud my mind so that I can understand it. Open my eyes so that I can see it. Uncloud my ears so that I can hear it. Soften my heart so that it sows deep into it so that, in due time, I can speak with my mouth the words of God.

Speaker 2: 44:09

You know what I mean, but by all means, if it's not for me, then blind my eyes from it so that I can't see it. Clog my ears so I can't hear it, clog my mind so that I won't understand it, and harden my heart. Let it not sink deep within God, in your boundless power. By all means, take this pamphlet from me, remove me from this cell, block cell house, put me in a different prison. Don't let me drink this cup of filth if this is more murkiness, because I just spent the last several years looking for you and it ain't my fault that I don't know where to find you. But if this is a way to understand you, by all means I pray, let me understand it.

Speaker 2: 44:46

And, bro, when you read the front cover that, joint that's what it is, divinely prepared by the noble prophet juwali, by the guiding of his father, god of law, the great god of the universe, for the purpose right to redeem man from his sinful and fallen stage of humanity back to the highest plane of life, not alone, but with his father, god alone. You open that joint and say know thyself and Allah, bro, that's what I was looking for the whole time. The genealogy of Jesus, that's what I've been looking for the whole time. So I'm like, oh, it's up. You know what I mean. I read page three. It's talking about, you know this, for all those who love Jesus. I'm like, oh, okay, so it ain't. You know what I mean. I'm still cool. You know, yeah, by the grace of Allah man, I studied the Quran.

Speaker 2: 45:33

We was on lockdown too, because they do institutional lockdowns once a year so they can shake the whole joint down. And I got down. I'll never forget. I got down that day after Roman Christmas, december 26th, and they locked us down December 29th because they're going to lock down for the new year, you know, yeah. And so I say that to say I had all that time in my cell to read. You know what I mean. Like we wasn't like, even like I was, was in max. So we only left out for lunch, dinner and yard every other day anyway. But since we was on lockdown, they would bring your lunch and dinner to us. And what, no y'all. So we, I'm in the cell with just me and the quran eating me. The quran and my bible, eat you, feel me. And uh, by the time we came about that joint, I was ready to go to meetings because I already had the divine constitution bylaws on my temple. You know what I mean, like I already knew it from being, you know, part of the organization.

Speaker 1: 46:25

So now, when you got out of prison, where did you go?

Speaker 2: 46:31

So while I was in prison, I ended up meeting the National Grand Chicas' son, the National one of her. Two of her sons actually, by the grace, are, were there. Um, I met both of them actually, but I was. I ended up doing time for real with one of them, the youngest one, my little brother hanif jackson bay. May allah be pleased with all he does and all he's done, um, may allah strengthen him. He's still in the feds right now. Won't be home in about a year or two, about a year, a year and a half, Inshallah.

Speaker 2: 47:04

But when Bro was born, his father was National Grand Sheik and his mother was National Assistant Grand Sheik. He was born the day after the Prophet's birthday. From my understanding, he was trying to have him on the Prophet's birthday, prophet's birthday. From my understanding, I was trying to have my own prophet's birthday. Um, bro was like, was my guide in preparation till she could. Um, he caught me in the joint. I have been gone like four years, like three and a half years, four years. He caught me, you know, down there thinking I was more American than knowing something. You know what I'm saying, um, but wanting to know the truth. You know I had all the sovereign citizen literature, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 47:49

I had all the you know what I'm saying All the, all, the, the, the, the, the UCC stuff and the Washington stuff, and you know what I mean. I was ready, you know. I thought I was him, but I also knew, you know, or at least I also thought, that there was an infiltration and blue light versus white light and all of that demonstration, you know, because it was a lot of blue lights in the joint, when the white lights for real though, you know, and so when I bump into him, he's carrying a white light and so I'm sure where you get that he ain't ready about this, and so you know, he uh was, was uh, very um, selective, I'll say, as at first, when we was talking, you know, I mean, as to if I was sincere or not, you know, but after you know some conversations and things, he respected my sincerity and you know he introduced me to his mom and the rest of the council and things of that nature. The prison we was in had a lot of Walsh Americans in it, a lot, a lot. They were functioning like they were fully functioning on both sides of the joint. It was two different temples that met weekly, like they were. They was fully functioning.

Speaker 2: 49:13

But you know, not everybody's always sincere. You know what I mean, and so you know you don't necessarily want to turn everybody on to your mom. You feel me Right From in here. You still got a little boatload of time to do. You know what I mean, right. So he was selective about that, which I honor. So, anyway, but bro called me though, introduced me to mom now, and the council, you know, got to know me and things, and the council, you know, got to know me and things. They started sending lessons down for me. And so when I say he was my guy, he had to, like, oversee my development and, you know, bear witness back to the council as to what I'm doing in there. You know what I mean. We had to learn certain things and relay certain things from memory that we couldn't relay over the phone, so you had to have another sheet to relay it to mouth to ear. And so he was that person for me to bear witness and say, yeah, he learned it and he gave it to me mouth to ear, or yeah, he came back and unfolded you know what I'm saying mouth to ear type demonstration.

Speaker 2: 50:12

And there was even a time when, after I had already earned my white light, which is basically the condition of being prepared for adaptation in that group of Morris. I was with the German Bay group of Morris. After that period, there was a issue in the joint with the stones. Like we was, they was at war with somebody I can't remember who it was, but ultimately, bro was like yeah, I don't think you should carry the white light anymore because you still have an affiliation to the Stones and if something should happen with them, you gonna go, and if something should happen with you, we gonna go. That means you gonna get us involved in something that really don't got nothing to do with us, type stuff, you know. He didn't understand, though, that the stones foundationally are an organization for the uplifting of fallen humanity, that the stones foundationally have a requirement for spiritual and personal development.

Speaker 2: 51:18

Now what individuals do outside of that is their own thing, by the grace of the law. By that time I was elevated to a position where I was again responsible for things. My responsibility, responsible for things, you know? Um, my responsibility. I like to think that I was, uh, responsible in my responsibility, so to speak, like I didn't encourage your brothers to get involved in stuff that would be detrimental to them.

Speaker 1: 51:54

You know, what.

Speaker 2: 51:54

I mean Right, like I encourage your brothers to spend time on things that was useful to them.

Speaker 2: 51:59

In fact that's one of the ways that I kind of got known when I was in there, because when I went to one of the prisons they sent me to, I got kicked out, said said the joint kicked me out but they promised me that the other prison I was going to had more sons from America. And it didn't when I got there and so I went on. I went on a campaign in there, getting requests from everybody. We did a hunger strike, some more stuff to get the temple open while I was down there, by the grace of Allah, and one of the things that I did was basically I told the brothers if you're not already going to somebody's religious service, send me a request for the more scientific America, or don't be out your cell flagging, like you know, moving in this, in this, in this, in this manner.

Speaker 2: 52:40

You feel me, if you not about some kind of development, you need to be coming here to develop or stay in your cell type stuff. You feel me right? Um, and so again, fast forward back to when I was at little bro. I reminded them then I'm not, you know, somebody, that's just kind of following orders type stuff. You know what I mean. I'm more or less keeping peace around here, you know Right. And the situation took off where on the other side, it was going on. You know what I mean and I made sure that on my side, you know, things was just. You know what I mean, and it was respected and ultimately my white light was given back to me because it was shown and proven, like you know okay situation took off like no it was.

Speaker 2: 53:27

You know it was shown and proven like no it's gonna be. Just, you know what I'm saying. So you know I I developed a little um appreciation there, so I relay that appreciation there, so I relate that because that's always been a part of my um message, so to speak. Um is that as a black stone, it's my perspective. Now, this ain't the perspective of stones. I'm not speaking for stones, I'm not speaking for the cp, I'm not speaking for nobody. You feel me? So don't nobody call me talking about some.

Speaker 2: 53:59

Bro was on there talking about nothing. What I said, I stood on, I stand on and everybody know I can and do that's. That's that, uh, in regard to my perspective, um, it's my perspective that the black stones are like the infantry ground force, the youth movement of the More Science Temple of America. It's my perspective that that's what the Stones are supposed to be, not that that's what More Science Temple of America has adopted them as, not that that's what the Stones have chosen to be. That's my perspective, based on our history as an organization and the laws and customs of the organization. I relayed that information to the founder of the organization and he called me, his brother, and said that's a good perspective. And to teach others to move in that fashion and for a time, that's a good perspective. And to teach others to move in that fashion and for a time, that's what I was doing.

Speaker 1: 55:05

Are you talking about E-Man Malik?

Speaker 2: 55:07

Yes, Okay For a time when I came home. So, again, I'm saying all of this because, when I came home from the joint, the, the motion of America, knew that. My perspective was that the young people that should be in the movement, in the Morse of America are many, many of the stones. If they only knew and understood for real, they would be members of the movement. You know what I mean, and so it's my responsibility as a stone and a sheep to make that apparent, to make that clear to the brothers and sisters that this is the further development of what it means to be Blackstone. You know what I mean? True, and I carried that perspective throughout my time in prison. Once I, you know, jump, you know, got the information, jump back on. And when I came home, so, by the grace of Allah, bro, and it's Allah alone, like, it's truly divine, right. So when I come home from the joint, I'm in school and this little sister and this a bunch of brothers, like whenever this goes live, it's probably gonna be like maybe like six brothers, maybe if they see this, they'll be like oh yeah, remember that because it's a thing. So when I was in the in school, one of the brothers, girlfriend, was like you talk like my boyfriend. Now you talk like my boyfriend enough, because you know we got a lingo, so to speak. You know, um, the moors and the stones carry a similar, similar lingo because of the lessons, you know. I mean, that's why the customers are the same or similar, right and so, at the time too, like I was like anti, like stones who aren't like actually a part of the organization by 2015, 2020, anybody's walking around claiming stuff these days. You know what I'm saying. But if you weren't actually in tune with headquarters, going to meetings, studying lessons, I was anti. And I was like that before I went to prison. You know what I'm saying and I've been. I was like that before I went to prison, you know. So I've been like that, like, if you're not inside it for already gone, that's real, um.

Speaker 2: 57:30

But so I tell sus, I tell her like, yeah, like now your boyfriend and probably a little stone or whatever. I'm a Martian American, you know what I'm saying. And she's nah, nah, they Muslims too. They Muslims too, nah, they probably. You know what I'm saying. Cardi's nah, nah, nah, nah. She's pressing me about it at this point. So, like, a couple days go by where she's pressing me like yo, they want to meet you type stuff, and I'm nah, I'm cool because I'm a she. At this point, no offense, but in my mind at this point ain't nothing Stone can give me. Stone has already elevated me to this particular position of Black Stone. Now, the more Central America has elevated me to this particular position of she could Ain't nothing there unless y'all moving in the times of living for the humanity and from my understanding, y'all not.

Speaker 2: 58:26

That was my misunderstanding. When I came home from the joint there was a collection of stones who I was close with from in the joint that was also out here, the tribe of the truthful Bandu, sadiq shout out, sadiq. That are moving, you know, in an exemplary way, you know a pure way. Um, I connected with them when I was in prison and I'll stay connected with them when I came home. So other songs I want to be trying to rock with because I felt like they wasn't really on the uplifting. Um, but she was pressing me about the fact that her boyfriend and them are really for real. So I'm like, all right, I'll, I mean. So I met him not far from where I was on house arrest deal, so I had to meet not far from out so I met him or whatever.

Speaker 2: 59:03

We chopped it up and I told him then, like, look, you know, I'm already where I'm at, for us ain't nothing you could do for me. You know you're saying you can't like, give me the carrot on the stick, I'm gonna put you on, make you one of these type stuff. You know I'm already that, like I'm already that you feel that, um, and then I'm this also for the more sensitive america, and this is where my focus is like being what I was for the for the most, it wasn't gonna do nothing for me, it won't do nothing for us in humanity, for us in community, because the group of stones that I was a part of, we was all like all of us, was, you know. So it was like we all play in space. You know what I mean, right? Um, but so, uh, after meeting with them and talking with them, and they, you know, telling me that, no, we're serious about liftinglique the Fallen Humanity, the movement, the nation, the headquarters is, you know, has revamped, like I don't know if you've heard, but things are moving back the right way, da-da-da. I'm like, yeah, I heard, but to be honest, I don't believe, and shout out P-Mukmeem man, I'm pleased with all he's done. Uh, he's now standing on smooth the seas. Uh, him, my brother jihad, shout out. Jihad, jihad is still out here.

Speaker 2: 1:00:25

Um, and a couple others was like nah, nah, for real, like it's, it's really that and we're giving you our word, like it's really that. And and whenever you see it's not that, step away from us all and I'm like okay, on the strip, for that I can, I can ride with that. You know what I'm saying, um. And so I went back in the house that same day, called my grand sheikas and told I said hey, listen, these stones that met with me out here, you know what I'm saying. They saying that they moving in the signs of the truthful, like my other collection is moving signs of truthful. I'm gonna give them a shot. She's like all, all right, son, you got the lesson. You told me that's what you was going to do when you came home, so take your profit with you. All right, man?

Speaker 2: 1:01:08

So I find out where is that we're here at court. You know what I'm saying, but by the grace of Allah, I'm trying to figure out how to communicate this property. You know, the German Bay Group is mostly in DC and Baltimore on the East Coast. They used to be in Chicago. They left Chicago some years ago, back in the 70s. Around this time they was preparing to reunite with the Chicago group. The Chicago group they were preparing to unite with was holding meetings in the Stones headquarters. They didn't know that until I found out, until I told them how we found out. Well, because when they say we finna come to Chicago, we think about uniting with this group. Go over there and start a meet with them. You know what I'm saying and you know see how they move it and whatnot. You know. All right, cool, where is it? What's the address? They gave me the address. Um yo, that's the same address as the stone.

Speaker 2: 1:02:06

You hear me, that's the same address as the headquarters, and so I'm like so my work is already done, then the work of getting the stones in the temple to do right it's, it's already done there, with my perspective. You join and so, by the grace of allah, um, I started coming down and meeting and holding means with the moors and um, also holding means with the, with the stones and everything you know, and, uh, just making you know, making sure that the understanding was there. As to our relationship to the information, and, like I said, my relationship with the Morishan to America has always been at least since I joined, has always been a sincere one, like a for real, for real, sincere. You know, like I don't play about it at all with nobody, even the most I ain't got to talk to, the most I ain't got to talk to the stones about the Morishan to America, and I maintain that it is what it is. It do be what it is. This is my salvation. You know what I mean and that's just what that is.

Speaker 2: 1:03:12

So, in that, though, like a year or so later, I ended up going through the chambers and that's when I was given a warrant of authority and charter and all that. I took my warrant of authority back out south in the suburbs where I was paroled, to a house where I sat and I was holding Sunday school meetings and so all the stones that was up under me was coming to my Sunday school meetings, you know what I'm saying Mandatory yeah, that was yeah If you was a stone in the South Suburbs, in any of the South Suburbs of Chicago from 2013,.

Speaker 1: 1:03:54

I don't want to get name-dacing issues, because that might tie up stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:03:57

But yeah, you had to come to Sunday school meetings and we was learning the questionnaire. Yeah, learning your prayer, learning to read the Koran.

Speaker 2: 1:04:10

Straight up Standing on that with iron fists to the point where the imam like it was a good report. Like you know what I'm saying the table and whatnot. It was a good report. Like you know what I'm saying the table and whatnot. It was a good report. You know what I mean. And the imam was like yo, I want to hear from that brother. And it was by request that I started writing him and informing him of what was going on and that we was teaching and whatnot. He said that's a good thing. And he stamped what I was doing and he stamped and told me to. At that time I was elevated again by him to make sure that everything went according to the ways that the Prophet Noah Jalili left it and that letter was read to everyone. That's what I referred to earlier.

Speaker 1: 1:04:56

Gotcha Now. So as far as more science, how did you then later on get into? I think you created an organization.

Speaker 2: 1:05:08

Yeah, so man bro, so in prison. You know you think that the more science of America is what you read it, as you know, you think that the more scientific America is what you read it, as you know, you think that you're finna, come home to this big, beautiful nation of people who love each other and are united, and is love, truth, peace, freedom, justice and nationality, and you know what I'm saying. Like it's that, but it's not. The movement is very divided, you know what I mean. Like very sectarian, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:05:41

Like I said, you're saying the movement in the entire state or just in Chicago.

Speaker 2: 1:05:47

The entire condition of the Moorish Science Temple of America is divided and you don't really know that in prison until you get home. And it's like all the different people you was writing trying to get a response back are active today. Like I'm thinking that these are success in successive leaders. Like I'm thinking Braswell Bay, Bailey, can you bait our successive leaders? Nah, they all out here today. Well, at least they were when I came home. You know what I mean. Um, rest in peace.

Speaker 2: 1:06:23

I may like and please with bailey and all he's done, he's setting us with the seas as well. Um, so, having that experience, though, of the disunity, and coming from that prior mindset of knowing that our people deserve more, like I'm a student of WEB, du Bois and Frederick Douglass and Marcus Garvey from before knowing the prophet Like I read and studied those men before knowing the prophet, you know, studying organized movements like NAACP, the Black Panther Party, all those things before meeting the prophet Like this is the type of person I was as a young person. You know what I mean prophet. Like this is the type of person I was as a young person, you know. I mean, um, I've always appreciated the strength of unity, and so to see our movement so disunited and broken up, like that, you know, I mean like I've always taken a lot of uh, effort, even when I was in leadership.

Speaker 2: 1:07:13

I was a grand sheik for a while, and as a grand sheik of a temple, my thing was always to work with other temples. The number that we was given was 25. And my perspective was always in the brain of chapter 25, a holy covenant, you know. And so we would work with some everybody we'll go visiting places. Like, in fact, that was something that I did every single year until we started holding our own prophet's birthday celebration. I would take the Moors around to visit all the other temples. So we would go visit, can you? We would go visit Bailey Hill, we would go visit Braswell Bay all in the same night, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:07:49

And because I wanted the Moors to see and meet the other Moors, I'm not pressed about, oh, they're going to take my members. You know what I'm saying. Let's go meet the Moors. You know what I'm saying. Like I got a program going on, y'all let's work on this together, type stuff. And over the course of several years like six or seven years of trying to work with Moors and put myself on the back burner as a grand sheep trying to hoist others up, you know. So it doesn't seem like a competing thing, you know, trying to bring others together. I saw it. Still, it wasn't a lot of support being given, largely because I was a Grand Sheik and the perspective behind Closed Doors is that if our members support this program that has come from him and them, then what's stopping our members from just joining him and them? You know what I mean. So Grand Sheiks from other groups wasn't really prone to say, yeah, we're going to support that idea that bro.

Speaker 2: 1:08:52

Shawil and them got because their perspectives are well, shawil and them ain't legitimate, like Bras Obey going to tell you Bailey Illum illegitimate. So Braswell Bay is not going to support nothing that Bailey Illum offers them. Same thing with the Kirkland Bay group. They say Bailey Illum illegitimate. Same thing with Kenya. They say the Kirkland Bay. Like.

Speaker 2: 1:09:11

You know what I'm saying, right? So I said, okay, well, I'm going to take the grand chic hat off, I'm going to take that sash off. You know what I'm saying. I'm going to take that title off. I'm going to take that competition off. I'm going to take that threat away. I'm going to make myself a member. I'm going to show y'all what I've been talking about. I don't need to be a leader. You feel me Like I'll just, I'll sit and be a member and still be just as effective, still be just as impactful.

Speaker 2: 1:09:41

And so I resigned from being a grand chic, became a member of temple number one, which is where I believe that everybody in chicago should be. That's my sincere belief. That's why I did it. Um and uh, still there is stigma, because you know more zone to work with. The ain't quote unquote. You know the other groups of moors still don't identify with them, and so I said okay, well, I have to. I'm striving to find a medium that can offer the more space to work together, you know, and so that's why I created the nonprofit the Alliance for Motion American Progress.

Speaker 1: 1:10:28

May.

Speaker 2: 1:10:28

Allah be pleased.

Speaker 1: 1:10:36

So now you created this organization and what is going on? Because I see you, let me see, I reposted it. I just forgot exactly what was said on it. Look at this, all right. So the Alliance of Moorish American Progress, civics, education and Engagement Meetings that's your organization, right?

Speaker 2: 1:10:58

yeah, the Alliance for more American progress. Yeah, it's a. It's a think tank, an action network, a national think tank, an action network with international support. Um, we have a handful of focuses civics, civic education, engagement is just one of those. Um, the ultimate goal is to create space again as a think tank and action network, to prophecy if I get you more to think, you save yourselves. You know, um, and I sincerely, you know, believe and have faith in that.

Speaker 2: 1:11:35

And so, for those of us who are thinking along the lines of progress, we should be able to come together and share those thoughts and share those ideas, share those best practices, you know. Share what works and what didn't work, you know. Share our resources and our research with those who are also active and not passive. The action network. You know what I mean, because not all of us and no offense to nobody, but not all of us are active. And then there are those of us who are active and action is her delight. You see us all the time doing stuff. You know engaging in things, you know pushing the line. You know what I mean. So let's create a collective of those who are active, of those who are thinkers, and let's start sharing the ideas and creating space where you can go and find the ideas on your subject matter. Go and find, you know, the best practices on that subject matter. You know some of our other brothers and sisters who also are interested in or focus on or skilled in those subject matter areas. So some of the areas that we focus, that our goals are outlined for, are cultural advocacy and cultural heritage preservation, economics and entrepreneurship, civic education and engagement, building strong communities through civic education and engagement, sustainable agriculture and holistic health practices, educational research and excellence. Yeah, and so the goal or the intention, the way the organization is established, is that any three members who are interested in a subject matter area are encouraged to create a committee or subcommittee to think and act along those lines. So say, for example, you and two other Moors are experienced or skilled in media and y'all want to start corralling media resources and best practices and using media to our advantage as a community. Cool, y'all become the media committee or subcommittee and y'all start holding meetings whenever y'all have time and space and the rest of us who have some interest will attend those meetings and the rest, you know who have capacity, will do more and be involved more. You know who know more will offer more, and who know a little less will do more and be involved more. You know who know more will offer more and who know a little less will learn more.

Speaker 2: 1:14:02

You know what I mean, and so for me, by the grace of the law, I work for the House of Representatives now. I'm the district affairs manager for one of the state reps and I was a district outreach manager for two state reps at one time at the same time. But I'm the district affairs manager, community affairs manager for one of the state reps now, and a lot of that work entails working with organizations to communicate their needs and issues to the state reps and state agencies and the state government at large, helping with right legislation and support advocacy efforts and things of that nature. And so I'm like well, this is my not just what I do for a living, but, as I mentioned to you, it's been my focus since I was a fairly young person. I even went to school for political science and government a couple of years back in 2019. And so the civic end is just where my passion lies, so that's what I push. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:15:04

My hope is that other Moors, like my good brother asked us in his bay he's always into economics and business. Every time we talk he man, why I got this business idea, why I got these business resources for you, why I got he's got, like he's got these virtual offices that he's trying to get the Morris to use, which is a beautiful, amazing idea. Everyone get a virtual office and meeting a virtual office space is really dope. You should really check it out. Shameless plug to Young Brother. But I tell him all the time Mo, I need to put you with a couple other business, morris and y'all just start holding the economic committee meetings.

Speaker 2: 1:15:35

Yeah, I own a couple of businesses and yeah, I'm business savvy also, but it's because I know that I should be. You know what I mean. It's because I understand that I need more multiple streams of income. Right, like businesses. Like business isn't really my passion. Business is those more passion. Like they may be looking for the business resources. You know I mean all the business banks and the business isn't bad Like y'all hone that, so the rest of us who are on the fringe can come get it when we need it. You know I'm going to hone the civic part. Those who are interested in civics come meet with me and let's hone the civics.

Speaker 2: 1:16:24

Now would you say this is the way, just in your opinion, would you say the way you structure the organization is the way the Morris Science Temple should operate? Some of it, yes, I modeled it after what the Morris Science Temple of America, of what some of the Morris Science Temple of America should be doing. Yes, without a doubt of contradiction, I was taught organizing by a prophet, Noah Girali. Even though I studied you know, the Panthers and the NAACP and you know UNIA, like I studied the movements, I didn't really study how to organize through those movements. Prophet Noah Girali taught me that I need a secretary, treasurer and a chairman. Right, you know what I mean. And with that, that's how each of these committees start. You need someone to keep your records. You need someone to manage your finance.

Speaker 1: 1:17:05

You may need someone to manage your meetings Right. So now my idea, right for the Moorish Science Temple of America, was to create a technology department technology department because the older, the older Moors, they're not technologically savvy as as the younger Moors and to have like a technology department to where that department is educating whoever needs education on technology, as well as creating websites and all the necessary things to market and promote the temple, is essential. So that's why I wanted to create the technology department. Also, technology like, let's say, for instance, like a website for a website, social media and all that for a website, social media and all that there needs to be a liaison between the temple officials and, let's say, if someone was to work on the temple's website, there needs to be a liaison between the two Because there's to work on, to work on like a website and social media and all these different things.

Speaker 1: 1:18:18

You can hire people to do that. You don't have to do it yourself. It's actually easier nowadays. You could just go to upwork, hire someone on upwork, but you would need someone in between to talk to the temple and the people who are setting the website up for you. So so that was one of the reasons why I said there needs to be a technology department within the temple. I think that's missing. However, you created an organization where, if I would say, yo, I want to be down with this organization, let me create a technology department. Well, go ahead more, do it.

Speaker 2: 1:19:00

That's how your organization functions yes, sir, you and two others right and start publicizing y'all meetings, publicizing your findings, you know, publicizing y'all meetings meaning like putting it out there, make it known to the public. The same way I do civic meetings on Sundays. Come on y'all.

Speaker 1: 1:19:24

Right Transparency. Is that for the sake of transparency?

Speaker 2: 1:19:27

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:19:28

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:19:28

Absolutely so. See, the goal of this particular? The goal is progress, you know. So, yeah, we're going to have, you know, private discussions on things while we're building our, while we're planning on certain stuff. You know, yeah, but once we've learned how to make progress, yo, it's a clarion call. Come on, get it right like it's it's. It's written into the organization that our goal is to produce resources for the more scientific America, to produce educational resources through our activity.

Speaker 2: 1:20:03

Everything we do should be something that we can train the temples how to do. Like with this legislative effort that we're doing, like I have a couple of temples who I deal with and deal with and I'm I'm teaching them to do what we're what, what, what the Alliance has done. This is not something that we try to, or I'm teaching them to do what the Alliance has done. This is not something that we found out how to do it and we're going to gatekeep it. You know what I'm saying? No, not in the mildest form. We're calling them to come and be a part of it so you can learn how we're doing this. Let us help you do the same Every temple should have. I don't want to say certain stuff because you know the advantage lies in the knowing how to use it, not just to have another good thing, the possessing it. Not just the possessing it, but knowing how to use it. You know right, but like every temple should have, like a government liaison, a government affairs person. But that person must be properly trained in government relations. So all you Moors who think you super civic scientists, don't go calling yourself the government affairs more now and getting in the way and contacting the government over at Havilah Temple and embarrassing yourself. Please don't do that. Learn what that is. Go to school, like the prophet told us, get the good European education so you can be useful. You know what I mean Because, from my understanding working for the state rep, the organizations that make the most impact, the organizations up, the organizations that make the most impact, the organizations that make the most progress, are the organizations that have the best relationship with the government In our communities.

Speaker 2: 1:21:54

Oftentimes we have this anti-government perspective since the 70s. Oh, they killed our leaders, we anti. You know what I'm saying. Like I get it, I was that too, but I had to start realizing, even though I have a healthy distrust for the government and I carry that everywhere I go, I'll be at my job letting them know. Listen, let's not forget what our government has done to our people. We are in a position to make sure that it doesn't happen anymore, right, like I maintain that all the time, and so I say that to say, you know, even with that healthy distrust, I had to learn that even though I just you know I have a distrust.

Speaker 2: 1:22:38

Like I pay my phone bill and taxes come out, I go to the grocery store and they take in taxes. Gas is higher in Chicago because they've already added taxes. You know what I'm saying. Like groceries are higher in my city than they are in the suburbs because there are taxes and those taxes are used to run the government. The government is taking that money and doing more than just policing with it. It's funding my public education, it's funding public health. You know I mean it. It funds community-based organizations.

Speaker 2: 1:23:20

In Illinois they've legalized marijuana and the taxes from marijuana sales go back to the communities that were hit hardest by the war on drugs. So that means, out of all these billions of dollars of weed taxes that they collected, they're holding it for my community and I ain't going to go get it to help my community with it, cause I'll answer that foolish. It's immature, because that's your mama tax money and my mama tax money, that's me and my cousin. That's all our tax money. Why should we only allow other communities to capitalize on everyone's contribution? Right?

Speaker 2: 1:24:05

And so, being in this position, I learned that it's the organizations that have the best relationships with the government. The government is the biggest philanthropist in the world. Oh yeah, the government is giving out all of the money and they're not just printing it, it's our tax money that they're giving back. Go get your piece of it and do for your community, you know. And so, with that understanding, it just became really important for me, you know, to educate the Moors on what's available to us you know what I'm saying and to offer my skill and experience. Like I said, this is what I do for a living, this is what the state pays me to do this for other organizations Like, what kind of Moor would I be to not do it for us?

Speaker 1: 1:24:59

That's a fact. Now, before, before we wrap it up, I want to, I want you to explain to the people how do they find you, how do they find what is the name of the organization?

Speaker 2: 1:25:11

again, um the Alliance for Moorish American Progress the Alliance.

Speaker 1: 1:25:17

Here it is the Alliance for Moorish American Progress Civics and Engagement Meetings on Google Meet Sundays 5 to 7 pm. Can you give the people how to find you on social media if you want to give out an email?

Speaker 2: 1:25:34

Absolutely. I appreciate it, bro. So my social media is Shaweel. That's S-H-A-W, space E-L. I don't too much use my CJ Shaw Ill page anymore. I got to a point where I couldn't add any more friends so I started the other page. This is long before we could do professional pages, but I don't really use that page anymore, so Shaw Ill is the page that I use use.

Speaker 2: 1:26:01

You can find the organization at MoistureAmericanProgressorg. The website is under construction, but you can enter your email on that landing page and you'll be added for our email updates. You'll get the update emails and newsletter and things of that nature. We had a Facebook group called the Alliance for Moisture American Progress. We just recently archived it as well, but you can still, I believe, join and read up on the things that we were doing and get the links to how to engage with us. Now we mostly now operate through a WhatsApp group. We have a WhatsApp community. We have several different of the think tanks in that WhatsApp community. So, like our cultural preservation think tank, our civic think tank, they're all in there and those are where the more active Moors are. You can email us at info at moorshamericanprogressorg.

Speaker 2: 1:26:52

I'm on TikTok, bro underscore shaw, underscore ill. I'm on Instagram, bro, underscore shaw, underscore ill. My hand is always extended to support and help wherever I'm able. I truly sincerely believe that unity is the key. I'm a leader, so I'm about working with others.

Speaker 2: 1:27:12

Also, two more Go to ILGAgov, ilgagov. Go to ILGAgov, ilgagov, and in the search bar to the left, in the keyword you can type in Moorish and it'll bring up the three bills that we filed this year that refer to Moorish directly, that's House Bill 3481, 3486, and 3627, if I'm not mistaken, in order. That is the bill to create the Illinois Moorish American Family Commission, the bill to designate August as Moorish American Awareness Month and the bill to add Moorish or Asiatic as an ethnicity or race classification in Illinois. So those are the things that the Civic Committee is working on right now. Civic Committee and Cultural Heritage Committee is working on right now and, of course, cultural Heritage Committee is working on right now and of course, we would love y'all's support and participation.

Speaker 2: 1:28:04

Oh, real quick. We have a letter, an email template. It's a link on my page. It's pinned to my page on Facebook. Click that link and submit your information to make sure that you send a support letter to your state rep, governor and attorney general and senator. All you got to do is enter your name and address and email address and it automatically generates a support letter to let them know that you support our legislation. So again, go to my Facebook page, shawville, click that link it's pinned to the top and uh, support the legislation for awareness for our people.

Speaker 1: 1:28:40

Appreciate that that's peace, I think.

Speaker 2: 1:28:41

I think, uh, mores and other states should follow follows, follow suit with that I'm hoping so and I appreciate you for mentioning that, because I need to make clear also that this, even though these bills are in illinois, this is just um a prototype, so to speak. Our intention is to support and help other more than other states do the same, so that we can take our efforts federal. The congressmen here in Illinois have already told us that they're interested in going federal with it, but they want to make sure that they will have the same support nationwide in the federal arena that we're having, you know, to organize in the state of Illinois.

Speaker 1: 1:29:22

Right Now, before we cut out, I just want to put this out there. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I would like for you to come up again and talk about this in detail.

Speaker 2: 1:29:30

I would love to, bro. I would love to. I enjoy speaking with you. I enjoy building with you, bro. I had a good time on your program. You know the conversation was fluid. You know we talked about some things that I think are useful to the community, you know, so I would love to, bro, by all means.

Speaker 1: 1:29:45

Indeed. On that note, thank y'all for checking in. Thank y'all for checking us out. Nyp. See y'all tomorrow. Well, actually this is going to be posted on Saturday, but yeah, I'll see y'all tomorrow. Sunday Eric Muhammad, I got from the Nation of Islam on Sunday. See y'all tomorrow and we're out of here. Peace you.