From Hip-Hop to Mysticism: Sheik El's Journey Through Culture and Consciousness

Sheikh Dunamel's journey weaves through the vibrant tapestry of 1980s hip-hop culture, military service, spiritual awakening, and profound personal transformation. Growing up in Syracuse during what he calls "the greatest decade in my life," Sheikh immersed himself in breaking, emceeing, and the authentic cultural expressions that defined early hip-hop—a world away from today's commercialized version.

His candid recounting of military service in the U.S. Navy reveals unexpected struggles, including a crack addiction that became a turning point rather than an endpoint. This raw honesty illuminates the path that eventually led him to becoming a powerful youth mentor, helping over 250 young people find alternatives to street life between 1998 and 2005. Sheikh's approach to mentorship reflects his deeper philosophy: "I don't give people orders. What I try to do is create an idea with a suggestion."

The spiritual dimensions of Sheikh's life story prove equally fascinating, as he navigated Moorish Science teachings, opened Temple No. 18 in Syracuse, and eventually spent years in South Africa running an Ibogaine clinic while hosting a radio show with over a million listeners. His exploration of mystical traditions spans from Islamic practices to indigenous Hoodoo, revealing a mind that refuses to be confined by singular dogma. "I'm swift and changeable," he explains, embodying a fluidity that allows him to move between cultural contexts while maintaining his authentic self.

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• 26:05 (Cont.) From Hip-Hop to Mysticism: Sheik El's Journey Through Culture and Consciousness

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:18

what's going on out there is ron brown lmt. The people's fitness professional co-host, is not here on a friday. This is not his day, so he's not here. So it's all me. And Sheik Denim L is with us from Syracuse in the building. Peace, brother, peace, how you be, I'm good brother.

Speaker 2: 0:40

I'm good. First of all, thank you for having me on the show man. I heard a lot about your show, hon, I'm good brother, I'm good. First of all, thank you for having me on the show man. I heard a lot about your show. Honored that you would even invite me on Glad to be here. Yeah, I'm Sheik Dunamel, syracuse, new York. You know, I do a little bit of this, I do a little bit of that. I have a background in hand-to-hand martial arts as well. Like yourself, my specific systems of martial arts are Filipino and Indonesian, which we would call Kali and Salat. Also a little background in 52, the hand play. You know, little knife knife work is my thing, I like the blades.

Speaker 2: 1:17

You already know. Yeah, yeah, no, no question, I love the Karambits. I love the Karambit, I love the blades, I love the fixed blade. You know what I'm saying? I've been doing the arts since I was 11 years old. Um, I'm 57 now. So consistent, you know, consistent training and stuff like that man and I've had some great experiences in the systems. And, um, I've been fortunate enough to live, you know, in other countries and lived overseas. Lived in africa for almost four years south africa, johannesburg, durban. Spent a little bit of time in Cape Town as well, taught martial arts over there.

Speaker 1: 1:51

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on, brother, Before we go there, because we're going to go there. Let's rewind, let's talk about. You're from Syracuse, right, Right, Okay Now you came up in Syracuse 70s, 80s. How was that experience?

Speaker 2: 2:09

Oh, no doubt. I was born in 1968. So I turned in 1980, I turned 12 years old. So the 80s was the greatest decade in my life, because those 10 years from 12 to 22 years old, pretty much for any of us is the shaping and the figuration of the beginning of our travels into our adult life. You know what I'm saying. So from the age of 12 to 22, the 80s was beautiful man. It was one of the greatest decades ever, man. You know, I did my first. I actually did my first headspin in 79. Did my first headspin in 79. Did my first headspin in 79. You know what I'm saying Break dancing, emceeing.

Speaker 2: 2:51

You know all of that. I was engulfed around culture. I grew up, you know, amongst Harambe, which was a Pan-African organization, and then we had brothers and sisters in the community who had businesses. You know, we had Brother Bongo. He had Island Furniture. He was a Jamaican brother but he was also a Rasa. Then we had Brother Alavali, who had the Temple of Okibe Long Bookstore, the first Asiatic bookstore in the town. You know what I mean. We had Baba Omobuwali, who had Shanti Amani, which is a West African dancer who would dance too, which I was a part of from 1980 to 1995 when he passed away.

Speaker 2: 3:31

So everything about the 80s is beautiful, the culture, specifically hip hop. You know what I mean, because we actually live the culture. I still live it. See what people don't get today. You know what I try to explain to my grandchildren and my children, and things of that nature, is that what they're witnessing through the music industry, or what I call the music industry, is actually not hip hop. What they're witnessing is the hijacking of a word and a whole machination engulfed or shredded behind that word. And they think that that is the ends to the means. And I'm telling them that music is a part of hip hop. Hip hop and ain't music, gotcha? Indeed, there's a whole bunch of components that make up the culture. For me, hip-hop is the fountain of youth. It keeps us in a particular state of psychology. There's a particular psychology with hip-hop. You would only get that psychology if you came, if you were born, if you were there from its inception, because there was there was like how you said that so.

Speaker 1: 4:31

So I don't want to cut your wisdom, like this is, you're already setting it off with fire. So now, okay, there, uh, since it's, it's right. So I was born 1980. Okay, in Harlem, and so I was always back and forth Harlem in the Bronx, because my family from Harlem in the Bronx, harlem in the Bronx, okay. So I sort of abandoned buildings and this that People break, dancing on cardboard, like that whole era, like I remember you know what I'm saying, even though I was real young, but I, I remember that era, but being there since its inception, indeed, right, so us, us being new yorkers and you being from syracuse, how was that? How was the culture in syracuse being that? Syracuse is not, of course, it's not New York City, right? So we, we, our experiences are different. So how was it? How did you get that city essence up to Syracuse?

Speaker 2: 5:33

I'm going to tell you something, man. It's funny man, because I was just building with one of the guys on the phone, just maybe a couple of hours ago, that I came up with we grew up together. His name is. We used to call him G-Man. He's like the youngest DJ in the town. At 12 years old he used to rock the handcuffs on his hands and break the turntable with the handcuffs, and all that and 12, 13. Right, g was from Harlem, his mother was from Harlem.

Speaker 2: 6:05

So this cat. I told him yo, man, you was one of the most influential teenagers in all of our lives because of how you live. He used he would go to new york, like every weekend. He was always in the city. He had come back sunday, sunday night, like well, actually early monday morning, dropped the clothes off and go to school. You know I'm saying like yo son had leather fronts on. We didn't know what a leather front was. You know I'm saying we talk about 1980 wearing leather fronts, gazelles. No, bro, we in the, we in the sixth, we in the sixth and seventh grade, you know, so, so, so he, he had another cat who was a, who was an elder to us. He's like we called him, big brother. His name was mitchy vaughn. We called him 45, 45.

Speaker 2: 6:41

Mitch used to go to the city too, but mitch was able to get into the club so. So Meech brought back the first breakdown. At that time he called it breakdown, you know what I'm saying. He's like yo, he's catching the city, yo come back with the breakdown, blah, blah, blah. So we came back. He did a little footwork and did a spin on the floor and did a little freeze and we was like oh, but yo, fam, I was one of the nicest. Nicest because I was a martial artist and a gymnast. Ooh, crazy combination. Yo, front flips in the footwork, you know what I'm saying. Windmill into a headslide, into a headspin, you know what I'm saying. Like a swipe into a headspin, into a windmill, into a swipe. Like yo, my combinations was incredible. Footwork was crazy. I took out crews. Matter of fact, me and G. How I met, how I got with them, was went to a skating rink. The name of his crew was called Puma Nation. It's a whole history about Puma Nation.

Speaker 1: 7:36

Now, puma Nation is not in the city, it's in Syracuse. It's Syracuse, yeah, yeah. See, this is yeah, let's get it.

Speaker 2: 7:42

So the whole Puma Nation crew right. So I walked up in the club and they was in the joint. They was doing their thing, you know, top rocking and all that Leather front sawing the suede Pumas Kangos straight New York. I came in in a sweatsuit and ripped the whole squad. I took the whole squad out B and I was known for doing that and I always traveled alone Wherever I went. If I went to a club, I would just walk and go to the dance floor and just go like this and just everybody move and I just kill. I kill everybody in the spot. You get up and walk and leave.

Speaker 1: 8:18

Right, right. So now, now, with that experience, right, so bring from the city to Syracuse hip-hop, so it wasn't like so much of a lag in the culture, like as far as, like what Syracuse got. So let's say, like Harlem and the Bronx and all that, the five boroughs, we start rocking Gazelles. When does Syracuse start rocking Gazelles? 1980. So like, but when did gazelles come about? Because before that, like, I was born in 1980. Right, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 8:52

Obviously, they was wearing gazelles already, because we was wearing them too. We got that from the city. Remember, run DMC wore gazelles, you know what I'm saying. Like we used to see gazelles, like you would see gazelles, like, with certain Everybody didn't wear gazelles, even in the hip-hop culture it was certain crews that rocked gazelles B and there was always fly guys. You know what I'm saying. You know, run DMC, that was a fly duo man, them boys, they was fly. You know matching jean joints, you know what I'm saying. And the Adidas, like they was fly. The game changed, the fashion game changed because, like, the Bronx had a particular look. It was chains and leather and all this other stuff. Because the Bronx was coming out of that game, that game culture. Right, exactly, savage goals, seven deadly sins, black spades. You know what I'm saying. It was coming out of the game culture. So we understand that. Then you had run DMC. They coming from Queens, queens always been fly guys. Right.

Speaker 2: 9:59

Right, they came fly like Queens do. Right, harlem is fly guys too. They come harlem, dress right, young man. So it was like in syracuse. Took on that type of style. They took on that type of harlem queens thing the real b-boy, the real b-boy, mcs, that's what they took on.

Speaker 2: 10:19

You know, I'm saying because that was, that was the paradigm. You know I'm saying like that's, that's what, that's what they took on. And we had crews. We had KOC crew, you had Puma Nation. You had McNasty crew, you had the Southside Rockers. You had Can't Be Stopped. The CBS crew. You had Grandmaster, grand Electric Shop man, it was DJ, it was so many man, it was so many DJ it was so many, man, it was so many.

Speaker 1: 10:45

So now so hip hop, syracuse, you're growing up. You know breaking you, mc, yeah, I was the MC, yeah, mc, you ever getting to DJing and all that cutting.

Speaker 2: 11:01

I got a little bit into DJing, but my cousin was a DJ and my DJ. When I rocked the Knights of Columbus, my DJ was a 13-year-old. His name was DJ EJ. Matter of fact, you might know him. They call him Eddie James. He got a show called Chop Shop. Okay, I don't know that name. I don't know that name. Yeah, eddie James. He was a producer for Def Jam. Okay, he got his own podcast. It's called the Chop Shop. They do music and they do all the young producers and Paul.

Speaker 1: 11:26

It's actually an old podcast. I got to check that out. What about getting up?

Speaker 2: 11:33

Tagging, yeah, Graffiti yeah. Oh man, my guy brother and my man, Tink Tink was a beast. His waltz was incredible, Son yo, all I could do was tag. I couldn't bomb, I couldn't paint, but I could tag, though you know what I'm saying. I couldn't bomb or paint, but Tink yo, that man, that yo, Tink, was nice. He was super nice with the characters. I mean yo, we was rocking full-blown jean joints, full-blown jean joints, full-blown. You know what?

Speaker 1: 12:09

I'm saying airbrushed 8081. Crazy, crazy. So now going through that hip-hop, breaking that whole culture? How did you get into the teachings? How were you introduced to the teachings?

Speaker 2: 12:23

This G brought the lessons back from harlem.

Speaker 1: 12:27

I got it from g okay, he gave me the lesson right now, though g?

Speaker 2: 12:34

he right here in syracuse. His name is hakeem. He speak fluent arabic. He's an emam at the mosque right around the block. Oh wow, and g ran. G was. G had production deals with Def Jam. Matter of fact, he was a part of Trackmasters Rich Nice, rich Nice, that's his ace. You know what I'm saying. He was in the studio when KRS-Made. You know, step Into a World and all that man. He was around in the Puff Daddy days and all that man. He was around in the Pup.

Speaker 1: 13:04

Daddy days and all that man Step into the world. That's 96, 97?. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:11

He got a story. That's my man right there. He got a real story we came up from childhood. I mean a real story, like a movie type story. Okay, he had a key at 13, man.

Speaker 1: 13:23

Oh, wow, yeah, he was moving around, yeah he was moving around.

Speaker 2: 13:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I held the mathematics down though.

Speaker 1: 13:31

Okay, so you got the mathematics. And then what happened from that point?

Speaker 2: 13:35

From that point on, we just kept adding on, we just kept building, going to school. You know what I'm saying. High school, junior high school, high school. You know what I mean. Shanti Amani, the African dance troupe. I got the name Kenyatta Atodiallo. It was based on the Yoruba religion. The dance troupe was so a lot of the things that we did was based on the Orishas. A lot of the dances and the invocations actually was based on the Orishas Shango Ye Maya Ogun, you know what I'm saying, and Obatala and things like that man. So we kept going. You know that went on until 12th grade for me, but I still maintain and continue to stay with it. I mean, I went to the military in 86. I graduated from high school in 86. Went to the military, went to the United States Navy in 86.

Speaker 1: 14:20

And did two tours got out in 89, got kicked out Whoa, whoa, whoa pause. So now you did two tours.

Speaker 2: 14:26

Yeah, explain those two tours. I was in the United States Navy. The tours are when you get on your whatever particular location, whatever ship. I was on an aircraft carrier. I was on two aircraft carriers. My first aircraft carrier was called the USS Kitty Hawk CB-62. We went from San Diego to Philadelphia but on the way from San Diego to Philadelphia we stopped in the Philippines. We stopped in different other other locations. That's called a tour. You know, from one side of the coast to the other side of the coast is called a tour.

Speaker 2: 14:55

I went on two tours. I went on from the West coast to the East, from the East back to the West. I got stationed in Philly in 86. From east back to the west. I got stationed in philly in 86, from from got stationed in philly. So when we got, when we went through from san diego, I went to a school in san diego, got out of the boot camp in chicago, from boot camp I got sent to san diego where I went to a school for for culinary, for to be a chef, right. So went to a school. From school they sent me to my location or my destination, which was the USS Kitty Hawk, but I had to wait for the ship to come in to get on the ship. So I got on the ship in the Philippines. They sent me to the Philippines to meet the ship because the ship had already left. So they flew me to the Philippines. So I was in the Philippines for like six weeks waiting for the ship to get there.

Speaker 1: 15:44

Hold on, hold on, hold, on, hold on, Because you're moving at like light speed, right. So now you did these two tours.

Speaker 2: 15:52

The first tour, what was that experience like? I'm about to drop it to you. That's what I'm about to show you, I'm still on the first tour, all right.

Speaker 2: 16:00

So they flew me to the Philippines to wait for the ship to come into the Philippines, because I was the next dock. They couldn't fly me to the ship while I was on the water, you know what I'm saying. So it was en route. So they flew me to the Philippines. So I was there for like some weeks before the ship got there. Mind you, I'm 17 years old, bro, in the Philippines, out on Magsaysay Boulevard, in a longapost city, right subic bay, with 225 massage parlors and bars all the way up and down the strip, and I'm a scorpio and I'm 17. Yeah, yeah, yep, yeah, yeah, it was wild. Yo, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, yeah, I was, I was all over the place. They started calling me. They started calling me. They started calling me the mayor of the town, the people in the town, because they would see me so much. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 17:06

I used to take rice off the ship and bring rice to like people outside. You know it's a thing called. They're called mamasan. A mamasan is a woman who has daughters, of course, but some mamasans have brothels. So I used to come out with like a 10-pound bag of rice and take it to mamasan and the world was mine, bro. I could do whatever I wanted to do all through the house. I'd go in the refrigerator they didn't have a refrigerator, but I'd just go drink the sugar cane, do whatever I wanted to do, walk around in my boxes, whatever I wanted to do. Right, you know what I'm saying. It was just a wild time man. I mean, you know, you know, ship came in, got on the ship and everything was good.

Speaker 2: 17:47

And then I messed around, bro, from the age of 17 to the age of 20, I caught a crack addiction inside of the military. I was on crack from night, from from 80, from 86. No, almost the end of 86 to about 89. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I put it on myself. You know what I mean. I was young and stupid. You know what I'm saying. I went through a lot of things with that, but I always had somewhere to sleep, I always had somewhere to go. You know what I'm saying. So it wasn't like I was in the street somewhere, it was just I would just take my check and burn it on crack and then once I spit my check up.

Speaker 1: 18:26

Let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah, let's talk about it. I don't have like. Of course we're not advocating it, but how do you get hooked?

Speaker 2: 18:38

I'm going to tell you what happened. I come from an era everybody smoked weed. Herb was just a part of the era you, I'm saying the 70s. I came, I was, you know. So herb was just a thing. So growing up I used to smoke weed. We all did smoke some weed and then rhyme freestyle or whatever. So we got into the military, you know, I mean, you couldn't smoke weed because you could, but it would stay in your system too long.

Speaker 2: 19:03

So the old has is like yo, you shouldn't do that, man, if you want to, you shouldn't do that man If you want to get right. You know what I'm saying. Use this, try this you know what I'm saying and it'll be out of your system by Monday. It'll only stay in your system two or three days. So me, not. I'm listening to these old dudes. I'm figuring they looking out for me. I'm 17, man, you know what I'm saying. And I started using that's pretty much it when I came home, when I got put out in 89, october 19th 1989, I got put out. And it's funny because a year before that my mother was talking to me while I was in and she was like yeah, I had a dream that you was at the door, knocking at the door with your bags and stuff, and I started laughing. I was like, yeah, I had a dream that you was at the door knocking at the door with your bags and stuff, and I started laughing. I was like mom you bugging.

Speaker 2: 19:55

But a year later I was at the door, knocking at the door with my bags and shit, yeah, yeah. And she became a little issue later on in my life because she could always see things before they happened and then just expose me, just exposed me. So I realized that I, after a certain point, I realized that hustling just wasn't going to be for me, man, because she just knew everything. You know I'm saying so, you know, I went another way. I took my little hustling money and I went to school and after I got out 1992 I went to college, I started my college. I started college in 1992 and when you went to Syracuse.

Speaker 2: 20:29

No, I went to Onondaga Community College and I got a degree. I got an associate's degree in criminal justice and then I got a scholarship also to teach in an urban environment. So I took a teaching scholarship to Oswego State University where I got my bachelor's and my master's from.

Speaker 1: 20:50

That's peace, that's peace, that's peace. And so what year was that? How old were you?

Speaker 2: 20:53

Um, that was in two. I got my master's in 2001. So that was 24 years ago, um 30, 35, 34, 35. Okay, okay.

Speaker 1: 21:06

Yo, oh, one second Peace. Everybody in the chat. I love this show. Yo, thank you, brother, really appreciate you. Awareness Daily if you're watching. I did see the super sticker. I really appreciate you, brother, the new member, really appreciate you. Everybody in the chat, thanks for watching tonight's show. Back to you, brother. So now you got the degree. So where'd?

Speaker 2: 21:33

you go from there. From there. When I got my master's, I was already working at a place called the Southwest Community Center and I was basically what they would call the career specialists job placement, employment specialists but I was also a lot more Now with this program. It was called Results and this program was centered around youth ages 16 to 24 years old. High school, as well as what they would call gang bangers and shooters. High school, as well as what they would call gangbangers and shooters. My thing was to help them find an alternative to the criminal nice that they started actually changing. Bro, I stayed there from 1998 to 2005. From 1998 to 2005, I had over 250 students come through.

Speaker 2: 22:50

None of them, none of them, none of them, none of them fell. None of them, none of them, nobody. Some went to college, some went into trades, some went into just life, got married and so on and so forth. I still see some of them today, man, and they still thank me. I still see some of them today, man, and they still thank me. Bro, if it wasn't for you, mr D, if it wasn't for you, if it wasn't for things you told me or made me do, if it wasn't the way you made me think.

Speaker 2: 23:15

See, my thing is this you can never give somebody. I don't give people. I don't tell them what to do. I don't give them orders. I don't order people to do anything. What I try to do is I try to create an idea with a suggestion. Right, yo, maybe you should think about, if possible. Have you ever tried this or have you ever done that? You know what I'm saying? Or have you ever thought about something that you've never thought about? I ask these wild questions because when you ask a crazy question, it gets a person to think abstractly. Right, you know I'm saying. But the question can be crazy to the point where it's offensive, right, right, you know I'm saying because so you can ask people things that to infer to actually try to read them and you can be offensive.

Speaker 2: 24:09

Because everything, for me, everything is communication, right, Not just words, brother. To me, communication is not just words, it's symbolic interaction. All communication is symbolic interaction. It's not just words. If I do this and then all us, it's all communicating. Our children do it to us all the time we did it to our parents. They talk to us. You take your eyes and look over this way, or head up, look that way, start nudging. As adults, we know what all that means. When our kids do that stuff, that's symbolic interaction. They know they can't talk back because something might happen if they talk back. So they talk back in other ways. They use other things to do, and this is a human condition. When a man says something out of his mouth, I don't listen to that. I watch his body. I watch what he mouth. I don't listen to that. I watch his body. I watch what he's doing as he's speaking to me Right, right, right, right, right, right.

Speaker 2: 25:15

Indeed. Indeed Because he may be saying something else and maybe speaking to somebody else while he's speaking to me, right?

Speaker 1: 25:59

That's an actual fact, actual fact. So now you do this, right? You help the youth and things like that. How'd you get into morris science?

Speaker 2: 26:09

ah, beautiful question. So a good brother from syracuse, new york, named sharif bay, okay, yeah, sharif, sharif, sharif came. Sharif came back to syracuse in about 89, 89, 90, so I think it was 89 and 90.

Speaker 1: 26:24

Hold on, let me shout out my brother, sharif Bey. What's up, what's up. Brother, I think he was just on. What's the brother's name? Oh man, I never really watched the guy, but he's like popping now. What's the guy's name? He was just on his show, billy Carson. Oh, billy Carson, he was just on his show. He was just on his show.

Speaker 2: 26:48

Yeah, Okay, yeah. So Sharif came back to Syracuse in 89. He had, you know, I guess, he was off on his travels and he came back with this thing from the Mothers and Sons Culture Club. It was the Mothers and Sons Culture Club, it was the CMB information and we all thought it was Morris Science at the time. All of us you know what I'm saying, you know what I mean we thought it was Morris Science and we kept doing what we was doing. And then Sharif got another contact with a brother named Ross Sadiel and that's how I was introduced pretty much into Morris Science was through Shareef Bey bringing you know the CM Bey works in, and that's how it happened. At one time we all had a temple together at one time, you know when we was coming up?

Speaker 1: 27:38

Oh, you and Shareef Bey. So what year was that, though? That was like 1998. Oh wow, that was like 90, 98. Oh wow, it was like 98. That was around the same time I came into consciousness pretty much. Yeah, I was already knee deep in it.

Speaker 2: 27:58

Yeah, ok, let me show you something. See that.

Speaker 1: 28:09

Wait, I can't see. Put it up a little bit more.

Speaker 2: 28:12

See Sharif right there. You see me right there in all the black.

Speaker 1: 28:17

So who got the black fez on? That's me. Wait, hold up, hold it up, bring it up a little bit more. Yeah, all right, now we can see it clearly. So now, where's Sharif? He's standing.

Speaker 2: 28:34

He's the third, there's me, then there's another brother, and that's him. That's Sharif, after the other brother.

Speaker 1: 28:40

Okay, with the red fez on Yep, I see him. That's great. That's history, right, that's syracuse history. So who else? Who else is in there?

Speaker 2: 28:49

that's uh, still, still uh with the movement um, the brother that's in front of me, yeah, he's still with the movement. Um, that's my son and my daughter. It's my son and my daughter down there. My son, my son is 32 years old now. My daughter is 30. That's peace. The other brother over there in the Maroon Fest, he's still in. And the young brother with the turban on and the other brother with the black. I don't know how active they are, but they still carry their title. They still carry. You know, they're B&L.

Speaker 1: 29:25

Yeah they're B&L. Yeah, Okay, so now Sharif came with the CM Bay teachings. Y'all got the teachings, Y'all opened up a temple. And then what happened with the temple and like that whole initiative.

Speaker 2: 29:38

Well, you know, life happens, brother. You know what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying. You know people went different ways. Things happen. The leadership we was with it was a split. You know what I'm saying. You know things fell apart and I left and a lot of the brothers they stayed with the leadership I bounced pretty much OK.

Speaker 1: 29:56

So now, after you, now you pick up the CM Bay teachings, and then from there, where'd you go with more science? And then from there, where'd you go with Morris Science?

Speaker 2: 30:03

By that time no, by that time, by this time, I had put the CMB teachings down, because now I understood what the profit was. I understood the difference. You understand what I'm saying. So I got strictly on Morris Science.

Speaker 1: 30:20

Okay, can you explain the difference for the people?

Speaker 2: 30:28

Yeah, CM Bay. I'll put it like this CM Bay didn't teach religion, he didn't bring up religion. Matter of fact, on page six of book one he said I have rejected all isms, including my own Islamism. So there's a difference From that. Statement alone tells you. So there's a difference from that statement alone tells you that there's a difference. You understand what I mean. While we're dealing with holy books and prophets and so on and so forth, he's dealing with the science of astrology, masonry, astrology, law, history, all intertwined, Some cosmic histories and so on and so forth. So there's a difference. They have a Zodiac constitution. The Moral Science of America has a divine constitution and bylaws.

Speaker 2: 31:16

There's a difference. So I don't knock that, because that science has its value. Trust me, it has value. But I wanted to learn the science of the prophet and that's what I put my focus and my concentration on and I started going through the Morris world man.

Speaker 1: 31:34

OK, now, once you put that down and you started going through the Morris world, what was the? What was your like, your point man, or what? Did you go to a temple, or did you go to a person, or?

Speaker 2: 31:47

no, what happened was after I, after I left and broke away from them, I had contact with all types of brothers and sisters. So I started doing research. That's all came, came up, came found. I found I found a brother named nine, brother ninee from Virginia and me and him was building that and he was like you know what's going on in Syracuse, blah, blah, blah. And I was like yo man, I want to put a temple here. And I got introduced to my real first Supreme Grand Chic. His name was Grand Chic Henry Bae, out of Long Beach, new York, originally out of Queens. He was the first national organizer of the More Scientific of America in 1969 in Queens, new York, him and a brother, dokes Bay, and another brother. I forgot the other brother's name, but they are the original founders of the Great Seal brother Right in.

Speaker 1: 32:38

Queens Right. Yeah, my grand sheik.

Speaker 2: 32:45

My supreme grand chick Is one of the original founders Of the great soul. Right, okay, that was in the 50s, I mean, pardon me that was in the 60s In the 60s now.

Speaker 1: 32:56

Can you? I know I got you going all over the place, but like yo, this is dope the great soul. Can you explain that right there?

Speaker 2: 33:06

The great soul. You know I don't know much about the great seal because I didn't really deal with them, but I knew brothers who was a part of it. You know I met brother rami bay. Brother rami bay was cool, he was on 140th, and guy brewer back 141st, and guy brewer, back in the days in queens we used to go highlighting, you know I'm saying, and um, brother hakeem bay, if I not mistaken, he was a part of the gray. So at one time it was another brother too.

Speaker 2: 33:27

But what they did was they were like a, they were like to me. They were more like a off branch of the more scientific of America. But they had other elements that was intertwined in the gray. So like Freemasonry you know saying masonry and other other things you know was there as well, you know, and I never really got, I never really was a part of the Grace. So that was one organization that I didn't become a part of. I knew brothers and I knew brothers who was a part of it, though Got you, got you, so you did, so you went on your travels, you basically studied on your own.

Speaker 2: 34:04

Yeah, and I opened up and I got commission, I got with Grand Chic and Rebay and I ended up getting a charter and I opened up Temple no 18 in Syracuse, new York, from 2000 to 2004. In 2004, I left and went to Africa and came back a couple months.

Speaker 1: 34:22

Hold on. You went to Africa. What did you do there in Africa? Africa?

Speaker 2: 34:25

though. I went to visit. I went on a visit at that time. I was married and my wife is my wife. Her family are South African. You know what I'm saying. Her mother was. Her mother was um, was an ANC, was an ANC member who had got exiled from South Africa. So she had been away from her own home for over 30 some years. She was an ANC fighter. Her mother, my ex-wife's mother. So we ended up going back. She wanted to see her family. My ex-wife wanted to see her family overseas. She wanted to go over there. So we went over there, came back home and Grand Sheik Henry Bates gave me a hollering and said that he would have revoked the charter from the temple because they wasn't keeping things in order. And um told me that he would give me a charter back if I wanted to reopen the temple. So I said no, I did so. I didn't do it from there.

Speaker 2: 35:16

By this time I'm well established in the morris world. People know me, so I'm. I'm helping people open temples, close temples. You, you know what I'm saying, um. From 2000 and from 2004 to 2017, I wasn't a part of no grand body for 13 years, I was just being an angel. I was just out here doing, doing what I do, but I was still helping the Moorish science temple of America, even though I wasn't an active, you know member with a body of followers or whatever. You know what I mean, because I was never in the titles or nothing like that. My thing is the work. I do the work. I'm not. The titles don't mean nothing to me. You know what I'm saying. Anybody can tell you it, never. It don't mean I'm not a title guy from there, man, you know, just doing my thing.

Speaker 2: 36:16

2007,. I went back to Africa for some years, from 2007 to 2010,. The middle of 2010, june somewhere around there is when I returned. But while I was there I ran an ibogaine clinic. I had my own ibogaine clinic. I had my own radio show on Channel Islam which had a million listeners. I was teaching martial arts. I was even in a commercial. You know what I'm saying. My father came to visit. My father was like yo man, like what are you doing? Like you over here living like a kingpin? You got people picking you up, you got your own radio show and blah, blah, blah. I said dad man, I said you just fell in place like this. You know what I mean, you know the reason I went back, the reason I went to Africa in 2007,. I'm going to tell you this story, man.

Speaker 2: 37:19

I went in 2007 because my ex-wife took my daughters to Africa, to South Africa, and said she wasn't bringing them back. So I was like, well then, how does that work? So she took them. It was already there. She called me from there telling me that they were already there and that I wasn't going to see him again. And you know all of this.

Speaker 2: 37:37

So I got off the phone, went to my boss I was working at this place called Elmcrest Children's Center. I was a therapist went to my boss and said, listen, I need a two-week vacation, man, I need to take a trip to Africa you know South Africa to get my kids. He's like no problem, man, you know no problem. I had the time. So I got a one-way ticket. I didn't get a round trip, I got a one-way ticket $747. I remember the price.

Speaker 2: 38:08

Got on the plane, flew over there, called her on the phone from South Africa. She talking smack. So I said, yo, what was the name of the airport in South Africa? And she's like, oh, the Tambo. I said yeah, I'm at the Tambo. I heard the phone drop right. So about 45 minutes she show up at the airport and pick me up or whatever.

Speaker 2: 38:26

So now I'm there, and I'm there for three and a half years and, bro, all the blessings that came out of it, bro, it all started when I did a lecture at a festival that I wasn't even scheduled to do. The brothers I was with the Muslim brothers, I was with they was like I'm pretty swift with things. So you know, I do substance abuse therapy, counseling and mediation, stuff like that. So in South Africa they were at least 12 years behind us in substance abuse information, as well as procedures, policies, regulation, things of that nature, right? So I was up on that, because this is what I do. So I got up there and did a speech. I did like a little lecture off the top of the head. Y'all blew the house down B they asked me to come back the next day and talk again. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 39:16

I spoke to about 20,000 Muslims in two days. All of the youth swarmed me. They was following everywhere I went. The children was behind me, bro, the kids, because the message that I brought, see, my thing, is this I don't talk to the adults. But I will give the adults instruction and tell them how you're messing up. So y'all want the kids to come to the mosque. Y'all want the kids to come to the church Everybody listen. Y'all want them to come to the mosque. Y'all want them to come to the church. Y'all want them to come to Jehovah's Witness, to the Jehovah's Hall, all that. Y'all want them to show up. Y'all want the kids to come, but guess what y'all doing? Wrong? Islam.

Speaker 2: 39:59

None of those religions are addressing the current condition that the children deal with daily. They don't want to hear about trees crying, they want to understand how they can do it. Gang banging how is this scripture going to help me defeat drug, you know, substance abuse? They ain't getting the real talks they want. They want. You know what I'm saying. So it's like it's another method to the madness.

Speaker 2: 40:22

And the method to the madness for me, what I'm dealing with the youth is, is that I speak to them in a language they understand, and I'm not judgmental when I'm speaking to them in a language they understand because, see, I was 15, 16, 17. Shit, I had a crack addiction, I mean. So what I'm doing, so what I'm using now, is the best part. God is understanding, right, right. So I'm showing that understanding is not just something that we utilize by listening, but understanding is an action. Okay, draw that up, draw that up. Understanding is an action, because a person can tell you yeah, I understand, but you don't believe them until they show you they understand. And in some form or another, they will show you they understand. Okay, you see what I'm saying, right? So our youth are show me, they're showing me god. I come from the era of showing proof, one thing that the five percent nation taught me. That stayed with me in everywhere I've walked and traveled, every school, every chair I've sat in always show and prove and never take anything on face value.

Speaker 1: 41:51

You go more with science. You go to Africa. After you come from Africa, you come back to Syracuse. Yeah, you come back to Syracuse. What year? And then what'd you do? At that point, I came back in 2000,.

Speaker 2: 42:07

In the middle of 2010. Came back you know what I'm saying Lost everything. I didn't, you know, because I gave up my house and all that. When I went back for the four years, I had the intention of not coming back. My intention was to go, stay so, but Allah had other intentions. It was other intentions going on, so ended up coming back, came back, you know, came back home From 2010 to like the middle of 2000,. No, from 2010 to like 2012,. I was unemployed. I couldn't find work. It was just crazy that I couldn't find work. So what I did was I made work, I started using my martial arts. I started teaching, doing classes, trying to do workshops and seminars, and I started making jewelry.

Speaker 2: 42:50

Bro, I was the first one To make zinger beads of semi-precious stones. Nobody was doing this. This is why I did it, because nobody was doing it. This is why I did it because nobody was doing it, because I understand the science of reflexology. You know these are linked to organs, different things. You know what I'm saying. So when you so, when you're doing so, when you're doing zikr, you know you, you're using these fingers. So now, imagine zikrin with semi-precious stones. Imagine zikrin with a quartz or lapis lazuli or any stone that's been charged, okay. Okay, you know what I'm saying. You're dealing with a high science, because the forefinger and the thumb is the pituitary and the pineal.

Speaker 2: 43:45

I used to say it all the time when the bloods do they, when the bloods do it, they sign the bloods. I did a video a long time ago on my YouTube page called gang signs are mudras. I did this before anybody. This video probably was from like 2012, 2013. Gang Signs Are Mudras and I was saying about all of the different types of signs that the gangs throw up. They're actually mudras, and mudras are used for meditation and so on and so forth. I was like yo, if the bloods, if the bloods held this, if the bloods held this, if the Bloods held this like they throw their Bloods on them, if they held this like this for about 30 minutes, they'd be so damn peaceful man they wouldn't want to shoot nobody man. You know what I'm saying. It's like in martial arts when we do connections, if we meditate hands at the dantian under the dantian thumbs, touching tips of thumbs. Touch under your hands. You know what I'm talking about, right yes, sir it's the channeling and the consistent cycling of energy.

Speaker 2: 44:53

But this is healing. Mudras are healing. These are healing, these are healing things. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Put your fingers together, yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:04

Yeah, we're going to have to build on that right there. That sounds like that sounds kind of wild right there.

Speaker 2: 45:11

Yo, yo, go check my video. You get a chance. Check my video, gang, when you get an opportunity. Look up a mudra, Look up mudras. Just look it up, You'll see all of the different mudras yourself. You'll be like, oh smack, that's a crypt sign. But it's not a crypt sign. The crypts are using mudras. They don't know it.

Speaker 1: 45:31

Wow yeah, I got to check that out now. Wow, yeah, I got to check that out now. So now, ok, boom. So now you're making the excuse my pronunciation, but dicker beads, right.

Speaker 2: 45:42

Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:44

I'm doing that. Get money. You know, all of a sudden I got a job in 2013. I picked up a job working for a community. I was, I was, I was a community activist, I mean community organizer, and it was centered around the whole green, the whole green energy thing. Yeah, remember that. Remember that time period. Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. So I was going through the community. We was talking about, you know, exchanges of energy and boosting the energy, changing it over and all that type of stuff.

Speaker 2: 46:09

I did that for a little while, got bored with it, continued to do the martial arts and all that, and then I got into, um, the mental health field co-occurring disorders, mental health, substance abuse and I was always a part of that. But I got more heavily into it and that's where I'm, that's where I'm at now, pretty much still, but right now, currently, um, I'm a federal case manager. You know, I'm saying for the, for the feds. I work in a halfway house. So when cats come, when they come home, when they get sent out of the feds or whatever, they have to come to the halfway house first and then we transition them and prepare them for to come back out in the world, man. So I'm doing a lot of therapy work up in there, fam. It's a good place to be. A lot of Muslim brothers up in there. Some gods is up in there. You know what I mean. I'm in the right place right now. I'm also an author. I wrote eight books.

Speaker 1: 47:03

You know they can find your books on.

Speaker 2: 47:06

Amazon. Yeah, I have Amazon. You can find them on Amazon. All you got to do is just type in my name and then just type author and they'll pop up.

Speaker 1: 47:17

That's peace. So now you got, you got this job, etc. Now more is science. How did you get into? You know al-islam, as they call it oh, al-islam is just.

Speaker 2: 47:26

It's just that I was never into al-islam, but I go among societies. I'm swift and changeable brother. I'm moving currents. I can go anywhere and sit amongst anyone and you will think that I'm that. That's just how I've been bred. You know what I'm saying. I've been bred to know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2: 47:49

Remember, always, show and prove, never take anything on face value. Remember that Whenever I was anywhere in my youth, I would hear a voice, just like I did it. Never take anything on face value. And remember that. That's that. That. Always yo.

Speaker 2: 47:56

Whenever I was anywhere in my youth, I would hear a voice just like, just like I did it always show, improve, never take anything on face value.

Speaker 2: 48:06

This little voice in the back of my head would say it just like that. That's why I'm doing it that way, because that's how I used to hear it all the time. So that was that allowed me to sit in so many different places and gain what I needed to gain and take the best part for myself, and so away was not useful for me, right? And then my thing was I was able to take those things and apply them and make it my own and still keep my authenticity without being something or somebody that I'm not being something or somebody that I'm not. See, the authentic man is the best man because he's the one who actually gets the accolades, and he gets the what's the word I'm looking for. He gets the honor from everybody because he's just him. He's just a good, genuine human being. You just can't be a good, genuine human being being, that's it, and you just can't be a good, genuine human being being other than yourself, because everything else is an act.

Speaker 1: 49:02

Actual fact. Yeah well, that's word, word. That's how I try to be Not try, I don't even try, I'm just myself.

Speaker 2: 49:12

You're very authentic, bro. You're very authentic man and it's a good thing. See, I tell people you want to have your own, you want to be authentic, right? I mean, that is the marker of your character, is your authenticity. Because we're individuals. You know what I'm saying. We're all here sharing an experience, but as individuals because you got to go to your home, I got to go to mine there has to be something about the character in an individual that makes him or her accepted, not because they're trying to be accepted, but wherever they go they're naturally accepted. It's because of the spirit that you have, man. Some of us just have good. It's just a natural inclination. It's called you know, know, they call it fitra. The natural fitra of man Is righteousness, okay, but I've seen some souls where the natural fitra Was evil, bro. I know Some evil people. They've been evil since they came out the womb.

Speaker 1: 50:16

Geez Me too. Right evil since they came out the womb, jeez Me too.

Speaker 2: 50:20

Right, you know what I'm saying. It's like yo, they be like yo. God made evil. You know what bothers me, brother? In our community they have these debates about things. To me that makes no difference, Right? So they're arguing about good and evil. You may have seen I spoke about it on Facebook, you may have even seen the post, but I spoke about it. My thing is this who cares if God made good or evil? Just know that God made man. Just know that you weren't about good or evil, but God made man. So if good or evil exists but God made man so, if good or evil exists, it's within man Ideas and choices and behaviors to make good or evil manifest itself or whatever it is. So you're talking about God, but God just made man. Right.

Speaker 1: 51:10

Actual fact. So that's peace. So now we took you up with Islam. Now I see you have. So that's peace. So now we took you up with Al-Islam. Now I see you have. You have the yeah, the prayer mark.

Speaker 2: 51:25

A lot of prostration. One thing I want to tell people is that when they see this, it's from prayer, it's from meditation. But remember, prostration is older than Al-Islam. Pr. Prostration is older than Islam. Prostration is older than Islam. Many, many, many societies prostrate. You know what I'm saying. Prostration, it's a science behind it. It's an exercise. Prostration is actually what they call an asana A-S-A-N-A A pose. You know what I'm saying? All of the positions of salat is yoga. It's all yoga.

Speaker 1: 52:08

Listen, making salat, I did it some years back. I just wanted to learn the religion. Some years back I took to learn the the religion some years back, so I took out and all that and I like make us a lot. You start feeling your quads, all that like you're getting stretched. You know what I mean. So like you break that down a little bit yes, yes, so, yeah, so.

Speaker 2: 52:33

So a lot is simply in asana. It's it. It has health benefits. You just mentioned some of them. Yeah, I mean, it's stretch. When you're doing the stretch, when you're doing your roof, when you're in this position, when you hear it, man, not only are you working your hamstrings and all that and your knees and all that, but you also work in your kidneys and your liver when you breathe, because the breathing is different in that position. Your liver when you breathe, because the breathing is different in that position, the same as when you're prostrating. And also, if you know arabic, each position of salat is a letter standing. This is aleph. When you stand straight up, you got it's aleph, daleth and men. Okay, aleph is A, daleth is D and mem is M, a-d-m, what's that?

Speaker 1: 53:25

Adam, adam, oh, oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 53:33

Okay, yeah, you know what I'm saying. That's another thing with, with, with, with, with the arabic language, the science of perufism, which is the science of the letters, mystical letters, the letters of the letters of the arabic alphabet are used for talismans, for invocation, for all types of magic. It's all types of magic that goes on in Islam, bro, what people call voodoo, and all that it's in Islam. You got shakes like in Senegal and all that, bro. It's deeper than what people see. I'm a mystic brother. This is why I've been through all these places, because they have mystical sides. Every religion has a mystical side and every society has mysticism attached to it, even in our own history, here on these shores, there's a thing called hoodoo. I'm strongly into hoodoo. I'm writing a book on it right now. Hoodoo People. Oh, brother, you bugging. No, I'm not bugging. I'm brother, you bugging. No, I'm not bugging.

Speaker 1: 54:37

I'm far, I'm far from bugging, so the the hoodoo uh pronunciation is different from voodoo, yeah. Now, what's the difference, though?

Speaker 2: 54:46

well, hoodoo is. Hoodoo is what's on these shores. It is a combination of what came from africa as well as what's here with from native americans, and you know what I'm saying. So it's a combination of what we created spiritually. It's a combination Like when you think about the South. I don't know where your family is from originally. They may just all be from New York period. Nah, we got South.

Speaker 1: 55:09

The South Okay.

Speaker 2: 55:10

So what part of?

Speaker 1: 55:11

the South Texas and South Carolina and Florida. Okay, cool.

Speaker 2: 55:17

So the south, uh uh, texas and uh, south carolina, south carolina and florida, okay, cool.

Speaker 2: 55:19

So south carolina, definitely any any of your family from south carolina will know what I'm talking about. Hoodoo is always found in the prayer houses. Most, most, most prayer house creatures were Hulu root workers. They were roots, root workers. You know what I'm saying. If the hospital was 50 miles away, who do you think they got? Who do you think healed the people in the village? The Hulu man.

Speaker 2: 55:55

But not only could he heal, he could do other things too, and it was the use. See, hulu is the ability to use all of the natural elements the plants, the herbs, the bees, the wasps. Why would you use a bee or a wasp? Why would you use a scorpion? Why would you use a bee or a wasp? Why would you use, why would you use a scorpion? Why would you use a lizard with venom? Why would you use things like that? Those are for protection, for warding off and doing other things with. That's also warfare. Imagine crushing those poisonous things up into a powder and blowing it in somebody's face. They call it magic, but we using science, it looked like magic. Right, it was actual science, bro. Yeah, actual science. So that's.

Speaker 2: 56:45

That's where I'm at right now. I've always my family's from mississippi, my mother and father from mississippi backwoods, and so it's in my DNA, bro. You know it was funny because when I did the DNA test right and I did one probably within the last eight or nine years is when I did it, bro. What's funny, buddy G, is that everything that I've ever done in my life that I participated in it's in my DNA, literally. Remember I told you about Shanti Imani, the African dance troupe? Is there, the Yoruba African dance troupe? So I get my DNA back. I'm Yoruba and Igbo.

Speaker 1: 57:31

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2: 57:34

Right, I get another genome test done and it's Moorish and Yoruba, my oldest ancient societies Moorish, yoruba and Kemetic. It didn't say Kemetic, it gave the name of something Egyptian, some type of name, I don't remember. But the point is is that everything that I touched or tied to is in my DNA? Hoodoo, voodoo, I studied voodoo, I studied Santaria, I studied Palo, I studied Candomblé. Study all of those systems as you should. You know what I'm saying. You should touch everything you can and gain something from it. You never know when you're going to need it. You never know who you're up against. You never know what a person is thinking. The most powerful weapon a person has is thought. You can think someone out of existence. You can think someone out of existence.

Speaker 1: 58:42

Man, I got a story, I got some stories about that man. I'm sure you do, I'm sure you do, I'm sure you do. I know At one point I had some evil eyes on me and shit just started happening Like deer were jumping out of nowhere. I'm getting in a car accident Like yo. Yeah, People know the hate that this person had for me was so deep. You get what.

Speaker 2: 59:14

I'm saying, bro, it happened to me numerous times. I had brothers that I thought was my brothers. I'm working, remember, I told you I was working at the Southwest Community Center, you know, and I had a booth area where my computer was my desk and everything, and right next to my desk is a radiator like a little radiator along the wall. So I'm sitting at my desk one day and something just said yo, look down. I looked down at the radiator and I saw some white paper inside the radiator.

Speaker 2: 59:42

I'm like what the fuck is this? So I reach in and I'm pulling it out, I open it up and it's a talisman. It's a Zodiac talisman with my birth date in it and a bunch of planetary signs in different houses with oppositions, both in oppositions and everything. So I took it I say nothing, I know who did it. I took it to the cred, took it to a particular area, put a black candle on top of it, wrote the person's name on the side of the candle, put a black candle on top of it, wrote the person's name on the side of the candle, burnt the candle, took the paper, wrapped it up in black thread and buried. That shit, old boy, ain't been the same.

Speaker 1: 1:00:30

Hmm, yeah, we got to build on that. We got to build on that. Yo, on that, note, note, brother, thank you for coming out this evening.

Speaker 1: 1:00:39

really appreciate you, man that was a solid, solid hour build right there very thorough. Really appreciate you. You gotta come back up. You gotta come back up. Whenever you ready, let me know. Thank you for everybody in the chat. Really appreciate y'all for checking in and we are out of here peace. Thank you for everybody in the chat. Really appreciate y'all for checking in and we are out of here Peace.