How the Music Industry Hip Hop Destroyed - Clip Wilson

"The music industry didn't destroy hip-hop. We destroyed hip-hop when we allowed the music industry to dictate what we do." This powerful statement from sound expert Clip Wilson frames our deep dive into the evolution and decline of hip-hop culture.

Join host Ron About LMT (Soul Brother Number One) and guest Clip Wilson as they trace hip-hop's journey from its birth in 1970s New York street culture through its golden age in the 80s, the conscious era of the early 90s, and into its gradual surrender to commercial interests. Their conversation unveils how a culture created for artistic expression and community representation slowly lost its soul as it gained mainstream popularity.

The discussion makes crucial distinctions between hip-hop culture and Black culture, explaining how one can be Black without participating in hip-hop, which was specifically born from poor Black communities expressing their lived experiences. Wilson offers fascinating insights into how artists from different eras shaped the culture, from the impact of Wu-Tang Clan to the problematic influence of inauthentic voices like Vanilla Ice and later Drake, whom Wilson calls "the Elvis of rap music."

Most compelling is their analysis of how hip-hop participants themselves allowed the culture to be diluted by embracing performers with no connection to street urban experiences, leading to what Wilson describes as "cardboard culture" – a superficial imitation lacking authentic foundation. The recent public rejection of these inauthentic voices suggests a potential cultural renaissance that might reconnect hip-hop with its roots.

Want to understand why authentic hip-hop heads celebrate when inauthentic voices are exposed? Listen now to this enlightening conversation between two knowledgeable cultural analysts who've witnessed hip-hop's transforma

Fit, Healthy & Happy Podcast
Welcome to the Fit, Healthy and Happy Podcast hosted by Josh and Kyle from Colossus...

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Chapters

• 12:26 [Ad] Fit, Healthy & Happy Podcast
• 13:12 (Cont.) How the Music Industry Hip Hop Destroyed - Clip Wilson

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:12

what's going on? Everybody? It's ron about lmt, the people's fitness professional, aka soul brother number one. We are on the check-in, oh yeah, and I'm reporting for duty, soul brother number one. Reporting for duty. I'm here with the brother Clip Wilson. Hey, mr Wilson, all right, I see that. Peace to you, mr Wilson. Clip Wilson Clip. I want you to introduce or reintroduce yourself to the people and explain to the people who you are, what you do, so they could understand how valid your opinion on music and information is.

Speaker 2: 0:50

I'm Cliff Wilson, the sound man to your favorite producer. So your favorite producer probably comes to me for sounds to make the beats that you like to dance to to. I've worked with a few people. You know sean clv, wale, jim jones, troy, ave, my brother, marvino beach, loaded lux. A bunch of people. Uh, we know, we got records with joey badass abso. A bunch of people, we just, we just, but we low-key with it.

Speaker 1: 1:20

So you know right that's, that's who I am, indeed. So now let's, let's go into it. We're talking about how the music industry destroyed hip-hop, and then you said we destroyed we destroyed hip-hop.

Speaker 2: 1:35

All right, the music, the music industry, was the music industry before hip-hop came around. So the music industry didn't destroy hip-hop. We destroyed hip-hop when we allowed the music industry didn't destroy hip hop. We destroyed hip hop when we allowed the music industry to dictate what we do. You know what I'm saying. So, like we first came into this, to this, when we first created this culture, as we know, hip hop and hip hop music, shall I say, because the other industries really ain't really destroyed. As far as like break dancing and all that other stuff, it's not really destroyed. But hip hop music, when we created, really ain't really destroyed. As far as breakdancing and all that other stuff, it's not really destroyed.

Speaker 2: 2:05

But hip-hop music, when we created it, we didn't create it for money purposes initially. We created it for the love of the art form and to get respect from our peers. It became a business once we decided to put our art form on a physical product such as cassette tapes, vinyl, things of that nature. You get what I'm saying. Okay, once we, it started out great. But once we started trading our souls and our morality for dollars, it all went left field when we, when we started, how can I say it, I don't want to curse, but when we started pooping on each other, on our own people, for dollars and flaunting each other's faces and belittling each other, we destroyed the art form, we destroyed our culture.

Speaker 1: 3:07

Okay, so can you give me a brief, like you know, a summarized version of the history, um on like how it started, like how hip-hop, or how hip-hop started, and then, when was the change? When was the?

Speaker 2: 3:19

change. So we all know hip-hop started early 70s. Probably around 73, is when the you know, the first announcement of the first hip-hop party that's documented on paper started. We all know that all hip-hop parties started from street gang culture, you know. So the gangs of the 60s and the 70s, as we know, the black spade, black spades and, um, things of that nature they basically those members of those generations, the people of that generation, created the culture of hip-hop, right. So, as we all know, it started with the DJ first, then the MC, then the B-Boys and graffiti and all other things that was going on in the street just adapted to that culture and the parties, all other things that was going on in the street just adapted to that culture and the parties. It became a melting pot of multiple different races and cultures, even though it was originally created by Black people. As we know, there were a lot of participants that helped to make this culture grow, such as the Puerto Ricans, such as a few white people. We're not going to sit there and try to play them out either, because they were all part of it. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 4:32

In the 80s is when it really, really, really popped off. You know what I'm saying and when it started to become a little bit more bigger than outside of the five boroughs. So we know, with the emergence of Run DMC, ll Cool J, curtis Blow and all of them brothers in the early 80s, they took it to where it started becoming, to where we can perform in arenas and not just little hole-in-the-wall spots or clubs like the Latin Quarters and such and the Roxy and all of that. So late 80s is when it really and the Roxy and all of that so late 80s is when it really started to become a legit business. We had the emergence of record labels like Def Jam, tommy Boy, you know these little labels came in and started signing local acts from New York. Then the major labels started coming in, as we all know, signing acts like NWA and all these other labels, all these other acts to help the culture grow.

Speaker 2: 5:38

And during that time the culture still stood for something. We knew the record labels were shady. We knew that from the beginning, but we still held firm with our culture. You know what I'm saying. We still held strong. We still were, you know, supporting each other. It was still more of a unity thing amongst hip-hop in New York, shall I say Because New York had a thing where we were downplaying every other region outside of Philly, that wasn't. New York had a thing where we were downplaying every other region outside of Philly. That wasn't New York. Right, philly and New Jersey. Let me say we was basically disrespecting every other region okay.

Speaker 1: 6:18

Was it the people in the culture disrespecting every other region? Or was it the music industry, maybe lighting the fire underneath that, instigating that situation?

Speaker 2: 6:29

it was a little bit of both, because a lot of people in the streets I remember this, the older generation if you wasn't from new york, bro, you was getting booed, you was getting things tossed and chewed. You was getting tossed, disrespected. You had to basically earn your respect within the culture because back then everybody, if you couldn't make nothing dope, you was getting called out for it. You know what I'm saying, even though, when you're looking back, even the stuff that we thought was dope was kind of trash too. You know what I mean. But we just had this New York City pride thing where we was. You know what I mean, but we just had this new york city pride thing right where we was.

Speaker 2: 7:07

You know, disrespecting other greek cultures and other regions, shall I say, and that's what basically caused a rift with us and people from other regions. Quiet is kept right, you know I mean. So a lot of these regions fyi, new york dudes, new York, we don't need y'all. Once they started making money and emerging in their towns and their regions and becoming popular in their regions and realizing that they didn't need New York, a lot of pushback came from them Towards the 90s. Labels got bigger, artists got bigger, the culture got big, but it was a section where infiltrators started to infiltrate the culture with acts like vanilla ice.

Speaker 1: 7:53

You know what I'm saying with acts like hold on you, you, you, you um miss the beastie boys.

Speaker 2: 7:58

I don't. The beastie boys were authentic to the culture, it's not. It's not just. It's not just about you being white right, because I don't want people to understand that right At the time, beastie Boys were very authentic to the culture.

Speaker 1: 8:10

They were in the club. They were punk rock. They were like a punk rock group. They were a punk rock group.

Speaker 2: 8:14

You got to remember. Hip-hop took from all forms and all genres of music. Okay, hip-hop was never just boom-bap, and a lot of people forget that too. Hip-hop, our roots, started with records from the jazz, south rock records, white records, it didn't matter. Our culture was based on taking music from the past and flipping it and rearranging it. Hip-hop and punk rock at that time were very intertwined in that early time. They were very intertwined culturally because we both had a rebel culture amongst them. You know what I'm saying. We both had a rebel attitude amongst both cultures. That's where the Beastie Boys came in, because they understood what hip-hop was. They were never not hip-hop, they was always white boys who did punk rock and rap at the same time. It's just, as we got older, as the culture grew, we started to shift away from punk rock. But let's be real King of Rock is a run-DMC record and it's a rock and roll sample.

Speaker 1: 9:24

Right.

Speaker 2: 9:26

You know what I'm saying? Walk this Rock is a Run-DMC record and it's a rock and roll sample. Right, you know what I'm saying? Walk this Way is a. You know what I'm saying? It's a rock and roll sample. It's always been a part of our culture. You know what I'm saying? Rick Rubin is a huge rock guy but, as we know, he incorporated all of that into hip-hop culture. So, yes, the Beastie Boys are part of the culture. They're guests in black culture. Yes, hip-hop culture is different things, two different things, and I think a lot of people confuse the two Hip-hop culture and black culture. Hip-hop culture was created from black culture of people that was in poverty, but hip-hop culture embraced all cultures.

Speaker 1: 10:11

Right, indeed you get what I'm saying For sure, for sure. So now the timeline that you gave us right, you gave us the early 70s. So there were other record labels that were oh yeah. So I guess they were, um, like independent labels, like what about that label, sugar hill, sugar hill's label?

Speaker 2: 10:35

yeah, yeah, sugar hill was basically that they basically signed the. You know they basically put out the first hip-hop record to the mainstream. We all know Sugar Hill Gang Rapper's Delight. Funny thing about Rapper's Delight is it was hated by the authentic hip-hop heads.

Speaker 1: 10:53

That's for sure. Yo Peace, peace, ab the Light. Did anyone hear his music review, his album review last week? This is a dope artist right here, man, and I'm going to always say it, man, you surprised me, man. Give us some new heat, brother, give us some new heat. Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 11:13

Salute to you, brother, salute to you. But, like I was saying the early days, you know what's my guy's name off the top of my head Melly Mellon. They hated hip-hop. They hated hip-hop. Delight hip-hop. Uh, yeah, yeah rappers delight rappers delight. Right, excuse me, they hated rappers delight. It's funny because that generation was haters anyway yo. They hated anybody that was to this day.

Speaker 1: 11:44

To this day, yo, it's just it better than them, right?

Speaker 2: 11:46

they hated anything that popped off before them, because we all know Melly, mel Kaz and all of them. They were stars in the coaching Reddits Flash Furious 5, treacherous 3, cold Crush Brothers. Salute to all the brothers. Much, much respect and praise to all of them. Right? But they, I guess they didn't like the record because it wasn't authentic to what hip-hop was doing on the streets. Right, it took the radio by storm and then they eventually grew to like the record, but initially they hated it. It wasn't hip-hop, it wasn't authentic to hip-hop. And they didn't put Kaz on the record, but they took a whole kaz verse wait, hold on.

Speaker 1: 13:07

So rappers delight. Kaz was supposed to put b on that, yeah they took the whole cat.

Speaker 2: 13:13

I'm the c-a-z and the m-a-s and the d and the double d, all of that. Kaz wrote I got a lincoln continental and a sunroof cadillac.

Speaker 1: 13:21

I didn't even realize that.

Speaker 2: 13:24

That's a Grandmaster Kaz verse. He spells his name out. He's spelling out Grandmaster Kaz, but they didn't throw him on the record and he ain't getting no money from it. Wow, wow, that's crazy If you really want to get technical. That's what we sold ourselves out right then and there right there, but what?

Speaker 1: 13:50

what record label was it?

Speaker 2: 13:51

her name was sylvia, or something like that right yeah, yeah sylvia room also a lot of sugar hill records. The first label to sign naughty by nature too a lot of people don't know that Right. And the first label to sign what's her called, too. What's her name. Rest in peace, angie Stone.

Speaker 1: 14:11

Okay, yeah, so Angie, that was the first record label to sign Angie Stone. You said yes.

Speaker 2: 14:18

Angie Stone. Angie Stone was a hip-hop act first. She's a background female vocalist for hip-hop acts first. So ring ding dong, ding, ding, ding, ding dong. That's her. Yeah Right, the song that everybody gives Dr Dre the credit for. That's a sample from Andy Stone.

Speaker 1: 14:35

Wow, that's crazy, crazy, crazy. You get what I'm saying, so like a lot of my anybody in the chat knew that probably not good right?

Speaker 2: 14:50

so um, getting back into the timeline, you know, sugar hill basically ushered it in as far as black acts and black hip-hop acts and getting to the mainstream. The first hip-hop record to really sell records a lot of records was Curtis Blow, christmas Rapid. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Now don't you give me all that jive about the thing before I was a lot. That's the first record to really sell records. I think that's the first gold record in hip-hop, right, okay? And since we're talking about when hip-hop fell, in my opinion hip-hop started.

Speaker 2: 15:40

A lot of people blame NWA. A lot of people say around 86, 87, when NWA came and brought that what the industry labeled as gangster rap. They say that's when hip-hop started to take its first downfall, because hip-hop prior to that wasn't about killing, wasn't about shooting, wasn't about that type of, about shooting, wasn't about, you know, that type of entertainment in the music. But in reality it was reality music, it was reality rap. For the west coast, right it's. They were telling their story similar to how grandmaster flash, nefarious five, was telling their story, with the message it was just more raw and uncut, coming from the West Coast and the West Coast didn't start gangster rap, so we got to stop that too. Psk is making this. All of that was gangster rap first.

Speaker 1: 16:36

Right, right and Philly.

Speaker 2: 16:38

Yeah, philly, you had Coogee Rap doing it too.

Speaker 1: 16:43

And PSK. I think that's Parkside Killers and that was in the 80s.

Speaker 2: 16:49

That was in the 80s. You get what I'm saying. Hip hop came from street urban culture. So the thing is, the streets was always going to tell their story. It's going to start off a certain way, but when it's, when it's coming from the streets, the streets is no holds barred, right. So eventually it's going to become raw, rough and rugged, right. And if you notice it, when it, when it got, when it went to that rough, raw, rugged stage, that rough, raw, rugged stage lasted for about a good 15 to 20 years. Right, you had acts that came in between De La Soul, jungle Brothers, queen Latifah, but they were still somewhat street. They just didn't talk about shooting and killing all day. Right, right, right. I call that era the Black Power era of hip hop Right, yep, right.

Speaker 1: 17:52

That was. That was the era that that molded and shaped me they molded and shaped most.

Speaker 2: 17:56

We're at the same age, so it molded and shaped most of us. You know. Fight the power right. Black medallions, black boy simpson shirts yeah, yeah cross colors, all these black owned brands, carcanar walk away like we were.

Speaker 2: 18:12

we were, we were taught, especially up where we came from. We were taught black power, black pride. So that era of hip hop probably shaped us the most when it comes to our origins, because we were kids, young, so we didn't really get to see that. We saw it from a kid's lens but we didn't get to see it from an adult lens of that era of them being the hottest, biggest acts on the planet.

Speaker 1: 18:43

Right.

Speaker 2: 18:44

You know what I'm saying. By the time we was 10, 12, the biggest acts on the planet was Dr Dre, ice Cube, snoop Dogg, biggie. You know what I'm saying? Around that time, that's when we got to see all of that Right, right, rock him and them.

Speaker 1: 18:59

We was seven eight maybe, yo, but I'm going to tell you though, but it was better than us. Yo, because remember they were making the videos and all that in the hood.

Speaker 2: 19:11

Yeah, in the hood. So we got to see it. It was a different thing for us than the world, because we got to see it up close yeah, up close and personal. We were living the culture that everybody else was imitating. We was born into it, so it was like this was a norm for us. Right, you got to remember, in some places, hip-hop didn't exist.

Speaker 1: 19:36

Right.

Speaker 2: 19:37

Remember that I.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Ain't no Joke was made in a record park.

Speaker 2: 19:41

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying, I Ain't no Joke was in a record park Video shot on 2, 5th you know what I'm saying? Like Juice was shot on Carvin, like all of this culture that we embraced in New York, georgia didn't have that. Georgia didn't have a video music box. La didn't have a video music box. They didn't have these. We got it first because we created the culture. So what we were into was what New York was into, right. Right, we look at it from a different lens. Prime example of the NYP talk show we're looking at this from the perspective of people who were born and bred and birthed. Our uncles and aunts and them created this hip hop culture. We're the first descendants of children, technically, of this hip hop culture. The culture was created by those that were born in the late 50s and 60s. Actual fact, we were the first children. Technically, we're the first children of hip-hop culture.

Speaker 1: 20:50

Yeah, if you look at yeah, you're right about that. Yo, like coming up in that era, right, like, as you say, like we're the first children, what I can remember is all the new shit coming out and you heard it through the windows, you heard it in the cars, you heard it in the little corner stores. You heard it everywhere. You heard LL. You heard EPMD, like all the New York acts. You heard it everywhere. You heard LL. You heard EPMD All the New York acts. You heard it all. You even heard Luke when his shit got popping Florida. That song took New York over at one point.

Speaker 2: 21:30

But it took New York over because those kids from New York were graduating high school and going to college Right, and they were going to college in Atlanta, we were going to college in Florida, we were going to college all across America. Now we're taking hip-hop culture that's in New York and bringing it to them, and they're bringing their culture to us and we're bringing it back to new york, right right, right, peace, peace, our divine peace god peace, god.

Speaker 2: 22:04

Right. So that's what we did like, that's what the culture did in itself, right? So, exactly, shawnee. Most places didn't have the proper elements in place for hip hop to exist there initially, so our culture had to give everybody else the format, the blueprint. We had to give it to them for them to, to, to, because when they, when they were trying to imitate what hip hop was, we were shitting on no, no, that's whack. That's whack. That's not authentic. You can't do that. No, that's whack. That's whack. That's not authentic. You can't do that, that's whack. We were criticized, remember? We were criticizing artists like hammer and vanilla, ice and millie vanillie. Nah, you can't do that. We don't care if you sell a million records that ain't authentic to what we do. Right, right, hip-hop took a toll, took a turn when we allowed these suckers to come in here, imitate our culture and give them a pass, because they were making money okay, can you give me an example and let's start from the first.

Speaker 1: 23:10

Let's start from the beginning prime example.

Speaker 2: 23:13

I'm gonna get to the first, but prime example To me. The first example well, vanilla ice is to me is when I remember right, he was the first Doom, doom, doom, do the doom, doom, doom, doom doom, doom, do the doom doom.

Speaker 1: 23:28

You can't say Hammer, mc Hammer.

Speaker 2: 23:30

Nah, because Hammer was really. Hammer was a hip-hop head, but he was really a Christian hip-hop head. Okay, he was street, but he was street off-camera Because we hear the stories he was dead serious about. Don't play with me, I'm from this environment but I'm not trying to present this environment to the world. I'm a dancing, rapping, cool rapping dude Because Hammer came around in time as a young MC with Busta Move and all that Right yeah, right so, and Tone Loke and all of them you know the Wild Thing and all that era.

Speaker 2: 24:12

Like Hammer was cool, but Hammer wasn't like he didn't. Hammer didn't speak for our culture in the streets. He was a cool act. He was like a what you would call like a Michael Jackson of hip hop at that time. You know he was like a Michael Jackson figure but he wasn't like hardcore cats in the hood wasn't bumping Hammer. We just saw him on TV, right, right, like we wasn't. I don't remember nobody in the hood like in the cars bumping too legit to quit. I just don't remember that. We always saw it on tv right right, I can't speak for oakland.

Speaker 2: 24:49

I don't know what they were doing in oakland. I'm not gonna say he didn't get no burn in oakland because he's from oakland.

Speaker 1: 24:53

I don't know but you heard it at barbecues. You heard it don't know. You heard it at barbecues. You heard MC Hammer at barbecues.

Speaker 2: 24:59

But that was probably on somebody's radio. That was just dead on commercial radio.

Speaker 1: 25:03

Right, nobody was like yo throw that hammer on.

Speaker 2: 25:11

I don't know nobody that purchased the Hammer album I don't and he sold a lot of records. I'm not taking nothing away from Hammer. Hammer did his thing. Vanilla Ice was like the White Hammer. Right, right, he was like the White Hammer. I'm going to be the white boy with the flat top. I'm going to start doing hip-hop dance moves. I'm going to do all this stuff. We knew he was a clown. So much to us in our culture, he was like he's a clown, go, ninja, go, ninja, go. He was so much of a clown Jim Carrey had to imitate him on A Living Color as a spoof. To be like. This is a super clown Because you look like you don't even look like you fit in with this culture. Naturally, right right come to find out you didn't. The song was written for you by somebody. Black right wrote the whole album, actually wrote your whole album, didn't get no real credit for him and this is why you got supposedly hung out of a window and what is that?

Speaker 1: 26:17

doing now, though he's rich, yeah right, he's super rich.

Speaker 2: 26:23

He does real estate, he does landscaping, he does all of that. He's super rich. He made a lot of money and he always sold records, even when we didn't support him. So this is what I'm saying, like he was one of those type of artists where it's like alright, hip-hop culture is not supporting Vanilla Ice after the Ninja Turtle movie, technically right After the Ninja Turtles 2 movie, we ain't really messing with Vanilla Ice like that.

Speaker 1: 26:46

You know what's so funny? That's an actual fact right there, because yo I wasn't dancing, I wasn't dancing, I was dancing in a little MC Hammer, a little bit, yeah, a little bit, a little.

Speaker 2: 26:58

Ken Sukses. Dude, a little Ken Sukses. We know Bob. Yeah, you know Actually.

Speaker 1: 27:02

I was nice with the Running man back in the days. I was the Running man, I was the Running man king. But the Vanilla Ice joint, ah, that joint.

Speaker 2: 27:12

Yeah, we really did.

Speaker 1: 27:13

And then after the Go Ninja, go Ninja, that was a wrap, it was a wrap.

Speaker 2: 27:18

After Go, ninja, go, yeah, you out of here. B, we got you up out of here, but remember he was never really of our culture. I'm going to correlate him with somebody that's relevant right now. He was never really of our culture but he still went platinum. He was still going platinum on his second album, his third album, fourth album. We didn't care because he wasn't part of our culture to begin with. Right While he was selling records, we moved on. Already You're out of here, sell your records. We don't care. Do your thing. We started to grow dreads. I don't know if y'all remember this. We started growing dreads after the flat top, all of this imitating black culture thing that somebody currently is doing right now with the accents we gonna correlate this into.

Speaker 1: 28:19

I know where you're going with that one, right.

Speaker 2: 28:22

Because after it went through spurts, because after Vanilla Ice he had Snow Yo hold on, hold, on, hold on, hold on.

Speaker 1: 28:33

Snow was dope son, we can't run on.

Speaker 2: 28:36

Snow Snow Wrecking was fire. We're not going to take that away from Informa. Informa was fire, but he was doing exactly what somebody's doing right now.

Speaker 1: 28:43

Wait, hold on. But Snow is not from any kind of like West Indian spot. No, he's like a fraud, fraud.

Speaker 2: 28:51

He's not from. He's not a fraud. Fraud, I thought he was a.

Speaker 1: 28:53

He's from Jamaica, no.

Speaker 2: 28:57

Okay, damn Boom, I'm going to mess you up. After Snow, we had what was they called Black teenagers, something like that.

Speaker 1: 29:11

Young black teenagers.

Speaker 2: 29:12

They was a whole white boy.

Speaker 1: 29:14

Swiss the cap. The bottle. End Swiss the cap, look was a whole white boy. Tap the bottle in Twist the cap. Tap the bottle in.

Speaker 2: 29:20

You can't put on that song Right, tap the bottle, twist the cap. It was fire. Yeah, they were four white boys. Remember there were three or four of them, and one of them is in House Party 2. I don't remember that he's House Party 2. He's kid's roommate in college.

Speaker 1: 29:48

Wait, hold on One of them. Right is like a famous DJ or something like that.

Speaker 2: 29:53

Yes, Right, hold on. I'm going to break it down. First off, I don't even know how hip-hop allowed this. How do we allow a group of four white boys to come in and call themselves young black teenagers?

Speaker 1: 30:11

Yo, I never thought of that. They should have got beat up or something. This is what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 30:19

And then you wind up and then you have the main, the best rapper out the crew, the one with the dreads, the white boy dreads. Right, he's in House 42 with Kenneth Blake. He's the white boy roommate and they clowned him Like who, this white boy?

Speaker 1: 30:35

they keep black okay, I gotta, I gotta remind that I'm 42, they're going.

Speaker 2: 30:42

You see him. He's still trying to hold the image I'm like she's talking about. I'm rolling dice, I'm doing all this and that like whoa, what is this? You know who came in right after them? Who, alchemist? But Alchemist is fine, though. He wasn't a producer at the time, he was a rapper wait, what about?

Speaker 1: 31:07

if we talking about Alchemist, you gotta talk about third base not only third base. You gotta talk about third base is official.

Speaker 2: 31:16

Yeah, they from New York, so we get it. They official rappers base. Not only third base you gotta talk about, but third base is official. Third base is official, yeah, they from New York, so we get it.

Speaker 1: 31:19

They official rappers. They were kicking that knowledge.

Speaker 2: 31:24

Third base. We gonna get him Shout out to MF Doom because he was part of that crew too, so we gonna give him all his credit. Mf Doom was a part of that too. He was the black guy. You remember he was the black guy with the glasses, black guy. And you don't remember he was the black guy with the glasses.

Speaker 1: 31:35

MF Dune was a part of that group. And what's the name of that other group? Dm something, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:41

Damn, you don't remember. He was in. He was in all of their videos.

Speaker 1: 31:48

Bro, damn, you just hit me, damn, damn.

Speaker 2: 31:52

See.

Speaker 1: 31:53

He's on live at the barbecue and all of that. This is why, when Cl is talking, you gotta listen. This is why, when clip is talking, you gotta listen. Now, um, okay, damn so, we got, we got. What's that? What's that group we just mentioned just now? Young black teenagers, no, no, um, we mf doom. Third base, third base. And then there was another crew. There was another crew. There was, oh no, drew High, drew High, bootcamp.

Speaker 2: 32:19

Click Drew High Drew. Yeah, drew High was with Bootcamp Click. He was with the brothers, he was all with the brothers, right.

Speaker 1: 32:25

Right, he was all with the brothers though, yeah, and technically, Bootcamp Click is Decepticons.

Speaker 2: 32:32

That's DCEP right. For those that don't know about New York City history, salute to the DCEP, Much respect.

Speaker 1: 32:38

We gotta get the DCEP on this podcast in person, though.

Speaker 2: 32:44

Salute to the DCEP, salute to the Polo Gang, polo Crew. All of that. Salute to all of that, because that birthed hip-hop, fashion and culture and things that made us what we were in the 90s, in the late 80s and 90s, right. It made us what we were right. So there's always I don't care if they from brooklyn, I don't care where they from they elevated our culture in new york city, right, right, they brought it. They brought prolo fashion to the streets. They made us go into them stores and look at Tommy Hilfiger and Nautica and all that. If it wasn't for them, we didn't even care about that fashion at the time. If it wasn't for them going in there like, hold on, this is tough. We stealing it, right, because that's what hip hop really is. We stealing all your old music and flipping it and making it our own. Right, we did it with fashion. That our old music, and flipping it and making it our own. We did it with fashion. That's why hip-hop died. Hip-hop is resetting itself, but it died. It went dead for a while.

Speaker 2: 33:45

After that emergence of the white boys, we got all the white boys out of here, most of them outside of Alchemist, if you really pay attention, we got most of them out of here, anything that really wasn't authentic 100%. You gotta go Now. Everybody has participated and added their input in their creativity or whatever they felt like they wanted to add to the culture. Everybody has done it, from young, old, white, black, indian, spanish, they all have done it. But throughout the years, hip-hop will move you out of here. If you ain't authentic, we not going to praise you for a very long time. We'll, like your little record, tap our feet, bounce to it Ha ha ha. It's cool. Yeah, ha, get up out of here. And it's happening to somebody right now. He can't handle it. It's quietly happening, yeah, and it's happening to somebody right now and he can't handle it. It's quietly happening. Yeah, you cool, but you got to get up out of here now. You had a nice long run, but it's time to go Right. Then we went into the Kendrick held that out.

Speaker 1: 34:46

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:48

A lot of people. It was a lot of people. It was a build-up. It was a build-up Right.

Speaker 1: 34:57

I want you to explain that, but we want to stay on this topic though.

Speaker 2: 35:00

Yeah, we're going to stay on this topic but because it's all about a reset of hip-hop culture or it's a resurrection of its death. So then we get into the culture of the Wu-Tangs, the Nas's, the Biggie's. This is when I say that this was the second renaissance era of hip-hop.

Speaker 1: 35:17

Right, the first renaissance is what?

Speaker 2: 35:21

First renaissance is the 86, 87, 88 run the 89. So that's like Def Jam. Yeah, it's the Def Jam. Ll Slick, rick Rakim, big Daddy Kane, cool G Rap.

Speaker 1: 35:35

That's what they call the golden era.

Speaker 2: 35:36

Yeah, d-nice, that's the golden era. 88 is the greatest year in hip-hop history. If you go and look at all the albums that came out from that time in that one year, it's the greatest era in hip-hop and it birthed that era, birthed all the rap styles that we have to this day. Everybody raps like somebody from that era.

Speaker 1: 35:58

Ah, you sure. What about Jadakiss? Where did he get his style from?

Speaker 2: 36:01

Jadakiss raps like those from that era. Jadakiss is a mixture of KRS-One and Big Daddy King Okay, you just got to listen carefully. But he's part of that. So is Styles P, you got to remember. Styles P is really a product of Big Daddy Kane, krs-one, chuck D and G-Rap. If you put it all together, I'm a product of all of that. I'm going to give you the consciousness of Chuck D, but I'm still just as street as G-Rap. But I can talk slick like Daddy Kane, but I'm still going to tell you I'm black like KRS-One got you.

Speaker 2: 36:48

You just got to understand that all of those elements shape everybody. After that it shaped everybody Wu, everybody. After that it shaped everybody Wu-Tang, tupac, nwa. It shaped that era, shaped everybody, because Ice Cube was just NWA was just the East Coast version of Public Enemy. I mean the West Coast version of Public Enemy. It was the same message, same type of outfits. Instead of wearing the black bombers that we had in New York, the black starter jackets, they were wearing Raider coats and they were militant. But they were militant on some. West Coast. We were militant on some. What we saw on the streets of New York City. They were militant on what? West coast, right, we were militant on some. What we saw on the streets of new york city. They were militant what they saw in la actual fact. Right, so it's the same. It's two sides of a coin. And they, you know, they hit. Record is a houdini record. Boys in the hood is literally houdini, but that's neither here nor there hold on hold on boys in the Hood is a Houdini record.

Speaker 2: 37:52

Yeah, Boys in the Hood is I'm a hoe from Houdini.

Speaker 1: 38:00

Hold on, hold on hold on you talking about I'm a hoe, you know Okay.

Speaker 2: 38:11

We riding in the east. It's the same as I'm a hoe. You know, I'm a hoe. I ride three different rates after Cruising down the street. In my sister it's the same record dog.

Speaker 1: 38:26

Wow, okay, I got to check that out.

Speaker 2: 38:29

They just did it in a West Coast way, right.

Speaker 1: 38:33

Shawnee is on. You should have been on the show he at work or something. Yeah, he at work.

Speaker 2: 38:38

Salute to Shawnee. Salute to Shawnee. Yeah, you get what I'm saying. It's what they just took, what we did and just did it in a West Coast way. Every region has done it. It's the only time they've done it in their own way, authentic to their region. Right? People say G-Funk, all that West Coast Parliament Funkadelic stuff. They always try to say that that is West Coast Hip-Hop. No, it's not, it's Hip-Hop. Epmd took the same exact samples. Epmd took the same exact funk records you get what I'm saying it's not West Coast sound, it's Parliament Funkadelic.

Speaker 1: 39:25

George Clinton is from New Jersey hold on hold on hold, on hold, on hold on. Let me fact check your joint right now. Go look it up Parliament.

Speaker 2: 39:34

Funkadelic George Clinton is from. Hold on, let me fact check your joint right now. Hold on, go look it up. Parliament. Funkadelic George Clinton is originally from New Jersey, just like Ice-T is from New Jersey. Ice-t is from New Jersey. He's originally from New Jersey.

Speaker 1: 39:45

Ah Yo West Coast man Yo we.

Speaker 2: 39:49

Oh, man, and listen, the West Coast is just like New York, bro. We got to stop acting like they're just like New York, like there's no real difference, right? Especially when you go out there. The only thing different is their gang culture is different.

Speaker 1: 40:04

Oh, wow, he's from Newark, yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:09

They're from New Jersey, bro. I'm trying to tell you they do.

Speaker 1: 40:16

Wow, wow, parliament Funkadelic.

Speaker 2: 40:19

They originally from New Jersey, but they got popping in town. Let's see Plainfield, new Jersey, plainfield, new Jersey. I'm trying to tell you, brother, I'm not even looking at my phone, I'm telling you this.

Speaker 1: 40:32

It says Plainfield, New Jersey, Detroit, Michigan.

Speaker 2: 40:37

Yeah, when they guys popping, they started grabbing people from other regions, but they're originally from New Jersey.

Speaker 1: 40:44

Damn, that is crazy, bro, that is crazy, anyway, yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:51

Right. So the West Coast hip-hop? I'm just trying to give some knowledge to it. That is crazy. Anyway, yeah, into the culture, let them get famous, let them make a lot of money, and it gave them the opportunity to dictate what we do. Huh, you don't make the rules. Prime example, kanye West. Right, kanye West. Love him as a musician. Love him, great guy. He as a musician, love him, great guy, he's a musician. You're technically not authentic to hip-hop culture. You don't come from this.

Speaker 1: 41:42

Whoa.

Speaker 2: 41:42

Whoa Okay. Being black has nothing to do with street art. Being black has nothing to do with hip-hop. Being black has something to do with being black. Hip-hop, once again, is street urban culture. Kanye West, you didn't grow up with street urban culture, because if you did, you wouldn't be making songs about slobbing your cousin off for 10 years.

Speaker 1: 42:07

Hold on For real Hip hop. We don't do that in hip hop.

Speaker 2: 42:12

We don't do that in hip hop. Right, there's certain things about street urban culture. You were talented. You made a lot of dope beats. You were a talented musician. Being a musician is cool. That doesn't make you hip-hop, it just makes you a participant in hip-hop culture. There's two different things. You can be a participant in the culture. That doesn't mean that's what you are.

Speaker 2: 42:40

Right, he ushered in the suburban square kids to come into this culture and think that they can dictate rules of what we do in this culture. Remember when he came, 50 of them had the streets in a frenzy 50 dips at the locks. I mean 50 dips at the locks. Houston was houston street. Rap was in, game was coming in. Look, atlanta had a ti gz and all the street. All of it was street urban culture, culture, music. He came in. I'm the college dropout. All right, cool, you're a college dropout kid. We give you that. We respect that. Kids from the streets go to college. We give you that. As time went on, you got to see who this guy really was and some of the things you were doing just wasn't hip-hop B.

Speaker 1: 43:35

Okay, can you explain some of the hoes right there?

Speaker 2: 43:39

Right, some of the things he was doing just wasn't hip-hop. There was a time when he came out his face and said I like to wear women's clothes because I like the way the fabric feels on my skin. That ain't hip-hop, right, that ain't hip-hop. That ain't hip-hop. That ain't hip-hop. That ain't hip-hop Like nah, those little things like that, oh, you wifing up a known bird that the whole hip-hop game already smashed behind the scenes, yeah, that ain't hip-hop. That ain't hip-hop. You champion this too. That ain't hip-hop.

Speaker 2: 44:21

Which ushered in somebody who, kanye West, was close enough to the culture because he was in the south side of Chicago. Right, so he comes from an urban environment, but himself he wasn't urban like that. He was a Poindexter that just had talent. He was very creative. You ushered in Bacon Boy, what I like to call him the Elvis of rap music, the literal Elvis of rap music. The literal Elvis of rap music. Don't care if you like his tunes. No, he's a product of native Charny. Ye is a product of native tongue. As far as influence, he was never ushered in by people of native tongue. He was ushered in by the dope boys and the street cats from Rockefeller.

Speaker 1: 45:20

Well, that's probably why he was getting ignored in the first place.

Speaker 2: 45:25

That's why he was getting notarized in the first place. Look who you with you with Beans. You with Miff Bleak, you with Hoves. You with Dame Dash. You with Cam. You with Miff Bleak, you with Hov. You with Dame Dash, you with Cam. You with all of them. So when you part of this crew, this crew has already got the streets in a frenzy for us to put you in here and technically you really the person who really, from what I remember seeing his first name in the credits was Nas, but that's need to handle that. I remember seeing his first name in the credits was Nas, but that's neither him nor them. I remember he did Fetus on a Nas bootleg I Am album, the double CD. Kanye West produced Fetus and he did.

Speaker 2: 46:08

You Made Me on the Harlem World album, the first song on the Harlem World album for the Harlem World Rap Group, the joint with Tommy Carl Thomas. He did that record. That was before the Rockefeller era. You made me. You said yeah, you made me. Harlem World album, the group album, not the Mase album, the group album.

Speaker 1: 46:26

Wow, you know how long ago was that.

Speaker 2: 46:32

It was 99, if I'm not mistaken, 99. He was doing that since then. Yeah, that was 99,. If I'm not mistaken that Hall of Morale, 99 or 2000. Most likely, I'm thinking it's 99.

Speaker 1: 46:47

So he's been in the game for a long time, man.

Speaker 2: 46:51

Yeah, just like Just Blaze. His first record that I remember was with killer priest what?

Speaker 1: 46:56

what record is that?

Speaker 2: 46:57

um, I forgot the title, but it was on killer pre. It was on killer priest first or second album, right. So this is like these, when this, when I started seeing their names and credits, because back then we had cds with linear notes and you would read who was on these projects, right? So that's when I first seen Judge Blazer. I'm not going to say he wasn't around before that, but that's when I first seen him. I first seen him break through with a Wu-Tang affiliate member.

Speaker 2: 47:27

Right, it always reverts back to the gods anyway. But that's neither here nor there. But we'll get into that later. We'll get into that part of hip-hop later, how everything reverts back to the gods anyway. But that's me to handle this. But we'll get into that later. We'll get into that part of hip-hop later with how everything reverts back to the gods. But that's a and that's another reason. When we lost hip-hop too is when we stopped being influenced by the gods. But that's me, we'll get into that too. We'll get into that, right?

Speaker 2: 47:51

Um, because the guards dictated a whole lot that was going on in New York City hip hop, a lot of it, majority, majority, a lot of it. But you know, fast forward. Some people say the south helped destroy hip hop. I say no, the south just did what the south does, right, they were still doing hip hop, but they were doing southern hip hop. The South helped destroy hip-hop. I say no, the South just did what the South does, right, they were still doing hip-hop, but they were doing Southern hip-hop because they're Southerners, right. What they can't do New York hip-hop, because we're going to chew them up for biting and trying to be like New Yorkers.

Speaker 1: 48:26

Right.

Speaker 2: 48:27

Right, you can't bite, so you got to be yourself.

Speaker 1: 48:30

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 48:35

Right. Then all of a sudden, after the TI's, the Lil Wayne wave and all of that, guess who comes in? King Biter, you came in biting.

Speaker 1: 48:44

Who was biting? Drake Came in biting.

Speaker 2: 48:48

You came in sounding like Lil Wayne.

Speaker 1: 48:52

Was he though.

Speaker 2: 48:53

When you first came in you sounded like Lil Wayne with a mixture of Kanye West. You came in the door biting.

Speaker 1: 49:03

Okay, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 2: 49:07

You came in the door biting. You came in the door imitating black American hip hop culture. You didn't have a sound of your own. What was the sound of Toronto? Your accent wasn't Toronto. When you rapped, we surely didn't hear the Toronto accent. We didn't hear that. What's going on? Eh, what's going on, man? We didn't hear all of that. We heard you imitate a southern southern rapper with a twist of Memphis, with a slash of Houston. This is what we heard. You were Elvis. You did exactly what Elvis did. I'm going to imitate all these black people's culture. Get back by the Jewish and rich white Jewish people, by the machine, and we're going to make this guy into a multimillionaire and make him a star. And then all the suburban kids and the Cornwall kids who didn't have a voice finally had someone who gave them a voice.

Speaker 1: 50:13

But his dad is black though.

Speaker 2: 50:15

So what? That don't make you part of the culture you you just because your father's black. And here's the thing you can be black and not be of hip-hop culture can you break that down? Easily. You could be black in the hood and not be of hip-hop culture.

Speaker 1: 50:31

Break that down, please, how you could be black in the hood, understand everything that go on the hood and not be of hip-hop culture. Woo, break that down please. How?

Speaker 2: 50:36

You could be black in the hood, understand everything that go on the hood and still not be hip-hop culture. It's mad black people that we've grown up with that say I don't listen to rap music. It's a lot of them. It's a lot of women that say that too Black women. I don't listen to rap music.

Speaker 1: 50:55

So what makes you?

Speaker 2: 50:56

a part of the culture, street urban culture. If you don't involve yourself in street urban culture, the slang, the dialect, the dress style, the culture, all of it is a part of hip-hop culture. It's an embodiment of us. We naturally us, naturally for us that love hip hop, we can't help but avoid. We can't avoid it. It's in us. The street urban culture of hip hop is in us. It's a lot of kids that grew up in the projects that were not hip hop. You know this. Some kids were gamers. They didn't care about hip hop culture. They didn't care about hip-hop culture. They didn't care about listening to rap music and all of that. They wanted to play video games and be nintendo and geeks and listen to all that other stuff. Granted, playing video games is a part of hip-hop culture, but you're, you weren't necessarily hip-hop. Somebody else outside, jehovah witnesses with them penny loafers on knocking door to door. Y''all ain't listening to no rap music.

Speaker 1: 51:55

Yo shout out to my man, Vernon Not trying to diss you, Vern if you ever see this video, Vernon was definitely not a part of hip-hop culture.

Speaker 2: 52:04

And it's okay, that doesn't make you not black.

Speaker 1: 52:07

Vernon was not. He's like oh yeah, I heard that song before. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:14

Here's the thing you being black is a culture within itself. Right Right Black is. There's black culture. There's ghetto black culture. There's middle class black culture. There's rich black culture.

Speaker 1: 52:31

Yo, I like how you broke that down. I like how you broke that down bro. That was crazy. That was crazy, Right? Yeah, I heard that. Yeah, I heard that chat, Sean. Are you still in the chat, Sean? Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 52:46

You get what I'm saying. I say there's four elements of black culture Rich, poor, middle class hip hop. Hip hop was birthed from poor black people. It wasn't birthed from rich black people. It wasn't birthed from middle class black people. You get what I'm saying. We, at the bottom, if you come from the projects, if you come from the slums, if you come from where we come, you come from the slums. If you come from where we come from, we come from poverty. We come from the reason why we love hip-hop so much and people from other regions love hip-hop so much, as they all come from the same poverty that we come from. That's why it's so relatable. You could be in, you could be in oakland, california, or Chicago or Florida or Miami, florida, and you can rap about the poverty of Florida and we can relate to it. You know why? Because it's all poor black culture. The slang might be different, but once you understand the slang, it's the same thing. Once you understand the slang, it's the same thing.

Speaker 2: 53:54

A suburban kid who grew up in the Jewish neighborhood of the richest neighborhood in Toronto, canada, you will never be this. The culture died when we gave you the pass for the last 15 years. The culture died. The culture died when we made you the number one guy for the past 15 years because you, being in that number one spot, you ushered in all of this foolishness. Now you ushered in all of this extra foolishness. You ushered in all of this foolishness. Now you ushered in all of this extra foolishness. You ushered in all of this carpool. You ushered in not being respected for being a writer. You ushered in ghostwriters being accepted publicly Behind the scenes. We ain't having no problem with it, because behind the scenes is behind the scenes publicly ushered in cardboard culture, ushered in imitating black culture.

Speaker 2: 55:01

Now you got Chinese and Asians and I mean Chinese people, no disrespect to Asian people. Now you got Chinese Jewish. You got all these other factors of cultures who didn't grow up as hip hoppers, imitating hip hop culture based on what they saw, not what they lived. There's a difference. You go on the internet right now you're going to see Chinese people in China rapping, drill music. That is Chicago urban street culture. Right, you ain't grew up like that in China. We're not saying China doesn't have crime. We're not saying China doesn't have poverty. We're not saying that. Right, china does not have hip hop culture. As far as origins, right? Wu-tang came over there and y'all knew every word of the song, but couldn't speak a lick of English. So you just recite in what you like, but you don't even know what they really talking about, because, for one, they speak in the God language, and if you ain't speaking the God language, you really don't. If you ain't from the elements of where the God is from, you don't think Chinese. People don't know nothing about studying 120?

Speaker 1: 56:33

Right, you don't think Chinese people don't know nothing about studying 120? Right.

Speaker 2: 56:37

They don't know what a CLR rule means.

Speaker 1: 56:40

Mm-hmm Right right you get what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 56:45

You just know that Wu-Tang took the word Sha Lin and Wu-Tang Clan from Asian films and used it as a moniker for the group name and as the clan. But you don't know nothing else past that. You don't like them because they took some Asian culture and mixed it in with Black culture, because that's what hip-hop is. We take from all of y'all, and the reason why we take from y'all is because we didn't have nothing, but then we let a kid who had something come in this culture and try to dictate to the hood what we can do.

Speaker 1: 57:25

Right, where is he now, though. What happened? Did he come out with any new music?

Speaker 2: 57:31

Yeah, he came out with two songs. He came out with 60 songs since that battle 60 songs since that battle 60 songs since that battle 60 songs he came out with. He released 60 songs since that battle, but nobody wants to admit it 60 songs since that battle. He released a record last week with Central C from the UK. I didn't even know he released a song with Central C from the UK. I didn't even know he released a song with Central C last week. Didn't he try to say like UK rapper?

Speaker 1: 58:00

He gave you that number seven.

Speaker 2: 58:01

Now he coming out of his face because authentic hip-hop culture, the culture itself, danced to the guy being called a fraud. We celebrated the culture itself knew deep down inside the culture knew this guy was a fraud.

Speaker 1: 58:26

Oh, I like up Drake on YouTube.

Speaker 2: 58:29

It says he's Vanilla Ice at this point.

Speaker 1: 58:33

Why Drake just officially canceled his tour.

Speaker 2: 58:38

That's the first thing you see, right.

Speaker 2: 58:40

Here's what it is. Yeah, they're attracted to the Supreme Energy, rhythm and the drums Exactly Devon. But what I'm saying is when you look at Drake, right, when you look at the culture, the culture of last, from the past year, from last year, from that battle till now, the black American culture has been laughing at this guy. We have been celebrating and dancing like we just got freed from slavery. Y'all don't see it. Y'all don't see black.

Speaker 2: 59:13

When the last time you seen black people in the streets singing a song like they, not like us, they not like us, they not like us, like it's a ant, like not just the anthem, but it's like a, it's like a we shall overcome record, like you're gonna be all right, right, like you gotta really look at the culture of street, urban culture and then look at what's here in front of us. The youth didn't even realize that. The youth, or the ghetto, didn't even realize that they were supporting what was authentic to them. They looked at it like a regular hip-hop battle. But when the colonizer loses, we're celebrating like we just. And then you got the guy who goes to the Super Bowl and literally shows the whole world that this is black culture, that this is created by black people in the ghetto. And he's not, and he's literally at the Super Bowl letting you know that this is raw, unfiltered black people.

Speaker 1: 1:00:18

Right Now, before we cut out, the whole point that you made was we, the hip hop industry, didn't destroy hip hop. We did. The music industry didn't destroy hip hop. We did because we allow people to come in and dictate to us what to do with our culture. Exactly, boom, indeed, indeed, and that was peace. Thank you, brother, clip, for coming out this evening. I really appreciate you. Whenever clip is on, y'all got to listen because his, his, his knowledge on music, history and things like that is on point. Thank you for coming out, clip, really appreciate you again. Thank you to the chat for showing up tonight. Clip will be on. Whenever Clip is on, you got to tune in. We are out of here, oh yo. Peace to Shawnee, that was on the check-in with us. Peace to Shawnee peace, shawnee peace.