Syracuse New York History- Sheik El

A deep dive into Syracuse's cultural history reveals a vibrant tapestry of hip-hop, martial arts, and community consciousness from the 1970s through the 1990s. Sheikh Denim L shares his firsthand experiences growing up in this upstate New York city, highlighting its unique cultural identity beyond the shadow of NYC's five boroughs.

• 1970s Syracuse featured strong Black pride influences with red, black and green aesthetics and widespread martial arts practice
• Community centers like Dunbar Center and Southwest Community Center served as cultural hubs for youth development
• Hip-hop culture exploded in the 1980s with numerous breakdance crews battling at venues like the Sportsarama skating rink
• Local legends included Vincent Grace "The Black Samurai," DJs Grand G and Rapski, and crews like Puma Nation and CBS
• The crack era transformed community dynamics, creating economic opportunities amid increasing social challenges
• Various consciousness movements including 5% Nation and Moorish Science provided alternative frameworks for youth
• Syracuse developed its own distinct cultural identity while maintaining connections to broader New York culture
• Upstate New York offers a different energy and pace than NYC while fostering its own rich cultural traditions

Come visit us at NYP Platform where we showcase the diverse cultural expressions throughout New York State beyond the five boroughs.

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• 21:52 (Cont.) Syracuse New York History- Sheik El

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:13

what's going on. Everybody out there is ron brown lmt, the people's fitness professional. I will have the co-host co-host on monday. You already know. Co-host Monday, monday, tuesday, wednesday. We're in the building. Today is just me and brother Sheik Denim L. Denim L, denim L. You know I saw one of the guards say something about say something under a video of yours. Like you know a video I put out there and he said you know, I didn't know that some of the gods knew you and all that. That's peace right there. That's peace right there. You know, I don't know how deep your history. Well, you told me last time about your history and things like that, but I don't know, I didn't know it went that deep, like with people knowing you and all this type of stuff. I'm thinking like just maybe the Moors might know you. But nah, it looked like, seemed like everybody know who you are. You know what I mean. So you know that's peace. That's peace how you doing, brother.

Speaker 2: 1:16

All is well, my brother, I'm good man, you know. Maintaining that's all Just chilling it's a Cincinnati. Friday. I'm just lounging. Right now I was watching a Kung Fu flick Snake in the Monkey Shadow, Snake in the Eagle Shadow. You know what I'm saying? Just lounging, that's all I do.

Speaker 1: 1:34

That's peace. So today we're going into Syracuse. Do you hear anything in the background right now, in your background?

Speaker 2: 1:40

Yeah, I don't hear nothing.

Speaker 1: 1:42

Alright, good it. Yeah, I don't hear nothing. All right, good, all right, it might be me.

Speaker 2: 1:45

I got to look my TV's on, but it's not, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:47

No, I can't. I can't really hear that. We're talking about Syracuse history today, and the reason why I wanted to talk about this is because, like you know, I just want to give people a little brief history, and you know the idea of the NYP platform. The NYP platform is a plethora of different things. One of them is we wanted to really showcase what was going on inside of New York State, because everyone talks about the five boroughs, but me now living upstate, now, like I moved outside of the five boroughs and I live upstate now, this is really not upstate, but to the people from the city they call this upstate, it's a whole different world up here.

Speaker 1: 2:33

You know what I'm saying and you know I'm like man, I want to show the different parts of New York. So eventually we want to try to get out there, to these different places in New York and kind of like show the spots today, today, with, with, uh, the sheet we're going to build on, uh, syracuse history and uh, you know, um, that's where you're from. So you know, let's, let's take it away. Let's uh go with the first question what is Syracuse history? You know, like, let's start with his early beginnings. I don't know if you know the history about that.

Speaker 2: 3:11

Well, I mean, you know everything has a history. I mean you know everything has a history. When you, when you ask that question, it has to be minimized in a way to to my time period. In a sense, I was born in 1968, you know what I'm saying in Syracuse, new York. Now I can go from there. You know what I'm saying, from my birth. I mean I can go from there.

Speaker 2: 3:35

But in that regards, the place called Syracuse, if not mistaken, it was established in the 18th century, ok, incorporated, something like that. You know what I mean. The 18th century, the 1700s, something like that. One of the, you know, new York, was a part of the 13 colonies, the original 13 colonies. It was called New Amsterdam, or something like that. I mean. So that's a whole, nother story. But Chad.

Speaker 2: 4:01

As far as I'm concerned, 1968, I was born upstate New York, syracuse, new York, was a plethora of culture. I was born in 68, grew up in the seventies, came of age in the eighties, you understand. So my first, my first 12 years of life, um was spent through the seventies, um, maybe my first 10 years of life, cause I turned 12, I turned 12 years old in 1980, so, um, so from 68 to 1980, oh, it was just everything. Everything was was red, black and green afros. Everybody was doing martial arts. That's how I got into martial arts because everybody, every, every, every, every, every neighborhood was doing karate. Every neighborhood was doing karate. Castles walking around in geese Kung fu, the kung fu joints, the full outfits. The Black Panther movement was pretty strong up here. The Nation of Islam was pretty strong up here. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad Nation of Islam was pretty strong in the 70s. Also, there was in the late my bad.

Speaker 2: 5:13

The late Going into the late 70s. There was a lot of police situations going on between the mid into the late 70s, going into the early 80s in Syracuse. A lot of, a lot of run-ins with police, with different, with different brothers and sisters in the community. So you know we had lost a couple of soldiers, brother Jeremiah Mitchell, who got murdered by the police. Okay, real quick.

Speaker 1: 5:42

I don't mean to cut you off and I'm paying attention. I just wanted to repost this video to make sure everybody is viewing it. So real quick. So we're talking about Syracuse, we're talking about the beginnings you mentioned. Everyone was like red, black and green out right.

Speaker 2: 6:01

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:03

Apples, red, black and green, right out, right, yeah, yeah, afros, black and green. Now, who brought that into the? Because I always know something about history there's always someone with a spark, someone always, you know, to lead the spark, to lead the charge. You know it'll be one, two people that'll come with the teachings and now the whole neighborhood, you know, is doing it. So was it like so was it like a center or something like that?

Speaker 2: 6:30

no, it was, yeah, yeah. Well, there was a center we had. We had we had the Dunbar Center, which was in the bricks, and then we had the Southwest Community Center. You know I'm saying but, um, prior to that, prior to the centers, um, I can't tell you much because I was born in 68. But what I can tell you is that when I was a child, there was brothers and sisters who already had that view. We had Harambe. There was different quote unquote pro-black organizations. You had the Caribbean brothers and sisters who was doing their own thing. You know what I'm saying? My cousin was a roster. It was just a plethora of culture.

Speaker 2: 7:05

Man, I got syracuse university. You got over 23, 24, 25, 000 people going to that college. You know saying different nationalities coming in and out of the school all the time. You know I'm saying so it was, it was just that's what it was. A lot of times the university people wouldn't even come down into the city because they're giving instruction not to mess with the people in the community. You know I mean, but there was, there was, there were those who did.

Speaker 2: 7:27

You know I mean brother aj, you know, you may know, you may know brother aj tiemba, who has a harlem liberation school. You know I'm saying aka. His name was when he was going to syracuse university. His name was put in stiff but now his name is aj tiemba. He has the liberation school in harlem. That that's my man. He was around. He can give you some history as well about Syracuse because he went to the university and he was the president of the Black Student Union. We ran into each other around 1989 when I came out of the military. From 1980 on up it was just all hip-hop, all culture. Y'all got to acknowledge yourself in 1980. Breakdance G gave you that.

Speaker 2: 8:10

Yeah, my man, yeah, g G hit me off. G gave me Knowledge, yourself gave me the lessons and I continued to maintain and study Breakdance and the battles. It was so many crews, man. You had Puma Nation. You had KOC crew. You had Southsideside rockers. You had um mcnasty crew. You had um dj gloves. You, it was just deep freeze and seas. It was just so many crews. Man with kiba and scratch, it was just so many crews. It was a female crew I forgot their names the poison ladiesison Ladies. It was just a thousand crews.

Speaker 2: 8:45

Everything was the culture period. As far as dress code is concerned, our dress code was a combination of what we were seeing coming out of New York on videos, little things you know, pick up things like the glasses and gazelles or something like that. But our dress code we kind of created our own thing. I was wearing camouflage before anybody was, before coogee rat, before anybody was wearing camouflage. I was wearing it as a style in the night in the eighth and ninth, in the eighth and ninth grade, because it was our martial arts. It was, it was our. It was our, it was our combat uniforms. It was camouflage. I started wearing it to school. Next thing, you know the hands and everything I did. I did I was wearing camouflage and people thought I was bugged out, but then it became a thing by the 90s everybody was camouflaged. By that time I had already done it, so I was doing something else.

Speaker 2: 9:34

By that time, right I'm saying so, you know, my thing was always being different, being authentic, because I didn't really have um, I didn't have the money like G and them had. They had that money to do certain things, to buy certain clothes. So the way I rock, I put my things together just in a different way, man, you know what I mean. I merged things, I merged culture with martial styles. You know, 5% influence in a, you know, in a dress code. You know what I'm saying. Like I just did my own thing. You know what I'm saying. And that's how it was, man.

Speaker 2: 10:14

We had a lot of battles, man, a lot of, you know, a lot of conflicts. A lot of things was caught in battles. But by 83, 84, by the time I got out of high school, which was 86, I graduated in battles. But by 83, 84, by the time I got out of high school, which was 86, I graduated in 86, the dope gang was already in, the crack gang wasn't. It was cold. That was the old heads. I think the first millionaire I ever saw in Syracuse was a kid named Kev Givens. Kev Givens was like the first millionaire, you know what I'm saying. Then there was other millionaires. These was old heads, you know what I'm saying. And then, like by, I went to the military in 86, came home in 89, got kicked out in 89, came back crackers in full swing, and it was youngsters on the block now, right, right now, let's let's unpack a lot of stuff now.

Speaker 1: 11:11

So we're going to start from. We're going to start from knowledge you was talking about, you know, black pride, uh, red, black and green, and then you went into. Everybody was just like martial arts, stout, right, for lack of a term. So now, who brought, who were like the top martial artists of that era, like historical kind of like martial arts hall of fame?

Speaker 2: 11:35

yeah, in the town you had you had man, you had your brother. Rest in peace. You could look him up. His name is Vincent Grace. We called him the Black Samurai. He was an Aido master, and there was also his instructor, which was Grandmaster Greg Tierney. You also have my teacher, which was Mfundishi Edward Halee Fox.

Speaker 1: 12:01

Wait, wait, Mfundishi. Okay, we're not talking about the same person. Mfundishi is a title.

Speaker 2: 12:10

I'm an Mfundishi. My school was called Chiwushu Shule. Shule is an African word for school. It was a combination of Northern Shaolin and Kupi Gani Ngumi, which is an African fighting art, and the brother Oso, tayari Cassell, used to come to our school all the time. I don't know if you know who Tayari Cassell is, look him up. Okay, he used to come to our school all the time. Then you had another brother named Frankie Mitchell. Frankie Mitchell had a school called the Spinning Cobras.

Speaker 2: 12:45

The Spinning Cobras was our arch nemesis. We used to battle back and forth with them, tournaments outside in the street fights. That's what we did. That's karate days, man. That's just what I was. We also had battles. We popped, breakdanced all that man.

Speaker 2: 13:08

Then again the crack came. Bro. Crack changed the game. We went from breakdancing on corners to hustling on corners. The transition. The transition was crazy because you got to think about the 80s. You got to think about what they call Reaganomics. Poverty hit hard in certain ways and what they did was they made cocaine, which is a quote, unquote a white man, $2 rock. They made it accessible. So by doing that, that created a whole other phenomenon Within our communities. As you know, we're still recovering from the 80s Because of that era Is where the mental health Things began, after the first generation Of crack. Then we began to see an era of mental health.

Speaker 2: 14:07

I told my partner on his porch in 1991, his cat was coming down the block. We used to sell out this house. We used to hustle out this house, 327 West Lafayette. We had a studio in it, but we used to get money out of it as well. I told one of my partners. I said yo, I'm telling you, man, people bugged out, man, but it's going to get worse. Within 20 years we're going to have an epidemic. He laughed at me. Do you know today? He said yo, man, how did you see that shit 25 years ago? Man, when you said that shit on the porch, I was like what you talking, talking about? I totally forgot about it. He said yo, you called this shit, bro, I can see, before something get good, it gotta get worse.

Speaker 2: 14:54

When you got a bunch of children outside hustling, moving packs and getting money, you know what I'm saying. 14, 15, 16, of course, addiction and other things is going to come to play, because it's child on child, and who really has wisdom? I can't teach you at 15 nothing at 15, we'll be going to teach each other except what we perceive to know and understand as, whatever that may be. So if one is swifter than the other, just in thought process, I can use the other 15-year-old to my advantage if I'm swift like that and in that era a lot of youngsters were swift like that because they didn't want the consequences. They wasn't really built for the life they was living. Man 12 years, you're not built for that shit. You know what I'm saying? You're not. You're not built for it, but you put it in an environment that's conducive for that Idea. Right?

Speaker 2: 15:58

So we know and understand that poverty is by design, right? So if poverty is by design, there are certain things that one must do in order to make the poverty work. We want an outcome. Whenever we do something, there's an outcome, right? So my father had a bar from 1989 to 2016 in Syracuse, new York, called B&B Lounge. It's a legendary bar and he had a bar on that block that we was on, with five or six other bars all the way down the block, another street across South Salina Street, all clubs and bars. This was the south side of Syracuse, which at one point in time, was all ran by Asiatic people prior to what Integration.

Speaker 1: 16:49

Oh integration.

Speaker 2: 16:51

Right, and even after integration. But by that time, when segregation kicked in, the businesses were still there. Then the Arabs came in and bought out the stores and other things and so on and so forth, right. So now we have a community where you have foreigners and the economics is all you have foreign foreigners and in the economics is all going to the foreigners and the politics is removing certain things out of the community, because there's no need for night gym anymore. There's no need to have a program that's designed for the kids, that after school to play in the gym or to do something to keep them off the streets between the hours of four to eight o'clock at night. They don't need that, no more. That's the reason. Oh, we're going to take away cedar, the cedar program, which is job employment for you for the summer. We're going to take that program away because that money can be used and placed somewhere else. Oh yeah, we're going. We're going to remove this as well, selectively.

Speaker 2: 17:44

Over a 15-year period, I watched my community began to be decimated by politics. I watched businesses destroy themselves and be removed by politics Intentional politics, right. You can't recover from that. This is why I always say that integration was the worst thing that happened to us and, if anything, if we are able to get back whatever we once had, we have to separate, we have to.

Speaker 2: 18:14

We can do things as individuals within this system. We can even do things as groups within the system, as a collective, but it's going to get to some point where something is going to get in the way. Somewhere we're going to have to answer to something or someone. Something is going to get in the way instead of we're going to have to answer to something or someone. Something is going to get in the way instead of just how we had it before segregation, where we didn't answer to nobody. We just did our own thing and we built economies. You know what I'm saying? 19 to 20 different riots and massacres of black communities between 1878 and 1923. You know what I mean. So I'm getting off track, but that's how I do it.

Speaker 1: 18:54

No, no, no, no.

Speaker 2: 18:54

Keep cooking, keep cooking, keep cooking. You know what I'm saying. So, when you think about it, this is the effects of what happened in our community. So the decimation of the community created the desire and the need for cats, for kids, to hustle. In a sense, it created the environment for it. They wasn't understanding that the environment was going to feed on them. You understand what I'm saying? The environment is vampiric in a sense. They'll open up the door for you to do these things. You can get things, but in the process you're going to have to sacrifice something because of what you can gain from it and the possibilities of what could occur if you actually took your wealth from that particular lifestyle and did something with it constructively, like every other nationality has done.

Speaker 2: 19:46

When they have came to these shores by immigration the Italians, the Jews, the Irish they all had some form of an underground or an under shadow that put them on the forefront. That first generation did the dirty work and put their children through college, and their children became lawyers and doctors to protect the very thing, the very entity that put them through college or whatever. You see what I mean. So it's very hard for us to maintain certain things right. So because why? Because we find comfort. We find comfort in materialism, but that's a condition in us. We've been conditioned for that right and we find comfort in it. So the things that we chase the most are the things that shine and bling, because it looks good to the to the eye, but those things have no bearing on your spirit and your integrity.

Speaker 2: 20:43

When it's all said and done and that's something that I learned throughout the years being here, being home and living abroad you know, the 80s got strong because the crack game came in and you had little. You had brothers and sisters running around, youngsters who are now getting a lot of money, we had young millionaires, we had cats. You know we there's stories to tell. You know saying there's stories to tell and we had it. And the thing is, is that you know what I'm saying? There's stories to tell and we had it. And the thing is is that we Syracuse, new York, is an experimental, is an experimental state.

Speaker 2: 22:04

Some of the first experiments was held here. Matter of fact, a place called Kennedy Square and a place called Cherry Hill, but specifically Kennedy Square was an experiment, and what I mean by that was the way that the project was built and the way it was designed. It was designed under a West Coast paradigm, it was. It was designed to be in the West Coast. The way it was made, it wasn't an Eastern thing, it was a design. And the way it was designed, the infrastructure of it, going in and out of it, and so on and so forth. Do you ever notice that in every inner city that whenever you get close to a quote-unquote a project or a housing environment, there's a quick way onto a highway and a quick way off the highway?

Speaker 1: 22:35

bro, wow, I never. You know, I know from the projects I'm from. The highway is right there. Of course it is. I never noticed that man, like I never really thought man Like I never really thought about it. I noticed it but I never really thought about it like that you got to think about these things, because these things are not.

Speaker 2: 22:52

These things are designed on purpose this way Quickest way in, quickest way out, the Army, the quickest way the National Guard can come in, the quickest way they can get out, the quickest way that they can come, the quickest way they can get out. They designed these things a way on purpose, right In that situation. It's the same thing with us in Syracuse. We're a smaller place, but it's still the same designs. It's still the same paradigm, it's still the same situation smaller place, environment and structure is different. Because it's Smaller place, environment and structure is different because it's not a concrete jungle. We got trees, the sidewalks got grass. You know what I'm saying. You look like you're in a peaceful place and that's how people get put to sleep. I'm going to tell you, man Uncasa used to come hang with me all the time that man Uncasa got tight.

Speaker 1: 23:46

He used to come through here. Okay, uncasa from Harlem, yeah, I remember him.

Speaker 2: 23:55

That's my man with the glasses.

Speaker 1: 23:56

Yeah, he from 151st or something over there.

Speaker 2: 23:59

Yeah that's my man. I gave him his first Circle 7. Oh wow, a lot of people from the city used to run through Syracuse and thought they could just run through Syracuse and got ran out. They got ran out. You know what I mean. We're a little upstate town, but if you go into the prison system and ask about upstate cats, it's a different story. We're different, always been's a different story. We different, always been. Everybody's different in New York State. We are New York, but every state, every city got its own expression of New York, like we express New York. But you know what it's New York though. You know what I'm saying. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 24:43

I love being from upstate New York. I love to go to New York and travel and walk around and hang out and go build the cars, go to Queenwood. I love it. But I also love upstate and I love when cats from the city come upstate. They be like yo, god damn like yo. They love it. They be like yo. I should move up here. It's such a change from the environment. The frequency, the vibration is different. It ain't fast. You can slow down and breathe breathe a little bit, you could breathe a little bit.

Speaker 2: 25:13

You know what I mean. So that's the beautiful thing about upstate is that you can slow down. But even when you slowing down, shit is fast. You know what I mean. That's a fact. Depending on the circle you in, slowing down, shit is fast. You know what I mean. That's a fact. Depending on the circle you in or the company you keep, it can be fast or slow. You know God, we move in swift and tangible currents. Indeed, you see what I'm saying, we can cause rain, snow and earthquakes, not just physically, but we can also cause them mentally and emotionally. You see what I'm saying. So our thing is our thing.

Speaker 2: 25:51

You know, here in Syracuse, man, we, we, just we always did our own thing, man, in regards to music, in regards to gear, in regards to language, we, even we, even I mean everybody got their own tongue, everybody got their own, their own code, their own language. You know, I'm saying you know their own little slang. Everybody got it, you know, and it's just what it is, man. I mean. It's so much history here, man, it's drug history. Here, man, you know, it's martial arts history here, man, like every place, man, you know, I've been here. I've been fortunate enough to live in other parts of new york. I lived in albany, I lived in the law of born for a little while. You know, totally different from syracuse man, totally different, I'm saying totally different feel. Totally, totally different. Feel I've lived in. I lived in geneva, new york. I've lived in Auburn. I've lived all through upstate New York because it's beautiful. Upstate New York is beautiful Like spring, summer travel, beautiful man Trails, hiking, all that crazy shit is dope.

Speaker 1: 26:57

Yeah, it is, it's dope.

Speaker 1: 27:01

I want to ask you about this. Let's unpack that. We don't got to go too deep into it but unfortunately is a part of the culture. Now, the drug scene, right, you know, like from where I'm from, we used to see like the dealers, you know like outpouring them, cats, like you know popping willies and and shit like that, like I was a kid but I knew what was going on. You know what I'm saying. So, like you know from Harlem, you know you got the. You know the Alpos, the Rich Porters, the AZ, you know things like that. You know that history. So what's the Alpos and the AZs and all of that in Syracuse.

Speaker 2: 27:49

Man. I don't know if they want me to say their names, man, they all, we all. Now you know it don't really matter now, but G was one of them. G was one of them cats. You know what I'm saying. You had my man, dad Bye, birdie, it was a bunch of them man. Yo, lamie, it was a bunch of them. Lamar, it was a bunch of them, man, everybody was getting money. Every side of town had two or three cats. Who was just getting money and holding the whole town down, like Tyrone Hines.

Speaker 1: 28:21

You know what I'm saying, like Hines, like Hines from the 90s now, before you go deep into the names, like you keep dropping them. Now, I just wanted to get this real quick before you go. You mentioned the south side of Syracuse, so there's a south side, there's a north side, there's a west side.

Speaker 2: 28:41

The west side. Indeed, the west side is predominantly Latino. They always got kingpins. The West Side is Syracuse. You would never know what happened on the West Side because everything happens inside of it and it's just kept there. You know what I'm saying. The East Side is not the same as it used to be. Syracuse has had a big influx of immigrants that have moved in within the last 20 years. It has also changed the environment. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 29:11

Some of the cats from Like I was telling you, like Tyrone, tyrone Hines he's back home now, but Hines ran 99 pounds of cocaine through Syracuse. You know what I mean. Like the Brick City gang and the Bricks and all that man. Then you had the cats on the south side. Everybody was just getting money man, mosky, everybody man.

Speaker 2: 29:34

Syracuse was a get-money town. Every block, every side was getting money. It wasn't really even conflict at that time. Nobody was really even beefing, because you had the old heads was getting money and it wasn't really even conflict at that time. Nobody was really even beefing because you had the old heads was getting money. You had the younger generation getting money and the old heads was working with the youngsters and the youngsters was working with the old. It was just crazy for a minute, man. It was crazy, man, because a lot of the older cats they was only old by seven to eight years over some of us, and then they were a little older to the younger cats. So they was taking the younger cats and they was schooling them, some of them, and then some of them some of the younger cats was robbing them.

Speaker 2: 30:14

A lot of robberies was going on. A lot of cats got stuck up. A lot of that. A lot of stick-ups all the time in the park, a lot at the bars. A lot of stick-ups was going on. It was the 80s.

Speaker 1: 30:28

Was the murders the same as Harlem and the Bronx and all of that Murder?

Speaker 2: 30:35

It was murders. It was murders, definitely. Yeah, it was murders. I could talk about some of those things. I'll tell you a story. It was this kid man had a conflict. He just came home himself. He just came home. He did like 25, almost 30. He just came home, his mom was in a bar and he got a phone call that somebody disrespected his mother. So he basically, he basically Got on the roof and hit a cat from about 25 feet out from the roof at a store walking in the store.

Speaker 1: 31:27

Sniper yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:28

Sniper. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, a couple cats. I remember was in Kirk Park and my man got stabbed to death. You know what I'm saying. Like it was just a lot of you know a lot of things went on, man, but circus is a small place. You know what I'm saying. It's not like those stories ain't gonna make the news like like the out, it ain't gonna. It ain't gonna be like those things. You know what I'm saying, because the time was so small and you had to be there.

Speaker 2: 31:56

One thing about this place is that we don't really, we don't really gratify that. You know what I'm saying. Some cats will tell their stories, and you know what I mean. It's like, yeah, it happened. You know what I'm saying and it is what it is, but it ain't something that we just, when we meet up, we talk about it. Like yo remember when we met up, we don't discuss none of those things. You know what I'm saying. We just talk, don't discuss none of those things. You know I'm saying we just talk. We talk about we, we, we do talk about the culture, we talk about hip-hop and all that back when we was youngsters.

Speaker 1: 32:30

But we don't ever, we don't ever go into the other things, though right right, right right, because that, that, that, that subject, it gets a little tricky.

Speaker 2: 32:38

So yeah, indeed, and then you got babies around, you got children around, you know I'm saying you got grandchildren around. You know, it's just certain things. You know they're gonna find out, like my son right now. He called me last night. He's like your dad. He was like yo man, he's like dad dad. I said. I started laughing. What you done heard. Now he said yo, man, yo, the more, the older I'm getting, I'm just hearing more stuff about you. He's like yo, you was that dude man. You know everybody, everybody know you. He said how come you didn't tell me this stuff? I said it's nothing to tell you, man, I'm not proud. You know, it's nothing to tell you. You know the street's going to tell you. You look just like me, you old enough, you, outside, somebody's going to say yo, such and such a dad, you look, you know, and they're going to tell you their experience with me. That's what's going to happen. He's like, yeah, it's been happening all it's happening too much. But I'm digging it though. I'm like it's just going to happen, man, it's just what it is. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 33:33

Yeah, I've been around, I've done a lot of things. I was known in my community as they called me the Malcolm X or the was always dropping jewels and I was always exposing a fraud or I was always telling the truth. That was my thing. They would come get me. Yo go get the guard man. This dude just came. Dude, it was a cat named Dirty Rob. Did I tell you about Dirty Rob? I?

Speaker 1: 33:56

don't remember.

Speaker 2: 33:58

Okay, so it was this cat named Dirty Rob. Right, dirty Rob had just came home from the justice Walking around talking about he was 5% that he was gone. So my man, d D Carter, was like yo, he called me on the phone. He's like yo, he's like yo, dirty Rob just came home, man. He just came home. You know what I'm saying. He went around talking about you know he gone. Yo come holler at him let's see if he gone for real. I said all right, went down. You know many months, met up behind the school. I'm like peace, god. He's like yo, peace, peace. He's like, oh, yo ain't seen you in a long time. How you been. I'm like what's today's degree, what I said, what's today's degree? I said okay, you know what, let's start again. What's today's mathematics? Make it easy for you. And I started laughing. I said no, cypher, and I just went in and D was like I told you Dirty. I told you Dirty Rob, this is the real God right here. Dirty Rob, this is the real God.

Speaker 2: 34:52

We never saw Dirty Rob again after that day. Dirty Rob just retired. He put his flag down, god, he put the flag down. He retired man. He went into retirement. Man down, he retired man. He went into retirement man. We didn't see him no more. Man. Smart work. My word is gone. We didn't see Dirty Rob for about four, five years man, that's crazy.

Speaker 1: 35:16

So now the gangster history we kind of like went over, like lightly. We went over the martial arts history a little bit. Now the Breaker Cruise the lightly. We went over the martial arts history a little bit. Um, now the breaker cruise, oh yeah, he cruise, the dopest dj out there. What's up with the, the game you know like before, uh, uh, uh, the bloods. They had zulu, you know we. And then before zulu we had theades. I don't know if you saw the Spades the other day. Right, what were the gangs before? You know, the 90s, the hip-hop there was no gangs.

Speaker 2: 35:52

Syracuse didn't have any gangs, brother. Well, we all know online in the 70s, the brothers who were older than me when I was coming, I remember one gang. I do remember a gang, one gang, and they had shit on lock and the name of this gang was called you ready, the Corleones, After the motherfucking Godfather B, the Corleones. That was their name, the Corleones. And then in the 80s well, no, actually, because it's another street set called the 10th the 10th, but the origin of their name. The young generation don't even know the origin of their name. I had to tell them the origin of their name the 10thth or 110.

Speaker 2: 36:48

There is no 110 block in syracuse, new york. There's no street with numbers. You know I'm saying by the physical number. You got you got seventh avenue. You got you know fourth avenue, written number, nothing, but not by number, physical number. So 110th was actually named that they took that name from a movie called Across 110th Street. That's where the name 110 came from. The street set in the hood, the street set called the Boot Camp Click in the late 80s. You know where that came from. Yeah, right, right. And then you had the brighton brigade, which was another late 80s street crew. You know I'm saying, and that came from, the bright brigade came from when special ed said um, I got the army brigade. They couldn't call me, I got the army brigade.

Speaker 2: 37:45

Remember that yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what, that's what. So one thing about, one thing about syracuse is is that there's no originality in some of the thought process, the names taken from television and so on and so forth. So this is this tells you kind of what the environment was like in that era. It wasn't nothing really major happening in the streets, but shit was happening in the streets, but not some super major shit, but it was a lot of shit going on. There was drug selling going on, there was all types of shit going on, but the way it was being done wasn't really being seen, and just the police department like. That's a whole other story in itself too.

Speaker 1: 38:33

I want to get into that Now. You told us about some of the gangs you know and everything like that.

Speaker 2: 38:43

Let me give you the Illest DJ, the Illest DJ in my era. Two of the illest DJs in my era was Grand G man and another cat named Rapski, dj Rapski. The illest MCs in my era was me. Ishmael Bay was nice too. Shar Bey was nice too. Sharif was nice too. Oh really.

Speaker 1: 39:11

Really kicking it like that. Yeah, Sharif was nice. No, I mean both of them, both Ishmael and.

Speaker 2: 39:17

Sharif. Ishmael had a crew called 7-0-D. You know what I'm saying. Me and Is and Ish came up together. We was rhyming at 11 and 12 years old. We came up together. We met Sharif. Later we came in. Ish is like that's my brother from another mom. You know what I mean. Mcs I was one of the illest. Nobody was really messing with my vocabulary. I was way ahead of myself, Way ahead of myself, Way, way ahead of myself.

Speaker 1: 39:51

So there were no breakout acts like that went commercial from Sarah King.

Speaker 2: 39:56

Yep, one act, one act and they could have went really, really big. Matter of fact, if you punch it in your joint right now, the name of the crew was called. I'm going to spell it out for you Makeba, m-a-k-e-b-a and Scratch Like DJ Scratch, makeba and Scratch.

Speaker 1: 40:19

No-transcript it might pop right up yeah, right out yeah turn it on.

Speaker 2: 40:26

Why? Why we talk with turn it on and look at it yeah, I don't.

Speaker 1: 40:29

I just don't want to get you know copyright and all that you know, because you ain't got it, don't show it on the screen.

Speaker 2: 40:34

I just want you to look at it. I want you to see that you're looking at kirk park. You're looking at the southwest community center in these scenes. When they're inside, that's the center, that's the southwest community center in these scenes. When they're inside, that's the center, that's the southwest community center on the south side of syracuse. When you see them outside, when a bunch of them outside, that's kirk park. That's the south side. That's kirk park. That's where all the mc battles went down kirk park and thornton park on the east side. You understand what I mean. So you looking at syracuse in its heights. This is the eight. This is what this is what our town looked like. This is the culture and this is what it really was. B. All the time, all the time like this. All the damn time, all the time, bruh.

Speaker 1: 41:16

Like a party all day.

Speaker 2: 41:19

All day. This is what my city looked like in the 80s. Man, all the time, because we lived hip-hop 24 hours a day. You get off the bus it's a battle. It's a battle on a bus stop, a breakdance battle, a rhyme battle. You meet up in school in the back. It's a battle in the gym, everywhere. It was just like that. Demcats, red Alert had them, red Alert had them. Boys. Man Scratch fucked it up. The DJ, dj Scratch messed that up for them. He went gospel.

Speaker 1: 41:48

Okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 41:49

Yeah, he went, gospel man.

Speaker 1: 41:51

Now. So there are no acts like, because when I think about New York and hip-hop acts, of course the city, we already know about the city. We know it's probably enough. So we got 38 Special Wizzy from Rochester, right.

Speaker 2: 42:07

Yeah, he got, Syracuse got. You know, you've heard of the Stove God.

Speaker 1: 42:12

The Stove God.

Speaker 2: 42:13

Yeah, stove God, they call him. He be with. I think he be with. They call him Stone Stove God. His name is Cooks, you look him up. He had a deal with Buster Rhymes. He's from Syracuse too, the store guard.

Speaker 1: 42:30

So no acts really popped from Syracuse yet Nah.

Speaker 2: 42:35

Not Grammy pop, none of that type of stuff. But Syracuse got. Syracuse is coming. Man, their time is coming. It's a lot of MCs here B their time is coming. They just ain't got the right. Their time is coming. I got a cat called the Reaper. He a beast. He's on my Facebook page. I don't put a video or two of his up. Kid's a beast, man, monster, monster, grimy. His LP is released the 14th of this month. Told to be released, the whole album.

Speaker 1: 43:12

You got a whole album dropping eventually, I want to be able to showcase different acts from New York, new York, this whole state. We need to find a way to highlight the whole state. New York state is a motown.

Speaker 2: 43:25

Wait to happen state like we need to like find a way to highlight the whole state, the whole state new york, new york. New york state is a motown man. Wait to happen, man indeed, indeed.

Speaker 1: 43:30

So now, now, you told me about the hip-hop crews and things like that. Um, now, as far as the culture is concerned, and not only hip-hop, you talked about the so-called hispanics and things like that. What particular hispanics are out there and when did they come?

Speaker 2: 43:55

yeah, it's a lot of power rules, um, a lot of power rules. You know I'm saying cubans, um, now we got a lot of Guatemalan and Mexicans and things of that nature. It's predominantly Puerto Rican and Cuban, pretty much Dominican as well. They do their thing. I used to swing on the west side a lot just make some money over there. Back in the days my man still got a house over there, one of my brothers, the god gill, he got a spot over there. You know, gill, about 62 years old now, you know I'm saying, but he's been, he wanted to.

Speaker 2: 44:36

He's one of the old, oldest weed dealers in the town. He's been selling weed probably for about, oh man, about 40, some years. Man, yeah, I mean, that's what he do, that's his thing, him. And it's another cat named sweet james. Sweet james is a senior, he's an elder. I think he may have passed away, but sweet james is one of the ones him and his sister they had. They had some dad, sweet james, he used to get it. Man, sweet james was a bad dude man. He was a. He was every drug dealer's hero because he retired. He never, he never, he never. He retired man, he never, you know, I mean, he never got caught up, but he always had james sweet james was smart, I painted his crib, I painted his whole house. Man, I learned so much from painting his house just from watching the way he moved, man, you know, I mean, um, he never got tied up in nothing, but he, he had, he had, he had Chiba man, a whole bunch of it for years now.

Speaker 1: 45:28

I want to just say peace to the Wise Dome TV peace peace, peace, peace, peace of the God. Peace of the God. Check out his channel. Watch his channel. Subscribe to that channel right there.

Speaker 2: 45:42

Indeed, his channel was hot. He had me on one day too as well. He had me on one day too as well. He had me on too. You know what I mean. So yeah, god, his joint is on fire. Dope, dope, dope program Now.

Speaker 1: 45:54

Now we spoke about the Hispanics, now let's talk about the breaking crews. I want to talk about the breaking crews the hip-hop, the rap, the MC, the breaking crews.

Speaker 2: 46:06

Well, you know, you had Can't Be Stopped the CBS crew. You had the CBS crew, can't Be Stopped. That was my arch nemesis crew. My crew was Southside Rockets, on the south side. I was a part of two crews Southside Rockets, which was my south side, was my side of town, and then I was also a part of Puma Nation. Puma Nation was like one of the biggest crews. You know what I mean, because they were from the east side, but they was like one of the biggest crews because they had MCs, you know DJs, break dancers, graffiti artists. They was on that New York shit hard because they was going to New York all the time. And G was from Harlem. He was, you know, he was from Harlem but but his mom was from Harlem, but he was born and raised here but he was always going home. So everybody wanted to be down with Puma Nation, everybody, because there's just some fly cats. But I didn't get down with them. Because I wanted to be down with them, I took their ass out at the skating rink, all of them.

Speaker 1: 46:59

What's the name of the skating rink? Sportsarama Okay.

Speaker 2: 47:03

I took them out at the skating rink and they was like yo, yo, you down with us. They told me I was down with them, like yo, y'all don't know where you came from, but you got to be down with us. And that's how that whole thing started. And CBS crew, southside Rockers and Puma Nation, and then it was like the West Side had some crows I can't remember their names, puerto Rican Brothers, they could pop and everything. And then we had Mr Wiggles in them, bonita. Bonita was nice, she was a female, she was a popper. Mr Wiggles, he's still around. He's still around. It was a bunch of them.

Speaker 2: 47:41

Ernest Shaw, mr Freeze, mr Windmill Chill, it bunch of them. Ernie Shaw, mr Freeze, mr Windmill Chill, it was a bunch of us. B, that's what we did, man, but I was the illest. And it was another cat named Greg Greg Atkins. I forgot his name, but he still hit me up a while back and was like yeah, man, I still get loose for my grandkids, my grandkids, watch me get loose. Man, that's what we used to call it getting loose, let's get loose, and then we break that shit, you know, I mean. So he was like yeah, man, I'm still getting loose. Man, my grandkids, I got my grandkids on this shit.

Speaker 1: 48:09

Now we got, we got g for, we got g for the five percent nation and culmination. I'm saying as far as now. I'm talking about as far as consciousness, now, now I want to go into that a little bit Now.

Speaker 1: 48:24

So we got G from the 5% Nation, who pretty much brought that to Syracuse, brought it to you, yup. And then we got Sharif, who came with the Morris Science, brought it to Syracuse, pretty much, yup. Okay, what was that? Brother Sharif, like you know, as a youngster and things like that, dealing with the knowledge and things like that, what was he like?

Speaker 2: 48:51

Sharif was just like he is now Same dude man. You know what?

Speaker 1: 48:57

I'm saying how are you Studying and building? Studying and building.

Speaker 2: 49:01

That's what we all did, right, that's what we all did. It was Ishmael Allah obey, sharif Allah obey and Hisham Allah obey. At one time we was all together. But life begins and you go your way. You get older, ish got married, children, got daughters, a wife and so on and so forth, and that's it, one dude from here, he, he said, if you play games I'm gonna take you, but yeah, man. So so yeah, sharif was a sharif. He brought, he brought that science. You know I'm saying he brought it in. And um, you know he was. You know he's a martial artist as well. He was always in the martial arts. We, you, you know, we all were, we all were martial artists. I'm still a martial artist. He's still a martial artist. He runs a school now. Yeah, hungar, yeah, the Hungar school. No doubt he's doing his thing. And you know, sharif went on his way. We all went our own ways with missions, I guess in the kind of like. You know, ish went his way because me and Ish went to the military together.

Speaker 2: 50:05

I went to the Navy, ish went to the Navy. We ran into each other while we was in the Navy, stationed in different locations. But I walk into a club on the Naval base. I'm in the bathroom. I'm in my Miami Vice joint, breasted joint, with the matching pants on, looking like tubs and shit. You know what I'm saying? Somebody said, yo, pooch. Pooch is my nickname, so I'm in Cali B. I'm in Cali right now. Who the fuck knows my nickname? You know what I'm saying? I'm looking around like what the fuck? Look around, it's Ish. Yo, we in the bathroom hugging and shit. He talking Spanish, I'm talking Spanish and he's like when you start talking. I'm like when, when you start talking Spanish. And we just started laughing and shit, because me and Callie we pick up a little tongue and all that man talking that shit. But Ish ended up getting married to the chick that he introduced me to that night that I saw him with.

Speaker 2: 50:52

This is my girl. This is my friend, tracy. They've been married for almost 40-something years, 30-something years or some shit. Wait, hold on, hold on. We got to applaud that. Yeah, yeah, ish been married to the same woman. The woman he met is the woman he married. I'm proud of my brother. I love that. Dude man. I wish I could have did that. I got married, but it didn't work. I ain't the right. I'm just not built for that stuff, man. It ain't for anybody man. I tried. My mother and father been married 51 years man.

Speaker 1: 51:20

We got to bring Ish on to talk about how you stayed with the same person for a long time.

Speaker 2: 51:24

Oh yo, yo don't bring Ishawn because he's going to start cracking jokes. He's going to start telling stories about us when we was kids. I don't want him to tell them stories.

Speaker 1: 51:31

You know, ishawn was on a podcast one time he was talking about uh, it was Scientology.

Speaker 2: 51:38

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to tell you. You want to know at yeah, you know? Do you know how it got into scientology?

Speaker 2: 51:44

no in 2010, when I came back from south africa, ishmael said somebody had sent him a picture of a nation of islam's laborer meeting with a chair and on the chair had the letters cos reserve cos. I said, ish, that's the church of scientology. He's like what I said oh, ish, let me tell you, I just came back from South Africa. I just spent a year and a half in the Church of Scientology getting my daughters out. He was like what?

Speaker 2: 52:15

I said yeah, I'm the one that put Ish on Scientology. I'm the one that brought that to him. I'm the one that put him on that matter of fact. Man issued a whole breakdown before ferricon, before ferricon could get a chance to tell you he was a scientologist. We exposed him before he could even come out of his mouth and say it.

Speaker 1: 52:33

We made him say wait a minute, wait a minute. So hold on. You got your daughters out of scientology.

Speaker 2: 52:39

You said my yep, my, my, my wife, my ex-wife, took my daughters to south africa she's a South African citizen Took them there and they were in the Church of Scientology. When I got to Africa, she had them in the Church of Scientology. And guess what I did? I infiltrated that shit, got in and do what I do.

Speaker 1: 53:01

Master the information I already knew it.

Speaker 2: 53:04

They thought I was already on some high level. They got this thing called OTs. The OTs are the secret society of Scientology. The OT means the operating thetan, t-h-e-t-a-n, t-h-e-t-a-n. A thetan or a thetan operating thetan. A thetan or a thetan, a thetan operating thetan. So I got a white turban on, I got all white on. I'm in. You know, we build and we add no one's going to do said are you an OT? I said no, I'm a Sufi man, I'm just a Muslim B he said oh man, your information sounds like OT information. So I started laughing. I said well, that's because L Ron Hubbard studied Sufism, he stole pieces of it. He said that he gives honor to the, to the, to the, to the avatars of the 14th and 15th century from the Middle East. That's Islam, sufism.

Speaker 1: 53:57

Now real quick before we, before we, before we move on. Thank you, let's hope I. I really appreciate that $20. He says you're right, brother. He said he says Syracuse, and especially Ithaca, kind of reminds me of East St Louis, close confined quarters, real serious people.

Speaker 2: 54:18

Yeah, ithaca, yo, my daughter's living in Ithaca. Actually, my ex-wife just moved back to Ithaca. I got a whole History down there too. You know what I'm saying. Ithaca is a beautiful. That's where Cornell University is. Cornell University has the biggest Hip-hop historical Memorabilia Museum In the world Is on Cornell University. Over a million pieces of hip-hop history Is on Cornell University. Over a million pieces of hip-hop history is on Cornell University. It's a museum. Did you know that, brother?

Speaker 1: 54:53

I had no idea.

Speaker 2: 54:54

You need to take a trip and do your podcast, take your podcast up there and do a whole thing on that joint B.

Speaker 1: 55:00

Yeah, that's one of the ideas. My first thought was to go to Syracuse first.

Speaker 2: 55:08

Come here, man, I take you out there. We ride out. You know what I'm saying. As a matter of fact, ithaca is dope because Ithaca got the Roots Festival coming up, the Reggae Festival coming up, they got the Dragon Boat Racing Festival. Because Ithaca is on a lake, a lake surrounds Ithaca as well. Ithaca is dope. Ithaca is on a lake, a lake surrounds Ithaca as well. Ithaca is dope. Ithaca is dope B. I like Ithaca, man, I like it. It's dope, real dope.

Speaker 2: 55:36

That's an environment that's conducive for you know you can take something there and start a movement and just take the time. And yo take something there and start a movement and just take the time. It's so much talent there, it's a whole center. It's the Southside Community Center over there. I got access to that center because my daughter, fiance, mother, dr Nia she's the executive director of the center, somebody you might even want to contact and get in contact with and do an interview with her on the history of Ithaca.

Speaker 1: 56:12

Yeah, that'll be peace for sure, for sure.

Speaker 2: 56:16

But I can connect that for you too, if you need me to.

Speaker 1: 56:19

Yeah, that'll be, that'll be peace. Well, before we cut out, man, I want to say this man, I'm going to send this video straight to my sister who has my nephew in Syracuse I don't know where you are. Devon Peace to you. I miss you man, love you nephew. I got to go out there to see you. I got to go out there to capture the history of Syracuse and all that and, of course, to see you. Love you always. Your uncle Ron Brown, aka I. Supreme Allah, and, on that note, thank you for coming out. Shake Denim L Really appreciate you. Thank you for all the viewers for watching us, and we're out of here. Peace.