NYPTALKSHOW Podcast
NYPTALKSHOW: Where New York Speaks
Welcome to NYPTALKSHOW, the podcast that captures the heartbeat of New York City through candid conversations and diverse perspectives. Every week, we dive into the topics that matter most to New Yorkers—culture, politics, arts, community, and everything in between.
What to Expect:
• Engaging Interviews: Hear from local leaders, activists, artists, and everyday citizens who shape the city’s narrative.
• In-Depth Discussions: We unpack current events, urban trends, and community issues with honesty and insight.
• Unique Perspectives: Experience the vibrant tapestry of New York through voices that reflect its rich diversity.
Whether you’re a lifelong New Yorker or just curious about the city’s dynamic energy, join us as we explore what makes New York, New York—one conversation at a time.
Tune in and let your voice be part of the dialogue on NYPTALKSHOW.
NYPTALKSHOW Podcast
Who’s Really Fueling the Protests in New York? - Adam Swart
What if protests aren't what they seem? Adam Swart, founder and CEO of Crowds on Demand, pulls back the curtain on an industry few understand but many encounter through news coverage. As the leader of "the largest protest company in the world," Swart reveals how his business has spent 13 years orchestrating advocacy campaigns, demonstrations, and PR stunts across America.The conversation challenges conventional wisdom about grassroots activism. "When we organize a protest, we pay people to attend and therefore they attend," Swart explains, detailing how compensation takes many forms beyond cash—from social validation and Instagram clout to organizational pressure and personal agendas. Swart makes a compelling case: if Tucker Carlson earns millions expressing opinions while being considered sincere, why would protesters earning hundreds be viewed as inauthentic?Particularly fascinating is Swart's breakdown of media manipulation tactics. Effective protests tap into existing narratives media outlets already support, sometimes deliberately antagonizing opponents to generate coverage. "You want to leave bait," he explains, comparing the relationship between opposing media outlets to professional wrestling—apparent enemies serving the same financial ecosystem. The discussion ventures into darker territory with revelations about foreign influence operations, including how countries like China pressure their diaspora communities into participating in demonstrations.The hosts and Swart explore political independence, the power of swing voters, and how both major parties fail their base. "As soon as you pledge allegiance to a particular party, you give them power over you," Swart observes, noting how Democrats primarily speak to educated white liberals while failing to understand communities they claim to represent. Their conversation on reparations, c
Fit, Healthy & Happy PodcastWelcome to the Fit, Healthy and Happy Podcast hosted by Josh and Kyle from Colossus...
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NYPTALKSHOW EP.1 HOSTED BY RON BROWNLMT & MIKEY FEVER
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What's going on. Everybody is Ron Brown, lmt, the people's fitness professional, alongside my co-host, mikey Fever, and this is a New Yorkers perspective. We have Adam Swart on today, founder and and CEO of Crowds on Demand. Nice to meet you. How are you feeling this evening?
Speaker 2:Excellent, as always. Great to be with you both and to chat a little bit about the business and anything else you guys want to talk about.
Speaker 1:Great, great. Okay, so you know. First I want to go into your history a little bit. Um, where are you from?
Speaker 2:So I'm from California, um from the Bay. Area Um what's called a Bay area for the most part, but lived, uh, for a few years in Ireland growing up, so did that. Then went to school in Los Angeles at UCLA, and that's kind of where I started my business.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, so you kind of like gave us a snippet. So how did you grow up? What was your childhood like?
Speaker 2:Oh, pretty good. I, I mean, I think I was always probably the kid who talked out of turn a little bit in school. I was very opinionated. I always wanted to figure out who was in charge and who could actually get me what I was looking for. So it's like, if you're a kid, I was always the annoying kid who probably negotiated the grades. Um, you know, I'll try to charm the teacher a little bit. Um, you know, I uh, you know, as a kid I think I was always very interested in politics, uh, very interested in, like, how the world works, um, kind of tangentially, was always a train lover. Love, always loved trains. That was a big interest of mine. So yeah, I think I was a nice kid for the most part. I mean, most kids are a little brat. So I think I probably was a little bit of a brat too, but yeah, a little bit of a mix.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. So were you born like in the late 90s.
Speaker 2:Oh well, thank you, I appreciate that. Early 90s, OK, so 91. So I'm 34 now, so I've been at this business for 13 years now. So since college I've been running my business Nice.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. Ok, all right, so let's, let's go right into it. So what is your business exactly?
Speaker 2:Okay, so crowds on demand is the largest protest company in the world. So what we do, it's a now it's, it's easier to be a largest protest company than to be the largest computer software company, for sure, um, because there aren't. There's not really a lot of competition, but what we do is we allow people, allow people to put together advocacy campaigns, protests, pr stunts, all kinds of things like that, and all across the country and even occasionally, internationally.
Speaker 3:So like a flash mob on demand, something like that, absolutely Flash mobs.
Speaker 2:Kind of like what we call PR stuff. So let's just say, you're a company you really want to, you know, evangelize your product, you know, in an unconventional manner. We do that right, so we'll help you promote your product, you know, outside of conference or online or kind of in the media as well. So what we do is our specialty, is using the power of protest and the power of people, you know, to put together these kind of events, these displays that get a ton of attention and that raise awareness, whether it's your product, your company or your cause.
Speaker 1:Gotcha Okay. So would you say that a lot of these protests going on, they are possibly using a company like yours?
Speaker 2:They may not use a company, but they are generally. What I would say is I think the root of your question is are people who are protesting being compensated? And the answer is generally yes, and there's a lot of ways to receive compensation, right, so there's cash compensation. Like our company, what we do is we pay people to attend, so that's how we guarantee attendance. That's very valuable for our customers, because, when we organize a protest, we pay people to attend and therefore they attend, and that's a great service to our customers, right, but what our what we also do, though, is what.
Speaker 2:What you're talking about in regards to the, the protest that you see? Yeah, a lot of. There's a lot of ways to get compensation. So, for example, flexing on Instagram, in my opinion, is compensation. So a lot of the people, for example I don't know whether you guys agree with this, but I think a lot of the like the read, the housewives who went and attended the BLM rallies in 2020, we're not passionate about black Lives Matter. They were there because they wanted to seem like they were part of the cause, that they understood the movement and posts on Instagram and people to be like wow you're great.
Speaker 3:That's very common. You got people who are their photo opportunists.
Speaker 1:Mike doesn't like the photo ops.
Speaker 3:I don't like photo opportunists. They go there, they dilute the cause. They're not as compassionate, their attention is not pure Correct. You know like you know people like George Soros and them.
Speaker 2:Sharpton right, who is who's kind of a major grifter and uh, you know, in the black community they actually kind of know he's a fraud, but actually his audience is more like white liberals, because white liberals don't know he's a fraud. So so the challenge is they actually believe he speaks for black America. So when he speaks he's speaking to them. He's not actually speaking to the black community.
Speaker 3:So he has a point. Ron, give him applause. He has a point. Yeah, I don't Listen whether you're Black or white. I don't deal with ambulance chasers. I don't deal with ambulance chasers.
Speaker 1:Here's my thing on Al Sharpton, though this is my view on Al Sharpton. Now is he an ambulance chaser and things like that? Okay, I get the point. However, like doing this work, mike, we've done this work. This work is not easy, I know.
Speaker 2:It's not.
Speaker 1:It's not easy, like the activism work. It's not easy, no, it's not Right, and so many things are coming at you from different angles, in different ways. I think that al sharpton has tried the best he can and then, once he's he figured out like there's money behind it. I think that's where he started. It started to get a little diluted, a little bit correct, correct.
Speaker 2:I mean, look, we're all human. I don't think he's an evil person or anyone else isn't. You know, I I think morality judgments are separate from, hey, this guy's kind of a grifter. I mean, there are plenty of grifters around, I mean. But I want to get back to your question.
Speaker 2:But I kind of think that al sharpe in the real housewives example, it kind of illustrates there's different forms of compensation. So so, for example, labor unions also basically compensate people to attend protests. Right, if you're in a union, you're expected to attend certain demonstrations, certain events. Right, and if you attend, you will find that you get better shifts, better treatment. If you don't attend, you will find that you are getting worse shifts and worse treatment, right. So, even though that, so that's a compensated protester, right.
Speaker 2:So I mean I would say I always use this line, but basically, like, think about Woodstock, you know the Vietnam War protests, all that. I mean a lot of those guys were there to smoke pot and get laid right. So in a sense of, so I think the the challenge we're talking about compensating protesters is that there's so many different forms of compensation that it's very difficult to say okay, well, well, cash compensation is, is bad, but other forms of compensation aren't. I mean, the other thing is like I actually think it's right for people to get paid to protest because, frankly, um, talk show hosts are paid, right, like you think about. Look like tug of carlson, right.
Speaker 2:Rachel maddow, right, these guys are paid eight figures, right, they're paid tens of millions of dollars. So those guys are paid tens of millions of dollars to express their opinions, right, and people generally say, okay, well, their opinions are sincere, okay, well. So if they're getting paid tens of millions of dollars and are generally assumed to be sincere, you're saying a protester getting paid in the hundreds of dollars, they're not sincere. How do you square those facts?
Speaker 3:I got you Basically. To sum it up, and I don't want to sound offensive to the common folk the game is to be sold, not told.
Speaker 2:Well, sure Say that again.
Speaker 3:The game is to be sold, not told. Sure, sure say, say that again the game is to be sold, not told yeah, sure, sure, I respect that, I respect that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, well, I think, I mean I don't, I'm, but, by the way, I don't think you're being sold when you're expecting you're getting paid to express your opinion, because I actually it's. I think it's important because if you're coming out there, you're paid to express your opinion, not to have an opinion, so, sold, I think the word. When you say sold, the kind of implication is I sold out, right, I'm being paid and therefore I'm changing my opinion. I would say what we do at Crowds on Demand is we are essentially our people are paid to express their sincere opinions. So you see, the distinction is like we're not trying to get people to sell out. Nor again would people sell out for what we compensate them, what we compensate people enough to show up for something they already believe in.
Speaker 1:Got you, ok, all right. People enough to show up for something they already believe in. Got you, okay, all right. How do you see that, mike? Because it's it's. We don't come from that.
Speaker 3:We don't, we don't come from that close like yeah, because, and what I really listen, everybody you know has their angle, has their agenda and I get what you're coming from, because what he's doing is um, you know it's a crowds in the man, because during the presidential um campaigns they were doing the same thing bust loads of people to come in, you know you. You know you like Trump, you like Kamala? All right, here's a t-shirt absolutely here's a hot dog, a drink.
Speaker 3:You know I'm saying $40 and call it a day, so I get what I get. I get what he's coming from.
Speaker 2:It's a business well, it's just a business. And, by the way, like, oh yeah, a lot of those people at those rallies are actually republican or democrat staffers, right? So if you, let's just imagine that that's a good point new york.
Speaker 2:Let's just say you work for a new york city um council members, right, your job is not to rallies. Your job is to work on bills that help the people of New York, right, but essentially, one, one kind of tacit part of your job is to actually attend rallies. You see what I'm saying? So, because if you're a Democrat council member, you're expecting your staff members to essentially go out and like to the rallies, right, and if they, even though that's not part of their job, so a lot of the people who are going to these things actually don't really support like. I mean, it's not that they don't support it because they're Democrats, but they're, they're being incentivized to go. So but okay, let me.
Speaker 2:Let's take a step back for a second about, like what paid protesting is right. Well, what all kind of protest is is I think people make a mistake when they think that the goal of a protest is to show public support. And oh, okay, there's 200 people who demonstrated on one side of the issue and 50 people on the other. Well, let's just assume you know, four out of five people support this issue. You see what I'm saying? I got what you're saying.
Speaker 2:That's an inaccurate way to look at it. The way to look at it is what a protest does is it gets people's attention. It gets the media's attention, it gets whoever you're protesting his attention. It forces you to say let's look at this issue, right. Ultimately, you can spend as much money and have as many protesters as possible, but if the issue doesn't resonate, you will not get results, so like. So, if you think about every movement, from gay rights, civil rights, maga, tea party, blm it's all backed by a ton of money, right, but that doesn't delegitimize the causes, right? All that means is that there are a lot of wealthy people who want to back the cause and want to make sure that it gets the visibility that to grow, because, like, for example, money does not guarantee visibility. I mean, look at, look at jeb bush.
Speaker 2:Jeb bush ran for president in 2016. I'm sure they spent about 150 to 200 million dollars on his campaign for him to get like two percent. Right, he got laughed off stage, right, but what his money did was it got him noticed. Everyone, everyone knew who Jeb Bush was. They all just decided they didn't want to vote for Right? That's the effect that money has.
Speaker 3:So I have a question for you, right so? Are you funding the free Diddy campaign outside of courthouse? Is that your company?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean look, I'll put it. I mean look.
Speaker 1:I'll put it this way Mike, good question.
Speaker 2:If I started commenting on every like potential thing, then I would get myself in this situation where it's like, oh well, if you don't comment, then we assume you are behind it, right. So I don't like to be like, oh, we are or we aren't behind it. The only thing that we kind of where we are clear that we don't do, is illegal activity, right? So anything that's kind of like breaking the law, blocking a street without a permit, you know, violence, vandalism, whatever we don't associate with that. You know we don't mess with that. You know that is not how we run our business with that.
Speaker 3:We don't mess with that. That is not how we run our business.
Speaker 1:All right, so I may have to hire you, man, make oxtails cheap again.
Speaker 3:It's all messing with you, man. Thank you, adam, you broke it down for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's the comedian of the two. So okay, protests aren't talking points, protests aren't grassroots. I think you covered that I have a point on Diddy right.
Speaker 2:Like Diddy still deserves representation right, he still deserves a lawyer.
Speaker 3:Due process and everything.
Speaker 2:yes, Now, if people are protesting. I don't think people are protesting violently, but if people are, I condemn it. But people have a right to protest in favor of P Didion's claim he didn't do anything wrong. I mean, I think that's you know, people can make that decision for themselves, but ultimately that's for a jury to decide. I don't find that in many cases that protests have an impact on court trials. I think people they do a pretty good job of insulating the jury from public pressure, but on an extreme level they might.
Speaker 2:But I think P Diddy deserves his day in court and he deserves to have people who support him if they do. So. You know, I don't condemn people for going out and saying, hey, let's look at. And also I also don't condemn people, in the case of P Did you, for saying, hey, let's look critically at the evidence, like, because people just sort of there's a lot of the media can always make something look bad and say, ok, he's this pervert, he's done all this bad stuff, but I think it's important to look at. Well, he may be questionable, but what has he done that's illegal and that has to be proven in a court of law and that should be litigated. I'm not, I'm not taking P Diddy's side. I'm just saying like I don't support the idea of like that he doesn't deserve people out there to support.
Speaker 3:I understand I was just messing with you with that, but I get what you're coming from.
Speaker 1:I get what you're saying we have a question. What about crisis actors?
Speaker 2:Okay, so let me define it. I don't know whether you guys know what this term is. I mean, I don't really like the term because I think it's kind of a little bit of fake news. It's the idea that a lot of world events essentially are staged. So it's basically like, on an extreme level, like a mass shooting is actually staged, like the shooting never happened.
Speaker 2:Um, the people who are supposedly victims are actually actors. I mean, I think the challenge is, if that were true, you would have a ton of people out there being like yeah, I was a crisis actor, I was hired to impersonate this person and have direct evidence that to that effect. Um, there really hasn't been any. So, honestly, I I don't necessarily buy this like crisis actor idea. I mean, I think there's a difference between a crisis actor and a false flag. So a false flag is kind of like okay, we're liberals, we're going to have protesters, kind of like, look like they're conservatives and then say stupid things or vice versa, like, yeah, that happens all the time, but when we're really talking about crisis actors, I mean that that would be like a very, very, um illegal activity. So I think if you were to have this happening, you would have a lot more people talking about it, so I don't buy it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that came from Alex Jones, that whole Alex Jones. I know him, I know him. Oh, you do.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's what's up. I know the guy, and I know because he has said things that are inaccurate about what we do at Crowds on Demand.
Speaker 1:So, oh, wow, so he, he knows, he knows, you guys.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yes, oh yes, we know him and he knows us, you know. Look, I think they I've even extended an invite and said I'm happy to clear the air with him because I'm open, because I think he's said things that are false and I think he's just I don't know whether he's misinformed or purposefully spreading things that are false, but but yeah, he definitely has said things that are provably false. But I'll give him the benefit of good intentions, but I'd love to actually clarify some of what he said, because some of this stuff isn't really true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gotcha gotcha so foreign fingerprints. What is that exactly?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, you're talking about foreign countries and their ability to influence things in the united states yeah, that's totally a thing? Yeah, it's totally a thing, yeah it's totally a.
Speaker 1:Thing. Can you give me an example?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean this has been happening, I mean there's. Well, let me give you a non-protest example. China has a series of police stations in the United States. Did you know that, even in New York City, their goal of those police stations is to police the Chinese community and the Chinese American community. So they have and these are illegal, to be clear. But where they have their operatives, they're monitoring student groups and, for example, let's just say the.
Speaker 2:But here's where it relates to protests. Let's just say the president of China is visiting, they will let all the Chinese community know. You're expected to come out there to welcome him and to cheer for him. Or if there's some rally about, like Tibet or Taiwan or whatever, they will tell those people they have to be like at a counter rally. So what's kind of interesting about that is and you might ask well, any leverage that the Chinese government has. So let's just say you live in the United States but your mother and father live in China. Well, that's leverage. You know, if you don't do what they say, maybe your mother loses her job or maybe they take away your you know aunt's house somewhere. You know what I mean. They, they're, they've proven a willingness to do that, right. So that's kind of one example, um, but but even like in a and and this has been very well documented that this is occurring, um, and it's kind of concerning, and a lot of the those stations have been dismantled.
Speaker 2:But the other thing that that's worth noting is that, for example, if a foreign country wants to funnel money into protest causes, they just need to. All it is is layers, right? Do you know what Russian dolls are? Yeah, so you've got little dolls that fold into bigger dolls. Okay, so what all you need to do is like what you have is like a little doll in the center, right, the people on the street don't know that they're being funded by some shady entity, and the shady entity doesn't have a paper trail to tie them back. No, does it matter so much for legal protests? No, but it matters more for illegal protests, because if you're funding something illegal, presumably you wouldn't want to have your fingerprints on it so prime example who's funding Antifa?
Speaker 2:Oh well, I mean, a ton of people could be. I mean, look, I want to be clear that I don't want to name names, and the reason is because I don't want to get sued for defamation.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:So I can't. And part of it is you have to be clear that because of this Russian doll model, I suspect that there are a lot of very wealthy billionaires who are behind funding some of this stuff. But it's indirect, so there's no paper. So if you kind of say, oh, this billionaire is funding Antifa, they'll send you a cease and desist and they'll say they're not. And maybe they're not, maybe they are, but if they are, they're going to have enough levels of separation to themselves.
Speaker 3:Got you. That makes sense, Understood. It's down the rabbit hole, bro.
Speaker 1:It's deep yeah man, it's kind of scary.
Speaker 2:But I don't even know your guys's politics. It sounds like you guys are kind of pragmatic people.
Speaker 2:Independence is that, is that an accurate statement I'll say yeah, pretty much and, by the way, I think that's great. That's me too, by the way because as soon as you pledge allegiance to a particular party, you are giving them power over you, and the most powerful thing you can do in any election is say my vote is up for grabs. You better do the things that I want you to do or you're not going to get my vote Right. Because as soon as you say, like, rural America votes Republican, no matter what, well, what have the Republicans done for rural America, right, no matter what? Well, what have the Republicans done for rural America right?
Speaker 2:Black America votes for Democrats, you know, in many respects, no matter what, although that's changing. And what have Democrats done for Black America, right. So the most powerful thing you can do is to say I'm a swing voter. You better actually do the things that are going to matter for me, or my family or my community. Because when you say that you're putting the parties on notice, to say we better do something or we're going to lose their votes to the other side.
Speaker 3:Like you know, brother Ron and I, we had done the community work we all for the people. We came to a point, through our studies and everything else, and realized like this game of racism and prejudice is something that has been instilled into people to create fear and division. We're more into, like you know, people it sounds like a lullaby but equity, equality and respect for all you know. So that's basically it with us.
Speaker 2:I agree with all of that, except I don't 100% agree with equity, because equity implies equal outcomes, which isn't always possible in most societies. But I completely agree with equality and equal opportunity, because I think you have to have equal opportunity and respect for different opinions, because one thing really lost is the respect for different people's opinions. Oh, I see a question. Do you want me to answer it? Yes, sir, what safeguards you have in place to prevent misuse of crowdsourced labor, like fake reviews, manipulated data or unethical task fulfillment? Well, I think the safeguards is that I vet every client myself, so if it's something that we feel like isn't contributing to society, then we probably won't work with them.
Speaker 2:I mean, some of these things are kind of like a little bit vague, like what is unethical task fulfillment? Don't even know what that is, um, but uh, fake reviews. I mean I think there's a case to be made. This, like the whole review industry is kind of bullshit, like, um, like yelp, I don't really care. Like if people want to do fake reviews and like I just assume that fake reviews are part of the system and like you know that and that's just, that's just the game. I mean so, um, yeah, you got to take what you read on Yelp or TripAdvisor, google reviews, all with like a grain of salt because, especially like someone's controversial, you're like. And then they own a restaurant. You're like I got food poisoning there. Well, it's like. Well, how, how do you know that? You know what I mean. So I don't know. I I don't know about that, but we certainly have safeguards against people who we think are have nefarious motives, and that safeguard is my, our vetting process got you.
Speaker 3:So this the next talking point, is anti-trump strategy. The hands-off protests, okay, are meant to damage trump through optics and policy, yes, not policy. Can you break that down?
Speaker 2:well, I think, um, I think hands-off was sort of, if you think of, like the anti-trump movements, uh, since he took office for the second time, I think hands-off effective, because anything hands-off the the thing is trump, um, I mean obviously, to his super fans, like he's he's god and to his detractors he's he's the devil. But I think, if you think about like the people in the middle, what brings them to like trump is, yeah, they think he's kind of like a crazy, but he's a crazy genius, you know. Sure, he talks crazy, but ultimately the results are there. So I have a good job, my 401k is doing well, you know, our community is safe, right. So there are a lot of independent voters that will look at those kind of factors and say, ok, well, I might not like Trump's personality, but ultimately, whatever he's doing, there's a method to the madness. But, conversely, like during COVID, or when you know like the tariffs and you know price increases and you know stock market crash, it's like, no, he's not a mad genius, he's just a crazy person, right? So I think hands off really spoke to those anxieties of like, wow, is there a method to the madness or is he really doing crazy things that just put us at risk for no reason. And so I think what I like about hands off is it appeals to independent voters.
Speaker 2:Whenever Crowds on man does a protest, whether it's for a company or a cause, I always try to think who are we trying to persuade, right? And how are we working to persuade them? And if the answer is we have nothing that would persuade someone who doesn't know or is on the other side, then I'm like, well, what are we doing? You're just kind of wasting your money and your time. So I think it's effective, I think. I think I think Democrats tend to be their own worst enemy, like they have a good talking point but then they kind of get lost among all this other stuff. And you know every identity group has to have its say and you know the woke stuff is just not popular. Defund, the police isn't popular. So I think they do best when they say, hey, we're the grown-ups in the room and I thought hands off really spoke to them so control of narrative, I got you think thing.
Speaker 3:The control, the way you think, form your person. It basically form a narrative for you, form the story for you and your opinions.
Speaker 1:I got you and and that, and. That brings us right into the next talking point media manipulation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much. So is the media manipulated? Yes, it is manipulated, I agree.
Speaker 3:Very much.
Speaker 1:So these campaigns are engineered to go viral and shape public perception.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. A hundred percent, I mean to be clear. Not all of our campaigns are engineered to go viral. Some of them are designed to get local news coverage, or some of them might be designed to persuade certain people at a certain company.
Speaker 2:So not all of what we do is geared toward media, but certainly some of what we do is and of course you play to the media that you think will be supportive of you, because think about this so right-wing media is always going to try to make right-wing causes bigger and look smarter. Left-wing media is always going to try to make left-wing causes look bigger and look smarter. So if Fox News interviews a conservative protester and that protester says something stupid, they probably won't air it, whereas if they're covering a left-wing protest and that protester says something stupid, they probably won't air it, whereas if they're covering a left-wing protest and that protester says something stupid, they almost certainly will air it. You see what I'm saying. So media given the media is partisan is of course open to manipulation of sorts. But I don't even think it's manipulation. I think it's playing to your audience.
Speaker 3:Of course, keywords, certain keywords, tonality, all that's put into the scene.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent.
Speaker 3:Got you and celebrities.
Speaker 1:Can you give me an example of how you would engineer the media or your media campaign to go viral and shape public perception?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, here's an example. So basically, first of all, you want to use catching narratives, you want to tap into the zeitgeist, right? So what people are thinking? So number one is it has to be of sufficient size to get coverage based on the coverage you're looking for. So if you are looking for local media visibility, a crowd of 25 people might actually get you on the local news.
Speaker 2:If you're looking for national visibility, you probably need at least hundreds, if not more, to get on the national news, right? So part of it it's going to depend on what media that you're looking for. And then you tap into okay, well, what do these media folks tend to cover, and is it in line with their existing narratives? And if it is, then they're going to want to cover demonstrations that feed into their narrative. But here's one other thing that I do Sometimes you actually can use your opponents to get you the coverage right, because, let's just say, you're doing a liberal protest, a left-wing protest, you might want to do something catchy enough that you get Fox news to try to come at you right like. So you might try to antagonize your opponents, because by antagonizing your opponents you're making a story you get coverage, yep, so so they do that that all the time.
Speaker 2:So, in a way, sometimes I hate to say this, but you might want to you want to leave bait. So if you say something super woke and super kind of politically correct, fox News might be like ah, I see a target. Because, as you know, the media ecosystem is actually. They both seem at odds with each other Fox News, msnbc, they're at odds, but they're actually friends. They actually have the same goal, which is to get money from their viewers right, to keep their viewers in the loop, to get clicks, to get ads, et cetera, et cetera, right. So Fox News and MSNBC, it's kind of like WWE, right, like these fighters are fighting each other, but they're both making money. You know what I mean? They're both, they're both trying to spur this on because it it helps them both, so the politics helps them both.
Speaker 2:Same with republicans and democrats, like, as I always say, like I use al sharpton. Al sharpton's biggest enemy is not the trumpets, it's j's, jesse Jackson or the other people who might want to compete for his audience. Right, because he wants to be the voice of black America. So Trump isn't a threat to him, trump isn't the voice of black America. But if someone else comes along like Charlemagne, the God or what's his name, the one rapper, myson, pardon me.
Speaker 3:Myson.
Speaker 2:Oh, killer Mike. I was thinking of Killer Mike, killer Mike, but Myson.
Speaker 1:Myson is a part of that too right. He doesn't even know who Myson is.
Speaker 2:I don't even know who that is, because I'm not in the community, you know. You know what he said. I'm not in the community, you know.
Speaker 3:You know what he said. He's not in the community, but I see he studies though, hearing how they do the media. You know how they get interested. I've got to understand every community, by the way.
Speaker 2:Part of being in my business guys is I've got to understand every community. I want to understand Black community, latino community. I want to understand Black community, latino community. I want to understand rural white community, country, western community. I want to play to the community that we are trying to focus on. So if it's a rural issue, I've got to understand what those people care about. One of the big problems that the Democrats have is they don't really understand any community besides the educated white liberal community that they are mostly from.
Speaker 3:Wow, wow, let it go, hold on hold on hold on.
Speaker 1:Where's that?
Speaker 2:oh my god it's true, it's true, and even when, when there's because here's. The other thing is that the you know they can have someone on MSNBC who's like oh, I'm the Latino commentator, I'm the black commentator, but those people don't speak for that community Right. Those people are speaking again, like I said, to white liberals. So the thing is that the Democratic Party is only only knows how to talk to educated white liberals. They do it very well. They own 90 percent of that vote, but 95 percent, maybe 100 percent of that vote, but that is 20 percent of the country. What about the other 80 percent?
Speaker 3:Got you, adam. So you know I'm gonna throw a wrench right now. Tell me if you agree with this. A wrench right now, tell me if you agree with this. Like, how would your company spin us, like, formulate a story about this podcast right here about? From your experience with mike and ron, how would you guys formulate a story?
Speaker 2:well if I were promoting it. I would like stage kind of event where you guys, you know you guys take on some entrenched interest. So, for example, you guys like. One thing that I think would be like a interesting one is if you like you guys, took on well, here's an idea.
Speaker 2:That that I think is big, and particularly not to say that you only represent the black community, but that one thing, one major cause that I have, is the poison in our fast food. Mcdonald's has murdered millions of black people, black Americans disproportionately. I mean white Americans too. But McDonald's, through the, they advertise specifically in black neighborhoods. They advertise their most nastiest products with the most sugar, sugar, the most, um, trans fat. Right, and should it be then a surprise that the black life expectancy is 20 to 30 years shorter than the white life expectancy? Right, that's effed up. I'm not allowed to swear on here. I mean that's effed up. I mean that that is like, like.
Speaker 2:I would love to see two people like you guys use your platform to say coca-cola has the blood of amer black americans on its hands and do like I've always wanted to put coca-cola on trial and say what you've done, you know, with robes and everything, um, what you have done to black communities, to then come back and then say, oh well, we have two black board members on our board, so somehow that absolves us of guilt. We make charitable donations, so that somehow absolves us of guilt. You see what I'm saying? Like, I think you guys should go after the big entrenched interests that say that they care about the black community in new york and especially, but then they don't. You know, they really don't.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't think they even hate black america. They see black america's lemmings for their products, right? Um, that's why black muslims won't eat that stuff. You know what I mean. Because they know, like, one of my business partners is a black muslim and she says, uh, or she grew up in. She says she, she will not, um, she, she doesn't want to, um, engage in that stuff.
Speaker 1:You know, because they know that those uh fast food was there to essentially poison black america now I want, I want to ask this question Law and order, strategically Sure Correct lawbreakers, not bystanders. Don't fall for the trap. Yes, I agree.
Speaker 2:I agree, I'm the biggest advocate for personal liberties and for the right of First Amendment expression, but I also believe in law and order and those things actually must go together. You can't have freedom without law and you can't have law without freedom, because the people will not accept an unjust society, but people. You cannot protest justice from a perspective of law, injustice from a perspective of law, injustice from a perspective of law breaking. So the idea is that we in America are judged as individuals. So if I am holding a sign and someone throws a brick, I am not accountable because someone throws a brick. I held my sign and, by the way, I take that ideologically neutral, so I've stood up, whether it's BLM protesters or January 6th protesters. If you commit an act of violence, you should be punished. If you commit an act of vandalism you should be punished, but if you were there when that was done, that is not on you unless you directed it. When that was done, that is not on you unless you directed it. So I really what I really oppose is the fact that left-wing prosecutors will prosecute right-wing protesters and right-wing prosecutors will prosecute left-wing protesters disproportionately, and what I think we need is a uniform set of regulations that says this is what protests, this is what is allowed, this is what's not allowed. If you do, if you vandalize the building, your punishment is a week in jail. If you um punch a cop, your punishment is 10 years in jail. I mean, if you whatever, whatever the penalty is. Maybe maybe that's not what the penalties are, but I'm just saying that it should be common. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:See, my problem is people pay too much attention to oh, these are right-wing insurrectionists or left-wing agitators. No, you should be judged for what you did, right, not for what you thought. Because in America it's legal to be a neo-Nazi right. It's legal to be a neo-nazi right. It's legal to be a neo-nazi. You're allowed to do that, right. You're not allowed to vandalize a building with a swastika right. But a vandalism. Vandalizing a building with a swastika should have the same penalty as vandalizing a building with a BLM slogan right? Because ultimately, both are vandalism and should be judged for the content of their actions, not the content of their ideas.
Speaker 1:All right, I have a question here Do you support reparations for the descendants of chattel slavery in the United States and would you support an anti-Black crime bill? Slash 2A in the wake of Peyton uh Gendron, gendron, gendron, gendron, gendron.
Speaker 2:I don't. I don't support reparations. I'll tell you why. It's because there are a lot of groups that have been oppressed in the United States and the reality is that I. What I don't want to start is, you know, every group can come in with I mean, and I, I, I number one, like I should say that child slavery was a uniquely evil crime. It was an evil crime, but the challenges that latino americans have been oppressed, gay americans have been oppressed. I mean in the 80s, any gay american, many of whom are alive today. People lost friends to aids, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's completely different, Completely different. I hear where you're going with this. I hear where you're going with it. It was a completely different situation, not only just the slavery, but then what happened after that, and so on and so forth. The crack era, the crack era and all.
Speaker 3:Crime bills.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I hear you and I don't have a problem with someone saying my father attempted to purchase a home and was denied a loan because he was black. I think there's a legitimate grievance against the bank. So I do believe banks should be able to be. I think the problem is you need what's called standing in order to sue. So I think it's the same principle to receive reparations, because the thing is, I understand that slavery was a uniquely evil crime, but there were uniquely horrible crimes, you know, against the Native Americans, against Latinos, against Asian Americans. I mean there was an instance in California, I believe, where a bunch of Asian Americans were, like purposefully drowned to death.
Speaker 3:Right, I mean there were and camps and all that. Trust me, I hear where you're coming from.
Speaker 1:I hear you.
Speaker 3:We sympathize with every group. I hear where you're coming from, I hear you and we sympathize with every group.
Speaker 1:I hear where you're coming from.
Speaker 3:Hold on, ron, I sympathize with every group you know what I'm saying Every group facing kind of atrocity. I'm not taking away from nobody, right, but for people of color, local Black people, who's 300 plus years, right, that's recorded where you were considered by law three fifths of a human being, where you were degraded, whatever, devalued, and then you know, 1865 came about where they say you're so-called free and they were still persecuted for the color of their skin. And you know, people had that mentality to hate them, prejudice for over their skin color. And they still today, some people still carry these, these, these notions in their mind that they have like this, this dislike for a person, for the color of their skin, because it's a social issue.
Speaker 2:So again, I mean, I don't disagree with any of that but, I think the challenge is how do you say we're?
Speaker 2:what I don't want to do is pick favorites, because the reality is america has, I mean, other than I think I was joking to someone because someone was asking me about this recently I was like, other than a few East coast wasps, everyone is the descendant of someone who's been pretty badly oppressed in some way in this country, right, um, and some of those are more recent and some of those are further away. My challenge is, I think, that any form of reparations will only exacerbate the divisions in this country, because everyone has a case why their group was oppressed. Don't disagree that slavery was a uniquely horrible crime. The Indian genocide was a uniquely horrible crime. The AIDS kind of extermination of gay people and the failure to respond was a uniquely horrible crime. The fact that women were denied rights for centuries is a uniquely horrible crime is a uniquely horrible crime. You know, the fact that Asians were um interned, uh in the um second world war was a uniquely horrible crime.
Speaker 2:So the thing is, I don't want. What I don't want to play is the oppression Olympics. You know what I mean. I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't want to play the oppression Olympics because the old, because what do you, what do you say about other people who were compensated for their oppression?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't think people were I mean my only, the only example that I understand were compensated was the Japanese Americans in World War Two were compensated, honestly, with cents on the dollar for property that was stolen from them, but for them they were actually common, it had to be them, right. So so you took my house, you were compensated, right, but the fact that so you had to have a lot of standing to do that, right. So? So for the most part we haven't compensated groups in the United States. So that's kind of my point. So if every other group was compensated and black America wasn't, then it would be different. But I I don't really think the united states has. So I think my concern is, like all this does is, again it starts in oppression olympics and again I think black america would would do well in the oppression olympics. I mean, a black america has been pretty well, pretty oppressed in American history.
Speaker 2:I'm not trying to say Black America probably hasn't been one of the most oppressed groups of all the groups that I listed. I'm just saying that I don't necessarily think that's where we need to go. What I think we need to do is stop the current discrimination against Black Americans, because I think in the field of economic inclusion, in terms of small businesses, black Americans and Black entrepreneurs are not taken seriously and they are actually being discriminated against in many cases and I think that's a problem. I think they're trying to. I think Black families are being discriminated against through the welfare system. I think Black communities are being discriminated against through a systematic defunding of the police, but also failure to invest in community policing. So I don't disagree that Black America is due an investment, but it's not reparations, it's an investment.
Speaker 3:I agree with the investment Okay.
Speaker 2:We'll let him go with that you don't have to agree, by the way, I honestly— no, no, no, it's not that I get where you're coming from.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no. It's not that I get what you're coming from, I get where you're coming from. Now I want to talk about give me some more about your company before we go. So let's say like, for an example, like let's say, mike and I we started an organization, right yeah, we started a not-for-profit.
Speaker 2:Like, how would you guys service our not-for-profit? Like, how would you guys service our not-for-profit? Well, uh, for the non-profit, I mean, if it was an ad, if it was a 501c3? We don't generally work with 501c3 like charities, unless the goal is to kind of promote them, um, but that's rare. Well, we generally work with non-profit advocacy groups. So tell me a cause that you guys are passionate about and I'll tell you how I would prosecute it.
Speaker 3:It's for community upliftment, political education, vocational training for the youth, anti-gang violence, sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, this is kind of a little bit of a riskier strategy. But have protests with security at all the major gang intersections, the place where they do the drugs right, that they do the drug dealing and all of whatever their illicit activity, and I would have people outside saying there's a better way, you don't need to do this, so we'll really kill them with kindness, so to speak. So to basically say there's a better way, invest in yourself and then have statistics like your average gang member is dead in five years. Right, your average gang member is either dead or in prison in two years, three years, right, you know, your average gang member has a life expectancy of 28,. Right, you know.
Speaker 2:So just illuminate these statistics about gang members, but in a in a way that works with how people are, but shine a light on them, right, and and then have film crews out there where, if they're reacting and ain't really to them, show that on camera, expose it and have people in the community turn out and say, hey, this is wrong and what you know, and and use that as a vehicle to stand up, because the problem is it's this world war of like gangs versus the police, and then a lot of people are like well, which is worse? The gangs are thugs, but the police are thugs too. But actually having people shine a light and say, get this the heck out of our neighborhoods, it doesn't serve our kids or our communities. We want to own shit, and the only way we're going to own shit is if we get the gangs off the streets.
Speaker 3:I go back. When invested in the community, I go. I hear what you're saying with that.
Speaker 2:You don't shine a light on that because the other thing, mikey, is that is the other thing I would probably do is protest the banks. I will protest all the big banks, because all the big banks are telling us Stop.
Speaker 1:Hold on. Why should we protest the banks?
Speaker 2:They're not investing in the community. They should be. They should be investing billions. They do all these press conferences where, like Jamie Diamond, or all these, like big I met him.
Speaker 2:Are out there saying, oh well, we're investing in the black community, but when I go in predominantly black neighborhoods I generally don't see the results of those investments right. I think I want you should be demanding, not from the government and the taxpayers, but from the biggest banks to say invest in us, right, Invest in our community. Because ultimately, if you give um the same loans that you give to white entrepreneurs in white neighborhoods, to black entrepreneurs in black neighborhoods, you're going to make a lot of progress. And if you have more owners I would put these things on notice is we demand that you make these investments in our neighborhood? And part of that is to me. I don't believe that. I don't want to do reparations as a country, but I do believe that the banks the same banks that denied loans to Black people for years should invest in those Black communities. So I would put the banks on notice. They better invest, they better build and create jobs.
Speaker 1:I would protest the construction companies saying if you're going to build in our neighborhood, you better employ people in our neighborhood that makes sense so I just said something about protesting before, before you guys even reached out, and I was saying you know, uh, someone, sheik El said, sheik El said something about protests, something about protesting doesn't work or something to that, that that alluding to that, and then I said it's not about the protest is about what you're protesting about and who you're protesting against.
Speaker 3:It's the strategy, because you know, no, no, no firm wants bad public. They don't want bad PR, they don't want a reputation on the news Like, oh my God, you got me in the news. Now You're hurting the integrity of the business and such and such. So I get what he's saying. Protest the banks to put more investments in the neighborhood. Claim that you care.
Speaker 2:So one big, big mistake, people do is they protest their antagonist rather than their friends, but they're their shitty friend, you know, because if you protest Trump, it's not going to work right Because Trump isn't. I mean, I guess he says he cares about the black community, but he doesn't really care that much. I mean, I guess he says he cares about the Black community, but he doesn't really care that much. But if you can protest the people who say that they care but who don't- I got you, that's my opinion I got you.
Speaker 3:We gotta have you come back on there.
Speaker 1:We gotta we would love to have you back, because we have some things to talk about yeah, and I, I, I hate the, the meat, the media angle when he speaks.
Speaker 3:I'm like oh, I see he's good he's good, he's good, he's good, he's good, he's good, I got you, I got you, man, you know what?
Speaker 1:and also man uh shouts out to him man, congratulations on on a solid business, you know you started off when you were really, really young, and now you're 34. Thriving business man. More power to you man, Much respect to you man.
Speaker 2:And I appreciate you guys for what you guys are doing. And when next time in New York I'll come in, We'll do it in person.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, yeah we're. We're going to start in person this month.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, yeah, we're going to start in person this month.
Speaker 2:Oh that's awesome. That's awesome. I think it's great what you're doing, and I think it's important that people more independent speak up, because this is an age dominated by the extremes that Ocasio-Cortez, the Trumps, who are really just two sides of the same coin. And I want I think a vast majority of people just want common sense. They want, they want, they, they support entrepreneurship, they want safe streets, they support justice for people of all races and religions and ethnicities. They want, you know, they want a fair playing field. You know and, and, and I think you guys generally share that value. I know we don't a hundred percent agree on the reparation thing, but I think you guys generally share that value. I know we don't 100% agree on the reparation thing, but I think generally we share a lot of the same values.
Speaker 1:And I really like that. Yes, sir, yes, sir. On that note, thank you for coming out this evening. I really appreciate you. Come back again, especially in person. That'll be great and we will stay in contact. You know, tell everybody where they can find you on X. I think X is one of the places.
Speaker 2:I'm on X slash Twitter at CEO Adam Swart, so CEO, and then my name Adam S-W-A-R-T. You can check us out online crowdsondemandcom. That's crowdsondemandcom. That's crowdsondemandcom. So yeah, if you have a cause or a company that needs to be promoted and needs a little leg up, to just kind of a catalyst to get people to notice and pay attention, let us know. We always are interested. So I so appreciate your guys' time and I look forward to continuing the conversation.
Speaker 3:Definitely, most definitely, we have to go forward.
Speaker 1:Have a good evening and we're out of here, peace.