African Centered Education and the Struggle in Ghana - Imole Mosi Chukwu Oyeh

What does it mean to truly live Pan-Africanism rather than just talk about it? Brother Imoli answers this question with his life story – a 25-year journey that took him from Seattle activism to founding a revolutionary school in Ghana based on the principles of Pan-Africanism and Nkrumahism.

In this profound conversation, Imoli shares how his path began when he was introduced to Pan-African thought at the University of District Columbia, leading him to organize with Kwame Ture and other revolutionary leaders. Inspired by Mangaliso Sobukwe's armed struggle against white settler colonialism in South Africa, Imoli came to understand that true liberation required returning to African soil. "We need to go home where our own land is, where we can stand on our land, and it's ours," he explains with conviction.

Since 1999, Brother Imoli hasn't left the African continent. His People's School for Positive Education (Kwame Nkrumah School) represents a remarkable achievement – a place where African identity is celebrated rather than suppressed. Every person associated with the school, from students to security staff, must use traditional African names and memorize the school's Pan-African philosophy. This stands in stark contrast to the neo-colonial education system where students are punished for speaking their native languages.

The conversation delves into challenging topics: the psychological effects of colonialism manifested in skin bleaching, the pervasive influence of foreign religions, and the struggle against neo-colonial governments with U.S. military bases on their soil. Yet through it all, Brother Imoli offers practical guidance for everyday Pan-Africanism: adopt an African name, wear African clothes, learn about Africa daily, and organize with others committed to continental unity.

With over 150 graduates who've gone on to become professionals, Imoli's school demonstrates the power of education rooted in African identity. His upcoming autobiography promises to further illuminate connections between Africans on the continent and in the diaspora, challenging historical misconceptions while strengthening the bonds of shared ancestry.

Ready to move beyond talk and embrace Pan-African action? This episod

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:11

what's going on, everybody? It's ron brown lmc, the people's fitness professional, aka soul brother number one. Reporting for duty.

Speaker 2: 0:19

We got the magnetic alarm in the building and uh and then we got a special guest a very special guest man all the way from Ghana, a brother named Emoli. Now, listen, now I know y'all hear a lot of stuff, man, from so-called Pan-Africanists, people who say they're Pan-Africanists now they call them Scam Africanists. This is the brother who, from originally, as long as I have known him, within the last 25, 30 years, walked next with Kwame Ture, with Bob Brown, with Willie Mucasa Ricks, and has always been a staunch Pan-Africanist, laced me on revolutionary path, on conscientiousism. You know somebody that really walks this and he has a school. He didn't just talk this stuff in here in America. He went to Ghana and built a school based on the principles of Pan-Africanism, torahism and Chromism and the school is based upon that. They've put out at least 150 students who have went on to college and have went on to. You know, some of them become lawyers and become professionals.

Speaker 2: 1:26

So just to let you know, pan-africanism is not just a theory that people here just talk. This is. Some people have moved out on this and have created curriculums and schools and have materialized a lot of very successful young people based upon this. You know so, and that's this brother who we have here today. His name is brother Imoli, you know. So he is kind of carrying on the work of Nkrumah, you know, but coming from here going to there, carrying on the work of Pan-Africanism and Nkrumahism, torahism, and hey, it's a very commendable effort, bruh.

Speaker 1: 2:03

And I think he's right there. He's ready to rock and roll before he comes on. I'm going to just tell you, man, just interacting with him for a few minutes today, he has that spirit, that Pan-African spirit, that this platform has needed. You know, not saying that man, you don't have the Pan-African spirit.

Speaker 2: 2:23

Well, I learned from him, though I learned from this. These are the guys who taught me this brother here. He introduced me to Kwame Ture. He definitely got it. You know what?

Speaker 1: 2:33

I mean yeah, yes, sir. So, without any further ado, here we go.

Speaker 2: 2:39

Peace, peace, greetings, peace.

Speaker 1: 2:53

Greetings Greetings brother.

Speaker 3: 2:54

Greetings greetings brother so uh, before before we go into it um I want to ask you a few questions, uh, first off, how?

Speaker 1: 2:59

you doing this evening? Oh well, happy to be at home, right, right and um. So I just want to learn a little bit about you before we go into the questions. So you're from America, of course, with Steve well, I'm from Africa, but I grew up in.

Speaker 3: 3:17

America. I'm from Africa. You know here where you from. Then you say where you originate from, not where you were necessarily born, got you. So I'm from Africa, but I grew up in the States.

Speaker 1: 3:35

Yes, OK, and what state?

Speaker 3: 3:40

In Washington State, seattle.

Speaker 1: 3:42

Seattle, oh OK, ok, seattle, oh okay, okay, seattle, that's peace, that's peace.

Speaker 2: 3:59

So what was it like growing up, you know, in your era and time in Seattle that would bring you to you know, get you know, inspired to go to Africa and open up a school. I think you froze up a little bit Froze up. Yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:16

He's got to go out and come back. Okay, Pardon me, pardon me, family. He is in Africa. He's in Ghana right now.

Speaker 2: 4:23

right, Indeed yeah, he's a little bit of a ways away. We've been having a lot of solar flares lately and that messes with the satellites, you know, and the technology. So you know, just a heads up to the fam, have patience with us yes, sir, yes sir.

Speaker 1: 4:39

So so give me a background like how did you meet that brother? And you know, you said you learned from them.

Speaker 2: 4:47

Well, you know, our families was extra tight, my uncle and his uncle was tight, my mother and his mother were real tight. So you know, he came back at a certain point from Howard and then you know, he was like, hey, I'm trying to bring Kwame Ture. And I was like, ooh, let's do that.

Speaker 3: 5:05

I went to UDC. Udc, not Howard.

Speaker 2: 5:08

UDC Howard, pardon me UDC yeah, and yeah, that was how we connected. And then we connected I brought the people I knew and then he brought the folks that he had connections with and then we had an all organizational rally that I was telling you about, similar to the black round table. You know thing was that Akili knew way more about Pan-Africanism. I was a nationalist, black nationalist, knew a little bit about liberation theology, but he knew he had the Pan-Africanist piece.

Speaker 1: 5:38

So yep, all right, all right. So the brother froze up again, he's all right, all right. So the brother froze up again, he's got to go out and come back, froze up again, all right. So. So, pardon me, family, as we said, he's actually in ghana right now and, uh, you know the wi-fi and all that is tough out there. So so, back to um, back to your history with him. Can you break that down even more elaborate, a little bit more?

Speaker 2: 6:08

Because his mother's like my aunt, you see, because my mom and his mom grew up together. So, you know, when he came back in town, the person of course they was going to connect with was myself, you know. So we could bring Kwame and, you know, get the Pan-Africanist ball rolling, because I was in the nation at the time, moving into the Nation of Gods and Earths, and, you know, my cousin he's like my cousin and Moley come back in town. So I was like, well, yeah, let's do it. I was also connected to the Garfield BSU, the African Cultural Awareness Alliance. So you know, we was able to get the building and draw up a lot of other organizations and bring them to the table. You say Kwame Ture's name. Of course everybody want to come to the table. So we told them Kwame was coming. So everybody wanted to be there, you know. And then we had, you know, full participation.

Speaker 1: 7:01

So what was that like coming up under you know this brother right here? Like what was that like coming up under you know this brother right here? Like what was it you said you learned from him. So what did you learn from him exactly?

Speaker 2: 7:10

Well, specifically Pan-Africanism, because I was already learning black nationalism from the nation, a lot of other black nationalism from the nation of gods and earths. I knew a lot of comedic stuff, but the tenets specifically of what Pan-Africanism is, you know what I mean, the history of it, what it looked like, what's the difference between this system and other systems. You know, and you know there was a lot of Marxists but I appreciated us having Pan-Africanism because it replaced where Marxism, where they grew up with a, slid Marxism in on us. You know, you see what I'm saying and the brother he's going to build on that the difference between Pan-Africanism and Marxism, because there's a big difference, man, the two are not the same.

Speaker 1: 7:54

All right, so now coming up. Moli Imoli, that's how you pronounce it, right.

Speaker 3: 8:00

Imoli, imoli.

Speaker 1: 8:01

Imoli, so Imale, imale, imale. Yes, so how did you? So what's that name a mixture of? Is it a mixture of Ghanaian names, nigerian, how did you what's?

Speaker 3: 8:17

that name the origin, it's my lineage. Yeah, it's Imale. Imale is Yoruba. My full name is Chibu Ikem Imale Mosee Chukwu. Oye, so it's a mixture of different names from different parts of Africa. Chibu Ikem and Imale and Chukwu and Oye are from Nigeria, but Mosee is Kiswahili.

Speaker 1: 8:43

Kiswahili. You said yes.

Speaker 3: 8:46

Mosee is.

Speaker 1: 8:46

Kiswahili. Kiswahili. You said yes, so Swahili is familiar among what you want to call African-American population. Now how is it in Africa? Is Swahili one of the languages people speak out there, or no?

Speaker 3: 9:06

Not in Ghana no. In Ghana the languages that people speak mostly is Akan language, Hausa, Ewe, Gaa, Then in the north they have Dagomba and Nunumba and Mosli and Degati and other languages like that here in Ghana. But my lineage is from mostly from Nigeria. My direct lineage is from Nigeria, and so that's the name I'm taking in order to represent where my people come from.

Speaker 1: 9:42

OK, so your direct lineage. So what led you on this path to end up in Ghana and opening up a school in Ghana? Why not? Why not open up a school in Seattle?

Speaker 3: 9:53

Well, you know, to me, you know, I take it that we're African, we're African people, you know, and this is our home.

Speaker 3: 10:01

And so, you know, being introduced to the Pan-African Revolution, I was motivated by Mangaliso Sobukwe, that's.

Speaker 3: 10:13

Who opened my eyes was Mangaliso Sobukwe, and he was the leader of the Pan-Africanist Congress of Azania, in South Africa, and they were fighting an arm struggle against white settler colonialism in our land, and so that inspired me to join the United Pan-African Front. And because we learned initially from an arm struggle, fighting for land, that motivated me to, you know, like to focus on the issue of land. It's not just about building castles in the sky instead of fighting for land. So, you know, I'm like no, we need to go, we need to go home. You know, we need to go home where our own land is, where we can stand on our land, and it's ours, and have control over it, you know, and so that's what motivated me to, you know, return to Africa and start organizing, because, like Malcolm X said, that we have to have something powerful that looks like us. So building a United States of Africa, a continental government for Africa, to me is the solution for our problems, you know, all over the world.

Speaker 1: 11:23

That's where the throne is right, there, exactly. So now, uh, you already explained to us how. What inspired you to you know, but what year did you go about doing this, start traveling to africa and making those moves?

Speaker 3: 11:41

well, in 91, in 91, in 91, I was a delegate from a conference that took place at Howard University. I graduated from UDC, but this conference was at Howard and it was an all African student and youth conference and we had over 113 African organizations from all over the world that met at Howard and formed the Pan-African Student and Youth United Front. And the objectives of the Pan-African Student and Youth United Front was one to recruit other student and youth organizations into the front and then also to organize a worldwide Pan-African Student and Youth Congress in Africa. And so I was honored to be the delegate on behalf of that front to come to Ghana and represent Ghana in negotiations and deliberations with the National Union of Ghana Students and the All Africa Students Union, in addition to organizing past youth in Seattle, youth in Seattle so that's what I think Comrade Kenyatta was talking about when I was in Seattle organizing with the NAACP, masunda, the Black Student Unions in University of Washington, at Seattle Central Community College, at Evergreen and other locations throughout Seattle and bringing those organizations together to form a Pan-African student and youth united front.

Speaker 3: 13:09

We also made overtures to the Crips, to the BGDs, the folks and all of them, when we're doing that work in Seattle. So it was like two pronged, like also organizing, you know, african unity among the African youth organizations in Seattle and throughout the states, and also focusing on the prize, by trying to organize African students on the continent and the diaspora to try to encourage the traditional, the governance, to come together and form that continental government that will satisfy our people's desires. And with Marcus Garvey and Kwame Ture and Martin Robinson, delaney and all of them stood for that continental government that we need, with one army for Africa, one currency, you know, one common defense market, everything you know to unite our people.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Okay, and that was in 1991.

Speaker 3: 14:10

Yeah, 1991. So that's what we were doing, that's the work we were doing, meeting with the National Union of Ghana students, meeting with the Our Africa Students Union, and even it was called the Pan-African Trinity. And that time also, during that time, we changed from PASS Youth to PASM, the Pan African Student and Youth Movement, and we were supposed to organize the youth component for the eighth Pan African Congress that was supposed to be held in Tripoli, libya, in 1997. Yeah, we formed the Pan African Youth Revolutionaryary Brigade and we were trying to work with Kwame Ture. We joined the Worldwide African Anti-Zionist Front and we were working with Kwame Ture and others to try to, you know, bring about continental unity.

Speaker 1: 15:02

Check Okay, unity. Check Okay, so 1991 and 1997. Now, what gave you the inspiration to open up a school and what year did you do that?

Speaker 3: 15:16

Okay, in Ghana I joined the All African People's Revolutionary Party. That was in 2001. And so we were doing work, organizing the youth in the senior high schools in a formation called the NAPAC, the National Association of Pan-African Clubs. So we were going to the senior high schools, meeting with those students, organizing those students, giving them books by Kwame Nkrumah, sekou Toure, marcus Garvey Du Bois and educating them on Pan-Africanism and trying to recruit them into the AAPRP. And so during that period, you know, I had a facility that like a restaurant, like a food service place, and so I started organizing youth in the area for free Saturday schools at that place, right, and so with the free Saturday schools, I was like, ok, these guys are going to be going into the senior high school so we can start educating them in math and science and African history. So a brother named Wolako Byaku, he was teaching math and science and I was teaching African history from the same book that AAPRP starts people off with for work study circle, which is the World in Africa, by WEB Du Bois. And so we were studying the world in Africa and I was trying to recruit those youth into NAPACs in the senior high schools after they were graduating from junior high school. And so you know it was effective. It was a real good program that we had going on. And so you know that's how we started with the school, with the Free Saturday School.

Speaker 3: 17:03

But what happened was my mother she came and saw the free Saturday school and she was impressed but we were lacking in resources, right, you know. So the brother who was teaching the math and science, we just were able to provide boarding for him, but we wasn't able to pay him anything. And the students, they didn't have no food to eat when they were coming for studies. So it was like, you know, we were just making do with whatever we had available. So my mom was like, okay, let me go and talk to some of these black nurses in Seattle, and they said that well, they can provide some money for us to be able to provide food for the students, pay something to Wallachako for his work.

Speaker 3: 17:46

And then that was like the beginning of me getting involved in the educational process here in Ghana. And so then you know what happened was we were organized. I was still organizing in the party, but you know I got shot and attacked by armed robbers. I was writing articles in the newspapers and things like that. Here in ghana. I got shot by armed robbers, um, you know, and recovered, still continue to do work, revolutionary, pan-african work. And then, uh, my mom came again and saw this big field. You know that we had a plot adjacent to the field and so she was looked at. That looked at the land was like, well, what about opening up a school on on this land? I was like, okay, well, and so she mortgaged her house in order to get land and build the first classrooms in the administration block for the school. And then I took on the responsibility running and organizing the school. And then that was it.

Speaker 3: 18:54

That was the beginning of People's School for Positive Education, kwame Nkrumah School 2001 that's when it started no 2006 2006 is when it started yes, so I was organizing, I was organizing for the um aprp from 2001 to 2004. Then I was writing, you know, writing and organizing a food service provision facility and also doing work with the Saturday school, with the youth, and then from there, you know, we opened up people's school for positive education in 2000. Yes, ok, we started, we started developing in 2005, but we opened in 2006.

Speaker 1: 19:41

Developing in 2005, but we opened in 2006. Okay, and so are you back and forth to Ghana and Seattle, or are you just in Ghana? The majority of the time.

Speaker 3: 19:52

I've been in Ghana since December of 1999 and I haven't left Africa. Oh, I only went to Nigeria in 2000, and what 2021. I was in Nigeria for a week, but aside from that, I've just been in Ghana.

Speaker 1: 20:11

OK, so I just want to take it back and we're going to go to some more questions. I just want to rewind. So you got shot right. That situation did have anything to do with your works in that country, or?

Speaker 3: 20:26

well, I had, I had a newspaper article in a in a paper called casua today, and the article was entitled property, democracy and power. And so, while the while, while the newspaper article was on the newspaper stands, that's the time we were attacked by armed robbers that very night, you know. And so you know it can be maybe coincidental, or it may have been political, but we can't say for sure, you know.

Speaker 1: 20:59

And you've been, but you've been safe ever since, though.

Speaker 3: 21:04

Well ensuring my safety ever since my brother you know, ensuring our safety ever since, if you know what I mean, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:14

OK, so now can you explain to our audience how and where you were introduced to pan-Africanism?

Speaker 3: 21:22

OK, I was introduced to pan-Africanism as a student at the University of the District of Columbia, a brother from Inglewood, california, named Chris Gaines. He was a close friend with David Sebeko David Sebeko is the namesake, the son, of David Sebeko Sr, who was the representative to the United Nations for the Pan-Africanist Congress of Azania. That was an armed struggle in Azania, south Africa, that was putting fire on the white racist regime in that territory with scorpion guns and, you know, hitting their soft underbelly with the slogan one set of one bullet. You know, and so you know I was in. He started giving me information about this organization. You know sobaquay speeches, azania news, azania combat.

Speaker 3: 22:21

I was like wow, know all this racism that we've been encountering in the United Snakes all these years. You know suffering. You know discrimination, police terrorism. And now you know our brothers in Azania, south Africa, are fighting like that, you know, with sophisticated. You know with sophisticated, you know polished propaganda newsletters. You know intelligent, intellectual, you know analysis of the situation. I was like wow, you know. And I was a student at the university so I was very impressed, particularly by Soboquet, you know. And so you know I was ready, you know. So after that I joined the United Pan-African Front, you know, with Obi Aguna, chris Gaines, and you know Mahmoud Tanga, dave Jackson and others. You know Baron Jamal Moussa, mark Phillips. You know we all formed the United Pan-African Front and then went to universities throughout DC metropolitan area, in Virginia, in Maryland, you know, and in DC and started, you know, recruiting other African student youth formations into the front. That's how I got started.

Speaker 2: 23:45

Gotcha.

Speaker 1: 23:47

Okay. Do you have a list of Pan-African books that you would recommend to our listeners?

Speaker 3: 23:55

Yes, Ready for the Revolution. By Kwame Ture. Africa Must Unite by Kwame Nkrumah. Stokely. Speak from Revolution. Back to Black Power, Back to Pan-Africanism Philosophy and Opinions of Marcus Garvey. Pan-africanism or Communism by George Padmore. Those are, like you know, books for people who are interested in beginning. You know there's other books the World in Africa family.

Speaker 3: 24:39

The World in Africa by Du Bois yeah, oh, there's another book that a comrade of mine wrote, named Sekou Nkrumah, called Pan-Africa Repatriation and Pan-Africanism the Suppression of Two Movements. And he wrote another Book called Notes on White Supremacy and Capitalism that I helped him to write the section On Neo-Colonialism In that book. Yeah, so those are some of the books I would recommend.

Speaker 2: 25:11

And we're going to list those in the comments. We're going to put those in the comments below the video so to make sure everybody can get that and reflect on those.

Speaker 3: 25:22

Okay.

Speaker 1: 25:23

And also if you're following us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, you can rewind it easily and listen to it again.

Speaker 3: 25:36

So before we go, to the next Asada, asada, asada. I have to mention the sisters oh for sure now, how was it?

Speaker 1: 25:48

yep, you want me to say something. No, no, your experience in Ghana. What's the experience like as far as like how they view African Americans? Was it, was it an easy transition? Was it a little, you know, stressful? Was it, you know, some kind of like you know issues out there, you know, with the people of Ghana?

Speaker 3: 26:14

Well, you know it's a struggle. It's a struggle to readjust, you know, because many of us who grew up in the diaspora, experiencing, you know, the genocide of chattel enslavement, have mental slavery. You know a lot of us we don't really know, we don't really know our direct lineages, language, and you know there's like a disconnect. And so I think that what it does require is some humility on our part to come home and be willing to learn, be willing to listen, you know, and observe the environment and throw away that. You know American arrogance, that some of us come here to Africa with you know American arrogance, that some of us come here to Africa with you know. And so I think that that's an important part, and it takes a lot of time to be able to adjust to Africa. You know people are not going to just show you everything just like that. And so those who are coming back, you know we must come back. So I'm not dissuading anyone, no, we have to come home. But as we come home, we have to, I think, do our due diligence, you know, do our preparation, study where we're going. You know, and most and importantly and a lot of us really don't pay attention to this is that those who have already repatriated and have been living in Africa for, let's say, more than 10 years, those who are coming, you know, fresh, need to talk to them. You see, give them some respect, talk to them and, you know, make sure that when we're coming to Africa, those people are on our itinerary, whether they're organizing politically, whether they're having schools, whether they're having clinics or whatever kind of pro, whether it's, you know, health, it's begging food, whatever it is. You know, come and hook up with the repatriates who have been here for a minute and let them tell you what you need to know so you can come home properly. And then also, what I would say is that when we come home, we should make sure that we're doing something that's beneficial to the people here. Oh, yeah, for sure that should be the plan.

Speaker 3: 29:00

The most Pan-Africanist youth you know that I was aware of in Ghana with the National Union of Ghana Students and the All-Africa Students Union, and so I came like, kind of like as a diplomat, you know, working with them, meeting with the student leadership in the country, and so that helped me kind of be a little bit, you know, insulated where people are like, you know, but I didn't just come. Just you know straight like that, I was coming doing that work, and so you know on the one hand that, but then on the other hand, you know I was living in Alajo, you know, in a chamber hall, so it was like I was kind of on the streets at the same time as doing that type of organization. So for my person, I was young, 23, 24. And so my personal experience was like a young guy coming in. You know, a lot of people are coming here. They're real old, you know, and then they finally come to Africa. But I came young, no-transcript.

Speaker 1: 30:37

Right, indeed. So what about the people who are from Ghana, like the natives there? How was the relationship with that? Did they treat you any differently because you're American, or anything like that?

Speaker 3: 30:54

Well, you know, I'll put it this way. They didn't treat me badly. You know, even some people would try to even treat you better. You know, even some people would try to even treat you better. You know what I'm saying. So it's not something like you're being discriminated against or anything like that. If you're an African, a black person coming from America to Ghana, there's no discrimination against you. You know what I'm saying. People will be hospitable. You know what I'm saying. People, people will be be be hospitable.

Speaker 3: 31:25

You know, it's just it. It here is just. You know, a lot, of a lot of our people in the States are actually Guineans by blood. So it's the same people. It's the same people, you know, and as you live here and see the people's faces and their behavior and everything, you can see that we're the same people. You know we're the same people. You see people that look just exactly like people in your family, like your friends that you grew up with, got the same face, got, you know, got the same maybe voice, got the same mannerisms. You know it's. We're just africans, you know, and we're just in different locations.

Speaker 3: 32:05

So you know, just like maybe nigerians come to ghana or togolese come to ghana, there'll be a little bit of difference, you know, in terms of how they're being looked at or maybe how you know they're being talked about. But there's not really any discrimination. You know people will deal with you how you're coming. I'll be following again how you're coming and how you're doing. Then that's what people are going to be looking at and you'll be dealt with accordingly. But if you're coming from the States, they'll be thinking you got some money, though They'll be thinking you got some money, though They'll be thinking you got some money. So maybe if you go into the market and you have that tonation in your voice that looks like you're a foreigner, then they may call a higher price. But if you've been here and get more experience, then you'll know how to negotiate at the market. You see, you'll learn how to negotiate at the market. You see you'll learn how to negotiate at the market. So as you get experience, then you know your expenses decrease with experience.

Speaker 1: 33:13

Got you.

Speaker 1: 33:15

Right, brother, king Hercules. Oh, brother, King Hercules, your martial artist, us, us, us. What style is thatcules, your martial artist? Us, us, us. What style is that? Anyway, right, right, as long as you respect the culture and the people, they'll treat you fine. That's right, all right, all right. Now I want to go into oh yeah, real quick, before we go into that question, the way the government is out there, right, and and old school taekwondo oh, it's brother, um, so, uh, the way the government is out there, how's the government out there? How's the how's the economy out there?

Speaker 3: 34:00

well, it's a neo-colonial. It's neo-colonial, you know, um like kwame kuma, a neo-colonial. You know, like Kwame Nkrumah defined neo-colonialism. The state which is subject to it has all the outward trappings of international sovereignty, but in reality, its economy and its political policy is directed from the outside. So you know we're in the neo-colonialism and you know we're struggling in order to unite Africa and get control of our resources for the benefit of our own people and not foreign interests. You know. So that's that's what's going on now and that's the struggle that's taking place here inside of Africa is a struggle against neocolonialism.

Speaker 1: 34:45

And it seems like the struggle everywhere.

Speaker 3: 34:49

Well, it's different fronts but you know it's the same struggle in nature.

Speaker 1: 34:53

Yeah, all right. What are the most practical elements of pan-Africanism that people can apply to their everyday lives?

Speaker 3: 35:04

I would say that accepting an African name and identity, first I would say a name. A name is personal and it's self-consciousness and self-consciousness is a higher logical type than consciousness and so, therefore, that's a decision that we can make our own self inside our own mind. You know, inside our own mind, without any outside interference, who we are, you know, and so accepting an African identity, that we're African people, accepting an African name, you know, and then agree, and then agreeing to practice our own culture and make our culture dominant in our spaces, you know we could wear our own culture and make our culture dominant in our spaces. You know we could wear our own clothes.

Speaker 3: 35:50

We can read things about Africa. We can have meetings to discuss about Africa. We can eat healthy food, you know, to make sure that our bodies are healthy. You know we could discuss and talk to our children about Africa. You know, learn something about Africa every single day and fight for Africa wherever we are. That's what we can do. That's personal and you know we can do it all the time. You know we have social media. You know there's. We can look up something about Africa every day and make sure we learn something new about Africa every day and we can love Africa and and African people and have an undying serious love for our people and and commit ourselves to sacrifice and struggle for our people's advancement and liberation.

Speaker 1: 36:38

that's what we can do all right, can you tell us about your school what? Oh, you already went through that. Uh, we already built on that. All right, what is the role of pan af? What is the role? Sorry what is the role of the pan-african teacher? Professor and educator? Uh, how do we implement these teachings into our schools, churches, temples and our homes?

Speaker 3: 37:05

Well, I would say the role of the Pan-African professor and teacher is to provide a philosophical and ideological direction, a philosophical theoretical basis and ideological direction for the youth. The youth, because one of the things that we don't pay much attention to in the states is the philosophy and ideology and culture that's dominated over the educational process. And so, you know the european, he's very conscious about dominating that space. And, like kwame krumah said, philosophy is the, philosophy is the head, philosophy is the head. The rest of the subjects, physics, chemistry, math, all the body, but philosophy is the head. And so they make sure to control the philosophy that is dominant over all of our instruction, over all of our religious institutions, all of our religious institutions. You got what I'm saying. So the job of the professor and the teacher, the religious leader, is to provide an independent African philosophy from and not from some outside people's experience and culture and being imposed on us and then making us stimulate them and making us extensions of their ancestry. You know, and so I think that's very important and that's what we do at kwame nkrumah school, people's school, positive Education is we have our own philosophy, we have our own ideology, you know, created by Osajipo, kwame Nkrumah and everybody, everybody in the school memorizes that philosophy and ideology. Teachers, students, canteen staff, security everybody memorizes the philosophy, ideology and and also, too, everybody in the school uses a traditional african name, and the pta voted for that and that's the policy of the school, so they can't be a student in that school, a, a staff or even a visitor. If you're a visitor, come with your African name. Or you know, yeah, that's it, come with your African name, or any staff. So we're doing that. It's a big step in the right direction and hopefully, throughout the whole of Africa, we can emulate that.

Speaker 3: 39:40

We've seen examples of that in certain parts, in pockets, but if we could just say, well, we're not using any foreign names anymore, we're going to use our own names to identify ourselves. I think that's a real important first step. We call it the Proud African campaign to use our, use our own names from our own languages in order to describe ourselves according to our own ancestry. And then also, you know, use our languages. You know, and not because in Ghana, you know, people are punished for speaking their own languages in schools and so you know. But that's not really, that's not the law, but that's the practice. You know, and so we should be proud to speak our own language their languages are beautiful, you know and to use our own names and to eat our own food and to wear our own clothes. You know other people do that Right, and so why can't we? That's right, and so why can't we?

Speaker 1: 40:43

Right, right, right, right. Ok, what does Ghana think of Burkina Faso and Captain Ibrahim Touré? Do you see West Africa moving in a similar, similar direction?

Speaker 3: 41:00

Well for? For I would say speak for my organization, the um uh Includements Caucus. We marched with uh TRA-RAE, you know, on African Liberation Day, the 25th of May, and I was one of the speakers at that program Walk with TRA-RAE. And so we support TRA-RAE and the Alliance of Sahel States and they're making very positive steps by removing US and French military bases from their territories and also nationalizing their resources. They wear wigs, they wear European wigs in courts in many parts of West Africa, in Nigeria, in Ghana, and so in Burkina they've taken those wigs off in adjudicating and they're wearing traditional headdress.

Speaker 3: 41:55

And so they're renaming off the streets, they're taking French names off the streets and renaming them after great Africans, names off the streets and renaming them after great Africans, and so they're doing good things.

Speaker 3: 42:05

So we support Traoré, you know, and we stand behind him and the Alliance of Sahel States and what they're doing. But Ghana, like I said, you know we have a US military base in our territory, you know so that agreement was signed on 24th February 1998 by the Rawlings administration with the US military and they've been having a certain type of cozy arrangement ever since, you know, and so it's very difficult for Ghana to go in a different direction, I mean go in the same direction. As the Alliance of Sahel said. We need to get rid of that US military base out of our territory and that will, you know, enable you know, clear thinking about the way forward. But with that, you know, clear thinking about the way forward. But with that, you know, being in the territory, you know it's difficult, I think, for the government to think clearly about. You know which way they want to go in, you know.

Speaker 3: 43:18

But I think the Alliance of Sahel State, they've expelled all those foreign military bases you know from their territory, and so we hope that Ghana will follow by expelling the US military presence out of our country, because they don't want anything but imperialism.

Speaker 1: 43:36

Right, I like this question. Right here Are some of the sisters still bleaching their skin.

Speaker 3: 43:42

Yes, yes, some of the sisters are still bleaching their skin and, like of these sisters are still bleaching their skin and, like we said, like I said earlier, because there's a dominant philosophy and ideology and it's foreign and and and it's reflected in how ancestry is projected, you know, in education, in philosophy, you know, and socially as well, and so foreign ancestors are being projected as dominant over our own.

Speaker 3: 44:15

You know, and so, with that, that's because of you know, foreign religious doctrine like Euro-Christianity and Wahhabism is pervasive in the country you know, throughout, all of pretty much throughout all of Africa, you know, and I'm not.

Speaker 1: 44:33

I'm uh-oh, uh-oh, alright, he's gonna have to go out and come back. He was cooking, he was cooking. Yeah, partner y'all you know, as we said, he's in Ghana, so bear with us, bear with us, yeah he was cooking with hot grease, man hot grease uh, not just sisters. Uh, leo the lion, what do you mean? Not just sisters? Who else?

Speaker 2: 45:14

is using bleaching cream. In other words, you know, check this out bleaching cream though. Well, it's one thing to bleach the skin, it's another thing to bleach the mind. Right, you know what I mean. One is kind of reversible. When you bleach the mind, that means everything that was about you, that was original, that came from your culture, you have extracted and replaced with something else.

Speaker 1: 45:41

And you know, oh, so the sister's saying the men are bleaching their skin too, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:49

Like Sammy Sosa. Remember Sammy Sosa? He was like darker than that yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:55

Oh, my God, man, I would like to see that. Not, you know, I would like to. Sammy Sosa, michael Jackson, michael Jackson we've seen it. I want to see, I want to experience that real quick. I want to see what's going on out there with that.

Speaker 2: 46:09

We've seen it. I mean, that's all the effects of, you know, white supremacy and neocolonialism. And my brother will tell you you'll see a picture of the white Jesus and right next to it you'll see a thing of advertising for Natanola bleach and cream. So they're saying, Macy, you can look like Jesus if you get this. See Two best-selling products, bleach and cream, and the Bible. Wow, yeah, we got some work to do on the continent. Man Right for sure.

Speaker 1: 46:40

So we were talking about. So one of the sisters in the chat said that the men are using bleaching cream as well.

Speaker 3: 46:48

It's true, it's true, but it's not. I don't think it's so widespread, but it is going on, yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:57

Okay. We hope to stop that right. Is it on its way out as a trend or is it just like it's still prevalent as prevalent as it was?

Speaker 3: 47:09

white supremacy, you know, and capitalism have merged. So, you know, since that economic system is dominant in the country, white supremacy is accompanying, that you know, and so it's expressing itself. Like Kwame Nkrumah wrote in neocolonialism, that mechanisms of neocolonialism. Evangelism is one of the key elements of neocolonialism. In Ghana, you know, and in Africa, nigeria, all over, you know evangelism. So they have evangelists that are, you know, they're buck wild.

Speaker 3: 47:54

In Ghana, you know, where, they have churches that stay up, keep people up all night, you know, not being able to sleep. You know it's crazy. You know it's like the religious indoctrination is, you know, really, really out there, you know, in the country. And so that's why I'm saying that the excesses of, you know, euro-christianity, euro-christianity itself, is a poison. It's poisoning the people and giving them inferiority complexes. White Jesus is all over Ghana. That's why we need to have independent philosophy and ideology from our own culture, you know our own experience and consciousness and make our African personality dominant. You know that's very key, you know, because what's happening is other personalities are dominating ours. You see, the European personality is dominant. That's why there's bleaching, that's why there's perming, that's why there's coat and ties, that's why people are being whipped for speaking their own language and only can speak English or French. That's why, you know, because their personality is dominant.

Speaker 1: 49:20

Got you, got you, got you.

Speaker 2: 49:23

I like how you said capitalism and white supremacy has merged and there's a really good book that talks about that, called Capitalism and Slavery. I don't know if y'all read that, by Eric I think it's Eric Williams, I think his name is and it kind of shows you that the rise of capitalism came through slavery and the rise of the white world came through slavery and capitalism. Without those two you would not see the white supremacist world that you see today. Period, eric Williams. Yeah, capitalism and slavery.

Speaker 1: 50:02

Yeah, oh, he's back, brother's back.

Speaker 2: 50:04

yeah, alright, oh, okay, he's back there you go, okay, you back family, okay, okay alright.

Speaker 1: 50:20

So next question is um, please tell us, please tell us about your book, and it will be out, and when will it be out and how, how we can get it. How we can get it I need glasses. Y'all, I need glasses. I keep avoiding it, man. You know man, but it's alright as long as you keep watching. I need glasses.

Speaker 2: 50:41

Your brother needs glasses.

Speaker 3: 50:43

I keep avoiding it, man, you know man, but it's all right, as long as you keep watching, I keep getting cut off. Yeah, I'm saying that our African personality has to be dominant and we have to be conscious about that, that we have to make our personality and our culture dominant, you know, and all the indigencies you know, related to that, especially in our own spaces, you know, and so we can't be remote control through somebody else's ancestry. You know they're remote controlling us through their ancestry, you know, and then we're assimilating things from their ancestry and culture and experience, and then, you know, now we become copycats and imitators. You know, wannabes, you know, and so that kind of you know, you can see that it's working for them. You know, with Colin Powell and Condoleezza and Obama and all them working where they have an African body but a Europeanized mind. And so if we allow our children to be educated like that, what, what's going to happen? You know, because the thinking is being derived from the material conditions. So we have to create conditions where our personality is able to dominate, and so then that will be, that would derive thinking that enables us to be able to dominate and contest where necessary. You know what I'm saying, and so, ok, about the book, you know I was.

Speaker 3: 52:16

I was intending to write a book about using higher order thinking skills to write to teach African history. That's what I was preparing, and I had already started on that book. But my mother was telling me that I should write an autobiography. And I was like, man, I'm not really interested in writing an autobiography, you know. And she was like nobody has done what you've done, so you should write an autobiography. And so I was like nobody has done what you've done, so you should write an autobiography. And so I was like, ok, well, you know, I hear you. And so she kept, you know. She told me oh, she even gave me an outline Like, ok, what about all these experiences that you could, you know, write an autobiography about? And I was like, ok. So I just was chilling and I thought about it. I was like, okay, well, let me go ahead and start an autobiography.

Speaker 3: 53:08

So I started, and then it started growing. It started developing faster than the other work I was doing on the other book. And so then, as time was going on, I started to reflect on a lot of different experiences and I was like well, yeah, because I think that a lot, of, a lot of our people can learn a lot from, from the experiences that I've gone through, you know, in the States and also in Africa, because I was in the States I was born in 66. And then I left the States in 91 to come here for about two years and off and on. Then in 99, I came permanently, so that's 99, 2009, 19. So I've been here for like 25 years, 26 years or 27 on the ground in Africa and in the States about 30 or so, you know. Yeah, so about 31 and about 27 here, and so that experience, you know, is invaluable and I'm hoping that by writing this autobiography then I can encourage the situation in Pan-Africanism among the African population in the States and also to educate the African population inside of Africa to be more cognizant or to be more learned about who the African population in the diaspora is. You know that. No, that what is in you is in them, because you have the same ancestry, and that's one of the key things in the book is to demonstrate that. No, you know the talent in gymnastics, in fighting, in running, in speaking, you know, in surviving, in dancing, you know in whatever. It's the same people and so certain things that's in us is coming from our people, you know, here, and we're the same people.

Speaker 3: 55:16

So I think that a lot of information is lacking about, you know, who we are in the diaspora, you know, and our relationship to our people at home. And in these movies, like Roots, they don't show a facial, they don't show what is it called Facial marks. You know, in those movies, you know they don't. They don't show that kuntikinte, if he was a mandinka he would have some marks on his face. You know, are the people who was icons, or they all have. They had like passports, and these crackers knew who they were and they were even negotiating based on their ethnicity, and britain even has a book with all the facial marks of the different ethnicities that were being captured to be able to identify exactly who they was. And so they knew who we were when we arrived over there and then what they did with the genocide in order to separate us from that information, you know.

Speaker 3: 56:20

So I think that it's important for me to write this autobiography in order to, one, give the background information On one that Africans didn't sell the Africans in the diaspora, that the majority of the people in Africa fought in order to keep us inside of Africa, and that's a very important point that needs to be clarified that the majority of Africans fought to keep us inside. There's a book called Fighting the Slave Trade West African Strategies by Sylvain Dior. That's another book I'd recommend. So, because that part of our history in Africa is the one that's excluded from, you know, educational system that we're exposed to. You know we don't hear about how our people were fighting to keep us at home. So that's where I'm getting the autobiography about how our families were fighting to keep us at home. You know, not collaborating. There was, there was kings that were collaborating in the capture of people of other ethnicities, not their own ethnic. So everybody was fighting to protect the people in their own ethnicity who they saw as being their own people. Everybody was fighting to protect them. And so it was national divisions that were being sold by arms trade, with guns coming in to change the terrain militarily in West Africa. So that's what was going on.

Speaker 3: 58:02

And so, going from that background, that's where I'm beginning the autobiography, you know, going from that background into you know. So I'm looking at it as not just me per se, but what are the conditions that created me to be in the condition that I was born over there. You know what happened before we're over there, africans who can't speak our language and don't know our traditional, don't know our surnames and don't know our God concept surnames and don't know our God concept, you know, don't know our geographical location of origin, you know, just like all the Africans here. They all know that. You know. So why we're over there and we don't know that? You know. And so those things we have to get to the bottom of that. You get me. We got to get to the bottom of that and not sugarcoat our dance around things.

Speaker 3: 59:02

No, straight up, you know how, what, what are the conditions that created the population of africans in that particular state? You know, and it was conscious and it was calculated. You know, it's conscious thing, that was calculated, it was, it was genocide. And so I'm saying it's not was genocide, it is genocide, you know. And so I'm putting all this information in this book to clarify some of those things is really helpful, because I can see, you know, I can see you know how the population of Africans is in the snakes and in how our people are living here, you know, and in how the conscious element is in both places and in how ignorance is pervasive in both places and in what the strategy of our enemy is in both places, with both populations, you get to see how mental slavery is designed over there and in how colonial mentality is designed over here, you follow, I'm saying yeah. So I think that having that insight and I'm pretty insightful, a brother, you know I can see what's going on, you know to the present, and then look at our people's experience too and try to, you know, draw inferences from my personal experience to the general experience of our people, because I think my own experience is a good.

Speaker 3: 1:00:53

I was brainwashed, just like everybody else. You know brainwashed, you know. So you know, but fortunately you know brainwash, you know, so you know, but hopefully, fortunately, you know, and happily you know, I was woke up. I had it in me to wake up and change from the brainwashing, you know. But it happens to a lot of us, you know that way that are conscious, if we didn't come from conscious families, that you know where the family had African names, or they were in the UNIA or in the nation, or in the AAPRP or you know, as some form of organization, you know. So I wasn't, I, my family wasn't in those organizations. You know they was fighting and struggling just like everybody else, you know, but resisting racism in the best way they knew how, just like anybody else. But I wasn't privileged to be come from a family like Kenyatta's father was in the black parent department. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so I didn't get that kind of orientation growing up, you know, and so you know. But we struggle how we can.

Speaker 1: 1:02:02

Indeed. Well, on that note, man. I mean we have two more questions, but hopefully you'll come back and we'll ask these last questions and even some more. Man, I'm glad to have you, brother.

Speaker 3: 1:02:19

I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 1:02:20

Yeah, and I was going to say family. You know, we definitely have a need for a voice and a mind like yours on the show family, the Black Roundtable. So we want to invite you to come and be our you know, be our professor, our resident professor man, and speak to us in the audience on these issues, past and current. You know, family, all right.

Speaker 1: 1:02:41

Yep.

Speaker 2: 1:02:42

And that's an example of Pan-Africanism, because we're over here, you're over there, da-da-da. Just that very relationship, Yep.

Speaker 3: 1:02:49

Indeed Well. We define Pan-Africanism as the total liberation and unification of Africa under an all-African socialist government.

Speaker 2: 1:03:02

That's how we define Pan-Africanism. We need that very often on the show to be reminded of the true essence of what it is and not the interpretations or the commentary on it, because we're getting too much of that.

Speaker 3: 1:03:13

We see Pan-Africanism as being dialectical, like all things. I forget the leader of AFRICOM. You know he was in. I recall what's that, the man? I think he resigned recently.

Speaker 2: 1:03:32

Yeah, I know who you're talking about.

Speaker 3: 1:03:34

I forgot his name, the one who criticized the trial rank in the legislature in the states.

Speaker 3: 1:03:42

Yeah, so I'm saying him coming to me him coming to me what Alassane Ouattara, a reactionary African head of state, is Pan-Africanism, you know. But what kind of Pan-Africanism is that? You know, reactionaries in the diaspora meeting with the reactionaries in Africa? That's not going to help us to liberate our continent and improve our people's condition, you know. So we need to have Pan-Africanism. That we're looking at the masses of our people who work, who struggle, and having those people organized, coming together in a way that's going to be beneficial to all of us, not just a few, you know, and so that's how we're looking at Pan-Africanism. You know, and the only real Pan-Africanism that's relevant is revolutionary Pan-Africanism. You know, where we have to change everything. We have to take. We have to, we have to, you know, have to take these white people's names and discard them and use our own names. We need to come home. We need to eat our own food, healthy food, wear our own clothes, organize ourselves and take power.

Speaker 1: 1:04:57

Take power. Indeed indeed, brother. Now, before we close out, I want to know what's your favorite Ghanaian dish.

Speaker 3: 1:05:09

My favorite Ghanaian dish is Banco and Tilapia with pepper and Shito.

Speaker 2: 1:05:15

You're eating good, brother. Yes sir.

Speaker 1: 1:05:20

Peace to everybody. Really appreciate you, brother. Thank you for bringing up this guest man. I really appreciate it, man, and we are out of here. Peace Black.

Speaker 2: 1:05:33

Power.

Speaker 1: 1:05:37

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm.