Shango and Obatalá: The Dual Powers of Lucumí Tradition Xenia Rodriguez

Thunder meets stillness, and the room changes. We sit down with two initiated practitioners whose lineages run from Matanzas and Guantánamo to Miami and Tampa to unpack what the Lukumi tradition actually teaches about Obatala and Shango—beyond aesthetics, myths, and social media shortcuts. What does it mean that Obatala “makes the head”? Why do we honor red and white for Shango? And how do the stories in Ifa guide behavior instead of excusing it?

Omar shares a family history that kept the religion alive through Cuba’s underground years and explains how practice flourished in the ’90s. He breaks down core ideas with clarity: Obatala as owner of heads, Oduduwa as giver of spirit, and the pataki that ties sobriety to compassion for difference. He also traces Shango’s arc through Odu—leaving chaos for kingship—and the famous exchange with Orunmila that shaped how divination works today, from Ifa’s 256 odu to Dilogún with the cowries.

Sineya brings the lived texture: the white year where Obatala judges conduct, the way Shango’s music lifts the floor, and how his children can be mistaken for ego when they’re really carrying joy. Together we get practical—naming key herbs for Obatala like siempreviva, paraíso, atiponlá, and bledo blanco; clarifying why anamu is taboo; and highlighting Shango’s hot plants and symbols like the double‑headed ax and lightning. We also address real misconceptions: you are not your orisha, paths matter (including Obatala Ayáguna), and discipline is the throughline.

Underneath it all is a call to bridge communities—Black American and Latino practitioners—through study, respect, and honest conversation. If you’ve been curious about Lukumi, Ifa, Obatala, or Shango; if you love drums, ethics, and real lineage; this one invites you to learn with care and leave with clarity. Subscribe, share with a friend who’s exploring ATRs, and drop a comment with the question you want us to tackle in part two.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Intros

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Peace world. How you doing? This is your brother Mikey Fever, another episode of NYP Talk Show. It's been a minute. Miss y'all, but I'm glad that I'm back. Tonight we got two special guests. We have Zaneya Rodriguez and Omar Senior. If I said it correctly, right? Let me know if I'm going to go. Sydney, yes. I got you. And we will be talking about Shango and Obatala, the dual powers of Locumi tradition, which is going to be a great show, very informative to our listeners and our viewers. Don't forget to comment, like, share, subscribe. We got super chat. Like the live, share it, let us know. You know, give some feedback on what's going on. And I'm gonna have our good guests take it away. Welcome to the platform, people.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

Appreciate you. Appreciate you for having us here in uh uh Bluetooth. We've been trying to do this for a while, yeah. Uh trying to set this up for a while. So we're happy that we can finally uh you know be here with you uh and your followers, and uh you know, we're here for whatever ever any questions that anybody may have.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Appreciate that, appreciate that. Appreciate that, appreciate that. It's been a while, yeah. Trying to reach you guys, I know you guys have been busy. It's been a busy month, I know, because this time of the year, there's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. So the chat is lighting up, they love you guys.

Year-End Lukumi Context

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Yeah, at the end, at the end of the year for I know for multiple practices, but especially for us um in Lukumi, it's it's a very crazy, crazy time because that's when a lot of the feast days come in, and you know, so a lot of people are like moving and doing, you know, they start doing the end of the year bowls and stuff like that. But but I am glad and happy that that you're giving me this opportunity. So I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Now it's all love. Anytime, listen, this platform is for the people, man. We we at NYP, we are about you know elevating, changing our narratives for the you know, for the whole diaspora of continental Africans, even the blacks, you know, black Americans on this on this continent as well. So we we call it edutainment, you know, to educate people, the proper education about different cultures. Not what you hear from these, you know, pale pastors that talk bad about this culture, but I I'm not gonna go into that right now. So so give us a history rundown. How did you guys get into this culture?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

You know, I'm gonna let my husband introduce himself since he is an olul.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

And um well, I was I was going to let you go first. Okay, well you can put the coin on it.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

We don't want to go first.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

No, all right. So my name is my name is actually Omar Pinate.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Peace.

SPEAKER_04 3:03

I was born, I was actually born in Jersey, and I grew up in Los Angeles, California. I am the

Omar’s Family Lineage And Early Life

SPEAKER_04 3:10

son of a Cuban mother and a Panamanian father.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Peace.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

And uh little bit of quick history. I grew up in the religion, uh, in the lukumi tradition of what we call ifa or regla de hocha, or lucumi or santeria, which are basically different terms that describe the very same thing. Okay, right? So santeria, lucumi, regla de hocha, ifa, all these things, all these terms in Cuba at least, are the very same thing, um, just different terms that are used intertwined. Um, and I grew up in it. By that I mean that my mother uh was initiated in Cuba when she was 14. Uh, she was initiated by my great-grandmother. So my great-grandmother in our family was the first to be initiated. My great-grandmother was initiated into the secrets of Ochun, um, in a in the town of uh Matanzas, which is near Havana, even though my great-grandmother was from Guantanamo. She was initiated first, she returned to Guantanamo, and my mother got sick at the age of 14, and so my great-grandmother initiated her, and then from there it just spread throughout my family. My grand, my great-grandmother uh pretty much initiated our entire family on my mother's side. So I grew up, you know, from as far back as I can remember, seeing Eshu, Ogun, Ochsi in the corner of the, you know, behind the door. You know, I've always heard the word obatala and chango and and o chun and yamaya. So I grew up with these words. In fact, when I grew up as a child, I thought that everybody would get cleansings with you know, with different animals and different herbs and different. I thought it was normal.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:10

It was, it was they would call me, I they'd come cleanse me real quick, and then they'd tell me to go play. So I thought it was normal until I got to a certain age and I started going to my friends' homes, and I was like, okay, wait a minute, we're we do something that not a lot of people do. Yeah, um, so I mean that's that's pretty much my history. Uh, I didn't come into this, I didn't start my practice or or what I would say my journey until my 30s. Right? I'm 50, I'm 52 now, but I didn't start my journey until my 30s.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

You don't go 50, bro.

SPEAKER_04 5:48

Yeah, no, I I get that, I get that a lot.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Word on the street, he's Illuminati, so you know.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Yeah, that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

I grew up asking one of my uncles who was initiated, and I asked him, you know, how come I wasn't a part of everything besides the cleansings? Uh, but how come I wasn't, you know, further into the into the religion? And he said, no, it doesn't work like that. It works when you need it. It's it's almost like a calling, right? And back in the day, I'm talking back in the 50s, you normally some it wasn't normal for people to be initiated. Right? It was it wasn't it was normal for people maybe to get readings,

From Underground To Open Practice In Cuba

SPEAKER_04 6:40

but to get initiated, that wasn't normal. There were two two things that normally had to happen for somebody to really get to the point where they would get initiated. One was you were you had some type of illness, right? Serious illness, or that you had some type of legal issue where you were facing prison time for a lot of years, and they they would do something, and maybe the orisha would say, Okay, you know what, for you to uh maybe not necessarily avoid prison, but maybe not get as many years as they're trying to give you, you have to crown, you have to be initiated. So those were two aspects. Everything changed in the 90s, at least in Cuba. Because prior to the to the to the 90s, uh this religion was very underground still in Cuba. It was very underground, it was illegal in most cases, um, not wanting to get too political, but we we already know, yeah. Yeah, it was cube, you couldn't practice openly, right? Um, those kids who or or anybody who was initiated and were doing their year in white, they would get chastised. They would lose their jobs at work. The the children, if they were initiated, they they would get chastised at work. I mean, at school, excuse me. Um things, for example, field trips, those children that were dressed in all white, they they wouldn't take them on field trips. So there was a lot of of um discrimination. But somehow, for some reason, in the 90s, it just it took off.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

That's beautiful, that's deep right there. I I always find it like odd how they ostracize something that's so culturally, that's so ingrained in culture, but due to colonialism and trying to appease people, you gotta hide it. But meanwhile, they practice your craft and they don't hide it. That's that's that's all that was always odd to me. That's always odd to me. And in your history, um, Sister Sinea.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Um, I was born in Cuba. Um, I came to Miami. I I always say I'm from Miami because every time I claim I'm from Cuba, the Cubans

Sineya’s Background And Crowning Stories

SPEAKER_00 9:05

are like, no, you're not, you're a gringa. So I say I'm from Miami. Um, but I came, I was born in La Havana. Um, I came to Miami when I was four years old. Um, my family wasn't as big into Lukumi into Regla de Ocha. Um, they were more into what we call epilitismo, what we call you know, Mayombe, which is palomayombe as many know it. Um, I had elders that were babalaos, like my mom's uncles and stuff like that. But other than initiations, I think I only had one aunt who's Ibae, she's no longer with us. But later on, my generation, that's when we started, you know, there was people that was crowning and stuff like that. Um I'm from Miami. I moved over here. We moved over here to Tampa about three years ago, but I am originally from from down there, from down south from Miami. So um, yes.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

She's she's trying to be politically correct.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

She, yeah, she's 305 to the death of me.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Um, I am crowned Obatala. Um, next year in a couple months in March, I'll be nine years crown obatala, or initiated as a child of Obatala. Um and that's pretty much it. Um I did my you didn't, babe.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

I am crowned, I too as ten years, I too am crowned Obatala. I've been crowned uh since for 15 years. Um, and I was initiated uh I'm initiated now 11 years as a Baba Lao.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

That's dope. Wow, that's a lot of response to be heavy as the head that wear the crown, huh?

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Okay, yeah, no, but not only do we share the same head or each other, we share the same mother in Ocha as well. So when me and him first met, it was kind of like, Are you stalking me? Is this like for real? For real, is this like the same year? Because you know, you don't see that it's not very common for for married couples to share the same mom and father, you know. So that that's pretty cool to share.

SPEAKER_04 11:30

Yeah, and our birthdays are our our birthdays are one day apart. Yeah, our old child birthdays are so I was initially I was initiated the 16th of March, and she was initiated on the uh the 17th of March.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Oh, that's wow. Yo, it's funny how you know the conversation we had prior to the show, right? It's like you know, correct me if I'm wrong, chat. Like Obadala's kind of similar to um Dumbala and Haitian Voodoo, and his day is March 17th. Yo, this is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Wow. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 12:06

But but but it's it's kind of it's kind of wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

So wow, it was it was cool when we met sharing that, and and to this day it still gets me emotional because I was like, it's very rare. I remember my my my godmother when I introduced her, my godmother was like, Oh my god, you guys share like pretty much like you know, that's just crazy. So it's a blessing, you know. It is it's

Obatala’s Role: Creator Of Heads

SPEAKER_00 12:30

a blessing, and um maferefung every day, and we're also born from the same as well. So, meaning both our godmothers, even though they're two different people, they're both crowned o chung as well. So, we have a lot of when it comes to religion, we have a lot of things that are very, very similar. So it's a blessing.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

That's powerful, right? So, I mean that the spirit when you when you are angry at one another, the spirit like hey, hey, hey, you better you better go fix that. Hey, slow soul that channel. Definitely, definitely, that's beautiful. So be that we are Obatala, right? Um, what what is the role of Obatala as the orisha of wisdom, purity, and creation?

SPEAKER_00 13:14

I'm gonna tell before my husband can speak. I think Obatala is everything. Um, not just, I don't say this just because he's my head or each other. I think Obatala is literally everything. He's the beginning, he's the end. Um without him, there is nothing, you know. You know, even when it comes to, you know, our initiation and our year and seven days of all white, he is the judge of of how we behave. You know, that's why when it comes to us children of our Batala, when we when we're doing our year, which is called Yawurahi, it's it's some of the hardest things that anybody could experience, he puts it to us to test us because that's he's the judge of though that year in seven days. Um you know, so to me, you know, even I always used to hear my elders say those words. He's the beginning and the end, he's everything, he's the f you know. But when I worked and I was able to actually see an initiation, I was like, wow, you know, he is without him, there's nothing, you know.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

So he gets birthed, like like you know, at this century, he's the H and I C. He's the like this is me.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

Right. Obatala plays Obatala is very important because he is the creator of all heads.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 14:44

He was the orisha who was given the who was instructed by Alodu Mare to create everyone's head, even though he wasn't. There are other orishas that played a part in creating humanity. For example, Odudua, right? Odudua, who is another orisha that is is known as the the orisha foon fun's or the orishas of white, because uh Obatala is the owner of white, everything that has to do with white cloth, uh you know, cotton, everything that's white. Um so that's where the the purity comes from. And so Obatala was given the the task of creating everyone's head, and that's why he's known as the owner of heads, right? And Oduduwa assisted him by giving everybody this uh a spirit.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

So you when you say creating heads, right? I mean, let me know if you could go you know deep into this as far as like the person's personality, like they auri, am I correct, something like that, or well it's more of the the physical it's it's almost like taking a piece of clay and he was in charge of molding everyone's head, so to physically making everyone's head where Odi would reside in. Oh, okay, okay. I gotta talk to Obatala, man. What's up with some people's head shapes, man? Like, yo, bro.

SPEAKER_04 16:25

It's interesting that you it's interesting that you mentioned that though, but there's a reason for that, right? Because Obatala being the the owner of all heads, there was there's a story, there's a pataki that re relates to a situation that Obatala got himself into, right? Where because he was drinking alcohol or or palm wine, I'm not sure too sure what they what they call it in Nigeria, but basically he was drinking alcohol, and so under this state, he created heads that weren't necessarily what he would have created had he been sober, and so that's why when there is a person

Pataki On Sobriety And Compassion

SPEAKER_04 17:10

that is born with some type of what we would call uh some type of deficiency or some type of handicap or something of that nature, we automatically say that they are children, direct children of Obatala. Right, and this is why this is why Obatala's children are not supposed to drink alcohol because of this particular story, right? In fact, children that are, for example, albinos, they are automatically children of Obatala. They're considered automatically children of Obatala, or any person that is born with some type of handicap, some type of illness, are are automatically uh considered children of Obatala.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

Oh, that's deep. I got I gotta get more into that, yo. You guys are giving me, I'm absorbing all this, like what? This is deep.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Yeah, it's it's and he's big in the sense, like that's why I say he's he's everything, because for those who don't have their head or each other pulled in a life or death situation where they have to rush the person to initiate, it's obatala who they crown, and nothing will happen to them because he's the father of all heads to balance you out. That's why to me, that's why I'd say without him, there's pretty much you know, nothing, you know, my fedefunat every single day, because you know, not only did he do what my husband mentioned, but he plays an important role in everyone's life, it doesn't matter what your head or is.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Got you, and that's dope because he's he's he's about the intelligence, and it sounds like from the story what you say, like you know, the liquid with the alcohol involved, it sounds like he's like that. Call him the DNA, the originator of everything.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

I think with him, there's no I when I describe Obatal, I think there's no middle ground, it's either, you know, it's it's that happens to his their children. His children, it's like, you know, we're either like have to live the way that he lived his good side, or some will live the bad

Shango’s Nature And Transformation

SPEAKER_00 19:30

that he lived. So that's pretty a cool thing of seeing. Like, I think children of Obatala are one of the very little orichas or children of orichas that are not the same. Like, for example, you see a lot of children of Ochoung, and they'll have certain things that are very similar. You have others, but Obatala's children here in our house, for example, we do ceremonies, and there's like six, seven children of Obatala, and none of us are the same. It's just so unique to see that energy, you know, being him here, yet we're all so different in our own ways. Like, I love seeing that, you know, especially with his children.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

That's dope. That's dope. That's that is so dope. So I got that. So we we know how Obatala is connected to the formation of humanity and the kind of cosmology of your reverse practices, and I mean IFA, right? We're gonna jump into the into the hot-headed one, Shango. What are the primary attributes and powers associated with Shango and Luke and me tradition? And to the listeners and viewers, we're gonna be going back and forth. So don't think that we we're leaving things out, we're just going back and forth between the two. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 20:42

So, so the qualities of Chango. First, Chang Go is the even though Obatalai is of utmost uh utmost importance, and Obatalai is senior to Chango, Chang Gou is considered the king of the religion. Right, he's the king of the religion. There are many ceremonies, many different types of initiations where he has to be present. Right, where this particular Orisha has to be present. But of course, some of the characteristics, and there are many, but some of the characteristics of Chango is his strong character. Right? His strong character, his uh tenacity or his tendency to make decisions without really thinking them out beforehand. His uh his tendency to speak without really thinking before, you know, without thinking of what you're going to say. So he tends to be a little harsh with the words.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Um I say ego problem.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

It could be, it could be, it could be an ego problem, it could be uh just harsh, just you know, wanting to get even if it's a positive message, it comes out in a certain way. These are certain characteristics. Something about um Chang Go is that Chango had a past, right? And all of these things are are in stories that are found in um in Ifa, right? In in Patakis or in stories that are found in Ifa. Um, I'm very close to this particular Orisha, even though I am initiated as a priest of Obatala, and my mother's O Chun, and I'm a Baba Lao, so I'm a priest of Urumila, but I'm very close to Chang Go because my odo of Ifa is Okanamegi, and that's the sign, that's the oddu where Chang Go came to to earth, came down, or came up if you if we think of the Yoruba uh understanding of things, right? And Chang Go prior to him being given this name, because Chang Go is is actually like a title, okay. Right? The the word Chango is actually like a title, and he had several names before becoming uh the king of Oyo, but in this particular Oddu, or Kanamei, there are stories that uh talk about him prior to him being a king and how you know his nature, he was very mischievous, he was very into all types of you know, everything that you could think of that was illegal. He was that that was Chango, you know, but he transitioned eventually. He transitioned to becoming the king of Oyo, so those things that were negative, he left behind, and it's very important to understand that we are human beings, we are not the orishus.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

And so, yo, I'm glad you said that, bro. Hold on, hold on. I gotta give you let me where my sound effects at let me see on the right one, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Because we got people, we got people out.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Let me tell you, I I I I've come across people from different practices, and some of them will take the attribute attributes, they'll

What An Odu Is And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_03 24:20

personify the orisha. I'm like this because it's a risha, I check, and that's wrong.

SPEAKER_04 24:25

No, no, no, no, you're just a drunk nigga, but anyway, yeah, no, we we are not the orishas, yeah. So the the stories are there to give us advice and for us to learn from those things that Chang Go went through before he became Chang Go the king of Oyo, right? And that's why, for example, and I'll just break down my oddu Okana Mei is an oddu that talks about transformation. I'll try to keep it as short as possible. Talks about transformation, transformation of what transformation of being a person that perhaps didn't have an organized life to one that is organized. Why? Because in that oddu, Chang Ghog went through that transformation from being a you know, from being a person that was into negative things into being somebody that was positive and becoming the king of Oyo. Um, of course, Chang Ghou was uh you know, he was into women, you know, because he represents masculinity, he's like one of the originals. Right, but again, why are the stories there? The story is not there to say, Oh, if I'm a child of Chang Go, I can be a womanizer, no, right? Because those stories are there to give an example of problems that were created from because of his um his character, his nature, right? Lack of discipline, right? That's why the Odung Okanamei says you have to be careful because that is an odo where sexually transmitted diseases is paramount.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

And before you go, before you continue, brother Omar, because you are dropping, like I'm just like I'm listening, absorbing all this. Like I heard this before, but to hear both of you guys go back and forth, it's like it's like a like a verbal textbook. You said Odu, right? Can you um if if possible, can you clarify or elaborate on what a odo is?

SPEAKER_04 26:33

So Odu Odu are the roughly translated are the signs of Ipha. Right? There are 256 Odu. Getting a little more technical, Odu was an actual deity. I'll put it that way. Odu is a deity. In fact, Odu is a female deity. And she was who kind of like gave Urumila that's that's why it I mean this gets deep, right? Because a lot of times they say that that the Babalao is is is is you know masculine or the or there's like this male dominance in Ifa. But a lot of people don't know that without Odu, who is female, there is no Ifa. Right? So Odu is is are the just to keep it simple, Odu's are the signs of Ifa, which there's 256 Odu.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Yeah, can I add one thing too? I know I from what I was told, like the IFA, it's that's like the

Divination: Orunmila, Drums, And The Trade

SPEAKER_03 28:10

actual the first computer language ever written because it's like the zeros and ones, right? The zeros and ones, and that's why I respectfully say you know, I'm gonna catch flak on this. It's not being sexist people, I'm just saying it comes like you know, it gives birth to things because you can get multiple, you know, correlation 256, like just like computer languages, zeros and ones, binaries, whatever. But I I I get the concept of calling it the woman. Now I see it like, oh wow, that is true. It's the matrix, not in a bad sense, but it is the matrix, yeah. Oh wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:43

Oh, do all do is is is female, and that's why, but then that's why without oddu present, there can be no babble, because this particip this specific deity, and I don't want to get into secrets now, but this specific deity has to be present for somebody to become a babble, but in in general sense, odo, when we say when I'm talking about odo, I'm talking about the the 256 odus of Ifa, which are the signs of Ifa.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Gotcha. That's dope, man. Oh, you got me all over the place. I'm like, oh man. So uh, what is the relationship between Shango and Divination and local meat practice?

SPEAKER_04 29:29

The relationship between Chango and Divination. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

Well here's a little story real quick. Chango actually used to be what Orumila is now. In other words, Orumila Chango used to be the diviner. He was originally given the the instruction or the task of being the diviner. Of doing everything that Urumila does. But Chango wasn't interested. He wanted a party. He was a party guy. He wanted to be, you know, the women, the drinking, that that was his thing. Especially music. Right? The bata drums. That was his thing. And Orumila was the musician, was the and so Chango traded with Orumila. He said, hey, listen, here's take this board that I do divine, you know, divination with, and take these tools and give me the drums and give me the music. And so there was there was a switch. And so when it comes to a divination, it's Orumila who does the divining. As well as Orishas, for example, legwa or Eshua Legwa, depending on on your lineage and your tradition.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

Is that African power? Seven African power stuff like that, if I'm correct. That's different. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

No, that's a little, that's a little different than what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 31:12

But there's a different, there's a different system that the Olarishas or that the Orishas use, which are the carry shells, the Dilogoon system. And then there's Ifa, which is the the system that is used by Rumila.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

I think they're very I think um Chango is very involved in the divination, especially through his children, because 90% of children of Chango are diviners in some way, some form, somehow, whether they are Babalaos, whether they are oriateses, whether they are spirititas, or even great ganguleros, you know, in in in Mayombe. Um, in my opinion, because Omar said everything, all the negative stuff about my father Chango, I'm gonna say the positive, right? Um Chango, I'm gonna speak because I'm not, you know, I gotta, I gotta, you know, I think Chango is on top of everything Omar mentioned, Chango is what brings us happiness. That's I think that's what it is. And for those who have had the blessing of being present in in Anya

Music, Joy, And Shango’s Children

SPEAKER_00 32:30

in our drummings, right? Every time they play for Chango, it's it's something that even if you don't know how to dance, you're dancing. That's his energy. That's and and his children also give you that energy, you know, when they walk in. And I know somebody in the chat said, ego. And yes, there is a lot of children of Chango who carry, unfortunately, this ego mentality, but many of them don't. They just, they're just, I feel that the shine that their father gives them, they can't help it, you know. And and sometimes to some people it might sound as an ego, right? But I think that's what Chango is. Chango, it's it's it's it's life. Chango is is music because he is, you know, that's that's what he is, the drums, the music, you know. In Cuba, for example, um, I've mentioned this a lot in my lives and in my polls. In Cuba, it is, you know, incorporating the orichas, incorporating infa into our music, it's something very, very normal over there, right? It's not something that it's like seeing, even those who are not practitioners are dancing to Lukumi music, right? And some of the greatest, you know, Salcedos out there in Cuba and producers are children of Chang Lou. And and to me, you know, I only speak this because that's the love of my life. And he was over here throwing shots and saying all these. So I was like, wait a minute now, you know, we gotta keep, we gotta balance it out. But I think they're him and his children are that our life, you know, our are that party. They're they're the when they get it's it's always about that. It's like even when Omar, it's the women, the drinking, you know, the love. Oh, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

You explain it.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

It doesn't sound right. No way. Oh, even with what you're saying that he he can't be drinking and stuff like that. You know, he got on TV.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Yeah, yeah. Before y'all go any further, as I think she would say, Casa Salado. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

He's the party, he's listening, and and and I want to mention before you know we dig deeper, because I know you mentioned, you know, prior to asking us the question of him and his demeanor, right? And and what Omar was mentioning on how he has this, you know, Chango has this image of being strong and and this attitude, you know. And I think that's the connection that him and Obatala have. That Obatala, a lot of people think that, you know, he was an oricha that was always very calm, but yet in many, many Patakins, many stories, he he was a lot stronger and had a worse demeanor than Chango. And I think that's the that's the beautiful connection um that it comes with these two orichas, you know, even with their children, you know. And I I posted a couple of weeks ago um something that a lot of a lawalawas, a lot of old Santeiros always say, you know, that children of we're the only ones that could calm them down, right? Because it's the the connection that they have. And there's a saying um in Lukumi that we say, No excito batala, meaning that one doesn't exist without the other, you know, and it's that connection that they have. And there's a patakin that that's born, the you know, that that that quote is born in, and I think it's beautiful, you know. To me, it's it's everything,

Plants Sacred To Obatala And Shango

SPEAKER_00 36:20

you know, and a lot of children of Obatala are demeanor because sometimes can come off like, oh, you know, like for example, I'm gonna put my example. My my elder, when she met me, they were so you know, desperate to to get me my Hanna Bif because she thought that I was a child of Chango because of how I was prior to crowning. You know, I was a person, like Omar mentioned, you know, some of the stuff that Chang Go does. I was that person, you know. Slapping people, yeah. I didn't care if you looked at me sideways, it was on and popping, you know, and you know, I'm very blessed that Obatala took my head and was no, we need to calm you down, you know. So I think it's a beautiful connection, and those two or eachas are are very, very important.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

That's dope. That's dope. I like that. So, uh question for this is for um Obatala. What plants or herbs are sacred to Obatala?

SPEAKER_04 37:16

She's a woman for that.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Some of I mean Obatala has a lot of plants. Um, one of the most important plants that we use not only in Lukumi or in initiations of Ocha, but also in Ifa and even in a peritijmu, um, it's a plant called Siempre Viva, right? That's a plant that is very, very big for Obatala. And it's uh it's uh Aleyo friendly, meaning it could be used for anything, especially to cover your ore and it calms you down, right? How do you say it in in in how you say English?

SPEAKER_04 37:55

In Yoruba, it's it's known as a way dun dun.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Okay, you have um another plant which is called paraíso, and I'm only gonna mention them in Spanish because that's when it comes to I my godchildren know my saying when it comes to brujeria. I only know me me English is very little.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

That's okay, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

But um, you have paraiso, which is a very, very important plant as well. Um, we use it a lot when it comes to our development, when it comes to epiritismo. Um Batala's energy is very, very present in our Epiritismo Cruzado in Cuba. Why? Because of many energies that probably you are aware of based on your you know your knowledge in voodoo, um, that have to do with the white cloth, that has to do a lot with his energy, right? So a lot of these plants that I'm mentioning, these plants can be used in all practices, right? You have Atipurla, that also, and that's the you that's the Yoruba name, Atipurla. Um, it belongs to Obatala, it belongs to Elewa. It is one of the five most important plants that has to be an initiation, right? You have Bledo Blanco, which has to be in the initiation. It's one of the five. Um, you have a lot of plants. I could sit here and mention a bunch of plants, um, but at least those that I'm mentioned that I mentioned right now are like the most important ones when it comes to Obatala. Even for the ones who are Aleyos who are children of Obatala, these are plants that you guys can use to do, you know, spiritual baths, to cleanse your home. Um, a very important plant that people need to have be careful with that Obatala does not like, and his children should not be touching it or should not have it in their homes unless they have, for example, initiations in other practices and they use it in other practices. It is called anamu, and it's a an a-n-u. And a lot of people confuse it with alamo, which belongs to Chango, and it's not,

Red And White: Meaning And Paths

SPEAKER_00 40:20

it ends with the U. That is a plant that Obatala cursed, so he does not like that particular plant. So that's a plant that we have to be very, very, very careful with. Um, I can't see the chat. I know there's people writing and asking questions, but I can't see the quite a few.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

Um we have Violet saying siempre viva.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Yeah, siempre viva is the first one that I mentioned. Um, that's an amazing plant. Um, some other plant that I mean for Chango, I could mention some plants. For Chango, you have animal, you have Rompe Saraway, which is very well known from songs of Hector Lavoe that sang many songs. You have Rompe Saraway, you have Siguaraya, belongs to Chango as well. Um, Chango's plants are very, very strong, which is kind of funny because Obatala's plants is like very easy plants that you could use and and they won't like affect you and give you rash. But then Chango plants is like they with everything, right? But at least the five ones that I mentioned for Obatala are the ones that have to be in all initiations are now the most important for him.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

Now we gotta get you guys back on here, man, because it's so much information I'm hearing, and again, and I I respect, like I said, all practices not to you know violate oaths, codes, and secrets. So I love how you guys keep it very clean and straightforward, right? Um, what is the significance of red and white color combination for Shango?

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Mmm, because I always see that I was always that comes from that saying that I said no about the lasting chango single bada. So oh what I'm lost so the saying that I mentioned that's where the the beef that beef comes from.

SPEAKER_04 42:12

So, and there's and I forget off the top of my head, I forget the particular oddu that it's born that it's manifested in, but just in short, chango's ileke, his his necklace in the the it for the most part in the lookum main tradition is red and white, right? And in the story, in this particular odo, it mentions that his ileke used to actually be completely red, but because of something that happened between him and if I'm not mistaken, I don't think it was Obatala, it was Ochan La. It was Ochan La, Chang, right? Ochan La is an Orisha who some people will say is Obatala female, and some people will say well, it's just a female orisha that also has to do with the white cloth and and everything that's white. Um, but for the most part, it's it was his it was his giving thanks to this particular orisha, and that's why his eleke, his necklace became red and white. So it's in honor of O Chan La.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

And our path, um, me and Omar's path, um, we we have Obatala Ayaguna, which many old people would say that it's there's a saying that they say that it's the jungle that's hidden, right? Um, our color is red and white, so our batala is red and white, and it has to do a lot, you know. Children of a yaguna maferefun chango every day in their lives, usually they have to be placed, you know, and given the same

Thunder, Axes, And Elements

SPEAKER_00 44:00

respect as one another.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Got you. It's it's so crazy. I came across people that, you know, from the Santa Ria local meat practice, if I'm saying it correctly, and they spoke about Shango to me, right? I think they did something, I don't well, they sat me down and they said we're gonna call something, and this and that, we're gonna find out what's that with you, right? And when I found out, I was like, nah, you bugging, bro. I don't believe that. And it was like it was a situation in my past life. I was not I was a wild individual, you know what I'm saying? But they uh my godmother, she called somebody from Cuba for me, and he came down from Cuba, and I remember he gave me this little thing, like a a stone that had like black and red beads on it. Oh, my book okay, yes, and it was so crazy what happened. I had this thing in my pocket. I went to this this public gathering, uh parade. I somehow lost that thing, and I'm I was flipping out. I'm like, damn, son, I lost at the parade. Lo and behold, I went home, fell asleep the next morning. I woke up, that thing was right under my pillow. I'm like, it wasn't here, bro. I was like, nah, I'm like, this thing wasn't here. I'm looking at I remember I called them, I'm like, yo, what the hell? Like, my heart was beating fast. I'm like, yo, this thing knows me. I kept it on me for a while. Like, you know, like and I was getting so many, like having so many dreams. And I remember at the house, you came over, I had like trailer, whatever, apples, whatever. And I remember just sitting down one day. I'm like, yo, why do I feel drunk? And I wasn't even drinking. And I'm like, cigars. Well, what the hell's going on in here? And I was like, you know what? I'm not messing with this stuff. Let me stick to my little coin. This is right here is a little different. I'm like, I'm feeling drunk for no reason. This is this is something different. It's like that's that Shango energy. I'm like, that is wild, yo.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Yeah, his yeah, his energy is is unique, and I and I think he he picks his kids very well, in my opinion. He picks them for for for the right reasons, you know. What is that called again? But children of Chango have very good hearts.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

And she looked, oh my god, they have very good hearts, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

And I I'm not I can't speak for everyone,

Common Misconceptions About Both Orishas

SPEAKER_00 46:20

you know, because I don't like there's one thing that I can't stand is those videos where they have, well, children of Obatala, and it's like, and now everybody thinks it's the same. I can't. I can't stand those videos. But you know, from my experience, you know, um, Chango is it's very he's very big in my life, very, very, very big in my life. And I've had the blessing of having a lot of children of Chango in my life, and they're they're they're the ones that I've had, and they could have real strong attitudes. Some could be the worst criminals to to being real nice, but their hearts it it's it's what defines them.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

It's it's I mean I met a few that were the children and like they're very given down to earth, but man, something else. I'm like, bro, you yo, you left it right there. Relax, bro. It's not that serious. Like, nah, go sit down somewhere, bro. But um, I like to know what is the the significance of the axe, if I'm saying correctly, and the lightning with Shango, the thunder or lightning. What is that?

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Well, the axe is one of his weapons, which that's what he you know he uses. That's one of his weapons. Each or each other has a weapon, you know, like for example, oh yeah, it's the eruke, which is the the you know, the um it's like uh a horse tail, right? And that's what she uses, and she and the machete as well, you know. So that's that's her biggest tools. Um Chango has those type of tools as well. The the X, the machete also he uses as well.

SPEAKER_04 48:05

And the lightning bolt is his um and what it's what describes him, right? Every every Orisha is associated with some type of element of nature.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

And so his element of nature is the lightning.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

It's the thunder, you know. He's he's the thunder, fire, you know, he's he's ready to to start anything.

SPEAKER_03 48:35

He can hit you from anywhere, like I bet lightning your ass over there, right? Thunder your ass. Yeah. All right, so why are the what are the common misunderstandings about um Shongo and Obadala in current and current understanding of culture in current times?

SPEAKER_04 48:55

So the I think the the misunderstanding, and this probably goes back to what we were talking about earlier, about how we as human beings are not the orishas. Right, and so I think a misunderstanding is trying to describe an individual based on who they're the child of, right, or a person um maybe misinterpreting the characteristics of the particular Risha that they are the child of, and thinking that they are supposed to um copy those characteristics, right? Chango, if you're a child of Chango, no, you're not supposed to, you know, be a womanizer, you're not supposed to be out in the streets, you're not supposed to be, you know, doing all of these these things that you think gives you a right to do it. You know, Chang Go is not telling you go out and be a cheater, you know, and that goes for for either the male or the female because obviously there are there are women who are children of Chango, you know, it doesn't give them the right, you know, to go out and cheat. That has nothing to do with it, you know. Same thing with the children of Ubatala. I think there's a misconception that you know we're oh, we're humble, we're we're passive, we're um you know

Paths, Temperament, And Truth-Telling

SPEAKER_04 50:30

patient. And many, many are the opposite. This one right here is not patient, so you know, and and exactly many of children of Obatala are opposite of what people think. You know, my mother, my mother is a child of Obatala, she was crowned Obatala, and my mother is like she'll blow up on you in a second, yeah. You know, she's always had a very strong character, and she's a in fact, she's a particular, she's a child, and Senia mentioned this earlier because there are different paths, um, different characteristics of Obatala. Even though Obatala is one orisha, he had different avatars, if you want to call it, if you want to call it that, because they manifested themselves at different times. So when they manifested themselves at different times, they had different characteristics, even though it's the same orisha, and so my mother's path of Obatala is one of the oldest, uh Chagarinyang is very old, very wise, you know, very frail. But that my mother's the total opposite of that, she's complete opposite.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

I want to say, get out of my head because I was about to ask you that. Are there times where both separate arisas could become one? I'm always sound like some kind of Dragon Ball Z cartoon right now, but somehow they come together as one. Is that possible?

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Does that happen? No, like not come as one. I think, for example, I think some people's, and I think this happens a lot once you initiate. And and for example, us in Lukumi that we have a mother and a father, a lot of the energies will reflect in us, you know, a lot of the energies will reflect in us. That's why a lot of people will say, Oh my god, you don't even look at like a child of this person for of this oritcha. And then when you tell them their their mother or you tell them their father, like, oh wow, you're this, you know. Um, a lot of people, I think one of the biggest misconceptions that they have with Chango and Obatala, one is from for me, from what I've seen, children of a Chango, when they're truly in love, they're not out there being, you know, doing what they gotta do. Like women and men, they're not, they are very, very loyal partners. And I think that's that's a huge misconception that a lot of people think that because Chang Gho had all these different women, he he married and you know, was with all these different women and stuff. No, they're his children are the complete opposite when it comes to love. And I think with Obatala, that a lot of people have that misconception that we are supposed to be calm. And a lot of a lawalawas, a lot of santeros that I've talked to, they always used to tell me, fear when a child of Obatala is calm. Because nine out of ten, we're always very like loud and we're always very, we're always ready to start. So they always used to say, when you see a child of Obatala calm, that is the energy of Obatala truly on them. So you need to fear them because people always think that you know the warriors have this strong demeanor, Chango has the strong demeanor. Aga you, there's nothing more stronger than Obatala.

SPEAKER_04 54:11

Here's and here's another and here's something else that a lot of people might not know. Obatala originally was the Orisha of war, and he traded that he traded that position with Ogun. So Obatala still has a lot of characteristics, and a lot of his paths have to do with going to war, going to battle. Um, one of the most well-known is our path of Obatala, which is uh Obatala Ayagun, which is the youngest of the Obatala paths, and he's very he's often confused with Chango, and that's why this particular Obatala has red in his in his ilekes, in his beads. It's mostly white, but he has red,

Bridging Communities And Part Two Tease

SPEAKER_04 55:00

but and he's associated with the color red because they used to confuse him with Chango. They didn't see a lot of times they would not know if it was Chango or if it was Obatala, and so that's where that characteristic sometimes comes from. Where we're like, you know, we're not always calm, we're not always, you know, cool.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

You know, we are we are gonna tell you how it is. That's that's one thing about children of Obatala. If you want honesty and you want like for them to tell you the truth, find you a child of Obatalah. Because they'll they'll sing it like they they singers in a course. Like they're they're they don't they're very, you know, and and a lot of I don't know if there's any um initiated, you know, priests on the live right now, but children of Obatala working with children of Obatala initiations, they're by the book. You know, they're very they won't put up with any BS. You know, if something's wrong, they're going to tell you, hey, this is wrong, you fix it. You know, it's very similar, like children of Yamaya, they do the same thing, they're by the book, they don't, they don't play that, you know. Not saying there's gonna be one or two that aren't good, but for the most part, 90%, they're they're very like they'll tell you how it is.

SPEAKER_03 56:22

No, definitely. I appreciate you guys for coming out, man. You got you both of you are like encyclopedias talking to both of you, and y'all so young, yeah, yeah, yeah. Relate to the to those who seeking to get on this path, which is beautiful. Continue doing your work. Thank you, stay humble, keep on educating. And as you're saying about being humble, it kind of reminds me of my late uncle. He always said, Yo, I'll go upside your head and hit you with a quote from the Bible after. You know what I'm saying? So it's it's like that, and it's it's so beautiful that you guys are on here doing your thing. You know, shout out to the shout out to the real people on TikTok that's listening. YouTube, Instagram, to all you fake practitioners out there. They're gonna catch you.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

Before we leave, I just wanna I just want to mention that I really appreciate this opportunity because it gives us it gives us the chance and it gives us the opportunity to try to um to to bring together communities, right? Because again, I was born in a Cuban household, but I was born here in the United States.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

Of course.

SPEAKER_04 57:34

I grew up thinking I was, you know, anybody who ever asked me, they were like, where you from? I'm like, I'm African-American, you know. My idea, I of just because I spoke Spanish was just like to me, that was like, Oh, I just happened to speak Spanish, but I'm I'm black. You know, but as I've grown in this practice, I've noticed the the separation or the the the the there's certain conflicts that exist, and we have to talk about it. We have to talk about the elephant globe. No, we do there are certain conflicts that exist between uh Latinos and Black Americans that are now coming into this. Yes, right, that's unfortunate. So I've always said since I've gotten on social media for uh you know TikTok for about three years. Um, I've always said that one of my main goals was to bridge that gap, right? Because me personally, I've always felt that I was I represented both. You know, I've always represented both. That that's to me, you know, I was a child growing up. I went to an African-American school, I didn't know any difference. I didn't know that there was a difference. Oh, Latino and black. No, I'm black. Um so, but now you know, now that this is more out in the open, more um, you know, I I don't know if you want to call it commercial, but a lot of people are talking more about you know ATRs and and whatnot. I'm trying to bridge the gap because there's a lot of issues, there's a lot of problems that we're that we're still seeing.

SPEAKER_03 59:12

Brother Omar, hold hold your thought right there because that's what I'm saying. Get out of my head, man. Because I was gonna ask those questions. I swear to god, I had it, I have it written down. I'm like, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask questions about that.

SPEAKER_02 59:22

We definitely gotta do a part two.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

No, we do have to do a part two because with the ATR, even down, like you said, EFA Center, Apollo, Haitian Voodoo. There are a lot of um misconceptions when people think people are trying to gatekeep culture. That's not the case. And again, we're not prejudiced. I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna keep a catch flag on this. We're not prejudiced, but before Europeans come to it come into this practice, you better know the history. You gotta know what you're dealing with. You gotta know what you're doing because you're not calling on Paul Bunyan, you're not calling on Spider Man, you're calling on you know, indigenous, you're calling on Tainos, you're calling on Africans. So study the culture, respect the people.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

try to profit off of it with that being said Omar my brother we gotta have a part two we gotta come we gotta come back yeah we got we gotta get together I appreciate you I appreciate you thank you thank you for having me thank you for joining um and and once again thank you I appreciate you all the time man peace and love people don't forget to comment like share subscribe you'll find them on tick tock and we out peace peace