The Garifuna Heritage with Martine

Journey with us as we explore the remarkable resilience and cultural depth of the Garifuna people through the eyes of Martine (known to many as "Teenie"), a Bronx-born keeper of Garifuna heritage with roots in Honduras.

The story begins in St. Vincent and the Grenadines, where the Garifuna, led by Paramount Chief Joseph Chatoyer, fought valiantly against British colonizers until their eventual exile. Rather than perish on the barren island of Baliceaux as intended, they survived and established vibrant communities across Honduras, Guatemala, Belize, and Nicaragua. This diaspora explains why many Garifuna people today speak multiple languages while maintaining their own rich cultural practices.

Drums—described by Martine as "portal openers"—form the spiritual backbone of Garifuna culture. These instruments create pathways between worlds during ceremonies like the Dugu, where ancestors and the living commune in sacred spaces. Traditional dances tell powerful stories: Punta originated as a funeral ritual symbolizing the circle of life, while the warrior dance Mascaro (Junko Nu) commemorates how Garifuna men once dressed as women to outwit colonizers who threatened their communities.

Throughout our conversation, Martine shares personal insights into growing up between worlds—navigating American life in the Bronx while discovering her Garifuna heritage, which wasn't always openly embraced at home. She speaks candidly about spiritual gifts that manifest across generations and the challenges facing Garifuna spirituality today, from technological distractions pulling youth away from traditions to ongoing land rights struggles in Honduras.

This episode bridges worlds—connecting listeners to a culture that survived against impossible odds while offering wisdom about community healing, ancestral connection, and the powerful truth that what separates us is merely "bodies of water and flags." Subscribe now and join us in celebrating the enduring legacy of the Garifuna people.

Transcript

Welcome to NYP Talk Show

Speaker 1 0:11

peace world how you doing. It's your brother, mikey fever. Miss you all. Welcome to another episode of nyp talk show. Hope all is well with the brothers and sisters out there, our listeners and our viewers. Don't forget to comment, like, share, subscribe. We have super chat and tonight we have a special guest who will be giving us some enlightenment and education about the Garofina culture and heritage. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Martine of Garifuna. Warriors Peace. I'm working this pad out, but it's all good.

Speaker 2 0:54

Are you shooting me for it?

Speaker 1 0:55

Yeah, I know I should. I'm bad about that. You see, it's that Brooklyn man.

Speaker 2 0:59

My bad.

Speaker 1 1:00

How you doing, Miss Martine.

Speaker 2 1:03

I am good, how are you?

Speaker 1 1:05

All is well. I'm good In recovery mode, but all good.

Speaker 2 1:10

You're healing, you're healing.

Speaker 1 1:14

Of course, of course. That's what matters, man, I'm happy to have you here.

Speaker 2 1:16

Happy to be here.

Speaker 1 1:18

Of course, man. This interview was supposed to happen long ago, but now we got it on track. I know we got to educate long ago, but now we got it on track. I know we got to educate the people and we want to know more about the Garofina culture. But before we go into that, give us an introduction. Where are you from?

Speaker 2 1:36

Okay, my name is Martine. Everybody knows me as Teenie. I was born in the bronx, new york, um boogie down what else, of course, and um, um, yeah, I'm born and raised in the bronx. My family's from honduras. We are garifuna from honduras there's many uh-huh and um. I I do have family in guatemala, belize, um, everywhere. I don't have to have a hotel to go to these places because family will open their doors.

Speaker 1 2:22

So that's peace right there. So, being that you was born in the bronx families from honduras, you got family in guatemala. Um, how was your upbringing in the bronx?

Speaker 2 2:41

it was. I'm gonna be honest, because, um, being raised in a domestic violence home, um, we tend to keep everything what happens at home stays at home. So it was a little rough. Um, you know, I have family members that you know stuck in and try to help raise us at a young age. So, but it's, it was a little rough. It was a little rough, but what I can tell you is that I was fortunate to have parents that took care of us.

Speaker 1 3:17

SPs.

Speaker 2 3:19

Who were like oh yeah, you was fed with a silver spoon. Yeah, we had a lot of stuff. We had to earn it. So my childhood was a little rough as well, but I enjoyed the moments.

Speaker 1 3:32

And when I mean upbringing, as far as being at your family's from Honduras, like, and you're being born here, right, correct, that's correct, right.

Speaker 2 3:39

You're born here.

Speaker 1 3:40

How did you mesh both cultures, Like the american way of upbringing in you know the honduras way?

Growing Up Garifuna in the Bronx

Speaker 2 3:50

um, so to be honest, right to be honest, yes, my parents are from honduras. However, my dad was mostly with the puerto ricans. He did not affiliate himself as a Garifuna male. He didn't. I guess he knew he was Garifuna. He knew, but that was never in the household. He did not want us to play punta at the house, he looked at it as voodoo music. My mom, on the other hand, she spoke the language, she knew how to cook the food, she danced and she was a visionary, like she knew what she wanted. You know, growing up she was sent to this country for school and she just developed from there. But with the culture she snuck it in little by little, with the music, the food.

Speaker 1 4:47

Both parents. Both parents. All from Honduras.

Speaker 2 4:53

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 4:54

Okay, okay, and have you been to Honduras?

Speaker 2 4:57

So I have been to Honduras. My first time was in 2010.

Speaker 1 5:02

Mm-hmm, nice, nice, like. How did you do the typical like when you, coming home, kiss the ground off the airplane? I've caught the plane kissing the ground like I'm home and no, I did not.

Speaker 2 5:14

I, it was a culture shock for me because, um, we never spoke about hond. The only time we knew about Honduras was when we was behaving bad as kids. My grandmother or my mother was like, if you continue behaving bad, we're going to send you to Honduras, because over there they're going to discipline you in school. And I was always afraid of going to Honduras. I was always afraid of going to Honduras. So I had to break that generational mental curse where. Let me just go to Honduras and see for myself. And I was like, oh my God, I got dirt roads, like, oh my God, you're drinking water out of a plastic bag. It was a lot. It was a lot.

Speaker 1 5:58

I was like really no, no, but not what, let's keep it real Well. My family family, that is, they're good, they well off. I have friends that from other countries that went to stay with my family they, they are good. But the same tactic where you were used by my parents when I was misbehaving, I'm gonna send you to haiti and you're gonna see what they go through and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 6:19

That happens when my cousin shouts my cousin real, they sent them to to Haiti. The funny thing is I remember when my mom and my pops tried to get a ticket to send me out there.

Speaker 2 6:31

I must have been like 12, 13.

Speaker 1 6:32

I ran away from home. They didn't see me in two days. You're going to lose that ticket, yeah. That money you paid, you're going to lose, and I made sure they lost it.

Speaker 2 6:46

It's not going to work over here.

Speaker 1 6:47

Sorry, next time, right. So what I'm going to do right there with you and I'm glad that you broke it down for us let's get into some questions about the Garifuna culture. Okay, you know what I'm saying. So we can educate and bring further enlightenment for our viewers and listeners, and maybe they could add on in the comment section when they catch Driftless episode. So let's go. Who are the Garofina people and how did they migrate?

Speaker 2 7:16

I mean pardon me, how did they?

Speaker 1 7:17

originate.

Speaker 2 7:18

Got you, I understood. So we started off with St Vincent and the Grenadines. We had our Garifuna leader, our leader called chief joseph southway, paramount chief joseph southway. I can't forget that paramount because he was super powerful. Um, we started off there and then the colonizers came in. They kicked us out.

Speaker 2 7:43

The the word that they use is exiled. I'm going to be straightforward. They kicked us out of saint vincent. They put us in an island rock called baliso now baliso, I call it now. Um, it's a cemetery without the tombstones because they sent us that. Yeah, they sent us there to just perish, to just die, to end that tribe. So most of them they were able to make it out go to Honduras, guatemala, belize and Nicaragua. So this is why most of us speak Spanish and most of us speak English speak Spanish and most of us speak English. Belize they speak English because of their colonizers, which is the British. And then in Honduras, you got the Spaniards, and so this is why one country speaks English and the other I mean one part of Garifuna culture, the Garinago people speak english and some of them speak spanish. There's some that speaks french. Um, there's some we speak. We adapt. We adapt to anything. If we gotta make our way. We're gonna. We're gonna get what we need to get all right, understood.

Speaker 1 9:01

So you mean to tell me the colonizers came in and they moved the people into a desolate island that that, where land was not fertile, they couldn't cultivate any way of living, and expect them to die out?

Speaker 2 9:16

correct. However, I I didn't mention this. We were at war with the British, with the colonizers, for so many years. We defeated them. Okay, we defeated them so many times because we wanted to stay home. Like, why are you coming into somebody's house and kick them out? Like we're going to put up a fight? So we put up a fight and we won majority of the fights until that last day. Yeah, that's what they do, so I'm not sure how many years we've been fighting with the British.

Speaker 1 9:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2 9:52

But it was a long time, but the day that they killed our leader, that was when everything went pshh.

Speaker 1 10:01

And his name again.

Speaker 2 10:03

Paramount Chief Joseph Satoyer. I say Satoyer, st Vincent says Shatoyer. Different pronunciation, but the same person.

Speaker 1 10:14

Got you. That's peace man, and what we're doing here at NYP is that we like to bring different cultures so we could change On this platform is to be in control of our own narrative, and when we say being in control. It's not to fabricate nothing. We're going to tell the story like it is, but in the correct way, where we don't have to always be like. Slavery is our genesis. That's all we know about you. You guys are victims. No, this is you know, show the beautiful side of our cultures you know, build that bridge.

Speaker 1 10:45

So that's what it's about. So I have a second question for you, which is what languages do the Garifuna speak and how are they preserved today?

Speaker 2 10:57

So in Honduras they speak Garifuna. They speak Garifuna, english, spanish, french. Like I said, wherever they're located. They will adapt and learn that language, just to survive. I think most of the Garifuna people are on survival mode to this day to get where they need to get. Yeah, I know, right now in Honduras it's chaos. It was chaos, it's still chaos. They're still killing us. They're still trying to take our land that belongs to us there in Honduras, even though we got proof from people that that's our land, but they're still trying to take it away from us. So it's still a battle. It's still a battle, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 11:41

Can you give an example of the dialect that's spoken?

Speaker 2 11:44

in.

Speaker 1 11:44

Honduras of the Garifuna language.

Speaker 2 11:47

Yeah, oh, thank you, because I was not going to put a post. So we have one that says good morning, which is Bwiti Binafi, good afternoon Bwiti Rambawayu, and we have good night.

Origins of the Garifuna People

Speaker 1 12:09

I got. You see, now I'm a pro right now I know the language. Now that's it. That's all I needed.

Speaker 2 12:15

I'm straight those are the important. Those are the important ones. So.

Speaker 1 12:21

I respect that. How did the Garifuna people alright, we already got that, you know. How did the Garifuna people alright, we already got that. You know how did the Garifuna people arrive in Central America from St Vincent and you basically went through that, how they were exiled to an island. Yeah, what role does drumming play in the Garifuna music and spirituality?

Speaker 2 12:48

a huge part without, without our drums, and I call them portal openers. There's it's like how can I say it? You know, when you're making a certain ingredient, is that one important ingredient that's missing? That's the Garifuna drum for Garifuna people Like you have to have Garifuna drums in any event. If it's a Garifuna event, just make sure you just have those drums. When it comes to spirituality, we normally play the drums. We have different genres in our community, I mean in our community, in our music, we have a whole bunch and in those genres we have different dances that have different meanings. When there's an ancestral ceremony, there's a rhythm for that. There's a rhythm for that. There's a rhythm for that, along with songs oh, really so like.

Speaker 2 13:50

So basically, the drums is the pulse of the people's, the heartbeat, the backbone that keeps it going any other instruments are utilized so we have the maracas, we have the conch shell um we normally we use the turtle shell or the cowbell okay, it's very similar to many other cultures out there oh yeah, oh yeah that's cool, that's dope.

Speaker 1 14:20

What are some traditional garifuna dances and what do they symbolize?

Speaker 2 14:25

Okay, so we have the most important one and most popular one, which is Punta. Punta is one of our many dances where, back in the days, when somebody passed away because Punta is is is a is a dance, it's a a call it the ritual dance. Where, when somebody passed away because punta is a dance, I call it a ritual dance. Where, when somebody passes away, they would play punta and a male and a female obviously a married couple would have to dance.

Speaker 1 14:58

Really.

Speaker 2 14:59

And, yeah, married couple have to dance and there will be a candle there, whether a candle or the body that's present, the deceased person, that male and that female, have to dance and they have to replace that soul that passed away. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 15:19

That makes sense. I'm following along. I'm following along, okay.

Speaker 2 15:23

So basically they have to have a baby to replace that soul, so that soul can come somewhere else or go into that baby.

Speaker 1 15:29

Got you, I got you.

Speaker 2 15:31

I call it the circle of life, literally.

Speaker 1 15:34

No, that's what it symbolizes, because after the dancing they got to go Mm-hmm, talk to me and do adult things to reproduce.

Speaker 2 15:43

Of course, like I have to dumb it down for my kids, because my kids meeting students when I teach is a circle of life. A man and a woman have to make a baby to replace the person that passed away. Call it the circle of life.

Speaker 1 15:58

I got you.

Speaker 2 16:01

And then we have one other one, also known as Mascaro, also known as Junko Nu. It's the Garifuna Warrior Dance. It's a dance to basically trick the colonizers. So history has it because Chief Joseph Satie was super intelligent and super strategic. Because Chief Joseph Satie was super intelligent and super strategic, there's part of our history where Barauda, who was his main wife, because he had many wives, barauda was very, very fed up and the most important line that she says you wear my skirt and I wear your pants, it gave them.

Speaker 2 16:46

Oh, because history has it that you know, when our Garifuna men will go fishing or go out the house to go do something, the women will stay in the house, either cook, clean X, y and Z. The colonizers will come into the house to take advantage of the women, of course. So what Satoye did was put the skirt on, stood in the house, cleaned, cooked all that stuff to trick the enemy. So when the enemy went in there and tried to do what he normally did to women, he found himself with the men and that's how they were able to beat the colonizers in that form they're very smart strategy right here yes, yes.

Speaker 2 17:33

So it's when we see the gari from our males now, when they're dancing gari from um, they were dressed as women, with skirts, nice um, a blouse and a mask and colorful ribbons and all that stuff. So that's the warrior dance.

Speaker 1 17:49

I got you.

Speaker 2 17:50

And then we have gunche, which is more for like a formal dance. It's more of a quadrille dance. I don't know if you've ever seen. You've seen Bridgerton, right? I don't know if you've heard of it.

Speaker 1 18:08

Can you repeat that?

Speaker 2 18:10

Bridgerton. It's one of those Netflix movies.

Speaker 1 18:13

No, no, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 18:15

Okay, so you know about the royal family. They will have a dance and it'll be like couples, and then you'll have to switch.

Speaker 1 18:24

Oh, okay, mm-hmm, and it'll be like couples, and then you'll have to switch oh, okay, we have a dance like that.

Speaker 2 18:28

It's called gun che. Um, yeah, that's another, a different rhythm as well. It's a formal dance. It's like when you go to a gala, this is the dance you would do yeah, I've seen.

Speaker 1 18:41

I've seen. I've been to galas, but not where they perform that. But I've seen other functions that do it, which might be odd, but I didn't know. There was more of a meaning behind it. But now I understand.

Speaker 2 18:53

Oh, yeah, it is, it definitely is.

Speaker 1 18:55

I got you with that. So how is ancestor veneration practiced in the Garifuna spirituality veneration practice in the?

Speaker 2 19:04

Garifuna spirituality. So one thing about Garifuna people we're very ancestral. Basically, we have ceremonies. It's called the gu. This is where both worlds meet. In the ceremony we normally we always have drums, always with a rhythm. We are not allowed to wear black because it attracts negativity. So, and then there's always a bouye. There Bouye is a high priestess that's making sure that everything is in control and they need to do what they need to do. We normally I keep saying normally, because we do we put food out, Because when there's like a bunch of families together, they're coming with their ancestors. When we feed them, there's a huge table there. We put whatever those family members bring, whether it's fruits, candy, their favorite food, their favorite drink. If you don't put a candle, you're more than welcome to put a candle. Whatever you want to bring, you're more than welcome to put a candle. Whatever you want to bring, you're more than welcome to put at the table. Gotcha, Of course, there's songs that go with them. During that ceremony we're wearing uniforms, Really A specific color.

Speaker 1 20:40

Okay.

Speaker 2 20:41

Specific pattern For that ceremony Can you get into?

Speaker 1 20:47

details of that pattern.

Speaker 2 20:50

It's normally checkered. Sometimes it's regular colors, it's not patterns Skirts for women. Yeah, dashiki for men, like regular colors, is not patterns Skirts for women. Dashiki for men. You have to have your scarf on to protect your ori.

Speaker 1 21:11

The ori yeah.

Speaker 2 21:15

We have to and you don't have to because people be like, oh, I don't understand anything. Trust me, you're going to find somebody that's going to translate for you, because majority of our rizqa is in Gari Fana and they speak Gari Fana and some of our messages are in Gari Fana. So there's somebody that's going to be translating for you Because me, me, the person, because I don't understand it, I don't speak it. I just know the certain words, important words, I it, I just know the certain words, important words. I tend to be like what she said, what happened? Because everybody's like, oh, why? And I'm like I want to ooh-ah too, what's going on? So, with that spiritual ceremony, it sums up a lot of stuff. Let's say, you and I got a beef and we go to the ceremony. The ancestors are going to make sure that we're going to squash that beef right there.

Speaker 1 22:09

Really.

Speaker 2 22:10

Yep, and if you don't get to act together, there's consequences.

Drums and Cultural Dances

Speaker 1 22:16

I like that. So it's community-based. That's what I noticed with a lot of these spiritual practices the people that really follow it to its core. It's community-based. I don't know what they're doing now online or in the physical, where they constantly are bickering with each other, and I'm going to do this to this person, I'm going to do such and that I don't agree with you.

Speaker 1 22:38

It's important to have the elders present to keep the unification, because I don't know what's going on. It's important to have the elders present to keep the unification because I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 2 22:46

It's a double-edged sword. It's a double-edged sword because sometimes our elders don't want to teach the young ones and there's the young ones that don't want to learn from the elders. There's that friction right there and there's that gap that needs to be filled, because we're going to be elders soon and we need to teach the next generation. So it's, it's, it's been, it's a little bit of a challenge the culture basically dies out because the generational gap, egos, are involved.

Speaker 1 23:17

I don't want to hear from you, and you know the younger is the same what you felt. That's why we still in this position, the youngest feeling, that feeling that we're going to break the curse Instead of coming together and learning from the errors you know that's across the board in dealing with so-called Black or Indigenous African people.

Speaker 2 23:36

All right.

Speaker 1 23:38

I have. One is what is the significance of cassava in Garifuna cuisine and culture, also known as moniok, which we do say in Creole as well?

Speaker 2 23:50

what do you call it?

Speaker 1 23:51

moniok moniok.

Speaker 2 23:55

We call it ereba. That's in Garifuna, ereba, a huge significance, it's huge. We snack on it like we're bored or whatever. We want to snack on something, we eat it and whatnot. But that was our main, one of our main dishes cassava. We do um porridge with it. We do many dishes with it. I just can't name it on top of our hat, my head, but I know it's a porridge. We call it at allol in Garifuna's Adulu. We take the starch from it and we make atol the porridge. I know that for a fact. We do a lot of stuff. We boil it, we fry it, we do everything with it. We make a salad out of it. We just we get creative because we get bored. So we get creative with Ereba.

Speaker 2 24:47

But cassava is our main one of our thing. We eat it with our machuca, joduto or jodut, depending where you're at. We eat it with the soup.

Speaker 1 24:58

What is machuca?

Speaker 2 25:00

So machuca is a coconut-based soup with seafood in it. You got your crabs, you got your lobsters, you have your um your shrimps, you have your of caracoles, your how you say caracol caracoles. Oh my god. You have that, and then you get your green and yellow um plantains and you boil it and then you mash it, you have your separate plates um and then you eat it. It's basically like fufu um. Back in the days we used to eat it with our hands, but now we eat it with our spoons and fish.

Speaker 1 25:44

I can't forget the fish, you can either have it fried, or you can have it in your soup, making me sound very hungry right now.

Speaker 2 25:55

You better eat that around 12 o'clock pm. Don't eat that before you go to sleep. It's a very heavy meal. You'll be put in a coma. Yeah, this is why when the men back in the days used to go to work, they will come home hungry and that will be the main dish.

Speaker 1 26:12

They would eat something super happy and then just go to sleep all right, I'm looking for a honduras restaurant and make sure it's Garifuna.

Speaker 2 26:23

You better hope somebody's there, I'd rather you. I'll direct you to a Garifuna that will make my checkup for you. I wouldn't recommend you to go to a Honduran restaurant for that.

Speaker 1 26:31

All right, I got you. Appreciate that and this is.

Speaker 2 26:39

You know, it's funny, this question right.

Speaker 1 26:40

Here is what we were speaking about earlier. How are garifuna oral traditions used to used to pass down history and values?

Speaker 2 26:51

we did talk to about this. I think it's it was weak. When I say weak because the communication with the elders and the youth was never there, remember, and I think we all in the african diaspora across the board of course we were never in grown folks business, and even if it was, we would get kicked out because it's none of our business.

Speaker 2 27:19

we're too young to even understand, so we never ask questions. And even if we did ask questions, it's like what our business? We're too young to even understand so we never ask questions. And even if we did ask questions, it's like what you want to know? That for For what? Get out of here, go play. And so we did what our parents told us to do Go play. We never cared about gutting from the traditions. Well, me I'm speaking for me. I don't know about everybody else, but for me and my household. They didn't teach us that.

Speaker 1 27:43

they teach us that we had to learn on our own that is so messed up it's, and so the elders within the african diaspora. It's important to teach the young. You can't have them running around here running their head into the wall or say, oh well, I have to learn on my own, so therefore you gotta go through the same process. No, it's best to catch them and tell them yield and pay heed to what I'm about to teach you, because I've been down this route before.

Speaker 2 28:05

Right.

Speaker 1 28:06

But you know, again it's at a point where the elders are afraid to speak to the youth out of fear because of the backlash I remember I want to take away from the youth, but a lot of them they don't have much interaction with one another really, other than the phone, so by the time they're around each other they don't know how to interact hold a conversation and interact, engage people. They think everything is just through social media. I was able to do this, so you should accept that, because I'm doing it in person right.

Speaker 1 28:39

I know it can't separate the virtual reality from reality, so yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 28:46

it's hard because, again, like you mentioned, picking back up for what you just said, with the technology, nowadays everybody's like this. Me in the 80s, 90s, I used to go outside, fall off the trees, get scars okay, I used to play basketball. I used to play. 90s. I used to go outside, fall off the trees, get scars Okay, I used to play basketball. I used to play manhunt, I used to play all of that Roller blade. We did exercise as kids, like we just didn't care. Now these kids, when I went to school teaching these kids, if they fall, I need a band-aid.

Speaker 1 29:20

Yeah, it's crazy. Or they're watching videos of other children playing outside on YouTube. I'm like that does not make sense, there's no activities for them.

Speaker 2 29:30

There's no activity for them.

Speaker 1 29:32

We were creative.

Speaker 2 29:34

We were super creative with a lot of stuff. No, but these kids are not creative Like. I remember making up dances. I don't see these kids making up dances Now. They do TikTok and it's like I don't know what that is.

Speaker 1 29:47

We're dancing right, waving their arms side to side, and they're like that's a dance. I don't know, I have no idea. What is the Dugu ceremony and why?

Speaker 2 30:04

is it important to important to Garifuna spirituality?

Speaker 1 30:06

That's what I was telling you about. The dance with the.

Speaker 2 30:07

No, the spiritual ceremony is called the Guh.

Speaker 1 30:13

I'm saying it wrong. It's the Guh.

Speaker 2 30:15

The Guh, it's okay, I'm here to teach and learn.

Speaker 1 30:18

It's the Guh, alright, so we got into that. Yeah, the.

Speaker 2 30:23

Guh is an to learn. It's the good. Yeah, the good is a ancestral, ancestral ceremony where family gets together. If there's a message that needs to be said to the family, whatever we need to listen to it and go by it. Majority of these, the good ceremonies, is to bring people, the families, together because we've been broken up so long. Or if somebody has a dream and let's say in that dream somebody wants a plate of food.

Speaker 2 30:58

Okay that person that dreamt it either makes a plate of food and give it to that person or tell the priest this was my dream. The priest will tell you what to do now if you don't do it. That's when stuff starts happening. Why they make this plate for this ancestor that asked for a plate of food when stuff starts happening. Why they make this play for this ancestor that acts for the plate of food.

Speaker 2 31:27

We're taking you so long, and some people because of religion, some people are afraid of it. Some people they fear it a lot, and I'm talking about my elders. Some of them still fear these ceremonies. They don't know how to move forward with it. Versus now, this generation, millennials is like what we gotta do. Let's get things done, because by the end of the day, I am not going to get hurt or or get consequences right here because of you. No, let's get this plate of food, let's get this together, come on, and that's how we work.

Ancestral Ceremonies and Spirituality

Speaker 1 32:06

I like that. See Innovators. Yes, I got another one for you. How do Garofina people blend African indigenous and Catholic spiritual practices?

Speaker 2 32:22

If I don't know anything, I'm going to. If I don't know anything, I'm going to say I don't know.

Speaker 2 32:25

I'm going to tell you what I know. I know Catholic plays a huge role in the Garifuna community. They go to church, they do the mass Before our Dugu ceremonies. They have to have a priest blessed or whatever, and then start the ceremony. Me personally, because our ancestors didn't have to use Catholic you know the religion of Catholic to do what they needed to do. To be honest, I feel that this is something. It's brand new because before religion came into play, we already was doing our stuff.

Speaker 1 33:15

Yeah. Just putting it out there.

Speaker 2 33:18

I know this is going to be some good. I don't care, but that's the truth. Before religion came, we were still doing our things yeah, it's like that across the board.

Speaker 1 33:33

It's just that we had to hide our deities, our expression of God, behind the Catholic saints, which that practice is called synchronicity. So, and the thing is like. We want to know what was the purest form of method that was used prior to slavery. So I understand where you're coming from.

Speaker 2 33:54

So because it's my ancestors and that's what they used to do. I guess they want to continue that tradition, having the priest there, having jesus photo there, having all of that and it. It bothers my spirit. But if this is how they do their stuff, we're going to continue doing their stuff until somebody says enough is enough. This is not not my ancestor.

Speaker 1 34:22

Johnny Depp.

Speaker 2 34:24

Negative, negative, bumble cloud. Yes, I got you Even doing the cross symbol and whatever we used to pray to the gods from the north and east and west, and you know north, south, east, west.

Speaker 1 34:51

We, that was our cause well, you know, if you look at the unk, that's what you know the four cardinal points access points. You know the four cardinal points access points you know the portals. Yes, what you about to say. I know we can't say much on here, but I got to.

Speaker 2 35:13

I know Continue.

Speaker 1 35:15

YouTube is married with a sensor. Don't want to hurt nobody's feelings.

Speaker 2 35:19

Okay, sensitive answers.

Speaker 1 35:23

I got another one for you. What training and initiation must a bullier undergo?

Speaker 2 35:31

I don't think there's no training. To be honest, you think I'd be born with it. This is my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong If my people wouldn't have listened. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong If my Garifuna people wouldn't have Listen. I'm still learning. Some of us are born with gifts. Okay, they're born with gifts, like there's certain gifts that's passed down from generation to generation. We there's certain of us that dream that we see things, we hear things and whatnot. And some of us have to go through hell in life to come out like, okay, what's going on? Some people have to go to a bouillie to get counsel, like what's going on with you know?

Speaker 1 36:22

and there's certain steps, what you said they had to go to a bouillé to get counsel, like what's going on with you know, and then there's certain steps what you said. They had to go through a process Bouillé, they had to go through a process to get counsel.

Speaker 2 36:30

Counsel.

Speaker 1 36:31

Counsel oh, okay, apologize, I thought you said counsel.

Speaker 2 36:36

I tend to speak fast, but, yeah, they go to the Garifite priestess, tell them their dream, what's going on, how they feel, x, y and Z, and some people tend to be like, okay, I don't know how to put this in words, but when it comes to that, it's a whole process.

Speaker 1 36:59

I can't really speak about the process. It's for me, sacred, yeah, no, that's what I was going to say.

Speaker 2 37:08

if you can, but just like a what you want to say, like a general. Okay, yeah, I can tell you this. If a person is going through that process, they have to be in isolation, no communication with the world whatsoever. Your phones are taken away, every electronic that you you have taken away you have to go through this alone yeah, you have to go through this alone. Yep, nobody can see you. You cannot be seen.

Speaker 2 37:36

For the specific days that you are isolated, they cannot see you any special diets no, not that I know of, because my ancestors still ate pork and all that, like there was no restrictions or nothing, hey, hey, that's what they used to eat back in the days, and so you know things have been changing. I can tell you that much. I know I mess with you.

Speaker 1 38:11

And to the pork eaters out there. I'm not trying to offend you, Just pork on my fork.

Speaker 2 38:18

You know I'm sorry, but it's the truth. Okay, you know I'm sorry, but it's the truth I guess now this generation and most people are like okay, we can't eat pork, why? Because x, y and z. Granted, I get it, but most of our ancestors, we had to, and when we put our offering, pork is in that table don't get me wrong.

Speaker 1 38:40

I see that, listen, in Haitian food. When people make offerings, certain deities do require pork and you know, when I go to these ceremonies they be kind of offering that plate. I be like, nah, I'm good, but you know, in my heart I'm there with you. You know what I'm saying do you eat?

Speaker 2 38:55

now my question to you when you, when they put food in the plate, do you eat the food?

Speaker 1 39:02

No, here's how it goes. First, what they do, depending on the house, from what I have seen, they put the food on the table as an offering. You take a little bit, not from the actual plate. They serve them first, basically, and then you eat what's left behind.

Speaker 2 39:20

What's left behind right. No no, my question is when they are discarding the food from the table, do you eat from the plate?

Speaker 1 39:30

the ancestors plate is my question oh, no, no, no, you usually bring into like the woods, or something by a tree or something like that okay, we do the same thing you do the same thing too.

Speaker 2 39:39

Right, do the same thing too, right. Sometimes and I'm sometimes the person that puts up. Let's say, I put a plate there, right. Let's say, I put a plate of cookies. I'm not allowed to eat from there. But you can, Everybody else can, but I'm not.

Speaker 1 39:57

That's true, but let me tell you, when I was a child, I used to tear those cookies up when I go by my people's house.

Speaker 2 40:11

you know I didn't know any better.

Speaker 1 40:12

Oh my gosh, put my finger through the cake and, oh my goodness, a fried piece of let me see get this is funny, yeah, but now people are just waking up.

Speaker 2 40:20

It's like like no, don't touch it. That's the answer. Say, let them have it, let them have it, let them have it.

Speaker 1 40:26

My mentality back then was I'm hungry too, you know listen.

Speaker 2 40:30

We're going to stop playing.

Speaker 1 40:31

I was a child, don't forget me, but I was, because you know.

Speaker 2 40:35

I was like man. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 40:45

I don't time for this soda ray. I'm giving that damn soda, I get it. Oh my gosh, will I do?

Speaker 2 40:47

that now, no, never you must be crazy.

Speaker 1 40:47

All right, that makes sense, never. How are sacred, how are sacred spaces chosen for ceremonies?

Speaker 2 40:57

um for ceremonies. You have to build a debuyaba and it takes a village to help out. A debuyaba is a temple house it's made out of. Yeah, they help, the whole village helps. This is not just a one-man thing. They're going to tell you this is a good happening. Okay, everybody knows. Okay, we need help here to build this, the good happening. Okay, everybody knows. Okay, we need help here to build this. Um, the boyaba, the, the temple so we, we get it.

Speaker 2 41:31

oh my god, I can't believe I it just I can't even tell you, but they help out building this, um, this temple, and you have to build like a room for the altar Really, and yeah, it's big, depending on the family and whatnot, or depending on what the ancestors want.

Speaker 2 41:54

I like that there's some sorry, there's some of the girls that will last a week. I remember my grandmother was telling me that there was a girl that lasted almost two months. No, two weeks, she told me. And the thing is, you can't bathe like that, like you can't wash your body, like you got to be there raw Really. But of course they give you lemon for your underarms and for your your hot spots. That's what I call it.

Speaker 1 42:27

I respect that it's intense. It's a sacrifice. Basically, that's all it is. It's all about sacrificing what it does. It's shattering the ego. It's shattering the ego and also is building a sense of community and you're breaking nights. You're breaking nights. It's shattering the ego and also is building a sense of community. Yes, you know, you're breaking nights.

Speaker 2 42:45

You're breaking nights. You're breaking nights.

Modern Challenges for Garifuna Culture

Speaker 1 42:48

I think I'll be a bad member, cause I'd like to take them to that river.

Speaker 2 42:54

Good luck on that. Good luck on that.

Speaker 1 42:57

I respect it, though I respect it. So what challenges does Garofino spirituality face in the modern world?

Speaker 2 43:08

whew, from what I've seen, um, not a lot of our people talk about gutting from the spirit, spirituality not a lot. If we do talk about it, it's out of fear or threatening people. Unfortunately, that's what I see. Yeah, that's what I see. Now, because we have technology, um, we want to videotape it, you know.

Speaker 1 43:37

Yeah, that's something across the board. Don't get it Across the diaspora. I think it's the younger generation and some elders as well. They're pretty foolish with their spiritual practice. They're online and you know, I don't know if they're joking or not, but they just be talking that I'm going to do this and that to you, and you know um.

Speaker 2 43:58

It's unfortunate, though, is the way of thinking where I think our youth. They're very scared of gutting from spirituality, like they don't know what to expect because they just heard always negative about it. And me, because I'm, I'm on TikTok and whatnot, I tend to like look, you don't have to be afraid of this, this is what you have to do, don't worry about it, everything is fine. This is. You're going to get messages. You know. If you do it wrong, you're going to get corrected. You know, when it comes to a lot of stuff. So I tend to let them unlearn the effery, because what they learned was fear, don't go there. I don't believe in that. It's demonic. Is this? Is that? It's not?

Speaker 1 44:54

it's not I always say that I tell people to immerse themselves, and the only reason when I said that you know they get fearful is because they may see one person from that particular community talking crazy online right behavior, unfavorable, undesirable behavior, and they assume would all operate like that.

Speaker 2 45:09

So correct and this is why most of our youth don't want to go to these ceremonies, and I feel like if most of these, most of these youth go to these ceremonies, they will have a different thinking mindset so I have questions for you.

Speaker 1 45:26

How long have you been practicing this for?

Speaker 2 45:31

let me see, uh, when you say practice.

Speaker 1 45:35

The spiritual side of it you learn. You're exposed to the Garafina culture from your household, from young right.

Speaker 2 45:46

Okay, not really.

Speaker 1 45:48

Not really.

Speaker 2 45:50

So my grandmother was Jehovah's Witness. We didn't do any, we didn't celebrate nothing. My mom would celebrate.

Speaker 1 46:00

I was listen, I wasn't there. I left at 14. Listen. My mom had me in there too. From ages 8 to 14 and. I was at the Kingdom Hall if any of them see this video that remember me at 14 I got up, I gave a testimony and I told them the sacred three letters, smd, and I was kicked out, but anyway but because I find it very.

Speaker 1 46:25

There was a lot of craziness taking place in there that I couldn't fathom. And, lo and behold, nobody played with me. Let's get it clear Mikey Feather did not get tickled in there at all because somebody would have DIE'd, but that didn't happen. But I was seeing funny style stuff taking place. You know what I'm saying. I couldn't fathom that and my thirst for knowledge from what my father instilled for me was always made me rebellious, because I felt like you can't confine God into a bubble. You know what I'm saying. God is everywhere. God is your word, god is the air, the rock. You see Everything you see. The next person you see is a God in them, he or she you understand. So you can't. You can't contain God. It's impossible to contain God. You understand A concept of God, even if you're saying the correct name term, god. You just can't contain the higher power.

Speaker 2 47:29

Right. You feel it.

Speaker 1 47:32

So I'm with you. So let's get back to that. What's your experience as a JW?

Speaker 2 47:37

Yeah, horrible. We couldn't celebrate anything. So after my parents passed away, my grandmother took over and she made sure we go to these meetings. I couldn't celebrate no parties or nothing. Meetings. I couldn't have no, celebrate, no parties or nothing. But before my parents passed away I celebrated every holiday that you can think about as a child. So that was shattered. And here goes my grandmother with Jehovah's Witness and she passed away. So I started experiencing feeling stuff at a young age that's how it starts feeling and it was just like ew, like who?

Speaker 2 48:23

what is this? And even if I wanted to ask somebody, they would have just said oh, you need therapy, you're going crazy. So I kept my mouth shut. I suppressed, suppressed myself. I would mm-mm. I'm not saying anything. So I went through that and I didn't know what it was. And so I got. They took me to a Santera. She was Puerto Rican and she read me and I'm like how you know that? And I said how you know that? And she was like there's these people here, there's people here and I see this and I see that, and you're not letting them go. And I'm like how am I not letting them go? When you think about them all the time, I'm like what the heck is going on, why you know this. So that's when everything started opening. It's like, you know, alice in wonderland what age was?

Speaker 2 49:19

this 11 12. Yeah, around there around 11 12.

Speaker 1 49:27

Um, I couldn't talk to anybody, but in your dream um seeing things in the corner of your eyes, but I'm going to take it to a something In your dreams, very vivid, seeing things in the corner of your eyes, black shadows.

Speaker 2 49:42

I couldn't sleep at night.

Personal Spiritual Experiences

Speaker 1 49:44

Yeah, people come up to you talking to you, I don't know where, for no reason, like, who are you? No, I'm telling listen because I. You know my mom. She was always into this stuff, but I don't know why. I think because my older sister always swayed towards more organized stuff. My mom would try to follow that. Like I want them to be. You know, I don't want them immersed in that, but my father used to be the one like no, so that's where they would have their conflict at. You know my father's like I don't want them to be religious, I just want them to be free to know what the world is. My mom was more like yeah, I like this stuff, but I just want to keep them away from it. But then, as I got older, when things start happening, I understand why.

Speaker 1 50:30

Because you know, sometimes parents do certain things and they don't think that it will be revealed to the child and I'm like, uh huh, that's why you was hiding from me. You kept this from me right. Started at three for me and the next time again was ten and you know the same thing. I think my son is not. You know, something's wrong with him. And then you know I'm going to keep it real. I'm'm gonna be very uncandid on this platform please do be free of course, of course. I'm free. I have nothing to hide. I don't care who listen you judge your mother but anyway um

Speaker 1 51:07

straight up. Um, I, I went through the whole process, you know, trying to take me to see people and all that. My mom mom tried to get me tested. They're like nothing's wrong with him, just like a little behavior or stuff. He's just hyper. But you know there's nothing wrong with him. So she finally decided to go see somebody and they said, yeah, he's they trying to communicate with him and by you trying to put them in religion, it's not going to work, he's not going to stay. This is why I'm just so rebellious in nature.

Speaker 2 51:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1 51:39

You can tell me don't do that, You're going to get hurt. I'm running towards the danger. I'm running towards it Like, oh, they shooting over there. Yeah, let me run over there See what happens.

Speaker 2 51:47

I want to see what's going on.

Speaker 1 51:48

Yes, yeah, like very death-defying Now, death defying and I, that's something. Now that I'm I'm 41, I gotta be careful, I gotta slow down, like you know what. Let me just slow down with that, but it's still in me. But I understand what you're saying, because I went through that process and things was just happening. I couldn't explain it, so I sat down with my late uncle.

Speaker 1 52:08

May he rest in peace and he's telling me certain things I was like why only me? My mother has four children. Why is why only me? My mother has four children. Why is it only me that's dealing with this stuff?

Speaker 2 52:20

Oh gosh.

Speaker 1 52:22

You know. So that's another show, that's another topic. For those who want to know more, I'll let them, I'll give them more, you know, walk into Mikey's story, go ahead.

Speaker 2 52:33

Yeah, I'm not sure if I'm the only one out of my siblings, because there's five of us and I'm straight down the middle, but I'm not sure I know. My brother had an experience. He had called me crying. He goes yo. I saw calm down and you're going speak to me calmly, and he was crying. He was like I'm not supposed to be drinking. I'm not supposed to. I'm like you don't even drink. What made you want to drink stuff like that?

Speaker 2 53:10

or cigar you like, I need a cigar yes, because I don't, because my brother does not like liquor, does not like liquor at all, but that day he had drunk um hennessy and I think he indulged in it and the fact that he was drinking like water. It came to the point where he just saw people. He happened to see my mom are you here?

Speaker 1 53:33

you see us talking this for those who are going to watch, listen to this show. Those who are not exposed to this type of culture or understanding or practice will assume that, oh, this is fairytale make-believe.

Speaker 2 53:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1 53:49

Do some research.

Speaker 2 53:51

This is real stuff, this is real stuff.

Speaker 1 53:53

I'll take you to a ceremony if ever. If anyone ever wanted real stuff, I'll take you to a ceremony if ever anyone ever wanted to go, you'll see some things that you can't fathom with the human mind, that the human body can actually do. You'll see people swallow raisins.

Speaker 2 54:03

Oh my gosh, I've seen a little girl. Yep, I've seen a little girl with my own beautiful eyes. I was at a ceremony, at the Goof she drank eight bottles of beer and I said it was like it's not her, it's not her, it's her grandmother. That's in her. She's been thirsty and nobody put a bottle of beer for her. She's thirsty and I'm like that's when I got to answer. You know, got to understand about that, even the spirituality and all this stuff. That's what I saw to. You know, got to understand about that, even the spirituality and all this stuff. That's what I saw.

Speaker 1 54:39

This is real I don't care what anybody say. Oh man, you know what. That's for another show where we could go deep. No problem, we got it because there's a lot to unpack. And for this question right here the last one how are spiritual gifts identified in individuals?

Speaker 2 54:59

It depends on the individual. Some come, everybody's different. I look at spirituality and I think one of the boys had explained to me that when you look at spirituality, look at it as a hospital. There's, each doctor has their specialty, and that's how spirituality is like. There's there's a doctor for eyes, for the nose, for the mouth, for the stomach, for the breasts, for the back. You have those people there and that's how God, even a spiritual, that's how spirituality is in general, and if we can all work together in this hospital without no problem and you stay in your position, we're good to go things will.

Speaker 1 55:42

You can move mountains like that with unity. Yes, that is so beautiful, man, just like. This is my like first time ever hearing about the garaf. Like I followed you, but I'm like yo. There's something about this culture that's beautiful, Because I see like little snippets here and there of you know the breaking of the herbs Like for like baths and healing and stuff like that. I'm like this is so beautiful. It's the same thing across the diaspora and business communities, but we seem to become.

Speaker 1 56:16

we're divided because we see it as like I'm from this nation, you're from that nation, I speak this language, you speak that language, but it's the same story.

Speaker 2 56:24

You know what I think divides us. I heard it somewhere, but I'm repeating it because I feel like it's true. I'm going to tell you what my grandmother told me the thing that's dividing us is these flags.

Speaker 1 56:38

Exactly.

Speaker 2 56:39

I'm going to just put it out there the things we're separated by water. We're all the same people. Well, that's what my grandmother said the only thing that's separating us is the bodies of water. What's separating us is the flags. What's keeping us separated is bodies of water. What's separating us is the flags.

Speaker 1 56:57

What's keeping us separate is bodies of water, period and religion.

Speaker 2 57:00

And religion.

Speaker 1 57:03

I'm not bashing. I might be speaking in this podcast. I am not bashing religion. I'm not here to do that, because I'm not going to impinge or infringe upon nobody's freedom to do what they want to do. Do believe what they want to believe your theology whatsoever but don't infringe upon other people because you don't have understanding and you could be Muslim, catholic. Whatever the case may be, I'm going to respect you and see you first as a human being, not your religion.

Speaker 1 57:32

So exactly let's put that aside and I want to say, martine, it was a pleasure, my sister, the pleasure you finally did it. We got to have you come. You got to come back to get more into the spiritual side and again, with respect, with nothing that's going to, you know, violate the conditions.

Speaker 2 57:54

Yeah.

Closing Thoughts on Cultural Unity

Speaker 1 57:54

I don't want to. I don't want to go in depth with this and then just the basics, you know and to give us more enlightenment, more education about the Garifuna people cool to our listeners, don't forget to comment, like, share, subscribe, super chat. And before we get out of here, where can the people find you?

Speaker 2 58:18

TikTok and Instagram. Yeah, as Garifuna Warriors.

Speaker 1 58:23

Garifuna Warriors. You hear that my people. This is NYP Mikey Fever. I appreciate you guys for coming out To the haters. You take this with you and we're out All right oh gosh First To the haters.

Speaker 2 58:36

you take this with you and we're out All right Peace, oh gosh Pervs.