The practice of Santeria and the Orishas

Stepping into the realm of ancient wisdom, Baba Victor brings 45 years of experience as a Lukumi priest to this profound conversation about Santeria, Orisha traditions, and spiritual authenticity. Born and raised in Chicago to Mexican parents, Victor shares his remarkable journey from receiving his first sacred necklaces at eight years old to becoming a respected elder in a tradition that once operated in complete secrecy.

The discussion unveils the fascinating origins of Santeria—how enslaved Yoruba people preserved their spiritual practices by hiding them behind Catholic saints during the transatlantic slave trade. With remarkable clarity, Baba Victor explains the theology of this often misunderstood tradition, from Olodumare (the supreme creator) to the various Orishas who serve as divine intermediaries rather than gods themselves. His breakdown of spiritual concepts like Odu (your spiritual destiny pattern) challenges common misconceptions about what it means to be a "child" of particular Orishas.

Perhaps most valuable is Baba Victor's guidance on navigating authentic spiritual practice in an age of increasing commercialization. He offers three powerful criteria for choosing spiritual guides: seek reputation over location, character over titles, and the ability to communicate spiritual wisdom over merely speaking ritual languages. His passionate advocacy for practicing openly rather than hiding one's spiritual identity reflects a transformation from a tradition born in secrecy to one that can now proudly share its profound wisdom with the world.

Whether you're a curious newcomer or experienced practitioner, this conversation offers rare insights into divination practices, sacred altar creation, spiritual possession, and the ethical foundations of Orisha traditions. Connect with Baba Victor at gotbaba.org or on social media to continue learning from his accessible, no-nonsense approach to spiritual wisdom.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Baba Victor
• 5:33 Santeria Origins and Catholic Influence
• 10:46 Olodumare and Orishas Explained
• 18:20 The Nature of Divination and Ebos
• 27:37 Sacred Spaces and Spiritual Altars
• 37:05 Spiritual Possession and Transformation
• 46:05 Navigating Stigmas in Santeria Practice
• 51:57 Choosing Godparents and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:12

peace, peace, peace, world. How you doing this, your brother mikey fever? You know I'm saying peace of the world. Hope everyone had a great day. Peace of the gods, peace to the earth. Peace to the hebrews. Salam alaikum to my islamic people. I will bow to my haitian buddha practice practice practitioners, you know. Salam alaikum to the apollo people. You see I'm butchering that, forgive me. Peace to the power community. Peace to the santeria, the ifa people, bendy, sean and all that you know, of course. You know, guys gotta show love to the atrs man. Okay, you know, we sitting there, the tone right. We got big brother baba victor in the building that's me.

Speaker 2: 1:01

Thank you for having me that's all love, my brother.

Speaker 1: 1:04

You know we had to set the tone right, get the vibes going. I hear it. I hear it. This music man is very relaxing. Tell the story.

Speaker 2: 1:15

That's it. That's what music does man.

Speaker 1: 1:19

Definitely. So we're gonna tone that out right now and we're gonna get into this out right now and we're going to get into this, oh man. So, Baba Victor, brother, it's a pleasure to have you on here. Welcome to the NYP platform. You know, introducing you to the people. We'd like to know a little more about you, Baba Victor. So where do you hail from? Where are you coming from, brother?

Speaker 2: 1:40

All right man, I'm located, born and raised in Chicago, Midwest. All right man, I'm located, born and raised in Chicago, midwest. Yeah, chi-town, my whole life been in Chicago. But you know, I've been as far as the community of Orisha, I've been exposed to some of the I always call it the Mecca, the three Meccas of Lukumi, which is Miami, new York and Chicago, some of the major cities. You know you can include Atlanta in there, but you know that's growing up.

Speaker 2: 2:09

Everybody was associated with New York and Florida and in the community we always mingled. You know, we always interchanged, we always traveled, we always had that connection as far as the community, because growing up in the community, man, it was small in chicago, so you had a, you had to branch out to to some of the elders that you needed and sometimes we had to like resource them out and have people come in. But, um, I've been in this for, uh, 45 years in the tradition of of or and Lukumi 45 years, 45 years I've been initiated Shango. I've been initiated Shango for almost 30 years, maybe about 28 years, and Baba Lawu priest for 23 years.

Speaker 1: 3:04

Mvp huh I don't know about and Baba Lawu priest for 23 years, MVP huh I don't know about MVP, but I consider myself an elder.

Speaker 2: 3:11

And the other good thing is being in it for so long, I've seen the transitions, I've seen the changes, man, I've seen all the evolutions, I think, and that's why I always say man, I'm a good reference to speak on it, because I've been in it for so long and not just been initiated and just been about my life Like I've been, like I've been in the streets. You know I've been in the trenches with this religion when it was like you had to hide everything and you know you had to worry about police busting in.

Speaker 1: 3:43

So before we go into that, I'd like to know more. How did you get introduced into this? Give us a little bit about your background. Your childhood years Were you raised religious organized religion. As far as Christian, yeah, I was definitely raised really strong Lutheran.

Speaker 2: 3:59

Christian, really strong Lutheran Christian. But I'm second generation priest in this tradition of Arisha. My father got initiated when I was about eight years old.

Speaker 2: 4:13

He had got introduced to my godmother, which is his godmother helped him out with some things, performed some small miracles for us. Someone had introduced him when he was going through some trouble. You know how it goes. It's like, hey, I know this lady, she's helping me out. It just got to him. He got out of some legal stuff. It was like a miraculous thing. He was flabbergasted by the power of it. This is what you know.

Speaker 2: 4:46

In the in the 1980, you know what I'm saying. So it's like you really didn't hear about it. So he got into it, got initiated. He got me and my sister our necklaces. We took it from there and and and from him. When I was about 15, you know he allowed us to take it as far as we wanted to. So that's when I started making decisions on my own. I got my warriors, you know, I got my. That's the one thing he got me in my neck. This is when I was about eight, so about 15, I got my warriors about 20. I was initiated, you know, and, and I just moved on, you know, continuing to follow. This was my path, you know.

Speaker 1: 5:28

So I have a question is nationality background?

Speaker 2: 5:32

Yeah, I'm Mexican, but my nationality is American. My ethnic background is, yeah, is Mexican. You know, my family is 400 Mexican. I'm not Cuban, not Puerto Rican. I'm Mexican, chicano. You know what? I'm not Cuban, I'm Puerto Rican, I'm Mexican, I'm Chicano. You know what I'm saying? I don't even. Here's the thing about me. Here's why I'm a good reference too, because I don't even speak fluent Spanish.

Speaker 2: 5:54

You know what I mean? Yeah, both my parents were bilingual, but you know, when they speak both languages, they raised us. I had to learn Spanish on my own you, I'm my own.

Speaker 1: 6:05

You know what I mean. It's like I look at the same thing too, with the Creole background in English, and so you know they speak Creole. I respond in English, but I understand it. It's like it's like I'm a dog, I don't speak, I understand. I'm like, oh yeah, I shoot back the English at you. They look at me like what's going?

Speaker 2: 6:17

on man that was rough man in this community. I gotta tell you something growing up in in Santa Rio is what it was called back then. Um it, it was primarily spanish. You know what I mean and and it was always spoken in spanish. You know readings for you was done in spanish. You don't even know what's going on. You know I had to be like yo, what's he asking? What's happening? You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 6:39

It was tough that's dope man, but yo look, look at it, look it, look at your time, your tenure in there Like you've been there 45 years.

Speaker 2: 6:48

No excuses, man.

Speaker 1: 6:50

You pushed yourself, you know. So we're going to get into some questions, like as far as we're're spoon feeding our listeners and our viewers we only, you know, asking questions for the sake of you know, educational purposes, to make it understandable for them, in case him or her may one day, you know, have a inquiry or a desire to get initiated. So we're going to ask some basic questions, you, you know I'm done with that man.

Speaker 2: 7:24

My whole platform too. I've changed it to um, to just for beginners. Man, I I'm over the drama and all the everybody who, who knows more and everything. I'm like you know what. Let me step out of that. I ain't trying to be a part of that. I'm just gonna help out those who want to learn. I call it the newbies. You know what I mean? Yeah, a lot of it is ego.

Speaker 1: 7:44

You know, sometimes when people get caught up in these, practices yeah, they like it, boosted they. They develop a complex where they feel like they are the authoritative figure of such and such practices. And it's weird, man, what?

Speaker 2: 7:59

can you say I got a lot on that. I can speak on both of them. Go ahead, I'm down with whatever you want to ask me you asked me to be here, so be careful what you ask for my man, listen bro. Listen, you don't say no. I don't know why you chose me, but I'm going to come with you.

Speaker 1: 8:16

It's all love. It's all love man. Yeah, how did Santeria emerge from the fusion of Yoruba traditions and Catholicism in the Caribbean?

Speaker 2: 8:26

Yeah, so you know, we call it the diaspora. So when the Yoruba practices very basic knowledge, most people know, after the slave trade, they started intermingling. They started Cuba was it was a major one Brazil, trinidad, right, and they they weren't allowed. So, as you know, they had to hide the religion. So the religion was born out of secrecy. That's one. They had to hide the religion and one of the greatest things that the tradition that we have in the diaspora.

Speaker 2: 9:00

We come from an energy where they fought for something, you know, they believed in something and risked death man to them and to the family. Let's think about that. They kept it alive, knowing that they could die or their kids can die, for all of us to be aware of it and practice this in the diaspora. Right, and I respect that. I'm like yo, that's my, that's my elders, I'm down with my, with my Lukumi diaspora elders. So they had to hide the religion behind catholicism. That was the oppressed, that was the, the tradition that they had to be, and catholicism has a lot of saints, okay, so what they did was, you know, they synchronized in orisha with the saint and they had their saints up there and they were worshiping the saints a lot. So that's how you get the term santeria, which just means the way of the saints.

Speaker 1: 9:46

All right, that's all it is. That's all it is. It's basic, it's basic man.

Speaker 2: 9:50

So they saw them because Catholic was in the church but they didn't really have that many saints up in the practitioner, you know what I mean. It was just Jesus Christ, you know what I mean. Maybe the church has them, but they were like all about their statues in the rooms. Like yo, they, they're practicing their Santeria. I mean they really, they really bought the same religion, but it was the Orishas that they was there hiding the religion and secrecy, and that's how it got fused. But what happened is, over time, when the freedoms came and they didn't have to, they can practice what they wanted. By then you get two or three generations later. They were just growing up into the Catholic tradition and they were practicing both and then Santeria became a term that was basically with a little bit of the Catholic background infused with the Orisha tradition.

Speaker 1: 10:33

Got you. I like that, I like that. So, as far as the theology and beliefs, right, right, what is the nature of Alundamare, the supreme being in Santeria?

Speaker 2: 10:46

Alright, so the one you know. I've done some teachings on this. As far as what? Would you consider our religion? You know our faith. Is it a monotheistic tradition? Is it a polytheism? You know what I mean. But we do have a supreme being. So, to answer your question, Olundumare, Olorun and Olofi are just different names, different titles for the one supreme source, which is the creator, which is, in English terms, God. So Olojumare is the creator of the universe, the creator of the stars.

Speaker 2: 11:20

There's many different translations for that word. Yoruba words and a lot of the Lukumi and Santeria have a lot of root words that are in Yoruba, but they sometimes take on different meanings. You know what I mean. Sort of like a Latin root word, but the word can have something else. But a lot of the root words of Yoruba are compound words. So Lujumare, it gives you all the creator, but it's like a bunch of things in there the owner of the womb that created the stars. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 11:44

And then Olo Run. That is Olo, meaning owner. In the Yoruba tradition, Olo Run means heaven. So when you say I'm praising to Olo Run, I'm praising to the owner of heaven. So a lot of times they represent that to the sun. Okay, Olo Fin is another term for just straight God and like, sometimes, the embodiment of God that we have on earth. So, to answer your question, that's the supreme being. What does that mean? That is our creator, that is our one source. We still have that higher source. Orishas are very equivalent to like angels. They ain't above God, they ain't equal to God. We have that supreme being.

Speaker 1: 12:19

You stole that right out. I was about to ask you that question. So what are the orishas? Can you break down the different? If you can recall the top of your head, how many orishas are there?

Speaker 2: 12:27

so I can tell you. So there's, they would say, there's like 200, there's like 400 orishas, and a lot of them are not as widely known a lot of them yeah, right that, more like intermediate.

Speaker 2: 12:39

I'm on both sides, you know what I'm saying. So you got a bunch of different orish. Not all of them made it over to the diaspora with the knowledge of them, but there's the main that we all work with in Nisheche, which is traditional, and then Lukumi, which is in the diaspora. There's a lot of Orishas that we work with and that would be Obatala first, elegua or Eshu, and then Obatala Yemiyah Oshun Shango we talked about Yaganyu Ochozi, ogun Olokun, orisha Oku, the Bejis Edu, which was the third twin, or the triplet that came out of the twins Yewa Oba Obanani. The list goes on Yewa Oba Obanani, the list goes on Inle. So there's a lot of different orishas that cover the elements of the world, and that's basically explaining that this is what we do.

Speaker 2: 13:39

We are one with the universe. We are one with nature. We are one with the earth. We are one with the air and the wind, the stars. We are one. We are one with the universe. We are one with nature. We are one with the earth. We are one with the air and the wind, the stars. We are one. We are one source. The law of the oneness flows within us all in a tradition of IFA, and intermingling with those energies and elements is intermingling with those orishas and understanding those powers and those dynamics.

Speaker 1: 14:00

Got you? Wow, all right, it's like an encyclopedia man. Will you break it down like? So I, like you know before I go, it's how I ask questions. I'm gonna put this down first. Um, when you speak of obatala, shango oshun yamaya, right, we you already have um noted that each of them deal with the elements right of the world, the universe. So, if somebody can you describe the characteristics of Obatala Like?

Speaker 2: 14:36

if they say this person has Obatala on them. Yeah, I can describe the Orisha. And then what I've been doing lately is doing the true essence of a child of an Orisha, because an Orisha is very different than a child of an Orisha. That is the biggest misconception. This is what I've been preaching at and teaching, because people think, oh, shango is this way, so that means I'm this way, and that's not how it works.

Speaker 1: 14:56

Go ahead, let it go.

Speaker 2: 14:58

That's not how it works, man.

Speaker 2: 14:59

I think one video made Shango. He's like they are. That's not how it works. I made a series I've done like four of them, the true essence of the child of Arisha. I broke it down what a child of an Arisha is as opposed to an Arisha. So, to answer your question, his essence and his energy and his energy and flows and power deals with the body, the temple, and he's the owner of the head, which represents everything within the head temple, and he's the owner of the head which represents everything within the head intelligence and wisdom. He's the creator. There are many different paths of different orations. That's something to consider as well. One is paths that he created. You know the destiny and he helped mold in one of the paths of Obatala Ajala when he actually created the destiny that we chose before him. Then we chose it and he created it, so he works with that.

Speaker 2: 15:48

His colors also represent a lot of who we are. His color is just straight white and his name means the king of the white cloth, obata ala. So it's a lot about the names actually mean something. You know, like yemoja is literally like yeye, eja, which is the mother of fishes. So a lot of times the name just tell who they are. You like Yeye Eja, which is the mother of fishes. So a lot of times the names just tell who they are, you know. But Obatala is the owner of the white cloth.

Speaker 2: 16:10

The purity represents the cleanness, represents the character. You know that cloth could represent character. They'll say don't let Epo red palm oil stain your white cloth. You got to be careful of bad character staining that, the people around you, keeping that clock clean of impurities. You got to treat your body like a temple. You know what I mean clean and pure, all that that can come with that. So obatala, that's his energy. He's a male orisha. He's considered the father of the orishas. He's very wise and very smart, very intelligent. Used to be a warrior. There's many paths with him. That's like obatala ayaguna, where he was a young warrior. There's a path in a particular Odu where he decided I'm not going to fight, no more, and he gave all his tools over to Ogun and he dressed all in white to become a pacifist and to become who he is. So there's evolutions that the Orishas go through too.

Speaker 1: 16:56

I have heard that before, even down within the Voodoo culture I hear people they personify certain laws and you know, now that you're saying it, even in sensory ether people be like well, you know I'm a child of this, so I do personify that characteristic of that particular Orisha and you know they start behaving as such and I'm like you know that's some kind of psychosis.

Speaker 2: 17:22

To me it is psychosis and it's also like a misrepresentation. You're not quite understanding why. You are a child of a certain ratio. So if you're a child of Obatala, it doesn't mean it just means you need him. You need the things that he can bring you health. If you're a child of Ogun, it doesn't mean that you want to fight all the time. He needs to protect you, possibly from surgeries. He needs to protect you, possibly from surgeries. He needs to protect you from violence that can come on you.

Speaker 2: 17:47

You know you might be a child of Shango. It doesn't mean you're like a warrior and a king and you're like no. You just mean there's going to be battles in your life that you're going to fight. Maybe community battles it may be. You know're not necessarily have to be shanggu. You know what I mean. I said, if you ever get a chance I'll send you the video when I went off on my stop stereotyping these orishas, stop trying to blame your character on orishas. You talking like you're just a class 8b and you can't shut your mouth. And you said because I'm a child of ochun. I said, man, keep ochun out your mind, man, just because you don't know how to shut up, man, I was like don't fucking hear me, I got you right there.

Speaker 1: 18:28

Hold on, bumble.

Speaker 2: 18:29

Cloud. Nah, it's. You know, what I'm saying. I've seen y'all too much.

Speaker 1: 18:33

You know what I'm saying Nah, that's Yo, it's crazy.

Speaker 2: 18:37

That's hilarious.

Speaker 1: 18:38

But I have a question Like what is an Odu?

Speaker 2: 18:43

I'm glad you asked that question like what is it? What is the odoo? I'm glad you asked that. Um, so the the odoo's are the corpus of the word of an orisha called orun mila, the one who knows your destiny. Orun mila, the one who knows your salvation, the one who knows your destiny, is what he is, and the corpus, his word, is called ifa and within the 256 there's a binary code, a system of codes, an index of information of how to tap into portals and energies and vibrations of very frequencies, and each Odoo tells you who you are. Each Odoo tells you this. So that's why I was about to say that it's not about the child of Arishu, it's your Odoo.

Speaker 2: 19:21

If your Od dude says you got a bad character, your old dude says temper. Your old dude says no patience. If your old dude says this, if your old dude says that the susceptibility to all, to drink and to this, that's within your old dude, that's telling you the vibrations of your DNA, that's matrixing within the universe. That's all. It's not about the original, it's about your old dude. Great question.

Speaker 1: 19:40

That's mathematical right there. That's science for your ass people. It's so dope how you said that, how you put that in a proper framework. So it's finally, your destiny is through your Odu. And how can you determine? You said through Odu how can you determine that a person has a particular Orisha on them? Are there any procedures that's taken? Protocols, rituals?

Speaker 2: 20:04

So I think what you're asking is how do we reveal their head, Arisha?

Speaker 1: 20:09

Yeah, your head Arisha, how do you reveal? Your Ori, as they call it.

Speaker 2: 20:12

Well, ori is different than your tutelary Arisha. Your Ori comes with you before, during and after Earth. That is your best thing, that is with you always, that accompanies you already Now the Arishaisha. So the basic fundamentals and I always speak fast because there's always a lot of information and I know it's going to be recorded, so I just kind of just go ahead, you're good they can play back.

Speaker 2: 20:34

Let's do this. So listen, the the concept is. The basic concept is you chose your re, you chose your destiny, your re was witness to that and then, within that, you chose an orisha. So you chose a destiny. You chose your destiny, your re was witness to that and then, within that, you chose an orisha. So you chose a destiny. You chose experiences, you chose trials and tribulations. Okay, and that was chosen before you came to earth.

Speaker 2: 20:54

The one who was witness was arumila they call my letting ping which is witness to your choice of destiny and of god and your re. Then it was chosen this is my trials and tribulations, this is the orisha that's going to help me overcome this in life. That's why it's very important to have that marked or revealed properly. Okay, and with that is the one who was witnessed was Orumila. So when you come from, you know you're going to get into these politics and you're going to get into people who don't work with Baba Lawu and all that other stuff, and you're going to get into people who don't work with Babalawus and all that other stuff, and they determine basically there's a special reading that's determined who is your, who is the Orisha, to reveal that, who is the one that wants to be seated, who's the one that's ready to guard your ori, who is the select head with that special readings for that, and I'm going to give you my strong opinion. It should go to Arumila because he was a witness.

Speaker 2: 21:45

And it's done on a sacred opan, ifa, which we bring down Arumila to the ground. It's done to complete ifa corpus. It's done in person. We mark the odus and inscribe on top of the opan ifa, sacred ifa tree. We present everything to your head. We ask Arumila in person and we find out and ascertain and reveal who is your or head orisha. Okay, I always say it reveals very important about the word I'm choosing. We didn't mark it then, it wasn't marked then that was decided and marked before you came to earth.

Speaker 1: 22:17

We are revealing this information I like that very scientific methodical in it. You know, I I noticed that when you speak, when you define these terms, you you use a lot of etymology and linguistic, like you're showing the root of the word, what it means. I like how you're breaking that down, man. Yeah, you know listen.

Speaker 2: 22:34

I don't like to say a lot. You know I may not know a lot a lot of prayers, a lot of songs, because I like to know what I'm saying. You know what I mean. And then I like to do my history. You know, I like to have a little me. Sometimes there's this chance you're like hey, just say this, it means something. You know what I mean and you memorize it, but I like knowing information about it. You know, I like to know a little bit understanding and educate myself that's dope, that's dope man.

Speaker 1: 22:58

So, um, say like um, let's go about this right. Right, if somebody comes to you like they come to you and be like I'm having a particular problem whatsoever, I feel like I have a negative energy that's placed upon me. How would you go about finding them a solution you know? Reveal to me.

Speaker 2: 23:20

Divination, my man Divination. So if I so, I always explain this. It is no different. So let, if you go to a doctor and you say, hey, I got a headache, I need you to fix it, the doctor don't know nothing. He, he's got to do blood work, he's got to take some x-rays, he's got to do a medical background, he's got to do some questions, he's got to check you out after a thorough background. It can come from yo doing your blood work, you're deficient in your blood, you're low in your iron. This is what's causing headaches. Or it can be like, you know, you got some other deficiency going on, and or it can be like yo, I checked you out, you got nothing but stress. Right now, that's the thing that's causing you headaches. You know what I mean. Or it can be like yo take some Advil, so you don't know what I was doing proper.

Speaker 2: 24:14

Look, so someone comes in to me and says, yo, I think I got a spirit on me, or my roads are blocked. You know, can you prescribe a remedy? Every remedy has a solution. So let's say your roads are blocked. I don't know if your roads are blocked because you're making bad choices and I need to get your head right and redirect you, of course, correct some of the path you're walking. I don't know if it's a spirit that's a latch down you. I don't know if it's witchcraft that's a latch down you, I don't know if it's like you know. All those will require a different remedy, or a different elbow, which is a remedy you know.

Speaker 2: 24:44

So divination helps me understand exactly what the problem is and what the cause is. Sometimes divination will reveal you don't have a problem, no more, it's fine. They all got a bad spirit on me. Our ruler says you're fine, you know what I mean. And it's like there's some other issues going on, picking up on mental problems. You know what I mean. Let's investigate this a little bit. You know what I mean. On the flip side, someone thinks they got mental problems and I took someone off of. There was bipolar medicine, there was all these other types of medicine what a P? I forgot what it was All these different medicines for depression, prozac and some other ones. So it turns out that they had a spiritual problem. They went off to medicine and they're like yo, I still feel alright without taking this medicine. Now my doctor wants to double it on me. I said you're fine, my man. It's like that's a diagnosis. That's what a reading does man? It's like that's the diagnosis, that's what a reading.

Speaker 1: 25:31

does I like that. I like that If you could break down, just for the sake of listeners and viewers. What is the Igbo? I know some people spoke about it on this platform before, but I want to hear your perspective.

Speaker 2: 25:41

Yeah, I watched the lady, the Santera, that was on there. You told me to check out your YouTube. I saw what she did. I was able to watch it. You know what? I mean shout out to y'all by swimming yeah, I was like there's been a real busy week. I had some ceremonies, so I had to just kind of you know browse through to kind of get a vibe for what you are. You know what I mean and everything she did a great job.

Speaker 2: 26:01

She seems really authentic man. Blessings to her man. Oh, y'all bless her, so proud of where she's come. I, I and just she just did a wonderful job. But um, as far as ebo, ebo, yeahB-O.

Speaker 2: 26:14

EBO all it is, no, no, no, it's all good. Ebo all it is is. It means a lot of different means, and EBO is basically your solution, your remedy, and that can consist of many things. That can consist of fruits and offerings, what we call adimum. Sometimes they can involve a sacrifice, sometimes they can involve course correcting obedience. That's a form of an Ebo. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 26:48

So a lot of the Ebo. What was?

Speaker 2: 26:49

recommended. What was your remedy? Is the remedies marked Different types of remedies, different types for whatever solution.

Speaker 1: 26:53

All right, that's dope. That's dope because I heard people you know in the past spoken about that. Like you know, you gotta run into the woods sometimes. I'm like what, like stuff, like that you know, man, here's the deal.

Speaker 2: 27:04

There's a lot of people that when they're not really knowledged and studied, they will mark unnecessary things. A real priest I shouldn't say a real priest, but a priest that's working with the persons and your intent is to help the person. It should be like let me find, let me start small and work my way up. You know, sometimes things can be solved, which is we have a tale of Arumina, which is called. You Don't Care, arumina, I could just pass this over to you, and that's all Arumina says man, you don't need this, you don't need any of that, you know. And then sometimes there's some extravagant things, but there is a time and a place for all that and I ain't going to say nothing about that. But, like you know, I side eye certain things. If it's consistently, you're paying big, big money doing these extravagant things and it's like let's look to help the person, man, let's see, let's not do unnecessary remedies.

Speaker 1: 28:04

You know what it is too, and this is something across the board in all these diaspora practices. And again, if you're offended, maybe you have done it. People, you got a lot of prophets out there that's just for profit. False prophets for the profit. Uh, what's, what's the word of charlatans out there that have elaborate altars and all kinds of things, and when you go there, they can't even kill a roach.

Speaker 2: 28:28

I could say this over the last 10 years maybe five or 10 years the interest in this tradition has skyrocketed and with social media, it just really created the velocity of interest. Interest comes, predators, interest comes a lot of people looking at as a cash cow and losing the principles of why we are on the other side of this table. Of helping somebody is for the person. It's not to make money first. The money and compensation will come in its right place, but if you're looking for that first and you're doing things of that nature, it's going to catch up to you and people will not follow you.

Speaker 2: 29:08

Man, I've been in places. Man, I've been in some dark places. Man, in my life, financially, yo, man, I'll tell you, I've been there Like I'm looking for food to eat because I was trying to practice this religion, going full time in my botanica in 2008 when the real estate market crashed and I got people needing my help and I'm like trying to make rent and I got family and a baby I'm doing, really, my baby in my carrier and I'm trying to make rent and feed my family, and you know, and a person comes and says you know, listen, I'll pay whatever, I just want to get this girl back. I want to do this love spell. You know I'll pay $1,000. And I'll be like, listen, I can't help you. Or someone feels I feel I got a spirit in me. I think I need an exorcism. You know, I think of testing me. I know it was a richest testing and over time I built up a reputation in that group. You know what I mean. You try to make a quick buck.

Speaker 1: 29:57

You're gonna have a quick fall yeah, of course, and that's that right there that you possess is called integrity. You have integrity some people don't have that integrity. They, just as you say, they try and get that quick buck. They want a high style profile and be like pay for a subscription. I'm like listen, you know, to each your own. It's a business.

Speaker 2: 30:14

Yo, you know, as you said, go, you know, go in there and collect your coins, but when you, when that fall comes, you're gonna fall hard yeah, I believe if anybody's paying for something I don't you know I'm not knocking anybody when it comes to money, what they charge, you know I mean tights and all that other stuff. You know what I mean. I I would say like, listen, if you're going to make someone pay for something, make sure they're getting something for it, not just give you money for nothing. You know what I mean. I've done some stuff for you on that. But I hear you, what we call Iwa Pele, we call character, iwa is character. There's many different types of Iwas Iwa Peba, responsible Iwa sotito, honesty. You know what I'm saying. So there's a lot of different Iwas that we need to be interacting as a we're human beings first.

Speaker 1: 31:01

Mm-hmm Got you, so I have this question for you, right? How do sacred places, altars and shrines reflect the cosmology of Santeria? Say that one more time. How do sacred spaces?

Speaker 2: 31:25

altars and shrines reflect the cosmology of Santeria. You know we have altars, we have our sacred spaces. Altars have generated from the beginning of the genesis of Santeria. You know, santeria is just a name for the religion in that time. It reflects the time of that religion and the Santeria had a lot of statues and a lot of Catholic statues. Now, you know, we have sacred spaces that we still put in our homes and shrines.

Speaker 2: 31:46

There's nothing wrong with that. You know what I mean. We have adapted to our diasporic conditions in our environments. Right, you know, back in the day in Nisheche in Nigeria there were certain cults of certain Orishas and they had the community town shrine and they had the head priest or the parent or the head of the family and that was the shrine and that was it. We don't have that. We have to kind of create our own spaces within our own privacy of our home, and this is the genesis for the need. A lot of the religion that we have was birthed out of the necessity to adapt to our environment. So, yes, we had to bring in certain altars in our house, we had to create certain things in certain spaces and that reflects the cosmology of how we are interacting with our within our home so that's dope right there.

Speaker 1: 32:33

So when you know the cosmology of the altars, like I have seen altars, what they call bovedas, with like three glasses, some, some, so the boveda is a spiritual altar that represents the spiritual vault of the geyser spiritual ancestors, and then there's orisha altars.

Speaker 2: 32:50

As you know, they're separate, but the bovada is something that is a very um, that would be more of the santeria part that evolves, of the bovada, of the glasses and the certain prayers. But you know, I always recommend a bovada because that that is your conduit. The water is the conduit and the source, the vibrations for energies and spirits to be called in, and you create like a vault and that can be your dedicated sacred space.

Speaker 1: 33:17

Alright, so can you describe a Santeria altar? Because I have seen like Welcome Past Botanicas. They have these elaborate like pots, or I don't want to say urns, but it's like these elaborate like fine china pots.

Speaker 2: 33:29

I have seen like these things looking like so, over time, in Santeria, what would they adapted what they call soperas, which is basically a soup tureen, and they have them are born with the colors and the implements that represent those orishas. And those orishas, you know, anything that is started out in its form, it could just you can buy it from Chinatown or you can get it whatever. But once it's consecrated, once it's appropriately washed, prepared, birthed of an Orisha, housed the Orishas, it becomes a vault, it becomes very sacred energy that you're holding a portal of Asher within your own home and then Olo Orisha, which is the term for Santero, or Santero Olo, all back to all owner of heaven, all orisha basically means you own orishas and you have a part of that tangibly. That's one of the beautiful things of this tradition is that we're not just praying to elements. We've been able to tangibly take some of that. I take some of that I share and house and have that within our home and within our space got you.

Speaker 1: 34:30

that's dope, bro, that's so.

Speaker 2: 34:32

in order to have that done, you got to have a priest or a priestess come by and do the whole initial setup for you Well in order to have the own Orisha, you have to have been undergone the ceremony for old Orisha, which is crowning Yoko Ocha, which just means the seating of Orisha, and when you make Santo I don't like to use the word Santos or Santeria, but basically, when you make Santo, or when you crown Santo, or when you Yoko Ocha and you those are all terms for going under initiation for a priest, orisha or Santero then you have been given your Orishas that are birthed in these pots properly. Then you're housing this your, your, your orishas that are birthed in these pots properly. Then you're housing this. I said that came from somebody else's orishas. Life comes from life, so they were born from the godparents orishas. Then you take those orishas and you house them in your home properly and have taught how to attend to them and contain them.

Speaker 1: 35:28

Got you. That's dope, man, that's dope. It sounds very similar to other practices, man.

Speaker 2: 35:35

Of course, man. That is how it works. That's why, when you get the criticism between the slantari, or lukumi and hisheshi, I'm like man. They're different expressions.

Speaker 1: 35:44

Hmm, all right. In what ways does possession by an orisha transform both the possessed and the observers?

Speaker 2: 35:59

I don't know if it transforms, but it's so funny. Today I just dropped two videos about possession. I did, I dropped it like about four hours ago. I did, I dropped it like about four hours ago. You know, possession comes from what they call a person that can get possessed first of all. So did you say, by Orisha hold on.

Speaker 1: 36:24

They get like coming to possess, like say the um. So in what ways does possession by an Orisha transform both the possessed and the observers? Like the energy, like how does it?

Speaker 2: 36:37

Yeah, so when they're possessed by an Orisha, because you can get possessed by your like a spirit, like a human spirit, like what we call Moeto or Egun, which is the ancestors. But for those who are possessed by Orisha, they have to have one been initiated to have that ashe intertwined when you crown Orisha. It is a symbiosis. It creates an intermingling of two energies, of your soul and your body, and this Orisha become intertwined. That's why I say this is a symbiotic religion. And once you do that, some are what they're called elegun and that means you are a horse, you can be mounted, and that not everybody has that.

Speaker 2: 37:18

But if you are crowned and initiated and if you are an elegun, the orisha can then come down, and usually it's done at ceremonies where the music was playing and they're invoking these orishas. And if it's the right setting, sometimes the orishas will come down. How it transforms or what happens, you know what it does is that person. That Elagun becomes the bridge. It becomes the bridge between the people that are present. That Orisha came down for a reason wanted to show power, wanted to communicate, wanted to bless or clean the people, and they're blessed with. Actually, an Orisha can touch ground and be within you as if they're walking on earth again and sort of like a temporary reincarnation to come in and bless someone, to talk to them directly without needing a medium. So when it's done properly it's very beautiful notice.

Speaker 1: 38:05

I said when it's done properly yeah, of course I respect that because because you know, I have heard from you, know friends, I have that, I have that practice, this culture yeah and I would make a clear distinction.

Speaker 1: 38:17

You know those that knew and those that was like, as they seen the streets, was false flag and false claiming where they. They said um yo, if you pass spirit, you can't be a baba lao stuff like that. I have heard you can't be a Babalao stuff like that. I have heard you can't be a Babalao. I have heard that before. Is that true? Is that some truth that is?

Speaker 2: 38:40

true. So there's two taboos in the Lukumi tradition, and one of that you cannot be a Babalao, and one of them is if you get possessed, it doesn't mean you cannot be an Olorisha or Santera or Sano. But a Babalao is a different realm. A Babalao is a different type of level of initiation because it's born from a Lofi, and the thing about a Babalao is a Babalao can never be that elegun. He can never be that open portal for a spirit and or Orisha to overtake his body. He has to be in control. He sometimes is the master of ceremonies, he's sometimes holding and wielding a knife. He has to be in control. Imagine if a Babalaw was there and he's trying to divine or he's taken over by a spirit. It just there has to be someone where that door is closed. And so that's one of the prerequisites to becoming a Babalaw is not being an elegum, but Ororisha, all of that, or spiritualist, or someone that mounts spirits, or or muertos, or angles, or ancestors. You know that all happens, but those are different realms.

Speaker 1: 39:41

But to be to. Yes, that is a thing within Babalawos. So is it bad because I have heard this within some within the Haitian voodoo culture and hearing this from you is it bad to be mounted at a? Say you go to a ceremony like a, as you guys call it, a tambone or a ceremony, is it a bad thing to be mounted?

Speaker 2: 39:57

No.

Speaker 1: 39:57

I know the dangers of it. You know if you're around negative people they could do things to harm you.

Speaker 2: 40:01

But I mean that goes with let's eliminate. Like the environment. Let's say the environment is apropos or ideal. It's never a bad thing. You know what I mean. It it's never a bad thing. You know what I mean. It's a racist. It can come down. Most people want to be that elegant. That's why people try to force those possessions. You know what I mean. They try to make it happen. It's like it's just not happening.

Speaker 1: 40:19

You know what I mean. It's the fate.

Speaker 2: 40:21

You get the theatrics, but the real ones, the real ones. It's beautiful and again, when it's done authentically, it's always done in a setting that's in a controlled environment. This is why you always want to be around your elders. This is why you want to go with elders. You want to be around an environment where you can be trusted. You don't want to be just some random Santero going to some random people's town borders and drumming and getting possessed. No one there to take care of you, look after you.

Speaker 1: 40:58

You always want to go with your posse.

Speaker 2: 40:58

You always want to go with your elders. You always want to go in places where you feel comfortable.

Speaker 1: 41:01

Definitely that protection because you know people have heard horror stories. People are just mad, horrible in general.

Speaker 1: 41:04

Man, oh man, all right, so we spoke about the beads and all that we spoke about beads yeah, we spoke about the b said you got your at a young age, your warriors and all that. He said like how, how are your warriors are selected? How, how were you giving your warriors? Like, what's the process of that? You don't have to go, you know too too deep to violate code and ethics, but how do how does one get, get their um warriors?

Speaker 2: 41:25

yeah, warriors. First, I want to mention that you know, anytime you get elek is your necklaces, you get warriors. You're handing me five initiations or crowns, and my strongest, strongest opinion, that's something that should be done when a person Intentionally, voluntarily, wants it not done because they've been forced, not done because they've been told to not told because it's coming up and you need help. And now you've got to get these warriors told to not told because it's coming up and you need help. And now you got to get these warriors. It's something that you do when you learn about them and you want to take that next step and you want to get closer. You know. So Ilekes are necklaces and beads.

Speaker 2: 42:02

The etymology of the word bead is prayer, so having prayers and orishas are connected, which you want your warriors. That is a living orisha of Eligua. There is something very powerful and secret that goes inside the vessel of an Eligua that has life and again life gives life. So it's born from the godparents. Eligua. The Ogumpa will be born from again the godparents. And there's an Osun, which is a silver rooster that represents your head in Orin. It's put up high and if it falls, it's warning of impending danger. How do you get them. You know it has to be given to you by a priest. Typically, warriors are given to you by Babalawos, especially those that work with Babalawos, and the Babalawo will prepare, he might do, he will do divination to determine how to construct your personal Ligua. He will construct the.

Speaker 2: 42:48

Let me tell you what I would do. I would divine on it. I will find out what the Odu comes from. I will find out the path of that particular igua. How is it going to be constructed? What is it going to be housed in? The shell or cement? How is it going to be Put the load in? There's a charge, secret charge. Put the stuff in it.

Speaker 2: 43:04

Semantic All myself, I never get the most. It has nail that represents that he's a warrior and a red parrot feather is very important the pluma de loro that puts on top as well. Put beads of a rumila to let it know that it was made by Baba La'u. And then, once I construct that and have the ogupa and the osu particularly prepared, then I feed them the appropriate animals, from mine to the next, and then it's given life, and then I was able. Then, from there they are living orishas, vibrating with life and like what now is born for this person sole purpose to defend and help this person. Who's going to receive them? And then I present them to the person, instruct them how to intend to them, how to take care of them, how to house them, what to do, and you continue that relationship with them that's dope.

Speaker 1: 43:48

You know I'm gonna reveal something. You know, and when they hear this that people will be bugging. I'm like what I received? One, I got a. I got a dear friend of mine I call my godmother. You know I call a godmother. You know I'm going to real her name with salute to her. There's raw like real to the core.

Speaker 1: 44:06

I remember one time I was going through A crazy point in my life and I was going through a crazy point in my life and I was given something that had like the black and red beads around, like I don't know was it a rock or something, but it's like a square shaped thing. And I was given this thing. I kept it on me and I noticed a lot of negative things were not happening around me. So one day I was out in a crazy public outing and I think I believe I misplaced this thing. Well, I knew I lost it. I'm like yo, it's not in my pocket. I got, couldn't find it, can you believe? The next day I woke up this thing was under my pillow I thought I was bugging I thought I was bummed, like no, I had this with me, right, I remember I had.

Speaker 1: 44:51

I had everyone looking everyone like, yeah, yeah, I remember you had it. You know you took it out, you know it was in the car, man you know, when you do stuff like that, you start questioning your sanity.

Speaker 2: 44:59

Like wait a minute, yeah Whoa. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 45:02

That's what's up.

Speaker 2: 45:03

That's what's up.

Speaker 1: 45:16

That was El Igual.

Speaker 2: 45:17

You go, no matter what tradition you are in. He was there for you for a reason.

Speaker 1: 45:21

That's beautiful, definitely, and I remember the song like yeah, have me like you know. I was like, oh, this, this song, you know, might, might dance to this, to this. The question I have is how do practitioners navigate the stigma and misconceptions surrounding Santeria, aoife and leukemia?

Speaker 2: 45:46

That's a big one. I've talked about this a lot and I made a lot of videos as well, trying to explain that this religion was born out of secrecy.

Speaker 2: 45:57

There's no need for that anymore. The culture was hiding it. The culture was doing things behind closed doors in basements and hiding your orishas. I got calledas. I got called out. I was doing a video and I had my necklaces. I had my ilikas. I had a bunch of them out. There was a few people ridiculing me. You're not supposed to have them out. What are you doing? What's with all these necklaces? I'm like listen, I've always been very proud of my religion. There's no need for us to hide it.

Speaker 2: 46:36

I was at an airport. My family and I were traveling to crown somebody in Florida, my daughter, who's a Shango priest. She's very proud man, she's very religious man, she's 23. She had her necklaces out and some lady came up to the airport while we're waiting at the gate to kind of board the plane and she's like you know, those necklaces, you need to put them away, you don't sit there and you don't have them out. My daughter was, like you know, a little timid. So she kind of like OK, kind of covered them up and came up to me. She's like, dad, that lady over, like you told her to put her necklaces away. And she's like, yeah, you know, I was supposed to. I was like listen, we don't hide, I said, my religion. We don't hide the religion. I said she's crowned and I've been crowned for 30 years. On it say yeah, this is my religion.

Speaker 2: 47:32

When I made Baba Laos, when everything changed for me, I was still in the sacred room inside the seven-day ceremony. My godfather sat us all down. He goes you're Baba Laos. Now you guys are high priests, you guys are priests of this religion. You're ambassadors. You don't hide this religion. If someone asks you what that is around your wrist, you tell them what it is and you tell them who you are. You say this religion and it changed my life. I said no, there's no hiding, no more, I'm not going to be up all loving my religion and yet denying my religion to someone who asked about it. Because why? Why? Because there's a stigma. Yeah, we do animal sacrifices. Let's talk about it. You know what I mean. You sacrifice an animal religion. Come with the Muslims. They do their ceremonies too.

Speaker 1: 48:12

Come for prayer.

Speaker 2: 48:14

Come on Like the rabbi wanted Come on, listen, don't cry to me. Come after the Jews too, for the young compare and they sacrifice a chicken on the day of atonement. Come on, let's do this.

Speaker 2: 48:24

You want to do the sacrifice of Abraham when he killed his son. You guys do that ceremony every day in the Middle East and Islam. Well, come out to everybody. What about you Christians eating meat every day? You know what I'm saying. You didn't care about the animal. At least, when the animal dies with us, it dies with pride, it dies with sacrifice, humanely, with prayers, and we release the spirit to heaven. Come on now, what are we hiding our religion for? Like? Why don't you Listen? I'm questioning you. I'm questioning you, tell, I'm questioning you.

Speaker 1: 48:49

Tell him Now, I'm with you. I like that. I like that Because you know you shouldn't have to hide who you are to make someone else comfortable, make yourself comfortable, make somebody comfortable Now that it's getting popular.

Speaker 2: 48:58

You see a lot of artists like Beyonce coming out with her songs and talking about she's in a religion. You know you heard a song with my ocean energy. You know. You know they're coming out with it now because, because it's accepted. But where was you 10 years ago? I know you were in it before you came to that song.

Speaker 1: 49:14

It's always like that. I'm telling you. People do that all the time. They do that man, not me.

Speaker 2: 49:20

I've been proud of this religion before it was popular. Look at me, funny. I went through all that and them side eyes and judging my family, judging me.

Speaker 1: 49:31

Being that we're speaking about Oshun, how does oshun embody love, beauty and fertility?

Speaker 2: 49:36

because you don't have to think, yeah, no, listen, the auto-erasures embody different things and I did a video on the true essence of a child, of oshun. Um, you know, tune comes to bring, you know, love andlove, okay. And a tomb represents a lot of the womb of the woman, the creator, and every ceremony, every, I should say every initiation, every priest initiation, whether it be a Olorisha, santero or a Babalao, there is a trip to the river and that is because we got to go back to her waters. If we want to be reborn again, we got to go back to her waters, which represents the ambiotic fluid and that represents us going back to the womb, getting refreshed, getting cleansed. Ok, it's nice to know she can bring you love, she can bring you warm, it'll chew on bodies at all, and that's when we tap into those energies and she gives us that love, that tough love and also that self-love.

Speaker 1: 50:34

And I hear that definitely you can't. It can't be, it can't always be easy. Life itself is a challenge. Polarities it ebbs and flows, so it is.

Speaker 2: 50:42

Our lives are difficult and your reaches are here to help us get through that tough time so how?

Speaker 1: 50:47

how are god godparents chosen in this practice?

Speaker 2: 50:51

all right, I've done a video on that too, called choosing elders, called choosing elders man, and, and the thing is here I'm going to give you the three steps, I'm going to tell you how, I'm going to tell you how it should be done, and I'm going to give you the three criterias. Don't choose elders. Don't choose someone by their location, instead by their reputation. Don't look for titles, look for character. Okay, don't choose someone by their location, instead by their reputation. Don't look for titles, look for character. Don't look for someone that can speak the language but can speak the message of Ifa. Mr Mikey, brother, give me a little sound. I thought you were going to do a sound. All right. One more, all right.

Speaker 1: 51:32

I got you another one, needs his shots yeah, I'll get shot up now.

Speaker 2: 51:37

Hold on, all right. So the whole like don't. Don't choose elders by location, choose them by reputation, because sometimes we think, oh, they must be in nigeria, they'd be better, or they in cuba, they'd be better. Oh, they're down the block, they're in my city.

Speaker 2: 51:50

They must be the ones I need to go to you have to go where the where you are connected to. Okay, because would you? Would you trust a specialist that is for your life, that is, that might need to do surgery, and you're choosing a doctor? Would you say, well, he's down the street from me, he's down, he's five minutes down the street, down Fullerton Avenue in Chicago. Or you be like yo, there's a specialist up in New York that's specialized in this, has got a good background, has got good reviews. When it comes to your life and lifelong decisions, you go where the reputation is. It doesn't matter location. It doesn't matter if it's far away that you think it doesn't matter. Choose reputation, look at reviews, look at the community, things like that. Now, you don't look for titles, you's a chief. I don't care if a dude's got crowned this much money or this many years An ultra, I don't care if he's got this, he's got that. He can still be an asshole. Excuse my language.

Speaker 1: 52:38

He can still be an a-hole.

Speaker 2: 52:41

You know what I'm saying? He can still, it doesn't matter. He can be a legit priest, have an author, be a chief and still rob you from your money because you don't have character. Look for character, not titles. And the other one is don't look at him while he speaks Cuban or Ubin or you know. I want someone that can speak Cuban Spanish. No, look for someone not just speaking the language but speaks the message of Ifan, someone that can throw an old dude and look at the signs and speak the messages that need to be told for you. When you find those qualities and you take your time and you do your research and ask the community, you should be fine. Build a relationship. Go slow before you make any deep commitments.

Speaker 1: 53:23

That's peace right there. And with that being said, my brother Baba Victor, I appreciate you coming out tonight, my brother.

Speaker 2: 53:32

My pleasure man. I did a lot of work.

Speaker 1: 53:35

You are knowledgeable, very expressive, detailed, clear. You didn't do all that hoopla, all that extra talk when people be you know they be beating their chest and all this stuff. Nah, you kept it clear, concise and very beautiful. Man, I appreciate you for coming out here. Where can people find you at? Man, drop your handle on there and let the people know where they can find you.

Speaker 2: 53:59

I have a website gotbabaorg, like got milk. It's called gotbabaorg. All right, I just started. Since April, I started really posting things on TikTok, baba Victor. I think that's where you might have found me Starting a YouTube channel, baba Victor. But if you really wanted to find me or any kind of like focus session with me or anything, baba Victor has my bio, has all the links. I used to have an Instagram for Temple. We recently found my temple but it got hacked. Someone hacked it and then instagram locked me out. Not just that, man, I'm just gonna go with tic tac, I'll be all right leaving them.

Speaker 1: 54:39

Definitely, baba victor. I appreciate you, brother. Keep doing the great work. Man, we got to connect again.

Speaker 2: 54:44

You know they're gonna ask for you to come back um, there's so much more I want to talk about, so so much definitely man that's why I speak fast, because there's so much I want to get out nah, it's all good.

Speaker 1: 54:55

Nyp's the home, come yo. Anybody else that's listed. You got something to speak about? You bring it up on here. Papa victor here, if you have issues, reach out to him, your brother will take care of you. Don't forget to comment, like, share, subscribe.

Speaker 2: 55:08

My people, my people and we out.

Speaker 1: 55:13

Peace, my brother.

Speaker 2: 55:18

Thank you.