How the Moorish Science Temple Functions- Cozmo El

The mysterious traditions of the Moorish Science Temple often appear impenetrable to outsiders, but National Grand Sheik Cozmo El offers rare clarity in this illuminating conversation. With decades of experience, he expertly navigates the complex organizational structure that binds together various Moorish temples while allowing each to maintain their distinct customs.

At the heart of the discussion lies the United Moorish Science Temple of America's non-sectarian approach—a deliberate strategy to overcome the divisions that have historically plagued Moorish communities. Rather than enforcing rigid uniformity, this body embraces unity through shared principles while respecting each temple's right to establish specific practices. "We walk a middle path," explains Cozmo El, "standing firm where needed but never being petty about differences that shouldn't divide us."

The conversation reveals fascinating details about Moorish symbolism, particularly regarding their distinctive headwear. The fez, with its various colors—red for righteousness, black for justice, green for growth, and purple for magistrate status—carries profound meaning. Even its tassel represents both the "umbilical cord to the universe" and the sun's rays with 144 strands symbolizing united Asiatics. For those seeking deeper understanding, Cozmo El has authored "Secrets of the Fez," exploring these ancient traditions.

Perhaps most valuable is the practical information about Moorish temple operations. Annual conventions serve as legislative sessions where policies are established for the coming year. New temples begin as study groups with at least seven dedicated members before earning official recognition. The Mufti training program develops security specialists through disciplined protocols that protect the community while fostering personal growth.

Throughout the discussion, Cozmo El emphasizes pragmatic nation-building over theological differences. The United Moorish Science Temple focuses on land acquisition, education initiatives, elder care, and community service—tangible expressions of sovereignty that transcend philosophical debates. This balanced approach demonstrates how ancient traditions can remain relevant by addressing contemporar

Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing the National Grand Sheik
• 12:31 United Moorish Science Temple Explained
• 17:57 Temple Conventions and Regional Meetings
• 28:04 Symbolism of the Fez and Turbans
• 39:12 Mufti Training and Responsibilities
• 49:30 Path to Leadership and Temple Establishment
• 59:42 Closing Thoughts and Future Topics

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:11

what's going on. Everybody out there is ron brown, lmt, the people's fitness professional, uh, soul brother number one, reporting for duty, and this is a new yorker's perspective. I think I said that already. Um, and we got the, the national grand sheik, cosmo l, in the building united moorish science temple of america. Uh, be be sure to like, comment, share, subscribe, super chat. I said it on the last podcast, I'm gonna say it on every single podcast, just to get it, just so it gets through.

Speaker 1: 0:44

This is a media outlet, right? So we're building this podcast to then eventually become a media company. Well, we are a media company. Nyp is a media company for our people. We created this to create more of a balance in the internet space, because we notice there's not much of a balance, there's a lot of buffoonery out there. So we're coming with the balance. So that's the whole purpose of it.

Speaker 1: 1:16

Help us build, send us Super Chat. Also, we have NYP Talk Show Cash App. Nyp Talk Show Cash App, super Chat. Nyp Talk Show Cash App. Nyp Talk Show Cash App, super Chat. Nyp Talk Show Cash App, cash App. Anyway, thank you, angelo. Okay, peace, angelo Joseph. I really appreciate you. See, brothers and sisters, I really didn't understand this game, this media thing. I was like you know what, maybe they'll just, you know, notice what we're doing and send us some money. You don't have to ask, no, you gotta, you gotta tell people. All right, thank you, brother angela. Angelo, joseph, national grand chic in a building before we go into it. Oh, who's that? We got a special guest today. His name is mikey fever this guy's terrible.

Speaker 2: 2:10

Peace, peace, peace to the fans and listeners. Man, you've been busy, busy listen. Outside of this, we have jobs full-time.

Speaker 1: 2:22

full-time. They are demanding Yep and children.

Speaker 3: 2:27

Yes.

Speaker 1: 2:28

So so national, before we go into it. United Moorish National. United Moorish Science Temple of America. What is that? What is that exactly?

Speaker 3: 2:41

Islam. So United Moorish Science Temple of America is a collection of non-sectarian temples. If they go to, or if you go to ProphetNoahJualiorg, you'll see the various temples involved in that project and it pretty much represents the grand body that I represent. When I say national grand she Chic, some people tend to think that that means over all the temples, and that's not the case. There are various grand bodies, and so we function with the United Moorish Science Temple of America and, again, all our bios are up there, all our national officers, and so that's what that is.

Speaker 3: 3:23

And for those that want to say well, where did you get United from? You know why not just Morish Science Temple of America, as you were stating earlier, there's a lot of buffoonery, there's a lot of disrespect, a lot of disunity, and so in the Holy Quran, chapter 47, holy Instruction 12, it speaks of Nobu Juali being the founder of the uniting of the Moorish Science Temple of America, meaning that in his foresight he saw that there needed to be a uniting of the temples. And so we draw our program from that key. And you know, irrespective of what anyone else is doing, we're now sectarian. We work with all temples, all bodies and, uh, in the spirit of unity, which is pretty much universally agreed upon in the movement today that we need unity yes, sir, yes, sir, okay, so, um, I want to go, we're gonna, we're gonna.

Speaker 1: 4:24

I said it'll be best to just finish off right here with the functions of the temple, because I think we did two already, so the third one. I think that'll clear it all up and then we can move on to other subjects. So now you know, you explained how the temples function. They're different. All temples are not the same. There's a grand body I want to talk about what happens in, I think this month Is it this month right In Chicago and right now, off the top of my head. I just forgot. But what is it called? It's like a national meeting Convention, the convention. So's like a national meeting convention, the convention. So you know, during this convention, this is like, from what I understand, only certain people are allowed to go to this convention Sheiks. So what is the purpose of this convention and why only sheiks are allowed?

Speaker 3: 5:28

purpose of this convention and why only sheiks are allowed. Yeah, so you have uh again, because there are different bodies. Uh, you have different times of convention. You have some in september, you have some in november and you even have some in december. Um, and the khal, we have ours in November.

Speaker 3: 5:44

It's not to replace the Chicago convention, but there's more of a statewide convention. However, it has seemed to in recent days, merge with the uniting movement, so you have representation from other states as well in that same spirit. But the convention is a meeting where various meetings and various conferences take place. It's a show of unity, it's a migration, so to speak, to Chicago. There's also, again, other conventions in other regions, and what it is is when the sheiks get together. Grand Sheiks, sheiks and other officers come together and create policy and make law for the year going forth, which is going to affect all those under that body. And then there are also the ADAPT chambers, open for those who wish to go through the ADAPT Chamber which we talked about on previous show, and there's also celebrations of the legacy of the prophets. So it's going to look different, different years. It's going to look being created and enforced and that's going to affect going forward the whole year, everyone that's under those particular bodies.

Speaker 1: 7:13

OK, so we're in. We're in November, and why November For Khalifa?

Speaker 3: 7:21

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:21

Khalifa yeah.

Speaker 3: 7:23

Well, you know, to be honest, the whole Khalifa Council came as a result of realizing that at the time that we formed it, you know, which is a different time than it is now, there was a lot less unity and there was a lot more going back and forth and bickering over who was who and what was what, a lot more division. And around that time you had players that came from Chicago into California and helped establish temples and things of that nature. And as we began to work with those temples over a period of time, divisions end up coming, and I don't want to rehash things but over finances and other things, how stuff was going. And so there was just so much tension that California decided well, look, we have our sheiks, we have our adepts that have been going to convention for years on end. Sheiks, we have our adepts that have been going to convention for years on end. Why don't we?

Speaker 3: 8:32

Since, nationally, you know, the Supreme Grand Council had broken up and it was like who's in leadership now, what do we do? And we realized that if this much disarray could come about by one council the Supreme Council, supreme Grand Council, breaking up then what we needed to do was more solidify our local and our state temples so that if there was conflict and there was chaos nationally, that statewide we would still be able to function. If a federal or national government falls, then the states shouldn't crumble, and that's what was happening. So we solidified, firmed up California. November was chosen because it was neither October or September. We didn't want to give the impression that we were trying to compete with anybody. Many of our people still go to Chicago for those conventions. It was just a statewide convention to offer those things that are offered in Mecca, in Chicago, to our people on the ground in California and also to distance ourselves from a lot of the folly that was happening nationwide.

Speaker 2: 9:44

Makes perfect sense.

Speaker 1: 9:47

Perfect sense. Okay, so Khalifa, california, california, november. Uh, and you said, um, you have brothers and sisters from the Khalifa demonstration going to the convention in September, and September as well, and October and even December.

Speaker 3: 10:10

You know, for those that have a thing is we're non sectarian, so that's the beauty of it. Like you can be a part of your temple, you can demonstrate those whatever they're demonstrating, and we're not going to be like, oh you should go on this month, or oh, you should go on this month, demonstrate whatever you demonstrate. But when we come together as a council uh, like the brother was talking about earlier on your show, previous Federation, so to speak we use the term council. It enables us to not be divided by our individual customs and traditions and the age old argument of who's right and who's wrong, because there are pressing needs. You know who's right and who's wrong. On convention, time isn't going to ensure that our people have land, have food, clothing, shelter, schools and the things that are necessary for nations to have to be functioning nations as opposed to just being the people, which is the definition of nation as well but to actually be self-governing and to be independent, you have to have all of those things in place so you don't have to depend on anybody else for it. I mean, it's really just one, two, three common sense. So we decided to focus on business, we decided to focus on education. We decided to focus on land and do it collectively. We decided also to focus on homes for our elderly and charity, feeding the people. And we're doing all of this. And so each region is doing its thing. But when we come together in November and each region start enumerating and giving the report for what they're doing, boy, it's nationhood business. Because you get to see everybody oh, you're doing this, you're doing it so collectively as a nation we're fulfilling all of those necessities. But it is about growth and development and getting to the point where we can import and export the successes that we have to whatever region needs them. But if the region doesn't need that program, it's no need to try to force that program, you know. So it's really about working together and in unity. It's really about working together and in unity.

Speaker 3: 12:37

Right now we have a temple in New York, arizona, california, in California, Los Angeles, oakland, here in Hawaii, hagerstown, maryland, and again I mentioned last time through the newspaper, we work with the Morris and Syracuse Grand Governor, joseph Young Bay and his beautiful wife Young Bay and other Moors. You know Governor Howard Bay, and you'll see also that I toured Moorish Science Temple of America Inc. Temple with brother, assistant Grand Sheik, national Assistant Grand Sheik of the A Hopkins Bay. So we're kind of an anomaly because of the relationships that we've established in being able to hey, you know, connect with temples on what we can connect on and leave them to the customs and traditions that they're able to establish.

Speaker 3: 13:27

Based on Chapter 47, key 14, creating your own laws and customs and Act 1, the Grand Sheik is empowered and chairman empowered to make law and enforce law. So it doesn't make sense for us to try to go enforce law on another temple when they have the power to create and enforce law on another temple. When they have the power to create an enforced law, it doesn't make any sense for us to browbeat somebody about their customs when they have a right to create their own customs and usages, as long as it's in conjunction and can be traced back to what the prophet was doing, you know. So that's pretty much how we move. And again, prophetnoblejewaleeorg, that's pretty much how we move. And again, prophetnoblejewaleeorg, all of our bios are there, the creation inception of each temple and each officer is there.

Speaker 1: 14:19

Everyone has history that goes back. You know, some of us go back 30 years, some of us go back three or four, you know. Okay, so now, oh man, I lost my train of thought. This is like really important part of me. Let's say let's go with this Mike. Let's say Mike wants to join your temple in New York or under your lineage Jurisdiction.

Speaker 3: 14:50

Where would he join? So if he wanted to join the temple in New York and say, if, if me and him were building, or if he went to a prophet, noble, jew Aliorg, and said, hey, I want to, uh, I like what you all are doing, I want to get with what you all are doing, then we will see who's closest to him, where he's at, and then we will send him to that temple. If so, if he was in New York, he would go to the New York temple. The information is up on the site. It's in Queens, jamaica, queens.

Speaker 3: 15:18

However, sometimes we find ourselves where we don't have a temple that is so close. So then we give people the option say, hey, you can either attend one of our Zoom temples or we can link you up with the temple that we recommend that's in your area, that's closest to you. And the reason we do it that way is because we don't recommend all temples. Not all temples are the same. Some temples are, are you? Some temples do have their issues. We've recommended temples before and people have come back and then the blowback is on us. So we only recommend to people that we have relationships with, but they don't have to necessarily just be in our body in order to do that order to do that. Say, for example, there's a body in California Temple 80 in Los Angeles and they're under Keno Bay's. That's their supreme grass sheep and I send people to them all the time if it fits with them and they're in that region, as opposed to being so hungry for members to try to pull everybody where we're at and it just doesn't work logistically.

Speaker 2: 16:29

I have a question why would there be issues if people don't agree with what you're doing? Because it sounds like you guys are doing a lot of community work and a lot of upliftment, like you're just not up there speaking all nice and I don't know if you do. No, it's true. Like are you? Are you dealing within your cipher, as they put it? Are you dealing within the law context or the spiritual, the religious aspect of more science?

Speaker 3: 16:54

yeah, well. Well, it's all. It's all a spiritual battle. You know it's all about, uh, uh. You know wickedness and high and low places, so, and they manifest in the form of people, some, some people. You know a lot of the people that hate. I don't even know personally. Is it somebody that feels jilted, based on the past or something? Maybe you know they. They weren't upright or whatever, and we cast them from our midst and they couldn't handle that and so now they're a hater and they're going to go around and spread hate with everyone else.

Speaker 3: 17:31

There are some temples that have history, have known to be involved in an illegal activity, and you know it's just like a family. You know the good uncles, you know the bad uncles, you know. You know the good aunties, you know the good aunties that you don't want to leave your children with. However, the sheep know the sound of their shepherd's voice, so some people is fine with them and they can, and that's what they do. So, again, because some of us go back about 30 years and we know some of these, these histories, some people you know there's a lot.

Speaker 3: 18:09

There's generational curses where, if you're not with this body, some person's way of recruiting is downing all the other bodies in order to get them into their temple. And so you know, there's those things. But again, that's why we decided to roll with the uniting of the Moran Science Temple of America to end those generational curses and say, hey look, you don't, we don't, we're not hungry for your membership like that. If you like what we're doing, you can rock with us. But if you're from another temple, you got to get permission from your grand sheik, you know, across the board, because we don't want to cause confusion and chaos across temple lines.

Speaker 3: 18:50

If you're not with the temple, then you're more free to go ahead and join and if, for some reason, you don't fit where we're at, we do have temples that we work with that aren't under the jurisdiction but we work with in unity, that we can help send them to as well. So I don't I don't want to go into specifics and I know you don't want me to go into the specifics of why because that again creates the bad blood. I've done that in the past and and have regretted that, you know, because it makes it look like we're into that and we're not. So we just, we just let it be known. You know, buyer, beware, uh, and and make sure you research what what you're getting into indeed.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Now I want to ask this was what. This was the question I wanted to ask. So move the MIT right. Mit, mm-hmm. Divine minister, are they two separate paths or is it just one path? How's that go to get into the adept chamber, uh-huh?

Speaker 3: 20:02

so a Mufti could be a divine minister. A divine minister could be a Mufti. It's just more of knowing the member and knowing what their abilities are and what they're seeking. You know, some people may not even be seeking divine minister, but you'd be like man, I see a divine minister in you. You know why don't you check out this curriculum and see what it's about? Some people may come in. They already have a background in security. That's obviously. They're going to make a natural chief move T. They just need to learn our customs and usages on how to do it.

Speaker 3: 20:43

The adept chamber is general. You know you have to understand that there's a difference between sheiks. Sheiks are a trustee like position, but then officers they have an office that's administrative, and then adepts are are their own thing as well. That means they're adept in the knowledge. So you could be an adept and not a sheik. You could be a sheik but not an officer.

Speaker 3: 21:13

So it just depends on the path that one wants to take and if they also listen to the advice of what someone in leadership sees in them. So there's a grooming, but it's based on the natural talents of the person. Like pretty much in any demonstration, you don't want to be putting apples over here with oranges and oranges with apples. You observe, you see the dedication, you see the faithfulness, you see the ability to articulate in one, you see the ability for one to be observant and to give reports, and you can know who's going to be your divine minister, who's going to be your mufti. When I came up, you know everybody was considered a mufti, de facto, so to speak, because everybody, the prophet, called on all members to protect the temple and to protect the prophet. So everyone, in that general sense, is responsible for that. But you know of, of course, in an official capacity as an officer, then you know that there is going to be some training there okay, now.

Speaker 1: 22:17

Now, what's the difference between the, the uh, first off, the color of the fez. Okay, you have the burgundy and then you have, you have the red, the flaming red fez, and then you have the black fez. What are the differences?

Speaker 3: 22:39

Well, I'll tell you the difference between the red and black fez in general. Right, because there's really not too much of a difference between the red and the maroon. Other than custom. Some trace the red fez back to Noble Juweli, because he appeared in Chicago with the flaming red fez. So some say, hey, it should be flaming red and not maroon. But custom-wise, moors have worn red and maroon. So that's another one of those things we don't let divide us, right? That's a thing of preference and it's a thing of availability.

Speaker 3: 23:24

For a while you couldn't really get flaming red Fezzes and the Freemasons had the monopoly on the the fez industry because Moors weren't making them. I myself took it upon myself to learn how to make fezes and I started making fezes for Moors. I created a company, khalifa Fez Co, and I sold fezes for years, handmade. They were made with the materials that I had used to and had access to, and they weren't exactly like the fez that came from the Masons. That's why we call them a Khalifa fez. But many satisfied customers. I just got to the point where it was too big. I couldn't continue making them and I didn't want to begin to make inferior product, you know. So I put it on hold.

Speaker 3: 24:07

So, to answer your question, the black fez is usually the fez that you're going to see, that's worn by the mufti right. The muftis are the sergeant at arms, so to speak, lawgivers, governors, and that represents firmness, represents firmness, constancy, master of passions, justice and desires. You know, these are the lessons that I was given decades ago when I was in preparation. And then the red fez represents righteousness and consciousness, and so the fez circle around the head represents finite knowledge and the fez circle around the head represents finite knowledge, and the fed circle around the head represents infinite wisdom. The red feds are going to be more your ministers, your teachers, your ills. A lot of time and many times the bays, the governors, the law enforcers are going to wear the black feds. And so that's the basics of of what that is, and again, it's all determined, based on character, ok, and natural ability.

Speaker 2: 25:22

I have a question about turbans. I see some of them wear tending to wear turbans.

Speaker 3: 25:28

Is that Turbans are also a tradition. You'll see Prophet Noah wearing a turban as well with the feather. Each color has its meaning, for example, white. White means purity. Purity means God. God means ruler of the land. Red is still going to be righteousness and consciousness. It also represents the cherry tree or the Moorish flag as well. The original flag didn't have a star, you know that was placed on later and so that fez is related to the cherry tree. There are some other symbolisms that have it related to the woman as well, and you could probably put that together, you know yourself. Green represents growth and is often worn by sheiks.

Speaker 3: 26:23

Purple, which you'll see, is the magistrate or lawgivers, and you'll see that in the Circle 7, holy Quran of the Morishan Temple of America, in chapter magistrate and subject, it speaks of O thou, who are clothed in purple and referring to the magistrate. So you know those are basics. There's layers of meaning. You know you can go deeper into these, but these are just the basics. On the colors and pretty much the rank, there is a rank attached to it, if one knows this.

Speaker 3: 27:03

Sometimes you have people gleaning things from online. They don't know because they haven't been in a temple, they don't know the customs, they don't know the traditions, and so they might be wearing something that they may not know what it means. You ask them hey, you know about this and they won't know. So you really have to talk to people that are in the temple and have studied to actually know what it's about. Believe me, there's a lot of people out there right now that are more conscious and they're gleaning what they can from online, but a lot of things they just don't know.

Speaker 3: 27:35

I saw a video the other day of a guy trying to tear me down or whatever, and he didn't even know that Prophet Noah established the body politics. So you know, just make sure again, buyer, beware who you're talking to and don't take my word for things You'll notice. I give references. You know. Take those references and look them up so you can see I'm on point. That's, that's our tradition not to just say stuff and don't have any reference. It has to be traced back to our customs and traced back to the prophet, the Koran, etc.

Speaker 1: 28:08

to our customs and traced back to the Prophet, the Quran, etc. Indeed. Now I want to ask about I have a few questions now the tassel. Should it be on the left side of the fez, or should it be on the right side of the fez? Or should it be? How should the tassel be?

Speaker 3: 28:25

Well, you're asking all the questions today Islam. So again this goes to custom. Traditionally it flows free, so the tassel can go. You know, 360, because it represents 360 degrees of knowledge. Some people have a custom of tying it to the right side as opposed to the left side. And why is that? Because to differentiate themselves from the Freemasons who tie their tassel down to the left side, so some more as a hey, you know, we're going to do ours to the right. It can get a little cumbersome in your face and stuff like this, and when you move in, you know blowing and all of that, but traditionally it's a 360.

Speaker 3: 29:18

However, I do understand why one may have it to the right side to differentiate between those who tie it down to the left side. In essence saying we're revealers, not concealers. You know it's about understanding each other's customs as opposed to tearing each other's customs down, because something like that is shouldn't be something that divides us from getting to the greater work. So we try to. We try to walk a middle path. We can't do it all the time and we'll stand firm on what we need to stand firm on, but we definitely not petty about it and it the the tassel represents the umbilical cord as well to the universe islam.

Speaker 3: 29:53

so, again, there's layers of meaning, uh to this um, the tassel being connected to the umbilical cord, and the 12 circles on top of the fez represent universal law. Again, like I told you, red also have something to do with the woman and the bloodline. So there's a, as a matter of fact, on my, on my YouTube, I have a couple of videos up there that go into the meaning of the Fez, and I also have a book on Amazon, the Secrets of the Fez, by Cosmo Ill, that goes into it a little further for those that are interested in that at amazoncom. So, again, even the fact that you know these strands represent the rays of the sun, but traditionally there's 144 of them, and so it also represents the coming together of 144,000, uniting up Asiatics and angels.

Speaker 3: 30:53

So there's a lot of symbolism that is connected to our national headdress, as it should be, and we could definitely go on talking for hours about it and unfolding its symbolism, even its origin, you know, and the types of fezzes that they have around the world. This isn't the most ancient style fez that there is, even this tassel being related to the prince's lock in ancient Egypt, where you'll see the lock on the side of the head and it's shaped exactly like the fez. This uh goes back and again. We could unfold it and unfold it. But for those who want more knowledge, secrets of the fez, they could get that book all right, that's peace now.

Speaker 1: 31:44

Uh. Five on the left. Two on the right right. Yes, well, how do you say it Right? Two on the right. I said it right.

Speaker 3: 31:51

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 31:53

Now.

Speaker 3: 31:54

Wait a minute. No, five on the right, two on the left. No wait, Five on the left, two on the right. You got it. Yeah, I got it right.

Speaker 1: 32:01

Yeah, so why the angle? The angle of your arms is it supposed to be 90 degrees, like perfectly? And does your hand have to be shaped like this and your finger like this right, 90 degrees, perfect angles, facing the east, your heels together in that position. Is that custom?

Speaker 3: 32:36

islam? Uh, again, that's going to vary. What's universal is? You are rising high on the seventh. Some rise on the seven, some rise high on the seven, some take it up like this even further. You know it depends on the seven. Some rise high on the seven, some take it up like this even further. You know it depends on the custom.

Speaker 3: 32:53

I will point out that when you have them at the 90 degree angles like this, then you're dealing with the, the. I believe it's the Ka symbol. In ancient Egypt. You'll see the Ka symbol like this. So some may be, you know, moving in that science. Then you have some that bring it right here to up to the head, and then you have those that you know extreme with it. They bring it up.

Speaker 3: 33:19

So the main thing is that you're rising high on the seven, five on the left, two on the right, representing it's best to have them together, obviously, because you don't want to, you know, have them divided. But you know, again, we're not going to be petty Five on the left, two on the right, that represent the seven ether planes and the seven creative spirits, the Elohim, and you know five that fell to the earthly realm and the physical plane, and and the two that held firm because they were ever strong, you know. So that's going to be universal, as uh as as long as we just rising high on the seven. But how ones do it is going to vary, okay. Okay, if you ask me how I do it, I do it.

Speaker 3: 34:05

I. I raise it up at the 90 degree angle. You know, the mathematics is perfection, right? So 90 degrees represent 90 degrees perpendicular to the earth, right, independent and fearless. So so that's how I demonstrate it. But again, I don't sweat anybody if they, if they're not, if they ask me why I'm doing it that way, I'll let them know. If they think it's cool, they want to adopt that custom, they're more than welcome to it.

Speaker 1: 34:28

That way, I'll let them know if they think it's cool, they want to adopt that custom, they're more than welcome to it. Gotcha, okay, now, um as far as the um. So one thing that stands out a lot when people complain complain about the temples is the, the, the singing, right. So it's like, oh, it's like we just go in to church. Man, I could have stayed in the church if I wanted that, you know, but from the way I see it is, the singing and the songs are important. It's the motivation, it's the vibration and you know it keeps people, you know, calm, you know it keeps people, you know calm, and you know, and I would say it helps with, I would say, meditation, if you will, right. So like an open eye meditation and like just getting in the mood in the zone, so to speak.

Speaker 2: 35:23

It raises the vibration, right, the tonality, it sets the tone, as you said. It keeps you focused, it keeps you locked in on the agenda you know, indeed as.

Speaker 3: 35:35

Long yeah, I mean, we moorish americans, you know, and we have a long-standing tradition of griot, you know, whether it be singing, whether it be poetry, whether it be, you know these are traditions that have been handed down from our ancient forefathers. You know, we did it all through slavery and within those uh songs, every nation has their songs. Every nation has their songs. Why would we be a nation without songs? It clears the ethers before things starts and, like the brother said, sets the tone. So I've seen someone just put vicar, yeah, into the you know the same demonstration as vicar and you dealing with uh, uh, resonant frequency, right, you know, which is very important we all getting on the same frequency. So those songs, like the brother said, are putting us in tune and so that is a tradition. Just because we Moorish Americans don't mean that we leave everything that we were doing and adopt some weird, strange culture. No, a lot of that comes with us, all the positive, and if it's negative and there's some good to it, then we alchemize that as well.

Speaker 3: 37:01

Now, what happens is, when there became divisions within the Moorish Science Temple of America, you had those who specialized in certain things and as they began to develop temples, that's what they focused on.

Speaker 3: 37:17

Some were more of the administrative aspect of the temple.

Speaker 3: 37:21

So when you see their temples, they're going to have a real tight administrative program. Their paperwork's going to be on point and it's going to be running like that. Some left more with the spirituality and the ritual, not to say they don't have an administrative aspect as well, but they left with that ether, and so that's the ether that you're going to get from those temples, and that's why it's good to travel around to the various temples and and see the traditions that they preserve, because you, when you do that now, you get a full picture of what the temple is like. You only get a fraction of a picture of what the temple is like when you isolate yourself from other mores, because some groups are holding on to certain traditions. And there's nothing wrong with the gospel, you know, there's nothing wrong with singing the gospel. Whether it be Vicar, whether it be Nam-ye-ring-ko, whether it be the humming of the Buddhist temple, there's always sound and resonant frequency that's connected with it and that's just. That's just our tradition in the way that we've done it.

Speaker 1: 38:32

Okay, that's peace. So now, um, you know, we spoke about the uh singing and um, now I don't know if you can go into MIT. If you, I don't know how. You know, your demonstration, your temple organization does it, but how is it? How do you? You get requests? No, how can I say this? How do you get, how do you become a part of the MIT, mufti and Training, and then I'll just tell you my experience, right, so someone requested that I become a part of you know, um, mostly in training. So what I did was I went out to New Jersey and, um, you know, a lot of mores were there and, uh, it was just so smooth as far as the teaching, it was like security, right, but it wasn't like the military, like the army, but it was sort of like the army, though, right, but it was like in a smooth way it was done.

Speaker 1: 39:49

I don't want to go into too much detail, but it was like in a smooth way it was done. I don't want to like go into too much detail. Let's just say, for instance, it was hot in the place. We were in Hot, right, we all had suits on.

Speaker 1: 40:10

We had to stand up for a long period of time and listen to and listen. So is that? How is it done in in your demonstration?

Speaker 3: 40:19

it's long uh. So some people use the term mufti, others use warden vestry men, which you'll see on the uh back of the 101s. You know, you, you, you gonna stand a lot being a move. T like you standing is is when I was young. I mean, I might be posting up for like three hours straight while somebody's speaking and I'm just, I'm just standing up there. You know, I'm waiting, I'm thinking it looked like they about to end in five minutes and they go for another 30 minutes and I'm just I'm thinking it looked like they bought the end in five minutes and they go for another 30 minutes.

Speaker 1: 40:55

But I don't mean to cut you. Is that the psychology with?

Speaker 3: 40:58

that Like well. Well, you know it serves two purposes. Number one is the discipline. It's the discipline, you know, if you're going to be a move to, if you're going to be dealing in security, so to speak. So, if you're going to be a Mufti, if you're going to be dealing in security, so to speak which is what it really breaks down to and protecting people, protecting property, protecting the prophet and the temple, you want to be disciplined. You want to be as disciplined as other people that do the same thing, that are disciplined from military background, law enforcement background or martial arts background and are some of the teachers in these things, to make sure that you can secure your people, because we got families, men, women, children.

Speaker 3: 41:47

You see, these days, you know people assassinating people, right, you know, for their beliefs and for what they're saying. It's not nothing new, they've been doing that, and so, yeah, we have to prepare, and so posting up is one of the main aspects of being in a, being a Mufti, as you know. You know you want to be able to defend yourself. You want to be able to. Even more important than all of that is being able to observe and report and recognize what you need to recognize. You know. Again, yeah, I can't go off into to the tree, but what I can tell you is that the standing is definitely a part of it. The standing is definitely a part of it, but it serves a couple of purposes because while you're standing there and you're posting up, you're usually in the most important places. You know and you're getting to hear things that other people are not able to hear. That's shaping your understanding more so than others. That's one of the fringe benefits. Again, I told you earlier when people would come down they would request the Moors. In California I did security for people like Kwame Ture, elaine Brown, erica Huggins, even with Brother Chairman Fred Hampton Jr, even with Brother Chairman Fred Hampton Jr, different delegates from Brazil and Africa and other nations, and I learned a lot doing that. It's a funny funny thing because after I completed my seven lessons and I got my head shaved and got my fez, this was the thing we did. We have in Los Angeles Moore's Day and this is a Los Angeles holiday. The proclamation was signed by Mayor Tom Bradley at the time. This is how long it was. This was, I believe, 1987 is when he signed the proclamation is when he signed the proclamation, and so every year for Moore's Day the Moores would go on the steps of City Hall and would feed the homeless there, because the homeless would gather around the City Hall.

Speaker 3: 43:59

So my first move T post was going and posting up on the steps of City Hall and feeding the poor. And at that time the police came and, you know, was trying to move us along. It was like no, you can't do that. Moors have been doing that for years. But these guys got it in their head. They're going to make the Moors move and do whatever. And I was told I had to stand my post. No matter what the police say, I don't move, I just stand my post, I just stand my post.

Speaker 3: 44:29

Eventually I end up going in with the delegation of some of the higher ups, the grass sheiks and stuff at that time, to go talk to the mayor, and I was posting up outside the mayor's office, you know. And when the Morris came outside the mayor's office that you know, the police were told to leave us alone and let us do our thing. And so I went back out and I happily posted up again. So it's those kinds of experiences that when you are part of the Move T-Force that you get to see more as an action and more as being respected and and having a sense of of manhood. You know that's added to you, so I just wanted to share that, that little piece. It is a very important training, but also the experience being out in the field is also. Learning in the field is very important as well, gotcha.

Speaker 1: 45:21

So now, okay, so once you become a mufti right or a divine minister, how is that path? Well, you already explained. How is it chosen? I would say.

Speaker 3: 45:36

You can request it or be requested.

Speaker 1: 45:39

Okay, okay. Now, once that happens, what's next? Do you get paperwork, do you get more lessons and?

Speaker 3: 45:48

then, yeah, you go through training and you complete your training, you get your certificate and you get your post. And then you, now you hold in the responsibility of that post as a chief, move to assistant chief, move to move tees up under them, you know. So, if one can, oh, go ahead.

Speaker 1: 46:11

And now is this for men and women.

Speaker 3: 46:16

Yes, well, in our tradition, men and women, although there are some limitations on the woman's side of things and there are some limitations on the man's side of things. For example, sometimes we have an event and people may need to be frisked before they come in. It's not all the time, but sometimes that is the case. So a man isn't going to frisk the woman and a woman isn't going to frisk the man. So that's why it's important to have women on the moot teeth force. Excuse me, to deal with the situations that involve women. If you need to ask a woman to leave or something like that, or escort someone off the premises because they're doing something they shouldn't be doing, then you need to have women in those positions. The training is very similar, but not the same, because we have to cater to the character and the creation of each person, the masculine and the feminine. So things are, there's going to obviously be some differences in that training but, yes, both are employed in our tradition. In some temples, the women are not a part of the Mufti force.

Speaker 1: 47:25

OK now. So once you go through the Mufti force, you get your lessons. After you finish that, you get your certificate and things. What is the process? To become like a Grand Sheik, get your own charter and stuff like that? Can you talk about that or no?

Speaker 3: 47:43

Yeah, I mean you know there's a I spoke on it roughly. On the other show that there's a curriculum. There are things that you want to make sure that you know, like the divine constitution and bylaws, nationality card, 101 questions. You know all of the things that you need to be familiar with to teach and deliver the message that goes for a sheik or divine minister. Divine minister also take on other aspects, such as knowing how to minister counseling, things of that nature, and they're taught by those who are adept in these fields, that ones have prerequisite knowledge in these fields, as opposed to just throwing anybody on in any position so that we can say that we have positions filled.

Speaker 3: 48:38

Divine ministers have to deal with families. You know they have to deal with man and wife and issues that may occur. So there's a specialized training. But there's also say, for example, divine ministers need to know how to perform a marriage obligation Right. They need to know the difference between marriage and obligation.

Speaker 3: 49:00

They need to know how to bring the children in the world and what rituals to say during that process and what documents go with that process, go with that process, how to prepare those documents and how to seal those documents so that they can be used to protect our members in society, in the greater society, you know, which goes into the religious identity documents that are necessary to protect members and to claim members into the society so that they don't have to have the same documents that civil society has, which some of those are often in contradiction to our way of life, not all of them, but some of them. But when you're self-governing as a religious society or body politic, then you do have the ability to create certain documents and certify those documents when needed from, say, the civil government.

Speaker 1: 50:04

Okay, okay. So now a study group to study. So, study group creating a study group to eventually create, have your own temple. Is that the path, is that how it goes?

Speaker 3: 50:26

It depends, if it depends on on who you're dealing with. You mentioned charter earlier and there's two ways to have a temple. One is a subordinate temple Well, they're all subordinate temples but one is a subordinate temple without a charter. And then there are branch temples with charters, and there's a difference. Even just lawfully and legally, branch temples are considered a branch. They carry the same liability as the mother temple, whereas subordinate temples have their own. They have their own liability. So, say, for example, subordinate temple that is not a charter temple. If they were to get in some trouble or be doing something, then it wouldn't affect on the branch or the or the branch temple, because they're not a branch. So there are some differences there.

Speaker 3: 51:16

Ones can have charters if they're interested in being a branch temple. That's what the charters are for to to start and create a temple. And this is another thing that that this guy was trying to talk about, that he just obviously, just because he hasn't been a part of the movement, doesn't really understand that all temples have study groups and you start with the study group too, because you just don't slap no temple together. The study group is to make sure that everyone's prepared and within that study group. Once you have at least seven good, good members a part of that study group, they're ready to hold offices and you can see that according to chapter 47, that they know how to open their meetings and that everything is. They know the laws, they know how to govern, they know their fiduciary duty with dues and emergency fund and all of these things. Now you can, in a sense, upgrade them to an official temple where they will carry on official duties in the, in the, in the interim, they're learning, they're in a learning process and so they're not under the same expectations of a legitimate temple.

Speaker 3: 52:27

Once they or an official temple, I should say once they become an official temple, then yeah, there's going to be obviously a lot more scrutiny and you know they would be open to reprimands if things are going wrong or maybe even losing their temple if they're violating the laws, which doesn't occur often, but sometimes it does and of course you have to have that because you can't have temples running around doing any type of thing that's reflecting bad on the overall movement.

Speaker 3: 53:03

A lot of times you'll see out here it's a lot of subgroups that don't have a genealogy to the Morse Science Temple of America at all, but they've jumped up and they started doing something, and you know it's important for the public to know. The difference Doesn't mean that they're bad. They could be doing good right, but there are customs and usages. And I keep saying customs and usages because things, in order for things to be lawful, they have to be done according to the customs and usages, and if they're not, the government knows what the customs and usages are. So if you're not doing it properly, you're not going to get the same result, your stuff isn't going to be accepted and you might even get yourself in a world of trouble.

Speaker 2: 53:52

I got you, so would you consider that to be renegade or like a renegade temple?

Speaker 3: 53:57

I mean, people use a lot of different words. Renegade is one of them, you know, yeah, yeah, it is Like I said, if they don't have a genealogy, this is different. On the second level, Aside from the study group, you may have a group of sheiks that decide hey, you know what we want to form this temple of ours where adapts? You know, I have a charter, so on and so forth. Things may not be going right over here in this situation and they're saying, well, look, you know we can't stay with the dirt, so we need to go do our pure and clean demonstration. And in that case, chapter 47, key 12, they form, under the covenant of love, truth, peace, freedom and justice, in conjunction with the prophet and his temple, the grand, major temple that the prophet founded. And so that's there.

Speaker 3: 54:52

Also for those who already have sheepdom and want to start a temple, and in that case they would need to know what type of lawful paperwork that they would need to file in order to establish that and decide if they want to be a subordinate temple with a charter or without a charter, if they desire a charter or if they don't. So there are a couple of ways to do it, but the wrong way to do it is to just jump up, think, because you're smart, maybe you have a PhD, maybe you don't. You know, and you've been studying the literature which is online out there now and you think that you're ready for it, and you just jump up and do whatever you want to do. Well, the proof will be in the pudding as to what you do. I mean, I can't say you don't have a calling from Allah, but you don't need to call it Morristine's Temple of America or anything related to it if you don't have a genealogy connected to it.

Speaker 3: 55:51

But you know, people do it and sometimes we've had temples in the United that have done that and then they came and they were able to get it straight Like, hey, we've been doing this, We've just been doing this on our own. How are we really supposed to be doing this? And then now we're in a position to aid and assist them and help them establish their demonstration according to law so bingo, nyp.

Speaker 2: 56:15

More is coming soon, we're here for you family now um, hold on did not point at one individual.

Speaker 1: 56:28

The show was only one hour. I see you chose to act like you didn't know of me and of what. Who is that? Uh, islam, what you mean this guy?

Speaker 3: 56:43

I don't know what you mean, brother um, you must think I'm talking about him and, brother, I'm I'm definitely not talking about you when I say this guy didn't know this and that I'm not referring to you at all. The person who I'm talking about, they know who I'm talking about and that's why I didn't mention names, brother. So if there's any confusion, trust, I'm not talking about you, beloved, at all.

Speaker 1: 57:07

Now Sham God King, who is Cosmo L under with Supreme Grand Chic.

Speaker 3: 57:15

Yeah. So you know, when people ask questions like that, we're not under a Supreme Grand Chic. We have National Grand Chic and I'm the National Grand Chic. I was appointed by Shahid Ali Il Adept Grand Chic out of Chicago. But as far as Supreme Grand Chic, we're not under that body, we're not under that jurisdiction over there, got you? We work with other Supreme Grand Chics.

Speaker 3: 57:47

I've been on some of their other shows, I've been to other temples and things of that nature that you can see me all over the place dealing with these brothers and sisters. But as far as Supreme Grand Sheik, I'm the National Grand Sheik and we don't deal with. We don't deal with that title because there's really only supposed to be one Supreme Grand Sheik and there's a bunch of them right now. So if it's so, islam family, all is well, all is well, all is well. Beloved, I see you. Rg Moore Network. All is good. See, that's love.

Speaker 3: 58:15

But as far as Supreme Grand Sheik, that's a title where there's supposed to be only one Supreme Grand Sheik. So it doesn't make sense to now become another Supreme Grand Sheik. But I deal with, I'm in good standing with Supreme Grand Sheik, prather Ill. We're in good standing and relation with one another, braswell Bay of Temple no 1 has. Ask Ace Damuil about Cosmo Hill. If it's the Inc, you can ask Brother A Hopkins Bay, the Assistant National Grand Sheik there, about Cosmo Hill. So if you want to vet who I am, go talk to the elders. Don't talk to people that's just members. Go talk to the Supreme Grand Sheiks, go talk to the Assistant Supreme Grand Sheiks and see if they have an issue with me, and I think you'll find that they'll tell you I'm upright 90 degrees and I don't go for none of that mess.

Speaker 1: 59:24

All right Boys we have. Work to this platform is the key. Thank you, brother amazite. Brother amazite, if that's you, let me know. Uh, real quick, I want to give a special shout out to my brother, roy bay, in the building. What's?

Speaker 1: 59:45

up what's going on? Roy bay? I know I've been knowing Roy Bay for a long, long, long time. That's my brother, amazite. Yeah, yeah yo, amazite. What's up? Amazite? Amazite was on last week. Peace to Amazite. I was like yo that looked familiar. Peace to Amazite, new Orleans, in the building. We got Roy Bay. We got Queen slash the Bronx in the building with. We got Roy Bay. We got Queens slash the Bronx in the building With that said, thank you for coming out, brother Cosmo L. These were all my own personal questions, just to let you know. So I hope we clarified a lot. We have how the Morris Science Temple functions, one, two, and this is the final one. One, and then we're going to move on to some other subjects. Uh, I think we got a big one coming in a couple weeks. Man, this is going to be a wonderful build. I want y'all to. I'm not going to say what it is I'm not going to say what it is.

Speaker 1: 1:00:45

We got a wonderful build coming up. Man, uh, you're gonna love this man on the uh 29th. I think it is 29th. I think it On the 29th. I think it is 29th. I think it's the 29th. I think it is. Let me just make sure I'm writing exact before we close out. Yes, it is the 29th. It's going to be a two-hour podcast. The National Grand Sheet, cosmo L, will be in the building and some others. On that note, thank y'all for tuning in. I really appreciate y'all no doubt.

Speaker 2: 1:01:14

Don't forget to comment, like, share, subscribe. Yes, thank, you peace.