Inside Hollywood’s Secretive Controlling Cult- Ishmael Bey & Sheik El

The gleaming buildings and polished promises are hard to ignore. Behind the glass, though, we found a machinery of control that starts with a smile and ends with silence: love bombing, “free” personality tests, and the gleam of celebrity proximity that pulls you into auditing, sec checks, and an endless ladder of courses. We break down how the e‑meter—legally labeled a nonmedical device—becomes a stage prop for suggestibility, how “ethics” turns into surveillance, and why “Clear” certificates don’t square with lived reality.

We dig into the deeper architecture: OT levels, engrams, and the Zenu cosmology that reframes personal struggle as spiritual infestation. When money runs dry, the Sea Org steps in with billion‑year contracts, $50 stipends, and a paramilitary cadence. Former insiders describe sleep deprivation, drills, and punishment details, while disconnection policies fracture families and isolate critics. We also trace the public parallels and pressure points: the calculated courtship of celebrities, how VIP treatment helps deflect scrutiny, reported intimidation of journalists and defectors, and the hard‑won tax‑exempt status built through aggressive tactics. The links to the Nation of Islam’s Dianetics adoption reveal how “mind tech” spread beyond Hollywood and reshaped power structures elsewhere.

If you’ve ever wondered how belief turns into leverage, or why pristine churches sit strangely empty, this conversation connects the dots—money, messaging, and mechanisms of control. We close with practical pathways out: support networks led by former members, literature on cult dynamics and deprogramming, and concrete steps to rebuild trust, housing, and work after leaving. Subscribe for more candid, sourced conversations that prioritize clarity over spectacle, and drop your thoughts—what part of this story do you want us to investigate next?

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening, Mission, And Guest Intros
• 3:40 Setting The Topic: Scientology
• 7:08 E‑Meter Basics And Auditing
• 12:20 Thetans, OT Levels, And Costs
• 18:05 Love Bombing And Recruitment Tactics
• 22:20 MKUltra Parallels And Handlers
• 26:55 Sleep Deprivation, Sec Checks, And Control
• 32:20 Zenu, Engrams, And The Bridge
• 38:05 “Clear” Claims And Medical Doubts
• 42:40 NOI Links, Dianetics Vs Scientology
• 49:20 Sea Org And Billion‑Year Contracts
• 54:30 Disconnection And Family Ruptures
• 58:30 Celebrity Centers And PR Shields
• 1:03:20 Lawsuits, Surveillance, And Intimidation
• 1:08:20 IRS Tactics And Tax‑Exempt Status

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 0:10

What is going on, everybody out there? It's Ron Brown LMT, the People's Fitness Professional, along with the brother Shaik Denim L today, this evening. We're gonna build, we're gonna build about the uh inside the secret, inside of Hollywood secret controlling cult. This is really all about um Scientology. I should have put Scientology up there, but I relied a little bit on um SEO and all this stuff I'm trying to figure out. Uh and and and uh but this is all about Scientology. Before we go into it, I gotta run this commercial. Hold on one second.

SPEAKER_00: 0:48

Peace family, welcome to NYP Talk Show. This is more than a podcast, it's a conscious platform rooted in truth and culture from the 5% nation, nation of Islam, Moorish movement, and was the group. Our mission is to reclaim our narrative and uplift the African diaspora with real stories and real conversations. Support us through Super Chat during live shows, donations on Catch App, GoFundMe, Patreon, or BuzzProut. And by refing our official merch, available on our website and right here on YouTube's merch show. Every dollar, every super chat, every hoodie builds the movement. This is NYP Talk Show.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37

Yo, back to it, back to it. That was that's the commercial, man. I'm gonna harass you guys about super chatting and you know donating to the brand. We're trying to grow this brand. Uh, we are not the ones to be like asking people, come on, donate, donate, donate. We're not those types of people. However, this is the business we're in, so we gotta do that. You know what I mean? So um uh thanks to uh Sheikh Denham L to come uh for coming in this evening. Ishmael Bay is in the building. Uh, we're just waiting for his mic to Mike camera to cut on. Um thank you, brothers, for coming here. You brothers have been friends from since knee high, right? You know what I mean? So so when I when I got you both on, man, I'm looking at it like you know, y'all brothers is family and all that. It's it's it's it's it's like to me, it's like um it's like history. It's like history, it's history. So 20 years from now, I can look back and say, yo, the guys were on the podcast. This they were talking about, you know what I'm saying? So um I really appreciate y'all both coming on the platform and uh rocking with the brand.

SPEAKER_05: 2:46

Thank you for looking, you know, thank you for having us here, man.

SPEAKER_04: 2:49

Indeed, indeed.

SPEAKER_03: 2:50

Absolutely. You know, yeah, your your invite invitation is definitely, you know, I mean, something that we hold in high honor. So thank you. You're welcome, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_04: 2:59

Oh, I got the God in the building. Peace, God, peace, God. You know how that is, brother McDebo. Exactly. What's going on, Debo? My man right there, man. Word, word. What's up, Madebo? Yeah, uh, so now we're we're talking about um, you know, the title says inside Hollywood's secret, secretive controlling cult. Um, like I said, I should have worded it and put Scientology in there. However, you know, I was trying something different. You know what I mean? Um, um, but uh this is basically what this is about, right? So let's let's talk about it. Kevin I Ali and I, we had a uh, you know, we were talking about um uh the equipment that they use in Scientology. Can you break that down and explain the equipment that uh they use in Scientology that the Nation of Islam uh adopted?

SPEAKER_05: 3:54

So the e-meter and all that type of stuff? Yeah. The e-meter and auditing, yeah. Um but before we get into that, I just want to say when I got this initial um invite, I thought you were gonna be actually talking about MK Ultra and some other things, but this is this is just as great. Okay. So yeah, the um the e-meter is a tool that they use um for auditing and to do other things. Um I mean, you know, uh go ahead, man. Go go ahead, man. Go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03: 4:34

First and foremost, brother Sheikh Denim L. Um, it is today your birthday.

SPEAKER_04: 4:42

Yes, happy birthday, happy birthday to the Sheikh Denim L. My brother birthday. Happy birthday.

SPEAKER_03: 4:48

That's the brother that I know is a brother that that would spend such an important day on behalf of the people. Right, always been that way, bro. Me knowing you since the 70s, you've always been that way. Fact. You don't, you don't you your your duty and your your your love and devotion to others is second to none, bro. So for you to share such a special day with us, I would be remiss without letting you know. Happy birthday. Very, very happy birthday to you, bro.

SPEAKER_05: 5:21

Thank you, brother. I appreciate you, man. You know, I love you, brother. You know, we've been through a lot, man. You know what I'm saying? You know, we family, man. We've been through a lot. I wish I wish JB was still here with us, man. I miss him, right?

SPEAKER_03: 5:30

Right, right. Third amigo. That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_05: 5:33

I miss him a lot, man. Um for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 5:36

Um go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 5:38

I was gonna just say, you know, when he asked about the the tools of Scientology, I just gotta laugh, man, because you know, we've been through it deeply, you know what I'm saying? So I'm gonna let you can go ahead and explain to him, man, because you know, you've taken the you've taken the helm and you ran with it. You you've taken it to another level. You know what I'm saying? To me, you are the expert. Now you're the expert on Scientology. You know, I'm learning from you. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, we sat down, we did, we did an amazing thing back in 2010 with that whole exposing the whole, you know, the whole situation. And then from there, I just dropped it. You just kept going. You know what I'm saying? And I'm proud of you, you've been a lot of places with that, man. And you know what I'm saying? So I'm here, I'm here for you. You know what I'm saying? I mean, share it. Let me know about them funny ass tools, man.

SPEAKER_03: 6:29

For sure, for sure. And and I would let anyone know in the public realm. I always defer to those who have more knowledge in depth than I do, and you're always at the top of that list. So I don't mind humbling myself to let people know what the real deal is. Oh, man, you know how we do many. You've written books about cults, literally. Yeah, you have gone through the church of Scientology, right? And was able to give in-depth information and made my job so much easier in order for me to do what I do. So I do defer to you in that particular realm. Praise God. Thank you, brother. Absolutely, I don't mind letting the world know that for sure. Um, the e-meter is a low-grade lie detector, right? So it's a tool that's used in Scientology in order to register in their mind if someone is telling the truth or not. Now, a couple of disclaimers with this. One is on every single e-meter, if you flip it over on the back, is a warning from the food and tobacco that this is not legitimate. Basically, it's a toy, don't take this seriously. It's a disclaimer. They went to court and was forced to put that on every e-meter. That this is not really a spiritual tool that you're trying to make it to be, right? So, so they lost the court case, they had to put it on every single e-meter, and you'll be able to see that disclaimer. Also, you can kind of fool it because if you have an e-meter in your hands and you physically grip it a little bit harder, it'll move the needle, right?

SPEAKER_04: 8:12

You know what? I tried that one day. I did that. Years ago, years ago, years ago, years ago. I just touched it. It was looks like so flimsy. I was like, uh, this ain't uh, and I just passed on it, I just left it there. I didn't even I just left it alone.

SPEAKER_03: 8:30

It's a tool to get you in because you might be walking down the street, or you know, they'll come in and just do a personality test, right? Coming in, brother, you know, do a personality test and right here on the street, and you'll do it, and like, oh, I like that, right? They'll start working you you know into it by inviting you to try this. Now, what they're measuring is what we talked about before, which was thetans. And if Shik Denim L can kind of go over what thetans are, just to kind of give us the reason of why they use this tool. What is a thetan, brother?

SPEAKER_05: 9:03

A thetan, okay, in in the church of Scientology, the Thetans are what we would call the secret society in a sense of Scientology. They are the ones, they're like an order, they're like a fraternal order within the order, right? And a thetan is a person who basically has a higher connection to the to the indivisible deity that they call theta. It's but it's actually an infinity, it's an infinity symbol. And within the thetans, they call them OTs, operating thetans, and they have levels of thetans. They have OT1, OT2, OT3, so on and so forth. And when these within these levels are lessons, and these lessons cost a lot of money. And a lot of times many people go in depth, but they use the e-meter and the other things to scam you in. Because see, right after that, right after you they give you the e-meter situation, and and you fought, if you fought for the Okie doke, you're gonna be sitting in there taking tests. You're gonna be you're gonna go in the building and they're gonna sit you down, you're gonna start doing these these different types of tests. Like it's all measuring. The test isn't it, they're they're not looking for intelligence, they're looking for a fool. I'm just gonna be playing, they're looking for foolish people that they can manipulate and operate. A person who does a person who lacks confidence in certain other certain other types of uh character, they they can see that they test for those things. Can you give me an example of the of the type of test that they would, you know, yeah, they'll they'll give you they'll give you thought to they'll give you thought tests, they'll they'll give you situation tests. Like I said, they'll sit you in a roll, they'll bring you in this room and they'll get and to test our time. It's like you got 30 minutes to answer these questions, you got 20 minutes to answer this part, and so on and so forth. And that's how it went. I got in, I went into the church of Scientology specifically to get my daughters out because their mother had taken them in and she was dating a Thetan, a OT3. Now, mind you, I hadn't had any knowledge of actually of what Scientology was. So I'm in South Africa. South Africa has the biggest, one of the biggest, if I think the biggest, Scientology um operating, you know, jurisdiction is in South Africa. It's in Africa, right? So I go in there and um I'm talking to people and they ask me if I'm an OT. They ask me if I'm a thing. They ask me, Are you are you a OT? And I'm like, what is an OT? Like, if you don't know, then you you're not one, but you sound like one. The way you're talking, the things you're saying, it sounds like theater work. And I'm saying to myself, bro, I'm dressed up like a Sufi, man. I got all white on, I got a white turban on and everything. I'm like, I'm a this is this is Sufi talk. At that moment, I realized what I was dealing with. I said, okay, so now I see where now I know where Ron L. Ron Hubbard has drawn these things from. 14th, 15th century, Middle East, so on and so forth. You know, uh Sufism specifically, mystics, oriental mystics, blah, blah, blah. The rest is history. The rest is history. I got in there, I I learned the information, then I went and used it against them. And I was already at death. So it just took me a couple months, and I was in and I was tearing them apart, man. And when I came home, and Brother Ishmael showed me a picture and asked me what it was, and I said, Man, that's funny, man. You asked me about this because I just left. You know, I just came home from Africa, and this is what I was up against. That's the Church of Scientology. It was in the laborers' meeting. They had CO and they had chairs reserved for the Church of Scientology in a laborers' meeting. That's right. So the operating Phaetons are the ones who actually they put out when they get to a certain level, they become what you will call, they become handlers. They also become recruits, they become recruiters, but they mostly become handlers because when they recruit, they'll handle you. It's just like the same thing in Hollywood, like with Tom Cruise and all of them, the ones who are part of Scientist, Dougie Fresh, Tom Cruise, Badu. Dougie Fresh? Yeah, Dougie Fresh was a part of Scientology at one point. I don't know if he's still a member, but at one point in time he was active.

SPEAKER_03: 13:25

He still is, yeah. MC Light.

unknown: 13:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 13:28

MC M C so his dad is Hamarambi, how Hamarambi J.

SPEAKER_05: 13:33

Right, right, right. Right, right. But that's either here, here you know, neither here nor there. But so they have a strong tie on dealing with wordplay. They're very good with wordplay. And what's the strongest play that they play on people is the mind, analytical and reactive. They work this, they work your mind. And they they'll you know what I'm saying, they talk about it, they'll tell you you you have a reactive mind. You know what I mean? Your mind judges, and and you open, you say, Yeah, you're you're right, you're right, you're right. You'll you'll fall into the game if you're not if you're not aware of what's happening. You're being hustled from every single angle. If you think they're sincere, you're gonna get taken.

SPEAKER_03: 14:21

And then what happens is it becomes a um a slow hypnosis taking place. Because initially, if this church of Scientology identifies you and invites you to come in, that's what they call the techniques called love bombing. They'll love bomb you. You want to come into this building? It's a beautiful building. You can start getting access to the technology. You want to do weekly meetings here? You can have weekly meetings here. You don't have to pay us a thing. No, this is charity. Come on in, bring your friends in. Y'all can all come in and use our big screen TVs and and do presentations because we're here for the community, we're here to help you, brother. See how smooth that is now. You're coming into a brand new building, just like in Los Angeles, the Nation of Islam has their full-time. We pull that up here on the show. It was full-time at the Church of Scientology. So you invite people into these brand new edifices, right? And they're able to enjoy the amenities. And before you know it, you're being love-bombed and brought in. Celebrities are coming in to rub shoulders with you, they're giving you food. Would you like to have food be served at your event? Right? All this stuff is coming in, but there's a price attached to this, facts, right? And that price is your soul, facts, ultimately. I'm sorry, please continue, brother.

SPEAKER_04: 15:42

Um, so the brother uh Kevin Ali asked um asked Brother Ishmael to look at the CIA People's Temple, Jim Jones, and Scientology symbols, and comment on the PSYOP connection.

SPEAKER_05: 15:57

I was just looking at that a couple of days early. No, it's funny he said that because I was just looking at the connection between Scientology, MK MK Ultra, and and the CIA. You know what I'm saying? And and there's a there's there's a tie between all of those things. L. Ryan Hubbard was tied into a lot of different, he knew a lot of different people. There's no actual hardcore information that the CIA and MK Ultra linked and merged, but when you when you there's six degrees of separation of everything and there's a connection and tie. You know what I'm saying? You just have to see it. But that that ties into why Scientology is in Hollywood along with MK Ultra, which controls Hollywood as well. Um, so you know, and MK Ultra deals with torture, it deals with splitting the personality. You know what I'm saying? It splits the personality of the entertainer. Yeah, I mean, you would Beyonce has Sasha Fierce, right? You know what I'm saying? Um Nicki Minaj had Roman, and you know, you know, so that when I go on stage, I become somebody else. Like all so there's a whole science behind all of that stuff, and they have handlers in Hollywood as well. Handlers. And if you get out of hand, they get rid of you. You get lost. Scientology does the same thing. People come up missing in Scientology. People come up missing. Am I right? Do people come up missing?

SPEAKER_02: 17:15

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05: 17:17

Your mic, I think your mic went off.

SPEAKER_04: 17:19

Your mic went off.

SPEAKER_03: 17:21

Absolutely, is what I was saying. Absolutely correct. Yeah, they come up missing, man.

SPEAKER_04: 17:27

So you say they split your mind, right?

SPEAKER_05: 17:30

That's MK Ultra. They also do that with they also do that with with um Scientology, too.

SPEAKER_04: 17:36

Now, can you give me any examples of how that's done?

SPEAKER_05: 17:39

It's done by no sleep, sleep deprivation, putting you under all types of strenuous testing and sleep deprivation and so on and so forth, man. There are people in Scientology who don't sleep for days, for days, because they're doing new technology, they're working a technology, they're getting Ish mentioned earlier about the hypnosis. You're slowly being pulled in, you know what I'm saying? You're slowly being pulled in, and when they take away your your senses, it's easy to put you or to cut you in half to separate personality. That's what the handler is for.

SPEAKER_03: 18:20

Also, also in Scientology, they they do what's called set checks. Sec checks is short. That's right. When they do security checks, they're probing your mind to find out what are the things that you're thinking about for set checks. Have you ever had an impure thought about L. Ron Hubbard? No, I haven't. It can tell if you're lying, right? Because if you're lying, you're gonna be triggering certain things. Have you ever thought about X, Y, and Z, this type of sexual lifestyle? Things like that. These are set checks that they do in order to curve you or direct you into a certain way of thinking.

SPEAKER_05: 18:56

See, okay as all cults do.

SPEAKER_04: 18:59

Wow, so so yeah, you go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 19:02

I was gonna say, as all cults do.

SPEAKER_04: 19:05

So the sec checks, right? So when you said the the uh that tool they use is a low-grade lie detector test. So if it's a low-grade lie detector test, how is it able to pick up things if it's if it's such low grade?

SPEAKER_05: 19:23

It picks up, it just picks up move, it just picks, it pick, it just it just operates off of it's not picking up your nervous system or anything like that. It's just picking when you touch it and you squeeze it or whatever, it's it's it's operating from strength and other things. It's not operating because it's actually picking up your nerve system and all that type of stuff. You gotta remember you're dealing with a hustle. You gotta remember L. Ron Hubbard was a hustler, man. He wrote, he wrote, he wrote science fiction stories. He wrote books, science fiction stories. So he took a science fiction story and turned it into real life. Indeed, somebody said Babylonian Sumerian culture is huge in Hollywood circles. Of course it is. They have deities in Hollywood. You have you have you have Moloch, you know what I'm saying? You have the deity Moloch, you have the the the the Baal deity, you have the Baphomet deity. Hollywood got Hollywood got gods, just like Scientology. Scientology got gods.

SPEAKER_04: 20:17

Now, now to take it back to the that equipment, um what what is it called again? The e-meter. The e-meter. So the e-meter, uh, it you said that you know anything can influence the e-meter, right? Like subtle, maybe subtle movement, uh, a little bit of shaking. So it's not really a lie detector test, it's more of like bro, it's a toy, brother.

SPEAKER_05: 20:40

It tells you right on the thing, it's a toy. Correct. It's a toy, but people don't understand.

SPEAKER_04: 20:50

No mean to cut your wisdom. No, you good. So so it's like, oh, you're shaking. Okay, so it's like it's fake, right? So they can take your mind wherever they want you to, whatever because you're gullible, because you're gullible, right? Oh, you do that thing moved over here, so that means your mind is looked like this. Oh, you know what? I never thought of it that way, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_03: 21:14

Yeah, and simultaneously, say they're sitting there trying to tell you to make this chapstick move. If you look at it and it don't move, it's something wrong with you. You're not quote unquote working the tech. See, so it makes it your fault, even if they give you a command and you're unable to do it. So it's a no-win situation. You need to pay more money because you're not in the right tune.

SPEAKER_05: 21:44

You are you have to get back on on course, see, and because you can't make that chapstick move, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna sit you in a room and set an ashtray in front of you, and we're gonna make you talk to that ashtray till it moves. This is real.

SPEAKER_03: 22:01

This this is what they do.

SPEAKER_04: 22:06

What okay? So now the ashtray. Okay, so let's go into once they have to after they manipulate you right with the e-meter, what's the next step?

SPEAKER_05: 22:19

Is the testing is to get you inside the building. Once they got you in the building, that's it. Everything else we're telling you is just the extras. The game, the the games they play, the e-meter using it to open up to open you up to their suggestion, they use a lot of suggestion.

SPEAKER_03: 22:36

And what Sheikh Danimel was saying was remember when he just said a few minutes ago that um his wife was dealing with an an e uh operate OT3. So you go up what's called the bridge and you go up to higher levels, right? So once you go to certain levels up this quote unquote bridge, that's when you start to get the reality of who they see is their higher power, right? Their most higher power or their galactic overlord name is Zenu. Zenu is this person that controls everything in this existence. This is their being who is an alien that lives in outer space.

SPEAKER_05: 23:21

Yeah, yeah. His name is spelled Z E N U. Put it in reverse. You next, yeah, you next. Yep, your ass is next. Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 23:36

They flipped it on you, I mean, it's the brother said, What is what is Farrakhan's cult connections?

SPEAKER_03: 23:46

Everybody knew that, bro. Um, there seems to be a constant affection between Farrakhan and Colts, right?

SPEAKER_05: 23:56

If we were Sun Young Moon, I remember Sun Young Moon.

SPEAKER_03: 24:00

Yeah, he was with right the the Moonies, right? The Moonies is a is a uh a cult out of Korea, yeah. Jim Jones, he had relations with them. Um Jim Jones, exactly. The people's temple is a cult, he had a relationship with them, right? So there's been a track record, and again, minister Farrakhan was eyeing this relationship with Scientology for over 30 years, although the public didn't know about it. He was brought on by a minister Ulysses, who told him he left the nation of Islam and became a member of the Church of Scientology, and then told Farrakhan about it, and then Farrakhan always wanted to merge this relationship, and like I said, it cooked for about 30 years before he decided to make his move.

SPEAKER_05: 24:45

And he prepared y'all for it, and he prepares you, brother Ron. He prepared you if you go back and listen to his speeches. He told you one day a new book is gonna come. There will be a new book. He told you this 30 years earlier. There will be a new book that's gonna come, and that book was Dianetics. There sure was a new book, and it's called Dianetics. So he was like he said, he was simmering this for 30 years, man. He was interested. Matter of fact, you know what? Warve Dean, I think Warvean introduced him to Scientology in 70 in 70 something. I think it was Warve Dean. If I'm not mistaken, I think Warve Dean had a connection to Scientology as well. Okay, because remember when Warve Dean started teaching, he started doing a whole series on the mind. If you go back and look at Warve Dean, you would you go back and look, you you would see he was doing a whole thing on the mind. I think he had a connection somewhere somewhere as well, or some something. But I know that uh Farrakhan had a connection directly for over 30-something years.

SPEAKER_04: 25:53

Okay, so I want to ask a question. What happens inside science Scientology when a member can't afford the next level?

SPEAKER_05: 26:00

They go crazy.

SPEAKER_03: 26:09

Yeah, there's a couple things you can do. You can actually sign your life over to Scientology.

SPEAKER_05: 26:15

Listen, yeah, listen.

SPEAKER_03: 26:17

I was gonna bring that up. Yep, you can sign your life over to Scientology and become a full-time Scientologist. You can join what's called the C org. And if you join the C org, they'll pay you about$50 a week. You can get your lessons, unlimited lessons, and it pays for your Scientology. Now, you find examples of members who are in the C org. You'll find there was a reality star. Her name was her name is uh Mimi False.

SPEAKER_04: 26:51

Oh, yeah, surgery and all that. Love and hip hop, yes, love and hip hop face like 10 times. This is crazy because yo, I always said, What is going on with this woman? Like her mind is just now. You know, now you know you saw Scientology, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 27:12

Yeah, well, I'm gonna make knowledge born, and we'll be able to pull this up if you'd like to. Mimi was kicked out of the church of Scientology at the age of 13. She was kicked out on the street. Her mother was in this part of the Scientology that we just talked about, the C org. Her mother was a member of the C org, and they wanted Mimi to sign a billion-year contract, sign her life over to Scientology, and she refused to do that. She didn't feel comfortable signing her life over to an organization. So her mother said, either sign this contract or you're out on the street, and she was kicked out in Hollywood, California. There's a big blue building. She was kicked out to go live on her own at the age of 13. So imagine the damage that was being done when you're 13, kicked out on the street by your own mother who's in this cult, and now you have to fend for yourself.

SPEAKER_05: 28:14

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 28:16

Crazy, man. Crazy. So I just want to let you know that this is something that they do offer if you're unable to pay, quote unquote, for the lessons.

SPEAKER_04: 28:25

So, what's the real reason behind the aggressive fundraising and expensive courses? Get wealthy. So, who's at the top of all of this?

SPEAKER_05: 28:35

Is Michabich still around? Him. The little the little the little the little the little leprechaun cat. Miskovich, whatever his name is. David, David Miscavige. Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 28:48

That sounds Jewish. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah, he's the person at the top of Scientology.

SPEAKER_04: 28:58

David Miskavitch.

SPEAKER_03: 28:59

Yeah, he's the rich guy. Because nobody else is rich. And Scientology is a pay as you go religion. So as you get up, they expect for you to dig deeper. If you don't have it, they have experts that can go maximize your credit card, have techniques to where you can go past your max, where they'll front you more money so that you can pay for more lessons.

SPEAKER_05: 29:24

So, what are in these lessons? Nothing. Some straight bullshit. If you read the book of diagnetics, that's all it is. It's all of that. I mean, L. Ron Hubbard wrote a lot of books. He wrote a lot of technology, but it's all BS. I read a couple of. I've read like maybe 10 or 11, like 10 or 11 of them. And it's all it's all nonsense. I'm I'm laughing at it. I'm like, yo, this guy really like the people are people are dumb. People really are very gullible, man. You know what I'm saying? Especially when you and he and see, he chose a particular people. Particular demographics of people to come to and to deal with. You know what I'm saying? Because see, when he when he created Scientology, he created Scientology in the 50s and he put it right in Hollywood. It wasn't meant for poor people anyway. You understand what I'm saying? It wasn't meant for the common people, it was meant for exactly where it was at for Hollywood and all those people engrouped and so on and so forth. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03: 30:29

So yeah, and what we've been describing, we've been describing their deity is an alien in outer space. L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer. So this is all things that's going on in his mind. When he wrote this book, Dianetics, this is one of the earlier versions of it. You can tell by the tatteredness. But when he wrote this in 1950, he's using his creativity as a science fiction writer. So there is no end game, right? He's telling you that in outer space, because this is at that time, they have identical B-52s flying in outer space. He's taking them on a fantasy ride. There is no end game.

unknown: 31:14

Right?

SPEAKER_05: 31:19

And it hasn't been medically or scientifically um proven to be right and exact. In any form, in any form, it's been vetted, it's been vetted that way. It's not scientifically valid, it's not medically valid valid.

SPEAKER_03: 31:35

So and people were challenging his claims in real time. Back in the 50s, once you get to a certain level, it's called clear. Once you become a clear, right? Right. Go ahead, go ahead, bro. Go ahead, go ahead. Talk to me.

SPEAKER_04: 31:51

So the first time I heard about a clear was whenever me and Kevin Ali did that podcast. I believe that was what Wednesday? I think that was Wednesday, Kevin Ali. If you're still on, I learned about what a clear was on that podcast. So a clear, explain what the clear is, and um what is the uh what are the requirements to become a clear?

SPEAKER_05: 32:21

Well, well, you know, a clear is a person who no longer have any types of vices or any types of sicknesses or any type of health issues or whatever, because the technology is totally held as person. So if you wear glasses, you don't have to wear glasses no more, he can fully see. If he was deaf, he can hear now. If he couldn't smell, he can smell. If he couldn't walk, if he if he was crippled, if he was paraplegic, now he can walk.

SPEAKER_02: 32:47

Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_04: 32:51

So have you met any clears before?

SPEAKER_05: 32:55

Neither were you. I've met people who claim to be clears.

SPEAKER_04: 33:01

Okay. And then then so what were they like? Were they like there was were they clear?

SPEAKER_05: 33:10

No, they wasn't clear, they weren't clear. How you how you coughing and you how you coughing and and and doing all types of stuff and you're supposed to be clear? You guys and you got sickness. But you're telling me you clear, but you got pink eye. Or you telling me you clear and you limping. Your knees, your knees is messed up, or so you know like nobody is clear, brother. That's a game. That's a game to sell the technology.

SPEAKER_04: 33:40

I just saw a brother from the nation of Islam post somebody saying that they they have a certificate. How did the nation how is the nation of Islam, or from what I know now, aka the final call, are buying into this. Is it a money game? Do you think you brothers think it's a money thing?

SPEAKER_05: 34:04

Brother, they have a leader. Their leader bought into it and and put them in it. He gets a cut of everything that happens. He's a film, he's a Phil representative. Very kind is making money off of that, man. Tony Muhammad making money off of it, they're making money. They're making money, man. But the followers are but the followers ain't making no money. They're getting bombarded. And since when is the supreme wisdom not enough?

SPEAKER_03: 34:48

It was looking all the three. Yeah, indeed, go ahead. OJ Simpson. Let's see what OJ has to say, shall we?

SPEAKER_01: 35:06

At one point I I felt I had reached the state of clear, right?

SPEAKER_02: 35:10

Which is what?

SPEAKER_01: 35:11

Which is a in in Scientology, I guess, is an area where you kind of you're one with all, see all, know all. At least that's the way I interpreted it. You got to that state? I thought I had. Or had from time to time reached that state, especially as an athlete. Sometimes you just feel that you're in total control of your surroundings and can deliberately wheat around you to happen. And uh, and I call, you know, another Scientology place, the local place where I was first here in LA. Uh I even tried to get hold of Mr. Hubbard at one point years ago. And uh then I learned there was nowhere to go from Claire.

SPEAKER_02: 35:50

But at the same time, at the same time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 35:53

So, what happens after Claire? Essentially, what I found out is that there's nothing.

SPEAKER_03: 35:59

There's no did that answer the question.

SPEAKER_04: 36:05

Got you. So there's absolutely nothing after Claire, so there's no perks or anything like that. There's no heaven, brother. There's no heaven. Wow, okay. So now explain to me the Thetan, the Thetan thing. Like, how do you climb the ranks?

SPEAKER_05: 36:26

You have to go, you have to become a Thetan, and you become a Thaetan by by completing a certain amount of technology, a certain amount of technology, and have the have the money basically to transfer into the Thaetan studies, pretty much. It's all money.

SPEAKER_04: 36:44

This is some 10%. This very 10%. This is next level 10%.

SPEAKER_03: 36:50

Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, very 10%. And with the with the Thetans, the purpose of you even connecting yourself to that machine we talked about is to get the alien beings off your body, right? Right, yeah, you said that the engrams, the engrams exactly with these engrams that stick to your body, the engram gets them off. That's what auditing is supposed to do, get these engrams off of your body, right? Because these these are the things that are dragging you down, right? Right. Can you explain that part of it?

SPEAKER_05: 37:23

Yeah, the engrams, the engrams are the things that you were born with, pretty much. Not born with, but like this, the story of Zeno is Zenu blew up, he blew up um some other aliens or something. He put them around a volcano and blew them all up, and those spirits, the spirits, things that he blew up, the spirits inhabited the earth, and it's these very spirits that has attached themselves to the human beings. And the human beings have engrams, and they have a thing called just engrams can re-stimulate you. It's called stimulation or re-stimulation. You get an engram and it'll re-stimulate you out of your character, or you know, you may bug out, have a you know, have a have a situation happen where you may, you know, you may snap and get angry or something, and you'll blame it on an engram. That they'll blame it on an engram, or you have you have in grams, you got to go back to the origin of your engrams and so on, and they use auditing to do it. So they'll tell you what's the most worst thing that's happened to you. So, what you're doing is you're giving up all your secrets, right? Things that happen to you, all you these different types of little secrets, because you trust the organization. But what happens is if you give up too much of your secrets, those secrets are used to blackmail you later on. You'll be blackmailed because blackmail is a part of Scientology, too.

SPEAKER_04: 38:41

So that's why they're able to maintain financial control over the members.

SPEAKER_05: 38:46

Something like that. Same thing with Hollywood, same thing with Hollywood. Once they catch you on film, they they got that's what that's what Puff was doing, right? That's how Puff was doing certain things, and people before him was doing things the same way. Okay, brother Alma Lake, what's going on, brother? Peace.

SPEAKER_04: 39:06

Now, um what are the biggest accusations from former members? Uh uh, what what are the biggest accusations former members make about Scientology's disciplinary system?

SPEAKER_03: 39:20

Ish well they've done some they have um compounds, you know, where they actually go through forms of torture, right? You heard the sheikh talking about sleep deprivation, or they'll put a pole in the middle of this room and have you march around this pole. Try doing that for one hour, two hours, five hours, ten hours in a day, just marching around in circles, or you'll be able to see drones that fly over these places and get pictures of them outside doing rigorous labor, right? Almost slave-like, or they'll put you in rooms naked or just down to your skivmies, right? So they have these things, these forms of torture or punishments if you get out of line. These aren't just regular low-level Scientologists we're talking about the higher executives that get dragged and put into these facilities, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 40:19

Straight up, they don't discriminate.

SPEAKER_03: 40:21

No, not at all. You have reports of of David Meskevich himself slapping people up, right? You know, so yeah, these are things that take place. Forced abortions, women who may get pregnant and forced to give abortions. You have um Masterson right now in Hollywood fighting charges of forced uh fast assault sa on women, right? Yeah, so this, yeah, this is nothing to play with, and these are all forms of control, brother, to answer your question.

SPEAKER_04: 40:55

Okay, um, what role do ethics officers play in monitoring controlling members?

SPEAKER_05: 41:05

Ethics, ethics officers. You you you heard you just heard everything we said, right? Yeah. Do it sound ethical? No. Okay. You just answered your own question, man.

SPEAKER_04: 41:19

Well, I mean, the ethic officers, I mean, so I'm assuming there's something called ethic officers within the uh uh uh organizational cult. So are are they you know it's like the military, right?

SPEAKER_05: 41:36

Right. The ethics officers exist, but they exist only as bookwork. There is no ethics once you're in, it's control, it's pure control. There's no ethics involved.

SPEAKER_03: 41:55

And just keep in mind the last time I was here, I played an audio of L. Ron Hubbard saying the only way that you can control people are is to lie to them. You remember that audio when I dropped that? If not, I do have it on standby.

SPEAKER_04: 42:09

Yeah, you did, you did. Yeah, yeah, I think that was the first podcast we did.

SPEAKER_03: 42:14

It was the first podcast we did, right? Yeah, yeah. Think about that quote. The only way you can control people is to lie to them. Is that ethical? That's the founder, right? That's the founder of the quote unquote religion, right? So it becomes a form of control to lie to people because that's a command given by the originator.

SPEAKER_04: 42:43

Okay, uh, what is the C org?

SPEAKER_05: 42:46

And you just mentioned that the C org, remember about 10,000 years of giving your life? The C org, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 42:54

Yeah, that's what Mimi's mother was. She was the C org member that we just discussed, right?

SPEAKER_04: 42:59

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03: 43:00

Very good question.

SPEAKER_04: 43:02

Uh, and why now and why do former members call it a paramilitary organization? Do you know anything about that?

SPEAKER_05: 43:12

Yeah, I mean, because it's it's ships, and the way it's designed, it's designed from a from a paramilitary type of um condition. It's the sea org. They have uh a I'm not gonna call it a military, but you know what I'm saying? It's designed in a militaristic process. You know what I'm saying? Like they got captains, lieutenants, and all that type of stuff, but it's not necessarily a military, like the army.

SPEAKER_03: 43:47

And he used to walk around even in Scientology, he'll walk around looking like a fat Captain Crunch looking ass nigga. So he would walk around and have this kind of military bearing instruction within Scientology, right?

SPEAKER_05: 44:00

Right. And we don't even we don't even really know if he was really in the Navy. We don't really even know. That's what he said. We can't, I can't find the records. I couldn't find him back in the days. I look to see if his name was in any any naval records or anything like that. I think he was lying, man. I think the niggas was, I think he's still, I think it was stolen valid. I would not be surprised, yeah. You know what I'm saying? He knows because we damn we damn shows on ships. We we was on ships, right now.

SPEAKER_04: 44:32

Um, why do some ex-members claim they signed a billionaire uh a billion-year contract?

SPEAKER_03: 44:39

You did already explain that's the org the c org, all right and just just to put it in perspective, that's a prerequisite of that part of Scientology, so it's separate parts, separate pockets of Scientology. That C org is the one where you signed the billion-year contract, right? And they get the unlimited lessons for free, they're the ones that get paid the$50 a week. That's the that's the C org organization.

SPEAKER_04: 45:07

So I sell my my life away for for billion years, whatever, right? And I get$50 a week and unlimited and unlimited lessons, which have not much value.

SPEAKER_05: 45:20

So you get them and you get them for and you get them and you get them for lifetimes, brother. What they're talking is incarnations and reincarnation. They're talking about incarnate. So you're gonna your soul when it incarnates, is gonna belong to them. Every time it incarnates for the next 10,000 years, you're gonna be on this, you're gonna be in the sea org.

SPEAKER_03: 45:38

And we just showed you an example of you willing to throw away your own child right for the sea org. We gave you an example in real time, right?

SPEAKER_04: 45:49

Now, uh, can the brothers explain if there's any difference between Scientology and Dianetics? People in the final call tried to make this distinction uh justified being okay for them to do it.

SPEAKER_05: 46:03

No, there isn't any difference, it's all the same. Dianetics comes from Scientology. Scientology is dianetics, it's all it's there is no difference, bro.

SPEAKER_02: 46:14

I didn't see a difference.

SPEAKER_03: 46:16

You see a difference, no, there's there's no difference at all, and let's just put put it on the table of why it seemed this way. Originally, it was called Dianetics, and then L. Ron Hubbard lost the copyright. Yeah, so when he lost the trademark in 1952, he started Scientology because he lost the trademark to Dianetics, he then brought back the rights to Dianetics once it was available, and that's how you were able to get both entities. Okay, so it's the same thing.

unknown: 47:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_03: 47:01

Now, the Nation of Islam final call version lie and say that they only deal with dianetics and not Scientology. But I showed you in real time when I was on here, if you go and anyone can go right now, pull up black Scientologists on Facebook, and you'll find a whole shipload of Nation of Islam members. If you just pull up Black Scientologists group on Facebook, and you can see it for yourself right now.

SPEAKER_04: 47:34

Interesting. Okay, let's go into uh what is the exact what exactly is disconnection and why are families torn apart over it? You ever heard of that?

SPEAKER_03: 47:49

The disconnection is what we were just talking about in Mimi's situation. She was forced to disconnect because you have to make a choice. If you what's called an SP or suppressive person, you cannot be in the fold of Scientology. So you're forced to break away from your family, all of your friends, anyone that's dealing with Scientology, you're commanded to break away. Okay, that's what disconnection is.

SPEAKER_04: 48:20

Are members pressured or coerced to into discon disconnecting from critics?

SPEAKER_05: 48:26

Yes, definitely. That's the thing. They don't want criticism. They don't want any type of critiquing or criticism at all.

SPEAKER_03: 48:37

That's dangerous for them. And Farrakhan has used disconnection with how he set up his structure of the nation of Islam. You cannot be a laborer in the nation of Islam final call version, unless you submit to Dianetics, aka Scientology. It is a prerequisite, it is a prerequisite. Did I finally get a bomb? Did I get a bomb drop? You can get a couple bombs, you're gonna get a couple bombs in the show, brother. Yeah, so that's what disconnection is. It's a form of control and it's a command giving within Scientology.

SPEAKER_05: 49:17

Whoa, and with and also, brother, within Farrakhan's ranks, there is a handler order as well. There's brothers handling other brothers and sisters who can't get right with the Scientology.

SPEAKER_02: 49:35

Oh man. All right. Uh, you you want me to share the screen?

SPEAKER_04: 49:40

Ish?

SPEAKER_03: 49:43

No, but I I didn't have uh anything else else to share unless I mean I I got my my PowerPoint on standby, but no, I'm I'm I'm good. Whatever you want to go through. I'm good.

SPEAKER_04: 49:51

No, no, no, correct. Uh so well, this is uh basically self-explanatory, but uh why does Scientology prior prior prioritize celebrity recruitment for the money, basically, right?

SPEAKER_05: 50:03

And it was the foundation of Scientology's beginnings, it was Hollywood. He put the first Scientology operation in the hills of Hollywood in the early 50s at the same time, Hollywood, Walt Disney, and Werner Von Braun was getting together to push their rocket ship shit and they science stories through Walt Disney World because you know, later on in the 60s, we went to the moon. But that was all a preparation from the 50s, you know what I'm saying? From from Werner from Werner Von Braun in the scientific show in Walt Disney. They said all of that, all of that shit was set. Like it's a just a big connection here. Like it's a lot of stuff going on with all of this stuff, man. And L. Ron Hubbard was in the mix.

SPEAKER_03: 50:50

Yeah, and that's that's the proper bait. You just heard OJ Simpson talking about in his circles, right? He was going through it's kind of like the in-crowd, right? If you want to bring people in, you have celebrities endorse whatever it is that you want to sell. It's no different, right? Oh, is that person wear Nike? I'm gonna wear Nike. That person does same thing with with quote-unquote Scientology.

SPEAKER_04: 51:11

Facts, yep. Okay, what benefits do celebrity members receive that ordinary members do not?

SPEAKER_03: 51:21

You have an aspect of Scientology. If you are a celebrity, you get access to what's called the celebrity center. When you get access to the celebrity center, you get catered to more, people treat you differently, they have swanky parties, you know, they they they love bomb you more if you're quote unquote in the celebrity circles, right? So that's what the difference is. Okay, and they pay more.

SPEAKER_04: 51:47

Yeah. How does the how do how does the organization use celebrities to influence oh well? How does the how do how does the organization use celebrity influence to deflect criticism?

SPEAKER_05: 52:04

Well, you know, if you if you've been watching the whole history, it's a lot of it's now it's a lot of celebrities that are critiquing Scientology itself as former members. They're coming out and making statements. So eventually it can't it can't stand the water. So it's gonna, it's gonna, the holes are already being put in it, it's gonna sink sooner or later. But the people who are a part of it themselves are coming forward and talking about it, man.

SPEAKER_03: 52:32

And and if you notice, something is dead when there's no motion, right? If you look at a Scientology building, they're beautiful buildings, they buy great architecture, they create and make beautiful architecture, they have real estate portfolios, and the buildings are empty. The buildings are empty because it's the real estate is where they're making their money at. There's nobody in there because people realize it's a hustle. So you have a very select few people, maybe about four or five people on staff in this whole big old building, and ain't nobody walking in, and ain't nobody walking out because it's dead, right? So that's gonna be an indication. If it was really popping, the place would be jumping. The places are beautiful, but they're empty, so it's nothing but a museum, bro. It's nothing but a museum. That's it. This room with a room dedicated to Ron Hubbard.

SPEAKER_04: 53:29

Eyes Wide Shut, highly recommended. Uh highly recommend that's the movie.

SPEAKER_05: 53:34

Eyes Wide Shut is the movie. That was a movie with Tom Hank with Tom Cruise and uh what's her name in it, man? It was basically about Hollywood, Hollywood, the Illuminati rituals. You know, they cut 24 seconds of that movie, man. There was a 24-second cut from that movie that they didn't put on the mainstream theater because it was a child sacrifice.

SPEAKER_04: 53:54

Okay, okay. All right, I gotta find that movie. Where's where is that on on Netflix? Yeah, you can find it anywhere.

SPEAKER_03: 54:02

And that, yeah, that's that's when he was married to um Nicole Kibben was her name.

SPEAKER_05: 54:07

Yeah, Nicole Kippen. And you gotta check her family, you gotta check her family's her family's history, right?

SPEAKER_03: 54:14

Right. She broke away from all of that.

SPEAKER_04: 54:16

Yo, uh uh, Ben, you didn't miss this. You didn't miss this. All you gotta do is rewind, brother. All you gotta do is rewind. All right. Um, let me go into this next one. Why uh uh, so any lawsuits, any lawsuits behind this this group?

SPEAKER_05: 54:34

Of course there are. I don't know. I I don't know, I don't know how many went public, but there's tons of lawsuits.

SPEAKER_03: 54:41

I I'm sure of that. Absolutely, plenty, plenty of lawsuits. Again, you can pull up the Masterson case, the actor Masterson. I can see what he's facing right now. He's facing those charges. So, yeah, there's plenty of lawsuits, and even the ones that that go away, they pay a big hefty sum to try to keep the damage control. But yeah, lots of lawsuits.

SPEAKER_04: 55:04

Now, well, what is this? Uh uh, you know, I'm like Googling this um uh group and uh it's uh talking about like surveillance using intimidation.

SPEAKER_05: 55:15

Scientology, they'll do that to you, they'll they'll they'll do that to you. They'll try to if you're critique. If you're if you're somebody who's critiqued them and they get a drop on you, and they and they do the they do their little history and they little studies and find out that you just just somebody on your own, you know what I mean? Just you know what I mean? They're gonna come for you. If you got a little crew with you, it might be a little more difficult, but they will they will hunt you down, they'll start intimidating you, they'll you know your money may come up messed up, things may be coming out messing out your mailbox, any any a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03: 55:42

I've been in my trash cans before. They've they've been they try to get your license plates and all that, they've done all that stuff. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 55:48

I'm sure it's been through it, definitely. I know he's been doing it.

SPEAKER_04: 55:52

And nobody put the beats on them though, bro. I ain't worried about nothing. Let me catch you in my in my trash.

SPEAKER_05: 56:02

You won't catch bro, you won't catch them in your trash. You won't catch them in your trash, you won't, but they'll be in your trash, they'll go in your trash, but you won't catch them. They yo, they good with their little surveillance shit. They go with that, you know. You know what I mean? They'll come sit in front of your house for hours without you, you know what I mean, just so they can go and pick through your garbage for sure.

SPEAKER_04: 56:24

Wow, wow, nobody okay, nobody catches that. All right, let me see something. Um, yeah. Oh, so uh, how does the church respond to journalists or investigators who ask uncomfortable questions?

SPEAKER_03: 56:44

Sheikh Denim L, can you explain how the church of Scientology became tax-free?

SPEAKER_05: 56:53

Oh man, damn. How did they become tax-free? Um, I remember I gotta think back a little bit. That's all right. I can explain it. You can just bear the channel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, drop the bottom because I I I'm thinking back.

SPEAKER_03: 57:05

Um the church of Scientology have been they were trying to get tax-free to be recognized as a church, right? Churches are tax-free, right? They couldn't get the approval. So if you remember in CNN, they used to have this female reporter named Greta Van Sestrich.

SPEAKER_05: 57:22

Ah, yes, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03: 57:25

The Church of Scientology, you gotta give them credit for this. They broke into the IRS. What I know, I know, I know this cut. This is really, really real. They broke into the IRS building and got files IRS agents, got the information on the IRS agents, and started blackmailing the IRS. I know who you're sleeping with, I know this side chick, I know this little boy you've been touching. They went through all the IRS files, bullied them into getting approval for the taxes. Now, if you're bold enough to be able to break into government buildings and get their files and blackmail them, you are committed. You are committed. I totally forgot about that. I totally forgot about that. Absolutely, yeah. Broke into the government buildings and blackmailed the IRS agents.

SPEAKER_05: 58:33

Totally forgot about that one.

SPEAKER_04: 58:35

So, what happens after a person's leaving sound Scientology? You saw you figure all this stuff is is crap, so now I'm leaving. How does that work?

SPEAKER_05: 58:45

It depends on it depends on where you with the states you're in. It depends on if you are a wealthy person, it depends on if you got a little bit of money. Because if you if you if you if you ain't got money and you owe, you're not leaving, they'll sue you. They will fuck with you. Pardon my language, excuse me. They will bother you.

SPEAKER_03: 59:06

They will bother you in order to get money because again, it's a pay as you go religion. You're not gonna get this information and go leave somewhere else. And if you got enough money, they'll come and sue you. You owe us$300,000 or whatever. Yo, they get your scientists, they're gangsters, b. This is a signing documents saying that you're gonna pay them back. Or this is an agreement.

SPEAKER_05: 59:35

Wow, wow. Why you think about you think about um going going to Scientology route, brother Brown?

SPEAKER_04: 59:41

Come on, bro. Come on, bro. You know, I I've been around it, meaning like I saw them in the hood like a few times when I was living in the city and all that, but uh, I was just I mean, I would suggest for your own understanding.

SPEAKER_05: 1:00:00

Understanding because you know a man knows not by being told a man is exactly what he knows. I would suggest for your own understanding, go to one of those places and go in. I did.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:10

I went in and okay and I messed around with that thing or whatever. Um, but that was that was as far as I'm gonna go with that. It's just not my vibe, period. It's just not those not the type of the no disrespect to anybody, but the type of people that are in those buildings and a part of that, I couldn't even, they're not my type of people. Don't they look like robots?

SPEAKER_05: 1:00:35

They look like robots and they right ask yourself why they look why why they move like that and and and and operate that way. You understand what I'm saying? Because they're under a control. I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if he if they use some type of some type of um drug like to further keep them in a you know some type of you know psychological pill or some shit, you know, trolazine or something.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:03

It's in the middle. Just look at the environment. You're in New York City, and the buildings will basically be empty. You would think that if it was really something legitimate, it'd be an overabundance of people, a bumper crop of people that go through New York City, the place should be completely packed, right?

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:21

Right. They opened up a spot right next to National Black Theater when the National Black Theater was there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:26

They did right in Harlem. They did.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:28

Yeah, but I don't know if they still if they still there though.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:31

They moved to a building that was further down the street. But I remember when they opened that right next to the National Black Theater, exactly. But then they moved further down the street, still in Harlem, but now they have a freestanding building um down the down the street.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:45

Oh oh oh wow. So they opened up a bigger place. They did, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:49

Right on 125 going down.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:52

Yeah, that's total disrespect. Interesting, interesting. So how hard is it emotionally, financially, and mentally to walk away? I mean, I mean, you guys explained enough with that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:05

Yeah, and it depends how you leave, right? If there's some people who who escape, there's some people who literally get in trunks of their car and drive, you know, and escape. There's other people who walk away nice and clear, don't they don't bother with you? There's other people who you're running your mouth too much and you still owe us money. We coming to get that Debo style.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:25

Straight up. All right. Last question: what support systems exist for ex-scientology, Scientologists who feel traumatized or isolated? Is any support out there for them?

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:39

Ishno knows if they're if they exist, I know Ishmael knows.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:43

Yeah, there's there's certain groups and organizations that just deal with Scientologists who are coming out because there's gonna be a transition. There's a brainwashing that you have to be reconditioned from. Right. There might be some money that you may need to land back on your feet. Maybe you have to get an apartment for a month or two to get back on your feet, get back re-acclimated to society. So they have organizations you can, you know, you can um reach out to organizations like um established by Leah Remini, that's established by um Aaron Smith Levin. Um, there's people who put those those in place. Now, also you get access to literature. Sheikh Denham L is being very humble, but if you look at his book, The Red Pill Diaries, it's giving you the ability to identify cults and identifying the programming and deprogramming what's going on in your head, the things that are affecting you. So he was he took his skill and put it in motion so that he can help people, and we should always remember that.

SPEAKER_05: 1:03:52

So the red pill that's a book not too many people read, too.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:55

The red pill diary, yeah. Okay, that's this is all on Amazon. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:03

Just put my name in it. When you type in the Red Pill Diary, just put my name under it because I think there's some other Red Pill diaries as well.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:10

Yeah, brother, you too humble, man.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:11

You gotta plug your plug your stuff, man. I just I'm from that era, man. I don't know this social media stuff well. I just come and talk, and you know, advertising, marketing, I don't I don't know nothing about that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:23

See, that's on me. I don't mind big upping my brother.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:27

He's a good teacher. He's a good teacher. I appreciate it, man. Yeah, I appreciate you, guys. Indeed. You know, we've always we've always done that to each other.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:34

Okay, the handbook of Moore's Degrees and Mysteries.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:38

That's another one. Yeah, that's another one.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:40

Okay, you're on there.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:44

Just a couple of them. That's one, that's one, but that ain't the one he's talking about, but that's one. The one he's talking about is called the Red Pill Diary, and then there's Jesus was a Moslem, and then there's a couple other ones.

unknown: 1:04:58

All right.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:59

So before we the before we go, do you brothers want to uh leave some last words and also uh plug whatever you got going on as far as books and programs, etc. Social media is everything.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:15

Well, I say I'm honored, man. Thank you for allowing me to be here with you again, brother. It's good to see you. Good to see you. Always a pleasure to be on your podcast, man. Um I don't have much to plug. Um, I just like he's I mean, he I wrote some books. Uh you can find me on Facebook. You can find me as L Sheik on Facebook, Sheik L. You can find me on Instagram as LH 007. You can find me on lulu.com as Billy Dinamel, author Billy Dinamel. Also, one of my my first original book was written under the pseudonym of Professor I South. It was written in South Africa in 2009. It's called Messages from the Diaspora. So, you know, but every other book I've written is written under the name of Denimel. So if you can look up the books and, you know, please feel free to read them and get them. Thank you, brother. And brother Ish is always, you know, that's my brother, it's always a pleasure to see the brother, man. You know, I love that brother, man. We came up, we still coming out, we still together. And it's been damn near, what, over almost 40 years now, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, about 40 years. And we still here, man. You know what I'm saying? And we still doing what we do. This is what we've all this is all we've ever done. This is what we know. You know what I'm saying? Even from chunk from children, we was all we were always engulfed around something cultural. It was just a part of our it was a part of our the way we was raised. We just happened to be raised around a lot of consciousness, man.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:40

I would say, I would say, I would say lucky if we want to use that word for sure. Because uh, brother Ish, man, you got some history with Dr. Khalid and all that. I want to get into that one of these days and really build some history, man. Yeah, he got, yeah. So I want to really build on that, and I like that hoodie. That's polo.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:59

Oh, yeah, yeah. You see the little camouflage polos all over it. That's fire. That's fire.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:04

That's that's why that's New York go way back. Yeah, so Ish, do you want to plug books or anything you got going on?

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:16

Programs, yeah, absolutely. Um, please feel free to join um Scientology Invasion of the Black Community on Facebook. There's thousands of members that are on there. Um, I want to shout out um brother Kevin Ali and uh the Nation of Islam factions that are holding the line, doing a wonderful job, full support. Um, Minister Eric. Um, just always good to see the brothers and the sisters, you know, doing their thing. Um, I also have FirstTribeNation.com. There's a lot of current events and things from an indigenous perspective. Um, please feel free to again join the forum. And I want to thank you again, Brother Ron. You always avail yourself to the platform to allow us to have a voice in different various topics. You never are ever disrespectful. Even the brothers and the sisters that come in from all the factions of the nation of Islam, always professional and fair. So thank you for being able to deal with a lot of different topics. There's nothing wrong for all of us being able to come to quote unquote the watering hole so that we can all get knowledge and information. That's right. It's not biased, it's not malicious, it's all about the information. I'm an indication of your beautiful mind and your character as a man, and I salute you for that. But no, thank you for having us on here, and we certainly do, you know, um, you know, we honor that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:46

Thank you, sir. On that note, thank you, brothers, for coming out this evening. I really appreciate it. Thank you. The for the viewers and the people who are sticking with this uh platform, I really appreciate you. This is not easy to do, just just to let you know, but I'm here, I'm I'm I'm working, I'm working, y'all. And uh indeed, and I'm not I'm not begging, but I have to beg. I don't like to beg, but I got this is the this is the nature of the business, right? So don't forget to like, comment, share, subscribe, all that good stuff. I'm gonna throw the commercial up and we are out of here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:31

This is more than a podcast, it's a content platform rooted in truth and culture from the 5% nation, the nation of Islam, our forest movement, and based in group. Our mission is to reclaim our narrative and uplift the African diaspora with real stories and real conversations. Support us through SuperChat during live shows, donations on FlashCat, GoFundMe, Patreon, or Bug Sprout. And by reference our official merch, available on our website and right here on YouTube's merch show. Every dollar, every super chat, every hoodie builds the movement. This is NYP Talk Show.